I paused the vid at around 30 minutes in b/c I once heard a simple summary that I often use: If a girl think she's gay when she 14 or 15, & later realizes she's not, no harm done. But if a girl thinks she's trans & starts to medically transition & then realizes it was a mistake, there are often lifelong consequences! This is the huge difference that must be pointed out again & again to people. Just thinking about that can cause a person to question the affirmation-only model & the medicalization of minors. All we need to break someone out of what has become a cult is to get them to consider that one question that will start them questioning further. That's the difference between critical thinking & believing an ideology.
As a gay, 40-year-old man, I find it frustrating that the new breed of trans-identified kids is compared by many people with being gay. Social media didn't exist, I didn't know one gay soul, and I wasn't part of any alt/nonconformist crowd. I came to understand I was attracted to the same sex on my own in my twenties. Now kids on TikTok are declaring their transness en masse together. And people want to celebrate it and act like it's the same sort of civil rights issue of their authenticity. It's not the same. At all.
There is a new term being touted about these TikTokers. “TransTrenders”. That gives the game away. But that’s very different from the gay children who are having their gay sexual orientation “transed away”. There is a report that this practice was rampant at the Tavistock Clinic in the UK. And of course, Irish children were sent there for “treatment” too.
@@gethelp6271 The movement he's villifying is the exact same movement and reasoning that granted him rights. He's choosing to remain ignorant because he's safe. A 'climb the ladder and pull it up after you' position.
I am glad you discussed the difficulty teenagers have coming to terms with their sexuality. I am 100% homo (ie I have never been romantically and sexually interested in women), but due to other issues (I am likely on the autism spectrum), I had tremendous difficulty coming to terms with my sexuality. If I was a young teenager today I would probably label myself non-binary (especially if I had the misfortune of seeing gay porn at a young age). I basically had very little interest in sex until my twenties (likely a combination of mild body dismorphia and discomfort of being touched). I am not surprised that a significant number of trans identified individuals are on the autism spectrum. One of the common symptoms of ASD is feeling alienation from one’s peer’s. Combine that with same-sex attraction, it is understandable that people are attracted to the trans community that seems more accepting of quirkiness. Unfortunately it seems to be leading people to use medical treatments that will in the long run make things worse.
I'm neither gay, OR trans, so no dog in EITHER fight. But I'm old enough to have been an adult thru both issues. I supported gay rights/marriage, right from the start. Because why WOULDN'T you support two consenting adults, sleeping with who they choose? Where.is the downside to ANYONE, except those who feel entitled to impose their beliefs onto everyone else? But trans is very different; I did INITIALLY support """trans rights'''''", basically just out of inertia, because I unthinkingly just accepted the narrative that so-called "trans rights''' were (somehow?!?) an extension of gay rights, and "the next civil rights struggle"... ...but very quickly, I saw that these are fundamentally different issues. >Gay rights never demanded the adoption of evidence-free ideological concepts like sex-independent "gender", a mystical, 100% undetectable thing that we are ALL demanded to believe in, and to universally prioritise ABOVE real-world, evidence-based sex... >Gay rights never required DESTROYING the rights of others, or prioritising the rights of gay people ABOVE the rights of anyone else... But men who self-ID as "trans women" commit sex crimes at THE EXACT SAME rate as any man (approx 50x the rate that actual women commit sex crimes)... So letting a man who self-ID's as a "trans women" into a women's bathroom, means SACRIFICING the rights, safety and privacy of ALL the dozens/hundreds of women who use that bathroom, in the name of ONE SINGLE stunning, brave (man who self-ID's as a...) "trans woman"... -The only real, factual claim that gay rights ever made, was that some adults are same-sex attracted... and IT DIDN'T EVEN MATTER if you accept or reject that belief; Even if (for whatever reason) you REJECT that claim, and say "Nope. Gay men are MERELY PRETENDING to be same-sex attracted, for whatever spooky, nefarious political/religious reason!!", you would STILL have no rational basis to stop these consenting adults doing as they please, in the privacy of their own life... But "gender" is VERY different; It demands that WE ALL MUST accept the 100% evidence-free claim that "trans women ARE women (in some mystical sense, of that word "woman", who's evidence-based definition got DESTROYED, in the name of this slogan...). This "compelled belief" is totally different to the "live and let live" attitude of the gay rights movement. >The mainstream gay rights movement VOCALLY REJECTED the idea that children can somehow give valid "consent"; The mainstream """trans rights""" movement demands that EVERYONE accept (or at least PRETEND to believe) that children's "consent" to life-changing body-alteration, is somehow meaningful and valid. > "Gender" ideology is IN DIRECT OPPOSITION to the rights of same-sex attracted gays and lesbians. "Gender" ideology says it's impermissible "hateful bigotry" to acknowledge the evidence-based sex of someone else; You must ONLY acknowledge their evidence-free "gender" self-ID... Which leads to men, self-IDing as "trans women", who DEMAND that lesbians MUST be open to sex with biological males, who declare themselves "women".... Because same-SEX attracted homoSEXuality is 100% impermissible, under "gender" ideology; Believers in "gender" ideology are trying to re-define "gay/lesbian" to mean "same-GENDER" attracted (with no concern for what gays and lesbians want, same as when they re-defined "womanhood", out from under the feet of women...) ie. "Gender" ideology demands that ALL same-SEX attracted, homoSEXual gays and lesbians must STOP being gay/lesbian, and become definitionally bi-SEX -ual; Open to relations with BOTH sexes... And any gay or lesbian who REMAINS exclusively same-SEX attracted, is deemed a "hateful transphobic bigot", virtually nahtzee, according to the evidence-free ideology of "gender"... Which means it's 100% logically impossible to support BOTH """trans rights""", AND the rights of exclusively same-sex attracted gays and lesbians... You can support so-called "trans right", OR "gay rights"... But you can't logically support BOTH... (because you can't support both [X] and [total absence of X], with [X] being "exclusive, same-SEX attraction")
@@Gdr5928 Wow. After reading all that you still thought it'd be fine to post your homophobic BS. Or did you just skim it and fill in the blanks with what you wanted to see?
_"Gay rights never demanded the adoption of evidence-free ideological concepts like sex-independent "gender""_ Correct, because 'gender' is a cisnormative concept. It is not proposed by queer people, it is proposed by straight people. Gender-queer people just ask for equal treatment under it. If it's fine for straight people do use gender, then it'll be fine for others to use it, too. _"Gay rights never required DESTROYING the rights of others"_ Trans-rights don't, either. _"letting a man who self-ID's as a "trans women" into a women's bathroom, means SACRIFICING the rights"_ You're correct that this is a logical flaw. However, your understanding of the people proposing this is inverted; this is a problem caused by the subjectivity and stupidity of 'gender'. Trans people don't ask for this; they ask for gender-neutrality, which solves all issues regarding the socialisation of people towards discomfort/danger/etc. because of their gender. This problem is straight people making stupid rules, getting burned, and looking for a scapegoat. _""gender" is VERY different; It demands that WE ALL MUST accept the 100% evidence-free claim that "trans women ARE women...""_ Again, correct, but you're inverting the blame for that. Cis people want to play these silly gender-games and expect their hypocritical ideas to be pandered to. The fact that queer people say 'okay, but us too, then' isn't a logical problem for queer people; your issue is with the axiom that cisgender people set. _"The mainstream """trans rights""" movement demands that EVERYONE accept (or at least PRETEND to believe) that children's "consent" to life-changing body-alteration"_ It... just doesn't? This only makes sense if you fall for the right-wing extremists' crap and think 'transitioning' means 'body-alteration', but it doesn't. _"Because same-SEX attracted homoSEXuality is 100% impermissible, under "gender" ideology; Believers in "gender" ideology are trying to re-define "gay/lesbian" to mean "same-GENDER" attracted"_ *_This... is your brain on Gender_* *smashes egg* _""Gender" ideology demands that ALL same-SEX attracted, homoSEXual gays and lesbians must STOP being gay/lesbian"_ Aside from 'gender ideology', the term, being a fascist dogwhistle; yeah, that's kinda true since gender-neutrality does mean losing definitions for 'gay' and 'lesbian', but that doesn't mean we stop acknowledging how society uses those concepts. Even if I don't recognise 'race' as a valid concept, I can still identify that racists don't like certain groups because of specific traits. _" it's 100% logically impossible to support BOTH """trans rights""", AND the rights of exclusively same-sex attracted gays and lesbians"_ Quite the opposite; gay-rights have trans-rights at their foundation. The whole reason people are, arbitrarily, discriminated against for their sex-preferences is _because_ these lines are drawn.
Where in hell are you getting all this nonsense and particularly the statistics? Transgender folks are in no way requiring anything of gays, lesbians and heterosexual people. Are you not a aware that being transgender is only gender identity and in no way sexuality? Trans people go out with people of their same sex or opposite sex depending on their sexuality and not due to some gender ideology. That's pure nonsense.
My thoughts exactly, but much better said than I could! Can’t believe more people are not seeming to be seeing how incompatible trans ideology is with the rights of everyone else, a totally false association.
24:10 for me I definitely believe homophobic thoughts were what amplified the gender dysphoria I had. My older sister came out as lesbian when I was in my early 20’s. When she came out my first thought was I thought I was going to be the lesbian of the family (even though I wasn’t sexually attractive to women yet). But my second thought was well, I can’t be a lesbian and we have two lesbians in the family. A very internalize homophobia thought. I’ve learned there are lots of family with two gay kids. I finally desisted after ten years of identifying with the trans community. I never medically transition and barely did any social transitioning
@@HellCatt0770it sure feels that way. I went from, wow this is exciting and liberating when I came out to wow this is insane and no one should want to medically transition. Just because we can do something, doesn’t mean that we should.
There is something fundamental about affirmation and accommodation being seen as primary things that need to happen in order to validate a trans person's identity and help them become who they "really are". It seems to me to be the opposite of what, I assume, is best practice in dealing with people with complex identity issues. It places the responsability for the trans person's mental health and happiness externally, on the family/school/society rather than encouraging them to find within themselves self-affirmation and a healthy, balanced disregard for the opinions of others about who they choose to be. When Sasha talked about the accommodations needed within a family in order to integrate a trans identifying child it struck me that these things appear, on the surface, to be small but changing "she" to "he", relearning a name, self policing one's language to avoid small slights, having to suspend disbelief to help a child pretend they are the opposite sex (forever!) are all enormous things to consistently achieve. It seems that if one makes a mistake, and triggers the child's gender dysphoria, making them question who they really are, it is made to seem like a transphobic slight against the person has been committed. The trans person is asking the whole family to change (and the trans movement in general, the world to change) to validate their internal idea of who they "really" are and what the world should be, to accept the fundamental untruth that a person of one sex can literally become the opposite sex. As a person that grew up in a home with a controlling narcissist at the head, This externalization of blame ("I would be happy if only you changed the way you are") is strikingly similar to the way narcissists think, and what a dominant narcissist asks a family to do in order to prop up the grandiose version of who they think they are inside. They need to be constantly affirmed, lest they collapse into self pity. They need to never be challenged on their feelings and behaviours lest they briefly glimpse reality and react with either physical or emotional violence. My father was extreme, but these "externalizing" traits are incredibly common in the population as a whole. Many people seem to have missed an essential life lesson in childhood about what they can and can't control in order to find contentment.
I should clarify. I think it is reasonable for a child to have these feelings about the world, to be confused about internal/external control, but to validate a confused child's opinion that the family/world needs to change in order for the child to be happy, is completely unworkable and a recipe for inevitable misery and failure.
Jazz Jennings has publicly stated on her “I Am Jazz” show that “ I just want to feel like myself but I never feel like myself” so whether at some stage in the future, Jazz comes to a different conclusion to the one her parents, the show and Jazz have been promulgating is yet to be seen. But so far Jazz Jennings problems have not been solved by medically transitioning from male to female and now, the “storyline” that is being pushed is that Jazz is Asexual rather than that her sexuality has been stunted or indeed abolished by the medical process she has been put through. So perhaps parents considering “transitioning” their children should take a close look at the adult Jazz and think carefully about consequences. A mature adult in their late twenties or early thirties, choosing to take this path is a very different matter from a parent putting a child on the path of puberty blockers that most don’t get off. See my comment below about the adolescent brain.
I am so sorry but I see the length of your message and I just can't read it… if you can keep it shorter and more succinct tons of people would love to read what you have to say.
If it takes one sentence responses to educate people, then they are going to miss a lot of nuance. I suggest starting with shorter comments and sticking with reading longer and longer ones until you are able to ingest a depth of information yourself. You can do it!! Xxo
As a young teenager, I was frightened of men and of the sexual desire my body aroused in men. I was also disinterested in fulfilling the “gender role” that my parents (of the Greatest Generation) expected of me, and I strongly resisted that pressure to conform. (I was in my 40s and a mother twice over before I willingly chose to wear a pink garment, which I grant is ridiculous.). I did strength-dominant sports, chose a “masculine” profession and eventually joined the military. But it never occurred to me that I might not be a woman. We were interested in breaking down barriers, not in changing our bodies into something they were not.
I’m a lefty Brit who moved 3 years ago to Boston MA with my wife and little girl. The environment terrified me. We attended toddler birthday parties that had pride+ flags INSTEAD of decorations and I honestly descended into a weird condition. For a while, my wife worried that I was going down a right-wing rabbit hole, but we have ended up in full agreement and stronger together than ever. I didn’t change, she didn’t change. We just got our heads around how and why the madness must not get into our lives. I must attribute a good deal of this to you ladies. It’s all we wanted to have a balanced, open-minded, loving and healthy way to say “cutting bits off kids because they reckon it’s right doesn’t sound correct”. We are there now, and I thank you both so much.
The UK, like Canada, as far as Institutions is concerned, has rapidly adopted the Gender Ideology now sweeping much of the West, which, less we forget accounts for less than 10% of the global population. Thankfully, and as a parent of a 16 year old daughter, I reside in Hong Kong, which, thus far has been immune to Gender Ideology despite many being educated in the West. Strangely, as far as same sex relationships goes both Hong Kong and Shanghai were havens under colonialism and this is still true today in Hong Kong - its also far less sexualised here than the UK, which may also help.
@@christopherrogers9243 odd coincidence. We were in HK before UK. 8 years. Culture shock supreme. From “uncle” to “white supremacist fascist transphobe” in one simple relocation. 😉
Needing to "prove" that one is trans extends to women who identify as non-binary as well, even if they have NO body dysmorphia. They view mastectomy as a rite of initiation to prove that they really aren't "cisgender" women.
It's a tribe. The youth have a very strong need for a tribe, belonging to a tribe, for security when distancing from the parents and also as a way show the world and to find out themselves who they are. Cutting off body parts is a grim initial rite.
When I was a girl, I wanted to be a boy. I had short hair and wore "boys' clothes" to school. It wasn't till I started getting bullied by a few boys that I tried to prove I was a girl by wearing a dress to 3rd grade one day. Then I started growing my hair out as a better indicator of a girl because I really hated dresses (I only wore those to church, because in my house it was disrespectful to go to church in pants as a girl). My mother is a second wave conservative feminist. She would tell me as a child, when I complained about being a girl, that there is no wrong way to be a girl and that there wasn't anything the boys did that I couldn't do as well. It helped. During my teen years, I started having sexual dreams where I was a man on dates with women. I never had dreams where I was a woman on dates with men or other women. I had these recurring dreams for 3 or 4 years. During these years, I was in therapy and under psychiatry care for my bi-polar 1 with phycosis that was found when I was 16. I didn't want to discuss my sex life, dating life, or my odd sex dreams with my therapist. But after 3 years of therapy, I did open up a little, which prompted a question. Whould it becthe end of the world if I wasn't straight? I don't know why, but the question was like permission to look at my self, and my crushes, and my actual feelings. I grew up in a church that was fairly accepting of LGBT people. There were gay and lesbian members in my church. But the church still viewed the act of homosexuality as a sin even as we opened our arms for the LGBT community. It is part of loving the person and hating the sin that is central to our church. It didn't take me long to realize that I was bisexual. My dreams stopped and my gender confusion stopped when I realized my sexuality. I tried to join my college's GLAAD club, but they were very weary of bisexuals. They were the ones who demanded that I demonstrate that I belonged. I didn't stay in such a hostile environment. I tried coming out to my parents, and they gave me a book on how to pray away the gay. I decided then to accossicate with those who believed me and have minimal contact with e everyone else.
I find that the current problem is the fact transgender people have existed thats not the problem. The issue is transgender people have always been a minority. Today its explodes. I am trans and gender non confirming, but I reject this medical model which fails to address the issues deeper than gender. I want a world when transgender people can thrive, but not be used as ponds for the culture war. Regular transgender people don't want to be apart of movement they just want to live their lives in peace as they believe they are. The noise has created a hostile environment it's just insane. Gender ideology doesn't represent every transgender person
Transgender people haven’t always existed in the current medicalised way. Not only because medical options are relatively. In fact there are only a minuscule amount of people in history who claimed to be the opposite sex. Usually they were only trying to get something from it and didn’t literally believe they were the opposite sex. Mostly it was what we called “cross-dressing” men, Wii were typically men who were batchelors or men in environments without any women, who found a creative way of replacing women - as in, they were temporary identities to get their sexual needs met. There were also women who “lived as men”, which meant having a job or fight in a war and having to go into a disguise to get one. That’s not the same as being trans. Reading their own writing about the experience clarifies that they didn’t actually identify as men, but had to do it because they were either lesbians, single mothers, getting revenge, or forced to by their families. Their experiences have more in common with waves of feminism and the progress of women than trans men’s experiences.
I'm two years down the track of having a daughter who thinks she's born in the wrong body. At the beginning the only information I could find was provided by Mermaid's and the NHS. I had a GP, a teacher, a therapists, ALL telling me that I should affirm my 12yr olds desire to change her identity. We never affirmed her wishes and took the watchful waiting approach. Its been a very difficult time in our family. However 2 years on she is starting to move away away from her boy identity. She is so much happier in her body, says she doesn't have "gender dysphoria" anymore. She is nearly 15 now. She's amazing. I had so many people tell me its just like being gay in 80's and how that was not accepted and how I should just "be kind" and accept this new identity. I now know I was right, I am filled with horror that my daughter could potentially have been put on puberty blockers, on track to cross sex hormones had I "accepted/affirmed" her wishes. Thank you for everything you do, and thanks for this video on this topic. I SO wish I had found you 2 years ago. Would have saved me a lot of heartache. Forever grateful for your wise words in this truly crazy world.
@@widerlenspodmy daughter has now completely moved away from her trans identity, after 2 years of thinking she was a boy. She has in the last month thanked me for not affirming her, and is a bit embarrassed about it all now. She said she was very down and confused at the time.
2 points. 1. Nobody is truly transgender, and people who claimed transition worked for them are not the most stable or reliable demographic. The increasing reports of people with dementia who transitioned and have now FORGOTTEN that it ever happened, and are consequently in deep, irredeemable distress should be a warning. 2. We have no way of predicting the outcome of transition, but since we know it is NOT the right treatment for 80+% of youth who claim to be gender dysphoria, the balance of evidence is strongly against transitioning any of this cohort.
That must be a small cohort, is anyone researching this? I feel like there will be a much larger sample in a few decades, which is upsetting. I'm also wondering whether there's a link between cross sex hormones and dementia, I think there can be a reduction in dementia occurrence in women using HRT... I don't have a source though.
@@Capybarrrraaaa 1 So do you think there is such thing as true trans? 2 Why on earth wouldn't we want to know the outcome of irreversible changes specifically when we know most kids with gender dysphoria grow out of it?
@@robertmarshall2502 1. There isn't such thing as 'true trans', the concept only exists when you presuppose cisnormativism; the same thing that trans-rights movements seek to dissolve. 2. They didn't say 'irreversible changes', they said "transition". And the reason why we 'don't need to know' is because cisnormative people _already do this._ The only thing trans-activists are saying is 'okay, then trans identities can do that, too'. "growing out of gender dysphoria" is such a nebulous and unserious idea. Everyone experiences GD in some regard. You either ignore it and take the hit, or you make the changes to align with it.
@@Capybarrrraaaa OK mate, I get it. You're incredibly ideologically captured to the point of making insanely nonsensical statements. It's very clear you know very little about this subject and haven't read about it. True trans has nothing to do with "cisnormativism" which isn't a thing. True trans is a concept within trans. "Trans rights movements" don't actually even know what rights they're fighting for except dismantling those of women. The next paragraph is completely nonsensical. Non-trans ppl don't already take opposite sex hormones or have genitalia removed. Trans activists are definitely not saying that. What a ludicrously laughable idea. We know the majority of kids grow out of gender dysphoria. It's been shown in over 10 studies. Therapy helps too. The kind trans activists want to ban (ie exploratory and holistic). I understand you're entirely ignorant of the fact most kids with gender dysphoria traditionally grow up as gay men but there's really no excuse for that. No everyone doesn't experience gender dysphoria in some regard. You really have deepthroated some bs. That's like saying everyone suffers autism or anorexia. Mate you embarrassed yourself.
Thank you so very much for addressing this topic! In many instances over the last view years, i got the impression that non-negligible parts of the transgender and queer movement are inherently anti-gay, saying this from my perspective as a gay man. Calling us deeply homophobic names if we don't share their opinions, asserting gay men would be priviliged - despite gay and bi men are by far most subjected to violence on the streets of all LGBT groups, as can be seen in police statistics. Ultimately, the most anti-gay thing they do - to my opinion - is trying to erase us. Gay and lesbian people who never called themselves "queer" are now being labeled this way and are being bullied if they object (see David Seradis). A non-binary swiss author calls gay identity "proto-fascist" in a book that has won major book prizes. I think this "queer" label will go on to make gay, lesbian and bi people more and more invisible, eventually replacing those terms altogether. In the end, there cannot be made an easy linguistic distinction any longer between homo/bisexuality and the gender identities. But this might be what the queer and transgender movement want. It is, however, not what previous generations of gay, lesbian and bisexual people fought for and what is still in the best interest of many of our people today.
Experiencing internalized homophobia, is exacerbated by online and real world spaces that purport to cater to gay and lesbian ppl who focus primarily on promiscuous or unusual sexual practices, hook up culture, drug use and partying which may not be what a gay or lesbian person is interested in.
56:00 the bit about being taken seriously. Rites of passage would have once involved an air of trepidation for the teenager that the extended community would have shared in and been aware of, dare I use the word "affirmed"! As a child in the 1960s birthday cards and letters addressed to me would have used the pronoun "Master". My sisters would have been addressed with the pronoun "Miss". I believe these were arffirming our status, which, unfortunately certain branches of feminism chose to define as patronising. The first neo-pronoun was Ms. and the first social movement to divorce gender from sex was feminism. Feminism has been tainted with an anti natal stance, motherhood was to be avoided, men's attributes and achievements were to be covetted. This "gender war" has dismantled the boundary between adult Mr/Mrs and child-juvenile Mstr/Miss. The contraceptive pill was framed as liberation for women, whereas it often (if not predominantly) played into men's desires for access to women without paying due respect to their vulnerability as child bearers, not to mention them being far more prone to predation due to the contrast in size and strength between men and women. I've been listening to Mary Harrington, in case you hadn't guessed!
As a parent I find it saddening that children are often under pressure to declare their sexuality and gender identity before they’re even close to developing sexually. My daughter was asked at school, along with the whole class to place herself on the spectrum of gender identity and declare her sexual orientation at 11 years old! She was so confused, it took months to work through it.
People come to an understanding of their sexual orientation naturally over time. Girls often have very intense crushes on other girls during adolescence. It's not an indicator of sexual orientation. I'm a gold star lesbian (never had sex with a man) & I had crushes on boys, too, even in college. I just had a lot MORE crushes on girls through the years. Anyway, I knew I was gay before I even knew the word for it! Kids should not be taught this stuff in school. Let kids know they are loved & teach them how to have HEALTHY, happy, & enduring relationships, regardless of their sex.
@@DonnaBrooks Spot on! I told her a good relationship is what’s important it really doesn’t matter if you end up with boys or girls or nobody at all as long as you’re good for each other.
For me as a lesbian who is "gender non conforming" i see gay rights/liberation movement above all as a mechanism to encourage people to learn to accept themselves for who they are and the role they have witihin society and saying to that person you dont have to change who you are. To really help drive out those negative thoughts that gay people often have about themselves and that had seemed to be working gay people were more accepted at least within the west.... And gender affirming care is about encouraging and being postitive about negative feelings that a gender non conforming person or a person going through a major live change eg puberty will naturally have about their body or place in society and therfore affirming that that person is somehow "wrong" and there is something that they can do to change themselves and then everything will be wonderful... simplistically..... Being positive and encouraging TO CHANGE THE NEGATIVE THOUGHTS Being positive and encouraging OF THE NEGATIVE THOUGHTS I think that a lot of well intentioned good hearted people get swept along by trans ideology because it uses this positive language which is very hard to argue against even with yourself because you want to do the right thing the kind thing I think it's very clever movement that has subverted a lot of good people and organisations... Sasha and Stella spot on usual
"Nature is bigger than me" reminds me of someone saying "nature has a higher tolerance of loss than we do" when I was dealing with getting over a medicalised birth. It just reminded me that I didn't have control. That's two-pronged because the medicalising wasn't necessarily working with nature in my case, but realising I HAVE to accept that birth is an event I couldn't captain like a ship, but had to ride like a wave wherever it took me, helped me with acceptance of what happened. I also think that young people are expected to make so many choices at such a stupid time (choosing GCSEs age 13 based on a projected career path is laughable!) that giving this one over to nature and accepting that we shouldn't be trying to control the uncontrollable is very freeing. Working with it is so much more healthy than fighting it.
yup, I'm a 70 year old woman. Im one of those would have been 'transsed' as a kid if I were a child today. I remember praying every night for a year, at 9, to wake up a boy. turns out I was just a lesbian!
Huge Congrats on the launch of your book in the UK! You are the voice of reason (and compassion) that parents need to understand to enable them to navigate this totally confusing and often, devastating experience. Your book will occupy a prominent place on my bookcase (once I can get it in Canada). From this Canadian psychotherapist to you both- cheers! 🎉
At the end you are really on to the dynamic i see. For me as a gay kid it was going evangelical- it offered intimacy without having to prove heterosexuality in light of the purity culture and it gave me a chance to make a difference. I had come out to my parents and there had been total acceptance but for years nothing but books and occasional expressions of parental affirmation in a way it was my dare to mom and dad to do something to help me and to take the lead in making it possible for me to find others like myself.
Is there any research on whether the rate of suicide has reduced statistically to correlate to the statistics of how many children/youth transition? I keep hearing the argument about suicide and don't know where that information originated.
The only statistics we have show that suicide among young people has risen in the past decade, which seems to contradict the narrative that "gender affirmation" prevents suicide. We have a whole episode on suicide where we break down some of the rhetoric being passed around right now. It's Episode 34, if you'd like to check it out.
It’s understandable that people get confused about all of this. An acquaintance told me that her son was gay. A man attracted to a man. Fine. Then about a year later, her child said they were a trans-woman (no bottom surgery), but attracted to men.
i really appreciated and enjoyed this conversation, and the two of you generally. i've heard many LG say that if they were young today they'd be caught up in the trans mania, but i've also heard gay destransitioners dismiss this notion. i don't think any of us are saying we would've gone the whole way, but it would have appealled to us to some extent. even when society seems to accept you, it's still easy to feel unaccpetable. Helen Joyce is right, every society/culture has its own way of dealing with the gays. i think back through history the multitude of ways the LGB was dealt with: stoning/murder, lobotomies, aversion experiments, exorcisms/religious indoctrination, psychotherapy conversion efforts, and sometimes acceptance. when we finally got equality here in Canada in 2005 i was happy, but the dark side of me thought that this would also an excellent way to identify the LGB in case TPTB wanted to _do something_ about us. no, the reality is not that dark, this isn't Iran, yet. but the fact is, here we're even more efficient than Iran, Canada is getting many of the LGB long before adulthood. we've banned T conversion therapy by conflating it with G conversion therapy and pointing to a 30+ year-old old study on G conversion therapy (2.5% of gay men experienced it), that would no longer even be relevant. and, most importantly, nobody cares that transing kids _is_ the gay conversion therapy of today. Today is my birthday and i was looking for something significant to be grateful for--i am _so_ grateful that i'm 60 and not 20, kids today are in tough.
I've had a long back and forth with myself about how trans was/could be the new gay. I think both categories were definitely lumped together in the past. Now, not so much. That's not the problem to me. I think we just need to stop deferring our opinions to more ideologically novel things and instead focus on what we do have and using that to our advantage.
Here’s a thought, for what it is worth. Women look much more like the girls they were than men look like the boys they were. Testosterone is such a powerful drug/hormone that it will permanently masculinize a person’s voice & appearance. This is the reason people (recklessly, in my opinion), push early medicalization for “gender transition” for MtF “trans kids,” because if a human has gone through male puberty, they will very likely never be able to “pass” as a female. However, because testosterone is so powerful, there is (or should be) NO RUSH to medically transition FtM people. Heck, even as a middle aged woman, if I started getting testosterone injections now, my body (& very likely my voice) would masculinize and I could “pass” as a male person.
Stereotypes are strangely worse today than a hundred years ago. Yes, women wore dresses, but mothers could be quite masculine, strong, in charge, and fathers could be gentle and nurturing, (weve seen this in our own family) but they were not confused about their sexuality.
It's important not to mis-state the facts. At first it was thirty percent of gender confused teens would, if left to develope naturally, would grow into gay adults. But from that "30%" so many speakers are now saying "most" (will grow up to be same sex attracted adults.) When that is not accurate. Thirty percent is not "most."
I think it would be interesting to dedicate an episode on Iran, where homosexuality is prohibited and punished but is allowed to transition (MtoF). Makes me reflect.
Would trans people's partners keep loving them if they stop taking exogenous hormones? If the answer is no, then I don't think these partners love them. I don't know about female HSTS, but male HSTS seek more than sex with straight-identified men and they rarely find longterm relations. Not only their lovers prefer to marry real women, but also male HSTS don't connect with "hetero" husbands as they would connect with completely gay husbands. I imagine it is the same with female HSTS in relation to straight-identified women.
Straight women aren't going out with women pretending to be men. Women pretending to be men are going out with lesbians and straight men. Because they're women, and when it comes to sexual attraction its biological sex that matters not delusional beliefs about gender.
@@lilith3953 Where did I say that straight women date other women? I talked about the straight-identified women that date female HSTS. These women are obviously bi or lesbian.
Trans people don’t go after straight people more often, that’s simply a lie. Majority of trans people are with bi people or gay people or even other trans people. I started dating my bf when I identified as a boy, and now I’m trans. Trans people can and do have happy and fulfilling relationships.
It would help avoid confusion if you explained what HSTS means & not assume everyone knows. Just put the words the initials stand for in parenthesis the first time you use the letters. @@miketaylor1349
In Jordan Peterson's counseling session with Chloe Cole, she was very visibly moved when he told her that the feelings she had in her teen years were normal and experienced by other teens. She said "nobody had told me that."
I think YES. Gay people are coming up as TRANS now. There has always been gays who prefer to identify with the oposite sex, now we have a name for that category and before admitting that they are gay, they start with this "new identity" BS. Your personal experience (Stella) wasn't trans. You hated your body, so did I! I couldn't tolerate to wear sleeveless shirts ''cause I hated my shoulders, but also my hips, my tights and my nose. I dare to ask if there's any teenager from either gender who hasn't struggled with his/her self image to certain extend.
Sasha I’m so glad you’re talking about this, I’ll be going into detail about the lesbian experience of struggling to find their adult sexual orientation and sometimes get derailed by gender ideology, in my GETA presentation on 14 October
I saw a lovely woman from Netherlands(I think) make some pottery as an Earth friendly way to cool a room. She said it was a hot day and when I looked up the temperature conversion it was 68 F. 🤪
An additional concern is that by emphasizing whether a competing athlete went through a natural puberty or not, and measuring hormone levels can actually push youth into blockers before puberty.
Stella is a wise and thoughtful person; she's also a very warm person who laughs a lot. You're basically saying "change your personality or stop making the show". Given that there are other sources of information available, a reasonable and more practical solution for you might be to just not watch it.
I paused the vid at around 30 minutes in b/c I once heard a simple summary that I often use: If a girl think she's gay when she 14 or 15, & later realizes she's not, no harm done. But if a girl thinks she's trans & starts to medically transition & then realizes it was a mistake, there are often lifelong consequences! This is the huge difference that must be pointed out again & again to people. Just thinking about that can cause a person to question the affirmation-only model & the medicalization of minors. All we need to break someone out of what has become a cult is to get them to consider that one question that will start them questioning further. That's the difference between critical thinking & believing an ideology.
As a gay, 40-year-old man, I find it frustrating that the new breed of trans-identified kids is compared by many people with being gay. Social media didn't exist, I didn't know one gay soul, and I wasn't part of any alt/nonconformist crowd. I came to understand I was attracted to the same sex on my own in my twenties. Now kids on TikTok are declaring their transness en masse together. And people want to celebrate it and act like it's the same sort of civil rights issue of their authenticity. It's not the same. At all.
You should have added 'who coasted on the efforts others took to educate themselves' after you wrote "as a gay, 40 year-old man".
There is a new term being touted about these TikTokers. “TransTrenders”. That gives the game away. But that’s very different from the gay children who are having their gay sexual orientation “transed away”. There is a report that this practice was rampant at the Tavistock Clinic in the UK. And of course, Irish children were sent there for “treatment” too.
@@nonpareilstoryteller5920 Well, that sounds well-sourced and maximally factual.
@@Capybarrrraaaa what do you mean?
@@gethelp6271 The movement he's villifying is the exact same movement and reasoning that granted him rights.
He's choosing to remain ignorant because he's safe. A 'climb the ladder and pull it up after you' position.
I am glad you discussed the difficulty teenagers have coming to terms with their sexuality. I am 100% homo (ie I have never been romantically and sexually interested in women), but due to other issues (I am likely on the autism spectrum), I had tremendous difficulty coming to terms with my sexuality. If I was a young teenager today I would probably label myself non-binary (especially if I had the misfortune of seeing gay porn at a young age). I basically had very little interest in sex until my twenties (likely a combination of mild body dismorphia and discomfort of being touched). I am not surprised that a significant number of trans identified individuals are on the autism spectrum. One of the common symptoms of ASD is feeling alienation from one’s peer’s. Combine that with same-sex attraction, it is understandable that people are attracted to the trans community that seems more accepting of quirkiness. Unfortunately it seems to be leading people to use medical treatments that will in the long run make things worse.
I'm neither gay, OR trans, so no dog in EITHER fight. But I'm old enough to have been an adult thru both issues.
I supported gay rights/marriage, right from the start. Because why WOULDN'T you support two consenting adults, sleeping with who they choose? Where.is the downside to ANYONE, except those who feel entitled to impose their beliefs onto everyone else?
But trans is very different; I did INITIALLY support """trans rights'''''", basically just out of inertia, because I unthinkingly just accepted the narrative that so-called "trans rights''' were (somehow?!?) an extension of gay rights, and "the next civil rights struggle"...
...but very quickly, I saw that these are fundamentally different issues.
>Gay rights never demanded the adoption of evidence-free ideological concepts like sex-independent "gender", a mystical, 100% undetectable thing that we are ALL demanded to believe in, and to universally prioritise ABOVE real-world, evidence-based sex...
>Gay rights never required DESTROYING the rights of others, or prioritising the rights of gay people ABOVE the rights of anyone else... But men who self-ID as "trans women" commit sex crimes at THE EXACT SAME rate as any man (approx 50x the rate that actual women commit sex crimes)...
So letting a man who self-ID's as a "trans women" into a women's bathroom, means SACRIFICING the rights, safety and privacy of ALL the dozens/hundreds of women who use that bathroom, in the name of ONE SINGLE stunning, brave (man who self-ID's as a...) "trans woman"...
-The only real, factual claim that gay rights ever made, was that some adults are same-sex attracted... and IT DIDN'T EVEN MATTER if you accept or reject that belief; Even if (for whatever reason) you REJECT that claim, and say "Nope. Gay men are MERELY PRETENDING to be same-sex attracted, for whatever spooky, nefarious political/religious reason!!", you would STILL have no rational basis to stop these consenting adults doing as they please, in the privacy of their own life...
But "gender" is VERY different; It demands that WE ALL MUST accept the 100% evidence-free claim that "trans women ARE women (in some mystical sense, of that word "woman", who's evidence-based definition got DESTROYED, in the name of this slogan...). This "compelled belief" is totally different to the "live and let live" attitude of the gay rights movement.
>The mainstream gay rights movement VOCALLY REJECTED the idea that children can somehow give valid "consent"; The mainstream """trans rights""" movement demands that EVERYONE accept (or at least PRETEND to believe) that children's "consent" to life-changing body-alteration, is somehow meaningful and valid.
> "Gender" ideology is IN DIRECT OPPOSITION to the rights of same-sex attracted gays and lesbians.
"Gender" ideology says it's impermissible "hateful bigotry" to acknowledge the evidence-based sex of someone else; You must ONLY acknowledge their evidence-free "gender" self-ID...
Which leads to men, self-IDing as "trans women", who DEMAND that lesbians MUST be open to sex with biological males, who declare themselves "women"....
Because same-SEX attracted homoSEXuality is 100% impermissible, under "gender" ideology; Believers in "gender" ideology are trying to re-define "gay/lesbian" to mean "same-GENDER" attracted (with no concern for what gays and lesbians want, same as when they re-defined "womanhood", out from under the feet of women...)
ie. "Gender" ideology demands that ALL same-SEX attracted, homoSEXual gays and lesbians must STOP being gay/lesbian, and become definitionally bi-SEX -ual; Open to relations with BOTH sexes...
And any gay or lesbian who REMAINS exclusively same-SEX attracted, is deemed a "hateful transphobic bigot", virtually nahtzee, according to the evidence-free ideology of "gender"...
Which means it's 100% logically impossible to support BOTH """trans rights""", AND the rights of exclusively same-sex attracted gays and lesbians...
You can support so-called "trans right", OR "gay rights"... But you can't logically support BOTH... (because you can't support both [X] and [total absence of X], with [X] being "exclusive, same-SEX attraction")
@@Gdr5928 the modern trans movement is a heterosexual problem. It's not gay men in dresses violently harassing Women to sleep with them, is it?
@@Gdr5928 Wow. After reading all that you still thought it'd be fine to post your homophobic BS. Or did you just skim it and fill in the blanks with what you wanted to see?
_"Gay rights never demanded the adoption of evidence-free ideological concepts like sex-independent "gender""_
Correct, because 'gender' is a cisnormative concept. It is not proposed by queer people, it is proposed by straight people. Gender-queer people just ask for equal treatment under it. If it's fine for straight people do use gender, then it'll be fine for others to use it, too.
_"Gay rights never required DESTROYING the rights of others"_
Trans-rights don't, either.
_"letting a man who self-ID's as a "trans women" into a women's bathroom, means SACRIFICING the rights"_
You're correct that this is a logical flaw. However, your understanding of the people proposing this is inverted; this is a problem caused by the subjectivity and stupidity of 'gender'. Trans people don't ask for this; they ask for gender-neutrality, which solves all issues regarding the socialisation of people towards discomfort/danger/etc. because of their gender. This problem is straight people making stupid rules, getting burned, and looking for a scapegoat.
_""gender" is VERY different; It demands that WE ALL MUST accept the 100% evidence-free claim that "trans women ARE women...""_
Again, correct, but you're inverting the blame for that. Cis people want to play these silly gender-games and expect their hypocritical ideas to be pandered to. The fact that queer people say 'okay, but us too, then' isn't a logical problem for queer people; your issue is with the axiom that cisgender people set.
_"The mainstream """trans rights""" movement demands that EVERYONE accept (or at least PRETEND to believe) that children's "consent" to life-changing body-alteration"_
It... just doesn't? This only makes sense if you fall for the right-wing extremists' crap and think 'transitioning' means 'body-alteration', but it doesn't.
_"Because same-SEX attracted homoSEXuality is 100% impermissible, under "gender" ideology; Believers in "gender" ideology are trying to re-define "gay/lesbian" to mean "same-GENDER" attracted"_
*_This... is your brain on Gender_* *smashes egg*
_""Gender" ideology demands that ALL same-SEX attracted, homoSEXual gays and lesbians must STOP being gay/lesbian"_
Aside from 'gender ideology', the term, being a fascist dogwhistle; yeah, that's kinda true since gender-neutrality does mean losing definitions for 'gay' and 'lesbian', but that doesn't mean we stop acknowledging how society uses those concepts. Even if I don't recognise 'race' as a valid concept, I can still identify that racists don't like certain groups because of specific traits.
_" it's 100% logically impossible to support BOTH """trans rights""", AND the rights of exclusively same-sex attracted gays and lesbians"_
Quite the opposite; gay-rights have trans-rights at their foundation. The whole reason people are, arbitrarily, discriminated against for their sex-preferences is _because_ these lines are drawn.
Where in hell are you getting all this nonsense and particularly the statistics? Transgender folks are in no way requiring anything of gays, lesbians and heterosexual people. Are you not a aware that being transgender is only gender identity and in no way sexuality? Trans people go out with people of their same sex or opposite sex depending on their sexuality and not due to some gender ideology. That's pure nonsense.
My thoughts exactly, but much better said than I could! Can’t believe more people are not seeming to be seeing how incompatible trans ideology is with the rights of everyone else, a totally false association.
24:10 for me I definitely believe homophobic thoughts were what amplified the gender dysphoria I had. My older sister came out as lesbian when I was in my early 20’s. When she came out my first thought was I thought I was going to be the lesbian of the family (even though I wasn’t sexually attractive to women yet). But my second thought was well, I can’t be a lesbian and we have two lesbians in the family. A very internalize homophobia thought. I’ve learned there are lots of family with two gay kids.
I finally desisted after ten years of identifying with the trans community. I never medically transition and barely did any social transitioning
Phew! Sounds like you dodged a bullet there!
@@HellCatt0770it sure feels that way. I went from, wow this is exciting and liberating when I came out to wow this is insane and no one should want to medically transition. Just because we can do something, doesn’t mean that we should.
There is something fundamental about affirmation and accommodation being seen as primary things that need to happen in order to validate a trans person's identity and help them become who they "really are". It seems to me to be the opposite of what, I assume, is best practice in dealing with people with complex identity issues. It places the responsability for the trans person's mental health and happiness externally, on the family/school/society rather than encouraging them to find within themselves self-affirmation and a healthy, balanced disregard for the opinions of others about who they choose to be.
When Sasha talked about the accommodations needed within a family in order to integrate a trans identifying child it struck me that these things appear, on the surface, to be small but changing "she" to "he", relearning a name, self policing one's language to avoid small slights, having to suspend disbelief to help a child pretend they are the opposite sex (forever!) are all enormous things to consistently achieve. It seems that if one makes a mistake, and triggers the child's gender dysphoria, making them question who they really are, it is made to seem like a transphobic slight against the person has been committed. The trans person is asking the whole family to change (and the trans movement in general, the world to change) to validate their internal idea of who they "really" are and what the world should be, to accept the fundamental untruth that a person of one sex can literally become the opposite sex.
As a person that grew up in a home with a controlling narcissist at the head, This externalization of blame ("I would be happy if only you changed the way you are") is strikingly similar to the way narcissists think, and what a dominant narcissist asks a family to do in order to prop up the grandiose version of who they think they are inside. They need to be constantly affirmed, lest they collapse into self pity. They need to never be challenged on their feelings and behaviours lest they briefly glimpse reality and react with either physical or emotional violence.
My father was extreme, but these "externalizing" traits are incredibly common in the population as a whole. Many people seem to have missed an essential life lesson in childhood about what they can and can't control in order to find contentment.
I should clarify. I think it is reasonable for a child to have these feelings about the world, to be confused about internal/external control, but to validate a confused child's opinion that the family/world needs to change in order for the child to be happy, is completely unworkable and a recipe for inevitable misery and failure.
Jazz Jennings has publicly stated on her “I Am Jazz” show that “ I just want to feel like myself but I never feel like myself” so whether at some stage in the future, Jazz comes to a different conclusion to the one her parents, the show and Jazz have been promulgating is yet to be seen. But so far Jazz Jennings problems have not been solved by medically transitioning from male to female and now, the “storyline” that is being pushed is that Jazz is Asexual rather than that her sexuality has been stunted or indeed abolished by the medical process she has been put through. So perhaps parents considering “transitioning” their children should take a close look at the adult Jazz and think carefully about consequences. A mature adult in their late twenties or early thirties, choosing to take this path is a very different matter from a parent putting a child on the path of puberty blockers that most don’t get off. See my comment below about the adolescent brain.
She's a victim. I feel very sad for her.
@@llkoolbean4935Blair White agrees with you. As do I.
I am so sorry but I see the length of your message and I just can't read it… if you can keep it shorter and more succinct tons of people would love to read what you have to say.
If it takes one sentence responses to educate people, then they are going to miss a lot of nuance. I suggest starting with shorter comments and sticking with reading longer and longer ones until you are able to ingest a depth of information yourself. You can do it!! Xxo
As a young teenager, I was frightened of men and of the sexual desire my body aroused in men. I was also disinterested in fulfilling the “gender role” that my parents (of the Greatest Generation) expected of me, and I strongly resisted that pressure to conform. (I was in my 40s and a mother twice over before I willingly chose to wear a pink garment, which I grant is ridiculous.). I did strength-dominant sports, chose a “masculine” profession and eventually joined the military.
But it never occurred to me that I might not be a woman. We were interested in breaking down barriers, not in changing our bodies into something they were not.
I’m a lefty Brit who moved 3 years ago to Boston MA with my wife and little girl. The environment terrified me. We attended toddler birthday parties that had pride+ flags INSTEAD of decorations and I honestly descended into a weird condition.
For a while, my wife worried that I was going down a right-wing rabbit hole, but we have ended up in full agreement and stronger together than ever. I didn’t change, she didn’t change. We just got our heads around how and why the madness must not get into our lives.
I must attribute a good deal of this to you ladies. It’s all we wanted to have a balanced, open-minded, loving and healthy way to say “cutting bits off kids because they reckon it’s right doesn’t sound correct”. We are there now, and I thank you both so much.
The UK, like Canada, as far as Institutions is concerned, has rapidly adopted the Gender Ideology now sweeping much of the West, which, less we forget accounts for less than 10% of the global population. Thankfully, and as a parent of a 16 year old daughter, I reside in Hong Kong, which, thus far has been immune to Gender Ideology despite many being educated in the West. Strangely, as far as same sex relationships goes both Hong Kong and Shanghai were havens under colonialism and this is still true today in Hong Kong - its also far less sexualised here than the UK, which may also help.
@@christopherrogers9243 odd coincidence. We were in HK before UK. 8 years. Culture shock supreme. From “uncle” to “white supremacist fascist transphobe” in one simple relocation. 😉
Gosh, its a small world for some - no doubt, being a musician, in all probability you've visited the small Island I reside on in the South China Sea.
Needing to "prove" that one is trans extends to women who identify as non-binary as well, even if they have NO body dysmorphia. They view mastectomy as a rite of initiation to prove that they really aren't "cisgender" women.
It's a tribe. The youth have a very strong need for a tribe, belonging to a tribe, for security when distancing from the parents and also as a way show the world and to find out themselves who they are.
Cutting off body parts is a grim initial rite.
Your lovely friendship is just one of the reasons I watch your channel =)
When I was a girl, I wanted to be a boy. I had short hair and wore "boys' clothes" to school. It wasn't till I started getting bullied by a few boys that I tried to prove I was a girl by wearing a dress to 3rd grade one day. Then I started growing my hair out as a better indicator of a girl because I really hated dresses (I only wore those to church, because in my house it was disrespectful to go to church in pants as a girl). My mother is a second wave conservative feminist. She would tell me as a child, when I complained about being a girl, that there is no wrong way to be a girl and that there wasn't anything the boys did that I couldn't do as well. It helped.
During my teen years, I started having sexual dreams where I was a man on dates with women. I never had dreams where I was a woman on dates with men or other women. I had these recurring dreams for 3 or 4 years. During these years, I was in therapy and under psychiatry care for my bi-polar 1 with phycosis that was found when I was 16. I didn't want to discuss my sex life, dating life, or my odd sex dreams with my therapist. But after 3 years of therapy, I did open up a little, which prompted a question. Whould it becthe end of the world if I wasn't straight? I don't know why, but the question was like permission to look at my self, and my crushes, and my actual feelings. I grew up in a church that was fairly accepting of LGBT people. There were gay and lesbian members in my church. But the church still viewed the act of homosexuality as a sin even as we opened our arms for the LGBT community. It is part of loving the person and hating the sin that is central to our church. It didn't take me long to realize that I was bisexual. My dreams stopped and my gender confusion stopped when I realized my sexuality.
I tried to join my college's GLAAD club, but they were very weary of bisexuals. They were the ones who demanded that I demonstrate that I belonged. I didn't stay in such a hostile environment. I tried coming out to my parents, and they gave me a book on how to pray away the gay. I decided then to accossicate with those who believed me and have minimal contact with e everyone else.
Short answer: No.
Long answer: Hell no!
I find that the current problem is the fact transgender people have existed thats not the problem. The issue is transgender people have always been a minority. Today its explodes. I am trans and gender non confirming, but I reject this medical model which fails to address the issues deeper than gender. I want a world when transgender people can thrive, but not be used as ponds for the culture war.
Regular transgender people don't want to be apart of movement they just want to live their lives in peace as they believe they are. The noise has created a hostile environment it's just insane. Gender ideology doesn't represent every transgender person
Transgender people haven’t always existed in the current medicalised way. Not only because medical options are relatively. In fact there are only a minuscule amount of people in history who claimed to be the opposite sex. Usually they were only trying to get something from it and didn’t literally believe they were the opposite sex. Mostly it was what we called “cross-dressing” men, Wii were typically men who were batchelors or men in environments without any women, who found a creative way of replacing women - as in, they were temporary identities to get their sexual needs met. There were also women who “lived as men”, which meant having a job or fight in a war and having to go into a disguise to get one. That’s not the same as being trans. Reading their own writing about the experience clarifies that they didn’t actually identify as men, but had to do it because they were either lesbians, single mothers, getting revenge, or forced to by their families. Their experiences have more in common with waves of feminism and the progress of women than trans men’s experiences.
I'm two years down the track of having a daughter who thinks she's born in the wrong body. At the beginning the only information I could find was provided by Mermaid's and the NHS. I had a GP, a teacher, a therapists, ALL telling me that I should affirm my 12yr olds desire to change her identity. We never affirmed her wishes and took the watchful waiting approach. Its been a very difficult time in our family. However 2 years on she is starting to move away away from her boy identity. She is so much happier in her body, says she doesn't have "gender dysphoria" anymore. She is nearly 15 now. She's amazing. I had so many people tell me its just like being gay in 80's and how that was not accepted and how I should just "be kind" and accept this new identity. I now know I was right, I am filled with horror that my daughter could potentially have been put on puberty blockers, on track to cross sex hormones had I "accepted/affirmed" her wishes. Thank you for everything you do, and thanks for this video on this topic. I SO wish I had found you 2 years ago. Would have saved me a lot of heartache. Forever grateful for your wise words in this truly crazy world.
Thank you for sharing your story. We're glad to hear your daughter is doing so well.
That must have been a difficult time to navigate. So tough for caring parents to know the right thing to do. I'm glad things got better.
@@widerlenspodmy daughter has now completely moved away from her trans identity, after 2 years of thinking she was a boy. She has in the last month thanked me for not affirming her, and is a bit embarrassed about it all now. She said she was very down and confused at the time.
2 points. 1. Nobody is truly transgender, and people who claimed transition worked for them are not the most stable or reliable demographic. The increasing reports of people with dementia who transitioned and have now FORGOTTEN that it ever happened, and are consequently in deep, irredeemable distress should be a warning. 2. We have no way of predicting the outcome of transition, but since we know it is NOT the right treatment for 80+% of youth who claim to be gender dysphoria, the balance of evidence is strongly against transitioning any of this cohort.
1. That's ideological nonsense.
2. We don't need to.
That must be a small cohort, is anyone researching this? I feel like there will be a much larger sample in a few decades, which is upsetting. I'm also wondering whether there's a link between cross sex hormones and dementia, I think there can be a reduction in dementia occurrence in women using HRT... I don't have a source though.
@@Capybarrrraaaa 1 So do you think there is such thing as true trans?
2 Why on earth wouldn't we want to know the outcome of irreversible changes specifically when we know most kids with gender dysphoria grow out of it?
@@robertmarshall2502 1. There isn't such thing as 'true trans', the concept only exists when you presuppose cisnormativism; the same thing that trans-rights movements seek to dissolve.
2. They didn't say 'irreversible changes', they said "transition". And the reason why we 'don't need to know' is because cisnormative people _already do this._ The only thing trans-activists are saying is 'okay, then trans identities can do that, too'.
"growing out of gender dysphoria" is such a nebulous and unserious idea. Everyone experiences GD in some regard. You either ignore it and take the hit, or you make the changes to align with it.
@@Capybarrrraaaa OK mate, I get it. You're incredibly ideologically captured to the point of making insanely nonsensical statements. It's very clear you know very little about this subject and haven't read about it.
True trans has nothing to do with "cisnormativism" which isn't a thing. True trans is a concept within trans. "Trans rights movements" don't actually even know what rights they're fighting for except dismantling those of women.
The next paragraph is completely nonsensical. Non-trans ppl don't already take opposite sex hormones or have genitalia removed. Trans activists are definitely not saying that. What a ludicrously laughable idea.
We know the majority of kids grow out of gender dysphoria. It's been shown in over 10 studies. Therapy helps too. The kind trans activists want to ban (ie exploratory and holistic).
I understand you're entirely ignorant of the fact most kids with gender dysphoria traditionally grow up as gay men but there's really no excuse for that.
No everyone doesn't experience gender dysphoria in some regard. You really have deepthroated some bs. That's like saying everyone suffers autism or anorexia. Mate you embarrassed yourself.
Great discussion. I have your book on order, I’m set to receive it next month, and I’m looking forward to reading it!
Hope you enjoy it!
Thank you so very much for addressing this topic! In many instances over the last view years, i got the impression that non-negligible parts of the transgender and queer movement are inherently anti-gay, saying this from my perspective as a gay man.
Calling us deeply homophobic names if we don't share their opinions, asserting gay men would be priviliged - despite gay and bi men are by far most subjected to violence on the streets of all LGBT groups, as can be seen in police statistics.
Ultimately, the most anti-gay thing they do - to my opinion - is trying to erase us. Gay and lesbian people who never called themselves "queer" are now being labeled this way and are being bullied if they object (see David Seradis). A non-binary swiss author calls gay identity "proto-fascist" in a book that has won major book prizes.
I think this "queer" label will go on to make gay, lesbian and bi people more and more invisible, eventually replacing those terms altogether. In the end, there cannot be made an easy linguistic distinction any longer between homo/bisexuality and the gender identities.
But this might be what the queer and transgender movement want. It is, however, not what previous generations of gay, lesbian and bisexual people fought for and what is still in the best interest of many of our people today.
Experiencing internalized homophobia, is exacerbated by online and real world spaces that purport to cater to gay and lesbian ppl who focus primarily on promiscuous or unusual sexual practices, hook up culture, drug use and partying which may not be what a gay or lesbian person is interested in.
56:00 the bit about being taken seriously. Rites of passage would have once involved an air of trepidation for the teenager that the extended community would have shared in and been aware of, dare I use the word "affirmed"!
As a child in the 1960s birthday cards and letters addressed to me would have used the pronoun "Master". My sisters would have been addressed with the pronoun "Miss".
I believe these were arffirming our status, which, unfortunately certain branches of feminism chose to define as patronising.
The first neo-pronoun was Ms. and the first social movement to divorce gender from sex was feminism.
Feminism has been tainted with an anti natal stance, motherhood was to be avoided, men's attributes and achievements were to be covetted.
This "gender war" has dismantled the boundary between adult Mr/Mrs and child-juvenile Mstr/Miss.
The contraceptive pill was framed as liberation for women, whereas it often (if not predominantly) played into men's desires for access to women without paying due respect to their vulnerability as child bearers, not to mention them being far more prone to predation due to the contrast in size and strength between men and women.
I've been listening to Mary Harrington, in case you hadn't guessed!
As a parent I find it saddening that children are often under pressure to declare their sexuality and gender identity before they’re even close to developing sexually. My daughter was asked at school, along with the whole class to place herself on the spectrum of gender identity and declare her sexual orientation at 11 years old! She was so confused, it took months to work through it.
People come to an understanding of their sexual orientation naturally over time. Girls often have very intense crushes on other girls during adolescence. It's not an indicator of sexual orientation. I'm a gold star lesbian (never had sex with a man) & I had crushes on boys, too, even in college. I just had a lot MORE crushes on girls through the years. Anyway, I knew I was gay before I even knew the word for it! Kids should not be taught this stuff in school. Let kids know they are loved & teach them how to have HEALTHY, happy, & enduring relationships, regardless of their sex.
Sue that school. Jeeze.
@@DonnaBrooks Spot on! I told her a good relationship is what’s important it really doesn’t matter if you end up with boys or girls or nobody at all as long as you’re good for each other.
For me as a lesbian who is "gender non conforming" i see gay rights/liberation movement above all as a mechanism to encourage people to learn to accept themselves for who they are and the role they have witihin society and saying to that person you dont have to change who you are. To really help drive out those negative thoughts that gay people often have about themselves and that had seemed to be working gay people were more accepted at least within the west.... And gender affirming care is about encouraging and being postitive about negative feelings that a gender non conforming person or a person going through a major live change eg puberty will naturally have about their body or place in society and therfore affirming that that person is somehow "wrong" and there is something that they can do to change themselves and then everything will be wonderful... simplistically.....
Being positive and encouraging TO CHANGE THE NEGATIVE THOUGHTS
Being positive and encouraging OF THE NEGATIVE THOUGHTS
I think that a lot of well intentioned good hearted people get swept along by trans ideology because it uses this positive language which is very hard to argue against even with yourself because you want to do the right thing the kind thing I think it's very clever movement that has subverted a lot of good people and organisations...
Sasha and Stella spot on usual
"Nature is bigger than me" reminds me of someone saying "nature has a higher tolerance of loss than we do" when I was dealing with getting over a medicalised birth. It just reminded me that I didn't have control. That's two-pronged because the medicalising wasn't necessarily working with nature in my case, but realising I HAVE to accept that birth is an event I couldn't captain like a ship, but had to ride like a wave wherever it took me, helped me with acceptance of what happened. I also think that young people are expected to make so many choices at such a stupid time (choosing GCSEs age 13 based on a projected career path is laughable!) that giving this one over to nature and accepting that we shouldn't be trying to control the uncontrollable is very freeing. Working with it is so much more healthy than fighting it.
yup, I'm a 70 year old woman. Im one of those would have been 'transsed' as a kid if I were a child today. I remember praying every night for a year, at 9, to wake up a boy. turns out I was just a lesbian!
Huge Congrats on the launch of your book in the UK! You are the voice of reason (and compassion) that parents need to understand to enable them to navigate this totally confusing and often, devastating experience. Your book will occupy a prominent place on my bookcase (once I can get it in Canada).
From this Canadian psychotherapist to you both- cheers! 🎉
At the end you are really on to the dynamic i see. For me as a gay kid it was going evangelical- it offered intimacy without having to prove heterosexuality in light of the purity culture and it gave me a chance to make a difference. I had come out to my parents and there had been total acceptance but for years nothing but books and occasional expressions of parental affirmation in a way it was my dare to mom and dad to do something to help me and to take the lead in making it possible for me to find others like myself.
Thank you for this amazing discussion. I appreciate you both for being so courageous and vulnerable.
Thank you for this deep dive into the differences between sexual orientation and human identity as female or male.
Im not even a parent yet I learned so much from this discussion, thank you.
I'm exempt from the 3 AM listening rule.
Is there any research on whether the rate of suicide has reduced statistically to correlate to the statistics of how many children/youth transition? I keep hearing the argument about suicide and don't know where that information originated.
The only statistics we have show that suicide among young people has risen in the past decade, which seems to contradict the narrative that "gender affirmation" prevents suicide. We have a whole episode on suicide where we break down some of the rhetoric being passed around right now. It's Episode 34, if you'd like to check it out.
@@widerlenspod Thank you so much for responding and referring me to that episode! Thanks so much for all your work, it is highly enlightening.
It’s understandable that people get confused about all of this. An acquaintance told me that her son was gay. A man attracted to a man. Fine. Then about a year later, her child said they were a trans-woman (no bottom surgery), but attracted to men.
52:30 Very interesting, Stella. And equally interesting at 54:00, Sasha.
I adore Stella, she's just seems so ennthusiastic and genuine and warm-hearted.
Medically transitioning kids should be illegal. These surgeons should be jailed. 😢
Yes, this is malpractice at best, sterilizing children at worst
Somehow I cannot see Stella as a boyish girl 🤣
Why not? I certainly can.
I can
i really appreciated and enjoyed this conversation, and the two of you generally. i've heard many LG say that if they were young today they'd be caught up in the trans mania, but i've also heard gay destransitioners dismiss this notion. i don't think any of us are saying we would've gone the whole way, but it would have appealled to us to some extent. even when society seems to accept you, it's still easy to feel unaccpetable.
Helen Joyce is right, every society/culture has its own way of dealing with the gays. i think back through history the multitude of ways the LGB was dealt with: stoning/murder, lobotomies, aversion experiments, exorcisms/religious indoctrination, psychotherapy conversion efforts, and sometimes acceptance. when we finally got equality here in Canada in 2005 i was happy, but the dark side of me thought that this would also an excellent way to identify the LGB in case TPTB wanted to _do something_ about us. no, the reality is not that dark, this isn't Iran, yet. but the fact is, here we're even more efficient than Iran, Canada is getting many of the LGB long before adulthood. we've banned T conversion therapy by conflating it with G conversion therapy and pointing to a 30+ year-old old study on G conversion therapy (2.5% of gay men experienced it), that would no longer even be relevant. and, most importantly, nobody cares that transing kids _is_ the gay conversion therapy of today.
Today is my birthday and i was looking for something significant to be grateful for--i am _so_ grateful that i'm 60 and not 20, kids today are in tough.
I've had a long back and forth with myself about how trans was/could be the new gay. I think both categories were definitely lumped together in the past. Now, not so much. That's not the problem to me. I think we just need to stop deferring our opinions to more ideologically novel things and instead focus on what we do have and using that to our advantage.
What was Stella's movie called again?
Trans kids: it's time to talk
@@hilcro1 thank you
This is very helpful for me as a therapist to pay attention to as well
Great episode! This was so good. Keep it up!
Here’s a thought, for what it is worth. Women look much more like the girls they were than men look like the boys they were. Testosterone is such a powerful drug/hormone that it will permanently masculinize a person’s voice & appearance. This is the reason people (recklessly, in my opinion), push early medicalization for “gender transition” for MtF “trans kids,” because if a human has gone through male puberty, they will very likely never be able to “pass” as a female. However, because testosterone is so powerful, there is (or should be) NO RUSH to medically transition FtM people. Heck, even as a middle aged woman, if I started getting testosterone injections now, my body (& very likely my voice) would masculinize and I could “pass” as a male person.
Stereotypes are strangely worse today than a hundred years ago. Yes, women wore dresses, but mothers could be quite masculine, strong, in charge, and fathers could be gentle and nurturing, (weve seen this in our own family) but they were not confused about their sexuality.
It's important not to mis-state the facts. At first it was thirty percent of gender confused teens would, if left to develope naturally, would grow into gay adults. But from that "30%" so many speakers are now saying "most" (will grow up to be same sex attracted adults.) When that is not accurate. Thirty percent is not "most."
I'm curious where are people getting these figures?
I think it would be interesting to dedicate an episode on Iran, where homosexuality is prohibited and punished but is allowed to transition (MtoF). Makes me reflect.
Would trans people's partners keep loving them if they stop taking exogenous hormones? If the answer is no, then I don't think these partners love them. I don't know about female HSTS, but male HSTS seek more than sex with straight-identified men and they rarely find longterm relations. Not only their lovers prefer to marry real women, but also male HSTS don't connect with "hetero" husbands as they would connect with completely gay husbands. I imagine it is the same with female HSTS in relation to straight-identified women.
Straight women aren't going out with women pretending to be men. Women pretending to be men are going out with lesbians and straight men. Because they're women, and when it comes to sexual attraction its biological sex that matters not delusional beliefs about gender.
@@lilith3953 Where did I say that straight women date other women? I talked about the straight-identified women that date female HSTS. These women are obviously bi or lesbian.
Trans people don’t go after straight people more often, that’s simply a lie. Majority of trans people are with bi people or gay people or even other trans people. I started dating my bf when I identified as a boy, and now I’m trans. Trans people can and do have happy and fulfilling relationships.
It would help avoid confusion if you explained what HSTS means & not assume everyone knows. Just put the words the initials stand for in parenthesis the first time you use the letters. @@miketaylor1349
Damn it, not first lol. Haven't watched it yet but you haven't let us down so far ❤❤❤
54:12 yes, quite right. ❤
I believe that this scandal will lead to a more psychological, non-invasive treatment in the future.
You need to interview Ute Heggen about the data she has collected on the effects on the other family members, spouses, siblings and children.
In Jordan Peterson's counseling session with Chloe Cole, she was very visibly moved when he told her that the feelings she had in her teen years were normal and experienced by other teens. She said "nobody had told me that."
I so 💜you both and your content and approach to these issues.
"Watch this." EXACTLY. Especially in autism.
I think YES. Gay people are coming up as TRANS now. There has always been gays who prefer to identify with the oposite sex, now we have a name for that category and before admitting that they are gay, they start with this "new identity" BS. Your personal experience (Stella) wasn't trans. You hated your body, so did I! I couldn't tolerate to wear sleeveless shirts ''cause I hated my shoulders, but also my hips, my tights and my nose. I dare to ask if there's any teenager from either gender who hasn't struggled with his/her self image to certain extend.
Such an interesting and fascinating conversation. Congratulations on the book 🎉
Sasha I’m so glad you’re talking about this, I’ll be going into detail about the lesbian experience of struggling to find their adult sexual orientation and sometimes get derailed by gender ideology, in my GETA presentation on 14 October
I saw a lovely woman from Netherlands(I think) make some pottery as an Earth friendly way to cool a room. She said it was a hot day and when I looked up the temperature conversion it was 68 F. 🤪
An additional concern is that by emphasizing whether a competing athlete went through a natural puberty or not, and measuring hormone levels can actually push youth into blockers before puberty.
I was like Stella. However, I never desisted. I thought the gender dysphoria would wane. It never did.
❤
Easy question! No.
Keep up the good fight!
9 minutes in (~15%), and this seems to be an infomercial.
Even if you knew or guarantee a child is transgender would you treat them any differently
Hahaha! Nope.
The subjects are interesting. The giggling and adolescent behavior makes the show unlistenable. Rethink the tone or stop making the show.
Or perhaps this is just not the show for you. Other people enjoy it (like myself), so I hope that they don't rethink the tone or stop making the show.
The tone helps normies "feel safe" listening. An effective inroad to an egregiously barbaric practice born of a twisted and delusional ideology.
Stella is a wise and thoughtful person; she's also a very warm person who laughs a lot. You're basically saying "change your personality or stop making the show". Given that there are other sources of information available, a reasonable and more practical solution for you might be to just not watch it.