Oh No! I Can’t Register My Ram HD Cummins Diesel Without Dealing with This Emissions Recall... Pt.2
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- Опубліковано 2 чер 2024
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#ram #cummins #recall - Авто та транспорт
California will never change for the better until you stop voting for liberals.
A before and after dyno test would probably be more precise.
Exactly!
They won't pay for that lol, they absolutely should though.
A dyno isn't going to show the cold start warm up difference and the increase use in DEF. So far actual use towing with the new flash doesn't show any affects.
@@RMmotorsports1000they did a dyno test on a vw diesel, 2 and 4 wheel, back during the height of dieselgate. Their theory at that time was that it was detecting an emissions test was in progress if the front wheels were in motion but not the rear.
@jeffs2809 your correct I'm just meaning just a random customer isn't gonna get that treatment unless they pay themselves.
You should also do a actual smog test before they screw up the truck. Then do one after to see how much “cleaner” the truck is.
This is what I would like to see.
In the California the so called smog test is plug into the obd plug. The test looks for dtc’s, looks for all the monitors to be fully run and passed. Modified software.( CARB) has been collecting this data ever since they switched to obd checks. A snap smoke test. There is tailpipe test in California YET!
The problem is that we don’t really know what the actual “defeat device” or “auxiliary emission control device” consists of without seeing the CARB/EPA detailed findings.
Emissions might be fine on a dyno or all of the time except when the truck has the ac on in tow/haul with a trailer connected with engine temp over 205* and throttle above 50%. I’m kind of just throwing #’s out there, but that’s kind of the way an “aecd” vs “defeat device” seems to work. If the manufacturer doesn’t disclose the aecd operation, it becomes a defeat device. If they don’t agree with it the you’ve violated the regulations.
Dude the cheat is to beat smog tests by detecting when the vehicle is going through one. You got any other big brain ideas. If it was that easy it wouldn't take ten years to catch them.
They should show test of standard deleted truck at the tail pipe and one not deleted. Then test and see what's coming out of the tail pipe when it's regening. I'd like to see all that data😮
This past week at my shop, we had a former Cummins engineer in for service, and we asked him about this very topic. He stated it has something to do with when the DEF is being injected into the SCR. In order to work properly, the SCR, like a traditional catalytic converter, needs to be warm. Apparently, the government wants the DEF injected right at start up to start controlling NOx emissions levels. The engineer stated that doing this will not only be inefficient at controlling NOx levels but could also result in raw DEF being sent out the tailpipe. It sounds like the EPA and other regulatory agencies dont actually know how emissions control devices actually work and just wanted to make some money.
It’s sounds like Ram needs to hire better engineers.
@greencountrymc926 Engineers aren't the problem, the EPA is.
They could ad preheaters.
Kinda like the head of the ATF is not a firearms expert
It sounds like they do know how the systems work.
The SCR needs to be warm in order to operate properly.
This is not some scam to take your money. Yes, the components are expensive but so is your whole truck. Is the turbo that gives you more power just a scam because it's expensive?
Like all new technology, these systems definitely need refining but it's a small price to pay to ensure protection of human health. Look how far we've come with gas emissions systems. We'll get there with diesel too.
Please add a dyno test before and after as well. 0-60 is not necessarily a big worry for a diesel owner. Thanks for what you guys do!
What's a dyno test, and what does it do
@@jarredwoodard9395 You strap the vehicle to a tester and measure power at the wheels with a computer.
Absolutely should do a dyno test. I'm sure they can find a partner in Colorado.
...only when towing...
It's possible part of the Cummins "defeat device" (software?) is it runs clean on dyno, and dirty on the road. ....... just like VW did.
I'm glad you guys have kept that Cummins truck. This will be a good series to follow
Thank you for watching.
Agreed, dyno your truck, before and after!
Needs to be deleted though
Probably lots of power loss... after recall completed
@@theglitch99 Considering their truck is not getting recalled, I doubt much will change. They are only recalling 2018 and earlier. That was announced on Jan 10th.
Please add a dyno test before and after to your testing. Would be really interesting to see how hard the power numbers are hit.
I had my 2500 in for a ABS pump replacement. This 67A was performed. Just finished a 800-mile interstate run with a 10k trailer, I went through a full new box of DEF. My milage was down by 2mpg. Power seems to be the same, but I feel like it was a just bit more labored. No scientific measurement, just my feel and dash observations. I will be anxiously awaiting the results of TLF
Makes me wonder how much quicker this will cause other downstream components in the emissions system to fail if it does regen more often and guzzle DEF. My truck was in the dealer a handful of times for limp mode threat warnings because of those components failing. They'd replace something, clear the code and it would just come back shortly thereafter. In the end, they never did end up figuring it out because I was at the end of my extended warranty period.
Amazing. I've waited 8 months for my 2nd ABS replacement. With new year "discounts" - I traded it. I hated to do it, probably stupid. But I got that notice for emissions also. ALSO, insurance jumped. The trade dropped the insurance, I went to a gasser 1500 from 2500 cummins. It works out.
Well that should help the environment (tongue in cheek)
@semlohde1 This ABS pump was my third! Thank goodness for Mopar 2 year warranty on parts and labor for the second unit!
I also just had my third ABS pump done on my 2018 350. It was last month and they did the 67A recall while they had it. I have not towed with it since but noticed MPG down slightly and hesitant on accelerating when cold so far.
Have a 2018 I bought this year used with 53k miles on it back in March 2023, love it! I got the recall notice last week here in SC, no plans to take it in!
@UC6DtWZjkzAWyTsrC5DNbkYQ Sure
That’s what I loved about Greenville no bs
We appreciate that you guys identify the problem, talk us through it, then plan to test the truck after everything is completed to show what real owners should anticipate. Big fan of Truck King here but respect you guys all over!!
Maybe you guys could do a dyno run before and after. You could compensate for all variables then.
I would like to see a Dyno and Smog test before and after!
Kyle, have your truck tested before and after and see for yourself.
What if Ram was doing the same thing as VW, and only running the engine clean when specifically on a dyno? The only reason it was discovered the VW was cheating is because a company was road testing their engine for emissions and saw emissions orders of magnitude higher than they should have been. On a dyno they were fine because the PCM had some software to change the engine tuning when it knew it was hooked up.
@@Jay-me7gw if used on a powered 4wd dyno the car could not figure out that it was on a dyno since you did not have to put the car in TC defeat mode.
You guys should also dyno your truck before and after to get some hard numbers.
Is it possible for you guys to get ahold of a 2013-2018 ram also to perform the same before and after tests? Its a completely different engine as we know so I'd love to see what changes if any for the 4th gens. Thanks fellas
With less than 5k miles on our 23 RAM 2500 6.7, we have already had two check engine lights. The first one was a failed particulate matter sensor and the second was a failed DPF. I’m told it had a large crack in it. Explains why my tailpipe is sooted up. If there is a buyback, I’ll gladly let them buy it back. Should’ve kept my 04 Powersroke. 😢
Diesels are cleaner without exhaust regulations. The government just needs a way to line there own pockets
Sure, it’s all a hoax.
Yeah right. Older diesels didn't smoke like the new one's...................................?
Well@@kinikinrd, that smoke is cleaner than the def fluid, which is acidic and extremely toxic to organic materials. Also, the plant life will absorb the carbon monoxide from combustion engines and and turn it into air. Blue def kills just about everything
@@kinikinrd 03 pre emissions 5.9 high output….none of the modern emissions equipment….not a lick of smoke
It's not just the smoke, the NOx emissions are actually harmful and cause cancer, something that is a fact as opposed to the man made climate change CO2 hoax.
Most important thing you guys should be sure to test before the recall is done on your truck is to test the emission levels of your truck. If you walk into the dealership and they see that you’re a big name car review company, maybe they won’t even perform the recall on your truck so that it doesn’t suffer performance (if the fix does cause reduced performance) and slap the sticker on your truck/registration saying “this is fixed.” Then after the recall fix is done test the emission levels again to verify that they actually did do the recall fix.
Thank you all for investigating and reporting on this so detailed!
Yes! I also want to know what exactly the issue is. Thank you TFL for bringing us up to date as you learn.
Thank you for watching.
Calibration issue.
Those of us that live in California have already got the vultures circling. Received in the mail today a notice from a lawyer on Lemon Law recall. I can see a huge lawsuit against Cummins and Ram. Thanks for the update I too received my recall just after the first of the year. Keep up the good work TFL.
That won’t win in court though. That’s ridiculous.
It's not a "lemon". The truck is still functional. Lemon lawyers are vultures. They don't get you any more than you would get on your own.
The State has a formula for payout, and that's what you get. The lawyer, in spite of what they say, will get you nothing beyond that.
I will weigh all your results in testing before and after the new flash is done. My 3500 dually just came off 7 years/120,000 mile extended warranty I added on at time of purchase. If performance and fuel mileage is affected, I probably won't get it done. Enough is enough with all these regulations.
We are just real working people that want a good reliable truck. I am totally with you F**k these commie politicians
Don’t get it done. This shit has to stop.
Do a dyno run on it before the “fix”, and after
9:59 Yeah, this was EXACTLY what I was afraid of. Had a chance to buy a Ram 2500 w/ 6.7l Cummins for only $7k more than the options-I-wanted F150 3.5l eco which leads it's class in towing. Versus that 2500 Ram Cummins that tows 6,000 lbs more. But the FCC $1.67B penalty had just been announced and yeah, I'm in People's Republic of California. Both trucks were great deals, but the Ram was the best deal in terms of discount off MSRP. That Cummins takedown made me pass. Now I'm thrilled that I did because I was terrified I'd buy a Cummins and be forced to detune the hell out of it to keep it on the road. I'm also freaked out about diesels in general: the best truck engine on earth is forced to swallow its own spit and now there's a giant woke target on diesels' back. Ford and GM diesels may be next to get slammed. I despise the way government is trying to force us all to buy EVs whether they suck or not.
I couldn’t agree with you more. As for EV’s, I’m never buying one, they can go to heck with the idea of telling citizens what we will drive.
So there are still people with a brain and the ability to think for themselves in that S hole of a state. Come to Texas.
Great comment. The diesel is much more fun to drive, but commie KAli will terrorize you
Thank you for the upload! very informative. I own a 2019 and this was done to mine in March 1, 2022 recalls when I took in the truck to swap out the fuel pump (CP4). I was notified on the recalls with the RAM app. Just now looked it up. I have not noticed any performance issues.
You guys always do great testing !....Thank you for covering this Cummins info and helping us figure out what it means for truck owners...
They can’t even fill a gas tank properly. 😂😂
It's awesome that you guys are doing that. I hope you include a Dyno run. I'm glad I got rid of mine
This is a great opportunity for before and after tests
Definitely want to see how this pans out. So glad you guys kept the trailhound!
Thank you for the upcoming videos on this situation
I work for CDJR dealership. The 67A recall was already out before the news broke of the Cummins 1.6 billion dollar fine. I did my first 67A recall the Friday after thanksgiving. I’m doing at least one a day. All we do is reprogram the PCM. There is nothing other than a statement stating to bring the vehicle into emissions compliance with EPA and CARB.
I saw a UA-cam video from a aftermarket programmer who got busted by the EPA for selling and installing non compliant tunes. He stated he believes Cummins did was protecting the cat.scr and def under heavy loads to protect them from melt down. That is easily done with software.
I kind of had some suspicions that it might be something along those lines. Cummins/Ram got hit with a decent recall on the SCR (I think) around 18 or 19 for them not lasting long enough, right around that time is when this investigation was started by CARB/EPA.
Every Diesel software has EGT power derate written in, almost like limp mode, nothing new there.
@@JFrasersemple I'm not talking about an EGT power derate. There's various software routines that can allow the emission levels to be outside permitted levels for engine protection. There's also requirements to run a regen periodically. Cummins may not have gotten approval for one (or more) of the engine protection routines. It's also possible the regen didn't heat the DPF/SCR enough and reduced it's performance but kept it from melting during warranty.
Again, just guesses, for now, until or unless Cummins or the EPA releases more details.
So my truck is deleted. What does this do to it now? Do I have to get a tune again after this?
I have a ‘22 Laramie 3500 and just got my recall notice today (1/8). Thanks for staying on top of this. I’m just over the river and through the woods from you guys in Thornton so this will be an issue for me to renew tags as well.
The vehicles included in the recalls are model years 2013 through 2019 Ram 2500 and 3500 diesel vehicles. Model year 2020 - 2023 vehicles are not subject to the recalls. The recalls will ensure the vehicles comply with all the Clean Air Act’s applicable nitrogen oxides (NOx) emission standards.
@@rke1987 Then why did I get a recall notice for my 2022?
My new cummins Ram just arrived at the dealership, will be picking it up this week... Great timing for something like this. Will see how this all goes down soon enough.
Man I received my recall notice last week in the mail but I've been hesitant on taken it in to a RAM dealer. I'm not trying to lose any HP or torque behind this cluster fk! Thanks for the updates.
My guess... It will consume more DEF, and maybe use the EGR little more. Maybe you should monitor the EGR valve during your tests too.
A Dyno would be quick comparison. Everything that you mentioned about testing sounds grand. However, there is no way that the temp, wind speed, cloudy vs. sunny will be the same weeks, days, or even hours apart.
plus the huge difference between winter and summer fuel .
So glad you guys still have this truck. Thank you for keeping us up to date and investigating this issue since the government is being intentionally vague about this for some reason. We are all curious to see what the real world results are.
This whole debacle is exactly what I was afraid of, too. I was planning to shop for a 2018 3500 Cummins soon, the last year you could get the G56 6-speed manual.
Maybe I'll keep an eye out for California trucks for sale and grab one before the recalls are performed. 😂
I live in Maryland though, which tends to follow California off of every cliff without looking. So I'm curious to see what they try to do about these trucks here... 🙄
I don’t think forcing vehicle exhausts to be clean is unreasonable.
Thank you for doing this, We are in Colorado and we got our notice.
I would like you guys to also perform a dyno test as well if you can find the time. I think the added views should make it worth.
Rumor has it the update does at least two things. 1) Locks the PCM so deletes and tunes cannot be performed. 2) Increases DEF and regen usage, which can/will cause more repair/replacement issues to the system.
The pcm/ecm lock hasn’t been confirmed by anyone so far that I’ve read. Just a lot of speculation, but no confirmation. There really haven’t been many people getting it done yet that are tuned that I could find.
Likely cost more DEF fluid usage costing more money, and reduced MPG. That's how VW was able to get higher MPG they could not pass emissions standards.
DEF usage has no bearing on fuel mpg…
@tylermacconnell217 I think what he was trying to say was worse fuel mileage due to increased regen cycles for the DPF in addiiton to increasing DEF to decrease emmisisons.
Change ecm's easy
thanks for doing all those test on Rams truck before the recall and after with the same tow trailers' weight, acceleration etc etc
I bought my 2019 Ram 1500 Classic in Alabama. Alabama isn’t a CARB State, but my Truck is still California compliant. Which was a welcome relief when I moved to Washington State.
Dyno testing before and after the update to get readable numbers would be great 👍
Sourcing a 2018 before and after the fix might be a faster path to determining some of the changes.
There are several theories people have had, DEF usage is one. If you are able to instrument a truck with a gauge that shows and logs EGR/EGT and other sensor readings that might shed some light on what is happening under the hood. It could be a difference in behavior when driving, or when regenerating.
You should also have it on a Dyno tested too. Before and after.
Love the vids TFL!
I fought the CA emissions for years after the first recalls as the truck wouldn’t smog after. Problem solved moved out of California…..zero problems now as the other states don’t care. The recall killed my MPG and the turbo lag was like a 90’s Chevy Diesel. A few adjustments in my new state and I’m getting double my mileage and mega torque to tow my rig around
I am invited and sit in on CARB meetings all the time. I observed one of the directors stating that in order to control emissions on all diesel pick-up it was his vote to test all of them to meet stock OEM specs before they can get license renewal, and fines up to $10,000 for modified software or hardware including non CARB approved aftermarket bolt-ons.
Thank you for this informative info. This sounds unobtainable for a lot of folks to get their service done before their registration renewal is due.
I appreciate your efforts.
Im a head mechanic for a school district with about 18 cummins isb and isc powered school buses. I was concerned that this would put my fleet out of service . Im glad this is for the civilian light duty segment and didnt mess with the medium duty world
Yet
A software update will hardly put your fleet out of service.
@@kinikinrd as a commercial entity and as public school we are following very closely what is going on. If we get something in regards to emissions the vehicle(s) will be put out of service as the rules are different for a public entity.
@@kinikinrd there is one bus that is a 2022 that is out of commission due to a software issue. There is a TSB with Cummins and bluebird yet there are no parts. A $400,000 bus is parked due to software issues from the dealership
School buses are 400k? Thats wild@@twostroke12v71
Just got my notice on my 2013 2500. Currently getting 21.3 mpg on Highway with 4 adults and full bed of supply’s. Def usage is minimal. Zero blow by in crankcase.
Your 2013 truck sounds to be very efficient.
I would not let them touch it.
i get this on my 2021 6.7… ain that good.
That’s about what my Dads 2012 gets and it’s just has tune ,exhaust , and cold air intake
I had a similar recall on my Ecodiesel Ram 1500 last month (I believe it was 66A) and it literally took less than 10 minutes. If you take it in for, say, an oil change, they’ll probably do it while the oil’s draining. It is still a major pain, but it may go faster than we expect…
Any difference in daily driving?
None that I can see; now that it’s winter here in Utah, my fuel mileage has gone down a tad (maybe 0.5 to 1 mpg), but that happens normally when temps get down in the zeros and teens. Long distance fuel mileage with a hot engine appears to be unchanged. I’ve had no performance issues, though I haven’t towed something heavy since they “fixed” it.
I have a 2014 Ram 2500 Cummins, that I love. I’m hesitant about the upgrade causing my fuel mileage to be poor, now the truck get 21 to 22 mpg on a trip, empty. I will be looking forward to your follow up videos. Thanks
It's different thing to tell someone they can't do something. Legislation requiring that people must do something is usually treated with a lot more resistance. And many times thats a good thing. It will be interesting to see how many people are gonna get around this law cause trust me. Its gonna be broken. Forged documents or license plates maybe. Who knows
Why not team up with Mr Bank's and map the ECM before update, Dino test before and after and provide some real numbers and maybe factual details or some local shop with similar resources
If they have questions about this issue, nobody has more experience than Gale Banks. Since his products are 50 state emissions legal, I would like to see them put some Banks parts on their truck to get more power, better fuel economy, and meet emissions standards.
Wondering if the 67A recall is same/similar as Y43 at 10:06? My 2022 Ram 2500 was at the dealer for Y43 in December regarding an emissions recall with PCM flash, and the dealer had also provided me a "Proof of Correction" slip to provide to the CA DMV if requested.
Either way, I haven't noticed any performance issues nor additional DEF consumption even when towing my 12k 5th wheel or putting around town.
Thank you guys. I have a 2014 3500, in a requirement compliance state, so I’d love to see what the correction will do to my truck
My notice I received just went straight into the trash heap. But fortunately, I'm not in a state where an open recall would affect my registration. The dealer will never see my truck again and hasn't since it's been out of its extended warranty. The amount of overreach between the EPA and the California standards is absolutely mind-boggling.
I would also suggest you get a pre and post fix wheel horsepower test to see if there is any horsepower loss as well.
And if there is, I would be making RAM buy my truck back simply because they sold you a bill goods.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the issue. I got my letter last week from ram on my 14 mega Laramie 2500. Going to wait till I hear what it will do for the truck.!!!!!
They are most likely being held hostage to prevent aftermarket tunning. The calibrations might not change, but look for locks on you ecm/tcm. So no change on drivebility on stock performance might be found.
Had the recall done on my 16 2500 today. 1/8/24 .My registration is due at the end of Jan. CA Had me by the short ones! Pulling my 5th wheel on Wed so we'll see what effect it has on my performance and milage
Keep us posted or post a video.
If you’re not running hot shot secret Diesel Extreme and Every Day treatment your asking for problems with this motor and after treatment. I use it in my Peterbilt Cummins 600 hp Isx15 500,000 miles and my 22 ram 2500 only 27000 no problems. The Isx had a Cummins update required for smog/registration I was nervous about it but overall no issues no additional DEF usage Use the Fuel additive will save your motor Good luck
Btw...I'm also glad KY/TN is (so far) CARB free states !!!
I have a 2022 Ram 2500 and live in Northern California, the truck was in for warranty work to replace a bad NOx sensor in 12/2023, the registration was due 12/31/2023. When I got the truck back, the W/O stated it was flashed and is "current with all calibrated emissions". The truck passed smog no problem without any proof of recall or re-flashing, the truck was registered without issue. Performance wise, I noticed no loss of power but increased DEF consumption.
Was the "passed test" before or after the reprograming/ flash?
Re-registered without "proof" of completed fix"- perhaps that was prior to implementing the new DMV/BVM procedure? It takes time for things to filter down the administrative chain. chain.
@@genewind4850 After the re-programming flash, the truck would not have passed before because it had a check engine light for a bad NOx sensor. It was flashed when it was in the shop for the repair.
Awesome job guys keeping on top of this
The crazy thing is that the government only gets deleted brand new f250 and f 350 trucks directly from the factory for military and state uses.
Yep! Typical gov hypocrisy they are never held accountable for. 🖕🏻
Only military vehicles are exempt, and for good reason.
@@KravinMoorehed The gov shouldn’t be exempting themselves from anything they hold the general public accountable to. Typical Bootlicker response.
@@willyhawkins6596 Military vehicles are exempt because they are not built for on highway use. They are built to fight wars, hopefully in other countries. They also don’t meet fuel economy, standards, crashworthiness, standards, rollover standards, and many other regulations designed for on highway use vehicles.
@@KravinMoorehed The original comment said “ F250/F350” vehicles for “military/state use” these HD pickups aren’t being used for “wars.”
They are Being used on and off military bases/federal installations and should meet all the requirements of any other private vehicle. Gov says one of the biggest threats to humanity is “ global warming” you’d think they would be working hard to save the environment by complying with their own rules. But they don’t because they know it’s all BS and they know these DPF systems don’t work and are inherently unreliable so they exempt themselves from the problems because they love hypocrisy and control. And tactical military vehicles with exemptions are definitely built for highway use which is why active/reserve military convoys drive them all over U.S. roadways.
If you live in a state where you can register a deleted vehicle, then this recall will not be required for registration. I expect that it is only a matter of time before emissions become federally regulated and no state will be permitted to allow deleted vehicles on the road, but we aren’t there yet.
It's already illegal in every state, just some don't enforce it as strictly.
It doesn't matter what state you live in,the Epa is federal and it a required repair.People with deleted trucks I think there in trouble.There is a video on UA-cam of a guy in NJ who had a deleted Ram and Epa said put back to stock or scrap it.
Glad I bought an extra truck back in 2006, don't have to worry about all this emission crap. Yeah I know these new trucks have a lot of new bells and whistles but I can still get 21 mpg empty and 12 mph towing my RV at 70 mph.
A little peak behind the curtain, when this recall is performed we reprogram the PCM but if the truck is equipped with an 68RFE transmission we also have to do a transmission quick learn procedure, though even we at a dealership don't know what exactly is happening in the engine or to the engine, all we know is "PCM is out of date"
Find a copy of the completed recall form, edit the form with your own info in a pdf app, provide “evidence” to dmv, register. Kinda like how some folks “documented” their COVID vax 😊
This recall might have nothing to do with the recent Cummins violation. This could be similar to Fords recent emissions recall 22E04 - PCM/TCM update. Some of the language on that Ford recall was similar to this one, so it might be an update to meet new emissions standards. There might still be something bigger coming in terms of recalls from Cummins/Ram to address the violation!
I Believe you are correct. This is not the recall for cummins fine.
Vehicals only have to meet the rules in force at their time of production, which means they weren’t compliant to earlier less stringent emission standards. , if the recall is for some produced almost 10 yrs ago .
You want to reduce nox with no hardware changes, detune.
The solution is to get an aftermarket tune after the dealer reflashes your truck. If the recall reduces HP, Tq or mileage, I foresee a class action against Ram. @4:00... In states requiring the reflash for registration, if the truck was deleted it already can't be registered because a deleted truck won't pass smog with or without the recall, so that's not really an issue. @7:00... Cummins isn't going to say anything more than they have to. This is one of the very many reasons I don't like the idea of the general public having ownership of companies. When the public owns a company, companies have an interest in keeping things from the public. The government isn't going to say anything because they can use non-disclosure as a wedge to pry out a bigger settlement.
Great topic for TFL to follow. I got my recall notice for my 2018 Ram Cummins but don’t plan to do recall until I know more of what it entails. I have an aftermarket PCM tune, emission compliant type, and now and the truck runs great. Not eager to mess that up unless I can reprogram after “ recall”.
I wonder if the recall will lock you out of tuning
Only old guys will be locked out younger folks probably have the right tune ready to go
I am curious why do these companies keep having issues with emissions on their new diesel vehicles? Perhaps the emission requirements are changing regularly and are confusing… thereby leading to compliance issues? I believe Dodge and Cummins owe their customers an explanation as to how the mandatory changes will affect their vehicle performance. To be clear, I do not think the government should be providing this explanation… that is on Dodge and Cummins.
Agreed, if I had a Cummins engine affected by this I would be very angry and want specific answers. Some are of the opinion it will just be a DEF increase, but I'd want information straight from the horses mouth regarding what I am to expect and how it might affect the ownership or resale of the vehicle.
if it were a simple “oops, these engines occasionally pass when they should fail” it might be “confusing compliance issues” - but this is a purposeful “we’re forcing our vehicles to claim they pass when we know for a fact they fail”. This ain’t “compliance issues”, this is cheating plain and simple.
We can debate if the emissions standards are too tough or not; but this is the engine maker+vehicle maker knowingly violating the standards and hiding it.
And yes, RAM+Cummins should absolutely have to openly publish what impacts this has on the vehicle, and offer a buyback/partial-refund if it significantly impacts usability. Lowers rated towing capacity? Grounds for buyback.
@@AnonymousFreakYT I agree with you 100%. In addition, I do not understand how we continue to have new diesel vehicles wrapped up in this type of scandal. It is clear that emission requirements are becoming more strict, but why are these companies unable/unwilling to follow the rules? Correct me if I am wrong, but it seems like every major manufacturer has been caught with this type of emissions violation. I want to give the benefit of the doubt here, but the frequency of companies being caught is dumbfounding. Is this an honest mistake that every company makes from time to time? Or is this a strategic play to temporarily improve performance and sell more vehicles until they get caught?
@@ALMX5DP Absolutely. The manufacturer has had plenty of time to address customer concerns regarding this issue. Imagine having a dealership lot full of trucks that you cannot sell, and a customer base with valid questions/concerns and no information to share. This is unacceptable, and looks like demand destruction to me.
The regulations are designed to kill diesel engines. The epa wants them gone.
We have given away our rights and freedoms.
Where in the bill of rights is there a right to pollute and corporatations to cheat the system? lol
Right to hurt others with ignorance? 🤔
How is cheating the public a loss of rights? Why are you pissed at our common interest and not getting scammed with lies?
Yes unfortunately it's true
@@chandleredwards How is having a diesel hurting others? It's ignorant crap like believing that the EPA is looking OUT for us that causes the disconnect and makes people like YOU willing slaves to government overreach. Fact is a diesel works BEST when ALL emmisions is removed. MPG goes UP, EGT's go down and when tuned properly THEY DONT SMOKE. Stop falling for th BS talking points.
Go to a free state and delete all emissions crap ...
On your before and after recall test, you should also put it on a dyno and look at the HP and Torque numbers 👍
Thanks for this information Guys.
This is our penance for those among us who felt rolling coal was a good idea.
Hook your truck up to a "sniffer" and get some #'s all through the power band hot cold ect. Would love to see what that 1.7 b fine paid for. Hp,milage and def usage test is not enough! Show the world how so called "dirty" diesel is vs gas. Your welcome for the content video idea!
I had my 2018 2500. I've already had mine done. And I haven't noticed any difference. Not like my Ecodiesel that I had previously. So now I've been through it twice.
I took my 2017 in for a transmission service on Dec 20. I was told there was a recall they had to do before I could get it back. It took them 8 hours to get the reflash right because it kept throwing codes. I have found that I am using 50-60% more def over a set route and load than before. I wonder if I was on the leading edge of this stuff. Power seems to be the same.
I refuse to take my truck back to the dealership for the recal.
You don’t have to, you can park the truck. They look beautiful, parked.
@@KravinMoorehed I'm glad I don't live in a hippie state that requires emission checks. So I shouldn't have any problems.
@@tyler87kelleyThe clean air act and EPA jurisdiction covers all 50 states, boomer.
Lots of new farm trucks 🙈
I keep forgetting to buy a farm..
@@tikkin11buying a farm might be cheaper than buying a new truck!😂
Need a before and after Ike max tow test, just the uphill. Maybe an average of 3 runs, since truck won’t be using much DEF.
To support the "already happening" details. On Dec 23, 2023, I had the DEF pump replaced in my 2014 Ram 3500 in Minnesota. At the same time they did several other recalls. (tail gate, drag link, interlock) and a PCM software flash to the latest version. (engine calibration). It was mentioned during discussion it was to update to meet California requirements, but it doesn't say it on the my receipt. When I search my VIN on the Mopar recall site, it says that 67A recall was completed. The truck still drives like before (subjective judgement, no quantitative test), but it does seem like i am burning a lot more DEF based on DEF gauge movement, but the whole level sensor/pump/heater assembly was replaced so this assessment is also very subjective (The gauge wasn't accurate before, but moved very slowly). I do remember hearing recent online chatter about newer ('23) trucks consuming very high rates of DEF on road trips while towing (5-10x more DEF than my truck or my fathers '19 F350 dually).
Real big problems about to happen for those who have already deleted their trucks now that their truck is being recalled. Better be prepared to say you hit a huge pothole and the parts fell off. Glad I’m not part of this fiasco!! 😮. I teach Diesel Tech and this discussion always comes up in shop class. It’s all legal until you get caught. This sounds like Cali is cracking down on those who have already deleted their trucks by going through the back door. How can the dealer possibly download software to reprogram a system that no exists? Will the dealer be required by the state to inform them that your truck is no longer in compliance? Will the state now void your registration and force you to re install the emissions system or scrap the truck? It has been done in the state of New Jersey. Just saying
Only for those living in states that require the recall for registration purposes, and if they're already living in those states they knew full well about ongoing emissions testing requirements so hopefully they can replace those components for those such instances or this recall.
@@ALMX5DP New York always follows California so I would bet it is coming here !!
@@anthonygreco1130 It think quite a few states operate by CARB type requirements. New York is one of them I believe and already has annual or biannual emissions testing.
@@ALMX5DP We are annual here in NY
😂or just don't anything but drive your vehicle. F*CK EM. If you still live in California what are you waiting on to fix thattt issue
EPA has way to much power…and I’m sick and tired of California dictating what the rest of the country can and can’t do
The 2013 - 2018 Truck are the ones Presently being affected with this 67A Recall.
So why don't you begin your testing with one of those model years truck now? It would me most helpful for your viewers who are being forced to have the recall done before registration. Measure the EGR being put into the Engine Before and After the Recall is performed!!
It may be a long time before they get around to Mailing You a Recall Notice for Your 2022
Well, I got the recall notice in on my 2018 Ram 2500 with the 6.7 L. // I'll definitely be watching future videos TFL. // Curious, after yall do all your testing, If performance goes down, I wonder if that catalyst from Pittsburgh Power or any product from Hot Shots Secret would make any difference. 😮
Will RAM compensate owners if the truck doesn't meet the advertised specs after being "fixed" ?
Not voluntarily. If it’s anything like VW was, expect a class action lawsuit soon enough
I'd be more concerned about long-term reliability, longevity, and fuel and DEF consumption after the "fix". You can't just sue for that.
Advertised specs shouldn't be affected as Ram was not party to the defeat program, unless Cummins lied to them and gave them specs that didn't include meeting emissions, in which case Cummins would condemn themselves as far as "intent" is concerned.
If Ram knew in 2019 something was wrong then yeh I feel they mislead us the consumer.
@@ronaldrussell5481 And Cummins did condemn themselves, effectively, by agreeing to pay the fine. If I bought a truck from Ram, my deal is with Ram, not Cummins. Ram has an obligtion to me, and Ram has to deal with Cummins because they made that deal.
Same thing happened with the EcoDiesels a few years ago. You just go get it fixed - not a big deal.
LOL
My work truck had this reflash performed last week. I’ve noticed less power and a greater fuel consumption. Our job sites, where I would use an 1/8 of a tank, it’s now using more that 1/4 tank. It’ll be interesting on Monday when I have to drive over 300 miles to another site.
I would be curious how you guys make out with the before and after. I got the letter on my 13 and just ignored it. Also curious on the def consumption and mpg changes although I do agree with everyone about the dyno. 3 runs pre and after update averaged out will be best bet on power ratings I'm betting a drop in power.
You know what pollutes exponentially more than a diesel truck? A jet flying a politician to a climate change conference.
Just sayin………
Or a container ship full of shit from china
Also I still find the lack of data provided by the government on why Cummins violated the rules extremely concerning since I don’t trust the government unless they give concrete data. So I am going to continue to not trust them without any evidence
As with all settlements, such information does not have to be provided. Cummins could do so if they so choose, but I suspect it wont be in their best interest to do so (hence why agreeing to the settlement in the first place).
@@ALMX5DP I think part of it is they probably because it would be cheaper to fix the trucks then try to go on a long lawsuit battle against the EPA, which will probably have Cummins lose that I think is a reason why they did what they did since it’s kind of difficult to go up against the government like that
Also currently because the government has no data on it it looks like the EPA is just doing whatever they want because they feel like it with no reason just because they want to or there’s an agenda. But that is what it looks like right now but if they give data then it would maybe justify the EPA’s Actions but since they didn’t put anything out, it doesn’t look good for the EPA
@@crushbaseball4270 if they have the data truly showing the engine was compliant, I cannot see any reason why Cummins would agree to a plea deal. By them agreeing and actually implementing a "fix" is pretty evident that their engines were not in compliance. The EPA likely has the data Cummins provided as well as data they've gathered on their own during their investigation. Of course the EPA is bound by the stipulations in the agreement so they cannot release the data likely without Cummins say-so.
What the EPA threatens to do is pull production certification from companies that try to fight them. They literally say either comply without questioning us or we'll just bankrupt you due to lack of revenue.
I did receive the recall for my 2017 Ram 2500. I did have it completed and have not noticed any issues. Texas.
Thanks for being honest.
I have a 2022, 3500 dually with a HO Cummins. I live in Canada, so not sure when I'll be seeing this recall. But I am already waiting for 2 previous recalls, with parts shortages. One recall is for a diesel particulate sensor in the exhaust (it is going into Regen every 200km now), the second is for the heater grid relay, so it doesn't catch fire sitting in my driveway next to my garage. An emission software update, is not a big concern. I am a computer programmer, and I write aerospace software for a living. If they say it takes an hour, you can bet the software update will take about 1/2 hour. The rest is a buffer to get the truck in and out. I have a feeling, this won't effect the performance of the truck much if any. My tailpipe is still snow white! If it was spewing any Diesel particulates into the air, the tail pipe would be black! And like I said earlier, my truck is regenning every 200km now. Interested to see what the outcome of your tests will be.
Sold my Jeep 2014 eco diesel. I did the recall notice with a software update and it caused nothing but trouble with it. Limp mode, regen problems, exhaust issues the list goes on and on. Feel bad for ram owners as this is their future. Never buying FCA product again. My jeep was an amazing truck until this software update....
Just wait till the reprogram is done and your power level is down a ton
If that were the case, RAM would be opening themselves up for a pretty heft class action lawsuit on top of all of this.
Ford and GM make way more power and are compliant. As far as we know.
You guys should absolutely try to get Dyno numbers before and after.
5/6/2024 ~ KarMART Ram in Mt Vernon WA, just attempted to talk me out of the doing the emissions recall work on my Cummins 6.7L. Service writer said it will hurt my fuel mileage. He also said the State of WA does not know if a truck has been fixed or not. I told him I want it done. Had an 8:00am appt. Got there at 7:30am. Made me wait until 10:30am to leave.