Guys had mine done without knowing about this cummins deal. Truck went from getting very close to 18 unloaded now 15, towing my 38 foot fifth wheel 12 to 12.8 and now its at 8 mpg with loss of power. I am going through def every 250 gallons im losing 2.5 gallons of def. People saying nothing was compromised have know idea what they are talking about. I am a master certified ASE tech for 25 years and own my own shop. Dont take your truck in.
2015 Ram 3500 here. Nearing 400k miles. This has been stock always. It was a hotshot truck until I bought it 2019. I refused to delete it (even suffered through problems) because I figured they are after us.
I'm not buying it. Why would Cummins risk $1.6B for a DEF gauge calibration? There's a lot more to this story. I think you're on to something with this "Whose deleted" thing. I also worry about other things; like ERG. Supposedly, the 13-18 trucks don't require EGR maintenance, which is very expensive. Will this recall change that? I have the stock tune in my truck. The only thing I deleted was the grid heater. There is no way I will ever take my truck back to a dealership until SOMEBODY, be it Ram, Cummins or the EPA, is more transparent about what this recall does and the long-term effects of it. I own my truck outright. It's paid for and I hold the title. I also fund the EPA with my tax dollars. They owe me a more detailed explanation.
It’s a NOx sensor calibration, nothing more. The 2019 trucks were already flashed as part of the VB6 recall released back in August of 2020. The 2020 and newer trucks already have the updated sensor software mapping from the factory. The Cummins / EPA investigation has been going on for 5 years now. No changes to the engine controller the horsepower / torque.
Just cause you have the title don't mean squat...... I put off VW on my TDI jetta for 2 years then they pulled the no registration till you do card.......your title only means you don't have any more payments.....THAT IS IT.
@@EDMguy8870 The point is, that I have a right to know what the government wants to do with MY vehicle. I also live in a state where emissions is emissions and registration is registration. There won't be a problem.
Same. I had them do the recall on my 2018 and it is definately using more DEF. I work for Ram and this recall is nothing like the eco diesel reflash. Crossing fingers nothing else comes up but so far, just more DEF.
Funny that you say that about the DEF. I had the recall done about a month ago and I drive about 20 miles per day and just noticed today that my DEF gauge was at half and I just had it at almost full. I'll have to keep an eye on it. 🤔
The only reason the def gauge would drop faster would be because the update has increased the def dosing parameters to reduce nox. The derate parameters for def level in the tank has always been there. At a certain level it gives you a warning as you go past the level the warnings increase i.e. cel then on empty its derate time. It's never been designed to let you run further and pollute more complete opposite. So if what you saying about the increase in def usage is true then part of the update is a change in def dosing parameters and probably some changes in fueling parameters, vgt parameters and egr flow parameters. They only ones that are going to know exactly is cummins, will the driver know the difference, most probably not a few maybe. As far as ecm's being locked out never happen but going forward its going to be a lot more difficult for the aftermarket to develop tuners. Safe guards are probably being written into the future updates that will put the ecm into derate if tune is trying to be installed requiring the owner to take it to a dealer for a hefty repair bill to deter anyone from doing so. As far as collecting data on the number of trucks that have been deleted I really don't think they're wasting time on that. Cummins don't care and if the fed really wants to get rid of deleted trucks all the have to do is require all oil burners to go through emissions testing nation wide yearly and to have certified tamper proof ATS systems. This recall is just another shake down by the fed, remember the fed is the biggest criminal organization period.
Maybe I misunderstood him, but the way I understood him, the " increase" in DEF usage is an "apparent increase " not a real one. The guage goes down quicker even though you're using the same amount. The effect would be the lockouts occur earlier forcing you refill sooner.
@@wilmarbarrick3194 Just install a larger def tank. Derates are still going to happen at the same level. The idea that programming a gauge to make a person think they are going through more def than they actually are is just asking for trouble and that definitely won't do anything to reduce nox. If I had a cummins and the gauge didn't read right I'd keep sending it back to the dealer till it was right or make them buy it back.
I think its disgraceful what the government and EPA has done to a once reliable, good running diesel vehicle for the American consumer. Now these things are unreliable, ridiculously expensive to maintain and not worth the trouble of owning one in my opinion.
I have a 2020 2500 it has 24K on it now. It had a fuel pump recall on it at 10K the stealership put on a new CP3 and reflashed PCM. The only mods to it are the Banks Monster Ram to get rid of that grid heater ticking time bomb. I do all the mantainance my self the only thing I'm guilty of is that I change the oil a little sooer than needed. I pull a 12K fifth wheel trailer. This truck runs GREAT!! The PCM recall was done when they put the new pump on and it actually runs better. I average 18 to 21 on the Highway and around 15 in the City without the trailer. I hope this helps anyone who has any concerns. Just remember don't Dodge it Ram it... Y'all have a good one.
If this is all about the EPA trying to find out who has a deleted truck, then why are they only going after Cummins? There are tons of deleted Fords and GMs on the road. Maybe they’re next? I’d never get this recall. If the EPA wants these trucks off the road they better use that 2B to buy them back from private citizens.
How'bout an ABS brake module recall for the thousands of Ram 2017-2018 2500/3500 trucks. Owners are putting up with the constant dashboard chime, until they pull the fuse?!
For sure! We have replaced a bunch in our shop. And safety related like that it’s a good idea. They recalled weak fuel pumps on 200k mile caravans. Why not these?
And I’ve had the light come on saying service diesel exhaust system twice for some reason when I took it to the dealer they could not find the code and I had shown them a pice of that coming on
GM recalled my truck two years ago to reset the emissions. Same result, the thing regens like crazy and I go through DEF fluid about a third more than I used to. They were honest about it though and told me what the recall was for. Would I do it again? No.
So I had a new 96 F350 crew cab powerstroke. It was ran on the test track at Ford. 50 miles. When I got it my mileage increased by 1 mpg Every tank of fuel. It would also light up the tires (smoke them) at about 3/4 throttle. Pulling a skidsteer was almost like it didn't exist behind me. My fuel pump or pressure regulator (mechanic said regulator, Supervisor said pump, started acting up after owning it a couple months. When I got in to leave I noticed a drastic change in throttle response before I even got out of the parking lot (huge difference). It was a dog ! I turned right around, went in and asked wth they did to it ? Then told them to put it back the way it was ! "We can't do that". I was told. Well my mpg also dropped to 14 ! Note: I had 3:55 gears. I tried several after market tuners but none did to it what that test drive did to it ! I could get performance increase but not like it was when I bought it. Even the claims of 70 and 100hp increase. And my mileage was never the same.
My thoughts after reading comments and watching video. I'm in Cali and I am not having it completed. 2018 3500 w/ only 36000 miles and I will never take it to a dealership. Luckily San Diego is one of a few cities in CA that does not require this recall.
Thanks, very interesting. I had a VW diesel and a Mercedes recalled. I made out pretty good on both. Now I own a Wrangler and Gladiator both Ecodiesels. I'm hoping they just leave them alone and let me enjoy them. Tons of power, great fuel mileage. Really cool you guys make it easy to find your content. I get you on your Facebook Page, Podcasts and here. Also own a T-shirt. Thanks!
That would be an easy one for one of our listeners to check if they use a meter on it both before and after. We graph that kind of stuff in our shop all the time.
@@UnderTheHoodShow if this ends up being the case and the EGR is adding even more black sooty sludge into my intake - I will probably end up selling my 2017 w/30K miles! I can only hope living in Oklahoma is a plus on this matter .
I saw somewhere on here one Ram cummins owner track the egr duty cycle and this was some time back. He reported that even at idle the egr was running around 60% and the same at highway speeds. That is sickening how much exhaust is contaminating the fresh air/fuel charge. It also explains why the fuel economy is dismal.
Had my fuel filter replaced 2 weeks ago, I turned down that recall. I have no emissions in my county in Pennsylvania and would like to delete eventually.
I drive a 2017 Cummins Ram 3500. I just drove 3000 miles from Quebec to Arizona towing a 6500 lb cargo trailer to RV conversion. I use Platinum DEF. Average mpg for the entire trip was 13.4 mpg, and I used one 2.5 gallon box of Platinum DEF every 1400 miles. I haven't really noticed any change with the flashing, which was done last year and 10,000 miles ago.
I had the particulate mater sensor done on my 22 ram 6.7 recently they flashed the ecm all ive noticed is im burning more def than i was before it fuel mileage is the same .
It would be great, and make sense if they were required to tell you exactly what they are doing when they work on our trucks. Otherwise no one knows what’s done. Like FDA for trucks. Tell us what’s in it and what the “side effects are.
I have a 2020, RAM, 3500, it is not included in the recall, it only affects 2013-2019, trucks, if you have a 2020 and newer it currently is not effected . Diesel Dudes has a DELETE for every year 2024 and older, free shipping W/ a 25$ customs fee from Canada
It seems like the epa wanted to know how many deleted trucks are out there. I wonder why they picked on just ram? Is it because the design of the computer and leaving it open for deletes? Is Ford and Chevy next? I guess we will see. What I like about Russ is, he is doing the research and telling us facts and not overly speculative.
@@theantiqueactionfigure we have not seen one. We get a good feel for what fixes are out there between our shop and our radio show. If we see updates we will post them.
The Def gauge is now programed to move quicker so let us know what the actual def use is. Not just the gauge reading. It will be interesting to know.Thanks for watching.
The recall is putting the truck to the point where it will use more DEF (active and passive) to "scrub" the emission. Dodge boys always boast to me that there '19 Cummnis doesn't use as much DEF as my '19 Powerstroke. Now they are using about the same I amount I use.
All they did was make sure the computer was set at factory spec and locked it. That way guys can't reprogram the computer and delete it. But people will find a way around the locked computer.
I bought a used 2016 and went to have the recall done. They asked if it ever had a tune and because I couldn't tell them they refused to flash it. How can I find out it it has ever been tuned?
@@frankgossett3488 if you scan it you should be able to tell. Depending on the scanner you have. The funny thing is… if they reflash it, it would erase an aftermarket tune. Of some parts have been deleted though, it may render it non drivable and that is probably why they won’t flash it.
I have 2021 2500 and I have the check engine light on and I but the truck use with 51245 00 miles on and they not fixed the problem yet is going back for
I haven't heard anything about the year models from '07 to '12. Sounds like it's only affecting the models with the DEF system. I'm sure they'll find a way to go after the pre-DEF trucks as well.
2018 2500 , took my truck in for warranty work on the coolant level sensor. I knew about the recall when I brought my truck into dealership. I've owned the truck for a little over a yr. When I brought it miles was at 50,000 , currently 92,903. I use my truck commercially. I never had a message come up until I took it to dealer. See dealer message came up about exhaust filter and the check engine light also came on. I was 2 hrs away from home, I made it home with the message coming up see dealer exhaust filter. I don't drive the truck for a couple days, when I do the check engine light went off and the message went away. I know for sure the issue stems from the software update. I can hear my fans coming on now with the truck barely getting to running temp. With a month wait to get into dealership for a forced Regen, then I get a letter from a salesman at dealer saying they want to buy the truck for more than market value. I don't think I'll be back ✌️
Being a fleet mechanic for the past 30 plus years and recently I am starting a training course on the PACCAR mx13 engine which CUMMINS makes the Use of def is 1-2 Gallons of DEF to 50 gallons of fuel. So yes they are re flashing the ECM so to use more def. I’m not sure what the ratio is now on the current 6.7 before the Re flash and what the new ratio will be.
Sorry I stand corrected PACCAR engines are designed and manufactured in-house, while Cummins engines are built by a separate company. As a result, PACCAR engines are typically only used in PACCAR trucks, while Cummins are used in a variety of different truck brands. In terms of performance, both engines have their strengths and weaknesses. PACCAR engines are known for their durability and fuel efficiency, while Cummins engines are known for their power and reliability. Ultimately, the decision between these engines will depend on the specific needs and preferences of the truck owner.
It sounds to me like they’re forcing it into regen more often (hence, burning more DEF) AND modified the program to force the truck into “idle mode” if you fail to refill your DEF tank before it’s empty.
I have been curious if this was because the early ECMs weren't locked out, as well as if they were trying to get a list of deleted vehicles. It would be pretty easy to compare a list of VINs that had the recall done to a list of registered VINs. Also, if your truck is deleted, why would you even attempt going in for a recall?
In states without inspection laws and where they don't yet care if you the truck is deleted in order to get a registration most won't get flashed. But... if you are in states like California and a bunch of others that do... You won't be able to register that truck ever if you don't comply. Their way of control.
@UnderTheHoodShow What I mean about the registered part is if the EPA wants to perform a witch hunt, they could run the registered VINs against the recall performed VINs and start knocking on doors. Since it's illegal at a federal level to delete.
I don't like feeling like there is a conspiracy afoot. Yet, in this case, I can't help but feel this way. I own a 2018 2500. It is stock, other than wheels and shocks i left it alone. I wrestled with the delete or not and opted to keep it stock. I had the update at the dealer that sold me the truck, and so far, 3 weeks after the truck runs the same. I have lost 1 mpg, and DEF usage is only slightly more than before the update. As far as a conspiracy? There is a clear trail of the "gov" tracking credit card purchases, monitoring internet sites, and those sites' customers. 11 years in the odds are in the epas' favor they will find a percentage of these trucks deleted. The picture emerging is ultimately the ".gov" is pushing an anti diesel agenda. Doesn't it seem odd? When i read the numbers 630,000 trucks over a ten year period? What is the percentage of the total number of diesel-powered vehicles in America? So, was this in the end all an excuse for the epa/doj to find deleted trucks?
Clearly the recall recalibrate the def system tobregen more often to use more def per tank of fuel.... and it will now remove power if you run out of def and will take a shop to reset the power
i never will do this update .. i have a ghost tune def/egr detete.. buddy works at a Ram dealer said it was to find out what people did tunes on trucks and to use more def fuel per tank and to lock computers out from being tuned again
Your description of the DEF change didn't make sense. Are you saying that the gauge drops faster but the truck isn't using more DEF? And you said that you used to be able to run them out of DEF and just keep driving and polluting more, but we know that's not true.
One of the things that they have done is to make the def gauge drop to empty faster so that the truck warns you to fill with def sooner because the way it was, you could read more than 1/8 tank but actually be empty causing more pollution.
I have a 2018 2500 6.7 , I just did the 67a recall . The next day the engine light turns on . I live in California the truck is totally stock . My truck has been in the shop for three days and still no answer on what’s wrong. They said maybe a bent rod . The error code was p0306 .
Mine did the same thing, the dealer said that they couldn’t really find anything wrong and chalked it up to loose injector wires. They retighten them . Fifty miles later the light comes back on . After several days they found a broken valve spring and a bent valve on #6 . They replaced the entire head, it took about a month to get my truck back.
Funny it took so many years for them to do anything about this if it was so important but hammered VW so quickly and told us exactly what the fault was.
You do know, all the dealers have to do is the paperwork and bill chrysler for the recall. That puts your vin in the computer as being done, iv had recalls done in the computer that iv refused in the past
This just adds more confusion about what the effect of the Flash is, here you say they reprogrammed the DEF gauge, other Tubers are saying the truck is using way more DEF that it did before the Flash was done. So until somebody like Gale Banks that really knows what their doing and has the engineers to identify the effect it will all be speculation.
Using more Def. We must not have been clear in the description. They reprogrammed the gauge so that it drops faster. That makes it look like it’s using more def. People that measure the gallons they put in and divide using miles have told us that they are using the same amount. But… the gauge drops faster so that when the tank is close to empty it limits the truck. Before it would run out and still read that it had def which would cause higher emissions. Our own 2014 truck read 1/4 tank empty. Thanks for watching.
For over 15 years, I’ve been heavily involved with the German diesel emissions mess. Finally the EPA and DOJ have finally gotten around to domestic diesels. First and foremost, modern diesel emissions will legally operate properly and reliably, if you understand how the system actually operates. This is not as simple as you might think. There’s plenty of blame to go around. The EPA and CARB have known the designs they mandated and approved, would not actually work in the real world where consumers wouldn’t do the proper maintenance, and manufacturers weren’t about to explain how much maintenance really is required. The EPA ties the manufacturers hands with well meaning but unrealistic regulations. The manufacturers are forced to comply with the fuel efficiency and tailpipe emissions or pay outrageous penalties. This is a VERY simplified explanation. The problem’s actually start when the engine is new. In order to protect the emissions system, engines no longer use Break-in oil when new. The piston rings don’t properly seat with the cylinder walls and many engines have a blow-by problem within the first 1,000 miles. In order to meet fuel economy standards and protect the DPF, manufacturers tell owners to use engine oil that won’t stand up to the heat in the engine. Oil companies make up wild claims about the quality of their oil. The operating thermal window for modern diesel’s is very narrow. To cold and soot clogs the DPF and EGR. To hot, and the NOx emissions go to high. The recall is using more DEF because Cummings had to increase the combustion temperature. That increases the NOx, which means more DEF. Always keep the DEF tank full. The hotter the combustion temperature, the harder it is on the oil. The older API CF Diesel oil is actually better for your engine. For hot weather, towing, or driving in the mountains, Amsoil 20w/50 Dominator diesel oil is excellent. Change every 5k. The CCV filter is very important and should be changed every 30k. If it’s soaking in oil, you have excessive blow-by. The CCV filter should be replaced whenever the EGR valve is dirty. Dirty air filters cause oil consumption and clog the EGR. Replace the air filter every 20k. Fuel pumps fail because of ultra low sulfur diesel fuel, or small amounts of gas somehow gets into the fuel. Sulfur is the lubricant in diesel fuel. Gas has no lubricant. When the fuel can’t properly lubricate the pump, the pistons in the pump fail and throws metal into the fuel injection system. Marvel Mystery oil in the fuel adds sulfur to the fuel and lubricates the pump. I know the bottle says you can’t use it in modern diesels. Use one quart in a tank of fuel. I can hear the howling now. I’ve seen the internal documents from manufacturers. They know it works, but can’t say so. This is only the tip of the iceberg of information about modern diesels. Deleting the system is not the answer.
To me, it would seem that there are two facets to the recall. One you use more def. Secondly, the software has been updated so that you can't delete your truck the way they have been deleting them in the past. I would speculate that the def consumption is something that was discovered by the EPA during the investigation. There was absolutely nothing for Cummins to gain by manipulating the amount of DEF these trucks used. 10-12 years ago, Def was just being mandated. It was/is viewed as a consumable that was mandated by the EPA that the end user would have to provide regardless of the rate of consumption. I think the bigger focus of the EPA is on eliminating the work around that allows one to delete the truck in the first place. So why did they limit their scope to just Rams with Cummins? My speculation for this would be the EPA must have some type of incriminating evidence on them (think email from Cummins to an outside vendor) stating that they (Cummins) intentionally designed the software to allow for the deletes. Why else would they accept the ridiculous fine? For those not taking their truck in (i am one of them) for the recall. Just be vigilant! I could see ram rolling out a secondary recall (something un-related) and claiming it is a potential safety hazard (think air bag recall) just so you lower your guard and take your truck in for that. They will use that opportunity to do the emissions update and claim, your vehicle did not have the faulty part for the bogus recall.
The biggest advantage of diesel was 100% mechanical which results in great reliability. Once they went to common rail, you bought all the electronics problems that gas burners have.
Thanks! Nice Job helping us understand what's going on. Also thanks for saying Hypothesis instead of Theory. I know it sounds anal, but funny how some don't like to use facts, instead assumptions are used to explain things.
We can assume with the best of them but usually make those assumptions based on the huge piles of emails and calls we get. We can usually sort out the BS and figure out what's real. Thanks for watching.
My 2016 is bone stock and in my opinion uses a lot of DEF....Im doubtful I'll take it in .....theres a lot more to all this than they're telling us. Give me a big check and I'll give it back.
I know they are cracking down but they are getting carried away. I mean its not quite like the death penalty but close, Probably less punishment for robbing a bank or don't get me started on ID theft and when bank account gets hacked.
This was set up to find out who deleted their trucks. The EPA and Cummins had been working with each other the past four years. The EPA needed money to pay for one of their projects in exchange, Cummins was able to keep its military contract.
I believe that they programmed it to use more DEF fluid, also possibly put a lock in the computer so you can’t tune them two birds, one stone that’s most likely what the EPA wanted done because of the possibility that so many comments owners have them tuned, possibly
I think no one should go in for this recall. We need leverage and we all should stand together. Forceing us to do something by not renewing our insurance is called blackmail, identical to the vaccine and mask mandate. If want to delete our engine it should be our choice. If we don't fight for our rights we have lost already.
All vehicles should not have any Emmons they are doing the same thing to semis they don't run good since they have done this I have been running semis for 43 years tks Dave
You do not have to get a recall performed in states that do not do emissions testing, In states where emission tests are performed may be a problem though.
It amazes us how many people we know in our state which does not test for emissions have gone in and had the recall done. They are just lining up and doing it.
Oh man you can’t believe. That and trying not to burp into the microphone are the two hardest things in radio (: Currently it’s 2013-2018 Thanks for watching.
Sounds to me like they used the DEF thing as a technical excuse to make people bring them in. The only ‘emissions defeat device built in’ seems to be that the computer can be tuned to run without the crap. Since I have to pass emissions, all that is there there, but I still am leery . In all honesty I’ll probably just ignore the recall since no one’s forcing me to.
I was getting 22 to 24 miles a gallon before the recall now I’m getting 18 to 19 plus miles. My truck runs sluggish and no bunch. I have believed the government had large hand on this recall because EV man dates.
Guys had mine done without knowing about this cummins deal. Truck went from getting very close to 18 unloaded now 15, towing my 38 foot fifth wheel 12 to 12.8 and now its at 8 mpg with loss of power. I am going through def every 250 gallons im losing 2.5 gallons of def. People saying nothing was compromised have know idea what they are talking about. I am a master certified ASE tech for 25 years and own my own shop. Dont take your truck in.
2015 Ram 3500 here. Nearing 400k miles. This has been stock always. It was a hotshot truck until I bought it 2019. I refused to delete it (even suffered through problems) because I figured they are after us.
Thanks for watching and commenting.
I'm not buying it. Why would Cummins risk $1.6B for a DEF gauge calibration? There's a lot more to this story. I think you're on to something with this "Whose deleted" thing. I also worry about other things; like ERG. Supposedly, the 13-18 trucks don't require EGR maintenance, which is very expensive. Will this recall change that? I have the stock tune in my truck. The only thing I deleted was the grid heater. There is no way I will ever take my truck back to a dealership until SOMEBODY, be it Ram, Cummins or the EPA, is more transparent about what this recall does and the long-term effects of it. I own my truck outright. It's paid for and I hold the title. I also fund the EPA with my tax dollars. They owe me a more detailed explanation.
You may own it but that doesn't mean you can run it on the roads.
It’s a NOx sensor calibration, nothing more. The 2019 trucks were already flashed as part of the VB6 recall released back in August of 2020. The 2020 and newer trucks already have the updated sensor software mapping from the factory. The Cummins / EPA investigation has been going on for 5 years now. No changes to the engine controller the horsepower / torque.
Just cause you have the title don't mean squat...... I put off VW on my TDI jetta for 2 years then they pulled the no registration till you do card.......your title only means you don't have any more payments.....THAT IS IT.
@@EDMguy8870 The point is, that I have a right to know what the government wants to do with MY vehicle. I also live in a state where emissions is emissions and registration is registration. There won't be a problem.
Put down the tin foil hat. No conspiracy to look for people who may have deleted or lock down the ECM.
My dealer mechanic told me it is a way to force people in to find out who has deleted trucks.
Thanks for watching
I had the recall done. The only thing Ive noticed different, is higher DEF consumption.
Thanks for watching.
Same. I had them do the recall on my 2018 and it is definately using more DEF. I work for Ram and this recall is nothing like the eco diesel reflash. Crossing fingers nothing else comes up but so far, just more DEF.
Funny that you say that about the DEF. I had the recall done about a month ago and I drive about 20 miles per day and just noticed today that my DEF gauge was at half and I just had it at almost full. I'll have to keep an eye on it. 🤔
The only reason the def gauge would drop faster would be because the update has increased the def dosing parameters to reduce nox. The derate parameters for def level in the tank has always been there. At a certain level it gives you a warning as you go past the level the warnings increase i.e. cel then on empty its derate time. It's never been designed to let you run further and pollute more complete opposite. So if what you saying about the increase in def usage is true then part of the update is a change in def dosing parameters and probably some changes in fueling parameters, vgt parameters and egr flow parameters. They only ones that are going to know exactly is cummins, will the driver know the difference, most probably not a few maybe. As far as ecm's being locked out never happen but going forward its going to be a lot more difficult for the aftermarket to develop tuners. Safe guards are probably being written into the future updates that will put the ecm into derate if tune is trying to be installed requiring the owner to take it to a dealer for a hefty repair bill to deter anyone from doing so. As far as collecting data on the number of trucks that have been deleted I really don't think they're wasting time on that. Cummins don't care and if the fed really wants to get rid of deleted trucks all the have to do is require all oil burners to go through emissions testing nation wide yearly and to have certified tamper proof ATS systems. This recall is just another shake down by the fed, remember the fed is the biggest criminal organization period.
Maybe I misunderstood him, but the way I understood him, the " increase" in DEF usage is an "apparent increase " not a real one. The guage goes down quicker even though you're using the same amount. The effect would be the lockouts occur earlier forcing you refill sooner.
@@wilmarbarrick3194 Just install a larger def tank. Derates are still going to happen at the same level. The idea that programming a gauge to make a person think they are going through more def than they actually are is just asking for trouble and that definitely won't do anything to reduce nox. If I had a cummins and the gauge didn't read right I'd keep sending it back to the dealer till it was right or make them buy it back.
Thanks for watching
I hate that I can't watch you guys more often, but I rely on your podcast to get me through Houston traffic. Outstanding job guys.
Thank you!
Makes me love my 12 valve all that much more, these new diesel’s are not worth the hassle or the money they cost.
Trust the Government? Remember what they did with covid?
And the Indians. I'm part cherokee
@@bigfoot2941 100% correct. My wife is 1/8th Cherokee.
I think its disgraceful what the government and EPA has done to a once reliable, good running diesel vehicle for the American consumer. Now these things are unreliable, ridiculously expensive to maintain and not worth the trouble of owning one in my opinion.
Thanks for watching.
Unfortunately I cannot pull my fifth wheel with a Prius, so I have to have the diesel.
Yeah, who wants more natural beauty in trees, and cleaner air....
I have a 2020 2500 it has 24K on it now. It had a fuel pump recall on it at 10K the stealership put on a new CP3 and reflashed PCM. The only mods to it are the Banks Monster Ram to get rid of that grid heater ticking time bomb. I do all the mantainance my self the only thing I'm guilty of is that I change the oil a little sooer than needed. I pull a 12K fifth wheel trailer. This truck runs GREAT!! The PCM recall was done when they put the new pump on and it actually runs better. I average 18 to 21 on the Highway and around 15 in the City without the trailer. I hope this helps anyone who has any concerns. Just remember don't Dodge it Ram it... Y'all have a good one.
Thanks for watching.
We need a class action lawsuit against the government, Cummins, and Ram.
this. this right here
If this is all about the EPA trying to find out who has a deleted truck, then why are they only going after Cummins? There are tons of deleted Fords and GMs on the road. Maybe they’re next?
I’d never get this recall. If the EPA wants these trucks off the road they better use that 2B to buy them back from private citizens.
Thanks for watching.
100% checking deletes
How'bout an ABS brake module recall for the thousands of Ram 2017-2018 2500/3500 trucks. Owners are putting up with the constant dashboard chime, until they pull the fuse?!
For sure! We have replaced a bunch in our shop. And safety related like that it’s a good idea. They recalled weak fuel pumps on 200k mile caravans. Why not these?
And I’ve had the light come on saying service diesel exhaust system twice for some reason when I took it to the dealer they could not find the code and I had shown them a pice of that coming on
Yes, and it also disables the cruise control
I did the same thing, now my light is just always on
What is the fix? Replacing the ABS control module?
I have a 2019 Ram 3500 dually and just received my recall VB6, 67A in the mail today. Washington State.
Thanks for watching
GM recalled my truck two years ago to reset the emissions. Same result, the thing regens like crazy and I go through DEF fluid about a third more than I used to. They were honest about it though and told me what the recall was for. Would I do it again? No.
So I had a new 96 F350 crew cab powerstroke. It was ran on the test track at Ford. 50 miles. When I got it my mileage increased by 1 mpg Every tank of fuel. It would also light up the tires (smoke them) at about 3/4 throttle. Pulling a skidsteer was almost like it didn't exist behind me. My fuel pump or pressure regulator (mechanic said regulator, Supervisor said pump, started acting up after owning it a couple months. When I got in to leave I noticed a drastic change in throttle response before I even got out of the parking lot (huge difference). It was a dog ! I turned right around, went in and asked wth they did to it ? Then told them to put it back the way it was ! "We can't do that". I was told. Well my mpg also dropped to 14 ! Note: I had 3:55 gears. I tried several after market tuners but none did to it what that test drive did to it ! I could get performance increase but not like it was when I bought it. Even the claims of 70 and 100hp increase. And my mileage was never the same.
Thanks for watching and commenting.
Minwhile, military pickup trucks on US bases are factory deleted.
Yep
My thoughts after reading comments and watching video.
I'm in Cali and I am not having it completed. 2018 3500 w/ only 36000 miles and I will never take it to a dealership. Luckily San Diego is one of a few cities in CA that does not require this recall.
Thanks, very interesting. I had a VW diesel and a Mercedes recalled. I made out pretty good on both. Now I own a Wrangler and Gladiator both Ecodiesels. I'm hoping they just leave them alone and let me enjoy them. Tons of power, great fuel mileage. Really cool you guys make it easy to find your content. I get you on your Facebook Page, Podcasts and here. Also own a T-shirt. Thanks!
Thanks for sharing
Curious if the flash - increased the duty cycle of the EGR valve?
Putting more (Soot) - (Sludge) in the intake.
That would be an easy one for one of our listeners to check if they use a meter on it both before and after. We graph that kind of stuff in our shop all the time.
@@UnderTheHoodShow if this ends up being the case and the EGR is adding even more black sooty sludge into my intake - I will probably end up selling my 2017 w/30K miles!
I can only hope living in Oklahoma is a plus on this matter .
I saw somewhere on here one Ram cummins owner track the egr duty cycle and this was some time back. He reported that even at idle the egr was running around 60% and the same at highway speeds. That is sickening how much exhaust is contaminating the fresh air/fuel charge. It also explains why the fuel economy is dismal.
So glad we have a 12 pre def 🎉😂
The Price of DEF has gone up.. Now the EPA wants us to use more def... NOPE... im not doing it..
Had my fuel filter replaced 2 weeks ago, I turned down that recall. I have no emissions in my county in Pennsylvania and would like to delete eventually.
I drive a 2017 Cummins Ram 3500. I just drove 3000 miles from Quebec to Arizona towing a 6500 lb cargo trailer to RV conversion. I use Platinum DEF. Average mpg for the entire trip was 13.4 mpg, and I used one 2.5 gallon box of Platinum DEF every 1400 miles. I haven't really noticed any change with the flashing, which was done last year and 10,000 miles ago.
I had the particulate mater sensor done on my 22 ram 6.7 recently they flashed the ecm all ive noticed is im burning more def than i was before it fuel mileage is the same .
It would be great, and make sense if they were required to tell you exactly what they are doing when they work on our trucks. Otherwise no one knows what’s done. Like FDA for trucks. Tell us what’s in it and what the “side effects are.
I have a 2020, RAM, 3500, it is not included in the recall, it only affects 2013-2019, trucks, if you have a 2020 and newer it currently is not effected . Diesel Dudes has a DELETE for every year 2024 and older, free shipping W/ a 25$ customs fee from Canada
California will allow you to register it without the update. I just did it and got my tags.
It seems like the epa wanted to know how many deleted trucks are out there. I wonder why they picked on just ram? Is it because the design of the computer and leaving it open for deletes? Is Ford and Chevy next? I guess we will see.
What I like about Russ is, he is doing the research and telling us facts and not overly speculative.
Thanks for watching and commenting.
What are the before and after numbers?
My 2018 will not pass emissions after the recall. Fighting with the dealer and Ram!!!!!
We have seen a few like that.
If a vehicle won't pass smog in California it might as well be a brick!
@@UnderTheHoodShow is there solution to it?
@@theantiqueactionfigure we have not seen one. We get a good feel for what fixes are out there between our shop and our radio show. If we see updates we will post them.
I Just had mine done>No different in power and the DEF gauge looks the same.Will tell when i hook up my 40 foot fifth wheel this spring
The Def gauge is now programed to move quicker so let us know what the actual def use is. Not just the gauge reading. It will be interesting to know.Thanks for watching.
Why didn't they recall the grid heater for failing and destroying the engine?
The recall is putting the truck to the point where it will use more DEF (active and passive) to "scrub" the emission. Dodge boys always boast to me that there '19 Cummnis doesn't use as much DEF as my '19 Powerstroke. Now they are using about the same I amount I use.
Thanks for watching
All they did was make sure the computer was set at factory spec and locked it. That way guys can't reprogram the computer and delete it. But people will find a way around the locked computer.
Detuned truck also. Have a 2019 dodge ram 3500 with ho motor. On my scanner. It shows 850ftlbs now. Definitely felt a difference in towing.
I bought a used 2016 and went to have the recall done. They asked if it ever had a tune and because I couldn't tell them they refused to flash it. How can I find out it it has ever been tuned?
@@frankgossett3488 if you scan it you should be able to tell. Depending on the scanner you have. The funny thing is… if they reflash it, it would erase an aftermarket tune. Of some parts have been deleted though, it may render it non drivable and that is probably why they won’t flash it.
Maybe a good think if the particle filter stays cleans maybe less problems for us! Maybe?
I have 2021 2500 and I have the check engine light on and I but the truck use with 51245 00 miles on and they not fixed the problem yet is going back for
What years does this recall refer to?
Got mine done my def consumption went to almost double while hauling over30,000 pounds taking my truck to Canada lol
Oh my
I haven't heard anything about the year models from '07 to '12. Sounds like it's only affecting the models with the DEF system. I'm sure they'll find a way to go after the pre-DEF trucks as well.
Yes, just the Def models so far.
I was told in the near future pre def units won't get a tag from your dot.
I don't live in CA so haven't taken it in. Waiting to see what happens. I am sure when I take it in for something else they will change it
What year models is this recall?
2018 2500 , took my truck in for warranty work on the coolant level sensor. I knew about the recall when I brought my truck into dealership. I've owned the truck for a little over a yr. When I brought it miles was at 50,000 , currently 92,903. I use my truck commercially. I never had a message come up until I took it to dealer. See dealer message came up about exhaust filter and the check engine light also came on. I was 2 hrs away from home, I made it home with the message coming up see dealer exhaust filter. I don't drive the truck for a couple days, when I do the check engine light went off and the message went away. I know for sure the issue stems from the software update. I can hear my fans coming on now with the truck barely getting to running temp. With a month wait to get into dealership for a forced Regen, then I get a letter from a salesman at dealer saying they want to buy the truck for more than market value. I don't think I'll be back ✌️
so did Ford and Chev get this system right or do they need checking to
Being a fleet mechanic for the past 30 plus years and recently I am starting a training course on the PACCAR mx13 engine which CUMMINS makes the
Use of def is 1-2 Gallons of DEF to 50 gallons of fuel.
So yes they are re flashing the ECM so to use more def.
I’m not sure what the ratio is now on the current 6.7 before the
Re flash and what the new ratio will be.
Mx13 is not by Cummins.
Sorry I stand corrected
PACCAR engines are designed and manufactured in-house, while Cummins engines are built by a separate company. As a result, PACCAR engines are typically only used in PACCAR trucks, while Cummins are used in a variety of different truck brands.
In terms of performance, both engines have their strengths and weaknesses. PACCAR engines are known for their durability and fuel efficiency, while Cummins engines are known for their power and reliability. Ultimately, the decision between these engines will depend on the specific needs and preferences of the truck owner.
@@mikeb6300Cummins engines are built by Cummins at their CMEP plant in Colombus, IN
Thanks for watching
It sounds to me like they’re forcing it into regen more often (hence, burning more DEF) AND modified the program to force the truck into “idle mode” if you fail to refill your DEF tank before it’s empty.
Thanks for watching and commenting.
I have been curious if this was because the early ECMs weren't locked out, as well as if they were trying to get a list of deleted vehicles. It would be pretty easy to compare a list of VINs that had the recall done to a list of registered VINs. Also, if your truck is deleted, why would you even attempt going in for a recall?
In states without inspection laws and where they don't yet care if you the truck is deleted in order to get a registration most won't get flashed. But... if you are in states like California and a bunch of others that do... You won't be able to register that truck ever if you don't comply. Their way of control.
@UnderTheHoodShow What I mean about the registered part is if the EPA wants to perform a witch hunt, they could run the registered VINs against the recall performed VINs and start knocking on doors. Since it's illegal at a federal level to delete.
There r only 7states that link your registration to emissions testing!
@@allan1062 so only 7 states have a vehicle registration system?
@@pyrostwistedride4821 why did you leave out the word emissions when responding to a comment that had that word in it?
I don't like feeling like there is a conspiracy afoot. Yet, in this case, I can't help but feel this way. I own a 2018 2500. It is stock, other than wheels and shocks i left it alone. I wrestled with the delete or not and opted to keep it stock. I had the update at the dealer that sold me the truck, and so far, 3 weeks after the truck runs the same. I have lost 1 mpg, and DEF usage is only slightly more than before the update. As far as a conspiracy? There is a clear trail of the "gov" tracking credit card purchases, monitoring internet sites, and those sites' customers. 11 years in the odds are in the epas' favor they will find a percentage of these trucks deleted. The picture emerging is ultimately the ".gov" is pushing an anti diesel agenda. Doesn't it seem odd? When i read the numbers 630,000 trucks over a ten year period? What is the percentage of the total number of diesel-powered vehicles in America? So, was this in the end all an excuse for the epa/doj to find deleted trucks?
Time will tell…
Yes this is to see how many trucks have been deleted. But my 2018 hasn't been deleted so I'm going to have the recall done in a few days.
Clearly the recall recalibrate the def system tobregen more often to use more def per tank of fuel.... and it will now remove power if you run out of def and will take a shop to reset the power
Hopefully you will just be able to add more def.
i never will do this update .. i have a ghost tune def/egr detete.. buddy works at a Ram dealer said it was to find out what people did tunes on trucks and to use more def fuel per tank and to lock computers out from being tuned again
It's a bad one.
I have an old Dodge Ram truck and I love it. I would neveeer buy a newer truck. And what the hell is DEF ?
The old 12 valve diesels are great trucks. No Diesel Exhaust Fluid (DEF) to inject Into the exhaust to clean up the air on that truck.
DEF is synthetic pee.
03 here. 5.9 Truckers great. Stock no CC and no def.
Thanks for commenting and watching.
I remember when plants needed co2 to turn it to o2. Lol 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 good sheepel
Thanks for watching and commenting.
I haven't had any issues with my Factory Deleted 3rd Gen. 👍
What will you do if the EPA finds out?
Your description of the DEF change didn't make sense. Are you saying that the gauge drops faster but the truck isn't using more DEF? And you said that you used to be able to run them out of DEF and just keep driving and polluting more, but we know that's not true.
One of the things that they have done is to make the def gauge drop to empty faster so that the truck warns you to fill with def sooner because the way it was, you could read more than 1/8 tank but actually be empty causing more pollution.
@UnderTheHoodShow Are you a Democrat your tossing salad words, are you Harris sister
I have a 2018 2500 6.7 , I just did the 67a recall . The next day the engine light turns on . I live in California the truck is totally stock . My truck has been in the shop for three days and still no answer on what’s wrong. They said maybe a bent rod . The error code was p0306 .
Mine did the same thing, the dealer said that they couldn’t really find anything wrong and chalked it up to loose injector wires. They retighten them . Fifty miles later the light comes back on . After several days they found a broken valve spring and a bent valve on #6 . They replaced the entire head, it took about a month to get my truck back.
What I would like to know where the money is going from fines the EPA get . Let's make them account ability .
Here is the lost money (: www.foxnews.com/politics/bidens-epa-lost-track-billions-dollars-taxpayer-funds-inspector-general
Money grab by govt
Thanks for watching.
Power grab by the government.
The only thing it did for mine was to increase the amount of DEF being used.
Remember that the lawyers and judges were not in offices for two to three years of that time. I am sure that affected the timing.
The EPA hates Diesel power. Cummins Did Not admit to ANY wrongdoing and I don't think they did. I think they should counter sue for damages!
Funny it took so many years for them to do anything about this if it was so important but hammered VW so quickly and told us exactly what the fault was.
You do know, all the dealers have to do is the paperwork and bill chrysler for the recall. That puts your vin in the computer as being done, iv had recalls done in the computer that iv refused in the past
Exactly
This just adds more confusion about what the effect of the Flash is, here you say they reprogrammed the DEF gauge, other Tubers are saying the truck is using way more DEF that it did before the Flash was done. So until somebody like Gale Banks that really knows what their doing and has the engineers to identify the effect it will all be speculation.
Using more Def. We must not have been clear in the description. They reprogrammed the gauge so that it drops faster. That makes it look like it’s using more def. People that measure the gallons they put in and divide using miles have told us that they are using the same amount. But… the gauge drops faster so that when the tank is close to empty it limits the truck. Before it would run out and still read that it had def which would cause higher emissions. Our own 2014 truck read 1/4 tank empty. Thanks for watching.
What's left after they go after good company's ?
The owners of the trucks.
Yup, that is the goal !@@UnderTheHoodShow
you end up driving a ford
My truck doesn’t need a recall. I have an 2006
Hopefully no recalls there.
I can’t get this def system issue fixed. I have had it in 4 times and it isn’t deleted. I can’t get it deleted or fixed. 35k miles.
It seems to me that someone could file a Freedom of Info Act and get the scoop.
For over 15 years, I’ve been heavily involved with the German diesel emissions mess. Finally the EPA and DOJ have finally gotten around to domestic diesels. First and foremost, modern diesel emissions will legally operate properly and reliably, if you understand how the system actually operates. This is not as simple as you might think. There’s plenty of blame to go around. The EPA and CARB have known the designs they mandated and approved, would not actually work in the real world where consumers wouldn’t do the proper maintenance, and manufacturers weren’t about to explain how much maintenance really is required. The EPA ties the manufacturers hands with well meaning but unrealistic regulations. The manufacturers are forced to comply with the fuel efficiency and tailpipe emissions or pay outrageous penalties.
This is a VERY simplified explanation. The problem’s actually start when the engine is new. In order to protect the emissions system, engines no longer use Break-in oil when new. The piston rings don’t properly seat with the cylinder walls and many engines have a blow-by problem within the first 1,000 miles. In order to meet fuel economy standards and protect the DPF, manufacturers tell owners to use engine oil that won’t stand up to the heat in the engine. Oil companies make up wild claims about the quality of their oil.
The operating thermal window for modern diesel’s is very narrow. To cold and soot clogs the DPF and EGR. To hot, and the NOx emissions go to high. The recall is using more DEF because Cummings had to increase the combustion temperature. That increases the NOx, which means more DEF. Always keep the DEF tank full.
The hotter the combustion temperature, the harder it is on the oil. The older API CF Diesel oil is actually better for your engine. For hot weather, towing, or driving in the mountains, Amsoil 20w/50 Dominator diesel oil is excellent. Change every 5k.
The CCV filter is very important and should be changed every 30k. If it’s soaking in oil, you have excessive blow-by. The CCV filter should be replaced whenever the EGR valve is dirty. Dirty air filters cause oil consumption and clog the EGR. Replace the air filter every 20k.
Fuel pumps fail because of ultra low sulfur diesel fuel, or small amounts of gas somehow gets into the fuel. Sulfur is the lubricant in diesel fuel. Gas has no lubricant. When the fuel can’t properly lubricate the pump, the pistons in the pump fail and throws metal into the fuel injection system. Marvel Mystery oil in the fuel adds sulfur to the fuel and lubricates the pump. I know the bottle says you can’t use it in modern diesels. Use one quart in a tank of fuel. I can hear the howling now. I’ve seen the internal documents from manufacturers. They know it works, but can’t say so.
This is only the tip of the iceberg of information about modern diesels. Deleting the system is not the answer.
The United States is a private corporation. That makes it no different than McDonald's or Walmart 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
They want you to spend more on def ,and control your filters that have to be changed more
Thanks for watching and commenting.
To me, it would seem that there are two facets to the recall. One you use more def. Secondly, the software has been updated so that you can't delete your truck the way they have been deleting them in the past. I would speculate that the def consumption is something that was discovered by the EPA during the investigation. There was absolutely nothing for Cummins to gain by manipulating the amount of DEF these trucks used. 10-12 years ago, Def was just being mandated. It was/is viewed as a consumable that was mandated by the EPA that the end user would have to provide regardless of the rate of consumption. I think the bigger focus of the EPA is on eliminating the work around that allows one to delete the truck in the first place. So why did they limit their scope to just Rams with Cummins? My speculation for this would be the EPA must have some type of incriminating evidence on them (think email from Cummins to an outside vendor) stating that they (Cummins) intentionally designed the software to allow for the deletes. Why else would they accept the ridiculous fine? For those not taking their truck in (i am one of them) for the recall. Just be vigilant! I could see ram rolling out a secondary recall (something un-related) and claiming it is a potential safety hazard (think air bag recall) just so you lower your guard and take your truck in for that. They will use that opportunity to do the emissions update and claim, your vehicle did not have the faulty part for the bogus recall.
Thanks for watching.
Reason 42,563 why I still have my 2006 RAM 2500 with the 5.9
@@bobbyboykin7137 love the old Rams
12 valve for the win
For sure! With a big turbo and a turned up pump.
The biggest advantage of diesel was 100% mechanical which results in great reliability. Once they went to common rail, you bought all the electronics problems that gas burners have.
Loved the mechanical stuff and still do.
Thanks! Nice Job helping us understand what's going on. Also thanks for saying Hypothesis instead of Theory. I know it sounds anal, but funny how some don't like to use facts, instead assumptions are used to explain things.
We can assume with the best of them but usually make those assumptions based on the huge piles of emails and calls we get. We can usually sort out the BS and figure out what's real. Thanks for watching.
It's all about the money. They need a way to pay for the imagrents.
My 2016 is bone stock and in my opinion uses a lot of DEF....Im doubtful I'll take it in .....theres a lot more to all this than they're telling us. Give me a big check and I'll give it back.
Thanks for watching and commenting.
I have a dodge ram 2500 with a Cummings engine Andy dodge is having the most problems with the engines I do tks Dave
This recall brings the 2013-2019 update to the MY2020+ trucks. No tin foil hats.
Thanks for watching.
Juat had mine done and the truck uses way more Def
I think it was a way to get the trucks in to see how many were deleted
I know they are cracking down but they are getting carried away. I mean its not quite like the death penalty but close, Probably less punishment for robbing a bank or don't get me started on ID theft and when bank account gets hacked.
Thanks for watching.
I have a 2021 Cummins.
This was set up to find out who deleted their trucks. The EPA and Cummins had been working with each other the past four years. The EPA needed money to pay for one of their projects in exchange, Cummins was able to keep its military contract.
It's all just crazy. Probably more coming too. Thanks for watching.
I believe that they programmed it to use more DEF fluid, also possibly put a lock in the computer so you can’t tune them two birds, one stone that’s most likely what the EPA wanted done because of the possibility that so many comments owners have them tuned, possibly
Thanks for taking the time to comment.
I think no one should go in for this recall. We need leverage and we all should stand together. Forceing us to do something by not renewing our insurance is called blackmail, identical to the vaccine and mask mandate. If want to delete our engine it should be our choice. If we don't fight for our rights we have lost already.
Yes.
All vehicles should not have any Emmons they are doing the same thing to semis they don't run good since they have done this I have been running semis for 43 years tks Dave
You do not have to get a recall performed in states that do not do emissions testing, In states where emission tests are performed may be a problem though.
It amazes us how many people we know in our state which does not test for emissions have gone in and had the recall done. They are just lining up and doing it.
When my DEF guage gets to 1/4, I fill it so that has never happened to me.
Thanks for watching
Must be tough filming a video having the hiccups. What years were recalled?
Oh man you can’t believe. That and trying not to burp into the microphone are the two hardest things in radio (: Currently it’s 2013-2018 Thanks for watching.
2 Billion to hire more IRS Agents
Got my notice will be ignoring it last truck they did that to was my srt10 ram and it killed the power of it.
Is this something they’ll be doing to the GM vehicles?
Sounds to me like they used the DEF thing as a technical excuse to make people bring them in. The only ‘emissions defeat device built in’ seems to be that the computer can be tuned to run without the crap. Since I have to pass emissions, all that is there there, but I still am leery . In all honesty I’ll probably just ignore the recall since no one’s forcing me to.
Thanks for watching and commenting.
They'll come and get your truck. I've heard of guys having deleted trucks and they find out and they take your truck.
I was getting 22 to 24 miles a gallon before the recall now I’m getting 18 to 19 plus miles. My truck runs sluggish and no bunch. I have believed the government had large hand on this recall because EV man dates.