Bobby mentioned not seeing a reason for not using a carabiner on the escaper instead of tying a knot, I tried it once with my escaper, and regretted it immediately after a carabiner came down at breakneck speeds with my rope. It’s like pulling a metal rock down on your head. Always tie a knot on the escaper. And wear a helmet.
Isn't that exactly what Petzl recommends when abseiling on a single strand with a grigri? Or does having the biner in the middle of the rope makes it less of a projectile?
@@TomashGhzegovsky Absolutely. With a blocking rappel (with the Grigri), the biner is like you say in the middle of the rope so there is half of the rope which has to be pulled through before the biner can go into free fall. If you don't stretch out the length of the rope there is a good chance that you can retrieve the biner before the rope even starts to fall. In the Escaper case you use the full rope length and the biner will fall the full distance.
@@TomashGhzegovsky what? Coming down with a gri gri, you are tied in to one side of the rope. That rope goes to the rap station, the down rope that is not tied you, is for the gri gri. Then you let your self down. Am I missing something?
2:40 The black mark is supposed to be BELOW the sling not above it! It indicates the minimum amount of rope that needs to be sticking out. When Ryan repels the black mark was already part way through the finger trap (still plenty good enough though). Had me a bit worried there! The instructions also say maximum 20mm diameter for the thing you're threading (so no threading two bolts). There is a trick you can use if you want to use it on something bigger like a tree. You can basket hitch a large sling around the tree and thread the escaper through that. You can then tie one side of the sling to the escaper so it gets pulled down along with the rope.
PSA: Don't use this device unless necessary. Got mine stuck twice due to rope drag alone - the sling wouldn't slip out. Make sure the rope isn't wedged anywhere or you WILL be stranded. Steep and clear terrain only. Also gloves are useful if you have problems pulling. After a hundred strong tugs your skin is history.
Awesome device. I've been using it for almost all my rappels now since I've had mine (~1year). There are lots of multiple rope rappels in Tuolumne and some single pitch climbs requiring 2x 70m ropes to rappel. The Beal escaper is so much lighter than carrying another rope and I keep one in the pack at all times. The knot should be tied for the first person, so that it is safe. The last person rappelling will need to untie the knot before going down. At this point, the second would have seen that it wasn't slipping on the first rappel, so that should give more confidence to the setup. The minimum weight required to prevent slipping is 10kg/22lbs, so unless you stand on a ledge and fully unweight, it shouldn't slip. It shouldn't slip even if you are jerky while rappelling as long as you keep a minimum of 10kg/22lbs on the rope (this was one of the most common concerns people had when they saw the device being used.) I haven't done a side by side comparison on this, but based on my experience with the device, you'll need to fully weight the device as much as you can, then fully release it to minimize the number of pulls. This means pulling a lot of the rope stretch out before fully releasing. The rope should be shooting back up the wall. Not sure which way is faster or easier. Once the temps are good, I'll probably try this on Royal Arches with 2 Escapers, 1 on each end of the rope. That way the first person down can set up the next anchor and set up rappel while the second is rappelling and you don't have to pull up the rope again at each anchor.
Now that you have proven that it works the way it is supposed to (and tested the mbs), I think it is time to use it the way it is NOT supposed to be used (but still could be necesarry to do so): - trying to ascent a rope attached to an escaper (e.g. you are out alone and need to rapell the full length of your rope and while doing so realizing that you need to get up there for whatever reason) - swinging left right is sometimes necessary for reaching the next rapell point - using it in unfavourabel conditions, e.g. wet and you will probably come up with some other interesing scenarios :)
Yes, please break test with soaked rope & escaper! I've used it like that before to rap Yosemite Falls, felt kinda sketchy. Rain might prompt you to bail off a climb, which should be the exact use case this was designed for - but the instructions I got with it never mentioned something about wet conditions.
Not sure if the kids these days are aware, but everyone should know that Doug Robinson is straight-up climbing royalty and a hugely respected man. Great job Ryan!!
I had the damn thing in my hand in a mountain shop last climbing trip and my friend and I were listing things we would do before using this which included leaving a fixed rope, leaving a full rack of cams, doing a bivouac in the rain, praying for an act of god and calling our mums for a mountain rescue
Only bad part of these videos is that they have to end. I feel like we're hanging out and learning new stuff and then...boom, it's over. I guess I need to get a life. Great video guys 👍
I just rappelled ~300 meters on this on Cima Dodici in the Dolomites last week. Used a single 30 m half rope and it turned out to be something like 14 rappels. The Escaper worked really well and wasn't scary per see, the scary thing was using an 8 mm half rope in terrain with sharp limestone edges. Would be much nicer using a thicker rope.
I think I wouldn’t rely on that to rappel down, only in an emergency. What would you do if you get stuck on one of the rappels cuz the escaper is stuck somewhere and you can’t retrieve your rope :D
Great job fellas! I have been using the Escaper for about 2 years now. It is crazy bomber. People get freaked out by the looks of it, but if you have ever done any rescue at all, you know that a dog & tails capture is insanely secure. This is a great piece of kit that can be used over and over. I think its actually miss named as an "escaper". It was decided long ago that if you are multi pitching, you don't need to carry a second rope just to rap back down. This will work every time. I did some testing with a friend of mine competing the Escaper vs. a Carabiner / Knot block release. The escaper is easier, faster, and way less messy. Here are some lessons I've learned: 1- It works best in vertical environments. Even a wee bit o friction will cause a substantial amount of extra pulls. as seen in your video. If it was pure vert with little to no friction, i'd say 8-10 pulls is average. I have pulled it over an almost 90 degree edge, set back about 10', and still got it to release though. 2- The longer your rope, expect more pulls due to more rope stretch. 3- I typically only use on single point anchors. Even natural. I've wrapped trees branches up to 6" and it released great. 4- I've never had the black mark slip or adjust during a rappel. 5- Keep in mind that friction tails are Dynema. So you must stay aware of hot metal anchors. Dynemas enemy is heat, and sometimes bolts and chains can get down right smoking hot sitting in the sun. If you are looking to do extra tests- I'd say lets see what the minimal amount of Escaper rope you need through the Dynema before it pulls and fails. And how does it perform through 2+ bolts at different angles. "I can't believe you broke the beans above the frank"! Cheers mates
Glad you've only had good experiences - but having gotten my rope stuck (due to friction) two of less than a dozen times I've used it, I'd definitely refrain from deliberate usage.
@@juliandurchholz I'd love to hear what the circumstances were for you. How did it get stuck due to friction? Was it already stuck before you started your pulls? or stuck on the way down? I will say that as a coinsure of austere rescue and rope theory, most people (especially climbers) aren't that cognizant about retrievables. It really is an art and takes quite a bit of practice. Canyoneers are exceptionally well adept at retrievables and have been using all sorts of types for decades now. If set up beforehand properly, you usually don't have any issues.
@@BryanJen21 First time was a full 60m where after 10m the rope got kinda wedged in a corner of roughly 40 degrees. Honestly didn't look that bad when I passed it - no problem in a normal rappel - but apparently the device is really sensitive. The bottom 50m were free hanging. I gave up tugging after like 20-30 minutes and decided to scramble up the next day to retrieve it (it was night). The second time was a mix of corner friction and quicklink pinning the cord. Almost got it through, but it's nearly impossible to tell if you're making progress.
@@juliandurchholz Thanks for sharing Julian. That second one with the picture looks like a very hard placement for that device. With the corner adding that immense amount of friction. Maybe if the escaper was routed the other way, so instead of being on the backside of that quicklink, it'd be coming out the front? Also the angle of that pull is pretty aggressive. Very interesting indeed. Ive pulled over some pretty hard edges myself and didn't have any troubles, so very interesting to see examples if it not working so great. Again, thank you for sharing!
Have seen one in action on a snowy couloir. I was ascending while two guys were rappelling with it... and eventually I had to help them releasing the gadget from the R after pulling like crazy for some minutes. My conclusion: use it only on step rappels and preferably avoid winter conditions (as I don't know how does the bungee works if the device gets wet and frozen). Also... The longest the rappell, the more difficult is to release, as the elasticity of the rope difficults the release
When using the Escaper I recommend that the very last action before leaving the belay is to untie the stopper knot. Don't lean in to undo carabiners etc. if the tail is not tied off
Most of the climbs I do are centered in mountaineering. As it is there's enough rope jams and snags without adding an extra piece of material in the way. With that said this was designed for a specific scenario and it seems like it works well enough. Im impressed.
I bought one of these a long time ago and haven't had the balls to bring it out and actually use it. You guys basically tested every one of my fears about it - ha! I think this product is a great option when there's an intended walk-off but you're worried about potentially having to bail on a big route. I agree with other commenters to use this only on steep terrain - so many things that could get stuck in a crack - and never attach a carabiner to this unless you want it slingshotted at your head. It's annoying (but probably a good thing) that it was taking you guys 30+ pulls to get it down. It'd be cool if you guys tested a few different yanking techniques (hard and fast or slow and long?) to retrieve your rope most efficiently.
Been waiting for this video for sooo long :D I've been using the Escaper for about 6-8 months now, very frequently for short multipitches in my area (150-300meters). Normally carry a 70m rope, means I can cover two pitches (sometimes 3) each rappel. I'm 100kg and I doubt it has ever slipped at all as it has consistently taken 20-21 pulls (I use a slightly different method to what was done in your video, but it has never ever taken the 8x pulls stated, though I am more relieved that it takes 20+ :D). I also only ever rappel off a single bomber anchor point with this, it never sits correctly through two pieces and it slipped when I waited it the first time through two pieces, I had a safety on of course. Another thing, I often use this on slabby / ledgy terrain, a lot of scrambly pitches where I am, I just maintain light tension on the rope the entire time and it has still always taken me the 20-21 pulls to retrieve. I'm more paranoid about it getting snagged dragging down slabby terrain than it slipping. Best method I've found for pulling is just to pull full stretch of the rope tight and then completely release the rope out of your hands so it springs high, the bungee cord on the device does it's best when you take your hands completely away. This doesn't have to be a full body heave either, just grab high and pull to waist height and release. I've tried harder and softer and it all seems to be about 20-21.
As a reference for the pulls also, I have always made sure the black mark has been fed all the way through the finger trap. From that thread, I consistently get 20-21 pulls.
It would be interesting to see the minimum amount of force you can put on the rope before the escaper begins to contract, slip, and release. It would also be interesting to see that if ascending the rope would cause the escaper to release. This would be good to know in the event that the escaper gets stuck and you need to ascend the rope to fix it.
Thanks. I've used this a few times so I can LRS with a shorter rope. Obviously I was only Always takes at least 20+ tugs to get it down even when I was removing gear and bouncing. Obviously I was only doing this last one as a test and it was very sphincter exercising! But still even with ledges, stuck gear, and a 35 m ab it took 23 pulls. It would be great if you could show it going through 2 anchor rings.
I think that the difference in your earlier tugging to pull the escape through vs in an actual use situation is friction. Thinking about it, it seems like in a rappel situation you have load on the system constantly. The variability in bouncing would change the load but not unload the rope. That would mean that there would be a load high enough for static friction to hold at all times and your bouncing would only be above minimum static friction load. Whereas when you are bouncing unloaded or in a tug of war, there would be a variation around no load on the rope causing it to drop beneath the static friction load necessary to not slip. Just a theory and not helpful for testing before loading but mentally may help to think about it this way if you use it again.
Great test guys. I've got one, It's always in my pack on multi-pitch days for emergencies. My son and I used it out at Linville Gorge NC instead of scrambling down a very long approach gulley. With a full 60m rope out it took a full 20+ pulls to get it to release. each pull was both my son and I jumping up and yanking down. defeating all the rope stretch to engage the inchworm effect is tough.... So Escaper or a good 6mm tagline. tagline will take up more room in pack but easier to pulldown. Both are definitely better options than using 2 ropes if the 2nd rope is only needed for descends.
Thank you for testing the Escaper. I was always wooried about the , think its 8mm, dyneema sling, but its super good enough. This thing works great and i always have it with me doing some steep hikes or flat climbs. With 20m light halfrope(i dont trust this dyneeme ropes 🥺), a repelling device, a light mountaineeringbelt, some slings and some carabiners it weights under 1Kg and i must not call the helicopter if i´m to scared ro climb down. 40m halfrope with repelling stuff would weight much more. 😉👍😎
Nice spot, it helps to focus on the system and not look down until the fear subsides. Ive repelled 3x with a gri gri and 1 time with an atc with the rope halved. So its still kinda new to me. But I really like the doubled atc with a prusik on the leg loop. Think Id also get a harness with more padded leg loops as I'm 230
@14:55: he es wearing an austrian helmet! Throw a helmet on the ground - it will break. Throw the cap on the ground, it does not break - so it is more stable!
The Escaper is basically just a pre-tied Extended French Prusik knot. According to Geoffrey Budworth of the International Guild of Knot Tyers in his book "The Complete Book of Knots": "The basic French Prusik knot in cordage seems to date from the early 1960s. In 1977 Robert Thrun recommended more racking turns to extend the knot. The Chinese finger-trap version shown here is intended to be tied in tape and was created by Robert Chisnall, who described it to me in 1981." Chisnall also first published a 3-loop version of the Figure-8 knot, a Triple Bowline variation, an excellent adjustable loop knot, an overhand shortening knot (to shorten a rope), and a doubled version of the Munter friction hitch useful for wet or slippery rope in emergencies. Chisnall is a climber, and works in forensic knot analysis.
I think it is very much worth mentioning that this device is evaluated for safety in terms of ENSA standards for belay anchors. That is the vertical spread of 2 fixed bolts where the top bolt is equipped with a chain such that the 2 rap rings match closely with each other providing a single masterpoint. Practically speaking, a single fixed piece that rings and passes visual inspection as a rappel anchor isn't a concern to waste to much time considering if that is what provides the safest path down.
I used to keep the escaper in the bottom of my pack or on the back of my harness as last ditch safety tool. If i had to rappel in a situation where my rope doubled up might be too short (for whatever unplanned reason), I could take the escaper out and have an extra margin. Otherwise i I would just rappel normally
Not really your usual kind of test but I would be really interested in you guys making some crazy (bad/friction filled) anchors or using a really long rope to see what situations it gets stuck and won't release in.
Also a good idea to back up the first rapeller by tying a knot to the end and only let the last guy rapell on it, ready to "escape". Also they say you only need about 10kg(~20lb) of force to keep it engaged.
Would love to see some testing *outside* it's spec... like how safe is it with the Beal backup line, knowing full well that a 5mm line is not recommended for the escaper.
Interesting, I was thinking about a route maybe next summer that needs to be lightweight but has some rappels. Was thinking of a lightweight triple rated rope and a tagline or the rope and an escaper. I'm still feeling nervous. It would save me carrying a tagline! I might have to look at this again
@11:40 It seems you have to unweight it nearly completely for it to move through the dyneema sling. If you were to rappel down ledges, you would want to kept your weight in your harness by keeping your feet perpendicular to the wall, as opposed to standing up ever. similar to rappelling over a ledge in canyoneering.
Great vid. Def a part 2 needed: bouncing rappels, bouncing jugging back up, various anchor setup, wet or frozen ropes. I suspect it will be ok except for wet/frozen ropes but who knows?
As someone who does a ton of ascending fixed ropes (and on systems that are smoother than climber jugging methods), I would not have faith in this thing holding.... :/ I don't recall how many strokes it takes me to go up a 100-ft free-hanging pitch, but I think it's enough to work this thing free....
@@rachelhasbruises Unlikely, unless between each pull your completely unweighting the rope by standing up or something. takes very little constant weight to keep it engaged / keep it from recoiling.
Try to ascend the rope with the escaper. The rope flex is interesting since it evens the load over a short timespan, less tugging. A potential use is to rapell of a single rope for much longer rapells.. Thus the question, how long rope could you actually retrieve?
Ascend a rope..... mmmmmm yah not intended purpose. I've done a full 60m rap with the escaper. it was a full 20 pulls to overcome both rope stretch and the inchworm effects
I meeeean, I've got a 586-ft fully freehanging rappel that can be set up if y'all pester Ryan enough to try to the next time he comes caving with me.... 😉
What's the venn diagram of the intersection of "super good enough" and "looks like this might work"? Love the tests you do! This one? Looks like an expensive substitute for just more rope. But I'm mostly just a big baby.
I've just had a great idea! Good way to get rid of your rubbish would be offering it out as a competition prize for the best comment, while simultaneously working them UA-cam algorithms.
Funny, Scared to use an escaper but not wearing a helmet, using a sling as a lanyard and no prusik to backup the abseil system :D . I used the escaper, the scariest part with it is not being able to retrieve the system. It's great but you can't use it in every situations.
Would love to see someone ascend on that, and also how many times you could unweight it going over steps/ledges. Also my guess for tying straigh into the device would be you wouldn't want a carabiner hanging up on the rock ar your trying to release.
I'd be super skeptical for ascending.... even the smoothest of frogging or ropewalking is still sooo much motion (let alone jugging if it's free-hanging). 😬
@@rachelhasbruises exactly, so you would not want to rely on this for multi pitch abs, if it gets snagged on one of the retrievals your screwed, and you wouldn't want to ascend back up not knowing how far away it is from release.
I’d add a few links to those anchors if it was an area I visited very often. Thanks for sharing. The sell is why do you need this device? at least for the fiancée it’s hard to explain the cost all to double the distance you can rap. Even to me seems like a well… I have everything else climbing related but want a new piece of gear…kind of device.
The theory is for emergencies when you need to cover a lot of distance in raps but you still don't want the weight of half/twins for more conventional full rope length raps. Basically there's a storm coming (or already on top of you since they can come in REALLY quick depending on how far away you can see in the alpine setting you are in) in the alpine and you are in a situation where bailing down instead of bailing up makes sense.
I’d be shitten myself over seeing the carabiner do that over the ledge. Looks like those anchors need chains, if not allied in area maybe better placement
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Bobby mentioned not seeing a reason for not using a carabiner on the escaper instead of tying a knot, I tried it once with my escaper, and regretted it immediately after a carabiner came down at breakneck speeds with my rope. It’s like pulling a metal rock down on your head. Always tie a knot on the escaper. And wear a helmet.
Yeah I posted a similar comment, hasn't happened to me, but as soon as I saw how it worked I was like yeah don't attach a chunk of metal to that lol.
Good Point!
Isn't that exactly what Petzl recommends when abseiling on a single strand with a grigri? Or does having the biner in the middle of the rope makes it less of a projectile?
@@TomashGhzegovsky Absolutely. With a blocking rappel (with the Grigri), the biner is like you say in the middle of the rope so there is half of the rope which has to be pulled through before the biner can go into free fall. If you don't stretch out the length of the rope there is a good chance that you can retrieve the biner before the rope even starts to fall. In the Escaper case you use the full rope length and the biner will fall the full distance.
@@TomashGhzegovsky what? Coming down with a gri gri, you are tied in to one side of the rope. That rope goes to the rap station, the down rope that is not tied you, is for the gri gri. Then you let your self down. Am I missing something?
2:40 The black mark is supposed to be BELOW the sling not above it! It indicates the minimum amount of rope that needs to be sticking out. When Ryan repels the black mark was already part way through the finger trap (still plenty good enough though). Had me a bit worried there!
The instructions also say maximum 20mm diameter for the thing you're threading (so no threading two bolts).
There is a trick you can use if you want to use it on something bigger like a tree. You can basket hitch a large sling around the tree and thread the escaper through that. You can then tie one side of the sling to the escaper so it gets pulled down along with the rope.
Black mark is meant to go all the way through the Chinese finger trap. Even though it might be overkill that is how beal intends this product is used
PSA: Don't use this device unless necessary. Got mine stuck twice due to rope drag alone - the sling wouldn't slip out. Make sure the rope isn't wedged anywhere or you WILL be stranded. Steep and clear terrain only. Also gloves are useful if you have problems pulling. After a hundred strong tugs your skin is history.
ive used mine on a 25-30 metre waterfall and the weight of a wet rope made it very relectant to come through, had to whip the rope between each tug
Nerd
fun tip to have more strength when pulling on a rope: stick a clove hitch on a carabiner and use it as a handle
Awesome device. I've been using it for almost all my rappels now since I've had mine (~1year). There are lots of multiple rope rappels in Tuolumne and some single pitch climbs requiring 2x 70m ropes to rappel. The Beal escaper is so much lighter than carrying another rope and I keep one in the pack at all times.
The knot should be tied for the first person, so that it is safe. The last person rappelling will need to untie the knot before going down. At this point, the second would have seen that it wasn't slipping on the first rappel, so that should give more confidence to the setup.
The minimum weight required to prevent slipping is 10kg/22lbs, so unless you stand on a ledge and fully unweight, it shouldn't slip. It shouldn't slip even if you are jerky while rappelling as long as you keep a minimum of 10kg/22lbs on the rope (this was one of the most common concerns people had when they saw the device being used.)
I haven't done a side by side comparison on this, but based on my experience with the device, you'll need to fully weight the device as much as you can, then fully release it to minimize the number of pulls. This means pulling a lot of the rope stretch out before fully releasing. The rope should be shooting back up the wall. Not sure which way is faster or easier.
Once the temps are good, I'll probably try this on Royal Arches with 2 Escapers, 1 on each end of the rope. That way the first person down can set up the next anchor and set up rappel while the second is rappelling and you don't have to pull up the rope again at each anchor.
Hey, are you still alive?
@MCP Yeah, I think so
@@senditchen still hasn't failed, good to know xD
So much drama could have been avoided by simply belaying Ryan on another rope.
Or even just backing up that figure 8 loop to the other anchor
Now that you have proven that it works the way it is supposed to (and tested the mbs), I think it is time to use it the way it is NOT supposed to be used (but still could be necesarry to do so):
- trying to ascent a rope attached to an escaper (e.g. you are out alone and need to rapell the full length of your rope and while doing so realizing that you need to get up there for whatever reason)
- swinging left right is sometimes necessary for reaching the next rapell point
- using it in unfavourabel conditions, e.g. wet
and you will probably come up with some other interesing scenarios :)
I like the ascending idea. I could see a few ways in which people could end up in this situation and decide to try and risk it!
Yes, please break test with soaked rope & escaper!
I've used it like that before to rap Yosemite Falls, felt kinda sketchy. Rain might prompt you to bail off a climb, which should be the exact use case this was designed for - but the instructions I got with it never mentioned something about wet conditions.
Good ideas. I could ascend up the tower with it all jerky and see if it slips. And see if wet slips
@@HowNOT2 and maybe compare free-hangig to ascending feet-on-the-wall
@@HowNOT2 Or up a cliff with a backup belay.
The bolts placement and the biner flexing definitely got me more concerned than the Escaper though
That was one of the scariest things I've ever seen...always extend, when you have bolts that close to an edge people.
the clip of Bobby saying "helmets" is my favorite part
i realized we were all being a bad example
Not sure if the kids these days are aware, but everyone should know that Doug Robinson is straight-up climbing royalty and a hugely respected man. Great job Ryan!!
Interview coming soon
@@HowNOT2 Cathedral ledge, visit!
if you interview him at flatbread, I'll drive across the country to see
Doug Robinson! Nice climbing royalty cameo.
Jesus, I watched Moving over Stone 32 years ago! He still looks really good!
I had the damn thing in my hand in a mountain shop last climbing trip and my friend and I were listing things we would do before using this which included leaving a fixed rope, leaving a full rack of cams, doing a bivouac in the rain, praying for an act of god and calling our mums for a mountain rescue
hahahahaha... that's how i felt
I was gonna say jump
Only bad part of these videos is that they have to end. I feel like we're hanging out and learning new stuff and then...boom, it's over. I guess I need to get a life. Great video guys 👍
Fiddlestick, Escaper, macrame knot & sand bags. All sketchy & retrievable, yet all surprisingly SUPER GOOD ENOUGH!
Glad to see Bobby is doing better. You guys are great, keep up the good work!
I just rappelled ~300 meters on this on Cima Dodici in the Dolomites last week. Used a single 30 m half rope and it turned out to be something like 14 rappels. The Escaper worked really well and wasn't scary per see, the scary thing was using an 8 mm half rope in terrain with sharp limestone edges. Would be much nicer using a thicker rope.
How often did you have to tug on it?
@@alalalal 25-30 times until release
Why did you only have a single 30m half rope?
I think I wouldn’t rely on that to rappel down, only in an emergency. What would you do if you get stuck on one of the rappels cuz the escaper is stuck somewhere and you can’t retrieve your rope :D
Great job fellas! I have been using the Escaper for about 2 years now. It is crazy bomber. People get freaked out by the looks of it, but if you have ever done any rescue at all, you know that a dog & tails capture is insanely secure. This is a great piece of kit that can be used over and over. I think its actually miss named as an "escaper". It was decided long ago that if you are multi pitching, you don't need to carry a second rope just to rap back down. This will work every time. I did some testing with a friend of mine competing the Escaper vs. a Carabiner / Knot block release. The escaper is easier, faster, and way less messy. Here are some lessons I've learned:
1- It works best in vertical environments. Even a wee bit o friction will cause a substantial amount of extra pulls. as seen in your video. If it was pure vert with little to no friction, i'd say 8-10 pulls is average. I have pulled it over an almost 90 degree edge, set back about 10', and still got it to release though.
2- The longer your rope, expect more pulls due to more rope stretch.
3- I typically only use on single point anchors. Even natural. I've wrapped trees branches up to 6" and it released great.
4- I've never had the black mark slip or adjust during a rappel.
5- Keep in mind that friction tails are Dynema. So you must stay aware of hot metal anchors. Dynemas enemy is heat, and sometimes bolts and chains can get down right smoking hot sitting in the sun.
If you are looking to do extra tests- I'd say lets see what the minimal amount of Escaper rope you need through the Dynema before it pulls and fails. And how does it perform through 2+ bolts at different angles.
"I can't believe you broke the beans above the frank"!
Cheers mates
Glad you've only had good experiences - but having gotten my rope stuck (due to friction) two of less than a dozen times I've used it, I'd definitely refrain from deliberate usage.
@@juliandurchholz I'd love to hear what the circumstances were for you. How did it get stuck due to friction? Was it already stuck before you started your pulls? or stuck on the way down? I will say that as a coinsure of austere rescue and rope theory, most people (especially climbers) aren't that cognizant about retrievables. It really is an art and takes quite a bit of practice. Canyoneers are exceptionally well adept at retrievables and have been using all sorts of types for decades now. If set up beforehand properly, you usually don't have any issues.
@@BryanJen21 First time was a full 60m where after 10m the rope got kinda wedged in a corner of roughly 40 degrees. Honestly didn't look that bad when I passed it - no problem in a normal rappel - but apparently the device is really sensitive. The bottom 50m were free hanging. I gave up tugging after like 20-30 minutes and decided to scramble up the next day to retrieve it (it was night).
The second time was a mix of corner friction and quicklink pinning the cord. Almost got it through, but it's nearly impossible to tell if you're making progress.
@@BryanJen21 Here's what #2 looked like: i.imgur.com/JvVJZR4.jpg
@@juliandurchholz Thanks for sharing Julian. That second one with the picture looks like a very hard placement for that device. With the corner adding that immense amount of friction. Maybe if the escaper was routed the other way, so instead of being on the backside of that quicklink, it'd be coming out the front? Also the angle of that pull is pretty aggressive. Very interesting indeed. Ive pulled over some pretty hard edges myself and didn't have any troubles, so very interesting to see examples if it not working so great. Again, thank you for sharing!
Have seen one in action on a snowy couloir. I was ascending while two guys were rappelling with it... and eventually I had to help them releasing the gadget from the R after pulling like crazy for some minutes. My conclusion: use it only on step rappels and preferably avoid winter conditions (as I don't know how does the bungee works if the device gets wet and frozen). Also... The longest the rappell, the more difficult is to release, as the elasticity of the rope difficults the release
Love it. Such a good weight saver!!!! Have used many times in.
7:00 "I'm curious how bad you can screw this up and not die"
That's what I am curious about all the time.
THANK YOU!!!! LOVE YOU GUYS SO MUCH, AWESOME VIDEO, LOV... Loving the new videos and seriesoh and erm... Thank you :) again :)
We used to use this style of knot on traditional rigged boats to tighten shrouds it works very well with flat strap.
When using the Escaper I recommend that the very last action before leaving the belay is to untie the stopper knot. Don't lean in to undo carabiners etc. if the tail is not tied off
Most of the climbs I do are centered in mountaineering. As it is there's enough rope jams and snags without adding an extra piece of material in the way. With that said this was designed for a specific scenario and it seems like it works well enough. Im impressed.
Ace video as all yours are. Keep up the great work. You guys are amazing. 👏 👍🏴
You need to make more clips. I love it. Thanks for taking me to school
Thanks for all the testing. It shows me that we will never use it in our scenarios. Which is great to know.
We use that kind of knot in the electrical trade to pull wire. We call it a mares tail. They hold a lot of weight when done right.
You've rapped off of a little acrylic fiddle stick in Moab but *thiiiiiis* is the sketchy thing, huh? lul
Had exactly the same thought lel
Hell, he highlined off the fiddle-stix!
It all scares me!
@@rachelhasbruises dont' tempt me to highline off the beal escaper! ;)
@@HowNOT2 do it or no balls
Super nice product. Love my neal escaper
So glad you covered this one. I would NEVER trust that.
I bought one of these a long time ago and haven't had the balls to bring it out and actually use it. You guys basically tested every one of my fears about it - ha! I think this product is a great option when there's an intended walk-off but you're worried about potentially having to bail on a big route. I agree with other commenters to use this only on steep terrain - so many things that could get stuck in a crack - and never attach a carabiner to this unless you want it slingshotted at your head. It's annoying (but probably a good thing) that it was taking you guys 30+ pulls to get it down. It'd be cool if you guys tested a few different yanking techniques (hard and fast or slow and long?) to retrieve your rope most efficiently.
"Bealieve me, you are gonna escape."
Seems to be working off a Dog&tails knot, which is very handy when doing lowers and passing knots. Maybe you can test a Dog and tails knot .
I love this guy’s content
Cool! interested to see the results
My man 💪🏼 glad this one made the cut! (Typing this as the start of the video BTW) let’s see how it does.
you really have great content.
Been waiting for this video for sooo long :D
I've been using the Escaper for about 6-8 months now, very frequently for short multipitches in my area (150-300meters). Normally carry a 70m rope, means I can cover two pitches (sometimes 3) each rappel. I'm 100kg and I doubt it has ever slipped at all as it has consistently taken 20-21 pulls (I use a slightly different method to what was done in your video, but it has never ever taken the 8x pulls stated, though I am more relieved that it takes 20+ :D). I also only ever rappel off a single bomber anchor point with this, it never sits correctly through two pieces and it slipped when I waited it the first time through two pieces, I had a safety on of course.
Another thing, I often use this on slabby / ledgy terrain, a lot of scrambly pitches where I am, I just maintain light tension on the rope the entire time and it has still always taken me the 20-21 pulls to retrieve. I'm more paranoid about it getting snagged dragging down slabby terrain than it slipping. Best method I've found for pulling is just to pull full stretch of the rope tight and then completely release the rope out of your hands so it springs high, the bungee cord on the device does it's best when you take your hands completely away. This doesn't have to be a full body heave either, just grab high and pull to waist height and release. I've tried harder and softer and it all seems to be about 20-21.
As a reference for the pulls also, I have always made sure the black mark has been fed all the way through the finger trap. From that thread, I consistently get 20-21 pulls.
Very cool! But doesn't the rope easily get stuck on slabby terrain though?
It would be interesting to see the minimum amount of force you can put on the rope before the escaper begins to contract, slip, and release. It would also be interesting to see that if ascending the rope would cause the escaper to release. This would be good to know in the event that the escaper gets stuck and you need to ascend the rope to fix it.
Thanks. I've used this a few times so I can LRS with a shorter rope. Obviously I was only Always takes at least 20+ tugs to get it down even when I was removing gear and bouncing. Obviously I was only doing this last one as a test and it was very sphincter exercising! But still even with ledges, stuck gear, and a 35 m ab it took 23 pulls.
It would be great if you could show it going through 2 anchor rings.
Wow I'm amazed how strong that thing is. Definitely a great device for an emergency.
Slackcrificed it!!! I am so psyched for the drop tower !!!
What if it would be wet?
I think that the difference in your earlier tugging to pull the escape through vs in an actual use situation is friction. Thinking about it, it seems like in a rappel situation you have load on the system constantly. The variability in bouncing would change the load but not unload the rope. That would mean that there would be a load high enough for static friction to hold at all times and your bouncing would only be above minimum static friction load. Whereas when you are bouncing unloaded or in a tug of war, there would be a variation around no load on the rope causing it to drop beneath the static friction load necessary to not slip. Just a theory and not helpful for testing before loading but mentally may help to think about it this way if you use it again.
Exactly what I was thinking.
been keen to see this tested on this channel
Bless you.
Great test guys. I've got one, It's always in my pack on multi-pitch days for emergencies.
My son and I used it out at Linville Gorge NC instead of scrambling down a very long approach gulley. With a full 60m rope out it took a full 20+ pulls to get it to release. each pull was both my son and I jumping up and yanking down. defeating all the rope stretch to engage the inchworm effect is tough....
So Escaper or a good 6mm tagline. tagline will take up more room in pack but easier to pulldown. Both are definitely better options than using 2 ropes if the 2nd rope is only needed for descends.
What routes in NC I'm localish to the gorge.
Didn’t expect to see the Linville Gorge mentioned here. What up gorge rats
Man, you guys crack me up!
Thank you for testing the Escaper. I was always wooried about the , think its 8mm, dyneema sling, but its super good enough. This thing works great and i always have it with me doing some steep hikes or flat climbs. With 20m light halfrope(i dont trust this dyneeme ropes 🥺), a repelling device, a light mountaineeringbelt, some slings and some carabiners it weights under 1Kg and i must not call the helicopter if i´m to scared ro climb down. 40m halfrope with repelling stuff would weight much more. 😉👍😎
Nice spot, it helps to focus on the system and not look down until the fear subsides. Ive repelled 3x with a gri gri and 1 time with an atc with the rope halved. So its still kinda new to me. But I really like the doubled atc with a prusik on the leg loop. Think Id also get a harness with more padded leg loops as I'm 230
Omg Doug is wearing one of my friend Rich’s shirts❤️❤️❤️
I actualy learned this over under crossing thing with a sling to repell on a thought rope
@14:55: he es wearing an austrian helmet!
Throw a helmet on the ground - it will break. Throw the cap on the ground, it does not break - so it is more stable!
Even after watching the carabiner loaded over an edge test, that bionic flexing made me nervous
The Escaper is basically just a pre-tied Extended French Prusik knot. According to Geoffrey Budworth of the International Guild of Knot Tyers in his book "The Complete Book of Knots": "The basic French Prusik knot in cordage seems to date from the early 1960s. In 1977 Robert Thrun recommended more racking turns to extend the knot. The Chinese finger-trap version shown here is intended to be tied in tape and was created by Robert Chisnall, who described it to me in 1981." Chisnall also first published a 3-loop version of the Figure-8 knot, a Triple Bowline variation, an excellent adjustable loop knot, an overhand shortening knot (to shorten a rope), and a doubled version of the Munter friction hitch useful for wet or slippery rope in emergencies. Chisnall is a climber, and works in forensic knot analysis.
I think it is very much worth mentioning that this device is evaluated for safety in terms of ENSA standards for belay anchors. That is the vertical spread of 2 fixed bolts where the top bolt is equipped with a chain such that the 2 rap rings match closely with each other providing a single masterpoint. Practically speaking, a single fixed piece that rings and passes visual inspection as a rappel anchor isn't a concern to waste to much time considering if that is what provides the safest path down.
I used to keep the escaper in the bottom of my pack or on the back of my harness as last ditch safety tool. If i had to rappel in a situation where my rope doubled up might be too short (for whatever unplanned reason), I could take the escaper out and have an extra margin. Otherwise i I would just rappel normally
Time for that drop test man.. As a tower climber, I'm very interested in having this in my rescue bag on the ground. Would appreciate.. Cheers.
Not really your usual kind of test but I would be really interested in you guys making some crazy (bad/friction filled) anchors or using a really long rope to see what situations it gets stuck and won't release in.
I didn't knew that product, it looks interesting, but I thing that I would prefere an other method.
love the video
Personally I loved this format too.
Also a good idea to back up the first rapeller by tying a knot to the end and only let the last guy rapell on it, ready to "escape".
Also they say you only need about 10kg(~20lb) of force to keep it engaged.
Probably also a good idea to let the first guy see if they can disengage it (i.e. if there isn’t too much rope drag).
I have it and love it, but you have to learn how and when you can use it. I still carry tag line and may do short rappels when they are called for.
It simply works like a valdotain tress or like a ZigZag. It is super save as long as you keep tension on it!
@ 7:00 you sum up the reason I subscribed to your channel.
Best part of this video was the sped up counting when actually trying to retrieve the rope
The needed more Doug, but not testing the escaper!
Okay I'm still terrified. Talk about loose ends.
Would love to see some testing *outside* it's spec... like how safe is it with the Beal backup line, knowing full well that a 5mm line is not recommended for the escaper.
I've just bought one
Since The Escaper came out did nobody think about make a test with it totally wet?
Interesting, I was thinking about a route maybe next summer that needs to be lightweight but has some rappels. Was thinking of a lightweight triple rated rope and a tagline or the rope and an escaper. I'm still feeling nervous. It would save me carrying a tagline! I might have to look at this again
@11:40 It seems you have to unweight it nearly completely for it to move through the dyneema sling. If you were to rappel down ledges, you would want to kept your weight in your harness by keeping your feet perpendicular to the wall, as opposed to standing up ever. similar to rappelling over a ledge in canyoneering.
Great vid. Def a part 2 needed: bouncing rappels, bouncing jugging back up, various anchor setup, wet or frozen ropes.
I suspect it will be ok except for wet/frozen ropes but who knows?
Rapped once with soaked 9.5mm dry rope & escaper. Load tested with backup before, didn't slip. Still felt sketchy, and nothing in the manual about it.
Oh, I bounced on it. See that big carabiner flexing?!
As someone who does a ton of ascending fixed ropes (and on systems that are smoother than climber jugging methods), I would not have faith in this thing holding.... :/ I don't recall how many strokes it takes me to go up a 100-ft free-hanging pitch, but I think it's enough to work this thing free....
@@rachelhasbruises Unlikely, unless between each pull your completely unweighting the rope by standing up or something. takes very little constant weight to keep it engaged / keep it from recoiling.
This is the commercial version of the suicide knot.
I use two ropes to test this sort of thing. One rope for the thing I'm testing and the other rope anchored safely with prusik knot.
You could always take a belay when you're testing things you don't trust.
Trusting it was the test.
I’d about just carry a tag line idk it’s pretty cool though I could see using it
11:07 and he shall be known as "Rock Humper" from that day on...
Beal. "We'll escape you for a payment, or a'scrape you off the pavement - guaranteed!"
New intro🤟
Almost cried when I saw the view (#caldorfire) And I'm reminded of the time I mentioned to Bobby that that anchor needs some attention.
I’ve heard if you shake it more than 30 times you’re playing with it. 😉
Try to ascend the rope with the escaper.
The rope flex is interesting since it evens the load over a short timespan, less tugging.
A potential use is to rapell of a single rope for much longer rapells..
Thus the question, how long rope could you actually retrieve?
@A R "Could be used safely with a 200m rappel" - sure, to get down. No way to pull a 200m rope, its weight would prevent any slipping.
Ascend a rope..... mmmmmm yah not intended purpose. I've done a full 60m rap with the escaper. it was a full 20 pulls to overcome both rope stretch and the inchworm effects
@@juliandurchholz mgiht need more elastic to lift the weight of that much rope between tugs
I meeeean, I've got a 586-ft fully freehanging rappel that can be set up if y'all pester Ryan enough to try to the next time he comes caving with me.... 😉
Carabiner increases the chance of getting snagged when the rope is pulled.
i imagine a tag line is probably around the same price, might just go with that to get my rope back
What's the venn diagram of the intersection of "super good enough" and "looks like this might work"? Love the tests you do! This one? Looks like an expensive substitute for just more rope. But I'm mostly just a big baby.
Nicee just like elvish rope!
I'm not sure what weight savings this gives, versus spooling out a very light pull line, attached to a knot block, as you rappel.
I've just had a great idea! Good way to get rid of your rubbish would be offering it out as a competition prize for the best comment, while simultaneously working them UA-cam algorithms.
Funny, Scared to use an escaper but not wearing a helmet, using a sling as a lanyard and no prusik to backup the abseil system :D . I used the escaper, the scariest part with it is not being able to retrieve the system. It's great but you can't use it in every situations.
Would love to see someone ascend on that, and also how many times you could unweight it going over steps/ledges.
Also my guess for tying straigh into the device would be you wouldn't want a carabiner hanging up on the rock ar your trying to release.
I'd be super skeptical for ascending.... even the smoothest of frogging or ropewalking is still sooo much motion (let alone jugging if it's free-hanging). 😬
@@rachelhasbruises exactly, so you would not want to rely on this for multi pitch abs, if it gets snagged on one of the retrievals your screwed, and you wouldn't want to ascend back up not knowing how far away it is from release.
I’d add a few links to those anchors if it was an area I visited very often. Thanks for sharing. The sell is why do you need this device? at least for the fiancée it’s hard to explain the cost all to double the distance you can rap. Even to me seems like a well… I have everything else climbing related but want a new piece of gear…kind of device.
The theory is for emergencies when you need to cover a lot of distance in raps but you still don't want the weight of half/twins for more conventional full rope length raps. Basically there's a storm coming (or already on top of you since they can come in REALLY quick depending on how far away you can see in the alpine setting you are in) in the alpine and you are in a situation where bailing down instead of bailing up makes sense.
Can you try ascending the rope on the Beal escaper while on top rope belay and see how much it moves through the device?
I’d be shitten myself over seeing the carabiner do that over the ledge. Looks like those anchors need chains, if not allied in area maybe better placement
When is this coming to hownot2store?
Looks quite similar to tree climbing with a prusick hitch with extra steps
Instead of the stopper knot on the tail of the escaper, could have clipped a sling to the loop of your figure-8? (Loosely)