i dont know if you guys have revealed this spot yet, but what you should do when the spot is ready, bring your friend and have a bbq as a grand opening and then organically people will hear about it and start to come over time. you dont want to do it over the web because everyone and there mother will trash the place, whether they mean to or not. bobbie is the man!!!!
In my book, Bobby is an absolute legend. I find his attitude and dedication for precision as well as detail to be very inspiring. And the investments he makes into the community (time, effort and money as well) are mindblowing. Such a calm, positive and selfless character. I had a blast watching you two. Thanks for sharing
Never met Bobby. My recreation culture admires exploration. More so when their cartography is verified. Routes are what porters use to supply their first base camp (about 12 hours of mountaineering travel expertise from the nearest sunlight). Given that 100 miles of cartography has been completed.
I don't have any interest in climbing. I have no idea how I got here. But dang Bobby that work ethic and attention to detail impressed the poo poo out of me. Well played good sir.
Watching again as revision on logistics because I don't place glue-in, normally mechanical, but I'm planning something... Anyway, noticed at about 11:45 Bobby mentioning putting in a trail to the access road. Wow, he's also creating trails? This guy just promoted from hero to Saint. From this day on he will be known as Saint Bobby!!!
I am all for making as small an impact as possible, but trundling to make a place safer is 100% ok, particularly if it is expected to be a high traffic area. As a geologist, I know that any rock that is loose enough for a human to pull down is already pretty much ready to go in the geologic time frame. No reason to fret much over it
Here goes my opinion: - Rap bolting is the best way to bolt sport routes. Safer and better placed bolts are a benefit of this. - Definitely take off every piece of loose rock from the wall. Much more likely to have someone hurt from unexpected rock fall than from route cleaning. - Bobs anchor is amazing. Best setup I've seen so far. You guys do amazing work! Keep it up!
I feel as if climbing has become much more broadly popular, and so an additional burden falls on more experienced climbers and route setters. Ensuring a climb is safe and accessible is just the modern way of doing it, and perhaps the more 'old school' leave it be mentality no longer fits. You and Bobby both do amazing work. Both with informing new climbers and your work ethic.
Bobby is an awesome human for sure. My wife and I took a couple anchor building classes he taught at REI, then he took us to his other project wall up on 88. Super fun and super safe enough.
Nice work Bobby! Those bolts look beeeeautiful. Here's my opinion on how to keep an area pristine as long as possible: 1. Build the base belay/hangout areas really well, this is what gets the most worked over time. Avoid having a belay stance at a tree root, or make a retaining wall out of the rocks your going to toss off the cliff to retain the soil. 2. Clean the hell out of the rock face, no one wants to pull of a block, and no one wants to rush a friend to the hospital. 3. Sweep off those belay ledges! This includes the top of the climb, in my local area there are so many potential concussions/brain blasters at the anchors, but now that it's a popular area it is next to impossible to clear them 4. Make your bolts bomber af!! Love the stuff y'all, keep it going!
I love you guys. I climbed Emigrant Wall in October with my son and was really impressed with the quality of your work. I am a 30+ year climbing-veteran looking to contribute to moderate route development. These are the best videos on developing routes that I have found. I will make sure to send some money your way. If you are looking for help this spring, I am looking for a mentor : )
Rap bolting is perfect for sport climbing. Lead bolting only if there is no real access to the top of the crag. This is the best way to bolt a route and the safest as well. My ethic is to leave to the climbing community a route that is safe to climb regardless of the grade. With my bolting buddy, when we spot a potential route, we place the anchor and we top rope it several times. Each of us chalk marks on the solid rock the best spot for the bolts while climbing. We then agree on the best spot if there are different points of view. We experienced that rap bolting without having top rope climbed the route previously may somtimes force you to re-position bolts .
Yeah, thanks a lot for your hard work, people like you make this sport and it's community amazing. Also thanks for trying to bolt as non scary as possible. I'm one of the people that's really not all that comfortable with heights and bigger falls, so routes like this allow me to have a lot more fun.
I have now watched a huge number of clips by these two. First thing is to acknowledge not only the great service they provide but also the humor and quality of information that they impart...well done!! Specifically I will make these comments. As a person who also finds and develops new cliffs I applaud the thoughtfulness that goes into Bobby's efforts. He is the type of "Huggy Bear" character that you could ,stupidly assume was a little child-like...HUGE mistake. He is always incredibly mindful, thoughtful and very well informed....and that is MOST critical when developing cliffs...because EVERY thing you do is permanent and could, if done wrongly or insensitively, could ruin the area and the reputation of climbers as a whole group. It is especially-so when embarking on such activities on private land or crown/national parks etc where doing something "officially" is probably either very unlikely or impossible. These guys aren't perfect...neither is the rock in this particular clip...BUT, they work very hard to be as well informed, careful and considered as-is possible. Our job isn't to cherry-pick for errors, but to enjoy what's good and perhaps add to the discussion as-to what could be even better. I would suggest a 30 liter rope-bag, that has its own wide waist-belt attachment, this allows a safe abseil without getting the rope...tangled, damaged, wet or what-ever. I made one from a Dry-bag, rolled down a few times, to stiffen the top rim...it has made an enormous difference when doing awkward abseils, it also keeps the rope away from dribbling glue-guns! Personally, I prefer to stay on Jumar as I'm going back UP the route. I can still rehearse the moves to get a "feel" for where protection and anchors are needed. I find that having my weight on the rope, THE WHOLE TIME is less stressful and does a lot LESS DAMAGE to my abseil rope. Some would argue that point, but don't kid yourself, if you're on an abseil rope...you are NOT leading the route. These guys ( especially Bobby I think ) have set SO MANY BOLTS that I'm not going to pass any comment, other than...I totally trust his experience and his assertions!...same goes for his decisions about spacing and route-setting. The issue of how to "OUT" a new area??. This is fraught with problems...yes, it is good to spread the crowds. However, I think it's critical to also ensure people can still have an adventure, so I prefer to only take people I know to my areas. If others "Discover them" then that's absolutely fine, and they will get a pleasant surprise to boot. I don't really want to get into Guide-books for a similar reason....if you can't assess a route from below ( or via abseil ) then you shouldn't be trying it. Let's not just keep "Dumbing things down"...let climbers develop the senses/judgment they need...that includes cautious assessment. Sure, once an area IS popular, then a guide is a very reasonable idea and essential if you're creating an area SPECIFICALLY for beginners ( which Bobby often is ) I guess I'm trying to create safe areas where "Adventure climbing" is still feasible...ie in-obvious access, complex route-finding and adequate, though thoughtful protection. If we DO create a climb, then let's ensure that the general safety of the route ( amount of protection we supply ) is COMMENSURATE with the difficulty of the climb, and WHO IS LIKELY to be doing it. Not all of us are bold, high-end climbers. By the same token, let's not ruin an easy or moderate climb with excessive protection. Enough from me, Again, very well done. If I ever get over there I'll look you guys up.
I am old enough to know that I am not young enough to rock climb or even healthy enough to do if I were.with being said were you you at some 30+ years go so I could....lol I find these videos very interesting and informative. Thanks for share your knowledge on this to make me want to find out more. Thanks guys shout out to Bobby for doing what he is doing, great idea to go this way instead of pushing people who are newer to rock climbing.
I like how Bobby works on rock and I wanted to go for bolting after watching him! :D nice job guys, you gave a lot useful information and showed that, which is really important. Keep it ging.
Nice work guys. Maybe a sequel going into the complex considerations of deciding on the line, path of least resistance, possible value of top roping the potential terrain first, bolt location so to avoid foot holds, fall away from the rope below, trying to avoid changing sides , bolt positions to avoid getting the rope behind the leg, potentials for rope drag, placement for the draw to hang free and not potentially load a biner over an edge.Im sure theres way more that I'm unaware of that developers would be very keen to learn. Great job, well done.
My input on revealing a new area is baby steps. Revel it to a group you know is responsible about upkeep and preservation both in access and route quality. Crowd source it to the responsible core and trust they intro it to less responsible groups with the added tag line about new areas and IF WE want to KEEP it then WE should nurture it as it deserves. There’s a lot of respectable folks out there it’s combining the mature keepers of pristine new areas with the masses that blindly pollute them and access to them in various ways. Serious props for crowd sourcing a solution to that issue. And I’d welcome any content on how I myself can do my part and respectfully encourage others to do theirs. Both at the crag and from home. Thanks for taking the time to produce and share this content to both Bobby and Ryan and anyone else involved.
As someone from the caving world, who goes into virgin passage fairly often and has to deal with freaky unstable stuff...... I actually had to double take that they weren't be sarcastic about grooming the rocks. TIL there are people who are against that??? I'm not saying micro-shave or blast the crag, but like-- if it can be moved with a rock bar then it can come down on someone. @.@ Fun side story (if anyone cares): The one and only cave rescue I have been on was a snapped femur from a large rock at the top of a pitch in a virgin area of the cave falling down onto a guy's leg. Snapped it clean in half. It took us 12 hours to move him the 500-ish horizontal feet and ~300 vertical feet (split across four different roped sections) out of the cave.... and that was a lightning fast, perfectly executed rescue.
@@rachelhasbruises Micro shave or blast the crag. Hilarious. I agree with leave no trace & all that but the people who would cry over hucking a few sketchy flakes ( that could hurt someone) are an embarrassment.
@@rachelhasbruises SO you ruin virgin caves by grooming them? So no other person in the history of the world will ever get to see them as they were original. Yeah, nice of you. Enjoy your adventures while you destroy the earth.
The whole sport of rock climbing is just stupid and for white thrill seekers. There shouldn't be corny ass holes and bolts in natural rock features, it's only this stupid community of people that think people should just naturally be climbing on these rocks and installing holes and bolts like its a playground gym. Go get a real hobby, this sport is for neurotic people
Doesn't matter much what u do. As soon as you make it public. Some of it is out of your control. But every developer should know this. You are changing the rock and the area for the foreseeable future😉
seeing how systematically Bobby works, I think cleaning the hole is part of his process to make sure that he feels totally comfortable with everything, looking into the future. If the hole cleans out quickly and nicely: Good, not much time taken. The cleaning is somehow difficult: Why does it take so long - is that rock really good enough?
I wish some bolters would half as much thought as you guys did in this video. It's a small number of routes but you can tell that they had no experience or technique. Really appreciate the hard/expensive work Bobby! Let me know when your guide book comes out, I'll make sure to order one! As for the approach trail, I would mark it extremely well, almost to the point of over-marking it. If the trail is marked really well, I just stay on it following the most obvious line to the crag. It's when the guide book says "turn right at the big rock" where you see multiple paths taken. Also take into account the approach from crag back to the car, make sure that it is super obvious too because some climbers(myself included) will sometimes leave the crag after sundown. This will keep the bushwhacking to a minimum. Not sure if reflectors are allowed per local rules but I've seen that at some crags too.
I rarely leave a climbing area before sundown, making the trail easy to find and follow in the dark is key to keeping people on trail. Mark the start of the trail with some nice big cairns, and have regular cairns on the trail. It's even better if the sides of the trail are lined with rocks. There is a developer of an area local to me (Fairview Mountain in Apple Valley, CA) who does a phenomenal job on the trails. They are easy enough to follow that on nights with a good moon, one does not even need their headlamp.
I’ve really enjoyed these bolting videos. I’m a climber just getting outdoors more frequently and learning how the route setting process works is real interesting. Thanks.
I’m not even a climber or an athlete but been binge watching all your videos and others for the past couple days. This is SOO COOL BOBBY!!’ Wow oh my god I want to learn how to climb and just climb this path you set up. Wow that’s so fucking cool you are developing a mountain side. I wish I could help somehow.
Bobby is so wholesome in these videos. Guy just wants people to have fun and be safe. Trundling seems safe when you can see the bottom and know there is no one below. IF you cant see the bottom because of an overhang or foliage, or whatever, I think a haul bag rigged to be tipped out should be lowered to the bottom if possible. EDIT: For thoughts on how to reveal an area without ruining it: I dont believe you can prevent something from being ruined by people. It is sort of what we do. Until the prevailing culture in the US and abroad prioritizes stewardship of our environments and minimizing impact, people will continue to shit everything up. HOWEVER, areas like these, and increased access to areas like this SUBSTANTIALLY increase the likelihood that people will treat the environment with care. People don't take care of things they dont feel connected to. Bobby and other boltslingers out there are doing a lot for environment by facilitating the relationship people have with the environment. And, to the extent that these bolts are an eyesore or are an unnatural addition or violate "leave no trace" I believe this is the small evil that paves the way for great good to be done. Cheers
I'm an old climber from the past. Free climbing was considered the best, "leave the rock the way you found it"!! Bolting was frowned on. I'm not judging you guys at all, just pointing out that times have changed I guess. I grew up climbing in the Gunks, Seneca, Eldorado Canyon, and Joshua Tree. If we couldn't protect it clean, we didn't climb it. Maybe it was just the era of climbing that I grew up in.
Yeah it is interesting how what is accepted and expected evolve over time as the things change. One of the gentlemen who wrote some of the early articles advocating free climbing is a friend of mine. Surprisingly or not he is actually super supportive of the way I develop.
A battery powered leaf blower is a total game changer And yes, Take off everything that you can pound or pry off. A carjack works well for the big ones. I also use a gri gri with backup knots. Super efficient
Cleaning the rock is definitely the safest option so that gets my vote. I also appreciate you caring about the safety of how climbers will clip. There are way too many climbs that are awesome but either run-out or have super sketch fall potentials, and they suck. I'd much rather climb a route and not just be worried about breaking my ankles. One last suggestion, as a 5'5" climber I have found myself on plenty of climbs where the "stance clip" is out of reach.
17:30 I totally agree about setting clipping stances for my less tall climbing partners. My trick is if I can reach the placement with the tip of my elbow most climbers should be able to reach it.
@@bobbyhutton1989 Thank you. I'm now mostly belaying under 5' climbers and there is nothing sadder to them than having the crux be reaching the clip. There are workarounds, like pre-hanging extended draws and other tricks, which is worth it on hard projects, but it's really nice when it's clear the route developers take these things into consideration.
Hey guys, is that the marina over Bobby’s left shoulder, I think I can see the mast of my boat! Anyway, hope you guys will bolt Duval Street as there have been many times I could not navigate it without repeatedly falling. Being able to clip in with one hand while leaving the other free to manage a hurricane glass would be very helpful. And having the area well bolted would give folks a handy way to tie down their boats during the actual Hurricane season. Oh, and good to see Bobby back out doing what he is so good at!!
Thank you for the video. Links are very useful, I also try to lay new routes. As a volunteer. And from watching you do it, it's very interesting, the bolt links are especially helpful. Bo this is probably the most difficult question in Ukraine. Everything that is sold under the hardwood potodu. Before that, I put a construction stud with an ear, Or industrial anchors, so that the length was 25 cm at stations, at 20 points, like sandstone is very loose, especially after rain.
I've heard of a horror story of someone bolting a route on lead rockfall cut his rope and he fell, We were also discussing lead or rapp bolting, rapp seems much safer. Probly shouldn't trundle rocks unless it's for safety reasons, but if it's perfectly safe once or twice to check it off the list seems ok. I also have the same issues with opening an area that's in the Caribbean, government approval is added to the list, sick vids you guys rock!!
Its funny how times have changed. As an older person bolting was looked at as pretty much criminal. I can see how it makes many more routes possible for the the average person. I think the internet has made most places well known. I used to take my kids canoeing overnight in Maine and it was peaceful and relaxing, now its a shit show. I back country ski the hardwoods of New England and I share my stashes with no one but my closest friends. The internet has helped me in so many ways so I am not a hater but keeping things a secret it is not one of them. Nice video and enjoy your climb.
Slowly let the area get exposed by taking friends you trust there and then when the area seems ready put it on MP but give it a very specific page with good instructions.
Almost exactly how I do it. Looks great. Bobby needs to make himself a glue gun holster! A bosuns chair is also worth the weight and cost. Saved my legs many hours of "harness pain".
Trundling. The best thing to do with your clothes on. Here in Scotland as long as you can see the run out then its expected to horf that rock of. Leaving loose rock is seen as bad mojo.
Awesome work you guys!! I think the most important thing in protecting a new area as you develop it would be to have a well made and marked trail system, nice belay spots that consider drainage for water, and if it’s gonna be a very popular area a composting toilet at the trailhead is important.
Thanks Gavyn. Composting Toilet is a good thought. I will have to check into the feasibility and legality of that in this spot. I think i spent more time doing trail work and belay platforms this summer than new routing. I got some help and instruction from one of the professional trail builders at the access fund, but am still figuring it all out.
just gotta keep it amongst the cool climbers, it’ll be a slow spread but that’s the only way to keep it pure. me and my friends have managed to keep ~most~ of the stuck up dentists on $12k bikes who smooth out berms and change features off our trails by only telling people we met and agree we can trust not to ruin our stuff
I love that bobby doesnt care about first ascents, where I am the Person who established the routes at a crag kept a project open for 1 1/2 years before opening it up, and I never saw him work7ng the route when he was there, and it was what I would call a genuine test piece 5.13a with multiple cruxes and little to no rest climbing inbetween.
I have to ask since I live in south florida. Is it some type of running joke with climbers to say that their "secret" area is in Key west since it's obvious that no climbing route would exist in south Florida. Unless it's a trash hill.
Hi amazing video as always and we love bob. About the revealing a new area you can make an application that can be for free for members in some climbing groop og pay a fee of for reveling new rutes. give the aproximatly area and general info about the climbing rute and if some one wants to come have to get the location by gps and be registered the time and date he was there. As well beafor and after the stay on area take some picks that can show if was clean wen they arive and they leave it clean wen they leave.
Another great video! I think spreading it by word of mouth is fine for a while. Start broadening the scope of people that know about it and at the same time set up a good system to care for the area. I’m sure eventually it will become public just due to natural progression.
Some strange reason I like Bobby doing a route. I lived through the bolt wars around the eastern slope around Denver. Though this area and rock quality to me suxs. But appreciate the effort. Also never have I climbed a bolted route trad or alpine.
my hammer is always out dangling lmao Bobby is a hard worker and we are lucky to have people like him that care enough to do things right and safe thank you Bobby as well as you to Ryan for all the shit you have taught me with your videos
Thanks for the video and thanks to Bobby for what looks like incredible work developing areas. That said, as a climber I am not sure this rock would be something I'd want to climb if I have other choices... That may be due to my climbing experience which is limited to granite (NE of the US), limestone (in Europe), gneiss (NE of the US), schist (NE of the US) and a mix of powdery limestone and flint (Connelles crag by the Seine river in France). That last one looks similar meaning nodules in a matrix of softer rock and while all the other rocks were great, the only good thing about that rock was that there was a climbable crag not too far from Paris but the experience was really bad. So my question is: is it really as bad as it looks and is there not too far some area with better rock type?
Thanks, We just got one of those tools at work, I have yet to play with it. Not sure the ease of use is worth the weight cost for most of the bolting I do. -Bobby
It seems the most obvious trundling safety procedure enhancement in public space would be to place a circle of labeled "traffic cones" or something similar. That might be quite a difficult area to cordon off depending on where the route is. An outdoor passive infrared detector can sometimes reach something like 150 meters, though I'm not sure this would give you an ideal sense of whether or not someone were in any ad hoc location, & I know I wouldn't want to drop rocks on one. It might be difficult to determine where exactly the coverage is. The thought of lowering something like that down another rope, or even flying it somewhere out of reach of the rocks but still covering the danger zone with a little quadcopter would be the way to really over-engineer the thing. 🐱 You can find reports on the effectiveness of that kind of equipment in some current decade workplace safety surveys, where this kind of issue is an extremely common concern.
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I love how thoughtfully and logically Bobby approaches everything. He’s the kinda guy I’d want setting routes for me 😊.
i dont know if you guys have revealed this spot yet, but what you should do when the spot is ready, bring your friend and have a bbq as a grand opening and then organically people will hear about it and start to come over time. you dont want to do it over the web because everyone and there mother will trash the place, whether they mean to or not.
bobbie is the man!!!!
In my book, Bobby is an absolute legend.
I find his attitude and dedication for precision as well as detail to be very inspiring. And the investments he makes into the community (time, effort and money as well) are mindblowing. Such a calm, positive and selfless character.
I had a blast watching you two.
Thanks for sharing
Thanks Bobby. I would enjoy climbing the routes you make.
Never met Bobby. My recreation culture admires exploration.
More so when their cartography is verified. Routes are what
porters use to supply their first base camp (about 12 hours of
mountaineering travel expertise from the nearest sunlight).
Given that 100 miles of cartography has been completed.
I don't have any interest in climbing. I have no idea how I got here. But dang Bobby that work ethic and attention to detail impressed the poo poo out of me. Well played good sir.
Watching again as revision on logistics because I don't place glue-in, normally mechanical, but I'm planning something... Anyway, noticed at about 11:45 Bobby mentioning putting in a trail to the access road. Wow, he's also creating trails? This guy just promoted from hero to Saint. From this day on he will be known as Saint Bobby!!!
. . . Patron saint of rock climbing . . .
Men like Bobby are an excellent addition to mankind .
Your buddy Bobby is a saint...seems like a good dude.
I am all for making as small an impact as possible, but trundling to make a place safer is 100% ok, particularly if it is expected to be a high traffic area. As a geologist, I know that any rock that is loose enough for a human to pull down is already pretty much ready to go in the geologic time frame. No reason to fret much over it
i would only change like, a few decades, which isn't much is it?
Did you see him hammering away? You are an embarrassment to the study.
In the geologic timeframe *every* rock is ready to go.
If a human can pull it down, then in the geologic timeframe it is already going 🤣👏
The geologic time frame could easily be eight-hundred generations of rock squirrel habitats.
@@steelonius the humans will bring them snacks
Here goes my opinion:
- Rap bolting is the best way to bolt sport routes. Safer and better placed bolts are a benefit of this.
- Definitely take off every piece of loose rock from the wall. Much more likely to have someone hurt from unexpected rock fall than from route cleaning.
- Bobs anchor is amazing. Best setup I've seen so far.
You guys do amazing work! Keep it up!
Helmets help too. That rock seemed more crumbly than most.
I feel as if climbing has become much more broadly popular, and so an additional burden falls on more experienced climbers and route setters. Ensuring a climb is safe and accessible is just the modern way of doing it, and perhaps the more 'old school' leave it be mentality no longer fits. You and Bobby both do amazing work. Both with informing new climbers and your work ethic.
I feel really safe on sport climbs like these. So great to have.
Bobby is an awesome human for sure. My wife and I took a couple anchor building classes he taught at REI, then he took us to his other project wall up on 88. Super fun and super safe enough.
Nice work Bobby! Those bolts look beeeeautiful.
Here's my opinion on how to keep an area pristine as long as possible:
1. Build the base belay/hangout areas really well, this is what gets the most worked over time. Avoid having a belay stance at a tree root, or make a retaining wall out of the rocks your going to toss off the cliff to retain the soil.
2. Clean the hell out of the rock face, no one wants to pull of a block, and no one wants to rush a friend to the hospital.
3. Sweep off those belay ledges! This includes the top of the climb, in my local area there are so many potential concussions/brain blasters at the anchors, but now that it's a popular area it is next to impossible to clear them
4. Make your bolts bomber af!!
Love the stuff y'all, keep it going!
Bobby really is one of the best. Excellent video as usual!
I really enjoy the energy you two have, when Bobby is in his natural element.
I love you guys. I climbed Emigrant Wall in October with my son and was really impressed with the quality of your work. I am a 30+ year climbing-veteran looking to contribute to moderate route development. These are the best videos on developing routes that I have found. I will make sure to send some money your way. If you are looking for help this spring, I am looking for a mentor : )
Rap bolting is perfect for sport climbing. Lead bolting only if there is no real access to the top of the crag. This is the best way to bolt a route and the safest as well. My ethic is to leave to the climbing community a route that is safe to climb regardless of the grade. With my bolting buddy, when we spot a potential route, we place the anchor and we top rope it several times. Each of us chalk marks on the solid rock the best spot for the bolts while climbing. We then agree on the best spot if there are different points of view.
We experienced that rap bolting without having top rope climbed the route previously may somtimes force you to re-position bolts .
Bobby, I think it is great that you bolt routs that allows people to have fun with ! Not everyone wants to be a pro.
Yeah, thanks a lot for your hard work, people like you make this sport and it's community amazing.
Also thanks for trying to bolt as non scary as possible. I'm one of the people that's really not all that comfortable with heights and bigger falls, so routes like this allow me to have a lot more fun.
One of your best videos ever? Yea, cleaning a new route is a bit of a hassle but it's the right thing to do. Thanks Bobby for furthering the sport.
I have now watched a huge number of clips by these two. First thing is to acknowledge not only the great service they provide but also the humor and quality of information that they impart...well done!!
Specifically I will make these comments. As a person who also finds and develops new cliffs I applaud the thoughtfulness that goes into Bobby's efforts. He is the type of "Huggy Bear" character that you could ,stupidly assume was a little child-like...HUGE mistake. He is always incredibly mindful, thoughtful and very well informed....and that is MOST critical when developing cliffs...because EVERY thing you do is permanent and could, if done wrongly or insensitively, could ruin the area and the reputation of climbers as a whole group.
It is especially-so when embarking on such activities on private land or crown/national parks etc where doing something "officially" is probably either very unlikely or impossible.
These guys aren't perfect...neither is the rock in this particular clip...BUT, they work very hard to be as well informed, careful and considered as-is possible. Our job isn't to cherry-pick for errors, but to enjoy what's good and perhaps add to the discussion as-to what could be even better.
I would suggest a 30 liter rope-bag, that has its own wide waist-belt attachment, this allows a safe abseil without getting the rope...tangled, damaged, wet or what-ever. I made one from a Dry-bag, rolled down a few times, to stiffen the top rim...it has made an enormous difference when doing awkward abseils, it also keeps the rope away from dribbling glue-guns!
Personally, I prefer to stay on Jumar as I'm going back UP the route. I can still rehearse the moves to get a "feel" for where protection and anchors are needed. I find that having my weight on the rope, THE WHOLE TIME is less stressful and does a lot LESS DAMAGE to my abseil rope. Some would argue that point, but don't kid yourself, if you're on an abseil rope...you are NOT leading the route.
These guys ( especially Bobby I think ) have set SO MANY BOLTS that I'm not going to pass any comment, other than...I totally trust his experience and his assertions!...same goes for his decisions about spacing and route-setting.
The issue of how to "OUT" a new area??. This is fraught with problems...yes, it is good to spread the crowds. However, I think it's critical to also ensure people can still have an adventure, so I prefer to only take people I know to my areas. If others "Discover them" then that's absolutely fine, and they will get a pleasant surprise to boot. I don't really want to get into Guide-books for a similar reason....if you can't assess a route from below ( or via abseil ) then you shouldn't be trying it. Let's not just keep "Dumbing things down"...let climbers develop the senses/judgment they need...that includes cautious assessment. Sure, once an area IS popular, then a guide is a very reasonable idea and essential if you're creating an area SPECIFICALLY for beginners ( which Bobby often is ) I guess I'm trying to create safe areas where "Adventure climbing" is still feasible...ie in-obvious access, complex route-finding and adequate, though thoughtful protection.
If we DO create a climb, then let's ensure that the general safety of the route ( amount of protection we supply ) is COMMENSURATE with the difficulty of the climb, and WHO IS LIKELY to be doing it. Not all of us are bold, high-end climbers. By the same token, let's not ruin an easy or moderate climb with excessive protection.
Enough from me, Again, very well done. If I ever get over there I'll look you guys up.
I am old enough to know that I am not young enough to rock climb or even healthy enough to do if I were.with being said were you you at some 30+ years go so I could....lol I find these videos very interesting and informative. Thanks for share your knowledge on this to make me want to find out more. Thanks guys shout out to Bobby for doing what he is doing, great idea to go this way instead of pushing people who are newer to rock climbing.
I like how Bobby works on rock and I wanted to go for bolting after watching him! :D
nice job guys, you gave a lot useful information and showed that, which is really important. Keep it ging.
Thanks for the shout out !! :-) Great video guys!! Keep it up :-)
fantastic job and finally I know how its done and even more how much effort, time and money goes into all these awesome climbs (thank you all)
Nice work guys. Maybe a sequel going into the complex considerations of deciding on the line, path of least resistance, possible value of top roping the potential terrain first, bolt location so to avoid foot holds, fall away from the rope below, trying to avoid changing sides , bolt positions to avoid getting the rope behind the leg, potentials for rope drag, placement for the draw to hang free and not potentially load a biner over an edge.Im sure theres way more that I'm unaware of that developers would be very keen to learn. Great job, well done.
My input on revealing a new area is baby steps. Revel it to a group you know is responsible about upkeep and preservation both in access and route quality. Crowd source it to the responsible core and trust they intro it to less responsible groups with the added tag line about new areas and IF WE want to KEEP it then WE should nurture it as it deserves. There’s a lot of respectable folks out there it’s combining the mature keepers of pristine new areas with the masses that blindly pollute them and access to them in various ways. Serious props for crowd sourcing a solution to that issue. And I’d welcome any content on how I myself can do my part and respectfully encourage others to do theirs. Both at the crag and from home. Thanks for taking the time to produce and share this content to both Bobby and Ryan and anyone else involved.
Route cleaning is by far the responsible tuning to do. F the hippies who want to leave the rocks alone. Them shits kill, thanks for removing them!
As someone from the caving world, who goes into virgin passage fairly often and has to deal with freaky unstable stuff...... I actually had to double take that they weren't be sarcastic about grooming the rocks. TIL there are people who are against that???
I'm not saying micro-shave or blast the crag, but like-- if it can be moved with a rock bar then it can come down on someone. @.@
Fun side story (if anyone cares):
The one and only cave rescue I have been on was a snapped femur from a large rock at the top of a pitch in a virgin area of the cave falling down onto a guy's leg. Snapped it clean in half.
It took us 12 hours to move him the 500-ish horizontal feet and ~300 vertical feet (split across four different roped sections) out of the cave.... and that was a lightning fast, perfectly executed rescue.
@@rachelhasbruises Micro shave or blast the crag. Hilarious. I agree with leave no trace & all that but the people who would cry over hucking a few sketchy flakes ( that could hurt someone) are an embarrassment.
@@rachelhasbruises SO you ruin virgin caves by grooming them? So no other person in the history of the world will ever get to see them as they were original. Yeah, nice of you. Enjoy your adventures while you destroy the earth.
The whole sport of rock climbing is just stupid and for white thrill seekers. There shouldn't be corny ass holes and bolts in natural rock features, it's only this stupid community of people that think people should just naturally be climbing on these rocks and installing holes and bolts like its a playground gym. Go get a real hobby, this sport is for neurotic people
These idiots 👆😂😂😂
Doesn't matter much what u do. As soon as you make it public. Some of it is out of your control. But every developer should know this. You are changing the rock and the area for the foreseeable future😉
it is mindboggling that this Chanel isn't sponsored by a company like Patagonia
Bobby's freaking amazing! Thanks for all the effort!
seeing how systematically Bobby works, I think cleaning the hole is part of his process to make sure that he feels totally comfortable with everything, looking into the future. If the hole cleans out quickly and nicely: Good, not much time taken. The cleaning is somehow difficult: Why does it take so long - is that rock really good enough?
I wish some bolters would half as much thought as you guys did in this video. It's a small number of routes but you can tell that they had no experience or technique. Really appreciate the hard/expensive work Bobby! Let me know when your guide book comes out, I'll make sure to order one!
As for the approach trail, I would mark it extremely well, almost to the point of over-marking it. If the trail is marked really well, I just stay on it following the most obvious line to the crag. It's when the guide book says "turn right at the big rock" where you see multiple paths taken. Also take into account the approach from crag back to the car, make sure that it is super obvious too because some climbers(myself included) will sometimes leave the crag after sundown. This will keep the bushwhacking to a minimum. Not sure if reflectors are allowed per local rules but I've seen that at some crags too.
All good thoughts. Spent more time on trails this year than routes. Super good point about making trails easy to follow after dark.
I rarely leave a climbing area before sundown, making the trail easy to find and follow in the dark is key to keeping people on trail. Mark the start of the trail with some nice big cairns, and have regular cairns on the trail. It's even better if the sides of the trail are lined with rocks.
There is a developer of an area local to me (Fairview Mountain in Apple Valley, CA) who does a phenomenal job on the trails. They are easy enough to follow that on nights with a good moon, one does not even need their headlamp.
@@patrickmclean8617 I love the work that Jay is doing at Fairview. In my opinion that area is a model for how crags should be developed.
this video is a real pleasure to watch
It’s so interesting to learn about bolting. Thank you for the work you do. 🙏
Love that this content exists. Keep up the good work dudes!
I’ve really enjoyed these bolting videos. I’m a climber just getting outdoors more frequently and learning how the route setting process works is real interesting. Thanks.
I’m not even a climber or an athlete but been binge watching all your videos and others for the past couple days. This is SOO COOL BOBBY!!’ Wow oh my god I want to learn how to climb and just climb this path you set up. Wow that’s so fucking cool you are developing a mountain side. I wish I could help somehow.
Bobby is so wholesome in these videos. Guy just wants people to have fun and be safe. Trundling seems safe when you can see the bottom and know there is no one below. IF you cant see the bottom because of an overhang or foliage, or whatever, I think a haul bag rigged to be tipped out should be lowered to the bottom if possible.
EDIT: For thoughts on how to reveal an area without ruining it: I dont believe you can prevent something from being ruined by people. It is sort of what we do. Until the prevailing culture in the US and abroad prioritizes stewardship of our environments and minimizing impact, people will continue to shit everything up. HOWEVER, areas like these, and increased access to areas like this SUBSTANTIALLY increase the likelihood that people will treat the environment with care. People don't take care of things they dont feel connected to. Bobby and other boltslingers out there are doing a lot for environment by facilitating the relationship people have with the environment. And, to the extent that these bolts are an eyesore or are an unnatural addition or violate "leave no trace" I believe this is the small evil that paves the way for great good to be done. Cheers
Well said.
I'm an old climber from the past. Free climbing was considered the best, "leave the rock the way you found it"!! Bolting was frowned on. I'm not judging you guys at all, just pointing out that times have changed I guess. I grew up climbing in the Gunks, Seneca, Eldorado Canyon, and Joshua Tree. If we couldn't protect it clean, we didn't climb it. Maybe it was just the era of climbing that I grew up in.
Yeah it is interesting how what is accepted and expected evolve over time as the things change. One of the gentlemen who wrote some of the early articles advocating free climbing is a friend of mine. Surprisingly or not he is actually super supportive of the way I develop.
good on bobby! love to see the development of a spot. and good on you ryan for keeping it quiet and not exactly findable until its ready!
I was just drilling a project today. Sunshine and snow on the ground. Perfect for developing routes. Thanks for the great video.
When Bobby pushes you and tells you to stay, you stay.
it's just really pleasant to watch the two of you
Bobby respects the rock.
Just bolted my first outdoor route last month and it was rapp bolting, great videoa
This is just what I was waiting for! I’m trying to establish my own top down routes in Birmingham AL! Thanks for your vids
Oh yeah? Where at? I'm also in TAG.
This was so informative! Gotta love how hard Saint Bobby works
I love the snowy mountains of Florida.
NOT a highliner, but I AM a fan of your vids. :)
A battery powered leaf blower is a total game changer
And yes, Take off everything that you can pound or pry off. A carjack works well for the big ones.
I also use a gri gri with backup knots. Super efficient
Even better than tying GriGriri back up knots is the GriGri Hitch. Fantastic way to go hands free! m.ua-cam.com/video/4ejys0eDan4/v-deo.html
Bobby you are the man . Much thanks
Cleaning the rock is definitely the safest option so that gets my vote. I also appreciate you caring about the safety of how climbers will clip. There are way too many climbs that are awesome but either run-out or have super sketch fall potentials, and they suck. I'd much rather climb a route and not just be worried about breaking my ankles.
One last suggestion, as a 5'5" climber I have found myself on plenty of climbs where the "stance clip" is out of reach.
17:30 I totally agree about setting clipping stances for my less tall climbing partners. My trick is if I can reach the placement with the tip of my elbow most climbers should be able to reach it.
@@bobbyhutton1989 Thank you. I'm now mostly belaying under 5' climbers and there is nothing sadder to them than having the crux be reaching the clip. There are workarounds, like pre-hanging extended draws and other tricks, which is worth it on hard projects, but it's really nice when it's clear the route developers take these things into consideration.
Hey guys, is that the marina over Bobby’s left shoulder, I think I can see the mast of my boat! Anyway, hope you guys will bolt Duval Street as there have been many times I could not navigate it without repeatedly falling. Being able to clip in with one hand while leaving the other free to manage a hurricane glass would be very helpful. And having the area well bolted would give folks a handy way to tie down their boats during the actual Hurricane season. Oh, and good to see Bobby back out doing what he is so good at!!
I thought elves made routes, turns out it's Bobby!
Go fund Bobby.
Imagine being born a 100 years from now and watching a guy build a route you're on who's now passed.
I just got to know that Bobby is a geologist???? Nice hammer man, I always carry it when I'm gonne cleaning hehehe, regards from Chile!
Thank you for the video. Links are very useful, I also try to lay new routes. As a volunteer. And from watching you do it, it's very interesting, the bolt links are especially helpful. Bo this is probably the most difficult question in Ukraine. Everything that is sold under the hardwood potodu. Before that, I put a construction stud with an ear, Or industrial anchors, so that the length was 25 cm at stations, at 20 points, like sandstone is very loose, especially after rain.
You guys are awesome for doing all this work.
Love these videos! Bobby is a legend
I've heard of a horror story of someone bolting a route on lead rockfall cut his rope and he fell, We were also discussing lead or rapp bolting, rapp seems much safer. Probly shouldn't trundle rocks unless it's for safety reasons, but if it's perfectly safe once or twice to check it off the list seems ok. I also have the same issues with opening an area that's in the Caribbean, government approval is added to the list, sick vids you guys rock!!
Its funny how times have changed. As an older person bolting was looked at as pretty much criminal. I can see how it makes many more routes possible for the the average person. I think the internet has made most places well known. I used to take my kids canoeing overnight in Maine and it was peaceful and relaxing, now its a shit show. I back country ski the hardwoods of New England and I share my stashes with no one but my closest friends. The internet has helped me in so many ways so I am not a hater but keeping things a secret it is not one of them. Nice video and enjoy your climb.
Slowly let the area get exposed by taking friends you trust there and then when the area seems ready put it on MP but give it a very specific page with good instructions.
Almost exactly how I do it. Looks great. Bobby needs to make himself a glue gun holster! A bosuns chair is also worth the weight and cost. Saved my legs many hours of "harness pain".
Thank you Bob, truly inspiring.
Trundling. The best thing to do with your clothes on. Here in Scotland as long as you can see the run out then its expected to horf that rock of. Leaving loose rock is seen as bad mojo.
Bobby is the man!
Super interesting, and so satisfying to watch! Thank you.
Awesome work you guys!! I think the most important thing in protecting a new area as you develop it would be to have a well made and marked trail system, nice belay spots that consider drainage for water, and if it’s gonna be a very popular area a composting toilet at the trailhead is important.
Thanks Gavyn. Composting Toilet is a good thought. I will have to check into the feasibility and legality of that in this spot. I think i spent more time doing trail work and belay platforms this summer than new routing. I got some help and instruction from one of the professional trail builders at the access fund, but am still figuring it all out.
Word of mouth to reveal the new area! only tell trusted good people.. let the magic of it spread like it used to
just gotta keep it amongst the cool climbers, it’ll be a slow spread but that’s the only way to keep it pure. me and my friends have managed to keep ~most~ of the stuck up dentists on $12k bikes who smooth out berms and change features off our trails by only telling people we met and agree we can trust not to ruin our stuff
Bobby is a legend 🙌
You guys are awesome! And thanks for your Videos! Much appreciated. Bobby is a great dude! Greetings from Austria!
Routesetting! Awesome!
I love that bobby doesnt care about first ascents, where I am the Person who established the routes at a crag kept a project open for 1 1/2 years before opening it up, and I never saw him work7ng the route when he was there, and it was what I would call a genuine test piece 5.13a with multiple cruxes and little to no rest climbing inbetween.
I recognize that area of Key West exactly. It's just one block off Duval Street people! Let's go.
Boo. Its not ready yet.
I have to ask since I live in south florida.
Is it some type of running joke with climbers to say that their "secret" area is in Key west since it's obvious that no climbing route would exist in south Florida. Unless it's a trash hill.
Booking my flight to Florida to explore this new area soon.
Hi amazing video as always and we love bob.
About the revealing a new area you can make an application that can be for free for members in some climbing groop og pay a fee of for reveling new rutes. give the aproximatly area and general info about the climbing rute and if some one wants to come have to get the location by gps and be registered the time and date he was there.
As well beafor and after the stay on area take some picks that can show if was clean wen they arive and they leave it clean wen they leave.
Another great video! I think spreading it by word of mouth is fine for a while. Start broadening the scope of people that know about it and at the same time set up a good system to care for the area. I’m sure eventually it will become public just due to natural progression.
Some strange reason I like Bobby doing a route. I lived through the bolt wars around the eastern slope around Denver. Though this area and rock quality to me suxs. But appreciate the effort. Also never have I climbed a bolted route trad or alpine.
BOBBY FOR PRESIDENT!!!
Sensitive and sensible. Yes, he would be good.
this is awesome, nice job fellas
Nicely done . I cant help but wonder about possible application of that glue and anchor combo in urban concrete.
I'm having a hard time believing you guys are in the Florida Key West. Since when is there snow there?!?
lmao
thats_the_joke.jpg
good video appreciate yr guys' thorough work
godspeed bobby
What a legend!
I didn't know key west looked soo beautiful in the winter months.
my hammer is always out dangling lmao Bobby is a hard worker and we are lucky to have people like him that care enough to do things right and safe thank you Bobby as well as you to Ryan for all the shit you have taught me with your videos
The more I watch you guys, the more I want to hang out with Bobby, lost the mates? Who said shoes need to match.
Thanks for the video and thanks to Bobby for what looks like incredible work developing areas.
That said, as a climber I am not sure this rock would be something I'd want to climb if I have other choices...
That may be due to my climbing experience which is limited to granite (NE of the US), limestone (in Europe), gneiss (NE of the US), schist (NE of the US) and a mix of powdery limestone and flint (Connelles crag by the Seine river in France). That last one looks similar meaning nodules in a matrix of softer rock and while all the other rocks were great, the only good thing about that rock was that there was a climbable crag not too far from Paris but the experience was really bad.
So my question is: is it really as bad as it looks and is there not too far some area with better rock type?
Bobby...amazing job! Have you seen the Milwaukee Caulking Tool? Runs on 12v, they work great!
Thanks,
We just got one of those tools at work, I have yet to play with it. Not sure the ease of use is worth the weight cost for most of the bolting I do. -Bobby
@@HowNOT2 Amazon has a new caulking tool I just ordered called "siligun caulking gun" Very compact, .65lbs $30.
It seems the most obvious trundling safety procedure enhancement in public space would be to place a circle of labeled "traffic cones" or something similar.
That might be quite a difficult area to cordon off depending on where the route is.
An outdoor passive infrared detector can sometimes reach something like 150 meters, though I'm not sure this would give you an ideal sense of whether or not someone were in any ad hoc location, & I know I wouldn't want to drop rocks on one. It might be difficult to determine where exactly the coverage is.
The thought of lowering something like that down another rope, or even flying it somewhere out of reach of the rocks but still covering the danger zone with a little quadcopter would be the way to really over-engineer the thing. 🐱
You can find reports on the effectiveness of that kind of equipment in some current decade workplace safety surveys, where this kind of issue is an extremely common concern.
Good snow year in Key West 👏👏
Nice work Bobby
I never would have guessed that kinda of terrain and snow would be in Key West, FL...🤔😅
this channel is awesome.
"I pushed it back in and told it to stay, and it did."
Very good job.
Boby Rocks 🤘
18:40
We need a compilation of Bobby almost dropping all the bolts 😂