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Rey IS a Mary Sue, BUT THATS NOT THE PROBLEM - Star Wars The Last Jedi Rant
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- Опубліковано 19 гру 2017
- LAST JEDI SPOILERS! Is Rey A Mary Sue? Yes Rey IS a Mary Sue. But thats not the problem. The problem is, the HEROES JOURNEY has been broken in Star Wars Episode VIII. Rey vs Kylo Ren discussion too. Let's discuss!
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“Let the past die” they’re trying to say fuck all the other movies
Chill Out Dude that would be fine if it was executed well...
but then Rey steals all of the jedi books and that message was rejected by her after the Evil Kylo ren told her. Yeah Ok, they're definitely saying that.
To add on, so kill the past but steal it at the same time. so what gives.
Yes, while they shamelessly rehash Battle of Hoth and number of other things from previous movies, because they can't come up with something original. Makes me wanna puke.
"Let quality writing die" is how they want you to think.
TLJ summed up.
Luke : I hate my character.
Leia : Poe don’t do that.
Poe: Poe does that.
Rey : Aren’t I so quirky and awesome and perfect?! Girl power! The force is female!
Finn : I will give my life for my friends.
Rose : No. if you kill your enemies they win.
Kylo : I’m angry and sad but mostly angry.
Snoke : I am the most powerful being in the- *DEAD*
Phasma : I shall have my reveng- *DEAD*
Laura Dern : Why did they make my hair purple? What’s a tumblr?
Porg : I’m here to sell toys.
Yoda : Am I a puppet or CGI make up your fucking minds.
Disney/Kathleen Kennedy/Rian Johnson : $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Me : .....?
Girl who grew up on Jakku can swim first try.
bruh , never even thought about that. Wow.
The writer could have incorporated her lack of experience with water into the story. Turned it into a . . . . . "trial" of some sort, especially since she was actually undergoing a real trial at the time. We also never find out how she escaped from a cave whose only shown entrance was a hole in the roof.
😮
Catzilla Sorry, we can't let our delicate female characters suffer in anyway. The writer is a complete sexist who thinks females inhumanly perfect and can never suffer or have weaknesses.
Lol that reminds me in Legends Leia said she couldn’t swim.
Rey is like playing Skyrim with cheats. Cool at first glance, but very boring afterwards.
i would have liked her to play dark souls with no cheaats....
Diego Kaqui
Rey: "I can't play this game with ease this game is sexist"
says you lol
In episode 9 she will walk on water and turn green milk into blue milk
And she takes milk baths from the Thala Sirens of Ahch Too! Ha! Ha!
Rey as Christ....?........stripped naked on a cross?........I can see it.
Mike, I wouldn’t be surprised if that happened at this point.
Amusingly, people have pointed out that Rey knows how to swim despite coming from a desert planet. Yeah, in no way does she display skills she has no reason to have. Or maybe the force now teaches people to swim? ;)
you know it too.
Rey's full name is Rey Maus which is an anagram of Mary Sue.
Nemesis T-Type Ma-rey sue
Have Disney (The inventor of Mickey Mouse) throw in a powerful force user in ep. 9 called Maus, that she's related to. That would be fantastic !!
And so stupid
Her actual full name is Rey Palpatine now, but I'm pretty sure you should know that by now unless you really dont give a shit about the Sequels anymore
The Force Awakens
- Flies and knows the falcon better than han solo
- speaks wookie
- speaks droid
- over powers a trained jedi/sith's mind control attempts even though she didn't know the force was real 20 minutes earlier
- Han and Finn go to rescue Rey...OOPS! She's already rescued herself...nevermind.
- Beats up a trained jedi in a light saber fight
The Last Jedi
- goes to train with Luke, nevermind...she can already get the better of him in a stick fight..
- doesn't believe she can lift rocks, 30 minutes later lifts many rocks
- fights off the royal guard better than a trained sith/jedi. As a matter of fact, has to help HIM out...lawl!
explination for the ability to just naturally be able to do everything better than everyone in these movies?
"You are nobody. You come from nothing. Your parents were junk traders"
If that's not a Mary Sue, I don't know what is. I have no desire to see 9. I simply don't care anymore about this libtard agenda.
Extremely well said, the things I've been saying since I first saw The Force Awakens.
well said!
Luke bested Rey completely in the close quarters fight, it wasn't until Rey grabbed her lightsaber, Luke gave up.
You forgot that she apparently knows everything from the force according to Yoda. No need to read all the ancient Jedi texts or train! It was inside her all along. Fuck them for using Yoda to parade their shitty agenda. Disgraceful.
I know, i couldn't bring myself to watch them. Same for sw games too. They are killing the franchise.
If this force theory was right, Luke should've being as strong as Vader the first time he met him, and the force has never made ANYONE excel at fighting magically.
Anakin had to train hard to become skilled and he was the chosen one! Yet he still lost to Count Dooku and myself. Those losses showed that no one is invincible and that you need to earn your skill to become better!
Obi-Wan Kenobi to be fair he was blinded by arrogance and rage when you had the high ground and before his cybernetic vader body he relied mostly on his physical and saber skills than the force
Obi-Wan Kenobi
But you had the high ground no one can beat the high ground
The force enhances combat skills; it doesn't provide them when they don't already exist.
8:15 nailed it. The worst thing a writer can do is have a character or plot that makes people ask: "Why should I care?"
Rey hasn't had to earn anything yet. There's no struggle.
I thin there is also a wrong intermretation there, he said Rey is the protagonist, but she isen't Kylo is.
Rey is just a plot device in telling Kylos story.
If the force even allow Rey to die because of the automatic power matching system (tm), the light could just pick another random Miss Sue.
"Why should I care?"
The exact phrase in my mind the whole time watching Rogue One. Same reason I think it fails.
PoloBear
I think Rogue One was just purely for the sake of making a Star Wars film. It's fine to me because it's not listed as part of the main trilogies.
Fair enough. To me though the movie seemed more of a cash grab for Disney to showcase diversity (not saying its a bad thing) towards industries and audiences. I felt like the story as a singular suffered and was uninteresting.
Now (this is my own inner fanboy coming out) if they went with the discarded cannon of someone like Kyle Katarn, a defected stormtrooper turned smuggler who steals his former employees' plans that shows a weakness in their greatest ever weapon created. That to me instantly has more interest than Jyn Erso. They could of set up that character to link in with other movies of the franchise. Even if they made the Kyle character a woman, Kyle eventually goes on to become a powerful Jedi befriending Luke, who's to say if it were a woman she could of been Luke's love interest, maybe even had a child? Rey in the new trilogy maybe? Seemed like a lost opportunity to me.
Honestly I said the same thing after TFA, "she's not a Mary Sue, let's see I'm sure it will all be explained it 8" After TLJ " Yes she's a Mary Sue " lol
John McNamara Fans: She can't be a Mary sue. Can't she?
JJ Abrams: Hold my beer.
Except she never struggled at all in TFA. How is that not 'Mary Sue'? : P
Well, she was sort of a starving quasi-slave at the beginning.
I can accept she is capable of fighting because of the hostile environment of Jakku. But that rock lifting scene really stamped this character as Mary Sue. One day training and she becomes a Jedi.
I really thought that Leia was the one lifting the rocks. I mean she could use the Force in space so I thought she could do some rock lifting as well.
John McNamara
I hated having to debate people like you for 2 years, it annoyed me to no end that you couldn't see the obvious.
I like movies with a message like: You can accomplishe anything, if you train/work hard enough.
And Rey is like: You can accomplishe anything. Because... Reasons. Yes, that's a nice message.
xXSanijaXx yes, very basic messages
xXSanijaXx because women
bad character writing.
That was the point, just like with the stupid "force" boy at the end, pandering the "WE ARE ALL EQUAL AND EVERYONE CAN DO IT" crap...
xXSanijaXx so trueeee that movie sucked ,and my goodness,poor Luke
The amount of disrespect done to Luke Skywalker's charactar in this film is unforgivable. The writers clearly didn't understand nor give a sh*t about starwars and instead wanted cool visuals.
skywolf23 > Luke didn't abandon the rebellion. The rebellion was over. The empire was defeated. The republic was reestablished.
Tim Hare > That's getting common in big budget action flicks. The story doesn't matter if enough CGI effects are crammed in. Disney may not be the worst offender. Consider "Batman v Superman", and "Suicide Squad".
Tim Hare mark hated every bit of it
fluffimator it was in an interview he said he loved everyone’s part but his
The major common thread of this movie are the bad twist. It's as if they didn't care if they made any sense. All they cared about is that literally nobody would see them coming.
I complained about Rey being a Mary Sue in TFA, but that was in the context of "the only thing that really bothered me about TFA was that Rey was a Mary Sue, but her character can be redeemed by TLJ." After seeing TLJ, I now believe Rey is just Kathleen Kennedy's power fantasy.
cormyat07 watch her be able to weild both light and dark sides equally without sucumbing bc fuck you audience she can do.everything
Jacob Logan
That is called being a Grey Jedi, something from the EU many fans are hoping is being folded back into cannon with the new trilogy.
Prepare to be disappointed. Star Wars fans are the last people Disney is thinking about with this new tripe.
Can you imagine if Luke defeated Vader in the first film? It would completely negate him as a threat for Empire. I can't understand how I'm supposed to buy Kylo is a real threat. Weaker than Luke, Rey, Snoke etc.
I clap for your comment. Exactly. Kylo isn’t a threat at allllllllll
Brett Mills Kylo is just a pissy little boy who has a Vader complex.
Not only is Kylo not a threat, the First Order are a nobody bunch of chumps. Seriously, they have to only consist of a few Star Destroyers, otherwise they would have had more Star Destroyers (and another Dreadnought) jump in to cut off the escaping Resistance, rather like Vader did to the Rebels in "Rogue One."
The X-Treme Team I agree with everything you said about Rey in TFA except she caught him off guard. She literally overpowered him after swinging like a drunkard beforehand.
Being able to lift a lightsaber as opposed to defeating someone with TONS of training in combat are 2 very different things in my opinion.
And the Emperor died in the second movie
Finn would have made a better main protagonist than Rey. He lost in TFA against Kylo and he is constantly trying to run away. He could have been force sensitive but I guess Star Wars is all about Women now; it no longer focuses on storytelling, character development, or consistency. Did people actually think that Rey would turn to the dark side in this movie? That would require thought and creativity, which Disney lacks in both categories.
=Dragonderp69 All about woman! Idiot! Also female leads existed way before star wars 7 and 8 lol! Akame ga kills for one! female lead but still a good story. For star wars Ashoka, and Sabine. And no finn wouldn't had been a better character... He almost killed himself until his girl saved him lol! Finn loses to Kylo so badly! She has gotten stronger in this movie! Anyhow we saw more actions of luke against him than rey vs kylo lol! Most of the spotlight was Kylo! And in general, we have more male leads than woman
Lady Caeda The lead character is the MAIN character, not everyone else that has 'major' roles. Finn would have made a better lead because he has flaws, he's not as likeable as Luke or Han, but he could have done it. Ahsoka was a good lead because she also had flaws and became a fleshed out character as time went on, the Rebels show sucks.
A former stormtrooper turned Jedi would have been pretty interesting actually. Maybe it would have lead to Phasma being a good antagonist as well.
Ash word. I thought it was gonna be Finn for the lead when I watched the first. I didnt pay any attention to trailers so it was a legit surprise.
But I was willing to roll with a female lead. I'm not the sexist type. Watch many Asian movies and shows and female leads are awesome.
But by the end of Force Awakens I KNEW they were gonna go this route. I was walking out of theatres basically describing what the next movie would be like. And all of these comments since have proven that I'm basically a psychic.
I haven't even seen this one. And every video and comment about this movie is just about everything I described.
Agon Leed Yeah a female protagonist could have been great too, but everything gets handed to her on a silver platter.
No hardwork = ultimate jedi
Is what i got out of rey
Guess nobody should try at anything because you are just "good at stuff" naturally
Considering her amount of training, I think that it is a miracle she even knows how to wield a lightsaber without hurting herself.
I wanted Rey's training to be a big part of the movie and they threw it away.
Just checking, but didn't Luke promise three lessons? I only remember two... Not like she needed them
Training is for men only. Since Rey is a waman, she already is gifted with all superiority one can ask for.
Klufh me too man. I enjoyed TLJ and TFA to a degree but the flaws, shoe horning and blatant disrespect to the original cannon is disgraceful imo. So much wasted potential and the destruction of what made star wars great in the first place. Such a fucking shame. But, oh well, apparently it’s all for the kids now.
They should make a adult SW that focuses on Vader in between ep 3 and rogue one. It’s so simple but they won’t.
I like how people wanted Rian Johnson to fix J.J. Abrams mistakes, and now we need J.J. Abrams to fix Rian Johnson's mistakes. I wish George Lucas and Mark Hamill had more of a say in the films.
Isaac Bridges I'd agree but.. Lucas loved the Last Jedi.
Yeah because it makes his disaster of prequels look better
Yeah pretty freaking ironic.
Lucas said the film was beautifully made. He did not say the story was not a disaster and a joke, which it was.
Lucas took 4 billion from Disney! Why would he have an input anymore?
I never saw this trilogy as Rey’s. It’s Ben Solo’s.
Rey is a Mary Sue. In the last installment, if they want to save it, they need to flip the script. Rey turn to the Dark Side, as prophesied. Ben turn to the light or create the Gray Jedi.
Here’s hoping.
Hollywood won't accept a female hero turning evil and a straight while male being once again the savior. This won't happen.
Let's spread the word about this being Ben Solo's trilogy, it doesn't only sound good being a better character than Rey but he is also a Skywalker descendant.
Victorian Oddity Fingers crossed for this! Haha
That's the route I was hoping they were gearing up for after TFA.
I have a theory, Ben is Rey's sister,they are both being brainwashed to attack the republic and distrust each other
Its been stated repeatedly by various talking heads that this is rey's journey along with poe finn and kylo so yeah, even if they do some kind of redemption theme for kylo its still 'rey's story' =/. honestly i feel kind of bad for jj abrahms, imagine having to figure out what to do with this clusterfuck for part 3.
Let's also not forget that The Last Jedi has taught us that gravity, and the vacuum of space is nonexistent, or conveniently ceases to exist when the plot calls for it
Captain Planet lol
How dare you criticize Leia Poppins! That was the most entertaining part of the movie. lmao
I hated the Mary Poppins Leia thing but any small movement downward would cause the bombs to go down in that way. Or the fact that the ship was so massive it would have its own gravitational field
Captain Planet lets be honest star wars never followed science
When has physics ever been consistent in SW, fucking ever?
Rey is Kathleen Kennedy's personal power fantasy fanfic.
Nailed it.
Yep. Rey is a self insert Mary Sue version of Kathleen Kennedy.
Rey started as a Mary Sue. now she is a Super Nova Mary Sue.
It isn't even her final form ;-)
MAReySue.
this movie made the last one suck. won't watch next one.
If you pay close attention to how the starwars serie has being going so far, everyone is a Mary Sue...
You'd have to be using a pretty broad definition of mary sue for that argument - I don't think any of the OT characters were Mary Sue's, and out of the new one Poe and Finn have certainly been given more than their fair share of flaws and failures.
But that Ying and Yang/balance thing can't work because the Jedi Order (with thousands of different Jedi) existed for thousands of years without Dark Side equivalencies. If Rey became powerful as a response to Kylo Ren then thousands of Sith should have rose up as a response to Jedi. This also totally takes away any effort from Rey in becoming powerful rather she is just made powerful by an outside force (in this case the Force). She should make an effort and take her future into her own hands! She doesn't earn her skill and therefore does not deserve it!
The explanation for why there were no large groups of sith during the Jedi order is because of the "rule of two". Basically large groups of sith kill the crap out of each other in attempts to gain more power, so to prevent self destruction one sith (Don't remember who) created the rule of two. It says that there can only ever be two sith at a time, the master and apprentice, and the only way for a new sith to appear is for the student to kill the teacher or for someone else to kill the student and take his place. This also explains nicely why the sith were so powerful, the dark side of the force was not shared between thousands like in the Jedi just two people, so they commanded more power. There are better explanations than what I've given online.
kroothound I really like this explanation, btw the guy who invented the rule of two was Darth Bane.
Holy shit master obi wan
EDIT: Replying to kroothound
That makes some sense, BUT, for that to work you have to assume that the 2 Sith that lived at a time were as powerful with the force as at least multiple thousands of Jedi existing at the same time, yet this in untenable since Darth Maul, for example, was defeated by 2 Jedi, only killing one of them. Even Palpatine, though extremely powerful, could not feasibly take on hundreds or thousands of trained Jedi at once. The power of the RoT Sith is better explained by the fact that the Dark Side is all about personal power growth; combined with being under the noses of an unsuspecting Order, they have good conditions for growing in power naturally. Also, the precedent set up by the first 6 movies is that the Force is not an entity that just acts on its' own will (it can't too, because it isn't a conscious being), but that imbalances in its' presence are addressed through the actions and growth conscious, force sensitive agents. While there are Chosen Ones, force sensitive blood lines, etc. that is their potential in the force, but said potential must be actualised through the individual's journey of understanding the force.
Contrast this to TLJ (and possibly TFA but not to the same extent), where Snoke outright states that the light side of the force just props up to balance itself up, and this is corroborated by Rey's sudden, unjustified learning of force powers. This completely contradicts the established nature of the force where it automatically but unconsciously sets the pieces in place for others to make the moves with; the new lore has the force play with the pieces themselves, little agency required by force users.
Paul, you have a perfect understanding of how the Force works.
Force awakens makes 0 sense. Anakin and Luke were the most powerful beings; they lost to dooku and Vader respectively. Having the potential to the be the most something dosent make you so. Force trying to balance things out makes sense, but just having the potential doesn't mean they don't have to grow throughout experience and practice.
In the prequels the Jedi repeatedly say that anakin "will" become the most powerful. That he is learning how to use his power. Rey is the worst character in any Star Wars, even worst than kid anakin in episode 1.
Don't forget, Anakin also lost to me. I thought that represented that even if you have a lot of potential, you still have to be fighting for the right reasons.
Edgar A. 亚瑟 Ollervides Idk dude. Rose tho.....fucking Rose.
I believe when you say "for some reason" is exactly why people are upset. We feel it spits in the face of what we know about the Star Wars universe. Prior force sensitivity didn't make you some kind of god. You had to either be of an extremely powerful bloodline and or be trained your entire life.
Picking up a lightsaber and all of the sudden being good just because at random the force "selected" you feels cheap. It feels like it dishonors the idea of training and work it takes to become a Jedi. It makes it seem much less believable. While Anakin was naturally skilled at things like piloting and pod racing, he still had to be trained his entire life to master it, and he was the CHOSEN ONE... like come on writers.
Luke and Leia were perfect before. They show how the force was merit and training base. Leia couldn't use the force even when being from a powerful family, due to lack of training. Luke put in the time and effort and could use it. It was awesome.
Like Rey is a nobody and yet she fits the chosen trope better then Anakin. Like she is awesome due to being special or picked by the force.
anakin was created to be a really powerful force user by darth plaguis it stupid how but it at least have something to it
Kind of like loot boxes hmm
Wilky _ Rey doesn't use the force as much as jedi or sith does. She only uses the force LIKE jedi.
Forest elfranger
Actually, she _did_ use the Force in the original trilogy. She just didn't use it in an _overt_ manner. The novelizations of the movies show it a lot better, because it's not like they have glowy blue magic to show they're using it.
Calling it now: Episode 9 will end with Rey firing DBZ styled force beams at First Order ships.
That sound badass!
The next deathstar will be destroyed by spirit bomb.
While riding superman Leia
What I'm gonna predict, is by the next movie, Rey transforms to ultra instinct, and dodges all of kylo's attacks without effort, then before her finishing blow, luke as a ghost appears then says, "Rey... I. AM. YOUR! UNCLE!"
And then Rey blows kylo Ren to a million of pieces, then flies off to space like super man to defeat the aliens from Mars before they could kill Finn hostage where they end on a cliffhanger to start off the next trilogy!
Oh, and characters from star trek will appear.
...ah fuck, with how little Disney gives a shit about continuity i can actually see that happening.
She’s the 3rd worst character ever in Star Wars. (Behind rose and jar jar)
Skinny p Boy Jar Jar is already redeemed now that this new sequel has destroyed it all 😂
Skinny p Boy Actually I Think She's Worse Than Rose
Actually she is such a bad character that a trilogy on the origins of Jar Jar Binks would look like The Godfather compared to this new episodes.
Never foeget darth jar jar
Sorry. Rose and Holdo. Jar jar is 4th.
I think if Luke had defeated her in combat, it'd make her so much better as a character. They couldn't even let her lose to Luke like wtf. It'd humble her.
What if Leia trained her in the force caus Luke trained her, and Luke was busy on that far out force world balancing the force between light and dark
Thank you. I agree. I know Luke is broken down but that's why Luke shouldn't be so ruined.
@wait wot
Your idea would have worked on several levels if they were implemented in the movies. First, it would give Rey some actual training, legitimizing her proficiency with a light saber and force powers. Also, it would set up Leia's superwoman scene as a plausible action from a trained force user. Finally, it would satisfy the female audience And the Star Wars geeks by affirming female power (strong woman training a strong woman) without subverting the continuity.The number of missed opportunities in the sequels is beyond count.
@@aurorauplinks4703 That makes no sense.
luke does beat her. he disarmed her easily. only after she attacks with lightsaber violently luke stops.
They fucked up Luke's legacy. Kathleen kennedy is a snake in the grass
Watch ray become the chosen one too.This whole balance thing is about the prophecy and Anakin was thought to be the chosen one but ray is probley steal that title too.Unless Anakin comes as a force ghost an kills both of them I dont think he can ever balance the forse and the idea of Anakin being able to kill as a force ghost is stupied
Luke Skywalker more like a talentless thief who manipulates good directors and abuses directors she hates
*Feminist
Lol I'd rather have an interesting character story than pander to people who want luke to be the perfect hero from their childhood
Trevor Robinette Well you didn't get a interesting character story and the script was shit.
She also randomly understands Chewie's language
Ariel Prendergast and understands BB-8
Yep, because she's prefect and her real name is Mary....
Her being able to pilot the falcon and understanding languages aren't a big deal when you take into account that in the star wars universe people are able to build robots and pilot ships when they're just 9 years old...but i do agree that her being able to beat the praetorian guards and lift ALL those rocks was fucking annoying
She scavenged for many years on Jakku near a trading post. I think she couldve picked up some other languages and could learn understand droids.
Hunter Hasler She might have picked up a bit concerning droids (unlikely but I’ll give you that), but learning the Wookie language would be impossible for her due to a complete lack of Wookies on Jakku (or at least the part of the planet that we were shown). Having one pass by every few years to buy parts would in no way grant Rey fluency in the language.
Bro she never picked up a light saber yet was a master. It took Luke 3 flims! You knight!
She used a staff. probably not to hard to adapt. Luke on the other hand never weilded a weapon other then a blaster before. His skill was in pilotting. beyonf the normal boost force weilders get in that skill. Rey spent years around ships and likely studied the controls. her fixing and piloting a ship is plausible. never mention she is the best at piloting but all the years on Jaku scavaging stuff made her a good fixer.
Revkor she used a staff which would translate to being a Jedi Master? Who again "has never pick up a lightsaber" and some how defeated a Jedi master? I've spent years around planes. Can I now fix or fly one? Her character and the movie as a whole was horrible. I see Star Wars (if they continue this nonsense) in a few years damaging the brand to the point it will no longer be no where near as profitable as it still is.
Revkor that’s not a fair comparison. Yeah she had a staff. Yeah she had to defend herself.
But a staff against a regular person, with no stylized training, just brute force, holds not credential skills against the 7 lightsaber combat forms, which mimick Asian sword fighting styles.
It’s not comparable.
I know this is an old comment but who are you talking to? Geekdom said she was.
Leah is rescued by Hans Luke and chewy, Luke is rescued by Hans, and Hans is rescued by Leah. They depend on each other. None is a Mary Sue. But Kennedy seems to think that a female protagonist must be perfect.
Even one punch man (arguably the most ridiculously and laughably strongest character in all of media) had to earn his strength. For 3 years. Sure, it was trivial to everyone else, but it was a struggle to him. Also one punch man is a PARODY, yet even it understands that you need to make us see a character grow first before we begin to care about them.
In comparison, Rey literally did NOTHING to get this powerful. Absolutely nothing. And for people to get irritated about it, is perfectly justifiable.
wait wot indeed. But at least he earned that boredom and OP level of strength. Rey certainly hasn’t. Which is infuriating.
wait wot the whole... women are stronger or as strong as men?
Saitama only partially fits the Gary Stu model. Gary Stus require multiple elements, the ability to succeed in any meaningful task, a lack of character flaws, and being well loved or respected by those around him. Saitama only has one of those three elements because of his strength, but in reality he's a uncharismatic airhead who has only one person who truly takes him seriously, his cyborg apprentice. His struggle is not against the people he punches, but against the society that treats him like dirt and his own overpowered nature.
The fact that he sortof trained for his power is actually incidental. The story could have magically given him his power, and he wouldn't be any less or more of a Gary Stu.
He isn't even close to the strongest character in all of media....
Kathleen Kennedy is Darth Sidious and Disney is the Galactic Empire.
yes
Rey has no character, no flaws, we know nothing about her, she's absolutely perfect.
The daughter of nobodies who is also a nobody and managed to be more powerful than the Skywalkers who were born from the fucking Force itself, man...
I miss Ahsoka, Ventress, Mara Jade, Shaak Ti and all other cool female characters in SW.
Jefferson Thojja I really want probably an Asoka stand alone movie of her years when she left the order.
I've been binge watching Clone Wars (on season 4 now). Ashoka is awesome. And her interactions with the other characters is great. Really enjoy the line of training with ObiWon to Anakin to Ashoka. Best is when she disobeys or questions Anakin and ObiWon finds it funny.
Dylan Sanders Yeah, the prequals may have been flawed but the clone wars was the best thing to come out of it and really helped develop Anakin, Asoka and others.
An Ahsoka movie would be amazing if people like Dave Filoni were involved indeed.
Jefferson Thojja Yes, hoepfully a lot better than how he handles the Rebels series.
Aside from Rey's super powers, she apparently has no character flaws either. She's doesn't struggle with immaturity, fear, anger, pride, impulsiveness or anything else Anakin, Luke or any of the rest of us deal with. There's no way to connect to this girl. We've seen her in 2 films and I can't explain anything about who she is as a person. The other problem is that Hollywood can't seem to figure out how to create a strong female without making her more like a male. Tough and emotionless. They have to make men weak by having her beat them up so we know she's powerful. It's not just Star Wars either. Seems every action film with a female protagonist makes her name but beating up or killing scores of men. Reminds me of when we first saw the Black Widow in Iron Man 2. She bursts into the room and beats up a bunch of men while Tony's bodyguard spends the whole time fighting one and takes a beating in the process. And we've seen strong females in Star Wars before and they never had to do that. Leia and Padme were both strong and confident but also feminine. We got it and liked them for it. The feminism was so blatantly obvious throughout the whole movie. Luke, Kylo, Poe and Finn all got taken to school by women and the women never looked anything less than strong, wise and heroic. Now that I know the new Disney Star Wars is chock full of heavy handed agendas amongst other things, I don't know how I can see anymore of it. I feel like the ride stopped here. And it sucks.
Well to be fair Black Widow could always do that, its what she was trained for.
Trucker_Pete Compare that to Uma Thurmon in Kill Bill, who is a complete badass in her own right but also keeps her femininity intact. Tarantino would do a better Star Wars movie than what we got.
Black Widow got better. A well written female character is a good character who is female. She was amazing in The Avengers and great in the Winter Soldier without ever having to put down anyone else. Being a woman was part of her character, you couldn't have just gender flipped her, but it didn't define her.
Paul Butkovich I agree which is why she never bothered me in the other films. Unfortunately, Marvel is pulling the same crap now though. I couldn't finish Thor Ragnarok because of the everyone is a comedian approach and the overblown girl power. That one chick who played it tough the whole time and kept zapping Thor annoyed me to no end. Also worth noting is the one female friend of Thors didn't get slaughtered like his male companions. Coincidence?
I wasn't too bothered by Valkyrie to be honest. She didn't strike me as being anything against guys. Sure she kept tasing Thor, but a big part of Sakar in general was knocking Thor off his perch as God of Thunder and making him use his brain and not his hammer. Someone had to take him down a peg and Valkyrie was available. I did find her getting over her trauma a bit unbelievable, but otherwise felt she was fine. I felt Thor stealing the remote from her removed any Mary Sue tendencies, as did her fear of Hela.
I have no incentive whatsoever to go to the theater to watch episode 9. Like Zero, Snokes dead, Lukes dead, Hans dead, Carrie Fisher dead, no interesting mysteries to solve, Like what's left to care about? Some stupid Mary sue and the feminist rebellion? Star wars is dead
shane stewart Exactly.
Here's what happens in Episode 9: Leia dies, and Rey takes her place as Leader of The Resistance. The First Order builds another StarKiller Base that's capable of wiping out every single planet in the entire galaxy all at once. Finn, Rose, and Poe go off on another side quest that ultimately has no effect on the plot and was useless. Rey fights Kylo Ren one last time and wins, obviously. She then flies the Millenium Falcon and singlehandedly blows up the new StarKiller Base. The First Order dissolves and Rey is hailed as a God.
It's funny how Leia is the only character that is still alive in the movie even though Carrie Fisher is the only one of the actors that is dead.
faarsight
Cuz wamen. 🤷🏻♂️
They would do well to respect women and Carrie Fischer to have sent her off as a hero. Have her getting blown into space and appearing as the angelic leader she was, and having that death be the spark that ignites the change of heart in Kylo. I personally think it's disrespectful to keep her significant character alive and not the actor...Remember Paul Walker in the FF films? He at least had a send off and the story behind it and his brother's involvement was touching and respected.
I also heard Carrie Fischer's scenes were supposedly already filmed. Dunno how true that is in its entirety. But I think they should've killed her off in the adrift in space scene or towards the end when Kylo snaps...And have him feel her passing and emotionally breaking. Have him face Luke and eventually break down crying for help/guidance. Then he and Luke turn on the ATATs and Hux with Rey. All this assuming that the fight with Snoke only ever served as a chaotic first round fight and not Snoke's death.
Where does this assumption come from that Rey supposed to be hero?
How could you not think that rey was a mary sue in the force awakens? She a goddamn definition of it. It's not just her force abilities, it's her piloting, her technical skills, her fighting ability. I mean, jesus, that's the definition of a mary sue, is it not?
Magnus Exactly man she’s been a Mary Sue since the first film. Using the Jedi mind trick and defeating kylo Ren was the last straw! Now she’s able to best Luke and highly trained praetorian guards lol
I think the point was that they left an out in TFA; they implied that there was some reason she was so good at all this. It was a cheap cinematic trick, but it was an *unanswered* question. In TLJ they gave the answer, and that answer was "because the force wants it that way" (deus ex machina). There is a difference between "they didn't explain that" (TFA ) and "the explanation sucks" (TLJ).
RV
They left an out, but by not explaining themselves and then giving such a cheap explanation if reeks of justifying poor writing decisions.
Magnus
That, and having no flaws that truly affect their character, usually they show up pre-established characters at their specific talent, universally liked...
She fit the bill to a "T."
Oh, I agree. I just think Rey wasn't quite "the definition of a Mary Sue" in TFA, but mostly *because* of sketchy storytelling. Abrams' whole mystery box approach is cheap, and only 'mysterious' until you realize he's BSing and counting on the audience to make up a better story to fill the gaps. Johnson had the opportunity to fill that gap with something interesting (and maybe even redeem it), but instead he overcompensated and pushed her character right over the edge.
After the force awakens I thought that she was one of students that survived the massacre at luke's jedi academy and was placed on jaku to keep her safe from kylo
That would have made a lot more sense in explaining who she was and why she was able to use the force so well. It also would not have broken most of the prequels and Jedi training like the instantly powerful Rey does
It is actually still a possibility too since her force vision showed her Kylo and the Knights killing some of the students. Also some of them were saved by Kylo himself,maybe two or three but instead of handing the younger students to Snoke he dropped them off on Jakku.Rey was one of them. Kylo wanted no other force users to interfere with his relationship with Snoke. Luke tells Rey he had 12 students (one was Kylo) and killed some of them and took the rest away.This means that Kylo is keeping a very big secret that she might be related to him!
It would have made sense to make her parents two random force sensitivity people. Maybe students of Luke that feel in love.
I wouldn't bother with fan theories, given how many of them Johnson threw over his shoulder like Luke's lightsaber, just so he could say "got ya!"
broom boy at the end, honestly thought he was going to get on the broom and fly away like harry potter cause disney fucked this movie. actually wouldnt be surprised if he did fly away lol
Yeah because we didn´t see what happened next. Damn!!! you got a scary and possible point there.
lol
jajajajaja
Thanks to Finn and Rose, those slave kids now have months and months of whippings and lack of sleep to look forward to while they clean up the mess.
Mozzy4kTv The movie wouldn’t have been any worse if he had flown into space on his broom and shot sith lightning at a star destroyer, blowing it up as the Star Wars opening scroll theme blasted in the background at maximum volume.
I was hoping that Rey would die in this one and Luke would come back to kill Kylo and Snoke in the next movie. That would be a more believable story to me.
Rey is a broken hero. Defeats Kylo in episode 7. Defeats Kylo in episode 8. Episode 9 how is Kylo even a threat? Invincible woman knows how to do everything and never fails is not a relatable story. They have a story like that in DC comics and even he has a bigger weakness. Unless Kylo does some hyperbolic time chamber training he isn't the villain qualified to deal with supergirl.
PS I despise how Snoke was built up and killed off with no fucks given.
PPS Why didn't they let Finn do a noble sacrifice? /facepalm
"Invincible woman knows how to do everything and never fails is not a relatable story."
Maybe not, but it seems to be every female on screen these days. (COUGHS)AtomicBlonde(COUGHS)
Rey didn't even fight Kylo in episode 8 and there's significant context to her victory in episode 7 np.reddit.com/r/CharacterRant/comments/3xl6ru/kylo_ren/?st=iwprhtj0&sh=e127b757
Keith AHhh she won that force battle and let Kylo knocked down on the ground
This is Rey's trilogy. It would be like killing off Luke in Empire Strikes back. It would not make sense.
The part with Finn was weird, but I knew from spoilers what was going to happen. In the actual movie, it looked like the cannon was already firing and he was several yards away from being able to damage it. That's why I've heard some people say, it may not have been much of a "sacrifice" if he flew into the cannon/beam without causing much damage to their weapon.
The force made Rey equally powerful.. FOR SOME REASON. 1:33 lol That's the whole problem!!! I am surrounded by strong women in my life including my mom who basically raised two boys on her own for a while so I totally respect strong women. But all the amazing women I know have had to work hard to get where they are and not just have everything handed to them... for some reason. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but her short stint of 'training' with Luke and reading a few jedi texts doesn't cut it for me. My verdict she has been and continues to be a Mary Sue. Anyway Star Wars fans enjoy your winter breaks! Peace and love!
YES!
No one can relate to Rey. Even Superman or woman have some weakness so humans can relate. Rey is a god but the writers refuse to tell the audience. Being a god is fine, she could be like WonderWoman or Thor but they don't want her to be that either. So the best thing I can come up with is Rey is a feminist god with JJ Abrams mystery to keep the audience guessing. The result really is what happens when communists hijack something good.
When there is an imbalance in the force the force will give buffs to the side with the disadvantage. Palpatine took on 5 jedi at once.
What training? 😂 the part where she bested him in combat? Luke Skywalker the guy who defeated Darth Vader and brought down the entire Empire Lmfao Jesus how could they fuck this up so bad
^Winter breaks? Oh you mean Christmas.
I couldn't agree more. This movie really made me dislike Rey as a character and I'm not even one bit interested in seeing how she will further develop in Episode 9. Why? Because it doesn't feel like she earned even one bit of her power. She can use Force - just like that. She can fly a ship - just like that. She knows as much about the Millenium Falcon as Han - just like that. We never see her struggle. We never see her overcoming her own weaknesses. We never feel her grow. And her encounter with Luke? As you said, she really doesn't train at all. In fact, later on it seems like SHE is the one giving Luke Skywalker lessons. We also don't know anything about her motivations. Why has she joined the rebel alliance? Why does she want to become a Jedi? What are her motivations? What are her weaknesses? Compare that to Luke and Anakin: Luke wanted to become a Jedi because he wanted to be like his father and because the Empire killed the only parental figures he had. Anakin wanted to become a Jedi because he grew up as a slave and has experienced disparity first hand. Rey? After 2/3 of her trilogy I don't even know why the f*ck she's here and why she does anything she does. People pick on Rose and call her an unimportant character, but I literally know more about Rose's backstory, her motivations and her character than I know about Rey.
Another giant problem is how this movie completely broke the gap between Force affinity and Force usage. The OT, PT and The Clone Wars series established that many people have an affinity to the Force. Hence, why the Jedi gathered them up as infanty if they sensed potential. It has also been established that training is required in order to use the Force. Anakin had a great affinity to the Force. But he couldn't use it before training. Same with Luke. Remember how he struggled in Episode 5 to even lift a rock and pull his Light Saber towards him? Well, Broom Boy at the end had no problem. So were all the other Jedi just morons? What Episode 7/8 seemingly are trying to tell us is that Force affinity correlates directly with how good you can use the Force. The fact, that the gap between those two principles has been wiped out left us with a very inconsistent picture, which really bothers me about this movie.
RubinNischara: too well said. As a long time Star Wars fans, it hurts to see all the important establishment rules of original saga that makes Star Wars special being broken for no reason due to lazy writing. People can relate to Luke Skywalker and love the Star Wars universe because we can feel the internal struggle of the characters and love the joy when the characters efforts and sacrifice finally pay off at the end. As for Rey, I don't see or feel any struggle at all.
RubinNischara that's exactly how I feel. Well said.
Anakin almost wasn't trained as a Jedi even though he showed promise at a young age. Yet Luke who showed no force abilities was trained from scratch just because Obi Wan knew Luke was Anakin's son. So is broom boy a son of a force user,or relative of Luke's students he didn't seek to train? More questions than answers.I think the Jedi council were full of themselves and let a lot of force sensitives go on without training them. So they grow up a little better than the rest. JD on Canto Bight seems to be one.He uses his ability for self profit. We will undoubtedly see him again!
RubinNischara Wow you hit he nail on the head. Once Rey appeared in the force awakens I didn't give a shit about her like I did Finn. Also I like how you mentioned that Luke and Anakin despite having high potential both struggled to get where they are while Rey just fucking does shit out of no where. I try to explain people that think Luke and Anakin are Mary sues due to Movie feats being bigger than Rey's.
Isaiah Garraway Yeah it's weird how people don't see the difference. Honestly, I wouldn't mind if Rey would be more powerful than Anakin and Luke combined. The fact that she doesn't have any trouble or struggle doing so is it, what bothers me. Being strong doesn't make you a Mary/Gary Sue. Being it for no reason makes you one.
I agree SO MUCH with all of this analysis. Rey is not a likeable or relatable character because she has literally zero flaws. It also doesn't help that she has only one facial expression ("vogue") and her attempt at comedy always falls flat.
I'm a woman, and a moderate feminist, but Rey really bugs me. Because making her this perfect, powerful character is not realistic, it's still not showing women as real, three-dimensional humans who fail and learn like everyone else. So technically in their attempt to make this show politically-correct they've over-corrected and it's actually kind of sexist. Yeah, women are just like men: that is to say human, and not perfect warrior-goddesses who can harness the Force without training, fly ships without training, never fail anything, and look fabulous doing it.
Setting things up like this makes the whole story so one-sided and there's no fear of the Big Bad. Who cares if there are barely any rebels left, Rey will probably still single-handedly take on the entire First Order and Kylo Ren with a pair of paper clips and a rubber band.
christmastiger I concur. She's too perfect and has yet to face any real setbacks in her story. Rey's soo powerful that by the end of the Force Awakens I felt that all the possible tension in this new trilogy had disappeared. Anakin as well as Luke had various degrees of training, we're powerful and yet when they were confronted with more skilled opponents they paid in blood. As you've described, Rey doesn't seem human or relatable.
wow, youre one of the only logical, polite and level headed modern feminists out there, im actually kind of surprised, given the current climate....
I definitely agree, it's hard to feel as though there are any real stakes in this final movie of the trilogy because Rey just keeps wiping the floor with everyone she comes up against so why should it be any different? If they give her a humanizing moment of defeat in this next one it will feel far too late for her to redeem herself from it and fully develop as a three-dimensional character.
It's just...disappointing. Like I don't even think there's anything redeemable to her character such as being a good role model for young girls because it seems like all she's doing is teaching them that you don't need to actually train and struggle and learn to become great--you're just born with it. Ugh.
Thanks! I apologize on behalf of the ones that are constantly embarrassing me. If it helps quite a few of them once confronted will eventually be revealed as trolls. And some are just really young and totally and completely take the ideals out of context, which is very unfortunate.
Just on merit of definition alone, if a woman says stuff like "woman > men! kill all men!" they're not a feminist, probably a troll. It's supposed to be about getting along and having equality not superiority, for women or men. But hey, I'm sure you always gotta deal with that loud shitty minority of guys ruining the public image of you, all we can do is be our best and lead by example. I appreciate the solidarity.
Also the whole point of Anakin going dark was cuz the Dark Side is faster to learn. So how is Rey learning faster than Kylo?
Maybe we have been wrong all the time, maybe Rey is in the dark side and Kylo is the good one and the last Jedi, at this point everything is possible.
She isn't learning, thats part of the issue. She's just getting stronger because, literally, Kylo is. The 'Force' is apparently beefing her up as Kylo get's stronger so that she'll be a match for him.
When Luke was giving her that lesson, she went straight for the darkness. No hesitation. Maybe she is tapping into the dark side.
@@anthonygarcia8254 If you flip the two sides in the sequels things actually make more sense.
* Why is Rey so powerful so quickly? Because the dark side is easier to learn.
* Why is the Resistance so weak after the victory at the end of E6? Because they're actually the remnants of the Empire who lost that battle.
* Why are the First Order so powerful? Because they're actually the Republic.
* Why do the Resistance have weirdly fascist tendencies (for example: "obey your commander at all costs, no matter how stupid or evil you think they are"). Because they are the remnants of the Empire.
* Why isn't Finn affected by his conditioning as a stormtrooper? You would think breaking out of conditioning would be pretty important for that character? The answer is that Finn is still being conditioned.
* Why are Luke, Han and Leia so out of character? Because they're not really Luke, Han and Leia, they're imperial officers with holographic disguises. Probably to help with the conditioning of the new stromtroopers.
* Why did so many people in the new jedi temple turn to the dark side and become the knight of Ren? They didn't: they're still on the light side. And the knights of Ren aren't here because they're still training with real-Luke.
Do people not realize luke and kylo have the bloodline of the chosen one of the ancient prophecies, people who say "she survived in the wilderness she's strong" that's like saying a random bandit is more skilled than a martial artist who trained their whole life, like yamcha being better than vegeta or goku
ReptoTipz Not to mention both had to be trained to honed that powerful bloodline properly while other to.es they were fodderised and had to struggle to get stronger while Rey is just that.
Isaiah Garraway exactly even anakin wasn't that powerful without training
ReptoTipz Hell even when he finally got to rank of master in. The series he constantly got his ass handed to him but also developed both in his fights and his relationship with Asoka which also made him and her conflicted with the ideals of the Jedi and how his whole chosen one role played into its downfall.
Man don't even poop on Yamcha like that LOL. Yamcha trained most of his life too. Even Yamcha would wipe the floor with a bandit that has lived a harsh life.
Orielsy Diaz Yamcha was moslty on and off with his training until he completely gave up.
Anakin trains for 10 years from episode 1 threw 2
Luke trains for 5 months and year during 5 and 6
Rey does no training and is still good
Anakin lost to count dooku in episode 2
Luke lost to Vader in episode 5
Rey beats imperial guards in episode 8 this why I don't find this shit Canon. Dam even the EU was better
You're comparing young Jedi Knight against some of the most powerful Jedi Masters.
And then Jedi apprentice vs one of the two most powerful Force users in the galaxy.
Finally, you compare a Jedi apprentice vs imperial guards ....(who aren't even force sensitive?)
I mean, I would always prefer a Force-sensitive character in a fight against someone who isn't. Sure, this scene was a bit silly, but not that extremely IMO.
sreckom92 but ur forgetting that imperial guards are the ones that protect snoke while kylo is out
It makes sense why kylo can beat them but not a Mary Sue who doesn't even know how to fight with a lightsaber the fact she held her own is dumb
Tee Criss well, she wasn't fighting alone, and she was really struggling, if I recall correctly.
And we've seen how she performed against a Force user that is probably on a Master level and above (Snoke). Which is: Very poorly.
So that's something.
Tee Criss Rey struggled with them, Kylo beat two at once. But she struggled with one of them alone lol.
Derron Malcolm she should if lost instantly to them if kylo Ren couldn't beat with ease
Here's what you are trying to say:
Rey is a Jedi Millennial.
Hahaha,
Exactly!
Rey = Hipster Millennial Jedi
Kylo Ren = Emo Millennial Sith
Strictly speaking everyone under the age of 40 is a Millennial though. (It doesn't mean what you think, confused me too)
Goraka91 No technically a millenial is anyone born after 1990... Anyone born 1990 or before is considered Xenials... Anyone born 1982 and before is considered Generation X.... So anyone 28years old or younger is a "millennial"... Anyone over 28 but under 35 is considered a "Xenial"... Anyone over 36 is Generation X... originally Millennials were going to be labeled as "Generation Y" as in "why" are you here lol.... They changed it because "Millennials" sounds more hip
its like when Goten & Trunks could just become super saiyans without hardly any effort at all. you got Vegeta spending every waking second of his entire life killing himself to become a super saiyan & his son just eats breakfast & has the same abilities. not quite as rewarding as a viewer.
SqueakyPickles07 lol especially vegeta acknowledging " the legendary super saiyan....reduced to a childs plaything!?!?!?"
Jacob Logan or that it's a Super Saiyan bargain sale lol.
there actually is excplaination.Goku was a super sayian when Goten was born and Vegeta was on the cusp of it. That allowed those two to get there.
The difference is that the fathers of goten and trunks are not nobodies. They are the strongest beings in their universe as opposed to Rey in TLJ
To be perfectly fair, at least Trunks earned his strength in base form by training in the Gravity Room with Vegeta from the moment he could walk. Goten on the other hand, seems to dick around and do nothing but play with Gohan or any animals he finds in the forest, so I appreciate the fact that Goten lost to Trunks in the tournament.
Which begs the question; if you take away plot armour for Goku, just how badly would Vegeta trounce him, considering he has been training for a longer time, and far harder than Goku has, his whole life?
That is not how the Force works... A person may have high force potential but it needs to be trained. Anakin Skywalker is the Force incarnated yet he could not do anything remotely close to what Rei could do at the beginning. The Force is not magic and is clear that neither JJ or Rian understand this...
I wonder if Rian Johnson ever watched a Star Wars movie.
Darth Mawrak Even with that I can't fathom how he could miss this. There is clearly a difference between science fiction and fantasy. Didn't Rian directed Looper which is a science fiction movie, granted it smattered it's own rules at some points.
And I even beat Anakin, the one with the most Force potential!
I heard that TLJ was based on a fanfic that came out shortly after The Force Awakens.
She is legit a Mary Sue... My boy Thor, a god mind you got his ass kicked and lost an eye. They made a Thor more human and relatable in his movie. They showed that not everyone is invincible.
Exactly
Disney wants to push they’re agenda about females being more powerful than men.
I don't understand how Disney makes great Marvel movies and shits on the Star Wars franchise smfh
She's a Disney Princess.
Chaviero71 probably because the marvel people are marvel people. Same core people have been working on the marvel films. Otherwise, it's absolutely IMPOSSIBLE to maintain that level of consistency and continuity. People cant even do that with religion, let alone marvel films. All franchise filmmakers must learn from marvel. Maybe marvel don't make compelling and really awe inspiring films, but they're all of a high quality, well cast, well shot and most importantly, satisfies the expectations of nerds.
Rian and JJ have lost the plot, they have missed the whole point of "The Hero's Journey".
The blue lightaber will always be Luke's and Anakin's in my view because they're the Skywalkers in the story, Rey is "no one", shes not a Skywalker, or Kenobi etc just someone randomly powerful in the force who the lightsaber happens to call to, mostly because her role in the story is to be all-perfect and just redeem Kylo at he end.
I.E. I have absolutely no emotional connection to the character of Rey, she doesnt appeal to me in the slightest because I have seen no struggle in her character, she just seems to know how to fight from being a scav, and has learned force abilities from nowhere and Im supposed to care for her because she has a teenage crush *cough!* erm connection with Kylo Ren, from which Snoke set up.
Rey is a badly written character, Luke didnt even give her the ligthsaber and never knew who she was, the character of Rey actually represents all the feminists and SJWs who have invaded the Starwars franchise now.
I agree with almost everything, the exception being that feminism is simply equality between the sexes. They went way past that in this film.
Luthien No equality is freedom and liberalism. The sexes aren't equal, they function differently on a biological basis. Not saying one is better, but they sure as hell aren't the same. Just leave your hands off of the scale and give them the same opportunities. Let them decide their own outcomes. That's equality.
+Garrett Seno Someone said to me in a discussion on another video, an example of what would happen if Rose Tyco and Finn's roles in the movie were switched arnd. Rose was the defecting Stormtrooper and Finn was the Resistance Engineer and Finn shocked Rose for trying to desert, this would never happen and if it did would be seen as controversial but it could never happen, because Rose being a "girl", most people woould NEVER see that funny.
That purely sums up the difference between men and women.
I think my knowledge of english is a bit limited to express myself correctly, but maybe the problem is not here. Maybe the english vocabulary is too limited regarding the peculiar subject we are talking about.
Is the english language equals the french language? => No
Is one of these languages is better than the other? => No
It's all about context, and here I join the debate.
In french we have two different words for "equal". We have "égale", and "équitable", and I'm not sure this dichotomy exists in english.
égal means the two part are strictly equals. 10$ = 10$. That's pure mathematic here.
équitable means the two parts can be completly different (X=/=Y), but can be considered "even-handed", depending of the context, which means none is stricly superior to the other (like french language oppose to english language). It's like "old school trading" or "fare trading".
ie: One horse =/= One ox, but it can be "équitable" to trade them depending on the context.
I see women and men like this: We both are highly capable, we can perform most things equaly, but none of us are strictly equal (we are individual). Men and Women are not "égal", just "équitable".
Raiken Xion Yep.. SJW’s don’t even care about Star Wars for the most part. They just want to make up for their imaginary slights and invented sexiest perceptions about the older movies and see these new movies as an opportunity to correct it. Holdo and how she treats Poe with her purple hair and then self sacrifice flying into the “supremacy” is evidence enough to prove this, let alone everything else.
this is actually going to ruin the career of daisy, because first people dislike her character rey and then they will continue disliking her in other movies because she will remind them of rey.
This is what happened to some of the actors in the prequels. Those movies have ruined their careers...
doramason I honestly hope not.
I really like Daisy. She's so nice and positive!
rey is like a foot soldier who found a jet fighter and suddenly knows how to fly it.
"But she flew a speeder! Flying a frigate and defeating TIE fighters is obviously the same thing!!"
Rey is a junkyard worker who, when presented with a custom stealth fighter, figured out how to make it run smoother and fly it better than trained plots, and then won a karate championship.
Battlefield?
Rey:
1 Is already stronger that Kylo
2 ...also growing stronger faster than Kylo
3 Has ancient Jedi texts
4 Has force Jedi master ghosts behind her (who can now summon lightning)|
5 Has fellow Mary Sue in Poe, who can single-handdeldy disable the defences of a mega destroyer
6 Force-sensitive toddlers scattered around the galaxy
Kylo has...
1 Idiot General Hux, laughing joke of the First Order
2 Useless Captain Phasma who's likely dead and gave the First Order to the Rebels after getting a gun pointed at her
3 Useless First Order fleet who've been taking Ls throughout the Trilogy (yet somehow we're expected to believe they're a threat)
Absolute dogshit. I'm done with SW
Echo Well spotted dude! I didn't pick that. Just more potholes the more one delves in.
here here. and the noble, wise and selfless female routine throughout the whole film was predictable hollyweird sewage.
Patrick McKenna
Women are typically the first ones to run or defect when things get testy, so Phasma being useless and easily intimidated was pretty accurate. :P
+Echo Jesus Christ, I didn't even think of that. I'm actually laughing right now thinking of how much more retarded that makes Phasma in TFA.
I really liked Hux in the first film, I thought que could be a great commander, like Tarkin. Oh boy I was wrong, they ruined him
Preach it my man. Defended Rey as well in the first one, now she is a Mary Sue.
My issue is what is it they can possibly do in the 9th movie to fix all of this/make it watchable?
Kylo is 0-2 against Rey, there is 0 reason to fear him at all , the First Order comes off as more Loony Toon villain now (the dumb opening scene of Last Jedi with Poe and Admiral Pc) I just don't care what happens now.
Wether you hated FA or not, there where good story lines being set up, but now most of them are completely useless/forgot about. This whole Rey Kylo thing isn't even a conflict, because Rey just keeps whooping his ass.
The dark side user can stop energy bolts being fired from plasma rifles. But if he goes up against light side user with no real training well he's just automatically going to lose. The plot armor was strong with this one. LOL
Apparently Jedi Masters are no longer needed.
Nooooooo! That means I'm out of a job!!!
TLJ definitely made her a Mary Sue. You have to be blind to not see that. Just look at all the Jedi from the past, they all had to train vigorously for years to become Jedi Knights. Rey just magically woke up and was a full fledged Jedi Knight.
Jedi Knight? She's at Jedi Master skills already!
And Anakin was the Chosen One, the Force user with the most potential yet he still lost to me!
And to Count Dooku don't forget about him.
No, TFA made her a Mary Sue. Right from the start. It was not TLJ, but TFA that killed Star Wars.
@@DraculaCronqvist thank you. in TLJ she actually fails a lot. she fails to convince luke to train her, r2 does that. she fails to convince luke to join the rebellion, yoda does that. she fails to redeem kylo and instead pushes him furthur to darkness. snoke toys her like she is nothing and kylo saves her. she is quite aggressive and reckless during the fight whereas kylo is calm and calculated and kills most of the guards.
In real life most of the time hard work and training are more important than talent.
That's why I beat Anakin on Mustafar.
Right now it's starting to look like Disney got us all hyped about TFA and now has no idea what to do with the characters they created. Rey and Finn were sort of compelling characters in the TFA, but now it's becoming apparent that they are incredibly simple and hollow.
if you watch TFA and immediately TLJ you can see that Rey and Finn were a thing..his arc is related to her journey. they were closer friends... and here he wakes up and she is now related to some chick?? who cares rose??? this movie is so stupid and a bad storytelling shit
Rey being a Mary Sue is one of the worst writing choices in all of Star Wars, and it is a mistake that most writers know not to do.
I 100% agree, I hate Rey
As a writer I can confirm that.
Dont blame on Last Jedi alone, she already was a Mary Sue in The Force Awakens, The Last Jedi only confirmed it by saying her parents are NOBODY .
Aq Zing Her parents are...PLOT.
In all honesty, I hate when people make this stupid joke. The real problem is Disney.
Yep. Rey's what feminists think is a "strong woman."
It honestly didn’t even feel like a Starwars movie
And that's what hurts me the most. I genuinely feel guilty about not liking a Star Wars movie. :'-(
Obi-Wan Kenobi TELL ME ABOUT IT
one thing that happens when you watch the last Jedi is that your mouth hangs open like a big eyed porg after a while. ~~~ What!?!
Rypaul5217 Dmitri Shostakovich!
I know that look, I sat in the theater with my mouth open and never even toughed my sweets or drink, I left the theater depressed and I keed going back online to see what others thought. I know it sounds silly but It was a really big deal for me, I knew Luke when he was 19 or so, IN REAL TIME
What I meant to say "never even touched my sweets of drink" and I KEPT going back online". Honestly I'm so tired lol
Yeah well I honestly thought that we all got SNOKE'D ....lol....I mean talk about beating a dead horse over and over. I was holding on to my chair hoping that I would not hear the ending punch line. I did, and it was at that time that I think I lost more brain cells than at any philosophy lecture. and to think I was the kind of guy who loved the movie Dune. because a spice snake ate the notoriously wicked Baron and then belched. lol
Despite liking the movie in general, I do agree with a lot of your points. They absolutely HAVE TO make Rey fail at something or fuck up big time in episode 9, or no one will ever give a shit about her. You are right, Kylo Ren is the only character worth getting invested in at this point. It seems like almost everyone feels this way about him, so I'm pretty sure they won't fuck him over, they'll actually do something good and interesting with his character. And it only makes sense, he is the last Skywalker, the final straw from Disney would be to shit all over the Skywalker legacy and burn it to the ground completely. But it will also feel a little weird if the villain is the only one that ends up with a interesting character arc. They have to fix Rey if they want to save the sequel trilogy in most people's minds I think.
Bro; Luke could barely lift a boulder even after beginning his training with Yoda, but Rey can split mountains right off the bat???
Not to mention when Yoda says: Who cares about the books, Rei already knows what is written on them. In that moment I was Mad
It was referring to the fact that Rey took the books with her when she left. You could see them at the end in the millenium falcon.
melchisedek not really what he meant! she took the books you didn't see them at the end in the falcon? when Finn open the drawer?
She took the books you see them on the Falcon at the end of the movie.
Spider-Zero Yoda literally said she already posses anything the books could teach her. So yeah pretty sure EVERYONE saw the damn books but that isn't the point. Meaning the books are pointless because she already knows.
Brian Dubya The point was she wanted to protect the Jedi Lineage that's it. If she only cared about learning from the books instead of persevering them she would of just left them. Or that line is poorly written and was post to reference that Rey took the books instead of knowing everything in the books already.
Rey at TFA: "...the Jedis are for real !!..."
15 min later: She's kicking a Sith master, Kilo Emo ass (who can stop lasers blast)....
Rey: Im a Jedi !!
Why are we still arguing about Rey being a Mary Sue?
when rey decides to go straight towards kylo in the ship i thought it was a WTF moment because she wasnt even trained. to me, like every story with a hero, thats a stupid move, meaning you are not ready. yet, she went anyway and she was fine...in the end its a bad story telling.
Where were the knights of Ren? Where was the rain scene? Where was Luke’s green saber? So many disappointments
James deen The Knights of Ren were the red guys that Kylo and Rey killed in the movie. The figurines proves that. :p
Ego Thanks, but I don't want to have to data-mine the toy store to get that kind of information. I paid big bucks for a movie ticket, and kinda expect to have the answers provided on screen. =9[.]9=
Ego that's a lie the pretorian guards are not the knights of ren read the visual guide! Stop spreading these lies
HOW DID THE BOMBS DROP WITH NO GRAVITY?
NSO O. Magnetic bombs. Most retarded scene
Those bombers shouldn’t have been used in space in the first place! When you have something that slow going up against hundreds of quick TIE fighters, they’re bound to get destroyed unless it was used for ground combat
How did she breathe in there!?
NSO O I think they were within the ships field of gravity and air and such. That’s what I though
The crazy part is that bombers are already part of canon...Y-Wings. So there is a bomb style I could buy but no....we couldn't have Jar Jar 2.0's sister sacrificing herself in the bomb bay. Ugh...Rose.
SJW’s ruining fucking Star Wars. God damn, why does every reboot of a franchise have to have a female main character just because of social justice.
Rey would be a good character if she developed like Luke and became extremely powerful in the last movie. What the fuck is next? Pepper Potts is going to be a fucking gender bent Iron-Man? Amy Rose is going to be the main character in the next Sonic game? Jesus Christ. I don’t have anything against women being the main protagonist but don’t make them a copy of another character, and don’t make them a feminist figure. Give them character development.
Luke Skywalker RIP Luke, you will be missed. Sorry for what Disney did to you.
Agree in all accounts man.
Rey is a freaking Uber Mary Sue.
If the reason she didnt lose to Kylo in TFA is because SJW Kathleen wanted an Uber female character to Win in her big debut produced film, than that is THE Most Stupidest Un-intellectual & beyond damaging decision that she could have instructed/vetoed to be made in the new Franhise's Main Protagonist character development arc.
I'm confused General Hux said "fire at will" but who is Will? kinda strange
Will, William.
Will
I
Am
Whills of the Force.
Battlestar Gallactica
Jarred Wickham That's the new call sign for the Resistance, didn't you know? Or rather, that's the true leader
Jarred Wickham Poor Will. Everyone hates him
Will is the guy that does the classic scream. He's like the Stan Lee of Star Wars films.
Is a phrase...Fire at will means fire when you are ready. Just google it.
Shit man. I WANTED a strong female jedi. But this does it wrong so bad.
Joseph Bailey How did the EU do it right for the past 30 fucking years but these hack writers on the new films can't?
SolarDragon007 Ikr
+Joseph Bailey yea one word ashoka... Also? if you didn't notice this? her force powers rival with kylo ren now! didn't you notice when both of them used the force to get the lightsaber and they are even match?
I don't think you get what I'm talking about...
Bastila Shan. Meetra Surik. Satele Shan. Mara Jade. There's enough to choose from in the extended universe they killed off in order to make this more "feminist" (which is really just making white females the main character while pushing everybody else aside)
Disney Jedi Code:
There is no logic, there are miracles.
There is no story, there is political correctness.
There is no training, there is certain victory.
There is no death in vaakum of space, there is the Force.
Oh, and the force is female. : /
Rey will never lose or suffer in this trilogy. It’s 2018 and women in film cannot be depicted as weak or fallible or suffering physically. That’s not really equality.
Rey is boring. The only interesting thing about her was the mystery of her background and how she is so powerful. Now we know her background and its just as boring as everything else about her
I never found either of those things interesting, especially the power thing which was never a mystery. She's powerful because they wanted to pander to feminists by making a Mary Sue with no flaws. That's why.
Yep. I had some hope that they would correct this error in TLJ by making her suffer and fail and have her powers explained. Maybe even make her arrogant from the events of the first movie, and it turns out Snoke had somehow been behind it all along to try to bring another person over to the dark side (I know that is far-fetched, but so is Vader being Luke's father).
But no. They fucked the whole thing up. It makes no sense.
Rey could have slowly slipped into the Dark Side, because the dark side is the quick and easy path. In her duel with Kylo in TFA she's really angry. Her face is basically rage and her attacks look sort of like Palpatine's.
There are so many good twists they could have done, but instead went for the most boring, lame, and just kriffin' nonsensical sithspit.
I agree. Rey being the daughter of nobody and related to no one "subverted our expectations." But in the worst way possible.
Yep. People were more interested in her dead parents than in her.
Take star wars out of the mix, what person you know becomes a master without training, sacrifice and struggle. That is a universal story point from as far back as the Greeks myths. That's why this movie does not work and smart audience's dislike this character. Its the same problem neo had in the second and third matrix movies.
We should have known it was going to be bad as soon as they said, "You have to find the Key Master".
Shapeshifterfilms but the matrix was still cool
Good point... Rocky, The Karate Kid, Red Dawn, Top Gun, Tombstone, Dances with Wolves, Gladiator. You even find it in other genres... 16 Candles and every John Hughes movie ever made, The Meg Ryan Trilogy. You literally could go on forever with the examples. Down south we call what Rian Johnson did being "too cute by half" and now he has fractured the fanbase and the foundation on which Disney wants to build out this universe. Kathleen Kennedy and the rest are too blinded by dollar signs and their PC agenda to see it.
C S beautifully said. Humans / audiences love an underdog that strives hard to succeed or a strong person who is willing to use his strength to aid others. The reason why people hate nerds ( the intelligent ones) is not because they are smart but because they use their smarts to remind others they are not as smart as them. This holds true for someone who is good at everything. People can't relate to people like that. What they can relate to is the struggle and the yearning to accomplish something despite the struggle. Thats what people love about their hero's. Everyone makes a big deal about rey not being likable because she's a woman. That's not it, the problem is she is pretentious and perfect and thus not human. Also north american writers cannot write female characters for shit. Its soo annoying how they write them. For them to be strong they always have to be better than a man. North american writers need to watch more Japanese anime. All of My favorite female heros come out of anime. They are badass, know that they are women are proud of it and never have to downplay a man to be empowered. Night and day difference.
Juraxu yeah it was. But we have to make our hero's suffer to succeed. That's what we love about stories. Overcoming adversity. Lol
I was a little forgiving in the TFA because it was implied she has a special bloodline and that would explain her abilities, but the fact she doesn’t come from anything doesn’t work because she doesn’t work for anything, had she actually been pushing herself and training hard to get strong and getting into these situations it would make sense. But now she feels like a fan fic character shoved in the story as a mc guffin.
This force made her powerful thing is so stupid in my opinion. So this means in the return of the jedi time when anakin was a child and before order 66 there are probably hundreds of Jedis and there is 2 siths(-1maul +1 doku afterwards). So this means Sidious and maul are equal to those hundreds of Jedis? Which in comparison makes Yoda+Windu+Obiwan collectively as strong as a bug? against sidious? Why is this arguement is happening in the new saga. They fcked it so bad, this is pure stupidity. Or am i mistaken? I dont know the lore well, i only watched the movies and animated series.
So with this logic lets assume Rey joins the dark side, so there will be a new force occur as strong as rey and kylo combined? without training !?! This is just giving me headaches nothing more :S
Atalay Dedemen is the old 1-6 even cannon now? Like i dont understand SW atall now. And how they shit on luke and GL is sad
Alexander kjellberg it is sad bro. Its gonna get worse :(
Am I the only one wondering where the light side force appointed user to counter snoke is if the force chooses champions now?
badtz maru indeed the new mentality is pure stupidity. I dont know how a star wars fan Ryan Johnson can make this kind of obvious mistakes.
well since palpatine killed all jedi, he was good enough. but i agree that reys strenght seems rushed
Why they let Rian Johnson have anything to do with this film at all is beyond me. I get that he's been successful in the past, but this isn't just a big blockbuster. This is Star Wars. The biggest franchise in all of human history. They should have chosen someone who had proven themselves with decades of filmography. Or, they could have simply let JJ direct all three of them.
Frank Darabont is a brilliant guy, to be sure, but I don't know if he's had any experience in a genre like this. Star Wars isn't the average sci-fi flick, it more or less stands on its own. He probably would have done a better job than Johnson did though.
Irvin Kershner has no experience with sci-fi either but see what fantastic work he did for "The Empire Strike Back".
6 movies Rey never trained in Force Awakens she never learned or lost. Kathleen Kennedy doesn't understand what the force is. I'm starting to think "That's not how the force works" was Jar Jar making fun of something she said or her shitting on the force
i had this argument with someone before, she indeed never trained, but in that regard she is like anakin, he also never trained in PM and yet he could do things because he was strong with the force, because thats how it is, training is needed to horne the skill, but it isnt mandatory.
luke was able to guide the torpedoes with minimal training, in a way he had only learned about it a few hours prior to him using it.
Marcos Danilo Anakin was trained since childhood. 10 I believe. He was never a prodigy
trained by who? i said he was never trained before the phantom menace, and he wasnt, he was only trained AFTER Qui Gon died.
and he was not only able to perceive the force pretty well, he basically became protected by plot armor of an unbelivable size. he was a child, and yet he was able to pilot in multiple pod races, and finally was able to win somehow in PM.
THAT is him using the force before any training.
He was force sensitive so he could respond to things before they happened... much like everyone's favorite Jar Jar or Han Solo. Though it wasn't plainly spelled out like Dukuu ordering the clone army. Quigon said they look for children that can react before something happens as a sign that they are force sensitive to select them to be Jedi. Anakin wasn't using the Jedi mind trick 5 minutes after he learned what the force was or lightsaber dualing a dark Jedi and winning after a day. Hell I hear she even kicks Luke's ass lol get lost with that argument Luke and Anakin both lost in the SECOND movie at lightsaber dualing and one lost an arm the other a hand
there are a few things there you should consider.
1) she was shown to be sensitive to the force before, first in the Falcon, she is able to pilot it perfectly, she had piloting skills, but even she didnt think it would go as smoothly, then when she helped Finn with the hentai monster.
2) she knew that was something the Jedi could do, so she tried and she failed, then, she tried again, this time, she let the force show her how. at that point she had already known she was sensitive, and she had already experienced it multiple times, including one so strong it was praticaly a vision.
3) Kylo was shot by Chewie's bowcaster, so either you are calling it a weak weapon, or you understand that he was beyond his limit when they fought he was also shown to still be shaken after killing his father, so he was nowhere near his top game, i dont even know how he was able to fight at all(and again, he bested her and finn, and he was also damaged by finn in his main arm).
4) she didnt kick anyone's ass, Luke didnt want to fight and had been shown to have cut himself from the force for decades by that point. all she did was pretty much push him down. and later on she had alot of dificulty fighting a single guard, while Kylo was able to best 4 of them at the same time, only having some dificulty at the last one, and even then, it wasnt a "im about to die" moment, it was closer to a "you disarmed me, but i can still kill you", and thats what he did.
so no, things arent really as you said.
My problems with The Last Jedi are more basic than Star Wars continuity or any of the other stuff. I object to the utter inability to grow or even fully develop the characters. Rey has been in existence for two movies, each of them two-and-a-half hours long. In that five hours of screentime, we know less about her than we knew about Luke within ten minutes. That's bad writing across two movies.
Rey is a Mary Sue List:
Independent woman who lives by herself in a dessert planet.
No parenting needed
Professional scavenger
Lives quite happily by herself
Can fight 2 men easily with no help required
Helps a strange robot
Helps Fin, another stranger
Helps Han Solo
Helps Leia
Helps Kylo ( even after she saw him kill Han Solo )
Helps Luke
Speaks fluent Robot
Speaks fluent Wookie
Knows how to pilot a ship better than trained Tie fighter pilots.
Knows mechanic more than Han and Chewie
Knows how to use the Force WITHOUT ANY TRAINNING.
Instant best friends with ALL OF THE CHARACTERS including Kylo and Snoke
( everybody likes her instantly for no reason )
Knows how to use a lightsaber
Beats Kylo Ren in a mind probe fight
Beats Kylo Ren in a physical fight
Beats Kylo Ren in a moral fight
Beats Luke ( a fully trained jedi ) in a physical fight
Beats Luke ( a jedi master ) in a moral fight
Beats Snoke guards
Is saved deux ex machina style twice at a moment were the hero should face his greatest challenge alone - Abbyss, Death and Return)
Gives orders to Chewbacca ( two times war hero, old enough to be her grandfather)
Gets to keep the millenium falcon ( #wookielivesmatter guys )
Moves millions of huge rocks out of the way
Yoda kisses her ass for no reason
Cave learning: she doesn´t need any parents. She is alone and thats is ok. All she needs is herself.
Knows everything that was on the sacrate Jedi books ( THAT SHE JUST FOUND OUT ABOUT IT ) .
No temptation nor fear to go to the Dark Side ( booooring )
All of this abilities except that she is extremely fragile, naive and immature.... THAT DOESN’T MAKE ANY SENSE !!!
Actually, come to think of it... even Jesus had temptations and moments of despair. She is the worst character ever created.
Ray is a mary sue in force awakens. Sorry Geekdom, but she showed all the signs.
it's just a matter that some didn't want to believe it initially. They gave the benefit of the doubt, hinging on the hope that TLJ would give areason as to Rey's sudden prowess with the force and everything else. I can see where they were coming from, but it's funny seeing the palpable frustration when they realize their two year wait was for naught.
I was hoping they'd give at least some sort of explanation like "she was trained and lost her memories" but this film put the nail in the coffin.
Rey's already bested Kylo twice. The first one having a logical reason as to why, but the second has no logic. She leaves Kylo, who's been trained for a couple decades, unconscious while she escapes.
How they make a fight between them realistic in Episode 9 is beyond me.
A hero is partially defined by their villain. Mary kicks emo's ass every time in every movie, and now snoke is dead. Where's the threat? The first order? Which somehow went from a fringe group that got owned to being the new galactic empire? Will they introduce a new big bad that'll show up for a few scenes and then die? Will huxley be empowered by the force too? How can they get the shit back in the horse?
The problem is that isn't how the Force works. Anakin and Luke are also powerful in the Force. They could use the Force without training. However, they still had to learn how to focus the Force and how to control it. They couldn't just start focusing the Force from the get go.
This Star Wars new trilogy movies is what happened when Disney are making a bunch of disney princess movies with the tag Star Wars on it. Change fantastical magic with "the force," no need of training, no experiences, no rules, not even common physics, just a total wishy-wishy & BANG, you get yourself a godlike characters.
Hell, even "Force of Destiny" is already enough proof of that.
Croz Raven and it sucks just as much. And its canon which makes it even worse
Oh. My. Gosh. I can't believe I didn't see that, too. Disney Princesses in Space.
Mulan had to get training though.
Mulan thrashes Rey as a film and a character.
We do not mention that feminist garbage.
Yea it’s true, we already knew anyone could be a Jedi...so I don’t get that element of this film
The point is she does things only a trained Jedi can do.
Right, got that, but how and why? not even Anakin could do that. Star Wars mirrors real life and previous examples show us that people strong in the force are depicted as ordinary people with extraordinary abilities (Luke and Anakin could both see things faster than normal people which made them amazing pilots). However, only through Jedi/Sith training can they hone these abilities into more.
An ordinary person, even if they grew up in the wilderness, wouldn't be an expert at fighting with a sword. Star Wars aside, its just stupid to think that. And yet here is Rey, fighting off a trained sword fighter.
Sean Victorine Nor to mentioned how many flaws both Anakin and Luke had before reaching the levels they did but Rey..ppfft she just does it out of nowhere.
audiosane Not to mention the million other Jedi's and Siths that existed that make Luke and Anakin seem like nothing so yeah its already a concept been passed and shown before.
I think the problem, or at least the different thing they're pushing, is the idea that ANYONE can be a POWERFUL Jedi. The force, as they said in the first movie, is something tied to all living things. But, its also been established that blood and raw tallent is very important as well. The previous 6 movies have very clearly established that idea, that everyone can't be a Jedi, because few people are sensitive enough to the force to really wield it like a Jedi. And that that sensitivity is something your born with. Its clearly something that can appear randomly, after all the Jedi were able to support what seemes to be a monkish celibate order just on finding the random force sensitive that pop up, but it wasnt something everyone could do. Blood was important though.
So it seemed to spit on the idea of the importance of blood, or at least the idea that force users really are unique, and the idea that rhe force took discipline to use. Especially to use without corrupting the user.
That's something I think got lost here as well: the danger and corrupting influence of power. That's one of the things that makes like a response seem weird, yes, the Jedi fail, but he's ling known that the dark side is the "easy" choice.
Which I guess was another corruption of the idea of effort: one of the more unifying themes of star wars has been that being good is hard: both to be a good fighter, a good Jedi, or a good person.
Ray doesn't really seem to struggle with this that much. It never seems hard for her to be a good person. Theres been nothing to temp her to the dark side in search of an easy solution. Like, as another thing they could have done to be interesting, is one of the two dark side users offering to train her were like is being intransigent. Some sort of temptation.
She's never really gives the sense of having to try or sacrifice for anything in this movie, and it seems to suggest sometime that she shouldn't. And there were so many chances for her to do so: say make her labor for the fish people, starting with repairing hole she blew up: yes, that would be a karate kid like training montage, but at least it be something!
One of the big issues (among MANY with this shitty film) is that Rian Johnson has made it so no one needs to actually care WHAT happens in the next film. He's basically crafted a "Nothing Matters" love letter to burning down everything that made Star Wars so special.
Sadly, you are right. The first order went from a fringe group in TFA to a force large enough in TLJ to take over everything. Also what would happen if Kylo dies, nothing. What happens if Rey dies, nothing.
We are supposed to believe that the entire galaxy is lawless simply because the republic was destroyed?
Really I could some up the problem of these new age movies in one sentence:
“The writers of these scripts believe in *instant gratification* and don’t understand that in the REAL world, you have to FEEL BAD to be GOOD at something.”
You have to train hard to be good at martial arts
You should have to train hard to be a Jedi master, which is based on martial arts.
This movie is like getting to the dessert before the dinner.
Both skywalkers in the previous trilogies lost their hand when they fought without the necessary training. Not for rey though lol.
ARL hell if rey ever does loose a hand she'll probably use the force to regrow it
of course. It all make sense now. She's a timelord in hiding.
Melody Dyk but any good protagonist has failed once or lost once and eventually wins.
ARL Would have been a nice touch. Too bad the movies are shit and the people behind them lack any creativity or respect for Star Wars or compelling writing in general. I'd rather watch Highschool Musical than the new "Star Wars" movies. Honestly doesn't even feel like a Star Wars story with all the agenda, quota filling and forced diversity. There are plenty of compelling female characters in the Extended Universe, namely Bastilla from the KOTOR game. I just don't understand why female characters are treated as FEMALE CHARACTERS instead of characters that happen to be female. It's all so very artificial, fake and lacking in soul. creativity is dead
NOT FOR REY!!
I swear, people watch stuff but only understand 80% of a movie. It was explained Luke was hitting the the hole that size on his farm on. That's why he could destroy the death star. Anakin was already a pilot at an early age before he met Obi won. The force just helped him be even better. Even then he lost to that alien in the pod races before the phantom menace. The force has not ever made a Mary sue until now. All the history thrown out like that.
Both Luke and Anakin never use the force beyond instincutal use in New Hope or Phantom Menace, in Empire and Clones they have a decent amount of control (Anakin more so than Luke since he'd been in training longer) but when they got up an experienced master level guy.. they both get their shit kicked in without much effort, which of course makes their defeats of said evil masters in the next movie mean more.
here Rey is basically pulling shit it took Luke and Anakin YEARS to do in days.
ZeroFallout1 wedge Antilles also survived the attack on the death star and he wasnt force sensitive and luke could have destroyed the death star with a machine but instead used the force and implied the dark side and han solo saved luke from vader and anakin was the chosen one, twice the the potential as luke but could only get a slight boost in reaction time. Something you WILL get if trained enough and especialy if he pod raced before AND on the same race track AND he crashed several time not just lost but crashed
And yeah I see a lot of comments here saying that after episode 7 they still were giving Rey the benefit of the doubt. I was too; I was ready to accept the events of 7. But no, episode 8 has absolutely solidified Rey as a Mary Sue.
That was a mistake right there. It continues to baffle me how people can shit on TLJ, yet defend TFA. As if TFA was any better and not a piece of shit right from the opening crawl, where it was established that everything that the OT heroes did was all for nothing and never amounted to anything.
I think Snoke was only stating that he expected someone to show up and stop them, and he expected it to be Luke.
This isn't highlander. Not only would this idea come out of nowhere, it would be inconsistent with how the force works in multiple ways. If light side force users somehow got more powerful based on the quantity and strength other light side and dark side force users were, then Jedi would have been weaker in the prequel era and earlier, due to their increased numbers. Similarly, Luke would have gotten astronomically more powerful after old ben and yoda died.
Also, if you haven't seen the last few episodes of the clone wars, it explains why jedi before old ben and yoda aren't force ghosts. They are some amazing episodes.
this movie is dreadful
The purple hair lady rocks because she's a woman with purple hair
Feminists : You go girl
" Then the whole room claps"
How do you know the woman with purple hair is really a woman?
Cipher0352 Did you just assume her gender?
Then mace windu is a cool guy because he has a purple stick? Ok.
JJ Abrams set up a lot of exciting questions. He set a lot of “Chekhov’s Guns” on the mantle. Rian Johnson threw ALL of them out and left them all unfired. And he trashed Luke’s character...and don’t even get me started on the plot holes. If Luke wanted to never be found and to die alone, then why did he leave a map- part of which was in R2D2, who remained in sleep mode from the time Luke left (implying he put him in sleep mode) with instructions to awaken and reveal the rest of the map when his friends had found it?
I too defended the accusation she was a Mary Sue after TFA, because I expected an explanation that was consistent with canon. The Last Jedi destroyed that hope, there is no explanation forthcoming. She's just good at everything. The sad truth is that Daisy Ridley trained harder to play the part, than Rey did to become the most powerful Jedi ever. Sad...