I never understood why Snoke says he can see everything going on in Kilos head. He already knows there is conflict within him aswell. So how did he not see the betrayal coming? Also I thought lightsabre ms turn off when you drop them as you have to pour the force through them to use them so how can you activate some else's from range. In a duel why don't people force turn off their opponents lightsaber when they go to block
@@mehforreal6954 whats funny is that there is alot of instances in star wars lore where it is pointed out how dumb it is to turn your back while spinning during a lightsaber fight.
That frozen blaster moment was in the first minute of the first sequel and is easisly the coolest thing that happened the whole trilogy, i was actually stoked at that point
We forget how freaking cool Ren was in the build up to this film. Once he removed his helmet, which should have been a huge moment in the last film, He loses all his cool.
@@miguelpereira9859 It was undercut very quickly with Poe's joke about the mask. It seemed funny at the time because we thought Kylo Ren would punish him for the wisecrack but he doesn't.
My favorite part is right after this throne scene, where Kylo asks Rei to join his 'emo nihilist' side, attack both the new order and the republic, and do their own thing on the ruins. 'Let the past die, kill it if you have to' is probably the most (and only) quotable line in the entire Disney Trilogy, was used to set up this moment, but it goes nowhere, unfortunately
@@zerreinatsu2483 but the prequels actually showcase how Jedi would fight imo. Fast, like a dance and not comparable with real swordsmanship. Cuz Jedi can predict the future. Especially in the duel between anakin and Obiwan they both knew exactly what the opponent would do cuz they were brothers and fighting and training together for ages. In the OT Luke is nowhere near his prime. Look at legends (which ofcourse is sometimes a bit extreme at how powerful Luke becomes) but it showcases how strong he gets. And Luke was fighting with a lot of emotions. Vs Vader.
It irritated me that some of these guys’ armor pieces can block light saber beams but Kylo Ren can also stab through them. Like if you could make a whole fight about the fact that they’re wearing beam proof armor alone. There could have been four of them so there would be less spinning and confusion and the fight would be a desperate bid to get the guys’ armor or helmets off
That would have been cool. Like, Kylo goes for a gut stab or something, and it turns out the armour is Beskar, so they have to actually get creative in how they dispatch them. But that would have required effort and skill, which was severely lacking in the creation of this scene.
4:10 I used to have these lightsaber fights with my brother when we were younger, it´s actually one of my favorite childhood memories, but now that I think about it, given that we are brothers, we didnt try to hit the lightsaber most of the time, we tried hitting the body and I think that was actually a good choice because the fights felt so much more real, as they more or less were real. Thank you Star Wars for giving us an excuse to beat each other with plastic sticks.
All the sequel trilogy fights have the vibe of kids swinging sticks on the playground. Heck, I've had stick fights with higher stakes, because even as kids we'd get emotional sometimes and actually swing to hit.
Rey and Luke literally fought with sticks in one scene. I mean they had the chance to use the coolest weapon of all time and they made one scene with sticks, other scene with Hammil stunt not fighting, the throne room scene with generic energy weapons, and the Knights of Ren vs Kylo with more generic blades. What a waste of our time.
What about Finn vs FN-2199 and Finn vs Kylo Ren? Both of those fights had the high stakes and the weight behind each swing. Finn vs Kylo Ren especially had an emotional weight behind it.
@@windghost2 I agree, Finn facing Kylo Ren out of pure will was the best moment in TFA and I would say my favorite moment in the sequels, it was pathetic the way rian treated him in VIII.
@@ZXPhazze I agree, Finn was supposed to be an intriguing character. "Whoa a possibly force sensitive storm trooper? That's crazy I can't wait to see how he develops when he recovers from his injuries, I'm sure there'll be a small timeskip between movies." and then nope, Rian rejected everything TFA set up for him in order to "subvert expectations". And then when J.J. went back to finish off the trilogy he had to just work with what Rian had done and it's just sad.
to be fair luke also force kicked a guy during episode 6 (his kick clearly doens't connect to one of jabba's guards hence hte invention of the force kick to fix a mistake)
@@CCLOSPINA the problem is it isn't one small mistake it's a ton of noticeable mistakes also it's a different time we expect better from today's industry
I remember someone said that the guard jumping in at 4:26 was really endearing cause he was tryna save his friend and it adds a lot of depth to that character lol
@@Helloiamraymond I was keeping my extra comment in the replies, cause I didn't wanna flood the comment section. I was meaning that the video ruined that perspective of mine.
i mean it seems like a really dope scene at my eyes only that is ejecuted like shit, a royal guard that can stop a lightsaber (who is like the strongest and dangerous hand to hand weapon in Star Wars) with is own hands sounds pretty dope
I wanna know how his arms could block the lightsaber but Kylo could still stab the last guy through his helmet. You’d think if they were gonna make one part of the armor lightsaber-resistant they would make all of it resistant. Or at least make the parts of the armor protecting vital organs (like the brain) resistant.
I’ve always said that the perfect metaphor for the sequels is Kylo’s helmet in TFA it starts off as a clear imitation but it’s still solid enough to grow into its own identity then TLJ completely shatters any and all plans they may have had to begin with and TROS is forced to pick up the pieces to try and fix it and salvage it but you can clearly see that the damage is already and permanently done
why did they change directors for the last jedi? seems like having the same director for all three movies would have at least made the trilogy more cohesive.
This narrative is garbage. Im sorry. I enjoyed episode 7 the first time round, also, but it’s very clear now that JJ had no idea where to take any of those “mystery boxes.” Rhian is a hack, but he’s not the only one to blame. Even if JJ had all three movies, he was stilling “LOSTing” us
Disagree. The best fight in the ST is Finn vs Kylo Ren. Why? Because he was fighting him to protect Rey and in doing so, he was finally facing his main fear of The First Order which is Kylo Ren. In doing so he got injured trying to protect her from him which was noble.
@@CTRaptor I honestly didn't think too much about him when I first saw that scene in theaters 7 years ago. But after I read Before The Awakening by Greg Ruka (REALLY GOOD book on Finn, Rey and Poe's characters; it takes place at least 6 months before the movie. I recommend it.) it became clear to me exactly WHO nines was and it makes sense as too why he's mad at Finn.
It’s really sad seeing my dad a MASSIVE FAN of star wars go from being so excited and non stop talking about Star Wars to just never mentioning it again
Your dad sounds like a bitch. The old star wars movies are full of so much camp but this is what made him give up? Im sure it has nothing to do with his sad life that involved raising you
i went into TFA with low expectations and found it enjoyable. had the same low expectations for TLJ based on early impressions. it was even worse than my mega low expectations could have prepared me for. I still haven't watched Ep 9.
I feel bad for Adam driver, cos he actually a really good actor and although he probably played the most developed character in the squalls.. It was still an angry baby man with a glow stick.. I kinda feel he got delt a real bad hand bc I think he actually played his part really well. He's also really good in other movie so
Who ever casted him it was a horrible choice. He's too soft looking for me to take him seriously as a villain. At the very least they shouldve made more of a distinction between Ben and kylo
@@manz7860 that’s the point though he isn’t a villain he’s just trying to be one and his appearance of looking soft aids in the perspective of him trying to be one when everyone knows he’s not and he is good.
1 Imperial Royal Guard: Literally held off an army of 500 Stormtroopers and like 50 AT-STs by himself in the comics. 8 Praetorian Guards (supposedly even more skilled): Beaten by a dessert hobo with no training and a talentless dark Anakin
On the topic of Rey being a desert hobo, why doesn't she look like one? When we first meet her in TFA, she doesn't look at all malnourished or ragged from her years in the desert. Also she's far too trusting for somebody from a dog-eat-dog planet like Jakku.
Lucas had to tell them to slow down with their moves because they were struggling to capture them, they put heart, soul and sweat into them moments and hats off to them. Say what you want about acting, but they knew how important that fight was for everyone so gave it what it deserved
Isn't there an interview with the stunt coordinator where he basically says that Ridley was too unathletic for him to incorporate anything advanced into her choreography? Compare that to Ewan and Haden who were essentially in peak physical condition and trained for hours every day for their fights? I bet the stunt coordinator's opinion wasn't even consulted during casting
@@sriganeshthota4918 could just give her a more passive and defensive role in the battle. Hell, even have her thrown around and basically defeated, it would be more realistic to then have an actually trained fighter like kylo save her
@@weavercs4014 it would, but then u realise that the one who takes care of star wars is a raging retarded feminist who does not understand a the story and turns it in to a huge scale woman power comercial
The throne room fight was really weird for me, because on first watching, especially in the theater, it felt incredible and engrossing, and on later rewatches you realize just how watered down it all feels. They make out the Praetorian Guard to be these combat gods who could go toe to toe with Jedi without issue, but they ended up feeling really hollow in retrospect. They're cooler and more interesting design wise than Palpatine's Royal Guard, but their fight scene is just so rife with issues that all it amounts to is ankle deep spectacle with little else to offer.
That’s because nearly any movie or TV fight scene you start slowing down to search for seams and cracks in the choreography results in you, duh, finding the seams and cracks in the choreography. You find things like Luke’s fingers peaking out after his hand gets chopped off in ESB. Luke whiffing a kick in ROTJ when fighting on the barge. Darth Maul’s lightsaber switching hands between shots in TPM so that Kenobi doesn’t chop off his own arm when he jumps up at him at the end of the fight. And so on. RJ could have chopped up the fight into pieces with a million quick cuts to remove all the flaws, but he would rather have the flourish of the long takes even if it came out imperfect.
6:35 He didn't just swing and miss, he literally stopped one of the other guards' weapon. As someone who wants to learn swordfighting, this is depressing. Edit, nevermind he brought it up.
Lol I know nothing about propee sword fighting but pretty sure they hired expert sword fighters for phantom menace. Yeah these battles literally do seem like *kid battles where you just smack each other's weapons, he's so right.
The reason for the Guards' armor's "selective effectiveness" is because apparently they can resist strikes from the side of a lightsaber's blade but not direct stabs.. For some reason
@@beng4ll967 Yes, but that's metal swords against metal armor. This is a sword made of thousand degree energy against armor made from a fictional material
@@rainbow_vader As far as I know, it's more of an achievement that they had any lightsaber resistant properties, I'm fairly sure that's a highly rare thing for any material to have, let alone an entire suit of armor
7:58 Could you imagine how a fight like this would have looked with peak Vader? Just as they assume combat stance each one of them is forcibly frozen and lifted by their throats as Vader nonchalantly turns around, before closing his fist and letting them all drop to the floor, completely lifeless. Cool lightsaber fights can be awesome, but sometimes a display of unmatched force power can do so much more.
Well, when I watched this, I thought these dudes were the Knights of Ren. Because those guys had literally never been seen on screen, so who else would they be? But no, they're just random dudes and ultimately just there to kill time. Like everything else in this movie. God, these movies were just made by complete hacks.
George Lucas poured his heart and soul into his movies. The dueling scenes for Star Wars is part of what makes Star Wars so special and for Disney to f*** it up says alot.
@@bliots8369 George Lucas actually had a sequel trilogy planned which would be Luke rebuilding the jedi order, the empire has crumbled, maul controlling crime and Leia struggling to take down maul and his crime which would have been so much better(I suck at explaining so just look it up for a better grasp of what it would be)
@@GuestGaming88 that sounds so cool! I just hate how they brought back Palpatine out of nowhere, essentially disregarding Anakin's sacrifice and the prophecy just to have him be killed by Rey reflecting his own lightning back at him... like how is that more effective than being thrown down a reactor core and exploding?
Rey: has a hard time fighting snokes twirling elite guards yoda: just destroys palpatines royal guards instantly with the force yoda: couldn't kill palpatine Rey: kills palpatine with his own lightning *WHAT*
After having watched Shadiversity's take on both the throne room scene and the Mustafar fight, it's SOOO clear that the fight from Episode 8 was amazingly STUPID. Shad's probably an expert when it comes to sword fighting, and he saw SOOO many flaws with the Throne Room Fight, while getting blown away by how well done the Mustafar fight was choreographed. And seeing this just tells me the same thing. Sure, the choreographer they used for Episode 8 might have been good at his job and all, but they simply did not have the time. Episode 8 was literally put together in a single year because of Bob Iger. And Rian Johnson, who technically is a good director, does not seem to play well with others, and wanted SOOO badly to write SOME form of end to HIS story, that he wrote Star Wars into a corner. Contrasting this is Episode 3. It was Directed by George Lucas himself, who made sure the story would fit well into the Original trilogy, and follow the rules of Star Wars etc. Making us love characters such as Obi-Wan and Palpatine even more than we already did. And that movie was made over several years. The results are clear as crystal. Making a big block buster movie in a single year is a bad idea. YOU HEAR ME, BOB IGER?!? IT'S A BAD IDEA!!!
There was an expert in I believe sword fighting on IGN and he watched the sequel fights and said the episode 8 fight looked cool and some of the fighting was well done. People have different opinions, every expert can have difference of opinion because really all this is is people waving a laser sword around. Yes the prequels had training that was intense, the OT had heavy hilts according to mark and OT George wanted a different fighting style, the sequels couldn’t fight like Jedi in the PT because that’s unrealistic because only Luke could teach them combat and he didn’t fight like prequel Jedi. The sequels should’ve fleshed the story out more and taken more time. The fights aren’t nearly as bad as people make it seem, especially when they slow down the fight for some reason to over analyze one split second thing no one would notice otherwise unless you slowed the movie down and looked for mistakes
I don't think it was because of Iger that the movie was filmed in one year. It was actually because Rian was just done with it in one year. That's certainly possible, considering he did not rewrite anything in his initial script. Yes, this entire movie is based on Rian's first draft. Nothing was changed.
Its almost like one character is a rage filled (*checks notes*) child in a mans body and the other is completely new to lightsaber combat and only used a long baton (a swinging weapon) as her main defense before. Crazy what just 2 seconds of plot analysis does, but i get thats too complicated for people with your brain capacity.
@Ughstopped That literally only proves the exact opposite. Why would they hold back and aim for where no one even is anymore if they were rage filled or inexperienced? It's not like they were just missing, they were actively making really strange decisions that don't make sense *especially* considering the rage. Maybe you should do another couple of seconds of thinking before calling someone else stupid. Or has Disney's dick gone so far down your throat you stopped thinking properly? How do their boots taste?
@@Ughstopped Then why did snokes highly trained guard lose to them? If you think about the production as a whole and not the plot itself you understand why it sucks
@@Ughstopped Explaining why it's bad doesn't make it good. If it was intentionally made bad, that doesn't make it good either. it just means it is bad by design and doesn't change the fact that it is bad either way. Also, it doesn't explain why the guard is so terrible. They are supposed to be the best of the best, yet most mistakes come from them. And even then, if you grab a random person, even if you grab a 50 year old person that has never done anything physical their entire life. You give him a lightsaber and he has to fight for his life against that guard... I guarantee you that even this random person, would know they have to attack the actual person and not their weapons. Even the worst of the worst, would know not to attack the weapons. So even if I grant you everything, you are still wrong.
Also, wouldn’t the saber have to start behind Snoke when its turned on and then be pulled in front for his whole body to come clean off? There’s no way the saber is the exact thickness of Snokes body and if it started behind him, he would’ve heard it turn on before looking so shocked he’s been stabbed
@@ultrabigfella If you watch the part in the movie where Snoke gets cut in half - When the lightsaber is turned on it is in Snokes hand in front of him, for him to have been cut in half the lightsaber would have had to start behind him and be pulled forward unless the lightsaber is the perfect width of Snokes body and somehow was turned on directly in the middle... surely Snoke would have noticed the lightsaber turn on behind him on the arm rest and got off his seat before it got moved forward to cut him in half
I’ve been wondering about that since I watched it, the saber is at most around the middle of snokes body, nowhere near the back. I get it was a cool shot but there was no reason he should’ve been cut in half.
@@ultrabigfella He is literally split into two, our bodies aren’t like tree branches they don’t just snap off when a certain percentage of it is cut through, skin is more elastic-like for that 😂
This fight legitimately makes me mad. It's an absolute disgrace to Star Wars and whoever greenlighted it has a gigantic lack of respect for the franchise. Absolutely unacceptable and disgusting.
Genuinely get help. If you have this poor of a life perspective (nevermind just being wrong about the scene), you need professional help. But if you're watching content like this, you're probably well beyond any actual help.
@@yoshiki7757Nah. This fight scene was an insult not only to Star Wars fans but even average movie goers. You being totally fine with absolute shit is not the problem of other commenters. 🤷♂️
I would love to talk to one of the vfx people that worked on this scene. Even on the vfx there is stuff wrong like for example: In 7:54 Kylos arm is behind his body, but the lightsaber blade is in front of him. It's hilarious, but there is no way stuff like that gets missed in post, so they probably thought: He needs to have some sort of cover while he gets attacked. "Lets put the blade in front of him even though it makes zero sense. Noone will notice" xD
I’ve watched that clip several times now, he is point long his blade in front of his body. His arm being at his side would not interfere with him doing this. I don’t understand what the complaint is here.
The blade looks like he is pointing it in front of his body. In fact he is holding the prop at his side as well. You can see that in the way his hand holds the saber and also considering, that if this was correct he should have cut his leg off.
Tbh prequel duels had tons of intentional misses and aiming for the blade, but yeah, they were done in good taste and never were this kind of a dogshit mess.
Also a LOT of the techniques in the prequels are actually practical Shadaversity breaksdown Anakin vs Obi-Wan and goes into detail plus yknow there was the lightsaber fighting techniques. And the fights are so fast and well done you cant even tell
Lightsaber fighting has actual forms. For example Obi-Wan and Anakin both standing each other spinning their blades, purposefully missing each other was lightsaber form combat looking for openings.
@Jon Yeah the fight is wonky but that can be attributed to Vader and Obi-Wan being old men who can't do flips and being the first movie in the saga. TLJ has no excuse since they've had 40 years to improve the duels. Instead, we get the worst aspects of the originals and the prequels. Edit: Also, your comment is literally whataboutism, a logical fallacy.
Imagine if they retcon this, some random unknown jedi in the background was actually toying with the guards while they were fighting without them knowing
@@FerunaLutelou I think the only really big problem is the terrible, plot-armor-infused choreography. But that one problem ends up making the entire scene look laughable once you are aware of it.
The fight scene was the only part of the movie that I liked, then I decided to rewatch the scene while focusing on each character... I will never be able to unsee that monstrosity
It has kinda the same mistakes. Djarin against the death droids and against Esposito's character are bad choreographed battles too. It seems they never learn. Well, TCW season 7 (and the few battles Rebels had) did really well.
@@r.c.c.10 I didn't mind that as much, because the wild swinging Gideon used was logical for his character, he's a Moff not a Sith and is using raw aggression to compensate for a lack of skill.
That last episode is shit anyways. Only good part was Luke taking the kid away so the abysmal show would finally come to an end. I will give it one thing though. The greatest laugh I've ever had was when Boba put that armor on and it only reached like halfway over his gut. Even the actor couldn't give a crap to get in shape.
Episode II Count Dooku V Obi-Wan & Anakin was a really cool fight--my favorite part was when Anakin takes Kenobi's saber for a little two-handed action. Wish that had lasted longer
@@amethystglare nah man I have just recently seen an analysis by a professional sword fighter and expert and he actually claimed that the fight and also this around swinging is pretty realistic.
What I've noticed is that modern Star Wars fights look more like the blades are both going to the same point to meet one another, not to block or attack, but to just meet there.
Supposedly, the stuntmen kept having to compensate for missed cues and missed timings, so they kept twirling and others to try keep time with cues that were hit. I believe one of the Stuntmen react with the Corridor Crew covers this.
What the fuck? Literally full of errors and Rian was just like "Yeah, we'll keep that one. It's not like this is a franchise known for its massive, fiercely loyal, and detail-obsessesed fanbase. Nobody will notice."
Yeah the whole " it took them 25 takes so it should be perfect" shows how little he knows about fight choreography, 25 takes is less than à day of shooting iirc Jackie chan had simpler scènes with fewer actors and better trained main actors and it still took months to do one fight scene. 25 takes for such à complex fight might as well be one take
@@revanruler6404 yup The actors in the first matrix all trained for like half a year to get their choreography and strength good enough for the action and did months of takes and reshoots. all the main actors where close to 40 when they did this and they nailed it . Rian just did not care to make it good.
I've trained in sword-fighting (particularly German fencing) and TLJ throne room fight is just laughable to me. The characters treat their lightsabers (which are laser-SWORDS) like clubs and just swing them around while hoping that they hit something. People like to simplify sword-fighting but there's actually a lot of stances and footwork involved.
I've heard that Luke's flurry of swings at the end of RotJ is actually based on German Longswordsmanship, even using a key stance as he's pushing up on Vader. Is there any truth to this?
@@dangerdash4393 It's been awhile since I last saw RotJ but I do recall seeing Luke using what is known as "Vom Tach" ("from the roof") and "Ochs" ("ox"), both of which are stances/attacks in German fencing.
@@shadowking9739 not to mention that in light saber combat the best way to use a light ehem SABER is exactly like a SABER. There’s no point in using heavy strikes really as it’s not really damaging the blades effectiveness nor is it making the cut on the opponent more effective. If you drop a saber on top of someone’s head it’ll go right through them with no effort whatsoever. Where as a normal blade, taking a light hit to the knuckles isn’t the end of the world but certainly painful, in light saber combat that’s the loss of your fingers.
@@dangerdash4393 technically speaking chewie took kylo down. If Chewie doesn’t shoot kylo, kylo isn’t injured and if kylo isn’t injured Rey gets taken out. Not killed because he wanted her and so did snoke. And are you talking about the guard fight? They’re background characters going against the main characters do you really think they’re going to win? I mean cmon
@@thorodinson1933 Ren's injury doesn't really hold up though, he takes Finn down with ease, pretty much bored throughout most of the fight. It's the closest he's ever gotten to being like Vader. And he never really loses stamina in dealing with either his or Rey. It's like midway through the fight with Rey, they remember that he's supposed to be seriously injured and struggling to hold himself together. I expected there to be an actual fight. These guys are a far cry from what Ren says about them in the novelization. These guys are supposed to be the biggest threat, and they're mowed down so easily by an unstable dark Jedi and a wannabe baseball player.
I was mad Snoke was killed off so early in TLJ. I wanted to know more about him and see what would happen with him in Episode 9. Guess we’ll never know....
@@citizenvulpes4562 Sorry should've clarified. I was mad that he was killed off in TLJ and then I got even angrier when it was revealed that he was a clone of Palps in TROS. Like there were books talking about how powerful and crazy evil this dude was for like 2 years before episode 8, then he's killed in TLJ and THEN he's a damn clone of DJ Palpy! Like I wanted him to be a new character someone we didn't know and someone we would learn more about in the next two movies, I was honestly disappointed that we never got that.
@@windghost2 actually it's worse than that. There's apparently a new comic in which it's heavily implied that Snoke is a clone made from Luke's hand, and that's the least worse reveal in the comic.
9:20 it’s forbidden to turn your lightsaber off and back on again during a fight to get an advantage on your enemy. This is a know thing between both Jedi and Sith. The Jedi see it as unsportsmanlike. And the sith see it as being week. They probably don’t even know that though
9:20 That move is criminally neglected in all of Star Wars (except for some Legends stuff I think). The ability to make your blade disappear and reappear is such a unique mechanic but because it has no equivalent in the real world, nobody seems to know how to implement it in a fictional fight. And that's a shame. So many cool possibilities!
@@No.1GodzillaGlazer not only that but if you think about it realistically it might not be as good of a strategy as most people think it is. I mean when you turn it off, sure you pass their blade, but for that split second you lose ALL defense AND offense, you basically just completely disarm yourself. Anyone with any amount of reaction time would for sure be able to take advantage of that.
I believe the Sith rejected this move due to it showing weakness, and the Jedi did the same due to the unethical nature of it. However, I don’t believe that this scenario would fit the quota. I believe it was utilizing that move to create a finisher, eg facing the saber hilt towards an opponent and activating it..
*Rey used Block* _Guard uses spiny stab_ It's highly ineffective! *Rey uses double attack* _Guard uses spiny slash_ He hit his own friend! _Rey stabs the floor_ *Guard has spun away* You won! 30xp
During that throneroom fight that guy you focused on was supposed to swing while Rey was supposed to duck. However, Daisy Ridley apparently/allegedly forgot to duck until a few seconds later so he had to raise his weapon so as not to hit her. However, instead of Daisy forgetting to duck it could also be that the red guard was ahead of the scene by 2s and was too early to strike so he had to swing higher and miss. You can clearly see Rey ducking to avoid a weapon that's not there. She was supposed to duck that swing. But yeah, I blame the director and stunt coordinator. The director should have said "CUT!" and reset the fight while the stunt coordinator should have instructed the actors on proper timing again. Another issue with the red guy who had those two knives. They just edited the other knife out in post because otherwise he would have been in the perfect spot to just stab Rey in the back.
See, the problem was they wanted to do as much of the fight with as few cuts as possible. That's damn hard because it requires everyone to be spot on for extended periods of time. Sure, they could have chopped and changed, used stunt doubles and all the rest. But this way you get to see faces, the audience relates to the characters more and the scene should have more impact. Sure, if you want to slow it down to two frames per second you'll get to see all the little mistakes, like the mistimed attack you mention, but at normal speed most people will see what you want them to see.
@@katrinapaton5283 everyone I've talked to said this fight scene sucked. You won't notice EVERY mistake at normal speed...but it's almost impossible to miss all of them, and then BOOM you're out of the scene. The frame by frame analysis isn't where the scene falls apart...it's just necessary to see exactly WHY it falls apart.
“It’s almost as if the director told them how to do it, and the stuntmen all had to go along with it” Yeah that’s probably exactly what happened. None of this is the fault of the actors, stuntmen, or coordinator. You have to do what the director says and when you’re working with the Disney Overlords, you are not allowed to complain or argue. Don’t act like this happened because the stunt coordinator dropped the ball, the actors were bad, or the stuntmen didn’t know what they were doing. If you want a better look at this fight from an actual stuntman, I recommend watching Corridor Crew’s video on this fight scene featuring Eric Linden. They have a whole series where they sit down with stuntmen and stuntwomen and review movie stunts, including the throne room scene, and it’s very informative. The specific video I’m talking about is the first one in their playlist so it’s easy to find. They also discuss the same fight scene from Mission Impossible mentioned in this video
This fight scene was a pretty damn good idea, and those guards look sick as hell, but it was executed horribly, rey kicks 3 people somehow, the guards spin around for no reason, the guards completely miss all their swings, and a weapon is literally edited out, and I guess rain forgot that Rey and Kylo can use the force because they don't use it once in this fight scene
@@dapoox2622 but I do believe that with Star Wars you have to let go of logic sometimes if you focus too much on certain things it can kinda ruin something that otherwise is pretty good imo
I love how at 1:18 they made Maul actually have to look to see where he's throwing the debris to open the door. Not only does it make the action look more visceral, it implies a limitation to the force. Nowadays they'd never have a Jedi/Sith look to see where they're chucking stuff, they'd just wave their hand and it would hone right in on the target. It really gives a sense of weight and realism to the fight that nu-directors just don't have the talent to conceive of and implement.
The biggest problem with this fight is everyone is aiming to for their opponents weapon instead of striking to kill and at the worst of times they aim above their opponent ... ive seen fan films with better choreography ryan vs dorkman 2 ring a bell
Bruh at the start the guards in the back are just standing in their place doing stupid flips and spins. That's a level of retardedness I thought we'd never see in this franchise.
What could have been a nice alteration in my opinion, that in the scene with Prunehead, that Ben actually killed Rey, which then would set up Bens questioning of his own actions, which by the final film would have resolved in him trying to establish communication with the rebels in ways of helping them taking out Prunehead, which then would become the Rise of "Skywalker"ish. Maybe... It is just an idea I got.
Holy-- that would have been amazing! It would seriously throw the audience off and legitimately throw the Resistance's fate into question instead of the usual mentality of "bad guy winning but good guy have plot armour". Even better point: Rey can't come back as a Force Ghost at that point because Luke never taught her! Would Finn take up the mantle? Would Kylo regret his actions? Would Finn even use the Force, or just a lightsaber and blaster? That would be really interesting if Finn was never a Force user, but just a good fighter and can outsmart Kylo...
when i saw this fight was coming, i thought Kylo would always be the one with the upper hand and helping Rey, since those are highly trained guards and more trained than Rey, and i thought "hope Kylo helps her, she's out matched" and then, well, she just kills them all no problem
I’m really surprised that Adam hasn’t developed scoliosis considering he literally carried the whole f**king trilogy on his back. But for real though. The sequel trilogy of Star Wars might be one of the worst trilogies I’ve ever seen. The Force Awakens was decent, I guess, and The Rise of Skywalker personally didn’t want to make me sever my own eyeballs out and set them on fire after dousing them in acid (and I know this is a very unpopular opinion but please do not hate me) but The Last Jedi was just HORRIBLE. Like, I’ve watched all the other eight episodes in their entirety, but I turned this one off after twenty minutes. I’ve watched certain clips online, and Adam is the only thing about the sequel trilogy that I can confidently point to and say that I like, even if Kylo is essentially a Darth Vader / Anakin Skywalker wannabe. Speaking of the Skywalkers, the saddest part about the whole thing is someone actually posted a ten minute compilation of Mark Hamill bashing the sequel movies, and every single one of his criticisms were completely accurate. I have absurdly low standards, which is why I actually prefer the prequels over the original movies (though I think my opinion that Revenge of The Sith is the G.O.A.T of the entire franchise is a pretty popular one) but come on. The Last Jedi is the literary equivalent of spending your entire efforts on the cover art and having the rest be utter garbage.
People say TFA was just A New Hope again, but TLJ was also just Empire again. Rey goes to train with a mentor on a secluded planet since her old one just died (Han), Rebels are being chased across the galaxy by the Empire, Rebels attempt to go to a prosperous city for help and get betrayed, Rey leaves training early to save her friends only to fail, and the Rebels get chased by walkers on a white planet and escape in the Falcon. I guess they took Luke dying randomly from Jedi, and the throne room scene was just Vader killing the emperor essentially. They just mixed up moments we've already seen in the most convoluted way possible and without any of the needed character building.
John Boyega got fucking robbed and he knows it. Such a cool concept for a character played by a guy who has made it abundantly clear how much he loves Star Wars, and TLJ destroyed all of his potential by relegating him to such an uninteresting side plot and robbing him of his emotional climax. Such a shame. I really feel bad for him because not only does he have the balls to criticize the sequels after acting in them, but he also criticized his role in them and how he was treated. There’s a great interview with him that only made me respect him more.
*THANK YOU!!* I've seen so many people say this was the best Lightsaber battle in the history of Star Wars. In a world where Anakin vs Obi-wan in ROTS exists, how can anyone with even a decent amount of vision and some intelligence even say that?
Nowadays, flashier and “spectacle” fights are way more appreciated and popular than skillful and “realistic” fights. Like you said, This One V.S Basically the entire prequel trilogy. Spectacle VS Realism/Skill
LOL, they were dancing and swinging like pirates while floating around on lava….ROTS duel was cringy as hell with god awful dialogue. Best lightsaber duel list. Vader Luke 1 Vader Luke 2 Vader Kenobi - Eps 6 of Kenobi Maul v Kenobi Maul v Kenobi v Qui Gon
The throne room scene could have been soo much better if they employed force powers more for crowd control, and thinning out the enemies numbers quickly.
This is incredible: everytimeI watch this scene (or I watch an anlysis of it) I discover more mistakes. And it's the same for the whole movie! WTF, how anyone can say this movie is better than any prequel movie, let alone being an actual good movie?!
Could have been so much more with the older script. Even tho I don't like the Plot of the First Order and the Resistance in general, the original Plot they had planed for the sequel trilogy could have saved it
@@manz7860 LMAO, I am fine with his face but I just think that he should put on the mask in fight scenes like the ship because the mask looks scary and powerful.
The last Jedi, such a cool name such a shitty movie.. it was literally the end. I was so disappointed and I’m semi easy to please. I loved the prequels, phantom menace and return of the sith were awesome.
I can't believe that he expected her to take the first day learning the "training rock" scene but she "picked it up quick" she was fr just moving it back and forth
It was the worst fight, it was the best fight, it was a funny fight wrapped in one. To be honest they should have just let Kylo Ren have the floor because he was doing more work than Rey!
@@quicklyform5162 ...she was doing ok in the beginning, but looked like she ran out of steam at the end and for the record I'm not putting Rey down, I'm just sayin' that training we hoped would happened with Luke, could have come in handy at the end.
"The FX looks really good" And THAT is why most Star Wars fans hate it. It's literally all about special effects. The minute you actually look at the fight as a fight, it all goes to dogshit.
@@diganmelaraxd6981 Guys it's like how Zack approached Superman and Batman for his films, deconstructing them. That's the same thing Rian did. And why are you still saying its a bad film since they made Luke a coward?
Since these movies are considered cannon (unfortunately) why not have it so Ray gets stabbed in the back there and goes down, then Kylo can use the dark side of the force with his anger and force choke everyone. At least then the Mary Sue gets hurt, force heal is shown, Kylo gets some character development and Kylo gets to become a little bit of a Darth Vader feel as he chokes everyone or maybe crushes the guards in their armour. God I wish these movies weren't made.
Who here’s seen Scene 38 Reimagined? Disney keep saying it’s not canon, even though it has no bearing on the events and was just made to improve the dreary saber fight in A New Hope (still a masterpiece of a movie though).
At least the choreography can mask some of the unnecessary moves since they were moving very fast. Shadiversity has a breakdown of the final fight in ROTS highly recommended.
@@thorodinson1933 Ye mate, if u saw the naboo battle (Darth Maul vs Obi and Qui-gon) u would notice the same errors. jedis spin a lot and nobody never had a problem with that before, but anything that comes from The Last Jedi is garbage for those who hated the movie, even the best scenes like this
@@sparkz2999 These are Jedi and Sith, masters of the force, that can sense their opponent's next move and use misdirection to get an opening. TLJ is literally regular humans with no speed buff slowly turning around like they're Cervantes.
@@dangerdash4393 Misdirection to get a opening doesn't equal spinning like a retard m8, if us humans without the force know that spinning doesn't do anything imagine master of the force
The funny thing about the Holdo maneuver is it's insanely reckless. Thanks to the High Republic books we know what happens to ships destroyed in hyperspace. If any of her ship made it I to hyperspace proper then bits of it will be re-emerging in a swath at near light speeds. A metal strut glancing the edge of a planet wiped out a mega city.
Rey is too OP, she beats Kylo in Force Awakens, 1 day later she beats Red Guards who protect snoke, she fights Kylo in ROS , and kills him, she kills palpatine with her force power, overall score: Mary Sue
Pixels it’s months later and Kylo was winning the fight on the Death Star. He was distracted because lea was calling to him. Look at the scene you idiot
@@G-H-Productions11 no its not stop lying, God you are a idiot lol LF admitted TLJ takes place 24 hours after TFA get over yourself and keep waiting for every little tid bit of LF retcon that theyve doing trying to stream line the runny bubbly shit of a trilogy no ones buying it anymore. maREY Sue maREY Sue get triggered
CynicallyObnoxious this is why I hate Star Wars fans. You seem like the one who’s triggered. I don’t care. Also, I’m right about the second part. Your the real idiot if your that upset over a movie. Get a life
The major issue here seems to be too many enemies. Having so many fighters is super hard to coordinate realistically. They could have easily solved this with just less fighters or even better have Rey and Kylo use force powers to keep most of them at a distance. Or maybe a cool hybrid combination of some of the guards having ranged weapons and we see the first melee and ranged weapon lightsaber fight.
My best guess for 6:30 is that Daisy was supposed to move to block that hit, but missed her cue, and the dude had an “oh sh*t” moment and quickly corrected to not hit her
If you only knew the power of the dark side 😈 We actually have it in the best discord on the planet! Come say hi discord.gg/ESMxk27
What about Obi one Sykerater.
I never understood why Snoke says he can see everything going on in Kilos head. He already knows there is conflict within him aswell. So how did he not see the betrayal coming? Also I thought lightsabre ms turn off when you drop them as you have to pour the force through them to use them so how can you activate some else's from range. In a duel why don't people force turn off their opponents lightsaber when they go to block
Witch planet
You idiot this scene is better why did you think it's worse haters!
@MAR poor lost “Star Wars”fanboy, you didn’t even watch the video did you
Jedi and sith: 7 forms of lightsaber combat
Rey and Kylo: swing swing
You can see a lightsaber used better by beatsaber players on youtube 😀
I mean...the forms of combat were lost during The Purge. How would they know them?
@Wes Bradley-Taubner how did he study the past Jedi?
@Wes Bradley-Taubner damn that's actually really cool. It sucks we didn't get to see Luke's Order come to fruition in canon.
@Itachi Is superior to you Exactly! They may be considered OP, but they at least make sense to why they are.
Maybe they were actually trying to hit them, but they were to dizzy because of all the spinning they were doing.
LoL.
This whole fight is so Zanny like there is no logic to it
I'll try spinning that's a good trick
@@mehforreal6954 whats funny is that there is alot of instances in star wars lore where it is pointed out how dumb it is to turn your back while spinning during a lightsaber fight.
Cringey.
When the lego version of a fight is better than the actual fight, we have a problem
That lego starwars game is one helluva masterpiece too lol
Seriously it was so fun in The Skywalker saga!
in deed, even stop motion is better then the new star wars films
To be fair...they did the General Grievous fight better as well.
Luckily, it's not
That frozen blaster moment was in the first minute of the first sequel and is easisly the coolest thing that happened the whole trilogy, i was actually stoked at that point
We forget how freaking cool Ren was in the build up to this film. Once he removed his helmet, which should have been a huge moment in the last film, He loses all his cool.
@@DigitDesign He even has his helmet off twice in the first movie. I couldn't understand that decision.
Lol the sequels actually peaked in that very first scene
@@miguelpereira9859 It was undercut very quickly with Poe's joke about the mask. It seemed funny at the time because we thought Kylo Ren would punish him for the wisecrack but he doesn't.
My favorite part is right after this throne scene, where Kylo asks Rei to join his 'emo nihilist' side, attack both the new order and the republic, and do their own thing on the ruins. 'Let the past die, kill it if you have to' is probably the most (and only) quotable line in the entire Disney Trilogy, was used to set up this moment, but it goes nowhere, unfortunately
Not only is this the worst fight in all of Star Wars, but it’s the single *best* scene in The Last Jedi. That’s really saying something.
2nd best scene in TLJ. Best scene is Kylo saying MORE.
You mean better than taking down a star destroyer with space horses!
The only good scene is Luke on the Falcon reuniting with R2. The only moment where I felt like I was watching an actual star wars movie.
It wasn’t a good scene the best scene is when anakin saber is going to try and it is not because it looks cool it is just the music doing the work
If it's the best scene in last jedi the other scenes are worse therefore it can't be the worst I agree just saying word it better
I think what I dislike the most is them swinging swords like baseball bats.
Psssst original trilogy did the exact same thing you know
@@gaziasker7683 Huh? OT is literally based on traditional swordsmanship.
@@gaziasker7683 the OT is like a real duel, in PT its flashy, in ST they made it look like lightsabers are fucking heavy
@@zerreinatsu2483 but the prequels actually showcase how Jedi would fight imo. Fast, like a dance and not comparable with real swordsmanship. Cuz Jedi can predict the future. Especially in the duel between anakin and Obiwan they both knew exactly what the opponent would do cuz they were brothers and fighting and training together for ages. In the OT Luke is nowhere near his prime. Look at legends (which ofcourse is sometimes a bit extreme at how powerful Luke becomes) but it showcases how strong he gets. And Luke was fighting with a lot of emotions. Vs Vader.
@@theemperorofdrifts5854 yep, thats what I really like about the prequels, the lightsaber duels
Fun fact : they had to slow down duel of the fates because the actors were so good it would have looked fake
At least for obi wans part
josephthemighty yes they did, it’s a fact
@josephthemighty yes they did, ewan mcgregor, ray park, and liam neeson practiced and memorized the moves perfectly and moved very fast
@josephthemighty yes they actually did
Duel of the fates, suffering from success
It irritated me that some of these guys’ armor pieces can block light saber beams but Kylo Ren can also stab through them. Like if you could make a whole fight about the fact that they’re wearing beam proof armor alone. There could have been four of them so there would be less spinning and confusion and the fight would be a desperate bid to get the guys’ armor or helmets off
Yeah, John Wick 3 and 4 showed that you can make interesting fights out of having to work around invulnerable armour.
So moff gideon vs mando
@@jtho8937it's stupid.
That would have been cool. Like, Kylo goes for a gut stab or something, and it turns out the armour is Beskar, so they have to actually get creative in how they dispatch them. But that would have required effort and skill, which was severely lacking in the creation of this scene.
If you want to enjoy this fight you kinda have to disregard logic and common sense. Nothing that happens in this scene makes any sense.
4:10 I used to have these lightsaber fights with my brother when we were younger, it´s actually one of my favorite childhood memories, but now that I think about it, given that we are brothers, we didnt try to hit the lightsaber most of the time, we tried hitting the body and I think that was actually a good choice because the fights felt so much more real, as they more or less were real. Thank you Star Wars for giving us an excuse to beat each other with plastic sticks.
@The Leaprachaun grievous took it
you mean “Thank you Disney”
@@trollkenobi6727 No, not Disney, this was before Disney took over.
@@darthmalgus9267 Look at his or her name
@@basketballplayer82 oh, oh no, I have been tricked
All the sequel trilogy fights have the vibe of kids swinging sticks on the playground. Heck, I've had stick fights with higher stakes, because even as kids we'd get emotional sometimes and actually swing to hit.
Rey and Luke literally fought with sticks in one scene. I mean they had the chance to use the coolest weapon of all time and they made one scene with sticks, other scene with Hammil stunt not fighting, the throne room scene with generic energy weapons, and the Knights of Ren vs Kylo with more generic blades. What a waste of our time.
What about Finn vs FN-2199 and Finn vs Kylo Ren? Both of those fights had the high stakes and the weight behind each swing.
Finn vs Kylo Ren especially had an emotional weight behind it.
@@windghost2 I agree, Finn facing Kylo Ren out of pure will was the best moment in TFA and I would say my favorite moment in the sequels, it was pathetic the way rian treated him in VIII.
@@ZXPhazze I agree, Finn was supposed to be an intriguing character. "Whoa a possibly force sensitive storm trooper? That's crazy I can't wait to see how he develops when he recovers from his injuries, I'm sure there'll be a small timeskip between movies." and then nope, Rian rejected everything TFA set up for him in order to "subvert expectations". And then when J.J. went back to finish off the trilogy he had to just work with what Rian had done and it's just sad.
The old lightsaber fights show how deadly and quick they are especially in the PT. Then the ST introduced the baseball bat style of fighting.
7:07 Rey kicked like three people with one kick
Mary Sue Powers
to be fair luke also force kicked a guy during episode 6 (his kick clearly doens't connect to one of jabba's guards hence hte invention of the force kick to fix a mistake)
@@revanruler6404 that was one person tho 😂
@@CCLOSPINA the problem is it isn't one small mistake it's a ton of noticeable mistakes also it's a different time we expect better from today's industry
Don’t you know about the force kick? Everyone knows about the force kick we just came up with to make a ridiculous scene make sense..
I remember someone said that the guard jumping in at 4:26 was really endearing cause he was tryna save his friend and it adds a lot of depth to that character lol
Welp you ruined that for me too lol
Why'd you reply to yourself?
@@Helloiamraymond I was keeping my extra comment in the replies, cause I didn't wanna flood the comment section. I was meaning that the video ruined that perspective of mine.
i mean it seems like a really dope scene at my eyes only that is ejecuted like shit, a royal guard that can stop a lightsaber (who is like the strongest and dangerous hand to hand weapon in Star Wars) with is own hands sounds pretty dope
I wanna know how his arms could block the lightsaber but Kylo could still stab the last guy through his helmet. You’d think if they were gonna make one part of the armor lightsaber-resistant they would make all of it resistant. Or at least make the parts of the armor protecting vital organs (like the brain) resistant.
Conspiracy theory: snokes guards are random stormtroopers with no training
Haha
Don’t be so insulting. The Stormtrooper, my man TR8R, who whooped Finn’s butt would defeat everyone in that room.
That would be valid seeing how snoke is not a sith and was just a farce for Sidious to manipulate kylo
The people who wrote the sequel trilogy are random stormtroopers with no training
I’m not trained in fighting but even I know to aim.
I’ve always said that the perfect metaphor for the sequels is Kylo’s helmet in TFA it starts off as a clear imitation but it’s still solid enough to grow into its own identity then TLJ completely shatters any and all plans they may have had to begin with and TROS is forced to pick up the pieces to try and fix it and salvage it but you can clearly see that the damage is already and permanently done
Dude, that's a brilliant metaphor!
Say what you willl about the sequels (I certainly can, they're awful), but Adam Driver carried that whole thing on his surprisingly swole shoulders.
@@benjaminjane93 agreed. As the years go by, Adam Driver's portrayal of Kylo Ren will be recognized as understated genius.
why did they change directors for the last jedi? seems like having the same director for all three movies would have at least made the trilogy more cohesive.
This narrative is garbage. Im sorry. I enjoyed episode 7 the first time round, also, but it’s very clear now that JJ had no idea where to take any of those “mystery boxes.” Rhian is a hack, but he’s not the only one to blame. Even if JJ had all three movies, he was stilling “LOSTing” us
The best lightsaber fight in the sequel trilogy wasn't even a lightsaber fight, it was Finn vs the "Traitor!" trooper
Sad and funny at the same time
Especially if you watch the edited version where the storm trooper blows finn's head off
Disagree. The best fight in the ST is Finn vs Kylo Ren. Why? Because he was fighting him to protect Rey and in doing so, he was finally facing his main fear of The First Order which is Kylo Ren. In doing so he got injured trying to protect her from him which was noble.
The stormtrooper is FN-2199 nicknamed “nines,” Finn’s former friend.
@@CTRaptor I honestly didn't think too much about him when I first saw that scene in theaters 7 years ago. But after I read Before The Awakening by Greg Ruka (REALLY GOOD book on Finn, Rey and Poe's characters; it takes place at least 6 months before the movie. I recommend it.) it became clear to me exactly WHO nines was and it makes sense as too why he's mad at Finn.
It’s really sad seeing my dad a MASSIVE FAN of star wars go from being so excited and non stop talking about Star Wars to just never mentioning it again
It's almost like the people behind disney don't have souls or something..
They killed the passion of a father, I'd hope disney is happy
Your dad sounds like a bitch. The old star wars movies are full of so much camp but this is what made him give up? Im sure it has nothing to do with his sad life that involved raising you
i went into TFA with low expectations and found it enjoyable. had the same low expectations for TLJ based on early impressions.
it was even worse than my mega low expectations could have prepared me for. I still haven't watched Ep 9.
@@phonkydude1618 They've got money. I bet they are. Soulless money hoarders
I feel bad for Adam driver, cos he actually a really good actor and although he probably played the most developed character in the squalls.. It was still an angry baby man with a glow stick.. I kinda feel he got delt a real bad hand bc I think he actually played his part really well. He's also really good in other movie so
Ah yes, *squalls*
Same, the actors are not the problem with the sequels, its the horrible plot
Who ever casted him it was a horrible choice. He's too soft looking for me to take him seriously as a villain.
At the very least they shouldve made more of a distinction between Ben and kylo
@@manz7860 that’s the point though he isn’t a villain he’s just trying to be one and his appearance of looking soft aids in the perspective of him trying to be one when everyone knows he’s not and he is good.
@@cadeclark kylo. The dude who's slaughtered helpless villages and killed his own father.....isn't a bad person because he has a pretty boy face? Smh.
1 Imperial Royal Guard: Literally held off an army of 500 Stormtroopers and like 50 AT-STs by himself in the comics.
8 Praetorian Guards (supposedly even more skilled): Beaten by a dessert hobo with no training and a talentless dark Anakin
On the topic of Rey being a desert hobo, why doesn't she look like one? When we first meet her in TFA, she doesn't look at all malnourished or ragged from her years in the desert. Also she's far too trusting for somebody from a dog-eat-dog planet like Jakku.
god you EU nerds are insufferable
Hey what's that supposed to mean ?
It means that was if you like the Expanded Universe you are annoying
@@molalla2546 Seriously?
Imperial Guard: "who are you?"
Praetorian Guard: "I'm you but worse in nearly every conceivable way"
All guards best to worst:
Shadow Guards
Royal Guards
Senate Guards
Gamorrean Guards
Literally any other type of guard
Praetorian Guards
@@joeyk107 ooof below Gammorean, that's rough... But true
Praetorian guards are my favorite I don't care if they're weaker than the Royal guards they're still better in my opinion
I hate people saying one f****** royal guard could take down all of those guys I mean yes stop freaking overestimating them
I believe if it was a 1v1 the royal guard would win but I feel like the praetorian would at least put up a fight
Not a huge prequel fan, but the first few minutes of Obi-Wan and Anakin’s saber fight are absolutely mind-blowing. Props to Hayden and Ewan.
You should give the movies a rewatch especially if you’re a fan of TCW show. The story is 10,000,000x better than the sequel
i did not liked prequels when they were released...now i thing they were not that bad....actually, they were pretty good...even Jar-Jar....
Lucas had to tell them to slow down with their moves because they were struggling to capture them, they put heart, soul and sweat into them moments and hats off to them. Say what you want about acting, but they knew how important that fight was for everyone so gave it what it deserved
The Prequel fights are just dancing. It doesn't look real at all.
@@chrisking777well they can do things we normal humans can’t because of their speed and precognition. Of course it doesn’t look real.
Jedis concentrate or focus during battle so th- Rey: AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
"I'll try screaming, that's a good trick!"
“NOW THIS.. will hurt your ears..
Almost as if she is feeling the pull to the Darkside
Thinking rather than ahhhhhhhhh a more elegant option for a more civilized age
@@King_of_Calcium what?
Isn't there an interview with the stunt coordinator where he basically says that Ridley was too unathletic for him to incorporate anything advanced into her choreography? Compare that to Ewan and Haden who were essentially in peak physical condition and trained for hours every day for their fights? I bet the stunt coordinator's opinion wasn't even consulted during casting
they should have used a stunt double if she isnt capable of but instead they opt to ruin lightsaber fights.
@@sriganeshthota4918 could just give her a more passive and defensive role in the battle. Hell, even have her thrown around and basically defeated, it would be more realistic to then have an actually trained fighter like kylo save her
Do you have a link for the interview or remember which outlet postet it?
@@weavercs4014 it would, but then u realise that the one who takes care of star wars is a raging retarded feminist who does not understand a the story and turns it in to a huge scale woman power comercial
@@weavercs4014 Nah, Kylo be busy impaling the grounds with his lightsaber, they both can barely win the fight without Plot Armor
Did anyone ever notice this?
Me: *laughs in shadiversity*
Shadiversity absolutely murdered this fight scene. That video was great
Shad is great! Somebody get that man a real lightsaber!!!
@@rasputin15832 but why?
@@rasputin15832 cool, good for you, I strongly disagree, I have no interest in convincing you something you like sucks.
@@RDeathmark Huh, I expected things to go South once someone said they liked TLJ, 'grats for not being as immature as other people seem to be
The throne room fight was really weird for me, because on first watching, especially in the theater, it felt incredible and engrossing, and on later rewatches you realize just how watered down it all feels. They make out the Praetorian Guard to be these combat gods who could go toe to toe with Jedi without issue, but they ended up feeling really hollow in retrospect. They're cooler and more interesting design wise than Palpatine's Royal Guard, but their fight scene is just so rife with issues that all it amounts to is ankle deep spectacle with little else to offer.
That’s because nearly any movie or TV fight scene you start slowing down to search for seams and cracks in the choreography results in you, duh, finding the seams and cracks in the choreography.
You find things like Luke’s fingers peaking out after his hand gets chopped off in ESB. Luke whiffing a kick in ROTJ when fighting on the barge. Darth Maul’s lightsaber switching hands between shots in TPM so that Kenobi doesn’t chop off his own arm when he jumps up at him at the end of the fight. And so on.
RJ could have chopped up the fight into pieces with a million quick cuts to remove all the flaws, but he would rather have the flourish of the long takes even if it came out imperfect.
6:35 He didn't just swing and miss, he literally stopped one of the other guards' weapon. As someone who wants to learn swordfighting, this is depressing.
Edit, nevermind he brought it up.
Lol I know nothing about propee sword fighting but pretty sure they hired expert sword fighters for phantom menace. Yeah these battles literally do seem like *kid battles where you just smack each other's weapons, he's so right.
This fight makes the Power Ranger fight’s look amazing.
Don’t diss the power rangers‼️
Power rangers is actual competent fighters
@@kreigguardsman3355 competent in… making it look like the Rangers were actually striking their targets?
I dont know about you,but i like it (power rangers fight)
Don't you dare insult power rangers
The reason for the Guards' armor's "selective effectiveness" is because apparently they can resist strikes from the side of a lightsaber's blade but not direct stabs.. For some reason
To be fair a stab has more piercing power
@@gnammyhamster9554 Yeah, I'm fairly sure that was the reason they gave for it in some visual dictionary or something.
@@gnammyhamster9554 that doesn’t explain shit. If you try to stab someone in full steel armor with a sword, your sword will just slide off
@@beng4ll967 Yes, but that's metal swords against metal armor. This is a sword made of thousand degree energy against armor made from a fictional material
@@rainbow_vader As far as I know, it's more of an achievement that they had any lightsaber resistant properties, I'm fairly sure that's a highly rare thing for any material to have, let alone an entire suit of armor
7:58 Could you imagine how a fight like this would have looked with peak Vader? Just as they assume combat stance each one of them is forcibly frozen and lifted by their throats as Vader nonchalantly turns around, before closing his fist and letting them all drop to the floor, completely lifeless. Cool lightsaber fights can be awesome, but sometimes a display of unmatched force power can do so much more.
Well, when I watched this, I thought these dudes were the Knights of Ren. Because those guys had literally never been seen on screen, so who else would they be? But no, they're just random dudes and ultimately just there to kill time. Like everything else in this movie.
God, these movies were just made by complete hacks.
@@Swiftbow I love how they mentioned these guys like once or twice and then NEVER did anything with them. Instead we get casino-planet...
George Lucas poured his heart and soul into his movies. The dueling scenes for Star Wars is part of what makes Star Wars so special and for Disney to f*** it up says alot.
i wish we got a george lucas sequel so bad just to see where he went with it and how he concluded the most popular movie franchise in cinema history
@@bliots8369 George Lucas actually had a sequel trilogy planned which would be Luke rebuilding the jedi order, the empire has crumbled, maul controlling crime and Leia struggling to take down maul and his crime which would have been so much better(I suck at explaining so just look it up for a better grasp of what it would be)
@@GuestGaming88 that sounds so cool! I just hate how they brought back Palpatine out of nowhere, essentially disregarding Anakin's sacrifice and the prophecy just to have him be killed by Rey reflecting his own lightning back at him... like how is that more effective than being thrown down a reactor core and exploding?
@@bliots8369 ikr
Bro the last lightsaber battle in episode 2 is awful what are you talking about
Rey: has a hard time fighting snokes twirling elite guards
yoda: just destroys palpatines royal guards instantly with the force
yoda: couldn't kill palpatine
Rey: kills palpatine with his own lightning
*WHAT*
Mace could have done that
It’s the bull shit Mary sue
Exactly. Palpatine got cocky. Rey did nothing but reflect it.
Leo no but he did reflect his lightning longer then Rey and then he was kinda just like meh I won’t die no more I’m weak anakin help
@Leo no he didn't let him win its mace's lightsaber combat form that allows him to reflect dark side abilities back onto the user
After having watched Shadiversity's take on both the throne room scene and the Mustafar fight, it's SOOO clear that the fight from Episode 8 was amazingly STUPID.
Shad's probably an expert when it comes to sword fighting, and he saw SOOO many flaws with the Throne Room Fight, while getting blown away by how well done the Mustafar fight was choreographed. And seeing this just tells me the same thing.
Sure, the choreographer they used for Episode 8 might have been good at his job and all, but they simply did not have the time.
Episode 8 was literally put together in a single year because of Bob Iger. And Rian Johnson, who technically is a good director, does not seem to play well with others, and wanted SOOO badly to write SOME form of end to HIS story, that he wrote Star Wars into a corner.
Contrasting this is Episode 3. It was Directed by George Lucas himself, who made sure the story would fit well into the Original trilogy, and follow the rules of Star Wars etc. Making us love characters such as Obi-Wan and Palpatine even more than we already did. And that movie was made over several years.
The results are clear as crystal. Making a big block buster movie in a single year is a bad idea. YOU HEAR ME, BOB IGER?!? IT'S A BAD IDEA!!!
hello there. nice to see another shad fan on the web! :D
@@xblgamerftw Hey, Shad's fun to look at with his castle breakdowns and pop-culture weapon analysises. ^^
There was an expert in I believe sword fighting on IGN and he watched the sequel fights and said the episode 8 fight looked cool and some of the fighting was well done. People have different opinions, every expert can have difference of opinion because really all this is is people waving a laser sword around. Yes the prequels had training that was intense, the OT had heavy hilts according to mark and OT George wanted a different fighting style, the sequels couldn’t fight like Jedi in the PT because that’s unrealistic because only Luke could teach them combat and he didn’t fight like prequel Jedi. The sequels should’ve fleshed the story out more and taken more time. The fights aren’t nearly as bad as people make it seem, especially when they slow down the fight for some reason to over analyze one split second thing no one would notice otherwise unless you slowed the movie down and looked for mistakes
I don't think it was because of Iger that the movie was filmed in one year.
It was actually because Rian was just done with it in one year. That's certainly possible, considering he did not rewrite anything in his initial script.
Yes, this entire movie is based on Rian's first draft. Nothing was changed.
@@thorodinson1933 You're really dumb, if you truly think that the ign dude was being honest
The comparison to little kids intentionally hitting the lightsaber is honestly so accurate.
Its almost like one character is a rage filled (*checks notes*) child in a mans body and the other is completely new to lightsaber combat and only used a long baton (a swinging weapon) as her main defense before.
Crazy what just 2 seconds of plot analysis does, but i get thats too complicated for people with your brain capacity.
@Ughstopped That literally only proves the exact opposite. Why would they hold back and aim for where no one even is anymore if they were rage filled or inexperienced? It's not like they were just missing, they were actively making really strange decisions that don't make sense *especially* considering the rage.
Maybe you should do another couple of seconds of thinking before calling someone else stupid. Or has Disney's dick gone so far down your throat you stopped thinking properly? How do their boots taste?
@@Ughstopped Then why did snokes highly trained guard lose to them? If you think about the production as a whole and not the plot itself you understand why it sucks
@@Ughstopped Explaining why it's bad doesn't make it good. If it was intentionally made bad, that doesn't make it good either. it just means it is bad by design and doesn't change the fact that it is bad either way.
Also, it doesn't explain why the guard is so terrible. They are supposed to be the best of the best, yet most mistakes come from them. And even then, if you grab a random person, even if you grab a 50 year old person that has never done anything physical their entire life. You give him a lightsaber and he has to fight for his life against that guard... I guarantee you that even this random person, would know they have to attack the actual person and not their weapons. Even the worst of the worst, would know not to attack the weapons. So even if I grant you everything, you are still wrong.
this scene in a nutshell: "BEYBLADE BEYBLADE LET IT RIP"
Let's fight, an epic battle
good point, it should just be a beyblade battle
Reyblade Reyblade!
@@Ethanphetamine
No No, hes got a point
@@Ethanphetamine you are right
Also, wouldn’t the saber have to start behind Snoke when its turned on and then be pulled in front for his whole body to come clean off? There’s no way the saber is the exact thickness of Snokes body and if it started behind him, he would’ve heard it turn on before looking so shocked he’s been stabbed
What?
@@ultrabigfella If you watch the part in the movie where Snoke gets cut in half - When the lightsaber is turned on it is in Snokes hand in front of him, for him to have been cut in half the lightsaber would have had to start behind him and be pulled forward unless the lightsaber is the perfect width of Snokes body and somehow was turned on directly in the middle... surely Snoke would have noticed the lightsaber turn on behind him on the arm rest and got off his seat before it got moved forward to cut him in half
@@johnamos7082 I mean, if at least like 50 percent of his body was cut the rest would crumple giving the illusion of it cutting him in half.
I’ve been wondering about that since I watched it, the saber is at most around the middle of snokes body, nowhere near the back. I get it was a cool shot but there was no reason he should’ve been cut in half.
@@ultrabigfella He is literally split into two, our bodies aren’t like tree branches they don’t just snap off when a certain percentage of it is cut through, skin is more elastic-like for that 😂
6:34 Daisy Ridley missed her cue, she was supposed to be already ducking and the guy didn't wanna whack her upside the head.
And they said...this actors actresses are NOT bad...
@@noob-mn1wd mistakes can happen
More shit is that they didn't redo it when someone fuckes up a bit
Sheesh, THAT is the worst one. My god… there was 0 Quality Control for these movies 😂
A stormtrooper noticed this... and they miss everything ... (heh)
WHY DIDN'T THEY DO ANOTHER TAKE!?
This fight legitimately makes me mad.
It's an absolute disgrace to Star Wars and whoever greenlighted it has a gigantic lack of respect for the franchise.
Absolutely unacceptable and disgusting.
Jeez alright then
agreed
Genuinely get help. If you have this poor of a life perspective (nevermind just being wrong about the scene), you need professional help.
But if you're watching content like this, you're probably well beyond any actual help.
@@yoshiki7757Nah. This fight scene was an insult not only to Star Wars fans but even average movie goers. You being totally fine with absolute shit is not the problem of other commenters. 🤷♂️
@@somerandomdude8399 jesus christ I can't imagine being capable of writing out something so pathetic.
Just how small is your penis?
I still to this day believe high ground is the most epic battle yet
Fax
Yeah 😊
Idk Yoda verses dooku is pretty good
Idk Yoda v dooku was pretty great lol
Find someone who doesn't, now that'd be a surprise
Disney: you've heard of stormtroopers, but have you heard of *melee stormtroopers* ?
I would love to talk to one of the vfx people that worked on this scene. Even on the vfx there is stuff wrong like for example: In 7:54 Kylos arm is behind his body, but the lightsaber blade is in front of him. It's hilarious, but there is no way stuff like that gets missed in post, so they probably thought: He needs to have some sort of cover while he gets attacked. "Lets put the blade in front of him even though it makes zero sense. Noone will notice" xD
Unfortunately it did in this movie
I’ve watched that clip several times now, he is point long his blade in front of his body. His arm being at his side would not interfere with him doing this. I don’t understand what the complaint is here.
The blade looks like he is pointing it in front of his body. In fact he is holding the prop at his side as well. You can see that in the way his hand holds the saber and also considering, that if this was correct he should have cut his leg off.
Oh my god really. The amount of VFX issues there are in the prequels is laughable. But you would never mention that would you?
Its a cool optical illusion but you can tell he has it in a reverse grip to begin with
Tbh prequel duels had tons of intentional misses and aiming for the blade, but yeah, they were done in good taste and never were this kind of a dogshit mess.
Theres intentional missing then theres actors missing there timing forcing others to intentionally miss
Also a LOT of the techniques in the prequels are actually practical Shadaversity breaksdown Anakin vs Obi-Wan and goes into detail plus yknow there was the lightsaber fighting techniques. And the fights are so fast and well done you cant even tell
@@maxmcvey8425 he broke down this fight as well and basically went into much more detail though this video said exactly what he said but 5x quicker
Lightsaber fighting has actual forms. For example Obi-Wan and Anakin both standing each other spinning their blades, purposefully missing each other was lightsaber form combat looking for openings.
@Jon Yeah the fight is wonky but that can be attributed to Vader and Obi-Wan being old men who can't do flips and being the first movie in the saga. TLJ has no excuse since they've had 40 years to improve the duels. Instead, we get the worst aspects of the originals and the prequels.
Edit: Also, your comment is literally whataboutism, a logical fallacy.
I knew this fight scene had complete fuck ups and mistakes that were missed but by god I didn’t know it was this bad
8:40
"Kylo goes from freezing a blaster bolt in midair to struggling against the 3 blind mice "
🤣🤣🤣🤣
What happened is Rey is so powerful in the force that she subconsciously used her Jedi mind tricks to trick the guards into spinning pointlessly
Imagine if they retcon this, some random unknown jedi in the background was actually toying with the guards while they were fighting without them knowing
It wasn't a random jedi, it was Darth Jar Jar
Or retcon it, to be Lukes doing...
Visually, very cool 10/10, detail wise however 0/10 it’s the worst.
exactly.
The colors, effects and music are great, but thats the only good things that can be said about this scene.
@@FerunaLutelou I think the only really big problem is the terrible, plot-armor-infused choreography. But that one problem ends up making the entire scene look laughable once you are aware of it.
That's basically the only thing that the sequels have, amazing visuals and cinematography
Just like the Darth Maul fight in Ep. I
The fight scene was the only part of the movie that I liked, then I decided to rewatch the scene while focusing on each character... I will never be able to unsee that monstrosity
That idea of Kylo freezing the guards in place while he cuts through them with his blade is such a badass thought
Throne Scene: **Flopped**
Luke’s Hallway Scene: *So anyways…I started shitting on the sequels*
It has kinda the same mistakes. Djarin against the death droids and against Esposito's character are bad choreographed battles too.
It seems they never learn.
Well, TCW season 7 (and the few battles Rebels had) did really well.
@@r.c.c.10 I didn't mind that as much, because the wild swinging Gideon used was logical for his character, he's a Moff not a Sith and is using raw aggression to compensate for a lack of skill.
That last episode is shit anyways. Only good part was Luke taking the kid away so the abysmal show would finally come to an end.
I will give it one thing though.
The greatest laugh I've ever had was when Boba put that armor on and it only reached like halfway over his gut.
Even the actor couldn't give a crap to get in shape.
@@aytony4090 Right.
@@aytony4090
Did anyone ask?
Episode II Count Dooku V Obi-Wan & Anakin was a really cool fight--my favorite part was when Anakin takes Kenobi's saber for a little two-handed action. Wish that had lasted longer
Way too short. The best part of the sequence was the Yoda fight but even that was short.
@@mitocorleone4845 indeed! God bless ya
That fight looked goofy as hell! It was just twirling their sabers around in the dark!
@@amethystglare nah man I have just recently seen an analysis by a professional sword fighter and expert and he actually claimed that the fight and also this around swinging is pretty realistic.
Yess i loved that fight
Anakin vs Obi-Wan is the best duel.
It was too long and lacked tension since we already knew Obi-Wan won.
@@stefanlaskowski6660 that’s what made it prefect mostly all the battles only last like 3 minutes this lasted almost 10
@@stefanlaskowski6660 besides it switching to yoda and papltine then back to anakin and obi wan was just so good
Luke vs vader in rotj is the best imo
@@joeyk107 Emotionally? Maybe.
What I've noticed is that modern Star Wars fights look more like the blades are both going to the same point to meet one another, not to block or attack, but to just meet there.
9:33 not only the guard drops his weapon, the other 2 guys leave Kilo and go away rather than strike a clear blow while kylo kills the guard
Supposedly, the stuntmen kept having to compensate for missed cues and missed timings, so they kept twirling and others to try keep time with cues that were hit. I believe one of the Stuntmen react with the Corridor Crew covers this.
What the fuck?
Literally full of errors and Rian was just like "Yeah, we'll keep that one. It's not like this is a franchise known for its massive, fiercely loyal, and detail-obsessesed fanbase. Nobody will notice."
@@demi-femme4821 I'm pretty sure Johnson is on record saying that he worked hard on and was proud of this fight scene.
Yeah the whole " it took them 25 takes so it should be perfect" shows how little he knows about fight choreography, 25 takes is less than à day of shooting iirc Jackie chan had simpler scènes with fewer actors and better trained main actors and it still took months to do one fight scene. 25 takes for such à complex fight might as well be one take
@@revanruler6404 Cut together from 25 takes as we can see in what made it to the screen
@@revanruler6404 yup The actors in the first matrix all trained for like half a year to get their choreography and strength good enough for the action and did months of takes and reshoots. all the main actors where close to 40 when they did this and they nailed it . Rian just did not care to make it good.
I've trained in sword-fighting (particularly German fencing) and TLJ throne room fight is just laughable to me. The characters treat their lightsabers (which are laser-SWORDS) like clubs and just swing them around while hoping that they hit something. People like to simplify sword-fighting but there's actually a lot of stances and footwork involved.
I've heard that Luke's flurry of swings at the end of RotJ is actually based on German Longswordsmanship, even using a key stance as he's pushing up on Vader. Is there any truth to this?
@@dangerdash4393 It's been awhile since I last saw RotJ but I do recall seeing Luke using what is known as "Vom Tach" ("from the roof") and "Ochs" ("ox"), both of which are stances/attacks in German fencing.
@@shadowking9739 not to mention that in light saber combat the best way to use a light ehem SABER is exactly like a SABER. There’s no point in using heavy strikes really as it’s not really damaging the blades effectiveness nor is it making the cut on the opponent more effective. If you drop a saber on top of someone’s head it’ll go right through them with no effort whatsoever. Where as a normal blade, taking a light hit to the knuckles isn’t the end of the world but certainly painful, in light saber combat that’s the loss of your fingers.
@@stephanlasley5781 Excellent points!
And the handling is largely different given all the weight of a lightsaber is just the handle and yet they swing them like heavy bats.
Now you’re just nitpicking. Rey clearly deleted that guard’s weapon with the Force
She probably sent it somewhere else😅 🤷♀️
Normal Jedi:using the force and different lightsaber forms
Rey and Ben Swolo: Swing Swong back and forth like a Ping Pong
Yoda: there are 7 forms of lightsaber combat
Rey: bottom of ninth, down 3, full count here’s the pitch SWING
Yoda-900 years old and grand master of the Jedi at peak
Rey- JUST started
@@thorodinson1933 I did better with a stick bro
@@thorodinson1933 Also Rey: Takes down trained dark Jedi DAY ONE.
Takes down trained Jedi killers a few days later.
@@dangerdash4393 technically speaking chewie took kylo down. If Chewie doesn’t shoot kylo, kylo isn’t injured and if kylo isn’t injured Rey gets taken out. Not killed because he wanted her and so did snoke.
And are you talking about the guard fight? They’re background characters going against the main characters do you really think they’re going to win? I mean cmon
@@thorodinson1933 Ren's injury doesn't really hold up though, he takes Finn down with ease, pretty much bored throughout most of the fight. It's the closest he's ever gotten to being like Vader. And he never really loses stamina in dealing with either his or Rey. It's like midway through the fight with Rey, they remember that he's supposed to be seriously injured and struggling to hold himself together.
I expected there to be an actual fight. These guys are a far cry from what Ren says about them in the novelization. These guys are supposed to be the biggest threat, and they're mowed down so easily by an unstable dark Jedi and a wannabe baseball player.
When I first saw this scene, I was too busy thinking "why did they kill off Snoke?", than to pay attention to this fight.
I was mad Snoke was killed off so early in TLJ. I wanted to know more about him and see what would happen with him in Episode 9. Guess we’ll never know....
@@windghost2 we do know, he was a failed clone of palps that palps used to rule the first order while he recovered in another clone body.
@@citizenvulpes4562 Sorry should've clarified. I was mad that he was killed off in TLJ and then I got even angrier when it was revealed that he was a clone of Palps in TROS.
Like there were books talking about how powerful and crazy evil this dude was for like 2 years before episode 8, then he's killed in TLJ and THEN he's a damn clone of DJ Palpy!
Like I wanted him to be a new character someone we didn't know and someone we would learn more about in the next two movies, I was honestly disappointed that we never got that.
@@windghost2 actually it's worse than that. There's apparently a new comic in which it's heavily implied that Snoke is a clone made from Luke's hand, and that's the least worse reveal in the comic.
@@markwilson4686 Are you serious? What the hell?! That’s terrible!
9:20 it’s forbidden to turn your lightsaber off and back on again during a fight to get an advantage on your enemy.
This is a know thing between both Jedi and Sith. The Jedi see it as unsportsmanlike. And the sith see it as being week.
They probably don’t even know that though
I saw a Tiktok about that a few weeks ago, but I am also a complete normie lol
Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh not quite. It gets mentioned in the Jedi Path book, which is deemed canon as far as I'm aware
@@notevenhuman8141 👎
Who the fuck cares about being “sportsmanlike” when your opponent is trying to kill you?
@@Goremejy people with pride obviously, some people would rather die than break their personal codes
9:20 That move is criminally neglected in all of Star Wars (except for some Legends stuff I think). The ability to make your blade disappear and reappear is such a unique mechanic but because it has no equivalent in the real world, nobody seems to know how to implement it in a fictional fight. And that's a shame. So many cool possibilities!
imagine the awkwardness when two fighters clash, then get the idea to deactivate the lightsaber at the exact same time
It'd be way too OP and both the Jedi and Sith regard it as Un sportsman-like.
@@No.1GodzillaGlazer not only that but if you think about it realistically it might not be as good of a strategy as most people think it is. I mean when you turn it off, sure you pass their blade, but for that split second you lose ALL defense AND offense, you basically just completely disarm yourself. Anyone with any amount of reaction time would for sure be able to take advantage of that.
I believe the Sith rejected this move due to it showing weakness, and the Jedi did the same due to the unethical nature of it.
However, I don’t believe that this scenario would fit the quota. I believe it was utilizing that move to create a finisher, eg facing the saber hilt towards an opponent and activating it..
That's a thing in the universe, but both jedi and sith rarely ever use it because of its controversial and unethical nature. It's seen as a dirty move
*Rey used Block*
_Guard uses spiny stab_
It's highly ineffective!
*Rey uses double attack*
_Guard uses spiny slash_
He hit his own friend!
_Rey stabs the floor_
*Guard has spun away*
You won! 30xp
Shadversity: You are strong and wise, Michael, and I am very proud of you.
don't forget Darth mauler the wise
7:12 i was brushing my teeth and spit out the toothpaste all over the place from laughing thank you
During that throneroom fight that guy you focused on was supposed to swing while Rey was supposed to duck. However, Daisy Ridley apparently/allegedly forgot to duck until a few seconds later so he had to raise his weapon so as not to hit her. However, instead of Daisy forgetting to duck it could also be that the red guard was ahead of the scene by 2s and was too early to strike so he had to swing higher and miss. You can clearly see Rey ducking to avoid a weapon that's not there. She was supposed to duck that swing.
But yeah, I blame the director and stunt coordinator. The director should have said "CUT!" and reset the fight while the stunt coordinator should have instructed the actors on proper timing again.
Another issue with the red guy who had those two knives. They just edited the other knife out in post because otherwise he would have been in the perfect spot to just stab Rey in the back.
See, the problem was they wanted to do as much of the fight with as few cuts as possible. That's damn hard because it requires everyone to be spot on for extended periods of time. Sure, they could have chopped and changed, used stunt doubles and all the rest. But this way you get to see faces, the audience relates to the characters more and the scene should have more impact. Sure, if you want to slow it down to two frames per second you'll get to see all the little mistakes, like the mistimed attack you mention, but at normal speed most people will see what you want them to see.
@@katrinapaton5283 but, come on, the out-edited knife is a no-go, thats ridiculous!
@@deathsinger1192 Yea ok, hard to argye with that.
@@katrinapaton5283 everyone I've talked to said this fight scene sucked. You won't notice EVERY mistake at normal speed...but it's almost impossible to miss all of them, and then BOOM you're out of the scene. The frame by frame analysis isn't where the scene falls apart...it's just necessary to see exactly WHY it falls apart.
“It’s almost as if the director told them how to do it, and the stuntmen all had to go along with it”
Yeah that’s probably exactly what happened. None of this is the fault of the actors, stuntmen, or coordinator. You have to do what the director says and when you’re working with the Disney Overlords, you are not allowed to complain or argue. Don’t act like this happened because the stunt coordinator dropped the ball, the actors were bad, or the stuntmen didn’t know what they were doing.
If you want a better look at this fight from an actual stuntman, I recommend watching Corridor Crew’s video on this fight scene featuring Eric Linden. They have a whole series where they sit down with stuntmen and stuntwomen and review movie stunts, including the throne room scene, and it’s very informative. The specific video I’m talking about is the first one in their playlist so it’s easy to find. They also discuss the same fight scene from Mission Impossible mentioned in this video
This fight scene was a pretty damn good idea, and those guards look sick as hell, but it was executed horribly, rey kicks 3 people somehow, the guards spin around for no reason, the guards completely miss all their swings, and a weapon is literally edited out, and I guess rain forgot that Rey and Kylo can use the force because they don't use it once in this fight scene
Maybe she force kicked three of them at the same time like the excuse they gave Luke when there was an error in his fight
@@thorodinson1933 they are both issues, a force kick is a dumb excuse for both of them
@@dapoox2622 a force kick is just dumb in general lmao
@@thorodinson1933 of course it is, doesn't make much sense
@@dapoox2622 but I do believe that with Star Wars you have to let go of logic sometimes if you focus too much on certain things it can kinda ruin something that otherwise is pretty good imo
I love how at 1:18 they made Maul actually have to look to see where he's throwing the debris to open the door. Not only does it make the action look more visceral, it implies a limitation to the force. Nowadays they'd never have a Jedi/Sith look to see where they're chucking stuff, they'd just wave their hand and it would hone right in on the target. It really gives a sense of weight and realism to the fight that nu-directors just don't have the talent to conceive of and implement.
The biggest problem with this fight is everyone is aiming to for their opponents weapon instead of striking to kill and at the worst of times they aim above their opponent ... ive seen fan films with better choreography ryan vs dorkman 2 ring a bell
Speaking of which, this film totally stole the lightsaber tug-of-war from the first RvD.
@foxhoundslug A hint, they aren't, don't compare the PM fights with this crap.
Bruh at the start the guards in the back are just standing in their place doing stupid flips and spins. That's a level of retardedness I thought we'd never see in this franchise.
8:08
When you go to school but you realize you're homework isn't done.
7:03 Everybody runs away from Rey...wtf🤣
xDDD
You can’t fight Rey Sue
If they hurt her, the whole feminist will angry 😡😡
What could have been a nice alteration in my opinion, that in the scene with Prunehead, that Ben actually killed Rey, which then would set up Bens questioning of his own actions, which by the final film would have resolved in him trying to establish communication with the rebels in ways of helping them taking out Prunehead, which then would become the Rise of "Skywalker"ish. Maybe... It is just an idea I got.
Holy-- that would have been amazing! It would seriously throw the audience off and legitimately throw the Resistance's fate into question instead of the usual mentality of "bad guy winning but good guy have plot armour".
Even better point: Rey can't come back as a Force Ghost at that point because Luke never taught her! Would Finn take up the mantle? Would Kylo regret his actions? Would Finn even use the Force, or just a lightsaber and blaster? That would be really interesting if Finn was never a Force user, but just a good fighter and can outsmart Kylo...
when i saw this fight was coming, i thought Kylo would always be the one with the upper hand and helping Rey, since those are highly trained guards and more trained than Rey, and i thought "hope Kylo helps her, she's out matched"
and then, well, she just kills them all no problem
In ROTJ, Han tapping the scout trooper on the shoulder who said "Hey!" then followed him into an ambush was a better fight scene than this.
I’m really surprised that Adam hasn’t developed scoliosis considering he literally carried the whole f**king trilogy on his back.
But for real though. The sequel trilogy of Star Wars might be one of the worst trilogies I’ve ever seen. The Force Awakens was decent, I guess, and The Rise of Skywalker personally didn’t want to make me sever my own eyeballs out and set them on fire after dousing them in acid (and I know this is a very unpopular opinion but please do not hate me) but The Last Jedi was just HORRIBLE. Like, I’ve watched all the other eight episodes in their entirety, but I turned this one off after twenty minutes. I’ve watched certain clips online, and Adam is the only thing about the sequel trilogy that I can confidently point to and say that I like, even if Kylo is essentially a Darth Vader / Anakin Skywalker wannabe. Speaking of the Skywalkers, the saddest part about the whole thing is someone actually posted a ten minute compilation of Mark Hamill bashing the sequel movies, and every single one of his criticisms were completely accurate. I have absurdly low standards, which is why I actually prefer the prequels over the original movies (though I think my opinion that Revenge of The Sith is the G.O.A.T of the entire franchise is a pretty popular one) but come on. The Last Jedi is the literary equivalent of spending your entire efforts on the cover art and having the rest be utter garbage.
Adam Driver god
The last Jedi sucks
Yes! I totally agree!
People say TFA was just A New Hope again, but TLJ was also just Empire again. Rey goes to train with a mentor on a secluded planet since her old one just died (Han), Rebels are being chased across the galaxy by the Empire, Rebels attempt to go to a prosperous city for help and get betrayed, Rey leaves training early to save her friends only to fail, and the Rebels get chased by walkers on a white planet and escape in the Falcon. I guess they took Luke dying randomly from Jedi, and the throne room scene was just Vader killing the emperor essentially. They just mixed up moments we've already seen in the most convoluted way possible and without any of the needed character building.
John Boyega got fucking robbed and he knows it. Such a cool concept for a character played by a guy who has made it abundantly clear how much he loves Star Wars, and TLJ destroyed all of his potential by relegating him to such an uninteresting side plot and robbing him of his emotional climax. Such a shame. I really feel bad for him because not only does he have the balls to criticize the sequels after acting in them, but he also criticized his role in them and how he was treated. There’s a great interview with him that only made me respect him more.
Dude I completely lost it with your description of those plastic light saber toys. “ those things hurt” they did Man, they sure did! lol 😆
*THANK YOU!!*
I've seen so many people say this was the best Lightsaber battle in the history of Star Wars. In a world where Anakin vs Obi-wan in ROTS exists, how can anyone with even a decent amount of vision and some intelligence even say that?
Nowadays, flashier and “spectacle” fights are way more appreciated and popular than skillful and “realistic” fights. Like you said, This One V.S Basically the entire prequel trilogy. Spectacle VS Realism/Skill
@@game-enjoyer13 lmao calling lightsaber fights realistic, especially from the prequels, is so stupid that it's hilarious.
@@That0neGuySaid Realistic in the sense that you can actually buy it being a real form. The Prequels borrow heavily from Chinese swordsmanship.
Anyone that had the audacity to say this is not a true Star Wars fan hands down.
LOL, they were dancing and swinging like pirates while floating around on lava….ROTS duel was cringy as hell with god awful dialogue.
Best lightsaber duel list.
Vader Luke 1
Vader Luke 2
Vader Kenobi - Eps 6 of Kenobi
Maul v Kenobi
Maul v Kenobi v Qui Gon
The throne room scene could have been soo much better if they employed force powers more for crowd control, and thinning out the enemies numbers quickly.
This is incredible: everytimeI watch this scene (or I watch an anlysis of it) I discover more mistakes. And it's the same for the whole movie! WTF, how anyone can say this movie is better than any prequel movie, let alone being an actual good movie?!
There are some who claim it as either the best or second best Star Wars film.
@@philipsheppard4815 I know...
They can like this movie but they have to admit this isn't a good movie
I just dump it in the same pile as the prequels, they're all shit, no need to compete which shit is bigger.
In my opinion the Ot is the best, then comes the prequels and then this trilogy
I like equally OT and prequels
When Kylo stabs the ground for no reason at 0:37
When you pay more attention to a toddler then an actual lightsaber fight: 3:11
Im thinking, huh her light saber is raised a bit high, maybe if kylo just went lower with his strike, he can just stab her and be done
@@saihiko9967 No no no, Lucasfilm can't allow their "Strong female character" to be killed by a "man" Kylo MUST fight like an idiot.
Honestly the only thing I really love from the sequels is Kylo. I think he's awesome, even though he's pretty much just a Vader wannabe.
Could have been so much more with the older script. Even tho I don't like the Plot of the First Order and the Resistance in general, the original Plot they had planed for the sequel trilogy could have saved it
He's not even good lmao. Especially when they show his stupid punchable face. Get your helmet back on dummy.
He looks like some gamer with anger issues, not some high ranking powerful sith lord
How in the world after TFA is he anything like a Vader wannabe
@@manz7860 LMAO, I am fine with his face but I just think that he should put on the mask in fight scenes like the ship because the mask looks scary and powerful.
The last Jedi, such a cool name such a shitty movie.. it was literally the end. I was so disappointed and I’m semi easy to please. I loved the prequels, phantom menace and return of the sith were awesome.
Same. The Phantom menace had bad things, but its still 100 times better than any of these 3 movies. And Revenge of the Sith is in my opinon epic
If you loved phantom menace then you are very easy to please
The Phantom Menace is secretly brilliant. 😉
@@thorodinson1933 it’s a lot better than Aotc tho
The name was literally click bait.
I can't believe that he expected her to take the first day learning the "training rock" scene but she "picked it up quick" she was fr just moving it back and forth
The guards are even fighting you can see 2 of them hitting each others lightsabers.
It was the worst fight, it was the best fight, it was a funny fight wrapped in one. To be honest they should have just let Kylo Ren have the floor because he was doing more work than Rey!
TheColorOfCaramel how was it the best in terms of quality it sucks
I don't think it was a funny fight either.Imo,this fight is disgraceful.
@@quicklyform5162 ....who said *REY* was trashing them more than Kylo????
@@quicklyform5162 ...she was doing ok in the beginning, but looked like she ran out of steam at the end and for the record I'm not putting Rey down, I'm just sayin' that training we hoped would happened with Luke, could have come in handy at the end.
Remember when he took three while Rey took 5
Plus the magician
The guy who throws his weapon away to get stabbed is like the most egregious thing ever.
"I'm the worst Lightsaber fight in Star Wars."
The Golak Bandits: "Hold my beer."
Average fan: The lightsaber duels in the Sequels were amazing! The FX looks really good!
Average Chad: Prequels. ‘Nuff said
"The FX looks really good" And THAT is why most Star Wars fans hate it. It's literally all about special effects. The minute you actually look at the fight as a fight, it all goes to dogshit.
The Throne Room Fight Is Worse Than A Power Ranger Fight.
Davi Fagundes any power Ranger fight is better than the throne room fight
Power Rangers fights at least are more exciting
And you’re assuming power Ranger fights are bad...
I'll take a Power Ranger fight anyday over this garbage of a supposed fight.
Michael jay: I mean, what is he aming for.
Me: the fly interupting
If I had to describe the entire sequel trilogy in one word it would be
Meh
No. It’d be “Bleh”
@Benjamin Hager It wasn’t alright at all.
The prequels got better in time, but these movies are like some b rated sci fi movies with really really high budgets, expensive garbage.
@@matthewsmorr1 Still having better story than the sequels.
@@diganmelaraxd6981 Guys it's like how Zack approached Superman and Batman for his films, deconstructing them. That's the same thing Rian did. And why are you still saying its a bad film since they made Luke a coward?
I can't see any scene with an imperial guard without, "Hey, Crayola!" going through my head.
Thanks Adult Swim!
Since these movies are considered cannon (unfortunately) why not have it so Ray gets stabbed in the back there and goes down, then Kylo can use the dark side of the force with his anger and force choke everyone. At least then the Mary Sue gets hurt, force heal is shown, Kylo gets some character development and Kylo gets to become a little bit of a Darth Vader feel as he chokes everyone or maybe crushes the guards in their armour.
God I wish these movies weren't made.
Just kill off Rey and revive the “Finn’s Force Sensitive” idea. Such an awful character does not have a reason to exist.
@@kone7549 better idea make it all non canon and make legends into canon again. Everybody wins!
Who here’s seen Scene 38 Reimagined? Disney keep saying it’s not canon, even though it has no bearing on the events and was just made to improve the dreary saber fight in A New Hope (still a masterpiece of a movie though).
They are not canon.
The prequel fights were amazing.
Like watching martial artists fight.
The sequels are like watching kinder gardeners fight.
What about Finn vs FN-2199 and Finn vs Kylo Ren? Those two fights are the ONLY good ones in the Sequel trilogy.
More like kinder garteners vs psycopathic adults
*Kindergarteners
@@creeperYT9824 *Kindergarteners
To be fair, the prequels LITERALLY had martial artists hired or the actors practiced like, hundreds of times to get the moves right.
Martial Arts practitioners always have one common rule: Never give your back to the enemy. Spins and twirls are not effective in combat at all.
Tell that to the prequel Jedi
At least the choreography can mask some of the unnecessary moves since they were moving very fast. Shadiversity has a breakdown of the final fight in ROTS highly recommended.
@@thorodinson1933 Ye mate, if u saw the naboo battle (Darth Maul vs Obi and Qui-gon) u would notice the same errors. jedis spin a lot and nobody never had a problem with that before, but anything that comes from The Last Jedi is garbage for those who hated the movie, even the best scenes like this
@@sparkz2999 These are Jedi and Sith, masters of the force, that can sense their opponent's next move and use misdirection to get an opening. TLJ is literally regular humans with no speed buff slowly turning around like they're Cervantes.
@@dangerdash4393 Misdirection to get a opening doesn't equal spinning like a retard m8, if us humans without the force know that spinning doesn't do anything imagine master of the force
The funny thing about the Holdo maneuver is it's insanely reckless. Thanks to the High Republic books we know what happens to ships destroyed in hyperspace. If any of her ship made it I to hyperspace proper then bits of it will be re-emerging in a swath at near light speeds. A metal strut glancing the edge of a planet wiped out a mega city.
The real throne room scene was when luke fought vader as palpatine watched with amusement
Rey is too OP, she beats Kylo in Force Awakens, 1 day later she beats Red Guards who protect snoke, she fights Kylo in ROS , and kills him, she kills palpatine with her force power, overall score: Mary Sue
Pixels it’s months later and Kylo was winning the fight on the Death Star. He was distracted because lea was calling to him. Look at the scene you idiot
@@G-H-Productions11 no its not stop lying, God you are a idiot lol LF admitted TLJ takes place 24 hours after TFA get over yourself and keep waiting for every little tid bit of LF retcon that theyve doing trying to stream line the runny bubbly shit of a trilogy no ones buying it anymore. maREY Sue maREY Sue get triggered
CynicallyObnoxious this is why I hate Star Wars fans. You seem like the one who’s triggered. I don’t care. Also, I’m right about the second part. Your the real idiot if your that upset over a movie. Get a life
@@G-H-Productions11 How Dare You!
Matt Pando what?
The major issue here seems to be too many enemies. Having so many fighters is super hard to coordinate realistically.
They could have easily solved this with just less fighters or even better have Rey and Kylo use force powers to keep most of them at a distance.
Or maybe a cool hybrid combination of some of the guards having ranged weapons and we see the first melee and ranged weapon lightsaber fight.
My best guess for 6:30 is that Daisy was supposed to move to block that hit, but missed her cue, and the dude had an “oh sh*t” moment and quickly corrected to not hit her