worse! he bought it just to make sure it did suck as he already knew. so he contributed to TLJ's profits like 5 times in a theater and then a bluray giving them the idea that somebody loved the movie and they need to make ep 9 just like ep 8. Bastards tricked me in the theater and I couldn't get my money back. not gonna trick me a 2nd time with the same movie ☺
Pretty much how i feel. The jedi and sith are dead and star wars with it. Rey, leia and kylo can be force attuned all they want but the jedi (luke) and sith (snoke) are dead.
Also, Disney is completely screwing up the tempo of a trilogy: 2015 Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens 2016 Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (Episode 3.95?) 2017 Star Wars: Episode VIII - The Last Jedi 2018 Solo: A Star Wars Story (10 years prior to Rogue One) 2019 Star Wars: Episode IX -
It really doesnt even tho *TOTALLY NOT HOTH AND ELEMENTS OF EP5 AND 6 ARE THROWN IN* it just feels odd as a stand alone story it probably would have looked better but NOW these morons can't bank on nostalgia on the generational fans getting baited in the first week to prop up numbers. As we saw the *NEW* fans cant keep it the money train going
The prequels were boring, although you would cry in ep 3 if you watched tcw. The last jedi was insulting and there is nothing you can do to fix it. The very direction of the movie sucked from the start.
sikid4000 the clone wars is awesome! There's some crappy episodes like when jar jar is the main focus but I just skip those. Anakin ended up being my favorite character
The prequels?😂😂😂 To get the bad taste out of my mouth I watched Rogue one then the original trilogy. I stop my star wars marathon at ROTJ. I'm going to ignore the new trilogy the same way I ignore the Terminator movies after T2 judgement day.
The biggest disapointment for me is the lack of world building. It feels like the new movies shrank the galaxy somehow. The Star wars galaxy is massive, and it makes no sense that the new republic fell after one shot from Starkiller base. We just got a paragraph in the opening scroll telling us the first order won. I would have loved to see this happen. Show us how the first order did this. Show us hux jumping in with his star destroyers, decemate planetary defenses, and declare the planet under the control of the first order. Show the new republic military fall because of infighting between factions or complacancy.
Nimander I have to thank you for saying the obvious. The galaxy shrunk 'somehow' because reasons, mystery boxes, and an unexplained power called the First Order that managed to build a larger weapon than the Empire that controlled the entire galaxy...without anyone noticing. Really? I'm in disbelief. I would've loved to see Luke try to build a new jedi order, see how Kylo turned and all that way way way before they slapped us in the face with this current garbage. Maybe even throw in some politics with the problems the Republic was having to have them just swept aside like idiots without any resistance even though they fought impossible odds to defeat the empire.
And NO TIME passed between films! So when did this conquest take place? Are you telling me there were not regional, system, and planetary governments in place in addition to the central government?
I agree with you 1000000% percent. Johnson did not understand ANY of the characters. He totally didn't understand Rey. In TFA, Rey's entire focus is on her parents returning to her. She has abandonment issues. But she never once ever asks WHO her parents are. In fact, there's no indication in TFA that she doesn't already know who they are - just because the audience doesn't know doesn't mean she doesn't know. But Johnson chose to make Rey a surrogate for the audience's questions about Rey's parents. And in doing that, he ruined her. Had the focus been on her abandonment issues, it could have created a major source of tension between her and Luke, who abandoned his own family. Yet I don't think that ever comes up. Would Rey have ever bonded with Kylo Ben, even if Luke rejected her? Her whole arc in TFA was realizing she had a new family of people who care about her - people who DID come back for her when she was taken to Starkiller Base - Han, Finn, and Chewy. Would she bond with the person who just murdered her new father figure and nearly killed her new brother figure? It seems to me like Rey would have gone to hang out with the one person she does have a little history and bond with - grandpa Chewy. And speaking of Chewy, he has one touching scene with Luke where they mourn Han, and then he is comic relief the rest of the movie. I think Chewy would have been pissed at Luke and might even partially blame him for Han's death because he abandoned Han and Leia, and left Kylo in Snoke's hands. I think Chewy would have gone to Luke and threatened to rip off his arms if he didn't do right by Rey. Because doing right by Rey is doing right by Han, since Han died on the mission to save Rey and she is the new hope vs Kylo. Johnson admits he originally tried to write Canto Bight for Poe and Finn, but he couldn't distinguish one character from the other when writing dialogue. Seriously, he couldn't figure out the difference between them. Finn was just sliced up the back with a lightsaber. Make him deal with some of his injury issues. Imagine if Finn was given cybernetic implants, how he would have reacted. He was programmed since childhood to be a stormtrooper - he was a virtual robot - but he had instead chosen his humanity. Now he would be given literal droid-like parts, taking away a bit of his humanity. That would have been interesting character development to explore. But Finn's injuries are 100% healed the first time we see him in TLJ. There are no consequences whatsoever to what happened to him in the previous movie. Instead, his character arc is nearly identical to his arc in TFA. In TFA, he goes from running away from the first order, to going on a mission to save his friend, to going head-to-head against Kylo Ren (and losing). In TLJ, he goes from running away, to going on a mission to try to save everybody, to going head on into the cannon (and failing thanks to Rose). Poe starts TFA by trying to run away from the FO on Jakku when facing overwhelming odds. He only, engages them after they disable his X-wing. Yet in TLJ, his whole character arc is learning that he should run away when facing overwhelming odds. So, he ends Ep VIII where he started EpVII. It's nonsense. And of course there is what Johnson did to Luke Skywalker. I could write pages about how he messed up Luke. And part of the problems with Rey stem from what he did to Luke. For Rey to grow, she needed meaningful interactions with Luke, but they couldn't happen with how Johnson twisted Luke. Why did Luke go to a Jedi Temple? Why did he have books about the Jedi and the force, yet he never read them? Why did he leave a map behind so they could find him when the time was right? None of that makes sense given Johnson's take on the character.
"couldn't distinguish Poe and Finn" It comes as no surprise that they are the exact same character in TLJ then - even though Finn was set up as an ex tropper with PSD issues mixed with bumbling comic relief (any tropper upbringing that might affect him is dropped here), and Poe was a friendly loyal optimistic oldschool rebel pilot guy (who's turned into an impulsive loose canon bad boy becauuuuse we can't top ripping off Han Solo I guess?)
whade62000 - exactly! Want an interesting arc for Finn? Make his injury require cybernetics and explore how that affects his burgeoning sense of self. He was raised as a trooper with no sense of individuality - programmed like a virtual droid - but he chose his humanity in TFA. So, how would he react to being made into a cyborg and losing some of that humanity? Instead, his massive injury at the end of TFA had zero consequences.
Agreed Rogue One was a simple story with a little bit of character development which is what I figured it would be since it was a bridging story. Still wanted more Vader always thought they should have stuck with Chirrut being a Jedi so Vader could have stormed the beach with the 501st and fucked up erbody
With ya man. I had always dreamed of there being a film like Rogue One since I was a kid. Sure the characters were a little underdeveloped but the plot is very strong, the lore of the universe is expanded upon, classic themes of hope, good vs. evil, sacrifice, and redemption are at the forefront, and we got (in my opinion) the best space battle since Return of the Jedi. I was too hard on Rogue One when it first released. Even without a single jedi appearance, it is a true Star Wars film. Not sure if I can say the same about The Last Jedi.
Agree.... Rogue one really drew me in and I enjoyed it. Seeing TLJ at the theater was a painful experience that felt like 5-hrs long. During the movie, I kept checking my watch and wondering why glue doesn't stick inside the bottle.
Rogue One certainly wasn't perfect and had issues. A little more character development, like maybe 10 more minutes of character dialogue, would have been great. The Tarkin face CGI was a tiny bit off as well, there were some pacing issues in the first Act of the movie, and I also felt that the music score was weak compared to other SW films. But overall, it is the best thing that Disney Star Wars has put out so far, in my opinion. It was the first Star Wars film in a while that actually made me afraid of Vader and the Empire again. It felt like a WWII movie in Star Wars, which is awesome. Overall, I put it in fourth place behind all of the original trilogy films in terms of my favorites. In fact, it borderline ties in third place with Return of the Jedi.
Rian Johnson said what happened before and what happened after this movie doesn't matter. He wanted to write his story. He's the biggest problem. He's a bad not proven sjw.
You should watch MauLer's three part analysis of The Last Jedi. He goes REALLY into depth on why the film is objectively the worst Star Wars film in the series.
Yea he really is good at that, although his knowledge of the universe is very limited i would say he understands the reasons why people and me hate the last jedi.
Finn and Rey definitely repeat the same character arcs they did in TFA, but somehow it’s less impactful and doesn’t actually develop the characters. Rey is also exactly the same. Maz tells her her parents aren’t coming back and she needs to take the lightsaber and find Luke and embrace the Force. Where does she end up in TLJ? She has the lightsaber, she’s found Luke, and she has the Jedi texts.
Watched a second time and with my dad since he missed it in theaters. He doesnt follow the lore outside of the movies but he grew up watching the 1st one in theaters 17 times. He didn't know what to expect and ended up falling asleep twice. He said it was boring and didn't like the plot. Hated how they ruined Luke.
My view of the Movie: Imagine a Dragon Ball sequel where you learn that Goku doesn't want to teach Uub because he thinks that fighting is bad but it doesn't matter because Uub has Ultra Instinct by birth. Trunks has turned evil and he has a master who is... someone... not specified... doesn't really matter... someone strong. Vegeta dies by the hand of Trunks but Goku doesn't seem to care that much. At the same time, Gohan and Goten are helping 17 save innocent animals and don't really contribute anything to the story, Bulma is in a coma and Piccolo is dead. As for Krillin and 18, they are fighting in what appears to be a video game somewhere in the universe. The arc begins with Trunks chasing the Z fighters and it ends with... well... Trunks chasing the Z fighters!
Oh I forgot... Uub gives Goku the 4 star dragon ball and he tosses it of a cliff saying "what did you excpect? Walk out firing laser beams of my hands and win over every bad guy?"
@Illuminate: Yeah cause TFA just oozed world building and didn't left the whole "Where did the FO come from... What the hell happened?" up to other movies. JJ wont save this trainwreck.
Character development is my favorite part of any movie or book. Ahsoka is my favorite canon character, because of her character development. She went from a snarky 14 year old, to a badass warrior. She became wise, determined, and one of the best survivors in Star Wars. Darth Bane is my favorite character in any work of fiction. He went from a pissed off miner, to the creator of the Sith order that destroyed the Republic. He was brutal, manipulative, and cunning. The Last Jedi had terrible character development. Rey can't develop because she's basically perfect. Rose is essentially a walking political statement. She's one of the worst written characters in any work of fiction. Her actions contradict numerous themes throughout the movie. Finn had a very touching moment with great development, but Rose crashed into him and scolded him for it. Hux is still one dimensional, and laughably stupid. Luke's actions contradicted everything that was established about his past character development. Kylo Ren was actually very well developed in this movie to me. It sucks that he's the only one with good development.
sikid4000 What’s your point? I’m not just talking about her as a kid... I’m talking about her whole life as a character. Her time in the Clone Wars is only a small part of her journey. She grew into an intelligence officer in the rebellion. She saved countless force sensitive children from the inquisitors.
sikid4000 My bad bro. I read way too much into your comment. I’ve been attacked for commenting my opinions before, so I can get a little too defensive sometimes. You’re right though the Jedi did some really messed up stuff. I wouldn’t be surprised if they sent people younger than Ahsoka was into battle.
Finns “suicide mission” was completely stupid. They literally just established that they aren’t going to be able to stop the cannon, then Finn is like, “you know what, screw it, think I’ll just die anyways.” You know the last scene in the Last Samurai where they all ride into their certain deaths together and all their countrymen were moved to tears? Well it’s kind of like, except they’ve all decided to retreat instead, but one of them decides to sacrifice himself and accomplishes absolutely nothing.
This is the age of the internet, so why would you pay for something you can get for free? There are many virus free, free streaming sites you could have used. They don't deserve our money for this sjw crapfest of a film.
That's why you shouldn't add all those jokes. Imagine decades later from now people watching will cringe so hard. That's if anyone is even watching the sequels in the future lol
FrozenBladeOfChaos that one deleted scene in the elevator (with the stormtrooper slapping Finn in the ass) left me speechless, and thinking, this dude wanted to write a comedy.
sikid4000 it's called opinion personally I love this movie and I respect that you don't, but don't question others who like the movie. If people don't really question fans who like the prequels than just don't.
there are some who will listen to these "facts" and still somehow convince themselves TLJ was great.. the movie is at best ok, i myself find it to be thrash, inconsistent, boring, tone deaf and unwatchable. even the prequels are more rewatchable than TLJ
I agree that Rian Johnson CLEARLY had trouble coming up with a plot for Poe/Finn. But what does he do? Introduces ANOTHER freaking "main" character with Rose. Just bizarre. I did the same with watching TLJ right after TFA and they do NOT mesh well at all. Characters are way different... Snoke, Poe, & Finn are the most obvious. Snoke isn't that arrogant in TFA, and Poe really isn't a hot head at all? I also think Rey feels different... They character changes could have worked if there was a time skip in between the two (like ANH & ESB), but there wasn't and it just feels weird and out of place. Just careless writing if you ask me. Rian Johnson really dropped the ball.
Pretty upset my phone is charging and I can’t listen to this at work without headphones. Damn you apple. But *Things that were really stupid* -Superman Leia in outer space -Everything in the movie after the fight in the throne room/Kylo Rey talk in the elevator -Marvel like humor in Star Wars -Not enough Aliens. -Fuck.
Chuck Buskee the movie was atrocious anyway you slice it. That fight scene was also stupid IMO. When we first see Luke he tells Rey “what did you expect that I take out an entire army with a star sword?” And honestly. By the time Luke had his resolve-yes that was exactly what I was expecting him to do. Roll up, and prove why he is the “greatest” Jedi/force user to ever exist and do just that. Would’ve been EPIC to see him stall for the resistance escape. Geekdom notice this.
SSJ Star Killer Luke Skywalker destroyed an entire freaking AT-AT with just a harpoon gun, a lightsaber, and a hand grenade. After the freaking AT-AT had shot him down and killed his own tailgunner! At least he came up with unorthodox ways to get things done in the original trilogy.
Tried watching it again after borrowing it from a friend. I couldn’t finish it, Think I made it to about a 45 minute mark before I just couldn’t continue anymore.
This movie sucks and for me is the worst star wars movie ever, the prequels never ruined luke skywalker or had no Mary sue Rey and made me feel like Star wars was completely ruined after watching one of there movies, TLJ sucks worst movie ever!!!!
Please, for the love of God, stop trying to shoehorn your partisan fucking political beliefs into a discussion where they are not asked for. Feel free to criticize any individual aspect of the film or any portrayal of a particular character and why you believe the director chose to portray them in that manner. However, I KNOW you're not using the term "SJW" here indiscriminately. The term means "social justice warrior," and you should logically be able to infer that individuals on both ends of the political spectrum could be SJW's. In the same way that left-leaning individuals may advocate for certain policies such as affirmative action with the intent of enacting social justice, the same could be said of traditional conservatives that have frequently attempted to censor media outlets or indiscriminately insert religious symbolism and doctrines into the law. Each of them is trying to enact their own brand of "social justice." However, that's not what you mean. When you say SJW, what you really mean is "liberal," "democrat," "socialist," or really just any term synonymous with left-leaning views or political affiliations. You probably think that you're unbiased and bipartisan, but that is far from the truth. You're just looking for elements in media that defy your preconceived view points and equating those elements with indiscriminate evidence of the negative impact of the opposition. Oh, and before you misunderstand me: I am not defending this film in anyway. I actually fucking hate the film and think it did a lot wrong. I would even go as far as to say that the film is contrary to ideas and themes of equity between individuals of varying races and genders. Particularly, I think that the film portrays several of the women as incompetent and emotionally driven, simply adhering to blatantly sexist stereotypes. I merely want you to separate your preconceived and generalized political ideology from your criticisms of this movie and its varying elements. Think for yourself instead of repeating the same mumbled garbage you hear in your tiny echo-chamber. Articulate what you specifically hate about this film instead of just blaming everything that's wrong with it on your political enemies.
Why can't SJWs accept criticism over their values being pushed to the detriment of a story? I mean y'all reserve the right to criticize everyone else sooo....
I kinda forgot about how irritating all the humour, plot holes, Holdo and Rose can be when you see it a second time. And seeing Luke broken like that is something you never really get used to either.
Bad story, bad editing built on a weak foundation from TFA. I used to think George Lucas writing was bad. Did I mention the REALLY bad writing. Looks okay tho, I guess. Oh and NO, I don't want George back either, I think he purposely sabotaged the franchise when he put Kathy in charge. The problem is clearly at the top, constant mistake after mistake.
But thats George. Thats his style! ITS HIS CREATION! He can do whatever he feels like and like it or not, he did good. He created a massive universe and now we are angry that whole thing got somehow betrayed, which kinda proves it. Who is the audience to think somehow the artist should no longer form part of his art? Thats pretty fucked up. Thats just fucking wrong. That same line of thinking is what produced this film in the first place: Disney thinking they could do something better than what Lucas did. Its not going to happen. And this is the proof, this movie is utterly shit.
In a nutshell, The Last Jedi is the Batman v Superman of the Star Wars franchise. Both movies divisive, old fans hate/dislike it (but appreciate a few good elements), new fans love it, characters weren't the characters that we grew/watched/read. I can't bring myself to buy this on blu-ray
DammySensei Most new fans do not love TLJ. Audience score is a 47% currently, and exit polling data suggests roughly 15% loved it, as opposed to just liking. And that was before opinions were tainted by the well deserved backlash. The movie just sucked.
LSandViper Killer it has good moments. Rey and Kylo against the Snoke's guards, the visuals, Luke (even tho it's not the Luke we all know) but, still a great performance by Mark Hamill and Yoda. It's just....man, just sigh. I don't like divisive movies and director who are divisive (e.g. Zack Snyder). Never liked his previous work before DC and he managed to split the fandom in two, with just two movies...it's crazy
And that's perfectly fine, if you love TLJ, I'm glad. It's just for fans of the original trilogy see this Star Wars movie as not a SW movies. So many things were just bad. And who the hell knows what Ep IX is going to be about/end? I'm not gonna entirely blame JJ Abrams if he kinda fucks up with Ep 9. Rian Johnson ultimately made TLJ an isolated movie. He ignored elements of TFA and decide to just do his OWN movie and ignore what's needs to happen (wrap things up) for the final movie. Again, if you love TLJ, I'm happy for ya. It's just not a lot of people like it.
DammySensei The movie has solid cinematography and score. I’d argue that Rey/Kylo versus the Praetorian Guard wasn’t good at all. Choreography out of an off-Broadway play and the single worst set of the movie. Go watch the Duel of Fates scene from ROTS for an example of a well choreographed fight scene. In fact, watch then back to back, it really highlights Rian’s ineptitude when it comes to melee combat scenes.
Basically, The First Order in The Force Awakens are the Nazis from Saving Private Ryan, and the First Order in The Last Jedi are the Nazis from Hogan's Heroes.
MonkeyDespot Don't insult Colonel Klink. Klink at least could recognized when opportunity unity knocked. Opportunity barged into Snokes room and spat in his face and he didn't notice. Episode one anakin is a more competent villain.
I used to follow the movie critics but for some reason I lost respect on a lot of them because they all liked the movie, I mean movies are subjective but I could not understand ( considering how many Star Wars fans are in the critic business like in collider ) that all of them liked it.
1. Critics like things that surprise them (hence all the praise for "subversion") 2. Lot of critics have just become shills. Just see how many of them ever give negative reviews to any big budget film. 3. Political messaging is now seen as a stand-in for quality storytelling.
I think there's a logical way to bring Luke back alive without undoing what the Last Jedi established. So hear me out guys. Have Episode 9 take place a few years after the Last Jedi. Then establish that the First Order has practically won the war against the Rebellion despite their new found hope. And Rey as revealed in the novels only improves at rapid rates when touched by a living force user so if they reveal that she hasn't been able to battle Kylo Ren in years then she wouldn't be able to evolve as quickly as before. Which allows it to be revealed that without that advantage she actually sucks at learning out to channel the Force. So all that's left is to have the Force Ghosts tell her about the World Between Worlds from the Star Wars Rebels cartoon. She can then journey their and use its ability to travel through time to bring Luke from Episode 8 moments after Yoda restored his faith in the Jedi to the current Episode 9 day. Now with Luke by her side they can join the Rebellion together and battle the First Order together. And since J.J. Abrams likes big twists here would be the big twist of the movie. Snoke is actually still alive living on inside Kylo Ren. Because Snoke wanted Ben to kill him so he could steal his body and thus be young and all powerful. Luke would have to manipulate the Force to destroy the very essence of Snoke and Rey would have to use their own connection to bring back Ben. With the day saved and the war shifting. Rey would take Luke back to his time period where the movie would end with him going up to sit on the rock and ready himself to create his Force Projection. That's how I would honestly do Episode 9 because I think done that way it could allow almost everyone to get what they want.
They didn't accept the backslash. They will double down cause that is what they have done till now. The division is toxic cause right now hollywood is involved in gender war and all the established franchises are paying the price.
Ben Solo I don't think you're entirely wrong and that's why I don't think necessarily my idea would even be considered by the likes of J.J and Kathleen Kennedy if I presented it them.
I watched it four times. After the first, I was confused. After the second, I was upset. After the third, I was angry. After the fourth, I didn't care about anything anymore. Hell no, I didn't buy tickets.
As a fan of this franchise I watched again as well. I’ve seen enough movies in my lifetime though to recognize a very flawed movie. The Last Jedi is a very flawed movie. If Star Wars was a new thing, this movie wouldn’t be getting the pass it’s getting from fans. Also, I think that there is a reason why there is no Celebration this year. They knew how divisive this movie was going to be.
Episode 7 was actually much more poorly written then I originally thought. I don't mind hating on it now since the movie serves no purpose after the dumpster fire that is the Last Jedi... sure the original trilogy and even the prequels had their flaws but what they did right far outweighed the negatives, that's the difference. Not so with this sequel trilogy, there is just no heart to them. As much as I did not want to believe it, they ARE absolutely rushed cash crabs and nothing more, who's ever shoulders that fault may lie upon be it Lucasfilm or Disney ua-cam.com/video/wAOuSMsnsV4/v-deo.html
Yeah, it is the Matrix Reloaded Effect: when you rely on the next film to fill in your narrative and the next film sucks, your film suffers greatly for it.
I’m so glad you mentioned Finn’s arc and how dumb it is. And how contradictory this movie is, Finn was still a coward despite Force Awakens. Anyone can use the force, despite there being so many races of Jedi that weren’t Skywalkers.
Finn doesn't even have much of an arc. He decides to stay with the resistance independent of Rey I guess... but Finn shifting from fighting for Rey to fighting for the resistance is barely different, and it's not even as impactful.
The thing I hated most was there was no passage of time between the two films, and instead the story picks immediately with the first scene of Luke and Rey being where we left off in Force Awakens. The rule I feel is with these films is there should always be a gap of several months or years between their settings to allow for development in the story and the on going conflict that can be filled in later by novels, comics or even tv shows like the Clone Wars series.I feel what should have happened is time has passed and the First Order has furthered its dominion over the galaxy, due to the absence of the Republic. The Resistance meanwhile would have relocated to another world, following their exposure and their base destroyed by the Dreadnought. are again discovered and caught in the middle of the evacuation.With the reappearance of the Dreadnought, Poe would now have motive for wanting to destroyed it and why he would defy Leia. As for Rey, she could have woken up in one of the stone huts, and her encounter with Luke and getting him to train her could have been shown in flash backs to account for he time on the island.Also, I have to disagree in regards to Chewie doing nothing, which I feel he did.
7:30 he also saw no plan from Holdo except to just stay the course, which is why he felt a mutiny was necessary. Even after he executed his plan, she could have said "by the way, this is what I've been planning on" and he would have realized what's really going on. Poe did absolutely nothing wrong. It was a good call to take out the dreadnaught. It just sucks that their bombers were so slow and fragile. It was good to ask those in authority for a plan, especially since he was their best pilot. But he was given nothing to work with, and did his best to save the Rebellion.
You misunderstood Finn’s arc in the Force Awakens. In this movie he only learns to protect what he is attached to, which at this point is Rey. He didn’t wanted to « do the right thing », he said himself to Han that his only goal was to save Rey. In the beginning of The Last Jedi, he still wants to protect Rey, but learns to fight for a more noble cause.
Tenryuunaito Listen to 1:04-1:07 again and even the whole first two minutes in general. He says hate multiple times, I'm not making that up. And even if he "disliked" it, does that validate 8 viewings?
Churro Art give me a break. There is no justification for wasting your time on a movie that you clearly don't like. I can understand 2-4 repeat viewings. But 8?! C'mon now. Don't give the generic "everybody's different". That's weak
Thanks WorldofGeekdom, I share the same thoughts as you buddy. Us fanboys can't get everything we want when it comes to these movies. But through and through this movie, and the people working on it, didn't seem to know where they even wanted it to go. Characters, story arcs, underlying themes. I'm all for shaking up the norm but I don't agree with the way they did it not necessarily what they did.
I agree with everything you said however I felt one big thing missing from this film was Han Solo. I know Harrison Ford was happy he got killed off but it just felt weird to have Leia, Luke and chewie but not Han Solo. Is it just me that felt that way?
WhovianFan2003 you aren't alone. I don't even understand how he DOESN'T EVEN GET A FUNERAL? He was a general for the new republic FFS. "The rebels aka resistance didn't have time, they had to run". This is the issue, people don't even want the movie to slow down... Disney has killed Star Wars.
I personally think the Last Jedi at its core never really had a chance just because the movie would have had a much better opportunity for the development of the characters if there was some sort of time skip in between movies.
It would have been more free, but I still think a creative person should've been able to make something great, even with all the restrictions imposed by TFA.
And why couldn't it? I mean seriously... tell me how they were unable to skip 3 years ahead and have Luke and Rey spend training on the island all that time. There was nothing "forced" by TFA.
Hassat Hunter Well... most people wanted a resolution to the last scene of TFA, so skipping ahead would've been tough... but at this point, skipping the resolution of that scene would've been better than what Johnson did.
Worldofgeekdom, I agree with some of the things you mentioned but I disagree with the Poe analogy and here's why. I do think his character changed by the end of the movie. Poe was a "let's fight no matter what" "triggerhappy" kind of character and he was indeed a good leader for battle but he learned by the end of the movie that there's moments that a battle is needed but there's also moments where it's necessary to escape. Leia noticed that he had potential but needed some molding in order to become a better leader. When he tells Leia by the end of the movie that Luke was causing a distraction for them to escape, she looked at him with admiration. She have him the "Now you have understood and learned that we can't fight everytime and put the teams life in jeopardy" kind of look. Poe Dameron had learned from his mistakes.
Honestly, it barely scores higher than Transformers: Dark of the Moon for me. Only the technical stuff (camera, acting, visuals, sounds,) are better. But the story.... nah pretty much just as incomprehensible.
How is it a decent action movie? Did the slow paced battleship chase thrill you? Did you enjoy the fight between a human and a ghost? Did you feel a connection with a hero that is already perfect and has no "journey" whatsoever? Which part of it was decent? Even if you have never seen a Star Wars movie before, THE MOVIE SUCKS.
Tbh Rey’s character could have been amazingly done, bc her concept could have been (even though I hated the fact she was no one) it’s not about who any1 is or how legendary they are it’s how they got to that point is wat matters but noooooooooooooo the writers had to kill the Rey reveal and kill any character plot or explanation that could possibly make a good save over that decision
I can't understand why anyone can like this film. Kylo Ren's entire character alone, ruins this trilogy beyond repair, given that he's not sympathetic at all despite the tone of both TFA and TLJ, and generally none of his motivations make any sense. Yet both people who like and hate the film will say he's the best character. I guess some development is better than no development, but in the end the movie makes it abundantly clear Snoke had nothing to do with Kylo's turning when he killed all the other Jedi unjustifiably, yep right after what Luke did Kylo kills everyone else in the Jedi temple for no reason and yet even with Snoke's influence he kills his own father, hesitates to kill his own mother(but almost does it) just to kill Snoke to save a random girl he's known for what, a couple days maybe? A week? Proving once and for all Snoke had little influence on him since all it took for him to kill Snoke was a few mean comments. So we have Vader who kills the emperor to save his son and Kylo who kills Snoke all because he made fun of him. Bravo Ryan Johnson, oh but it gets worse, then at the end battle scene he hates his father's ship for seemingly no reason. You can talk about themes of destroying the past all you want, but hating a ship because your Uncle (who's spent relatively little time in it anyway) tried to kill you? No, that be like me burning my grandmother's house to the ground out of anger because my dad abused me. Themes don't work if the character's motivations have no rhyme or reason. These are not the motivations of a normal person, these are the actions of someone who's mentally insane. Granted if his character was always meant to be known as a mentally ill person, that's one thing, but both movies suggests he's a victim of circumstance and I say no. You don't get to inadvertently kill half the galaxy and claim *YOU'RE* the victim. At least with Anakin he had clear influence by Palpatine and everything he did no matter how cruel was to save the life of his wife after losing his mother. And even as Darth Vader, he's a character who stays on the dark side out of shame and gives it up to save his son. Say what you want about Anakin and the prequels, but at least I can understand Anakin's actions and motivations. Anakin hating the Jedi order is a little unorthodox, but everything else is clear with how this character was brought up. Not Kylo, he's just a whiny emo manchild who makes life altering decisions for nonexistent reasons, and is in no way sympathetic. And even though I won't absolutely *KNOW* what will happen in ep9 I can honestly say it can only go one of three ways at this point 1) Kylo sees the light, becomes good, and is forgiven for killing millions unjustifiably, 2) Same as one with the added bonus he dies in the end, which would make it a copy and paste of Return of the Jedi in a trilogy too similar to the original trilogy anyway 3) Kylo stays evil and dies, making the first two movies setting him up as the tragic anti hero virtually pointless. And in all honesty *I* *HOPE* *I'M* *WRONG* I don't want a bad Star Wars movie, but I can no longer generate hype for this series.
wlfmanjack I think it is clear. There are several people out there who don't care about the story itself, they just want to be entertained or use the occasion for dating, having "fun" with friends etc. They don't care about the movie itself. Now note that this is not necessarily bad. These are casual movie watchers. If you really just shut your brain off, and check the production value, entertainment value, both movies do a good job at this. It is not just Kylo who doesn't make sense, but you can say it to almost every characters in TFA/TLJ. Actually almost every action or scene in this movie makes no sense.
TFA and TLJ feel like they have no continuity as if TLJ was like an alternate universe version of events. All the build up of Rey’s lineage meaning something in TFA...scraped Any development for Snoke and the “completion” of Kylo’s training...nope How did Maz get Luke’s/Anakin’s lightsaber...ehh who cares? All the tension of the final scene of TFA of Rey handing Luke his lightsaber back...ruined. Luke...I won’t even start because that’s an essay all on its own on how badly handled his character was. One of the weakest things about TLJ is that we are supposed to believe the events that take place in the film happen within days of the end TFA. Which again is almost essay worthy on how it doesn’t fit or make sense given the narrative (using that term lightly) we are given TLJ. What do we really have to look forward to in Ep.IX? Other than seeing what JJ comes up with to try and salvage the trilogy? Not much...Rey and Kylo have a lightsaber duel for the fate of the galaxy. I won’t be holding my breath.
I see a lot of youtubes dislike it saying, I can see why other people may like it, but still to this day I can't see anything to like in the movie and not one person who likes it has given real reason why they do.
But is it really up to them to convince you? If they like it, they like it. They don't need to justify it, nor do you have to justify your dislike for it. Film is subjective, thus different opinions.
The Last Jedi was a good movie if you do not care about plot holes, storytelling, pacing, character arts, continuity, source material and everything else that made Star Wars great. This film lacks the very foundation that made Star Wars what it is and as long as they give us good special effects and call it Star Wars then apparently that's good enough for a lot of people who refer to themselves as fans of the genre.
The problem with that kind of analysis of character development and their motivations is that it doesn't work when you try to summarize each of them in one sentence. It makes the movie harder to digest for most people (clearly), but it's also the reason why I fell in love with The Last Jedi in a way I didn't expect was possible in the Star Wars franchise. I admit I got a little prepared before watching the movie, swimming on waves of hype. Johnson stated that he was heavily inspired by classic war movies, mentioning Bridge on the river Kwai among others. I'm point at this one specifically because it became my main reference point. I watched it for the first time shortly before the release of TLJ and madly fell in love with it. Bridge on the river Kwai is a lengthy story set in a very claustrophobic setting, filled with unexpected turns regarding character development and shifting perspectives about what it means to be a good person and a war hero. I hope it sounds familiar. Because I was amazed at how similar in spirit these movies are. They both focus on ambiguous morality during war and that there is rarely a simple answer in a situation where killing people is involved. That's a problem every character faces at some point of the movie, and they struggle finding a solution, each of them trying to make sense of this madness. I could start listing examples at this point, but it's a youtube comment section... which means I've wasted enough time already ;) Oh, and I love that Hux is a joke not involved in any of the complex stuff I just wrote about. He's a space neo-nazi - he should be ridiculous. And because of that, he's unpredictably dangerous - notice how he looks at Kylo at the end of the movie - love it!
Force awakens was great my second fav Star Wars film. If only j.j directed the last Jedi. It would have been a completely different film a better film.
What I wanted to happen: -Rey and Kylo are related -Kylo never removes the mask -Knights of Ren show up -Snoke convinces Rey to jump over to the dark side to set up Episode 9 and is revealed to be Darth Plagieus reincarnate -Finn is shown to be sensitive with the force as well -The First Order is revealed to have 3 more planets built as Starkiller bases -Leia dies (out of respect to Fisher’s character, please no CGI) and Luke reunited with her before death ... that would of been awesome... NOPE WE GOT THIS SHIT SHOW
when the opening crawl happened I was smiling excited, thinking this is going to be great , then the smiles turned to boredom, the frowning begun, I left disappointed,
11:30 I didn't pick up on this before, but now that I think about it, you're right. Snoke in TFA was like a father figure that Kylo Ren and General Hux were competing for attention from. They obviously respected, revered, and feared him, but they were also comfortable enough going up to his hologram to ask for things or to explain things to him, even in moments of weakness (like when Kylo failed to interrogate Rey). In TLJ, he was just the villain that all the other villains were scared of, and that was about it.
Can we also acknowledge the horrible job they did naming new characters? Lucas gave us Luke Skywalker, Princess Leia Organa, Han Solo and Darth Vader. JJ gave us Rey, Finn, Poe and Hux.
Let's just say, to keep things short, bad writing in general, lack of tension in an overpowered main character and lack of powerful villain, and characters making really illogical decisions
We don't all hate it. I love that the two strongest force users on opposite sides have a connection and an attraction to each other, and I can't wait to see what comes of that in Episode 9.
Imagine a Dragon Ball sequel where you learn that Goku doesn't want to teach Uub because he thinks that fighting is bad but it doesn't matter because Uub has Ultra Instinct by birth. Trunks has turned evil and he has a master who is... someone... not specified... doesn't really matter... someone strong. Vegeta dies by the hand of Trunks but Goku doesn't seem to care that much. At the same time, Gohan and Goten are helping 17 save innocent animals and don't really contribute anything to the story, Bulma is in a coma and Piccolo is dead. As for Krillin and 18, they are fighting in what appears to be a video game somewhere in the universe. The arc begins with Trunks chasing the Z fighters and it ends with... well... Trunks chasing the Z fighters!
Even if I loved the most of JJ tv series... when the Force Awakens was released for me was ONLY an "ok movie", a SAFE approach for a new Star Wars trilogy, same like the Star Trek trilogy , but nevertheless A STAR WARS movie, When The Last Jedi was released, I went one time and that one time was ENOUGH, I went out EMPTY inside. The feeling that I had was THAT is not a STAR WARS movie, only an "ok action movie with no character at all" THATS IT. The rest of 3 times I watched it from pirate sites with friends everytime and everytime I was more mad then the other. More more more. This drove me to think that, THIS WAS their plan all along: make a first movie copy of the first Star Wars, SAFE movie and then SUBVERT expectation in the second movie, effectively DESTROY old characters and old trilogy only to make their (Di$ney) imprint on the Trilogy, making TRUELY THEIR MOVIE. Because lets face it, it was NEVER their movie, they only bought it from George, the STORY was George's, even after they bought it anybody was talking about George Star Wars, not about Di$ney Star Wars. That is why they didn't let J J make all 3 movies, they bring for the second movie a nobody to destroy, a YES man, a guy that wasn't EVEN qualified to make a STAR WARS, with movies like Brick , Brothers Bloom, Looper and 3 episodes of Breaking Bad, Ruin Johnson was NEVER EVER QUALIFIED for this kind of MOVIE, he was hired only to destroy the old characters and story, to subvert the expectations, HE IS a nobody, a nobody director, he wants to be known, NOW with this publicity, HE WILL GET more and more contracts because he done Star Wars, ANYBODY speaks about Ruin Johnson now, any publicity is good publicity, a guy like this, doesn't EVEN like Star Wars and I'm 100% sure about this. LOOK at his face when he laugh over Mark Hamill, it's Rumpelstiltskin all over.... if THAT is a GUY that loves STAR WARS, I cut my most important member of my body. :)
Is there part of the first sentence missing? It begins "So I watched STLJ again ...". That's not right. 'I was curious so I watched STLJ again ...' or 'I was bored so I watched STLJ again ...' (etc) work fine. What is the missing part of your opening sentence?! Please don't say that you DELIBERATELY started the sentence with "so". That would be SO irritating!
Star Wars: A New Hope(now), not only was almost not made, but was also made as a stand alone. When it hit theaters, it was like finding a unicorn in the woods by mistake. It was beautiful. Majestic, even. Then Big Corp got a hold of it. They chained it down, cut off its horn, underfed it, painted it 15 different colors, over rode it, killed it, sold it, and ran it through a meat grinder. Now it's just a blood-soggy burlap sack, with a horn sticking out of the top, like a birthday candle, and the words 'star wars' written on it with a crayon. I feel your pain.
I was hoping it grew on me too but it didnt........It sucks for so many reasons Im tired of talking about it. When the next one comes out it will be the 1st time since Ive become a star wars junky that I dont go see it on opening night in theaters, instead I will wait for the blueray, I dont care how many spoilers I hear about before I get the next one on BluRay after seeing this movie there is no conceivable way you can turn it around and actually make the story good. The most significant characters said and did so many things that were outside of who they were they stripped the essence away from the story,. I havent turned on my lightsaber collection in months. On the wall collecting dust......horrible
Having watched THE ENTIRE SERIES IN A FUCKING WEEKEND for the first time. Knowing the history and that the original trilogy were technically the first movies and having seen episode four before. I had the ability to look at the whole story from beginning to end. I'm also not a die-hard starwars fan. I like it but I'm not going to get my ass chapped over it. This last movie honestly was a damn good movie. It was witty (needed to be like 45 mins shorter. The character of Luke Skywalker underwent massive character development. He had a split second judgement WHICH HE DIDNT GO THROUGH WITH that cost him dearly. He grieved and hid like someone would have in the situation and took books as concrete facts. My god it's like people don't want character development. Luke Skywalker basically admitted himself in the scene with Yoda that he's not perfect and never was. I respect you're opinion in that was wasn't the best movie but I think it was a good set up to the next movie that I'll probably enjoy and everyone else will probably hate.
This type of viewer is the problem. Changing characters up for the sake of changing them up does not equal "Character DEVELOPMENT". If you transformed Batman into a homosexual sex worker at the start of the 3rd movie in the Dark Knight trilogy - would it mean Character Development? of course not. Luke didn't undergo character development. His character was deleted and replaced with someone else. Same goes to Han Solo, and to some extent even Leia thanks to the stupid "witty" and "humorous" tone of the last movie.
SSJ1Igor when have you written anything in you're life? You probably don't know character development from moonshine. Your reply is actually generic as it is laughable
You may have enjoyed the movie for some inexplicable reason, but it was not a good movie by any metric save cinematography and score. Hey, I like several bad movies, that still doesn’t make them objectively good.
I saw it for the second time the other night cause my wife hadn't seen it yet. She hated it as well, and it didn't get any better after a second viewing. I think I will stop at 2 and not bother to ever watch it again. TLJ did do one good thing for me. I now feel no want or desire to see another Disney Wars film ever again.
Unfortunately JJ only has a talent for setting up plots and intrigue (his "mystery box" tactic). He has proven multiple times he has no talent for resolving them in a satisfactory manner.
JJ scam-rams? They guy who gave C-3PO a red arm in the Force Awakens as some kind of “teaser” of some important plot point? The guy who applied his signature “let’s make a lazy reboot” style to the force awakens despite how little sense it makes for the star wars saga? “Hey guys, you know where the trilogy begins after the event of Return of the Jedi? Right where it started in a New Hope of course!” Yep, the Jedi didn’t return after all, the dark side wasn’t defeated after all, the Republic wasn’t well-established, and the new empire virtually assumed power already. Gee, I wonder if any of these hugely significant events merit having their story told... Nah! Let’s just rehash a New Hope, tease a bunch of important events of the past, then force the next movie to explain the past while simultaneously telling its own narrative in the future.
There's only one way to salvage the franchise. Episode IX opening scene: Jedi Academy on Yavin IV Mara Jade: "Luke wake up! what's wrong?" Luke: "There's a great disturbance in the force. I had a nightmare that felt extremely real. Like I was there living it. I was trapped on an Island dressed as a homeless person. I thought my name was Jake and I did unspeakable things to a weird alien seal. Han had only one child who had fallen to the dark side and killed him" Mara Jade: "I don't sense anything. It was only a bad dream. come one get dressed Han and Leia are flying in from Coruscant today. They will be here in a few hours"
So wait. You brought up the pointlessness of the subplot to disable the first order's trackers since they were sold out; but how did the guy know what they were doing to sell them out? I think you said from Poe, but he didn't know. I only watched it once, but as far as I remember he didn't interact with anyone who had any idea what the actual plan was, but somehow sold them out anyway.
Even though I may not agree with everything you’ve said, I’m happy to finally see someone who is ACTUALLY EXPLAINING his problem with the film instead of just repeating “Disney ruined Star Wars” or “Rian Johnson sucks”. I still liked the film, but I’m glad to see someone also acknowledge the good and the bad the film and not just the bad. I actually enjoyed listening to your point of you. You definitely know your stuff.
You've seen it 8 times?? How can you do that to yourself!?
Apparently he's into torturing himself I mean how ya nut is how ya nut
Yeah I only saw it twice .But I did the same I saw Force awakens then saw the last Jedi and same didn't feel conected
worse! he bought it just to make sure it did suck as he already knew.
so he contributed to TLJ's profits like 5 times in a theater and then a bluray giving them the idea that somebody loved the movie and they need to make ep 9 just like ep 8.
Bastards tricked me in the theater and I couldn't get my money back. not gonna trick me a 2nd time with the same movie ☺
It's like saying this movie sucks so let me support it so they can make more garbage.
LexStarBeats I cant even watch the best of movies 8 times
I think I’m officially done with the franchise. It just went into a completely different direction and it no longer feels like a star wars film.
BoxingWave yeah done here too!
Third
BoxingWav
Hell yeah! Awesome!👍👍
Pretty much how i feel. The jedi and sith are dead and star wars with it. Rey, leia and kylo can be force attuned all they want but the jedi (luke) and sith (snoke) are dead.
Also, Disney is completely screwing up the tempo of a trilogy:
2015 Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens
2016 Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (Episode 3.95?)
2017 Star Wars: Episode VIII - The Last Jedi
2018 Solo: A Star Wars Story (10 years prior to Rogue One)
2019 Star Wars: Episode IX -
The Last Jedi doesn't feel like a Star Wars movie at ALL.
It really doesnt even tho *TOTALLY NOT HOTH AND ELEMENTS OF EP5 AND 6 ARE THROWN IN* it just feels odd as a stand alone story it probably would have looked better but NOW these morons can't bank on nostalgia on the generational fans getting baited in the first week to prop up numbers. As we saw the *NEW* fans cant keep it the money train going
Director who's name is spelled Rian
NONE of the Di$ney SW movies have.
I agree...
Who Am i? Adam told us in the movie lol
ua-cam.com/video/ia7W-KxWSgw/v-deo.html
Ever watch The Prequels to wash out the bad taste of this movie? Just me? Ok lol
You're not alone. I went home watched ROTS and TCW show lol. Lots of other people did too.
I’ve been doing the same. It’s a relief watching them.TLJ can’t hold a candle to the prequels or the originals
The prequels were boring, although you would cry in ep 3 if you watched tcw.
The last jedi was insulting and there is nothing you can do to fix it. The very direction of the movie sucked from the start.
sikid4000 the clone wars is awesome! There's some crappy episodes like when jar jar is the main focus but I just skip those. Anakin ended up being my favorite character
The prequels?😂😂😂 To get the bad taste out of my mouth I watched Rogue one then the original trilogy. I stop my star wars marathon at ROTJ. I'm going to ignore the new trilogy the same way I ignore the Terminator movies after T2 judgement day.
The biggest disapointment for me is the lack of world building.
It feels like the new movies shrank the galaxy somehow. The Star wars galaxy is massive, and it makes no sense that the new republic fell after one shot from Starkiller base. We just got a paragraph in the opening scroll telling us the first order won. I would have loved to see this happen. Show us how the first order did this. Show us hux jumping in with his star destroyers, decemate planetary defenses, and declare the planet under the control of the first order. Show the new republic military fall because of infighting between factions or complacancy.
gotta wait for those "anthology" movies to do that...all the main ones deal with force sensitives smh
You know, I come from a country where the invaders burned down our entire capital city and we still won that war in the end.
Nimander Its like the Republic had no alliances or protocols whatsoever for an attack
Nimander I have to thank you for saying the obvious. The galaxy shrunk 'somehow' because reasons, mystery boxes, and an unexplained power called the First Order that managed to build a larger weapon than the Empire that controlled the entire galaxy...without anyone noticing. Really? I'm in disbelief. I would've loved to see Luke try to build a new jedi order, see how Kylo turned and all that way way way before they slapped us in the face with this current garbage. Maybe even throw in some politics with the problems the Republic was having to have them just swept aside like idiots without any resistance even though they fought impossible odds to defeat the empire.
And NO TIME passed between films! So when did this conquest take place? Are you telling me there were not regional, system, and planetary governments in place in addition to the central government?
I agree with you 1000000% percent. Johnson did not understand ANY of the characters. He totally didn't understand Rey. In TFA, Rey's entire focus is on her parents returning to her. She has abandonment issues. But she never once ever asks WHO her parents are. In fact, there's no indication in TFA that she doesn't already know who they are - just because the audience doesn't know doesn't mean she doesn't know. But Johnson chose to make Rey a surrogate for the audience's questions about Rey's parents. And in doing that, he ruined her. Had the focus been on her abandonment issues, it could have created a major source of tension between her and Luke, who abandoned his own family. Yet I don't think that ever comes up.
Would Rey have ever bonded with Kylo Ben, even if Luke rejected her? Her whole arc in TFA was realizing she had a new family of people who care about her - people who DID come back for her when she was taken to Starkiller Base - Han, Finn, and Chewy. Would she bond with the person who just murdered her new father figure and nearly killed her new brother figure? It seems to me like Rey would have gone to hang out with the one person she does have a little history and bond with - grandpa Chewy.
And speaking of Chewy, he has one touching scene with Luke where they mourn Han, and then he is comic relief the rest of the movie. I think Chewy would have been pissed at Luke and might even partially blame him for Han's death because he abandoned Han and Leia, and left Kylo in Snoke's hands. I think Chewy would have gone to Luke and threatened to rip off his arms if he didn't do right by Rey. Because doing right by Rey is doing right by Han, since Han died on the mission to save Rey and she is the new hope vs Kylo.
Johnson admits he originally tried to write Canto Bight for Poe and Finn, but he couldn't distinguish one character from the other when writing dialogue. Seriously, he couldn't figure out the difference between them. Finn was just sliced up the back with a lightsaber. Make him deal with some of his injury issues. Imagine if Finn was given cybernetic implants, how he would have reacted. He was programmed since childhood to be a stormtrooper - he was a virtual robot - but he had instead chosen his humanity. Now he would be given literal droid-like parts, taking away a bit of his humanity. That would have been interesting character development to explore. But Finn's injuries are 100% healed the first time we see him in TLJ. There are no consequences whatsoever to what happened to him in the previous movie. Instead, his character arc is nearly identical to his arc in TFA. In TFA, he goes from running away from the first order, to going on a mission to save his friend, to going head-to-head against Kylo Ren (and losing). In TLJ, he goes from running away, to going on a mission to try to save everybody, to going head on into the cannon (and failing thanks to Rose).
Poe starts TFA by trying to run away from the FO on Jakku when facing overwhelming odds. He only, engages them after they disable his X-wing. Yet in TLJ, his whole character arc is learning that he should run away when facing overwhelming odds. So, he ends Ep VIII where he started EpVII. It's nonsense.
And of course there is what Johnson did to Luke Skywalker. I could write pages about how he messed up Luke. And part of the problems with Rey stem from what he did to Luke. For Rey to grow, she needed meaningful interactions with Luke, but they couldn't happen with how Johnson twisted Luke. Why did Luke go to a Jedi Temple? Why did he have books about the Jedi and the force, yet he never read them? Why did he leave a map behind so they could find him when the time was right? None of that makes sense given Johnson's take on the character.
Mr. Boma's Balloons This is a spot on analysts!
K
Mr. Boma's Balloons
Comon brother, The Farse Awakens is a pile of garbage
"couldn't distinguish Poe and Finn"
It comes as no surprise that they are the exact same character in TLJ then - even though Finn was set up as an ex tropper with PSD issues mixed with bumbling comic relief (any tropper upbringing that might affect him is dropped here), and Poe was a friendly loyal optimistic oldschool rebel pilot guy (who's turned into an impulsive loose canon bad boy becauuuuse we can't top ripping off Han Solo I guess?)
whade62000 - exactly! Want an interesting arc for Finn? Make his injury require cybernetics and explore how that affects his burgeoning sense of self. He was raised as a trooper with no sense of individuality - programmed like a virtual droid - but he chose his humanity in TFA. So, how would he react to being made into a cyborg and losing some of that humanity? Instead, his massive injury at the end of TFA had zero consequences.
I rather see Rogue one over TLJ. Rogue one is what I wanted as SW fan. The whole visuals of the space battle imo was good and of course other stuff.
Agreed Rogue One was a simple story with a little bit of character development which is what I figured it would be since it was a bridging story. Still wanted more Vader always thought they should have stuck with Chirrut being a Jedi so Vader could have stormed the beach with the 501st and fucked up erbody
But... the beach has sand. and you know vader's feelings about it.
With ya man. I had always dreamed of there being a film like Rogue One since I was a kid. Sure the characters were a little underdeveloped but the plot is very strong, the lore of the universe is expanded upon, classic themes of hope, good vs. evil, sacrifice, and redemption are at the forefront, and we got (in my opinion) the best space battle since Return of the Jedi. I was too hard on Rogue One when it first released. Even without a single jedi appearance, it is a true Star Wars film. Not sure if I can say the same about The Last Jedi.
Agree.... Rogue one really drew me in and I enjoyed it. Seeing TLJ at the theater was a painful experience that felt like 5-hrs long. During the movie, I kept checking my watch and wondering why glue doesn't stick inside the bottle.
Rogue One certainly wasn't perfect and had issues. A little more character development, like maybe 10 more minutes of character dialogue, would have been great. The Tarkin face CGI was a tiny bit off as well, there were some pacing issues in the first Act of the movie, and I also felt that the music score was weak compared to other SW films.
But overall, it is the best thing that Disney Star Wars has put out so far, in my opinion. It was the first Star Wars film in a while that actually made me afraid of Vader and the Empire again. It felt like a WWII movie in Star Wars, which is awesome. Overall, I put it in fourth place behind all of the original trilogy films in terms of my favorites. In fact, it borderline ties in third place with Return of the Jedi.
Yup, TLJ still garbage
Rian Johnson said what happened before and what happened after this movie doesn't matter. He wanted to write his story. He's the biggest problem. He's a bad not proven sjw.
it sucked
You should watch MauLer's three part analysis of The Last Jedi. He goes REALLY into depth on why the film is objectively the worst Star Wars film in the series.
Master Vidxad 58 Mauler's is the best IMO, I hope he does the analysis for other movies too.
suemorphplus2009 meh he tends to do drunk live vids of him ranting about console gaming... lol
Master Vidxad 58 He's like Plinkett for the new trilogy. I really hope RLM gives us a great review for TLJ though.
Yea he really is good at that, although his knowledge of the universe is very limited i would say he understands the reasons why people and me hate the last jedi.
I finally listened to his 5 hours of analysis. Very good and recommended, whether you like TLJ or not.
Finn and Rey definitely repeat the same character arcs they did in TFA, but somehow it’s less impactful and doesn’t actually develop the characters.
Rey is also exactly the same. Maz tells her her parents aren’t coming back and she needs to take the lightsaber and find Luke and embrace the Force. Where does she end up in TLJ? She has the lightsaber, she’s found Luke, and she has the Jedi texts.
“The sacred texts!”
Watched a second time and with my dad since he missed it in theaters. He doesnt follow the lore outside of the movies but he grew up watching the 1st one in theaters 17 times. He didn't know what to expect and ended up falling asleep twice. He said it was boring and didn't like the plot. Hated how they ruined Luke.
My view of the Movie:
Imagine a Dragon Ball sequel where you learn that Goku doesn't want to teach Uub because he thinks that fighting is bad but it doesn't matter because Uub has Ultra Instinct by birth. Trunks has turned evil and he has a master who is... someone... not specified... doesn't really matter... someone strong. Vegeta dies by the hand of Trunks but Goku doesn't seem to care that much. At the same time, Gohan and Goten are helping 17 save innocent animals and don't really contribute anything to the story, Bulma is in a coma and Piccolo is dead. As for Krillin and 18, they are fighting in what appears to be a video game somewhere in the universe.
The arc begins with Trunks chasing the Z fighters and it ends with... well... Trunks chasing the Z fighters!
Oh I forgot... Uub gives Goku the 4 star dragon ball and he tosses it of a cliff saying "what did you excpect? Walk out firing laser beams of my hands and win over every bad guy?"
J Vlh you've thought about this a lot i see.
J Vlh oh, you mean Super?
pan cakes yes, I mean Dragon Ball Super
Shut up with anime weeb
Yep! That movie was horrible! I'm done with this new star wars reboot and im not buyng the DVD or seeing the next movie.
Jj abrams coming back for ep 9 though so theres hope that we get all the world building we needed.
@Illuminate: Yeah cause TFA just oozed world building and didn't left the whole "Where did the FO come from... What the hell happened?" up to other movies.
JJ wont save this trainwreck.
he atleast addressed a clone army and the new republic instead of forgetting about those things completely.
Yet somehow didn't manage to, in any way, explain why the NR and Resistance are even seperate things entirely.
thats what the books are for
Character development is my favorite part of any movie or book.
Ahsoka is my favorite canon character, because of her character development. She went from a snarky 14 year old, to a badass warrior. She became wise, determined, and one of the best survivors in Star Wars.
Darth Bane is my favorite character in any work of fiction. He went from a pissed off miner, to the creator of the Sith order that destroyed the Republic. He was brutal, manipulative, and cunning.
The Last Jedi had terrible character development. Rey can't develop because she's basically perfect. Rose is essentially a walking political statement. She's one of the worst written characters in any work of fiction. Her actions contradict numerous themes throughout the movie. Finn had a very touching moment with great development, but Rose crashed into him and scolded him for it. Hux is still one dimensional, and laughably stupid. Luke's actions contradicted everything that was established about his past character development.
Kylo Ren was actually very well developed in this movie to me. It sucks that he's the only one with good development.
Eric J Blevins She was a little teenage girl the Jedi let fight in a galactic war...
sikid4000 What’s your point? I’m not just talking about her as a kid... I’m talking about her whole life as a character. Her time in the Clone Wars is only a small part of her journey. She grew into an intelligence officer in the rebellion. She saved countless force sensitive children from the inquisitors.
It was just a joke on how messed up the Jedi are if you think about it. I didn't know she saved force sensitives though.
sikid4000 My bad bro. I read way too much into your comment. I’ve been attacked for commenting my opinions before, so I can get a little too defensive sometimes. You’re right though the Jedi did some really messed up stuff. I wouldn’t be surprised if they sent people younger than Ahsoka was into battle.
Finns “suicide mission” was completely stupid. They literally just established that they aren’t going to be able to stop the cannon, then Finn is like, “you know what, screw it, think I’ll just die anyways.” You know the last scene in the Last Samurai where they all ride into their certain deaths together and all their countrymen were moved to tears? Well it’s kind of like, except they’ve all decided to retreat instead, but one of them decides to sacrifice himself and accomplishes absolutely nothing.
You are brave, I paid $6 for rental and I could not watch it!! So much crap
I watched it. It was crap. But...... You can't ignore crap...watch it through at least so you know how bad it is.
because reasons can't watch it again bro maybe in the future
Aliex Fishing FiOS said first rental is free and I've had FiOS since 2008 lol
I rented this for free and still felt cheated its AWFUL
I watched it for free online and I still felt hard done by.
This is the age of the internet, so why would you pay for something you can get for free? There are many virus free, free streaming sites you could have used. They don't deserve our money for this sjw crapfest of a film.
Did you hear about Spielberg saying the next Indy could be female. I guess the next tomb raider could be male..
So Nathan Drake essentially LOL
Not sure what it has to do with this video, but I couldn't give a shit in either case. I won't be watching Indy or Tomb Raider movies anyway.
Rhetro Active I thought it was kinda funny, so just brought it up.
DarthDominus we already have nathan drake from uncharted
EdoItachiAnbu just rename uncharted and call it tomb raider
Man i really thought luke would evolved into ultra instinct instead of evolving into ultra extinct
It was more unwatchable on blu ray. A lot of the slapstick comedy was just so awkward and out of place
That's why you shouldn't add all those jokes. Imagine decades later from now people watching will cringe so hard. That's if anyone is even watching the sequels in the future lol
FrozenBladeOfChaos that one deleted scene in the elevator (with the stormtrooper slapping Finn in the ass) left me speechless, and thinking, this dude wanted to write a comedy.
It's like a star wars parody...it shocks me big SW youtubers like Hellogreedo enjoy this
sikid4000 it's called opinion personally I love this movie and I respect that you don't, but don't question others who like the movie. If people don't really question fans who like the prequels than just don't.
It's narrative is more broken than any star wars narrative I have ever seen in my life.
it still burns as dumpsterfire
Not a fair comparison. At least dumpster fires are fun to watch.
there are some who will listen to these "facts" and still somehow convince themselves TLJ was great.. the movie is at best ok, i myself find it to be thrash, inconsistent, boring, tone deaf and unwatchable. even the prequels are more rewatchable than TLJ
yes because how dare people have a different opinion than you
Stupidadi ...you aren’t trying to see the truth. You are a follower and that’s ok.
*I agree, at least the prequels have badass light saber fighters and cool villains like Darth Maul, Jango Fett and General Grievous.*
Now that I have watched this. I am so so sorry for your eyes and ears and time that you watched this atrocious film 7 times.
I agree that Rian Johnson CLEARLY had trouble coming up with a plot for Poe/Finn. But what does he do? Introduces ANOTHER freaking "main" character with Rose. Just bizarre.
I did the same with watching TLJ right after TFA and they do NOT mesh well at all. Characters are way different... Snoke, Poe, & Finn are the most obvious. Snoke isn't that arrogant in TFA, and Poe really isn't a hot head at all? I also think Rey feels different...
They character changes could have worked if there was a time skip in between the two (like ANH & ESB), but there wasn't and it just feels weird and out of place.
Just careless writing if you ask me. Rian Johnson really dropped the ball.
Who said this was a "well written movie"? Did they form that opinion BEFORE they watched the movie?
Dissapointing mess..
Don’t even start me even my 8 year old niece hated it
Pretty upset my phone is charging and I can’t listen to this at work without headphones. Damn you apple.
But
*Things that were really stupid*
-Superman Leia in outer space
-Everything in the movie after the fight in the throne room/Kylo Rey talk in the elevator
-Marvel like humor in Star Wars
-Not enough Aliens.
-Fuck.
Chuck Buskee the movie was atrocious anyway you slice it. That fight scene was also stupid IMO. When we first see Luke he tells Rey “what did you expect that I take out an entire army with a star sword?”
And honestly. By the time Luke had his resolve-yes that was exactly what I was expecting him to do. Roll up, and prove why he is the “greatest” Jedi/force user to ever exist and do just that.
Would’ve been EPIC to see him stall for the resistance escape. Geekdom notice this.
SSJ Star Killer Luke Skywalker destroyed an entire freaking AT-AT with just a harpoon gun, a lightsaber, and a hand grenade. After the freaking AT-AT had shot him down and killed his own tailgunner! At least he came up with unorthodox ways to get things done in the original trilogy.
Apple and Disney sux. Possibly to each other.
why did you buy an apple product in the first place lol
Stona Raptor this was years ago....sorry😔😞
Tried watching it again after borrowing it from a friend. I couldn’t finish it, Think I made it to about a 45 minute mark before I just couldn’t continue anymore.
This movie sucks and for me is the worst star wars movie ever, the prequels never ruined luke skywalker or had no Mary sue Rey and made me feel like Star wars was completely ruined after watching one of there movies, TLJ sucks worst movie ever!!!!
D, you are a glutton for punishment, I wouldn't even give it a second shot, it was that bad.
Titan Of Titans same
Have to agree. Have absolutely no desire for even a second viewing. The first one was bad enough
SJW'S ruined this franchise
Agreed, Liberals make me sick
social justice warriors are just a part of it, its bad directing and lazy scripts aswell.
Please, for the love of God, stop trying to shoehorn your partisan fucking political beliefs into a discussion where they are not asked for.
Feel free to criticize any individual aspect of the film or any portrayal of a particular character and why you believe the director chose to portray them in that manner.
However, I KNOW you're not using the term "SJW" here indiscriminately. The term means "social justice warrior," and you should logically be able to infer that individuals on both ends of the political spectrum could be SJW's. In the same way that left-leaning individuals may advocate for certain policies such as affirmative action with the intent of enacting social justice, the same could be said of traditional conservatives that have frequently attempted to censor media outlets or indiscriminately insert religious symbolism and doctrines into the law. Each of them is trying to enact their own brand of "social justice."
However, that's not what you mean. When you say SJW, what you really mean is "liberal," "democrat," "socialist," or really just any term synonymous with left-leaning views or political affiliations.
You probably think that you're unbiased and bipartisan, but that is far from the truth. You're just looking for elements in media that defy your preconceived view points and equating those elements with indiscriminate evidence of the negative impact of the opposition.
Oh, and before you misunderstand me: I am not defending this film in anyway. I actually fucking hate the film and think it did a lot wrong. I would even go as far as to say that the film is contrary to ideas and themes of equity between individuals of varying races and genders. Particularly, I think that the film portrays several of the women as incompetent and emotionally driven, simply adhering to blatantly sexist stereotypes.
I merely want you to separate your preconceived and generalized political ideology from your criticisms of this movie and its varying elements. Think for yourself instead of repeating the same mumbled garbage you hear in your tiny echo-chamber. Articulate what you specifically hate about this film instead of just blaming everything that's wrong with it on your political enemies.
Why can't SJWs accept criticism over their values being pushed to the detriment of a story? I mean y'all reserve the right to criticize everyone else sooo....
Hustle Tha GOD you right
My gosh I'm so glad you have the balls to bash this movie. I hate this movie so much. It's the only star wars film I don't own.
Yes yes. Let the Hate flow through you. I can use every ounce of your rage.
I kinda forgot about how irritating all the humour, plot holes, Holdo
and Rose can be when you see it a second time. And seeing Luke broken like that is something you never really get used to either.
it really sucked
Bad story, bad editing built on a weak foundation from TFA. I used to think George Lucas writing was bad. Did I mention the REALLY bad writing. Looks okay tho, I guess. Oh and NO, I don't want George back either, I think he purposely sabotaged the franchise when he put Kathy in charge. The problem is clearly at the top, constant mistake after mistake.
Yeah he’s making Jar-Jar level mistakes
But thats George. Thats his style! ITS HIS CREATION! He can do whatever he feels like and like it or not, he did good. He created a massive universe and now we are angry that whole thing got somehow betrayed, which kinda proves it.
Who is the audience to think somehow the artist should no longer form part of his art? Thats pretty fucked up. Thats just fucking wrong. That same line of thinking is what produced this film in the first place: Disney thinking they could do something better than what Lucas did. Its not going to happen. And this is the proof, this movie is utterly shit.
In a nutshell, The Last Jedi is the Batman v Superman of the Star Wars franchise.
Both movies divisive, old fans hate/dislike it (but appreciate a few good elements), new fans love it, characters weren't the characters that we grew/watched/read. I can't bring myself to buy this on blu-ray
DammySensei Most new fans do not love TLJ. Audience score is a 47% currently, and exit polling data suggests roughly 15% loved it, as opposed to just liking. And that was before opinions were tainted by the well deserved backlash.
The movie just sucked.
LSandViper Killer it has good moments. Rey and Kylo against the Snoke's guards, the visuals, Luke (even tho it's not the Luke we all know) but, still a great performance by Mark Hamill and Yoda. It's just....man, just sigh.
I don't like divisive movies and director who are divisive (e.g. Zack Snyder). Never liked his previous work before DC and he managed to split the fandom in two, with just two movies...it's crazy
And that's perfectly fine, if you love TLJ, I'm glad. It's just for fans of the original trilogy see this Star Wars movie as not a SW movies. So many things were just bad. And who the hell knows what Ep IX is going to be about/end?
I'm not gonna entirely blame JJ Abrams if he kinda fucks up with Ep 9. Rian Johnson ultimately made TLJ an isolated movie. He ignored elements of TFA and decide to just do his OWN movie and ignore what's needs to happen (wrap things up) for the final movie. Again, if you love TLJ, I'm happy for ya. It's just not a lot of people like it.
DammySensei The movie has solid cinematography and score. I’d argue that Rey/Kylo versus the Praetorian Guard wasn’t good at all. Choreography out of an off-Broadway play and the single worst set of the movie.
Go watch the Duel of Fates scene from ROTS for an example of a well choreographed fight scene. In fact, watch then back to back, it really highlights Rian’s ineptitude when it comes to melee combat scenes.
Except that superman v batman was a bad movie cause of the Warner brothers edit while last jedi was just trash
I can't believe you watched that trash 7 times. I knew it was bad the first time I saw it.
Basically, The First Order in The Force Awakens are the Nazis from Saving Private Ryan, and the First Order in The Last Jedi are the Nazis from Hogan's Heroes.
MonkeyDespot Don't insult Colonel Klink. Klink at least could recognized when opportunity unity knocked. Opportunity barged into Snokes room and spat in his face and he didn't notice. Episode one anakin is a more competent villain.
You are right. I owe a sincere apology to Werner Klemperer.
Disney killed starwars it’s dead
True
Star Wars has been trash since Disney took over the franchise. Save us George Lucas. You’re our only hope!
I used to follow the movie critics but for some reason I lost respect on a lot of them because they all liked the movie, I mean movies are subjective but I could not understand ( considering how many Star Wars fans are in the critic business like in collider ) that all of them liked it.
Edwin Garcia that's cause critics are politically correct now they can't rate bad a movie with a female lead or any upcoming Disney film
I stopped noticing them once they started reviewing the politics of the movies instead of there narrative.
Collider likes getting invited to the premieres too much.
1. Critics like things that surprise them (hence all the praise for "subversion") 2. Lot of critics have just become shills. Just see how many of them ever give negative reviews to any big budget film. 3. Political messaging is now seen as a stand-in for quality storytelling.
I instantly knew I'd hate the entire the movie the moment they made a your momma joke
Yeah that was the first sign of trouble. When that happened, I cringed and said wtf.
Yea that was the moment that it lost me and it never got me back that was a long as fuck 2 hours and 10 minutes of constant groaning
I really hope mark Hamill kills ruin Johnson will a lightsaber
I think there's a logical way to bring Luke back alive without undoing what the Last Jedi established. So hear me out guys. Have Episode 9 take place a few years after the Last Jedi. Then establish that the First Order has practically won the war against the Rebellion despite their new found hope. And Rey as revealed in the novels only improves at rapid rates when touched by a living force user so if they reveal that she hasn't been able to battle Kylo Ren in years then she wouldn't be able to evolve as quickly as before. Which allows it to be revealed that without that advantage she actually sucks at learning out to channel the Force. So all that's left is to have the Force Ghosts tell her about the World Between Worlds from the Star Wars Rebels cartoon. She can then journey their and use its ability to travel through time to bring Luke from Episode 8 moments after Yoda restored his faith in the Jedi to the current Episode 9 day. Now with Luke by her side they can join the Rebellion together and battle the First Order together. And since J.J. Abrams likes big twists here would be the big twist of the movie. Snoke is actually still alive living on inside Kylo Ren. Because Snoke wanted Ben to kill him so he could steal his body and thus be young and all powerful. Luke would have to manipulate the Force to destroy the very essence of Snoke and Rey would have to use their own connection to bring back Ben. With the day saved and the war shifting. Rey would take Luke back to his time period where the movie would end with him going up to sit on the rock and ready himself to create his Force Projection. That's how I would honestly do Episode 9 because I think done that way it could allow almost everyone to get what they want.
JAYLON NEELY thank you!
Nope, the SW is destroyed cause the force makes no sense anymore, now it is just another superhero movie
Ben Solo I don't think Star Wars is dead just damaged. And they're is still time to save it. The question though is will Disney save it.
They didn't accept the backslash. They will double down cause that is what they have done till now. The division is toxic cause right now hollywood is involved in gender war and all the established franchises are paying the price.
Ben Solo I don't think you're entirely wrong and that's why I don't think necessarily my idea would even be considered by the likes of J.J and Kathleen Kennedy if I presented it them.
Snoke: "I love, Goooooold."
I watched it four times.
After the first, I was confused.
After the second, I was upset.
After the third, I was angry.
After the fourth, I didn't care about anything anymore.
Hell no, I didn't buy tickets.
As a fan of this franchise I watched again as well. I’ve seen enough movies in my lifetime though to recognize a very flawed movie. The Last Jedi is a very flawed movie. If Star Wars was a new thing, this movie wouldn’t be getting the pass it’s getting from fans. Also, I think that there is a reason why there is no Celebration this year. They knew how divisive this movie was going to be.
Geekdom, dude, EIGHT TIMES? Stop torturing yourself man, I don't wanna see you get hurt.
I actually have watched people around me, who liked it at first, change their minds as time has gone forward.
Titan Of Titans sheeple
It's a shame to consider this as a star wars movie or a movie at all
Episode 7 was actually much more poorly written then I originally thought. I don't mind hating on it now since the movie serves no purpose after the dumpster fire that is the Last Jedi... sure the original trilogy and even the prequels had their flaws but what they did right far outweighed the negatives, that's the difference. Not so with this sequel trilogy, there is just no heart to them. As much as I did not want to believe it, they ARE absolutely rushed cash crabs and nothing more, who's ever shoulders that fault may lie upon be it Lucasfilm or Disney
ua-cam.com/video/wAOuSMsnsV4/v-deo.html
Brian Kovach well EP 7 was relying on ep8 to be great. But now. Retroactive, ep8 made Ep7 look bad
Yeah, it is the Matrix Reloaded Effect: when you rely on the next film to fill in your narrative and the next film sucks, your film suffers greatly for it.
I’m so glad you mentioned Finn’s arc and how dumb it is. And how contradictory this movie is, Finn was still a coward despite Force Awakens. Anyone can use the force, despite there being so many races of Jedi that weren’t Skywalkers.
Finn doesn't even have much of an arc. He decides to stay with the resistance independent of Rey I guess... but Finn shifting from fighting for Rey to fighting for the resistance is barely different, and it's not even as impactful.
Exactly. Nothing really changed.
S31KOU how can someone change in a span of a week after the events of episode 7. This film should have had a time skip.
I agree
I agree with Danny, boycott until Kathleen Kennedy is gone.
The thing I hated most was there was no passage of time between the two films, and instead the story picks immediately with the first scene of Luke and Rey being where we left off in Force Awakens. The rule I feel is with these films is there should always be a gap of several months or years between their settings to allow for development in the story and the on going conflict that can be filled in later by novels, comics or even tv shows like the Clone Wars series.I feel what should have happened is time has passed and the First Order has furthered its dominion over the galaxy, due to the absence of the Republic. The Resistance meanwhile would have relocated to another world, following their exposure and their base destroyed by the Dreadnought. are again discovered and caught in the middle of the evacuation.With the reappearance of the Dreadnought, Poe would now have motive for wanting to destroyed it and why he would defy Leia. As for Rey, she could have woken up in one of the stone huts, and her encounter with Luke and getting him to train her could have been shown in flash backs to account for he time on the island.Also, I have to disagree in regards to Chewie doing nothing, which I feel he did.
I wouldn't even pirate this film, I hate it so much!
7:30 he also saw no plan from Holdo except to just stay the course, which is why he felt a mutiny was necessary. Even after he executed his plan, she could have said "by the way, this is what I've been planning on" and he would have realized what's really going on.
Poe did absolutely nothing wrong. It was a good call to take out the dreadnaught. It just sucks that their bombers were so slow and fragile.
It was good to ask those in authority for a plan, especially since he was their best pilot. But he was given nothing to work with, and did his best to save the Rebellion.
Chaotic storytelling at best. Johnson is a failure
You misunderstood Finn’s arc in the Force Awakens. In this movie he only learns to protect what he is attached to, which at this point is Rey. He didn’t wanted to « do the right thing », he said himself to Han that his only goal was to save Rey. In the beginning of The Last Jedi, he still wants to protect Rey, but learns to fight for a more noble cause.
Why would you watch a movie you hated 8 times? If you truly hated it wouldnt you stop after the second viewing?
He clearly said in the video that he doesn't legitimately hate the movie. He just dislikes it.
Tenryuunaito Listen to 1:04-1:07 again and even the whole first two minutes in general. He says hate multiple times, I'm not making that up. And even if he "disliked" it, does that validate 8 viewings?
Churro Art it doesn't take 8 watches to tell if you like it better on subsequent viewings lol
Churro Art give me a break. There is no justification for wasting your time on a movie that you clearly don't like. I can understand 2-4 repeat viewings. But 8?! C'mon now. Don't give the generic "everybody's different". That's weak
It’s like, What were you thinking?
Thanks WorldofGeekdom, I share the same thoughts as you buddy. Us fanboys can't get everything we want when it comes to these movies. But through and through this movie, and the people working on it, didn't seem to know where they even wanted it to go. Characters, story arcs, underlying themes. I'm all for shaking up the norm but I don't agree with the way they did it not necessarily what they did.
TLJ was a Red Wedding to me.
I agree with everything you said however I felt one big thing missing from this film was Han Solo. I know Harrison Ford was happy he got killed off but it just felt weird to have Leia, Luke and chewie but not Han Solo. Is it just me that felt that way?
WhovianFan2003 you aren't alone. I don't even understand how he DOESN'T EVEN GET A FUNERAL? He was a general for the new republic FFS. "The rebels aka resistance didn't have time, they had to run". This is the issue, people don't even want the movie to slow down...
Disney has killed Star Wars.
@BK Beatty yeah I completely agree
When i saw it thr first time i didnt like it but like you i watched TFA and TLJ back to back and I instantly hated it
They did Luke so dirty in these movies man
I personally think the Last Jedi at its core never really had a chance just because the movie would have had a much better opportunity for the development of the characters if there was some sort of time skip in between movies.
It would have been more free, but I still think a creative person should've been able to make something great, even with all the restrictions imposed by TFA.
And why couldn't it?
I mean seriously... tell me how they were unable to skip 3 years ahead and have Luke and Rey spend training on the island all that time.
There was nothing "forced" by TFA.
Hassat Hunter
Well... most people wanted a resolution to the last scene of TFA, so skipping ahead would've been tough... but at this point, skipping the resolution of that scene would've been better than what Johnson did.
Worldofgeekdom, I agree with some of the things you mentioned but I disagree with the Poe analogy and here's why. I do think his character changed by the end of the movie. Poe was a "let's fight no matter what" "triggerhappy" kind of character and he was indeed a good leader for battle but he learned by the end of the movie that there's moments that a battle is needed but there's also moments where it's necessary to escape. Leia noticed that he had potential but needed some molding in order to become a better leader. When he tells Leia by the end of the movie that Luke was causing a distraction for them to escape, she looked at him with admiration. She have him the "Now you have understood and learned that we can't fight everytime and put the teams life in jeopardy" kind of look. Poe Dameron had learned from his mistakes.
Except he made like 0 mistakes in the entire movie and if the dreadnaught lived they would have instantly died rather than got a slow space chase.
I watched it again at home, months later. Away from its OVERHYPED nature and NEGATIVE Stigma. And it was a decent action movie. At its best.
Your tolerance level is amazing. Still sucks to me.
Decent isn't good enough for a franchise like Star Wars.
Honestly, it barely scores higher than Transformers: Dark of the Moon for me. Only the technical stuff (camera, acting, visuals, sounds,) are better. But the story.... nah pretty much just as incomprehensible.
How is it a decent action movie? Did the slow paced battleship chase thrill you? Did you enjoy the fight between a human and a ghost? Did you feel a connection with a hero that is already perfect and has no "journey" whatsoever? Which part of it was decent? Even if you have never seen a Star Wars movie before, THE MOVIE SUCKS.
Dragon Ball Black The one good action sequence in the film was the throne room fight. Everything else was just average or mediocre.
Thank God you realised that Rian Edgelord Johnson repeated all of the characters arcs from the first film.
My little brother thinks this is the best Star Wars movie.
Kids nowadays😔
The Headbanger Sugar mine too. :’(
Tbh Rey’s character could have been amazingly done, bc her concept could have been (even though I hated the fact she was no one) it’s not about who any1 is or how legendary they are it’s how they got to that point is wat matters but noooooooooooooo the writers had to kill the Rey reveal and kill any character plot or explanation that could possibly make a good save over that decision
I can't understand why anyone can like this film. Kylo Ren's entire character alone, ruins this trilogy beyond repair, given that he's not sympathetic at all despite the tone of both TFA and TLJ, and generally none of his motivations make any sense. Yet both people who like and hate the film will say he's the best character. I guess some development is better than no development, but in the end the movie makes it abundantly clear Snoke had nothing to do with Kylo's turning when he killed all the other Jedi unjustifiably, yep right after what Luke did Kylo kills everyone else in the Jedi temple for no reason and yet even with Snoke's influence he kills his own father, hesitates to kill his own mother(but almost does it) just to kill Snoke to save a random girl he's known for what, a couple days maybe? A week?
Proving once and for all Snoke had little influence on him since all it took for him to kill Snoke was a few mean comments. So we have Vader who kills the emperor to save his son and Kylo who kills Snoke all because he made fun of him. Bravo Ryan Johnson, oh but it gets worse, then at the end battle scene he hates his father's ship for seemingly no reason. You can talk about themes of destroying the past all you want, but hating a ship because your Uncle (who's spent relatively little time in it anyway) tried to kill you? No, that be like me burning my grandmother's house to the ground out of anger because my dad abused me. Themes don't work if the character's motivations have no rhyme or reason.
These are not the motivations of a normal person, these are the actions of someone who's mentally insane. Granted if his character was always meant to be known as a mentally ill person, that's one thing, but both movies suggests he's a victim of circumstance and I say no. You don't get to inadvertently kill half the galaxy and claim *YOU'RE* the victim. At least with Anakin he had clear influence by Palpatine and everything he did no matter how cruel was to save the life of his wife after losing his mother. And even as Darth Vader, he's a character who stays on the dark side out of shame and gives it up to save his son. Say what you want about Anakin and the prequels, but at least I can understand Anakin's actions and motivations. Anakin hating the Jedi order is a little unorthodox, but everything else is clear with how this character was brought up.
Not Kylo, he's just a whiny emo manchild who makes life altering decisions for nonexistent reasons, and is in no way sympathetic. And even though I won't absolutely *KNOW* what will happen in ep9 I can honestly say it can only go one of three ways at this point 1) Kylo sees the light, becomes good, and is forgiven for killing millions unjustifiably, 2) Same as one with the added bonus he dies in the end, which would make it a copy and paste of Return of the Jedi in a trilogy too similar to the original trilogy anyway 3) Kylo stays evil and dies, making the first two movies setting him up as the tragic anti hero virtually pointless. And in all honesty *I* *HOPE* *I'M* *WRONG* I don't want a bad Star Wars movie, but I can no longer generate hype for this series.
wlfmanjack I think it is clear. There are several people out there who don't care about the story itself, they just want to be entertained or use the occasion for dating, having "fun" with friends etc. They don't care about the movie itself. Now note that this is not necessarily bad. These are casual movie watchers. If you really just shut your brain off, and check the production value, entertainment value, both movies do a good job at this.
It is not just Kylo who doesn't make sense, but you can say it to almost every characters in TFA/TLJ. Actually almost every action or scene in this movie makes no sense.
TFA and TLJ feel like they have no continuity as if TLJ was like an alternate universe version of events.
All the build up of Rey’s lineage meaning something in TFA...scraped
Any development for Snoke and the “completion” of Kylo’s training...nope
How did Maz get Luke’s/Anakin’s lightsaber...ehh who cares?
All the tension of the final scene of TFA of Rey handing Luke his lightsaber back...ruined.
Luke...I won’t even start because that’s an essay all on its own on how badly handled his character was.
One of the weakest things about TLJ is that we are supposed to believe the events that take place in the film happen within days of the end TFA. Which again is almost essay worthy on how it doesn’t fit or make sense given the narrative (using that term lightly) we are given TLJ.
What do we really have to look forward to in Ep.IX? Other than seeing what JJ comes up with to try and salvage the trilogy? Not much...Rey and Kylo have a lightsaber duel for the fate of the galaxy. I won’t be holding my breath.
I see a lot of youtubes dislike it saying, I can see why other people may like it, but still to this day I can't see anything to like in the movie and not one person who likes it has given real reason why they do.
Comical that people rank it as their Number 1 Star Wars movie.
But is it really up to them to convince you? If they like it, they like it. They don't need to justify it, nor do you have to justify your dislike for it. Film is subjective, thus different opinions.
The Last Jedi was a good movie if you do not care about plot holes, storytelling, pacing, character arts, continuity, source material and everything else that made Star Wars great. This film lacks the very foundation that made Star Wars what it is and as long as they give us good special effects and call it Star Wars then apparently that's good enough for a lot of people who refer to themselves as fans of the genre.
How are you still so upset about The Last Jedi. But continue to support and not call out Dragonball Super.
Coach Chris Because..... Brace yourself.... Dremel super is not as bad as the Last Jedi.
Does that burn?
Coach Chris EXACTLY!! They're the exact same thing!!
The problem with that kind of analysis of character development and their motivations is that it doesn't work when you try to summarize each of them in one sentence.
It makes the movie harder to digest for most people (clearly), but it's also the reason why I fell in love with The Last Jedi in a way I didn't expect was possible in the Star Wars franchise.
I admit I got a little prepared before watching the movie, swimming on waves of hype. Johnson stated that he was heavily inspired by classic war movies, mentioning Bridge on the river Kwai among others. I'm point at this one specifically because it became my main reference point. I watched it for the first time shortly before the release of TLJ and madly fell in love with it. Bridge on the river Kwai is a lengthy story set in a very claustrophobic setting, filled with unexpected turns regarding character development and shifting perspectives about what it means to be a good person and a war hero.
I hope it sounds familiar. Because I was amazed at how similar in spirit these movies are.
They both focus on ambiguous morality during war and that there is rarely a simple answer in a situation where killing people is involved. That's a problem every character faces at some point of the movie, and they struggle finding a solution, each of them trying to make sense of this madness.
I could start listing examples at this point, but it's a youtube comment section... which means I've wasted enough time already ;)
Oh, and I love that Hux is a joke not involved in any of the complex stuff I just wrote about. He's a space neo-nazi - he should be ridiculous. And because of that, he's unpredictably dangerous - notice how he looks at Kylo at the end of the movie - love it!
When I saw the thumbnail I thought. "The Force Awakens still sucks as well."
Both are crap, Last Jedi is a little worse.
Force awakens was great my second fav Star Wars film. If only j.j directed the last Jedi. It would have been a completely different film a better film.
What I wanted to happen:
-Rey and Kylo are related
-Kylo never removes the mask
-Knights of Ren show up
-Snoke convinces Rey to jump over to the dark side to set up Episode 9 and is revealed to be Darth Plagieus reincarnate
-Finn is shown to be sensitive with the force as well
-The First Order is revealed to have 3 more planets built as Starkiller bases
-Leia dies (out of respect to Fisher’s character, please no CGI) and Luke reunited with her before death
... that would of been awesome... NOPE WE GOT THIS SHIT SHOW
Agreed, the Director ruined it.
when the opening crawl happened I was smiling excited, thinking this is going to be great , then the smiles turned to boredom, the frowning begun, I left disappointed,
Hux and Snoke weren't the only character that felt like different characters don't forget about Greavious
Lets be honest the prequals are better than these latest movies
But is it that good Succ?
Nah man its the scrapey shitty cant go all the way down kind
11:30 I didn't pick up on this before, but now that I think about it, you're right. Snoke in TFA was like a father figure that Kylo Ren and General Hux were competing for attention from. They obviously respected, revered, and feared him, but they were also comfortable enough going up to his hologram to ask for things or to explain things to him, even in moments of weakness (like when Kylo failed to interrogate Rey).
In TLJ, he was just the villain that all the other villains were scared of, and that was about it.
I don't even watch star wars🤣
Aunt Jemima The OT is alright as an epic fantasy.
Lockjaw sorry I'm a noob what's ot? 😂
Same. I want to start but idk where to begin
Lee Smoove 4, 5, 6, 1, 2, 3 otherwise you'll see effect and then see physical models it becomes underwhelming
I don't watch them anymore either thanks Ryan Johnson
Can we also acknowledge the horrible job they did naming new characters? Lucas gave us Luke Skywalker, Princess Leia Organa, Han Solo and Darth Vader. JJ gave us Rey, Finn, Poe and Hux.
I've never watched a star wars movie, can someone explain to me why people hate this movie so much??(I'm just interested in.knowing)
Let's just say, to keep things short, bad writing in general, lack of tension in an overpowered main character and lack of powerful villain, and characters making really illogical decisions
Cars Part 2. Lol its like that. But worse.
We don't all hate it. I love that the two strongest force users on opposite sides have a connection and an attraction to each other, and I can't wait to see what comes of that in Episode 9.
Sybille Stahl you like Twilight too I am guessing?
Imagine a Dragon Ball sequel where you learn that Goku doesn't want to teach Uub because he thinks that fighting is bad but it doesn't matter because Uub has Ultra Instinct by birth. Trunks has turned evil and he has a master who is... someone... not specified... doesn't really matter... someone strong. Vegeta dies by the hand of Trunks but Goku doesn't seem to care that much. At the same time, Gohan and Goten are helping 17 save innocent animals and don't really contribute anything to the story, Bulma is in a coma and Piccolo is dead. As for Krillin and 18, they are fighting in what appears to be a video game somewhere in the universe.
The arc begins with Trunks chasing the Z fighters and it ends with... well... Trunks chasing the Z fighters!
Even if I loved the most of JJ tv series... when the Force Awakens was released for me was ONLY an "ok movie", a SAFE approach for a new Star Wars trilogy, same like the Star Trek trilogy , but nevertheless A STAR WARS movie, When The Last Jedi was released, I went one time and that one time was ENOUGH, I went out EMPTY inside. The feeling that I had was THAT is not a STAR WARS movie, only an "ok action movie with no character at all" THATS IT. The rest of 3 times I watched it from pirate sites with friends everytime and everytime I was more mad then the other. More more more. This drove me to think that, THIS WAS their plan all along: make a first movie copy of the first Star Wars, SAFE movie and then SUBVERT expectation in the second movie, effectively DESTROY old characters and old trilogy only to make their (Di$ney) imprint on the Trilogy, making TRUELY THEIR MOVIE. Because lets face it, it was NEVER their movie, they only bought it from George, the STORY was George's, even after they bought it anybody was talking about George Star Wars, not about Di$ney Star Wars. That is why they didn't let J J make all 3 movies, they bring for the second movie a nobody to destroy, a YES man, a guy that wasn't EVEN qualified to make a STAR WARS, with movies like Brick , Brothers Bloom, Looper and 3 episodes of Breaking Bad, Ruin Johnson was NEVER EVER QUALIFIED for this kind of MOVIE, he was hired only to destroy the old characters and story, to subvert the expectations, HE IS a nobody, a nobody director, he wants to be known, NOW with this publicity, HE WILL GET more and more contracts because he done Star Wars, ANYBODY speaks about Ruin Johnson now, any publicity is good publicity, a guy like this, doesn't EVEN like Star Wars and I'm 100% sure about this. LOOK at his face when he laugh over Mark Hamill, it's Rumpelstiltskin all over.... if THAT is a GUY that loves STAR WARS, I cut my most important member of my body. :)
I saw Ep. 7 9 times in theatres alone and loved it more every time, I could barely stand seeing Last Jedi 4 times and hated it more each time :/
You know what I don't do with movies I hate? See them 3 more times.
Is there part of the first sentence missing? It begins "So I watched STLJ again ...". That's not right.
'I was curious so I watched STLJ again ...' or 'I was bored so I watched STLJ again ...' (etc) work fine. What is the missing part of your opening sentence?!
Please don't say that you DELIBERATELY started the sentence with "so". That would be SO irritating!
I did the same and yeah.......i still feel we got count dukued
Star Wars: A New Hope(now), not only was almost not made, but was also made as a stand alone. When it hit theaters, it was like finding a unicorn in the woods by mistake.
It was beautiful. Majestic, even.
Then Big Corp got a hold of it. They chained it down, cut off its horn, underfed it, painted it 15 different colors, over rode it, killed it, sold it, and ran it through a meat grinder.
Now it's just a blood-soggy burlap sack, with a horn sticking out of the top, like a birthday candle, and the words 'star wars' written on it with a crayon.
I feel your pain.
I still hate it to
I was hoping it grew on me too but it didnt........It sucks for so many reasons Im tired of talking about it. When the next one comes out it will be the 1st time since Ive become a star wars junky that I dont go see it on opening night in theaters, instead I will wait for the blueray, I dont care how many spoilers I hear about before I get the next one on BluRay after seeing this movie there is no conceivable way you can turn it around and actually make the story good. The most significant characters said and did so many things that were outside of who they were they stripped the essence away from the story,. I havent turned on my lightsaber collection in months. On the wall collecting dust......horrible
Having watched THE ENTIRE SERIES IN A FUCKING WEEKEND for the first time. Knowing the history and that the original trilogy were technically the first movies and having seen episode four before. I had the ability to look at the whole story from beginning to end.
I'm also not a die-hard starwars fan. I like it but I'm not going to get my ass chapped over it.
This last movie honestly was a damn good movie. It was witty (needed to be like 45 mins shorter. The character of Luke Skywalker underwent massive character development. He had a split second judgement WHICH HE DIDNT GO THROUGH WITH that cost him dearly. He grieved and hid like someone would have in the situation and took books as concrete facts. My god it's like people don't want character development. Luke Skywalker basically admitted himself in the scene with Yoda that he's not perfect and never was.
I respect you're opinion in that was wasn't the best movie but I think it was a good set up to the next movie that I'll probably enjoy and everyone else will probably hate.
This type of viewer is the problem. Changing characters up for the sake of changing them up does not equal "Character DEVELOPMENT". If you transformed Batman into a homosexual sex worker at the start of the 3rd movie in the Dark Knight trilogy - would it mean Character Development? of course not. Luke didn't undergo character development. His character was deleted and replaced with someone else. Same goes to Han Solo, and to some extent even Leia thanks to the stupid "witty" and "humorous" tone of the last movie.
SSJ1Igor when have you written anything in you're life? You probably don't know character development from moonshine. Your reply is actually generic as it is laughable
MemeSSJG- no, his reply was completely spot-on.
You may have enjoyed the movie for some inexplicable reason, but it was not a good movie by any metric save cinematography and score. Hey, I like several bad movies, that still doesn’t make them objectively good.
MemeSSJG I mean guys like you dont keep the merchandise from tanking or giving TLJ another record which mysteriously likes to go un mentioned
I saw it for the second time the other night cause my wife hadn't seen it yet. She hated it as well, and it didn't get any better after a second viewing. I think I will stop at 2 and not bother to ever watch it again.
TLJ did do one good thing for me. I now feel no want or desire to see another Disney Wars film ever again.
I'm holding onto the hope that JJ Abrams can save this dumpster-fire trilogy with Ep 9
Have you seen the end to Lost?
Just saying...
Unfortunately JJ only has a talent for setting up plots and intrigue (his "mystery box" tactic). He has proven multiple times he has no talent for resolving them in a satisfactory manner.
JJ scam-rams? They guy who gave C-3PO a red arm in the Force Awakens as some kind of “teaser” of some important plot point? The guy who applied his signature “let’s make a lazy reboot” style to the force awakens despite how little sense it makes for the star wars saga? “Hey guys, you know where the trilogy begins after the event of Return of the Jedi? Right where it started in a New Hope of course!” Yep, the Jedi didn’t return after all, the dark side wasn’t defeated after all, the Republic wasn’t well-established, and the new empire virtually assumed power already. Gee, I wonder if any of these hugely significant events merit having their story told... Nah! Let’s just rehash a New Hope, tease a bunch of important events of the past, then force the next movie to explain the past while simultaneously telling its own narrative in the future.
Anthony Yousif like hell i’m paying for it though
NOTHING can save this piece of shit trilogy. And yet, its only the beginning for the cash-grabbing garbage that is Disney.
There's only one way to salvage the franchise.
Episode IX opening scene: Jedi Academy on Yavin IV
Mara Jade: "Luke wake up! what's wrong?"
Luke: "There's a great disturbance in the force. I had a nightmare that felt extremely real. Like I was there living it. I was trapped on an Island dressed as a homeless person. I thought my name was Jake and I did unspeakable things to a weird alien seal. Han had only one child who had fallen to the dark side and killed him"
Mara Jade: "I don't sense anything. It was only a bad dream. come one get dressed Han and Leia are flying in from Coruscant today. They will be here in a few hours"
In Empire, Luke stays on Dagobah far longer than Han and Leia were in the chase with the Empire and on the cloud city.
Update:
Still absolute trash.
You already knew this...
So wait. You brought up the pointlessness of the subplot to disable the first order's trackers since they were sold out; but how did the guy know what they were doing to sell them out? I think you said from Poe, but he didn't know. I only watched it once, but as far as I remember he didn't interact with anyone who had any idea what the actual plan was, but somehow sold them out anyway.
Even though I may not agree with everything you’ve said, I’m happy to finally see someone who is ACTUALLY EXPLAINING his problem with the film instead of just repeating “Disney ruined Star Wars” or “Rian Johnson sucks”. I still liked the film, but I’m glad to see someone also acknowledge the good and the bad the film and not just the bad. I actually enjoyed listening to your point of you. You definitely know your stuff.