I feel that wind is as important as hills in factoring motor size. I live in a place that has significant wind. The effort and power I need to overtake the added wind is significant
Exactly right. Wind is huge with or without a motor. For that reason I chose a BBSHD on a roadbike. No regrets. I use maximum power mostly if trying to ride fast into a stiff headwind.
"That quite alright, Robin, my boy" To the Bat cave to get into your camera settings and raise or reduce (experiment in the lack of a manual) the I.S.O. setting by a few points at a time. I.S.O is the sensitivity the camera sensor has to ambient light. It depends on the make of camera but usually a slightly lower I.S.O. will make the camera adjust less to low light situations (like sitting in the shade of the ol' oak tree) preventing it from becoming washed out.
My Bafang 350w geared rear hub motor, with a 36V battery, is all the power I would want. I'm 6'-3" and 205 lbs, so I still get a decent workout when climbing hills. I actually find myself doing way more hill riding now because it's so much fun! I've ridden ebikes with 500w and 750w motors and I barely break a sweat with those. So, if you still want to get a decent workout, don't go for anything more than 350w
@@alozborne i found a 350w bafang rear hub e-bike conversion kit that's near me, do you mind if i ask some questions? 1. 25mph is the pedal assist mode or that's its full throttle? 2. i'm 5'2, ~145lbs, i can cycling 25mph myself, so would the pedal assist help me surpass that speed or 25mph is its cap? 3. how big is your 36V battery? how far have you tested it? thanks in advance.
For me, I like having a more powerful motor, even though I rarely use the power. I usually have it set up in a motor that gives me about 200 W. That gives me all the power I need except for with a very strong headwind or a big hill. But I like having the powerpower when I need it.
I have been riding my ebike for 12yrs. Bought a 500w 48v kit on ebay for $600 back then. This bike has near 35,000 miles on it. It is a $450 Trek bike. Does 25mph, Still going. Mags
My 1000w 52v 20ah cheapy chinese kit on a 98 Giant Rincon Hardtail has been kickin' it for 4 years now.. I won't even put a freaking 250w sticker on anything I own.. Can't even burn toast w/that... pfffft.. I get 30mph cheap. Build your own. I'll never get anything less powerful than this. ever. 750w is childs play.. I'm sorry.
Danstaafl I have to agree. I had the geoorbital wheel for close to 5 yrs, and that was a 500W motor. Then I bought a 1200W rear hub. The difference is night and day. I would never go less than 1200W. You can carry lumber on a steep uphill, without that motor breaking a sweat.
My city is very similar, I live on the urban area only 15min car ride from town and fucking hills everywhere just wondering like but what bike do you use for this?
Thanks for this very informative video! In 6 minutes, I learned all the information I was searching for about motor capacity vs. expected performance. I'm preparing for my first eBike build and also planning an eMotorcycle conversion of my Honda CT90.
I still have my bionx d 500 equipped ebike and I’m over 200 lbs and i use pedal assist and it still gets me up some hills fairly easily. Too bad they went out of business. Great video and information as always Micah
My BMS failed on my Smart ebike and nobody can fix it .Would you remove the control board in the 350 wart hub motor and go with a new control and battery or would you spend thousands of dollars finding a new battery?
The battery voltage and power rating of the controller make a difference as well. I bought an ebike with a 24v 250w motor and a 350w controller, it was pants would it got to15mph on the flat in 30 seconds forget about going over bridges it just stopped without help from me. I upgraded the battery to 48v the controller to 800w and stuck a cycle analysist I there for good mesure, now I have a bike that can go 30mph and has great acceleration and hill climbing ability’s. If I creep to the uk leagal speed of 15mph then no matter how steep the hill is I can go up it at 15mph. At peak current draw the CA was measuring 1500w.
I didnt know that. So i can upgrade my bike and not change motor! Who knew! I wonder can i switch 1.75 tires to 4 inch tires. Its really the tires that bother me.
I’ve been using a 250W 36V DIY ebike for a year and I wouldn’t say I need more power for my daily commutes. As long as the battery is full, that is. Because as it gets weaker, so does the torque of the motor.
5 років тому+5
I also use a 250 w bike every day and I climb hills every day. I guess he is comparing them with motorcycles.
The more power thing isn't for top speed it's for acceleration. My ebike was bought as a 200w and I ran it for about 7 years. Then I decided to upgrade the hub motor to a 1500w. Yes the top speed is over double of what it was but you don't really go blasting along at max speed on the public highway. It's the acceleration & unassisted hill climbing that's awesome. It's like getting out of a Trabant and into ANY modern car. The difference is mind blowing.
@@0utcastAussie so you had a 200W hub motor and swapped it with a 1500W hub motor withOUT replacing the controller? That doesn't seem right for some reason...
@@ThanosSustainable Where did I say that I hadn't replaced the controller ? The controller comes with the hub motor along with ebike brake levers & throttle
I thought I would never ride another bicycle after my orthopedic surgery. 3 surgeries. My 500w Bafang motor in my Ecomotion Core E-Pro Fat tire bike allows me to get some exercise and at the same time look like I'm superman up hills when really I'm more of a Superbee with my legs moving but not required to kill myself peddling. This kind of saved my life in that way. Thanks for the great motivating videos.
Hey Micah, great video and very informative. I want to add a bit about wind resistance and cost. I am on a 3kW Cyclone ebike generator (800W) hybrid where generator is removable for different modes. Also, don't take this as me grand standing I just have a lot of time to test and think about this. I would say that 22 mph is the sweet spot for ebikes from a wind resistance and cost perspective. To get there you need 750-1000W motor. The reason why that is the sweet spot is wind resistance robs a lot of power and becomes to the 3rd power above 20mph and 750-1000W motors and batteries are relatively cheap compared to 1500W+ kits. I rarely ride at 3kW because it is so inefficient due to wind resistance and battery life. Of course if you have an unlimited budget just go buy at 72V 30ah+ battery and you can go at whatever speeds you want. Can't wait to see you on the Harley Livewire btw.
Building my firts ebike. 3000w MXUS v3 hub motor and 72v 30ah diy battery. To much hills where I live and need about 70 km range to get to work. Learnig a lot with you and your website. Thanks
How does your bike handle that much power? Wasn't sure if it could handle anymore im thinking of going 8KW hub drive the 15kw is probably gonna kill my bike lol. Also what size battery? And what's your top speed ?
@@danielziolkowski1027 Given the weight and size of 48V batteries (assuming he could even find a controller and wiring that could handle peak 291 Amps which I highly doubt), the range would be around 5 miles in the city at best. His bike would have to be built like a motorcycle to handle the torque.
@@danielziolkowski1027 check out Andy kirby videos he and vortecks are two excellent ebikers with more knowledge than most vortecks bike version 3 is crazy powerful he's started a site for info on builds etc link in his videos andys bikes are rapid powerful machines with informative videos look for their videos on here or check out cloudsto.com or kirby ebike these two guys are pretty much the best ebike build vlogers on UA-cam between those two guys you can't go wrong I believe they both use 72 volt 30ah there abouts batteries running 150 odd amps more than I can handle I've a 72 v mid drive running 90 amp turned down from 150 for safety reasons 😉
i have strong headwinds here up 17 -20 mph the majority of the time and kick in a slight hill 3 miles long and my Aluminum Royce Union does all it can ! yeah i'm looking at a 750 watt E-Bike to help me commute without getting all sweaty ..thanks for your intel.
Totally agree with 1000watts. I have a Bafang BBSHD here in the UK on a 20 speed light weight aluminium mountain bike I built myself. It has dual front chain rings at 38T / 48T and a rear cassette from 11T to 50T. That bike goes like stink up any hill and actually catches quite a bit of air in the process over steep fast climbs to jumps. (I'm 90 Kgs and running it with a 52 volt 20 amp battery ). Though I think the BBSHD is actually 1500watts, not so much 1000. Regardless, hella lotta fun!
A friend has converted his recumbent trike to an e-trike with a "Copenhagen Wheel". Wireless control using a phone app, and no external battery. Can you do a review and give us your opinions? Thanx..
One factor that is not often talked about for ebikes is the diameter of the wheels and how that affects top speed and hill climbing ability. Although you may be sacrificing some top speed, smaller wheels do not need as much wattage to achieve the same torque to the ground needed for hills. Ofc, gearing also plays a big factor in the case of mid-drives, but all things being equal aside from wheel size, i think this holds true.
Great video, thanks! I wish yuou had done it before I built my E-bike though. I went for a 1500W 48V setup out of fear of laking power, and I love it. But I could have sorvived with 750W or 1000W. Something to consider as well is, that with bigger motors come bigger bateries, and the wheight of the bike increases considerably. I started with a Hybrid bike (light montain bike) and now it feels like a tank
@@feedallday2556Yeah... I think the bike weight issue is something worth knowing for people thinking about an ebike conversion. LOVE my heavy bike though
Thanks for four vids! You have saved me untold dollars and hours of waisted time. I ride a BCA with a Bafang mid drive and a NB 8000watt rear hub. I'm running a ASI bac 800 72v and a 72v 150amp on the hub. The mid drive display is the NXT touch screen. I'm running two triangular 72v30amp hour batteries. Fast and dependable, both used together on low pedal assist gives me over 200 miles of range brakeing with the regen lever. Two independent drives always gets me home, and usually first across an intersection.
Ah great I have been asking a similar question. Tnx for that answer. Recently Japanese manaufacturers have agreed a spec for scooter/motorcycle batteries, do you know the Watts/amps/volts of these new batteries and when they will start to become available both wholesale and retail?
Sharing my own experience having 500w hub motor along w/ 48V, 12.5Ah Haybike battery. Since there was a statement in this video that 200 pounds rider barely can climb hills w/ 500w motor - I’ll say - I’m over 200 pounds and even using only 2nd power-assist pedaling level I’m able to climb very steep grade not only without problem but with acceleration. Using only $500 Haybike Race Max e-bike sold on amazon I have enough power and acceleration shifting only between 2 of the 3 available power-assisted pedaling levels. Never ever I needed 100% pure throttle in order tired already to ride my e-bike and just so you know I’m 75-yr of age senior. So discussing how much power one needs when choosing e-bike keep in mind this report and save your money in picking the right e-bike for your conditions. 😃
1:00 also different motors have different resistance in ohms, less ohms / les resistance means it's gonna have more power, the wheel size gonna affect the top speed and torque, and also weaker hub motors have gears inside, to increase torque which reduce top speed
Such a dedication and humility; taking time to develop a video just to satisfy your viewers queries is such a great thing. The explanation was satisfactory, keep the great work going. To greater knowledge.
agreed. I have a cheap 250W tdsz2 and steep inclines, even on gravel, lowest gear and highest assist level are really no issue. No I didn't measure the inclines but I know I would have thought twice before tackling them with a conventional bike. I think with e-bikes, people have developed unrealistic expectations.
@@ioandragulescu6063 I've since purchased a Giant Roam E+, so now I can speak with authority. I'm a big person, and it makes hill climbs an absolute breeze.
@@contentsdiffer5958 I'm using a 250w motor, that's the max legal size in my country. There are different countries on the planet. And yes, that 250w makes a massive difference for me, so my comment stands.
@@modut6258 In USA Roam E+ is rated at 50Nm and costs $2,700 believe it's even exchange rate for Euro. I'm 84 kilos. Doesn't mention max speed, but 25KPH is EU limit. Pondering buy bike here in USA and bringing it when I move to Spain in near future, but slowest bikes here are 32KPH, so I don't know if I'd be let in with it. Found 250w with 60Nm reduced from $2,600 to $2100 Co Op Cycles CTY e2.2
@@Borderman47 Tell me about it! When I lived in Spain my sister bought me an expensive jacket she got 1/2 price. She insured it for the full price and by the time I paid the tax at Correros, between shipping and taxes it was double. Wanted to put miles on bike so they wouldn't or would tax it lower.
I’m considering getting a surrey (4- or 6-person) and I want to instal a hub motor on the drivers side to make it pedal assist. Of course they are crazy heavy compared to a bike, so do I go 1500w?
Id go for it. Alot of passengers and more power is better. Im trying to get the governor off of my bike for more speed. And two batteries for you. Maybe two 52v?
@@swanp1767 You nailed it. I ended up going for a 52V battery too. I thought the hub motor would be too much, but now having installed it, I bought exactly the power I needed.
Thanks for posting mention this in other videos I love all bicycles currently have trek mountain bike and a truck road bike my truck rode bike iped consistently 18 mph so a 20 mile an hour evike is Ludacris for me
Stay away from "Wish" every thing they sell if second rate or out right junk. If your going to spend money on a ebike, or a conversion kit. Get a good one with good customer support.
I have a front hub 1000w 48v wheel and run a 48v 40ah lithium battery on a trike. It lasts me almost two weeks of riding back and forth to work, climbs the few hills at speed unless it's already at top speed in which case it slows down a bit, and handles grocery runs fairly easy. I used to do the chinese motor bike kits, but after having a lot of difficulties with the setup on my trike I swapped to the electric hub and haven't looked back
@@danielziolkowski1027 I tried just for 5km a custom build e-bike with hub motors at both wheels and found it very comfy. I think the regen braking was very smooth and the acceleration was so nice :)
@@DanislavKostov Thanks would you recommend playing around with having both a front and rear motors ? This will be my first ebike I just want to learn as much as I can b4 I make my own mistakes lol
Thanks for all the great info you already have given but I think an organized video detailed series on different essential parts of an electric vehicle would be a blessing... Thanks again and please keep up the good work
I just put together a BBSHD Luna hotrod with 52v Wolf battery. Bike is 90's Mongoose IBOC Comp MTB, Bonded aluminum frame. Skinny 90lb road tires, 52lbs ready to ride. It makes my buddies Radrunner seem like a joke but I was expecting a little more?? It's a blast to ride and maybe it's just that I'm used to powerful dirt and street bikes?? With a fresh charge it does move out pretty good. ??? Love your channel.
Great video thanks mate. Do you recommend having push button throttle for acceleration or having pedal assist? Is it possible to have both running at the same time? Or flip between these two options with a button
I have a 250w motor. 36v battery. My way to work has a 12% hill for 600m and the way back has a longer 10% hill home. The bike slows down to about 15km. And struggles to keep it. So yeah, get a 350w.
I've got over 18,000 miles (28800 km) on my 2003 LWB recumbent ebike build. It uses an old fashioned (with modified slightly lower gearing) USPD Currie drive on the rear 26" (41.6cm) wheel. The motor/controller is rated for 48V, 1000W continuous, 1500W peak. You might get the idea from this that I never pedal and only ride it with POD (Power On Demand) throttle wide open all the time, but nothing could be further from the truth. I always pedal and seldom exceed 500W of power even on one of the many 15%+ grade hills in my territory. I use no motor power on flats or gentle rolling hills. Having the extra power comes in very handy when I take the lane in traffic in areas where it's stoplight to stoplight every block. Having all the surplus continuous power while rarely ever using more than half of it means I don't stress the drive too hard at all. That's probably why the longevity has been so good as it shows no sign of lower performance today, 16 years later. Here's a picture of it from back in 2003 after I completed the build: tinyurl.com/y2subu22
@@JaleelJohanson62 Pity the link doesn't seem to work at the moment. I wish there were more people like you. Over here in the EU you can use a speed-pedelec, but then you need to have it insured, wear a helmet and have at least a drivers license for a moped (which is quite easy to get). Any car drivers license will do as well. More and more people are getting rid of the car and commute by speed-bike. Far more popular though are low powered e-bikes (rated 250W), often called pedelecs. Anybody can ride them, even children, and you don't need anything. No license, no insurance and you don't have to wear a helmet. Nowadays most of them are 36 Volts and they are fused 15 Amps. This means the maximum power is up to 540 Watts (and the rated 250 Watts is defined as the average maximum). Their speed is limited though to 25 km/h with a 10% window, so most of them easily go 27-28 km/h. You can tweak them to go much faster, but officially those tweaks make it illegal to ride on public roads. There is no throttle (by law), you'll have to turn the pedals. There are 2 systems: one that only checks whether you turn the peddle (no matter how slow) and one that adjusts the power of the motor to the force on the pedal. The latter gives a more natural feel, the first makes it possible not to use any human force at all. To get back to the title of the video. An average adult of 80 kg riding a normal city-bike on a flat surface at about 18 km/h uses between 80 and 100 Watts. Living in the Netherlands we know all about bikes and we are so very lucky not to have any hills, let alone mountains. Our biggest challenge is peddling up a bridge.
@@czarzenana5125 Our laws here in the U.S. regarding ebikes vary by state. There is a federal law as well, and while there are some states that follow it to the letter, the federal law is used primarily as a guideline for the importation of ebikes from abroad. In my particular state, the law for ebikes was recently changed to that of mopeds. I have a top speed limit under motor power alone of 30 mph ( 48 kph) with no more than 2.5 brake hp to the drive wheel. One must have a driver's license to ride an ebike on the streets. That leaves those who's licenses have been suspended off of ebikes as well though as well as those under age 16 which is not very good IMHO. I have a velomobile as well and it incorporates the Bafang BBS02 750W mid-drive that powers the cranks in parallel with human pedaling. While it does have a POD throttle, I tend to ride it in pedelec mode as I like that better. It's of the simpler design you mentioned where there's no torque sensor and therefore no varying assist level to match the user's level of pedaling. It's still a blast to drive and I can't count how many times I've been videoed while out and about in it. lol I would think that with a 250W power limit that a mid-drive where the motor can take advantage of the bicycle gearing would be the way to go? My velomobile in the lowest gear could climb a tree if it had claws to grip the bark. lol I've watched many videos of the bicycle culture in the Netherlands and would love to visit there some day! Try this link: www.evdeals.com/images/ElectricBikes/CharlesBlow1.jpg
I have 750w geared hub on front and staton friction drive Honda gx50 at rear on a cheap 26” mtb. Flies up STEEP hills at nearly 30mph. Handlebars take a bit to get use to with the different controls. Going to upgrade soon to a disc brake bike for stopping power. I cruise on just gas power at 25-30. Taking off and hills I go hybrid...Leg/Lekky/Petrol. Maintenance is minimal with this set up. Will make video when I get the disc bike sorted.
@@01imh Difficult to say: First I tried to make the throttle control via Force on the pedals, but this is at 3kw unbearable(flew off the bike because of too much power).-> To compare: the maximum torque is the same as a 100ps motorcycle. Now I'm controlling it via a real throttle grip and it is much better, also programmed an "Speed"-Mode where it automatically accerlerates me to a given speed if i pedal, but at fixed torque much lower than the 3kw (I guess about 1kW or so). Also I made a extra battery because the normal ones don't give you 3kW To conclude: I freaking nice and has a lots of power, but in everyday use I guess 1kW is more than enough.
Mika I'm new to ebike's, just know deciding what one to build. I'm retired now but I raced bicycles for many years. I am an electric RC pilot tho. This is general but we use 3s, 4s, 5and 6s- 2000mah to 6000mha with a 40c rating up to 140c. All i know the higher the c rating the better the battery takes high power drain and charges. Why do ebikes use batteries with such low c ratings. Thanks Rick D.
Great explanation of e bike power! i just ordered a 1000 watt mid drive. I am 6'2" and 265 lbs and ride fat tire bikes in sand. Sand eats up the power and i am glad i held out an waited for the 1000 watt befang mid drive
@@onepalproductions you can make one for litteraly free just fine a old motor 24v wich are basically free and a battery wich you have to get creative to find because there's lots of unique types
@@onepalproductions Yes and no. You can buy motors and controllers from china and use any low end bike to build an ebike for cheap. But you are responsible for picking a reliable source, designing the system and troubleshooting any problems. And, or course there is no warranty or support line. Ebike retailers in the US want to carry bikes with a decent profit margin, because they have ongoing costs to cover. I can understand why they don't want to carry cheap 5kw bikes - in addition to low profit margins, there is huge liability for them.
Then how about the Lectric XP or ST? They cost $899, and are a class 2/3 e-bike. This means they will go up to 28mph in pedal assist and 20mph in throttle only mode (limited by law). If you want to go faster, the law classifies it as a motorcycle. At that point you need a motorcycle license, registration and insurance, like any other motorcycle. An e-bike lets you avoid these sometimes expensive legal necessities. E-bikes also appeal to those who don't have or who can't get a driver's license, for whatever reason.
@@SuperSushidog There are othwr justifications for high power ebikes. I want a fat tire bike that can baul a small trailer through any weather over any terrain. That require a hell of a lot more power than 500w or 1000w Other people want a bike they can ride levally to an offroad area, where they can use the extra power fully.
I use a 48 volt/500 watt Direct Drive magnetic induction motor on my recumbent, front wheel. I live in a town with some nasty hills. This motor has a weight capacity of 600 pounds, so has no problem pulling me up hills. Even if I am pulling my Burley nomad trailer. If I'm not mistaken, your only talking about geared motors. As for the battery, it is a 48v, 10 Ah battery, I intend to get a 15 Ah battery by May, too give me better range. I also primarily use assist, and not the throttle.
you are good ... very good ...unpretentious and natural ... what an amazing innovative and exciting decade ahead for the mainstream future of personal travel ... just goes to prove that the wheel can be reinvented ... cheers from downunder ( it’s a bloody big hot country down here and aussies are way too to lazy to pedal hard )
I built a 1000 watt rear hub drive ebike a year ago (spring 2019) from a Walmart on line kit. The bike and a 180 lb capacity cargo trailer from Aosom, is actually utilitarian for me since I live on a sailboat and I can take the bike where ever the winds take me; what ever port I pull into, as long as a grocery store, a Walmart, and a "home center" is within 15 miles (22ah battery) of the dock I can collect all I need to sustain the next leg of my wandering - with the trailer usually in one trip. I got rid of my gas hog truck which spent 95% of the year in storage, when I completed the bike. Now, at 750 watts limited by the controller, this bike without the trailer can sustain about 33 mph on a flat and around 27 mph up a 5% incline (I weigh in at a whopping 135 lbs, by-the-way). For reference that's 5 ft up for every 100 ft horizontally or 15 ft up in the length of a football field, and pretty typical of most hills on the east coast. With the trailer subtract about 2 to 3 mph in either case. Maybe because I'm retired and a bit older, but 30 mph on a light bicycle is a bit hair raising. At that speed any cross wind will push you all over the road, bumps in the road hurt (maybe just my bony butt) and can threaten to bounce you into a crash on a bike without some sort of shock absorbing suspension. Partly because of laws in many east coast states I further impose the LCD panel's speed limit of 20 mph. This is just my opinion but anything above 1000 watts is excessive unless you are trying to set the land-speed record for ebikes, possibly trying to start an ebike racing circuit or just in it for the adrenaline rush ... and are a VERY accomplished bike rider.
I find my 500W Bafang 48V mid drive Montague bike conversion an overkill. I pedal my bike and use the motor only for assist in wind and on hills. I get 50 to 75 mile range on paved roads with mostly small and a few medium hills. Average person can put out about 200W over an hour of pedalling a non-powered bike. Climbing hills with 500W Mid drive as well as pedalling is hard on the chain and sprockets. My next bike will be 350W 36V rear wheel hub motor, a friend of mine has it and keeps up with me no problem; he was a velodrome racer, now 74 yrs old . His bike is 16 lbs lighter than mine.
I pretty much decided to get a rear hub motored ebike with a 750w motor. I had read that a mid drive motor where is that the gears and chain rather quickly. But now it sounds like a mid drive would be more powerful for the same wattage
Here in the UK we're more restricted than the US when it comes to e bike power. I'm surprised you think a 250w motor is almost useless at climbing hills. I live in a hilly part of the U.K. and the throttle lever on my e bike gives a very definite kick when it's applied, I just need to keep turning the cranks with very little if any effort, so as you say there must be a wide deferential between motors.
100% agree. I’m in Cornwall and it’s hilly as hell here. My 250 watt motor gets me up all the hills here. I’m 6ft 2 and 200 pounds. Yes, I have to pedal to get up the hills. But that’s my idea of a pedal assist bike,,,, it helps you up hills. I get up hills faster than my road bike. And I’m not a sweaty mess after climbing on the ebike. 250 watts is enough for climbing.
Have a Bosch motor 250w (45km/h) engine and in the Lowlands it is more than enough, if you want to have a better acceleration you can also go for bikes with smaller wheels.
Awesome Video, as a heavy 300lbs rider myself, i been researching all over how many watts i should get, sound like 750 should be the MINIMAL! 1000watts sound nice but expensive here in Alberta, Canada. Thanks for the tips!
You have to remember that any motor assist will assist you. These aren't a motorcycle, you do have to put some effort in. If you're looking for sitting back and throttling up hills, sure go big or go home, but if you're using pedal assist, well the only legal ebikes here where I live are 250w motors and they are popular as hell despite the hills we have here. If you start riding a bike regularly (i'm 150kg too) that weight will soon drop and as the old saying goes: it never gets any easier, you just get faster.
I've learned / Been inspired by your videos. I'm kinda sorry I bought a 52 volt 13 amp battery for my trike conversion. Al really needed was a 48 volt 13 amp battery. Speaking of trikes, Whenever I see a fat tire trike I chuckle a little. The back tires on a front hub drive just hold up the trike. What's the advantage gained? I've been able to go on sand and dirt just fine with the standard issue tires. Oh, good luck getting a fat tire trike thru a doorway.
Got a 48v 350w motor "big as your dinner plate" size converted to mid drive men no hill can stop me but i snap na chain so much torque in a little power i can do go as 2.04:1 ratio and up to 1:1.39 mid drive are the best!
I've been looking on youtube for hours for someone to give m e a clear idea what power range I should even be shopping in. It wasn't until this video that I had a working understanding of what to expect from various power ranges. Also, all 4 of those books are up my ally, so here's hoping :-)
What are the best ways to use and treat your lithium battery. To make the best and longest life cycle. Example's 1 overheating damages 2 storage voltage for extended periods of time. 3 lithium battery appropriate voltages for chargers (very important) Your videos are excellent thank you for your time cheers.
Running a 1500w Hub motor on my Brodie hardtail. A good set of brakes really starts to matter at these power levels. Would be interesting to see your take on brake pad, caliper and rotor recommendations within these power ranges.
I got a Prophet 250w ebike and live on mountain slope so it uphill or downhill not much flat ground so am thinking of putting a 250w hub motor on the front wheel with additional battery on the rear carrier.
I bought a 3kw enduro DH bike recently for relatively cheap, got to say it's a marvil to ride, more torque than most other vehicles off the line up to 60km/h and a top speed of around 75km/h, thing is the thing never comes close to the 3000 watt usage, maxes out at just over 1kw. My battery is a 30ah 48v battery which is most likely my bottleneck, thinking of going 72v hopefully I can actually use the whole motor. At one point I thought maybe it wasn't a 3kw motor, but looking at other 3kw motors it looks very similar in size if not exactly the same. It's a rear hub motor taking up almost half of the back wheel, in reality probably 1/3 of the wheel, it extends passed the brake pads which are pretty monstrous themselves.
DECENT VIDEO, I LIKE THAT YOU WERE BIASED IN THIS VIDEO, I HATE PEOPLE THAT SLAM 250 WATT HUBS, I HAVE A ANCHEER 16" BIKE, WITH A 250 WATT, 36 VOLT HUB, AND IT WORKS GREAT FOR ME, 2 POINTS THAT YOU MADE IN THE VIDEO, IS THE LEVEL OF TERRAIN, AND THE WEIGHT OF THE RIDER, AND THAT IS VERY TRUE, I LIVE IN A CITY THAT IS ALMOST ALL FLAT TERRAIN AND I AM A LIGHT WEIGHT RIDER, EVEN THOUGH I HAVE A LOW POWER BIKE, I DO NOT NOTICE, IT GETS, UP TO SPEED DECENT AND I CAN RIDE MANY MILES WITHOUT PEDDLING, WHERE YOU LIVE AND RIDE HAS THE BIGGEST PART ON WHAT WATTAGE AND VOLT IS SUITABLE, I LIKE YOU MADE THAT POINT, I LIKE THE VIDEOS WHERE PEOPLE ARE BIASED, I GET SO TIRED OF VIDEOS ON HUBS AND EBIKES THAT CUT DOWN ANY EBIKE UNDER A CERTAIN WATTAGE AND VOLTAGE, NOT EVERYONE WANTS A HIGH END BIKE, AND MOST PEOPLE CANT AFFORD TO SPEND THOUSANDS ON AN EBIKE, I HAVE HAD MY EBIKE FOR ABOUT A YEAR, AND THE BIKE IS GREAT, I HAVE HAD MINOR ISSUES, MOSTLY NOISES FROM BUMPS, AND I HAVE FOUND WAYS TO ELIMINATE THE NOISES, I FEEL THAT MOST EBIKES ARE AWESOME IN GENERAL, I KNOW THERE ARE SOME EBIKES THAT ARE JUNK, BUT IF YOU KNOW WHAT ARE LOOKING FOR YOU CAN FIND SOMETHING THAT YOU WILL BE HAPPY WITH, I AM STILL VERY HAPPY WITH MY 16" ANCHEER, I THOUGHT HOW INTERESTING IT WOULD BE TO MAKE THIS EBIKE A SLEEPER, I ALSO THOUGHT HOW SCARRY FAST IT WOULD BE IF I DID THAT, BUT ITS CALLED MONEY AND A LITTLE TIME, GREAT VIDEO
I ordered a "250 watt front wheel conversion set" on ebay. They sent me a 1000 watt version without even telling me. It's great fun to ride even though its not strictly road-legal in my country (250 watts is the limit here).
What bike would you suggest for your 73 year old senior? I have had hip surgery but DR says riding will be good for me. We live flatland and have bike paths. I have learned a lot from your posts.
Thanks for this, clean and simple. I am more interested in figuring out how many watts they use on average (say 75kg rider) on relatively flat ground to go say 10 km. Cheers
IOW, it depends. On your weight, terrain flat to hilly, wind, tire pressure, battery condition state & voltage, mid/hub drive, your personal output power, your expectations, controller, bike efficiency.
I bought a 21 sp mountain bike, a 1500 watt rear hub drive and a 52 volt 20 ah battery with no china cells. slicks front and rear @60psi. The wires to the motor seems a little small and noticed they got a little warm after ridding fast..did a voltage drop on each leg and got 1 to 1.2 voltage drop on each leg so i replaced them with wire from local hobby shop...14 gauge 100 strand silicone pretty much the same wire as the controller...noticeable difference...it used to run the same speed at 2/3 throttle as full throttle...now full throttle is full throttle. It ran 38 gps today on flat ground...is that about right for the combination? First time messing with one of these deals...i remembered the slicks from a mountain bike i had 30 years ago..i remember they were like ridding down hill all the time...i guess bicycle geometry was not intended for much past 30..mine had a twitchy thing going on that i didnt much care for. i put the forks in a press and bent about 3* more rake in it...it is happy a little past 40 and a car tow...I have another bike, one of those honda deals..cbr1100xx blackbird..about 175 hp and 191 gps...like the ebike almost as nuch..the honda is a little hard on my driving record..guess 750vwatts is the limit for street use...cant get a speeding ticket on a bike? I did get one when i was a kid. Ye old schwinn 10 speed blazing through a canyon,,,35 in a 25...mom was so pissed..at the cop..lol
I would be interested in factors that maximize speed. Is gearing a mid-drive more important than the wattage for achieving higher speeds? How important is the batteries voltage etc.? I'm more interested in electric motorcycles as opposed to bikes.
It seems to me that what you "need" really depends on what you consider to be an "eBike". Are we talking about pedal-assistance, where the motor helps you out a little or are we talking basically electric motorcycles posing as bicycles? A Tour de France cyclist may put out an average of about 375 watts by himself. And he can climb hills just fine. Adding a 250 watt motor, combined with pedal power, to a bicycle will essentially catapult any old lady right into the league of competative cyclists. A 500 watt motor will give you the sprint power of Lance Armstrong without even having to touch the pedals. If you say you need more than 500 watts to "get up the hill", it feels to me we're talking about electric motorcycles here, not eBikes. Bicycles don't "need" to go 30+ mph uphill.
What are the odds that another Grant was wondering about the same thing and I happen to come across your video? Lol Thanks for the information brother. 🙏💯
It also matters how you want to use your bike. If you want some assistance to climb hills and still want to use your own power a good 250w would be good no?
I'd be interested in also knowing what the options are if one is say, 50 miles from home when the battery dies. Does the difficulty in pedaling go up with the power of the motor?
If your using a geared motor, be it mid drive or hub, the only thing you have to contend with is the weight of the motor and battery. There is no resistance caused by the motor.
Best way to determine real performance of your motor is to look at its controller. My motor is rated 500 watts, but it comes with a 36v and 22 amp controller. That means it can and does put out up to 790 watts of power. Also not all hub motors are the same. 500 watt internally geared hub motors provide significantly better torque then direct drive motors. Thus my 500 watt, internally geared motor actually performs on hills closer to that of a 1000 watt direct drive hub motor. I can be sure of this because I weigh over 200 pounds, and my bike, with its massive 33ah battery with homemade wood and alu enclosure, steel frame SS bike, rack and panniers, motorscooter light kit + wire harness, lock and accessories weighs in at about 75 pounds. It still gets me up the hills in my town, though it does bog down a bit. On my SS bike, I chose a gear ratio that is too low to help at the motors top speed but is better suited to assisting the motor up hills.
Great video:) i agree i have my 1500w hub running at peak of 1900w and while a peak of 1500w is good and can keep up with most traffic it struggles to accelerate uphill above 36kmh, 1900w on the otherhand can accelerate you up to that 45-50kmh range on some fairly steep hills.
Very informative. As an older guy, I'm interested in obtaining an ebike for bow hunting in a wildlife management area near my home. Bikes are allowed. I'm leaning towards a 750 watt fat tire bike with fenders and big rack in the rear. Perhaps a little tow behind carrier.
I have a 250watt Haibike Xduro Hardtail Bosh mid drive motor system 29er and I can climb any hill in the Lowest level of pedal assist. And I also have a 2014 Easymotion Neo Jumper with a 350watt hub motor and I can also climb any hill in the lowest level of pedal assist , it also has a throttle. So I really disagree with what you say the lower powered Ebikes are capable of.And I also have 3 other 20 inch ebikes not mentioned that are extremely capable.
I saw a Bafang factory tour video the other day . In that video the tour guide made mention of a 1 kw motor they make. I bet that would make for a super torque bike ! How much battery would you have to have to make it work right ? I think this would make a very strong street bike if limited to 20mph . My personal choice would be a single speed with a gates carbon fiber belt set up.
most motors don't have a rating. you need to pay attention to the wire gauge being used in construction.(feed lines and stator windings)and maximum wattage output. I moded a serengetti panther electric scooter because the max wattage rating was 1100 on a 500w motor. so I installed a variable voltage 48-60vdc controller with a 1200 watt max at 800w usage and a 3 speed throttle and never looked back. the SLA batteries last about 2 yrs. I never had enough cash in pocket to buy lithium yet. it came with lithium but was under powered by factory and failed.
I'd love to hear your opinion on how important the different types of suspension are. Including not just front and rear but also seat-post suspension and plus size or fat tyres. It would be fun to test a dual suspension fat bike with seat-post suspension and a gel seat!!! :)
Gel seats by in large are a joke because they're just shaped wrong. Your butt is a bulge so it should not ride on another bulge, it should be cupped. Schwinn makes just such a seat. I would like to see more about seat post suspensions especially for us larger (250#) riders. I've been shopping for one but kind of surprise no one exactly mentions larger riders when I have tried to google it up.
I've just ordered a 250 watt e-trike here in The U.K. which is the legal limit. I'm 230 pounds and have hills around the area I live so a bit worried and I want to use it for shopping also.
Good video. You should go over spokes sizes and other things that should be addressed or added on, when increasing the power of the motors, so the bike can handle it without a failure or breaking some thing. Maybe weak points in bikes that need to be inspected regularly as well when using motors would make a good video as well. Keep up the great work.
Spoke size is a HUGE issue. I was running a normal bike with normal sized spokes hauling a huge load and when a spoke broke the whole Aluminum cargo rack broke on the side too. After that I rebuilt it with a new wheel from bikeman4u.com and bought a high quality heavy duty wheel with 11gauge spokes and a new cargo rack. Bike was a dream after that. Spokes really seem to be the key to that formula. And now I can't find a wheel with anything thicker than 12 g spokes. I'd build a touring bike with larger spokes, too, if it were up to me. The weight is negligible and the reliability benefit is huge.
I just broke 2spokes a couple of days ago, waiting for replacement as it's a odd size. Pot holes plus tubeless might not have been best set up, going to switch back to tube and see how that goes.
In this case battery power has to do with range basically. A 48v500w motor with a 10ah bat will run less mile then a 14ah battery on the same motor. Correct me if I am wrong.
I feel that wind is as important as hills in factoring motor size. I live in a place that has significant wind. The effort and power I need to overtake the added wind is significant
Exactly right. Wind is huge with or without a motor. For that reason I chose a BBSHD on a roadbike. No regrets. I use maximum power mostly if trying to ride fast into a stiff headwind.
You should sail instead of biking
@@nolanr1400 If his house was an island on water, then surely he would be.
Holy exposure, Batman! Well I guess it's good that I know more about ebikes than I do about working cameras...
Oh I thought you were just really white!
"That quite alright, Robin, my boy" To the Bat cave to get into your camera settings and raise or reduce (experiment in the lack of a manual) the I.S.O. setting by a few points at a time. I.S.O is the sensitivity the camera sensor has to ambient light. It depends on the make of camera but usually a slightly lower I.S.O. will make the camera adjust less to low light situations (like sitting in the shade of the ol' oak tree) preventing it from becoming washed out.
My 48 volt 750 Watt bldc motorcycle can achive 45-50 kmph speed and loading capacity 200 kg and 100 kg motorcycle can climb 20degrees
1.5 kWh battery with Samsong cell give around 90-120 km range
Sir how much power is needed for uplifting front wheel ,if using mid drive
My Bafang 350w geared rear hub motor, with a 36V battery, is all the power I would want. I'm 6'-3" and 205 lbs, so I still get a decent workout when climbing hills. I actually find myself doing way more hill riding now because it's so much fun! I've ridden ebikes with 500w and 750w motors and I barely break a sweat with those. So, if you still want to get a decent workout, don't go for anything more than 350w
what kind of speed can do you reach?
@@shneor.e About 25 mph on the flat
@@alozborne i found a 350w bafang rear hub e-bike conversion kit that's near me, do you mind if i ask some questions?
1. 25mph is the pedal assist mode or that's its full throttle?
2. i'm 5'2, ~145lbs, i can cycling 25mph myself, so would the pedal assist help me surpass that speed or 25mph is its cap?
3. how big is your 36V battery? how far have you tested it?
thanks in advance.
For me, I like having a more powerful motor, even though I rarely use the power. I usually have it set up in a motor that gives me about 200 W. That gives me all the power I need except for with a very strong headwind or a big hill. But I like having the powerpower when I need it.
I have been riding my ebike for 12yrs. Bought a 500w 48v kit on ebay for $600 back then. This bike has near 35,000 miles on it. It is a $450 Trek bike. Does 25mph, Still going.
Mags
My 1000w 52v 20ah cheapy chinese kit on a 98 Giant Rincon Hardtail has been kickin' it for 4 years now.. I won't even put a freaking 250w sticker on anything I own.. Can't even burn toast w/that... pfffft.. I get 30mph cheap. Build your own. I'll never get anything less powerful than this. ever. 750w is childs play.. I'm sorry.
@@Danstaafl gonna get 1500w 60v 32ag but it looks like a motor instead of bicycle.
@@Danstaafl Anything less than 200kw is for reptilians. Take a train traction motor and mount it to your bike...
Danstaafl I have to agree. I had the geoorbital wheel for close to 5 yrs, and that was a 500W motor. Then I bought a 1200W rear hub. The difference is night and day. I would never go less than 1200W. You can carry lumber on a steep uphill, without that motor breaking a sweat.
@@MockManor where do u get a 1200watt bike what kind of specs am I looking for it to be 1200 watt
my city has a lot of crazy hills 1500w has really been a life saver
My city is very similar, I live on the urban area only 15min car ride from town and fucking hills everywhere just wondering like but what bike do you use for this?
Front drive motor that uses the chain and gears will always be better on hills.
This is the best wattage ebike video I have ever seen. I appreciate you.
Thanks for this very informative video! In 6 minutes, I learned all the information I was searching for about motor capacity vs. expected performance. I'm preparing for my first eBike build and also planning an eMotorcycle conversion of my Honda CT90.
I still have my bionx d 500 equipped ebike and I’m over 200 lbs and i use pedal assist and it still gets me up some hills fairly easily. Too bad they went out of business. Great video and information as always Micah
My BMS failed on my Smart ebike and nobody can fix it .Would you remove the control board in the 350 wart hub motor and go with a new control and battery or would you spend thousands of dollars finding a new battery?
The battery voltage and power rating of the controller make a difference as well.
I bought an ebike with a 24v 250w motor and a 350w controller, it was pants would it got to15mph on the flat in 30 seconds forget about going over bridges it just stopped without help from me.
I upgraded the battery to 48v the controller to 800w and stuck a cycle analysist I there for good mesure, now I have a bike that can go 30mph and has great acceleration and hill climbing ability’s.
If I creep to the uk leagal speed of 15mph then no matter how steep the hill is I can go up it at 15mph.
At peak current draw the CA was measuring 1500w.
I didnt know that. So i can upgrade my bike and not change motor! Who knew! I wonder can i switch 1.75 tires to 4 inch tires. Its really the tires that bother me.
I have had your books in my wishlist for a few months now, not having known of your channel. I'm glad to have stumbled upon your videos.
I’ve been using a 250W 36V DIY ebike for a year and I wouldn’t say I need more power for my daily commutes. As long as the battery is full, that is. Because as it gets weaker, so does the torque of the motor.
I also use a 250 w bike every day and I climb hills every day. I guess he is comparing them with motorcycles.
The more power thing isn't for top speed it's for acceleration.
My ebike was bought as a 200w and I ran it for about 7 years. Then I decided to upgrade the hub motor to a 1500w. Yes the top speed is over double of what it was but you don't really go blasting along at max speed on the public highway. It's the acceleration & unassisted hill climbing that's awesome.
It's like getting out of a Trabant and into ANY modern car. The difference is mind blowing.
@@0utcastAussie so you had a 200W hub motor and swapped it with a 1500W hub motor withOUT replacing the controller? That doesn't seem right for some reason...
@@ThanosSustainable
Where did I say that I hadn't replaced the controller ?
The controller comes with the hub motor along with ebike brake levers & throttle
0utcastAussie that sounds like a kit, what did you go for if you dont mind me asking?
I thought I would never ride another bicycle after my orthopedic surgery. 3 surgeries. My 500w Bafang motor in my Ecomotion Core E-Pro Fat tire bike allows me to get some exercise and at the same time look like I'm superman up hills when really I'm more of a Superbee with my legs moving but not required to kill myself peddling. This kind of saved my life in that way. Thanks for the great motivating videos.
Hey Micah, great video and very informative. I want to add a bit about wind resistance and cost. I am on a 3kW Cyclone ebike generator (800W) hybrid where generator is removable for different modes. Also, don't take this as me grand standing I just have a lot of time to test and think about this. I would say that 22 mph is the sweet spot for ebikes from a wind resistance and cost perspective. To get there you need 750-1000W motor. The reason why that is the sweet spot is wind resistance robs a lot of power and becomes to the 3rd power above 20mph and 750-1000W motors and batteries are relatively cheap compared to 1500W+ kits. I rarely ride at 3kW because it is so inefficient due to wind resistance and battery life. Of course if you have an unlimited budget just go buy at 72V 30ah+ battery and you can go at whatever speeds you want. Can't wait to see you on the Harley Livewire btw.
Building my firts ebike. 3000w MXUS v3 hub motor and 72v 30ah diy battery. To much hills where I live and need about 70 km range to get to work. Learnig a lot with you and your website. Thanks
14kW all day long😁 if the front wheel doesn’t come up then it’s not enough power!
14 kW Mr. Kirby if you get to 20 will you have a disco sesh in your shed?? 😉
How does your bike handle that much power?
Wasn't sure if it could handle anymore im thinking of going 8KW hub drive the 15kw is probably gonna kill my bike lol.
Also what size battery?
And what's your top speed ?
@@danielziolkowski1027 Given the weight and size of 48V batteries (assuming he could even find a controller and wiring that could handle peak 291 Amps which I highly doubt), the range would be around 5 miles in the city at best. His bike would have to be built like a motorcycle to handle the torque.
@@danielziolkowski1027 check out Andy kirby videos he and vortecks are two excellent ebikers with more knowledge than most vortecks bike version 3 is crazy powerful he's started a site for info on builds etc link in his videos andys bikes are rapid powerful machines with informative videos look for their videos on here or check out cloudsto.com or kirby ebike these two guys are pretty much the best ebike build vlogers on UA-cam between those two guys you can't go wrong I believe they both use 72 volt 30ah there abouts batteries running 150 odd amps more than I can handle I've a 72 v mid drive running 90 amp turned down from 150 for safety reasons 😉
I think this video went about 6:10 longer than it takes to say MOAR!
i have strong headwinds here up 17 -20 mph the majority of the time and kick in a slight hill 3 miles long and my Aluminum Royce Union does all it can ! yeah i'm looking at a 750 watt E-Bike to help me commute without getting all sweaty ..thanks for your intel.
That was a great way to explain the differences between the different configurations. I was also wondering about this question. Thanks.
Totally agree with 1000watts. I have a Bafang BBSHD here in the UK on a 20 speed light weight aluminium mountain bike I built myself. It has dual front chain rings at 38T / 48T and a rear cassette from 11T to 50T. That bike goes like stink up any hill and actually catches quite a bit of air in the process over steep fast climbs to jumps. (I'm 90 Kgs and running it with a 52 volt 20 amp battery ). Though I think the BBSHD is actually 1500watts, not so much 1000. Regardless, hella lotta fun!
A friend has converted his recumbent trike to an e-trike with a "Copenhagen Wheel". Wireless control using a phone app, and no external battery. Can you do a review and give us your opinions? Thanx..
One factor that is not often talked about for ebikes is the diameter of the wheels and how that affects top speed and hill climbing ability. Although you may be sacrificing some top speed, smaller wheels do not need as much wattage to achieve the same torque to the ground needed for hills. Ofc, gearing also plays a big factor in the case of mid-drives, but all things being equal aside from wheel size, i think this holds true.
Great video, thanks! I wish yuou had done it before I built my E-bike though. I went for a 1500W 48V setup out of fear of laking power, and I love it. But I could have sorvived with 750W or 1000W. Something to consider as well is, that with bigger motors come bigger bateries, and the wheight of the bike increases considerably. I started with a Hybrid bike (light montain bike) and now it feels like a tank
3kW 72V 16aH + mountain bike + generator (800W) = 100lb bike here. Yeah, its a tank LOL. Keep it in that 2nd gear
@@feedallday2556Yeah... I think the bike weight issue is something worth knowing for people thinking about an ebike conversion. LOVE my heavy bike though
Thanks for four vids! You have saved me untold dollars and hours of waisted time. I ride a BCA with a Bafang mid drive and a NB 8000watt rear hub. I'm running a ASI bac 800 72v and a 72v 150amp on the hub. The mid drive display is the NXT touch screen. I'm running two triangular 72v30amp hour batteries. Fast and dependable, both used together on low pedal assist gives me over 200 miles of range brakeing with the regen lever. Two independent drives always gets me home, and usually first across an intersection.
Ah great I have been asking a similar question. Tnx for that answer.
Recently Japanese manaufacturers have agreed a spec for scooter/motorcycle batteries, do you know the Watts/amps/volts of these new batteries and when they will start to become available both wholesale and retail?
Sharing my own experience having 500w hub motor along w/ 48V, 12.5Ah Haybike battery. Since there was a statement in this video that 200 pounds rider barely can climb hills w/ 500w motor - I’ll say - I’m over 200 pounds and even using only 2nd power-assist pedaling level I’m able to climb very steep grade not only without problem but with acceleration.
Using only $500 Haybike Race Max e-bike sold on amazon I have enough power and acceleration shifting only between 2 of the 3 available power-assisted pedaling levels. Never ever I needed 100% pure throttle in order tired already to ride my e-bike and just so you know I’m 75-yr of age senior. So discussing how much power one needs when choosing e-bike keep in mind this report and save your money in picking the right e-bike for your conditions. 😃
As Jeremy Clarkson would say, MORE POWER is always the correct answer to that question.
He copied it from Tim the toolman Taylor. TV show with beautiful Spamela Hamderson, err, I mean Pamela Anderson.
1:00 also different motors have different resistance in ohms, less ohms / les resistance means it's gonna have more power, the wheel size gonna affect the top speed and torque, and also weaker hub motors have gears inside, to increase torque which reduce top speed
Some of us don't care about limits in Europe, I have been running 750w middrive for 5 years, 250w limits just don't cut it.
Yeah those laws are a joke seriously
Such a dedication and humility; taking time to develop a video just to satisfy your viewers queries is such a great thing. The explanation was satisfactory, keep the great work going. To greater knowledge.
I deemed 2080w as necessary.
Though, the sticker I'm putting on it does say 250w.
Keeping it legal. Nice bro.
My 1000w the factory sent me a real invoice saying 250w.... Chinese can be rather agreeable
Hope it has some good brakes on it. A collision on a bike at 40 MPH is more than enough to kill someone.
@@autonomous2010 Even with some old cantilever brakes, I can stop pretty fast. Though I must say I squeeze pretty hard.
@@airwilliam24 I guess. I just find people are often dangerously optimistic about the frailty of human bodies.
I'd say that a good 250watt mid drive is not just good for the flat, it's a massive boost on hills as well. Hub motor, not so much!
agreed. I have a cheap 250W tdsz2 and steep inclines, even on gravel, lowest gear and highest assist level are really no issue. No I didn't measure the inclines but I know I would have thought twice before tackling them with a conventional bike. I think with e-bikes, people have developed unrealistic expectations.
@@ioandragulescu6063 I've since purchased a Giant Roam E+, so now I can speak with authority. I'm a big person, and it makes hill climbs an absolute breeze.
@@contentsdiffer5958 I'm using a 250w motor, that's the max legal size in my country. There are different countries on the planet. And yes, that 250w makes a massive difference for me, so my comment stands.
@@modut6258 In USA Roam E+ is rated at 50Nm and costs $2,700 believe it's even exchange rate for Euro. I'm 84 kilos. Doesn't mention max speed, but 25KPH is EU limit. Pondering buy bike here in USA and bringing it when I move to Spain in near future, but slowest bikes here are 32KPH, so I don't know if I'd be let in with it. Found 250w with 60Nm reduced from $2,600 to $2100 Co Op Cycles CTY e2.2
@@Borderman47 Tell me about it! When I lived in Spain my sister bought me an expensive jacket she got 1/2 price. She insured it for the full price and by the time I paid the tax at Correros, between shipping and taxes it was double. Wanted to put miles on bike so they wouldn't or would tax it lower.
Fantastic explainer, man. Still waiting for you to convert the motorcycle though. I'm so excited about that. When will there be an update on that?
I'M not sure if we can discuss wattage and torque-speed, but exclude battery consumption on a ebike.
Good to know, I'm getting my 52V 2000W hub motor kit tomorrow that will be going on my Norco :)
I’m considering getting a surrey (4- or 6-person) and I want to instal a hub motor on the drivers side to make it pedal assist. Of course they are crazy heavy compared to a bike, so do I go 1500w?
Id go for it. Alot of passengers and more power is better. Im trying to get the governor off of my bike for more speed. And two batteries for you. Maybe two 52v?
@@swanp1767 You nailed it. I ended up going for a 52V battery too. I thought the hub motor would be too much, but now having installed it, I bought exactly the power I needed.
Thanks for posting mention this in other videos I love all bicycles currently have trek mountain bike and a truck road bike my truck rode bike iped consistently 18 mph so a 20 mile an hour evike is Ludacris for me
Where can I find a dual motor, dual battery display?
Are the cheap 1000 watt motors on wish worth buying?
Stay away from "Wish" every thing they sell if second rate or out right junk. If your going to spend money on a ebike, or a conversion kit. Get a good one with good customer support.
Voilamart
I have a front hub 1000w 48v wheel and run a 48v 40ah lithium battery on a trike. It lasts me almost two weeks of riding back and forth to work, climbs the few hills at speed unless it's already at top speed in which case it slows down a bit, and handles grocery runs fairly easy. I used to do the chinese motor bike kits, but after having a lot of difficulties with the setup on my trike I swapped to the electric hub and haven't looked back
250W at front + 500W at the back wheel ;)
Does it improve or affect handeling? or just speed?
@@danielziolkowski1027 I tried just for 5km a custom build e-bike with hub motors at both wheels and found it very comfy.
I think the regen braking was very smooth and the acceleration was so nice :)
@@DanislavKostov
Thanks would you recommend playing around with having both a front and rear motors ?
This will be my first ebike I just want to learn as much as I can b4 I make my own mistakes lol
@@danielziolkowski1027 For a first ebike I would recommend basic setup with rear wheel hub motor. Easy and working.
@@DanislavKostov Thanks I will get it going right then will only be a day b4 I start to experiment lol and understand some cause and effect
Thanks for all the great info you already have given but I think an organized video detailed series on different essential parts of an electric vehicle would be a blessing... Thanks again and please keep up the good work
We need all the power! 😂💪✌🏻
I just put together a BBSHD Luna hotrod with 52v Wolf battery. Bike is 90's Mongoose IBOC Comp MTB, Bonded aluminum frame. Skinny 90lb road tires, 52lbs ready to ride. It makes my buddies Radrunner seem like a joke but I was expecting a little more?? It's a blast to ride and maybe it's just that I'm used to powerful dirt and street bikes?? With a fresh charge it does move out pretty good. ??? Love your channel.
Great video thanks mate. Do you recommend having push button throttle for acceleration or having pedal assist? Is it possible to have both running at the same time? Or flip between these two options with a button
I have a 250w motor. 36v battery. My way to work has a 12% hill for 600m and the way back has a longer 10% hill home. The bike slows down to about 15km. And struggles to keep it. So yeah, get a 350w.
Bike means you should be peddling.
In the EU 250 Watts means it can be easily 500 Watts up hill.
I've got over 18,000 miles (28800 km) on my 2003 LWB recumbent ebike build. It uses an old fashioned (with modified slightly lower gearing) USPD Currie drive on the rear 26" (41.6cm) wheel. The motor/controller is rated for 48V, 1000W continuous, 1500W peak. You might get the idea from this that I never pedal and only ride it with POD (Power On Demand) throttle wide open all the time, but nothing could be further from the truth. I always pedal and seldom exceed 500W of power even on one of the many 15%+ grade hills in my territory. I use no motor power on flats or gentle rolling hills. Having the extra power comes in very handy when I take the lane in traffic in areas where it's stoplight to stoplight every block. Having all the surplus continuous power while rarely ever using more than half of it means I don't stress the drive too hard at all. That's probably why the longevity has been so good as it shows no sign of lower performance today, 16 years later.
Here's a picture of it from back in 2003 after I completed the build:
tinyurl.com/y2subu22
@@JaleelJohanson62
Pity the link doesn't seem to work at the moment.
I wish there were more people like you. Over here in the EU you can use a speed-pedelec, but then you need to have it insured, wear a helmet and have at least a drivers license for a moped (which is quite easy to get). Any car drivers license will do as well. More and more people are getting rid of the car and commute by speed-bike. Far more popular though are low powered e-bikes (rated 250W), often called pedelecs. Anybody can ride them, even children, and you don't need anything. No license, no insurance and you don't have to wear a helmet.
Nowadays most of them are 36 Volts and they are fused 15 Amps. This means the maximum power is up to 540 Watts (and the rated 250 Watts is defined as the average maximum).
Their speed is limited though to 25 km/h with a 10% window, so most of them easily go 27-28 km/h. You can tweak them to go much faster, but officially those tweaks make it illegal to ride on public roads. There is no throttle (by law), you'll have to turn the pedals. There are 2 systems: one that only checks whether you turn the peddle (no matter how slow) and one that adjusts the power of the motor to the force on the pedal. The latter gives a more natural feel, the first makes it possible not to use any human force at all.
To get back to the title of the video. An average adult of 80 kg riding a normal city-bike on a flat surface at about 18 km/h uses between 80 and 100 Watts. Living in the Netherlands we know all about bikes and we are so very lucky not to have any hills, let alone mountains. Our biggest challenge is peddling up a bridge.
@@czarzenana5125 Our laws here in the U.S. regarding ebikes vary by state. There is a federal law as well, and while there are some states that follow it to the letter, the federal law is used primarily as a guideline for the importation of ebikes from abroad. In my particular state, the law for ebikes was recently changed to that of mopeds. I have a top speed limit under motor power alone of 30 mph ( 48 kph) with no more than 2.5 brake hp to the drive wheel. One must have a driver's license to ride an ebike on the streets. That leaves those who's licenses have been suspended off of ebikes as well though as well as those under age 16 which is not very good IMHO. I have a velomobile as well and it incorporates the Bafang BBS02 750W mid-drive that powers the cranks in parallel with human pedaling. While it does have a POD throttle, I tend to ride it in pedelec mode as I like that better. It's of the simpler design you mentioned where there's no torque sensor and therefore no varying assist level to match the user's level of pedaling. It's still a blast to drive and I can't count how many times I've been videoed while out and about in it. lol I would think that with a 250W power limit that a mid-drive where the motor can take advantage of the bicycle gearing would be the way to go? My velomobile in the lowest gear could climb a tree if it had claws to grip the bark. lol I've watched many videos of the bicycle culture in the Netherlands and would love to visit there some day!
Try this link:
www.evdeals.com/images/ElectricBikes/CharlesBlow1.jpg
I have 750w geared hub on front and staton friction drive Honda gx50 at rear on a cheap 26” mtb. Flies up STEEP hills at nearly 30mph. Handlebars take a bit to get use to with the different controls. Going to upgrade soon to a disc brake bike for stopping power. I cruise on just gas power at 25-30. Taking off and hills I go hybrid...Leg/Lekky/Petrol.
Maintenance is minimal with this set up.
Will make video when I get the disc bike sorted.
Hmm, Im currently building a 3kw Bike, so I'll see how it will perform xD
How was it?
@@01imh Difficult to say:
First I tried to make the throttle control via Force on the pedals, but this is at 3kw unbearable(flew off the bike because of too much power).-> To compare: the maximum torque is the same as a 100ps motorcycle.
Now I'm controlling it via a real throttle grip and it is much better, also programmed an "Speed"-Mode where it automatically accerlerates me to a given speed if i pedal, but at fixed torque much lower than the 3kw (I guess about 1kW or so).
Also I made a extra battery because the normal ones don't give you 3kW
To conclude:
I freaking nice and has a lots of power, but in everyday use I guess 1kW is more than enough.
Ecks Dee
Mika I'm new to ebike's, just know deciding what one to build. I'm retired now but I raced bicycles for many years. I am an electric RC pilot tho. This is general but we use 3s, 4s, 5and 6s- 2000mah to 6000mha with a 40c rating up to 140c. All i know the higher the c rating the better the battery takes high power drain and charges. Why do ebikes use batteries with such low c ratings. Thanks Rick D.
If one were to follow the trajectory of Harley Davidson, E-Bikes will eventually weigh nearly 1000 lbs.
You didn't get the memo or the right gene's...real men need heavy bikes
Great explanation of e bike power! i just ordered a 1000 watt mid drive. I am 6'2" and 265 lbs and ride fat tire bikes in sand. Sand eats up the power and i am glad i held out an waited for the 1000 watt befang mid drive
All i know is that i’m not paying thousands of dollars to only go 20 mph
Exactly. These things are massively overpriced for what they are. I think we've become more stupid as a society.
@@onepalproductions you can make one for litteraly free just fine a old motor 24v wich are basically free and a battery wich you have to get creative to find because there's lots of unique types
@@onepalproductions Yes and no.
You can buy motors and controllers from china and use any low end bike to build an ebike for cheap.
But you are responsible for picking a reliable source, designing the system and troubleshooting any problems.
And, or course there is no warranty or support line.
Ebike retailers in the US want to carry bikes with a decent profit margin, because they have ongoing costs to cover.
I can understand why they don't want to carry cheap 5kw bikes - in addition to low profit margins, there is huge liability for them.
Then how about the Lectric XP or ST? They cost $899, and are a class 2/3 e-bike. This means they will go up to 28mph in pedal assist and 20mph in throttle only mode (limited by law). If you want to go faster, the law classifies it as a motorcycle. At that point you need a motorcycle license, registration and insurance, like any other motorcycle. An e-bike lets you avoid these sometimes expensive legal necessities. E-bikes also appeal to those who don't have or who can't get a driver's license, for whatever reason.
@@SuperSushidog There are othwr justifications for high power ebikes.
I want a fat tire bike that can baul a small trailer through any weather over any terrain.
That require a hell of a lot more power than 500w or 1000w
Other people want a bike they can ride levally to an offroad area, where they can use the extra power fully.
I use a 48 volt/500 watt Direct Drive magnetic induction motor on my recumbent, front wheel. I live in a town with some nasty hills. This motor has a weight capacity of 600 pounds, so has no problem pulling me up hills. Even if I am pulling my Burley nomad trailer. If I'm not mistaken, your only talking about geared motors. As for the battery, it is a 48v, 10 Ah battery, I intend to get a 15 Ah battery by May, too give me better range. I also primarily use assist, and not the throttle.
1500+ watts. Anything less is a waste of time.
15 in going 8kw 72V makes me tingling just thinking about it
you want bike or motorbike?
you are good ... very good ...unpretentious and natural ... what an amazing innovative and exciting decade ahead for the mainstream future of personal travel ... just goes to prove that the wheel can be reinvented ... cheers from downunder ( it’s a bloody big hot country down here and aussies are way too to lazy to pedal hard )
I built a 1000 watt rear hub drive ebike a year ago (spring 2019) from a Walmart on line kit. The bike and a 180 lb capacity cargo trailer from Aosom, is actually utilitarian for me since I live on a sailboat and I can take the bike where ever the winds take me; what ever port I pull into, as long as a grocery store, a Walmart, and a "home center" is within 15 miles (22ah battery) of the dock I can collect all I need to sustain the next leg of my wandering - with the trailer usually in one trip. I got rid of my gas hog truck which spent 95% of the year in storage, when I completed the bike. Now, at 750 watts limited by the controller, this bike without the trailer can sustain about 33 mph on a flat and around 27 mph up a 5% incline (I weigh in at a whopping 135 lbs, by-the-way). For reference that's 5 ft up for every 100 ft horizontally or 15 ft up in the length of a football field, and pretty typical of most hills on the east coast. With the trailer subtract about 2 to 3 mph in either case. Maybe because I'm retired and a bit older, but 30 mph on a light bicycle is a bit hair raising. At that speed any cross wind will push you all over the road, bumps in the road hurt (maybe just my bony butt) and can threaten to bounce you into a crash on a bike without some sort of shock absorbing suspension. Partly because of laws in many east coast states I further impose the LCD panel's speed limit of 20 mph. This is just my opinion but anything above 1000 watts is excessive unless you are trying to set the land-speed record for ebikes, possibly trying to start an ebike racing circuit or just in it for the adrenaline rush ... and are a VERY accomplished bike rider.
Great video. Starting to fill in the blank spots in my head.
I find my 500W Bafang 48V mid drive Montague bike conversion an overkill. I pedal my bike and use the motor only for assist in wind and on hills. I get 50 to 75 mile range on paved roads with mostly small and a few medium hills. Average person can put out about 200W over an hour of pedalling a non-powered bike. Climbing hills with 500W Mid drive as well as pedalling is hard on the chain and sprockets. My next bike will be 350W 36V rear wheel hub motor, a friend of mine has it and keeps up with me no problem; he was a velodrome racer, now 74 yrs old . His bike is 16 lbs lighter than mine.
I pretty much decided to get a rear hub motored ebike with a 750w motor. I had read that a mid drive motor where is that the gears and chain rather quickly. But now it sounds like a mid drive would be more powerful for the same wattage
Here in the UK we're more restricted than the US when it comes to e bike power. I'm surprised you think a 250w motor is almost useless at climbing hills. I live in a hilly part of the U.K. and the throttle lever on my e bike gives a very definite kick when it's applied, I just need to keep turning the cranks with very little if any effort, so as you say there must be a wide deferential between motors.
100% agree. I’m in Cornwall and it’s hilly as hell here. My 250 watt motor gets me up all the hills here. I’m 6ft 2 and 200 pounds. Yes, I have to pedal to get up the hills. But that’s my idea of a pedal assist bike,,,, it helps you up hills. I get up hills faster than my road bike. And I’m not a sweaty mess after climbing on the ebike. 250 watts is enough for climbing.
Nice video comparing wattage. It's always nice to see you in the forums too. Cheers!
Have a Bosch motor 250w (45km/h) engine and in the Lowlands it is more than enough,
if you want to have a better acceleration you can also go for bikes with smaller wheels.
Awesome Video, as a heavy 300lbs rider myself, i been researching all over how many watts i should get, sound like 750 should be the MINIMAL! 1000watts sound nice but expensive here in Alberta, Canada. Thanks for the tips!
Or if one wants to pull a cart w/ a child, groceries etc.
You have to remember that any motor assist will assist you. These aren't a motorcycle, you do have to put some effort in. If you're looking for sitting back and throttling up hills, sure go big or go home, but if you're using pedal assist, well the only legal ebikes here where I live are 250w motors and they are popular as hell despite the hills we have here.
If you start riding a bike regularly (i'm 150kg too) that weight will soon drop and as the old saying goes: it never gets any easier, you just get faster.
I've learned / Been inspired by your videos. I'm kinda sorry I bought a 52 volt 13 amp battery for my trike conversion. Al really needed was a 48 volt 13 amp battery. Speaking of trikes, Whenever I see a fat tire trike I chuckle a little. The back tires on a front hub drive just hold up the trike.
What's the advantage gained? I've been able to go on sand and dirt just fine with the standard issue tires. Oh, good luck getting a fat tire trike thru a doorway.
This is great information. I will use it as I plan my DIY Ebike
Got a 48v 350w motor "big as your dinner plate" size converted to mid drive men no hill can stop me but i snap na chain so much torque in a little power i can do go as 2.04:1 ratio and up to 1:1.39 mid drive are the best!
Glade I found this Vedic. I was not sure of the power I needed . Sounds like 500 or 750. I lean towards the front hub drive
I've been looking on youtube for hours for someone to give m e a clear idea what power range I should even be shopping in. It wasn't until this video that I had a working understanding of what to expect from various power ranges. Also, all 4 of those books are up my ally, so here's hoping :-)
Wonderful explanation of the complexity of power and need. You have earned another subscriber. you are welcome.
What are the best ways to use and treat your lithium battery. To make the best and longest life cycle.
Example's
1 overheating damages
2 storage voltage for extended periods of time.
3 lithium battery appropriate voltages for chargers (very important)
Your videos are excellent thank you for your time cheers.
Are there anything better than Lithium 18650 cells right now? Can you use solid state batteries? Arc Reactor?
Or a flux capacitor.... lol
matter-antimatter warp drive
great information. I just got my daughter 36V 500W hub and based on what you said I think she will be happy with it. Keep doing what you're doing.
Running a 1500w Hub motor on my Brodie hardtail. A good set of brakes really starts to matter at these power levels. Would be interesting to see your take on brake pad, caliper and rotor recommendations within these power ranges.
Id say a good hydraulic disc brake is mandatory, I'm looking at a 5000w kirbebike and that's the first upgrade I'm doing
I got a Prophet 250w ebike and live on mountain slope so it uphill or downhill not much flat ground so am thinking of putting a 250w hub motor on the front wheel with additional battery on the rear carrier.
Most informative about E-Bikes
We love this channel
what about the difference between geared and direct drive hub motors and how geared hub motors need less electric to climb hills?
I have a direct drive. They're best at getting mpg, not great up hills. I slow down tremendously with steep hills.
I bought a 3kw enduro DH bike recently for relatively cheap, got to say it's a marvil to ride, more torque than most other vehicles off the line up to 60km/h and a top speed of around 75km/h, thing is the thing never comes close to the 3000 watt usage, maxes out at just over 1kw. My battery is a 30ah 48v battery which is most likely my bottleneck, thinking of going 72v hopefully I can actually use the whole motor.
At one point I thought maybe it wasn't a 3kw motor, but looking at other 3kw motors it looks very similar in size if not exactly the same.
It's a rear hub motor taking up almost half of the back wheel, in reality probably 1/3 of the wheel, it extends passed the brake pads which are pretty monstrous themselves.
DECENT VIDEO, I LIKE THAT YOU WERE BIASED IN THIS VIDEO, I HATE PEOPLE THAT SLAM 250 WATT HUBS, I HAVE A ANCHEER 16" BIKE, WITH A 250 WATT, 36 VOLT HUB, AND IT WORKS GREAT FOR ME, 2 POINTS THAT YOU MADE IN THE VIDEO, IS THE LEVEL OF TERRAIN, AND THE WEIGHT OF THE RIDER, AND THAT IS VERY TRUE, I LIVE IN A CITY THAT IS ALMOST ALL FLAT TERRAIN AND I AM A LIGHT WEIGHT RIDER, EVEN THOUGH I HAVE A LOW POWER BIKE, I DO NOT NOTICE, IT GETS, UP TO SPEED DECENT AND I CAN RIDE MANY MILES WITHOUT PEDDLING, WHERE YOU LIVE AND RIDE HAS THE BIGGEST PART ON WHAT WATTAGE AND VOLT IS SUITABLE, I LIKE YOU MADE THAT POINT, I LIKE THE VIDEOS WHERE PEOPLE ARE BIASED, I GET SO TIRED OF VIDEOS ON HUBS AND EBIKES THAT CUT DOWN ANY EBIKE UNDER A CERTAIN WATTAGE AND VOLTAGE, NOT EVERYONE WANTS A HIGH END BIKE, AND MOST PEOPLE CANT AFFORD TO SPEND THOUSANDS ON AN EBIKE, I HAVE HAD MY EBIKE FOR ABOUT A YEAR, AND THE BIKE IS GREAT, I HAVE HAD MINOR ISSUES, MOSTLY NOISES FROM BUMPS, AND I HAVE FOUND WAYS TO ELIMINATE THE NOISES, I FEEL THAT MOST EBIKES ARE AWESOME IN GENERAL, I KNOW THERE ARE SOME EBIKES THAT ARE JUNK, BUT IF YOU KNOW WHAT ARE LOOKING FOR YOU CAN FIND SOMETHING THAT YOU WILL BE HAPPY WITH, I AM STILL VERY HAPPY WITH MY 16" ANCHEER, I THOUGHT HOW INTERESTING IT WOULD BE TO MAKE THIS EBIKE A SLEEPER, I ALSO THOUGHT HOW SCARRY FAST IT WOULD BE IF I DID THAT, BUT ITS CALLED MONEY AND A LITTLE TIME, GREAT VIDEO
I ordered a "250 watt front wheel conversion set" on ebay. They sent me a 1000 watt version without even telling me. It's great fun to ride even though its not strictly road-legal in my country (250 watts is the limit here).
What bike would you suggest for your 73 year old senior? I have had hip surgery but DR says riding will be good for me. We live flatland and have bike paths.
I have learned a lot from your posts.
Thanks for this, clean and simple. I am more interested in figuring out how many watts they use on average (say 75kg rider) on relatively flat ground to go say 10 km. Cheers
IOW, it depends. On your weight, terrain flat to hilly, wind, tire pressure, battery condition state & voltage, mid/hub drive, your personal output power, your expectations, controller, bike efficiency.
I bought a 21 sp mountain bike, a 1500 watt rear hub drive and a 52 volt 20 ah battery with no china cells. slicks front and rear @60psi. The wires to the motor seems a little small and noticed they got a little warm after ridding fast..did a voltage drop on each leg and got 1 to 1.2 voltage drop on each leg so i replaced them with wire from local hobby shop...14 gauge 100 strand silicone pretty much the same wire as the controller...noticeable difference...it used to run the same speed at 2/3 throttle as full throttle...now full throttle is full throttle. It ran 38 gps today on flat ground...is that about right for the combination? First time messing with one of these deals...i remembered the slicks from a mountain bike i had 30 years ago..i remember they were like ridding down hill all the time...i guess bicycle geometry was not intended for much past 30..mine had a twitchy thing going on that i didnt much care for. i put the forks in a press and bent about 3* more rake in it...it is happy a little past 40 and a car tow...I have another bike, one of those honda deals..cbr1100xx blackbird..about 175 hp and 191 gps...like the ebike almost as nuch..the honda is a little hard on my driving record..guess 750vwatts is the limit for street use...cant get a speeding ticket on a bike? I did get one when i was a kid. Ye old schwinn 10 speed blazing through a canyon,,,35 in a 25...mom was so pissed..at the cop..lol
Thanks for the informative info. I have learned valuable information on hub motors vs. wheel motors and battery performance!
Thank you. You have a kind smile. 😃
I would be interested in factors that maximize speed. Is gearing a mid-drive more important than the wattage for achieving higher speeds? How important is the batteries voltage etc.? I'm more interested in electric motorcycles as opposed to bikes.
It seems to me that what you "need" really depends on what you consider to be an "eBike". Are we talking about pedal-assistance, where the motor helps you out a little or are we talking basically electric motorcycles posing as bicycles?
A Tour de France cyclist may put out an average of about 375 watts by himself. And he can climb hills just fine. Adding a 250 watt motor, combined with pedal power, to a bicycle will essentially catapult any old lady right into the league of competative cyclists. A 500 watt motor will give you the sprint power of Lance Armstrong without even having to touch the pedals.
If you say you need more than 500 watts to "get up the hill", it feels to me we're talking about electric motorcycles here, not eBikes. Bicycles don't "need" to go 30+ mph uphill.
What are the odds that another Grant was wondering about the same thing and I happen to come across your video? Lol Thanks for the information brother. 🙏💯
It also matters how you want to use your bike. If you want some assistance to climb hills and still want to use your own power a good 250w would be good no?
I'd be interested in also knowing what the options are if one is say, 50 miles from home when the battery dies. Does the difficulty in pedaling go up with the power of the motor?
If your using a geared motor, be it mid drive or hub, the only thing you have to contend with is the weight of the motor and battery. There is no resistance caused by the motor.
Best way to determine real performance of your motor is to look at its controller. My motor is rated 500 watts, but it comes with a 36v and 22 amp controller. That means it can and does put out up to 790 watts of power. Also not all hub motors are the same. 500 watt internally geared hub motors provide significantly better torque then direct drive motors. Thus my 500 watt, internally geared motor actually performs on hills closer to that of a 1000 watt direct drive hub motor.
I can be sure of this because I weigh over 200 pounds, and my bike, with its massive 33ah battery with homemade wood and alu enclosure, steel frame SS bike, rack and panniers, motorscooter light kit + wire harness, lock and accessories weighs in at about 75 pounds. It still gets me up the hills in my town, though it does bog down a bit. On my SS bike, I chose a gear ratio that is too low to help at the motors top speed but is better suited to assisting the motor up hills.
Great video mate, cheers from Down Under...
Great video:) i agree i have my 1500w hub running at peak of 1900w and while a peak of 1500w is good and can keep up with most traffic it struggles to accelerate uphill above 36kmh, 1900w on the otherhand can accelerate you up to that 45-50kmh range on some fairly steep hills.
Very informative. As an older guy, I'm interested in obtaining an ebike for bow hunting in a wildlife management area near my home. Bikes are allowed. I'm leaning towards a 750 watt fat tire bike with fenders and big rack in the rear. Perhaps a little tow behind carrier.
I have a 250watt Haibike Xduro Hardtail Bosh mid drive motor system 29er and I can climb any
hill in the Lowest level of pedal assist. And I also have a 2014 Easymotion Neo Jumper with a 350watt hub motor and I can also climb any hill in the lowest level of pedal assist , it also has a throttle. So I really disagree with what you say the lower powered Ebikes are capable of.And I also have 3 other 20 inch ebikes not mentioned that are extremely capable.
@Steven Soco Awesome bro
I saw a Bafang factory tour video the other day . In that video the tour guide made mention of a 1 kw motor they make. I bet that would make for a super torque bike ! How much battery would you have to have to make it work right ? I think this would make a very strong street bike if limited to 20mph . My personal choice would be a single speed with a gates carbon fiber belt set up.
Micah, if you revisit this video, might be good to explain how the motor sizing may impact your mileage range. I know that gets complex.
most motors don't have a rating. you need to pay attention to the wire gauge being used in construction.(feed lines and stator windings)and maximum wattage output. I moded a serengetti panther electric scooter because the max wattage rating was 1100 on a 500w motor. so I installed a variable voltage 48-60vdc controller with a 1200 watt max at 800w usage and a 3 speed throttle and never looked back. the SLA batteries last about 2 yrs. I never had enough cash in pocket to buy lithium yet. it came with lithium but was under powered by factory and failed.
I would really like for you to do a video in riding in couple inches of snow and ice. I mean like what kind of tires,battery care etc. Thank you
I'd love to hear your opinion on how important the different types of suspension are. Including not just front and rear but also seat-post suspension and plus size or fat tyres. It would be fun to test a dual suspension fat bike with seat-post suspension and a gel seat!!! :)
Can you do a side by side comparison over different terrain? From like no suspension to super mega crazy level just for fun.
Gel seats by in large are a joke because they're just shaped wrong. Your butt is a bulge so it should not ride on another bulge, it should be cupped. Schwinn makes just such a seat.
I would like to see more about seat post suspensions especially for us larger (250#) riders. I've been shopping for one but kind of surprise no one exactly mentions larger riders when I have tried to google it up.
@Steven Soco I get seasick easily so it could be bouncy bouncy.. hello lunch, we meet again. :)
I've just ordered a 250 watt e-trike here in The U.K. which is the legal limit. I'm 230 pounds and have hills around the area I live so a bit worried and I want to use it for shopping also.
Good video. You should go over spokes sizes and other things that should be addressed or added on, when increasing the power of the motors, so the bike can handle it without a failure or breaking some thing. Maybe weak points in bikes that need to be inspected regularly as well when using motors would make a good video as well. Keep up the great work.
Spoke size is a HUGE issue. I was running a normal bike with normal sized spokes hauling a huge load and when a spoke broke the whole Aluminum cargo rack broke on the side too. After that I rebuilt it with a new wheel from bikeman4u.com and bought a high quality heavy duty wheel with 11gauge spokes and a new cargo rack. Bike was a dream after that.
Spokes really seem to be the key to that formula. And now I can't find a wheel with anything thicker than 12 g spokes. I'd build a touring bike with larger spokes, too, if it were up to me. The weight is negligible and the reliability benefit is huge.
I just broke 2spokes a couple of days ago, waiting for replacement as it's a odd size. Pot holes plus tubeless might not have been best set up, going to switch back to tube and see how that goes.
In this case battery power has to do with range basically. A 48v500w motor with a 10ah bat will run less mile then a 14ah battery on the same motor. Correct me if I am wrong.