I think I did OK selecting my first E bike having not watched any technical videos prior to ordering. You videos are extremely helpful! I’m 70 why should the kids have all the fun….
Just to add my experience. I have a 250w motor with pedal assist as that's the road legal standard here in UK. I consume less than 6wh per mile. This is riding at about 15 mph average on roads with only small hills putting a medium amount of effort in. I weight about 65kg.
I’m finding a 500wh batt is fine for me, I ride for fun around steep hills and muddy UK conditions. And often ride around 20miles for about 2 hours (or a bit less). I do get a work out with those numbers (due to more extreme off road conditions I ride) So I would deff want a bigger batt if I wanted a lazy day.
Hello, I have a 48 volt 10 amp battery with a 500-watt Hub motor. 98% of my bike ride is done on level 2 assist about 10 miles an hour using pedaling and with the help of the motor. What I've trained myself to do over my ride, is turn the pedal assist completely off pedaling with no motor assistance. There's two benefits to this number one longer run time on the battery charge, number two or exercise. I mostly do this in the more flat sections and on slight Hills, keeping the motor assistance for steeper Hills or if I just plain feel lazy.
Hi Micah! Great videos and information! I have your DIY Lithium Battery book and am learning a lot though it’s taking me awhile to wrap my brain around it. I hope to build my own Powerwall someday. I appreciate your enthusiasm and contribution to clean energy adoption! Keep up the good work, man!
I am really enjoying your channel. As a Canadian it is always nice to hear the option you always seem to give with the metric system! Thank you for that!!
I'm Learning so mutch from you.i thank you so so mutch. I'm fixing to get ME well a walmart bike. And build my very first ebike. It's you along with others I see here on UA-cam that inspires me and gives me the knowledge to do. Thank you so mutch.
I'm building my own battery, thanks to your guides 😉 i've prioritized power delivery and reasonable weight. I have 80 samsung 30T cells, in a 20s4p configuration. Up to 140A continuous, 72V nominal, 12,000mAh. Not the greatest range, i'm expecting 12 miles or so, but the bike will be very fast.
These calculations we tries the same, thank you for supporting the calculations. Now we have only issue how to maintain speed as with battery level going down, the RPM starts degrading.
I use my Bosch mid drive 250w motor class 1 e-bike for touring. This is a European spec bike so the motor cuts out at 16 mph. I usually stay on the eco mode unless a lot of hills. I am a cyclist after all.... I get around 60 -65 miles per battery. I have a 400 and a 500 Bosch battery. I carry an extra battery. So I have over 100 miles of range. My standard daily distance is 60 miles. I also tow a trailer.
Good sharing sir. I know nothing about batteries and electrical stuff, after finish reading your DIY lithium batteries book, it helps me understand lots of things. I guess i would buy all your books collection
Thank you for giving these general rule of thumb estimates. I am a big guy getting my first ebike in a few weeks that is equipped with dual batteries, so this will help me estimate when I may leave the second battery at home to save a little weight.
I actually went and halved my battery pack since my commute is short and my cells can handle an insane discharge rate. So I am now running an 8 AH pack with another 8 AH pack in reserve. I am planning on making a y cable that would parallel the packs for a 16 AH pack for those times I need some range. I figured why carry the weight of a battery I wasn't using. Most days, even with a trip to the grocery store after work my voltage is still above the nominal pack voltage of 37 v when I get home, generally I finish the day at 38.5 V.
Seems like a great idea to run dual packs. One thing I'm finding though is at higher power levels above 1000w the smaller battery packs have a harder time handling the higher voltage sag.
I run a 26 inch fat tire bike with 2 hub motors and 2 batteries 36v 12 ah. I run pedal assist all the way cranking out pretty fast except for throttling down hill. I am 6ft 250lbs and get a really good 10 mile round trip work out with both batteries at about 40% full when I return. I can’t imagine ever going back to a regular mountain bike again. BTW; The DIY lithium battery book is worth getting just for the diagrams. Thanks
I have a small 384 Wh RC lipo pack I use when I'm trail riding in the hills, or when I go shopping etc, it's light and compact enough that I carry it in a small backpack. I have another 1000 Wh pack I mount on the bike for long rides, mostly I use he small pack.
My new battery is unitpackpower triangle 52v 28ah samsung 35e cell and it's amazing. With bafang bbshd and 3 inch tyre I get around 45 miles with full throttle. I wouldn't consider a smaller battery unless I have to fit it in a dual suspension bike frame.
Thanks a lot man! I'm planning a long range ebike, with like 150km range or so, on throttle at 40kmph , these calculations will definitely help me a lot! I'll be making a custom battery with 500 18650 cells 20s25p rated at 2900mah each. :) I plan on doing long road trips with it to hill stations around 300km away from where I live. Batteries are rated 3C, so even a 1C charging should charge it within an hour, when we stop for food or something
Very good information! I have a 14 Ah battery and it works well for me. I normally ride about 20 miles at a time and have some good sized hills. My voltage drops from 42 volts to about 37 volts by the end of the ride. I'm not sure is that is typical or not.
Great overview. My experience has been similar, my numbers are in agreement. A few things to add about battery size, or more specifically why I believe it is important to oversize your battery: -Range anxiety... Range anxiety is a very real thing with electric vehicles, it really takes away from the very enjoyable experience of whizzing about on your ebike. Getting stuck far away from your destination without power sucks donkeys, trust me. -You don't have to recharge every day, or after every ride. Even though it is simple to hook up your charger it can become annoying to do all the time. -You never have to pedal to get somewhere if you don't feel like it. You don't have to worry about riding efficiently, you can haul ass. Nice to be able to do that if you are late for work for instance. -Life expectancy of your battery. The more power you pull from your battery relative to it's output capability the more stress you put on it, reducing it's overall lifetime. A larger battery also allows you to not fully charge or discharge your battery(very important for li-ion batteries), which could potentially more than double the life expectancy. -Higher power output for longer periods of time. Your battery voltage drops as the battery discharges, with a larger battery you can spend longer in the higher voltage range(haul ass for longer). This is also better for the motor, motors heat up more at low voltages at a given power output. -Less voltage drop. Voltage drop sucks. -You can upgrade to a more powerful motor without having to upgrade your battery(assuming the new motor operates at a similar voltage). This all adds up to more enjoyment and pretty significant long term savings. The only downsides are greater up front cost and added weight. But even if you double the battery weight it's a pretty insignificant increase in overall weight compared to the weight of the bike and rider. Let's say you got from a 48 volt 10 amp hour battery to a 48 volt 20 amp hour battery, double the range with about a 6 lb increase in weight, low and centered on the bike, barely noticeable. Let's say the rider and bike weigh 200 lbs, a 6 lb increase would be 3%. I'm sure I missed a couple points, but do I even need to go on?
Agreed! I think we're going to start seeing more dual pack setups with one large integrated and a removable smaller one. The main reason for a larger pack for me is their ability to better handle the higher voltage sag when pulling 1500+ watts, but too large and you're just carrying dead weight.
I almost forgot the most important point. If you plan for a certain mileage capability then over time the capacity of the battery will drop off. It will drop to 80% more or less after 500 to 1000 full cycles, depending on how you treat it. If you oversize your battery it will do what you need it to do for WAY longer. If you double your battery capacity it could maintain a usable capacity practically forever. That's assuming a quality pack. And for the uninitiated, lead acid batteries are a horrible choice for ebikes. My first one was with 4 lead acid and they didn't last long and was dangerously heavy.
Based on the Grintech ebike simulator, and some nominal values, I was able to get a VERY GENERALIZED NOT ENTIRELY ACCURATE, but general battery energy usage per mile estimation for Hub Motor ebikes. Without throttle assist, on FLAT GROUND, meaning no inclines or declines, in no traffic: 25wh per mile at 20mph, 32wh per mile at 25mph, 45wh per mile at 30mph, and 60wh per mile at 35miles an hour.
I live in the foothills on the south side of Phoenix and weigh 160 pounds. Using PAS 2 and 3, I go 25 miles on a charge. My battery is 500 WH. If I creep up the big hill, my current is 13 amps vs 20 when I max it out. This gets me more range. In order to hopefully get a longer life from my battery, I now charge when I get below 50% rather than 15%.Range is therefore not a valid calculation anymore.
It would be helpful to share with us how you determine your 25Wh/mi and 15Wh/mi numbers. That way we can do that for ourselves and be more accurate in determining our own battery capacity needs.
What I've done is have my bike display battery voltage instead of percentage (which can be horribly inaccurate). I record my starting voltage, and my ending voltage after the ride. I then use a voltage chart for my battery type (52v) to determine the amount of charge consumed on the ride, then knowing the capacity of the battery (17Ah in my case) I can take 52v x 17Ah to arrive at 884Wh potential. Using the starting and ending voltages I can determine what percentage of that was used, lets say 17%, and knowing the distance I rode, lets say 10 miles, I can determine that 17% of 884Wh = 150Wh and 150Wh / 10 Miles = 15Wh/mile.
Peace and Blessings Micah!, Funny you should be discussing battery power and how much you need. Lol It's been a minute since I've been calling as they say in the South. Lol Been very busy on my second build. A few highlights: Mongoose Dolomite 26x4" (w/reinforced welds) a customized rear hub motor (5000w 100A )designed to reach 129km/85mph from SURINGMAX. Fine manufacturers of E-Motors for bikes, scooters, and motorcycle. You just tell them what you want and it's done. As a result I had to get insurance, and register it with DMV as a "E-Scooter. To ease the registration w/DMV I had the manufacturer stamp a label on the side of the motor that reads: "E-Scooter Motor" Lol. In fact they never look at it. I showed my virtual insurance card and gave the serial numbers for the Mongoose and the motor and it was a done deal! Question the 48v battery left over from my first build, I plan on series connecting to the 96v. More volts more power I've heard you say. Lol. The controller is rated at 100amps. Will this be safe to do? I also built a 8'x6' bike trailer w/ball hitch coupler and 3' side walls and tandem axles from a DIY kit from WIKEBIKE in Canada. Fine makers of bike trailers!! Prefabbed or DIY kits of various models. Stay tune for further updates and photos of finished project!!
Hi, I think other! 1. How much range do you want? 2. Where do you drive? Flat terrain oder mountain! 3. How much Watt have your engine? 3. How many support do you need? Level 1 or 5? 4. What is your weight? 5. How often do you want to charge? So my decision is on a 250V 24V on a 36V system : 1000W are fine for me...
Dude your vids have helped me no end…. Can I donate ?? Thanks mate, I really appreciate it…. Just ordered the mrs a 1500w csc rear wheel kit to build her an ebike. Also building my own 52v 18ah battery to run it all…. I’ve learnt so much in these last 3 days. 80% of learnable info came from your vids, so more than happy to donate and say thanks 🙏 😊
I got the 54.7volt 14amp battery 🔋 on my Letric XP 2.0 long range It says 65miles on pedal assist 1 I ride on pedal assist 2-3 max I got 16.6miles riding yesterday with hills and streets and I used just a few volts I was at 51V at the end of my ride still over 75%battery left Highly recommend this bike amazing
To convert Amp hours & volts to Watt hours.... Ah x V = Wh 10 amp hour 48 volt pack would be...480 watt hours. Actually, a bit more since nominal voltage would be 52 or so, but u get the idea.
Wind hills and tire pressure are the biggest issues , if you can run 100psi tires do it it will give you about an extra 5 miles or more. If you can avoid hills even better . Wind will kill your battery very fast
My 16 incher Fiido D2S weights 21 to 22 kg. It has a 6-month old 36V × 7.8Ah battery and 250W rear hub motor. It covers 38.4 km of paved road which is 75 percent flat, 5 percent 20 degree inclined uphill in 1hr 30min. I use pedal assist only, no throttling. I weight 68-70kg. It seems 12W/mi or 7.3W/km is my factor.
Normally, when i buy a new ebike, i will divide by 2 the range whatever the manufacturer claims. The range the manufacturer cliams; is usually based on the most energy efficient way of riding the bike,aka impractical daily use(constant flat terrains, lowest gear/slowest speed(slower than 10km/h), no added weight( don't tell me you're not gonna carry any weight, not to mention additional bike rack and basket))
That's cool, so I should expect around the 100 mile mark maybe slightly over for my 60v nominal 1,500 watt bike. The battery is 60v×20amp=1,500wh. I won't be going over 15mph so I'm going to see around the 100 mile area from it maybe slightly more.
i'm thinking main battery that the down tube envelops and extra battery that attaches on top the down tube - to keep the center of mass lower. front and rear motors. enclosed gearbox - pinion style my dream snow bike would include these items and more.
Hi! Really good channel! I saw that you used the Swytch-kit on you bike in the video. I was thinking of getting that but I have between 11-13km single way to work. Can't decide between the ECO (180wh) or Pro (250wh) or maybe something else, it seems that if I get a conversion kit and fix it myself I will get a bigger battery that is cheaper but it's easier to take the Swytch kit with you if you pop into a store. How would you rate the Swytch? Great video, thanks! Edit: Would you say 35 km is correct? With you calculations is more like 20km
I have built one of these chain drive ebikes . They aren't very difficult but you do need the right kind of bike or else you will have to modify the motor bracket. I installed a 250 watt motor on a cruiser bike and it goes about 15 mph on the flat road. These kits are a little more difficult to install compared to a hub motor but it is hard to beat the price. I spent about $300 on my ebike. The bike was $93, the motor kit $75 and the battery $80. I currently have 425 miles on the bike so it is fairly durable too.
@@jeffholmes9483 I wanted to buy same kit you have but the 450w for my son so I have capability later to go faster if I use a smaller battery like 24v will it slow it down or will it not work with 36v controller?
@@bignuts9198 Most of the places that I have seen selling this kits have a motor specification sheet. It is my understanding that the main difference between the 24v and 36v motor is the gear reduction in them. I don't want to tell you what to do but basically increasing the voltage will increase top speed. For example i bought a use Ezip scooter for my son to use at college and it ran on 24v lead acid batteries. I replaced them with a 36v lithium battery and got about a 50% increase in speed. It is actually a little more than 50% because of the weight reduction of the the batteries. His top speed was right at 13mph and with the lithium 36v pack it is right at 24mph. On a side note that is scary fast on that little scooter. I didn't change the controller or the motor just the battery. The way I might approach your situation is to buy the 24v 450w motor and run it stock for your son but when you want more speed just buy a new 36v controller and 36v battery. I originally bought the 36v 250w motor but have recently ordered the 24v 450w to put on my ebike to see if it will increase the top speed. I'm still waiting for it to come in. As for the controllers they are cheap, I bought a backup 500w controller for $12 on Amazon. Most of these kits use a YK31c controller and they are easy to find. I hope this has helped. I will warn you, make sure you choose a bike the motor bracket will fit on. I made a cardboard template of the motor bracket and went to the store holding it up to any bike i liked until I found one that would work. I still had to modify the bracket to get the chain to line up.
Calculate what you need then multiply it by 1.5. You don't want to run your batter 100% to 0% each ride and it will really start to slow down below 20%. If you calculate that you need 400Wh then get a 600Wh battery.
You need as much battery as you can afford. It's never too much battery. I never hear from peoples "I wish I have a smaller battery", but usually peoples want to have a chance to remove and charge battery out of ebike or scooter for swap(delivery guys for example) and have second battery.
Actually I have too big a battery, no question. It was my first build, and I got sucked into that "well, if I spend a little more I could get that extra amount" cycle. Now I have this giant, heavy battery that I never use up on a ride, looks like an enormous blob on the bike, and is totally awkward to carry around when I remove it at my destination. Now that I know my style of ebike riding (ave speed, power usage, etc) I know that a smaller (lighter, more compact) battery would work better for me.
Truth, we'll definitely start seeing more dual battery pack setups like wattwagons or r&m - eBikes are starting to be viewed as transportation vehicles.
I wish someone covered the same topic for e-mopeds. This would put a dent in the pockets of all the goofs who sell people underpowered e-mopeds. 12 Ah 48 volt battery, seriously? You need AT LEAST 15 Ah, most optimal is 20 Ah and 60-90 volts, in that case you will actually be able to handle some pretty serious hills and can take on a second rider. And would be able to cover 60-70 km as a single rider.
Good video I’m 250 lbs, riding on flat ground, over the first 300 miles I have averaged 3o miles per charge. I have not tried throttle only on my Lectric xp, but based on your video I should expect to get 15 miles on throttle only. I’m also doing mostly pas 2 with some minor pas 3. Does that sound right to you?
I think I did OK selecting my first E bike having not watched any technical videos prior to ordering. You videos are extremely helpful! I’m 70 why should the kids have all the fun….
😭 go grandpapa 😂
Bless you .
Amazing, hopefully you're still riding around at 72 now!🙏
Just to add my experience. I have a 250w motor with pedal assist as that's the road legal standard here in UK. I consume less than 6wh per mile. This is riding at about 15 mph average on roads with only small hills putting a medium amount of effort in. I weight about 65kg.
Thanks! This information was just what I was looking for, subscribed.
Ross
I’m finding a 500wh batt is fine for me, I ride for fun around steep hills and muddy UK conditions. And often ride around 20miles for about 2 hours (or a bit less).
I do get a work out with those numbers (due to more extreme off road conditions I ride)
So I would deff want a bigger batt if I wanted a lazy day.
Hello, I have a 48 volt 10 amp battery with a 500-watt Hub motor. 98% of my bike ride is done on level 2 assist about 10 miles an hour using pedaling and with the help of the motor. What I've trained myself to do over my ride, is turn the pedal assist completely off pedaling with no motor assistance. There's two benefits to this number one longer run time on the battery charge, number two or exercise. I mostly do this in the more flat sections and on slight Hills, keeping the motor assistance for steeper Hills or if I just plain feel lazy.
I do the same but just use the throttle when needed for hills. It gets me 30 miles on a charge most of the time given my Terrain
Great talk as always. I’m building a peddle assist bike and a electric motorcycle, your talks and books have been very helpful.
I have watched your videos for about a year or so, and have learn about ebikes mostly from your channel. Thanks.
Hi Micah! Great videos and information! I have your DIY Lithium Battery book and am learning a lot though it’s taking me awhile to wrap my brain around it. I hope to build my own Powerwall someday. I appreciate your enthusiasm and contribution to clean energy adoption! Keep up the good work, man!
I am really enjoying your channel. As a Canadian it is always nice to hear the option you always seem to give with the metric system! Thank you for that!!
Funny how he gives his weight in Kg.
I'm Learning so mutch from you.i thank you so so mutch. I'm fixing to get ME well a walmart bike. And build my very first ebike. It's you along with others I see here on UA-cam that inspires me and gives me the knowledge to do. Thank you so mutch.
I'm building my own battery, thanks to your guides 😉 i've prioritized power delivery and reasonable weight. I have 80 samsung 30T cells, in a 20s4p configuration. Up to 140A continuous, 72V nominal, 12,000mAh. Not the greatest range, i'm expecting 12 miles or so, but the bike will be very fast.
Good luck with that battery caps are stainless . Solder won't stick with a solder iron . Learn how to weld !
@@onetailgunner all the cells are spot welded, yes.
These calculations we tries the same, thank you for supporting the calculations. Now we have only issue how to maintain speed as with battery level going down, the RPM starts degrading.
You could use a step up converter to keep voltage constant?
I use my Bosch mid drive 250w motor class 1 e-bike for touring. This is a European spec bike so the motor cuts out at 16 mph. I usually stay on the eco mode unless a lot of hills. I am a cyclist after all.... I get around 60 -65 miles per battery. I have a 400 and a 500 Bosch battery. I carry an extra battery. So I have over 100 miles of range. My standard daily distance is 60 miles. I also tow a trailer.
Good sharing sir. I know nothing about batteries and electrical stuff, after finish reading your DIY lithium batteries book, it helps me understand lots of things. I guess i would buy all your books collection
Thank you for giving these general rule of thumb estimates. I am a big guy getting my first ebike in a few weeks that is equipped with dual batteries, so this will help me estimate when I may leave the second battery at home to save a little weight.
Thanks, Micah. Good video. I love the way you keep things simple for relative noobs. We gotta do whatever we can to get more folks edumacated!
Great channel I just finished 1500w mountain Bike conversion super happy with it ,and could not have done it without your channels help cheers mate !!
Is a 13amp battery ok for 1500w mountain bike ?
Very informative in selecting battery strength. I enjoy your videos.
congrats on hitting 100k, you're way past it now as I'm commenting, very helpful videos
Im planning on purchasing an ebike. You're videos have been very helpful. Thanks, and looking forward to the next one.
I actually went and halved my battery pack since my commute is short and my cells can handle an insane discharge rate. So I am now running an 8 AH pack with another 8 AH pack in reserve. I am planning on making a y cable that would parallel the packs for a 16 AH pack for those times I need some range. I figured why carry the weight of a battery I wasn't using. Most days, even with a trip to the grocery store after work my voltage is still above the nominal pack voltage of 37 v when I get home, generally I finish the day at 38.5 V.
Seems like a great idea to run dual packs. One thing I'm finding though is at higher power levels above 1000w the smaller battery packs have a harder time handling the higher voltage sag.
I run a 26 inch fat tire bike with 2 hub motors and 2 batteries 36v 12 ah. I run pedal assist all the way cranking out pretty fast except for throttling down hill. I am 6ft 250lbs and get a really good 10 mile round trip work out with both batteries at about 40% full when I return. I can’t imagine ever going back to a regular mountain bike again. BTW; The DIY lithium battery book is worth getting just for the diagrams. Thanks
I have a small 384 Wh RC lipo pack I use when I'm trail riding in the hills, or when I go shopping etc, it's light and compact enough that I carry it in a small backpack. I have another 1000 Wh pack I mount on the bike for long rides, mostly I use he small pack.
My new battery is unitpackpower triangle 52v 28ah samsung 35e cell and it's amazing. With bafang bbshd and 3 inch tyre I get around 45 miles with full throttle. I wouldn't consider a smaller battery unless I have to fit it in a dual suspension bike frame.
Where i can buy your same specs of battery, plaese any details on how to buy online and price. 😊
Thanks a lot man! I'm planning a long range ebike, with like 150km range or so, on throttle at 40kmph , these calculations will definitely help me a lot! I'll be making a custom battery with 500 18650 cells 20s25p rated at 2900mah each. :) I plan on doing long road trips with it to hill stations around 300km away from where I live. Batteries are rated 3C, so even a 1C charging should charge it within an hour, when we stop for food or something
Post a video of it when your done. Would like to see.
Thank you for all your awesome information! I so appreciate that you no longer use that annoying background music while you talk.
Always interesting and informative vids. Thanks, 76 and still pedaling (with assist)
you speak very well, and your a great teacher..your so easy to understand, thanks bro.
Very good information! I have a 14 Ah battery and it works well for me. I normally ride about 20 miles at a time and have some good sized hills. My voltage drops from 42 volts to about 37 volts by the end of the ride. I'm not sure is that is typical or not.
That is about right.
Thank you so much for the education. I have been so confused about batteries and information that I really appreciate your videos.
Great overview. My experience has been similar, my numbers are in agreement. A few things to add about battery size, or more specifically why I believe it is important to oversize your battery:
-Range anxiety... Range anxiety is a very real thing with electric vehicles, it really takes away from the very enjoyable experience of whizzing about on your ebike. Getting stuck far away from your destination without power sucks donkeys, trust me.
-You don't have to recharge every day, or after every ride. Even though it is simple to hook up your charger it can become annoying to do all the time.
-You never have to pedal to get somewhere if you don't feel like it. You don't have to worry about riding efficiently, you can haul ass. Nice to be able to do that if you are late for work for instance.
-Life expectancy of your battery. The more power you pull from your battery relative to it's output capability the more stress you put on it, reducing it's overall lifetime. A larger battery also allows you to not fully charge or discharge your battery(very important for li-ion batteries), which could potentially more than double the life expectancy.
-Higher power output for longer periods of time. Your battery voltage drops as the battery discharges, with a larger battery you can spend longer in the higher voltage range(haul ass for longer). This is also better for the motor, motors heat up more at low voltages at a given power output.
-Less voltage drop. Voltage drop sucks.
-You can upgrade to a more powerful motor without having to upgrade your battery(assuming the new motor operates at a similar voltage).
This all adds up to more enjoyment and pretty significant long term savings. The only downsides are greater up front cost and added weight. But even if you double the battery weight it's a pretty insignificant increase in overall weight compared to the weight of the bike and rider. Let's say you got from a 48 volt 10 amp hour battery to a 48 volt 20 amp hour battery, double the range with about a 6 lb increase in weight, low and centered on the bike, barely noticeable. Let's say the rider and bike weigh 200 lbs, a 6 lb increase would be 3%.
I'm sure I missed a couple points, but do I even need to go on?
Good comments! I agree that bigger is always better (Unless space and weight are a concern).
Agreed! I think we're going to start seeing more dual pack setups with one large integrated and a removable smaller one. The main reason for a larger pack for me is their ability to better handle the higher voltage sag when pulling 1500+ watts, but too large and you're just carrying dead weight.
I almost forgot the most important point. If you plan for a certain mileage capability then over time the capacity of the battery will drop off. It will drop to 80% more or less after 500 to 1000 full cycles, depending on how you treat it. If you oversize your battery it will do what you need it to do for WAY longer. If you double your battery capacity it could maintain a usable capacity practically forever. That's assuming a quality pack. And for the uninitiated, lead acid batteries are a horrible choice for ebikes. My first one was with 4 lead acid and they didn't last long and was dangerously heavy.
Really good comment
Range anxiety is a thing and I experienced it quite a bit in my first EV but my eBike has pedals so at least I can still keep going :)
thanks for the lesson! Nice to know about it, i just bought one e-bike...waiting it to come!
Bro we share the same name and this is exactly what kind of video I needed. Thanks so much!
Early congratz on 100k! That's awesome!
Great info for the new eBike buyer who wants to know whether they may need a spare battery
Really informative video toady, Micah! Congratulations in advance for hitting 100,000 subscribers!!!
well done mate, good info, excellent delivery, keep up the good werk!
Thanks for helping me get closer to my first DIY ebike!
These are very instructive love the information I am in the process of creating a fat tire 48/ 1500 AWD ebike. Thanks for all the great knowledge.
Nice, sounds like a fun build!
Same here... waiting for the stuff now to arrive from Ali-express.
You don't want to discharge your battery too low so you should add a margin. Usually the ESC's already include a small margin to prevent battery life.
Thank you you video was very helpful giving some parameters for looking for battery selection!
Based on the Grintech ebike simulator, and some nominal values, I was able to get a VERY GENERALIZED NOT ENTIRELY ACCURATE, but general battery energy usage per mile estimation for Hub Motor ebikes.
Without throttle assist, on FLAT GROUND, meaning no inclines or declines, in no traffic:
25wh per mile at 20mph, 32wh per mile at 25mph, 45wh per mile at 30mph, and 60wh per mile at 35miles an hour.
I live in the foothills on the south side of Phoenix and weigh 160 pounds. Using PAS 2 and 3, I go 25 miles on a charge. My battery is 500 WH. If I creep up the big hill, my current is 13 amps vs 20 when I max it out. This gets me more range. In order to hopefully get a longer life from my battery, I now charge when I get below 50% rather than 15%.Range is therefore not a valid calculation anymore.
It would be helpful to share with us how you determine your 25Wh/mi and 15Wh/mi numbers. That way we can do that for ourselves and be more accurate in determining our own battery capacity needs.
What I've done is have my bike display battery voltage instead of percentage (which can be horribly inaccurate). I record my starting voltage, and my ending voltage after the ride. I then use a voltage chart for my battery type (52v) to determine the amount of charge consumed on the ride, then knowing the capacity of the battery (17Ah in my case) I can take 52v x 17Ah to arrive at 884Wh potential. Using the starting and ending voltages I can determine what percentage of that was used, lets say 17%, and knowing the distance I rode, lets say 10 miles, I can determine that 17% of 884Wh = 150Wh and 150Wh / 10 Miles = 15Wh/mile.
Peace and Blessings Micah!,
Funny you should be discussing battery power and how much you need. Lol
It's been a minute since I've been calling as they say in the South. Lol Been very busy on my second build. A few highlights: Mongoose Dolomite 26x4" (w/reinforced welds) a customized rear hub motor (5000w 100A )designed to reach 129km/85mph from SURINGMAX. Fine manufacturers of E-Motors for bikes, scooters, and motorcycle. You just tell them what you want and it's done. As a result I had to get insurance, and register it with DMV as a "E-Scooter. To ease the registration w/DMV I had the manufacturer stamp a label on the side of the motor that reads: "E-Scooter Motor" Lol. In fact they never look at it. I showed my virtual insurance card and gave the serial numbers for the Mongoose and the motor and it was a done deal! Question the 48v battery left over from my first build, I plan on series connecting to the 96v. More volts more power I've heard you say. Lol. The controller is rated at 100amps. Will this be safe to do? I also built a 8'x6' bike trailer w/ball hitch coupler and 3' side walls and tandem axles from a DIY kit from WIKEBIKE in Canada. Fine makers of bike trailers!! Prefabbed or DIY kits of various models. Stay tune for further updates and photos of finished project!!
Hi, I think other!
1. How much range do you want?
2. Where do you drive? Flat terrain oder mountain!
3. How much Watt have your engine?
3. How many support do you need? Level 1 or 5?
4. What is your weight?
5. How often do you want to charge?
So my decision is on a 250V 24V on a 36V system : 1000W are fine for me...
Good to see this excellent channel growing!
Always worth my time! Keep it up.
Dude your vids have helped me no end…. Can I donate ??
Thanks mate, I really appreciate it…. Just ordered the mrs a 1500w csc rear wheel kit to build her an ebike. Also building my own 52v 18ah battery to run it all…. I’ve learnt so much in these last 3 days. 80% of learnable info came from your vids, so more than happy to donate and say thanks 🙏 😊
I got the 54.7volt 14amp battery 🔋 on my Letric XP 2.0 long range
It says 65miles on pedal assist 1
I ride on pedal assist 2-3 max
I got 16.6miles riding yesterday with hills and streets and I used just a few volts I was at 51V at the end of my ride still over 75%battery left
Highly recommend this bike amazing
Good educational video. Thanks
I always look forward to your informational videos
Last few lines were lovely
Thank you for yet another informative video!!! So grateful for this. Be safe man!
Thank you so much for your invaluable information, highly appreciate it, keep it up the outstanding job, have a great day.
Nice video. You are a really a good Ebike teacher.
Thanks Micah, looking forward to the next one, congrats on your subscribers!
Awesome video. Can't wait to listen to your other ones and read your books. thanks
To convert Amp hours & volts to Watt hours.... Ah x V = Wh
10 amp hour 48 volt pack would be...480 watt hours. Actually, a bit more since nominal voltage would be 52 or so, but u get the idea.
Gotta love algebra! It is a pretty simple equation, but only after you play with it a few times.
Nominal voltage of a 48v LiIon battery would be 13 x 3.7V or 48.1V.
51.8V would be a 14S pack.
Always staying true to your name brand! I appreciate you.
good topic , thanks for video, just about to build one using 71200 cells, will be 302 watt battery ( Brompton )
Wind hills and tire pressure are the biggest issues , if you can run 100psi tires do it it will give you about an extra 5 miles or more. If you can avoid hills even better . Wind will kill your battery very fast
Thanks for all the helpful information.
Great book the battery book just need the ebike book now
Well done on your subscriber count - really good channel - can't wait till next video
My 16 incher Fiido D2S weights 21 to 22 kg. It has a 6-month old 36V × 7.8Ah battery and 250W rear hub motor. It covers 38.4 km of paved road which is 75 percent flat, 5 percent 20 degree inclined uphill in 1hr 30min. I use pedal assist only, no throttling. I weight 68-70kg. It seems 12W/mi or 7.3W/km is my factor.
Well I just purchased a battery that's way to big but I already knew that. Great info this question always comes up in the group's
Interesting, I'm thinking of swapping the 500w hub motor for a 750w of same hub. Working out the pros and cons.
Congrats on 100k mate!
I love your videos, I'm learning so much from you.
Very logical. Thanks for doing this.
Normally, when i buy a new ebike, i will divide by 2 the range whatever the manufacturer claims. The range the manufacturer cliams; is usually based on the most energy efficient way of riding the bike,aka impractical daily use(constant flat terrains, lowest gear/slowest speed(slower than 10km/h), no added weight( don't tell me you're not gonna carry any weight, not to mention additional bike rack and basket))
great explanation on batteries
That's cool, so I should expect around the 100 mile mark maybe slightly over for my 60v nominal 1,500 watt bike.
The battery is 60v×20amp=1,500wh.
I won't be going over 15mph so I'm going to see around the 100 mile area from it maybe slightly more.
would love to see you build a belt driven ebike.
I got the e version of your battery book, it's been very helpful. You could have more illustrations for clarity though.
I am a teenager and i just got my first job 2 miles away. I would be so glad if I got the bike, love your channel and your content.
2 miles? You can walk that.
@@HansKeesom I bet he's fat
Thanks, Micah... this was a very informative video on the topic of battery selection.
Great video as usual thanks for this useful practical information 👍, looking forward to the next one.
Always good info in these videos.
ummm what is the red ute in your pic ?
FatAss David 1972 Datsun 620 with a 67 Vette 327. Profile should go to a couple videos years back.
@@cjz89civic i thought it looked like a datsun or celica, that would be fun to drive, i will have a look for the videos 😷👍🏼
You'll are the best to the best reviews and be totally honest and target the high and low class bike
Awesome guidelines!
Thanks for your presentation
Amazing video.. Helped me a lot with my purchase decision ..
As usual I always learn something new!
Very clear, nice presentation, a plus for you...
i'm thinking main battery that the down tube envelops and extra battery that attaches on top the down tube - to keep the center of mass lower.
front and rear motors.
enclosed gearbox - pinion style
my dream snow bike would include these items and more.
My numbers for a 220lb rider and absolute full out race riding at 30-35mph are 40-50wh/mi.
Hi! Really good channel! I saw that you used the Swytch-kit on you bike in the video. I was thinking of getting that but I have between 11-13km single way to work. Can't decide between the ECO (180wh) or Pro (250wh) or maybe something else, it seems that if I get a conversion kit and fix it myself I will get a bigger battery that is cheaper but it's easier to take the Swytch kit with you if you pop into a store. How would you rate the Swytch? Great video, thanks!
Edit: Would you say 35 km is correct? With you calculations is more like 20km
Thanks Micah. It was helpful for my next build. Be Well, JDQ.
I would love one of your books . Love the channel ! Your awesome 😎
wasn't there a budget chaindrive ebike in the works ? and the motorcycle conversion ,been wondering about that cool project .
I have built one of these chain drive ebikes . They aren't very difficult but you do need the right kind of bike or else you will have to modify the motor bracket. I installed a 250 watt motor on a cruiser bike and it goes about 15 mph on the flat road. These kits are a little more difficult to install compared to a hub motor but it is hard to beat the price. I spent about $300 on my ebike. The bike was $93, the motor kit $75 and the battery $80. I currently have 425 miles on the bike so it is fairly durable too.
@@jeffholmes9483 I wanted to buy same kit you have but the 450w for my son so I have capability later to go faster if I use a smaller battery like 24v will it slow it down or will it not work with 36v controller?
@@bignuts9198 Most of the places that I have seen selling this kits have a motor specification sheet. It is my understanding that the main difference between the 24v and 36v motor is the gear reduction in them. I don't want to tell you what to do but basically increasing the voltage will increase top speed. For example i bought a use Ezip scooter for my son to use at college and it ran on 24v lead acid batteries. I replaced them with a 36v lithium battery and got about a 50% increase in speed. It is actually a little more than 50% because of the weight reduction of the the batteries. His top speed was right at 13mph and with the lithium 36v pack it is right at 24mph. On a side note that is scary fast on that little scooter. I didn't change the controller or the motor just the battery. The way I might approach your situation is to buy the 24v 450w motor and run it stock for your son but when you want more speed just buy a new 36v controller and 36v battery. I originally bought the 36v 250w motor but have recently ordered the 24v 450w to put on my ebike to see if it will increase the top speed. I'm still waiting for it to come in. As for the controllers they are cheap, I bought a backup 500w controller for $12 on Amazon. Most of these kits use a YK31c controller and they are easy to find. I hope this has helped. I will warn you, make sure you choose a bike the motor bracket will fit on. I made a cardboard template of the motor bracket and went to the store holding it up to any bike i liked until I found one that would work. I still had to modify the bracket to get the chain to line up.
@@bignuts9198 Here is a link to a video I made reviewing the kit I installed. ua-cam.com/video/kY0gLNvRKS8/v-deo.html
@@jeffholmes9483 Thank you sir
Calculate what you need then multiply it by 1.5. You don't want to run your batter 100% to 0% each ride and it will really start to slow down below 20%. If you calculate that you need 400Wh then get a 600Wh battery.
I built a 20s 5P and have a lot of fun with it but I really should've gone for 7P.
You need as much battery as you can afford. It's never too much battery.
I never hear from peoples "I wish I have a smaller battery", but usually peoples want to have a chance to remove and charge battery out of ebike or scooter for swap(delivery guys for example) and have second battery.
Actually I have too big a battery, no question. It was my first build, and I got sucked into that "well, if I spend a little more I could get that extra amount" cycle. Now I have this giant, heavy battery that I never use up on a ride, looks like an enormous blob on the bike, and is totally awkward to carry around when I remove it at my destination. Now that I know my style of ebike riding (ave speed, power usage, etc) I know that a smaller (lighter, more compact) battery would work better for me.
I'm actually 95% of time going full speed, cruising a bit boring for me. I always trying to get a bit more output out if my scooter.
@@JohnEich You and the op are both right!
Truth, we'll definitely start seeing more dual battery pack setups like wattwagons or r&m - eBikes are starting to be viewed as transportation vehicles.
I wish someone covered the same topic for e-mopeds. This would put a dent in the pockets of all the goofs who sell people underpowered e-mopeds. 12 Ah 48 volt battery, seriously? You need AT LEAST 15 Ah, most optimal is 20 Ah and 60-90 volts, in that case you will actually be able to handle some pretty serious hills and can take on a second rider. And would be able to cover 60-70 km as a single rider.
That gives me a good starting point. Thanks Micah!
Good video I’m 250 lbs, riding on flat ground, over the first 300 miles I have averaged 3o miles per charge. I have not tried throttle only on my Lectric xp, but based on your video I should expect to get 15 miles on throttle only. I’m also doing mostly pas 2 with some minor pas 3. Does that sound right to you?
Congrats on the channel growth!
Fantastic video learned a great deal from it