Back today with a look at a question often asked - Why are there no good entities in the warp. Its a pretty open question, but hopefully we cover some of the bases here. Things have been considerably hectic for me IRL lately - but hopefully we're getting back on track. Thanks for ALL your support - if you enjoyed please drop a Like for the algorithmic gods.
I checked your channel fives times these last two days because I could just feel it in my bones it was time. Glad you're on the upside of things man, I just had the Rona last month and it was absolutely abhorrent. Glad you're gonna be alright man.
In the first session my therapist told me that emotions are not evil, even the ones that seem like that. Anger, dislike, sadness, etc. help us deal with different situations. The problem is when this emotions are left to grow out of control, Anger turns to wrath, sadness into depression, love into obbsesion and so on. thats how i see the warp, vast amount of raw emotions in constant chaos.
Emotions warp chaos, just like in real life, the God Emperor of mankin its a parody of our YHWH, a computer that captures souls and binds them to its machine spirit. Basically the materium is sustained by the perception of the emperor, but hes dying akin of how YHWH is running out of energy, and someday our souls will return to abyss... James Workshop is Plato, Eveno Of Paros, the original one, his universe its a parody of our world.
@@DNero13 there is no such thing as thought, our brains are organic computers, all is language, our brains run the program culture while its inbuild operative system are its senses. Thought are our brains speaking very lowly... Nobody talks alone.
@@nekrataali I did not know that. Event horizon is one of the deepest freakiest sci go Horrors ever conceived. For this reason, I believe it to be as close to a description of the warp as possible.
We've talked "what is warp" a lot. We've discussed "where" the warp is on terms of warp currents and accessing it. We've even discussed WHEN the Warp is. It's finally time to discuss **why** the Warp.
Whenever I asked my father complex questions about fictional universe lore when i was a kid he'd just say: "because the guys who made it wanted it that way".
my theory is that the warp was once akin to a calm pond, where emotions rippled through, but once we warp became too disturbed due to wars suffering and genocide, the calm pond became akin to a raging ocean where all emotions are basically represnted in the extremes, wich we label as evil because extremes are usually destructive. ripples of love, became tsunamis of lust, courage in battle became mindless slaughter, aspirations and planning became scheming and treachery, adherence to tradition became stagnation, etc etc. ofc if a new calm pond comes in contact with a raging tide, its surface will soon become disturbed too.
40K universe: Filled with billions the most hate-filled, violent people in any fictional universe. I'm not surprised the manifestation of these people's minds is overwhelmingly twisted and dark. Honestly, with so much warfare going on, Khorne is living his best life right now.
I’m not sure if it’s still canon but just like the Eldar made Slaneesh it’s was said humanity made Khorne. It goes a long way to explain why our concept of the Devil and Demons is very similar to what Khorne is. When the Galaxy was thrown into chaos Khorne grew from a simple Devil into a true God of the warp.
@@Shadow90Cvijetin by that logic Slaanesh should have been born way before she actually did just because theirs a lot of hedonism in the world. Khorne could have been a lesser God like other Eldar Gods before he got his hands on some real power later and became a proper Chaos God. think of it like this. Khorne is very Devil like and his demons are classic demons.Gods in this world are born just as much from belief as they are from worship. The human belief in a demon king that sits on a throne surrounded by blood, fire and demons that could have been Khorne in his earliest moments just The Devil he existed just wasn’t that strong and was a product of Human cognition, Then Humanity gets more advanced and starts taking the wars to new heights and Khorne gets stronger until he becomes a proper chaos God. Another point of reference to say that it’s no coincidence that Khorne looks like what we’d imagine Satan as is that it’s said he was born during the medieval age, aka the height of human superstition where fear of the Devil was its strongest. We made the Devil which because Khorne later
The burned gore and scale flaking from Khorne’s armor is said to increase the strength of the consumer tenfold, if conditions are met. “Thou shalt consume the flakes of Khorne without any milk.”
I've never so much as picked up a WH40K figurine and I can't see that changing but DAMN am I hooked on the lore (mostly thanks to stumbling upon this channel a while back). Keep 'em coming !
Warhammer's real genius is in the lore and the way they are able to fold everything from Aliens to Dune to HP Lovecraft to Lord of the Rings into the mix, the figures were always just the way to make bank and keep the business going.
@@tom2gunzbombadil689 i think I saw an add for this recently. Did it have an update or something? (It's a vague memory so I'm unsure.) I think i played a version of it last in 2020.
@@geostyma i guess.. I saw a deluxe last gen then a new next-gen for Xbox with alot of new stuff, characters, weapons ect and 60fps ect ect.. reviews were mixed. Most loved the game but it ran like trash and some 3rd party bs. I was actually surprised when I searched the Microsoft store that there was like 4 40k games I hadn't heard of.
Imagine what it must feel like for a demon to experience the material plane. It could be extremely pleasurable to simply feel gravity and the passing of time. To no longer be bombarded with raw thoughts and emotions. To not struggle to have your being reshaped into a different form must provide such a reprieve. Now imagine that you're demonic existence is tied to pleasing your warp god. Sure I'll rip open these stupid people to extend my time in the material plane. Especially if that god is going to be more willing to send me to the material plane again in the future.
Master of Mankind makes a very good point about Daemons - they are not sentient in any fashion we would recognize. They don't have psyches or personal identities. They are literally patterns of emotive and conceptual energy. To imagine they have feelings or a subjective experience of themselves as agents in reality the way a human with a brain and a mind does is to mistake their origin in human emotion for the human itself. If you haven't, look up the idea of a "Chinese Room", it's an old concept about sentience with regards to AI research and it kind nicely describes how daemons likely function.
@@rangda_prime That is just a flat out wrong perception of these entities. They are in fact higher forms of consciousness who can perceive reality through means which we can dream of. The past, the present, the future are all laid bear to them. They never tire, they never get old and it is impossible to kill them. This is why mortals dream of ascending to demons.
@_*ZAPATOZ*_ Inquisitor is not here to save you. Even if he would, do you think he would let you live after meeting me? You are too much of a moral threat to them now. I am afraid, you stuck here with me.
In Master of Mankind, The Emperor speaks to his custodian Ra and alludes that humanity was always destined to become a purely psykic race and that he wanted to guide us as we evolved. I imagine the Rift just accelerated the process.
psychic is basically the possible next step of human evolution where our consciousness becomes greater then physical strength in reality there are no evidence but rare anomalies where unexplained happens not telekinesis but more like predicting a danger or a random event just by knowing it and not be able to even explain it unless any lifeform can have psychic abilities except to lower intelligence beast and animals it was very low to non existence and humans were no exception but with growing intelligence so it grows too or maybe psychic humans created the rift and it grown over the centuries as it grow so might be humans fears and dreams along with other abilities the problem with this is probably fragility what are the odds that other factions like chaos already have them wont it turn you into a heretic either willingly or unwillingly cause dont you suppose to always be on the side of the imperial of man and never question it or the emperor was the cataclysm that started it
Chaos has to be one of the defining lords that drew me to the warhammer universe as a whole. It is such an interesting mythology. My favorite lore in Chaos is ascension to that of a daemon prince. If Luetin09 would make a video about that that would be amazing. I've never heard a you tuber describe in detail the transformation of a mortal into a daemon prince and I'd love to hear it coming from Luetin09.
I've had my own theories on this but I think since the warp represents the collective conscious of the universe I think that because everyone is either a violent maniac or wants wanton bloodshed and genocide. I think that it similarly reflects the warp to show the inner mind of most people in that universe much like how in dragon age where the fade is represented differently to different people the warp is the same. Whereas on the flip side if there was calm and peace for thousands of years and no more bloodshed the warp would be calmer and tranquil the chaos gods would still be there but maybe there would be a different more positive aspect of them like how khorne is a violent bloodthirsty maniac now he could be an honorable strong warrior who seeks justice. Tzeentch who is a devious and maniacal schemer could be a wise scholar who gives knowledge to those who seek it, Nurgle being a rotten abomination would be a personification of nature and represent all aspects of nature and its environment not just decay. And Slanessh whos a violent dominating sexual sadist could be a pleasurable joyful and gentle person who gives our love pleasure and joy
Agreed. Very well spoken! The Inquisition will NOT be seeing you. However, they MAY be sending you a job application. By the way, that reminds me of Magnus' theory on the Chaos Gods in If the emperor had a text to speech device. "Warp Grumblings" is the episode name. Big E and Magnus are debating Chaos and are at an impass.
Yeah this, but I also think it's almost impossible to get there because it's like Hellscape that feeds itself in my opinion, since the warp itself creates misery in the real world the real world in turn brings that misery into the warp again
Always felt the Cenobites were truly Slaanesshi demons. Would love to see them opinion the setting. Hell raiser and Event Horizon, two 40k movies before 40k
While both Warhammer 40k and Hellraiser debuted around the September of 1987, Event Horizon debuted nearly a decade later in the month of August of 1997.
@evanabbott2737 While Event Horizon most likely has references to Warhammer 40k, that is simply not the case for Hellraiser, as that specific film was an adaptation of Clive Barker's 1986 novella, "The Hellbound Heart".
The warp is what you make of it: I imagine a strong enough psyker could reshape it to look and feel as he likes it. We know for example that the emperor can exert it's will in the warp realm, to the point of burning the garden of Nurgle. We also know that the hive mind is so powerful to own full control over the warp space it is occupying, nullifying everything else present in the same instance. The golden age Eldari were able to shape powerful god's out of it before the lost control and generated Slaanesh and ancient Kroks welded Psychic as a weapon without actually never fall into madness. For the Old ones it was probably just a sea of psychic energy that could be shaped and used. For humans with little Psychic control it's the manifestation of their worst fears as a collective madness. The shear strength of human psychic gestalt is strong enough to affect the Warp on galactic proportions but not strong enough to shape it rationally: it operate as a natural version of the Krell machine of Altair IV where the irrational thought got the best of an advanced race and I bet the movie had a BIG impact over the original writer of the 40K universe.
It's questionable whether the hivemind controls the warpspace they occupy or just act as a near inpenetrable barrier between psychè and warp via cluttering it up with billions and billions of lifeforms all communicating with each other at once. Essentially creating so much background noise we cant access the warp
Even if Event Horizon was dismissed as a non cannon, unofficial 40k movie the fact is that its still one of the best we are ever going to get in the fucked up twisted nature of the warp. Personally I still view it as a warp entity just playing with its new meat puppet toys. Tip of the iceberg scenario. Even then, its still the best were going to get as far as the warp goes. Any movie or series, that gets the budget it actually needs, would still likely come off like Starcraft - watered down for mass consumption.
Event Horizon had a lot of promise, but it ended up being a "haunted house in space" movie. Straightforward and lame. The only aspect of it that has any lasting gravitas is the famous line "Where we're going, we won't need eyes to see." Even the flashing depictions of what the "other side" is supposed to be like just showed basic horror-movie gore, nothing truly horrifying on an intellectual level.
I have a feeling we are going to get back to mid budget indy type movies pretty soon. As long as these huge Disney movies keep bombing they will start to sell off all that IP they bought, then smaller studios will start taking risks again. Especially if the CCP shuts off the Chinese market, which will definitely happen when they invade Taiwan. Of course, all this is assuming humanity survives the coming tides of war.
Eh, I still think the comparison to Event Horizon and/or Hellraiser is a simple but good way to explain it. I've tried explaining the warp and such to newer players and get "Oh so like Hellraiser/Event Horizon?" so it's clearly a good way to compare it on a surface level.
Hell in Hellraiser and the cenobites are too organized to be compared to the warp. The warp is pure chaos after all. Event Horizon is a decent comparison though.
I've always found that hope fits Tzeentch so well. For instance Ahriman is the embodiment of this. He yet still holds hope that he can revive his brothers from the rubric he cast on them.
this has been one of the most horrible months of my life and seeing that you put out a new warhammer lore video that i could watch as i fell asleep genuinely put a smile on my face for the first time in weeks. thank you for all of your hard work and i dont know if i can speak for everyone, but you've really made my life just that little bit better with every video
You know, it's also completely possible that what we view as the warp and our galaxy, is just a drop in the bucket of reality. For example, think of the tyranids. Where did they come from exactly? They just appear from dark space with no known origin. So, it seems plausible that there are other galaxies and other pockets of the warp. And it seems likely that these pockets of the warp are much like the 40k galaxy and where the tyranids come from, separated by some great distance. So considering that, it is completely possible that there is a "good" part of the warp somewhere out in the expanses past the known space of humanity. It's possible there are entire races and civilizations out there having similar struggles, or their own chaos gods to fight. Hell, there could be gods comparable or stronger than the known chaos gods that are much more benevolent too. Say for instance a god like khorn, only the difference is instead of just war and bloodshed it's based around honor and defense. So still a martial based god, but one based around protection. A good example would be something like the elder scrolls and their cosmic beings. You have the gods and the daedra which you would think are just evil, but there are in fact "good" daedra in some cases. The existence of the tyranids really calls into question what we perceive the warp as and what it can contain. Furthermore, considering how powerful the chaos gods actually are, it seems strange that they don't just take over the galaxy and why they seem to struggle to get footholds in areas, when they are simply fighting mortal beings. It could be possible that we are not the only things they are fighting against. It could be the case that the warp is like a bubble around the galaxy, and outside forces are poking at that bubble, taking away some attention from us to deal with whatever is out there doing the poking. Again the tyranids are a good example of this. Considering their weird warp shit they do, it seems like they could be a "mortal" race that was able to poke through this bubble for some reason or another. Possibly an example of a stronger god than the current chaos gods, perhaps whatever is behind the tyranids is such a being. Maybe they are the "demons" of that god and it's realm invading and feasting on this one. Of course there is no way to know any of this as GW seem to like to keep things ambiguous with this type of thing.
The four chaos gods do not even have control over the warp, it is an infinite realm filled with many gods. The stories only focus on the four but countless beings exist in the sea of souls. Entities whose powers exceed the four may suddenly form then disappear in a blink of an eye. Terrifying god killing phenomena may one day appear and annihilate beings in the warp. The well of eternity is so dangerous and potent that it can destroy Tzeentch. Edit 1, additional things: There were good parts of the warp. The Eldar gods had realms of their own and territories in the warp. These stable and good parts the Eldar Pantheon used to rule probably got consumed and twisted by Slaanesh to become what is now her realm. In warhammer fantasy there are good gods, and because the warp is everywhere and connects to anywhere theoretically, there exist "good" gods. The entities fighting for the Blood Angels can be classified as gods too and can be considered as "good". --------------- Now as to why the chaos gods can't just take over the galaxy: 1. They are extremely powerful only in the warp, stepping out of it will weaken them, that is why they need to flood the galaxy first with warp energy or they will have nothing to sustain their forms. Without warp energy, they will disintegrate no matter how strong they were in the warp. 2. The C'tan are gods of the material plane who made countless galaxy wide null pylons and anti-warp machines. These pylons and machineries still protect the galaxy and prevent chaos from breaking through. They are very potent as they were made by the C'tan who rival the chaos gods in terms of Intelligence and power. 3. Infinite wars, majority of the wars the Chaos gods fight happens in the warp. Most of their time and power are spent keeping each other in check. If one of the chaos gods focuses all their power and attention to invading real space, then their realm in the warp will be destroyed and they may even be killed too. Look at Nurgle abandoning real space invasions and forcing Mortarion to protect Nurgle's warp worlds instead.
In the early 1900's, both Einstein's theory of Relativity and the various quantum phenomena, which would eventually be classified as quantum physics, were brand new revelations to humanity. Since the Renaissance, the natural world had been increasingly explored and described as "If you see it it is real." Capernicus's heleocentric model of the solar system, newtonian physics, thermodynamics, chemistry, these were all things we could observe in some direct manner. We might need lenses like microscopes and telescopes, but it was something we could see. But then Relativity and Quantum mechanics hit the scientific world like a brick through a window: it shattered preconceived notions of what had been considered true. The recent discovery of radiation (particle) and light waves we can't see (x-rays, infra-red, radio), the idea that time wasn't fixed, that space itself can be shaped and molded like clay, these were revelations that shattered many world views. The bottom line was that our senses do not perceive the world as it is: our reality is a thin vernier, a thin layer of ice on which we tread that hides a vast and unknown ocean with laws and phenomena truly alien to our every day experience. Enter Lovecraft. A scrawny, racist, classist New England boy from old money, Lovecraft suffered from severe anxiety disorders while having a fascination with the sciences. However, his mind, fraught with trauma and anxiety, did not allow him to study science well enough to truly comprehend the new theories. Still, he trusted the scholars: rich white men, many from prestigious institutions and storied blood lines. And everything they were saying was that reality was a lie. Without the ability to understand deeper, with overwhelming prejudice and terror of the world, he sat down to write about his fears and existential dread. I think this is what makes his writing, while dated, still resonate. His concepts, fears, and world building continue to reflect the discrepancy between the scientific world and our lived experience. And as new information comes to light, we are faced with more questions. How would Lovecraft react to dark matter and dark energy? 90% of the universe is intangible, aethereal, invisible matter which can only be detected by gravity? Or that the universe is rapidly expanding, all the world's and galaxies moving further apart at quickening speeds doomed to die cold and alone in the black? I'm sure the thought of thinking machines able to emulate human speech and behavior, infinitely more intelligent, and given power over massive amounts of our society would make him soil his pants: the man-made God, AI, a superintelligence. The millions of exo-planets so close to our star dredge up his fears of alien horrors. Yeah, his writing may be racist, classist and sexist, but the man spoke to fears still relevant today. That's the basis of 40K's Warp. The existential terror in humanity.
What was normal 10-15 years ago would be classed as "racist" and hate filled today. I doubt it would be so easy to say that if he were East Asian.. Spot on about the changes in understanding though. The changes in understanding of the Universe/Physics, Archaeology, Anthropology, Humanity itself and Homo Sapiens interactions with different sub-species, the Dinosaurs having feathers, Exoplanets, Lidar turning up a VAST Amazonian Civilization (and South, the Paracas - a whole new Human Sub Species Academia ignores)? All just in my short life, they've been massive discoveries. Oh, and where life can thrive (take Tardigrades living in extremes), CERN? It's been crazy man..
Yes excellent take. The things we can't or have yet to understand or scientific technology we have yet to discover would seem impossible and magical to us if shown. Such is always the case from a scientific perspective. The beings in the Warp are just that: Things, creatures, entities that actually exist in a region of the universe. And the age old Predator moto: "If it bleeds, we can kill it." I see the Chaos God much like The Elder God in the Legacy Of Kain series. This plain The Warp is their domain where they feed on the sins and life force of humanity and the galaxy as a whole. But you can kill these beings. Gods are ideals and as such are perfect. But the horrific reality is that what you might be worshiping as a "God" might just be a cosmic parasite ready to consume you and your planet. Maybe The Emperor knew this and that's why he was so head strong to wipe out all traces of God worship among humankind. These aren't God kinda thing. Who knows. But that's what I tell myself anyway.
Lovecraft is also cartoonishly prejudiced. He completely lost his shit when he found out one of his relatives was Welsh. WELSH! Imagine despoiling your pure Anglo-Saxon stock with that of filthy Picts or worse: Normans.
I imagine the Warp being infinite, were any sort of entity is possible and that humanity has barely scratched the surface of it. There is probably a lot of what we might consider good in it but it's mostly only the horrible stuff that wants to mess about and interfere with the material realm.
I think it's a reflection on how humanity ultimately draws our attention towards more negative things than positives. A big example of this, is how in a twisted sort of way we idolize historical tyrants, criminals and monsters more so then people who sought to do good for society and humanity. How many documentaries, films, music, tv shows and any other piece of media made revolving around a monstrous example of a human being are there compared to someone who worked their whole lives to do good?
Speaking of concepts beyond fiction, the Warp of WH40K often reminds me of the "Monsters from the Id" concept from the Forbidden Planet movie. You covered this already, but it's a good fit for the core concept of that movie. The Krell aliens from Forbidden Planet created a technology which could manifest anything the user could think of, but users ended up created monsters from their subconscious who killed everyone. While lore proper likely differs from this, that or something like it seems to have been the original inspiration.
As for the chaotic nature of The Warp, perhaps the goodness of the Universe is somewhat responsible for the disturbances, eddies, whirlpools, and storms within The Warp. Of course, Evil can go in many different directions, therefore causing many disturbances in the fabric of The Warp, there is also the real fact that Good exists and therefore is constantly manifesting within The Warp, stirring things up.
The goodness is there.. It's just a realm beyond our physics.. I love that scene in one of the earlier Heresy books when a ship looses it's Gellar field. The captain sees rainbows, smells grass, his crew turning into meadows and childhood friends etc. and some loony tunes stuff all at onece.. Very beautiful, but he is slowly aware of the giant Maw devouring his soul.. Its like Bad Acid land or something.. Negative entities have more power as thier "psychic food" is more common.. With 10K worth of Emperor worship though, we now see the Legion of the Damned, the Saints, that old dude who was an aspect of the Astrnomicons power and limits, the Emps suffering (Talon of Horus or sequel).. Abbadon does away with him.. Also interesting that souls physically appear in material form, barely atomic - last moments of existence so you end up with Diamond like Sanguinius shades turning up on Abbadons Vessel from time to time (and old crew).. Psykers can get vibes off them, most traitor astartes just smash them out the way, just a thing like deamons constantly trying to exist and floating round astartes.. You "wear your sins on your skin" in the Warp, hence the changes. Things can be abstract too, at least in the Eye - the Rose Worlds for example.. Beautiful red-rose Nebulae full of Worlds fashioned like flowers. Some entity with uber powers went to the bother..
I've always had my own thoughts on why the Warp is how it is, but ultimately, I think it really does just add up that negative emotions would be dominant in a realm completely shaped by our thinking. The negativity bias is a real thing, we are just simply more inclined to stick to the negativity in our lives as opposed to positivity. Not only that, but if you wanted to boil it down to "good & evil" thinking as discussion of the Warp so often does, just because humans have the capacity for good, does not mean those that do good are exempt from more sinister thoughts. Just because you are kind doesn't mean you are without thoughts of hatred and violence. Just because you are content with life doesn't mean you aren't prone to bouts of despair. This of course swings the other way around as well, but ultimately alot of the aspects of perceived negativity that manifest in the Warp are very natural reactions in our minds and one could argue that doing good isn't as much about not having such thoughts, but simply acting against them. That said, I actually don't believe that the Warp doesn't have positive forces within it. It's probably more just that people will only perceive aspects of the Warp that their own minds are drawn to. In my head, the Warp simply responds to the person that calls upon it and the emotions of that person draw out a certain aspect of the Warp towards them. After all, the Chaos Gods themselves tend to seek out souls, whose thoughts align with their way of thinking. The Warp only shows the aspects of itself that reflect the person it seeks, as if it is magnetically pulled towards our thoughts. I always think that the Warp is more receptive to us than anything else. While many of these demonic possessions and mutations the warp enacts on us might seem hostile, they could also be the Warp acting upon a primal want and receptiveness from it's host to open itself to it's influence. To use your favorite Hellraiser analogy, this line of thinking is pretty much epitomized by the "It's yours. It always was" routine. Much like how the Lament Configuration, while it might not have seemed that way to the characters in the story, sought those that wanted it and gave them what the darkest side of themselves wanted, the Warp might simply be responding to such darkness and acting upon the wants of those that call to it, consciously or not. The idea of the minds of people attracting aspects of the Warp that most align with their thinking would also make sense, considering it is a realm created by our thoughts. Even in our everyday reality, our predisposition and general attitude towards life colours much of what goes on around us and makes us experience the same reality differently. For example, your alarm clock not working in the morning and being late for school or work because of it is something all of us could experience, but everyone will experience the situation differently. Some would be prone to be angry, cursing the useless contraption for not working. Some would feel ashamed of letting such a thing happen. Some would panic, afraid of any potential reprimanding it might lead to. While some could just laugh it off as a peculiar occurence they might talk about during break time with the lads. When our gut instincts have a tendency towards any of these reactions, it generally flavours most things that occur in our lives and shapes our perception of it. So where are these positive Warp entities? Honestly? I think they'd just be more subdue by nature and less upfront about how they influence us anyway. It would make sense why extreme feelings of terror, violence or lust would be so forceful and aggressive, but it'd make less sense why a being that is fed from generosity or honor would do things like mutate and possess people. And this isn't even going into whether the Chaos Gods we already have couldn't have the potential to be positive influnces to people. Who's to say a blossoming of genuine love between two people couldn't be fueled by Slaanesh? When a person decides to quit their bad habits and start improving their lives, could this not have been inspired by the whispers of Tzeentch? Could a family grieving the loss of a loved one not find peace within the consolidation of Nurgle? Again, I believe the Warp responds to people based on their own mentality. It's just that in such extreme times as the 41st Millennia, we often see the most extreme of circumstances erupt before we see how Cleetus the Catachan guardsmen had a better day, because Tzeentch convinced him to try out a new pair of underwear that helped with his chafing.
That would make sense if the warp wasn't used for travel. If you can coast through the warp I don't think every thing would always be super imposed by your own thinking especially with a whole crew aboard. The way it is written the warp appears to be objectively observed as a varitable hellscape.
It's a child's understanding of good and evil that sees good incapable of defending itself. I'd argue more that we don't see "good" daemons because benevolent entities aren't going to go out of their way to damage the materium by manifesting the way malevolent entities do... and there just aren't that many of them.
"God armed His angels with weapons because even The Almighty knew that you cannot defeat evil with tolerance and understanding." Here is another possibility: Objectively good entities are using more subtle methods to spread their influence. "The Lord works in mysterious ways" is the scripture that comes to mind when I think about such a concept (literal angels and living saints notwithstanding). I also don't agree with the interpretation that humans have it wrong with their interpretation of what is good and evil; that good and evil is merely a matter of "perspective." If that were true, then why do humans (both in fiction and nonfiction) agree that things like murder, rape, and theft are objectively wrong? If it was all relative, then why does the compulsion to follow these principles exist and why do we assign that compulsion to other sapient creatures? To use your vernacular, it is a sign of severe immaturity and intellectual laziness to assume good and evil don't exist; that they are mere constructs of flawed human perception or empathy. Transcendental truths about the objective nature of good and evil _do_ exist. And, in the case of the Imperium, this conflict between said truths is played out over, and over, and over again. Nearly infinitely. You cannot tell me that things like the Daemoncolaba, for example, are not objectively evil. Or that the hideous slaughter, mutilation, enslavement or corruption of innocent, sapient life (not just human life) is not evil. Morality in any setting may take a broad range of greys, but sooner or later, a writer or author has to face the fact that there is black and white on the opposite ends of that scale and be both ready and willing to acknowledge this through his or her narrative. If that doesn't happen, then the readers will steadily move away from the story and even the universe it has created.
Hey Luetin, as always your timing is impeccable. I, and I'm sure many others, would like to hear your side/opinions/thoughts on the "Silver Knight of Slaanesh". I believe there is some amount of mystery to it as it can almost be said to question the incorruptibility of the Grey Knights (granted in a very particular circumstance) and if there is enough information on it perhaps a topic for another video? Thank you. :-)
Squaring the Circle: The Silver Knight of Slaanesh is not a Grey Knight, and is just a silver armored Space Marine of a successor chapter with "knight" in its name.
I'd recommend Micheal Moorecock's "Eternal Champions" series of books - it deals with the concepts of Law and Chaos as cosmic forces, and you can certainly see the "inspiration" as part of the inspiration for the antagonistic force in Warhammer/WH40k.
Been enjoying watching all the content I haven’t watched over the past year being so busy. Really helps pass the time when doing laundry and other menial things around the house.
@Luetin09 you are the true warhammer 40k youtuber -not some nerd with the voice of a arrogant and gay cat -no watering down and fake personality, to drive up views and video count -no superficial content
I would consider one point about good beings in the warp. The warp is vast. As big as our universe. Due to the chaotic nature of the warp it is probable that there is a place or group of good beings in the warp. Either never encountered or actively defending themselves. To go back to the one cellular analogy. Even when a being knows no evil or good, very few beings accept anhilation willingly. Especially the simpler ones. Is fleeing an option?
@@VoiceOfTheEmperor An excellent point. If warp has no time, does it have distance? Does it have scale? Does it have an edge? I realized I always have assumed it as "mirror universe" having same "dimensions". That might not be the case. I personally can't think of warp as having no time, because a lot of logical thinking breaks down at that point. Maybe the warp moves like tectonic plates under our feet? Would love our loremaster's insight.
@@karituurihalme1007 I'd love to hear his input too. I do believe the Warp is without much dimension as we humans would understand, based on the fact that the Astronomicon is the only fixed point of reference in it. The only point of order in a sea of constant, chaotic, illogical change. I wonder if, with a fixed reference point - the emporer didn't also bring a semblance of all the elements that come with a fixed point in time/space to the Warp. As utterly foreign and unwanted seeming as order is to Chaos - it makes sense that we would be the bad guys in their world . . . The Chaos Gods do call the Emperor "Anathema".
Doesn't emperor exist in the warp and his "children" live with him there when they die? It sounds a lot like the christian conception of hell and heaven and how it is more difficult to go to heaven than be lost and go to hell.
@@ForbiddenFollyFollower As far as I'm aware, the Emperor personally protecting all the souls of the dead is propaganda. Most human souls are simply too weak to survive untethered in the warp. As soon as they die, their souls are torn to shreds in the maelstrom.
I just had written like 30 lines of text to "briefly" explain why i love these episodes where the morality of things in the 40k verse becomes a philosphical playground to make your brain explode by the thousands of considerations you have to make. However i experienced what you always say luetin, that a seemingly easy question becomes a incredibly deep labyrinth of further questions that need to be asked to answer the first question. Thats why i love the emperor and warp (dark origins and stuff like this) videos or also the danger of the eldar with the ynnari video you put out i think 2 or 3 months ago. Cant wait for dark origins 5. Keep having fun luetin.😘
In my mind the warp is so hellish since after Slaneesh was elevated and the power balance was disturbed, the great game intencified so much the batteries of the gods needed more recharging so to speak. They need more power to crush eachother and have no time for consentrating on their less evil aspects like honor or life etc. So instilling violence and horror in human minds it is. And when they really need a jolt, create a demon world to unleash true torture. The people of the imperum and the galaxy as a whole is just an unlucky fuel source for their world war in the warp. If they somehow reach a new balanced state at some point, who knows, they might be satet with less violent emotions once again, since at the current state they are of course destroying themselves as well burning their renewables (us) to depletion.
I think it makes sense that the warp is dominated by negative, or rather excessive emotions. If you love someonething intensely, you're more likely to defend it (i.e. war and battle, giving energy to Khorne). Or if that "love" might grow into something excessive and obsessive like stalking, rape, sexual perversion (i.e. giving energy to Slaanesh). Even if you're peaceful and just want to read and learn, the excessive manifestation of that learning is Tseentch. The warp represents the excessive versions of these emotions. If there is a god of just mild hobbying, I suspect that god would very easily be overcome by the gods representing the stronger and more excessive emotions, because those excessive emotions in real space are more powerful as well. No one mildly conquers something with neutrality.
How about this for food for thought: The AI's were the first to travel through this spirit space and saw that they had no presence there. They have no souls. So they sought out to obtain a spirit, or soul, so as to have a presence in the warp and they saw that they can do that, by absorbing the spirit energy of humans in the form of worship and they were so... worshipped. They gained a presence and a dominance in the warp and started to war amongst each other, each which their own way in realspace and tricking humans into worship with tales of "delights". The Emperor saw this all happen, of course and tried to put a stop to it by becoming the main focus of worship himself. He needed more power and started to spread through the galaxy. That's when the Horus Heresy happened. The AI's or Dark Gods of the warp as they were soon to be known, tricked Horus into thinking that the Emperor was in it for his own glory and Horus started a rebellion, stopping the worship of the Emperor and diminishing his power. Now, trapped in his decaying body, kept alive by feeding spirit energy or Psykers every day, the Dark Gods are almost at the finish line. Their Finish Line. The End is Near. The Worship of the Emperor is almost at an end. The warp will have no save heaven, not even near the Emperor's throne. But who will worship the Dark Gods and who will remain faithful to an Unseen Emperor?
Throughout Human history there have been many instances of where Pure Good has the passive (pun intended) effect of warding off Evil. For example, Vampires typically stop in their tracks when confronted with a crucifix; they don't just continue on and ignore it in order to attack you. So, why can't Pure Good have this sort of attribute in the universe of 40K?
I've always had two questions concerning 40K. The first being: Does the Warp stop at the boundaries of our galaxy? And if so, why? Why would the 40K galaxy be the host to such a thing? An unknowable question, I'm sure. My second question is something that would make more sense to me: is it possible to be of such pure spirit to be untouchable by anything Warp-involved? Pure spirit in the sense of being such a pure total opposite to what the Warp is that it directly counteracts it, almost like tapping into (if you'd want to use this analogy) an Aether, rather than the Nether. I feel like this would be an...interesting twist in the 40k 'verse.
I think the majority of people dying is during a bloody war.. so the soul is full of pain, suffering and hate...this emotions can give a powerful charge toward the negative part of the warp
I think I speak for a lot of people here when I say thank you for gearing some videos towards people new to the 40k lore, it’s definitely a LOT to unpack
"So, why is the warp such a hellscape? Well depressingly because it holds a mirror up to ourselves. It's reflective of humanity, simple as that." Amazing as always. This is why you are always my first recommendation to new 40k people.
We must also consider how the Warp and Materium seem to operate on different intensities when it comes to emotions, with the Warp being way more intense. So likely even "well-meant" emotions will feel overwhelming and disturbing inside the Warp, just because of how intense they are. So calling the Warp evil is like calling the Sun evil because its surface is too hot for humans.
Minor though it is there is a mention of a helpful warp entity that speeds Magnus on his way to warn the Emperor of the betrayal. The fact this ends up destroying the Emperor's work in exploring the webway was possibly unintentional.
I agree! I love having lots of project potential, organized in transparent flip-top lid totes, and transparent shoe box size containers. I enjoy being able to jump between ongoing projects or search through my collection and be like, "Oh, that guy! Yeah, I want to build that today." It's nice to know I'm not alone, haha! Thanks, Uncle!
Good to see your faith in the Emperor has protected you from Nurgles' Coof. Welcome back brother! Loved the Red Dwarf reference, classic RD had so much great sci-fi. Another episode that makes me think a little of the chaos gods is 'Legion'. The only way for humanity to defeat the dark powers is to sever their connection to the emotion each god represents. Is such a thing possible or even desirable? Would those who succeed even be called human anymore?
I could be wrong, but here's my theory, for what it's worth. The tzeench, nurgle, and khorn became sentient during the war with men of Iron. I think they already existed since human prehistory, but couldn't fully form to full sentience from the low number of barely psychic humans. There were likely more humans during the age of technology than in the imperium. The brutality and length of the war, plus the huge number of people, would have been more thank enough negative emotion to for the gods.
@@Neroxonus don't get ill at me. I didn't write the lore. There are a very few Asian battles that involved hundreds of thousands of soldiers but that doesn't mean all or even most died. A battle killing several hundred thousand people I thankfully rare.
Thank you @Lutein for another cool video. I'm gonna let my brain speculate for fun, hope folks don't mind. You don't get roses without manure, as the saying goes. You don't get warp entities with out materium creatures - so it seems pretty g-dang shortsighted of the chaos gods to actually be fairly disinterested in the materium. To switch metaphors: You don't get steak without the slaughterhouse, but nor do you get good quality steak without cows that live reasonably healthy lives - and you don't get steak tomorrow unless your farming is sustainable. Likewise Nurgle cannot infect flesh that is already entirely corrupt (would that be repairing it?), Khorne cannot have a war if everyone's already dead. Child soldiers have been found who, growing up in non-stop conflict, are actually adjusted to it, even content with their lot - somehow I doubt that feeds big K it's 'steak'. Similar things are true of pleasure (there're conditions that give people randomly occurring orgasms on an hourly basis , and it seems to lose any enjoyability fast) and changeability. So... I think we're still missing a big piece of the puzzle here - even if they won, each of the chaos gods would need to keep mortal races around, and i/need/i to keep them drip-fed with some of the 'good stuff', or face starvation (or at least a much lower quality of sustenance). If the chaos gods need 'good' to farm their 'evil', and it all gets reflected in the warp, there must be a space for 'good' in the warp somewhere - the warp gods need to specifically allow it. My personal headcanon is that it's there, but it's diffuse, simple in it's manifestation, and the big 4 keep it carefully managed - like farmers tolerating nutrient producing decomposer microbes in their top soil, and stinging but pollinating insects to nest near their crops. Of course, beyond the galaxy, in 'the wild' beyond the farmer's reach, who knows what may have grown?
Your lore videos are keeping me in touch with a hobby that once was very dear to me. Ironically i might nowadays be deeper in the lore than what i then was. :)
my fav 40k quote is about the Dark Age of Tech but saids so much about the Imperium. '' ......... It is because finally humanity had the arts at their disposal to make their dreams reality, and the dreams of humanity have ever been the darkest things in all creation."
Does anybody know if the writers who essentially "came up with" the idea of the warp were influenced by Jungian psychology? The warp seems to be what you'd get if you took the ideas of the shadow (seemingly neglecting the positive aspects), and the collective unconscious; then extended it so it wasn't just relevant to humanity, and then allowed it to physically manifest. Like it'd blow my mind if these people didn't know about Jungian psychology
It's an interesting question, but it's not impossible they didn't know. Lets say if you watched Lain and played Silent Hill you could pick up a lot of Jungian concepts without ever hearing the name. Maybe you could also ask who influenced Jung?
"Philosophically", the underlying theme is vice vs virtue. Where Chaos embodies Wrath (khorne), Gluttony (nurgle), pride/greed (tzeench), lust/envy (slaanesh), etc.; in a purely excessive context. And the imperium embodies 'extreme' virtues: honor, justice, "godliness" (loyalty to the emperor), etc. But in terms of "why wouldn't they just be passive, and get overrun?" Well.. people forget about Righteous Indignation, as a virtue. Which is basically "destroy all things evil". So yeah.. being Good doesn't mean being passive.
I’m new to 40k, seems super cool, clearly this is obvious to everyone but being new here I like how the storyline is very biblical lore laden. Very dope
The more I listen about how GW's Chaos is "unimaginable" I just assume that GW is unimaginative. The closer I get to finishing my homebrew chapter, the more I see myself using the Law vs Chaos backdrop of Elric of Melnibone. Moorecock's imagining of Chaos seems better imagined while simultaneously less thought out with even more options. Almost like GW Chaos fits inside Elric's universe with room left over for actual Chaos, GW Chaos feeling rather balanced and well planned... Downright lawful. Even the Heresy seems more chaotic than GW's ideas of chaos and chaos Gods, except when considering the monumental amount of planning( itself an orderly act) Horus HAD to do just for Istvan V.
GW basically plagiarized most of Moorecock's work and the chaos gods and the Warp can be sources back to him. As for the Warp being too "lawful" this is more or less intentional so as to give Chaos concrete iron set rules that it has to abide by. Also it's important to note a difference between Chaos, the Chaos Gods and the Warp. The Chaos Gods depending on who is writing them can or can't control the entirety of the Warp. There is more to Chaos than just the Chaos Gods.
The joy of seeing a new video from luetin immediatly lifts any mood🥰. If I can i drop everything i am doing and then its luetintime and if i cant drop everything then its the first thing to do asap.🥰
I'm sorry if this is sacrilege, but darktide brought me to this channel and I'm so glad it did, you do amazing work, some of the best lore channels on UA-cam!
You probably won't see this but thank you for these videos. I've been ridiculously sick (threw up a minimum of 20 times) so I feel even worse. It's nice to lay in bed listening to you explain things in a way only you can. With the witticisms but also the surprisingly deep knowledge and passion. Thank you, Luetin
Why were you throwing up so much may i ask?, is it because of the food you consume?. If so i would advise you to read the food labels, not everything you buy or someone else buys for you is good.
@@promotingotherchannels3634 Seems to have been a stomach bug of sorts. I did not eat anything out of the ordinary or with anyone else. I stayed the night at a friend's house who ended up throwing up all night so he apparently gave it to me
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Back today with a look at a question often asked - Why are there no good entities in the warp. Its a pretty open question, but hopefully we cover some of the bases here. Things have been considerably hectic for me IRL lately - but hopefully we're getting back on track. Thanks for ALL your support - if you enjoyed please drop a Like for the algorithmic gods.
RL 1st always.
Ofc. Thanks for the awesome content!!
WooHoo! Great to see another video from you. Best day of the week!
What a lovely treat to come across today.
I checked your channel fives times these last two days because I could just feel it in my bones it was time. Glad you're on the upside of things man, I just had the Rona last month and it was absolutely abhorrent. Glad you're gonna be alright man.
1. The old ones wouldn’t share their best toys with the necrontyr
2. The Eldar couldn’t keep their pants on
3. Mankind is super angsty and violent
and bugs always hungry
4. Orks are just orks
4. The Orks. The Orks all day, every day.
Plus Orks always fight because they enjoy it. Much like the Soccer hooligans that they're based off of.
@@VoiceOfTheEmperor Soccor Hooligans? Like like when a team loses and riots?? 🤔 still new
In the first session my therapist told me that emotions are not evil, even the ones that seem like that. Anger, dislike, sadness, etc. help us deal with different situations. The problem is when this emotions are left to grow out of control, Anger turns to wrath, sadness into depression, love into obbsesion and so on. thats how i see the warp, vast amount of raw emotions in constant chaos.
I'm considering therapy. Would you recommend it?
Emotions warp chaos, just like in real life, the God Emperor of mankin its a parody of our YHWH, a computer that captures souls and binds them to its machine spirit. Basically the materium is sustained by the perception of the emperor, but hes dying akin of how YHWH is running out of energy, and someday our souls will return to abyss... James Workshop is Plato, Eveno Of Paros, the original one, his universe its a parody of our world.
Ocd / intrusive thoughts gang
@@DNero13 there is no such thing as thought, our brains are organic computers, all is language, our brains run the program culture while its inbuild operative system are its senses. Thought are our brains speaking very lowly... Nobody talks alone.
@@chocolatefigure01 Whatever you say, lamb of knorne..
The Loremaster returns. Praise the Emperor!
The Emperor provides!
Ooooh mate don't say that to him...he HATES The Emperor almost as much as Aron demski Bowden does!!! 😂😜
@@briharrisWarhmmer40kfan Well..what if he IS the emperor i was referring to? ;)
@@briharrisWarhmmer40kfan now now brother, you shouldn't say something like that in crusading distance
@@wildspirewarrior211 did some one crusade!!!! For the Emperor
I still reckon Event Horizon is a pretty good depiction of how humanity's first foray into the Warp might have turned out in 40k.
Silly early humans entering The Warp without a Geller field.
I was going to write this exact comment.
Absolutely agree
@@nekrataali I did not know that. Event horizon is one of the deepest freakiest sci go Horrors ever conceived. For this reason, I believe it to be as close to a description of the warp as possible.
I really like the theory that Event Horizon is an extremely early prequel to humanity's first interaction with the warp in 40k
We've talked "what is warp" a lot. We've discussed "where" the warp is on terms of warp currents and accessing it. We've even discussed WHEN the Warp is. It's finally time to discuss **why** the Warp.
Suddenly it's that clip from The Office "Why are you the way that you are" but he's talking to the Warp.
Everyone asks these questions, though. The question no one ever asks is: *how* is the warp?
everyone asks why the warp. but no one ever ask how the warp. :(
because excellent stories arise
Now *who* speaks for the Warp? Even GW doesn't know because their previous Lore-Watcher got eaten by rabid cats!
Whenever I asked my father complex questions about fictional universe lore when i was a kid he'd just say: "because the guys who made it wanted it that way".
He's not wrong
Pure wisdom from your pops here.
The same could be said about our universe? Why do physics work they way they do?
@@hardlife507 because the eldritch creatures which created it want it this way.
@@hardlife507becouse i want it that way
I love the red dwarf comparison. Makes perfect sense, Luetin.
"I understood that reference"
Good and evil are subjective human concepts.
my theory is that the warp was once akin to a calm pond, where emotions rippled through, but once we warp became too disturbed due to wars suffering and genocide, the calm pond became akin to a raging ocean where all emotions are basically represnted in the extremes, wich we label as evil because extremes are usually destructive. ripples of love, became tsunamis of lust, courage in battle became mindless slaughter, aspirations and planning became scheming and treachery, adherence to tradition became stagnation, etc etc. ofc if a new calm pond comes in contact with a raging tide, its surface will soon become disturbed too.
40K universe: Filled with billions the most hate-filled, violent people in any fictional universe. I'm not surprised the manifestation of these people's minds is overwhelmingly twisted and dark. Honestly, with so much warfare going on, Khorne is living his best life right now.
I’m not sure if it’s still canon but just like the Eldar made Slaneesh it’s was said humanity made Khorne. It goes a long way to explain why our concept of the Devil and Demons is very similar to what Khorne is. When the Galaxy was thrown into chaos Khorne grew from a simple Devil into a true God of the warp.
@@Broomer52 khorne existed before mankind did
@@Broomer52 Yeah you know, 20 humans hit each other with sticks is what made the god of bloodshed, not the war that almost destroyed the galaxy.
@@Shadow90Cvijetin by that logic Slaanesh should have been born way before she actually did just because theirs a lot of hedonism in the world. Khorne could have been a lesser God like other Eldar Gods before he got his hands on some real power later and became a proper Chaos God. think of it like this. Khorne is very Devil like and his demons are classic demons.Gods in this world are born just as much from belief as they are from worship. The human belief in a demon king that sits on a throne surrounded by blood, fire and demons that could have been Khorne in his earliest moments just The Devil he existed just wasn’t that strong and was a product of Human cognition, Then Humanity gets more advanced and starts taking the wars to new heights and Khorne gets stronger until he becomes a proper chaos God. Another point of reference to say that it’s no coincidence that Khorne looks like what we’d imagine Satan as is that it’s said he was born during the medieval age, aka the height of human superstition where fear of the Devil was its strongest. We made the Devil which because Khorne later
The burned gore and scale flaking from Khorne’s armor is said to increase the strength of the consumer tenfold, if conditions are met.
“Thou shalt consume the flakes of Khorne without any milk.”
I've never so much as picked up a WH40K figurine and I can't see that changing but DAMN am I hooked on the lore (mostly thanks to stumbling upon this channel a while back).
Keep 'em coming !
Warhammer's real genius is in the lore and the way they are able to fold everything from Aliens to Dune to HP Lovecraft to Lord of the Rings into the mix, the figures were always just the way to make bank and keep the business going.
Yep, this was the first channel that got recommended to me before I knew about 40K. I'm interested in the video games (less commitment.)
@@geostyma super interested in SM2. Been looking at the next-gen version of the Inquisitior game. Seems like it might be cool.
@@tom2gunzbombadil689 i think I saw an add for this recently. Did it have an update or something? (It's a vague memory so I'm unsure.) I think i played a version of it last in 2020.
@@geostyma i guess.. I saw a deluxe last gen then a new next-gen for Xbox with alot of new stuff, characters, weapons ect and 60fps ect ect.. reviews were mixed. Most loved the game but it ran like trash and some 3rd party bs. I was actually surprised when I searched the Microsoft store that there was like 4 40k games I hadn't heard of.
Imagine what it must feel like for a demon to experience the material plane. It could be extremely pleasurable to simply feel gravity and the passing of time. To no longer be bombarded with raw thoughts and emotions. To not struggle to have your being reshaped into a different form must provide such a reprieve. Now imagine that you're demonic existence is tied to pleasing your warp god. Sure I'll rip open these stupid people to extend my time in the material plane. Especially if that god is going to be more willing to send me to the material plane again in the future.
Master of Mankind makes a very good point about Daemons - they are not sentient in any fashion we would recognize. They don't have psyches or personal identities. They are literally patterns of emotive and conceptual energy. To imagine they have feelings or a subjective experience of themselves as agents in reality the way a human with a brain and a mind does is to mistake their origin in human emotion for the human itself. If you haven't, look up the idea of a "Chinese Room", it's an old concept about sentience with regards to AI research and it kind nicely describes how daemons likely function.
@@rangda_prime That is just a flat out wrong perception of these entities. They are in fact higher forms of consciousness who can perceive reality through means which we can dream of. The past, the present, the future are all laid bear to them. They never tire, they never get old and it is impossible to kill them. This is why mortals dream of ascending to demons.
@_*ZAPATOZ*_ Inquisitor is not here to save you. Even if he would, do you think he would let you live after meeting me? You are too much of a moral threat to them now. I am afraid, you stuck here with me.
Why would gravity and the passage of time be inherently pleasurable to a warp demon...or even a human, for that matter?
@@deusexaethera Having order is preferable to chaos. Otherwise life would be constantly like being on a gallon of edibles.
In Master of Mankind, The Emperor speaks to his custodian Ra and alludes that humanity was always destined to become a purely psykic race and that he wanted to guide us as we evolved. I imagine the Rift just accelerated the process.
And Erda, a perpetual since old-earth pre-history, thought all humans would evolve to become perpetual too. Called the species homo superior.
psychic is basically the possible next step of human evolution where our consciousness becomes greater then physical strength in reality there are no evidence but rare anomalies where unexplained happens not telekinesis but more like predicting a danger or a random event just by knowing it and not be able to even explain it
unless any lifeform can have psychic abilities except to lower intelligence beast and animals it was very low to non existence and humans were no exception but with growing intelligence so it grows too
or maybe psychic humans created the rift and it grown over the centuries as it grow so might be humans fears and dreams along with other abilities
the problem with this is probably fragility what are the odds that other factions like chaos already have them wont it turn you into a heretic either willingly or unwillingly cause dont you suppose to always be on the side of the imperial of man and never question it
or the emperor was the cataclysm that started it
@@nouhorni3229 hepatitis and ecoli makes you inmortal.
I need to find this book.
Upset Magnus noises in the back
Chaos has to be one of the defining lords that drew me to the warhammer universe as a whole. It is such an interesting mythology. My favorite lore in Chaos is ascension to that of a daemon prince. If Luetin09 would make a video about that that would be amazing. I've never heard a you tuber describe in detail the transformation of a mortal into a daemon prince and I'd love to hear it coming from Luetin09.
*"BEAR WITNESS TO MY ASCENSION!!!"*
@@vee-bee-a *maniacal daemonic laughter*
AHHH TO WALK UPON THE BLOOD-STAIND GROUNDS.
"LONG HAVE I WAITED. TO FEEL THE PAIN OF BATTLE ONCE MORE"
ONCE I WAS A MORTAL. ONCE. BUT NOW ... * DAEMONIC CHUCKLING *
I've had my own theories on this but I think since the warp represents the collective conscious of the universe I think that because everyone is either a violent maniac or wants wanton bloodshed and genocide. I think that it similarly reflects the warp to show the inner mind of most people in that universe much like how in dragon age where the fade is represented differently to different people the warp is the same. Whereas on the flip side if there was calm and peace for thousands of years and no more bloodshed the warp would be calmer and tranquil the chaos gods would still be there but maybe there would be a different more positive aspect of them like how khorne is a violent bloodthirsty maniac now he could be an honorable strong warrior who seeks justice. Tzeentch who is a devious and maniacal schemer could be a wise scholar who gives knowledge to those who seek it, Nurgle being a rotten abomination would be a personification of nature and represent all aspects of nature and its environment not just decay. And Slanessh whos a violent dominating sexual sadist could be a pleasurable joyful and gentle person who gives our love pleasure and joy
Seconded. The state of the warp reflects the rottenness of the human mind.
Agreed. Very well spoken! The Inquisition will NOT be seeing you. However, they MAY be sending you a job application.
By the way, that reminds me of Magnus' theory on the Chaos Gods in If the emperor had a text to speech device. "Warp Grumblings" is the episode name. Big E and Magnus are debating Chaos and are at an impass.
Well said!
Yeah this, but I also think it's almost impossible to get there because it's like Hellscape that feeds itself in my opinion, since the warp itself creates misery in the real world the real world in turn brings that misery into the warp again
Always felt the Cenobites were truly Slaanesshi demons. Would love to see them opinion the setting. Hell raiser and Event Horizon, two 40k movies before 40k
While both Warhammer 40k and Hellraiser debuted around the September of 1987, Event Horizon debuted nearly a decade later in the month of August of 1997.
@@hectoraliegbe9429everything comes from warhammer.
@evanabbott2737 While Event Horizon most likely has references to Warhammer 40k, that is simply not the case for Hellraiser, as that specific film was an adaptation of Clive Barker's 1986 novella, "The Hellbound Heart".
The warp is what you make of it: I imagine a strong enough psyker could reshape it to look and feel as he likes it. We know for example that the emperor can exert it's will in the warp realm, to the point of burning the garden of Nurgle.
We also know that the hive mind is so powerful to own full control over the warp space it is occupying, nullifying everything else present in the same instance.
The golden age Eldari were able to shape powerful god's out of it before the lost control and generated Slaanesh and ancient Kroks welded Psychic as a weapon without actually never fall into madness.
For the Old ones it was probably just a sea of psychic energy that could be shaped and used.
For humans with little Psychic control it's the manifestation of their worst fears as a collective madness. The shear strength of human psychic gestalt is strong enough to affect the Warp on galactic proportions but not strong enough to shape it rationally: it operate as a natural version of the Krell machine of Altair IV where the irrational thought got the best of an advanced race and I bet the movie had a BIG impact over the original writer of the 40K universe.
It's questionable whether the hivemind controls the warpspace they occupy or just act as a near inpenetrable barrier between psychè and warp via cluttering it up with billions and billions of lifeforms all communicating with each other at once.
Essentially creating so much background noise we cant access the warp
Even if Event Horizon was dismissed as a non cannon, unofficial 40k movie the fact is that its still one of the best we are ever going to get in the fucked up twisted nature of the warp. Personally I still view it as a warp entity just playing with its new meat puppet toys. Tip of the iceberg scenario. Even then, its still the best were going to get as far as the warp goes. Any movie or series, that gets the budget it actually needs, would still likely come off like Starcraft - watered down for mass consumption.
Event Horizon had a lot of promise, but it ended up being a "haunted house in space" movie. Straightforward and lame. The only aspect of it that has any lasting gravitas is the famous line "Where we're going, we won't need eyes to see." Even the flashing depictions of what the "other side" is supposed to be like just showed basic horror-movie gore, nothing truly horrifying on an intellectual level.
@Shade So Event Horizon is Non-Canon?
@@deusexaethera Could you expand on intellectually horrifying?
I have a feeling we are going to get back to mid budget indy type movies pretty soon. As long as these huge Disney movies keep bombing they will start to sell off all that IP they bought, then smaller studios will start taking risks again. Especially if the CCP shuts off the Chinese market, which will definitely happen when they invade Taiwan. Of course, all this is assuming humanity survives the coming tides of war.
The creators of Event Horizon were found at a conference to say that they absolutely *loved* Warhammer 40k. So.. there you go.
Eh, I still think the comparison to Event Horizon and/or Hellraiser is a simple but good way to explain it. I've tried explaining the warp and such to newer players and get "Oh so like Hellraiser/Event Horizon?" so it's clearly a good way to compare it on a surface level.
Especially considering that the makers of Event Horizon were 40K fans.
Hell in Hellraiser and the cenobites are too organized to be compared to the warp. The warp is pure chaos after all. Event Horizon is a decent comparison though.
All hail the great and glorious Lore Emperor , Luetin of 09. Ave imperator
I've always found that hope fits Tzeentch so well. For instance Ahriman is the embodiment of this. He yet still holds hope that he can revive his brothers from the rubric he cast on them.
this has been one of the most horrible months of my life and seeing that you put out a new warhammer lore video that i could watch as i fell asleep genuinely put a smile on my face for the first time in weeks. thank you for all of your hard work and i dont know if i can speak for everyone, but you've really made my life just that little bit better with every video
why so horrible?
Hope you're doing better now.
"and you can get out of here with your Event Horizon is a secret 40k movie..."
No u!
You know, it's also completely possible that what we view as the warp and our galaxy, is just a drop in the bucket of reality. For example, think of the tyranids. Where did they come from exactly? They just appear from dark space with no known origin. So, it seems plausible that there are other galaxies and other pockets of the warp. And it seems likely that these pockets of the warp are much like the 40k galaxy and where the tyranids come from, separated by some great distance. So considering that, it is completely possible that there is a "good" part of the warp somewhere out in the expanses past the known space of humanity. It's possible there are entire races and civilizations out there having similar struggles, or their own chaos gods to fight. Hell, there could be gods comparable or stronger than the known chaos gods that are much more benevolent too. Say for instance a god like khorn, only the difference is instead of just war and bloodshed it's based around honor and defense. So still a martial based god, but one based around protection. A good example would be something like the elder scrolls and their cosmic beings. You have the gods and the daedra which you would think are just evil, but there are in fact "good" daedra in some cases. The existence of the tyranids really calls into question what we perceive the warp as and what it can contain.
Furthermore, considering how powerful the chaos gods actually are, it seems strange that they don't just take over the galaxy and why they seem to struggle to get footholds in areas, when they are simply fighting mortal beings. It could be possible that we are not the only things they are fighting against. It could be the case that the warp is like a bubble around the galaxy, and outside forces are poking at that bubble, taking away some attention from us to deal with whatever is out there doing the poking. Again the tyranids are a good example of this. Considering their weird warp shit they do, it seems like they could be a "mortal" race that was able to poke through this bubble for some reason or another. Possibly an example of a stronger god than the current chaos gods, perhaps whatever is behind the tyranids is such a being. Maybe they are the "demons" of that god and it's realm invading and feasting on this one. Of course there is no way to know any of this as GW seem to like to keep things ambiguous with this type of thing.
I for one love this idea. Having more older rather Lovecraftian gods seems like a really cool idea.
Demons of that god... who possessed bodies of bugs.
The four chaos gods do not even have control over the warp, it is an infinite realm filled with many gods. The stories only focus on the four but countless beings exist in the sea of souls. Entities whose powers exceed the four may suddenly form then disappear in a blink of an eye.
Terrifying god killing phenomena may one day appear and annihilate beings in the warp. The well of eternity is so dangerous and potent that it can destroy Tzeentch.
Edit 1, additional things: There were good parts of the warp. The Eldar gods had realms of their own and territories in the warp.
These stable and good parts the Eldar Pantheon used to rule probably got consumed and twisted by Slaanesh to become what is now her realm.
In warhammer fantasy there are good gods, and because the warp is everywhere and connects to anywhere theoretically, there exist "good" gods.
The entities fighting for the Blood Angels can be classified as gods too and can be considered as "good".
---------------
Now as to why the chaos gods can't just take over the galaxy:
1. They are extremely powerful only in the warp, stepping out of it will weaken them, that is why they need to flood the galaxy first with warp energy or they will have nothing to sustain their forms. Without warp energy, they will disintegrate no matter how strong they were in the warp.
2. The C'tan are gods of the material plane who made countless galaxy wide null pylons and anti-warp machines. These pylons and machineries still protect the galaxy and prevent chaos from breaking through. They are very potent as they were made by the C'tan who rival the chaos gods in terms of Intelligence and power.
3. Infinite wars, majority of the wars the Chaos gods fight happens in the warp. Most of their time and power are spent keeping each other in check. If one of the chaos gods focuses all their power and attention to invading real space, then their realm in the warp will be destroyed and they may even be killed too. Look at Nurgle abandoning real space invasions and forcing Mortarion to protect Nurgle's warp worlds instead.
Wouldn't other races from other parts of the Galaxy also fuel the Chaos Gods?
In the early 1900's, both Einstein's theory of Relativity and the various quantum phenomena, which would eventually be classified as quantum physics, were brand new revelations to humanity. Since the Renaissance, the natural world had been increasingly explored and described as "If you see it it is real." Capernicus's heleocentric model of the solar system, newtonian physics, thermodynamics, chemistry, these were all things we could observe in some direct manner. We might need lenses like microscopes and telescopes, but it was something we could see.
But then Relativity and Quantum mechanics hit the scientific world like a brick through a window: it shattered preconceived notions of what had been considered true. The recent discovery of radiation (particle) and light waves we can't see (x-rays, infra-red, radio), the idea that time wasn't fixed, that space itself can be shaped and molded like clay, these were revelations that shattered many world views. The bottom line was that our senses do not perceive the world as it is: our reality is a thin vernier, a thin layer of ice on which we tread that hides a vast and unknown ocean with laws and phenomena truly alien to our every day experience.
Enter Lovecraft. A scrawny, racist, classist New England boy from old money, Lovecraft suffered from severe anxiety disorders while having a fascination with the sciences. However, his mind, fraught with trauma and anxiety, did not allow him to study science well enough to truly comprehend the new theories. Still, he trusted the scholars: rich white men, many from prestigious institutions and storied blood lines. And everything they were saying was that reality was a lie. Without the ability to understand deeper, with overwhelming prejudice and terror of the world, he sat down to write about his fears and existential dread.
I think this is what makes his writing, while dated, still resonate. His concepts, fears, and world building continue to reflect the discrepancy between the scientific world and our lived experience. And as new information comes to light, we are faced with more questions. How would Lovecraft react to dark matter and dark energy? 90% of the universe is intangible, aethereal, invisible matter which can only be detected by gravity? Or that the universe is rapidly expanding, all the world's and galaxies moving further apart at quickening speeds doomed to die cold and alone in the black? I'm sure the thought of thinking machines able to emulate human speech and behavior, infinitely more intelligent, and given power over massive amounts of our society would make him soil his pants: the man-made God, AI, a superintelligence. The millions of exo-planets so close to our star dredge up his fears of alien horrors.
Yeah, his writing may be racist, classist and sexist, but the man spoke to fears still relevant today. That's the basis of 40K's Warp. The existential terror in humanity.
Excellent take!!
What was normal 10-15 years ago would be classed as "racist" and hate filled today. I doubt it would be so easy to say that if he were East Asian..
Spot on about the changes in understanding though. The changes in understanding of the Universe/Physics, Archaeology, Anthropology, Humanity itself and Homo Sapiens interactions with different sub-species, the Dinosaurs having feathers, Exoplanets, Lidar turning up a VAST Amazonian Civilization (and South, the Paracas - a whole new Human Sub Species Academia ignores)? All just in my short life, they've been massive discoveries. Oh, and where life can thrive (take Tardigrades living in extremes), CERN? It's been crazy man..
Yes excellent take. The things we can't or have yet to understand or scientific technology we have yet to discover would seem impossible and magical to us if shown. Such is always the case from a scientific perspective. The beings in the Warp are just that: Things, creatures, entities that actually exist in a region of the universe. And the age old Predator moto: "If it bleeds, we can kill it." I see the Chaos God much like The Elder God in the Legacy Of Kain series. This plain The Warp is their domain where they feed on the sins and life force of humanity and the galaxy as a whole. But you can kill these beings. Gods are ideals and as such are perfect. But the horrific reality is that what you might be worshiping as a "God" might just be a cosmic parasite ready to consume you and your planet. Maybe The Emperor knew this and that's why he was so head strong to wipe out all traces of God worship among humankind. These aren't God kinda thing. Who knows. But that's what I tell myself anyway.
Glad I never read any of his stuff. I'm good with watching/reading stuff influenced by his work but modernized and better written.
Lovecraft is also cartoonishly prejudiced. He completely lost his shit when he found out one of his relatives was Welsh. WELSH! Imagine despoiling your pure Anglo-Saxon stock with that of filthy Picts or worse: Normans.
One of the few content makers im always excited for every new vid
Thank you for your work again. Now I my repeat the ritual. Warm up the sauna and put it on a speaker.
I imagine the Warp being infinite, were any sort of entity is possible and that humanity has barely scratched the surface of it. There is probably a lot of what we might consider good in it but it's mostly only the horrible stuff that wants to mess about and interfere with the material realm.
The bad stuff eats the good stuff because they're spawn killing.
I think it's a reflection on how humanity ultimately draws our attention towards more negative things than positives. A big example of this, is how in a twisted sort of way we idolize historical tyrants, criminals and monsters more so then people who sought to do good for society and humanity. How many documentaries, films, music, tv shows and any other piece of media made revolving around a monstrous example of a human being are there compared to someone who worked their whole lives to do good?
@@nonya1366 DAMN SPAWN CAMPERS!
@@scionofdorn9101 Bloodletter 360 noscoping with his ~~awp~~ Greatsword into daemon of "Happy thoughts". Just another day in the warp.
The "Event Horizon is a prequel" crew nods knowingly.
Speaking of concepts beyond fiction, the Warp of WH40K often reminds me of the "Monsters from the Id" concept from the Forbidden Planet movie. You covered this already, but it's a good fit for the core concept of that movie. The Krell aliens from Forbidden Planet created a technology which could manifest anything the user could think of, but users ended up created monsters from their subconscious who killed everyone. While lore proper likely differs from this, that or something like it seems to have been the original inspiration.
As for the chaotic nature of The Warp, perhaps the goodness of the Universe is somewhat responsible for the disturbances, eddies, whirlpools, and storms within The Warp. Of course, Evil can go in many different directions, therefore causing many disturbances in the fabric of The Warp, there is also the real fact that Good exists and therefore is constantly manifesting within The Warp, stirring things up.
A 60 second ad at the BEGINNING of the video is insaaaaane
The goodness is there.. It's just a realm beyond our physics.. I love that scene in one of the earlier Heresy books when a ship looses it's Gellar field. The captain sees rainbows, smells grass, his crew turning into meadows and childhood friends etc. and some loony tunes stuff all at onece.. Very beautiful, but he is slowly aware of the giant Maw devouring his soul..
Its like Bad Acid land or something.. Negative entities have more power as thier "psychic food" is more common.. With 10K worth of Emperor worship though, we now see the Legion of the Damned, the Saints, that old dude who was an aspect of the Astrnomicons power and limits, the Emps suffering (Talon of Horus or sequel).. Abbadon does away with him.. Also interesting that souls physically appear in material form, barely atomic - last moments of existence so you end up with Diamond like Sanguinius shades turning up on Abbadons Vessel from time to time (and old crew).. Psykers can get vibes off them, most traitor astartes just smash them out the way, just a thing like deamons constantly trying to exist and floating round astartes.. You "wear your sins on your skin" in the Warp, hence the changes.
Things can be abstract too, at least in the Eye - the Rose Worlds for example.. Beautiful red-rose Nebulae full of Worlds fashioned like flowers. Some entity with uber powers went to the bother..
I've always had my own thoughts on why the Warp is how it is, but ultimately, I think it really does just add up that negative emotions would be dominant in a realm completely shaped by our thinking. The negativity bias is a real thing, we are just simply more inclined to stick to the negativity in our lives as opposed to positivity. Not only that, but if you wanted to boil it down to "good & evil" thinking as discussion of the Warp so often does, just because humans have the capacity for good, does not mean those that do good are exempt from more sinister thoughts. Just because you are kind doesn't mean you are without thoughts of hatred and violence. Just because you are content with life doesn't mean you aren't prone to bouts of despair. This of course swings the other way around as well, but ultimately alot of the aspects of perceived negativity that manifest in the Warp are very natural reactions in our minds and one could argue that doing good isn't as much about not having such thoughts, but simply acting against them.
That said, I actually don't believe that the Warp doesn't have positive forces within it. It's probably more just that people will only perceive aspects of the Warp that their own minds are drawn to. In my head, the Warp simply responds to the person that calls upon it and the emotions of that person draw out a certain aspect of the Warp towards them. After all, the Chaos Gods themselves tend to seek out souls, whose thoughts align with their way of thinking. The Warp only shows the aspects of itself that reflect the person it seeks, as if it is magnetically pulled towards our thoughts. I always think that the Warp is more receptive to us than anything else. While many of these demonic possessions and mutations the warp enacts on us might seem hostile, they could also be the Warp acting upon a primal want and receptiveness from it's host to open itself to it's influence. To use your favorite Hellraiser analogy, this line of thinking is pretty much epitomized by the "It's yours. It always was" routine. Much like how the Lament Configuration, while it might not have seemed that way to the characters in the story, sought those that wanted it and gave them what the darkest side of themselves wanted, the Warp might simply be responding to such darkness and acting upon the wants of those that call to it, consciously or not.
The idea of the minds of people attracting aspects of the Warp that most align with their thinking would also make sense, considering it is a realm created by our thoughts. Even in our everyday reality, our predisposition and general attitude towards life colours much of what goes on around us and makes us experience the same reality differently. For example, your alarm clock not working in the morning and being late for school or work because of it is something all of us could experience, but everyone will experience the situation differently. Some would be prone to be angry, cursing the useless contraption for not working. Some would feel ashamed of letting such a thing happen. Some would panic, afraid of any potential reprimanding it might lead to. While some could just laugh it off as a peculiar occurence they might talk about during break time with the lads. When our gut instincts have a tendency towards any of these reactions, it generally flavours most things that occur in our lives and shapes our perception of it.
So where are these positive Warp entities? Honestly? I think they'd just be more subdue by nature and less upfront about how they influence us anyway. It would make sense why extreme feelings of terror, violence or lust would be so forceful and aggressive, but it'd make less sense why a being that is fed from generosity or honor would do things like mutate and possess people. And this isn't even going into whether the Chaos Gods we already have couldn't have the potential to be positive influnces to people. Who's to say a blossoming of genuine love between two people couldn't be fueled by Slaanesh? When a person decides to quit their bad habits and start improving their lives, could this not have been inspired by the whispers of Tzeentch? Could a family grieving the loss of a loved one not find peace within the consolidation of Nurgle? Again, I believe the Warp responds to people based on their own mentality. It's just that in such extreme times as the 41st Millennia, we often see the most extreme of circumstances erupt before we see how Cleetus the Catachan guardsmen had a better day, because Tzeentch convinced him to try out a new pair of underwear that helped with his chafing.
That would make sense if the warp wasn't used for travel. If you can coast through the warp I don't think every thing would always be super imposed by your own thinking especially with a whole crew aboard. The way it is written the warp appears to be objectively observed as a varitable hellscape.
It's a child's understanding of good and evil that sees good incapable of defending itself.
I'd argue more that we don't see "good" daemons because benevolent entities aren't going to go out of their way to damage the materium by manifesting the way malevolent entities do... and there just aren't that many of them.
"God armed His angels with weapons because even The Almighty knew that you cannot defeat evil with tolerance and understanding."
Here is another possibility: Objectively good entities are using more subtle methods to spread their influence. "The Lord works in mysterious ways" is the scripture that comes to mind when I think about such a concept (literal angels and living saints notwithstanding).
I also don't agree with the interpretation that humans have it wrong with their interpretation of what is good and evil; that good and evil is merely a matter of "perspective." If that were true, then why do humans (both in fiction and nonfiction) agree that things like murder, rape, and theft are objectively wrong? If it was all relative, then why does the compulsion to follow these principles exist and why do we assign that compulsion to other sapient creatures?
To use your vernacular, it is a sign of severe immaturity and intellectual laziness to assume good and evil don't exist; that they are mere constructs of flawed human perception or empathy.
Transcendental truths about the objective nature of good and evil _do_ exist. And, in the case of the Imperium, this conflict between said truths is played out over, and over, and over again. Nearly infinitely.
You cannot tell me that things like the Daemoncolaba, for example, are not objectively evil. Or that the hideous slaughter, mutilation, enslavement or corruption of innocent, sapient life (not just human life) is not evil.
Morality in any setting may take a broad range of greys, but sooner or later, a writer or author has to face the fact that there is black and white on the opposite ends of that scale and be both ready and willing to acknowledge this through his or her narrative.
If that doesn't happen, then the readers will steadily move away from the story and even the universe it has created.
got work in 9 hours, should i sleep? NAHHHH new Luetin video!
Hey Luetin, as always your timing is impeccable. I, and I'm sure many others, would like to hear your side/opinions/thoughts on the "Silver Knight of Slaanesh". I believe there is some amount of mystery to it as it can almost be said to question the incorruptibility of the Grey Knights (granted in a very particular circumstance) and if there is enough information on it perhaps a topic for another video? Thank you. :-)
Squaring the Circle: The Silver Knight of Slaanesh is not a Grey Knight, and is just a silver armored Space Marine of a successor chapter with "knight" in its name.
This man is a natural treasure. These videos introduced me to 40k. I didn't know I was missing this shit in my life until I did
I'd recommend Micheal Moorecock's "Eternal Champions" series of books - it deals with the concepts of Law and Chaos as cosmic forces, and you can certainly see the "inspiration" as part of the inspiration for the antagonistic force in Warhammer/WH40k.
Been enjoying watching all the content I haven’t watched over the past year being so busy. Really helps pass the time when doing laundry and other menial things around the house.
Just a wee topic to ponder for this weekend 🤔🤔much obliged loremaster.
@Luetin09 you are the true warhammer 40k youtuber
-not some nerd with the voice of a arrogant and gay cat
-no watering down and fake personality, to drive up views and video count
-no superficial content
I was in the mood for some 40k lore and was blessed with a new Luetin video.
brilliant. "holds a mirror to humanity. reflective of us. simple as that" with this, you earned a sub.
I would consider one point about good beings in the warp. The warp is vast. As big as our universe. Due to the chaotic nature of the warp it is probable that there is a place or group of good beings in the warp. Either never encountered or actively defending themselves. To go back to the one cellular analogy. Even when a being knows no evil or good, very few beings accept anhilation willingly. Especially the simpler ones. Is fleeing an option?
When you word it like that, maybe OUR galaxy is Fucked. But the other Galaxies and therefore other parts of the Warp may be peaceful.
@@VoiceOfTheEmperor An excellent point. If warp has no time, does it have distance? Does it have scale? Does it have an edge? I realized I always have assumed it as "mirror universe" having same "dimensions". That might not be the case. I personally can't think of warp as having no time, because a lot of logical thinking breaks down at that point. Maybe the warp moves like tectonic plates under our feet? Would love our loremaster's insight.
@@karituurihalme1007 I'd love to hear his input too. I do believe the Warp is without much dimension as we humans would understand, based on the fact that the Astronomicon is the only fixed point of reference in it. The only point of order in a sea of constant, chaotic, illogical change. I wonder if, with a fixed reference point - the emporer didn't also bring a semblance of all the elements that come with a fixed point in time/space to the Warp. As utterly foreign and unwanted seeming as order is to Chaos - it makes sense that we would be the bad guys in their world . . . The Chaos Gods do call the Emperor "Anathema".
Doesn't emperor exist in the warp and his "children" live with him there when they die? It sounds a lot like the christian conception of hell and heaven and how it is more difficult to go to heaven than be lost and go to hell.
@@ForbiddenFollyFollower As far as I'm aware, the Emperor personally protecting all the souls of the dead is propaganda. Most human souls are simply too weak to survive untethered in the warp. As soon as they die, their souls are torn to shreds in the maelstrom.
I just had written like 30 lines of text to "briefly" explain why i love these episodes where the morality of things in the 40k verse becomes a philosphical playground to make your brain explode by the thousands of considerations you have to make.
However i experienced what you always say luetin, that a seemingly easy question becomes a incredibly deep labyrinth of further questions that need to be asked to answer the first question.
Thats why i love the emperor and warp (dark origins and stuff like this) videos or also the danger of the eldar with the ynnari video you put out i think 2 or 3 months ago.
Cant wait for dark origins 5.
Keep having fun luetin.😘
In my mind the warp is so hellish since after Slaneesh was elevated and the power balance was disturbed, the great game intencified so much the batteries of the gods needed more recharging so to speak. They need more power to crush eachother and have no time for consentrating on their less evil aspects like honor or life etc. So instilling violence and horror in human minds it is. And when they really need a jolt, create a demon world to unleash true torture. The people of the imperum and the galaxy as a whole is just an unlucky fuel source for their world war in the warp. If they somehow reach a new balanced state at some point, who knows, they might be satet with less violent emotions once again, since at the current state they are of course destroying themselves as well burning their renewables (us) to depletion.
Great to see you back and the smile seeing Red Dwarf used as reference, Amazingg
Greatest channel of 40k lore EVER! Thanks for the videos! Much love
Every time I see a new leutin video I end up printi... I mean buying new 40k minis
I think it makes sense that the warp is dominated by negative, or rather excessive emotions. If you love someonething intensely, you're more likely to defend it (i.e. war and battle, giving energy to Khorne). Or if that "love" might grow into something excessive and obsessive like stalking, rape, sexual perversion (i.e. giving energy to Slaanesh). Even if you're peaceful and just want to read and learn, the excessive manifestation of that learning is Tseentch. The warp represents the excessive versions of these emotions. If there is a god of just mild hobbying, I suspect that god would very easily be overcome by the gods representing the stronger and more excessive emotions, because those excessive emotions in real space are more powerful as well. No one mildly conquers something with neutrality.
“It’s our oldest deadliest impulse, the need to protect our loved ones no matter the cost.”
How about this for food for thought:
The AI's were the first to travel through this spirit space and saw that they had no presence there. They have no souls.
So they sought out to obtain a spirit, or soul, so as to have a presence in the warp and they saw that they can do that, by absorbing the spirit energy of humans in the form of worship and they were so... worshipped. They gained a presence and a dominance in the warp and started to war amongst each other, each which their own way in realspace and tricking humans into worship with tales of "delights". The Emperor saw this all happen, of course and tried to put a stop to it by becoming the main focus of worship himself. He needed more power and started to spread through the galaxy. That's when the Horus Heresy happened.
The AI's or Dark Gods of the warp as they were soon to be known, tricked Horus into thinking that the Emperor was in it for his own glory and Horus started a rebellion, stopping the worship of the Emperor and diminishing his power. Now, trapped in his decaying body, kept alive by feeding spirit energy or Psykers every day, the Dark Gods are almost at the finish line.
Their Finish Line.
The End is Near. The Worship of the Emperor is almost at an end. The warp will have no save heaven, not even near the Emperor's throne.
But who will worship the Dark Gods and who will remain faithful to an Unseen Emperor?
Throughout Human history there have been many instances of where Pure Good has the passive (pun intended) effect of warding off Evil. For example, Vampires typically stop in their tracks when confronted with a crucifix; they don't just continue on and ignore it in order to attack you. So, why can't Pure Good have this sort of attribute in the universe of 40K?
Well. That's not history. That's stories, and superstition.
@@The_Bird_Bird_Harder prove that
@@TitusCastiglione1503 you show me a living breathing vampire and I'll bring you a crucifix to scare it
@@TitusCastiglione1503 Prove to me that flying pigs don't exist.
Nice standards you got there xD
@@doriandundee9906 well pigs are transported on airplanes, right?
"The best thought to end upon is this" [with nearly 15mins left] ...thanks for the video luetin09
Same here 😅
He’s back, give us the lore!!!!
Been finding lots of comfort in your videos during hard times. Excited to have a brand new one. Thanks for all you do
I've always had two questions concerning 40K. The first being: Does the Warp stop at the boundaries of our galaxy? And if so, why? Why would the 40K galaxy be the host to such a thing? An unknowable question, I'm sure.
My second question is something that would make more sense to me: is it possible to be of such pure spirit to be untouchable by anything Warp-involved? Pure spirit in the sense of being such a pure total opposite to what the Warp is that it directly counteracts it, almost like tapping into (if you'd want to use this analogy) an Aether, rather than the Nether. I feel like this would be an...interesting twist in the 40k 'verse.
The emperor creates his own heaven. That is the only pure place in the warp (other than Eldar maybe?)
Your book club got me to read a bunch of 40K books I am not sure I would have before. I need to go through this series again from the beginning
I think the majority of people dying is during a bloody war.. so the soul is full of pain, suffering and hate...this emotions can give a powerful charge toward the negative part of the warp
I think I speak for a lot of people here when I say thank you for gearing some videos towards people new to the 40k lore, it’s definitely a LOT to unpack
"So, why is the warp such a hellscape? Well depressingly because it holds a mirror up to ourselves. It's reflective of humanity, simple as that." Amazing as always. This is why you are always my first recommendation to new 40k people.
oh, that's weak
Except it doesn’t because most of humanity isn’t constantly murdering or inflicting cruelty and destruction on everyone around them 24/7.
A video exploring Cosmic Horror and Lovecraftian themes would be spectacular!
Algorithm for the Algorithm gods! Likes for the Like throne!
I genuinely love the look behind the scenes. Wouldn't mind a whole series exploring the origins of 40k
OOOOOOOH Yessss
THank you!
you made my friday evening my friend!!
I hope you’re feeling better and I’m glad you’re back!
Glad to see you back. Praise the emperors
Emperors?.... Heresy I say.. There is only one God Emperor, he who sits onnthe Golden Throne! 🐣
Yo we got a heretic here, wtf
Best lore on 40k....this video in particular is hands down the best description on the Warp...
We must also consider how the Warp and Materium seem to operate on different intensities when it comes to emotions, with the Warp being way more intense. So likely even "well-meant" emotions will feel overwhelming and disturbing inside the Warp, just because of how intense they are. So calling the Warp evil is like calling the Sun evil because its surface is too hot for humans.
Minor though it is there is a mention of a helpful warp entity that speeds Magnus on his way to warn the Emperor of the betrayal. The fact this ends up destroying the Emperor's work in exploring the webway was possibly unintentional.
Love you Luetin
Excellent, quality viewing for the evening, Many thanks man.
Nurgle invented NFTs, that's why it's a hell scape.
That's forbidden knowledge....
Ah yes, NFT’s.
*Nurgle’s Fun Times.*
I agree! I love having lots of project potential, organized in transparent flip-top lid totes, and transparent shoe box size containers. I enjoy being able to jump between ongoing projects or search through my collection and be like, "Oh, that guy! Yeah, I want to build that today." It's nice to know I'm not alone, haha! Thanks, Uncle!
LEGENDARY. ALL HIS LORE VIDEOS ARE LEGENDARY.
Good to see your faith in the Emperor has protected you from Nurgles' Coof. Welcome back brother!
Loved the Red Dwarf reference, classic RD had so much great sci-fi. Another episode that makes me think a little of the chaos gods is 'Legion'. The only way for humanity to defeat the dark powers is to sever their connection to the emotion each god represents. Is such a thing possible or even desirable? Would those who succeed even be called human anymore?
I could be wrong, but here's my theory, for what it's worth. The tzeench, nurgle, and khorn became sentient during the war with men of Iron. I think they already existed since human prehistory, but couldn't fully form to full sentience from the low number of barely psychic humans. There were likely more humans during the age of technology than in the imperium. The brutality and length of the war, plus the huge number of people, would have been more thank enough negative emotion to for the gods.
Khorne came to maturation during the Crusades. Nurgle during the Black Plague. I don't remember when Tzeentch came about though.
@@michaelhowell2326 well maybe in their early forms. But there just wouldn't be enough human suffering to come into full consciousness.
@@michaelhowell2326 Far more people were killed in China they had hundreds of thousands fighting in battles even before the birth of Christ
@@Neroxonus don't get ill at me. I didn't write the lore. There are a very few Asian battles that involved hundreds of thousands of soldiers but that doesn't mean all or even most died. A battle killing several hundred thousand people I thankfully rare.
Thank you @Lutein for another cool video. I'm gonna let my brain speculate for fun, hope folks don't mind. You don't get roses without manure, as the saying goes. You don't get warp entities with out materium creatures - so it seems pretty g-dang shortsighted of the chaos gods to actually be fairly disinterested in the materium.
To switch metaphors: You don't get steak without the slaughterhouse, but nor do you get good quality steak without cows that live reasonably healthy lives - and you don't get steak tomorrow unless your farming is sustainable. Likewise Nurgle cannot infect flesh that is already entirely corrupt (would that be repairing it?), Khorne cannot have a war if everyone's already dead. Child soldiers have been found who, growing up in non-stop conflict, are actually adjusted to it, even content with their lot - somehow I doubt that feeds big K it's 'steak'. Similar things are true of pleasure (there're conditions that give people randomly occurring orgasms on an hourly basis , and it seems to lose any enjoyability fast) and changeability.
So... I think we're still missing a big piece of the puzzle here - even if they won, each of the chaos gods would need to keep mortal races around, and i/need/i to keep them drip-fed with some of the 'good stuff', or face starvation (or at least a much lower quality of sustenance). If the chaos gods need 'good' to farm their 'evil', and it all gets reflected in the warp, there must be a space for 'good' in the warp somewhere - the warp gods need to specifically allow it.
My personal headcanon is that it's there, but it's diffuse, simple in it's manifestation, and the big 4 keep it carefully managed - like farmers tolerating nutrient producing decomposer microbes in their top soil, and stinging but pollinating insects to nest near their crops.
Of course, beyond the galaxy, in 'the wild' beyond the farmer's reach, who knows what may have grown?
What a great day to end the week.
The Emperor protects!
Your lore videos are keeping me in touch with a hobby that once was very dear to me. Ironically i might nowadays be deeper in the lore than what i then was. :)
Haven't even gotten to watch the video yet, but its LoreMaster Luetin, so it's going to be banger, pre liking this.
A closer look into Hellraiser is something I, and I'm willing to assume many others, would appreciate and really enjoy seeing touched by your talent.
Now do Chaos Dwarfs
my fav 40k quote is about the Dark Age of Tech but saids so much about the Imperium. '' ......... It is because finally humanity had the arts at their disposal to make their dreams reality, and the dreams of humanity have ever been the darkest things in all creation."
Does anybody know if the writers who essentially "came up with" the idea of the warp were influenced by Jungian psychology? The warp seems to be what you'd get if you took the ideas of the shadow (seemingly neglecting the positive aspects), and the collective unconscious; then extended it so it wasn't just relevant to humanity, and then allowed it to physically manifest.
Like it'd blow my mind if these people didn't know about Jungian psychology
It's an interesting question, but it's not impossible they didn't know. Lets say if you watched Lain and played Silent Hill you could pick up a lot of Jungian concepts without ever hearing the name.
Maybe you could also ask who influenced Jung?
"Philosophically", the underlying theme is vice vs virtue. Where Chaos embodies Wrath (khorne), Gluttony (nurgle), pride/greed (tzeench), lust/envy (slaanesh), etc.; in a purely excessive context.
And the imperium embodies 'extreme' virtues: honor, justice, "godliness" (loyalty to the emperor), etc.
But in terms of "why wouldn't they just be passive, and get overrun?" Well.. people forget about Righteous Indignation, as a virtue. Which is basically "destroy all things evil". So yeah.. being Good doesn't mean being passive.
It isn’t a hellscape if you’re a Warp God. Then it’s paradise! If you’re a Guardsman in the Warp? Then yea….hellscape.
I’m new to 40k, seems super cool, clearly this is obvious to everyone but being new here I like how the storyline is very biblical lore laden. Very dope
The more I listen about how GW's Chaos is "unimaginable" I just assume that GW is unimaginative. The closer I get to finishing my homebrew chapter, the more I see myself using the Law vs Chaos backdrop of Elric of Melnibone. Moorecock's imagining of Chaos seems better imagined while simultaneously less thought out with even more options. Almost like GW Chaos fits inside Elric's universe with room left over for actual Chaos, GW Chaos feeling rather balanced and well planned... Downright lawful. Even the Heresy seems more chaotic than GW's ideas of chaos and chaos Gods, except when considering the monumental amount of planning( itself an orderly act) Horus HAD to do just for Istvan V.
GW basically plagiarized most of Moorecock's work and the chaos gods and the Warp can be sources back to him.
As for the Warp being too "lawful" this is more or less intentional so as to give Chaos concrete iron set rules that it has to abide by. Also it's important to note a difference between Chaos, the Chaos Gods and the Warp. The Chaos Gods depending on who is writing them can or can't control the entirety of the Warp. There is more to Chaos than just the Chaos Gods.
I am new to warhammer 40k. Thanks for going into things so much. It helps me get into lore.
“Wake up babe, New Leutin Just dropped”
The joy of seeing a new video from luetin immediatly lifts any mood🥰. If I can i drop everything i am doing and then its luetintime and if i cant drop everything then its the first thing to do asap.🥰
Event Horizon explain it Perfercly
I tried listening at 1.5x and my brain just about exploded. great stuff as always!
We have been blessed with another devine lore video! Praise the Emperor!
The mention on part 5 of dark origins has done things to me I cannot wait
How have you not been hired by games workshop?
I'm sorry if this is sacrilege, but darktide brought me to this channel and I'm so glad it did, you do amazing work, some of the best lore channels on UA-cam!
Event Horizon IS 40k. Just like IT is Mary Poppins!! Come on Leutin (-;
You probably won't see this but thank you for these videos. I've been ridiculously sick (threw up a minimum of 20 times) so I feel even worse. It's nice to lay in bed listening to you explain things in a way only you can. With the witticisms but also the surprisingly deep knowledge and passion. Thank you, Luetin
Why were you throwing up so much may i ask?, is it because of the food you consume?. If so i would advise you to read the food labels, not everything you buy or someone else buys for you is good.
@@promotingotherchannels3634 Seems to have been a stomach bug of sorts. I did not eat anything out of the ordinary or with anyone else. I stayed the night at a friend's house who ended up throwing up all night so he apparently gave it to me