NCR Isn't imperial This is USSR Propaganda Point About USA Who people imply NCR Because according to there NCR Is allegory of USA . You want it imperial Power Look up Russia Interior television They are threatening my country With invasion , Genocide , annexation any other day And they actually making imperialist war Right now Against my neighbor Country. Ukraine . By the way Imperialist power in fallout is Legion they are literally Roman "Empire !!" Wannabe.
"There's an expression in the wasteland 'Old World Blues' it's refers to those so obsessed with the past that they can't see the future much less the present for what it is" - - I think this quote perfectly summarises my thoughts on Fallout as a while. I've held on to FNV for years now and I've decided accept the fact that Fallout will never be that good again.. It's easier to just let go
The whole 15 years for the NCR in cali to be destroyed is crazy when it took the NCR like 17 something years and 3 battalions during the "Pacification of the Mojave" Campaign to take the southern Mojave and the Laughlin/Bull Head City area from tribals(just south of Vegas). 15 FUCKIN YEARS for an empire like that to fall apart back into the wastes? So much drastic change so incredibly quickly. Shitting on the NCR on this level just feels like shitting on the original Fallout Games and their lore at this point. They just flew in with a giant airship and took a steamy brotherhood shit all over the west coast lore.
They easily could've made it about the ncrs struggle with expansion, showing the at home problems of the ncr, or something along those lines, not just absolutely destroying them off the bat
@@Equinox226 Fr even if they wanted to go the route of destruction it would take way more than 15 years for the NCR to end up how it was shown in california in the show. SoCal was the center of their civilization and it all just vanished and a new town named filly just appears? What about the actual established cities lol. To their credit they showed the lighted up boneyard at the end but why didn't they just show off the boneyard earlier and their lack of electricity or something instead of fucking filly lol
Im just happy to find a pocket of actual functioning humans. I had one dude tell me the ghoul juice isnt a retcon because itll be in a later game. Like what???
@arctic_dwella it's actually insane the levels of cope they have. It's not even mental gymnastics because that would require some level of thought. They actually believe the things they say
Let's just be honest here about all the lore breaking stuff, the writers just didn't do their research. It's the simplest solution and the one that makes the most sense. All other explanations are just fans chosing to ignore the truth. The writers just didn't care enough to respect the source material. I get it that most people like the power armor and 10mm pistol, but just having fallout stuff in it doesn't make it a good fallout show. And no, season two will be just as bad. They will make up some weak Canon ending for New Vegas and have it be all about Vault Tec and Lucy's dad.
@@HyakuSh1kisadly that won’t happen because of the false allegations. Chris did make a two part read on Medium about the tv show and he reviews what he likes and doesn’t like (the retcons) about the show.
Exactly, I hate when fans do olympic level mental gymnastics to make sense of the senseless. The reality is the show’s writers just didn’t care to make a tv show for fallout fans they just wanted to make their own show and they were allowed to work with a popular IP that they were unfamiliar with.
They also changed the location of Shady Sands. In the games, it's around the Death Valley or maybe Yosemite area. The show moved it about 300 miles to the LA area.
The problem with the fall of Shady Sands is that they fucked up both the cause and the result. They don't pay even the slightest lip service to any NCR territory besides Shady Sands, and just expect the audience to accept that a whole nation collapses back into a lawless, anarchic desert wasteland in the span of 14/19 years just because their capital was destroyed. It just feels like they wanted to keep playing in the Mad Max aesthetic at a time and place when it didn't make sense within the lore of the world, so they came up with a really cheap and quick way to justify it. Like, if the NCR had fallen due to mounting problems with their government, the defeat in the Mojave campaign being the last straw, leading to a civil war and a warlord period, ultimately ending in what we see in the show... that would have been fine! Heck, even just _acknowledging_ that there are other cities, even entire states, within the NCR, and telling the audience at least _something_ about what happened to Vault City, New Reno, The Hub, Arroyo, Adytum, Junktown, etc (or at least some of them), would've been okay! But instead, the show acts as if Shady Sands and the NCR are the same thing, and destroying the former automatically results in the complete destruction of the latter. Because a wasteland aesthetic is more important than the politics of the post-war civilization, I guess.
I don’t know why they had the show take place in California and not visit any major settlements from the games in California. Only one is Shady Sands and that gets plopped into LA then nuked. Had this show been anywhere else it wouldn’t feel off in terms of lack of any actual NCR presence / remnants, vaults sticking out of the ground where The Master probably would have seen them early, and having to fly the Eastern BoS across the country to have them blow out the NCR. I hope Season 2 isn’t a repeat of destroying any steps towards actual post-post apocalyptic development.
@@w.a.o.a.w I mean at this point, it's just a statement from Bethesda, they're going to pave over the old games to ensure it fits the trajectory they want from the Franchise as a whole. Fallout at this point should be a post-post apocalyptic story, but it seems as though they can't let it change. And with the West Coast being more Post-Post Apocalyptic due to the older games and NV, and 3 and 4 still being mostly stagnant on a society front, now they can use the T.V. show as a blanket over the West, probably if they have plans to use it for 5.
@@Naruku2121 It makes me wonder what they’re going to do with the West coast since Howard apparently shot down ideas from Nolan because they might get used. I would have been somewhat worried what they’d do with it but that is long gone now, the reasons why I liked the older titles are not relevant anymore. Whatever Fallout 5 will be is most likely what you said, to fit their vision of what they think Fallout is which is most highlighted in F4 & 76.
But like, have you considered that like that the ncr blowing up 200 years after the bombs is like really poetic and meaningful and it like means something. I'll say it again, like 200 years, man. That's like a number or something man, like just a good meaningful number. I guarantee you that that was the logic in the writing room. Bethesda has an obsession with surface level deep. They did it with 3 too. They sat around going "200 years? Oh my, that's so smart, yknow like oh man, that's good, that's smart." That's why nothing makes any sense in 3. Similar issue in 4. You know, for a fact, they were so impressed with themselves for just having the idea to do a man out of time and a "Bladerunner." Why have good writing when you can have, "that sounds, sooo deeep, we gotta do that, bro."
Finally some sense. People need to accept that writers make mistakes. Some Fallout fans seem to think that Nolan and Co should be immune to criticism. Is it the end of the world? No. And does this one mistake make the show bad? No. But, for me, this combined with many of the new stories created from the show reek of laziness. I just cannot understand why Fallout fans are so desperate to bury any reasonable criticism. Good video, thanks!
Bethesda fan keep whining about FL:NV fan and classic FV fan nitpicking, critizing everything Bethesda made, yet it their positive reaction to every piece of slop that Todd feed them is why we can't have good thing anymore
yeah I fuckin hate when a reviewer has a steaming pile of shit, correctly calls it a steaming pile of shit, but says the problems are wokeness and some racist shit like...bro you are destroying the validity of your word by being insane instead of pointing out the actual flaws of the show. This way defenders of the criticized object can point at this review and say "look, everyone that criticizes this thing is crazy! this proves the show is good!"
@@neopangean6218 yeah, someone said that this show was bad because they had interracial marriage💀😭😭why couldn't he point out some actual problem like the shitty characters or the terrible action scenes😭😭😭
Theres a lot of cope coming from people trying to justify the lore breaking moments of the show, however, it's pretty obvious that the show writters were doing their own thing, but instead of letting it be a spinoff, Todd idiotically declared the show to be cannon with the games.
Mostly it’s a knee jerk reaction to being told that something you like is trash I’ve been ranted at for an hour before because I told a Steven universe fan that after watching it I didn’t like it, and it usually gives the same vibe as that. This is also coming from a fallout 4 fan too if that helps.
Tbqh, some of the FNV fans are a bit deranged and unhinged. But now every criticism of the moderns state of the franchise is dismissed, because ha-ha, your just angery about New Vegas, ha-ha, fallout 76 is good now, CHUD!
@@yaldabraxasperhaps “some” of the FNV fanbase may be irrational non-critical toxic critics. Although there’s no denying, on a rational and clearly artistic bias the TV show has is quite apparent when you truly look behind the scenes and overall symbolism. One of the show runner Graham Wagner, he alongside Geneva in a confirmed interview with Todd Howard the conman himself said so that those 2, came up to him in saying they want to nuke shady sands for no reason whatsoever. The fact Todd sweet little lies Howard, had no fucking backbone telling those 2 hacks to NOT nuke shady sands without any actual consideration. Tells you everything you need to know. Is baffling we have people like Graham Wagner in handling to ‘adapt’ fallout on a tv show format, let alone matters of artistic narrative direction is painfully insulting. Again Graham Wagner in one of his interviews or just watch Maulers video goes like this “Remember this, Remember that uh no story.” It’s clear it’s a direct reference of Easter eggs, pun intended in how over inflated the Tv show has of said game references speaks for itself. Rather any original thought put into it, or better yet explore a new region be it Texas or Seattle city and none of this mess wouldn’t exist. Naturally that requires actual talent, and understanding how to make original yet intricate content of factions , world building , atmosphere and social climate in a Nuclear Post-Apocalyptic setting like fallout of various different regions.
@@yaldabraxasyeah new vegas fans are a bit brash, idk what the big deal if some people like fallout 3 or 4. 3 is still my favorite game but I cant say that anywhere without someone calling me a dogmatic bethesda rider
New Vegas fans are mindlessly elitist about New Vegas. The fandom is a giant circlejerk that dehumanizes everyone who shows the slightest liking towards Fallout 3 and 4. Source: me, a New Vegas fan.
Another point: In the Fallout TV show, a billboard on the way to Shady Sands says “First Capital of the NCR.” Either the NCR moved capitals before it was nuked, or they made a new one after Shady Sands was nuked. Either way, they both give more credibility to the NCR surviving. They may be hiding in their northern territories.
Except that Todd himself said it was nuked right after New Vegas and during New Vegas, people are still calling Shady Sands the capital of the NCR. Did they suddenly decide to change capitals a couple of months after NV just so they could switch out the signage before Hank nuked them? 😂😂 I honestly take it as a mistake on the show writer's end in thinking the name change from Shady Sands to the NCR in Fallout 2 was them changing capitals. And that’s taking Todd’s word as gospel when it contradicts Lucy saying her mother died during the Great Plague of ‘77 and it being a cover for Hank to leave the vault to his children before nuking Shady Sands. Or disregarding the scene where they show a library slip that shows the last date due was in 2276.
@@Lobsterwithinternet Fair enough, I just wanted to give people a bit more information. I was just saying what I saw in the show. They could've also move capitals years after New Vegas after the nuking.
@@Idunnodudegood, but this only makes the series dumber and more illogical, the series says in such a way that the NKR has been destroyed, angelized, etc.
i think the only reason bethesda keeps the brotherhood is because they see the brotherhood as synonymous with power armor (brand wise) they for some reason think that if no brotherhood, then no armor idk why they think this but they do
Test vaults were implicitly created as a result of the Enclave, I am in NO WAY defending the writing of this show, but the very purpose of Vault-Tec creating the vaults, was so that the Enclave could build a Spaceship, using all of the results from the test vaults placed by Vault Tec. The Enclave predated the Vault Tec vaults being built, because they were a “shadow government” faction.
pretty sure the whole enclave space ship thing is not canon. tim cain mentioning it as the intention of the vaults doesnt mean its canon. it has to actually be supported in a game
@@anathame3649 yeah its from the fallout bible, which while it has been used in every game to get ideas from any thing in there is not canon but can give insight to the possible canon.
the enclave being a larger presence outside of an oil rig and some other places is my headcanon too tbh, i just cannot fathom that a powerful elite organization that predates the war and which more or less knew that the bombs were gonna fall eventually wouldn't be more prepared maybe they just don't or are unable to cooperate? like maybe they had a comms blackout, or maybe it's similar to how federal law enforcement in america tends to not coordinate their efforts well and end up stepping on each other's feet, idk... i think there's potential there with the latter, like enclave cells who have different ideologies and etc
Even if it just from FO2 without the consideration of outside source, the Enclave build those vault to study the reaction of people in isolation situation so that they can use it to build a better America after eradicating everthing with the FEV Also the Encalve still there in FO3 and the show it crazy, shitting writer retconing shit cause they like the armor
i feel like the entirety of the new age fallout community will drop dead before season two comes out from an overdose due to the gallons of copium flowing through their veins over this shitty show
@Ronin.97 dude the amount of videos with the title "why fallout works and halo doesnt" is fucking insanity i couldnt believe my eyes. its like comparing a pile of shit to a puddle of vomit and saying one is better than the other 😂
Great video, you're not toxic about anything, not even slandering the writers or bethesda you're just stating the facts. Everyone makes mistakes, and in lore there have been alot of mistakes, or things being retconned for convenience going back as early as fallout 2. Admittedly the one made in the show is a very large mistake to make, don't know if its possible but maybe season 2 will fix what seem to be inconsistencies, or perhaps they can change the footage of the first season to actually fit into lore (remove whitebord scene & change all audio mentioning the date of the fall), don't know if things like that happen much with shows, but seeing that it's only on prime it wouldn't seem too hard to do.
hopefully video's like this will improve the tv show for the next season, I personally liked the show but can acknowledge some of its issues and hope that it does improve for the better.
@@lagpostg.r.y9955 all the people crying saying Bethesda made new Vegas not cannon when they clearly stated it is and it’s almost like it’s season 1 of a much grander story and we need to be patient and let writers you know finish the story before we just. Say Bethesda hates new Vegas and say the fall of shady sands happened in 2077 aka people like this guy
Also about reusing factions in other games, in cases like the BoS, having them in every title and every state we play in makes the BoS less special and same goes for other factions, creatures and other concepts like FEV. It just takes away from them in the end
i generally agree with your sentiment, but i do have a problem in 11:10. while the enclave doesnt have hundreds of bunkers around the US, i dont think that eliminating both raven rock and control station enclave would destroy the enclave, the enclave should be spread out in the USA and not just concentrated in a few places. the enclave probably has other bunkers (smaller ones ofc, the rig and raven rock were very importanr) in texas, florida and other states, but in fallout we cant find out much from distant places due to obvious reasons. also, the remnants in FNV not only are just a small part of the people in the rig but also could have retreated to raven rock years before but chose not to, saying there was no place to go is a lie since if they really wanted to rejoin the enclave they could have gone to DC 4 years before FNV. and if you go with the argument that it was too far away to get to DC, may i remind you that other remnants did the same journey, most notably autumn senior. adding to this, (not that bethesda considered this) the fallout wiki states that a vertibird can travle 175 miles (tho its probably closer to 350 miles), and traveling from las vegas (where there is a refuling facility) to DC would take 2081 miles, wich would heavily expand the number of enclave refuling stations and presumably facilities finally, unrelated to my enclave rant, there are good arguments to why the NCR collapsed that were not used in the TV show for some godforsaken reason. for example, to quote thomas hildern, director of the OSI, when asked if the NCR has a food shortage "Our studies project an imbalance between production and consumption. Or, for a layman such as yourself - not enough food, too many mouths to feed. Mass starvation. In a decade or so". also, he talks about how little water the NCR has "Bad soil and rationed water. It's to be expected around here, but the rationing's off. Worst part is NCR won't admit it. Pretty hard to meet their crop quotas with twenty percent less water than we're supposed to be getting. Not that OSI cares about any of this."
Don't forget the Chicago Enclave while the game is listed as non Canon Emil Pagliarulo says the game is mostly canon in "broad strokes" including the midwestern brotherhood and the Chicago Enclave.
@@raggedy3759 Because the characters that tell you about the problems tell you that the problems are years down the line. Chief Hanlon and the doctor. But because Shady Sands was nuked right after New Vegas, that put a halt to the overuse as the show demonstrates that the NCR collapsed after the nuke. That and the deaths of 30,000 people kind of reduces the useage of both food and water.
I think the show was actually really solid when assessed seperately from the games. Probably one of my favorite shows evwr so far. I’m very disappointed that they messed up this bad with the ncr story, but I’m optimistic that they can fix it. The ncr isn’t just shady sands, I hope we’ll see more ncr , but I’d still probably thoroughly enjoy season two even if the story was messed up.
Muldaver described Rose finding a PARADISE, not a FALLEN EMPIRE or onr in decline.. It was 2077.. EVERYTHING in the shoe points at 77.. Todd Howards statement is outnumbered by hints in the show.
I tried turn brain off to watch it ..but the show is TERRIBLY written.. When I watched the second time (critically, but NOT canon related).. Has so many contradictions on previous episodes ect . Everything just far too convenient. Often making no sense. But then when you factor in lore as well... Whoa they screwed a lot up. I'm sick of the Bethesda fanboys, hell...ALL Fanboys .. It's unhealthy to deliberately blind yourself to a person, company your own...faults. To be this subservient to a company is just fkn weird.
In F3 the East Coast BOS chapter was established by some of the Brotherhood trying to establish a new base of operations as far away from the NCR as possible. And Autumn only wanted to restore the purifier to make the people of the Wasteland dependent on the Enclave (which is a better critique of the government than Bethesda managed since). Many other parts of the game fall short, but I would say at least those 2 are reasonable.
watching this on 1.25 speed is great b/c I got to hear "akin to China in the 1920s with warlords and local leaders constantly warring with each other over control over California and the power vacuum of the NCR's collapse" and that's an alternate history I wanna see
A better solution to this problem is retconing the show instead of new vegas New vegas is way too good to be replaced by a show that seems underwelming (!WARNING!) I haven't watched it yet, my view point is based of video essays
The BOS in 76 was fairly lacking imo. It constantly felt like it was gearing up for something grand, but it just ends before anything really happens. And on a side note, no matter what you choose, nothing changes. Even the NPCs have the same dialogue despite it sometimes no longer making sense based on what you chose.
So. I’m on your side but the identity of the bomb in Megaton doesn’t actually matter…because it wasn’t dropped. It was in the plane Megaton was partially built from when it crashed. It could be a Chinese nuke, a vault tech nuke, or a U.S. Nuke. It doesn’t really matter because the identity of the plane it crashed in is unknown anyway. And again…because it wasn’t dropped. And in NewVegase’s case it’s the same model reused and if I’m not mistaken the side with the logo on it was intentionally pointed into the dirt probably because so many fans kept claiming it was the VT logo.
I pity that you feel that you need to play 76 just to have more of an authority on the lore You got everything right They're just trying to trick you into playing that god awful game
definetely just an oversight. The makers of the show didn't realize the importance of what they were doing nor did they care to make sure it fit in with the games. Which would be fine if this show was simply a non canon spin-off, but because it is being treated as a new entry of the series, as if it were fallout 5, it is making some big annoying implications.
I agree with most of your arguments in this video, but I partially disagree with your stance on the enclave. The US government has dozens of irl bunkers and installations that they very likely would use in fallout. Raven Rock, Mount Weather, Cheyenne Mountain, Camp David, and the Greenbrier Congressional bunker (the irl whitesprings) just to name a few. I think the primary issue is that Bethesda just doesn’t understand the enclave, nor do they want it to adapt. Also camp david, mt weather, and raven rock are fairly close to each other.
I must admit that you overestimated my intelligence stat (; Seriously though, I wasn't sure if you were just venting or if you were trying to give constructive criticism of the games. So, uh... remember that not everyone picks up on subtext... I guess... or not... I don't really care much, either way.
Caesar's legion is definitively not flashed out enough due to a bunch of cut content regarding their camps and more to explore how they society and citizens under their protection would work. Its funny since the game obviously tends to lean towards the NCR a lot more as we see NCR farmers, different cities that has soldiers protecting and doing scouts, we even see their Quarry workers within Sloan and we can fully understand how they work as a faction besides only the more militaristic side Caesar's have none of this luxury while caesar himself is STUPID because Obsidian felt for the common mistake of associating the Synthesis/Anti-Thesis model to Hegelian dialetics, but he was >>against that idea
I think Caesar misunderstanding Hegelian dialectics is supposed to be intentional, since iirc if you have Arcade as a companion when you visit The Fort, he points out how Caesar’s logic doesn’t make sense.
@@MG12313 no, its not Hegels literally dont say anything about synthesis or anti-thesis Its not a question of caesar misunderstanding Hegels, he never had read it in the first place. This is an internet misconception, something that people spread but os just outright wrong, obsidian saw it and replicated it into Caesar He couldnt have known about such misconception because theres no internet in the FO world, so he just kind of copy pasted a logic that couldnt exist in FO universe out of nowhere.
If the writers read Hegel, he'd say the master slave dialectic ends with the negation of the negation. Also it would make more sense for Caesar to quote Philosophy of Right rather than inforgraphics. Hegel did change his system based on criticsm from Ficte though. It still works because Ceaser is actually established as a brainlet. The legionnaires dress like Hollywood Romans, not the actual Greco Romans who'd honestly would dress pretty similar to Muslims, infact muslims got Hijab from Byzantines
You're missing the fact that Ceasar learned philosophy 200 years after the bomb drop. He probably didn't have access to the full bibliography of Hegelian studies. So give him some slack.
Don't respond to negative commentors. They aren't worth the time, and it just sounds bad. Shit posters are just part of the UA-cam landscape you have to navigate and ignore.
I can understand, why some want to ignore FO 76 in this discussion. Given it's an MMO and a Prequel being made long after the fact. But then again, this is pretty much Bethesda and Emil's MO in a nutshell, so...
@@chryon315 There is. Ignore it. There hasnt been a good Fallout game made by Bethesda so what are you missing out on? Fallout 5 thats even worse then Starfield?
NCR collapsing under the weight of their own imperialist expansion: 😄
NCR collapsing because Todd wants to retcon lore for the show: 😡
The difference is that the first would actually make sense
One is interesting to explore. The other is just «MUH WIFE LEFT ME, LET ME NUKE THE CIVILIZATION».
I would've rather had DUST be the Fallout show's eventual setting instead of Todd's brainletland concept.
NCR Isn't imperial This is USSR Propaganda Point About USA Who people imply NCR Because according to there NCR Is allegory of USA . You want it imperial Power Look up Russia Interior television They are threatening my country With invasion
, Genocide , annexation any other day And they actually making imperialist war Right now Against my neighbor Country. Ukraine .
By the way Imperialist power in fallout is Legion they are literally Roman "Empire !!" Wannabe.
The former would have been a great commentary on imperialism and empires, oh well...
"There's an expression in the wasteland 'Old World Blues' it's refers to those so obsessed with the past that they can't see the future much less the present for what it is" - - I think this quote perfectly summarises my thoughts on Fallout as a while. I've held on to FNV for years now and I've decided accept the fact that Fallout will never be that good again.. It's easier to just let go
Indeed. FNV is the last Fallout. Everything after that is best ignored
The whole 15 years for the NCR in cali to be destroyed is crazy when it took the NCR like 17 something years and 3 battalions during the "Pacification of the Mojave" Campaign to take the southern Mojave and the Laughlin/Bull Head City area from tribals(just south of Vegas). 15 FUCKIN YEARS for an empire like that to fall apart back into the wastes? So much drastic change so incredibly quickly. Shitting on the NCR on this level just feels like shitting on the original Fallout Games and their lore at this point. They just flew in with a giant airship and took a steamy brotherhood shit all over the west coast lore.
They easily could've made it about the ncrs struggle with expansion, showing the at home problems of the ncr, or something along those lines, not just absolutely destroying them off the bat
@@Equinox226 Fr even if they wanted to go the route of destruction it would take way more than 15 years for the NCR to end up how it was shown in california in the show. SoCal was the center of their civilization and it all just vanished and a new town named filly just appears? What about the actual established cities lol. To their credit they showed the lighted up boneyard at the end but why didn't they just show off the boneyard earlier and their lack of electricity or something instead of fucking filly lol
Im just happy to find a pocket of actual functioning humans. I had one dude tell me the ghoul juice isnt a retcon because itll be in a later game. Like what???
I was baffled to see people defending the show. It's actually unbelievable. FO 4 truly tainted the fanbase
Bruh...
@arctic_dwella it's actually insane the levels of cope they have. It's not even mental gymnastics because that would require some level of thought. They actually believe the things they say
>Ghouls use it when their age catches up
>Would become feral
>easy
Maybe its not Ghoul juice but mutation serum lol xD xD xD
I've given up on Fallout since 76. The show was the nail in the coffin for me. At least there is still 1,2, and New Vegas to look back on fondly.
It was never about the fans, it was always about the money.
“Lets take shady sands.. and push it ELSEWHERE.” -some ncr citizen.
An Alaskan Bull Worm found its way to California. They had to ensure their safety. It was the only way.
I don’t know if anyone has ever mentioned this yet, but the “fall of” Shady Sands in 2277 happened during the First Battle of Hoover Dam.
Let's just be honest here about all the lore breaking stuff, the writers just didn't do their research. It's the simplest solution and the one that makes the most sense. All other explanations are just fans chosing to ignore the truth. The writers just didn't care enough to respect the source material.
I get it that most people like the power armor and 10mm pistol, but just having fallout stuff in it doesn't make it a good fallout show.
And no, season two will be just as bad. They will make up some weak Canon ending for New Vegas and have it be all about Vault Tec and Lucy's dad.
Amazon should hire Chris Avellone as a writer and stop listening to Todd and Emil.
@@HyakuSh1kisadly that won’t happen because of the false allegations. Chris did make a two part read on Medium about the tv show and he reviews what he likes and doesn’t like (the retcons) about the show.
@@HyakuSh1ki to be fair chris avellone would approve of the NCR being nuked to death
Exactly, I hate when fans do olympic level mental gymnastics to make sense of the senseless. The reality is the show’s writers just didn’t care to make a tv show for fallout fans they just wanted to make their own show and they were allowed to work with a popular IP that they were unfamiliar with.
They also changed the location of Shady Sands. In the games, it's around the Death Valley or maybe Yosemite area. The show moved it about 300 miles to the LA area.
The problem with the fall of Shady Sands is that they fucked up both the cause and the result. They don't pay even the slightest lip service to any NCR territory besides Shady Sands, and just expect the audience to accept that a whole nation collapses back into a lawless, anarchic desert wasteland in the span of 14/19 years just because their capital was destroyed. It just feels like they wanted to keep playing in the Mad Max aesthetic at a time and place when it didn't make sense within the lore of the world, so they came up with a really cheap and quick way to justify it.
Like, if the NCR had fallen due to mounting problems with their government, the defeat in the Mojave campaign being the last straw, leading to a civil war and a warlord period, ultimately ending in what we see in the show... that would have been fine! Heck, even just _acknowledging_ that there are other cities, even entire states, within the NCR, and telling the audience at least _something_ about what happened to Vault City, New Reno, The Hub, Arroyo, Adytum, Junktown, etc (or at least some of them), would've been okay! But instead, the show acts as if Shady Sands and the NCR are the same thing, and destroying the former automatically results in the complete destruction of the latter. Because a wasteland aesthetic is more important than the politics of the post-war civilization, I guess.
I don’t know why they had the show take place in California and not visit any major settlements from the games in California. Only one is Shady Sands and that gets plopped into LA then nuked. Had this show been anywhere else it wouldn’t feel off in terms of lack of any actual NCR presence / remnants, vaults sticking out of the ground where The Master probably would have seen them early, and having to fly the Eastern BoS across the country to have them blow out the NCR. I hope Season 2 isn’t a repeat of destroying any steps towards actual post-post apocalyptic development.
@@w.a.o.a.w I mean at this point, it's just a statement from Bethesda, they're going to pave over the old games to ensure it fits the trajectory they want from the Franchise as a whole. Fallout at this point should be a post-post apocalyptic story, but it seems as though they can't let it change. And with the West Coast being more Post-Post Apocalyptic due to the older games and NV, and 3 and 4 still being mostly stagnant on a society front, now they can use the T.V. show as a blanket over the West, probably if they have plans to use it for 5.
@@Naruku2121 It makes me wonder what they’re going to do with the West coast since Howard apparently shot down ideas from Nolan because they might get used. I would have been somewhat worried what they’d do with it but that is long gone now, the reasons why I liked the older titles are not relevant anymore. Whatever Fallout 5 will be is most likely what you said, to fit their vision of what they think Fallout is which is most highlighted in F4 & 76.
But like, have you considered that like that the ncr blowing up 200 years after the bombs is like really poetic and meaningful and it like means something. I'll say it again, like 200 years, man. That's like a number or something man, like just a good meaningful number.
I guarantee you that that was the logic in the writing room. Bethesda has an obsession with surface level deep. They did it with 3 too. They sat around going "200 years? Oh my, that's so smart, yknow like oh man, that's good, that's smart." That's why nothing makes any sense in 3. Similar issue in 4. You know, for a fact, they were so impressed with themselves for just having the idea to do a man out of time and a "Bladerunner." Why have good writing when you can have, "that sounds, sooo deeep, we gotta do that, bro."
I love Fallout 4
The only thing that im upset about is that Todd Howard went back on his word on leaving the West Coast and its lore alone.
Doubt anyone asked him
@@nekocekoBiHMK He’s ultimately the person that gives the green light after reading the script/setting
Finally some sense. People need to accept that writers make mistakes. Some Fallout fans seem to think that Nolan and Co should be immune to criticism.
Is it the end of the world? No. And does this one mistake make the show bad? No. But, for me, this combined with many of the new stories created from the show reek of laziness. I just cannot understand why Fallout fans are so desperate to bury any reasonable criticism. Good video, thanks!
Bethesda fan keep whining about FL:NV fan and classic FV fan nitpicking, critizing everything Bethesda made, yet it their positive reaction to every piece of slop that Todd feed them is why we can't have good thing anymore
If the nuke in shady sands happend in 2277. Then WHY ARENT NCR SOLDIERS TALKING ABOUT IT IN FNV!
I appreciate these videos so much, finally a critical video of the show which makes sense and isn't culture war mumblings
yeah I fuckin hate when a reviewer has a steaming pile of shit, correctly calls it a steaming pile of shit, but says the problems are wokeness and some racist shit like...bro you are destroying the validity of your word by being insane instead of pointing out the actual flaws of the show. This way defenders of the criticized object can point at this review and say "look, everyone that criticizes this thing is crazy! this proves the show is good!"
@@maestrofeli4259 Exactly, well put!
@@neopangean6218 yeah, someone said that this show was bad because they had interracial marriage💀😭😭why couldn't he point out some actual problem like the shitty characters or the terrible action scenes😭😭😭
@@maestrofeli4259 jeez, I saw something similar on another video, its such a brain dead take
Sheeeeit fr fr no cap 🙈
Theres a lot of cope coming from people trying to justify the lore breaking moments of the show, however, it's pretty obvious that the show writters were doing their own thing, but instead of letting it be a spinoff, Todd idiotically declared the show to be cannon with the games.
You can't stop cooking with these videos
I am loving these and hope to see more from you doing Fallout!
Subbed from your previous fallout video
Only Bethesda fans complain about New Vegas fans, and I don't really know why.
Mostly it’s a knee jerk reaction to being told that something you like is trash I’ve been ranted at for an hour before because I told a Steven universe fan that after watching it I didn’t like it, and it usually gives the same vibe as that. This is also coming from a fallout 4 fan too if that helps.
Tbqh, some of the FNV fans are a bit deranged and unhinged. But now every criticism of the moderns state of the franchise is dismissed, because ha-ha, your just angery about New Vegas, ha-ha, fallout 76 is good now, CHUD!
@@yaldabraxasperhaps “some” of the FNV fanbase may be irrational non-critical toxic critics. Although there’s no denying, on a rational and clearly artistic bias the TV show has is quite apparent when you truly look behind the scenes and overall symbolism. One of the show runner Graham Wagner, he alongside Geneva in a confirmed interview with Todd Howard the conman himself said so that those 2, came up to him in saying they want to nuke shady sands for no reason whatsoever. The fact Todd sweet little lies Howard, had no fucking backbone telling those 2 hacks to NOT nuke shady sands without any actual consideration. Tells you everything you need to know. Is baffling we have people like Graham Wagner in handling to ‘adapt’ fallout on a tv show format, let alone matters of artistic narrative direction is painfully insulting. Again Graham Wagner in one of his interviews or just watch Maulers video goes like this “Remember this, Remember that uh no story.” It’s clear it’s a direct reference of Easter eggs, pun intended in how over inflated the Tv show has of said game references speaks for itself. Rather any original thought put into it, or better yet explore a new region be it Texas or Seattle city and none of this mess wouldn’t exist. Naturally that requires actual talent, and understanding how to make original yet intricate content of factions , world building , atmosphere and social climate in a Nuclear Post-Apocalyptic setting like fallout of various different regions.
@@yaldabraxasyeah new vegas fans are a bit brash, idk what the big deal if some people like fallout 3 or 4. 3 is still my favorite game but I cant say that anywhere without someone calling me a dogmatic bethesda rider
New Vegas fans are mindlessly elitist about New Vegas. The fandom is a giant circlejerk that dehumanizes everyone who shows the slightest liking towards Fallout 3 and 4.
Source: me, a New Vegas fan.
Man, you are so unfathomably based. So glad I stumbled upon your channel.
Another point: In the Fallout TV show, a billboard on the way to Shady Sands says “First Capital of the NCR.” Either the NCR moved capitals before it was nuked, or they made a new one after Shady Sands was nuked. Either way, they both give more credibility to the NCR surviving. They may be hiding in their northern territories.
Except that Todd himself said it was nuked right after New Vegas and during New Vegas, people are still calling Shady Sands the capital of the NCR.
Did they suddenly decide to change capitals a couple of months after NV just so they could switch out the signage before Hank nuked them? 😂😂 I honestly take it as a mistake on the show writer's end in thinking the name change from Shady Sands to the NCR in Fallout 2 was them changing capitals.
And that’s taking Todd’s word as gospel when it contradicts Lucy saying her mother died during the Great Plague of ‘77 and it being a cover for Hank to leave the vault to his children before nuking Shady Sands. Or disregarding the scene where they show a library slip that shows the last date due was in 2276.
@@Lobsterwithinternet Fair enough, I just wanted to give people a bit more information. I was just saying what I saw in the show. They could've also move capitals years after New Vegas after the nuking.
@@Idunnodudegood, but this only makes the series dumber and more illogical, the series says in such a way that the NKR has been destroyed, angelized, etc.
i think the only reason bethesda keeps the brotherhood is because they see the brotherhood as synonymous with power armor (brand wise) they for some reason think that if no brotherhood, then no armor idk why they think this but they do
Test vaults were implicitly created as a result of the Enclave, I am in NO WAY defending the writing of this show, but the very purpose of Vault-Tec creating the vaults, was so that the Enclave could build a Spaceship, using all of the results from the test vaults placed by Vault Tec. The Enclave predated the Vault Tec vaults being built, because they were a “shadow government” faction.
pretty sure the whole enclave space ship thing is not canon. tim cain mentioning it as the intention of the vaults doesnt mean its canon. it has to actually be supported in a game
@@anathame3649 yeah its from the fallout bible, which while it has been used in every game to get ideas from any thing in there is not canon but can give insight to the possible canon.
the enclave being a larger presence outside of an oil rig and some other places is my headcanon too tbh, i just cannot fathom that a powerful elite organization that predates the war and which more or less knew that the bombs were gonna fall eventually wouldn't be more prepared
maybe they just don't or are unable to cooperate? like maybe they had a comms blackout, or maybe it's similar to how federal law enforcement in america tends to not coordinate their efforts well and end up stepping on each other's feet, idk... i think there's potential there with the latter, like enclave cells who have different ideologies and etc
Even if it just from FO2 without the consideration of outside source, the Enclave build those vault to study the reaction of people in isolation situation so that they can use it to build a better America after eradicating everthing with the FEV
Also the Encalve still there in FO3 and the show it crazy, shitting writer retconing shit cause they like the armor
They dont give a flying fuck about the fallout lore, they cant even stick to their own lore. How am i supposed to care about their lore if they dont?
i feel like the entirety of the new age fallout community will drop dead before season two comes out from an overdose due to the gallons of copium flowing through their veins over this shitty show
aT lEasT itS bEttEr tHan joHn hAlo 2!
@Ronin.97 dude the amount of videos with the title "why fallout works and halo doesnt" is fucking insanity i couldnt believe my eyes. its like comparing a pile of shit to a puddle of vomit and saying one is better than the other 😂
@@chuck_muckle It's even worse in the FB groups lol just Slop vs Super Slop cope.
@@Ronin.97 fallout Is a lot worse Because is Canon. Master cheek For Space hula hoop Isn't Canon Thanks to Prophets form this Mercy.
@@dark_drakon6814 Very good point there. Now I'm even more mad GRRRR.
Yo no way a fellow France hater. Instant sub!
Great video, you're not toxic about anything, not even slandering the writers or bethesda you're just stating the facts. Everyone makes mistakes, and in lore there have been alot of mistakes, or things being retconned for convenience going back as early as fallout 2. Admittedly the one made in the show is a very large mistake to make, don't know if its possible but maybe season 2 will fix what seem to be inconsistencies, or perhaps they can change the footage of the first season to actually fit into lore (remove whitebord scene & change all audio mentioning the date of the fall), don't know if things like that happen much with shows, but seeing that it's only on prime it wouldn't seem too hard to do.
hopefully video's like this will improve the tv show for the next season, I personally liked the show but can acknowledge some of its issues and hope that it does improve for the better.
The Yapinese are taking over
WOOOO MORE FALLOUT COMMENTARY LETS GOOOOO
I fucking love these tourists crying about you not liking thing they like. golden.
So... both Bethesda and Obsidian fans?
@@4zy1 Every Fanbase has its rotten eggs. It's easier for them to poison the well than to engage actual arguments.
Patroling the mojave makes you wish for a winter of shady sand i mean fall
great video
Nah i still consider new vegas cannon
That’s cause it is this guy is just virgin
@@talosseptim592 by this guy you mean who?
@@lagpostg.r.y9955 all the people crying saying Bethesda made new Vegas not cannon when they clearly stated it is and it’s almost like it’s season 1 of a much grander story and we need to be patient and let writers you know finish the story before we just. Say Bethesda hates new Vegas and say the fall of shady sands happened in 2077 aka people like this guy
@@talosseptim592 k
@@lagpostg.r.y9955 that’s what I thought slink away little boy with your tail between your legs
Also about reusing factions in other games, in cases like the BoS, having them in every title and every state we play in makes the BoS less special and same goes for other factions, creatures and other concepts like FEV. It just takes away from them in the end
Thanks for the comments those were amazing
i generally agree with your sentiment, but i do have a problem in 11:10. while the enclave doesnt have hundreds of bunkers around the US, i dont think that eliminating both raven rock and control station enclave would destroy the enclave, the enclave should be spread out in the USA and not just concentrated in a few places. the enclave probably has other bunkers (smaller ones ofc, the rig and raven rock were very importanr) in texas, florida and other states, but in fallout we cant find out much from distant places due to obvious reasons.
also, the remnants in FNV not only are just a small part of the people in the rig but also could have retreated to raven rock years before but chose not to, saying there was no place to go is a lie since if they really wanted to rejoin the enclave they could have gone to DC 4 years before FNV. and if you go with the argument that it was too far away to get to DC, may i remind you that other remnants did the same journey, most notably autumn senior. adding to this, (not that bethesda considered this) the fallout wiki states that a vertibird can travle 175 miles (tho its probably closer to 350 miles), and traveling from las vegas (where there is a refuling facility) to DC would take 2081 miles, wich would heavily expand the number of enclave refuling stations and presumably facilities
finally, unrelated to my enclave rant, there are good arguments to why the NCR collapsed that were not used in the TV show for some godforsaken reason. for example, to quote thomas hildern, director of the OSI, when asked if the NCR has a food shortage "Our studies project an imbalance between production and consumption. Or, for a layman such as yourself - not enough food, too many mouths to feed. Mass starvation. In a decade or so". also, he talks about how little water the NCR has "Bad soil and rationed water. It's to be expected around here, but the rationing's off. Worst part is NCR won't admit it. Pretty hard to meet their crop quotas with twenty percent less water than we're supposed to be getting. Not that OSI cares about any of this."
Don't forget the Chicago Enclave while the game is listed as non Canon Emil Pagliarulo says the game is mostly canon in "broad strokes" including the midwestern brotherhood and the Chicago Enclave.
In fairness the water rationing and bad soil specifically refers to the Mojave sharecropping operation.
@@raggedy3759Not to mention that all of those things were future problems that the nuking of Shady Sands circumvents.
@@Lobsterwithinternet How exactly does that circumvent a water and food crisis?
@@raggedy3759 Because the characters that tell you about the problems tell you that the problems are years down the line. Chief Hanlon and the doctor.
But because Shady Sands was nuked right after New Vegas, that put a halt to the overuse as the show demonstrates that the NCR collapsed after the nuke. That and the deaths of 30,000 people kind of reduces the useage of both food and water.
I think the show was actually really solid when assessed seperately from the games. Probably one of my favorite shows evwr so far. I’m very disappointed that they messed up this bad with the ncr story, but I’m optimistic that they can fix it. The ncr isn’t just shady sands, I hope we’ll see more ncr , but I’d still probably thoroughly enjoy season two even if the story was messed up.
"Favorite show ever" Never thought I'd say this, but maybe watch some more TV lmao
@@raggedy3759 thanks, but thats not what I said. It’s definitely up there but not my „favorite show ever“
Don't worry.
I like bad TV and movies too.
I think they just have shitty writers that don't think about continuity and just retcon things even if it doesn't make any sense.
Muldaver described Rose finding a PARADISE, not a FALLEN EMPIRE or onr in decline..
It was 2077..
EVERYTHING in the shoe points at 77..
Todd Howards statement is outnumbered by hints in the show.
I tried turn brain off to watch it ..but the show is TERRIBLY written..
When I watched the second time (critically, but NOT canon related)..
Has so many contradictions on previous episodes ect .
Everything just far too convenient.
Often making no sense.
But then when you factor in lore as well...
Whoa they screwed a lot up.
I'm sick of the Bethesda fanboys, hell...ALL Fanboys ..
It's unhealthy to deliberately blind yourself to a person, company your own...faults.
To be this subservient to a company is just fkn weird.
In F3 the East Coast BOS chapter was established by some of the Brotherhood trying to establish a new base of operations as far away from the NCR as possible. And Autumn only wanted to restore the purifier to make the people of the Wasteland dependent on the Enclave (which is a better critique of the government than Bethesda managed since). Many other parts of the game fall short, but I would say at least those 2 are reasonable.
watching this on 1.25 speed is great b/c I got to hear "akin to China in the 1920s with warlords and local leaders constantly warring with each other over control over California and the power vacuum of the NCR's collapse" and that's an alternate history I wanna see
A better solution to this problem is retconing the show instead of new vegas
New vegas is way too good to be replaced by a show that seems underwelming
(!WARNING!) I haven't watched it yet, my view point is based of video essays
i hope they find a way to fix this mess in future seasons
The way is to make the show not canon
@@Coolcleverstone not going to happen
The only way to fix this show is to cancel it and make it non conanical.
Best to cancel it, but the consoomers loved it so that won't happen
There is no mess. Todd Howard stated that shady sand was nuked one year after new vegas
Perhaps it a good thing new vegas isnt canon as bethesda cant touch it anymore and we can all have our endings remain pure.
Great follow up video, those comments however have me interested in replaying fallout 76.
The BOS in 76 was fairly lacking imo. It constantly felt like it was gearing up for something grand, but it just ends before anything really happens.
And on a side note, no matter what you choose, nothing changes. Even the NPCs have the same dialogue despite it sometimes no longer making sense based on what you chose.
So. I’m on your side but the identity of the bomb in Megaton doesn’t actually matter…because it wasn’t dropped. It was in the plane Megaton was partially built from when it crashed. It could be a Chinese nuke, a vault tech nuke, or a U.S. Nuke. It doesn’t really matter because the identity of the plane it crashed in is unknown anyway. And again…because it wasn’t dropped. And in NewVegase’s case it’s the same model reused and if I’m not mistaken the side with the logo on it was intentionally pointed into the dirt probably because so many fans kept claiming it was the VT logo.
Actually, I also thought you were saying that the enclave didn't really have a goal in Fallout 3.
That is what you were saying, right?
Wondering what you’re thinking about Fallout 76 now if you’ve had time to play
Postin fuckin facts and bangers. Subscribed!
I pity that you feel that you need to play 76 just to have more of an authority on the lore
You got everything right
They're just trying to trick you into playing that god awful game
The comments in this video actually make me lose brain cells
I don't respect anyone who thinks fallout 4/76/show has good writing. OP needs bigger balls.
i wonder if it was a retcon or just an oversight
definetely just an oversight. The makers of the show didn't realize the importance of what they were doing nor did they care to make sure it fit in with the games.
Which would be fine if this show was simply a non canon spin-off, but because it is being treated as a new entry of the series, as if it were fallout 5, it is making some big annoying implications.
I agree with most of your arguments in this video, but I partially disagree with your stance on the enclave. The US government has dozens of irl bunkers and installations that they very likely would use in fallout. Raven Rock, Mount Weather, Cheyenne Mountain, Camp David, and the Greenbrier Congressional bunker (the irl whitesprings) just to name a few. I think the primary issue is that Bethesda just doesn’t understand the enclave, nor do they want it to adapt.
Also camp david, mt weather, and raven rock are fairly close to each other.
I must admit that you overestimated my intelligence stat (;
Seriously though, I wasn't sure if you were just venting or if you were trying to give constructive criticism of the games.
So, uh... remember that not everyone picks up on subtext... I guess... or not... I don't really care much, either way.
Add some music my guy would literally 10x your content or ambient noise
Great vid👍
27:51 what a way to end bro haha
Caesar's legion is definitively not flashed out enough due to a bunch of cut content regarding their camps and more to explore how they society and citizens under their protection would work. Its funny since the game obviously tends to lean towards the NCR a lot more as we see NCR farmers, different cities that has soldiers protecting and doing scouts, we even see their Quarry workers within Sloan and we can fully understand how they work as a faction besides only the more militaristic side
Caesar's have none of this luxury while caesar himself is STUPID because Obsidian felt for the common mistake of associating the Synthesis/Anti-Thesis model to Hegelian dialetics, but he was >>against that idea
I think Caesar misunderstanding Hegelian dialectics is supposed to be intentional, since iirc if you have Arcade as a companion when you visit The Fort, he points out how Caesar’s logic doesn’t make sense.
@@MG12313 no, its not
Hegels literally dont say anything about synthesis or anti-thesis
Its not a question of caesar misunderstanding Hegels, he never had read it in the first place.
This is an internet misconception, something that people spread but os just outright wrong, obsidian saw it and replicated it into Caesar
He couldnt have known about such misconception because theres no internet in the FO world, so he just kind of copy pasted a logic that couldnt exist in FO universe out of nowhere.
If the writers read Hegel, he'd say the master slave dialectic ends with the negation of the negation. Also it would make more sense for Caesar to quote Philosophy of Right rather than inforgraphics. Hegel did change his system based on criticsm from Ficte though.
It still works because Ceaser is actually established as a brainlet.
The legionnaires dress like Hollywood Romans, not the actual Greco Romans who'd honestly would dress pretty similar to Muslims, infact muslims got Hijab from Byzantines
You're missing the fact that Ceasar learned philosophy 200 years after the bomb drop. He probably didn't have access to the full bibliography of Hegelian studies. So give him some slack.
@@yaldabraxas its funny to clown on him
Great video!
I had assumed shady sands blew up a few years after FNV, and that Hank was also helping House fight the NCR
Don't respond to negative commentors. They aren't worth the time, and it just sounds bad. Shit posters are just part of the UA-cam landscape you have to navigate and ignore.
27:51 wtf XDDD
I can understand, why some want to ignore FO 76 in this discussion. Given it's an MMO and a Prequel being made long after the fact. But then again, this is pretty much Bethesda and Emil's MO in a nutshell, so...
fallout is an FPS 💀
This was clarified by Todd Howard several weeks ago in an interview when he stated shady sands was nuke 1 year after New Vegas.
Great. Maybe they should've put that in the actual TV series instead of relying on Todd's comments in some interview?
i guess that's the ultimate retcon, nothing we can do now
1. Since when Todd is accurate source of information?
2. Why isn't that in the show?
How many lies have God Howard told to us over the -course of the- years? Not a single one, obviously!
@@chryon315 There is. Ignore it. There hasnt been a good Fallout game made by Bethesda so what are you missing out on? Fallout 5 thats even worse then Starfield?
People do this for a living?? Ok I’ll indulge…
Btw this is a near 20 min video. I enjoyed the show while being an og fallout fan.
Thank you for publicly admitting your shit taste. Take your elipses back to reddit, clown
Fallout new vegas meatriders,
Meatriders everywhere.
Back under the bridge troll