Kirby Lore Just Got More Confusing
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- Опубліковано 2 сер 2024
- With the release of Kirby's Return to Dream Land Deluxe and Magolor's Epilogue, Kirby's Lore just got more confusing. Let's find out why!
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Watch Part 1 of my Kirby Lore video here!
• The Aggravation of Kir...
===========================
TABLE OF CONTENTS:
0:00 - Introduction
1:18 - Press Start (Special Page)
5:12 - Game Modes (The Ghost of Miiverse)
8:07 - Magolor & His Epilogue
15:00 Super Kirby Clash
18:15 - External Sources
===========================
MUSIC:
Kirby Super Star Stacker - Dedede Intro
Kirby's Return to Dream Land Deluxe - Sky Tower
Kirby's Return to Dream Land Deluxe - Bring on the Super Ability
Kirby's Return to Dream Land Deluxe - Crash Mid-Boss
Kirby's Return to Dream Land Deluxe - Kabula Limit
Kirby's Return to Dream Land Deluxe - Booming Blasters
Kirby's Return to Dream Land Deluxe - Smash Ride
Kirby's Return to Dream Land Deluxe - Green Winds
Super Mario RPG - Fight Against a Somewhat Stronger Monster
Kirby's Return to Dream Land Deluxe - Hot Elemental Boss Battle
Kirby's Return to Dream Land Deluxe - Red Sands
Kirby's Return to Dream Land Deluxe - Onward to a Pain My Hearts Knows Well
Kirby's Return to Dream Land Deluxe - Another Domination (Vs. Crowned Doomer)
Kirby's Return to Dream Land Deluxe - Mistilteinn Tree Crown without a Ruler
Kirby's Return to Dream Land Deluxe - Epilogue Extra Stage 1
===========================
LINKS:
Kirby Informer Miiverse Archive: www.kirbyinformer.com/ktd-mii...
Kirby Miiverse Wiki Archive: kirby.fandom.com/wiki/Miiverse
The Many Dimensions of Kirby Panel: • The Many Dimensions of...
Nintendo Dream July 2017 Kumazaki Interview Citation: wikirby.com/wiki/Magolor#cite...
Nintendo Dream May 2023 Translated Interview: gigi9714.wordpress.com/2023/0...
Ask the Developer Vol. 4, Kirby and the Forgotten Land Part 4: www.nintendo.com/whatsnew/ask...
Polygon - ‘What happens if Kirby swallows a hot man?’ His directors give answers: www.polygon.com/23652624/kirb...
===========================
EXTRA GAMEPLAY FOOTAGE CREDITS:
RetroArchive
Zephiel810
Saber
MrDrSkittle
UHD Longplays
BossBattleChannel
ThumbsUpMaster
GDC
U.D Playthroughs
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#Kirby #Lore #KirbyLore
kirby super star, Kirby's Star Stacker, Kirby 64 the crystal shards, kirby tilt 'n'tumble, kirby nightmare in dream land, kirby air ride, kirby and the amazing mirror, kirby canvas curse, kirby squeak squad, kirby super star ultra, kirby's epic yarn, kirby mass attack, kirby's return to dream land, kirby's dream collection, kirby triple deluxe, kirby's fighter deluxe, dedede's drum dash deluxe, kirby and the rainbow curse, kirby planet robobot, kirby star allies, super kirby clash, kirby fighters 2, kirby and the forgotten land kirby's dream buffet, kirby's return to dreamland deluxe - Ігри
Great video overall. I totally agree Kirby lore is a mess. One major critique is that you implied that Magolor wearing his Clash outfit at the end of Epilogue’s credits is the only evidence Clash is canon, when the photos that appear slightly before that clearly show Magolor arriving in the Dream Kingdom after beating the Master Crown.
Right, I did forget about those photos.
6:15 I think that it is important to note here that when Kumazaki mentions Kirby being "deep", he probably means that the gameplay is deep, *NOT* the story. This is further proof that gameplay (level design, copy abilities, bosses, gimmicks etc) is prioritized over some sort of overarching "deep lore". We should appreciate the passion and fanservice in the Kirby series as just that, instead of pretending that it is some sort of trail towards the "deep connected LORE".
anyways, here's my definitely serious fanmade pause screen for Heavy Lobster:
"It's Heavy Lobster, a *heavy* mechanical lobster!
Did you know that it is actually a machine?
Watch out for its *claws* - they hurt!"
Another thing that the "loud Kirby fans" have to understand is that "referencing the bible" =/= "the story is based on biblical values and the story of the bible" - people use imagery from old religious texts like they do with old stories and legends: because it sounds cool!
I don't blame with your frustrations with the lore, but on your point relating to Clash, there was the pictures shown during the credits plus the OST of the final boss weaving a ton of Clash leitmotifs. It's obscure, but it is evidence that there is more than just the credits cutscene to point towards the fact the Clash games are now canon.
Im going to try my best to be respectful here, but as a massive kirby fan, and a "relatively not quiet kirby fan", its gonna be a bit difficult, but i actually wanna start discussion here, so keep that in mind.
First of all, let me state some things i agree with. Yes, some kirby fans overblow the franchise, and state complete garbage fpr shock value.
The kirby lore isnt as deep or crazy as some fans would lead you to believe.
HAL's storytelling isnt ideal, and problems arise from it.
There are some points i agree with, however you are kinda just being mean about it.
"They aren't open to discussion" meanwhile you just complain about these fans and hal and kirby and call them dumb and overdramatic.
Lets *actually* open to discussion here.
Yes, the lore isn't as deep as some fans claim, but there is depth and consistent through lines to be found.
Lets take the ancients for example, yes, its a mess of information that is held together with string and headcanons, however, as more games release, we get slightly more info on them, piece by piece, and can build a larger understanding on them. And i would like you to find another mainline Nintendo franchise that has existed for as long as kirby has that does that.
about magolor. Yes, the loud kirby fans are overdramatic about it, however, i think it would please you to know that in the main body of the kirby fandom, we recognize that these loud fans are just obnoxious and a problem. Its just that these loud fans get more attention, because, well, thats what they are looking for.
I completely understand being frustrated with the looseness in kirby lore, the inconsistency, the problem in the storytelling structure, and the loud fans. I get that. However, this video and the other just feel like complaining rather than opening for discussion.
I would like to explain why i fell in love with kirby and its lore. These points might not apply to you, and thats okay.
Kirby lore for me was always a peek into the greater universe of kirby. The story of kirby games feel like they were built upon an existing universe. And the lore is a peek into that universe. Imagining the ancients, how they were able to colonize so many corners of the kirby universe, seeing their influence leak into the games and their stories, always filled me with awe.
The loud kirby fans i feel like have this same sentiment, but want attention, and feel like kirby lore is overlooked, and want attention drawn to it, because, to an extent, it *is* overlooked.
If you are frustrated by these fans, than, just, dont interact with them. You dont have to force yourself to dive deep into kirby lore if you dont like it. And personally, thats where i feel like it shines the strongest. You dont have to interact with it if you dont want to. Its out of the way, if you want to look for it, you have to look in pause screens, check outside sources sometimes, and to be honest, even though kirby lore is held together by strings and headcanons, finding actual fibers, actual canonical links between aspects is extremely fun.
Overall, i get your beef with the loud kirby fans, but i just feel like you aren't dealing with them properly. Making these videos just complaining about them isn't fun for you or me or them. Im sure these videos just attract more of these loud kirby fans, and i am positive that they aren't gonna take this video seriously or sincerely because *you* aren't.
I get that "loud kirby fans" are obnoxious, but that doesn't mean that you have to become a "loud anti-kirby fan"
I completly agree!
I for example found the christianity themes in magolor epilouge to be (probably) limited to the fruit of sin... maybe
And i also really love kirbys gameplay
Yet the lore is the perfect strawberry on top of the strawberry shortcake!
A lot of the stuff you mentioned people saying, is stuff I never heard before. My take on "Kirby Lore" is simply that there is more happening with the world of Kirby than what is presented at face value, and piecing together similar concepts are a part of the enjoyment of the series. Whether or not any one idea is the absolute intended interpretation is yet to be seen. The only way that would be the case is if the team writing the current and future Kirby games, do what the Zelda franchise did and release an official timeline after a long period of fan speculations.
I won't lie though. I'm still waiting on that one Kirby game where the creators decide to take a page from the fans, and pull everything together. Would be awesome to see, even though that's wishful thinking...but with that said, someone in the Kirby development team DOES like creating obscure ties between Kirby games, so the desire to create coherent lore is there.
Anyways, I'm going to go watch some of TerminalMontage's Kirby related videos, since Kirby is os a Christian in those lol
(PS...no one actually believed Magalor was actually from Halcandria, and alrernate realities DO exist where counterparts to the main characters live their own existense. Case in point, the mirror world, where there is mirror versions of every dreamland inhabitant. Basically Magalor moved to one of those...but I'm not really that big of a fan of multiverse plots, since at that point it means the sky os the limit with iterat-...sorry, I didn't mean to start writing out my counter arguments lol)
*Kirby lore is the equivalent of Kingdom Heart's lore. "Idc about the lore no more"* in a nutshell franchise! Kirby's dumbfound undefeated power or strength doesn't make too much sense! You know what they say: *If you can't beat em, join em!* Being friends with Kirby can't be hard, right?!🤣
Beef with the Kirby community is my favourite UA-cam genre!
Mine too! It's so hypeeeeee!
Can anyone blame Kumazaki for wanting to talk about gameplay in interviews instead? Shit's fun. Magolor Epilogue's combat and combo system rule, love me some exponential score gain.
It's clear he puts more work into making fun gameplay than trying to tell a story for everyone to read. Though really, if he wants to do the latter anyway, he better commit, because jeez man, it's been like 15 years, step up your storytelling game already.
The Christian symbolism is definitely there, but I think Twitter needs to realize Japan doesn't take Christianity as seriously as the west does and mostly uses it for Cool Factor more often than not.
For that reason alone I can totally buy that Magolor is indeed intended to be both Judas and Jesus simultaneously at the very least. ;p
I'm so glad someone made this video.
I do unapologetically love Kirby Lore, just being something comedically absurd that I grew up with... BUT IT IS BAD WRITING. Half the stories from most of the games are left either completely ambiguous, unfinished, or entirely disconnected from established parts of prior stories.
It's fun to call Kirby a "God Killer" for the amusement, but as soon as people start taking it seriously it just gets cringe.
I would like to know what you would say about FNAF? Since that is based even more on theories.
I've only really played the first game once and that's about it. I have zero interest or investment for FNAF.
BOTH kirbys lore and gameplay are great!
The lore and story enhances the gameplay and the gameplay is really good and the lore doesnt get into the way of the gameplay! If i play with a non story player i jist screenshot the special page done!
Kirby lore be wild there’s death,depression,godlike creature’s,god himself,corrupt religion,more death,and much much more
Speaking of Kirby Headcanon i thought wheb magalor "Betray ya at the end of the story" i thought it wasn't him and it was magalor had a brother that was named the same
That Headcanon now a days will 100% make a lot of kirby fans really mad
Yeah Kirby "Lore" sure is fun, but man can it be incredibly inaccessible at times (such as thru interviews). I know this worldbuilding stuff is meant to be out of the way, but if said information starts sounding like it's a major part of a character's story... Wouldn't it have been better to convey this information in a more accessible way, like a game?
(And not a limited timed anniversary emulation collection or some offhand comment?)
Anyways, regarding the "two way street" statement... Ok so I don't mind the "Susie is robot" thing because I mean look at her. However, the other examples listed have fans frustrated not for the sake of lore but because they're heavy mischaracterizations. Think back to the "Mario is Mental" nonsense, where people who both take a character at surface level and only focus on their negatives perceive them as "bad" or "evil".
But again in their defense, Dedede's immediate redemption goes basically unnoticed for a majority of the games (even when he is "nice", one could think more of it as a temporary truce than friendship), and due to how the anime portrays the guy...
Honestly maybe everyone should chill a little when it comes to how much someone knows of a series...
(However it is understandable to be upset when someone mischaracterizes or completely misses the point of something you enjoy greatly)
I don’t agree but I’m not going to whine about it. I have no other defenses for myself other than I like Kirby. And this was a good vid and I saw your points. Now I’m going to go enjoy the funny pink blob game
The only part I didn’t like probably out of a bias is the Kirby clash rant. Maybe I just don’t care enough about the writing of a Kirby game though.
Also peoples. Calm down. Dont let yourselves get worked up over a Kirby game of all things. We are all here to have fun. Enjoy the pink
Who needs logic? I only freak out butterflies when they're red and orange. We all know why. o-o
Why is it inherently worse to include lore in pause screens instead of in cutscenes? A lot of people would like to have optional lore, while also having uninterrupted gameplay like in classic videogaming where all the story was in the manual. Modern Kirby and the Souls games deliver on both with their pause screen/item description decision.
Before watching this video, I noticed "loud Kirby fans" and that they can be a little cringe and overreach. But this video managed to make me think that anti-loud-Kirby-fans are a worse threat than loud-Kirby-fans.
It's pretty simple. People go into Kirby expecting zero lore. What they get isn't the most cohesive conceivable lore possible, but it is much more cohesive than, say, _Zelda._ People are charmed by that, and putting the story together is a puzzle, _but it being a puzzle that you can get wrong is what makes it fun to them._ I don't see what's so reprehensible about that.
Pause screen lore is easily miss-able because it's not common practice to be placed there. Notice how you've only mentioned Modern Kirby and the Soul series. They're outliers. That alone makes it inherently worse.
@@MaskedMetaKnight4 How is them being outliers makes it inherently worse?
This may blow your mind, but, unlike you apparently, most people don't randomly pause a video game every few seconds for no reason. A new player would have no way of knowing that pausing during a boss fight shows story information that may not be mentioned anywhere else. And, again, unlike you, who apparently habitually spams the pause button in every video game you play, ... most people don't do that. The chances that a new player would just so happen to pause while at the very first boss are astronomically low. They may have gotten pretty far into the game by the time they discover it, and not feel like starting the fuck over again, or finishing it knowing they haven't fully experienced the story. It honestly blows my mind that this needs to be explained... If this were to happen to me I know for a fact I would be insanely annoyed and just stop playing altogether, and wait a few years before starting over again.
@@MaskedMetaKnight4i mean ive seen them try to nudge people to pause via a news article ob the switch!
Also they moved that stuff to the figurines for fl!
Also it seems that after robobot they stopped with having really important details in interviews!
College is killing me right now, but I wanted to say, seeing someone with an I-Ninja profile pic (22:22) makes me frown, loved that game, so it feels weird having someone who takes Kirby lore too seriously speak with it. Thinking beyond whether the canonicity matters or not, I don't think these so-called "Loud Kirby Fans" even realize how dangerous the aspect of a multiverse can be to any franchise not prepared for it (See: Mortal Kombat, Bioshock, Chrono Cross, and some other infamous examples that try to make every single thing canon, therefore making nothing hold the actual weight of being canon), potentially making every existing plotpoint and character both meaningless and lacking in identity; the final nail in this prolonged coffin, one they might still embrace for the fake depth it usually happens to provide. On better news, I'm "cooking" something that I might share with others such as you, might not, depending on how well my first tests of it go. Hopefully it does go well, because I put countless hours into it! :)
Multiverse angles are usually a mess. Especially when the current universe hasn't been explored properly. Also looking forward to it whenever you do finish!
chaotic neutral worldbuilding
("Fine, if you're so smart, solve the lore yourself")
I would kindly ask for you to read my other comment first, please? This one builds off the other one.
I know i already commented on this video, but i would also like to add, i understand that kirby lore is wierd and convoluted, but this video is actually filled with misinformation. And, i get it, kirby lore is wierd and convoluted, and im not actually that upset, but you present this information with such confidence that i have to point out that its just flat out wrong.
I get that youre frustrated with the convoluted state of kirby fans and lore, but come oooooooooooooon, ive been respectful so far, but some of your points are just nitpicks
Edit: one final thing. This video, and the other, felt like they were made to piss off kirby fans. And, as a kirby fan, a really big kirby fan, like, a kidby hyperobsesser, let me tell you, it worked. This video and the other made me extremely angry. But, is that what you want? You say that you want to open up for discussion, but you just make rage bait. Stop it.
If you wanna civily discuss it, then be civil
If the video is filled with misinformation, then say what it is.
@@MaskedMetaKnight4im not normally a nitpicky type of guy, but since you asked for it, i will gladly accept
@@MaskedMetaKnight413:30 “how is magolor supposed to represent eve, judas, jesus, and the serpent all at the same time?”
The sources you provided literally did not claim that magolor was supposed to represent jesus or the serpent, yet you complained that they did.
16:18 “super kirby clash isnt canon to begin with”
The source you provided “backing up” this claim literally did not prove your point. In fact, the article you provided could and has been used to prove, or suggest, that super kirby clash *is* canon.
And aside from straight up wrong information, you also just forget to include stuff, vital information, just to make your claims about the kirby fandom and lore being absurd, Like
9:47
You forgot to include the fact that the forgotten land takes place in a very obviously human built world, with skyscrapers and buildings that are painfully obviously human built,
11:41
You also forgot to include the pictures literally just before this that show magolor going through a portal, ending up in the dream kingdom, and setting up his shop
i couldn't be bothered to excruciatingly nitpick this video for more flaws, so if this isnt enough, sorry. But i would like to say again, if you have issues with the loud kirby fans, thats fine, i cant force you to agree with anything, however, i would ask **YOU** to rewatch your own video, and then truthfully tell me that you were trying your hardest to be the bigger man, instead of just adding to the animosity.
And i would like to ask, Is that all you have to say? Because to me, and i could be wrong, it looks like you're just deflecting. I would legitimately like to hear your thoughts on the points i presented in my other comments, i legitimately want to start discussion, and i cant do that if you just deflect everything.
Okay. I get that you are frustrated. Ive said that what, 14 times? But if you just deflect actual discussion, and not open up to it, *you become part of the problem*
I recognize and agree that there is a problem with the kirby fandom. But if you dont want to civily discuss it, you aren't going to be better then them.
I am truly sorry if i sound a bit harsh or mean, because this series means a lot to me. I would consider myself a huge kirby fan, but i want to actually open up and hear what you have to say, without the mocking or antagonizing
13:30 - Even before that timestamp, I showcased other social media screenshots. That segment wasn't aimed at one specific person. It's to show the viewers that fans want to throw out references so nonchalantly. They're not all consistent which goes about the main theme of this video "Kirby lore getting more confusing". At 12:36, "died, and then absolved himself of his sins to rise again" is a reference to Jesus. The serpent in the garden of Eden was the form Satan took in Genesis. I said serpent because it's the most tame way to reference Satan because that was his appearance in the Garden of Eden. Fans will associate Magolor to the devil as well because of the "horns" on his head and him tricking Kirby. I did not include that explicitly in the video but the people making those comparisons are in fact real and I do have proof it you REALLY want me to air out more people.
16:18 - Super Kirby Clash needs to try much harder to prove that it is canon rather than it it's not canon. You said the article I provided doesn't prove my point, yet it says events takes place in another world in a parallel universe explicitly. Not only that, you would have to argue about Mr Non-Canon aka Galacta Knight and all of the other Kirby characters who show up in the hub and their canonical reasons for being there if it took a whole epilogue for Magolor to get to the Dream Kingdom. There's more red flags than green.
9:47 - I don't talk too much about the ancients in this video because I dedicated a whole section to it in the last one. You say skyscrapers and buildings are painfully obvious made by humans, but that's the problem with HAL's storytelling, they never confirmed the ancients were humans. If it's so obvious, then why not confirm it? It's the fandom who runs around with that idea. Even before RTDLDX, fans would say Magolor is an ancient. Would that mean he's a human? Doesn't look like one. Wait, Adeleine does? Is she an ancient? Oh right, we know next to nothing about her either.
11:41 - Ya, I forgot about that image. Someone else mentioned it to me in the comments already. I apologize for excluding that. Later in the video with the article, it's said that Magolor did go to the Dream Kingdom so I won't lose sleep over it because there's at least proof in the video that Magolor went to that world. Something that's been known since 2017 if you knew about this interview.
My goal here isn't to be a "bigger man". I'm pointing out HAL Laboratory's storytelling flaws. Those flaws get amplified by the "Loud Kirby Fans" who end up throwing stones from their glass house. I'm returning the stones to the sender with counterarguments and their flaws. If I match the same energy they do, when they dog pile casual fans, the only thing left is proper discussion. From there, it's obvious that Kirby lore/storytelling doesn't have much thought or clarity put into it when you remove the head canons to fill in the cracks.
I don't know why you're already saying I'm deflecting when you haven't given me the chance to respond to you. Unless you mean I'm deflecting other Kirby fans, then if so please tell me where. I don't mind diving into the trenches of twitter to talk about Kirby. I've been actively doing it for the past year.
@@abcdefgee Also you said you're not that upset then later on edit and say that you're pissed. Point out that I'm nitpicking, then you say yourself that you're going to nitpick my points when I asked where's the misinformation is.
This guy is a hater. Kirby lore is one of the best parts of the series
I'm agreeing, this guy just wants to ruin the cuteness of Kirby and its lore. Let's not forget, WE TRUSTED HIM UNTIL THESE LET'S TALKS!
@@tjclews Well that sounds oddly parasocial.