Schizoid Personality Disorder - Deep Dive (Chapter 1)
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- Опубліковано 27 чер 2024
- Dr Kirk Honda provides his deep dive on schizoid personality disorder.
00:00 Common schizoid presentation
16:54 Themes & deep dive roadmap
25:21 Schizoid representation on TikTok
29:06 Rumored cases of celebrity schizoid
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November 27, 2023
The Psychology In Seattle Podcast ®
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Can you also expand on how schizoid personality presents in women? And how does schizoid differ from Asperger’s, especially since some of the characteristics associated with Asperger’s overlap with pedantic and monotone delivery?
Asperger’s also includes fixations on interests that can overlap with hyperfocus, like with ADHD. But for women with Asperger’s, some of their interests may include fixations on relationships (like fandoms, soap operas, or fictional characters), or non-relational interests like you had mentioned. Women are also taught to value and nurture social relationships to a greater degree than men, and some women with Asperger’s report “masking”, or forcing themselves to assimilate to more typical or socially-oriented interests to fit in or else other women (and men) may socially ostracize or punish them. However, as you had stated, the male characterization of schizoid is someone who outwardly expresses disinterest in relationships. So do schizoid women also present aggression and disinterest with relationships in the same way as males? Or do schizoid women present differently; do they also engage in masking behaviors as a defense mechanism [to hide their actual disinterest in relationships]?
The TikTok examples of schizoid celebrities seem to mainly comprise of physicists, writers, artists, and scientists. But how much of the schizo personality type is actually attributed to the isolating nature of professions that require dedicating large chunks of time to a single activity?
(Also, some academic research is collaborative. Einstein worked with other physicists and frequently corresponded with other scientists. And Stephen Hawking’s disability increasingly restricted his mobility, which may have attributed to his own social struggles).
Very interesting questions idd
I think that many women who are diagnosed with a disorder that presents apathy or anhedonia, mask in most social situations. In my experience as a women (that is really suspecting I have SPD), I act 'normal' around people because it feels like something i have to do in order to get through life that unfortunately requires social interaction. I show affection towards my family and friends but it's because i know it's what they want and expect. I don't have much interest in relationships which is why i haven't dated. But deep down i feel guilty for not being able to really care for others around me. I feel guilty that most of my affection is fake. There's probably a connection to the underlying/constant guilt and growing up with the expectations pushed onto women.
As for interests, i've had interests in fictional people that i have never had towards a real person. I really love animals, to the extent that the love i feel for my cat is one of the most intense emotions I've felt. I believe that people with apathy disorders tend to lean towards fictional characters and animals instead of people, due to the unpredictability and possible threats other humans pose. With animals and fictional characters, they are predictable and safe. You don't feel vulnerable around them, free to express emotions without judgement, and therefore no threats. It's a safe space of sorts.
I have SzPD and am a woman. Dr. Kirk would answer your specific questions better as schizoid personality has so many different presentations and lacks research, but I wanted to offer to answer any questions in case you're interested in ancedotal experiences -- speaking to someone who was diagnosed at a young age (19) and has been in weekly therapy for 15+ years for SzPD. I think my perspective is somewhat unique as many schizoids don't seek out or attend therapy. I was only graced with it due to a comorbid PTSD diagnosis.
Btw, you ask interesting questions.
@@lyla112_as someone diagnosed, I think your explanation makes sense and sounds similar to mine! The only difference is I don't feel any guilt for my inner personality style and never have, but I guess I never knew (until diagnosed) that most people didn't have the same experience thus had no reason to feel that way. Why do you think you feel that way? That's interesting. I view my style as just an alternative way of relating, although I'm realistic about the way it limits me attachment-wise and seek therapy to further my abilities. But not much emotion around it.
I just want to say that being affectionate even when you don't feel like it for social reasons is somewhat normal (not to the level you describe, but that's okay too) and is actually a sign of social intelligence. So, I hope you don't feel too bad because you're just on one end of the spectrum there, you're still human!
@@nullusernamex thank you for the encouragement! The only constant feeling I experience is guilt. It's not intense, it just kind of passes through like a haze. This guilt and shame is of course connected to childhood lol. My father never gave my mother the affection she clearly deserved and wanted. And obviously she was very attached to her children, so when I grew to be not emotionally responsive she seemed to look at me differently and with concern. I feel bad for my mama as she just wants to be loved like she deserves. i think i thought i could fulfill the need my father actively avoided.
Now the guilt is just something that resides in me but i know it helped me to have capacity for empathy. I for sure think that the guilt has saved me from becoming an angry and unstable person like daddy, so in a sense i am very thankful for the guilt.
I've been thinking I may have a schizoid personality for these last 3 months.
I can pretend to be human around others but I feel like a robot wearing human skin. I can totally relate to not feeling human due to lack of emotion. Having constant apathy takes away a big part of being a human; there's nothing to look forward to, nothing to feel excited about and no one to be attached to. So you're just walking through life essentially dissociating. It feels 'bad' to not have 'good' feelings but the 'bad feeling' isn't strong enough to really bring notice let alone looking at your behavior as something needing change.
Every single thing you listed at the beginning is me lol!!
It sounded like you were describing “Average Redditor”, which is a character from the UA-cam channel, Slappable Jerk.
Very interesting. As an autistic, I identify with a lot of the characteristics in the fictional person, so I think I’m going to have to become a patron now 😅
Me too 😅 I’m neurodivergent, struggle with CPTSD, and naturally introverted so I’ve fallen in to a bit of a social slump since the pandemic. This diagnosis isn’t fitting for me, but it’s interesting to see a lot of similarities!
I’m curious about this as well. I have adhd and am currently undergoing neuropsych testing (at 38) to confirm/refute my old bipolar diagnosis, checking for autism and trauma conflicts.
My father sounds EXACTLY like the first case. My brother is autistic, my other brother was shizoaffective but he did fit the profile for schizoid personality very well. He would not have seen a Dr for it, the schizoaffective after a psychotic, which lead to some trouble with the law (indecent exposure and breaking and entering at his university) and treatment was the condition to avoid criminal charges.
My father absolutely would have NOT sought help. He wouldn’t seek help even for physical issues until he was half dead. He was never diagnosed, and absolutely never treated for ANY form of mental conditions. It’s a tossup between autism and schizoid. If it’s autism, then it runs in BOTH sides of my family (my mother’s uncle was autistic, and we have SEVERAL close cousins that are diagnosed with autism.
Spectrum people have intense hobbies and pursue interests.
Yess! So looking forward to this deep dive!
I can’t stand when people in a conversation don’t get what im getting at & I’m stuck remembering if I even told them about a part they’re missing 😂
I think your dp misrepresents you a little lol
I done a test 10 years ago that showed I had traits that indicated this disorder, I know that probably I'm somewhere in the spectrum but not problematic enough to be diagnosed... maybe 😅. Now I'm curious to see the deep dive.
Very well explained.
I connect with that boy a lot , the way you describe his thoughts is really similar to mine , i got diagnosed with GAD when i was 16 was on med for 2 years , and now wanting to go back and get talk therapy instead
Scoring 0 - 40% : Schizoid Personality Disorder is Unlikely
Scoring 41 - 100% : Schizoid Personality Disorder is Likely
Your Total Score: 83.54%
Schizoid Personality Disorder is Likely
Hi Dr. Honda. Have you considered making a deep dive about Chris Chan? There's a lot of information about it online and he became a very strange and socially inept person for being terminally online.
He had a formal diagnosis of Autism and learning difficulties. He'd problems didn't stem from being online although being online and the treatment he received from people online certainly didn't help him.
Great video thank you so much. It definitely looks like depression, sociopathy, narcissism, autism, adhd...
No
Lord….
Clearly you’ve undergone a change of mind, but in mentioning SPD in the past, you’ve really emphasized the one-dimensional and highly inaccurate DSM take that schizoid individuals are simply uninterested in relationship.
That’s what you’d think if, following the DSM, you’re restricting yourself to immediately observable characteristics. But there are obvious problems with that tack when it comes to psychology. I struggle to imagine a person who, down to their core, is simply uninterested in relationship. Maybe profoundly autistic or psychopathic people, idk, I’m no professional. But being quite schizoid myself-which I discovered via someone close to me who’s even more deeply schizoid-I can say with no doubt at all that the social-disinterest shoe only ever *seems* to fit schizoid individuals.
Schizoid problems show up in much more variegated ways than the DSM would have you believe. There’s a significant overlap between artistic inclinations and schizoid tendencies. Thus you’ll often enough, contrary to what the DSM might have you thinking, find schizoid individuals in the spotlight. They just don’t unequivocally relish it. Bob Dylan, Kurt Cobain, David Bowie-all quite schizoid, all having a complicated relationship to self-revelation in the press. Kafka, another classic schizoid artist-he certainly struggled to achieve reciprocal intimacy, but he was much more gregarious than his public image would tell you. Philosophers (and, for that matter, psychoanalysts) are often rather schizoid. Heidegger, Wittgenstein, Kierkegaard. Rather different people, relative hermits, but not exactly basement-dwellers either.
The apparent social disinterest in schizoids is an avoidant shell covering for an exquisitely sensitive core. Hence the connection with artists: the schizoid defense preserves the sensitivity of the soul. Of course, a schizoid might herself believe she doesn’t want or need others, but wouldn’t you tell yourself just that if early experiences taught you no one would ever understand you, or that intimacy would always involve unendurable pain? There’s a deep yearning for closeness beneath that distant exterior, and for freedom and spontaneity beneath that exile. As Kafka put it, “A cage went in search of a bird.”
I’d recommend R.D. Laing’s The Divided Self for anyone interested in further reading. Follow that up with Harry Guntrip’s Schizoid Phenomena, Object Relations and the Self for a more in-depth treatment.
Just adding to your comment about Kafka, his fiction and diary led to him being portrayed in the public eye as a depressive isolated tortured man. But it was interesting when I actually read the descriptions of Franz Kafka from his closest friend Max Brod (who preserved his writings) I realised that Kafka was indeed quite gregarious despite having such a distorted self image and inner turmoil. For example it was actually him that initiated contact with Brod and went out of his way to introduce himself, he organised hiking trips with his friends, he was part of a literary group that met every fortnight, and he used to read extracts of his works out-loud at dinner parties and roll with laughter and so on. Obviously someone who was completely asocial would not go out of their way to do any of these things. But when Kafka is used as a case study for schizoid, unfortunately his social inclinations are not properly discussed so we end up with this one-dimensional description of a schizoid being reinforced.
Alongside of your recommendations, I think the writings of Nancy Mcwilliams and her article "Some Thoughts on Schizoid Dynamics" also presents a more nuanced description of schizoid compared to the DSM. It's only 25 pages but it does have some interesting descriptions.
Late replying to this, but I think of all disorders where people would be most likely to be completely 'uninterested' in relationships, schizoids would probably be the closest ones behind maybe antisocial PD people. Even the two examples you mentioned - profound autism and psychopathy, most average people with those conditions probably still want attachments of some kind, but their needs are either different from what is considered the norm or the way they go about fulfilling their need for relationships is deviant from the norm.
I'm in a Facebook group for schizoids (as I consider myself somewhere on the SPD spectrum) and pretty much everyone, or a least everyone that posts or leaves comments in the group would say that they don't have much or any interest in relationships. But the irony here is that they're all in a group for SPD people where they come together to talk about stuff, and some of whom I see are regular users. So obviously, being SPD doesn't mean you have absolutely no interest in any kind of relationship or interaction (plus there are secret schizoids), but the more pointed question is how often do schizoids come across anyone that meets their needs and is compatible with their lifestyle and temperament? Let alone how many schizoids are isolated to begin with. Online groups, with the relative anonymity and lack of nonverbal feedback are perfect for schizoids in this way.
So the disinterest in relationships may still have some truth to it, but when you're neurodivergent in a predominantly neurotypical society and environment, it's going to be harder to find people that you fit in with. And this is kind of where there is a sort of overlap between schizoid and Avoidant PD - both as you said are sensitive to the core, the avoidant probably is more likely to be open about it and in touch with their feelings. It could also be argued in some cases that schizoids are just red-pilled avoidants or avoidants that have given up.
@@RaymondJiang444 nice reply. I’ve read there’s disagreement as to whether schizoid and avoidant should be separated out. Initially they were considered the same disorder. But if we hang onto the distinction, I’d have to describe myself as more avoidant than schizoid. When I meet people who are more schizoid, I relate, because I too have had long periods where I sort of gave and was not registering my own feelings. But I also get the feeling that they aren’t being entirely honest with themselves about their disinterest. They just never had their needs met and so can’t imagine they possibly could be met.
13 minutes in ...this is so much me... / previous me at therapy start.😅😅😅
It is a fictional character to which I am different.... ...but still comes close!! 😅😅
I'm back
The long-e ski really bugs me
4 minutes in ...sounds familiar...😅😅😅
If youre still seeing that guy ask him if he values human life. He sounds a lot like and and i dont value human life.
Stop saying we "suffer from schizoid personality disorder." I think you suffer from not having schizoid personality disorder 😅
I have a diagnosis of Schizoaffective disorder which is a mix of Bipolar Affective Disorder and Schizophrenia. At age 14 I showed symptoms of A.D.H.D. I was a trainee pilot officer in the RAF then spent 5 years in the French Foreign Legion. I became a financial futures broker and travelled round the world. I have been to 4 Universities and my CV is the largest on Facebook. Bilingual and I got 100% of the questions right at an IQ test and think Psychiatrists should be locked up for peoples safety.
Thank you for your comment!
Is this humor?
Well crap
This is stupid BS.
why?