It really blows my mind that any person could commit murder and actually think that could bring an old flame back to them and find happiness. Never has and never will it succeed. Just sick!
Karen Allen With a tiny mind, such as the one you possess, it doesn't take a lot of anything to "blow" it. The "sick" one is in fact you, simply because you are completely ignorant about any of the details of this case, but can't resist posting your crass comment. Get ALL the facts if you feel the need to comment.
Well this comment shows before you even click on comment so it gives away the whole story who did it and what not that text comment whatever should be removed
Yeah but the difference she get to see her in pictures or in jail her mom has her child so get to see her child get pic of her growing up but the mom and son didn’t even get so I’m glad she got life I wonder if she died
@@lizr990 - This comment is illegible. I got the general gist of it (many wouldn't), even though it seems to be replying to a different comment entirely. As though the OC said something like, "Killing that woman and her baby, cost the killer her own child."
It wasn't jealousy. It was narcisstic rage. There was no way she wouldn't get someone back for denying her what she wanted and (in her mind) insulted and rejected her. There was no way she would allow this innocent woman to "insult" her, too, and have what she had had and perhaps wanted back. He was hers! So it was that (rage) mixed with feelings of humiliation that the husband had no interest and therefore "rejected" her. How dare he! So she would annihilate his family and hurt him by killing the things that he loved - his wife and child.
This is one of the saddest stories I have ever seen. How horrible she is to murder a woman and her child all for a man who would never be hers; a man who didn't even want her.
If someone with a gun tries to get you into a car, call the bluff with screams. Learn to scream, women are good at that. While you are screaming, run. Die there rather than getting into that car. Often that scream will be enough to halt the kidnapping
To think that she either choked the 4 months-old baby, or left the baby to die in the arms of his mother which she has bludgeoned to death..... The baby's last memories were of seeing his mother being killed(and he spent days succumbing to hunger&cold in his mother's rotting corpse' embrace) or himself being choked by the same woman. It's just unbelievable how she managed to have her own child. Did she ever look at her baby and think about that other baby she murdered? What'd she do if someone does the same to her baby and herself? She deserves her life sentence. At least her daughter is still alive, while the boy she killed can't do that.
Yes, and now that child has to grow up knowing what their mother did. I'm the child of a murderer. It's rough. It's hard to imagine your parents at their worst. These poor kids had their innocence stolen by her.
@@crimeinvestigations5098 i know its not a competition but My "parents" kidnapped/abducted me when i was 6 months old, didn't find out until i was a fully grown adult, by then it was too late for me to embrace my biological parents, nevertheless i still love them just as much 🙃
You never drive away when someone forces you to do so, especially when they force you to drive to the woods. What do you think she is gonna do to you in the woods? Tea party? Even if you have a kid hostage in the backseat, you just crash your car onto an on coming traffic and hope for the best. Never ever drive away to a secluded place to make things easy for your kidnapper. They will not let you go.
What a tragedy for this beautiful lady and her baby. I'm sure she fought hard to save her baby and herself. Such a horrible person to kill over a man who didn't want her and moved on with his family. Such evilness. Rest in peace precious baby and mom. Sorry for her family and grandparents.
@@haroldrodriguez5678 Did you ever hear of just a normal comment, an expression like isn't it a beautiful day, beautiful soul, beautiful lady, beautiful child or the narrator saying kind and beautiful woman!!!! You, choose to zoom in and make it look like the way 'beautiful woman was used was because, the comment was shallow. Your implying that if the deceased was classed as 'ugly' ....would the comment be the same. Boy, you get the biscuit. The hideous, brutal, heinous crime is the topic and a beautiful human killed and a baby. Do you really think a person's facial features is of any interest, has any bearing on this tragedy!!?? Do you think 🤔 what a shallow person 🤔 would say to someone else when they comment on the tragedy and state a fact that the victim was a beautiful lady. Unbelievable.
@@haroldrodriguez5678 Who says anyone's talking about physical beauty? You're mind went right there so it's you with the problem. People regret to sometimes personality as "beautiful". Who are you to decide, based on your own obvious bias, what someone means when they call someone beautiful?
Best Narrator EVER!! That aside, very very sad case. Prayers to the family. Losing a loved one, let alone a child is forever. Thank God for the many involved to bring justice for this poor MOM and baby and their family.
She couldn't possibly have believed there was any chance of reviving the old romance. She lived far away and she didn't even try to contact the guy. I think her real motive was just jealousy and bitterness over having been told not to phone again.
Texas Ray She had no motive, she had no feelings for the guy (except as a friend), she had no bitterness. Show some sense and at least question what this disgraceful video has shown. You ought to acquire ALL the facts about this case.. .not just one video and believe it. All this video does is reinforce the guilty verdict when in fact there are several videos and a book which come out in her support and expose her trial as a wrongful conviction.
@@cfreeman106 OK, that's possible. I'm no fan of hair and fiber evidence, I think it is often used to frame people when they don't have any real evidence. DNA is pretty good evidence but "microscopically compatible hairs" is not and the worst is fibers. There are millions of possible sources for every type and color of fibers. But back to this gal. The fact that the body was found far from the victim's home where she was kidnapped but very near to the suspect's ranch in another state is pretty strong evidence, though not conclusive. I would suspect that she is guilty but the case was too weak and the hair evidence was the prosecutor's way of filling in the gap.
@@texasray5237 You’re right about hair and how much the cops made of what was really of no significance. I’ve read the book which makes a compelling case for her innocence, but not only that, shows a mountain of corruption and ineptitude by the cops and prosecution at her trial. There are so many holes in their case it would take me all night to lay them out here. For a start, your contention about the site where the bodies were discovered... it should be pointed out that the victims’ husband/father was very much familiar with that site... after all, he and Rorrer were a couple for several years and he accompanied her to that place frequently. And that site was NOT HER RANCH... it was a place where she used to stable her horses. Moving on to her case... commonsense dictates that it made no sense for anyone to drive 500 miles from her hometown to Pennsylvania, unscrew the board attached to the door, break into the house, make her way through to the end of the basement, in total darkness, cut the telephone line (she would have had to bring a bagful of tools), wait for the victim to turn up, force her at gunpoint to walk towards the victim’s car - risking being seen by bystanders - drive to the distant field, commit the murder, drive back, make her way to her own car, drive 500 miles back to her NC hometown (in a car which was known to be barely roadworthy). All that, without a single witness seeing any of these incidents. The question has to be asked... Why go through so much effort and risk when it would have been far more convenient, and far less risky, to do the murder in the victims’ home and then be on her way home. Her Defence team at her trial was simply not up to the job, which inevitably resulted in her downfall. There’s a lot more in the book, as well as a few documentaries that come out in her support. I’ll be happy to give you the links. If you’re interested, let me know. Among all the exaggerations in the above video, one outstandingly glaring lie is that the husband passed two polygraph tests. It's a documented fact he WAS POLYGRAPH TESTED TWICE AND FAILED BOTH TIMES! What I find most irritating is that many viewers of this video believe it and then comment on it as if it's fact. I’ve followed her case since day one and can mention many, many incidents involving corruption by the cops and prosecution... Incidents which include bare-faced lies, failure to disclose witnesses and items of evidence to Rorrer’s Defence team, and worst of all, evidence tampering.
@@cfreeman106 Clearly, somebody did indeed go to a lot of trouble to kidnap and transfer the victims that far prior to killing them.. And the only reason that makes any sense would be to intentionally blame the ex-girlfriend. And that would have to be the husband. Who else would even know about her?
How can anyone drop a bomb on a village full of innocent people which is far more disturbing, how can the state sanction to ending of an unborn child's life
I'd say that FBI profiler got it really wrong this time.....but then again, who in the world would EVER think a woman could do this to another woman and her infant? She's seriously demented.
What a tragic waste of a beautiful woman and her baby. So very sad for the husband and grandparents. I reckon that you are better off fighting for your life and being as violent and as loud as you can rather than be taken away. Same goes for child abduction. R.I.P both mother's and babies.♥️ It is hard but in a split second you have to decide not to be the victim. YOU have to become the attacker.
I always told my niece (she is 14 now) that if ever something like that would happen to her, she should scream as loud as she can. 1.If someone is near and heard, they can try and help 2. It can destabilise the abductor and could let her be free if he fears someone might do something In any case, i told her to try and do something because it is most likely that she'd never come back home if she just let herself being taken away
Absolutely correct. Always fight and never let anyone take you. The moment you are kidnapped your chances of survival are below 10% This was a truly horrific case. That poor lady and her little one and all their families
A bit difficult when the attacker has a loaded gun pointing at you… I don’t think you have many options but try and buy time until you can unarm them or your rescued.
Let me get this right…Pat killed a woman and her baby only to turn around and have a child herself with a whole different man😡😤You hated this woman and her life with your ex that her and her child had to die!!?? Wow, what a senseless waste of human life. Joann didn’t stand a chance against this evil creature.
Lady Andrews Maybe she didn't have a chance... as you put it, but at least some of us have the intelligence to see how much of a simpleton you are by believing what this video has to say. Learn ALL the facts about this case if you feel the need to comment.
Mj Smit If your wish came true, there'd be a whole lot of shows which are nothing short of lies and exaggeration. Here in this show, we see plenty of fodder to feed all these gullible morons who're content to watch one video and believe it to be the truth, when in fact it's far from that.
Ertjies B A few days ago, you asked me to explain my reason for opposing the guilty verdict. I responded with a perfectly good explanation. I even took the trouble to give you links which support that opinion. However, it seems, judging by your comment above, your mind was made up regardless of the documentaries and book I mentioned. I obviously wasted my time. What was the reason you asked me the question why I came to the conclusion of her innocence? I took the time and trouble to explain but it seems you've not bothered to check out those items. If your mind was made up by watching one biased documentary and had no wish to gather all the facts, what was the point of you asking me that question?
Just something I drill into my kids, when someone is taking you somewhere, don't go, the fight is on at the moment they try to coherce you into the car because otherwise you are dead, so that is when you fight. I taught all my kids that you fight then and there.
Such a sad story, but I'm sorry, I struggled all the way through due to the background music being so loud. I don't understand why programmes do that, not all of us have brilliant hearing.
It's horrific, but I've heard of others similar - like the ones where people have cut a baby out of it's mother's stomach, while the mother is alive and conscious! Or ones where entire families are murdered, even babies being buried alive. It's a world full of evil out there. I don't understand it. A hard life isn't an excuse. If your life's been so bad, kill yourself before you do something like this (although there are better options)!!! Don't destroy innocence itself!
Dr. Barry Cohn "Depraved and awful"? You claim you're a Doctor? Doctor of what? I would have thought anyone with that sort of title would be someone with a modicum of intelligence... something you seem to be lacking in spades. Perhaps in your country they award Doctorships to morons, which would explain a lot.
@@roomum9829 People like you, who so freely vent their hatred on others without having full knowledge of the case are themselves sickening. If you so badly feel the need to comment, acquire ALL the facts relating to this case first. Until then, YOUR LIFE deserves to be miserable. She was wrongly convicted and should be released.
Wow. So cold hearted and remorseless. Just think as she said to her baby, “If I had known I would get CAUGHT I wouldn’t have brought you into this world”. She expressed no remorse at all for the terrible thing she did to this woman and her baby. And not getting caught seemed by her expression more important than her own babies existence. Such evil.
Simply reading your asinine comment says a lot about how much of an idiot you are. Those words you quote were what a female police officer is supposed to have heard Rorrer say to her baby. In reality, she never said that all. That same officer was duly promoted after the trial ... thanks to her false allegation. To be remorseful for anything, one has to be guilty of committing a crime. In short, she was not remorseful simply because she was innocent of this crime. Learn ALL the facts before you mouth off with your holier than thou attitude.
@@cfreeman106 listen you very rude angry person with obvious mental issues. I had never heard of this case before, until I watched this program. Any decent person would be upset with murder especially the murder of a baby. My reaction is understandable!! Now if there is real evidence that she might be innocent I was not aware of this. But you act like everyone is supposed to know this. And you say I have a holier than thou Attitude when I’m clearly sickened by such cold heartedness. You probably relish in the murder of children! And your comment has such a personal stake in it I wouldn’t doubt it if you’re this woman accused of murder.
@@saymynameice-zen-berg511 You’re right, your reaction is understandable.... understandable only by these half-wits who, like you, feel the need to demonise a person who has no means of refuting these disgusting claims. When you say “you act like everyone is supposed to know this”... you hit the nail on the head, because everyone IS supposed to know the truth before they vent their spleens, especially when it’s aimed at an innocent person.
You watch just this one video (by your own admission), decide it’s gospel and then have the gall to say you aren’t aware of any other evidence! But nevertheless are happy to bad-mouth the person accused of this heinous crime. So then, despite shed-loads of evidence being available on various sources - a book, and several documentaries, all which make a compelling case for her innocence, which, according to your statement, you have no knowledge of - you prefer to accept this disgracefully biased video and let rip with your ignorant rant. I’ve made numerous comments on this site and others, either disputing claims by those such as yours... or hoping to educate them to the truth, which is borne out by the sources I’ve mentioned above - and which I’ve taken the time to watch and read. Rude, you say? Okay I’ll take that on the chin, but, in my defence that rudeness is only directed at those who mouth off with the most vicious and poisonous comments. How would you feel if you were villified by scores of ill-informed people and had no means of retaliating? Simply put, if you do not know ALL THE FACTS (about anything) do not post adverse comments.... least of all, when it concerns someone who’s been falsely accused and imprisoned. I’ve said this before and I say again... just because a court of law has found someone guilty, it doesn’t become the be-all and end-all of the case. History shows that scores of innocent people have been subjected to the cruel machinations of crooked cops and equally crooked DAs. Finally, because I choose to defend a person who has been falsely accused, it doesn’t mean I condone that awful crime... I too, like anyone else, see it as most horrific and sinful crime. But imprisoning the wrong person serves no justice for the victims ... and probably just as bad, is that the real culprit has been walking the streets for the last 24 years.
Husband of victim was a jerk who didn't tell about his past to the police in timely manner..That jerk destroyed four lives..There should also be some punishment for killer's parents as well for raising such a monster
They reported the other homicides wrong. Lisa Manderach and her daughter Devon were not found in the dressing room. The owners son took them away from the store to dispose of the bodies. They should be more factual.
This is very sad. I know everyone would react different in a situation like this.. I instantly thought if an angry ex has a gun in the backseat and forcing you to drive.. more than likely your driving to your death. So why not crash the car on purpose before your out of town so there are witnesses and hopefully the person runs off knowing they have been spotted. Then again, I don't know the area or if this was possible plus the fear had to be overwhelming. This is sad sad sad
Why did I always think that a woman could never be this kind of murderer? Pulling a trigger is quick and simple, I guess, but then delivering 20 blows to the head and face, hard enough to kill someone, would take an extraordinary amount of strength and energy which I suppose was fuelled by Pat's hatred of Joann. This was the most vicious, cruel and inexplicable crime I've ever heard of. So senseless. So brutal. With absolutely no payoff as far as I could see. Andy certainly wasn't going to take her back as a girlfriend. I am so impressed with how police departments and the FBI solve these cases and with how willing they are to continue week after week, month after month, year after year, never giving up and saying it can't be solved, even when they've been reduced to working with a single human hair with no root on it. It must feel at times like trying to row across the Atlantic Ocean on a paddleboard with a spoon for an oar. I feel such sorrow for Andy and the grandparents who have been robbed so savagely of their loved ones. And I am conflicted again over the moral issues which prompted abolition of the death penalty. Pat may be in jail for life with no chance of parole but she still gets to get up every day and breathe fresh air and find ways to get some enjoyment out of life. Joann and Alex have no such luxury.
With such a limited knowledge of this case, you have a great deal to say. But worst of all, you actually advocating your approval of the death sentence is particularly sickening, taking into account that Rorrer is innocent of this crime and needs to be set free... and those corrupt cops should do an honest job and find the real killer.
To kill a young mother is horrible and beyond but to kill a baby I'm not sure this is the one but he may have died from exposure starvation and exposure .. could have been alive for three days or more just horrible
They gave the husband 2 polygraphs, because they need to be sure when the first one showed he wasn't lying... Strangely, I am 100% sure they wouldn't have given him 2 if the first one showed he lied..
Ertjies B Just goes to show how little you know about this case. It's a well-documented fact he failed TWO polygraph tests. Learn ALL the facts before posting inaccurate details.
I remember seeing this story a long time ago when crime stories first came into vogue...it was heartbreaking then and heartbreaking almost 20 years lady. What a cruel woman Rorrer is.....
You should be more circumspect with your assumptions. You know very little about this case. If you take the trouble to learn more about this, you will see she has been wrongfully convicted.
Why wasn't this a death-penalty case?? Very few men are worth this amount of trouble. If he has moved on, married or begun a new relationship, and started a family, YOU move on, too! Get over it already. By all means have your mourning period, but...murdering his wife in the hopes that'll make him take you back? That's extraordinarily immature, unrealistic, and narcissistic. Try your very level best to never get into a car with an abductor, even a gunpoint or a knife at your throat. Once you are in that car, your chances of emerging alive diminish exponentially. If they are going to kill you, make them do it OUTSIDE of the car. While you are outside of the car, you still have a chance--however remote--to run in a zigzag pattern, fight, yell, and if you are trained, disarm or disable the assailant. Once in that car--where the door handles may have been removed or where, perhaps, a second assailant is waiting--all bets are off.
If it haunts you simply reading and remembering it from years ago, think how much worse it is for the falsely accused person who's spent the last 24 years languishing in prison. The cops, prosecution, DA's office -- all responsible for her incarceration -- must be totally devoid of conscience and morals. And just as bad are these so-called documentaries (like the one above) which present this case in the most damaging way. They manufacture, exaggerate and speculate scenes (some of which were never even mentioned at her trial), which the viewers then believe, make further comments, which go on and on to the point most of them take it to be the truth. A great deal of evidence and revelations has emerged since her trial, which throws a completely different light on this case.
Why? just Why this is so freakin wrong. Then she is in prison her whole like and her daughter has to grow up knowing what her mother did. It is like Karma. But both who are punished are innocent, the babies!!
I know they say she was the only one involved, but how did he call his mom at 8 pm if the phone lines had been cut? He didn’t notice the phone lines were cut earlier?
Truly amazing? Only if you're gullible enough to believe this video. There are other documentaries and a book which tell a completely different story. She's the victim of wrongful conviction.
So the person who saw a man pulling a woman and a baby into the bushes just did not think of calling police....thats just crazy ... Hair could have been dyed or wearing a wig...
So she almost got away with it because: 1) "women can't be violent" 2) she gave an alibi that was really easy to disprove but they didn't bother the first time around 3) What do you mean, people dye their hair?? Impossible!!
How could ANYONE murder a poor, little 4 month old baby??? The only thing worse is leaving the baby in the woods, to slowly die from exposure & dehydration (or animals attacking him), while lying in the arms of his dead mother. I can't imagine a more heartless act. I'd rather the baby be suffocated than that! He didn't even get to start life!
Lot of truth in what you say. I've read the book regarding this case, which reveals he had a girlfriend, Donna, with whom he was having an affair all the while his wife was pregnant and after. After the trial, he and his girlfriend went to live in Colorado, where they later married. This video above is grossly biased and fails to show a whole lot which favours Rorrer, fails to reveal the corruption and ineptitude of the investigators and DA's office, and presents various scenes as if that was what actually happened, when in fact they were only theories presented at her trial. This is a disgraceful case of wrongful conviction and the cops and other law officials should be brought to book.
Wanderer, come Home And you can thank goodness you're in a position to post this comment because you're a good-for-nothing, gullible moron. You know absolutely nothing about this case, but cannot resist mouthing off with your crap. Have you considered it could have been you or any one of your family convicted of this crime? Because that's exactly what happened to an innocent person who's been convicted. Learn ALL the facts about this case if you feel the need to comment. That poor woman has been wrongly convicted, lost her daughter, and her freedom, thanks to crooked cops and the prosecution team at her trial, and then there are people, like you, who post malicious statements about a person who has no means to reply to that trashy nonsense.
OMG!! So Cold Bloodied of the Killer! That's Just Awful! To think how scarred she had to be for her self! But also for her 4 month old Baby! "Do y'all think women can be as Cold As Men?" I didn't until I saw this FBI Story!
Alan Spence Despite the guilty verdict of the person now imprisoned, there was absolutely no concrete evidence which justified that verdict..... it was all circumstantial, with a lot of speculation and theories. This documentary above is grossly biased. It does not mention the prosecution failing to reveal witnesses and items of evidence to Rorrer's defence team -- as they're obliged to do.... which would otherwise have thrown a vastly different light on how the trial went.
@Bridget Smith If and when you take the time to acquire ALL the details relevant to this case, you can then enter a sensible comment. Until then, keep your asinine comments to yourself. Whatever information you've got from the video above is biased and totally misleading.
Absolutely 💯 agree with you there vile disgusting so-called human being makes me feel physically sick how any1 could do that to anybody is bad enough but a wee defenseless baby come on now.Definetly needing to be dealt with in the same manner if not worse, but if it was upto me I'd just rid this world of this dirty low-life skum the sooner the better!!.
We didn't have cell phones. So if it was a shopping trip they were taking while Andy was working it's unlikely she would call his job to tell him that.
I had seen this story before but you gave so much detail that I never knew about. Good job!! Were they able to clear her in the murder of the woman and child in the dressing room? Nothing else was said.
The son of the store owners is the person who killed the woman and child in the dressing room. He had some kind of medieval fantasy and the woman fit the type for him.
Thinking to myself:" What kind of crazy horrible woman commits murder becaues her partner moves on with his life and finds happiness with someone else---" * Suddenly realizes that men do this ALL THE TIME.
and you got to remember Andy wasn't the marrying kind. said it in the beginning. then he marries Joanne. when patricia calls and gets that news. i can believe it would upset her.
minulay29 You talk like you're some sort of expert on human behaviour. I'd like to know how you arrived at your decision about her being guilty? My guess is you've seen this one documentary to which this case refers and you've made up your mind ... and then feel you have to give everyone a lesson in human behaviour! There are quite a few documentaries which show this case to be a wrongful conviction .... as well as a book. Have you watched or read any of the above? The answer to that is obvious, Mr Armchair Psychologist!
I pray she doesn’t. I pray her daughter is having a good life and has completely forgotten about her evil mother. So sad. I live near this area. I was only 10 when this was happening but I remember my mother being scared to leave our house for a while. There were all these warnings on our local news telling women not to leave the house with their children and not to let children play outside. Just horrible. Her poor victims.
@@crimedogs Absolutely not! I wouldn’t talk to her at all. It takes a special kind of evil person to leave a baby for dead. Especially when you’re pregnant yourself. No real maternal figure could do something like this abhorrent.
Who kills a baby? It won't end well with whoever did this. Really sad. We have to be careful with whom we let into our lives. Rip momma bear and sweet angel.
What!!!,if the police had done the job properly in the first place an checked her alibi in her first interview it would have been solved then.. Sloppy police work more like..
Isn't it sad that there is literally no way for the spouse to not have to be put through this torture that always slows down the investigation in cases where it WASN'T the spouse. A couple can literally die together & the 1st thing most cops think on their way to a call is Was it a murder suicide? Yeah I'm aware it happens often. When I was in 1st grade my kindergarten teacher & the baby she was pregnant with my kindergarten year were victims of a murder suicide. I knew before the rest of the school because she lived near me & my dad's cousin was the sheriff. He came down & got my father to come stop traffic & keep the reporters roadside. They buried her with her baby in her arms. It's a shame but the way cops always immediately focus on the spouse makes you wonder if they aren't actually just hoping for an easy open shut case.
I have seen a lot of real crime shows where the police are positive the spouse is guilty and when they find out the spouse is not the murderer they are always disappointed. 🙄
And they don’t seem to see,that they could have a happy life,if only they let the past go.They live their lives looking back at the past,and getting bitter,over it. They never look forward,and make something good of what they have.
And then the nerve to apologize to her own baby, whom she obviously cherished, telling her that if she'd known she would be caught, she would never have "brought you into this world." SMDH
It's plainly obvious you know very little about this case. You watch the biased documentary above and decide it's the truth, when in fact it's far from that. No argument this was a heinous crime, but if you learned all the details about this case, you will find the wrong person has been imprisoned. Don't just watch one documentary and make a judgement on that..... LEARN ALL THE FACTS.
Cfreeman, You may be too close to this case to see that not all of us are unkind.(Noticed you made several replies. It’s ok to express your feelings.) When we have a personal connection to any story we know much more about the case/story/song/etc than most interpret from a broadcasted video. Many of us have at least one personal connection to stories on UA-cam. If you want to tell us more in this forum tag me and I’ll read. My statement is neutral. No matter what the real truth is about this case I am saddened for the husband who lost his wife and child. No matter who murdered them I feel sad for him - even if he did it. Whomever did it must feel awful now. Let me add, I feel sad for ALL of her loved ones.
@@judybevers5557 That's very good of you to express your sadness ... but I find it remarkable you are sad for the husband ... EVEN IF HE DID IT! as you say. There's a strong argument to suggest that even if he didn't actually do the crime, he may very well have been involved. For one thing, he failed the polygraph examination on TWO OCCASIONS. For another, he was the one who pointed the cops in the direction of Rorrer (who, as I've already stated several times, is innocent of this crime). For another, he was actually IN THE CAR (believed to have been the vehicle used in the crime) when the cops arrived at the scene.... which incidentally, was completely free of any forensic material (no finger-prints, no blood -- which should have been in abundance), no soil inside or outside the car. The copper in attendance actually said... it's as if the vehicle was wiped completely clean! .... curious however, that only six hairs waiting to be found! ... which was the nail in her coffin eventually. But even that is open to suspicion of evidence tampering... Go to Judges for Justice (with her name) and watch. It's nine minutes into the video. Contrary to what you think, I am not related in any way to the convicted lady and have never been acquainted with her. I took an interest in this many years ago when I watch a documentary which seemed to be patently biased and just did not ring true. I subsequently read the book, Convenient Suspect, written by Tammy Mal, which was extensively researched, and that firmly established my opinion of her innocence. I could go on and on with multiple incidents of corruption and ineptitude by the cops but don't want to get too boring. My apologies if I came across as too offensive.
@@judybevers5557 You feel sad for her loved ones! Fair comment. But there is another issue here.... As you have probably surmised, I have no doubt, Rorrer being incarcerated for the last 27 years, was a wrongful conviction... for reasons explained on this site and many others. That being the case, how do you think it must be for a person who has been forcefully estranged from her infant daughter for all those years, no thanks to all the corruption at the investigation and her trial?
It really blows my mind that any person could commit murder and actually think that could bring an old flame back to them and find happiness. Never has and never will it succeed. Just sick!
Karen Allen With a tiny mind, such as the one you possess, it doesn't take a lot of anything to "blow" it. The "sick" one is in fact you, simply because you are completely ignorant about any of the details of this case, but can't resist posting your crass comment. Get ALL the facts if you feel the need to comment.
She is too wicked I can't believe that over a man who don't want no more idiot
Beyond sick.
@@heavenlyprincess9502 You must try very hard to not be so self-critical.
@@cfreeman106 I am entitled to my own opinion.
How could a person who slowly killed another baby care about her own baby? This woman went far beyond jealousy. She was sadistic.
Definitely!
Idk. Ppl who are ok with late term abortion seem to think killing a newborn is murder but abortion isn't... 🤔
I pray she suffocated him, better than the torture of a slow painful death. To say that shows just how UnGodly an act she committed.
Well this comment shows before you even click on comment so it gives away the whole story who did it and what not that text comment whatever should be removed
True!!! Hopefully everyone watches before reading it🙈😉
I remember this case from Forensic Files. It's terrible how a person can be so jealous that they would kill a little baby and their mother. Tragic
Yeah but the difference she get to see her in pictures or in jail her mom has her child so get to see her child get pic of her growing up but the mom and son didn’t even get so I’m glad she got life I wonder if she died
@@lizr990 - This comment is illegible. I got the general gist of it (many wouldn't), even though it seems to be replying to a different comment entirely.
As though the OC said something like, "Killing that woman and her baby, cost the killer her own child."
@@wvrjl Lol. But, we DID get the "gist" of the message afterall.
It wasn't jealousy. It was narcisstic rage. There was no way she wouldn't get someone back for denying her what she wanted and (in her mind) insulted and rejected her. There was no way she would allow this innocent woman to "insult" her, too, and have what she had had and perhaps wanted back. He was hers! So it was that (rage) mixed with feelings of humiliation that the husband had no interest and therefore "rejected" her. How dare he! So she would annihilate his family and hurt him by killing the things that he loved - his wife and child.
@@lizr990 What's all this crap about? Your comment seems to suggest you're on some sort of mind-bending drug, can't make head or tail of it!
This is one of the saddest stories I have ever seen. How horrible she is to murder a woman and her child all for a man who would never be hers; a man who didn't even want her.
I know right? If he wanted her, he'd have asked her back when she came to visit him after her and her boyfriend had a fight. So sad.
Logic thinking has no part in frenzy and jealousy
Thanks you’ve just saved me an hours watching time
A man is not worth it ! lol not even remotely
@@Bee-ly4gx I hope you take the time to watch because it is so sad and fascinating at the same time. Please see the video in its entirety.
REMEMBER:
* Nothing good ever happens at the second location. You might as well take your chances and fight at the first one.
If someone with a gun tries to get you into a car, call the bluff with screams. Learn to scream, women are good at that. While you are screaming, run. Die there rather than getting into that car.
Often that scream will be enough to halt the kidnapping
So true your words!
This is what I have drilled into my girls. Better to be killed right there than what they will do to you at the 2nd location.
So true. My mother always said this.
She could have fought or maybe try something else while riding the car
To think that she either choked the 4 months-old baby, or left the baby to die in the arms of his mother which she has bludgeoned to death..... The baby's last memories were of seeing his mother being killed(and he spent days succumbing to hunger&cold in his mother's rotting corpse' embrace) or himself being choked by the same woman.
It's just unbelievable how she managed to have her own child. Did she ever look at her baby and think about that other baby she murdered? What'd she do if someone does the same to her baby and herself?
She deserves her life sentence. At least her daughter is still alive, while the boy she killed can't do that.
Yes, and now that child has to grow up knowing what their mother did. I'm the child of a murderer. It's rough. It's hard to imagine your parents at their worst. These poor kids had their innocence stolen by her.
@@maggielee1870 I’m sorry my mom was also a murderder
@@crimeinvestigations5098 i know its not a competition but My "parents" kidnapped/abducted me when i was 6 months old, didn't find out until i was a fully grown adult, by then it was too late for me to embrace my biological parents, nevertheless i still love them just as much 🙃
@@candyguy775 so is it too late or you love them? Kind of contradictory- in my opinion people that sick need ZERO attention especially love
@@maggielee1870 can you divulge us with more detail? No worries if not, I’m sorry you have to go through the hoops of acceptance with that, gnarly
You never drive away when someone forces you to do so, especially when they force you to drive to the woods. What do you think she is gonna do to you in the woods? Tea party? Even if you have a kid hostage in the backseat, you just crash your car onto an on coming traffic and hope for the best. Never ever drive away to a secluded place to make things easy for your kidnapper. They will not let you go.
I'd rather for you to kill me in public than for you to carry me away by gun point and God knows if they'll ever find me then.
This has to be one of the saddest stories, and there are a lot of them.
What a tragedy for this beautiful lady and her baby. I'm sure she fought hard to save her baby and herself. Such a horrible person to kill over a man who didn't want her and moved on with his family. Such evilness. Rest in peace precious baby and mom. Sorry for her family and grandparents.
What if she wasn't 'beautiful'? Would your comment be any different? What a vain little world!
@@haroldrodriguez5678 Did you ever hear of just a normal comment, an expression like isn't it a beautiful day, beautiful soul, beautiful lady, beautiful child or the narrator saying kind and beautiful woman!!!! You, choose to zoom in and make it look like the way 'beautiful woman was used was because, the comment was shallow. Your implying that if the deceased was classed as 'ugly' ....would the comment be the same. Boy, you get the biscuit. The hideous, brutal, heinous crime is the topic and a beautiful human killed and a baby. Do you really think a person's facial features is of any interest, has any bearing on this tragedy!!?? Do you think 🤔 what a shallow person 🤔 would say to someone else when they comment on the tragedy and state a fact that the victim was a beautiful lady. Unbelievable.
@@haroldrodriguez5678 Who says anyone's talking about physical beauty? You're mind went right there so it's you with the problem. People regret to sometimes personality as "beautiful". Who are you to decide, based on your own obvious bias, what someone means when they call someone beautiful?
@@haroldrodriguez5678 what's wrong with you???
@@halo218813 He was obviously someone who doesnt feel beautiful
Got to give it up to the police and investigators in this Case, they did work!
They wasted four days suspecting Andy
@@salomenewsome4188 typical to pick out a strand of negative in a pile of positive
Give it up, you say! Give what up? They were a bunch of corrupt crooks who deserve to be locked up .... and that goes for the prosecution.
Best Narrator EVER!! That aside, very very sad case. Prayers to the family. Losing a loved one, let alone a child is forever. Thank God for the many involved to bring justice for this poor MOM and baby and their family.
Ok, I missed the part why did she kill her and the poor baby and did her baby belong to the husband?
Most painful narrator, perhaps. Only narrators lacking the harshness of North American accents are in contention for “best”.
Peter Thomas all day
@@anhedonianepiphany5588 Where are you from?
Bill Curtis, Robert Stacks, Peter Thomas. No particular order.
She couldn't possibly have believed there was any chance of reviving the old romance.
She lived far away and she didn't even try to contact the guy. I think her real motive was just jealousy and bitterness over having been told not to phone again.
Texas Ray She had no motive, she had no feelings for the guy (except as a friend), she had no bitterness. Show some sense and at least question what this disgraceful video has shown. You ought to acquire ALL the facts about this case.. .not just one video and believe it. All this video does is reinforce the guilty verdict when in fact there are several videos and a book which come out in her support and expose her trial as a wrongful conviction.
@@cfreeman106
OK, that's possible.
I'm no fan of hair and fiber evidence, I think it is often used to frame people when they don't have any real evidence. DNA is pretty good evidence but "microscopically compatible hairs" is not and the worst is fibers. There are millions of possible sources for every type and color of fibers.
But back to this gal. The fact that the body was found far from the victim's home where she was kidnapped but very near to the suspect's ranch in another state is pretty strong evidence, though not conclusive. I would suspect that she is guilty but the case was too weak and the hair evidence was the prosecutor's way of filling in the gap.
@@texasray5237 You’re right about hair and how much the cops made of what was really of no significance. I’ve read the book which makes a compelling case for her innocence, but not only that, shows a mountain of corruption and ineptitude by the cops and prosecution at her trial.
There are so many holes in their case it would take me all night to lay them out here.
For a start, your contention about the site where the bodies were discovered... it should be pointed out that the victims’ husband/father was very much familiar with that site... after all, he and Rorrer were a couple for several years and he accompanied her to that place frequently. And that site was NOT HER RANCH... it was a place where she used to stable her horses.
Moving on to her case... commonsense dictates that it made no sense for anyone to drive 500 miles from her hometown to Pennsylvania, unscrew the board attached to the door, break into the house, make her way through to the end of the basement, in total darkness, cut the telephone line (she would have had to bring a bagful of tools), wait for the victim to turn up, force her at gunpoint to walk towards the victim’s car - risking being seen by bystanders - drive to the distant field, commit the murder, drive back, make her way to her own car, drive 500 miles back to her NC hometown (in a car which was known to be barely roadworthy). All that, without a single witness seeing any of these incidents. The question has to be asked... Why go through so much effort and risk when it would have been far more convenient, and far less risky, to do the murder in the victims’ home and then be on her way home.
Her Defence team at her trial was simply not up to the job, which inevitably resulted in her downfall.
There’s a lot more in the book, as well as a few documentaries that come out in her support. I’ll be happy to give you the links. If you’re interested, let me know.
Among all the exaggerations in the above video, one outstandingly glaring lie is that the husband passed two polygraph tests. It's a documented fact he WAS POLYGRAPH TESTED TWICE AND FAILED BOTH TIMES! What I find most irritating is that many viewers of this video believe it and then comment on it as if it's fact.
I’ve followed her case since day one and can mention many, many incidents involving corruption by the cops and prosecution... Incidents which include bare-faced lies, failure to disclose witnesses and items of evidence to Rorrer’s Defence team, and worst of all, evidence tampering.
@@cfreeman106
Post the links at the top of the thread so everybody can benefit.
@@cfreeman106
Clearly, somebody did indeed go to a lot of trouble to kidnap and transfer the victims that far prior to killing them.. And the only reason that makes any sense would be to intentionally blame the ex-girlfriend. And that would have to be the husband.
Who else would even know about her?
I had hoped they survived. I am so so sorry. How anyone could hurt a baby and it's mom. So so tragic
That question would be more appropriate addressed to the husband.
you did? you thought you were watching an entire tv production about a woman who skipped town for a bit and then came home? lol
How can anyone drop a bomb on a village full of innocent people which is far more disturbing, how can the state sanction to ending of an unborn child's life
I'd say that FBI profiler got it really wrong this time.....but then again, who in the world would EVER think a woman could do this to another woman and her infant? She's seriously demented.
shows often make the profiling seem way more useful than it is. It's kind of useless in most cases.
Amelia K_108...Not demented. Just a psychopath
Profiler was right about weapon malfunction
Don't forget the woman who cut the baby out of another woman. Horrible.
Why not? Women are very capable of murdering anyone, including their own family...ie Susan Smith.
What a tragic waste of a beautiful woman and her baby. So very sad for the husband and grandparents. I reckon that you are better off fighting for your life and being as violent and as loud as you can rather than be taken away. Same goes for child abduction. R.I.P both mother's and babies.♥️
It is hard but in a split second you have to decide not to be the victim. YOU have to become the attacker.
Right. Defensive training teaches to fight back, scream, do whatever to gain attention vs going passively with an abductor.
I always told my niece (she is 14 now) that if ever something like that would happen to her, she should scream as loud as she can.
1.If someone is near and heard, they can try and help
2. It can destabilise the abductor and could let her be free if he fears someone might do something
In any case, i told her to try and do something because it is most likely that she'd never come back home if she just let herself being taken away
Absolutely correct. Always fight and never let anyone take you. The moment you are kidnapped your chances of survival are below 10%
This was a truly horrific case. That poor lady and her little one and all their families
That's it, never allow anyone to take you away. Let them kill you where they found you. They're taking you to kill anyway
A bit difficult when the attacker has a loaded gun pointing at you… I don’t think you have many options but try and buy time until you can unarm them or your rescued.
Let me get this right…Pat killed a woman and her baby only to turn around and have a child herself with a whole different man😡😤You hated this woman and her life with your ex that her and her child had to die!!?? Wow, what a senseless waste of human life. Joann didn’t stand a chance against this evil creature.
There might have been more earlier in her life. Totally unhinged.
Tragic! Senseless. Who could kill a baby let alone another woman!
Lady Andrews Maybe she didn't have a chance... as you put it, but at least some of us have the intelligence to see how much of a simpleton you are by believing what this video has to say. Learn ALL the facts about this case if you feel the need to comment.
@@cfreeman106 OK Pat 🤣
You got this right
The copy cat murder some months later is also a horrible part of this very shocking saddening story.
I wish they still made crime shows that present a tragic story like this with respect. No over the top sensationalism and sexualization.
Mj Smit If your wish came true, there'd be a whole lot of shows which are nothing short of lies and exaggeration. Here in this show, we see plenty of fodder to feed all these gullible morons who're content to watch one video and believe it to be the truth, when in fact it's far from that.
They hadn't been together for years, she had long since moved on.
Yet she killed his new wife?
She is definitely insane.
Ertjies B A few days ago, you asked me to explain my reason for opposing the guilty verdict. I responded with a perfectly good explanation. I even took the trouble to give you links which support that opinion. However, it seems, judging by your comment above, your mind was made up regardless of the documentaries and book I mentioned. I obviously wasted my time. What was the reason you asked me the question why I came to the conclusion of her innocence? I took the time and trouble to explain but it seems you've not bothered to check out those items. If your mind was made up by watching one biased documentary and had no wish to gather all the facts, what was the point of you asking me that question?
Just something I drill into my kids, when someone is taking you somewhere, don't go, the fight is on at the moment they try to coherce you into the car because otherwise you are dead, so that is when you fight. I taught all my kids that you fight then and there.
Such a sad story, but I'm sorry, I struggled all the way through due to the background music being so loud. I don't understand why programmes do that, not all of us have brilliant hearing.
I have this complaint about many of these shows. I may be elderly but my hearing is fine!
@@joycefranklin8981 Thank you, glad I'm not on my own x
Me too🙋🏻♀️
You’re not remotely alone. 🌷
Use the closed captioning.
@Bridget Smith Sod right off. The background music is too loud, Sorry if I have a problem with it.
What an amazing case! How depraved and awful. So sick. Never have heard of such a kind of case. Thanks for posting.
It's horrific, but I've heard of others similar - like the ones where people have cut a baby out of it's mother's stomach, while the mother is alive and conscious! Or ones where entire families are murdered, even babies being buried alive. It's a world full of evil out there. I don't understand it. A hard life isn't an excuse. If your life's been so bad, kill yourself before you do something like this (although there are better options)!!! Don't destroy innocence itself!
Dr. Barry Cohn "Depraved and awful"? You claim you're a Doctor? Doctor of what? I would have thought anyone with that sort of title would be someone with a modicum of intelligence... something you seem to be lacking in spades. Perhaps in your country they award Doctorships to morons, which would explain a lot.
Truth is stranger than fiction, and more grim and cruel...
How awful. How can someone kill an innocent baby and its mother?I hope everyone in her prison knows what she did to that innocent baby.
Same here! Prisoners generally hate any other inmate that murders a child. I hope they make every day of her life miserable!!
@@roomum9829 People like you, who so freely vent their hatred on others without having full knowledge of the case are themselves sickening. If you so badly feel the need to comment, acquire ALL the facts relating to this case first. Until then, YOUR LIFE deserves to be miserable. She was wrongly convicted and should be released.
Heartbreaking conversation she had with her baby.
Wow. So cold hearted and remorseless. Just think as she said to her baby, “If I had known I would get CAUGHT I wouldn’t have brought you into this world”. She expressed no remorse at all for the terrible thing she did to this woman and her baby. And not getting caught seemed by her expression more important than her own babies existence. Such evil.
Sounds like a line from a bad made for TV movie. I don't believe for a second that she said that, in front of law enforcement no less.
Simply reading your asinine comment says a lot about how much of an idiot you are. Those words you quote were what a female police officer is supposed to have heard Rorrer say to her baby. In reality, she never said that all. That same officer was duly promoted after the trial ... thanks to her false allegation. To be remorseful for anything, one has to be guilty of committing a crime. In short, she was not remorseful simply because she was innocent of this crime. Learn ALL the facts before you mouth off with your holier than thou attitude.
@@cfreeman106 listen you very rude angry person with obvious mental issues. I had never heard of this case before, until I watched this program. Any decent person would be upset with murder especially the murder of a baby. My reaction is understandable!!
Now if there is real evidence that she might be innocent I was not aware of this. But you act like everyone is supposed to know this.
And you say I have a holier than thou
Attitude when I’m clearly sickened by such cold heartedness. You probably relish in the murder of children!
And your comment has such a personal stake in it I wouldn’t doubt it if you’re this woman accused of murder.
@@saymynameice-zen-berg511
You’re right, your reaction is understandable.... understandable only by these half-wits who, like you, feel the need to demonise a person who has no means of refuting these disgusting claims.
When you say “you act like everyone is supposed to know this”... you hit the nail on the head, because everyone IS supposed to know the truth before they vent their spleens, especially when it’s aimed at an innocent person.
You watch just this one video (by your own admission), decide it’s gospel and then have the gall to say you aren’t aware of any other evidence! But nevertheless are happy to bad-mouth the person accused of this heinous crime.
So then, despite shed-loads of evidence being available on various sources - a book, and several documentaries, all which make a compelling case for her innocence, which, according to your statement, you have no knowledge of - you prefer to accept this disgracefully biased video and let rip with your ignorant rant.
I’ve made numerous comments on this site and others, either disputing claims by those such as yours... or hoping to educate them to the truth, which is borne out by the sources I’ve mentioned above - and which I’ve taken the time to watch and read.
Rude, you say? Okay I’ll take that on the chin, but, in my defence that rudeness is only directed at those who mouth off with the most vicious and poisonous comments. How would you feel if you were villified by scores of ill-informed people and had no means of retaliating?
Simply put, if you do not know ALL THE FACTS (about anything) do not post adverse comments.... least of all, when it concerns someone who’s been falsely accused and imprisoned.
I’ve said this before and I say again... just because a court of law has found someone guilty, it doesn’t become the be-all and end-all of the case. History shows that scores of innocent people have been subjected to the cruel machinations of crooked cops and equally crooked DAs.
Finally, because I choose to defend a person who has been falsely accused, it doesn’t mean I condone that awful crime... I too, like anyone else, see it as most horrific and sinful crime. But imprisoning the wrong person serves no justice for the victims ... and probably just as bad, is that the real culprit has been walking the streets for the last 24 years.
@@cfreeman106 No one’s going to read your response, you wrote a damn book.
Always fight........they are gonna try and harm you anyway........they're crazy......
I will never understand how people see things going down and don't report it. It may not have been her but it was someone under duress!
thats what i said
Husband of victim was a jerk who didn't tell about his past to the police in timely manner..That jerk destroyed four lives..There should also be some punishment for killer's parents as well for raising such a monster
They reported the other homicides wrong. Lisa Manderach and her daughter Devon were not found in the dressing room. The owners son took them away from the store to dispose of the bodies. They should be more factual.
I found this fascinating especially watching the advancement of DNA science. Thanks
The guy said that he's sees a man pulling a frightened lady with a child into the bush and thinks ' nothing to see here '? 🤷♂🤷♂🤦♂🤦♂
That's what I thought too. Wow, buddy, thanks for intervening.
Yeah really 😌 what a loser!!! I've never understood the "it's none of my business." Thinking!!!! 😡 I'd be running over to help.
@@Queen.AnneBoleyn because sometimes people want your help sometimes they don't.
People do not care, they usually say the victim was "asking for it"
This is very sad. I know everyone would react different in a situation like this.. I instantly thought if an angry ex has a gun in the backseat and forcing you to drive.. more than likely your driving to your death. So why not crash the car on purpose before your out of town so there are witnesses and hopefully the person runs off knowing they have been spotted. Then again, I don't know the area or if this was possible plus the fear had to be overwhelming. This is sad sad sad
Its hard to believe that someone would actually want to kill you though! Probably was hoping that we could just talk things through?
I’ve seen recommendations of crashing into someone else in this situation…. Makes a lot of sense!
@@shellwirtful The baby , though 😣
@@gordonaliasme1104 just a fender bender ….
@@shellwirtful mkay
This puts flattening the other woman's tires in a new perspective....evil evil evil!
This was sad, rest in peace mom and little man
She must have been planning on doing something to Andy if she had that much knowledge of the house after only a couple of days. A ticking time bomb.
Why did I always think that a woman could never be this kind of murderer? Pulling a trigger is quick and simple, I guess, but then delivering 20 blows to the head and face, hard enough to kill someone, would take an extraordinary amount of strength and energy which I suppose was fuelled by Pat's hatred of Joann. This was the most vicious, cruel and inexplicable crime I've ever heard of. So senseless. So brutal. With absolutely no payoff as far as I could see. Andy certainly wasn't going to take her back as a girlfriend. I am so impressed with how police departments and the FBI solve these cases and with how willing they are to continue week after week, month after month, year after year, never giving up and saying it can't be solved, even when they've been reduced to working with a single human hair with no root on it. It must feel at times like trying to row across the Atlantic Ocean on a paddleboard with a spoon for an oar. I feel such sorrow for Andy and the grandparents who have been robbed so savagely of their loved ones. And I am conflicted again over the moral issues which prompted abolition of the death penalty. Pat may be in jail for life with no chance of parole but she still gets to get up every day and breathe fresh air and find ways to get some enjoyment out of life. Joann and Alex have no such luxury.
With such a limited knowledge of this case, you have a great deal to say. But worst of all, you actually advocating your approval of the death sentence is particularly sickening, taking into account that Rorrer is innocent of this crime and needs to be set free... and those corrupt cops should do an honest job and find the real killer.
They say there's a lot of murders that go unsolved. Probably a lot of them were done by women like this but there was no one to trace them to it.
Oh my goodness I hope not! Thats a terrifying thought
To kill a young mother is horrible and beyond but to kill a baby I'm not sure this is the one but he may have died from exposure starvation and exposure .. could have been alive for three days or more just horrible
They gave the husband 2 polygraphs, because they need to be sure when the first one showed he wasn't lying...
Strangely, I am 100% sure they wouldn't have given him 2 if the first one showed he lied..
Ertjies B Just goes to show how little you know about this case. It's a well-documented fact he failed TWO polygraph tests. Learn ALL the facts before posting inaccurate details.
@@cfreeman106 this video says he did two and they showed he did NOT lie. So not sure why you are being so snarky.
Polygraph tests are not accurate and should not be used .
@@ZNOM9 Because he's a troll.
@@cfreeman106 - He didn't fail two polygraphs - he PASSED both of them.
despicable that someone could do this to a mother and her baby.
I remember seeing this story a long time ago when crime stories first came into vogue...it was heartbreaking then and heartbreaking almost 20 years lady. What a cruel woman Rorrer is.....
You should be more circumspect with your assumptions. You know very little about this case. If you take the trouble to learn more about this, you will see she has been wrongfully convicted.
How can humankind be so unkind??
Well yes, it's KIND of strange .....
I checked. She is still in prison.
GOOD! Let her rot there.
Good
If you saw a frightening woman being led into the woods while holding a baby.... why wouldn't you at least call the authorities???
Why wasn't this a death-penalty case??
Very few men are worth this amount of trouble. If he has moved on, married or begun a new relationship, and started a family, YOU move on, too! Get over it already. By all means have your mourning period, but...murdering his wife in the hopes that'll make him take you back? That's extraordinarily immature, unrealistic, and narcissistic.
Try your very level best to never get into a car with an abductor, even a gunpoint or a knife at your throat. Once you are in that car, your chances of emerging alive diminish exponentially. If they are going to kill you, make them do it OUTSIDE of the car. While you are outside of the car, you still have a chance--however remote--to run in a zigzag pattern, fight, yell, and if you are trained, disarm or disable the assailant. Once in that car--where the door handles may have been removed or where, perhaps, a second assailant is waiting--all bets are off.
Never knew a woman can be this desperate for a man.
I remember watching this case years ago and it still haunts me. I hope that poor baby didn't suffer but how could he not?
If it haunts you simply reading and remembering it from years ago, think how much worse it is for the falsely accused person who's spent the last 24 years languishing in prison. The cops, prosecution, DA's office -- all responsible for her incarceration -- must be totally devoid of conscience and morals. And just as bad are these so-called documentaries (like the one above) which present this case in the most damaging way. They manufacture, exaggerate and speculate scenes (some of which were never even mentioned at her trial), which the viewers then believe, make further comments, which go on and on to the point most of them take it to be the truth. A great deal of evidence and revelations has emerged since her trial, which throws a completely different light on this case.
Why? just Why this is so freakin wrong. Then she is in prison her whole like and her daughter has to grow up knowing what her mother did. It is like Karma. But both who are punished are innocent, the babies!!
SO true.. SO horrible...
Joann was innocent too. 💜
The poor baby died from being outside in the cold. That’s absolutely horrible!
Great channel ty, how can anyone just leave a baby to die?
Its so awful!
Parents have done it for thousands of years actually. Humans are some of the most sadistically cruel creatures created.
@@Queen.AnneBoleyn I wasn't asking for an explanation, obviously I'm aware of that also. It was more of a statement.
@@the-finn It's what's called a rhetorical question.
Love your content, great job.
Ditto ☝️
it's not their content as always, they took it from the fbi files channel.
100%
How could she do that to her and to a baby!? Imagine how terrified an sad they both must have felt before the died :(
I know they say she was the only one involved, but how did he call his mom at 8 pm if the phone lines had been cut? He didn’t notice the phone lines were cut earlier?
There were 2 seperate phone lines. 1 into the kitchen and 1 into the rest of the house
The call was made from INSIDE the house 😟...sorry. That was another story 🤣
Truly amazing detective work
Truly amazing? Only if you're gullible enough to believe this video. There are other documentaries and a book which tell a completely different story. She's the victim of wrongful conviction.
So the person who saw a man pulling a woman and a baby into the bushes just did not think of calling police....thats just crazy ...
Hair could have been dyed or wearing a wig...
This was a time before cell phones and more trusting of others.
Now everyone makes a video to catch a criminal.
Kudos to all the officers and agents.
Never drive to your own death.
The takeaway from this true story is: Dating someone who has a scary ex is a potentially life-threatening behavior.
So she almost got away with it because:
1) "women can't be violent"
2) she gave an alibi that was really easy to disprove but they didn't bother the first time around
3) What do you mean, people dye their hair?? Impossible!!
How could ANYONE murder a poor, little 4 month old baby??? The only thing worse is leaving the baby in the woods, to slowly die from exposure & dehydration (or animals attacking him), while lying in the arms of his dead mother. I can't imagine a more heartless act. I'd rather the baby be suffocated than that! He didn't even get to start life!
How a woman could do this to another woman I will never understand
Well don’t trust another woman just because she’s another woman.
He’s a contractor but lives in a worn out home that’s got a cheap electric stove: He’s misusing cash and he’s spending it on someone else!
Lot of truth in what you say. I've read the book regarding this case, which reveals he had a girlfriend, Donna, with whom he was having an affair all the while his wife was pregnant and after. After the trial, he and his girlfriend went to live in Colorado, where they later married. This video above is grossly biased and fails to show a whole lot which favours Rorrer, fails to reveal the corruption and ineptitude of the investigators and DA's office, and presents various scenes as if that was what actually happened, when in fact they were only theories presented at her trial. This is a disgraceful case of wrongful conviction and the cops and other law officials should be brought to book.
I can't Believe the Narrator said that Joanne ran away to rekindle a old relationship with her abusive ex husband. I DON'T THINK 🤔 SO!
That was awesome thank you for the story Cam.
I thought her husband finding her car was highly suspicious .
The father of the husband found it.
Not only found the car, but was actually IN THE CAR when the cops arrived at the scene.
Mitochondria, The powerhouse of the cellblock.
🇿🇦Heartbreaking storie, I thank you for all your hard work we do appreciate it. Love to see them. 😢🙋♀️👌
Dankie tog!
I am not the only true crime watcher.
@@ertjiesb4158 ha ha ha ha ons is op hoogte!
@@ertjiesb4158 Also, you're not the only moron.... plenty of others on this site with your feeble mentality.
He was a “confirmed bachelor” who changed his ways after… says a lot.
Ummm What are you ... trying... to say? Sincerely asking as your post does not make any point.
I bet he had a lot of crazy Ex’s
@@Wispertile
So what? Lots of people live that lifestyle before eventually settling down.
Sounds like you're implying that this is somehow his fault.
God Bless 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏 Joan , her son and theirs. Blessings to Dad. To loose your family. 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
Imagine telling ur daughter you're in prison due to killing a woman & her bubs coz the woman hung up on you !!!
I’m sure she claims to be innocent to her daughter.
How could she seriously kill the infant? I feel sorry for the family may God continue being with them
it did say it was unclear if it was suffocation or if the baby was left to die, but I agree either way is clear they're dead, very tragic
How will god being with them help...if he cared this wouldn't have happened.
I wonder why they didn’t have her parents in this episode?? I believe I’ve seen all of FBI Files, Forensic Files, Cold Case Files. 49:27
Thank goodness her daughter didn't have to be raised by that lady
Yes for sure.
Wanderer, come Home And you can thank goodness you're in a position to post this comment because you're a good-for-nothing, gullible moron. You know absolutely nothing about this case, but cannot resist mouthing off with your crap. Have you considered it could have been you or any one of your family convicted of this crime? Because that's exactly what happened to an innocent person who's been convicted. Learn ALL the facts about this case if you feel the need to comment. That poor woman has been wrongly convicted, lost her daughter, and her freedom, thanks to crooked cops and the prosecution team at her trial, and then there are people, like you, who post malicious statements about a person who has no means to reply to that trashy nonsense.
OMG!! So Cold Bloodied of the Killer! That's Just Awful! To think how scarred she had to be for her self! But also for her 4 month old Baby! "Do y'all think women can be as Cold As Men?" I didn't until I saw this FBI Story!
J
Alan Spence Despite the guilty verdict of the person now imprisoned, there was absolutely no concrete evidence which justified that verdict..... it was all circumstantial, with a lot of speculation and theories. This documentary above is grossly biased. It does not mention the prosecution failing to reveal witnesses and items of evidence to Rorrer's defence team -- as they're obliged to do.... which would otherwise have thrown a vastly different light on how the trial went.
@@cfreeman106 The husband usually does it .
@Bridget Smith If and when you take the time to acquire ALL the details relevant to this case, you can then enter a sensible comment. Until then, keep your asinine comments to yourself. Whatever information you've got from the video above is biased and totally misleading.
How can a woman be this evil.
may she rot in jail.
Killing a young mother is bad enough but to kill an innocent baby, a baby of the man you once claimed to love! Just pure evil!
It's awful how many women are killed by their partner's ex-girlfriend.
For her not seeing her baby's growing up is a death sentence.
Who ever did that to them should pay dearly
Absolutely 💯 agree with you there vile disgusting so-called human being makes me feel physically sick how any1 could do that to anybody is bad enough but a wee defenseless baby come on now.Definetly needing to be dealt with in the same manner if not worse, but if it was upto me I'd just rid this world of this dirty low-life skum the sooner the better!!.
Mhmm, why didn’t the grandmother call her son when his wife didn’t show up or pick up . That’s strange to me .
I was thinking the same thing.
We didn't have cell phones. So if it was a shopping trip they were taking while Andy was working it's unlikely she would call his job to tell him that.
I had seen this story before but you gave so much detail that I never knew about. Good job!!
Were they able to clear her in the murder of the woman and child in the dressing room? Nothing else was said.
The son of the store owners is the person who killed the woman and child in the dressing room. He had some kind of medieval fantasy and the woman fit the type for him.
@@kellybulfer7621 thank you!
You're welcome!
Yes they mentioned it in the show. The store owner's son did it.
CEKirk The "detail" you refer to is grossly exaggerated and even false. She was wrongly convicted.
Thinking to myself:" What kind of crazy horrible woman commits murder becaues her partner moves on with his life and finds happiness with someone else---"
* Suddenly realizes that men do this ALL THE TIME.
and you got to remember Andy wasn't the marrying kind. said it in the beginning. then he marries Joanne. when patricia calls and gets that news. i can believe it would upset her.
When anyone says they’re not the marrying type it only means they wouldn’t marry you.
The, “she never backs her car in, she hated parking reverse.” 🤔💭🧐💭🤔🧐💭🧐🤔🤨🤨🤨
She is guilty, end of. It is the dark side of the female (and we have many examples of the dark side of the male): if I can't have him nor can you.
minulay29 You talk like you're some sort of expert on human behaviour. I'd like to know how you arrived at your decision about her being guilty? My guess is you've seen this one documentary to which this case refers and you've made up your mind ... and then feel you have to give everyone a lesson in human behaviour! There are quite a few documentaries which show this case to be a wrongful conviction .... as well as a book. Have you watched or read any of the above? The answer to that is obvious, Mr Armchair Psychologist!
Why would you kill a four month old??????????
Bloody awful, killed them both for what?!
exactly??? for what?
Jealousy.
For hate
I thought it said ' As a car jacker he worked long hours ' 🤣
Vengeance.
Pat's in her fifties now, imprisoned in Clinton township, Penn. I wonder if she still has contact with her own daughter??? Evil. 🇬🇧
I pray she doesn’t. I pray her daughter is having a good life and has completely forgotten about her evil mother. So sad. I live near this area. I was only 10 when this was happening but I remember my mother being scared to leave our house for a while. There were all these warnings on our local news telling women not to leave the house with their children and not to let children play outside. Just horrible. Her poor victims.
If you were her daughter would you contact her????
@@crimedogs Absolutely not! I wouldn’t talk to her at all. It takes a special kind of evil person to leave a baby for dead. Especially when you’re pregnant yourself. No real maternal figure could do something like this abhorrent.
Oh goodness, I certainly hope not.
But no she didn't say I'm so sorry I did it .. she said I'm sorry I got caught
If anyone has to be sorry, it should be you apologising for being a complete moron.
Just sickening. What a twisted cruel mind to conceive of and execute such a depraved double murder of innocent young lives.
Brr... don't google her. They have petitions saying she is innocent -_- blows my mind
There are some nuts running around.
@@VincentWilliams007 With you leading the way.
Who kills a baby? It won't end well with whoever did this. Really sad. We have to be careful with whom we let into our lives. Rip momma bear and sweet angel.
This case is so cruel it makes me so happy we have dna science
What!!!,if the police had done the job properly in the first place an checked her alibi in her first interview it would have been solved then.. Sloppy police work more like..
Isn't it sad that there is literally no way for the spouse to not have to be put through this torture that always slows down the investigation in cases where it WASN'T the spouse.
A couple can literally die together & the 1st thing most cops think on their way to a call is Was it a murder suicide?
Yeah I'm aware it happens often. When I was in 1st grade my kindergarten teacher & the baby she was pregnant with my kindergarten year were victims of a murder suicide. I knew before the rest of the school because she lived near me & my dad's cousin was the sheriff. He came down & got my father to come stop traffic & keep the reporters roadside.
They buried her with her baby in her arms.
It's a shame but the way cops always immediately focus on the spouse makes you wonder if they aren't actually just hoping for an easy open shut case.
I have seen a lot of real crime shows where the police are positive the spouse is guilty and when they find out the spouse is not the murderer they are always disappointed. 🙄
She didn't do the crime. The investigators were inept and corrupt, as well as the DA's office. Read the book, Convenient Suspect, by Tammy Mal.
Envy, Jelaousy most of all pride to the extreme. Some people cannot accept that others are happy and successful than them. RIP
And they don’t seem to see,that they could have a happy life,if only they let the past go.They live their lives looking back at the past,and getting bitter,over it.
They never look forward,and make something good of what they have.
God forbid she actually felt bad about what she did already after having her own baby
And then the nerve to apologize to her own baby, whom she obviously cherished, telling her that if she'd known she would be caught, she would never have "brought you into this world." SMDH
So sad for the husband. He lost both his wife and baby.
As because of some crazy a**, evil tempered, jealous unattractive hag.
Andy should have been the one to check Patricia not Joanna.
It's plainly obvious you know very little about this case. You watch the biased documentary above and decide it's the truth, when in fact it's far from that. No argument this was a heinous crime, but if you learned all the details about this case, you will find the wrong person has been imprisoned. Don't just watch one documentary and make a judgement on that..... LEARN ALL THE FACTS.
Cfreeman, You may be too close to this case to see that not all of us are unkind.(Noticed you made several replies. It’s ok to express your feelings.)
When we have a personal connection to any story we know much more about the case/story/song/etc than most interpret from a broadcasted video. Many of us have at least one personal connection to stories on UA-cam.
If you want to tell us more in this forum tag me and I’ll read.
My statement is neutral. No matter what the real truth is about this case I am saddened for the husband who lost his wife and child. No matter who murdered them I feel sad for him - even if he did it. Whomever did it must feel awful now. Let me add, I feel sad for ALL of her loved ones.
@@judybevers5557 That's very good of you to express your sadness ... but I find it remarkable you are sad for the husband ... EVEN IF HE DID IT! as you say. There's a strong argument to suggest that even if he didn't actually do the crime, he may very well have been involved. For one thing, he failed the polygraph examination on TWO OCCASIONS. For another, he was the one who pointed the cops in the direction of Rorrer (who, as I've already stated several times, is innocent of this crime). For another, he was actually IN THE CAR (believed to have been the vehicle used in the crime) when the cops arrived at the scene.... which incidentally, was completely free of any forensic material (no finger-prints, no blood -- which should have been in abundance), no soil inside or outside the car. The copper in attendance actually said... it's as if the vehicle was wiped completely clean! .... curious however, that only six hairs waiting to be found! ... which was the nail in her coffin eventually. But even that is open to suspicion of evidence tampering... Go to Judges for Justice (with her name) and watch. It's nine minutes into the video. Contrary to what you think, I am not related in any way to the convicted lady and have never been acquainted with her. I took an interest in this many years ago when I watch a documentary which seemed to be patently biased and just did not ring true. I subsequently read the book, Convenient Suspect, written by Tammy Mal, which was extensively researched, and that firmly established my opinion of her innocence. I could go on and on with multiple incidents of corruption and ineptitude by the cops but don't want to get too boring. My apologies if I came across as too offensive.
@@judybevers5557 You feel sad for her loved ones! Fair comment. But there is another issue here.... As you have probably surmised, I have no doubt, Rorrer being incarcerated for the last 27 years, was a wrongful conviction... for reasons explained on this site and many others. That being the case, how do you think it must be for a person who has been forcefully estranged from her infant daughter for all those years, no thanks to all the corruption at the investigation and her trial?
why didn't they keep the results on a database for future advancements in DNA?
I don't know which is worse~ that she killed the baby, or that she DIDN'T kill the baby. 😟