Denial: When you hear the beep and you're like: "please no" Anger: triggered by the fact that someone threw that thing Bargaining: Backing up to try to get to second Depression: When you realize it's already too late Acceptance: when the thing hits you
Happiness: when you use a mushroom to outrun the explosion or a super horn to destroy the shell Rage: when you’re about to outrun or destroy the blue shell and a boo steals your power up leaving you defenseless or a lightning bolt strikes you
Lol... I get hit by the blue shell, and no one can even pass me... _Because I was lapped, and the first place player got hit as they went by, but I'm in 12th, so I cannot be passed..._ XD
I once got this: 1. Banana peel sniped 2. Blue shell in the air. 3. Red shell in the air since Lakitu did put me back 4. 2 Green Shells 5. Item box gave me 1 Coin and Banana Peel in 12th
you forgot the part where you CAN'T GET A BANANA PEEL IN 12th and it's almost impossible to get green shelled twice since players in behind won't have a green shell
ENTRO SPACCIO ESCO CIAO are you an idiot...? He could have deluxe, and got the box in 1st. Green shells can be thrown backwards, and bounce. Think before you comment, don't be an ass, and I have been playing since DS, I would know.
SubDaComment i was just gonna say that, but you said it for me, thx, you saved 20'mins of my time on reply to a comment that is just dumb, and pointless, thx man XD
Frisky Frisk This happened to me in MKWii Aggressive Mode: Blueshelled Red shell comes Tries to get a banana Gets a Fake item box. Red shelled Blueshelled again Get's fucked by a star Rage quits.
1. 2nd place is close enough to banana snipe 2. Probably pulls ahead enough to where the blue shell would only hit them on impact. 3. That would lose 3 - 4 places which is prime for red shells, plus boxes could have been picked up previously to place changes 4. Same as above, but more likely to get slightly better items than green shells, or they were already thrown. 5. Banana + coin can happen. The box was hit before the green shell hit, really _really_ bad luck, or the game booped out
But there's still a problem - if you're all the way back in 12th place and you hit an item block - the Blue Shell is the LAST thing you want to see, because it DOESN'T HELP YOU CATCH UP. You want a Bullet Bill or a King Mushroom or something. The Blue Shell doesn't actually help the player who gets it - it just annoys the person in 1st (and maybe 2nd) place. I appreciate it's good in a general game balance sense, but it's still frustrating for everyone involved - both the user and the victim.
I have two reasons that's not totally true. First, if you're in last, you're not actually that likely to get a Blue Shell compared to the Bullet Bill or King Mushroom. Second, the Blue Shell doesn't just hit the first few players, it travels along the track and can hits everyone in its path.
Completely agreed. Came into the comments to say just that, only to find someone's beaten me to it. ^_^ Although I will admit that JediYoshi has a decent point in that the most recent iteration, Blue Shells are now ground-based again, allowing them to hit other players along the way, but the lack of aiming makes it only about as useful as a green shell for the purposes of catching up. Which is to say, not very.
Yknow sometimes in mario kart you get an item you weren't looking for. That's not exclusive to 12th place. And the video explained why blue shells cant be given to higher places. It's true, it's frustrating, but I don't know of an alternative that would either make the game unbalanced, or stupid dull. :D
That's just punishing the player for being good. Why ruin the player's experience just because they're good at the game? It makes zero sense! It's an affront to the integrity of the game!
Tip4U: Play Forza, Asseto Corsa, Gran Turismo, Codies F1 Games, etc. aka games that are MEANT to reward the player's skill. Mario Kart is about 65% luck and 35% skill.
Double dash was a gamecube release of mariocart where you could unlock various items through beating first place on races.Its really fun and i still play it today.
+KKTrain Springer Exactly. I get hit with a blue shell, then eight or nine other shells. Suddenly, I'm in dead last. And still getting pelted by shells for no fucking reason. Plus, the items that can counter the Blue Shell, even with massive skill involved, are almost impossible to get in first place, and when I do have an object that can destroy a Blue Shell, in comes the Lightning, which fries said object. The game literally does not allow me to have a defense against Blue Shells except being so far ahead that it hardly affects me. Not to mention the fact that the Lightning does a better job of being an equalizer anyways. I'd like to not have to use the Super Horn as a Blue Shell Shield and just use it as a normal weapon. I had a really cool clip early on where I spin boosted off of someone and then used the super horn to kick their asses. I called it a Flip-Kick.
It's a bit different in some of the other mario kart games. In wii, you had to hit a boost during the frames that the shell started to dip (5-70 window), which honestly was hella difficult in maps without a lot of boosters
Skill is relative to the game. In semi-luck based games, like Mario Kart, the real skill is to know how to deal with the luck, good or bad. Yes, sometimes you can't fully recover from some terrible luck, but you can lessen its effect, if you have enough skill. This is why the blue shell is so great, even though I hate it when it locks onto me. It takes skill to lessen the blue shell's effect. In fact, if you're skilled enough, you can even get it to benefit you.
+Fried Keenan However, in DS and 7, it shows EXACTLY who has obtained the blue shell at any given moment on the touch screen map, and you can use that knowledge for sabotage.
+Fried Keenan Except that the instances where a potential blue shell can/should be played around are so rare that they really don't count for much. Not even a pro player can play around the randomness of item drops, and no one SHOULD give up their banana peel or try to race in first while holding onto a mushroom just for that little bit of insurance against that specific item. After all, it's far more likely that you'll be subjected to 1 or 3 red shells in the higher positions, so giving up your own shell or banana peel to try to get a (very rare) boombox makes no sense and actually makes for a worse play. Especially since the addition of coins has made it far harder for 1st place players to secure some protection.
Well, if you play SimRacing or take on to gokarts in real life, gap to leader or gap to pack leader is all that matters really. However I think either the lightning (present since SNES) or the bullet (since N64) are far better options for puling someone from dead last, as they both keep the spread amongst others. . As for delaying those too far ahead, in SNES I used to be hit by backmarkers when lapping NPCs and target by track hazards when playing versus. So I don't see how that was a problem for any review. The only thing justifying blue shells is that they made laps shorter changing races from 5 laps to 3, giving everyone a lot of empty space to feel alone and brking the very balance they had perfectly on point on the debut title
tbh, take the blue shell as a compliment, It goes after you cause you're in first, It is basically telling you that you're so far ahead it has to explode you into oblivion! thats how hardcore you are.
You may feel better because the blue shell is a reminder that you were in first place, but the score at the end of the game will remind you that you didn't get first place and no one cares that you ever were in first.
Except most of the time when I get hit with with a blue shell it’s during the third lap right before I pass the finish line and I get passed by four people
You could argue that its a necessary evil in multiplayer mode, but in GP mode? It's nothing more than a frustrating and luck based way to lose to the AI, who already cheat.
A simple fix to this problem would simply be to make it possible to choose what items are available in the item pool in a race (like you can choose what items are available in a match of Smash Bros). That way, tournament players can completely disable the blue shell or whatever item they don't like. This would be awesome for tournament and casual players, since you could simply choose if you want the full, standard experience or your own special way of playing the game. Easiest and best fix imo.
Only the Arcade GP sub-series has pre-race item selection. None of the main series console or handheld games have it. EDIT: At least, not in the way Arcade GP does. There are item presets in both 7 and 8.
in mario karts wii and 7, you can do local multiplayer and change what item sets appear (light, medium, heavy, offensive, defensive). some of those presets dont have the blue shell in them. for 8 you can do the same thing online through custom races/tournaments by setting special conditions. (i remember GXplain setting rules to be bob-ombs only once)
You can actually get rid of a blue shell if your in first place as long as you have a GREEN shell. Since the blue shell drops right in front of you and explodes immediately as it hits the ground, you can time a green shell throw in front of you which can actually destroy the blue shell. It takes a lot of timing and precision to do this.
The game cube back playing double dash, using the triple drift also worked if I remember correctly, might have to bust out the console and check at some point, think I still got DD.
I think the blue shell is excellent for multi-player, but in far too many of the games it is a problem in single player. It doesn't enhance the challenge or improve the fun when you're dominating an entire race, then get hit with two blue shells, a lightning bolt, run over, a red shell, and then a random bump from a banana peel taking your 20 second lead into a last place finish.
Not only that, but I've noticed the AI in singleplayer can be quite poor, that I've managed to catch up to the last place player in first. Multiplayer is okay with the blue shell, singleplayer is just bleh. It's too easy to dominate. If it wasn't easy, I'd accept the blue shell.
The problem with single player is that AI gives a majority of skill and talent to a single NPC for that entire cup, and that NPC generally wins (if all NPCs had equal skill it would be bedlam and easier for you to win) so the issue with blue shells on single player is all it does it knock you out from 1st and allow the 2nd place NPC (the usual winner against other NPCs) in first place.
If you're in 12th, chances are you're not gonna get to 1st, 3rd, or even 5th. It's hardly a catch up mechanic, and more of a "Screw the best player" mechanic.
+BadgerCheese94 That's not to your advantage. You'll lose the chance to get other great items in the meantime (since you're near last), i.e. bullet bill, golden mushroom, star, etc.
+sora8711 while I agree that this is most definitely the case in some of the earlier Mario Kart games, MK8 fixes this problem SOMEWHAT by making the blue shell go along the course rather than through the air, so it has at least a chance of hitting all players infront of you the problem with MK8 is that it's next to impossible to get out of the pack if you're in there, meaning unless there is no player ahead of the pack, first place is almost always the safest place in the game
I strongly disagree that its not fun to be way out in front of a race, I get increasingly gleeful every moment the lead is mine, especially if I'm have an oddly mistake free run . I can't be the only one
The problem is that, when playing against less skilled players, that situation will probably occur most of the times and that leads to boredom for all players.
Something you overlooked: It gives the losing players a sense of agency. If you're half a lap behind in 8th place, you don't feel like you have an impact on the race. But if you get a blue shell, for a few glorious seconds, you know that YOU are now having an impact, that YOU have just affected the frontlines of the race and might have bought yourself a slight minuscule chance of catching up. Personally, I've always loved the blue shell (probably because I'm rarely ever in first place), even when I get hit with it. It gives you that sense that even if you're in the lead, you can't relax, because at any second you'll hear a "whihuuuuhiiiiiiiii....-BOOOM" and it can REALLY mess you up if it hits you at the wrong time (like midjump. XD)
Apothecary2 Only in DD, DS, and Wii. In the other games, it hits other racers on its way, not just the person in lead. Which is AWESOME for whoever used it.
Anton Quirrel It is rare for it to hit someone who isn't in first in 8 because it is on a set path and incredibly easy to dodge. 64 did have the only real tolerable blue shell.
cwjakesteel my DS for most of the time I used it, had non working bumper buttons so I could never drift. a year ago I managed to half fix it but it is unpredictable when it will work and drifting is still extremely difficult to get working when I want it to as it could stop working 5 seconds after I last pressed it and worked.
It's a little disappointing the video didn't mention the lower screen on the DS and 3DS versions and how that changes the play dynamics by adding extra information which is available to all players. Specifically, it allows players to see what items everyone is holding, and gives them real warning when a mega-item like the Blue Shell or Lightning Bolt is in play. That expands the tactical options the players in the lead have to try to deal with the problem. In turn, this creates a meta-game situation, where the Blue Shell entering play changes everything, at least while it's around. For example, this happens a lot in MK7 multiplayer on 3DS: #8 gets a Blue Shell, but doesn't immediately fire. #1 spots it, and hits the brakes. Then #2 & 3 hit the brakes. Sometimes, the entire pack follows suit because no one wants to get smacked by the hot potato. So by NOT firing the shell, #8 cruises to #1 while still holding onto his insta-kill item. In effect this creates a "mini-boss" situation, an additional challenge other players have to somehow overcome if they're to stop #8 from stealing the race in disgustingly brazen fashion. (Seriously, the Game Theory level stuff going on at this point is insane, and ALWAYS makes for interesting races.)
+Etsyturtle 2 But only for player(s) with the WiiU tablet, which is actually VERY problematic from a game theory standpoint. They get a huge knowledge advantage, with no real trade-off. It's OK for online multiplayer, but borderline unfair for couch play. OTOH, the DS versions are completely fair.
its not impossible. just like previous mario karts, the blue shell dodge has always been an elite level technique because it requires near perfect timing to pull off.
But the blue shell doesn’t help the person who uses it, whenever I get it I’m annoyed because in the end it’s just going to help whoever is in second. I think for the most part, items found in the back of the pack should be power ups, because you get to catch up to the pack instead of bringing people already trailing even further backwards. Because remember, The people that the people in last need to catch up to are the people that are ALMOST in last, not first. The lighting is a much better item in my opinion, because it’s varying effect allows the pack to condense into the hectic battles that we love. But the blue shell doesn’t do that, the only people it effects is the person in first, who is now as far back as 5th to 7th literally because they were winning, and the guy in second, who is now in first because some person he hasn’t even seen this race took out the guy in front of him. Lets look at your example about why the blue shell isn’t given to those in second. Yes! You’re right that it would allow the person in second to get way out in first for themselves, but the same thing happens when the blue shell is used as intended, because it doesn’t matter where the blue shell comes from, it’s going to slow first place down by about 5 seconds and give second place the lead. The only difference is that the person in second didn’t even have to fire the shell to get into first.
The lightning is when the racers are close while the blue shell is for one someone is very far ahead. The reason it's only given to people to who'm it is useless is to make sure the OP item can't be used strategically to create a too great lead for another player. The blue shell effectively is completely random because of this. In truth they could have easily made it a totally random thing but since messing with each other is such a big part of MC they figured it was more fun if a player was the one who shot it.
But since when does a blue shell helps the guy who gets it? it slows down the lead while your close oponents will have bill balls, stars and super mushrooms! And the blue shell is too brutal in most situations! it can anhilate all your work and make your lose the race for no reason.
***** maybe, but the blue shell does nothing close to you. What's the point is trying to slow the first karts when you already have trouble with the last ones?
***** That's not what I meant: a player in the last position doesn't get any help from the blue shell when the other racers does with other powerups. I remember getting pretty far behind after taking a combo of all the other's powerups when I was only 4th or so. That happens a lot in multiplayer with friends and getting a bad powerup means racing alone behind the well armed group of racers before until the next item boxes.
+Setjo91 while i hate it, and i mean HATE the blue shell (i consider my self a Decent player, always have to earn those 3 stars) i have to admit it does make the game more interesting. And, i'm sorry, there are times when i've been just sucking that when a blue shell comes up that i release it at the right time to hit several carts in front of me. I won the race thanks to that shell as the PC was freaking WAY ahead and there would have been no way for me to catch up in time.
There's something that's bothering me; Mario Kart has items in regular gameplay to allow for all kinds of heart-beating craziness at what's gonna appear next, yet whenever anyone wants a casual game of Smash Bros., the majority of players argue that the items are to be IMMEDIATELY turned off and the only stage played on is Final Destination... why? Shouldn't what Daniel said here apply to both game series since they're both centred around cartoony competition? Isn't a no-item FD match in Smash Bros. the equivalent of having no items in Mario Kart and only playing on Baby Park or a figure-eight course that has no hazards? Who'd buy Mario Kart just to play like that way? If you wanna play a tournament that focusses on how well-trained at playing as their favourite character someone is, I understand, I get that much, but turning the items off and playing on the most basic flat stage when it's just you and a couple of friends wanting to have a laugh? I just don't see the point Even back when the Game Grumps played Brawl, Arin and Jon turned the items off and only played Final Destination, even though having a game where some crazy stuff happens gets some awesome reactions; imagine how they'd have reacted if they'd played on New Pork City and Arin tried chasing Jon down with a Poké Ball or a Final Smash, I picture it being like Arin and Danny's fight over the crown in The Amazing Frog? and that had me in tears, I don't think I've laughed so hard before then And nobody give me the "It's the way Smash Bros. is supposed to be played" excuse, that's bullshit; if it was meant to be played without any items and only on a flat platform-less stage, why would Nintendo intentionally add all manner of crazy items that are set to ON and multiple stages with varying layouts that are set to RANDOM as defaults into all three (soon four) games? Why go through all that hassle just for players to ignore what makes a light-hearted fighting game exciting and play like they're trying to win a gold medal at the Olympics? If you want to play a fighting game without items and on a evenly-level playing field that's purely a test of skill, there's a huge list of them out there; Tekken, Mortal Kombat, Street Fighter, Marvel VS Capcom and Skullgirls to name a few You want to play tourney-style, that's fine, that's your choice; as for me, all items are on and set to appear frequently, I'm maining as DK against and the stage randomiser has selected Mt. Coronet, IT'S PARTY TIME!!!
The requirement to have items on means that there could never be a competitive community built around their absence, which happened very quickly in Super Smash Bros., because it's a fighting game. There's also an issue of Smash having a very large demographic that considers itself one of the players without really understanding what that means, which I would personally attribute to the smaller but more dedicated playerbase.
I think the reasoning behind it is that, even if you are playing for fun, fighting games in general are a more 'hardcore gamer' genre. Players want it to come down to skill rather than be defeated by a RNG. My friends and I typically allow smash balls and occasionally pokeballs. Smash ball are big equalizers akin to a hyper combo in Street Fighter; Massive damage that can bring you back or secure a kill, but are very infrequently available and can be played around. Pokeballs, while more common, rarely have true killing potential outside of legendaries and can be counteracted by catching the ball or be played around with minimal effort. A lot of the other items, though, such as the hammers, metal block, stars, and especially assist trophies make it too unbalanced and can make something that was at first a very close fight suddenly be horribly one-sided. The same thing goes for stages with high damage/insta-kill hazards on them. When you get killed by one of them, you're losing to the game rather than to your opponent. I personally have few issues with items. If someone wants to have them on go for it. If i'm playing against someone a bit newer, they can level the playing field. (I just handicap myself and don't use too many). But typically when I'm playing Smash, it's because my two or three friends all want to play a more competitive game all together. Smash Bros plays differently from other fighters to accommodate that, but the 'Final Destination, No Items' mode lets it be more skill-based.
I think the two games are hard to compare. Yes they're both crazy and zany at times with all the items on and the ridiculous courses/boards/levels/whathaveyou but at the end of the day the two are different games entirely, different genres altogether! Besides I disagree that the most fun way to play smash is like you proposed. I play with friends all the time and we tend to turn the item drop rate up to max most of the time! Also there's the point of in super smash there is no way to control who gets the items which are OP like there is in mario kart. If anything the short time you get alone on the stage when you've just beat someone gives you the time to go out of your way and grab an OP item, snowballing your lead
Well, I can't say much for the people who play casual and do that (heck, a large number of the competitive players don't even like Final Destination), but I can shed some light on the item issue. Items in Mario Kart have always been dictated by item boxes put in predictable places on the track. You may not always know the "what" coming from opponents, but you can at least anticipate the "when". Smash Bros. forgoes this by having all elements randomized. Even if you knew where the item was going to drop (some players have been able to do that through careful observation and a bit of luck) you still don't know what item is coming when since the interval for item drops is random as well. Some amount of randomization may not impact play overall, but too much can cause severe consistency issues for more skilled players, taking away from the competitive aspect. If the players you are facing off against consider themselves "good", they most likely don't want a large number of wins taken away by the random item element. Final Destination though? No idea.
If you want to draw a parallel between the treatment of items in Smash Bros and the treatment of items in Mario Kart, there's one part missing from your analysis. Lead-based item distribution. In Smash Bros, the person in first can get a star just as easily as the person in last. In fact, if you are outright dominating me, you could then combo it up with a legendary pokemon, a star, and a gold hammer. The second two items could have been grabbed while I was being comboed by, or was trying to avoid, the first item. So this ends up working against the design reasoning laid out in this video. It doesn't really help keep the pack together, in terms of leads and losses. It CAN, but it can also create massive runaway victories too. And it does this truly at random. If a star spawns over my head and bounces INTO me, there was no player-driven decision involved in that event. If items were distributed based on leads and losses, one might be able to make an argument for their retention in tournament play. Then you'd have action where the guy leading by two stocks should really look out, because player 2 is about to try and utilize his invulnerability. Can he run it out? Will the lead's gap close? Who knows~ Until then, I think the fact that the items can randomly favor the winner or the loser, and doesn't serve an equalization purpose, it won't really work out in tournament play.
Double A the thing is, you didnt just get the win handed to you, you EARNED your spot in front, so it feels good that your work got you to where you are in that race
@FantaKuat Well, even chess and golf can have handycaps when players of vastly different skills are playing with one another. That's what the blue shell is all about. I understand if the race is close and you feel robbed (or you're trying to get that precious 3-star rating on the gran prix), but even I think a race is more interesting if something keeps my lead from being too secure. (although I do appreciate the Boom Box...)
So that makes sense, but then why does it show up in singleplayer? The bots don't care if they're getting stomped because they're bots! They don't _have_ fun. At that point, it only serves to make your attempts to unlock content by playing the game more artificially difficult by forcing you backwards sometimes, unless you're good enough to avoid it and lucky enough to get the items you need to do that.
Lithium It makes your experience more varied. It's the game's way keeping you on your toes so it doesn't become boring when you're just unlocking stuff
Jair Benitez or in other words, rng. I kinda hate RNG in games that are more or less skill intensive. I don't like the fact that some dingus in like 10th place can affect the outcome of the race without having a chance of actually winning.
Well, what difference does it make to the guy far back in last place that the guy all the way in front got stopped? The racers right behind them will just take first place. As for challenge... What's challenging about getting a "you fail" bomb dropped right on top of you, with the only ways to avoid it involving extremely precise timing and specific items, which I doubt are even intended to be used to avoid the blue shell. Singleplayer is supposed to be accessible just like the multiplayer, so why is a feature intended to equalize multiplayer at the expense of skill there at all? The bots don't have brains, they have bytes. So they don't care about fun- they don't 'care' at all! The video already made note of how the blue shell isn't real difficulty, anyway.
thats what i saying. your experience in racing shouldnt be varied. your finish place outcome definitely shouldnt be determined by rng. racing is tiered. if youre a good enough racer to be getting constant 1st places leaving people in the dust, thats EXACTLY what you worked hard to do. you WANT to dominate. youre showing players that you race in your own skill tier and they cant compete. thats what high skilled racers do. it gives others the incentives and motivation to actually get better at the game and improve their own skill if they actually want to win. you want the difficulty challenge of actual skilled racers, not the challenge of dealing with shitty player rng. the blue shell isnt helpful in any way. since the mechanic of the blue shell is only given to players really far behind. and 99% of the time, they arent even skilled enough to win the race anyway, so it serves no purpose since it doesnt close the skill gap. its just a dick move by someone who cant race against someone who can. thats not a skill equalizer, especially since it only targets the person in first (minus the blast radius for those too close nearby). it doesnt make the user any better at the game, nor does it make the receiver any worse at playing, only frustrated that some douche got it. if you arent good enough to win, then either skill up and get better or give up and find something else to play.
+TheWireWare A large amount of the Mario Kart games have 8 players per race, and 1/8 is 12.5%, so he's saying only the people in first hate the blue shell in a clever math-y way.
***** Idk I love them no matter what. Only time it would irritate me is if I'm trying to beat the cups to unlock something. In general though, I love the blue shell cuz just like in Mario Party, chaos is a huge part of what makes Mario Kart fun.
Geometry Dash Vicente done it before on mariokart 64, got a blue shell while in first by using the big ramp over the large boulder in peach's beach i believe. Wanted to see what it did when you're in first. Ended up throwing it a few feet in front of me before it whirled back and hit me lol
One feature that I'd like to see Nintendo add to the Blue Shell and Lightning Bolt is an early-warning sound that plays as soon as they're used. For the blue shell, this could be a sound effect, like a sonic boom, that can be heard from all over the map. For the lightning bolt, this could be 1 or 2 seconds of audio and/or visual effects (Thunder, lightning sparks, etc.) before the players are shrunk down.
Bluetoad Having it visually appear on the map doesn't help by much, since you need to keep your eyes on the road at all times, and the blue shell isn't all that visible, especially when mixed in with the character portraits that are also on the map. We primarily detect when red shells are about to hit us from behind, or when blue shells are close by, mostly because we can hear warning signs, as we continue to keep our eyes on the road.
ShadowWolfTJC Yeah that's true, but it's at least something. I tend to glance at the map while on straightaways, so it can be helpful for me at least. Well, at least Blue Shells are extremely uncommon in MK8, and I like the new item distribution system in MK8 as well.
ShadowWolfTJC on MK DS i used to check the items veing used on the bottom screen. this way i can keep track of where im going on the minimap and see if any blue shells are coming my way. (dont know about MK7 or 8)
i feel like the blue shell should be like a red shell that penetrates 5 racers in front of you instead of barreling towards first place and not helping at all.
+quiwye If you're in 12th, the blue shell doesn't help, it just changes the first four positions. It closes the gap between who got hit by the shell and the one who threw it, not necessarily 1st and last.
This is usually my experience with Mario Cart: I get the god level item I've been waiting for, and I am just about to use the Golden Shroom, when suddenly, I can't see as a squid blocks my view, and as it ink's me, I get zapped by lightning, losing my item, blue shell hits me, and then the second place player rubs in the salt with a red shell as they zoom by... FFS!!!
i was playing Mario Kart 64 on the wii and i was on Toads Turnpike and i was in first. i got a blue shell and dicided to see what would happen. i shot it, and it flew about 10 feet then turned around and naild me.
Yup, happens the same way on N64 :p Actually, if you shoot it while you don't move, it won't return to you and will run through all the race before attacking him from behind.
You know I still wish the blue shell still hones in on EVERYONE (between the user and the first place player) in the race as it reaches the first place player because right then and there allows the lower rank player a better chance to catch up to everyone rather than unintentionally helping only the second and third players behind the first. Though I like how they at least made it possible or more manageable by having it move through the middle of the course instead of honing in on everyone but I still prefer it would still try to attack other players as it reaches the first player. What I really hope for a good compromise is that the blue shell has it's own hidden danger zone as it travels through the middle of the track and immediately attack other players that are unfortunately in that danger zone. The zone doesn't need to be too wide in the way that the only way to avoid is to stick really close to the wall but just wide enough in the middle that doesn't make players lose too much of their speed when trying to avoid it.
+Guilmonhero weird I thought it always went through the middle of the track, even in MK64, cause I was in second place and managed to avoid being hit by it, I know for certain that it flew over the racers in double dash(GCN) and Wii, however I've never played the handheld MK's, so it might have homed in on all racers in those games.
***** Nope, it never did on any of the other games and the current Blue Shell came from the 7th. Except... I only played the 3DS ones and not the GBA....
I believe when the blue shell was first made the game couldn't single out the first person for the blue shell to attack so it just rammed into everyone, then again I could be wrong
+JNΛEJNΛΣ GΛMING Actually I can see what he's talking about just fine. Guil means something akin to that warp thing in CTR (Crash Team Racing) to whenever you have 10 wampa fruits that thing will literally go after EVERYONE IN FRONT OF YOU!
Jair Benitez I don't care how they feel. As someone who is competing against them, I shouldn't feel bad if someone loses. If someone beats me, I'm not going to blame them for being happy.
Bobby Patton Just remember, the blue shell goes after the player in first place. That means, if you throw a blue shell and you're in first, it will target you. I always make that mistake sometimes too.
Ok, here's my redesign of the blue shell: Rather than make you stop dead in your tracks, have it knock you into the air for a second but MAINTAIN your momentum until you land and tumble a few times. This way it has all the advantages of slowing down the player but the effect is delayed by a second or two, so if you get hammered right before the finish line you can still sail over and win. It's still effectively the same design but a) it FEELS less unfair because victory can't be snatched away RIGHT at the line, and b) winning the race by getting pummeled and sailing through the air would feel awesome! There are a few potential drawbacks to this design though, only one of which I can think of a solution to right now: 1) If you get hit while taking a corner you'll get blown into the air and land out of bounds, making your situation WORSE than if you'd been hit and stopped dead. I think the solution to this is to change the hang time based on the angle between the player and the shell (or how much the kart is turning). If you get hit while sliding around a corner you'll simply flip over and tumble on the spot, but if you get hit from behind whilst driving straight you'll sail into the air and only tumble when you land. 2) If you get hit just before a pit you'll sail over the ramp and fall in. This is a problem, but with the quick resets in MK8 and the fact the other shells already do this it's probably a negligible downside.
Rithmy If it happens "earlier" then it's not "right at the line" is it? I liken the sensation to something like a prize wheel. If it stopped dead and the prize was immediately revealed, whatever. But that suspense of "Come on, come on, just a little bit more!" is fun. Seeing the wheel slow down, trying to will it over that final last peg, not immediately knowing whether or not it'll make it... that's FUN! When your kart gets hit and you go from full speed to a static stop right before the line, that's not fun. That sucks. Getting blown up and TUMBLING toward the line, even if you don't quite make it and end up coming to a stop right before the line, that's still FUN. It changes the situation from "Fuck, I lose" to "Fuck! Come on baby, keep rolling! Go go GOOOOaaaaaand fuck, I lose". Get it now?
NoeLPZC Prize wheels are a completly other kind of entertainment. They are based on pure luck. Anticipation builds up some sort of hope there. This only works because you cant rly calculate when it will slowdown. In Mario Kart you get fun by winning or "hurting" others playfully. Anyways. The system doesnt work here well because Its much easier to calculate how far you will roll after being hit. Its the same result. Also you will feel too safe even before you reached the finish line becuase now, not even blue shells can stop you. Btw whats about greenshells? you can do the same with them.
Rithmy"In Mario Kart you get fun by winning or "hurting" others playfully." That's an incredible oversimplification of Mario Kart's mechanics. You're clearly not a game designer. "The system doesnt work here well because Its much easier to calculate how far you will roll after being hit. Its the same result." That would depend entirely on how it was implemented. You can't make that statement based on my design alone. "Also you will feel too safe even before you reached the finish line becuase now, not even blue shells can stop you." Red and green shells can stop you, but even if they didn't exist it wouldn't matter. As a game mechanic, the blue shell's purpose is keep the racers in a close pack because it leads to more dynamic gameplay. Only racers at the back of the pack get access to it - it's not a weapon for the guy in second place. Getting hit with a blue shell right before the line is a *flaw* in the game's design. When that happens the shell isn't serving its purpose, it's just screwing first place out of a deserved win. "Btw whats about greenshells? you can do the same with them." Green shells work in a slightly different way - they slow the player down immediately. They're a good weapon for a player in second place to snatch the win. This proposed new blue shell wouldn't - you'd have two or three seconds of air time before you lost any speed. Not that much, but long enough that if you made it to the final straight in first place a blue shell couldn't fuck you over (but red and green shells still could). This removes the ability for last place to determine the winner of the race, instead having it be decided by the top 2-3 players.
I still prefer sonic allstar's solution in the form of the swarm item, the swarm is always avoidable regardless of the situation but requires player to swerve around the swarm's hitbox; consequently sacrificing the optimal path, the swarm also effects all racers near the front of the pack regardless of position in the race and is available to more than just the last place racers, in turn giving the player who fired the swarm a direct reward for using it efficiently (as players are invulnerable to their own swarms). What's more is the swarm will be most effective in tight areas of the track in turn giving player agency to the whoever is holding the swarm; asking the question of how to use the swarm effectively rather than just having it appear as the result of a random number generator under the game's hood.
It's pretty easy to avoid even in tight quarters, and difficult to place where you really want it. It tries to accomplish what the Blue Shell does, but doesn't. It's also much harder to hit people with other items in that game, both guided and unguided, so the player in first is pretty much impervious, and the real fighting in the race is for second place. Sonic&All-stars racing is definitely a good series when taken on it's own, but it just makes me feel like playing Mario Kart again.
I didn't even get 15 seconds into this video and I had to stop for a moment, because the slow-motion replay just emphasizes how completely beautiful this game is, in a way that sometimes can't be appreciated at breakneck speeds.
I love the implementation of the Blue Shell equivalent in Blur - the racing game infamous for its ad campaign mocking Mario Kart. Behind its antagonising first impression, the game was actually pretty well designed. Its version of the Blue Shell caused a barrage of random electrical zones to spawn in front of the #1 racer, blocking off half the track. The storm lasted about 8 seconds and driving through a zone massively slowed you down. Once the #1 had passed a zone, it would dissipate after a random delay. This was a huge improvement over the Blue Shell because: 1/ it didn't just screw over the #1 to the benefit of the #2 but impeded everyone near pole position, and the closer they got to the lead, the worse it got. This meant there were no undeserved gains or losses: you could close the gap with the leader, but actually overtaking him required doing a better job at weathering the same storm. It effectively compressed the field, achieving its goal of preventing unsurmountable leads without picking on one driver in particular. 2/ you could counter it by being a skilled driver. Hitting a zone would screw you hard, but you could technically avoid them and only lose a small amount of time. The item always had SOME impact, but if you were a good driver and the #2 wasn't, you'd actually increase your lead. Ahh... the asshole game outdesigned cute and cuddly Nintendo. World ain't fair sometimes.
maybe the blue shell could be more effective and less annoying if it was based on distance instead of position, so it could appear more often when the first place player has too much of a lead instead of just because he's in first
look at what Sonic Allstar Racing and blur did. The Bees and the lightning bolts. They set up traps, you need to drive around. Slowing the players in front down, but high skilled players can drift around.
The blue shell appears more often for players who are in the back of the pack but not in last or second to last place, it can appear for those players as well but it's designed as a way to slow the first player down. Of course, the first place player has ways to avoid it, especially if he's way out in front and can afford to hold onto a mushroom or anything else that can be used to dodge it. As shown, there is counterplay to the blue shell (Simply reversing and becoming second is enough to not have it target you, and then you can retake your lead.) while regardless it helps the players in the back catch up by disrupting the flow of the game and usually starting an item war between those in the first couple of positions who want to take advantage of the blue shell to gain a lead themselves.
***** Unfortunately, the Sky Tigers had the opposite effect of what was intended--after a few weeks, people skilled enough to be in 1st could effortlessly dodge them while players further behind who weren't quite as good got caught up in them and got slowed down. Because the Sky Tigers were stationary obstacles that show up in fixed patterns and take a long, LONG time to go away, they wound up strengthening the leads. That, and they're near useless when in a plane in most courses as you could fly around the whole swarm, unless you could time it such that you placed them in narrow passageways like the tunnel in Rogue's Landing or Wizeman's corridor in Dream Valley.
***** I still prefer the concept. But yeah, developers need to improve it. Unfortunately blur was abbandoned, because ActiBizz closed Bizarre Creation (Blackest Night for Racing Games) and Sonic All Stars was just a job for Sumo, not a long term investment. I don't expect Mario Kart to adapt the concept. Seems like the Blue Shell has been improved since Mario Kart Wii.
***** Well, that was because blur didn't sell as well as Activision had hoped (though this can be an excuse no matter how well a game sells--Epic Mickey sold millions and Disney was not satisfied). The best first-place seeker I've seen is the Ghost in Snowboard Kids and Snowboard Kids 2. What it would do is head to the opponent with the highest position, then halve that player's speed for about 12 seconds. There is no impact--his or her speed simply slows down until the Ghost goes away. This allows the player afflicted with a Ghost to stay in full control, only now they have a speed disadvantage.
I hate the Blue Shell... I'm that player that is usually in first, or in the fight for first, so I get hit by it a lot. A good way to make it less frustrating would be if it couldn't happen during the last lap since then is when there is no counter play for the player in first. You get hit in the last stretch of the track, you can't win. I would like to add that while being first and uncontested is not boring at all. There are elements to take into account, like keeping an item in the back to stay protected from Red Shells, which also adds another element in and of itself: I have an item protecting me and I'm approaching the item boxes. Do I drop my item as a trap for the player in 2nd and as an attempt to get a Super Horn or Mushroom? risking running unprotected if I don't get anything useful? or do I keep my item and pass on the chance of the Super Horn? The problem of the palyer in 1st getting a big lead actually comes from the player in 3rd. If the player in 3rd hits the player in 2nd, taking its position, it means that the player in 1st got a bigger lead and now who was in 2nd before is going to take revenge on that player, further putting both farther away from the player in 1st. Thats why its important to no hit whoever is in 2nd if you are in 3rd, at least not till the race is about to end, it doesn't help you win the race, at all
I fucking hate the blue shell! Once in 150cc Mushroom gorge, I was jumping across the mushrooms. And there was a blue shell, and I fell down! I went from 1st to 5th! FUCK YOU BLUE SHELL!
Also why I find being 2nd the hardest place to be. You're doing well enough to only get crappy single items (triplets are rare) but you have to attack 1st AND defend against 3rd. Most of the time you lack the tools to do so and end up falling behind while 1st increases their lead.
"Being way ahead is almost as bad as being way behind" -Said no one who enjoys winning. Who doesn't enjoy stomping their opponent(s) from time to time? I for one enjoy going undefeated or obliterating my enemy from time to time.
If you are having fun with winning then you are having a balanced meal of wins and defeats. Winning too much gets really boring after a while. Try to play a Roblox pvp game and try as hard as you can. You'll win 100% of the time and it will get really boring.
Actually, the NOOT NOOT horn is the best item. It can make the person who threw the blue shell feel stupid. Its powerful NOOT NOOT attack can destroy anything.
By "new to lifr" he meant "have a life outside the internet". I had to look it up too, apparently it's a reference to this meme: knowyourmeme.com/memes/noot-noot
Good points, but I disagree. First of all, the Blue Shell isn't at all helpful to the person pulling it. How does the person *way* out in front being killed help them in any way? It doesn't advance their position at all. I can assure you that they'd much rather have a Star or a Bullet Bill to get away instead. Second... who said frontrunning wasn't fun? I don't know about you, but I think winning feels good. Other players are almost always good enough to stay close, too. As for avoiding the Blue Shell, I can count the amount of times I"ve gotten a Super Horn in first on two hands in 650 hours of gameplay. If you can't keep up... get better at the game. And, to wrap it all up... the Blue Shell is a redundant link. People in second or third place get triple red shells all the time, which can close the gap just as well.
+Elf Monster Not quite, especially if the 3rd, 4th or 5th place people are close and maintaining fast speeds. You're still going to be behind all of them anyhow, and your obvious lack of ability is your only foe.
+Chris Topher Elf Monster was right, it shortens the total distance between you and the first player, thus it is an advantage for everyone, expept the first one or two players, which is good for the remaining players.
Well everything has checks and balances, karts with high speed and low acceleration can actually get enough lead to negate even the mighty blue shell but among high level players removing acceleration can be very dangerous among high skilled players. The giant lead is the pay off for running a risky build. The blue shell got nerfed in frequency, but red shells got buffed by the fact you can only carry 1 item. MK 8 is probably one of the most balanced MK game.
In MK7 the blue shell stays locked onto whoever was in 1st at the time it was deployed so you can't normally see it and be able to dodge it by staying behind. Fortunately the bottom screen shows you which items all the players have so you can tell when they're about to strike.
Izandaia What he is saying is that there is a lot of footage of very rare examples of blue shell usage, such as when someone is 1 ft from finish, and all the specific ways to dodge the shell
***** Well, that footage is useful if you are going to talk about those situations. As for the ways to dodge the shell, they say as they are showing them that they are "high-skill" maneuvers that are difficult to pull off, so I don't feel I have any illusions about how common they might be. PS: Though I will say I have never played Mario Cart and though I've heard of the blue shell, I didn't know it exploded until now.
Some of you jumped on this thinking i was trying to be critical or mean. I meant that I am legitimately impressed with the effort put in to get the footage necessary to give examples of certain circumstances. I though it was cool!
Kisk79 Personally I don't like the term rubber banding, not that I disagree with your opinion. I've always known it as catch up, and it's an option that used to be disable-able in some older racing games, the fact you can't any more bothers me.Technically Rubber Banding is a description for a network lag effect, caused by the client not updating fast enough that the server has to guess where the player is, and then compensate when it's wrong, making the player snap backwards or forwards.
Skid-Inc Gaming I can agree with you that the term itself is not all that accurate, but the imagery of a rubber band snapping forward is certainly powerful when it concerns mechanics like this, and that's why I like using it over "catch up" or any other similar phrasing.
Kisk79 True enough, although to be fair it's more it's use to describe giving the player at the back a higher top speed that I don't like. :) But then I'm technically minded and know Rubber Banding as a network issue so using it to describe something different tends to confuse matters :) But it's more like snapping the first player back, as the person that fires it doesn't get a boost from it.
My sister and I always used to play Mariocart on the DS, we were both pretty good. Once I had the blueshell and was able to catch up anyway. I was in second place, my sister 10 meters in front of me, I throw the Blueshell and my sister brakes off only a second before I had throw the shell. After about 30 seconds the Blueshell came back I slowed down so my sister would get hit but the Blueshell has hit me :D
People enjoy the feeling of winning, but are you enjoying the gameplay as much? Because, that's the problem with having a huge lead in a game like Mario Kart. The tracks and controls themselves are simple enough that if you get a huge lead, it's not all that challenging to keep it, meaning that if you're way ahead with no contest, you are essentially just running auto pilot with no reason to engage the experience. Which, quite frankly, sounds like it sucks.
"You dont get to use your items" What a load of bs. You can totally use items in 1st place. Its why keeping a banana or shell is vital for incoming threats.
They should just add an option to turn of "super items" in the options menu if they haven't yet. So everyone only can get the more basic stuff and with equal chances.
+spork ralfio YES!! I HAVE TRIED SHY GUY FALLS ALMOST TEN TIMES AND ON THE FINAL LAP AND FINAL TURN I ALWAYS GET BLUE SHELLED AND I END UP GETTING 4TH OR 5TH PLACE!!!!!!!!!!!! TO ME, THAT IS SO FRUSTRATING!!!!!!!!!!!!
+hjklr54679 I don't know that the game necessary calculates based on distance of players or if it just reads what place they're in to deterine their drops. But yeah, in my casual games with friends i just barely stick in last and spam the op power ups halfway through the last lap. This strategy is broken, I stopped doing this because i won ~95% of games where I did this.
+미셜비 I remember I got to first place and then I started speeding ahead with 3 red shells spining around me from when I was at a much lower place. The game immediatly threw a blue shell at me -.-. They don't want you to have to much power :T. (this is mariokart 7 I'm talking about)
Its a very calming experience being able to just cruise along at you're leisure, all whilst enjoying the satisfaction that you've basically won. It's also fun at partys to just stop at the finish line and drive over the finish line just barely before 2nd place.
Because the whole deal of this game is to interact with the other racers during the race. When I play with my younger cousin, that isn't as good as me, sometimes I de-accelerate on purpose so I can give him a chance to fight and so we can laugh together on the various fails that happens in the race. But anyway, that's just my opinion. And when I play against npcs only, most of the time I just want to win, so I (kind of) see your point.
While I understand the envisioned fairness the blue shell adds, I've rarely, if ever, seen it used to actually advance the race. Right now I've been trying to get 3 stars on every cup in MK7, and nothing is more frustrating than a blue shell. They always appear right before I've finished the final lap, in first, on the last race; I'm about to have all of my hard work pay off - I'll finally get three stars and move on to the next cup. But then, some CPU player in last place, with no possibility of winning this late in the game, sends a blue shell my way. The 2nd and 3rd place players are trailing right behind me - even a second where I stop will make me lose. And then I get hit with Blue "Justice" and lose everything. The vision is lost. It's completely unfair and still rules in favor of the players that are in the top 3. Do you see where I'm getting to here? 150cc is challenging enough; I'm already getting rewarding play by doing any of the cups. It's a tight race, and I'm NOT far ahead in first. Rarely do I ever have any boosts or stars to get away from the blue devil, and it ALWAYS appears in the most inopportune moments. It feels unfair, and not in a misguided-anger kind of unfair that people plea when they jumped at the wrong time in a platformer. I mean *really* freaking unfair. All it does is add further to the stress of trying to essentially be perfect to get 3 stars. It makes me angry and frustrated and I have to keep trying over and over until the game doesn't give someone the shell. Now, this isn't to say I despise the blue shell. Well, yes it kind of is. I can understand the blue shell being given out a few times, maybe in the middle of the race, when it would actually supplement the competitive gameplay, but when it's given out all the time in the 11th hour of the final lap... why? This is when randomness fails. If you actually read all that, good Lord you're insane.
Zachary Gillenwater Exactly... I don't mind the blue shell at all, when playing online against other players. But when it ruins my 3 star ranking, I get frustrated.
4:37 "By design the blue shell ensures that the most skilled player doesn't always win" And that's exactly what is wrong with this item, no matter what possibilities there are to "avoid" it
True. When you're good at something, you succeed better. That's the base of every game (except of course for pure hasard games) and for everything in life in general. The spiny shell breaks considerably this basic rule
And what sucks is that that statements isn’t even true. The blue appears in basically EVERY race. It’s basically ensuring that the most skilled player NEVER wins.
@@pn2294 Well yeah, you can never say never. But from my experience on average I see at least one blue shell per race. This means that if you are front running you are most likely going to get hit with one and lose your lead.
Tbh I just love the blue shell for the chaos. Can you imagine how many people would be upset if it was removed? Nobody admits it's a balanced item, but nobody wants it gone either; it's just pure dumb fun. If I'm ever far enough back to get it, being able to devastate 1st place is just really satisfying, even if it doesn't exactly help me recover.
Balanced my fucking ass! Who the hell are you trying to fool? Blue shells are not balanced! They're a slap in the face to people who are good at the game! It was never necessary in Mario Kart and it damn well isn't necessary now. It's not for human beings. It doesn't belong in any game ever. Remove it outright and make Nintendo stand trial for crimes against humanity. Why should I be punished for being in first place? I have a right to not get penalized for being skilled!
+AirCooledMan2006 Mario Kart is still a Fun Racer, with an emphasis on *fun*. The blue shell provides exactly this, fun! I couldn't imagine Mario Kart without it. It brings in that unexpectedness and mixes things up. The players must take care to not get hit (like falling back at the right time) which is also a form of skill ; ) If you want to show your skill, go play real racing games like Need for Speed or Forza.
Ganondorf No! It DOESN'T! How is getting punished for your skill fun? IT FUCKING ISN'T! Blue shells and other items like them have no place in any video game ever and never did! We never needed this shit before and we don't need it now. What you just stated is very counter-intuitive. This is why I preferred Diddy Kong Racing over Mario Kart 64. Rare actually made the AI play fair. No rubber-band AI bullshit, no blue shells, no penalizing the player for being good at the game. You can leave the AI racers in the dust and they won't come breathing down your neck ten seconds later. Even better if you unlock T.T. (the clock character). If you play as him, NOTHING can touch you. You have to practically TRY to drive badly in order to lose as him. Even the boss characters can't beat you.
For me, Lightning is an item I just can't stand. I've long accepted what the Blue Shell is there for. Lighting just seems too strong. Hits everyone, shrinks them (and costs them speed) and ALSO destroys any item they have currently, even if they aren't using it. Like the video says, there's ways to counter Blue Shells, but there's really only one surefire way to stop Lighting: a Star. And in many cases, your item roulette might still be spinning, preventing you from even getting that Star and then...ZAP.
One thing I like about the lightning item is that it makes item usage less of a waste. Usually when you have a shell, keeping it to protect you is simply better for you than throwing it to hit one person. The lightning turns that around somewhat - it's ok to "waste" your items, because you might lose them anyway.
B- Squared I guess people who get lightning are whole lot luckier. It already had the chance of knocking you into the abyss mid air or make you fall victim to chain CC among other things lol
I once got a blue shell in Wii and manage to catch up without using it,and I was first.then I got curious, what would happen if you use it,and I blew myself,biggest mistake yet
I am extremely hard-core in this game, but not as described here. I have had 3 or 4 world records in Mario Kart, was in Michael Fried’s (the top world record holder) clan, had an 806-6 win/loss record in online play in Mario Kart DS, and was a very active contributor on GameFaqs.com long ago for Mario Kart games (I am open to any online games in Mario Kart 8 as soon as I figure out how to set up my Nintendo Wii U for online connections in Japanese). But at no point in my life did I curse the blue shell. Just as they say, it’s boring being in front. To be quite frank, I am glad to see it these days. Being highly skilled and highly competitive doesn’t mean that every single game you play has to be a chance to show off your skill. The fact is it often alienates you from your friends who eventually just want to stop playing with you. That’s much less fun than suffering a few blue shells. Calm down my skilled friends, _you_ know you could have demolished everyone, so just relax and fall into “casual mode”. Let other people win. Let there be a time and place for hard-core mode and let everything else be casual gaming with your friends. Trust me. The blue shell is improving your relationships with your friends, so just laugh it off. Prove your skill in other times. If you and your friends are equally skilled, then just as they said, escape the blue shell and prove your dominance.
Wow, you worded this comment so very well that I felt compelled to reply. I'm definitely not a world-class Mario Kart player, but I do feel that being in 1st is not as fun as being in the pack, but I prefer my games chaotic and unpredictable. What you described, alienating people who cannot catch up, is what happened in Sonic & All-Stars Racing Transformed. The first game had no item that seeked out the player in 1st, which created runaway leads, but it got worse with the second game, whose 1st-seeking item was a large group of stationary obstacles about 8 seconds ahead of the lead racer that remained on the track for at least one lap. The player in 1st is usually skilled enough to drive around all of them and barely slow down, if at all, but the players behind, either because they're not as good or because they have to worry about other racers around them, tend to get hit by them instead. This caused the player in 1st to have an even bigger lead. On the Wii U, Xbox 360, and PS3 versions, the number of people playing the game dropped off after several months while Mario Kart Wii continued to thrive. It's important for a game's longevity to put something in the game that gives beginners hope.
Here's my 2 cents on the Blue Shell: 1) In Mario Kart 64 and MK8, the shell hits everyone in its path on its way to first. Other games it just passed by everyone. For it to be most useful to the person in last, it is essential that it at least has the chance to hit everyone. Otherwise the person in last is using an item that's most useful to the person in 4th. 2) In some games (I believe Mario Kart Wii is guilty of this), computers will get Blue Shells more often at higher difficulty levels. At 50cc, you can go through a Grand Prix without seeing one. At 150cc, you can see two or three per race. This was the same game that rewarded you specifically for not only winning but being in 1st for the majority of the race. That is messed up. 3) Sonic and All-Stars Racing Transformed has an item that goes after the people in the first three places, but its design is one that I like quite a bit more. This is the Swarm, which creates a series of obstacles that are possible to dodge, but they ain't easy. Most likely it will slow down the people in the lead, but a skilled player can get around it with less precision than it takes to avoid a Blue Shell. (In this game, I also see it frequently that someone has a substantial lead, but other racers catch up with them before long--something in its mechanics accounted for this.)
I still say No to blue shell. Its the start of a bombardment. Just I stuns me for a few seconds, but then a red shell. now its a longer stun and in 3rd. then another red shell. now in 6th and still cant do anything, now I have to catch up. Oh the race is over.....
Well dont just accept your imminent demise! You can beat the blue shell! (Or at least optimize your chances of not getting bombarded...) I believe in you! :D
This. I think what should happen is that racers should get a few seconds of invulnerability after getting hit with an item, or at the very least, the blue shell. Getting hit with one blue shell isn't always so bad, especially if you're way out in front. But getting hit with 2 or more items back to back is extremely frustrating and just unfair. There is no almost no way to counter it since the blue shell knocks out any item you already had, you can't defend yourself after getting hit with one. Then comes a red shell. Then comes a green shell. Then comes a bullet bill which you couldn't have avoided because you've been stunned in place for 6 seconds while every single racer flies by you.
***** It does if you're dragging the item behind you, which is one reason why a skilled player only drags an item when needed (incoming red shell, for example).
1:35 yeah, I was in first place and I got a blue shell, and out of curiosity, used it like an idiot because I thought it would go after the person in second place because I launched it.
Denial: When you hear the beep and you're like: "please no"
Anger: triggered by the fact that someone threw that thing
Bargaining: Backing up to try to get to second
Depression: When you realize it's already too late
Acceptance: when the thing hits you
DABDA
All in 3 seconds.
Happiness: when you use a mushroom to outrun the explosion or a super horn to destroy the shell
Rage: when you’re about to outrun or destroy the blue shell and a boo steals your power up leaving you defenseless or a lightning bolt strikes you
Lmao
I am only anger
TFW you're so far ahead, even a blue shell can't destroy your lead... it's the best.
Lol... I get hit by the blue shell, and no one can even pass me... _Because I was lapped, and the first place player got hit as they went by, but I'm in 12th, so I cannot be passed..._ XD
Ever since I found a kart set up that works exactly how I need it to, this has become every race for me. It kinda blows.
what does tfw mean?
Sanne H. Yeah
Steven Smith what is it
I once got this: 1. Banana peel sniped
2. Blue shell in the air.
3. Red shell in the air since Lakitu did put me back
4. 2 Green Shells
5. Item box gave me 1 Coin and Banana Peel in 12th
you forgot the part where you CAN'T GET A BANANA PEEL IN 12th and it's almost impossible to get green shelled twice since players in behind won't have a green shell
ENTRO SPACCIO ESCO CIAO are you an idiot...? He could have deluxe, and got the box in 1st. Green shells can be thrown backwards, and bounce. Think before you comment, don't be an ass, and I have been playing since DS, I would know.
SubDaComment i was just gonna say that, but you said it for me, thx, you saved 20'mins of my time on reply to a comment that is just dumb, and pointless, thx man XD
Frisky Frisk This happened to me in MKWii Aggressive Mode:
Blueshelled
Red shell comes
Tries to get a banana
Gets a Fake item box.
Red shelled
Blueshelled again
Get's fucked by a star
Rage quits.
1. 2nd place is close enough to banana snipe
2. Probably pulls ahead enough to where the blue shell would only hit them on impact.
3. That would lose 3 - 4 places which is prime for red shells, plus boxes could have been picked up previously to place changes
4. Same as above, but more likely to get slightly better items than green shells, or they were already thrown.
5. Banana + coin can happen. The box was hit before the green shell hit, really _really_ bad luck, or the game booped out
Blue Shell? More like *Blue Hell!* It holds the all-time record of Most Ruined Friendships Ever.
Brett Schally you sure it’s not the entire Mario Party series?
Nah ur thinking of Chance Time!
CosmicFlare ever played a round of Mario party?
My good men, I present the most friendship ruining game of all time
The Settlers Of Catan
Trainer23
Wait, you mean it's worse than Monopoly?!
That moment when your driving up to the finish line, about to get 100% on the special cup 150cc and you hear the noise of the blue shell...
Shebbyking or my case 200cc
Shebbyking well, i dont know about 7, but when playing ds, i would regularly play special cup on 150cc and win about 2/3 of the time.
u forgot rainbow road
Daniel Javier rainbow road is not as bad as people make it out to be.
Nathan Lang+ its hardest race and sure its not that bad if your good at the game but if your not...
But there's still a problem - if you're all the way back in 12th place and you hit an item block - the Blue Shell is the LAST thing you want to see, because it DOESN'T HELP YOU CATCH UP. You want a Bullet Bill or a King Mushroom or something. The Blue Shell doesn't actually help the player who gets it - it just annoys the person in 1st (and maybe 2nd) place. I appreciate it's good in a general game balance sense, but it's still frustrating for everyone involved - both the user and the victim.
As someone who is basically always in last place, this is exactly what I came to say.
I have two reasons that's not totally true. First, if you're in last, you're not actually that likely to get a Blue Shell compared to the Bullet Bill or King Mushroom. Second, the Blue Shell doesn't just hit the first few players, it travels along the track and can hits everyone in its path.
It can hit everyone but it isn't guaranteed to.
Completely agreed. Came into the comments to say just that, only to find someone's beaten me to it. ^_^
Although I will admit that JediYoshi has a decent point in that the most recent iteration, Blue Shells are now ground-based again, allowing them to hit other players along the way, but the lack of aiming makes it only about as useful as a green shell for the purposes of catching up. Which is to say, not very.
Yknow sometimes in mario kart you get an item you weren't looking for. That's not exclusive to 12th place. And the video explained why blue shells cant be given to higher places. It's true, it's frustrating, but I don't know of an alternative that would either make the game unbalanced, or stupid dull. :D
"The 5 stages of grief in 3 seconds." LMAO
+Brandon Maisonneuve Hey, I find that avatar familiar...
+Brandon Maisonneuve best description he came up with
+Nolan Yee (HaloExpert422) Looks like the Ninjatown characters!
I laughed so hard at that I nearly peed...
**survives blue shell**
**Hears someone in the room whisper **
“What will you do about the second one Onoki”
Best comment.
"You fool, you're already dead"
rip onoki rekt by meteor lol
triple mush exists
Only one Blue Shell can exist at a time, so you can't get hit by a second Blue Shell right away.
when someone uses the blue shell and then like 5 red shells comes
That's just punishing the player for being good. Why ruin the player's experience just because they're good at the game? It makes zero sense! It's an affront to the integrity of the game!
You really don't understand what Mario Kart is at all.
It's pain.
Mario Kart is pain in game form.
Tip4U: Play Forza, Asseto Corsa, Gran Turismo, Codies F1 Games, etc. aka games that are MEANT to reward the player's skill. Mario Kart is about 65% luck and 35% skill.
Mario Kart didn't always have that balance. They could easily rebalance the item system to put more emphasis on skill.
Don't you just hate it when you are about to beat the course, but then a blue shell comes along with it's buddies?
I dodged a blue shell once in double dash.
Dont know how it happened but it was amazing.
perhaps you used a mushroom?
*****
Double dash dosent have coins
*****
The video talks about the blue shell across various versions
Capt stop being a sucker
Double dash was a gamecube release of mariocart where you could unlock various items through beating first place on races.Its really fun and i still play it today.
I just hate it when it hits me when I'm inches from the finish line. Or when I get hit by half a dozen red shells after that.
+KKTrain Springer
ll i launch dozens of blue shell in mario kart ds!!
WATCH OUT!!
YOU NEED TO KNOW YOUR DRIFTING SKILLS!!
TO DODGE A BLUE SHELL!!!
+KKTrain Springer Exactly. I get hit with a blue shell, then eight or nine other shells. Suddenly, I'm in dead last. And still getting pelted by shells for no fucking reason. Plus, the items that can counter the Blue Shell, even with massive skill involved, are almost impossible to get in first place, and when I do have an object that can destroy a Blue Shell, in comes the Lightning, which fries said object. The game literally does not allow me to have a defense against Blue Shells except being so far ahead that it hardly affects me. Not to mention the fact that the Lightning does a better job of being an equalizer anyways. I'd like to not have to use the Super Horn as a Blue Shell Shield and just use it as a normal weapon. I had a really cool clip early on where I spin boosted off of someone and then used the super horn to kick their asses. I called it a Flip-Kick.
It's a bit different in some of the other mario kart games. In wii, you had to hit a boost during the frames that the shell started to dip (5-70 window), which honestly was hella difficult in maps without a lot of boosters
"The five stages of grief in three seconds" I love that line
This is incredibly accurate tbh.
I keep trying to play Mario kart but this one shell keeps kicking my ass
TheGreenPanda it's so fitting because for me this comment was written 27 minutes ago!
Costantino Aristizabal not anymore, bitch.
TheGreenPanda Is it BlueShell27?
XephosOfCanada yeah, TheBlueShell27
TheGreenPanda Who's the BlueShell27?
Skill is relative to the game. In semi-luck based games, like Mario Kart, the real skill is to know how to deal with the luck, good or bad. Yes, sometimes you can't fully recover from some terrible luck, but you can lessen its effect, if you have enough skill. This is why the blue shell is so great, even though I hate it when it locks onto me. It takes skill to lessen the blue shell's effect. In fact, if you're skilled enough, you can even get it to benefit you.
+Fried Keenan You must be Chuck Norris because 99.99999% of players cannot benefit from the average blue shell when being targetted
+Fried Keenan However, in DS and 7, it shows EXACTLY who has obtained the blue shell at any given moment on the touch screen map, and you can use that knowledge for sabotage.
+Fried Keenan Except that the instances where a potential blue shell can/should be played around are so rare that they really don't count for much. Not even a pro player can play around the randomness of item drops, and no one SHOULD give up their banana peel or try to race in first while holding onto a mushroom just for that little bit of insurance against that specific item. After all, it's far more likely that you'll be subjected to 1 or 3 red shells in the higher positions, so giving up your own shell or banana peel to try to get a (very rare) boombox makes no sense and actually makes for a worse play. Especially since the addition of coins has made it far harder for 1st place players to secure some protection.
+William Raymond Mario Kart 8 does that too.
It's possible to dodge without items, but rare among those not skilled enough.
"Catch up item."
Yeah, like someone in dead last destroying the one person in the very front will help them any.
That's what I thought. Everything else he said is debatable, but that's just wrong.
And even if it can be helpful somehow, just getting a rocket, star or lightning would be way more helpful to catch up than the blue shell
It does knock some people in between, but yes its not the most useful for last place player unless it was only 4 or 5 ppl playing.
Well, if you play SimRacing or take on to gokarts in real life, gap to leader or gap to pack leader is all that matters really.
However I think either the lightning (present since SNES) or the bullet (since N64) are far better options for puling someone from dead last, as they both keep the spread amongst others.
.
As for delaying those too far ahead, in SNES I used to be hit by backmarkers when lapping NPCs and target by track hazards when playing versus.
So I don't see how that was a problem for any review. The only thing justifying blue shells is that they made laps shorter changing races from 5 laps to 3, giving everyone a lot of empty space to feel alone and brking the very balance they had perfectly on point on the debut title
@580patriot If there lapping everyone the blue shell wont stop them.
tbh, take the blue shell as a compliment, It goes after you cause you're in first, It is basically telling you that you're so far ahead it has to explode you into oblivion! thats how hardcore you are.
You may feel better because the blue shell is a reminder that you were in first place, but the score at the end of the game will remind you that you didn't get first place and no one cares that you ever were in first.
Lol
This is some next level
R/showerthoughts or R/iamverysmart
bless your soul :)
Except most of the time when I get hit with with a blue shell it’s during the third lap right before I pass the finish line and I get passed by four people
You could argue that its a necessary evil in multiplayer mode, but in GP mode? It's nothing more than a frustrating and luck based way to lose to the AI, who already cheat.
My thoughts exactly
I've lost SO many races at the last second in 150cc. sometimes, it even cost me the gold trophy
SR T How does the AI "cheat?" are you calling cheating when it gets 8 of its avatars to cluster fuck you with items or?
Geeky Channel Rubber band AI.
I've gotten EVERY SINGLE 3 star in 200cc.... BESIDES OF THE BELL CUP. I'm still trying, but I can't seem to win all races because of the AI.
A simple fix to this problem would simply be to make it possible to choose what items are available in the item pool in a race (like you can choose what items are available in a match of Smash Bros). That way, tournament players can completely disable the blue shell or whatever item they don't like. This would be awesome for tournament and casual players, since you could simply choose if you want the full, standard experience or your own special way of playing the game. Easiest and best fix imo.
Julien Thévenoz You COULD do that in mario kart 7. Im not sure in 8 but i think you can
Only the Arcade GP sub-series has pre-race item selection. None of the main series console or handheld games have it. EDIT: At least, not in the way Arcade GP does. There are item presets in both 7 and 8.
in mario karts wii and 7, you can do local multiplayer and change what item sets appear (light, medium, heavy, offensive, defensive). some of those presets dont have the blue shell in them. for 8 you can do the same thing online through custom races/tournaments by setting special conditions. (i remember GXplain setting rules to be bob-ombs only once)
Julien Thévenoz (Facepalms) YOU CAN!!!
Thomas Slayer Well why are tournament players bitching about it then ? Just disable the blue shell
You can actually get rid of a blue shell if your in first place as long as you have a GREEN shell. Since the blue shell drops right in front of you and explodes immediately as it hits the ground, you can time a green shell throw in front of you which can actually destroy the blue shell. It takes a lot of timing and precision to do this.
Daniel TheJedi wow im gonna try that if it works ill give this comment a like
Daniel TheJedi or in mk8 you can use the horn
Remember that trick from the cube days, always held my green shell when out in front for that purpose and never got hit because of them.
frag2k12 Cube days? Like GCN?
The game cube back playing double dash, using the triple drift also worked if I remember correctly, might have to bust out the console and check at some point, think I still got DD.
I think the blue shell is excellent for multi-player, but in far too many of the games it is a problem in single player. It doesn't enhance the challenge or improve the fun when you're dominating an entire race, then get hit with two blue shells, a lightning bolt, run over, a red shell, and then a random bump from a banana peel taking your 20 second lead into a last place finish.
Not only that, but I've noticed the AI in singleplayer can be quite poor, that I've managed to catch up to the last place player in first.
Multiplayer is okay with the blue shell, singleplayer is just bleh. It's too easy to dominate. If it wasn't easy, I'd accept the blue shell.
Yup
The problem with single player is that AI gives a majority of skill and talent to a single NPC for that entire cup, and that NPC generally wins (if all NPCs had equal skill it would be bedlam and easier for you to win) so the issue with blue shells on single player is all it does it knock you out from 1st and allow the 2nd place NPC (the usual winner against other NPCs) in first place.
The 5 stages of grief in 3 seconds😂💀😂
Eli-akad
"Death and Taxes jerk friend"
"The Liam Neeson"
If you're in 12th, chances are you're not gonna get to 1st, 3rd, or even 5th. It's hardly a catch up mechanic, and more of a "Screw the best player" mechanic.
+sora8711 Then save it up until you're in 7th or 6th.
+BadgerCheese94 That's not to your advantage. You'll lose the chance to get other great items in the meantime (since you're near last), i.e. bullet bill, golden mushroom, star, etc.
+sora8711 while I agree that this is most definitely the case in some of the
earlier Mario Kart games, MK8 fixes this problem SOMEWHAT by making the
blue shell go along the course rather than through the air, so it has at
least a chance of hitting all players infront of you
the problem with MK8 is that it's next to impossible to get out of the pack if you're in there, meaning unless there is no player ahead of the pack, first place is almost always the safest place in the game
+sora8711 I would say your more likely to get a blue shell around 6, 7, or 8 place, but that's just me.
+sora8711 A blue shell lets everyone catch up, not only the last one.
the 5 stages of grief in 3 seconds is when the internet goes out temporarily
Aiden .S This is too correct.
When you get wooshed when you told the joke, and everyone agrees
Aiden .S lol
I strongly disagree that its not fun to be way out in front of a race, I get increasingly gleeful every moment the lead is mine, especially if I'm have an oddly mistake free run . I can't be the only one
NH4 is a different story.
The problem is that, when playing against less skilled players, that situation will probably occur most of the times and that leads to boredom for all players.
So you’re saying you actually find enjoyment in being basically isolated, with no interaction with others?
Personally don't play online much so the only enjoyment I get is when I play with a friend so I actually have some competition.
@@princesscadance197 is something wrong with that?
Back in my day blue shells had wings and the only way you could block them was with the perfectly timed Bowser Shell.
In Double Dash?
Bowser shell? What is that? I don't remember anything like that in the game..
The brickwall Ss haha, good times
Balneor Double Dash's character-specific Special Item for Bowser & Jr.
vdxhtx bgfc is
Yup
Something you overlooked:
It gives the losing players a sense of agency. If you're half a lap behind in 8th place, you don't feel like you have an impact on the race. But if you get a blue shell, for a few glorious seconds, you know that YOU are now having an impact, that YOU have just affected the frontlines of the race and might have bought yourself a slight minuscule chance of catching up.
Personally, I've always loved the blue shell (probably because I'm rarely ever in first place), even when I get hit with it. It gives you that sense that even if you're in the lead, you can't relax, because at any second you'll hear a "whihuuuuhiiiiiiiii....-BOOOM" and it can REALLY mess you up if it hits you at the wrong time (like midjump. XD)
But the blue shell only really benefits the person in second or third place. It is useless to the person who used it.
Apothecary2 Only in DD, DS, and Wii. In the other games, it hits other racers on its way, not just the person in lead. Which is AWESOME for whoever used it.
Anton Quirrel It is rare for it to hit someone who isn't in first in 8 because it is on a set path and incredibly easy to dodge. 64 did have the only real tolerable blue shell.
Apothecary2 Because it was the most useless blue shell.
TuWear Though it was the one actually helpful to the user rather than just randomly ruining the day of whomever is in first place.
The blue shell nearly made me break my DS many times.
A Galactic Beaver true
The blue shell on the DS was incredibly easy to dodge though. You could do it just by drifting. No items needed.
cwjakesteel my DS for most of the time I used it, had non working bumper buttons so I could never drift. a year ago I managed to half fix it but it is unpredictable when it will work and drifting is still extremely difficult to get working when I want it to as it could stop working 5 seconds after I last pressed it and worked.
Your average brit and whovian. ik im late, but try blowing into both buttons for 5 seconds. you're welcome.
itsRabbit sorry. that is what I did to fix it in the first place. but yes you are too late. I got an N3DS now.
Most hated? Nah fam that’s the thundercloud
no the blooper
White Blob
the blooper is a useless item
HighLife Gaming
No no no that award goes to the POW block
Agreed
Shook Dice
It can put you at a disadvantage, just not necessarily
It's a little disappointing the video didn't mention the lower screen on the DS and 3DS versions and how that changes the play dynamics by adding extra information which is available to all players. Specifically, it allows players to see what items everyone is holding, and gives them real warning when a mega-item like the Blue Shell or Lightning Bolt is in play. That expands the tactical options the players in the lead have to try to deal with the problem.
In turn, this creates a meta-game situation, where the Blue Shell entering play changes everything, at least while it's around. For example, this happens a lot in MK7 multiplayer on 3DS: #8 gets a Blue Shell, but doesn't immediately fire. #1 spots it, and hits the brakes. Then #2 & 3 hit the brakes. Sometimes, the entire pack follows suit because no one wants to get smacked by the hot potato. So by NOT firing the shell, #8 cruises to #1 while still holding onto his insta-kill item. In effect this creates a "mini-boss" situation, an additional challenge other players have to somehow overcome if they're to stop #8 from stealing the race in disgustingly brazen fashion.
(Seriously, the Game Theory level stuff going on at this point is insane, and ALWAYS makes for interesting races.)
Jason Blalock you can do that in Mario kart 8 on wifi u too
Haha.Never really thought of that.
+Etsyturtle 2 But only for player(s) with the WiiU tablet, which is actually VERY problematic from a game theory standpoint. They get a huge knowledge advantage, with no real trade-off. It's OK for online multiplayer, but borderline unfair for couch play. OTOH, the DS versions are completely fair.
Yeah.
You can put the mini map on the TV screen, too, and you can see the blue shell on it.
Unless you have a mushroom. Then you just laugh.
Chaotix Spark i never dodged a blue shell with a mushroom 🍄 its like its impossible
its not impossible. just like previous mario karts, the blue shell dodge has always been an elite level technique because it requires near perfect timing to pull off.
the true mark of skill
or luck
never luck. you HAVE to know what youre doing and when to it. this move comes down to 100% timing. theres no other way.
But the blue shell doesn’t help the person who uses it, whenever I get it I’m annoyed because in the end it’s just going to help whoever is in second. I think for the most part, items found in the back of the pack should be power ups, because you get to catch up to the pack instead of bringing people already trailing even further backwards. Because remember, The people that the people in last need to catch up to are the people that are ALMOST in last, not first. The lighting is a much better item in my opinion, because it’s varying effect allows the pack to condense into the hectic battles that we love. But the blue shell doesn’t do that, the only people it effects is the person in first, who is now as far back as 5th to 7th literally because they were winning, and the guy in second, who is now in first because some person he hasn’t even seen this race took out the guy in front of him. Lets look at your example about why the blue shell isn’t given to those in second. Yes! You’re right that it would allow the person in second to get way out in first for themselves, but the same thing happens when the blue shell is used as intended, because it doesn’t matter where the blue shell comes from, it’s going to slow first place down by about 5 seconds and give second place the lead. The only difference is that the person in second didn’t even have to fire the shell to get into first.
The lightning is when the racers are close while the blue shell is for one someone is very far ahead. The reason it's only given to people to who'm it is useless is to make sure the OP item can't be used strategically to create a too great lead for another player. The blue shell effectively is completely random because of this. In truth they could have easily made it a totally random thing but since messing with each other is such a big part of MC they figured it was more fun if a player was the one who shot it.
People out here writing a whole essay about blue shells lol
I used to be a Mario Karter -- but then I took a blue shell to the knee.
Mario kart 5: skyrim
But since when does a blue shell helps the guy who gets it? it slows down the lead while your close oponents will have bill balls, stars and super mushrooms! And the blue shell is too brutal in most situations! it can anhilate all your work and make your lose the race for no reason.
***** maybe, but the blue shell does nothing close to you. What's the point is trying to slow the first karts when you already have trouble with the last ones?
***** That's not what I meant: a player in the last position doesn't get any help from the blue shell when the other racers does with other powerups. I remember getting pretty far behind after taking a combo of all the other's powerups when I was only 4th or so. That happens a lot in multiplayer with friends and getting a bad powerup means racing alone behind the well armed group of racers before until the next item boxes.
+Lulink It shortens the distance between your current location and first place by bringing first place closer to you rather than the other way around.
+Setjo91 while i hate it, and i mean HATE the blue shell (i consider my self a Decent player, always have to earn those 3 stars) i have to admit it does make the game more interesting. And, i'm sorry, there are times when i've been just sucking that when a blue shell comes up that i release it at the right time to hit several carts in front of me. I won the race thanks to that shell as the PC was freaking WAY ahead and there would have been no way for me to catch up in time.
Lulink I DO NOT HELP ANYONE
NOW LUV ME
There's something that's bothering me; Mario Kart has items in regular gameplay to allow for all kinds of heart-beating craziness at what's gonna appear next, yet whenever anyone wants a casual game of Smash Bros., the majority of players argue that the items are to be IMMEDIATELY turned off and the only stage played on is Final Destination... why? Shouldn't what Daniel said here apply to both game series since they're both centred around cartoony competition? Isn't a no-item FD match in Smash Bros. the equivalent of having no items in Mario Kart and only playing on Baby Park or a figure-eight course that has no hazards? Who'd buy Mario Kart just to play like that way?
If you wanna play a tournament that focusses on how well-trained at playing as their favourite character someone is, I understand, I get that much, but turning the items off and playing on the most basic flat stage when it's just you and a couple of friends wanting to have a laugh? I just don't see the point
Even back when the Game Grumps played Brawl, Arin and Jon turned the items off and only played Final Destination, even though having a game where some crazy stuff happens gets some awesome reactions; imagine how they'd have reacted if they'd played on New Pork City and Arin tried chasing Jon down with a Poké Ball or a Final Smash, I picture it being like Arin and Danny's fight over the crown in The Amazing Frog? and that had me in tears, I don't think I've laughed so hard before then
And nobody give me the "It's the way Smash Bros. is supposed to be played" excuse, that's bullshit; if it was meant to be played without any items and only on a flat platform-less stage, why would Nintendo intentionally add all manner of crazy items that are set to ON and multiple stages with varying layouts that are set to RANDOM as defaults into all three (soon four) games? Why go through all that hassle just for players to ignore what makes a light-hearted fighting game exciting and play like they're trying to win a gold medal at the Olympics?
If you want to play a fighting game without items and on a evenly-level playing field that's purely a test of skill, there's a huge list of them out there; Tekken, Mortal Kombat, Street Fighter, Marvel VS Capcom and Skullgirls to name a few
You want to play tourney-style, that's fine, that's your choice; as for me, all items are on and set to appear frequently, I'm maining as DK against and the stage randomiser has selected Mt. Coronet, IT'S PARTY TIME!!!
The requirement to have items on means that there could never be a competitive community built around their absence, which happened very quickly in Super Smash Bros., because it's a fighting game. There's also an issue of Smash having a very large demographic that considers itself one of the players without really understanding what that means, which I would personally attribute to the smaller but more dedicated playerbase.
I think the reasoning behind it is that, even if you are playing for fun, fighting games in general are a more 'hardcore gamer' genre. Players want it to come down to skill rather than be defeated by a RNG. My friends and I typically allow smash balls and occasionally pokeballs. Smash ball are big equalizers akin to a hyper combo in Street Fighter; Massive damage that can bring you back or secure a kill, but are very infrequently available and can be played around. Pokeballs, while more common, rarely have true killing potential outside of legendaries and can be counteracted by catching the ball or be played around with minimal effort. A lot of the other items, though, such as the hammers, metal block, stars, and especially assist trophies make it too unbalanced and can make something that was at first a very close fight suddenly be horribly one-sided. The same thing goes for stages with high damage/insta-kill hazards on them. When you get killed by one of them, you're losing to the game rather than to your opponent. I personally have few issues with items. If someone wants to have them on go for it. If i'm playing against someone a bit newer, they can level the playing field. (I just handicap myself and don't use too many). But typically when I'm playing Smash, it's because my two or three friends all want to play a more competitive game all together. Smash Bros plays differently from other fighters to accommodate that, but the 'Final Destination, No Items' mode lets it be more skill-based.
I think the two games are hard to compare. Yes they're both crazy and zany at times with all the items on and the ridiculous courses/boards/levels/whathaveyou but at the end of the day the two are different games entirely, different genres altogether!
Besides I disagree that the most fun way to play smash is like you proposed. I play with friends all the time and we tend to turn the item drop rate up to max most of the time!
Also there's the point of in super smash there is no way to control who gets the items which are OP like there is in mario kart. If anything the short time you get alone on the stage when you've just beat someone gives you the time to go out of your way and grab an OP item, snowballing your lead
Well, I can't say much for the people who play casual and do that (heck, a large number of the competitive players don't even like Final Destination), but I can shed some light on the item issue.
Items in Mario Kart have always been dictated by item boxes put in predictable places on the track. You may not always know the "what" coming from opponents, but you can at least anticipate the "when".
Smash Bros. forgoes this by having all elements randomized. Even if you knew where the item was going to drop (some players have been able to do that through careful observation and a bit of luck) you still don't know what item is coming when since the interval for item drops is random as well.
Some amount of randomization may not impact play overall, but too much can cause severe consistency issues for more skilled players, taking away from the competitive aspect. If the players you are facing off against consider themselves "good", they most likely don't want a large number of wins taken away by the random item element.
Final Destination though? No idea.
If you want to draw a parallel between the treatment of items in Smash Bros and the treatment of items in Mario Kart, there's one part missing from your analysis. Lead-based item distribution.
In Smash Bros, the person in first can get a star just as easily as the person in last. In fact, if you are outright dominating me, you could then combo it up with a legendary pokemon, a star, and a gold hammer. The second two items could have been grabbed while I was being comboed by, or was trying to avoid, the first item.
So this ends up working against the design reasoning laid out in this video. It doesn't really help keep the pack together, in terms of leads and losses. It CAN, but it can also create massive runaway victories too. And it does this truly at random. If a star spawns over my head and bounces INTO me, there was no player-driven decision involved in that event.
If items were distributed based on leads and losses, one might be able to make an argument for their retention in tournament play. Then you'd have action where the guy leading by two stocks should really look out, because player 2 is about to try and utilize his invulnerability. Can he run it out? Will the lead's gap close? Who knows~
Until then, I think the fact that the items can randomly favor the winner or the loser, and doesn't serve an equalization purpose, it won't really work out in tournament play.
Once, I was so far in front that I saw the guy that threw it
TheCactoosThatCould The III That's got to be a: "Oh you motherfuc-*BOOM*" type of moment.
Vatra
No, actually it went all the way around the course until it hit me lol
xD
TheCactoosThatCould The III Lol! That's hilarious! I assumed it would just take the quickest on track route.
aCactoosAppears! Lmao what if you passed that guy and then the esxplosion would hit him as well
aCactoosAppears! You just don't leave their side till it blows up. Just so they know you know
I still remember the first time I ever outran a blue shell on Mario Kart Wii's DK Summit! Those were great times!
James Lowry I think you could do it on double dash with the red shells
I sometimes dodge it by going in the cannon. But that doesn't work in Rainbow Road
i also remember the time i dodged like 2 or 3 blueshells in 3ds mario circuit
I Also Outran The Blue Shell In The Most Clever Way
Dominating is fun
The only people who think that, are hypercompetitive types who hate to be challenged and want their victories handed to them on a silver platter.
No not my victory handed to me on a silver platter. YOUR LOSS hande to YOU on a silver platter. :)
Cheese Grater agreed
Double A the thing is, you didnt just get the win handed to you, you EARNED your spot in front, so it feels good that your work got you to where you are in that race
@FantaKuat Well, even chess and golf can have handycaps when players of vastly different skills are playing with one another. That's what the blue shell is all about. I understand if the race is close and you feel robbed (or you're trying to get that precious 3-star rating on the gran prix), but even I think a race is more interesting if something keeps my lead from being too secure.
(although I do appreciate the Boom Box...)
So that makes sense, but then why does it show up in singleplayer?
The bots don't care if they're getting stomped because they're bots! They don't _have_ fun.
At that point, it only serves to make your attempts to unlock content by playing the game more artificially difficult by forcing you backwards sometimes, unless you're good enough to avoid it and lucky enough to get the items you need to do that.
Lithium The reason you ask? Challenge too add that bit of difficulty too make you that much more happy that you won... or so you can catch up
Lithium It makes your experience more varied.
It's the game's way keeping you on your toes so it doesn't become boring when you're just unlocking stuff
Jair Benitez or in other words, rng. I kinda hate RNG in games that are more or less skill intensive. I don't like the fact that some dingus in like 10th place can affect the outcome of the race without having a chance of actually winning.
Well, what difference does it make to the guy far back in last place that the guy all the way in front got stopped? The racers right behind them will just take first place.
As for challenge... What's challenging about getting a "you fail" bomb dropped right on top of you, with the only ways to avoid it involving extremely precise timing and specific items, which I doubt are even intended to be used to avoid the blue shell. Singleplayer is supposed to be accessible just like the multiplayer, so why is a feature intended to equalize multiplayer at the expense of skill there at all?
The bots don't have brains, they have bytes. So they don't care about fun- they don't 'care' at all!
The video already made note of how the blue shell isn't real difficulty, anyway.
thats what i saying. your experience in racing shouldnt be varied. your finish place outcome definitely shouldnt be determined by rng. racing is tiered. if youre a good enough racer to be getting constant 1st places leaving people in the dust, thats EXACTLY what you worked hard to do. you WANT to dominate. youre showing players that you race in your own skill tier and they cant compete. thats what high skilled racers do. it gives others the incentives and motivation to actually get better at the game and improve their own skill if they actually want to win. you want the difficulty challenge of actual skilled racers, not the challenge of dealing with shitty player rng. the blue shell isnt helpful in any way. since the mechanic of the blue shell is only given to players really far behind. and 99% of the time, they arent even skilled enough to win the race anyway, so it serves no purpose since it doesnt close the skill gap. its just a dick move by someone who cant race against someone who can. thats not a skill equalizer, especially since it only targets the person in first (minus the blast radius for those too close nearby). it doesnt make the user any better at the game, nor does it make the receiver any worse at playing, only frustrated that some douche got it. if you arent good enough to win, then either skill up and get better or give up and find something else to play.
Most hated? Ehh, in the typical MK game, the blue shell is only hated by 12.5% of the racers :P
That's a clever math joke there. Kudos.
+BadgerCheese94 I suck at math. Explain please.
+TheWireWare A large amount of the Mario Kart games have 8 players per race, and 1/8 is 12.5%, so he's saying only the people in first hate the blue shell in a clever math-y way.
+BadgerCheese94 And in a few races that expands up to .. uhm ... 50%
*****
Idk I love them no matter what. Only time it would irritate me is if I'm trying to beat the cups to unlock something. In general though, I love the blue shell cuz just like in Mario Party, chaos is a huge part of what makes Mario Kart fun.
0:35 “Death and taxes’ jerk friend”
Now that’s a good one!
Blue shell, the "aw shit" moment
Yoshi I feel so bad that you've had to go through this.
(MK7) the moment you are first and you see that someone got the blue shell, then you see that they fired it.
"Aw shit bad thing incoming"
The German Mason When I see that someone has a blue shell and hasn't launched it, I go reverse into 2nd or 3rd or avoid being hit.
The German Mason
And in Mkwii, it's like: Nonononononononononono
Yoshi how is you and dashies relationship going yoshi ( i know you might not know him lol )
My brother got a blue shell when he was in first, then he used it and he blew himself up XD
Geometry Dash Vicente done it before on mariokart 64, got a blue shell while in first by using the big ramp over the large boulder in peach's beach i believe. Wanted to see what it did when you're in first. Ended up throwing it a few feet in front of me before it whirled back and hit me lol
Geometry Dash Vicente In 1v1s you can
JProductions XD
JProductions I got it on the 3rd place
I used it on My dad while challenging
Edan Lazarus you can just not likely like proably 0.0000001% chance of getting it in 1st
"The 5 stages of grief in 3 seconds..." For some reason that made me laugh XD
Well, now in Mario Kart 8 Deluxe we can outrun blue shells in 200cc!!
M.Duso you know Wii U version has 200 cc too
M.Duso You could do that in Mario Kart ds 150cc
Arjun Sonecha you can also break the blue shell with a boombox
Michael Echeverria well i call it boombox but ok thanks for telling me
Michael Echeverria happy thanks giving to you too michael :)
I usually call them Karma
Thomanski because being good is such a bad thing to do
I call them the best thing to use when someone say first
Rodrigo Isar SAYS YOU.
Rodrigo Isar
Your joking, right?
Thomanski XD
One feature that I'd like to see Nintendo add to the Blue Shell and Lightning Bolt is an early-warning sound that plays as soon as they're used. For the blue shell, this could be a sound effect, like a sonic boom, that can be heard from all over the map. For the lightning bolt, this could be 1 or 2 seconds of audio and/or visual effects (Thunder, lightning sparks, etc.) before the players are shrunk down.
They did, for the blue shell. In Mario Kart 8, the Blue Shell appears on the map, whenever someone uses it.
Bluetoad
Having it visually appear on the map doesn't help by much, since you need to keep your eyes on the road at all times, and the blue shell isn't all that visible, especially when mixed in with the character portraits that are also on the map. We primarily detect when red shells are about to hit us from behind, or when blue shells are close by, mostly because we can hear warning signs, as we continue to keep our eyes on the road.
ShadowWolfTJC Yeah that's true, but it's at least something. I tend to glance at the map while on straightaways, so it can be helpful for me at least. Well, at least Blue Shells are extremely uncommon in MK8, and I like the new item distribution system in MK8 as well.
ShadowWolfTJC on MK DS i used to check the items veing used on the bottom screen. this way i can keep track of where im going on the minimap and see if any blue shells are coming my way. (dont know about MK7 or 8)
in MK7 (the only one I've played), there's a beeping noise whenever a blue shell has been unleashed. also the bottom screen
i feel like the blue shell should be like a red shell that penetrates 5 racers in front of you instead of barreling towards first place and not helping at all.
Did you watch any of the video? He explained why its current design is good for balancing players who are far ahead or behind.
It doesn't help at all for the one who used it, if they are behind fourth place.
just thought i'd throw the idea out there...
+quiwye If you're in 12th, the blue shell doesn't help, it just changes the first four positions. It closes the gap between who got hit by the shell and the one who threw it, not necessarily 1st and last.
did you just call the triple shells shields? lol
This is usually my experience with Mario Cart: I get the god level item I've been waiting for, and I am just about to use the Golden Shroom, when suddenly, I can't see as a squid blocks my view, and as it ink's me, I get zapped by lightning, losing my item, blue shell hits me, and then the second place player rubs in the salt with a red shell as they zoom by... FFS!!!
i was playing Mario Kart 64 on the wii and i was on Toads Turnpike and i was in first. i got a blue shell and dicided to see what would happen. i shot it, and it flew about 10 feet then turned around and naild me.
I did this in mkwii the same thing happened
Apock 247 I did this once in Mario kart wii, I thought it would get 2nd place....
Yup, happens the same way on N64 :p Actually, if you shoot it while you don't move, it won't return to you and will run through all the race before attacking him from behind.
Apock 247 lmaaaooo
WHY DID YOU THINK THAT WAS A GOOD IDEA?
You know I still wish the blue shell still hones in on EVERYONE (between the user and the first place player) in the race as it reaches the first place player because right then and there allows the lower rank player a better chance to catch up to everyone rather than unintentionally helping only the second and third players behind the first. Though I like how they at least made it possible or more manageable by having it move through the middle of the course instead of honing in on everyone but I still prefer it would still try to attack other players as it reaches the first player. What I really hope for a good compromise is that the blue shell has it's own hidden danger zone as it travels through the middle of the track and immediately attack other players that are unfortunately in that danger zone. The zone doesn't need to be too wide in the way that the only way to avoid is to stick really close to the wall but just wide enough in the middle that doesn't make players lose too much of their speed when trying to avoid it.
+Guilmonhero weird I thought it always went through the middle of the track, even in MK64, cause I was in second place and managed to avoid being hit by it, I know for certain that it flew over the racers in double dash(GCN) and Wii, however I've never played the handheld MK's, so it might have homed in on all racers in those games.
***** Nope, it never did on any of the other games and the current Blue Shell came from the 7th. Except... I only played the 3DS ones and not the GBA....
I believe when the blue shell was first made the game couldn't single out the first person for the blue shell to attack so it just rammed into everyone, then again I could be wrong
Wa D3RP well after playing MK64 again I got a blue shell and it just went strait into a wall and broke
+JNΛEJNΛΣ GΛMING Actually I can see what he's talking about just fine. Guil means something akin to that warp thing in CTR (Crash Team Racing) to whenever you have 10 wampa fruits that thing will literally go after EVERYONE IN FRONT OF YOU!
I love being far out in front without interacting with other people... is that bad?
jackson Kollmorgen Same. I like winning. winning is more fun to me than "interacting" with other players.
jackson Kollmorgen Not at all. I'm competitive when it comes to games, and it feels really good to absolutely demolish my opponents.
Bicey How do you think the other players feel when they can't ever beat you?
Jair Benitez horrible, exactly how they should feel. If you suck at the game then stop sucking and git gud.
Jair Benitez I don't care how they feel. As someone who is competing against them, I shouldn't feel bad if someone loses. If someone beats me, I'm not going to blame them for being happy.
*Insert: Why everyone loves the Boom Box*
Once I kept a blue shell until I was in 1st. It blew me up.
Bobby Patton Just remember, the blue shell goes after the player in first place. That means, if you throw a blue shell and you're in first, it will target you. I always make that mistake sometimes too.
Yoshimitsu always sometimes...... smart
Ok, here's my redesign of the blue shell:
Rather than make you stop dead in your tracks, have it knock you into the air for a second but MAINTAIN your momentum until you land and tumble a few times. This way it has all the advantages of slowing down the player but the effect is delayed by a second or two, so if you get hammered right before the finish line you can still sail over and win. It's still effectively the same design but a) it FEELS less unfair because victory can't be snatched away RIGHT at the line, and b) winning the race by getting pummeled and sailing through the air would feel awesome!
There are a few potential drawbacks to this design though, only one of which I can think of a solution to right now:
1) If you get hit while taking a corner you'll get blown into the air and land out of bounds, making your situation WORSE than if you'd been hit and stopped dead. I think the solution to this is to change the hang time based on the angle between the player and the shell (or how much the kart is turning). If you get hit while sliding around a corner you'll simply flip over and tumble on the spot, but if you get hit from behind whilst driving straight you'll sail into the air and only tumble when you land.
2) If you get hit just before a pit you'll sail over the ramp and fall in. This is a problem, but with the quick resets in MK8 and the fact the other shells already do this it's probably a negligible downside.
Victory can still get snatched away right at the line, you will just know it earlier....
I cant see any positive effect of your idea....
Rithmy true
Rithmy
If it happens "earlier" then it's not "right at the line" is it?
I liken the sensation to something like a prize wheel. If it stopped dead and the prize was immediately revealed, whatever. But that suspense of "Come on, come on, just a little bit more!" is fun. Seeing the wheel slow down, trying to will it over that final last peg, not immediately knowing whether or not it'll make it... that's FUN!
When your kart gets hit and you go from full speed to a static stop right before the line, that's not fun. That sucks. Getting blown up and TUMBLING toward the line, even if you don't quite make it and end up coming to a stop right before the line, that's still FUN. It changes the situation from "Fuck, I lose" to "Fuck! Come on baby, keep rolling! Go go GOOOOaaaaaand fuck, I lose".
Get it now?
NoeLPZC
Prize wheels are a completly other kind of entertainment. They are based on pure luck. Anticipation builds up some sort of hope there. This only works because you cant rly calculate when it will slowdown.
In Mario Kart you get fun by winning or "hurting" others playfully.
Anyways. The system doesnt work here well because Its much easier to calculate how far you will roll after being hit. Its the same result. Also you will feel too safe even before you reached the finish line becuase now, not even blue shells can stop you.
Btw whats about greenshells? you can do the same with them.
Rithmy"In Mario Kart you get fun by winning or "hurting" others playfully."
That's an incredible oversimplification of Mario Kart's mechanics. You're clearly not a game designer.
"The system doesnt work here well because Its much easier to calculate how far you will roll after being hit. Its the same result."
That would depend entirely on how it was implemented. You can't make that statement based on my design alone.
"Also you will feel too safe even before you reached the finish line becuase now, not even blue shells can stop you."
Red and green shells can stop you, but even if they didn't exist it wouldn't matter. As a game mechanic, the blue shell's purpose is keep the racers in a close pack because it leads to more dynamic gameplay. Only racers at the back of the pack get access to it - it's not a weapon for the guy in second place. Getting hit with a blue shell right before the line is a *flaw* in the game's design. When that happens the shell isn't serving its purpose, it's just screwing first place out of a deserved win.
"Btw whats about greenshells? you can do the same with them."
Green shells work in a slightly different way - they slow the player down immediately. They're a good weapon for a player in second place to snatch the win. This proposed new blue shell wouldn't - you'd have two or three seconds of air time before you lost any speed. Not that much, but long enough that if you made it to the final straight in first place a blue shell couldn't fuck you over (but red and green shells still could). This removes the ability for last place to determine the winner of the race, instead having it be decided by the top 2-3 players.
I still prefer sonic allstar's solution in the form of the swarm item, the swarm is always avoidable regardless of the situation but requires player to swerve around the swarm's hitbox; consequently sacrificing the optimal path, the swarm also effects all racers near the front of the pack regardless of position in the race and is available to more than just the last place racers, in turn giving the player who fired the swarm a direct reward for using it efficiently (as players are invulnerable to their own swarms). What's more is the swarm will be most effective in tight areas of the track in turn giving player agency to the whoever is holding the swarm; asking the question of how to use the swarm effectively rather than just having it appear as the result of a random number generator under the game's hood.
I didn't know about that, mabye because it's not iconic enough to the point where people that haven't played the game have heard of it.
It's pretty easy to avoid even in tight quarters, and difficult to place where you really want it. It tries to accomplish what the Blue Shell does, but doesn't. It's also much harder to hit people with other items in that game, both guided and unguided, so the player in first is pretty much impervious, and the real fighting in the race is for second place.
Sonic&All-stars racing is definitely a good series when taken on it's own, but it just makes me feel like playing Mario Kart again.
Frost Blaze
Seriously, I had to look up which game the critters came from.
I didn't even get 15 seconds into this video and I had to stop for a moment, because the slow-motion replay just emphasizes how completely beautiful this game is, in a way that sometimes can't be appreciated at breakneck speeds.
I laughed when he said it was called he 5 stages of grief in 3 seconds
I did, too! I had to pause the video to laugh
I love the implementation of the Blue Shell equivalent in Blur - the racing game infamous for its ad campaign mocking Mario Kart. Behind its antagonising first impression, the game was actually pretty well designed.
Its version of the Blue Shell caused a barrage of random electrical zones to spawn in front of the #1 racer, blocking off half the track. The storm lasted about 8 seconds and driving through a zone massively slowed you down. Once the #1 had passed a zone, it would dissipate after a random delay.
This was a huge improvement over the Blue Shell because:
1/ it didn't just screw over the #1 to the benefit of the #2 but impeded everyone near pole position, and the closer they got to the lead, the worse it got. This meant there were no undeserved gains or losses: you could close the gap with the leader, but actually overtaking him required doing a better job at weathering the same storm. It effectively compressed the field, achieving its goal of preventing unsurmountable leads without picking on one driver in particular.
2/ you could counter it by being a skilled driver. Hitting a zone would screw you hard, but you could technically avoid them and only lose a small amount of time. The item always had SOME impact, but if you were a good driver and the #2 wasn't, you'd actually increase your lead.
Ahh... the asshole game outdesigned cute and cuddly Nintendo. World ain't fair sometimes.
maybe the blue shell could be more effective and less annoying if it was based on distance instead of position, so it could appear more often when the first place player has too much of a lead instead of just because he's in first
look at what Sonic Allstar Racing and blur did. The Bees and the lightning bolts. They set up traps, you need to drive around. Slowing the players in front down, but high skilled players can drift around.
The blue shell appears more often for players who are in the back of the pack but not in last or second to last place, it can appear for those players as well but it's designed as a way to slow the first player down.
Of course, the first place player has ways to avoid it, especially if he's way out in front and can afford to hold onto a mushroom or anything else that can be used to dodge it.
As shown, there is counterplay to the blue shell (Simply reversing and becoming second is enough to not have it target you, and then you can retake your lead.) while regardless it helps the players in the back catch up by disrupting the flow of the game and usually starting an item war between those in the first couple of positions who want to take advantage of the blue shell to gain a lead themselves.
*****
Unfortunately, the Sky Tigers had the opposite effect of what was intended--after a few weeks, people skilled enough to be in 1st could effortlessly dodge them while players further behind who weren't quite as good got caught up in them and got slowed down. Because the Sky Tigers were stationary obstacles that show up in fixed patterns and take a long, LONG time to go away, they wound up strengthening the leads.
That, and they're near useless when in a plane in most courses as you could fly around the whole swarm, unless you could time it such that you placed them in narrow passageways like the tunnel in Rogue's Landing or Wizeman's corridor in Dream Valley.
***** I still prefer the concept. But yeah, developers need to improve it. Unfortunately blur was abbandoned, because ActiBizz closed Bizarre Creation (Blackest Night for Racing Games) and Sonic All Stars was just a job for Sumo, not a long term investment.
I don't expect Mario Kart to adapt the concept. Seems like the Blue Shell has been improved since Mario Kart Wii.
*****
Well, that was because blur didn't sell as well as Activision had hoped (though this can be an excuse no matter how well a game sells--Epic Mickey sold millions and Disney was not satisfied).
The best first-place seeker I've seen is the Ghost in Snowboard Kids and Snowboard Kids 2. What it would do is head to the opponent with the highest position, then halve that player's speed for about 12 seconds. There is no impact--his or her speed simply slows down until the Ghost goes away. This allows the player afflicted with a Ghost to stay in full control, only now they have a speed disadvantage.
Lightning item is my Most hated item
ECGaming _ at least lightning is balanced and helps last place out while the blue shell is neither
BobRoss Yeah I know but I hate it when it comes in the worse timing
Me too.
It's like, you'll be in a heated competition for first, and then BOOM! You're an RC car. It's really annoying :/
ECGaming _ 64 version was the best/worst since being squished would stop you for a long time
I hate the Blue Shell... I'm that player that is usually in first, or in the fight for first, so I get hit by it a lot. A good way to make it less frustrating would be if it couldn't happen during the last lap since then is when there is no counter play for the player in first. You get hit in the last stretch of the track, you can't win.
I would like to add that while being first and uncontested is not boring at all. There are elements to take into account, like keeping an item in the back to stay protected from Red Shells, which also adds another element in and of itself: I have an item protecting me and I'm approaching the item boxes. Do I drop my item as a trap for the player in 2nd and as an attempt to get a Super Horn or Mushroom? risking running unprotected if I don't get anything useful? or do I keep my item and pass on the chance of the Super Horn?
The problem of the palyer in 1st getting a big lead actually comes from the player in 3rd. If the player in 3rd hits the player in 2nd, taking its position, it means that the player in 1st got a bigger lead and now who was in 2nd before is going to take revenge on that player, further putting both farther away from the player in 1st. Thats why its important to no hit whoever is in 2nd if you are in 3rd, at least not till the race is about to end, it doesn't help you win the race, at all
I fucking hate the blue shell! Once in 150cc Mushroom gorge, I was jumping across the mushrooms. And there was a blue shell, and I fell down! I went from 1st to 5th! FUCK YOU BLUE SHELL!
I agree 100%.
Also why I find being 2nd the hardest place to be. You're doing well enough to only get crappy single items (triplets are rare) but you have to attack 1st AND defend against 3rd. Most of the time you lack the tools to do so and end up falling behind while 1st increases their lead.
I call the blue shell "Blue Death"
I call it "pain itself"
Nice prof pic
Oh No Not A Blue Shell
I
call
the
blue shell
the
Blue Shell.
DuSAprukiyathan Best name
Wait WTF?! lol
Oh hey, I think I might be in this video for a split second. I recognized my username in the scoreboard at 5:29. Neat!
FoxMan Wow! xD
+FoxMan Its like an easter egg/shout out... kinda
His name is FoxMan
"Being way ahead is almost as bad as being way behind" -Said no one who enjoys winning.
Who doesn't enjoy stomping their opponent(s) from time to time? I for one enjoy going undefeated or obliterating my enemy from time to time.
If you are having fun with winning then you are having a balanced meal of wins and defeats. Winning too much gets really boring after a while. Try to play a Roblox pvp game and try as hard as you can. You'll win 100% of the time and it will get really boring.
Actually, the NOOT NOOT horn is the best item. It can make the person who threw the blue shell feel stupid. Its powerful NOOT NOOT attack can destroy anything.
Ω ΛιαnDυdγGαmΞrGυγ Ω wuts noot noot mean?
Destin de Zeeuw you must be new to lifr
By "new to lifr" he meant "have a life outside the internet".
I had to look it up too, apparently it's a reference to this meme: knowyourmeme.com/memes/noot-noot
Yusuf Gunsever j
Unfortunately the noot noot horn is super rare in Singleplayer while KI Enemies thro Shells at you all 20 seconds.
Good points, but I disagree.
First of all, the Blue Shell isn't at all helpful to the person pulling it. How does the person *way* out in front being killed help them in any way? It doesn't advance their position at all. I can assure you that they'd much rather have a Star or a Bullet Bill to get away instead.
Second... who said frontrunning wasn't fun? I don't know about you, but I think winning feels good. Other players are almost always good enough to stay close, too. As for avoiding the Blue Shell, I can count the amount of times I"ve gotten a Super Horn in first on two hands in 650 hours of gameplay. If you can't keep up... get better at the game.
And, to wrap it all up... the Blue Shell is a redundant link. People in second or third place get triple red shells all the time, which can close the gap just as well.
+Mickehd00d It shortens the distance between your current location and first place. Ultimately that is the goal of any item in the game.
+Elf Monster Not quite, especially if the 3rd, 4th or 5th place people are close and maintaining fast speeds. You're still going to be behind all of them anyhow, and your obvious lack of ability is your only foe.
+Chris Topher Elf Monster was right, it shortens the total distance between you and the first player, thus it is an advantage for everyone, expept the first one or two players, which is good for the remaining players.
Well everything has checks and balances, karts with high speed and low acceleration can actually get enough lead to negate even the mighty blue shell but among high level players removing acceleration can be very dangerous among high skilled players. The giant lead is the pay off for running a risky build. The blue shell got nerfed in frequency, but red shells got buffed by the fact you can only carry 1 item. MK 8 is probably one of the most balanced MK game.
+Mickehd00d
It also doesn't excuse blue shells in single player.
Me: finally, first place
Blue shell: I'm bout to end dis man's whole career
>:)
In MK7 the blue shell stays locked onto whoever was in 1st at the time it was deployed so you can't normally see it and be able to dodge it by staying behind. Fortunately the bottom screen shows you which items all the players have so you can tell when they're about to strike.
Hey I thought I was the only one who remembered that
There is an impressive amount of circumstantial footage in this episode
I think you mean "footage relevant to the discussion".
Izandaia What he is saying is that there is a lot of footage of very rare examples of blue shell usage, such as when someone is 1 ft from finish, and all the specific ways to dodge the shell
Fairly easy to get with the Highlight Reel feature.
***** Well, that footage is useful if you are going to talk about those situations. As for the ways to dodge the shell, they say as they are showing them that they are "high-skill" maneuvers that are difficult to pull off, so I don't feel I have any illusions about how common they might be.
PS: Though I will say I have never played Mario Cart and though I've heard of the blue shell, I didn't know it exploded until now.
Some of you jumped on this thinking i was trying to be critical or mean. I meant that I am legitimately impressed with the effort put in to get the footage necessary to give examples of certain circumstances. I though it was cool!
"the 5 stages of grief in 3 seconds"
i lost it XD
Rubber banding in a racing game never makes it better.
Kisk79 Personally I don't like the term rubber banding, not that I disagree with your opinion. I've always known it as catch up, and it's an option that used to be disable-able in some older racing games, the fact you can't any more bothers me.Technically Rubber Banding is a description for a network lag effect, caused by the client not updating fast enough that the server has to guess where the player is, and then compensate when it's wrong, making the player snap backwards or forwards.
It's a natural rubber band. Controlled by the players. Not Need for Speeds Bullshit. And it's done better in blur and Sonc ASR.
Skid-Inc Gaming
I can agree with you that the term itself is not all that accurate, but the imagery of a rubber band snapping forward is certainly powerful when it concerns mechanics like this, and that's why I like using it over "catch up" or any other similar phrasing.
I feel like rubber banding can be great, but you should be able to turn it off.
Kisk79 True enough, although to be fair it's more it's use to describe giving the player at the back a higher top speed that I don't like. :) But then I'm technically minded and know Rubber Banding as a network issue so using it to describe something different tends to confuse matters :) But it's more like snapping the first player back, as the person that fires it doesn't get a boost from it.
My sister and I always used to play Mariocart on the DS, we were both pretty good. Once I had the blueshell and was able to catch up anyway. I was in second place, my sister 10 meters in front of me, I throw the Blueshell and my sister brakes off only a second before I had throw the shell. After about 30 seconds the Blueshell came back I slowed down so my sister would get hit but the Blueshell has hit me
:D
El Presidente LOL😂😂😎
This blue she'll ruined so many of my friendships.
"Blue she'll"
So a girl is blue
Liquid Meth red you'll
Blue She'll
No way man I love the feeling of having a huge lead on everyone else
People enjoy the feeling of winning, but are you enjoying the gameplay as much? Because, that's the problem with having a huge lead in a game like Mario Kart. The tracks and controls themselves are simple enough that if you get a huge lead, it's not all that challenging to keep it, meaning that if you're way ahead with no contest, you are essentially just running auto pilot with no reason to engage the experience. Which, quite frankly, sounds like it sucks.
And I like shortening leads. So that's gonna be one hell of a conflict :)
There needs to be a way to turn off specific items like smash bros. if that's in Mario kart 9, the first thing I'd do is turn of the blue she'll.
You can actually turn off certain 'types' of items, for example you can limit the game to only spawn shells.
I know, but that's not what I mean
Fair enough, I also agree that being able to turn spawns of any individual item on/off would be awesome.
Thats probably why they don't include that option haha
but it's fun when the bitch in the front assplodes
"You dont get to use your items"
What a load of bs. You can totally use items in 1st place. Its why keeping a banana or shell is vital for incoming threats.
Me and my brothers always used to refer to the Blue Shell as "Ol' Bluey" and it has caused no less than 3,475 sibling brawls within my household.
"Being way ahead is no fun"
-t.12th place addict
They should just add an option to turn of "super items" in the options menu if they haven't yet. So everyone only can get the more basic stuff and with equal chances.
What video did you watch??? xD
randomtwist But he is right! it would be the best if you could choose your experience.
What game are you talking about???? xD
they added that in brawl, dunno why not in this aswell
Chareater
Probably because if it could be used online certain racers would use it to win all the time.
"The Blue Shell..." the majestic camera shots that was so good
The Blueshell should stop spawning when someone enters the last lap.
Yeah, I know.
I was surprised I couldn't find any no Blueshells hack for MKWii.
+spork ralfio OR.... get blue shells very rarely on the second or first lap but on the final one they're quite common.
+spork ralfio YES!! I HAVE TRIED SHY GUY FALLS ALMOST TEN TIMES AND ON THE FINAL LAP AND FINAL TURN I ALWAYS GET BLUE SHELLED AND I END UP GETTING 4TH OR 5TH PLACE!!!!!!!!!!!! TO ME, THAT IS SO FRUSTRATING!!!!!!!!!!!!
+hjklr54679 I don't know that the game necessary calculates based on distance of players or if it just reads what place they're in to deterine their drops. But yeah, in my casual games with friends i just barely stick in last and spam the op power ups halfway through the last lap. This strategy is broken, I stopped doing this because i won ~95% of games where I did this.
+미셜비 I remember I got to first place and then I started speeding ahead with 3 red shells spining around me from when I was at a much lower place. The game immediatly threw a blue shell at me -.-. They don't want you to have to much power :T. (this is mariokart 7 I'm talking about)
I completely disagree that being way ahead is not fun.
ArchAngelThomas
Why so?
ArchAngelThomas Get used to it then
ArchAngelThomas
I completely agree with you, I love that feeling
Its a very calming experience being able to just cruise along at you're leisure, all whilst enjoying the satisfaction that you've basically won. It's also fun at partys to just stop at the finish line and drive over the finish line just barely before 2nd place.
...when it's not actually all the time.
The Five Stages of Grief in Three Seconds xD
The Blue Shell: Good when you get it
Bad when it gets you
So...the defense of the blue shell is that being way in first isn't fun.
My response: According to who?
I would agree.
To most of the people that play just for fun. Like myself.
Lince Assassino
What does that have to do with whether or not being in first is fun?
Because the whole deal of this game is to interact with the other racers during the race.
When I play with my younger cousin, that isn't as good as me, sometimes I de-accelerate on purpose so I can give him a chance to fight and so we can laugh together on the various fails that happens in the race.
But anyway, that's just my opinion.
And when I play against npcs only, most of the time I just want to win, so I (kind of) see your point.
Lince Assassino
That still has nothing to do with the whole "the blue shell is good because being in first isn't fun" nonsense.
I have a name for the blue shell: Spiney Bastard
I call it the salt maker.
While I understand the envisioned fairness the blue shell adds, I've rarely, if ever, seen it used to actually advance the race.
Right now I've been trying to get 3 stars on every cup in MK7, and nothing is more frustrating than a blue shell. They always appear right before I've finished the final lap, in first, on the last race; I'm about to have all of my hard work pay off - I'll finally get three stars and move on to the next cup. But then, some CPU player in last place, with no possibility of winning this late in the game, sends a blue shell my way. The 2nd and 3rd place players are trailing right behind me - even a second where I stop will make me lose. And then I get hit with Blue "Justice" and lose everything. The vision is lost. It's completely unfair and still rules in favor of the players that are in the top 3. Do you see where I'm getting to here?
150cc is challenging enough; I'm already getting rewarding play by doing any of the cups. It's a tight race, and I'm NOT far ahead in first. Rarely do I ever have any boosts or stars to get away from the blue devil, and it ALWAYS appears in the most inopportune moments. It feels unfair, and not in a misguided-anger kind of unfair that people plea when they jumped at the wrong time in a platformer. I mean *really* freaking unfair.
All it does is add further to the stress of trying to essentially be perfect to get 3 stars. It makes me angry and frustrated and I have to keep trying over and over until the game doesn't give someone the shell.
Now, this isn't to say I despise the blue shell. Well, yes it kind of is. I can understand the blue shell being given out a few times, maybe in the middle of the race, when it would actually supplement the competitive gameplay, but when it's given out all the time in the 11th hour of the final lap... why? This is when randomness fails.
If you actually read all that, good Lord you're insane.
Zachary Gillenwater Exactly... I don't mind the blue shell at all, when playing online against other players. But when it ruins my 3 star ranking, I get frustrated.
4:37 "By design the blue shell ensures that the most skilled player doesn't always win"
And that's exactly what is wrong with this item, no matter what possibilities there are to "avoid" it
True. When you're good at something, you succeed better. That's the base of every game (except of course for pure hasard games) and for everything in life in general. The spiny shell breaks considerably this basic rule
And what sucks is that that statements isn’t even true. The blue appears in basically EVERY race. It’s basically ensuring that the most skilled player NEVER wins.
@@envviro never? I wouldn’t say that
@@pn2294 Well yeah, you can never say never. But from my experience on average I see at least one blue shell per race. This means that if you are front running you are most likely going to get hit with one and lose your lead.
Tbh I just love the blue shell for the chaos. Can you imagine how many people would be upset if it was removed? Nobody admits it's a balanced item, but nobody wants it gone either; it's just pure dumb fun. If I'm ever far enough back to get it, being able to devastate 1st place is just really satisfying, even if it doesn't exactly help me recover.
+Narwhao Right? That's the best shit, fucking things up!
I totally agree with you. Without the blue shell, there would be missing something! It has become a part of Mario Kart as we know it today.
Balanced my fucking ass! Who the hell are you trying to fool? Blue shells are not balanced! They're a slap in the face to people who are good at the game! It was never necessary in Mario Kart and it damn well isn't necessary now. It's not for human beings. It doesn't belong in any game ever. Remove it outright and make Nintendo stand trial for crimes against humanity. Why should I be punished for being in first place? I have a right to not get penalized for being skilled!
+AirCooledMan2006 Mario Kart is still a Fun Racer, with an emphasis on *fun*.
The blue shell provides exactly this, fun! I couldn't imagine Mario Kart without it. It brings in that unexpectedness and mixes things up.
The players must take care to not get hit (like falling back at the right time) which is also a form of skill ; )
If you want to show your skill, go play real racing games like Need for Speed or Forza.
Ganondorf
No! It DOESN'T! How is getting punished for your skill fun? IT FUCKING ISN'T! Blue shells and other items like them have no place in any video game ever and never did! We never needed this shit before and we don't need it now. What you just stated is very counter-intuitive.
This is why I preferred Diddy Kong Racing over Mario Kart 64. Rare actually made the AI play fair. No rubber-band AI bullshit, no blue shells, no penalizing the player for being good at the game. You can leave the AI racers in the dust and they won't come breathing down your neck ten seconds later. Even better if you unlock T.T. (the clock character). If you play as him, NOTHING can touch you. You have to practically TRY to drive badly in order to lose as him. Even the boss characters can't beat you.
Calling it the 5 stages of grief in 5 seconds is surprisingly accurate
For me, Lightning is an item I just can't stand. I've long accepted what the Blue Shell is there for. Lighting just seems too strong. Hits everyone, shrinks them (and costs them speed) and ALSO destroys any item they have currently, even if they aren't using it.
Like the video says, there's ways to counter Blue Shells, but there's really only one surefire way to stop Lighting: a Star. And in many cases, your item roulette might still be spinning, preventing you from even getting that Star and then...ZAP.
One thing I like about the lightning item is that it makes item usage less of a waste. Usually when you have a shell, keeping it to protect you is simply better for you than throwing it to hit one person. The lightning turns that around somewhat - it's ok to "waste" your items, because you might lose them anyway.
I think lightning is there to stop people just holding on to their red shells all game until they get a perfect time to use it.
I'm pretty sure if your item roulette is still spinning then you will not drop the item to the ground. At least in Mario Kart 7 you won't.
jaden coleman I know for a fact that in 8 that's not the case. Not a fan of that change.
B- Squared I guess people who get lightning are whole lot luckier. It already had the chance of knocking you into the abyss mid air or make you fall victim to chain CC among other things lol
I once got a blue shell in Wii and manage to catch up without using it,and I was first.then I got curious, what would happen if you use it,and I blew myself,biggest mistake yet
I once escaped a blue shell, I was shocked! or not lol XD
I golden mushroomed out of a blue shell
TEMPTED_ YOUTH Its easy to dodge a blue in Mkwii lol, even to outrun them mostly
i once used one on myself
I am extremely hard-core in this game, but not as described here. I have had 3 or 4 world records in Mario Kart, was in Michael Fried’s (the top world record holder) clan, had an 806-6 win/loss record in online play in Mario Kart DS, and was a very active contributor on GameFaqs.com long ago for Mario Kart games (I am open to any online games in Mario Kart 8 as soon as I figure out how to set up my Nintendo Wii U for online connections in Japanese).
But at no point in my life did I curse the blue shell. Just as they say, it’s boring being in front. To be quite frank, I am glad to see it these days.
Being highly skilled and highly competitive doesn’t mean that every single game you play has to be a chance to show off your skill. The fact is it often alienates you from your friends who eventually just want to stop playing with you. That’s much less fun than suffering a few blue shells.
Calm down my skilled friends, _you_ know you could have demolished everyone, so just relax and fall into “casual mode”. Let other people win. Let there be a time and place for hard-core mode and let everything else be casual gaming with your friends.
Trust me. The blue shell is improving your relationships with your friends, so just laugh it off. Prove your skill in other times. If you and your friends are equally skilled, then just as they said, escape the blue shell and prove your dominance.
Wow, you worded this comment so very well that I felt compelled to reply. I'm definitely not a world-class Mario Kart player, but I do feel that being in 1st is not as fun as being in the pack, but I prefer my games chaotic and unpredictable.
What you described, alienating people who cannot catch up, is what happened in Sonic & All-Stars Racing Transformed. The first game had no item that seeked out the player in 1st, which created runaway leads, but it got worse with the second game, whose 1st-seeking item was a large group of stationary obstacles about 8 seconds ahead of the lead racer that remained on the track for at least one lap. The player in 1st is usually skilled enough to drive around all of them and barely slow down, if at all, but the players behind, either because they're not as good or because they have to worry about other racers around them, tend to get hit by them instead. This caused the player in 1st to have an even bigger lead. On the Wii U, Xbox 360, and PS3 versions, the number of people playing the game dropped off after several months while Mario Kart Wii continued to thrive.
It's important for a game's longevity to put something in the game that gives beginners hope.
Here's my 2 cents on the Blue Shell:
1) In Mario Kart 64 and MK8, the shell hits everyone in its path on its way to first. Other games it just passed by everyone. For it to be most useful to the person in last, it is essential that it at least has the chance to hit everyone. Otherwise the person in last is using an item that's most useful to the person in 4th.
2) In some games (I believe Mario Kart Wii is guilty of this), computers will get Blue Shells more often at higher difficulty levels. At 50cc, you can go through a Grand Prix without seeing one. At 150cc, you can see two or three per race. This was the same game that rewarded you specifically for not only winning but being in 1st for the majority of the race. That is messed up.
3) Sonic and All-Stars Racing Transformed has an item that goes after the people in the first three places, but its design is one that I like quite a bit more. This is the Swarm, which creates a series of obstacles that are possible to dodge, but they ain't easy. Most likely it will slow down the people in the lead, but a skilled player can get around it with less precision than it takes to avoid a Blue Shell. (In this game, I also see it frequently that someone has a substantial lead, but other racers catch up with them before long--something in its mechanics accounted for this.)
I agree. all Stars racing Transformed had a better item. I prefer All Stars Racing to Mario kart 8.
When it's coming for you in 200cc rainbow road on the final lap
I still say No to blue shell. Its the start of a bombardment. Just I stuns me for a few seconds, but then a red shell. now its a longer stun and in 3rd. then another red shell. now in 6th and still cant do anything, now I have to catch up. Oh the race is over.....
Well dont just accept your imminent demise! You can beat the blue shell! (Or at least optimize your chances of not getting bombarded...) I believe in you! :D
at least someone does. The Rage is very strong with me :|
This. I think what should happen is that racers should get a few seconds of invulnerability after getting hit with an item, or at the very least, the blue shell. Getting hit with one blue shell isn't always so bad, especially if you're way out in front. But getting hit with 2 or more items back to back is extremely frustrating and just unfair. There is no almost no way to counter it since the blue shell knocks out any item you already had, you can't defend yourself after getting hit with one. Then comes a red shell. Then comes a green shell. Then comes a bullet bill which you couldn't have avoided because you've been stunned in place for 6 seconds while every single racer flies by you.
KatastropheTRΛP
well, in Mario Kart 8, the blue shell won't make you lose your item, if it's any consolation.
***** It does if you're dragging the item behind you, which is one reason why a skilled player only drags an item when needed (incoming red shell, for example).
I swear, if there's ever a Mario Kart movie they're going to play that speech at the beginning. XD
1:35 yeah, I was in first place and I got a blue shell, and out of curiosity, used it like an idiot because I thought it would go after the person in second place because I launched it.
"Most hated item of Mario kart is blue shell" *cough cough thunder cloud