Would also LOVE to know lots more about the FAST FOOT footing product and ICF footing bottom supports used in that application. Now I see it, in an adjacent video!
Thank you for your videos on building with a variety of innovative materials. It would be great if you could share the pros and cons of these structural materials when you post a video about them, or perhaps make one video comparing the pros and cons of the various structural materials (ICF, vs The Perfect Block vs stick built with the Zip system, etc.).
Steve, Have you or any other reputable Build Show associates ever built a COMPLETE ICF home? (Foundation to roof) I would think that this would be a great home specifically in areas that are prone to Tornadoes & other natural disasters? Would love to hear your professional take on this.
Good question. After seeing 3D printed concrete homes I thought the same thing. I would think using ICF up to the roof would make a tornado-proof and highly fire resistive home.
If driveways, interstate roadways and parking lot stops can be scoured - as in disappeared , imagine what happens to your foam exterior. Tornadoes are very unpredictable. Consider the damage to a 7 story tower rotated 4 inches on it foundation. The entire hospital was replaced due to extensive structural damage. The two wing towers were built in 1968, a year after I was born in same hospital. My grandfather went to survey an insurance claim in 1966. 6 month old house. Middle of house was missing as well as a new Chevrolet , parked in garage (found 2 blocks away). Outside wall of garage remained with work bench. On top of work bench were a couple paint cans and paper grocery sacks folded and held between cans and wall. You can anchor things down all you want, and generally it will stand up to most wind. But when a solid object is thrown thru the air (cars, trees, neighbor's roof) it will structurally damage your concrete wall. To personally survive you must either go underground or have good luck.
i didn’t one 35 years ago but the wall did not come out straight at all. the sub made it right by paying to have a 2x4 wall built inside around the entire perimeter. this video shows a full proof method of how to get a straight wall.
This foundation should be braced when ICF work is completed. The bracing is done at 5-6 ft spacing along each wall and at 4 ft horizontals approx. Lean the wall in before the pour, push the wall out to straight and plumb just after the pour. String line top of wall straight. A note about rebar, you can stager or alternate the horizontal courses of rebar mostly to the inside of the concrete ( if backfilling exterior of wall) , once all the ICF is installed and horizontal rebar installed, then drop vertical rebar down from top between the two corses of horizontal rebar, no ties required. Engineer spells out the amount and size of rebar PACIFIC ICF
LOGIX ICF is compatible with any type of exterior finishes that you'd use on a typical "stick framed" house or commercial project. LOGIX has embedded furring strips just below the surface of the foam located every 8" on centre. Twice what you'd typically have in a 16" OC framed wood structure. -- Jay from AMC Foam/LOGIX ICF
Any finish that you'd have on a regular house you can have on an ICF house. Just gotta watch your waterproofing and get something that is compatible with the foam insulation. You don't want to melt the foam off your brand new building
peel and stick is the waterproofing, cover that with a Dimple board up to grade, Above grade can be any non rotting material, metal flashing, parging, MGO, tile, stone etc. Wood or siding should be 8 " above grade. Hulk is a spray on waterproofing. Has to be compatable for EPS foam ( non solvent based) @@shannabolser9428
Please explain: 1) How do you connect ICF to the footing? 2) How do you waterproof Exterior side of the foundation wall? The foam will not protect 100%, Especially at The Sims where it stick/attached together vertically and horizontally. 3) Do you do footing with ICF too?
1, They are using fastfoot, which is a product where you pour both the footing and the first course of the ICF wall at the same time. Otherwise, in a standard setup, you pour your footing with vertical rebar sticking out of it, apply capillary break, then tie the first course of ICF rebar to that vertical rebar. 2, Either liquid or stick and peel membrane. Liquid must be solvent free, preferably STPE type or other water based type. There's also a hybrid approach like the Hulk system uses, but I haven't heard of too many people using it yet. For added insurance depending on conditions and depth, use a dimpled board on top of the membrane too with filter fabric. 3, see 1.
@@rafflesmaos Thank you! 1) What is capillary break? 2) Do you/they apply membrain to the exterior side of ICF? I didn't see it on the video. I guess you/they can apply before or after pouring concrete. I think applying directly to the concrete footing & the lower part of the foundation wall is better because ACF foam is a soft material and can get damaged.
@@genevelis6075 1, Capillary break is used for prevention of wicking from the footing to the ICF wall. I suspect it's not as much of an issue for fastfoot since it has a moisture barrier all the way around it. 2, Yes, always to the outside on the positive side on top of the outer layer of the EPS. Generally after pouring, because that's when various brackets that might be temporarily fastened to the outside are removed.
@@genevelis6075 By the way to expand on your original #3 a bit... there is a way to do insulated footers, for shallow foundations. One example is a product called Foot Hold, which is a bit similar to how ICF works. Even better in my non professional opinion is to do an insulated raft slab foundation (there are forms for that too), as long as basement is not needed...
@@rafflesmaos but they didn't do a monopour of the footing and the first course of the vertical wall. That's why they used the metal track to attach the first course of ICF block to the poured footing. A monopour of the footing and all or part of the the first and second courses, they just didn't do that in the wall they are showing as an example in this video. if you know of ANOTHER video they did a monopour in, please post it here.
On the steel stud starter form, is that placed on both sides of the form? Is there some type of siller or gasket placed on bottom for air sealing? Does it go all around the perimeter including the corners?
Can anyone explain why the ICF wall wouldn't need to be as thick as a regular formed concrete wall? @1:15 into the video, he says they normally do a 10" thick concrete wall, but with ICF they are doing a 6 1/4" wall. I've had contractors tell me left and right, that in Alabama we do a 12" formed concrete wall. Talking to an ICF supplier, they are saying anything over an 8" ICF concrete wall is overkill. Thanks for the help!
Wouldn't this and the footer dimensions be directly related to soil conditions and the size/height of the house? Definitely a question for an engineer and not some icf salesman or one-size-fits-all contractor.
@@rustyshackle917 Of course that is true, depending on the density of the hard pan and pressure of soil conditions against the wall, and the vertical weight of the building on the foundation but with all things being equal, if you increase the usage and thickness of rebar in the wall, you increase the strength of the concrete.
Not an expert, but that was a weird statement. Both concrete core of ICF and regular concrete wall need to be of a particular thickness and rebar schedule for the amount of load that they will be holding, there's no difference in that regard. What your supplier was referring to was above grade walls, where yes, over 8 inch is usually overkill and typically 6 inches is used for residential above grade walls. But again, anything below grade or complex weirdness above grade needs to be calculated by a structural engineer.
Hey Mark, LOGIX ICF manufacturing plants in the southern US have unique series of LOGIX ICF forms called the LOGIX TX series that do have a chemical treatment applied to deter termites. It does NOT replace standard termite mitigation techniques that you'd apply to any building. LOGIX TX is a secondary line of defense in high infestation areas. -- Jay from AMC Foam/LOGIX ICF
@@amcfoamtechDo you know if aluminum foil is a barrier to termites? I know their mandibles would be sharp enough and strong enough to cut through foil, but I wonder if they sense it as not suitable for tunneling. If this were the case, ICF manufacturers could stamp out aluminum foil barriers that could conform to the nubs of the ICF block and still allow the blocks to interlock. I assume waterproofing membranes deter termite tunneling also, but I don't know.
@@markstipulkoski1389 There are some ICF compatible waterproofing membrane products on the market that have been tested and approved as termite barriers, Soprema's peel and stick waterproofing is one of them that comes to mind. I'm not sure what thickness of aluminum foil would be required for that, generally speaking, we leave those details up to the pest control experts who are experienced in termite mitigation practices. They are the folks with the most experienced and knowledge on that topic. It's an interesting idea you have though and could very well be an option with the right testing! -- Jay from AMC Foam/LOGIX ICF
@@joesakal872 Yes, and that would be the main defense from the subterranean termites. But on the outside chance of a crack in the concrete footing, there may be a path for them to bypass the polyguard. If there is a metal barrier between courses of ICF blocks, the termites could go no further up the wall. BuildBlock ICF makes a flashing called BuildShield Termite and Fire Block. It is installed just above grade, forcing the termites to create visible mud tubes running up the side of the foundation, alerting pest control. My problem is with the cost and labor of that product. I have seen a video of termite tunnels behind the foil of foil-faced foam board. They didn't eat through that thin foil, but that might be because they had no reason to do so. I wonder if anyone had ever tested if something as thin as Renolds Wrap between ICF courses would stop the termites. ICF manufacturers could easily stamp aluminum foil to the shape of their ICF nubs and sell as a cheap and minimal labor termite blocker. It may not even be necessary to pre-stamp the foil.
Could you please tell us or provide the link of manufacturer to the viewers for the named of the electric rebar bender? The mfg. name of the ICF Blocks used? Thanks!
I didn't see how they splice the re-bar. When splicing re-bar, there are two ways. You touch the two bars together as they overlap, usually 36 diameters of the bar in length. it becomes more difficult for the concrete to go in and around the re-bar. You can save some steel and way is to bring the bars together and overlap them, but leave at least two bar diameters between the bars. The two bar diameters provide space for the concrete to go in, around, and between the bars and actually increase the strength.and the splice cam be shorter.
I hate icf mainly because people don't do them right. The water proof membrane is key to keeping water out. A lot of people don't leave the masonry exposed somewhere to dry out. Masonry loves to wick moisture. If masonry doesn't have somewhere to dry out the moisture goes into the rim joist pocket or stays in wall which molds and mildews. And if that rim joist pocket is spray foamed it rots. What stops the rebar from rusting? I was told rebar needs 4 inches of concrete to not rust in the concrete, but I am in rust belt. I use the fiberglass rebar when possible. I am still using long steel tubes with vehicle parked on one to bend rebar.
I believe the correct way to stop moisture wicking up the concrete core of the wall is to seal the footing first before installing the foam block. I would check the moisture content before hanging drywall and if need be run a dehumidifier or a few of them after the building is dried in. I want to try ICF with fiberglass rebar as I am going to be building close to the coast. Pre bent 90’s should work well similar to steel rebar.
So the proper thing you should’ve said is that you hate when people don’t build things correctly. It has nothing to do with the product but the installer. Your statement could go for any type of foundation that is improperly installed.
Could you give us you opinion and insight around the new fiber based rebar vs the steal? Thanks!
Great video! Thank you for showcasing a concrete build. I’d like to see more! Especially block and concrete. Alright!
This set of videos is perfect timing for my upcoming build. It has a stepped footer and build block ICF.
More ICF content please!
Would also LOVE to know lots more about the FAST FOOT footing product and ICF footing bottom supports used in that application. Now I see it, in an adjacent video!
Can’t wait to see you do an all ICF house one day Steve.
ICF's is the wat to go, liked#44 N Subbed!!!
Thank you for your videos on building with a variety of innovative materials. It would be great if you could share the pros and cons of these structural materials when you post a video about them, or perhaps make one video comparing the pros and cons of the various structural materials (ICF, vs The Perfect Block vs stick built with the Zip system, etc.).
Steve, Have you or any other reputable Build Show associates ever built a COMPLETE ICF home? (Foundation to roof) I would think that this would be a great home specifically in areas that are prone to Tornadoes & other natural disasters? Would love to hear your professional take on this.
Good question. After seeing 3D printed concrete homes I thought the same thing.
I would think using ICF up to the roof would make a tornado-proof and highly fire resistive home.
If driveways, interstate roadways and parking lot stops can be scoured - as in disappeared , imagine what happens to your foam exterior.
Tornadoes are very unpredictable. Consider the damage to a 7 story tower rotated 4 inches on it foundation. The entire hospital was replaced due to extensive structural damage. The two wing towers were built in 1968, a year after I was born in same hospital. My grandfather went to survey an insurance claim in 1966. 6 month old house. Middle of house was missing as well as a new Chevrolet , parked in garage (found 2 blocks away). Outside wall of garage remained with work bench. On top of work bench were a couple paint cans and paper grocery sacks folded and held between cans and wall.
You can anchor things down all you want, and generally it will stand up to most wind. But when a solid object is thrown thru the air (cars, trees, neighbor's roof) it will structurally damage your concrete wall.
To personally survive you must either go underground or have good luck.
So you’re saying they should be built out of wood instead. @@davepetrakos1192
What about domes they seem to fare pretty well when it comes to storm damage
i didn’t one 35 years ago but the wall did not come out straight at all. the sub made it right by paying to have a 2x4 wall built inside around the entire perimeter. this video shows a full proof method of how to get a straight wall.
This foundation should be braced when ICF work is completed. The bracing is done at 5-6 ft spacing along each wall and at 4 ft horizontals approx. Lean the wall in before the pour, push the wall out to straight and plumb just after the pour. String line top of wall straight. A note about rebar, you can stager or alternate the horizontal courses of rebar mostly to the inside of the concrete ( if backfilling exterior of wall) , once all the ICF is installed and horizontal rebar installed, then drop vertical rebar down from top between the two corses of horizontal rebar, no ties required. Engineer spells out the amount and size of rebar PACIFIC ICF
It will be interesting to see how this finishes out. What do you do to the exterior to protect the icf material.
LOGIX ICF is compatible with any type of exterior finishes that you'd use on a typical "stick framed" house or commercial project. LOGIX has embedded furring strips just below the surface of the foam located every 8" on centre. Twice what you'd typically have in a 16" OC framed wood structure. -- Jay from AMC Foam/LOGIX ICF
You can use an elimax or tremco liquid applied is usually the best way to go. 2 inch minimum spray foam as well.
Any finish that you'd have on a regular house you can have on an ICF house. Just gotta watch your waterproofing and get something that is compatible with the foam insulation. You don't want to melt the foam off your brand new building
peel and stick is the waterproofing, cover that with a Dimple board up to grade, Above grade can be any non rotting material, metal flashing, parging, MGO, tile, stone etc. Wood or siding should be 8 " above grade. Hulk is a spray on waterproofing. Has to be compatable for EPS foam ( non solvent based) @@shannabolser9428
the track trick is money!
Please explain:
1) How do you connect ICF to the footing?
2) How do you waterproof Exterior side of the foundation wall? The foam will not protect 100%, Especially at The Sims where it stick/attached together vertically and horizontally.
3) Do you do footing with ICF too?
1, They are using fastfoot, which is a product where you pour both the footing and the first course of the ICF wall at the same time. Otherwise, in a standard setup, you pour your footing with vertical rebar sticking out of it, apply capillary break, then tie the first course of ICF rebar to that vertical rebar.
2, Either liquid or stick and peel membrane. Liquid must be solvent free, preferably STPE type or other water based type. There's also a hybrid approach like the Hulk system uses, but I haven't heard of too many people using it yet. For added insurance depending on conditions and depth, use a dimpled board on top of the membrane too with filter fabric.
3, see 1.
@@rafflesmaos Thank you!
1) What is capillary break?
2) Do you/they apply membrain to the exterior side of ICF? I didn't see it on the video. I guess you/they can apply before or after pouring concrete.
I think applying directly to the concrete footing & the lower part of the foundation wall is better because ACF foam is a soft material and can get damaged.
@@genevelis6075 1, Capillary break is used for prevention of wicking from the footing to the ICF wall. I suspect it's not as much of an issue for fastfoot since it has a moisture barrier all the way around it.
2, Yes, always to the outside on the positive side on top of the outer layer of the EPS. Generally after pouring, because that's when various brackets that might be temporarily fastened to the outside are removed.
@@genevelis6075 By the way to expand on your original #3 a bit... there is a way to do insulated footers, for shallow foundations. One example is a product called Foot Hold, which is a bit similar to how ICF works. Even better in my non professional opinion is to do an insulated raft slab foundation (there are forms for that too), as long as basement is not needed...
@@rafflesmaos but they didn't do a monopour of the footing and the first course of the vertical wall. That's why they used the metal track to attach the first course of ICF block to the poured footing. A monopour of the footing and all or part of the the first and second courses, they just didn't do that in the wall they are showing as an example in this video. if you know of ANOTHER video they did a monopour in, please post it here.
On the steel stud starter form, is that placed on both sides of the form? Is there some type of siller or gasket placed on bottom for air sealing? Does it go all around the perimeter including the corners?
How does he like those fast footers? Frostline? Shallow protected with additional insulation? More ICF
Can anyone explain why the ICF wall wouldn't need to be as thick as a regular formed concrete wall? @1:15 into the video, he says they normally do a 10" thick concrete wall, but with ICF they are doing a 6 1/4" wall. I've had contractors tell me left and right, that in Alabama we do a 12" formed concrete wall. Talking to an ICF supplier, they are saying anything over an 8" ICF concrete wall is overkill. Thanks for the help!
You use more rebar in an ICF wall.
Wouldn't this and the footer dimensions be directly related to soil conditions and the size/height of the house? Definitely a question for an engineer and not some icf salesman or one-size-fits-all contractor.
@@rustyshackle917 Of course that is true, depending on the density of the hard pan and pressure of soil conditions against the wall, and the vertical weight of the building on the foundation but with all things being equal, if you increase the usage and thickness of rebar in the wall, you increase the strength of the concrete.
Not an expert, but that was a weird statement. Both concrete core of ICF and regular concrete wall need to be of a particular thickness and rebar schedule for the amount of load that they will be holding, there's no difference in that regard.
What your supplier was referring to was above grade walls, where yes, over 8 inch is usually overkill and typically 6 inches is used for residential above grade walls. But again, anything below grade or complex weirdness above grade needs to be calculated by a structural engineer.
Steve, any issues with termite infiltration into the icf blocks
Hey Mark, LOGIX ICF manufacturing plants in the southern US have unique series of LOGIX ICF forms called the LOGIX TX series that do have a chemical treatment applied to deter termites. It does NOT replace standard termite mitigation techniques that you'd apply to any building. LOGIX TX is a secondary line of defense in high infestation areas. -- Jay from AMC Foam/LOGIX ICF
@@amcfoamtechDo you know if aluminum foil is a barrier to termites? I know their mandibles would be sharp enough and strong enough to cut through foil, but I wonder if they sense it as not suitable for tunneling. If this were the case, ICF manufacturers could stamp out aluminum foil barriers that could conform to the nubs of the ICF block and still allow the blocks to interlock. I assume waterproofing membranes deter termite tunneling also, but I don't know.
@@markstipulkoski1389 There are some ICF compatible waterproofing membrane products on the market that have been tested and approved as termite barriers, Soprema's peel and stick waterproofing is one of them that comes to mind.
I'm not sure what thickness of aluminum foil would be required for that, generally speaking, we leave those details up to the pest control experts who are experienced in termite mitigation practices. They are the folks with the most experienced and knowledge on that topic. It's an interesting idea you have though and could very well be an option with the right testing! -- Jay from AMC Foam/LOGIX ICF
Polyguard makes a term barrier product that doubles as a waterproof membrane.
@@joesakal872 Yes, and that would be the main defense from the subterranean termites. But on the outside chance of a crack in the concrete footing, there may be a path for them to bypass the polyguard. If there is a metal barrier between courses of ICF blocks, the termites could go no further up the wall. BuildBlock ICF makes a flashing called BuildShield Termite and Fire Block. It is installed just above grade, forcing the termites to create visible mud tubes running up the side of the foundation, alerting pest control. My problem is with the cost and labor of that product. I have seen a video of termite tunnels behind the foil of foil-faced foam board. They didn't eat through that thin foil, but that might be because they had no reason to do so. I wonder if anyone had ever tested if something as thin as Renolds Wrap between ICF courses would stop the termites. ICF manufacturers could easily stamp aluminum foil to the shape of their ICF nubs and sell as a cheap and minimal labor termite blocker. It may not even be necessary to pre-stamp the foil.
Steve, How does ICF compare to Omni Block? Cost, Thermal mass and other features.
hope to see Sublime cement used soon. 90% less GHG emissions and same structural performance.
Cost info including savings for adding rigid insulation later to formed wall would be appreciated
Could you please tell us or provide the link of manufacturer to the viewers for the named of the electric rebar bender? The mfg. name of the ICF Blocks used? Thanks!
I didn't see how they splice the re-bar. When splicing re-bar, there are two ways. You touch the two bars together as they overlap, usually 36 diameters of the bar in length. it becomes more difficult for the concrete to go in and around the re-bar. You can save some steel and way is to bring the bars together and overlap them, but leave at least two bar diameters between the bars. The two bar diameters provide space for the concrete to go in, around, and between the bars and actually increase the strength.and the splice cam be shorter.
Whats the width of block you'd need for a post frame building?
I used Polycrete ICFs with a steel core instead of a plastic one. Much sturdier.
Interested in how you treat the assembly above-grade. Are there many options or just some kind of parge/stucco coat?
I hate icf mainly because people don't do them right. The water proof membrane is key to keeping water out. A lot of people don't leave the masonry exposed somewhere to dry out. Masonry loves to wick moisture. If masonry doesn't have somewhere to dry out the moisture goes into the rim joist pocket or stays in wall which molds and mildews. And if that rim joist pocket is spray foamed it rots. What stops the rebar from rusting? I was told rebar needs 4 inches of concrete to not rust in the concrete, but I am in rust belt. I use the fiberglass rebar when possible. I am still using long steel tubes with vehicle parked on one to bend rebar.
A lot of ppl do little to nothing about water on footings.its not just icf
I believe the correct way to stop moisture wicking up the concrete core of the wall is to seal the footing first before installing the foam block. I would check the moisture content before hanging drywall and if need be run a dehumidifier or a few of them after the building is dried in.
I want to try ICF with fiberglass rebar as I am going to be building close to the coast. Pre bent 90’s should work well similar to steel rebar.
So the proper thing you should’ve said is that you hate when people don’t build things correctly. It has nothing to do with the product but the installer. Your statement could go for any type of foundation that is improperly installed.
As long as you say "footing" and not "footer," I'll keep watching.
Hernandez Matthew Garcia Frank Wilson Anthony
Perez Jessica Rodriguez Kenneth Perez Timothy
Just can’t use in termite country!
Martin Christopher Smith Mary Rodriguez Thomas
shame the metal track creates a thermal bridge to bypass the insulation
Johnson Linda Rodriguez Anthony Jackson Kevin
Jackson Deborah Harris Mary Jackson Donna
Miller Scott White Paul Lee Daniel
Taylor Shirley Harris Jessica White Matthew
Robinson Edward Anderson Anthony Clark Karen
Moore Margaret Young Edward Thompson Lisa