I can personally testify that ICF is the best quality and most cost effective over time. Sound blocking is also phenomenal and often overlooked. Built some ICF homes back in 2007/08 in Corpus Christi. First ever icf in Port Aransas tx. Market crash and divorce killed construction biz in 08 went into real estate since then to this date. Still did some major remodels for clients through the years and if ever get back in the construction biz ICF would be it. It’s so far superior and labor friendly. Want to do a ICF pool on our place in the woods north of Houston. Maybe by the end of 2025 if I do I will go to one of your classes. I want to make the pool solar powered which I should be able to do hear with a ICF pool I believe. Carry on and keep forging ahead!
We completed our ICF house in the fall of 2019. Best decision we made when it came to building our house. Our average monthly utility cost on a 3,800 sq ft house is about $150. If I ever build again I will absolutely use ICF and recommend it to everyone. I’ve even kept a piece of the form for “show and tell”. Can’t recommend it enough.
I finished our 3700 sqft air-tight monopoly framed home in July and our average is $125 a month based on $0.13 a kWh.. I would have thought ICF would be much lower. What are your energy costs per kWh?
@ our average would be around $.08/kWh I believe. I keep my house pretty cool, so I use a lot of power. I have a coworker whose house is about 2200 sq ft typical wood framed and their monthly electric bill is over $350 on level billing. Another coworkers home is 2600 sq ft 2x6 framed with spray foam and their bill is over $250 with level billing.
@@Squireboy I average 1000 kwh a month and I keep the house at 68-70 in the summer and 72-74 in the winter. I am using a 3-ton Unit for cooling that has a 50% turndown, with radiant in floor for heat with heat pump as secondary or for shoulder season temps. My kWhs go down in winter and up in summer as I use an on-demand boiler for my heat and hot water.
ICF is a great product and totally worth it. The only alternative is using forms or cement blocks and closed cell foam on the outside to waterproof and insulate. They do this with industrial-type buildings (ex: Schools, Grocery Stores, etc). If you are building a century home, I would go with either ICF or Forms/Block with Spray foam. If you want to really go full out, use open cell foam (1/2lb) on your inside walls, and then when drywalling, use 2 layers of 1/4 inch drywall. I've seen a house like this and it was like a bunker. You could heat it with a candle and cool it with an ice cube and a bomb could go off outside and you would never hear it. I tell folks, you'll spend 10's of thousands on cabinets and countertops that can be changed out relatively easily, but you typically have one chance to invest in the mechanical and structure of your house and that is where every dollar can make a huge difference. How many million-dollar homes I've been in that are insulated like crap and uncomfortable, but wow did they have nice kitchens and bathrooms..... 😆
With the diy component of ICF, pulling most of the labor out makes it even more attractive. Making plans to build my next one this way right now!! Thanks for the time to put this together!
Sure thing! When u get plans send them to support@all3pools.com and we can help you with elements icf, fab form bracing and tons of other ancillary products!
this is really well done, Aaron, & a step above the previous cost comp vids. for closer apples in efficiency, probably need offset framing on a 2x8 plate to get rid of most thermal bridging ...even with the 2" closed-cell, zip, etc on a stick build. complexity & difficulty increase, esp for corners, which also means hiring framers experienced with those techniques. *TIME* itself is another factor, as juggling schedules for all the different trades & how much longer it takes them (drilling holes, etc) impacts a construction loan you're likely paying for before ever living in it. lumping footer, framing, sheathing, insulation, etc all in one saves quite a bit of time.
I agree and hopefully can figure out a way to articulate it in a vid, I’m helping a guy in orange co California who was quoted a mint and 6 months to install icf and decking, working with him to build his own crew and use elements I tho he can shave 3-4 months easily!
Double 2 by 4 stud, structural exterior sheet rock, 2 layers of rockwool r 13 insulation. THe south wall, the glass wall ,window wall, , 2 by 4 or 2 by 6. Sound control, r 24 performance, vapor moves thru the wall.
Thanks 😁. And it did take longer to get things up to the 5 levels especially because I did most of it by hand, including all the floor sheathing by myself 😅
Thank you for these videos! I show these to the wife so she can see the benefits along with a realistic cost associated with ICF construction. I want to build a generational house designed with future additions in mind that could support older relatives, kids, grandkids, etc. ICF seems to be the best way to build a lasting home for our future family. Merry Christmas!
Sounds perfect for Puerto Vallarta because of the hurricanes and earthquakes. Moisture issues with traditional block wall construction as PV is a tropical location. Nice!
The side benefits such as lower insurance is a struggle. It's something out of the ordinary so insurers are not used to evaluating it. So there's always resistance for them to do something new and different. I've had so many instances where I have to explain what an ICF house is and what the benefits are so I can get a more advantageous rate. And if you don't fight for it they just evaluate it as a traditional house and don't give you any discount. Even after you've explain it they can always just say we're not familiar with that type of construction and can't give you any discount.
That’s when you shop for someone who isn’t complacent, I understand completely but they’re out there and several of us are getting calls to come speak to big insurance conventions now all the time to educate the industry, so don’t reward those who resist!
@@all3pools I hope the industries catch on sooner than later. It's so annoying to talk to people who aren''t aware of advantages and won't listen to new ideas.
I don't understand why insurance should be less for ICF. Replacement costs are higher and isn't that what insurance is supposed to do? Foam does burn. It would be advantageous in areas with drive-by-shootings.
What size core were you using for the ICF blocks in this comparison/calculation? If you said, I apologize I must’ve missed it. Also very interested in building my own ICF home in northern MO. Are your trainings available to the general public or are they more geared towards contractors?
i like the breakdown. havent dove into your content full on yet, so maybe this next question is in another vid: what about the trades and how they install what they need? also, roofs; are they easier to put on (most likely are IF the crew knows what to do) ?? p.s definitely want my next house to be icf. all around makes sense. again, great work team.
It's on our list -- we will probably ruffle some feathers by showing that with most trades, it's easier, not harder. They will often bid more for their work on an ICF house, which needs to change.
Thank you. Super helpful but don’t agree with how expensive a styrofoam block is. Seems like the supply easily outpaces the demand. What is the profit margin on the blocks alone? 90%?
@ I guess I was just typing what came to mind… thinking that styrofoam (styrene/polystyrene) comes from petroleum so it is an abundantly available natural resource. I will be curious to see if lowering petroleum costs has any effect on ICF manufacturing and pricing, and how much cheaper fuel, less regulation, and less tax on fuel reduces the price of concrete. Basically, just saying that I am optimistic that if manufacturers lower the MARKUP of ICF blocks… I might be able to afford to build in 2025.
I just finished a DIY ICF shell for a 48’ tall and 72’ long by 34’ wide home for around $14 a face square foot. But that includes all the rebar which because of the height and room under the garage was more money. But my biggest extra expense is that I had to pay almost $100 more per yard for concrete 😢 and because I am in an earthquake zone my walls are 8” concrete all the way to the top. There is over 1 million pounds of concrete in my multigenerational home. And my walls are plumb and straight 🎉😊 So if you get a good icf consultant this is diy possible.
Also 48’ tall would be let’s say, higher than typical…. Costs go up as you height goes up, just slower to get all products elevated…. $14 is pretty awesome given your constraints! I know guys who’d have attempted to get $35-40 out of u!
I think you should up the amount of spray foam you are using to 4" thick to even out the actual R-Value of the ICF block and thermal mass of the concrete. I know you are also doing a basic calculation for comparison. From the ICF builders I've talked to the cost difference between stick frame and ICF is stated at 5-10% more.
how can labor for the ICF be so much more expensive than for stick built? The ICF blocks are easier to put up. Buy prefab joists and roof trusses for the ICF. Should be less labor not more. With stick built your custom building every wall. It doesn't make sense.
I’m comparing it to the best sheeting, obviously anything inferior to zip which is already inferior to ICF would be even less comparable so I don’t think I’m skewing anything… What garbage sheathing would you like me to compare ittoo?
no water proofing of the ICF walls? Given this scenario, 40'X60', 200 linear feet, there is 1400' of unprotected/non-sealed styrofoam seams. If you have to waterpoof it below grade....you should have to waterproof it above grade too. ICF concrete is by no means 'water proof' and nor is an ICF block wall UNLESS it's been waterproofed (ie. peel/stick/ or spray/roll-on sealants). Water proofing ICF is NOT cheap, i think you should include some waterproofing expense for this example. All that being said, what are your thoughts about waterproofing above grade (on ICF builds)? Rain/water shield? Rain/water gapping? (1/2" air barrier for water shed and evap)? I'm building an ICF home/garage/shop this spring and these are the things I'm torn on, you never really see any 'pro ICF' builders/sellers discuss this with any intelligent arguments for/against etc. One more question, how do you design ICF walls (great walls or 'window walls') that have many windows in them where the window spacing is "close" together? ie. windows are 6" apart (typical large window wall spacing). Do you wood frame that section? What is the minimum window/window spacing that you recommend for ICF construction? Thanks for all the ICF info/videos and your passion to share with us.
I would go with water proof peel and stick + dimple mat below grade and water repellent peel and stick above grade on the seams, because ICF is using a closed cell foam. In terms of design of openings you probably need to follow the same guidelines as for concrete / CMU blocks, in terms of additional rebar / angled iron placement above the openings and next to it or the minimal size of support for the reinforced sections (I think for CMU blocks it's 6 or 8 inches). Two things to keep in mind is that more rebar doesn't mean stronger structure and to not get close with rebar to the edge of your opening or you will have a weak spot there. Best thing to do is to have a chat with a structural engineer. It will be money well spent.
That doesn’t make sense, you waterproof below grade for ground contact and ground water movement and control, above grade, behind whatever veneer you’ve chosen is absolutely unnecessary and doesn’t need to be factored in…
@@all3pools technically above grade you can ignore it, because of the siding and the fact that ICF should have minimal styrofoam gaps, however, from what I recall, if you were to build a regular concrete wall + siding, then you would need to incorporate either a water resistant concrete mix or parging or coating. This suggests that it might be worth to tape the seams depending on how exposed the building is going to be to horizontal penetration.
@@all3pools Thanks for the reply. That seems to be the ICF consensus. My question was 'what if' you have a leak behind your 'veneer' (could be anything, bad flashing, ice dam, poor siding install, etc) and now you actually have water behind the veneer. Doesn't that water pose a risk to the wall/inside? The concrete is not water proof, and trying to track down a leak on the inside that propagated there through a conrete crack and however many feet of ICF block seams (which haven't been sealed), sounds very risky to me. It's why getting your below grade water proofing is so important due to the difficulty in tracking down a leak source if one pops up. I mean, if money/time didn't matter and you could snap your fingers and have a peel and stick magically appear on the above grade walls, wouldn't you think that would be a plus? (just added insurance). Just my 2 cents. Thanks for all the content.
Use tyvek etc. Behind your siding Do not use prosecco cat 5 icf. It is absolute garbage. They should not be marketing that product for icf at all. There was a similar liquid applied from another company that was discontinued for the same reason Stay away from the liquid applied stp crap
@@all3pools no mental gymnastics just modern high high-efficiency building practices these days. Can't comment on wind protection, but it would be the same as a normal 2x6 wall with zip for sheathing as this is what the wall comprises. Same or better R-value than ICF and is much much cheaper. The wall is rated as 'structural 1'.
I think I am going to switch to this product and stop using the more expensive and no longer dominant Nudura (lost patents so no longer worth the higher cost in my opinion). Now if only lite deck would come down in price...
@@all3pools But it requires a larger support system, right? Light Deck is every 6' and I thought BD was 24". Also easier to install, but since this is all for my own builds, time really isn't the issue..
So, it's about 30% more ($165 / $238) to build with ICF than the very best 2x6 and spray foam, with Zip-R sheathing and tape. You said that method comes within about 20% in terms of insulation value. You're not exactly making a compelling case for ICF, which I think is a great option, if you can find a builder who really knows what they're doing with it. That's still the biggest challenge.
So that wasn’t zip r, it would be closer if you overpaid for that stuff…. And you’d lose a lot of shear stength…. Come out here and help make a compelling case for the structural side, I’m sure I could use the help
So your spreadsheet shows about $15 per sq ft of wall. Is that your cost as business owner? Or the cost you charge the owner? My business cost (with rebar, concrete, pump truck, block and labor) per sq ft of ICF wall is $16 (with dealer pricing on block) so obviously I can't charge that price above to clients...
I think your price is pretty high if you mean true costs…. We were heavily rounding our current, pretty complex job to the high side to get it up there…. We’d likely be charging 24ish retail, that wasn’t the point of this vid, we are showing cost to cost to people who can take the bill by the horns and do things, because it’s not that much more when u can and all in its often less!
My brother works for a national cement company and he said that they're expecting ready mix prices going up. Pot ash as a by-product of coal fired power plants is greatly used as a filler material. Since so many coal power plants are going away so will this cheap material. Hope the industry can find an alternative.
Another excuse to raise the price of concrete…. Bottom line it will continue with real reasons and invented ones until the economy falters and demand drops…
@All3 Powered by ICF Guru!, Aaron could you tell me more about the FORTIFIED Program, we will be building in the state of Maine and would love to find out more...Liked#62 N Subbed... P.s. I like those ICF's what an upgrade over others!!!
I can personally testify that ICF is the best quality and most cost effective over time. Sound blocking is also phenomenal and often overlooked. Built some ICF homes back in 2007/08 in Corpus Christi. First ever icf in Port Aransas tx. Market crash and divorce killed construction biz in 08 went into real estate since then to this date. Still did some major remodels for clients through the years and if ever get back in the construction biz ICF would be it. It’s so far superior and labor friendly. Want to do a ICF pool on our place in the woods north of Houston. Maybe by the end of 2025 if I do I will go to one of your classes. I want to make the pool solar powered which I should be able to do hear with a ICF pool I believe. Carry on and keep forging ahead!
We completed our ICF house in the fall of 2019. Best decision we made when it came to building our house. Our average monthly utility cost on a 3,800 sq ft house is about $150. If I ever build again I will absolutely use ICF and recommend it to everyone. I’ve even kept a piece of the form for “show and tell”. Can’t recommend it enough.
I finished our 3700 sqft air-tight monopoly framed home in July and our average is $125 a month based on $0.13 a kWh.. I would have thought ICF would be much lower. What are your energy costs per kWh?
@ our average would be around $.08/kWh I believe. I keep my house pretty cool, so I use a lot of power. I have a coworker whose house is about 2200 sq ft typical wood framed and their monthly electric bill is over $350 on level billing. Another coworkers home is 2600 sq ft 2x6 framed with spray foam and their bill is over $250 with level billing.
@@Squireboy I average 1000 kwh a month and I keep the house at 68-70 in the summer and 72-74 in the winter. I am using a 3-ton Unit for cooling that has a 50% turndown, with radiant in floor for heat with heat pump as secondary or for shoulder season temps. My kWhs go down in winter and up in summer as I use an on-demand boiler for my heat and hot water.
Was that $150 per sq ft for you to to work or for a company to do the work?
Fantastic!
ICF is a great product and totally worth it. The only alternative is using forms or cement blocks and closed cell foam on the outside to waterproof and insulate. They do this with industrial-type buildings (ex: Schools, Grocery Stores, etc). If you are building a century home, I would go with either ICF or Forms/Block with Spray foam. If you want to really go full out, use open cell foam (1/2lb) on your inside walls, and then when drywalling, use 2 layers of 1/4 inch drywall. I've seen a house like this and it was like a bunker. You could heat it with a candle and cool it with an ice cube and a bomb could go off outside and you would never hear it.
I tell folks, you'll spend 10's of thousands on cabinets and countertops that can be changed out relatively easily, but you typically have one chance to invest in the mechanical and structure of your house and that is where every dollar can make a huge difference. How many million-dollar homes I've been in that are insulated like crap and uncomfortable, but wow did they have nice kitchens and bathrooms..... 😆
With the diy component of ICF, pulling most of the labor out makes it even more attractive. Making plans to build my next one this way right now!!
Thanks for the time to put this together!
Sure thing! When u get plans send them to support@all3pools.com and we can help you with elements icf, fab form bracing and tons of other ancillary products!
this is really well done, Aaron, & a step above the previous cost comp vids.
for closer apples in efficiency, probably need offset framing on a 2x8 plate to get rid of most thermal bridging ...even with the 2" closed-cell, zip, etc on a stick build. complexity & difficulty increase, esp for corners, which also means hiring framers experienced with those techniques. *TIME* itself is another factor, as juggling schedules for all the different trades & how much longer it takes them (drilling holes, etc) impacts a construction loan you're likely paying for before ever living in it. lumping footer, framing, sheathing, insulation, etc all in one saves quite a bit of time.
I agree and hopefully can figure out a way to articulate it in a vid, I’m helping a guy in orange co California who was quoted a mint and 6 months to install icf and decking, working with him to build his own crew and use elements I tho he can shave 3-4 months easily!
Double 2 by 4 stud, structural exterior sheet rock, 2 layers of rockwool r 13 insulation. THe south wall, the glass wall ,window wall, , 2 by 4 or 2 by 6. Sound control, r 24 performance, vapor moves thru the wall.
Love your videos! I appreciate the honesty!!!
You’re welcome
Thanks! I always look forward to these videos.
Thank you! I know you're a busy man, I apreciate it.
Thanks 😁. And it did take longer to get things up to the 5 levels especially because I did most of it by hand, including all the floor sheathing by myself 😅
Thank you for these videos! I show these to the wife so she can see the benefits along with a realistic cost associated with ICF construction. I want to build a generational house designed with future additions in mind that could support older relatives, kids, grandkids, etc. ICF seems to be the best way to build a lasting home for our future family. Merry Christmas!
Sounds perfect for Puerto Vallarta because of the hurricanes and earthquakes. Moisture issues with traditional block wall construction as PV is a tropical location. Nice!
The side benefits such as lower insurance is a struggle. It's something out of the ordinary so insurers are not used to evaluating it. So there's always resistance for them to do something new and different. I've had so many instances where I have to explain what an ICF house is and what the benefits are so I can get a more advantageous rate. And if you don't fight for it they just evaluate it as a traditional house and don't give you any discount. Even after you've explain it they can always just say we're not familiar with that type of construction and can't give you any discount.
That’s when you shop for someone who isn’t complacent, I understand completely but they’re out there and several of us are getting calls to come speak to big insurance conventions now all the time to educate the industry, so don’t reward those who resist!
@@all3pools I hope the industries catch on sooner than later. It's so annoying to talk to people who aren''t aware of advantages and won't listen to new ideas.
I don't understand why insurance should be less for ICF. Replacement costs are higher and isn't that what insurance is supposed to do? Foam does burn. It would be advantageous in areas with drive-by-shootings.
@@badawesomegreat “point”. Concrete walls burn too, right?
What size core were you using for the ICF blocks in this comparison/calculation? If you said, I apologize I must’ve missed it.
Also very interested in building my own ICF home in northern MO. Are your trainings available to the general public or are they more geared towards contractors?
6” core, training is open to public for now, at least through this summer, next one is in February, email support@all3pools.com for info
i like the breakdown. havent dove into your content full on yet, so maybe this next question is in another vid: what about the trades and how they install what they need? also, roofs; are they easier to put on (most likely are IF the crew knows what to do) ??
p.s definitely want my next house to be icf. all around makes sense. again, great work team.
Thanks
It's on our list -- we will probably ruffle some feathers by showing that with most trades, it's easier, not harder. They will often bid more for their work on an ICF house, which needs to change.
Thank you. Super helpful but don’t agree with how expensive a styrofoam block is. Seems like the supply easily outpaces the demand. What is the profit margin on the blocks alone? 90%?
I’m not sure what you are saying?
@ I guess I was just typing what came to mind… thinking that styrofoam (styrene/polystyrene) comes from petroleum so it is an abundantly available natural resource. I will be curious to see if lowering petroleum costs has any effect on ICF manufacturing and pricing, and how much cheaper fuel, less regulation, and less tax on fuel reduces the price of concrete. Basically, just saying that I am optimistic that if manufacturers lower the MARKUP of ICF blocks… I might be able to afford to build in 2025.
@@mcchupka9718 The foam is made from nat gas. The real cost is how slow the blocks are to make and how hard they are to handle/ship.
Great content as usual! Are you doing any Education classes at WOC?
Don’t think I’m doing any education there, I’ll be hanging out with fab form and the guys from element so we’ll see!
I just finished a DIY ICF shell for a 48’ tall and 72’ long by 34’ wide home for around $14 a face square foot. But that includes all the rebar which because of the height and room under the garage was more money. But my biggest extra expense is that I had to pay almost $100 more per yard for concrete 😢 and because I am in an earthquake zone my walls are 8” concrete all the way to the top. There is over 1 million pounds of concrete in my multigenerational home.
And my walls are plumb and straight 🎉😊
So if you get a good icf consultant this is diy possible.
Also 48’ tall would be let’s say, higher than typical…. Costs go up as you height goes up, just slower to get all products elevated…. $14 is pretty awesome given your constraints! I know guys who’d have attempted to get $35-40 out of u!
i’m sold
on ICF, just need to find a good architect in so cal for my build. Any ideas?
Architect of engineer?
@@all3poolswhoever can design my house. What do you recommend?
I think you should up the amount of spray foam you are using to 4" thick to even out the actual R-Value of the ICF block and thermal mass of the concrete. I know you are also doing a basic calculation for comparison. From the ICF builders I've talked to the cost difference between stick frame and ICF is stated at 5-10% more.
The icf builders you’ve talked to also didn’t show their math…🤔, easy to keep a premium on pricing when u just throw around generalities!
Wouldn’t using helix micro rebar reduce the rebar cost?
No
@ really no having to spend on rebar placement isn’t costly?
this is a good time to build then.🎉
I live in dallas Texas. Any suggestions on ICF builders here?
Yes email me at aaron.king@all3pools.com I have a contact for u
I’m from Mo STL area. Interested in being a distributor. Got any helpful information?
Distributing what?
how can labor for the ICF be so much more expensive than for stick built? The ICF blocks are easier to put up. Buy prefab joists and roof trusses for the ICF. Should be less labor not more. With stick built your custom building every wall. It doesn't make sense.
Yeah man I’m thinking the same thing. Labor is where you make your money so shouldn’t be priced equally or am I missing something?
It is all about demand and supply. Skilled labor for ICF is limited thus, they are priced higher.
Why are you comparing this to zip board sheeting ? Is that the only sheeting? Seems you skewed the costs there
I’m comparing it to the best sheeting, obviously anything inferior to zip which is already inferior to ICF would be even less comparable so I don’t think I’m skewing anything… What garbage sheathing would you like me to compare ittoo?
no water proofing of the ICF walls? Given this scenario, 40'X60', 200 linear feet, there is 1400' of unprotected/non-sealed styrofoam seams. If you have to waterpoof it below grade....you should have to waterproof it above grade too. ICF concrete is by no means 'water proof' and nor is an ICF block wall UNLESS it's been waterproofed (ie. peel/stick/ or spray/roll-on sealants). Water proofing ICF is NOT cheap, i think you should include some waterproofing expense for this example. All that being said, what are your thoughts about waterproofing above grade (on ICF builds)? Rain/water shield? Rain/water gapping? (1/2" air barrier for water shed and evap)? I'm building an ICF home/garage/shop this spring and these are the things I'm torn on, you never really see any 'pro ICF' builders/sellers discuss this with any intelligent arguments for/against etc.
One more question, how do you design ICF walls (great walls or 'window walls') that have many windows in them where the window spacing is "close" together? ie. windows are 6" apart (typical large window wall spacing). Do you wood frame that section? What is the minimum window/window spacing that you recommend for ICF construction?
Thanks for all the ICF info/videos and your passion to share with us.
I would go with water proof peel and stick + dimple mat below grade and water repellent peel and stick above grade on the seams, because ICF is using a closed cell foam. In terms of design of openings you probably need to follow the same guidelines as for concrete / CMU blocks, in terms of additional rebar / angled iron placement above the openings and next to it or the minimal size of support for the reinforced sections (I think for CMU blocks it's 6 or 8 inches). Two things to keep in mind is that more rebar doesn't mean stronger structure and to not get close with rebar to the edge of your opening or you will have a weak spot there. Best thing to do is to have a chat with a structural engineer. It will be money well spent.
That doesn’t make sense, you waterproof below grade for ground contact and ground water movement and control, above grade, behind whatever veneer you’ve chosen is absolutely unnecessary and doesn’t need to be factored in…
@@all3pools technically above grade you can ignore it, because of the siding and the fact that ICF should have minimal styrofoam gaps, however, from what I recall, if you were to build a regular concrete wall + siding, then you would need to incorporate either a water resistant concrete mix or parging or coating. This suggests that it might be worth to tape the seams depending on how exposed the building is going to be to horizontal penetration.
@@all3pools Thanks for the reply. That seems to be the ICF consensus. My question was 'what if' you have a leak behind your 'veneer' (could be anything, bad flashing, ice dam, poor siding install, etc) and now you actually have water behind the veneer. Doesn't that water pose a risk to the wall/inside? The concrete is not water proof, and trying to track down a leak on the inside that propagated there through a conrete crack and however many feet of ICF block seams (which haven't been sealed), sounds very risky to me. It's why getting your below grade water proofing is so important due to the difficulty in tracking down a leak source if one pops up. I mean, if money/time didn't matter and you could snap your fingers and have a peel and stick magically appear on the above grade walls, wouldn't you think that would be a plus? (just added insurance). Just my 2 cents. Thanks for all the content.
Use tyvek etc. Behind your siding
Do not use prosecco cat 5 icf. It is absolute garbage. They should not be marketing that product for icf at all. There was a similar liquid applied from another company that was discontinued for the same reason
Stay away from the liquid applied stp crap
wrap the outside with r5 1" rigid foam board and it eliminates thermal bridging and meets the same total r value
Doing a lot of costly mental gymnastics to avoid using a superior product eh? Is that 1” foam going to give you 250-300 mph wind protection too?
@@all3pools no mental gymnastics just modern high high-efficiency building practices these days. Can't comment on wind protection, but it would be the same as a normal 2x6 wall with zip for sheathing as this is what the wall comprises. Same or better R-value than ICF and is much much cheaper. The wall is rated as 'structural 1'.
$205 a yard here. Generally low cost area except for concrete.
We may start diving into the way concrete is priced around the country in some vids
I think I am going to switch to this product and stop using the more expensive and no longer dominant Nudura (lost patents so no longer worth the higher cost in my opinion). Now if only lite deck would come down in price...
Build deck is a cheaper option…
@@all3pools But it requires a larger support system, right? Light Deck is every 6' and I thought BD was 24". Also easier to install, but since this is all for my own builds, time really isn't the issue..
So, it's about 30% more ($165 / $238) to build with ICF than the very best 2x6 and spray foam, with Zip-R sheathing and tape. You said that method comes within about 20% in terms of insulation value. You're not exactly making a compelling case for ICF, which I think is a great option, if you can find a builder who really knows what they're doing with it. That's still the biggest challenge.
So that wasn’t zip r, it would be closer if you overpaid for that stuff…. And you’d lose a lot of shear stength…. Come out here and help make a compelling case for the structural side, I’m sure I could use the help
So your spreadsheet shows about $15 per sq ft of wall. Is that your cost as business owner? Or the cost you charge the owner? My business cost (with rebar, concrete, pump truck, block and labor) per sq ft of ICF wall is $16 (with dealer pricing on block) so obviously I can't charge that price above to clients...
I think your price is pretty high if you mean true costs…. We were heavily rounding our current, pretty complex job to the high side to get it up there…. We’d likely be charging 24ish retail, that wasn’t the point of this vid, we are showing cost to cost to people who can take the bill by the horns and do things, because it’s not that much more when u can and all in its often less!
My brother works for a national cement company and he said that they're expecting ready mix prices going up. Pot ash as a by-product of coal fired power plants is greatly used as a filler material. Since so many coal power plants are going away so will this cheap material. Hope the industry can find an alternative.
Another excuse to raise the price of concrete…. Bottom line it will continue with real reasons and invented ones until the economy falters and demand drops…
Wait until they do steel framing for the non supporting wall inside
@All3 Powered by ICF Guru!, Aaron could you tell me more about the FORTIFIED Program, we will be building in the state of Maine and would love to find out more...Liked#62 N Subbed... P.s. I like those ICF's what an upgrade over others!!!
fortifiedhome.org
@@all3pools Thank you, Sir!!!
@@all3pools My Wife and I are going to be building our Home