I find Kenneth to be a really interesting character. His first encounter deliberately paints him as the classic obnoxious Souls character, annoyingly screaming for help and then sending you off to do some task for him cause why wouldn't you? Most players just kill him or ignore him completely. But he's one of the few characters in the game who actually isn't hiding anything from you or using you as a pawn for a bigger self-centered purpose. He doesn't betray you or any of the people involved in his questline, and from the very beginning he makes his intentions very clear. He doesn't even take Stormveil Castle for himself, instead giving it to Nepheli who he sees as an honourable Lady. His demeanor can be a little suspicious, but he's really a good guy.
Very well said! He does come off cocky and silly when you first meet him but I think he’s very transparent in what he’s trying to do, and like you said realizing that Nepheli is a more suited pick. It makes him very likable because there is no ulterior motive.
Kenneth's attitude kinda makes sense in context. When most people in the lands between are undead/insane, it helps to have a straightforward purpose even if it sounds odd at times. Kenneth's one of the few people trying to rebuild the world after the war between the gods.
To me, it seemed like giving him the larval tear was the most selfless and therefore best choice (especially since I didn't have the option to tell him he was beautiful) because it just seemed like if I'm giving up something that important for him (I only had like 2 larval tears at that point) then the game must reward me for doing so. Guess I should've paid more attention to the lore.
So, I have a theory considering Bocs upbringing: As you say in the video, Boc is very well-mannered, knowledgeable and even wears some really fine clothes. Actually he is wearing the same exact hat as the wandering noble enemies do. He surely got some education and was probably raised in a safe enviroment, considering he could educate himself and learn fine crafts like seweing. So, it might be possible that he was raised at Fort Haight, amongst humans and demi-humans alike, and the dead demi-human mother that lays inside of the Fort, is his mother. He lived there, it got attacked, everyone was killed but he could flee. Now he roams the lands all alone, even desperate enough to try to become friends with the demi-humans that live in the coastal cave, who reject him because he is too different from his primitiv bretheren.
As someone who plays a sorcery build, I definitely understand that frustration. She ran out of FP and didn’t have any blue potions left. Screw it, I’ll do this the old fashioned way!
I really wish there was more info on the Demi-Humans. They’re really interesting with all the different forms they have and I’m always a fan of goblin type creatures in fantasy worlds lol
As for the “Demi-Human mother” I’m pretty sure she’s the one who we see dead at 3:32 inside the fort. I think the backstory is that the people who took the fort from Haight probably chose to be hostile to the Demi-humans and kidnapped and killed the mother.
I think you're right! And it makes sense with the dialogue as well. Here I am looking at the crime scene and I can't see the victim right in front of me 😂
@@kitetales it could be Boc’s mother as well. A Demi human Queen associated with Haight and found in a castle? Haight respects Demi humans so it doesn’t seem like a stretch that he’d allow a Demi human queen to become educated and learn a trade. The Demi humans in the cave might not have attacked Boc because of him acting human (they didn’t break the needle or throw it away after all), but because of the familiarity to their now dead mother. Boc wanted to keep sewing so he was unwilling to give it up and so they took it from him. Just some far fetched theories on it all. Good video as always.
Whenever a demi-human refers to "their mother" I just assumed they were talking about whichever demi-human queen they belong to. Dont think it was mentioned in the video but when you kill a demi-human queen, all other demi-humans in the area surrender and won't fight you. Pretty interesting detail.
the demi human summons might not be the strongest, they don't do the most damage or have much health, but you gotta admit, they go absolutely feral on whatever you summon them against. They give 110% every timr
I had just assumed that the "Mother" the ghost was referring to was the corpse of the demi-human queen in Ft. Haight. The story in my head was that Kenneth had an alliance with the demi-humans and their queen and they shared the fort. Then Godrick the golden sent his goons down, and drove Kenneth and the demi-humans out after killing the queen.
I think this is probably it, a few other people have suggested she's the mother as well; I thought maybe Kenneth had sent them in to try and take over the fort for him and they were killed? I like the idea he was sharing the fort with them better!
I kind of love the fact that the description calls the people that laughed at the demi-human staff fools, im pretty sure that it scales better than the regular glintstone staff in spells?
Yes, the staff does outperform the regular glintstone staff, but I think it its outclassed by the staffs that have the higher int requirements. Lore-wise I believe the "academy fools" part is an insight into the social interactions between scholars/sorcerers. Likely that some scholars simply enjoyed teaching sorcery to anyone willing to listen and others saw it as a way to elevate themselves above others. This isn't the first time that Miyazaki has written about a gap between two scholar factions from the same institution. :P
@@WB3Champ4JD To add to this, the same village you find the fetish of Boc's mother that says 'you're beautiful' also has a demihuman queen who was seemingly being taught by and living in tandem with the sorcerers of the village, as they and the demi human hordes were fighting as one unit and the queen uses exclusively glintstone spells.
I wonder if the Farum Azula beastmen are related to the demi-humans. Whereas the regular demihumans don't look too much like them, the demihuman queens have a similar build. I thought those odd statues in the Bestial Sanctum were Farum Azula beastmen, but they do look quite a lot like the demi-human queens as well.
I’m sure there’s a connection there. Beastmen and Demi humans are almost synonymous titles (both insinuating half human half animal) and their similar appearances are not by chance. Since Farum Azula is outside of time or whatever they might be a past relative or another subspecies that are related to the Demi-humans for whatever reason were taken out of or left the lands between, or left on their own.
Thanks for letting me know that The "You're Beautiful" Pratling Pate is actually useful as an interaction tool with Boc! As to Kenneth Haight's fort @3:36, I feel like the previous occupants, the blood knight and company, kidnapped and killed a demi-human queen. Her corpse is seen lying on the floor when you enter Fort Haight's grounds. When we kill the blood knight and informs Kenneth to retake his fort, he does, and lets the demi-humans enter his fort. However, rather than live in co-existence, the demi-humans murdered all the human occupants and took over the fort. Maybe Kenneth stayed hidden at the top, or they somehow spared him because he was the only human kind to them. I think the demi-humans took over the fort due to Kenneth's words in the fort "Ah, you, is it? I suppose you must have seen by now, yes, the sorry state of my fort? Oh, indeed, it is a foul fate for a land, to be without a ruler." Kenneth's words of "sorry state of my fort" leads me to believe the demi-humans overran his fort, while he thought demi-humans and humans could live together in peace.
There is a way you can have him survive, it’s a prattling pate that says you’re beautiful to him and then it boosts his self confidence and he feels the need not to get a rebirth
I think in regards to the “mother” being “taken”, that the ghost outside of the Fort mentions, means that the corpse inside of the Fort is a dead Demi-human Queen and she was taken (killed) by the soldiers you kill for Kenith
One thing I found about them is that the Alluring Pot works against demi-humans, even if you are in combat with them; they are crafted from albinauric bloodclots, which reminded me of the larval tear you retrieve for Boc so he can bring it to Rennala (which is curious-- is it possibly the Carian faction that gave the demi-humans the Queen's Staff?) Also, Boc, along with a lot of the other major NPCs are allegories for the stories of the royal family (e.g., Roderika -> Marika of Numen, Blaidd -> Maliketh/Radahn, Nepheli Loux -> Hoarah Loux, etc.) In Boc's case, he's an allegory for Miquella. We firstly find him stuck in a tree (the Haligtree/Golden Lineage), we retrieve his sewing needle (Miquella's needle) and we learn that his mother was a seamstress (we know that Miquella's Needle is used in altering the influence of the Outer Gods, much like what Marika did.) We also see that him make a reference to "curling up and dying" in his text, similarily to Miquella. I think the most convincing piece of evidence resides in if you replace Boc's dialogue with you with a dialogue between Miquella and Mohg: "Thank you very much. Mum (Queen Marika) was always the only one who said I was beautiful. And now, my dear lord let me hear her (the Formless Mother's) voice. Please, if I may dream, just once... Do you feel the same way my mum did m'lord? Do you think I'm beautiful, despite these looks?" (If you say yes): "M'lord, my dear lord... I, Boc the seamster (Miquella), am forever in your service. May the throne of Elden Lord be yours (Mohg)." Thus, creating the Mohgwynn dynasty. The larval tear/seeming interest in Albinauric-related stuff also reminded me of how Loretta & the Albinaurics were devout followers of Miquella.
Whoa that is incredible, this is the sort of thing I’d never make a connection with ob my own but I love reading when people do! Thanks so much for sharing that in such a coherent way.
But just to give weight to the theory of the NPCs being allegories, I just wanted to throw in a few more details: >Roderika is a girl who came from across a veil with a loyal army (the Numen assassins), and almost immediately they all are grafted to a horrific scion (Marika being grafted to the Greater Will's power as a vessel), and she feels like a craven (Marika yearns to betray the Greater Will). She then becomes a daughter to the Smithing Master Hewg (Marika's smith, who made the fingerslayer blade for the godskin), who teaches her spirit-calling (...possibly representing some aspect of Marika's abilities?) >Blaidd is a shadow (like Maliketh), he jumps from a tower (like Radahn jumping in like a meteor), and goes into a maddened frenzy having to betray his physical form to remain staunchly loyal to his cause (Radahn is corrupted with Scarlet Rot but is still loyal in scourging the stars on behalf of the Golden Order.) He also attends the Radahn Festival. Blaidd also makes an interesting assessment about Darriwil: "Rotting in a cell is no true justice. No, this is where it ends for you." Blaidd also is a starscourge-- he stands in the way of the Star's Fate (Ranni's Age of Stars). >Nepheli Loux helps us fight the first the dragon-handed lord of Stormveil (like Hoarah Loux), kills an Omenkiller (representing Godfrey's love of his Omen children), and loses her purpose after Gideon Ofnir disowns her for upsetting his plans (Godfrey when he becomes Tarnished.) >Selivus is Rykard-- sorcerer, blasphemous traitor, a man of serpentine demeanor, and a pervert. >Rogier is Godwyn the Golden, who then dies and becomes a champion of Fia the Deathbed Companion (Godwyn becomes the Prince of Those Who Live In Death)
Wow, I would have never looked at it that way but that’s so brilliant. If you’re correct, hats off to GRRM for writing it and hats off to you for noticing!
The demi humans are my favorite enemies so far their asthetic just hits the spot for me I was really hoping they would have more lore on them they're such an interesting mob
Thank you so much for clearing this up what fascinating lore. I was always left conflicted killing them for no reason especially after experiencing Boc 😢and the Queen's disciples surrendering when being defeated. I knew there must be some somber story behind it and not purely evil individuals at heart!
I feel like they're also creatures that imbue the aspects of crucible because they have human, ape, and wolf like features. They don't seem quite as shunned as the omen or misbegotten. My guess is because they're very human like in appearance and speech. So humans treat them better than the others. Like they're taming savages, not unlike missionaries.
@@Garl_Vinland Don't believe so, Demi-human seems to refer specifically to that monkey/human species. The misbegotten resemble a griffin/cockatrice/sphinx, I think the big distinction in discrimination is the horns. The misbegotten, & omen have horns, and the demi-humans don't; so they're treated better. Creatures with horns are symbols of the primordial crucible, which is where the Erdtrees original power came from. The Golden order doesn't want people to know that there is something more powerful than it, so they deem it heretical. This is also why the Crucible Knights are seen with disdain now, their incantations draw power from the same thing. Sorry if I'm rambling, I get really excited about this stuff.
@@Garl_Vinland Yes, but because they're more humanlike in appearance they seem to be treated better, hence the part where Kenneth Haight talks about restarting communications with them, the Sorcerer that is at the hermit village teaching them, and the Demi-human queen's glintstone staff that was a gift from the academy. At every turn they seem to be preferred to their other chimeric counterparts. The omen and misbegotten are enslaved, and subjugated. But the Demi-humans trade, communicate, and study with humans; now, I do believe they keep their interactions at an arms length and they're taken advantage of, but they're not enslaved.
@@WolfJett I wouldn't say the demihumans are treated that well. First of all there are no thriving Demi human towns. There seems to be a tribal ettiquette to their cultures and their queens were gifted cheap knickknacks, but also they were slain if deemed too troublesome. There's definetly a lot of oppression of their kind, it sort of reminds me of how the Native Americans were treated: outed from their homes, exploited in trades, converted by missionaries, but all the while sneered at. The misbegotten feel like extensions of the demihumans, seeing as how they are mostly found in the weeping peninsula, which already has a large demihuman population as well and is quite significant lorewise to the demi humans. The misbegotten were taken in as slaves to work as menials at Castle Morne, and then rebelled. They're also both prone to the red eye disease which seems to happen to exclusively beasts.
Great video! It really is interesting how every "beast" enemy species seems to have a good degree of in universe context and lore attached to it even if it's not really presented very clearly. Making them out to be more than mere combat fodder
Also the two queens in the mountains have M names. I think this is interesting because of the royal bloodline maintaining first letter names. It’s not a stretch to think of Marika and Malikith plus that would answer wether they are beast or not. They are both
Your lore videos are always so cool. You notice these small world building details of the Lands Between and really bring them to life. If I was one of the people that worked on the demi-humans or the dancing maidens, seeing someone notice all the little hints I put in would make my day! Keep up the great work.
Thats some wonderful attention to detail you have! Your layers of empathy in this video are very heart warming. Truly you chipped a piece of ice off my black heart. Keep up the great work 🥲
I just discovered your videos, I love the way you talk about the lore, sharing also your questions and elements that still didn't find an answer. Also your voice is incredibly sweet to listen to
An interesting angle for you to explore: the demihumans and Beastmen are probably all products of the Crucible: the primordial form of the Erdtree in which all life was blended together. Under the Golden Order, the products of the Crucible are generally looked down upon, e.g., the Crucible Knights are considered to be far too close to Chaos. It makes sense that the Golden Order would place them all in second-class positions, viewing them as inferior, but possibly useful. This is doubly interesting because of the theory that the Erdtree is a parasite upon the previous Great Tree, which encompassed both order and chaos. The Greater Will cast out chaos when it changed the Great Tree to the Erdtree. Hence the followers of the Frenzied Flame wanting to burn it all in order to reintroduce chaos.
Thank you for making these videos! You've given so much food for thought, especially for things I haven't even noticed or attempted to figure out. This is why I love Elden Ring! It gan be as deep as you allow it!
One thing I noticed while doing Kenneth’s question on NG+ is the big body at the entrance of Height’s fort is actually the demihuman queen the ghost by the fort mentions, my guess is since they found their queen burnt even with Kenneth’s attempts at communication they weren’t up for peacefulness with other strangers
You have such an engaging way of storytelling. There's nothing better than to get home from a hard day and relax listening to one of your lore narrations :)
You could also bring Bog to Rennala so that he could change his appearance to be human, making him not feeling insecure about himself. However after transforming, he wouldnt be able to speak anything and immediately dies after reloading the game. Perhaps there is a side effect of changing appearance for non-tarnished?
You can figure it out from some item descriptions: Basically rebirth only works if you possess the Great Rune of the Unborn. The girls who surround Rennala in the first phase of her boss fight are similar products of using rebirth without having the Rune. You have it (after fighting Rennala), and Boc doesn't. Basically you're the only one who can use rebirth safely.
I just discovered your channel while exploring windmill village lore. I watched a few minutes of it and this video as well and I love your attention to lore detail, I'll have to come back and watch these videos after I complete these areas so the game doesn't get spoiled for me~
I love Kenneth, he's acting lordly yes but he has such an open mind and a golden hearth reaching to everybody tarnished or beastfolk with the same truhfullness and kindness. His true order his not absolute or perfect for he believe valor is not in birth but in action ... In m'y head cannon After we leave Limgrave he United all force in it, no more slave or discrimination, only coopérations. (Alors i have this scène in my head of Kenneth watching tenderly Boc trying to adjust a fancydress on Nepheli loux and for some reason it's adorable)
One thing I consider quite interesting about Demi-humans and the other "beastly humanoids" we encounter is their possible relation the the Primordial crucible. The Crucible talisman mentions humans used to grow various aspects of animals, which intrigues me because the first things I think of are the different types of animalistic humanoids we encounter. Demi humans, misbegotten, the bat like sirens, etc. I think that they are all related to the Primordial Crucible we learn about. They were once revered, the talisman states, but as civilization advanced, they became something loathed. Maybe this ostracization brought about the various beastly humanoids we encounter today as they formed communities of their own. If that's true and Demi-humans are related to the other similar entities. I think it adds more meaning to the song of the sirens. Which talks about the world being once blessed and their nature as mothers, now cursed. And it mentions the anger of the "Golden One". This makes me feel the influence of the Erdtree caused the schism between mankind and their beastly counterparts they once revered. And makes me ponder the possibility of a civilization before this. Which makes me immediately think of Farum Azula, the demihuman like skeletons we encounter there. Maybe Farum Azula is the last crumbling remains of the Crucible centric age, pieces of it strewn about the lands between as it was quite literally ripped from the world and cast to crumble and be forgotten. This theory would also imply a connection with Demi-humans and other similar creatures to dragons, of which I'd have to investigate for, as Farum Azula is very much a dragon kingdom of sorts.
Excellent video and you did an excellent job in your presentation and it's obvious that you're quite passionate in regards to this game. It is an excellent game world and you do a great job bringing it to life. On a side note, your commentary is adorable.
Oh I love her so much, her snake form was absolutely adorable. I just really hope she doesn’t follow in the footsteps of Tanith. I can definitely add her to the list!
I don't believe Boc is a demi-human. His talk about his mother makes us believe that she is, at the very least, capable of speech (which the demi-humans don't seem to be able to), and when you give him a larval tear he is reborn as a regular guy. The outcome of his rebirth seems to be his goal: he's happy when he's finally normal, finally human-looking. We could argue that being reborn can change your race (as seen with numen being an option), but he seems to be more under a curse than anything else. His plot of "being ugly" feels like he's the odd one out, like being born with a rat face when the standard is, well, human.
I've been headcanoning that Boc was raised by a human mother who passed away. And because he isn't human himself, he didn't have anywhere to go after she passed. So he tried to integrate back with other demi-humans. But it didn't work out. He constantly talks about how he wishes to be like his mother, and I think it's not just to be a semester, but to be human as well.
WOAH. I was going to say the mother of the demi-humans just referred to a Demi-Human Queen, but I didn't know Boc reacted to the prattling pate you can get! Really interesting stuff!
I think the giant corpse in Fort Haight is a Demi-Human Queen which essentially is their "mother". My theory is that when Godrick's soldiers occupied the fort, they killed the Queen, and that enrages the Demi-Humans. Since when we first reach Fort Haight, we see the Demi-Humans attack the fort. Also, if you travel to an area west of Lake Agheel, you can see a battle between Demi-Humans and Godrick's soldiers.
I've been thinking about the Demi-Humans a bit lately after grabbing a Memory Stone from the Queen in Hermit Village and seeing the interaction with some sorcerers. This might not be a tidy, organized comment and may not go anywhere, but here are some thoughts: Overall with Elden Ring and other FromSoftware games it always helps me to think of things in terms of chronology, and I get the sense that Demi-Humans are an older race of beings; even the name suggests that they are halfway to human from whatever was before. And what came before? Beastmen, which it's pretty evident are one of the oldest races of the equivalent Elden Ring stone ages. Farum Azula, where the Beastmen are from, is an ancient place that was apparently once attached to Caelid near the Bestial Sanctum, which has the same architecture as Farum Azula and houses a very prominent Beastman character who also shows up in Farum Azula. Placidusax, of Farum Azula, "was Elden Lord in the age before the Erdtree," so we've established the age of the Beastmen. We also know that intelligence was granted to the Beastmen, however, the Demi-Humans' intelligence by comparison is still a question. Only the Queens can barely use the most basic magic, while the Beastmen can cast some pretty intense stuff in Farum Azula despite their more primal, animalistic nature. In any case, they all ended up being pushed aside as humanity and their superior intelligence took over the land. Maybe the Demi-Humans are a failed evolutionary branch of Beastmen or even a half-breed of humans and Beastmen. If you look closely at their models, they're all somewhat doglike, much like the Beastmen (even the regular-sized ones that I thought looked like monkeys have a canid aspect to them). Whatever they are exactly, they ended up only found in dark corners of the world, like caves and cliffsides, and their numbers are incredibly small. This is similar to another ancient race that preceeded them in the time of the Crucible ("the primordial form of the Erdtree" "where all life was blended together"): the also-semi-human, semi-animal Misbegotten. Also not an intelligent race, and also abused, opressed, and nearly squashed out of existence over the ages, finding a haven only in the attempted alternate Erdtree for the imperfect: Miquella's Haligtree. And all of these races hate humans because of their plight ("wax wroth"). But wait...that was somewhat tangential if not important for placing them in time. So, now back to the Hermit Village that piqued my interest and the Weeping Penninsula Queen's staff. It's glintstone offered as a gift to foster peace, but also notes that it's something the "fools" of the academy sneer at. Well if the academy are fools, then the gift was likely NOT given by the academy. No, It must have been offered by someone who was around at the time of the Demi-Humans' first appearance in the Lands Between, someone with access to glintstone and with the ability to craft a staff, and someone at odds with the academy. Who do we find sitting there in the Hermit Village? PRIMEVAL Sorcerer Azur, once an academy grandmaster, "founding glintstone sorcerer," and now exiled. Lusat, also exiled, is tied very closely with Sellia (where numerous sorcerers are still found weilding Night sorceries of Nokron, with one describing them as assassins who "hunted their fellows"). Both of these exiled grandmasters are tied to sorceries of the "taboo" primeval current, from the ancient, pre-Golden-Order astrologers of the mountaintops and the ancient cities of the present-day underground. We see that the Queen in Hermit Village has a Memory Stone, which is QUITE a rare item in the Lands Between. There are only eight of them in existence, and their description states that they're said to be fragments of the black moon that hung above the Eternal City. This almost certainly came from a primeval sorcerer who saw beyond the glintstone into the stars, and who, just like those deliberately buried cities, was stripped of all stature in the world. Oh, and there are Nox Warriors in Sellia, too. So why were all these races and individuals systematically pushed to the fringes? Well, the Golden Order took over as the dominant force in the world and the Age of the Erdtree was ushered in by numerous wars against other cultures. The ancient cities were of a competing faith, and housed elements of a plot to overthrow the Greater Will and usher in a new Age of Stars led by the Lord of Night. Radagon of the Golden Order was essentially the king of Raya Lucaria when married to Rennala, so perhaps that's when Azur and Lusat were ousted. And maybe seeking harmony with other races that were not part of the Greater Will's plan was just another reason to eliminate them. I feel like there's more to figure out about the demi-humans and EVERYTHING ELSE, but this comment is already kinda extra.
Okay, we need to get you making videos on Elden Ring; this was SO well written and thought out and easy to follow. I have to admit that when I get really in depth and long comments, very rarely are they this organized and chronological. This is way too nice just to be sitting as a comment, you really should try your hand at making some Elden Ring lore videos if that is something that has ever interested you, because this was very interesting and entertaining to read and I love this! Either that or I’ll just have to ask if you can be my writer 😆
@@kitetales 🙂 Thanks. I was only going to mention Azur, but my brain got carried away. Haha. I even left out a bit of more wild conjecture related to that Stranded Soul outside Fort Haight. As for making videos, maybe ...
@@kitetales oh god. Now im gonna have to do another play through looking for these LOL. In case you see it I also think your on to something with the demi human mother. I assumed it was how demi humams will scatter if you kill the queen or the big type like in the cave. But your interpretation is the one I'm going with and I really hope we get more info sometime lol. Oh and... I hadnt found that prattling pate and felt absolutely horrible once I saw what giving him a tear does.
Demi humans are often considered impure creatures, but it seems that they were, like many, once bathed in the grace of the erdtree before the shattering. Just like the noble pots, so many of which have now lost their way, the demi-humans are similarly reduced.
Yo these videos are dope, easily the most digestible way to soak in some cryptic lore. Personally I love how conversational your narration/storytelling is :)
I always assumed that Boc must be half human and half demi-human. The way I see it his mother was a human "aristocrat" (given his current outfit and hat) who was probably kidnapped by a demi-human clan 😳 and eventually being with them she gave birth to Boc and cared for him like any child of hers and passed on her trade and eventually passed away. The fact that Boc sees himself as ugly could be because he looked up to his human mother so much that he thought of his blood as inferior. The demi-human queens we see haven't even demonstrated the capacity for language on Boc's level, further implying that he learned it from a human mother.
It is strange that he seems so... different... from most of the other demi-humans. Like a different breed. Then again, although they are somewhat rare to encounter, the knife-wielding 'assassin' demi-humans seem to be the same type as Boc?
This was a great video! I’ve beat the game and thought I’d finished every side quest but now I realize I never met Boc! I guess that gives me something to do in NG+.
It's pure conjecture, but I thought the mother was human. Boc looks slightly different, and can not only speak unlike the others, but it speaks in a way that makes you think he was around humans with an extensive vocabulary and understanding of social contexts. Who taught him? His mother. Along with the human trait of sewing, and in human fashion. He's dressing like a human, talks like a human, wants a human profession... he must be calling himself ugly because he's comparing his looks to humans. We got a classic "a face only a mother would love" and so his human mother tells him he's beautiful after he becomes aware he looks different from other humans. It also makes more sense that since his mother taught him all these human things, and could talk, that she was a human as opposed to another demi human that lived in a cave like an animal but somehow knew how to be and talk like a human.
I love these videos. I appreciate you sharing what you think and what you've found, rather than just "This is a concrete detailing of what is right". Makes me want to jump into the game and do some investigation myself.
I think bocs mother is the Demi human queen body found in fort haight when you first clear it out, you can also find some Demi humans trying to get in, presumably to find their mother
I think the mother of the demihumans in the Mistwood is the giant corpse of a demihuman queen that you see in the courtyard right when you enter Fort Haight. What must have happened, at least as I speculate it, is that Godrick's forces that took over the fort killed the queen and drove the demihumans out, causing them to completely mistrust humans. This is what leads to Kenneth's despair at being unable to find an understanding with them again once he returns home when we've retaken his fort, the demihumans are still incensed that their queen and mother has been slain and that they've been mistreated! The alliance cannot be reforged again it seems, sadly. Edit: Looks like someone else pretty much argued the exact same thing in a comment below! My bad for being redundant. I'm glad you've done this video on the demihumans though, they're an underappreciated part of the lore and they really are interesting. Also Boc
the dead demi human with the prattling pate could be Boc's mother, From has a bad history of not making the corpses look like the character they're supposed to be of, like Zullie the Witch's corpse in DS3's Ringed City is just the standard male hollow body
The weirdest enemy in the game are those demi looking creatures with the bags over their head that vomit death worms. The giant wormface boss is nightmare fuel
Also! The demi-humans’ mother…her corpse is right in the courtyard of the Fort! That giant corpse is a demi-human queen model. So that is what the ghost is referring to.
Players who first meet Kenneth think they need to save him from the Demi Humans, but they're probably there to protect Kenneth and help shout his message louder. That's why they've gathered below him. When you go to Kenneth's fort, you can se Demi Humans sieging the fort, but struggling to get through the ballista up top. If you rush past them they'll fight the soldiers for you, and they can even beat the Pumpkin head and soldiers themselves! Kenneth really does get along with the Demi Humans.
That's what I thought too!! From the direction they're approaching, they're offensive not defensive, so I thought that they were definitely there on behalf of Kenneth.
one interesting detail near the town you find the prattling pate in, you can actually find some sorcerers teaching a demihuman queen, i think maggie?, spells and they fight alongside her
I think the person who gave the queen her staff might be Kenneth Haight? It seems right up his alley. Especially because it can be used by people with less intelligence (I believe Kenneth has high faith rather than intelligent stats wise although he is smart lore wise.)
@@kitetales yeah it always had me thinking because I can't imagine anyone in the academy would have a reason to befriend the demi humans(except maybe the traveling sages?) Maybe it could have been the queen of the full moon because she'll transform Boc if you mess up his quest line?
There's a demi-humain queen in Mt Gelmir who seems far more proficient in glinstone. Its very close proximity to the sorcerer Azur might hint to him beeing involved in the teaching of the demi-humains.
My theory is that boc's mother was half human making him a quarter human, the only real evidence I have to go off of is that they are the only demi humans we hear speaking proper English
(Edit - i just wrote this and posted it and then saw it had already been said) I suspect the demi humans' mother that was taken is the dead demi human queen on the ground in fort Haight. The ghost outside asks where Kenneth is. My theory: while Kenneth was out on a diplomatic errand with the demi humans, godrik soldiers took over his fort, killing the queen therein, thus making the demi humans "wroth."
I see the staff more as a passive aggressive act. A symbolic act of cherity harboring an ingrained insult, that the staff was designed to be lesser, and for those lacking witt. Hollow gestures and hollow words.
The demi-human mother "taken" the spirit npc speaks of is just the large demihuman corpse you see in Fort Hague. It seems clear Kenneth and a horde of his demihuman allies attempted to retake his fort and failed. Their queen mother dying in the battle. Ive fought atleast two other "mothers" that i remember. It seems they live in a matriarchal societies similar to hyenas. Boc's story on the other hand could possibly be tied to whatever cultural exchange Kenneth was facilitating. Still a mystery to me though...
I find Kenneth to be a really interesting character. His first encounter deliberately paints him as the classic obnoxious Souls character, annoyingly screaming for help and then sending you off to do some task for him cause why wouldn't you? Most players just kill him or ignore him completely.
But he's one of the few characters in the game who actually isn't hiding anything from you or using you as a pawn for a bigger self-centered purpose. He doesn't betray you or any of the people involved in his questline, and from the very beginning he makes his intentions very clear. He doesn't even take Stormveil Castle for himself, instead giving it to Nepheli who he sees as an honourable Lady. His demeanor can be a little suspicious, but he's really a good guy.
Very well said! He does come off cocky and silly when you first meet him but I think he’s very transparent in what he’s trying to do, and like you said realizing that Nepheli is a more suited pick. It makes him very likable because there is no ulterior motive.
Kenneth's attitude kinda makes sense in context. When most people in the lands between are undead/insane, it helps to have a straightforward purpose even if it sounds odd at times. Kenneth's one of the few people trying to rebuild the world after the war between the gods.
Fia also straight up tells you her plan
True I helped him, fully willing to do something evil, but then he seemed okay, and I was not disappointed just surprised.
@Vitor PR troo
Seriously, who on earth would willingly tell Boc he isn't beautiful? Poor guy needs a thousand hugs
He is the sweetest character! The other demi-humans were just jealous...
I DID NOT KNOW BETTER
To me, it seemed like giving him the larval tear was the most selfless and therefore best choice (especially since I didn't have the option to tell him he was beautiful) because it just seemed like if I'm giving up something that important for him (I only had like 2 larval tears at that point) then the game must reward me for doing so.
Guess I should've paid more attention to the lore.
I wish he was my best friend
Boc for Elden Lord 2023
So, I have a theory considering Bocs upbringing:
As you say in the video, Boc is very well-mannered, knowledgeable and even wears some really fine clothes.
Actually he is wearing the same exact hat as the wandering noble enemies do.
He surely got some education and was probably raised in a safe enviroment, considering he could educate himself and learn fine crafts like seweing.
So, it might be possible that he was raised at Fort Haight, amongst humans and demi-humans alike, and the dead demi-human mother that lays inside of the Fort, is his mother.
He lived there, it got attacked, everyone was killed but he could flee.
Now he roams the lands all alone, even desperate enough to try to become friends with the demi-humans that live in the coastal cave, who reject him because he is too different from his primitiv bretheren.
Interesting theory but unfortunately he's constantly talk about his caves.
Me: you’re beautiful
Demi-human enemy: *sceams and becomes more rabid*
Same energy as "you should smile more"
woah the detail of the queen trying to use a spell but then just throwing her staff, beautiful and sad
It really is such a great little detail, it gives her so much more character and yes it's sad too. :(
make you think how much sadder gamers throwing their controllers
@@serlancerlot315 🤣🤣🤣
As someone who plays a sorcery build, I definitely understand that frustration. She ran out of FP and didn’t have any blue potions left. Screw it, I’ll do this the old fashioned way!
The thought of you running around trying to tell Demi-Humans they're beautiful whilst they attack you is absolutely hilarious, and sad.
I felt like a cat-calling creep!
I have the pot that says thank you so I’ve been trying the thank boc anytime he alters my armor.
@@kitetales 😫😫😹💕
I really wish there was more info on the Demi-Humans. They’re really interesting with all the different forms they have and I’m always a fan of goblin type creatures in fantasy worlds lol
I know, there just isn’t a lot on them! I just did a video on the Misbegotten and there is SO much more available.
As for the “Demi-Human mother” I’m pretty sure she’s the one who we see dead at 3:32 inside the fort. I think the backstory is that the people who took the fort from Haight probably chose to be hostile to the Demi-humans and kidnapped and killed the mother.
I think you're right! And it makes sense with the dialogue as well. Here I am looking at the crime scene and I can't see the victim right in front of me 😂
@@kitetales it could be Boc’s mother as well. A Demi human Queen associated with Haight and found in a castle? Haight respects Demi humans so it doesn’t seem like a stretch that he’d allow a Demi human queen to become educated and learn a trade. The Demi humans in the cave might not have attacked Boc because of him acting human (they didn’t break the needle or throw it away after all), but because of the familiarity to their now dead mother. Boc wanted to keep sewing so he was unwilling to give it up and so they took it from him.
Just some far fetched theories on it all. Good video as always.
Whenever a demi-human refers to "their mother" I just assumed they were talking about whichever demi-human queen they belong to. Dont think it was mentioned in the video but when you kill a demi-human queen, all other demi-humans in the area surrender and won't fight you. Pretty interesting detail.
Demi human become non hostile when you kill the leader. Haight killed that one 😂
@@dallasfuns6476 this is the kind of dark twist I live for
the demi human summons might not be the strongest, they don't do the most damage or have much health, but you gotta admit, they go absolutely feral on whatever you summon them against. They give 110% every timr
LOL the Demi human summons are one of my favorites there’s 4 of them and they come out ready to throw down. They’re great.
@@jeremysims91 They give exactly zero fucks and I love it. Also the greatshield bros
@@leftovernoise oh yeah the great shield dudes are awesome too. Underrated. They helped me beat Ordovis and his asshole friend.
I like how you often catch little clues we see in the combat animation, which I think a lot of lore UA-camrs overlook.
I love it when those clues just click into place!! It really shows how much thought was put into everything.
@@kitetalesE
I had just assumed that the "Mother" the ghost was referring to was the corpse of the demi-human queen in Ft. Haight. The story in my head was that Kenneth had an alliance with the demi-humans and their queen and they shared the fort. Then Godrick the golden sent his goons down, and drove Kenneth and the demi-humans out after killing the queen.
I think this is probably it, a few other people have suggested she's the mother as well; I thought maybe Kenneth had sent them in to try and take over the fort for him and they were killed? I like the idea he was sharing the fort with them better!
@@kitetales This would also explain why the sorcerers are trying to create allies in them, as they dislike the Golden Order's kids.
I kind of love the fact that the description calls the people that laughed at the demi-human staff fools, im pretty sure that it scales better than the regular glintstone staff in spells?
Yes! I love that too, some judgement going on about their prejudiced attitude
Yes, the staff does outperform the regular glintstone staff, but I think it its outclassed by the staffs that have the higher int requirements. Lore-wise I believe the "academy fools" part is an insight into the social interactions between scholars/sorcerers. Likely that some scholars simply enjoyed teaching sorcery to anyone willing to listen and others saw it as a way to elevate themselves above others. This isn't the first time that Miyazaki has written about a gap between two scholar factions from the same institution. :P
It's the best staff for under 30 INT
It has the best sorcery scaling in the game.
@@WB3Champ4JD To add to this, the same village you find the fetish of Boc's mother that says 'you're beautiful' also has a demihuman queen who was seemingly being taught by and living in tandem with the sorcerers of the village, as they and the demi human hordes were fighting as one unit and the queen uses exclusively glintstone spells.
I wonder if the Farum Azula beastmen are related to the demi-humans. Whereas the regular demihumans don't look too much like them, the demihuman queens have a similar build. I thought those odd statues in the Bestial Sanctum were Farum Azula beastmen, but they do look quite a lot like the demi-human queens as well.
We also see beasts being more associated with faith instead of sorcery too. Maybe that's why demi human queens get frustrated when casting spells.
I’m sure there’s a connection there. Beastmen and Demi humans are almost synonymous titles (both insinuating half human half animal) and their similar appearances are not by chance.
Since Farum Azula is outside of time or whatever they might be a past relative or another subspecies that are related to the Demi-humans for whatever reason were taken out of or left the lands between, or left on their own.
I always thought the Beastmen were former Dragon worshippers. Yura mentions that eating Dragon hearts turns men to beasts.
@@jackdavenport4303 ooh good point
@@jackdavenport4303 I think they're their own race. Those who partake in Dragon Communion end up becoming dragons themselves, like Theodorix.
When you first go to Kenneth’s fort you can see the Demi humans fighting the Godrick soldiers in front of the fort
Yes! That’s what made me think that they were sent in by Kenneth to reclaim it maybe?
Thanks for letting me know that The "You're Beautiful" Pratling Pate is actually useful as an interaction tool with Boc!
As to Kenneth Haight's fort @3:36, I feel like the previous occupants, the blood knight and company, kidnapped and killed a demi-human queen. Her corpse is seen lying on the floor when you enter Fort Haight's grounds. When we kill the blood knight and informs Kenneth to retake his fort, he does, and lets the demi-humans enter his fort.
However, rather than live in co-existence, the demi-humans murdered all the human occupants and took over the fort. Maybe Kenneth stayed hidden at the top, or they somehow spared him because he was the only human kind to them. I think the demi-humans took over the fort due to Kenneth's words in the fort "Ah, you, is it? I suppose you must have seen by now, yes, the sorry state of my fort? Oh, indeed, it is a foul fate for a land, to be without a ruler."
Kenneth's words of "sorry state of my fort" leads me to believe the demi-humans overran his fort, while he thought demi-humans and humans could live together in peace.
Main reason for NG+: Not letting Boc die. I don´t care about all the maidens. I´ll stay maidenless forever if that is what it needs to save my boy.
There is a way you can have him survive, it’s a prattling pate that says you’re beautiful to him and then it boosts his self confidence and he feels the need not to get a rebirth
@@Daniel-sx6vc I know you mean well, but do you think i have skipped the whole video?
funny, in my ng+ i killed him on sight
@@auto1nfanticid3 You monster! (Did he drop anything?)
@@DerAykac if he did it was useless trash, much like the character himself.
I think in regards to the “mother” being “taken”, that the ghost outside of the Fort mentions, means that the corpse inside of the Fort is a dead Demi-human Queen and she was taken (killed) by the soldiers you kill for Kenith
One thing I found about them is that the Alluring Pot works against demi-humans, even if you are in combat with them; they are crafted from albinauric bloodclots, which reminded me of the larval tear you retrieve for Boc so he can bring it to Rennala (which is curious-- is it possibly the Carian faction that gave the demi-humans the Queen's Staff?)
Also, Boc, along with a lot of the other major NPCs are allegories for the stories of the royal family (e.g., Roderika -> Marika of Numen, Blaidd -> Maliketh/Radahn, Nepheli Loux -> Hoarah Loux, etc.)
In Boc's case, he's an allegory for Miquella. We firstly find him stuck in a tree (the Haligtree/Golden Lineage), we retrieve his sewing needle (Miquella's needle) and we learn that his mother was a seamstress (we know that Miquella's Needle is used in altering the influence of the Outer Gods, much like what Marika did.) We also see that him make a reference to "curling up and dying" in his text, similarily to Miquella. I think the most convincing piece of evidence resides in if you replace Boc's dialogue with you with a dialogue between Miquella and Mohg:
"Thank you very much. Mum (Queen Marika) was always the only one who said I was beautiful.
And now, my dear lord let me hear her (the Formless Mother's) voice. Please, if I may dream, just once...
Do you feel the same way my mum did m'lord? Do you think I'm beautiful, despite these looks?"
(If you say yes): "M'lord, my dear lord...
I, Boc the seamster (Miquella), am forever in your service. May the throne of Elden Lord be yours (Mohg)." Thus, creating the Mohgwynn dynasty.
The larval tear/seeming interest in Albinauric-related stuff also reminded me of how Loretta & the Albinaurics were devout followers of Miquella.
Whoa that is incredible, this is the sort of thing I’d never make a connection with ob my own but I love reading when people do! Thanks so much for sharing that in such a coherent way.
But just to give weight to the theory of the NPCs being allegories, I just wanted to throw in a few more details:
>Roderika is a girl who came from across a veil with a loyal army (the Numen assassins), and almost immediately they all are grafted to a horrific scion (Marika being grafted to the Greater Will's power as a vessel), and she feels like a craven (Marika yearns to betray the Greater Will). She then becomes a daughter to the Smithing Master Hewg (Marika's smith, who made the fingerslayer blade for the godskin), who teaches her spirit-calling (...possibly representing some aspect of Marika's abilities?)
>Blaidd is a shadow (like Maliketh), he jumps from a tower (like Radahn jumping in like a meteor), and goes into a maddened frenzy having to betray his physical form to remain staunchly loyal to his cause (Radahn is corrupted with Scarlet Rot but is still loyal in scourging the stars on behalf of the Golden Order.) He also attends the Radahn Festival. Blaidd also makes an interesting assessment about Darriwil: "Rotting in a cell is no true justice. No, this is where it ends for you." Blaidd also is a starscourge-- he stands in the way of the Star's Fate (Ranni's Age of Stars).
>Nepheli Loux helps us fight the first the dragon-handed lord of Stormveil (like Hoarah Loux), kills an Omenkiller (representing Godfrey's love of his Omen children), and loses her purpose after Gideon Ofnir disowns her for upsetting his plans (Godfrey when he becomes Tarnished.)
>Selivus is Rykard-- sorcerer, blasphemous traitor, a man of serpentine demeanor, and a pervert.
>Rogier is Godwyn the Golden, who then dies and becomes a champion of Fia the Deathbed Companion (Godwyn becomes the Prince of Those Who Live In Death)
Woah
Also isn't Loretta a reference for DS3 to women who was helping undead settlement but was killedy by missionary
Wow, I would have never looked at it that way but that’s so brilliant. If you’re correct, hats off to GRRM for writing it and hats off to you for noticing!
Boc is hands down the best NPC. No other character got me as connected to them as him. Roderika and Hewg are up there too
Yes I love Hewg, he just feels so sweet and genuine. Definitely one of my favorites as well.
Boc should start hanging out with Kenneth - they could probably benefit from each other right?
As always, this was and interesting video that makes me want to go back and really just read everything again and again. Keep it up!
Thanks so much!! :)
The demi humans are my favorite enemies so far their asthetic just hits the spot for me I was really hoping they would have more lore on them they're such an interesting mob
I wish we could ally with them. Always makes me sad when games have an "enemy species" than you can't stop fighting
Boc reminds me of the Oedon Chapel dweller in Bloodborne. Two of my favorite NPCs
Thank you so much for clearing this up what fascinating lore. I was always left conflicted killing them for no reason especially after experiencing Boc 😢and the Queen's disciples surrendering when being defeated. I knew there must be some somber story behind it and not purely evil individuals at heart!
I feel like they're also creatures that imbue the aspects of crucible because they have human, ape, and wolf like features. They don't seem quite as shunned as the omen or misbegotten. My guess is because they're very human like in appearance and speech. So humans treat them better than the others. Like they're taming savages, not unlike missionaries.
Are misbegotten not a type of Demi human?
@@Garl_Vinland Don't believe so, Demi-human seems to refer specifically to that monkey/human species. The misbegotten resemble a griffin/cockatrice/sphinx, I think the big distinction in discrimination is the horns. The misbegotten, & omen have horns, and the demi-humans don't; so they're treated better. Creatures with horns are symbols of the primordial crucible, which is where the Erdtrees original power came from. The Golden order doesn't want people to know that there is something more powerful than it, so they deem it heretical. This is also why the Crucible Knights are seen with disdain now, their incantations draw power from the same thing. Sorry if I'm rambling, I get really excited about this stuff.
@@WolfJett Well if thats the case arent Demihumans just watered down descendants of the crucible? They're at the very least related to beasts.
@@Garl_Vinland Yes, but because they're more humanlike in appearance they seem to be treated better, hence the part where Kenneth Haight talks about restarting communications with them, the Sorcerer that is at the hermit village teaching them, and the Demi-human queen's glintstone staff that was a gift from the academy. At every turn they seem to be preferred to their other chimeric counterparts. The omen and misbegotten are enslaved, and subjugated. But the Demi-humans trade, communicate, and study with humans; now, I do believe they keep their interactions at an arms length and they're taken advantage of, but they're not enslaved.
@@WolfJett I wouldn't say the demihumans are treated that well. First of all there are no thriving Demi human towns. There seems to be a tribal ettiquette to their cultures and their queens were gifted cheap knickknacks, but also they were slain if deemed too troublesome. There's definetly a lot of oppression of their kind, it sort of reminds me of how the Native Americans were treated: outed from their homes, exploited in trades, converted by missionaries, but all the while sneered at. The misbegotten feel like extensions of the demihumans, seeing as how they are mostly found in the weeping peninsula, which already has a large demihuman population as well and is quite significant lorewise to the demi humans. The misbegotten were taken in as slaves to work as menials at Castle Morne, and then rebelled. They're also both prone to the red eye disease which seems to happen to exclusively beasts.
You do a really great job of humanizing the demi-humans and normal humans in this world. Great work, soothing voice. Keep it up!
Reject Greater Will, return to Demi-human
Demi-human strong together 🦧✊
Thank you so much for expanding the lore of this amazing game, I always look forward to your lore videos.
Thank you so much!! 😊
These are the best Eldin Ring lore videos I've seen.
Aww thank you! 😊
Great video! It really is interesting how every "beast" enemy species seems to have a good degree of in universe context and lore attached to it even if it's not really presented very clearly. Making them out to be more than mere combat fodder
Also the two queens in the mountains have M names. I think this is interesting because of the royal bloodline maintaining first letter names. It’s not a stretch to think of Marika and Malikith plus that would answer wether they are beast or not. They are both
Great analysis as always! Always love chilling with some Elden Ring lore discussion!
Thanks so much!!
Your story telling is as good as vaatys, and ich think a bigger praise is hard to achieve.
Keep it up!
Thank you so much! Vaati is awesome and I love him, so I take that as a huge compliment indeed!
The simp is strong with this one
Your lore videos are always so cool. You notice these small world building details of the Lands Between and really bring them to life. If I was one of the people that worked on the demi-humans or the dancing maidens, seeing someone notice all the little hints I put in would make my day! Keep up the great work.
Love these videos! Thank you! You’re very good at connecting dots on things I’d never notice in this game.
Thats some wonderful attention to detail you have! Your layers of empathy in this video are very heart warming. Truly you chipped a piece of ice off my black heart. Keep up the great work 🥲
Awww I’m glad to hear it! 😊❤️
I'd love to see Boc become a strong character wielding a great sword.
These vids have fast become my fave soulsborne content.
Thank you so much, that is a huge honor! 🥰
The details in the fight against the demi human queen are so cool. Ty for making me notice.
Absolutely love your videos! Demi-humans are super interesting to me now!
Thank you for watching! 😊
I just discovered your videos, I love the way you talk about the lore, sharing also your questions and elements that still didn't find an answer. Also your voice is incredibly sweet to listen to
Thank you so much! 🥰
An interesting angle for you to explore: the demihumans and Beastmen are probably all products of the Crucible: the primordial form of the Erdtree in which all life was blended together.
Under the Golden Order, the products of the Crucible are generally looked down upon, e.g., the Crucible Knights are considered to be far too close to Chaos. It makes sense that the Golden Order would place them all in second-class positions, viewing them as inferior, but possibly useful.
This is doubly interesting because of the theory that the Erdtree is a parasite upon the previous Great Tree, which encompassed both order and chaos. The Greater Will cast out chaos when it changed the Great Tree to the Erdtree. Hence the followers of the Frenzied Flame wanting to burn it all in order to reintroduce chaos.
makes sense, however methinks the Frenzied Flame is not chaos, but a different Form of Order
I’m loving this series. Keep up the great work! Would love a black knife assassin lore.
Thank you so much! Yes that'd be a great topic for sure, would be really fun to look into that.
Thank you for making these videos! You've given so much food for thought, especially for things I haven't even noticed or attempted to figure out. This is why I love Elden Ring! It gan be as deep as you allow it!
Boc is the best boi and must be protected and cherished!
The fact that there's subtext in the lesser boss battles shows how much care was truly placed into the story of this game
One thing I noticed while doing Kenneth’s question on NG+ is the big body at the entrance of Height’s fort is actually the demihuman queen the ghost by the fort mentions, my guess is since they found their queen burnt even with Kenneth’s attempts at communication they weren’t up for peacefulness with other strangers
You have such an engaging way of storytelling. There's nothing better than to get home from a hard day and relax listening to one of your lore narrations :)
You could also bring Bog to Rennala so that he could change his appearance to be human, making him not feeling insecure about himself. However after transforming, he wouldnt be able to speak anything and immediately dies after reloading the game. Perhaps there is a side effect of changing appearance for non-tarnished?
You can figure it out from some item descriptions: Basically rebirth only works if you possess the Great Rune of the Unborn. The girls who surround Rennala in the first phase of her boss fight are similar products of using rebirth without having the Rune.
You have it (after fighting Rennala), and Boc doesn't. Basically you're the only one who can use rebirth safely.
I just love Buc, one of the worst problems that I have with Elden Ring is that I can't be his bodyguard or give him the title of Elden Lord
I just discovered your channel while exploring windmill village lore. I watched a few minutes of it and this video as well and I love your attention to lore detail, I'll have to come back and watch these videos after I complete these areas so the game doesn't get spoiled for me~
Thank you so much! Yes definitely don’t get anything spoiled for yourself; it’s hard to avoid everything that’s out there!
Ok I found your channel through Elden Ring videos but your classic hollywood videos were such a pleasant surprise! Instant fan :) so underrated
Oh my gosh I’m so glad!! It’s so rare finding other people that like classic movies! 🥰
I love Kenneth, he's acting lordly yes but he has such an open mind and a golden hearth reaching to everybody tarnished or beastfolk with the same truhfullness and kindness.
His true order his not absolute or perfect for he believe valor is not in birth but in action ...
In m'y head cannon After we leave Limgrave he United all force in it, no more slave or discrimination, only coopérations.
(Alors i have this scène in my head of Kenneth watching tenderly Boc trying to adjust a fancydress on Nepheli loux and for some reason it's adorable)
Awwwww I love that image!! So cute, I'd love a happier version for the Lands Between where we get to see scenes like that.
One thing I consider quite interesting about Demi-humans and the other "beastly humanoids" we encounter is their possible relation the the Primordial crucible. The Crucible talisman mentions humans used to grow various aspects of animals, which intrigues me because the first things I think of are the different types of animalistic humanoids we encounter. Demi humans, misbegotten, the bat like sirens, etc.
I think that they are all related to the Primordial Crucible we learn about. They were once revered, the talisman states, but as civilization advanced, they became something loathed. Maybe this ostracization brought about the various beastly humanoids we encounter today as they formed communities of their own.
If that's true and Demi-humans are related to the other similar entities. I think it adds more meaning to the song of the sirens. Which talks about the world being once blessed and their nature as mothers, now cursed. And it mentions the anger of the "Golden One".
This makes me feel the influence of the Erdtree caused the schism between mankind and their beastly counterparts they once revered. And makes me ponder the possibility of a civilization before this.
Which makes me immediately think of Farum Azula, the demihuman like skeletons we encounter there. Maybe Farum Azula is the last crumbling remains of the Crucible centric age, pieces of it strewn about the lands between as it was quite literally ripped from the world and cast to crumble and be forgotten.
This theory would also imply a connection with Demi-humans and other similar creatures to dragons, of which I'd have to investigate for, as Farum Azula is very much a dragon kingdom of sorts.
Excellent video and you did an excellent job in your presentation and it's obvious that you're quite passionate in regards to this game. It is an excellent game world and you do a great job bringing it to life. On a side note, your commentary is adorable.
Thank you so much so watching and for your comment! 😊
Could you do a video on Rya? She’s such a darling despite having a depressing story.
Oh I love her so much, her snake form was absolutely adorable. I just really hope she doesn’t follow in the footsteps of Tanith. I can definitely add her to the list!
I don't believe Boc is a demi-human. His talk about his mother makes us believe that she is, at the very least, capable of speech (which the demi-humans don't seem to be able to), and when you give him a larval tear he is reborn as a regular guy. The outcome of his rebirth seems to be his goal: he's happy when he's finally normal, finally human-looking.
We could argue that being reborn can change your race (as seen with numen being an option), but he seems to be more under a curse than anything else. His plot of "being ugly" feels like he's the odd one out, like being born with a rat face when the standard is, well, human.
thank you for great content!
Yeah
Yes I actually did a review of Notorious! Such a great movie and one of my favorites.
I've been headcanoning that Boc was raised by a human mother who passed away. And because he isn't human himself, he didn't have anywhere to go after she passed. So he tried to integrate back with other demi-humans. But it didn't work out. He constantly talks about how he wishes to be like his mother, and I think it's not just to be a semester, but to be human as well.
WOAH. I was going to say the mother of the demi-humans just referred to a Demi-Human Queen, but I didn't know Boc reacted to the prattling pate you can get! Really interesting stuff!
I think the giant corpse in Fort Haight is a Demi-Human Queen which essentially is their "mother". My theory is that when Godrick's soldiers occupied the fort, they killed the Queen, and that enrages the Demi-Humans. Since when we first reach Fort Haight, we see the Demi-Humans attack the fort. Also, if you travel to an area west of Lake Agheel, you can see a battle between Demi-Humans and Godrick's soldiers.
I've been thinking about the Demi-Humans a bit lately after grabbing a Memory Stone from the Queen in Hermit Village and seeing the interaction with some sorcerers. This might not be a tidy, organized comment and may not go anywhere, but here are some thoughts:
Overall with Elden Ring and other FromSoftware games it always helps me to think of things in terms of chronology, and I get the sense that Demi-Humans are an older race of beings; even the name suggests that they are halfway to human from whatever was before. And what came before? Beastmen, which it's pretty evident are one of the oldest races of the equivalent Elden Ring stone ages. Farum Azula, where the Beastmen are from, is an ancient place that was apparently once attached to Caelid near the Bestial Sanctum, which has the same architecture as Farum Azula and houses a very prominent Beastman character who also shows up in Farum Azula. Placidusax, of Farum Azula, "was Elden Lord in the age before the Erdtree," so we've established the age of the Beastmen. We also know that intelligence was granted to the Beastmen, however, the Demi-Humans' intelligence by comparison is still a question. Only the Queens can barely use the most basic magic, while the Beastmen can cast some pretty intense stuff in Farum Azula despite their more primal, animalistic nature. In any case, they all ended up being pushed aside as humanity and their superior intelligence took over the land. Maybe the Demi-Humans are a failed evolutionary branch of Beastmen or even a half-breed of humans and Beastmen. If you look closely at their models, they're all somewhat doglike, much like the Beastmen (even the regular-sized ones that I thought looked like monkeys have a canid aspect to them). Whatever they are exactly, they ended up only found in dark corners of the world, like caves and cliffsides, and their numbers are incredibly small. This is similar to another ancient race that preceeded them in the time of the Crucible ("the primordial form of the Erdtree" "where all life was blended together"): the also-semi-human, semi-animal Misbegotten. Also not an intelligent race, and also abused, opressed, and nearly squashed out of existence over the ages, finding a haven only in the attempted alternate Erdtree for the imperfect: Miquella's Haligtree. And all of these races hate humans because of their plight ("wax wroth").
But wait...that was somewhat tangential if not important for placing them in time. So, now back to the Hermit Village that piqued my interest and the Weeping Penninsula Queen's staff. It's glintstone offered as a gift to foster peace, but also notes that it's something the "fools" of the academy sneer at. Well if the academy are fools, then the gift was likely NOT given by the academy. No, It must have been offered by someone who was around at the time of the Demi-Humans' first appearance in the Lands Between, someone with access to glintstone and with the ability to craft a staff, and someone at odds with the academy. Who do we find sitting there in the Hermit Village? PRIMEVAL Sorcerer Azur, once an academy grandmaster, "founding glintstone sorcerer," and now exiled. Lusat, also exiled, is tied very closely with Sellia (where numerous sorcerers are still found weilding Night sorceries of Nokron, with one describing them as assassins who "hunted their fellows"). Both of these exiled grandmasters are tied to sorceries of the "taboo" primeval current, from the ancient, pre-Golden-Order astrologers of the mountaintops and the ancient cities of the present-day underground. We see that the Queen in Hermit Village has a Memory Stone, which is QUITE a rare item in the Lands Between. There are only eight of them in existence, and their description states that they're said to be fragments of the black moon that hung above the Eternal City. This almost certainly came from a primeval sorcerer who saw beyond the glintstone into the stars, and who, just like those deliberately buried cities, was stripped of all stature in the world. Oh, and there are Nox Warriors in Sellia, too.
So why were all these races and individuals systematically pushed to the fringes? Well, the Golden Order took over as the dominant force in the world and the Age of the Erdtree was ushered in by numerous wars against other cultures. The ancient cities were of a competing faith, and housed elements of a plot to overthrow the Greater Will and usher in a new Age of Stars led by the Lord of Night. Radagon of the Golden Order was essentially the king of Raya Lucaria when married to Rennala, so perhaps that's when Azur and Lusat were ousted. And maybe seeking harmony with other races that were not part of the Greater Will's plan was just another reason to eliminate them.
I feel like there's more to figure out about the demi-humans and EVERYTHING ELSE, but this comment is already kinda extra.
Okay, we need to get you making videos on Elden Ring; this was SO well written and thought out and easy to follow. I have to admit that when I get really in depth and long comments, very rarely are they this organized and chronological. This is way too nice just to be sitting as a comment, you really should try your hand at making some Elden Ring lore videos if that is something that has ever interested you, because this was very interesting and entertaining to read and I love this! Either that or I’ll just have to ask if you can be my writer 😆
@@kitetales 🙂 Thanks. I was only going to mention Azur, but my brain got carried away. Haha. I even left out a bit of more wild conjecture related to that Stranded Soul outside Fort Haight. As for making videos, maybe ...
That was a really interesting insight about the queen throwing the staff. I noticed alot of the stuff you talked about but never put that together.
It was such a great little animation! It makes me wonder what things like that I’ve just missed because I didn’t know what I was looking at
@@kitetales oh god. Now im gonna have to do another play through looking for these LOL.
In case you see it I also think your on to something with the demi human mother. I assumed it was how demi humams will scatter if you kill the queen or the big type like in the cave. But your interpretation is the one I'm going with and I really hope we get more info sometime lol.
Oh and... I hadnt found that prattling pate and felt absolutely horrible once I saw what giving him a tear does.
Demi humans are often considered impure creatures, but it seems that they were, like many, once bathed in the grace of the erdtree before the shattering. Just like the noble pots, so many of which have now lost their way, the demi-humans are similarly reduced.
Damn, and I always just saw them as goblin stand-ins.
Yo these videos are dope, easily the most digestible way to soak in some cryptic lore. Personally I love how conversational your narration/storytelling is :)
It makes sense that demihumans don't like boc.
He's human in all but appearance
I always assumed that Boc must be half human and half demi-human. The way I see it his mother was a human "aristocrat" (given his current outfit and hat) who was probably kidnapped by a demi-human clan 😳 and eventually being with them she gave birth to Boc and cared for him like any child of hers and passed on her trade and eventually passed away. The fact that Boc sees himself as ugly could be because he looked up to his human mother so much that he thought of his blood as inferior. The demi-human queens we see haven't even demonstrated the capacity for language on Boc's level, further implying that he learned it from a human mother.
It is strange that he seems so... different... from most of the other demi-humans. Like a different breed. Then again, although they are somewhat rare to encounter, the knife-wielding 'assassin' demi-humans seem to be the same type as Boc?
This was a great video! I’ve beat the game and thought I’d finished every side quest but now I realize I never met Boc! I guess that gives me something to do in NG+.
we need more lore like this I found surroundings, creatures and overall world way more interesting than main story of the game
Really awesome observations and attention to detail WOW
It's pure conjecture, but I thought the mother was human. Boc looks slightly different, and can not only speak unlike the others, but it speaks in a way that makes you think he was around humans with an extensive vocabulary and understanding of social contexts. Who taught him? His mother. Along with the human trait of sewing, and in human fashion. He's dressing like a human, talks like a human, wants a human profession... he must be calling himself ugly because he's comparing his looks to humans. We got a classic "a face only a mother would love" and so his human mother tells him he's beautiful after he becomes aware he looks different from other humans. It also makes more sense that since his mother taught him all these human things, and could talk, that she was a human as opposed to another demi human that lived in a cave like an animal but somehow knew how to be and talk like a human.
Burger king employees teaching demi humans how to make the hamburger sorcery
“And we call it a ‘Big Mac’”
I'm so used to deep voiced dudes doing all the souls/elden ring content your voice surprices me every time lol
Your content is great tho
Thank you! Just giving some variation! 😆
Her voice makes it too wholesome
Aww thank you 😁
Thank you for this video ❤️❤️❤️
Thank you for watching! 😊
I love these videos. I appreciate you sharing what you think and what you've found, rather than just "This is a concrete detailing of what is right". Makes me want to jump into the game and do some investigation myself.
I used to think that if I left Kenneth alone in his castle, when I came back I would find him murdered by the demi-humans
I think bocs mother is the Demi human queen body found in fort haight when you first clear it out, you can also find some Demi humans trying to get in, presumably to find their mother
I think the mother of the demihumans in the Mistwood is the giant corpse of a demihuman queen that you see in the courtyard right when you enter Fort Haight. What must have happened, at least as I speculate it, is that Godrick's forces that took over the fort killed the queen and drove the demihumans out, causing them to completely mistrust humans. This is what leads to Kenneth's despair at being unable to find an understanding with them again once he returns home when we've retaken his fort, the demihumans are still incensed that their queen and mother has been slain and that they've been mistreated! The alliance cannot be reforged again it seems, sadly.
Edit: Looks like someone else pretty much argued the exact same thing in a comment below! My bad for being redundant. I'm glad you've done this video on the demihumans though, they're an underappreciated part of the lore and they really are interesting. Also Boc
I think, and this is only a theory, that Box's mom is the dead demihuman queen at Fort Height and his dad is Kenneth
Super random but your voice is so soothing. I can feel myself slipping away into a nap lol
the dead demi human with the prattling pate could be Boc's mother, From has a bad history of not making the corpses look like the character they're supposed to be of, like Zullie the Witch's corpse in DS3's Ringed City is just the standard male hollow body
The weirdest enemy in the game are those demi looking creatures with the bags over their head that vomit death worms. The giant wormface boss is nightmare fuel
Also! The demi-humans’ mother…her corpse is right in the courtyard of the Fort! That giant corpse is a demi-human queen model. So that is what the ghost is referring to.
Oh my every detail makes me love this game even more thanks for your videos
Players who first meet Kenneth think they need to save him from the Demi Humans, but they're probably there to protect Kenneth and help shout his message louder. That's why they've gathered below him.
When you go to Kenneth's fort, you can se Demi Humans sieging the fort, but struggling to get through the ballista up top. If you rush past them they'll fight the soldiers for you, and they can even beat the Pumpkin head and soldiers themselves! Kenneth really does get along with the Demi Humans.
That's what I thought too!! From the direction they're approaching, they're offensive not defensive, so I thought that they were definitely there on behalf of Kenneth.
These are my favorite enemies. They make the most "sense" to me.
Again, I won't stop to say that I love you voice, it help to sleep, soooooo ASMR
Awww thank you! 😊
one interesting detail near the town you find the prattling pate in, you can actually find some sorcerers teaching a demihuman queen, i think maggie?, spells and they fight alongside her
Oh I missed them teaching her! I only ever approached her from Azur's site of grace and assumed they were just there guarding him
I think the person who gave the queen her staff might be Kenneth Haight? It seems right up his alley. Especially because it can be used by people with less intelligence (I believe Kenneth has high faith rather than intelligent stats wise although he is smart lore wise.)
I'm not sure; the staff says Academy so I would think the Academy was giving them as gifts? But certainly possible Kenneth was a mediator in that!
@@kitetales yeah it always had me thinking because I can't imagine anyone in the academy would have a reason to befriend the demi humans(except maybe the traveling sages?) Maybe it could have been the queen of the full moon because she'll transform Boc if you mess up his quest line?
I have been loving your videos. Thank you!
Thank you so much for watching! :)
There's a demi-humain queen in Mt Gelmir who seems far more proficient in glinstone. Its very close proximity to the sorcerer Azur might hint to him beeing involved in the teaching of the demi-humains.
That’s right! Adds more evidence for the Raya Lucaria and Demi-human connection!
Ngl, this is ASMR and Lore all in one
Love your Elden ring lore videos, very thorough
My theory is that boc's mother was half human making him a quarter human, the only real evidence I have to go off of is that they are the only demi humans we hear speaking proper English
(Edit - i just wrote this and posted it and then saw it had already been said) I suspect the demi humans' mother that was taken is the dead demi human queen on the ground in fort Haight. The ghost outside asks where Kenneth is. My theory: while Kenneth was out on a diplomatic errand with the demi humans, godrik soldiers took over his fort, killing the queen therein, thus making the demi humans "wroth."
I didn't know that you could use the "you're beautiful" item on him. Now I feel bad for giving him the larval and getting him killed. D:
Awww I know that was impossible to know. I ruined another NPC storyline by giving her something that killed her. ☹️
I see the staff more as a passive aggressive act. A symbolic act of cherity harboring an ingrained insult, that the staff was designed to be lesser, and for those lacking witt. Hollow gestures and hollow words.
The demi-human mother "taken" the spirit npc speaks of is just the large demihuman corpse you see in Fort Hague.
It seems clear Kenneth and a horde of his demihuman allies attempted to retake his fort and failed. Their queen mother dying in the battle.
Ive fought atleast two other "mothers" that i remember. It seems they live in a matriarchal societies similar to hyenas.
Boc's story on the other hand could possibly be tied to whatever cultural exchange Kenneth was facilitating. Still a mystery to me though...
I always assumed that mother mentioned by Kenneth's fort was that dead queen in the entrance of the fort