I cannot even wrap my head around another's salvation or the sin they are in, I have enough fear and trembling about my own. I'm beginning to wonder how anybody makes it. I know the theology of it, but it's working out is such a mystery to me. I will admit at this point of my own life I have more than a little fear. God help me, God help all those believing.
I too often wonder how anybody makes it. I read in the Bible about how we must understand the Word of God properly and accurately, not perfectly mind you, and how this is part of what it means to be saved. I see so much division in interpretations and such in modern day evangelicalism that I really do wonder on how or if people are saved. I have often wondered if my dad was saved, seeing as he passed away a few years ago. What make this even more frustrating for me in my wondering is that because I hold to reformed theology, I have had people say that I do not believe in the same God as them, and that I needed to leave their church, which was a Calvary Chapel. I hear you and sympathize with your sentiment. God help us indeed.
I've just listened to this for the first time. John MacArthur really hit the nail on the head when he said that Ravi never quoted or read scripture. He always spoke in philosophical terms. I tried listening to Ravi several times over the last few years and could never listen for long and wondered why his style of teaching/preaching was so applauded. When John made that comment, it finally clicked. It is the Word that has power; not any man or woman's philosophical rants or teaching.
John Mac, like 99% of preachers, is a bible warping, modern Pharisee who doesn't support ALL 10 COMMANDMENTS. John will even admit this since it is archived in his GRACE sermons. Modern Christianity has been contaminated to the point that it is a superficial, superstitious LAW trashing, GOD rejecting blood cult with fictional soteriology and anti-nomianism...loaded with ambiguous, abstract, obscure religious lingo and cliches. Inept preachers have come to the point of presenting mostly irrelevant sermons.
I too tried listening and enjoyed a few points of his teaching but it seemed to lack power and conviction he quoted other men more than Jesus. I was left wanting more.
Your point is not the point of the topic. God can use anybody to reach the heart of His child. The question being discussed in the video is whether Zacharias was saved not whether the people God spoke to through him are saved.
No doubt satan will attack you more, but the more we seek and study his word and the closer we get to God, in knowledge and in spirit, the more we are able to overcome satan and this world
@@samuelrosenbalm thank you for taking the time to ask me this. The answer is not yet. This small coastal Aussie town just isn’t helping much. I’ve had four actual pastors *( one youth) totally ghost me and my wife. Kinda a kick in the gut tbh. Hmmm….. I think God hates me.
@@cmdesign01 if an in-person church doesn't seem to be available at the moment, there's lots of online resources. A lot of churches stream or record and post their sermons, that could be something to google. (I'm not really referring to those progressive megachurches though).
" My brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth and someone brings him back, let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins."- James 5:19
Very relevant... If you're not par of a church ..who do you have around you to bring you back from sin... On a deeper lever this also speaks of the kind of closeness we should have with our brethren..
I just want to say this, the Bible is filled with imperfect people and God still used them to glorify and exalt His name. Keep fighting the good fight everyone and may God bless us all!
@Sam A I don’t in any way want to argue but I just want to say that Jesus came to set the captives free and give us power to overcome. While there were definitely wonderful people of God in the Old Testament, we can’t compare ourselves to them or allow ourselves to sin because they did, Christ had not yet come to give power to overcome. The Gospel is the power of God to set us free from the power of the devil.
@@YYZUnderbelly, We (or king David) can know the Lord and commit adultery…but it’s whether we STAY in that sin that counts. We need to REPENT (be genuinely sorry & stop. Completely.) before we will be saved. There’s no such thing as once saved always saved. There are sins in the Bible that are clearly laid out for all to see that if we do them (without repentance) we won’t mKe it i to the kingdom. Period.
No , God through the Holy Spirit drew you to the truth and you believed in Jesus . The word does not go void no matter who brings it forth.Faith comes by hearing the word of God and the Holy Spirit of God is the one that leads you to all truth. The promise is that once you are saved and become a real Christian you are given power to over come the world.We are in the world but no longer of the world. Not controlled by our old fallen nature.
I’m 54 years old. I have learned thankfully in my life that I am a sinner. More importantly, I’ve learned that Jesus came to save sinners like me. I struggle every day, but I try to not sin. I also never dare to say or even think about another persons salvation because only God has that right. I have to worry about my own salvation in fear.
You are absolutely right! We all sin daily. Every man who lusts after a woman has commits adultery in his heart. Matthew 5:27-28. That covers most if not all men.. The woman that the Pharisees brought to Jesus was caught in the very act of adultery and Jesus said ....” He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.”. John 8:7b. We all sin and that is why we need Jesus. We do not have the right to judge another. Read Romans chapters 1-2. We are not worthy to judge another’s heart. You would have to be God to do that. Jesus is the measuring stick so we all fall short. Only by believing in Him can we get into heaven. It is Jesus alone who makes us worthy. Nothing that we do can make us worthy. As believers we are covered by the shed blood of Christ. The tax collector in the temple who prayed “God be merciful to me a sinner” Luke 18:9-14, was justified according to what Jesus said, even though he was a “sinner” According to James, chapter 2 verse 13, mercy triumphs over judgement.
You haven't been reading the scriptures then...Paul says to ppl living ungodly..test yourself..to see if you're in the faith.. Jesus said you will know false teacher by their fruit.. And so on..it's not biblical to turn a blind eye to everyone else and just focus on yourself...you can win someone back from sin....you who are spiritual can restore someone.
@The Righteousness of God In Christ Jesus the reality is not all Christians hold the view that the sacrifice of Christ was efficacious... Many believe Christ essentially just made a way from them to be saved..but now it's on them to work to be saved.
Very well put Dennis. Especially questioning another's status with God. We can not and must not judge. We can however, make corrections by way of prayer and discernment
That statement about the local church being an important support structure to any growing and maturing christian is loaded with wisdom. We need a church community even if we are travelling ministers, and if possible, cut out a bit on our travels.
The real local church is what we see in the book of Acts where they went town to town preaching the Gospel, healing the sick, casted out demons in the name of Jesus. They went out in pairs of two and did this as disciples of Jesus Christ. The word disciple appears in bible about 73 times while Christian appears maybe 3 times. Read Acts to understand what the true church was because they pulled resources together and went to preach the Gospel, helping one another and others in need. Today we give to a church but people stay inside the four walls. Its not just in Word but in power so apply what Jesus taught his disciples and thats when you will see God move. If we only do our own will and not His will and lay down our lives for Him and living in iniquity will He not say depart from Me for i do not know you. We pray for our finances, a house, a promotion, etc but we should pray to do His will such as for changing of hearts and minds, healing broken marriages, healing from depression, anxiety, etc. Lets be the church, not just go to church. Our identity and authority comes from Jesus so seek the source. We rely too much on pastors but depending on the season Jesus will equip you to do His will if you allow Him. He can use you to be an apostle, evangelist, prophet, pastor or teacher. He's called us to make disciples but all we do is bring people to church. Is a pastor around you 24 hours a day? Jesus is always 24 a day so obey what He tells us and you will see God move, even in the local church
At the end of the day, it’s between Ravi and the Lord... Only God knows what’s in Ravi’s heart when he was near the end of his life. No one knows... His sin just reminds us that all of us are tempted whether a preacher, an apologetic or a christian member of a church... We still can commit sin... The good news is “If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.1 John 1:9”.
Lilia... please watch Mike Winger's video on Ravi. He was still known to be receiving illicit pictures from a woman he wasn't married to up until at least February 2020- three months before he passed away. He continually received illicit messages throughout the ordeal with Lori Anne Thompson, all while defending himself as a pious man. I'm not saying it's impossible he could've repented in the last 3 months of his life; I AM saying he had a long-term pattern of unrepentant, evil actions.
@@mitchdavis7245 there is nothing good in man but Christ; the only good that could've possibly been inside Ravi was Christ. God knows the contents of Ravi's heart. Whether or not Ravi was repentant is ultimately between him and God. In Romans 7:15-20, Paul is lamenting his inability to follow the law of Moses, by which he knows he is sinning. He acknowledges that there is no good, or even the capacity for good, in him and is confessing publicly his sin for the benefit of the Church. Ravi never did this; in fact, he sinned even more to cover up his sins. He defamed the woman he abused and ruined her and her husband's lives for years to come. This is not how godly men, letalone church leaders, are supposed to act. He never allowed himself to come under church discipline and/or legal justice for his actions. He has ultimately answered to God for this because he fought to save his reputation in the eyes of man. Matthew 16:24-28, ESV "²⁴Then Jesus told his disciples, 'If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. ²⁵For whoever would save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. ²⁶For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul? Or what shall a man give in return for his soul? ²⁷For the Son of Man is going to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay each person according to what he has done. ²⁸Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.'" Again, only God knows the condition of Ravi's heart; he knows if Ravi's confession & repentance was legitimate. That said, we know Ravi was not a good man, not only through his actions but through the words of Paul assuring us that we will never be good on account of our own heart and deeds. What Ravi did while in the flesh was pure evil. Our only hope is in Christ, and that Ravi knew that.
Ravi disgraced the Lord Jesus publicly and caused His enemies to gain reason to question this Grace we all have in Christ ! I am extremely disappointed, not just in Ravi, but in all those supporters of Ravi willing to ignore, question the integrity of these victims of Ravi, and claim that now it is unfair since Ravi is not here to defend himself. That is total hogwash and l will go so far as to question where you stand in Christ if you are willing to not see the truth as it is. This behavior went on for years, and when these women did come forward he did what all abusers do, he blamed them, questioned them, turned on them. Now that we know that they were telling the truth for years and he lied for years, we still have supporters of Ravi continuing to behave like enablers. I ask, what would cause you Ravi supporters to pause and step back and say "whoa, what is this?" What did you guys do when these allegations first came to light ? I know what a lot of you did, you took your cue from Ravi and doubled down on criticizing his accusers, saying vile and degrading things about each of them. This entire episode does not reflect well on the Church of Jesus Christ. Zero humility, zero repentence, zero accountability... Total secular behavior Hollywood style. It came away the same as if a Hollywood star or a politician was the central figure. I am as l say, disappointed in Ravi and l cannot tell you where he is right now, except to say that if it was me who did all that he did, which he did, STOP DENYING IT, It is beyond that !! Had l done what he did and in my hospital bed knowing he was gonna face the Lord soon, it would be the ONLY decision to come out 100% clean and publicly humiliate himself and plead mercy and forgiveness of Christ, who is full of mercy. I would confess to ALL I WAS GUILTY OF and to publicly declare these women as truth tellers. I would do this because it is what a true believer would if accused in this way and knowing l was guilty of such. Ravi did not do this, he did not confess. Perhaps he thought he would not be forgiven. Perhaps he didn't truly believe in God ultimately because he did not seem to fear God in the end. He came across as a wise man, most times. The Bible says the beginning of wisdom is the fear of the Lord. Ravi did not fear the Lord. This sorry saga is behind us all and his sorry legacy is where it should be...He is disregarded !! No one cares about Ravi Zacharias, except for his most staunchest enablers, and so no one cares about them as well. The more you defend him, the deeper you drive him into obscurity and mire. Think of how much sweeter his legacy would have been if he was not a secret sinner living a separate sexually debauched life without Christ !
My heart broke when I heard this story. It is almost unfathomable. This man who was the epitome of Christianity and seemed so deeply committed and cared so much for humanity doing these acts. But then I have seen it so much in pastors around me and other Christians. But I must continually examine my own life to ask God to work in my life and hold me accountable. I know I must be careful because it makes me very depressed to see how far we have sunk as a society and what we deem as acceptable.
@@thelegend21804 I hear you. But I must say that Jesus dealt with this on earth. His disciples deserted him and Judas betrayed him and then he was crucified for being the savior. So really I guess we can’t be that surprised at Ravi.
John Mac, like 99% of preachers, is a bible warping, modern Pharisee who doesn't support ALL 10 COMMANDMENTS. John will even admit this since it is archived in his GRACE sermons. Modern Christianity has been contaminated to the point that it is a superficial, superstitious LAW trashing, GOD rejecting blood cult with fictional soteriology and anti-nomianism...loaded with ambiguous, abstract, obscure religious lingo and cliches. Inept preachers have come to the point of presenting mostly irrelevant sermons.
Praise God that my behavior has ZERO to do with my justification before God. If it did, we would all be in trouble. My faith is built on nothing less than Jesus' blood and righteousness. I dare not trust the sweetest frame (i.e. my behavior), but WHOLLY LEAN on Jesus' name.
we know when we listen. Either we recognize him as a true brother, or we don't. But that's tied to our own level of discernment, and that is how the Spirit works in us according to the gifts God gave us by birth.
@@kevinlee1323 See, how easily one can be deceived when it comes to Scripture? Satan correctly quoted Scripture when he tempted Jesus the second time. It was correct quotation. Compare Matthew 4:6 and Psalm 91:11-12. But Jesus knew it was a trap and knew that it was to tempt God. So Satan did not twist the Scripture, but the motive was manipulated. So, any preacher can quote Scripture correctly and still be misleading the flock. I think we just have to be aware of motive and also cherry picking verses or picking translations to fit narrative (Rick Warren does this a lot.) This is actually tragic because we trust our preachers to tell the truth truthfully. Test everything! God bless you! 🙏❤🙏
Yep, they set their own selves up as the standard of how far you can go in sin, or how righteous you must live in order to show evidence of salvation. It's a slippery slope.
@@brettpowell3659 it sure is.. and Yeshua is who we aim for and study the scripture to show one approved , Christianity doesn’t do that they aim for the pastor and what he says
Who is the guy that starts speaking around 2:00? He said “there’s nothing in scripture that says you have to go and preach sermons all across the country..” I question his own depth of biblical knowledge, since he didn’t even hesitate with that statement, and any pastor or ‘Christian leader’ that is competent would surely be aware of the great commission given by Christ before he ascended into heaven after his resurrection... “And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. He who has believed [in Me] and has been baptized will be saved [from the penalty of God’s wrath and judgment]; but he who has not believed will be condemned. These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak in new tongues; they will pick up serpents, and if they drink anything deadly, it will not hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will get well.” So then, when the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, He was taken up into heaven and sat down at the right hand of God. And they went out and preached everywhere, while the Lord was working with them and confirming the word by the signs that followed. ]” Mark 16:15-20 AMP www.bible.com/1588/mrk.16.15-20.amp I thought it was peculiar that MacArthur didn’t call him out on that, especially since it’s something all of the men on that stage would have been familiar with......
Everyone needs to ponder on this verse. Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 2 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.
Probably the most sobering and scary things Christ said to those who are deceived. I question my faith all the time especially when I mess up in sin. I trust I’m saved in Christ but it still doesn’t make me stop and see if I’m truly in the faith sometimes. I repented and decided to follow Christ. Sometimes I think satan is trying to place in doubt. It’s a constant battle.
@@SeamusDelion Yes in the context of this passage Jesus was talking about sheep in wolves clothing. False prophets. And trees that bear bad fruit. So yes ponder in this context.
@@coreynoemif3j29 this verse isn't for "Everyone" to ponder is what I am saying. It's for like you said, wolves false teachers etc. Not your average Bible reading church going Christian who doesn't teach.
I feel the whole topic of whether someone is or isn’t a Christian is beyond all of our understanding. I think we should do exactly what C.S. Lewis discusses in “Mere Christianity” and just say someone is a bad Christian. We cannot look into someone’s heart the way Christ can.
@@nathandurant2825 by fruit what do you mean? Fruit of the spirit? Love, joy, peace, long suffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness and temperance? If you mean that, then yes… these are fruits displayed by Christian’s… if you are talking about works or sin… then that’s a dangerous thing if you then try to state that someone isn’t saved from that judgement… instead of attempting to correct them.
For some reason i feel very uneasy when hearing people especially pastors questioning someone 's Salvation. It seems like their heart is not broken for that person but they turning into pharisees who were always perfect😓
Lets stop, he hid a sinful life from everyone. He decided to lie about everything he ever achieved scolastically. Yes he was an amazing teacher, apologist but nonetheless the evidence show he was unrepentant. So yes its ok to ask: "was he saved"? I hope he was, only God knows. But we need to have accountability, all of us. At all time.
If we are saved by grace thru faith. We are not lost by having sin in our life. All have sinned. Only Jesus knows if anyone is in heaven or hell. All of us should have a goal of righteousness.
Sir or mam, please be very careful with your line of thinking. Without sanctification, no one will see THE LORD!!! IT IS AN IMPOSSIBILITY FOR SOMEONE WHO DIED WITH WILLFUL SINS IN THEIR LIFE WITHOUT REPENTING TO ENTER THE KINGDOM OF GOD. The blood of Christ DOES NOT COVER sins you have made peace with. You must fight all of your sins in order to live in sanctification as God intended, not making peace with them. If Ravi Zacharias died without truly repenting, He IS IN HELL. Bank on it!!!
the Bible also says you'll know a tree from its fruit lol. the dude had victims upon victims. I'm not saying he's in hell, I'm also not saying he's not in hell
1 Corinthians 6:9-11 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God. Based on this I would say JMac is right
“The traveling life can be an isolated life and the in community life has a greater potential to be challenged, to be exorted, to be confronted, and to be encouraged to be more like Christ”
@@jeremiahpugula878 Read John 7:24 "Judge not according to the appearance but judge righteous judgement." We judge all the time but righteously. The scripture has numerous verses on how we are to judge. Pointing out someone sinning is not judging. If a rapist sexually assaults a child we certainly can judge that & should. The Bible is clear about judging. It's important we judge on a regular basis in order to properly serve & honor God. God's Word has more than a few verses on this. We shouldn't be spending our day analyzing & judging people but when we do, don't be hypocritical. If a friend & brother Christian is cheating on his wife, do we ignore that or judge that act is sinful & talk to him about it. If I ignored it, I wouldn't be much of a friend & brother. Judge? Yes but not hypocritically. Proverbs 27:7 Malachi 3:18 "Then shall ye return and discern the righteous from the wicked; between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not."
Try actually "studying" God's word and not just reading it. Your lack of critical thinking skills is scary but unfortunately that seems to be the norm now in America.
This conversation amongst supposedly Christian leaders has somewhat missed an important point of church... the first century church was in homes, amongst relatives and friends.... there weren't pastors, paid church workers... the church was essentially a community, not an organization. The term "local church" isn't found in the bible. It was just church and it really meant the larger Christian body, NOT AN ORGANIZATION that happens to have a building down the street from your home. Saying this, I am not against church... I belong to one and I love being there. I just don't want the conversation on Heb 10:24-25 to be strictly about being a member of an organization that has 4 walls. If you don't believe me, go check the gospel and tell me, which church or synagogue was Jesus a member of? How about Paul? How about the other apostles? They were itinerant... and some of them wrote part of the bible we are reading today. I also can't help but to feel that this video has 4 self-righteous men taking a shot at judging a man, when that right belongs to God alone. No one decides who is in hell... and it's counter productive having a debate on that. May we be less of a pharisee and more like Jesus when he stooped down near the woman caught in adultery....
my leader always point me to never gossip. injust feel like these people, righteous one. are gossiping. i don't know. I always follow what I understand about the scripture. I am not for a debate or something.but clearly, they are pointing fingers to the RZIM as a whole. i don't know. I feel like gossiping now.
Brother, I am afraid you have missed the issue as far as the meaning of church. In Greek, A church is an assembly of called out believers. Paul wrote letters to Christians in certain geographical location who assembled in churches . That is why these are called local churches. Now, read Ephesians 5 - Christ loved the Church and gave Himself for her. So what is this Church. We must not confused Church with denominations. Read Paul's letter to Titus and Timothy.
@@kokkintang9983 thanks, I think what you wrote supports my comments. The way the leaders in the video mentioned about church gave the impression that one must be in a local church as defined in modern times. My point is that we shouldn't be dogmatic about being a member of a church defined as an org.the point made in this video was about Ravi, that he wasn't attending church regularly.... The more important point was whether he had a community of believers to which he was accountable.
I wish John could have discerned how for off Steve Lawson had gone off the rails in the last 5 years. The discussion about a traveling preacher made some sense and not being accountable to a local body made some sense, but Larson taught the Word and was "accountable" to a church through its elders?
Steve did an excellent job deceiving & lying to many people & only God knows the heart. As John said, well-known pastors have to lie to many in order to conceal their sin.
MacAuthor's statement about Ravi never quoting scripture is incorrect. I heard him quote it many times and he read from the Bible on many occasions. It's almost as if he doesn't want Ravi to have been truly saved and needs to prove it.
Quoting scripture doesn’t make one saved ! Satan quoted scripture and his destiny is the lake of 🔥!! So Christ said u shall know them by their fruit ! Sad that so many self professed Christians have fallen to a false counterfeit Christianity ✝️!!!! An when one does this makes that person a false convert !! Following another Christ !! It’s warning in the scriptures Christ himself warned his apostles warned and what I find amazing is how so many professed Christians an popular pastors don’t warn of this 🤔 that path to Yeshua is a narrow path and only FEW find it
“When you have finished committing sin, sin is not finished with you. The first cost is high, but it is only the down payment. You keep paying in your conscience, in your body, in the suffering you produce for your family, your friends, and your community. - Ruth Copeland
Actually Mat 28:18-20 explicitly tells us to preach the gospel to all nations. But we must do it while in community with accountability, like Paul who submitted to the other apostles in Jerusalem.
This is the kind of speculation that happens when the basis for one's justification is perfect law-keeping. One's salvation is not based on how well one kept the law, it is based upon being a born again child of God, and NO ONE, not even the magnificent Johnny Mac, can make that judgement. That is an issue between each individual and God.
The bible instructs us to judge ourselves - the church. So we don't have the right to condemn or approve another's destiny we do have the right to confront sin in another confessed believer and bring it under the judgement of God's word.
@@Mike-pj1kv That was exactly what never happened. No one ever confronted Ravi while he lived! Why wait till he die? The timing is odd and so is the Christian community's attitude to cancel him altogether. Ravi has met the Ultimate Judge. That settles the score.
The Bible says you know the tree by the fruit it bears. And Pastor MacArthur is only speaking the Bible and saying what the Bible says. The Bible c says to try the spirit by the spirit. It says my people give me lipservice but their hearts are far from me. A preacher who is teaching God's word but living in habitual sin is a great example of that lip service with an unchanged heart. God's word is the truth and that's like it or not. It's not up for debate. God created us, therefore, He instructs us concerning His eternal truth.
Several times in the Bible it says there believers are qualified to make righteous judgment because of the holy spirit and in fact it says there we will judge the world and the Angels one day. If someone is caught doing a terrible sin especially a multiple of sins and he defends that sin instead of confess it....I dont think that person will repent at the last minute either
I have to repent because I am a Christian but I have been living a double life of watching porn and going to spas to look at women 😔😑 I feel terrible thinking about it and feel very convicted. Every time I did these things I know deep in my heart it is wrong but my flesh took over. Jesus forgive me.
The key is to hate the sin that you practice. If you sincerely want to be free of this sin, and I know what you are going through, God will free you. Thankfully it happened for me, so it can for you. May God bless your honesty and humility.
So tell me what is the difference in a Christian and a worldly person. There should be some power given to us to over come sin. I think that is why Jesus sent His Holy Spirit to indwell in true believers.
@The Righteousness of God In Christ Jesus We may not always walk in that power, but it never leaves us and we are able to turn from any strong hold that we want to turn from, because of the power of God that that controls our minds. I have the mind of Christ and I feel this power to over come the lust of the flesh. That is a promise that God promised me when I accepted Jesus Christ as my savior. His power in me would make me able not to sin if I didn't want to. We sin occasionally but not habitually because God won't allow us to do that. He said He over came the world and I could too by his power that he gave me when I believed and received his Holy Spirit. It is real and powerful . What say you !
Please... Just listen to one of Ravi's sermons and you'll see how much he used to quote scripture. Talking about sins and lies...! Pride is the worst of them all.
@Joy Haddad ♡I listened to Ravi FOR YEARS ...I agree, he did quote scripture...and saying that because he was traveling a lot and did not live in community/church with other believers, because other believers support you & make you strong...is like saying Billy Graham who traveled the world was "wrong" as well... or looking at Paul the Apostle or any of them...is also "wrong" the way they lived their lives, First Corinthians (especially Chap 5), shows us that an entire church can get wrapped up in & even coddle & condone another's sin... "The Revelation" (book) shows us Jesus pointing out the sins in each "congregation", even Philadelphia, "because they left their first love"... and Jesus/Father God allowed John to be isolated & banished to the island of Patmos where he received some of the greatest revelations of his life. Moses, 40 years on the backside of the desert before being used...Joseph a slave... I could go on... THE LEADERS of the CHURCH MUST STOP CONDEMNING each other...and JUDGING... because we ALL will stand before the judgement seat of Christ one day...and give accounts for EVERY "idle word"... Each of us will "stand" or fall before OUR MASTER... These kinds of post, PUSH those who do NOT KNOW JESUS away from Him...NO ONE...I say NO ONE.. but Jesus knows what was in the heart of Mr. Zacharias... These are perfect opportunities to give "altar calls"... explaining the power of sin in one's life... GOD called David a man after His own heart, David committed adultery & murdered & "covered up" these sins for over a year (had many wives & concubines - which totally violated 'for this reason a man shall leave...cleave to his wife...and the two shall become one flesh); but ... Jesus Christ Himself came out of his lineage... what lesson I get from that & other Biblical accounts of life is this...WE HAVE AN EXTREMELY MERCIFUL GOD...maybe The Lord allowed Ravi to catch cancer so he would "come home"...and the sin would cease...and be revealed... and people WOULD LOOK TO THE LORD...and NOT TO LEADERS OF A CHURCH...realizing we all fit into the category of...there is NO ONE RIGHTEOUS...NO NOT ONE...and all of OUR "RIGHTEOUSNESS" is as filthy rags... There seems to be waves of PRIDE on that stage...and the enemy has twisted God's word coming from these "seasoned" men of God (as satan tried to even do with Jesus)...& sadly...they are to blind to see it...I will continue to pray for John MacArthur has I have for many years...but it's sad to see things such as this...its by GRACE we are saved, by FAITH...NOT by our own WORKS, even the yes we spoke... accepting Jesus, IS A GIFT...Blood was the high cost...we need not shame the Lord with our displays of pointing fingers...but show His grace by telling others...ANY ONE CAN FALL...no matter who they are... who knows how many times Ravi may have repented...or even if he did...that's between he & the Lord... but the shame at the judgement seat & the loss of reward hearing "well done"... that would be the pain...imagine GODS PAIN watching Ravi sin...(but we must remember the Prodigal); he was NEVER NOT A SON...even in his pigpen life style...Ravi got caught in the pigpen...hurting many & breaking The LORDS HEART...Let's love OUR FATHER Church, Jesus said, we would show our love to Him, by obeying Him, let's invest our lives in prayer & studying to show ourselves 'approved"...working out our OWN salvation with fear & trembling! My heart goes out to all who read this...to those who do not know Jesus...He tells us to LOOK TO HIM & saved ...not to any man... for ALL....ALL....ALL...have sinned & come short of the glory of GOD...even those in this video!!
Ravi should NOT have been in Christian leadership. He might have repented on his deathbed, but he also gave Christianity's opponents plenty of fuel to last a lifetime. Ravi did not fight the good fight or run the good race. He was a fraud who made every Christian look like a hypocrite. He should have never been in a position of leadership.
@@TJ-kk5zf Come on dude, just admit that there is a serious serious serious hero worship problem in Evangelical Christianity. Admit that Evangelical Christians worship their leaders like Gods and don't hold them accountable. Admit that people who are brave and point out flaws in their leaderships are viciously attacked. Admit that Evangelical Christianity has become a multi-billion dollar industry which is no different from Corporations or Governments. There is no difference. Admit that Christian leaders live lavish lifestyles similar to rock stars and corporate CEO's
When Ravi was all the rage and playing on every Christian radio, I would listen and be impressed with his eloquent speech and great memory of some philosophical ''father'' but in the end I came away empty. He literally had nothing to say. I was perplexed by that. Strange how this world's system will hide the truth from you so that it can perpetuate its grand illusions, like Ravi being an unwavering follower of Christ.
I always felt the same way. It was listening to a great intellect and someone who could repeat everything they’ve read, but no witness of the Spirit. I also thought how Paul said that he came to the Corinthians….not with wisdom of words but in the power of the Spirit. And with Ravi it was ONLY wisdom of words.
@@ben-si3dk Yes! Exactly! I have now learned how important it is for the Spirit to be a witness. If there is no quickening, it should be a sure sign that something isn't from God. But how insidious that Ravi was revered the world over. You couldn't get away from him, even within Christian organizations...Thank God for the Spirit or I would never be able to tell that which is truly from God.
@@Chef_Alpo TY for that, it is very applicable in his case. Reasoning is good, but no spiritual nourishment is bad. I never felt fed after his speeches.
@Guess Work The bible is clear. It minces no words. We are to be holy as God is holy. And while we cannot achieve the level of holiness of God here on earth, we have Christ as our representative before God pleading our case daily. Sanctification is a life time work by God on our minds, but those improvements are important in the life of a Christian, it is the increasing fruit that proves our salvation. Did you hear scripture come from Ravi's mouth regularly? I didn't, He made lots of philosophical quotes. He alluded to God, Christ, & the bible, but a preacher of the word he was not. I am going to say that many theologians, pastors and priests today were false converts. Not all. But many. If the word of God alone is not taught and adhered to , it should be abandoned. We are not to make gods for ourselves. Putting the word or ideas of a man over the word of God is doing just that. We are in the last days. The wolves in sheep's clothing are abounding.
I am glad this showed up at this time, because is this group going to say exactly the same thing about Lawson? Especially MacArthur, who just lied about Zachariah not quoting scripture when I know for a fact that he did quote Jesus and Paul many times
It is noteworthy to watch how many Christian pastor "celebrities" like the men on this stage have felt compelled to comment on Ravi Zacharias another Christian "celebrity". Notice how neither man on this video have any sense of brokenness for their brother. Yet, they feel the need to share how they are doing celebrity pastor "better" than Ravi did... when it truth it is obvious by watching these men that pastor + celebrity doesn't work in Jesus' kingdom.
@@joshuakelley1677 It is noteworthy to watch how there are an ever increasing number of "Christian leader/pastor celebrities" (like the men in this video) who feel compelled to publicly comment on the failure of Ravi Zacharias another Christian "celebrity". Notice how these two men demonstrate the need to painstakingly convince us with example after example that they are somehow doing "Christian celebrity leader" better than Ravi did? Why is it that all these men “on stage” won’t finally admit publicly (something most of us now realize anyway) that celebrity and being a Christian leader do not mix and is the root of the problem being discussed? Then... each of these "celebrities" could walk off of “the stage” leaving their own personally perpetuated and carefully groomed celebrity behind and follow Jesus. PS A surface reading of the Gospels makes it clear how "Christian leader celebrity" is wholly incompatible with Jesus' kingdom.
@@joshuakelley1677 the points of the video are quite clear nor are they lost on me. The point I am making concerns the underlying reality of this video and how celebrity and Christian leadership are wholly incompatible in Jesus' kingdom.
I definitely don't want to be self-righteous. What I'm about to say; I apply to myself first. (Personally, I struggle with anger. Jesus & Paul both clearly teach that I could lose my salvation, if I continue in anger without repenting. Yet I'm still struggling with it. Sin has to be dealt with. That doesn't mean sinless perfection.) This was addressed fairly & a question that should be raised. We should all learn from his sinful example. It also shows we are all sinners. It doesn't matter how talented & respected we are. We have to always deal with our sin, especially patterns of sin. God forgives, but we have to be vulnerable & deal with our sin. God cares about our hearts. ❤️
I am not a supporter of Ravi neither do I like his ministry or work in the least but I say this, he who has no sin or not sinned should first throw a stone. What position or authority do you have to decide if he is in hell or not?
Only a hair dresser will Know if you have Clairol hair colour In your hair . Only Jesus knows who loves him God understands more than we do. Scripture is very clear if you think you are standing strong be careful you don’t fall . That fur John MacArthur.
@@Spawn08th I think he understands the huge huge damage to those holding the person up too high (I have heard him say and warn it to his congregation before). Soo many leaders have fallen to sin and many sexual scandals. Faith shouldn’t be in the person but in God. If satan is going to attack for maximum carnage he hits those held up the highest. It is not the perfection but the direction. Leaders and teachers will be judged more harshly as well. I also believe God can use those who are eloquent and knowledgeable but not true believers to spread an accurate gospel. Just read Philippians 1-
But it is true that Ravi made philosophical statements more often rather than quote Scripture directly. Furthermore, just quoting Scripture does not mean a person is saved for there has to be evidence in a person of having been born again. Ravi also lied about his credentials so there is a pattern of sinful behaviour .... and I am not talking about perfection, but direction of spiritual travel. Is Ravi saved? Well, I am not God and I don't know if Ravi made a deathbed confession and repented of his sin before God ... that is possible, but not likely. And don't take my word for it, watch: ua-cam.com/video/FCeY0IKuitU/v-deo.html
It seems that everyone has a bone to pick on notable preachers. This will never end. What is clear is that we are all sinners, and that includes pastors. Take what is good and leave the bad.
The greater issue here are Christian celebrities, detached from the authority of the local Church -God‘s kingdom is not about celebrity and pride. It’s quite the opposite.-unfortunately the true heroes of our faith are unseen -❤
I love Pastor Macarthur and Ravi. I was heartbroken to hear about Ravi. But now listening to pastor McArthur talk about him like this. How many times were you on the same stage as him and this never came up? He quoted scripture all the time.
@@TheRaginkage why is it so preposterous? Have you ever lied, Have you completely stopped lying since presumed Salvation? Yes, and No. So don't be so offended. Christ was accused of all things evil that He did not even postulate doing nor do. But you were born in Sin, to Sinners, from long line of them, and have done nothing but failed the requirements of Heaven, always being impure.
@@andrewtanczyk4009 That is right, and as a born again Christian and being guided by the Holy Spirit, God would never let me stay in a sin. Immediately I would feel convicted and the word of God would come to my thoughts. Yes repentance is there for real Christians but it has to be real and we must turn away from that sin,can't continue to walk in the flesh. there is fake repentance, Judas gave back the money and then hanged himself. judgement day is coming.
When ravi got cancer in his last dying moments seems there was no repentance!!! He died 2 months later after having cancer but no mentioned of him having a repentant heart!!! Which is so sad!!! Scripture mentions that in book of Thess that God sends a strong illusion to those who believe a lie as truth and that’s a dangerous and scary thing to fall into and very well seems this is what happen to ravi he believed it unto death
Gods grace is greater than our sin. Where Sin abounds grace abounds more. I’ve been a believer for 25 yrs and i still struggle. I’m a sinner… Ravi was a sinner … this is why we need a savior. He had good and bad fruit just like these men in the stage. Is their sin less offensive to God? No, it’s not. You need a savior just as Ravi did. If he knew Jesus as his savior then he is in Heaven.
Luke 18:9-14 He also told this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and treated others with contempt: “Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee, standing by himself, prayed thus: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I get.’ But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, a sinner!’
The whole point is that, based on the evidence, Ravi was not repentant at all. According to one woman's testimony, he had sex with her and then had her pray with him to God, thanking for the opportunity to do that. Would you say that someone like this had an ounce of conviction in their soul? Now, I'm not saying that this woman should just be believed, since many women make up lies about sexual abuse especially with famous people, no matter how unpopular it is to say that. But if this woman's testimony is in fact true, then no part of me personally can say that Ravi was saved.
@@cmk5724 even the thief on the cross repented. We don't know what God did with his heart right before he passed. We do know how deceitful sin and the heart are. My biggest take away from this is not to hypothesize whether or not someone who already passed is in hell but to draw near to God's Spirit in fear and soberness knowing how perverse my own heart is.
I agree with almost everything said in this video EXCEPT for 2 things: 1. We don’t know after stricken with cancer, during the last couple of month’s whether RZ made it right with God or not. How do we know what happened between God and Ravi? Who are we to judge? 2. Pastor JM mentioning that RZ never quoted scriptures. I have heard RZ live twice and both times he referred to scriptures. Moreover, RZ was an apologist not a pastor or preacher. So naturally his talks were different to pastors and preachers.
Both are excellent points...and I immediately disagreed with Pastor JM’s comment also. I’ve watched many RZ sermons and lectures and he often quoted Scripture. I pray God’s grace and forgiveness intervened in RZ last hours! 🙏🏻😢
Thanks@@ryanjamesc9996 - I understood what defending the faith is and what apologetics is only because of RZ. Even today my palm is warm with the hand shake he gave me. I am hurt and sad with all the stories and actions of RZ. However, condemnation is the job of the Holy. And only God is Holy. Also, I know God is using RZ’s actions to point me to my own sins - which I never learnt by reading the stories of David, Solomon and others from the Bible. I just look up and smile at Jesus for all that He is doing to protect me from falling further by giving us modern day examples. I cannot thank the Lord enough.
As a christian I have been given every right to judge this matter - every right. Do any of the Apostles, our leaders in the bible, show this kind of sin? NO! I have every right to judge buddy
If Ravi was quickened by God's Spirit, he certainly is a member of the family of God. Conflating the new birth and salvation is the root of confusion. An individual is completely passive in regards to adoption, the willingness to follow Christ after hearing the gospel varies by degree in each believers life. That's why "few be that find it", the rest will destroy their lives in this present evil age at their own hand. That also varies by degree.
It is not for man to judge what is in the heart and the mind as a man dies. We shall know when we are called from the earth to be with our Saviour. That is sufficient for me! 🇨🇦🙏🏻🙏🏾🙏🏻❤️✝️☝🏻
The Gospel says “you will know them by their works” and it also says “the sheep hear the voice of the shepherd but not that of a stranger” You can indeed know when someone is not saved. God calls us to use judgement and discernment.
@@mikeb.9743 Ironically, John Macarthur is in the same exact boat as Ravi. It is a well known fact that John Macarthur is a millionaire who has multiple homes and a vast array of material possessions. Jesus was clear that it's easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Jesus tells His true disciples..."So then, none of you can be My disciple who does not give up all his own possessions." Therefore, according to scripture, Macarthur is not a disciple of Jesus.
I'm hearing some leaders sharing things about Ravi that bothered them about Ravi's preaching - both John M here and John Piper - did they ever speak to Ravi personally about their concerns? If John was bothered all this time about Ravi's lack of Bible reference, then did he ever challenge him about it? If not, then why not?
Because they are a part of the highest class of Christian social strata. They are elites and they must get along because they occupy those positions. Frankly, because they’re elites and they are busy and they probably don’t really know each other that well. The truth is probably no one knows them that well sadly.
John Mcarthur did have a conversation with Ravi about using the scripture alone and nothing else. All the stories(Lenin Academy, Meeting Hamas leader) Ravi has shared is probably far from the truth.
Yes true. If they has issues,they should've raised it when he was there. It's easy to say I've thought this and that when everything is over and he's not here anymore even, then what's the use. Heaven is full of surprises. Good to be exposed here on earth rather than being a polished disciple who just points out mistakes of others and show themselves right in the doctrine and holy before the eyes of people and are so proud to always talk about others sins and do debates on controversial mysteries of the Bible. If we look at ourselves, I'm surely we will leave Ravi alone
Mathew 5:28-But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 1 Peter 5:8-Be alert and of sober mind. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour. Galatians 5:16-But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. ***It's good for a preacher of Gospel to go with his wife where ever he goes. He shouldn't go alone.
Satan isn't attacking anyone. He was bound at the cross by Christ when Jesus "bruised his head" as foretold in the garden, and described in Rev 20. You are using the idea that Satan is more powerful than you and the spirit in you, and that is why you live a life of compromise and sin. You blame all your failures on the devil.
Jesus is the saviour of all mankind. He is supreme. Satan will never be able to stand in his presence. He will flee away when the spirit of God is in us. How do we know if a person is filled with spirit of God or evil spirit? - 'It's only by looking at the fruit or deeds of the person, we get to know the spirit in him/her.' Study the character Judas Iscariot. He was with Jesus but the desire of his heart allowed the evil to enter him. Genesis 4:7If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must rule over it." Matthew 26:41, where Jesus tells his disciples: “Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.” Mathew 12: 43- 45 43:“When an impure spirit comes out of a person, it goes through arid places seeking rest and does not find it. 44: Then it says, ‘I will return to the house I left.’ When it arrives, it finds the house unoccupied, swept clean and put in order. 45: Then it goes and takes with it seven other spirits more wicked than itself, and they go in and live there. And the final condition of that person is worse than the first.That is how it will be with this wicked generation.”
Amen , it’s not wise to go alone I’m a single man not married and I don’t even allow a woman by her self to come into my home I must protect my witness of God and also flee from fornication no compromising situations
You are weaponizing forgiveness. Ravi was a pathological liar and a sexual predator who left so many victims in his wake and you Daryl want us to just move on.... Wake up dude. We need to discuss this.. Wake up dude.
@@chriscravens8318 Scripture is not being misused here my friend . It is a direct and correct quotation and given in context , especially in this case . I suggest you read your New Testament . You ought to be praying for Ravi's soul and for God's mercy on him . What Ravi did was shocking and evil and it left many many people heartbroken . Unless you yourself are perfect please refrain from the condemnation of any of God's children who have fallen and gotten themselves utterly lost . Apart from that , God bless you and have a good day .
@@misterjones78 What's to discuss Mister Jones ? How what Ravi did could never happen to a real Christian ? or should we discuss where Ravi is going .. Heaven or hell ? If anyone can answer those questions with complete conviction and certainty, do let me know who they are !
This is where Protestant doctrines break down. You preach saved by grace and faith alone until it’s not not convenient. From all I have heard out of the Protestant reformation, works (good or bad) have nothing to do with Salvation. Please correct me if I have misunderstood a main tenant of the Protestant faith.
I believe it is impossible for a true Christian not to repent and open up in his / her deathbed. If someone maintains innocence to the very end that is not Christian character
Exactly. And a true man of God who was in on-going, continual sin would exhibit profound spiritual pain. He wouldn’t be able to hide it. Zacharias showed no such thing.
I am so disappointed to hear that Ravi is guilty of such things. The Bible tells us all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, but it also says "should we keep sinning that grace may abound? Certainly not!" We can only hope Ravi repented of his sins before he passed.
It sounds like from most people that have taken in consideration of Ravi's life style, that all sin is ok. Everyone seems to think all sin is ok and forgiven. Never heard a word about judgement or hell, or the power given to BORN AGAIN CHRISTIAN THAT DOES HAVE POWER TO TURN FROM THEIR SINFUL NATURES. What good is the power of the Holy Spirit if it isn't real enough or strong enough to over come the Devils power to control us. Sad all the people that think Ravi was just a poor sinner that couldn't help himself and we should over look his weakness. SAD.
Pray that God has mercy on Ravi’s soul, just as He has had on ours. It’s extremely upsetting and disappointing, but at the end of the day, Christ will be King and His Will will be done!
Joy & others who would be kind enough to read this...I listened to Ravi FOR YEARS ...I agree, he did quote scripture...and saying because he was traveling a lot and did not live in community/church with other believers, because other believers support you & make you strong...is like saying Billy Graham who traveled the world was "wrong" as well... or looking at Paul the Apostle or any of them...is also "wrong" the way they lived their lives, "First Corinthians" (especially chapter 5) shows us that an entire church can get wrapped up in & even coddle & condone another's sin... Revelations shows us Jesus pointing out the sins in each "congregation", even Philadelphia, "because they left their first love"... and Jesus/Father God allowed John to be isolated & banished to the island of Patmos where he received some of the greatest revelations of his life. Moses, 40 years on the backside of the desert before being used...Joseph a slave... I could go on... THE LEADERS of the CHURCH MUST STOP CONDEMNING each other...and JUDGING... because we ALL will stand before the judgement seat of Christ one day...and give accounts for EVERY "idle word"... Each of us will "stand" or fall before OUR MASTER... These kinds of post, PUSH those who do NOT KNOW JESUS away from Him...NO ONE...I say NO ONE.. but Jesus knows what was in the heart of Mr. Zacharias... These are perfect opportunities to give "altar calls"... explaining the power of sin in one's life... GOD called David a man after His own heart, David committed adultery & murdered & "covered up" these sins for over a year (had many wives & concubines - which totally violated 'for this reason a man shall leave...cleave to his wife...and the two shall become one flesh); but ... Jesus Christ Himself came out of his lineage... what lesson I get from that & other Biblical accounts of life is this...WE HAVE AN EXTREMELY MERCIFUL GOD...maybe The Lord allowed Ravi to catch cancer so he would "come home"...and the sin would cease...and be revealed... and people WOULD LOOK TO THE LORD...and NOT TO LEADERS OF A CHURCH...realizing we all fit into the category of...there is NO ONE RIGHTEOUS...NO NOT ONE...and all of OUR "RIGHTEOUSNESS" is as filthy rags... There seems to be waves of PRIDE on that stage...and the enemy has twisted God's word coming from these "seasoned" men of God (as satan tried to even do with Jesus)...& sadly...they are to blind to see it...I will continue to pray for John MacArthur has I have for many years...but it's sad to see things such as this...its by GRACE we are saved, by FAITH...NOT by our own WORKS, even the yes we spoke... accepting Jesus, IS A GIFT...Blood was the high cost...we need not shame the Lord with our displays of pointing fingers...but show His grace by telling others...ANY ONE CAN FALL...no matter who they are... who knows how many times Ravi may have repented...or even if he did...that's between he & the Lord... but the shame at the judgement seat & the loss of reward hearing "well done"... that would be the pain...imagine GODS PAIN watching Ravi sin...(but we must remember the Prodigal); he was NEVER NOT A SON...even in his pigpen life style...Ravi got caught in the pigpen...hurting many & breaking The LORDS HEART...Let's love OUR FATHER Church, Jesus said, we would show our love to Him, by obeying Him, let's invest our lives in prayer & studying to show ourselves 'approved"...working out our OWN salvation with fear & trembling! My heart goes out to all who read this...to those who do not know Jesus...He tells us to LOOK TO HIM & be saved ...not to any man... for ALL...ALL....ALL...have sinned & come short of the glory of GOD...even those in this video!!
I'm not defending the actions of Ravi, but John is wrong when he says Ravi never quoted scripture. There are multiple examples of Ravi doing exactly that in videos on UA-cam. I had a devotion book by Ravi, where every reading was based on a series of verses. I think all of this is more complex than the responses I'm hearing from Christian leaders.
Hey,Satan knew the scriptures and quoted the word. It didn't change who he really was. His actions showed who he was. We are warned ,BE SURE YOUR SINS WILL FIND YOU OUT. Also there comes a time in life when your heart can become so harden until you can't and won't repent.
@@rosemarybetts4467 Not sure how that relates to the point I was making. I'm simply pointing out that John MacArthur's claim that Ravi didn't quote scripture is false, and easy to prove as being false.
Well gentlemen we are all weak so let us get off our high horses and thank God we have been saved and protected by His Grace and not talk too much about Ravi or any fallen man of God in a judgemental way, Ravi's family must be going through hell. And you guys talk as though you don't sin in your thoughts, words, and deeds.
The word of God say’s we will know them by their fruit. His fruit was demonic not given by Holy Spirit. We are warned about such leaders / preachers. He will be judged by the word of God, repentance means you confess your sin to God and you quit practicing it. This is real and the promise to true born again Christians. Confess, repent, and quit doing it.
Ravi did this to his family with the help of Satan. Remember Satan is here to kill , steal, and destroy our lives and all that allow Satan to enter in and control us this is exactly what he did to Ravi and his family .
I have issue with discussing someone who is not there to defend himself. McArthur openly admits he met him several times and was struck by how he "never quoted scripture." So why didn't he approach him then, and say, hey man. Everything ok in your life? I have Godly concern. McArthur also believes God picks and chooses who will be saved, so it's no surprise he's being judgmental now....
The bible say's God already knew who would be saved from the foundation of the world.Jesus died for the whole world, but not all will be saved. example of predestination John the baptist was filled with Holy Spirit while he was still in Elizabeths womb. So,was he the elect ?
Exactly! God has given me the right through inheritance to judge and test the spirits. If I don’t use this inherited gift then I would be that deceived follow of Ravi and found guilty - never cared for the man after testing him!
John McCarthur's net worth is supposedly around $15 million. "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God." -Jesus "If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor" -Jesus Maybe he should question his own salvation before questioning everyone else's The point is, only the blood of Christ can save us, because none of us are perfect, even believers
It’s so easy to judge or come to any conclusion is t it. I say we best examine ourselves and leave the judgement to the Lord. If He can use a donkey certainly any of us as well.
This needs way more likes. "Is Ravi in Hell?" What the "Hell" kind of question is that? Galatians 6:1 for me. God searches and knows the heart. That's not our job.
If Ravi's salvation depends on what he did or did not do - then Jesus died in vein. For all have fallen short of the Glory of God. It's belief in the finish work of the Cross that salvation is freely given to a believer. So you say, Ravi was a sinner - as we all are; that is, unless you are claiming being without sin from your highly-paid-pulpit-professional careers.
@Kerusso Apologetics What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, has found? For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.” Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due. But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness, just as David also speaks of the blessing on the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works: “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds have been forgiven, and whose sins have been covered. Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord will not take into account” (Romans 4:1-8). - Copied from ref. www.onepassionministries.org/transcripts/2017/10/19/romans-41-3
@@rosemarybetts4467 Romans10:6-7 6But the righteousness that is by faith says: “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’b (that is, to bring Christ down) 7or, ‘Who will descend into the Abyss?’c (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).”
No Ravi's destiny depends on what was controlling his life, Flesh and blood will not inherit the kingdom of God. Ravi was walking in the flesh. The flesh represents the world. We are warned about the lust of the flesh and when we RECEIVE the promise of the Holy Spirit that in powers us to walk in newness of life. He was still living in immorality even though he claimed to have been delivered. We will know them by their fruit.
We are ALL sinners! Ravi is no different, we will sin to the day we die. If Ravi is guilt of all this stuff (big If) it still doesn't mean he is not saved. Being saved does not make you completely stop sinning. But, being marked with the seal of the holy sprit will HELP you fight fleshly desires! You will still occasionally sin but, the hope is that as you grow and mature in the Sprit you will do less Sin as you become more wise in your walk with Christ. I do believe Ravi IS SAVED, I just think he allowed some of his fleshly desires to win occasionally. I would have to believe (Based on personal experience) that Ravi would have struggled with his issues if he were really doing them( you can struggle with an issue and still commit the offence, it takes time to completely stop doing something, the key is was he struggling with it, we DONT KNOW). A person that is doing wrong KNOWS he is doing wrong but, the sign of a repentant heart is that guilt you feel after doing the wrong thing and not wanting to continue doing those wrongs. How many times have you messed up doing the SAME BAD thing over and over again EVEN AFTER YOU WERE SAVED? We all do so ill leave off with this, as scripture states in John 8:7, "So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone.....". We are ALL GUILTY so let us not cast stones ourselves. RIP RAVI!!!
I see most of the comments are from confused people... The question was primarily if Ravi was a Christian when he was practising these things... The other guy explicitly says we don't know if he repented at the end, but his lifestyle was not Christian. That said, Jmac did take it too far by asking if he was in hell... That's not for us to have an opinion on.
It's not a bad idea to imagine people in hell. It's a real place that we should not want people to end up in... In the Bible we are given the image of the rich man in hell with Lazarus in Abraham's bosom. Grasping the reality of hell, and imagining people we love in that place--out of God's presence--may help us adjust our perspective to see this earthly life for the vapor we're told it is. Jesus creates a scenario of hell at which place people (goats) will say "Lord, Lord, didn't I do these things for you?" and it's best that we take that scenario and apply it to the picture of a wide gate which many go through, quite possibly the people sitting next to us in the pew, or at our dining room table. We need to make the most of every opportunity for the days are evil... imagining the possibility of recognizably faces in hell may help develop within us an urgency to demonstrate and draw people to Christ and a less intense pleasure or contentment in video games, TV series, social media, and these videos we comment on here.
Ravi Zacharias. What a textbook example of someone having "head knowledge" of the truth without true repentance and faith. A person who has tasted the heavenly gift and shared in the (things of) the Holy Spirit and tasted the goodness of the Word of God...(Heb 6:4-6) but never gone past tasting into personal trust and receiving. I remember hearing somewhere of someone who was on a trip to the Holy Land, and their guide was telling a lot of truths from the Gospels and he led them. The tourist took it for granted that the guide was a Christian, but when he talked to him afterwards, found that he was Muslim. The guide knew how to describe facts, but did not believe those facts. Head knowledge does not save. Jesus Christ saves through repenting faith that fully receives rather than just tasting.
MacArthur is a god lol😂😂😂😂 He also clearly attacked the people protesting the nazis in Charlottesville but wouldn't denounce the nazis, alt right, and white nationalists who murdered Heather Hyer.
He said he spent time with him at events and never heard him quote scripture, not that in his career he didn't, however I personally only have watched a few of his sermons and I quit watching him because I didn't hear him preaching scripture either.
Quoting the word is easy, the hard part is keeping it. And that is possible by the power of Almighty God . God would never tell us to keep his commandments and then no give us the way to do it. Jesus said I am the way and the truth and the life .
Who knows how much hypocrisy exists in religious or political circles, where words are the tools of the trade. And you don't get rid of hypocrisy by adding more words.
Matt. 7:21-23 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
very fitting in reference to these modern day Pharisees..., He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. Where is the greatest in all of these is "Love"? Where? Change this UA-cam Channel to "Let's Judge Others" Channel
@@robbiesemu821 i don't think you understand what the pharisees were doing. I'm sorry you need to read the scriptures ask the Lord for the understanding. These men here don't have any power over Ravi nor do the have authority to extricate him from the synagogue or the temple. We need to hear it so that we can all learn from it. This is not gossip because his own ministry investigators published the results. I'm quite sure that wasn't the only topic or questions at this session. Please think people.
That is exactly what God told us , and as a Christian I judge myself daily so that I stay in the presence of Jesus expecting Him to cleanse me and hear my prayers.
Yes, Waikiki you are right. the reason everyone wants to believe that Ravi was ok in his sin,and that is the same kind of church sermons we are hearing today.candy coated, no problem everyone is a sinner and all will be forgiven and all go to heaven. No judgement, just forgiveness and happy days ahead. NOT TRUE, OUR WORLD AND MOST OF OUR SPIRITUAL LEADERS ARE CONTROLLED NOT BY THE WORD OF GOD, BUT BY THE POWER OF MONEY AND POWER TO CONTROL POOR UN CONVERTED PEOPLE THAT DON'T KNOW THAT THE POWER OF GOD DOES DELIVER US FROM COMMITING SIN HERE AND NOW. GOD DID MAKE A PROVISION FOR TRUE BELIEVERS THAT MAY OCCASIONALLY SIN ,JESUS IS OUR ADVOCATE AND INTERCEEDS FOR US. BUT THE ONLY PEOPLE GIVEN THIS PRIVILEGE ARE TRUE BORN AGAIN CHRISTIANS. NOT THOSE LIVING IN THE WORLD.
I am a Sinner saved solely by the work done through Christ. I don't how I would get to a point of Self-Righteousness to imply someone is burning in Hell because of their Sins.
You said it. As we judge, so we will be. Johnny Mac better be sure he is without sin, sitting on a stage questioning essentially God's Grace, Christ's atonement, and another man's heart, whether properly repented to his personal LORD or not. Wow.
He is not saying he is without sin. But Ravi's fruit at the core of his life was rotten. Sanctification works to transform you to be Christ like. It does not do the opposite. And Ravi loved sin more than Christ and that is 100% true.
@@igloozoo3771 When did I say I don’t sin? We all sin everyday whether we know it or not. And we all act self righteous at times. I catch myself doing it, but then I ask God to help me in that area and all the areas I need help in. But to continuing to willfully sin and to make your whole day built around your secret sin and to lie and to cover that sin is not what someone who is born again would do. It’s just not, I am sorry. Gifts are given to us without repentance. Ravi had a gift and sadly he never turned to Christ and repented. True believers are at war with sin and unbelievers are okay with sinning. You will know them by their fruit.
@@ed0078 who, what and when did I call anyone a false prophet?...I quoted Matthew 7:15... Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravening wolves.
There seems to be something unfair saying something is a “dead giveaway” of a person not being a Christian AFTER they died. Did MacArthur ever confront or talk about Ravi’s salvation when he was a alive?
@@WakeRunSleep yes, I see that now; I was focused on what those who are still living on this "old earth" can learn from considering the reality of people dying and going to hell, whereas your focus is on: where was the speaking Truth in love to Ravi while he was still among us? (which is actually what I was considering to be the valuable reason for discussing people going to hell after death: to remind us of what we should be doing for each other, as commissioned by Jesus, while we are able. So sorry, shilohwillcome! Thanks for drawing my attention back.)
We have all fallen short of the Glory of God. Let he who has not sinned cast the first stone. If these accusations are true then shame on Ravi and if they are false may the LORD forgive each one of us. Show me a blameless Man on this Earth I'd like to meet them.
@@robbiesemu821 What assumptions am I making? Hey, if you want to bury your head in the sand and hold up your idol, you go right ahead. Your feelings don’t trump facts. If standing for truth makes me an ass, so be it. I’m fine with that.
Giving the word of God is not casting a stone. Executing without the God given authority is. The scriptures say repent, trust in Christ, and sin no more.
Ravi did quote the scripture. He knew it very well. It was amazing how well he knew the scripture without looking it up. We are not the judge of anyone. Only God knows a man’s heart 🙏
Wwwwwwait a minute! (Screeching tire sound) This man Zacharias owned a string of massage parlors for years??!! And that didn't give anyone a clue that something might be a (just a little?) off???
only the lord knows where Ravi is, i believe he had a false gospel anyway, its not yr performance, because we have to b perfect to go to heaven, we need christs righteousness.
@@rinaboffa4512 exactly amen ! This is what gets me with so many self professed Christians is none of them want to admit the false counterfeit Christianity that’s leading many astray with false idol worship side step the commandments of God to hold to traditions of men!!!! It’s like they are scared to admit and expose it !!! I only saw one man who is Christian pastor or is pretty known there was a video he did on exposing false Christianity Paul washer but that video I can’t find anymore on UA-cam hmmm I wonder why
*”For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? But them that are without God judgeth.”* (1 Corinthians 5:12-13). Judging sin is one of the abilities of the Spirit enabling believers to judge among themselves and that of others (see 1 Corinthians 2:15).
Exactly. It’s all well and good to say well in hindsight I knew he was a “dodgy” because he “never quoted the scriptures” even though he frequently did is only a mistake made by people not wanting to associate with those kinds of “sinners”.
I agree though I don't think this scenario is presented to us in scripture. There is precedent for judging one another "Who am I to judge those outside of the church? Are we not to judge those inside" but I do not hear judgement in these men's voices, I hear sorrow. I don't think it is out of the realm of possibility that Ravi actually was saved. But at the same time I think a grave sorrow can be had at this time of loss.
@@veggiet2009 Romans 10:6-7 6But the righteousness that is by faith says: “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’b (that is, to bring Christ down) 7or, ‘Who will descend into the Abyss?’c (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).”
He never exposited from scripture, he may have thrown in a random quote once in a blue moon. His sermons were mostly story-telling and philosophical musings.
What an Amazing Meeting of God fearing Men!!! They werent judging the dead pastor, as if they were sinless. They were simply stating certain facts about what it means to be a true and solid christian who can be assumed to be Saved, and going to heaven... Nothing wrong with these means arguments about the deceased!!! Just honest comments comparing the difference between a trusted believer, and the life style of the man in question... None of those pastors are perfect. But the Bible says we christians are to judge those within the church. In this case, those pastors were simply pointing out what the Bible says about Godly lifestyles that can be trusted as genuine, as opposed to a questionable lifestyle .. They werent judging wrongly as if they are petfect.. before being angry with those men on stage, consider none of us are perfect. But we still need to address the behavior of our fellow brothers and sisters in church
He may have been set up ... Listen to his own wife and sons side of the story ... there is something fishy to the whole story. They still have shown 0 visual evidence of Ravi acting like that. What should be worrying is if Ravi is innocent and McArthur is actually misrepresenting 1 of Gods true children?
@@lluuiiss3344 that was a thought of mine, too. I decided to not investigate, because I don't really want to know. There are enough things going on that I CAN control, I don't need this issue distracting me.
First off, I’m a huge Ravi fan, and I’m strongly against the concept of questioning someone’s salvation due to particular flaws or bad decisions. But I totally understand what these guys are saying. Ravi wasn’t simply making “bad decisions” and hiding affairs. He was systematically preying on women for years and forcing them to have sex with him. It wasn’t that he struggled with sin, he was entirely delighting himself in an endless ocean of sin. For years and years he was manipulating countless women and sexually assaulting them without any evidence of hesitation. As much as I hate to say it, I think it’s completely reasonable to question if he was truly born-again. He may have just been a really really really great speaker of religion and philosophy.
Exactly. Based on this I would say he’s in hell. 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.
Yes I'm conflicted also. Is it just approaching it wrong and they should... Never mind. Yes now that I've thought about it typing this comment they were wrong in questioning his salvation. What is salvation? It's not even noteworthy to mention here. Salvation is in Christ Jesus. They were wrong, they should have presented it as flat out was Ravi a Christian or was he walking in Christ. They approached this wholly wrong. His salvation is not for us to question. Truly it isn't. Only God knows the hearts of men. His relationship with Christ and struggles are his own and private. His actions are however and should be pointed out, and if he was a Christian. What did he preach, was it biblical? Did his actions in the ministry and direction he took it follow what the bible called for? That is a conversation to be had. I never got into his teachings or know much about his ministry beyond some youtube videos. I do think it most importantly was telling at the end when he said he never heard Ravi teach to quote the bible. That is kinda a big one for me to hear if I'm going to invest in someones teachings... That tells me Jesus was not the focus, all truth comes from him, the truth in scripture overflows, there is no reason it shouldn't have been constantly quoted and cross referenced to establish moral and ethical arguments. There are so many practical historical examples in scripture and Holy Spirit inspired revelation. That would make me question if such person was a Christian more than any misconduct ever would.
From personal experience with the Lord, and some of you can attest to this, that if you knowingly sin, the Holy Spirit will beat your behind real good with conviction! But if you don't have His indwelling presence, a person will continue in sin without a sense of conviction. May I and those who truly love the Lord never experience an unrepentant heart.
Why didn’t these men go and minister to him? Rather than sit in judgement. How is that loving? Do you really care for souls if you sit there gossiping and questioning someone dead, and who was struggling with a grip of sin! Aren’t they the church who is supposed to support and hold accountable by loving rebuke and encouragement to trim from sin. So that he may repair his relationship with God? This is why the world disregards Christianity and calls it false. This is shameful.
I started to rebut your comment around the 5 min mark when I read it.. as I typed I heard John MacArthurs last comment about Ravi not quoting scripture and that was a dead giveaway.. he certainly had a responsibility to not only address his concerns with Ravi for Ravis sake, but for the millions of people who would be deeply affected by hearing how horrible a person he truly was when they respected him as a great Christian apologist.. I’m not sure about the rest of the men, but Johnny Mac is not unlike the well disciplined brother in the story of the prodigal.. or a Pharisee..he is also in a similar “untouchable” position like Ravi was.. when will we learn??
The audacity to call Ravi’s salvation into question, no matter his level of public or private failure, is one of the most arrogant and self-righteous platforms I have ever heard. Good thing Jesus is mighty to save because we ALL depend on it. “Oh, you great saints, if you have outgrown the need of a sinner’s trust in the Lord Jesus, you have outgrown your sins, but you have also outgrown your grace, and your saintship has ruined you!” Spurgeon.
I get it. I too have a emotional attachment to Ravi. I've learned SO much from him, he's a hero of mine. But the facts are out and we have to obey God rather than man and speak about these complex and sad issues so that we don't allow ourselves, nor, our brothers and sisters to go astray.
I cannot even wrap my head around another's salvation or the sin they are in, I have enough fear and trembling about my own. I'm beginning to wonder how anybody makes it. I know the theology of it, but it's working out is such a mystery to me. I will admit at this point of my own life I have more than a little fear. God help me, God help all those believing.
🙏🏾
This is why we have to draw ever closer to Jesus throughout our lives, trusting in him, not ourselves and especially not anything of this world.
I too often wonder how anybody makes it. I read in the Bible about how we must understand the Word of God properly and accurately, not perfectly mind you, and how this is part of what it means to be saved. I see so much division in interpretations and such in modern day evangelicalism that I really do wonder on how or if people are saved. I have often wondered if my dad was saved, seeing as he passed away a few years ago. What make this even more frustrating for me in my wondering is that because I hold to reformed theology, I have had people say that I do not believe in the same God as them, and that I needed to leave their church, which was a Calvary Chapel. I hear you and sympathize with your sentiment. God help us indeed.
Great Post and I believe if your worried your in a good place:)
The wages of sin IS death, BUT the Gift of God is Eternal life through Jesus our Lord.
In his own words -
“Sin will take you farther than you want to go, keep you longer than you want to stay, and cost you more than you want to pay. “
Yes, the fact that he would frequently recount such realities and yet he, himself was unrepentantly committing them speaks volumes.
Makes me so sad to think about
@@jackjones3657
How do you know that? You don’t...neither does the guy on the stand.
@@jackjones3657 nobody knows if he was repentant...
Or if he was struggling with it..or indulging
Very odd 🤔 This is what Ravi Zachariah used to say
I've just listened to this for the first time. John MacArthur really hit the nail on the head when he said that Ravi never quoted or read scripture. He always spoke in philosophical terms. I tried listening to Ravi several times over the last few years and could never listen for long and wondered why his style of teaching/preaching was so applauded. When John made that comment, it finally clicked. It is the Word that has power; not any man or woman's philosophical rants or teaching.
John Mac, like 99% of preachers, is a bible warping, modern Pharisee who doesn't support ALL 10 COMMANDMENTS. John will even admit this since it is archived in his GRACE sermons. Modern Christianity has been contaminated to the point that it is a superficial, superstitious LAW trashing, GOD rejecting blood cult with fictional soteriology and anti-nomianism...loaded with ambiguous, abstract, obscure religious lingo and cliches. Inept preachers have come to the point of presenting mostly irrelevant sermons.
I totally agree. Human philosophical wisdom is just down right dead and I just could not get with it.
Agreed. I listened to Ravi for a while and came to the same realization. It’s all storytelling. I stopped listening.
100% agree. I could never understand him and its right, he never quoted scripture
I too tried listening and enjoyed a few points of his teaching but it seemed to lack power and conviction he quoted other men more than Jesus. I was left wanting more.
Here’s one for you-
I was saved by hearing the gospel for the very first time... from a woman who wasn’t even saved. God can use anybody
True. People like MacArthur act like they are perfect. Ready to stone anyone...
@@Ed_E-HTX Exactly, let those without sin...........cast the first stone.
I was a backslidden preacher’s kid and the Holy Spirit’s use of Ravi in my life in 2011 caused me to recommit my life to Christ.
Your point is not the point of the topic. God can use anybody to reach the heart of His child. The question being discussed in the video is whether Zacharias was saved not whether the people God spoke to through him are saved.
@@ponzism Cristiano Ronaldo melhor jogador de futebol do mundo!
I tell you one thing, the closer you want to get to God, the quicker, more and stronger will satan attack you....I speak from experience.
No doubt satan will attack you more, but the more we seek and study his word and the closer we get to God, in knowledge and in spirit, the more we are able to overcome satan and this world
@CodevWithPaul go before the Lord sincerely and ask Him to set you free. Keep doing it until you're 100% free.
@@samnyb7266 Amen
Is that why johnny mac always looks so relaxed and carefree
@CodevWithPaul i wish johnny mac had the same courage as you. No doubt he will judge you though. I will pray for you mate. God bless you.
I agree
Please pray for me and my wife
We desperately desire to find a good church here in my small Australian town
I hope you found a church. You might have to move to a larger city - it's that important.
Did you end up finding a church?
@@samuelrosenbalm thank you for taking the time to ask me this. The answer is not yet. This small coastal Aussie town just isn’t helping much. I’ve had four actual pastors *( one youth) totally ghost me and my wife. Kinda a kick in the gut tbh. Hmmm….. I think God hates me.
@@joannekinsella9904 no…I’ve tried and tried and I’m too tired to keep begging people here to care if I’m alive or dead.
@@cmdesign01 if an in-person church doesn't seem to be available at the moment, there's lots of online resources. A lot of churches stream or record and post their sermons, that could be something to google. (I'm not really referring to those progressive megachurches though).
" My brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth and someone brings him back, let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins."- James 5:19
Very relevant... If you're not par of a church ..who do you have around you to bring you back from sin...
On a deeper lever this also speaks of the kind of closeness we should have with our brethren..
There are people with Ravi's blood on their hands too. Has to be.
Ezek 3:17:21
I wonder if people knew and if they tried, but were rebuffed. Or maybe his deceit was so skilled that nobody knew except the victims.
Ravi's dead. MacArthur's still living. He can still be brought back from error.
@@timjohnson6613 What error?
I just want to say this, the Bible is filled with imperfect people and God still used them to glorify and exalt His name. Keep fighting the good fight everyone and may God bless us all!
Amen!
@Sam A I don’t in any way want to argue but I just want to say that Jesus came to set the captives free and give us power to overcome. While there were definitely wonderful people of God in the Old Testament, we can’t compare ourselves to them or allow ourselves to sin because they did, Christ had not yet come to give power to overcome. The Gospel is the power of God to set us free from the power of the devil.
Amen!! Killers adulter's etc
True.
@@YYZUnderbelly, We (or king David) can know the Lord and commit adultery…but it’s whether we STAY in that sin that counts. We need to REPENT (be genuinely sorry & stop. Completely.) before we will be saved. There’s no such thing as once saved always saved. There are sins in the Bible that are clearly laid out for all to see that if we do them (without repentance) we won’t mKe it i to the kingdom. Period.
Lord demonstrate your mercy on all of us.
God does that when we humble ourselves before him, James 4:6.
Ravi led to me to Christ. That's all I can say.
Focus on the savior Himself, sister or brother. Pray that you do not get distracted in this challenging time.
No , God through the Holy Spirit drew you to the truth and you believed in Jesus . The word does not go void no matter who brings it forth.Faith comes by hearing the word of God and the Holy Spirit of God is the one that leads you to all truth. The promise is that once you are saved and become a real Christian you are given power to over come the world.We are in the world but no longer of the world. Not controlled by our old fallen nature.
Galatians 5: 16-21 Those who will NOT inherit the kingdom.
There you go
God always uses a fallible human being to lead others to him
I’m 54 years old. I have learned thankfully in my life that I am a sinner. More importantly, I’ve learned that Jesus came to save sinners like me. I struggle every day, but I try to not sin. I also never dare to say or even think about another persons salvation because only God has that right. I have to worry about my own salvation in fear.
You are absolutely right! We all sin daily. Every man who lusts after a woman has commits adultery in his heart. Matthew 5:27-28. That covers most if not all men.. The woman that the Pharisees brought to Jesus was caught in the very act of adultery and Jesus said ....” He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.”. John 8:7b. We all sin and that is why we need Jesus. We do not have the right to judge another. Read Romans chapters 1-2. We are not worthy to judge another’s heart. You would have to be God to do that. Jesus is the measuring stick so we all fall short. Only by believing in Him can we get into heaven. It is Jesus alone who makes us worthy. Nothing that we do can make us worthy. As believers we are covered by the shed blood of Christ. The tax collector in the temple who prayed “God be merciful to me a sinner” Luke 18:9-14, was justified according to what Jesus said, even though he was a “sinner” According to James, chapter 2 verse 13, mercy triumphs over judgement.
You haven't been reading the scriptures then...Paul says to ppl living ungodly..test yourself..to see if you're in the faith..
Jesus said you will know false teacher by their fruit..
And so on..it's not biblical to turn a blind eye to everyone else and just focus on yourself...you can win someone back from sin....you who are spiritual can restore someone.
@The Righteousness of God In Christ Jesus - thanks for saying that.
@The Righteousness of God In Christ Jesus the reality is not all Christians hold the view that the sacrifice of Christ was efficacious...
Many believe Christ essentially just made a way from them to be saved..but now it's on them to work to be saved.
Very well put Dennis. Especially questioning another's status with God. We can not and must not judge. We can however, make corrections by way of prayer and discernment
That statement about the local church being an important support structure to any growing and maturing christian is loaded with wisdom. We need a church community even if we are travelling ministers, and if possible, cut out a bit on our travels.
Wise words
True
The real local church is what we see in the book of Acts where they went town to town preaching the Gospel, healing the sick, casted out demons in the name of Jesus. They went out in pairs of two and did this as disciples of Jesus Christ. The word disciple appears in bible about 73 times while Christian appears maybe 3 times. Read Acts to understand what the true church was because they pulled resources together and went to preach the Gospel, helping one another and others in need. Today we give to a church but people stay inside the four walls. Its not just in Word but in power so apply what Jesus taught his disciples and thats when you will see God move. If we only do our own will and not His will and lay down our lives for Him and living in iniquity will He not say depart from Me for i do not know you. We pray for our finances, a house, a promotion, etc but we should pray to do His will such as for changing of hearts and minds, healing broken marriages, healing from depression, anxiety, etc. Lets be the church, not just go to church. Our identity and authority comes from Jesus so seek the source. We rely too much on pastors but depending on the season Jesus will equip you to do His will if you allow Him. He can use you to be an apostle, evangelist, prophet, pastor or teacher. He's called us to make disciples but all we do is bring people to church. Is a pastor around you 24 hours a day? Jesus is always 24 a day so obey what He tells us and you will see God move, even in the local church
At the end of the day, it’s between Ravi and the Lord... Only God knows what’s in Ravi’s heart when he was near the end of his life. No one knows... His sin just reminds us that all of us are tempted whether a preacher, an apologetic or a christian member of a church... We still can commit sin... The good news is “If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.1 John 1:9”.
Lilia... please watch Mike Winger's video on Ravi. He was still known to be receiving illicit pictures from a woman he wasn't married to up until at least February 2020- three months before he passed away. He continually received illicit messages throughout the ordeal with Lori Anne Thompson, all while defending himself as a pious man.
I'm not saying it's impossible he could've repented in the last 3 months of his life; I AM saying he had a long-term pattern of unrepentant, evil actions.
@@conorreedR2C there was nothing evil about this man
@@mitchdavis7245 there is nothing good in man but Christ; the only good that could've possibly been inside Ravi was Christ. God knows the contents of Ravi's heart. Whether or not Ravi was repentant is ultimately between him and God.
In Romans 7:15-20, Paul is lamenting his inability to follow the law of Moses, by which he knows he is sinning. He acknowledges that there is no good, or even the capacity for good, in him and is confessing publicly his sin for the benefit of the Church. Ravi never did this; in fact, he sinned even more to cover up his sins. He defamed the woman he abused and ruined her and her husband's lives for years to come. This is not how godly men, letalone church leaders, are supposed to act. He never allowed himself to come under church discipline and/or legal justice for his actions. He has ultimately answered to God for this because he fought to save his reputation in the eyes of man.
Matthew 16:24-28, ESV
"²⁴Then Jesus told his disciples, 'If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. ²⁵For whoever would save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. ²⁶For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul? Or what shall a man give in return for his soul? ²⁷For the Son of Man is going to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay each person according to what he has done. ²⁸Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.'"
Again, only God knows the condition of Ravi's heart; he knows if Ravi's confession & repentance was legitimate. That said, we know Ravi was not a good man, not only through his actions but through the words of Paul assuring us that we will never be good on account of our own heart and deeds. What Ravi did while in the flesh was pure evil. Our only hope is in Christ, and that Ravi knew that.
That's true, but we don't think he did what he was accused of. Read the content under the video as well.. ua-cam.com/video/fUMDn9sf8wg/v-deo.html
Ravi disgraced the Lord Jesus publicly and caused His enemies to gain reason to question this Grace we all have in
Christ !
I am extremely disappointed, not just in Ravi, but in all those supporters of Ravi willing to ignore, question the integrity of these victims of Ravi, and claim that now it is unfair since Ravi is not here to defend himself.
That is total hogwash and l will go so far as to question where you stand in Christ if you are willing to not see the truth as it is. This behavior went on for years, and when these women did come forward he did what all abusers do, he blamed them, questioned them, turned on them.
Now that we know that they were telling the truth for years and he lied for years, we still have supporters of Ravi continuing to behave like enablers.
I ask, what would cause you Ravi supporters to pause and step back and say "whoa, what is this?"
What did you guys do when these allegations first came to light ?
I know what a lot of you did, you took your cue from Ravi and doubled down on criticizing his accusers, saying vile and degrading things about each of them.
This entire episode does not reflect well on the Church of Jesus Christ.
Zero humility, zero repentence, zero accountability... Total secular behavior Hollywood style. It came away the same as if a Hollywood star or a politician was the central figure.
I am as l say, disappointed in Ravi and l cannot tell you where he is right now, except to say that if it was me who did all that he did, which he did, STOP DENYING IT, It is beyond that !!
Had l done what he did and in my hospital bed knowing he was gonna face the Lord soon, it would be the ONLY decision to come out 100% clean and publicly humiliate himself and plead mercy and forgiveness of Christ, who is full of mercy.
I would confess to ALL I WAS GUILTY OF and to publicly declare these women as truth tellers. I would do this because it is what a true believer would if accused in this way and knowing l was guilty of such.
Ravi did not do this, he did not confess. Perhaps he thought he would not be forgiven.
Perhaps he didn't truly believe in God ultimately because he did not seem to fear God in the end.
He came across as a wise man, most times.
The Bible says the beginning of wisdom is the fear of the Lord.
Ravi did not fear the Lord.
This sorry saga is behind us all and his sorry legacy is where it should be...He is disregarded !!
No one cares about Ravi Zacharias, except for his most staunchest enablers, and so no one cares about them as well.
The more you defend him, the deeper you drive him into obscurity and mire.
Think of how much sweeter his legacy would have been if he was not a secret sinner living a separate sexually debauched life without Christ !
My heart broke when I heard this story. It is almost unfathomable. This man who was the epitome of Christianity and seemed so deeply committed and cared so much for humanity doing these acts. But then I have seen it so much in pastors around me and other Christians. But I must continually examine my own life to ask God to work in my life and hold me accountable. I know I must be careful because it makes me very depressed to see how far we have sunk as a society and what we deem as acceptable.
@@thelegend21804 I hear you. But I must say that Jesus dealt with this on earth. His disciples deserted him and Judas betrayed him and then he was crucified for being the savior. So really I guess we can’t be that surprised at Ravi.
John Mac, like 99% of preachers, is a bible warping, modern Pharisee who doesn't support ALL 10 COMMANDMENTS. John will even admit this since it is archived in his GRACE sermons. Modern Christianity has been contaminated to the point that it is a superficial, superstitious LAW trashing, GOD rejecting blood cult with fictional soteriology and anti-nomianism...loaded with ambiguous, abstract, obscure religious lingo and cliches. Inept preachers have come to the point of presenting mostly irrelevant sermons.
Ravi was just using those massage parlors as a way to spread the word.
😔
Do you remember the name of the massage parlor? It was called Touch of Eden.
Praise God that my behavior has ZERO to do with my justification before God. If it did, we would all be in trouble. My faith is built on nothing less than Jesus' blood and righteousness. I dare not trust the sweetest frame (i.e. my behavior), but WHOLLY LEAN on Jesus' name.
🙏 Amen
Amen - these men are pushing false doctrine.
Amen
All I know is we cannot know what was in Ravi’s heart and mind. It is God and God alone who knows.
Yet we are to test the spirits
From the abundance of heart, you live, you act. I think that’s clear
we know when we listen. Either we recognize him as a true brother, or we don't. But that's tied to our own level of discernment, and that is how the Spirit works in us according to the gifts God gave us by birth.
yes
You shall know them by their fruits
I've watched Ravi and he quoted Scriptures.
Satan quoted Scripture to Jesus.
@@user-bm4xd4ir5x perfect response 👌👏
@@user-bm4xd4ir5x but Satan quoted Scripture out of context.
@@kevinlee1323 See, how easily one can be deceived when it comes to Scripture? Satan correctly quoted Scripture when he tempted Jesus the second time. It was correct quotation. Compare Matthew 4:6 and Psalm 91:11-12.
But Jesus knew it was a trap and knew that it was to tempt God.
So Satan did not twist the Scripture, but the motive was manipulated.
So, any preacher can quote Scripture correctly and still be misleading the flock. I think we just have to be aware of motive and also cherry picking verses or picking translations to fit narrative (Rick Warren does this a lot.)
This is actually tragic because we trust our preachers to tell the truth truthfully.
Test everything!
God bless you!
🙏❤🙏
@@user-bm4xd4ir5x Amen :)))
May God have mercy on us all..
Amen.
Some Christians challenge everyone else's salvation except their own.
Exactly, 💯 sad is I find it amazing how a counterfeit Christianity isn’t talked about
Yep, they set their own selves up as the standard of how far you can go in sin, or how righteous you must live in order to show evidence of salvation. It's a slippery slope.
@@brettpowell3659 it sure is.. and Yeshua is who we aim for and study the scripture to show one approved , Christianity doesn’t do that they aim for the pastor and what he says
@@brettpowell3659 Everyone, and I mean everyone, will be surprised what they got right and what they got wrong.
Who is the guy that starts speaking around 2:00? He said “there’s nothing in scripture that says you have to go and preach sermons all across the country..”
I question his own depth of biblical knowledge, since he didn’t even hesitate with that statement, and any pastor or ‘Christian leader’ that is competent would surely be aware of the great commission given by Christ before he ascended into heaven after his resurrection...
“And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. He who has believed [in Me] and has been baptized will be saved [from the penalty of God’s wrath and judgment]; but he who has not believed will be condemned. These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak in new tongues; they will pick up serpents, and if they drink anything deadly, it will not hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will get well.” So then, when the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, He was taken up into heaven and sat down at the right hand of God. And they went out and preached everywhere, while the Lord was working with them and confirming the word by the signs that followed. ]”
Mark 16:15-20 AMP
www.bible.com/1588/mrk.16.15-20.amp
I thought it was peculiar that MacArthur didn’t call him out on that, especially since it’s something all of the men on that stage would have been familiar with......
Everyone needs to ponder on this verse. Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 2 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.
Ponder it in context. Not out.
Amen. Keeps me awake some nights for sure!
Probably the most sobering and scary things Christ said to those who are deceived. I question my faith all the time especially when I mess up in sin. I trust I’m saved in Christ but it still doesn’t make me stop and see if I’m truly in the faith sometimes. I repented and decided to follow Christ. Sometimes I think satan is trying to place in doubt. It’s a constant battle.
@@SeamusDelion Yes in the context of this passage Jesus was talking about sheep in wolves clothing. False prophets. And trees that bear bad fruit. So yes ponder in this context.
@@coreynoemif3j29 this verse isn't for "Everyone" to ponder is what I am saying. It's for like you said, wolves false teachers etc. Not your average Bible reading church going Christian who doesn't teach.
I feel the whole topic of whether someone is or isn’t a Christian is beyond all of our understanding. I think we should do exactly what C.S. Lewis discusses in “Mere Christianity” and just say someone is a bad Christian. We cannot look into someone’s heart the way Christ can.
What about know them by their fruit, what about judge all things?
@@nathandurant2825 by fruit what do you mean? Fruit of the spirit? Love, joy, peace, long suffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness and temperance? If you mean that, then yes… these are fruits displayed by Christian’s… if you are talking about works or sin… then that’s a dangerous thing if you then try to state that someone isn’t saved from that judgement… instead of attempting to correct them.
I"ve heard Ravi quote scripture many times, conrtrary to what Macarthur says.
Absolutely
Lest we forget, satan also quoted the scriptures when tempting Jesus.
For some reason i feel very uneasy when hearing people especially pastors questioning someone 's Salvation. It seems like their heart is not broken for that person but they turning into pharisees who were always perfect😓
So does the devil
Lets stop, he hid a sinful life from everyone.
He decided to lie about everything he ever achieved scolastically.
Yes he was an amazing teacher, apologist but nonetheless the evidence show he was unrepentant.
So yes its ok to ask: "was he saved"?
I hope he was, only God knows.
But we need to have accountability, all of us.
At all time.
If we are saved by grace thru faith. We are not lost by having sin in our life. All have sinned. Only Jesus knows if anyone is in heaven or hell. All of us should have a goal of righteousness.
Sir or mam, please be very careful with your line of thinking. Without sanctification, no one will see THE LORD!!! IT IS AN IMPOSSIBILITY FOR SOMEONE WHO DIED WITH WILLFUL SINS IN THEIR LIFE WITHOUT REPENTING TO ENTER THE KINGDOM OF GOD. The blood of Christ DOES NOT COVER sins you have made peace with. You must fight all of your sins in order to live in sanctification as God intended, not making peace with them. If Ravi Zacharias died without truly repenting, He IS IN HELL. Bank on it!!!
the Bible also says you'll know a tree from its fruit lol. the dude had victims upon victims. I'm not saying he's in hell, I'm also not saying he's not in hell
Is Judas in hell?
Ed 007 yes according to the scriptures, he is cursed!
Nailed it, Dr.
The grace of God enables us to say NO to ungodliness, worldliness, exercise self-control....
“The Lord knoweth them that are his.” (2 Tim 2:19)
Amen
Amen. He knows those who trust in Him Nahum 1:7
And, "No man will pluck us from His hand". John 10:28 Eternal security.
It sure can be taken away look at Judas!
1 Corinthians 6:9-11
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.
Based on this I would say JMac is right
“The traveling life can be an isolated life and the in community life has a greater potential to be challenged, to be exorted, to be confronted, and to be encouraged to be more like Christ”
Will this hold true about Steve Lawson?
Exactly
Let God be the judge. We are all sinners.
John is not judging him. He is pointing to facts.
@@kenkurth5706 pointing to facts is judging, saying " you did this ". Only Jesus was sinless, therefore He is the only one qualified to be the judge.
@@jeremiahpugula878 Read John 7:24 "Judge not according to the appearance but judge righteous judgement."
We judge all the time but righteously. The scripture has numerous verses on how we are to judge. Pointing out someone sinning is not judging. If a rapist sexually assaults a child we certainly can judge that & should.
The Bible is clear about judging. It's important we judge on a regular basis in order to properly serve & honor God.
God's Word has more than a few verses on this.
We shouldn't be spending our day analyzing & judging people but when we do, don't be hypocritical.
If a friend & brother Christian is cheating on his wife, do we ignore that or judge that act is sinful & talk to him about it. If I ignored it, I wouldn't be much of a friend & brother.
Judge? Yes but not hypocritically.
Proverbs 27:7
Malachi 3:18 "Then shall ye return and discern the righteous from the wicked; between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not."
We can't judge anyone's heart but certainly can their actions.
Try actually "studying" God's word and not just reading it. Your lack of critical thinking skills is scary but unfortunately that seems to be the norm now in America.
This conversation amongst supposedly Christian leaders has somewhat missed an important point of church... the first century church was in homes, amongst relatives and friends.... there weren't pastors, paid church workers... the church was essentially a community, not an organization. The term "local church" isn't found in the bible. It was just church and it really meant the larger Christian body, NOT AN ORGANIZATION that happens to have a building down the street from your home.
Saying this, I am not against church... I belong to one and I love being there. I just don't want the conversation on Heb 10:24-25 to be strictly about being a member of an organization that has 4 walls. If you don't believe me, go check the gospel and tell me, which church or synagogue was Jesus a member of? How about Paul? How about the other apostles? They were itinerant... and some of them wrote part of the bible we are reading today.
I also can't help but to feel that this video has 4 self-righteous men taking a shot at judging a man, when that right belongs to God alone. No one decides who is in hell... and it's counter productive having a debate on that.
May we be less of a pharisee and more like Jesus when he stooped down near the woman caught in adultery....
my leader always point me to never gossip. injust feel like these people, righteous one. are gossiping. i don't know. I always follow what I understand about the scripture. I am not for a debate or something.but clearly, they are pointing fingers to the RZIM as a whole. i don't know. I feel like gossiping now.
Brother, I am afraid you have missed the issue as far as the meaning of church. In Greek,
A church is an assembly of called out believers.
Paul wrote letters to Christians in certain geographical location who assembled in churches . That is why these are called local churches.
Now, read Ephesians 5 - Christ loved the Church and gave Himself for her.
So what is this Church.
We must not confused Church with denominations.
Read Paul's letter to Titus and Timothy.
@@kokkintang9983 thanks, I think what you wrote supports my comments. The way the leaders in the video mentioned about church gave the impression that one must be in a local church as defined in modern times. My point is that we shouldn't be dogmatic about being a member of a church defined as an org.the point made in this video was about Ravi, that he wasn't attending church regularly.... The more important point was whether he had a community of believers to which he was accountable.
I wish John could have discerned how for off Steve Lawson had gone off the rails in the last 5 years. The discussion about a traveling preacher made some sense and not being accountable to a local body made some sense, but Larson taught the Word and was "accountable" to a church through its elders?
Steve did an excellent job deceiving & lying to many people & only God knows the heart. As John said, well-known pastors have to lie to many in order to conceal their sin.
I think we need to judge ourselves and make sure our own lives are in the faith , God is the only judge and he will be a fair judge
Precisely right!....and why is judging oneself so hard to do? I think it's pride, that ugly thing that lurks in, and challenges every one of us!
You are supposed to judge.
MacAuthor's statement about Ravi never quoting scripture is incorrect. I heard him quote it many times and he read from the Bible on many occasions. It's almost as if he doesn't want Ravi to have been truly saved and needs to prove it.
MacArthur was either being unfair or using hyperbole. Ravi could speak for an hour and quote Nietzsche and King Crimson but very few bible verses.
Quoting scripture doesn’t make one saved ! Satan quoted scripture and his destiny is the lake of 🔥!! So Christ said u shall know them by their fruit ! Sad that so many self professed Christians have fallen to a false counterfeit Christianity ✝️!!!! An when one does this makes that person a false convert !! Following another Christ !! It’s warning in the scriptures Christ himself warned his apostles warned and what I find amazing is how so many professed Christians an popular pastors don’t warn of this 🤔 that path to Yeshua is a narrow path and only FEW find it
My critique of hearing this video is only that it comes off callous and many people still aren't ready to hear negative things about Ravi yet.
Yes both these guys made alot of incorrect statements. Saying that scripture doesnt say to evangelise but instead join a church
@@infiniteepoch8 I agree.
“When you have finished committing sin, sin is not finished with you. The first cost is high, but it is only the down payment. You keep paying in your conscience, in your body, in the suffering you produce for your family, your friends, and your community. - Ruth Copeland
garbage but only to be expected from evil man made religion
That was Ruth Copeland. But what the Bible teach you? Read it and you´ll be surprised!
So true.
Actually Mat 28:18-20 explicitly tells us to preach the gospel to all nations. But we must do it while in community with accountability, like Paul who submitted to the other apostles in Jerusalem.
This is the kind of speculation that happens when the basis for one's justification is perfect law-keeping. One's salvation is not based on how well one kept the law, it is based upon being a born again child of God, and NO ONE, not even the magnificent Johnny Mac, can make that judgement. That is an issue between each individual and God.
The bible instructs us to judge ourselves - the church. So we don't have the right to condemn or approve another's destiny we do have the right to confront sin in another confessed believer and bring it under the judgement of God's word.
Hey Yo, just stop.
@@Mike-pj1kv That was exactly what never happened. No one ever confronted Ravi while he lived! Why wait till he die? The timing is odd and so is the Christian community's attitude to cancel him altogether. Ravi has met the Ultimate Judge. That settles the score.
The Bible says you know the tree by the fruit it bears. And Pastor MacArthur is only speaking the Bible and saying what the Bible says. The Bible c says to try the spirit by the spirit. It says my people give me lipservice but their hearts are far from me. A preacher who is teaching God's word but living in habitual sin is a great example of that lip service with an unchanged heart. God's word is the truth and that's like it or not. It's not up for debate. God created us, therefore, He instructs us concerning His eternal truth.
Several times in the Bible it says there believers are qualified to make righteous judgment because of the holy spirit and in fact it says there we will judge the world and the Angels one day. If someone is caught doing a terrible sin especially a multiple of sins and he defends that sin instead of confess it....I dont think that person will repent at the last minute either
"Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees."
-Jesus
exactly
And the Sadducees. And Herod.
But David ate the "showbread."
And a woman bakes 3 loaves WITH leaven. Explain this parable, so we can all be "right with God."
@@duncescotus2342 and roundabouts
I have to repent because I am a Christian but I have been living a double life of watching porn and going to spas to look at women 😔😑 I feel terrible thinking about it and feel very convicted. Every time I did these things I know deep in my heart it is wrong but my flesh took over. Jesus forgive me.
The key is to hate the sin that you practice. If you sincerely want to be free of this sin, and I know what you are going through, God will free you. Thankfully it happened for me, so it can for you. May God bless your honesty and humility.
The fact that you are convicted of your wrong doings , means the Holy Spirit was speaking to you.
Christians are not perfect, we are just forgiven.
So tell me what is the difference in a Christian and a worldly person. There should be some power given to us to over come sin. I think that is why Jesus sent His Holy Spirit to indwell in true believers.
🙏🏼
@The Righteousness of God In Christ Jesus We may not always walk in that power, but it never leaves us and we are able to turn from any strong hold that we want to turn from, because of the power of God that that controls our minds. I have the mind of Christ and I feel this power to over come the lust of the flesh. That is a promise that God promised me when I accepted Jesus Christ as my savior. His power in me would make me able not to sin if I didn't want to. We sin occasionally but not habitually because God won't allow us to do that. He said He over came the world and I could too by his power that he gave me when I believed and received his Holy Spirit. It is real and powerful . What say you !
Please... Just listen to one of Ravi's sermons and you'll see how much he used to quote scripture.
Talking about sins and lies...!
Pride is the worst of them all.
yeah
@Joy Haddad ♡I listened to Ravi FOR YEARS ...I agree, he did quote scripture...and saying that because he was traveling a lot and did not live in community/church with other believers, because other believers support you & make you strong...is like saying Billy Graham who traveled the world was "wrong" as well... or looking at Paul the Apostle or any of them...is also "wrong" the way they lived their lives, First Corinthians (especially Chap 5), shows us that an entire church can get wrapped up in & even coddle & condone another's sin... "The Revelation" (book) shows us Jesus pointing out the sins in each "congregation", even Philadelphia, "because they left their first love"... and Jesus/Father God allowed John to be isolated & banished to the island of Patmos where he received some of the greatest revelations of his life. Moses, 40 years on the backside of the desert before being used...Joseph a slave... I could go on... THE LEADERS of the CHURCH MUST STOP CONDEMNING each other...and JUDGING... because we ALL will stand before the judgement seat of Christ one day...and give accounts for EVERY "idle word"... Each of us will "stand" or fall before OUR MASTER...
These kinds of post, PUSH those who do NOT KNOW JESUS away from Him...NO ONE...I say NO ONE.. but Jesus knows what was in the heart of Mr. Zacharias...
These are perfect opportunities to give "altar calls"... explaining the power of sin in one's life... GOD called David a man after His own heart, David committed adultery & murdered & "covered up" these sins for over a year (had many wives & concubines - which totally violated 'for this reason a man shall leave...cleave to his wife...and the two shall become one flesh); but ... Jesus Christ Himself came out of his lineage... what lesson I get from that & other Biblical accounts of life is this...WE HAVE AN EXTREMELY MERCIFUL GOD...maybe The Lord allowed Ravi to catch cancer so he would "come home"...and the sin would cease...and be revealed... and people WOULD LOOK TO THE LORD...and NOT TO LEADERS OF A CHURCH...realizing we all fit into the category of...there is NO ONE RIGHTEOUS...NO NOT ONE...and all of OUR "RIGHTEOUSNESS" is as filthy rags...
There seems to be waves of PRIDE on that stage...and the enemy has twisted God's word coming from these "seasoned" men of God (as satan tried to even do with Jesus)...& sadly...they are to blind to see it...I will continue to pray for John MacArthur has I have for many years...but it's sad to see things such as this...its by GRACE we are saved, by FAITH...NOT by our own WORKS, even the yes we spoke... accepting Jesus, IS A GIFT...Blood was the high cost...we need not shame the Lord with our displays of pointing fingers...but show His grace by telling others...ANY ONE CAN FALL...no matter who they are... who knows how many times Ravi may have repented...or even if he did...that's between he & the Lord... but the shame at the judgement seat & the loss of reward hearing "well done"... that would be the pain...imagine GODS PAIN watching Ravi sin...(but we must remember the Prodigal); he was NEVER NOT A SON...even in his pigpen life style...Ravi got caught in the pigpen...hurting many & breaking The LORDS HEART...Let's love OUR FATHER Church, Jesus said, we would show our love to Him, by obeying Him, let's invest our lives in prayer & studying to show ourselves 'approved"...working out our OWN salvation with fear & trembling! My heart goes out to all who read this...to those who do not know Jesus...He tells us to LOOK TO HIM & saved ...not to any man... for ALL....ALL....ALL...have sinned & come short of the glory of GOD...even those in this video!!
Ravi should NOT have been in Christian leadership. He might have repented on his deathbed, but he also gave Christianity's opponents plenty of fuel to last a lifetime. Ravi did not fight the good fight or run the good race. He was a fraud who made every Christian look like a hypocrite. He should have never been in a position of leadership.
@@misterjones78 haven't we all given opponents fuel?
@@TJ-kk5zf Come on dude, just admit that there is a serious serious serious hero worship problem in Evangelical Christianity. Admit that Evangelical Christians worship their leaders like Gods and don't hold them accountable. Admit that people who are brave and point out flaws in their leaderships are viciously attacked. Admit that Evangelical Christianity has become a multi-billion dollar industry which is no different from Corporations or Governments. There is no difference. Admit that Christian leaders live lavish lifestyles similar to rock stars and corporate CEO's
When Ravi was all the rage and playing on every Christian radio, I would listen and be impressed with his eloquent speech and great memory of some philosophical ''father'' but in the end I came away empty. He literally had nothing to say. I was perplexed by that. Strange how this world's system will hide the truth from you so that it can perpetuate its grand illusions, like Ravi being an unwavering follower of Christ.
I always felt the same way. It was listening to a great intellect and someone who could repeat everything they’ve read, but no witness of the Spirit. I also thought how Paul said that he came to the Corinthians….not with wisdom of words but in the power of the Spirit. And with Ravi it was ONLY wisdom of words.
@@ben-si3dk Yes! Exactly! I have now learned how important it is for the Spirit to be a witness. If there is no quickening, it should be a sure sign that something isn't from God. But how insidious that Ravi was revered the world over. You couldn't get away from him, even within Christian organizations...Thank God for the Spirit or I would never be able to tell that which is truly from God.
True, he spoke as a man of the world and reasoned like one, not as a spiritual man.
@@Chef_Alpo TY for that, it is very applicable in his case. Reasoning is good, but no spiritual nourishment is bad. I never felt fed after his speeches.
@Guess Work The bible is clear. It minces no words. We are to be holy as God is holy. And while we cannot achieve the level of holiness of God here on earth, we have Christ as our representative before God pleading our case daily. Sanctification is a life time work by God on our minds, but those improvements are important in the life of a Christian, it is the increasing fruit that proves our salvation. Did you hear scripture come from Ravi's mouth regularly? I didn't, He made lots of philosophical quotes. He alluded to God, Christ, & the bible, but a preacher of the word he was not. I am going to say that many theologians, pastors and priests today were false converts. Not all. But many. If the word of God alone is not taught and adhered to , it should be abandoned. We are not to make gods for ourselves. Putting the word or ideas of a man over the word of God is doing just that. We are in the last days. The wolves in sheep's clothing are abounding.
I am glad this showed up at this time, because is this group going to say exactly the same thing about Lawson? Especially MacArthur, who just lied about Zachariah not quoting scripture when I know for a fact that he did quote Jesus and Paul many times
Ravi was a story teller of non verifiable experience.😂😂😂😂😂
Exactly, they are so pharaseecal towards not their own camp
@@abuelbok tool
It is noteworthy to watch how many Christian pastor "celebrities" like the men on this stage have felt compelled to comment on Ravi Zacharias another Christian "celebrity". Notice how neither man on this video have any sense of brokenness for their brother. Yet, they feel the need to share how they are doing celebrity pastor "better" than Ravi did... when it truth it is obvious by watching these men that pastor + celebrity doesn't work in Jesus' kingdom.
thats because they are wolves themselves, they preach a false gospel anyway.;
@@joshuakelley1677 It is noteworthy to watch how there are an ever increasing number of "Christian leader/pastor celebrities" (like the men in this video) who feel compelled to publicly comment on the failure of Ravi Zacharias another Christian "celebrity". Notice how these two men demonstrate the need to painstakingly convince us with example after example that they are somehow doing "Christian celebrity leader" better than Ravi did? Why is it that all these men “on stage” won’t finally admit publicly (something most of us now realize anyway) that celebrity and being a Christian leader do not mix and is the root of the problem being discussed? Then... each of these "celebrities" could walk off of “the stage” leaving their own personally perpetuated and carefully groomed celebrity behind and follow Jesus. PS A surface reading of the Gospels makes it clear how "Christian leader celebrity" is wholly incompatible with Jesus' kingdom.
@@joshuakelley1677 there in lies the point of this thread.
@@joshuakelley1677 the points of the video are quite clear nor are they lost on me. The point I am making concerns the underlying reality of this video and how celebrity and Christian leadership are wholly incompatible in Jesus' kingdom.
I agree
I definitely don't want to be self-righteous. What I'm about to say; I apply to myself first.
(Personally, I struggle with anger. Jesus & Paul both clearly teach that I could lose my salvation, if I continue in anger without repenting.
Yet I'm still struggling with it. Sin has to be dealt with. That doesn't mean sinless perfection.)
This was addressed fairly & a question that should be raised. We should all learn from his sinful example. It also shows we are all sinners. It doesn't matter how talented & respected we are. We have to always deal with our sin, especially patterns of sin. God forgives, but we have to be vulnerable & deal with our sin. God cares about our hearts. ❤️
I am not a supporter of Ravi neither do I like his ministry or work in the least but I say this, he who has no sin or not sinned should first throw a stone. What position or authority do you have to decide if he is in hell or not?
Only a hair dresser will
Know if you have Clairol hair colour In your hair . Only Jesus knows who loves him
God understands more than we do. Scripture is very clear if you think you are standing strong be careful you don’t fall . That fur John MacArthur.
@amoyjoyce1117 true it is only God who knows who is His or not who goes to hell or not.
I've listened to Ravi many times and yes I've heard him quote the scriptures
Same. I think MacAuthur might be a tad jealous of Ravi. We all sin. Many people struggle with sexual sin. Whose to say what the truth is
@@Spawn08th I think he understands the huge huge damage to those holding the person up too high (I have heard him say and warn it to his congregation before). Soo many leaders have fallen to sin and many sexual scandals. Faith shouldn’t be in the person but in God. If satan is going to attack for maximum carnage he hits those held up the highest.
It is not the perfection but the direction.
Leaders and teachers will be judged more harshly as well.
I also believe God can use those who are eloquent and knowledgeable but not true believers to spread an accurate gospel. Just read Philippians 1-
I would hear him mention the Scriptures but never teach it. Most of the time he spoke about what some famous philosopher said.
@@Spawn08th jealous how?
@@aletheia8054 Ravi wasn’t a pastor though. He was an apologist. So I’m not sure where this disconnect comes from.
Faith without works is dead. It’s also not about perfection but direction. Are their fruit of the spirit in your life? Have your appetites changed?
McArthur is flat out wrong that Ravi never quoted Scripture. It’s a compelling observation, but happens to be completely inaccurate.
But it is true that Ravi made philosophical statements more often rather than quote Scripture directly. Furthermore, just quoting Scripture does not mean a person is saved for there has to be evidence in a person of having been born again. Ravi also lied about his credentials so there is a pattern of sinful behaviour .... and I am not talking about perfection, but direction of spiritual travel. Is Ravi saved? Well, I am not God and I don't know if Ravi made a deathbed confession and repented of his sin before God ... that is possible, but not likely.
And don't take my word for it, watch: ua-cam.com/video/FCeY0IKuitU/v-deo.html
It seems that everyone has a bone to pick on notable preachers. This will never end. What is clear is that we are all sinners, and that includes pastors. Take what is good and leave the bad.
I agree.
Jesus said good fruit cannot come from a bad tree.
The greater issue here are Christian celebrities, detached from the authority of the local Church -God‘s kingdom is not about celebrity and pride. It’s quite the opposite.-unfortunately the true heroes of our faith are unseen -❤
I love Pastor Macarthur and Ravi. I was heartbroken to hear about Ravi. But now listening to pastor McArthur talk about him like this. How many times were you on the same stage as him and this never came up? He quoted scripture all the time.
No he did not. You must have never heard him.
@@uncasunga1800 are you joking?! Did you actually just presume to tell me what I didn't hear with my own ears??? Or call me a liar?
@@TheRaginkage why is it so preposterous? Have you ever lied, Have you completely stopped lying since presumed Salvation? Yes, and No. So don't be so offended. Christ was accused of all things evil that He did not even postulate doing nor do. But you were born in Sin, to Sinners, from long line of them, and have done nothing but failed the requirements of Heaven, always being impure.
@@HTSS8 what are you even talking about??? Read the chat again....
@Sam A yeah, this feed could really use some race bating. Thanks.
We have no idea that he didn’t repent before he passed away. That’s Gods Grace and mercy.
He can repent all he wants yet without Christ he’s still lost forever.
@@andrewtanczyk4009 That is right, and as a born again Christian and being guided by the Holy Spirit, God would never let me stay in a sin. Immediately I would feel convicted and the word of God would come to my thoughts. Yes repentance is there for real Christians but it has to be real and we must turn away from that sin,can't continue to walk in the flesh. there is fake repentance, Judas gave back the money and then hanged himself. judgement day is coming.
@@rosemarybetts4467 God also gives us a choice - he does not force us to live in obedience - we have to ultimately make the decision
When ravi got cancer in his last dying moments seems there was no repentance!!! He died 2 months later after having cancer but no mentioned of him having a repentant heart!!! Which is so sad!!! Scripture mentions that in book of Thess that God sends a strong illusion to those who believe a lie as truth and that’s a dangerous and scary thing to fall into and very well seems this is what happen to ravi he believed it unto death
I mean... all he ever did was preach Christ.
Gods grace is greater than our sin. Where Sin abounds grace abounds more.
I’ve been a believer for 25 yrs and i still struggle. I’m a sinner… Ravi was a sinner … this is why we need a savior. He had good and bad fruit just like these men in the stage.
Is their sin less offensive to God?
No, it’s not.
You need a savior just as Ravi did. If he knew Jesus as his savior then he is in Heaven.
Luke 18:9-14
He also told this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and treated others with contempt: “Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee, standing by himself, prayed thus: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I get.’ But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, a sinner!’
This is the exact verse that came to my mind about this.
Amen.
The whole point is that, based on the evidence, Ravi was not repentant at all. According to one woman's testimony, he had sex with her and then had her pray with him to God, thanking for the opportunity to do that. Would you say that someone like this had an ounce of conviction in their soul? Now, I'm not saying that this woman should just be believed, since many women make up lies about sexual abuse especially with famous people, no matter how unpopular it is to say that. But if this woman's testimony is in fact true, then no part of me personally can say that Ravi was saved.
And that should be the reflexive response of every believer who witnesses the ravages of sin in others; God be merciful to me, a sinner.
@@cmk5724 even the thief on the cross repented. We don't know what God did with his heart right before he passed. We do know how deceitful sin and the heart are. My biggest take away from this is not to hypothesize whether or not someone who already passed is in hell but to draw near to God's Spirit in fear and soberness knowing how perverse my own heart is.
I agree with almost everything said in this video EXCEPT for 2 things:
1. We don’t know after stricken with cancer, during the last couple of month’s whether RZ made it right with God or not. How do we know what happened between God and Ravi? Who are we to judge?
2. Pastor JM mentioning that RZ never quoted scriptures. I have heard RZ live twice and both times he referred to scriptures. Moreover, RZ was an apologist not a pastor or preacher. So naturally his talks were different to pastors and preachers.
Both are excellent points...and I immediately disagreed with Pastor JM’s comment also. I’ve watched many RZ sermons and lectures and he often quoted Scripture. I pray God’s grace and forgiveness intervened in RZ last hours!
🙏🏻😢
Thanks@@ryanjamesc9996 - I understood what defending the faith is and what apologetics is only because of RZ. Even today my palm is warm with the hand shake he gave me. I am hurt and sad with all the stories and actions of RZ. However, condemnation is the job of the Holy. And only God is Holy. Also, I know God is using RZ’s actions to point me to my own sins - which I never learnt by reading the stories of David, Solomon and others from the Bible. I just look up and smile at Jesus for all that He is doing to protect me from falling further by giving us modern day examples. I cannot thank the Lord enough.
@Laoshi J - superb points. Thanks a lot. Stay Blessed.
@@pebblesintheshoe4438 thank you for that ,my dear
As a christian I have been given every right to judge this matter - every right. Do any of the Apostles, our leaders in the bible, show this kind of sin? NO! I have every right to judge buddy
If Ravi was quickened by God's Spirit, he certainly is a member of the family of God. Conflating the new birth and salvation is the root of confusion. An individual is completely passive in regards to adoption, the willingness to follow Christ after hearing the gospel varies by degree in each believers life.
That's why "few be that find it", the rest will destroy their lives in this present evil age at their own hand. That also varies by degree.
It is not for man to judge what is in the heart and the mind as a man dies. We shall know when we are called from the earth to be with our Saviour. That is sufficient for me! 🇨🇦🙏🏻🙏🏾🙏🏻❤️✝️☝🏻
The Gospel says “you will know them by their works” and it also says “the sheep hear the voice of the shepherd but not that of a stranger”
You can indeed know when someone is not saved. God calls us to use judgement and discernment.
I totally agree.
That is a lie... No man cannot the very content of a person's heart
@@mikeb.9743 Ironically, John Macarthur is in the same exact boat as Ravi. It is a well known fact that John Macarthur is a millionaire who has multiple homes and a vast array of material possessions. Jesus was clear that it's easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Jesus tells His true disciples..."So then, none of you can be My disciple who does not give up all his own possessions." Therefore, according to scripture, Macarthur is not a disciple of Jesus.
@@sandersthornburgh127 Talk about scripture twisting...
I'm hearing some leaders sharing things about Ravi that bothered them about Ravi's preaching - both John M here and John Piper - did they ever speak to Ravi personally about their concerns? If John was bothered all this time about Ravi's lack of Bible reference, then did he ever challenge him about it? If not, then why not?
No need. God did. This is why we are speaking of so loudly today about it. This is a ONE ON ONE example of God doing it!
Because you need to stay in your lane. It’s not JMac s job to police preachers. Your point is invalid.
Because they are a part of the highest class of Christian social strata. They are elites and they must get along because they occupy those positions. Frankly, because they’re elites and they are busy and they probably don’t really know each other that well. The truth is probably no one knows them that well sadly.
John Mcarthur did have a conversation with Ravi about using the scripture alone and nothing else. All the stories(Lenin Academy, Meeting Hamas leader) Ravi has shared is probably far from the truth.
Yes true. If they has issues,they should've raised it when he was there. It's easy to say I've thought this and that when everything is over and he's not here anymore even, then what's the use. Heaven is full of surprises. Good to be exposed here on earth rather than being a polished disciple who just points out mistakes of others and show themselves right in the doctrine and holy before the eyes of people and are so proud to always talk about others sins and do debates on controversial mysteries of the Bible. If we look at ourselves, I'm surely we will leave Ravi alone
If JMacs reasoning is correct on Ravi, it is also true on Lawson according to his theology. Let’s keep the same energy on both sides. Be real smh 🤦♂️
Mathew 5:28-But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
1 Peter 5:8-Be alert and of sober mind. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour.
Galatians 5:16-But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.
***It's good for a preacher of Gospel to go with his wife where ever he goes. He shouldn't go alone.
or at least with another brother who is also in the faith, to help each other with accountability
Satan isn't attacking anyone. He was bound at the cross by Christ when Jesus "bruised his head" as foretold in the garden, and described in Rev 20. You are using the idea that Satan is more powerful than you and the spirit in you, and that is why you live a life of compromise and sin. You blame all your failures on the devil.
Jesus is the saviour of all mankind. He is supreme. Satan will never be able to stand in his presence. He will flee away when the spirit of God is in us. How do we know if a person is filled with spirit of God or evil spirit? - 'It's only by looking at the fruit or deeds of the person, we get to know the spirit in him/her.' Study the character Judas Iscariot. He was with Jesus but the desire of his heart allowed the evil to enter him.
Genesis 4:7If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must rule over it."
Matthew 26:41, where Jesus tells his disciples: “Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.”
Mathew 12: 43- 45
43:“When an impure spirit comes out of a person, it goes through arid places seeking rest and does not find it. 44: Then it says, ‘I will return to the house I left.’ When it arrives, it finds the house unoccupied, swept clean and put in order. 45: Then it goes and takes with it seven other spirits more wicked than itself, and they go in and live there. And the final condition of that person is worse than the first.That is how it will be with this wicked generation.”
Amen , it’s not wise to go alone I’m a single man not married and I don’t even allow a woman by her self to come into my home I must protect my witness of God and also flee from fornication no compromising situations
He who is without sin let him cast the first stone.
Way to misuse scripture! Satan is proud!
You are weaponizing forgiveness. Ravi was a pathological liar and a sexual predator who left so many victims in his wake and you Daryl want us to just move on.... Wake up dude. We need to discuss this.. Wake up dude.
@@chriscravens8318 Scripture is not being misused here my friend . It is a direct and correct quotation and given in context , especially in this case . I suggest you read your New Testament . You ought to be praying for Ravi's soul and for God's mercy on him . What Ravi did was shocking and evil and it left many many people heartbroken . Unless you yourself are perfect please refrain from the condemnation of any of God's children who have fallen and gotten themselves utterly lost . Apart from that , God bless you and have a good day .
I agree with you completely . Thank you for reminding us here of that truth . God bless you .
@@misterjones78 What's to discuss Mister Jones ? How what Ravi did could never happen to a real Christian ? or should we discuss where Ravi is going .. Heaven or hell ?
If anyone can answer those questions with complete conviction and certainty, do let me know who they are !
This is where Protestant doctrines break down. You preach saved by grace and faith alone until it’s not not convenient. From all I have heard out of the Protestant reformation, works (good or bad) have nothing to do with Salvation. Please correct me if I have misunderstood a main tenant of the Protestant faith.
Pray, pray, pray whole heartedly like Daniel! Read your Bible everyday!
I believe it is impossible for a true Christian not to repent and open up in his / her deathbed. If someone maintains innocence to the very end that is not Christian character
Exactly. And a true man of God who was in on-going, continual sin would exhibit profound spiritual pain. He wouldn’t be able to hide it. Zacharias showed no such thing.
Hes in hell
@@bellalugosi5853 true
@@bellalugosi5853 y’all act like y’all know . Leave it to God and be quiet
@@jamal_77646 We’re making educated guesses based on the facts. We don’t need your permission.
The question is... will he say the same thing about his friend steve lawson?
No he would not
I am so disappointed to hear that Ravi is guilty of such things. The Bible tells us all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, but it also says "should we keep sinning that grace may abound? Certainly not!"
We can only hope Ravi repented of his sins before he passed.
It sounds like from most people that have taken in consideration of Ravi's life style, that all sin is ok. Everyone seems to think all sin is ok and forgiven. Never heard a word about judgement or hell, or the power given to BORN AGAIN CHRISTIAN THAT DOES HAVE POWER TO TURN FROM THEIR SINFUL NATURES. What good is the power of the Holy Spirit if it isn't real enough or strong enough to over come the Devils power to control us. Sad all the people that think Ravi was just a poor sinner that couldn't help himself and we should over look his weakness. SAD.
We have no knowledge that these accusations are true.
@@rosemarybetts4467 arrogance on your part. "Judge not ...".
@@rosemarybetts4467 if you confess me before men I will confess you before my father in heaven end of story
Pray that God has mercy on Ravi’s soul, just as He has had on ours. It’s extremely upsetting and disappointing, but at the end of the day, Christ will be King and His Will will be done!
Is that scripture I have never heard of praying for the Dead but only for the ones who are alive and struggling with sin
@@JUANLOPEZ-dl6ux What is theologically problematic about praying for the hope of salvation for someone that has passed?
That’s a catholic statement
@@emberducati9237 it shows your ignorance and possibility of remaining in a depraved state.
@@emberducati9237 Because once someone is dead, they are judged, they cannot repent as an unbeliever in death.
Joy & others who would be kind enough to read this...I listened to Ravi FOR YEARS ...I agree, he did quote scripture...and saying because he was traveling a lot and did not live in community/church with other believers, because other believers support you & make you strong...is like saying Billy Graham who traveled the world was "wrong" as well... or looking at Paul the Apostle or any of them...is also "wrong" the way they lived their lives, "First Corinthians" (especially chapter 5) shows us that an entire church can get wrapped up in & even coddle & condone another's sin... Revelations shows us Jesus pointing out the sins in each "congregation", even Philadelphia, "because they left their first love"... and Jesus/Father God allowed John to be isolated & banished to the island of Patmos where he received some of the greatest revelations of his life. Moses, 40 years on the backside of the desert before being used...Joseph a slave... I could go on... THE LEADERS of the CHURCH MUST STOP CONDEMNING each other...and JUDGING... because we ALL will stand before the judgement seat of Christ one day...and give accounts for EVERY "idle word"... Each of us will "stand" or fall before OUR MASTER...
These kinds of post, PUSH those who do NOT KNOW JESUS away from Him...NO ONE...I say NO ONE.. but Jesus knows what was in the heart of Mr. Zacharias...
These are perfect opportunities to give "altar calls"... explaining the power of sin in one's life... GOD called David a man after His own heart, David committed adultery & murdered & "covered up" these sins for over a year (had many wives & concubines - which totally violated 'for this reason a man shall leave...cleave to his wife...and the two shall become one flesh); but ... Jesus Christ Himself came out of his lineage... what lesson I get from that & other Biblical accounts of life is this...WE HAVE AN EXTREMELY MERCIFUL GOD...maybe The Lord allowed Ravi to catch cancer so he would "come home"...and the sin would cease...and be revealed... and people WOULD LOOK TO THE LORD...and NOT TO LEADERS OF A CHURCH...realizing we all fit into the category of...there is NO ONE RIGHTEOUS...NO NOT ONE...and all of OUR "RIGHTEOUSNESS" is as filthy rags...
There seems to be waves of PRIDE on that stage...and the enemy has twisted God's word coming from these "seasoned" men of God (as satan tried to even do with Jesus)...& sadly...they are to blind to see it...I will continue to pray for John MacArthur has I have for many years...but it's sad to see things such as this...its by GRACE we are saved, by FAITH...NOT by our own WORKS, even the yes we spoke... accepting Jesus, IS A GIFT...Blood was the high cost...we need not shame the Lord with our displays of pointing fingers...but show His grace by telling others...ANY ONE CAN FALL...no matter who they are... who knows how many times Ravi may have repented...or even if he did...that's between he & the Lord... but the shame at the judgement seat & the loss of reward hearing "well done"... that would be the pain...imagine GODS PAIN watching Ravi sin...(but we must remember the Prodigal); he was NEVER NOT A SON...even in his pigpen life style...Ravi got caught in the pigpen...hurting many & breaking The LORDS HEART...Let's love OUR FATHER Church, Jesus said, we would show our love to Him, by obeying Him, let's invest our lives in prayer & studying to show ourselves 'approved"...working out our OWN salvation with fear & trembling! My heart goes out to all who read this...to those who do not know Jesus...He tells us to LOOK TO HIM & be saved ...not to any man... for ALL...ALL....ALL...have sinned & come short of the glory of GOD...even those in this video!!
"NO ONE...I say NO ONE.. but Jesus knows what was in the heart of Mr. Zacharias..." Amen to this!
I'm not defending the actions of Ravi, but John is wrong when he says Ravi never quoted scripture. There are multiple examples of Ravi doing exactly that in videos on UA-cam. I had a devotion book by Ravi, where every reading was based on a series of verses. I think all of this is more complex than the responses I'm hearing from Christian leaders.
Hey,Satan knew the scriptures and quoted the word. It didn't change who he really was. His actions showed who he was. We are warned ,BE SURE YOUR SINS WILL FIND YOU OUT. Also there comes a time in life when your heart can become so harden until you can't and won't repent.
@@rosemarybetts4467 Not sure how that relates to the point I was making. I'm simply pointing out that John MacArthur's claim that Ravi didn't quote scripture is false, and easy to prove as being false.
Well gentlemen we are all weak so let us get off our high horses and thank God we have been saved and protected by His Grace and not talk too much about Ravi or any fallen man of God in a judgemental way, Ravi's family must be going through hell. And you guys talk as though you don't sin in your thoughts, words, and deeds.
It’s not really a high horse to quote and explain scripture.
The word of God say’s we will know them by their fruit. His fruit was demonic not given by Holy Spirit. We are warned about such leaders / preachers. He will be judged by the word of God, repentance means you confess your sin to God and you quit practicing it. This is real and the promise to true born again Christians. Confess, repent, and quit doing it.
Ravi did this to his family with the help of Satan. Remember Satan is here to kill , steal, and destroy our lives and all that allow Satan to enter in and control us this is exactly what he did to Ravi and his family .
@Kenny Gomez As the Bible says “Take heed lest YE fall!”
I have issue with discussing someone who is not there to defend himself. McArthur openly admits he met him several times and was struck by how he "never quoted scripture." So why didn't he approach him then, and say, hey man. Everything ok in your life? I have Godly concern. McArthur also believes God picks and chooses who will be saved, so it's no surprise he's being judgmental now....
The bible say's God already knew who would be saved from the foundation of the world.Jesus died for the whole world, but not all will be saved. example of predestination John the baptist was filled with Holy Spirit while he was still in Elizabeths womb. So,was he the elect ?
Ravi quoted the Scriptures many many times . Maybe these hypocrites should listen more closely
Don’t say anything bad about Ted Bundy then since he abused and killed many women and is dead.
Yeah, I'm with you.
Ultimately, Even the judge will come under judgement.
Exactly! God has given me the right through inheritance to judge and test the spirits. If I don’t use this inherited gift then I would be that deceived follow of Ravi and found guilty - never cared for the man after testing him!
John McCarthur's net worth is supposedly around $15 million.
"It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God." -Jesus
"If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor" -Jesus
Maybe he should question his own salvation before questioning everyone else's
The point is, only the blood of Christ can save us, because none of us are perfect, even believers
The poor man died and no one confronted him about his behavior when he was alive I dont understand that only God knows the heart of a person
It’s so easy to judge or come to any conclusion is t it. I say we best examine ourselves and leave the judgement to the Lord. If He can use a donkey certainly any of us as well.
This needs way more likes. "Is Ravi in Hell?" What the "Hell" kind of question is that? Galatians 6:1 for me. God searches and knows the heart. That's not our job.
Yes, thank God, that we are not the ones to judge. With God being the Ultimate Judge, the score stands settled. All this slandering needs to stop.
If Ravi's salvation depends on what he did or did not do - then Jesus died in vein. For all have fallen short of the Glory of God. It's belief in the finish work of the Cross that salvation is freely given to a believer. So you say, Ravi was a sinner - as we all are; that is, unless you are claiming being without sin from your highly-paid-pulpit-professional careers.
Amen, may those who are under law have righteousness which exceeds that of Pharisees.
@Kerusso Apologetics What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, has found? For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.” Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due. But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness, just as David also speaks of the blessing on the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works: “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds have been forgiven, and whose sins have been covered. Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord will not take into account” (Romans 4:1-8).
- Copied from ref. www.onepassionministries.org/transcripts/2017/10/19/romans-41-3
So, I guess Judas that hanged himself is ok because Jesus died for his sins too. I don't think so. That is why there is a place called hell.
@@rosemarybetts4467 Romans10:6-7
6But the righteousness that is by faith says: “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’b (that is, to bring Christ down) 7or, ‘Who will descend into the Abyss?’c (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).”
No Ravi's destiny depends on what was controlling his life, Flesh and blood will not inherit the kingdom of God. Ravi was walking in the flesh. The flesh represents the world. We are warned about the lust of the flesh and when we RECEIVE the promise of the Holy Spirit that in powers us to walk in newness of life. He was still living in immorality even though he claimed to have been delivered. We will know them by their fruit.
We are ALL sinners! Ravi is no different, we will sin to the day we die. If Ravi is guilt of all this stuff (big If) it still doesn't mean he is not saved. Being saved does not make you completely stop sinning. But, being marked with the seal of the holy sprit will HELP you fight fleshly desires! You will still occasionally sin but, the hope is that as you grow and mature in the Sprit you will do less Sin as you become more wise in your walk with Christ. I do believe Ravi IS SAVED, I just think he allowed some of his fleshly desires to win occasionally. I would have to believe (Based on personal experience) that Ravi would have struggled with his issues if he were really doing them( you can struggle with an issue and still commit the offence, it takes time to completely stop doing something, the key is was he struggling with it, we DONT KNOW). A person that is doing wrong KNOWS he is doing wrong but, the sign of a repentant heart is that guilt you feel after doing the wrong thing and not wanting to continue doing those wrongs. How many times have you messed up doing the SAME BAD thing over and over again EVEN AFTER YOU WERE SAVED? We all do so ill leave off with this, as scripture states in John 8:7, "So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone.....". We are ALL GUILTY so let us not cast stones ourselves. RIP RAVI!!!
Jesus said you know a tree by the fruit it bears.
Who are you referring to?
@@ed0078 This principle applies to everyone.
I see most of the comments are from confused people... The question was primarily if Ravi was a Christian when he was practising these things...
The other guy explicitly says we don't know if he repented at the end, but his lifestyle was not Christian.
That said, Jmac did take it too far by asking if he was in hell... That's not for us to have an opinion on.
I agree with you only God knows....remember the thief on the cross.
It's not a bad idea to imagine people in hell. It's a real place that we should not want people to end up in... In the Bible we are given the image of the rich man in hell with Lazarus in Abraham's bosom. Grasping the reality of hell, and imagining people we love in that place--out of God's presence--may help us adjust our perspective to see this earthly life for the vapor we're told it is. Jesus creates a scenario of hell at which place people (goats) will say "Lord, Lord, didn't I do these things for you?" and it's best that we take that scenario and apply it to the picture of a wide gate which many go through, quite possibly the people sitting next to us in the pew, or at our dining room table. We need to make the most of every opportunity for the days are evil... imagining the possibility of recognizably faces in hell may help develop within us an urgency to demonstrate and draw people to Christ and a less intense pleasure or contentment in video games, TV series, social media, and these videos we comment on here.
Ravi Zacharias. What a textbook example of someone having "head knowledge" of the truth without true repentance and faith. A person who has tasted the heavenly gift and shared in the (things of) the Holy Spirit and tasted the goodness of the Word of God...(Heb 6:4-6) but never gone past tasting into personal trust and receiving.
I remember hearing somewhere of someone who was on a trip to the Holy Land, and their guide was telling a lot of truths from the Gospels and he led them. The tourist took it for granted that the guide was a Christian, but when he talked to him afterwards, found that he was Muslim. The guide knew how to describe facts, but did not believe those facts.
Head knowledge does not save. Jesus Christ saves through repenting faith that fully receives rather than just tasting.
I’m so glad MacArthur and Sproul are not going to judge me, but God is
MacArthur is a god lol😂😂😂😂
He also clearly attacked the people protesting the nazis in Charlottesville but wouldn't denounce the nazis, alt right, and white nationalists who murdered Heather Hyer.
So are you upset because of the judging of a fellow Christian (self professing) or are you just okay with what RZ did?
If God judges us we are doomed. JESUS is the reason we are saved. HIS righteousness covers Us.
@@michaellopezty23 yeah we as believers will still stand at the judgment seat of Christ to be judged for our righteousness
By the way he did quote the Bible, he did that many times so I don't know what this man is talking about saying that he never quoted scripture.
Yeah I've heard Ravi quote scriptures in numerous occasions too. You're right.
He said he spent time with him at events and never heard him quote scripture, not that in his career he didn't, however I personally only have watched a few of his sermons and I quit watching him because I didn't hear him preaching scripture either.
Quoting the word is easy, the hard part is keeping it. And that is possible by the power of Almighty God . God would never tell us to keep his commandments and then no give us the way to do it. Jesus said I am the way and the truth and the life .
The Devil knows scripture and quotes it. Ask Eve?
To be honest I only heard him quoting other books or people, but not so much the bible
Who knows how much hypocrisy exists in religious or political circles, where words are the tools of the trade. And you don't get rid of hypocrisy by adding more words.
Matt. 7:21-23 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
very fitting in reference to these modern day Pharisees..., He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. Where is the greatest in all of these is "Love"? Where? Change this UA-cam Channel to "Let's Judge Others" Channel
@@robbiesemu821 i don't think you understand what the pharisees were doing. I'm sorry you need to read the scriptures ask the Lord for the understanding. These men here don't have any power over Ravi nor do the have authority to extricate him from the synagogue or the temple. We need to hear it so that we can all learn from it. This is not gossip because his own ministry investigators published the results. I'm quite sure that wasn't the only topic or questions at this session. Please think people.
@@john318john please educate me...
That is exactly what God told us , and as a Christian I judge myself daily so that I stay in the presence of Jesus expecting Him to cleanse me and hear my prayers.
Yes, Waikiki you are right. the reason everyone wants to believe that Ravi was ok in his sin,and that is the same kind of church sermons we are hearing today.candy coated, no problem everyone is a sinner and all will be forgiven and all go to heaven. No judgement, just forgiveness and happy days ahead. NOT TRUE, OUR WORLD AND MOST OF OUR SPIRITUAL LEADERS ARE CONTROLLED NOT BY THE WORD OF GOD, BUT BY THE POWER OF MONEY AND POWER TO CONTROL POOR UN CONVERTED PEOPLE THAT DON'T KNOW THAT THE POWER OF GOD DOES DELIVER US FROM COMMITING SIN HERE AND NOW. GOD DID MAKE A PROVISION FOR TRUE BELIEVERS THAT MAY OCCASIONALLY SIN ,JESUS IS OUR ADVOCATE AND INTERCEEDS FOR US. BUT THE ONLY PEOPLE GIVEN THIS PRIVILEGE ARE TRUE BORN AGAIN CHRISTIANS. NOT THOSE LIVING IN THE WORLD.
I am a Sinner saved solely by the work done through Christ. I don't how I would get to a point of Self-Righteousness to imply someone is burning in Hell because of their Sins.
You said it. As we judge, so we will be. Johnny Mac better be sure he is without sin, sitting on a stage questioning essentially God's Grace, Christ's atonement, and another man's heart, whether properly repented to his personal LORD or not. Wow.
He is not saying he is without sin. But Ravi's fruit at the core of his life was rotten. Sanctification works to transform you to be Christ like. It does not do the opposite. And Ravi loved sin more than Christ and that is 100% true.
@@aHavenForTheLost We all do. You and I. You just cannot admit it.
@@igloozoo3771 When did I say I don’t sin? We all sin everyday whether we know it or not. And we all act self righteous at times. I catch myself doing it, but then I ask God to help me in that area and all the areas I need help in. But to continuing to willfully sin and to make your whole day built around your secret sin and to lie and to cover that sin is not what someone who is born again would do. It’s just not, I am sorry. Gifts are given to us without repentance. Ravi had a gift and sadly he never turned to Christ and repented. True believers are at war with sin and unbelievers are okay with sinning. You will know them by their fruit.
It's called practical Calvinism
Let God be God. Please.
There is never any way that "any" man knows, nor ever will, the heart of another but Almighty God...beware of false prophets...
Then what right do you have to call another a false prophet if truly only God knows?
@@ed0078 who, what and when did I call anyone a false prophet?...I quoted Matthew 7:15... Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravening wolves.
There seems to be something unfair saying something is a “dead giveaway” of a person not being a Christian AFTER they died. Did MacArthur ever confront or talk about Ravi’s salvation when he was a alive?
The scandal only came out and verified after Ravi's death though.
@@myjunedayya Macarthur’s reference of the “dead giveaway” wasn’t about the investigation or any details revealed after his death.
Then was it unfair of Jesus to give the scanario of Lazarus in heaven and, across the chasm, the rich man in hell?
@@jennyk.2690 I think you missed the upshot of my point.
@@WakeRunSleep yes, I see that now; I was focused on what those who are still living on this "old earth" can learn from considering the reality of people dying and going to hell, whereas your focus is on: where was the speaking Truth in love to Ravi while he was still among us? (which is actually what I was considering to be the valuable reason for discussing people going to hell after death: to remind us of what we should be doing for each other, as commissioned by Jesus, while we are able. So sorry, shilohwillcome! Thanks for drawing my attention back.)
For nothing is concealed that will not become evident, nor anything hidden that will not be known and come to light. Luke 8:17
We have all fallen short of the Glory of God. Let he who has not sinned cast the first stone. If these accusations are true then shame on Ravi and if they are false may the LORD forgive each one of us. Show me a blameless Man on this Earth I'd like to meet them.
His ministry investigated the accusations and they found it credible.
@@john318john credible based on a report without providing evidence to back up it's findings? That is not credible.
@@robbiesemu821 They have his phones with pictures, texts and emails. Give up your idol.
@@bellalugosi5853 do not make assumptions that make you out to be an ass Bella...
@@robbiesemu821 What assumptions am I making? Hey, if you want to bury your head in the sand and hold up your idol, you go right ahead. Your feelings don’t trump facts. If standing for truth makes me an ass, so be it. I’m fine with that.
He who is without sin cast the first stone
Giving the word of God is not casting a stone.
Executing without the God given authority is.
The scriptures say repent, trust in Christ, and sin no more.
Ravi did quote the scripture. He knew it very well. It was amazing how well he knew the scripture without looking it up. We are not the judge of anyone. Only God knows a man’s heart 🙏
Wwwwwwait a minute! (Screeching tire sound) This man Zacharias owned a string of massage parlors for years??!! And that didn't give anyone a clue that something might be a (just a little?) off???
Exactly. I am 100% confident that his ministry and family knew. Cmon.
What is wrong with owning massage parlours? They are health centres where people go to improve their health.
only the lord knows where Ravi is, i believe he had a false gospel anyway, its not yr performance, because we have to b perfect to go to heaven, we need christs righteousness.
@@rinaboffa4512 exactly amen ! This is what gets me with so many self professed Christians is none of them want to admit the false counterfeit Christianity that’s leading many astray with false idol worship side step the commandments of God to hold to traditions of men!!!! It’s like they are scared to admit and expose it !!! I only saw one man who is Christian pastor or is pretty known there was a video he did on exposing false Christianity Paul washer but that video I can’t find anymore on UA-cam hmmm I wonder why
He also had a YOGI practice within the parlor in Georgia "Eden's Touch"
Keepin in it Biblical 😂
Enough already .... the man is dead. Look to your own salvation before you criticise another's.
yep!
We learn from the Bible looking back at dead people and dead saints. Only a naive person refuses to learn from history
*”For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? But them that are without God judgeth.”* (1 Corinthians 5:12-13). Judging sin is one of the abilities of the Spirit enabling believers to judge among themselves and that of others (see 1 Corinthians 2:15).
The word tells us to correct our fellow brethren, not judge them when they’re dead.
Exactly. It’s all well and good to say well in hindsight I knew he was a “dodgy” because he “never quoted the scriptures” even though he frequently did is only a mistake made by people not wanting to associate with those kinds of “sinners”.
I agree though I don't think this scenario is presented to us in scripture. There is precedent for judging one another "Who am I to judge those outside of the church? Are we not to judge those inside" but I do not hear judgement in these men's voices, I hear sorrow.
I don't think it is out of the realm of possibility that Ravi actually was saved. But at the same time I think a grave sorrow can be had at this time of loss.
@@veggiet2009 Romans 10:6-7
6But the righteousness that is by faith says: “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’b (that is, to bring Christ down) 7or, ‘Who will descend into the Abyss?’c (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).”
Ravi did quote scripture..check his videos
He never exposited from scripture, he may have thrown in a random quote once in a blue moon. His sermons were mostly story-telling and philosophical musings.
What an Amazing Meeting of God fearing Men!!! They werent judging the dead pastor, as if they were sinless. They were simply stating certain facts about what it means to be a true and solid christian who can be assumed to be Saved, and going to heaven... Nothing wrong with these means arguments about the deceased!!! Just honest comments comparing the difference between a trusted believer, and the life style of the man in question...
None of those pastors are perfect. But the Bible says we christians are to judge those within the church. In this case, those pastors were simply pointing out what the Bible says about Godly lifestyles that can be trusted as genuine, as opposed to a questionable lifestyle ..
They werent judging wrongly as if they are petfect.. before being angry with those men on stage, consider none of us are perfect. But we still need to address the behavior of our fellow brothers and sisters in church
Absolutely breaks my heart. I used to love listening to Ravi years ago😭
You can still listen to him. His teachings have been incredibly helpful to me. Don’t focus on the man, focus on the Truth that he taught.
@@Nameless-pt6oj if any truth came out of him that’s evidence that God still speaks though donkeys
He who confesses me before men I will confess before my father in heaven period!
He may have been set up ... Listen to his own wife and sons side of the story ... there is something fishy to the whole story. They still have shown 0 visual evidence of Ravi acting like that. What should be worrying is if Ravi is innocent and McArthur is actually misrepresenting 1 of Gods true children?
@@lluuiiss3344 that was a thought of mine, too. I decided to not investigate, because I don't really want to know. There are enough things going on that I CAN control, I don't need this issue distracting me.
First off, I’m a huge Ravi fan, and I’m strongly against the concept of questioning someone’s salvation due to particular flaws or bad decisions.
But I totally understand what these guys are saying.
Ravi wasn’t simply making “bad decisions” and hiding affairs.
He was systematically preying on women for years and forcing them to have sex with him.
It wasn’t that he struggled with sin, he was entirely delighting himself in an endless ocean of sin. For years and years he was manipulating countless women and sexually assaulting them without any evidence of hesitation.
As much as I hate to say it, I think it’s completely reasonable to question if he was truly born-again. He may have just been a really really really great speaker of religion and philosophy.
Exactly. Based on this I would say he’s in hell.
1 Corinthians 6:9-11
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.
Yes I'm conflicted also. Is it just approaching it wrong and they should... Never mind. Yes now that I've thought about it typing this comment they were wrong in questioning his salvation. What is salvation? It's not even noteworthy to mention here. Salvation is in Christ Jesus. They were wrong, they should have presented it as flat out was Ravi a Christian or was he walking in Christ. They approached this wholly wrong. His salvation is not for us to question. Truly it isn't. Only God knows the hearts of men. His relationship with Christ and struggles are his own and private. His actions are however and should be pointed out, and if he was a Christian. What did he preach, was it biblical? Did his actions in the ministry and direction he took it follow what the bible called for? That is a conversation to be had. I never got into his teachings or know much about his ministry beyond some youtube videos. I do think it most importantly was telling at the end when he said he never heard Ravi teach to quote the bible. That is kinda a big one for me to hear if I'm going to invest in someones teachings... That tells me Jesus was not the focus, all truth comes from him, the truth in scripture overflows, there is no reason it shouldn't have been constantly quoted and cross referenced to establish moral and ethical arguments. There are so many practical historical examples in scripture and Holy Spirit inspired revelation. That would make me question if such person was a Christian more than any misconduct ever would.
Read 1 John. Then read it again.
Conflating the quickening moment of new birth with the salvation experience is the root of this confusion.
From personal experience with the Lord, and some of you can attest to this, that if you knowingly sin, the Holy Spirit will beat your behind real good with conviction! But if you don't have His indwelling presence, a person will continue in sin without a sense of conviction. May I and those who truly love the Lord never experience an unrepentant heart.
Go into all the world....
Why didn’t these men go and minister to him? Rather than sit in judgement. How is that loving? Do you really care for souls if you sit there gossiping and questioning someone dead, and who was struggling with a grip of sin! Aren’t they the church who is supposed to support and hold accountable by loving rebuke and encouragement to trim from sin. So that he may repair his relationship with God? This is why the world disregards Christianity and calls it false. This is shameful.
I started to rebut your comment around the 5 min mark when I read it.. as I typed I heard John MacArthurs last comment about Ravi not quoting scripture and that was a dead giveaway.. he certainly had a responsibility to not only address his concerns with Ravi for Ravis sake, but for the millions of people who would be deeply affected by hearing how horrible a person he truly was when they respected him as a great Christian apologist.. I’m not sure about the rest of the men, but Johnny Mac is not unlike the well disciplined brother in the story of the prodigal.. or a Pharisee..he is also in a similar “untouchable” position like Ravi was.. when will we learn??
God uses what was meant for evil for good. There are lessons that we may glean from Ravi's life that don't include making final judgment.
He would refuse any hellp.
Most didnt know his hidden sins
@@ma9081-l4y apologists are over rated
The audacity to call Ravi’s salvation into question, no matter his level of public or private failure, is one of the most arrogant and self-righteous platforms I have ever heard. Good thing Jesus is mighty to save because we ALL depend on it. “Oh, you great saints, if you have outgrown the need of a sinner’s trust in the Lord Jesus, you have outgrown your sins, but you have also outgrown your grace, and your saintship has ruined you!” Spurgeon.
Actually there is more self-righteousness in your statement than anything these men said about Ravi. Nice try tho..
These men absolutely have a right to discuss this publicly.
I get it. I too have a emotional attachment to Ravi. I've learned SO much from him, he's a hero of mine. But the facts are out and we have to obey God rather than man and speak about these complex and sad issues so that we don't allow ourselves, nor, our brothers and sisters to go astray.