I feel like Carthage needs Numidia cav to have melee stats as good as germanic riders and such. That would make me overall pretty happy with where Carthage is at as a faction.
Or give them the stuff Masaesyli has access to. Unless it has been updated the Mercenary Numidian stuff Carthage gets in multiplayer has normal horse because it's from the launch of the game. All the shock and javelin cavalry Masaesyli have access to has a special Numidian horse that while lower on mass, is way faster with better turning and acceleration but with the same health. While I would like Numidians to be better in melee (and have a personal mod that does just such a thing) pretty sure with Carthage's roster that faster cavalry would never be caught.
Simple, I see Rome 2 Battles, I leave a like. I have really been enjoying the throwback content Heir, but don't feel you have to cater to me just keep churning out what you like. Also, tons of props to the Carthagian player, as that flank overload from the Iceni made a mess of the battlefield, he did an excellent job splitting gaps and not letting his mobility advantage go to waste. It was a great use of cavalry and probably won him the battle!
Hey guys, I am Hunter, the Carthage player. I would like to talk about the rules of the battle: 7 melee and 4same for Carthage and 6 melee for Iceni. I take two pikes to tie down enemy’s right flank, to make sure that I can crash his left flank with superior force. And welcome to subscribe my channel, you can watch my living records there.
I got back into your channel after you started posting the rome 2 replay content. I feel like you have a good niche here, I can't tell you exactly what it is about this content that I like, but it just works.
Really good maneuver from Carthage player, using cheap hoplites to screen and tank the charge then out flank the enemy inf with his reserve. Nice tactics from both players!
from my experience, Carthage is better with 1 more scrutarii and 1 more Lybian infantries instead of 2 pikemen. As for Iceni, I would remove all the spear bands and chosen spear, and there will be enough money for 1 more chosen sword band, 3 sword band with 1 rank each and 2 levy freemen. You don't need mid and high tier spear units in this game ever, unless they are thureos spear type units, thorax hoplites, armored desert hoplite, royal spartans and illyrian noble hoplite.
While that's not true for every faction, I pretty much agree. Unless you are a faction with more cost-effective spears, Massallian hoplites and Wodanaz are ones you didn't mention, just bring cheap spears. Especially as Iceni vs Carthage, you have access to MLG freemen and that's all you need against Carthage who are unlikely to bring expensive heavy cavalry as noble cavalry and mercenary Campanians are way overpriced. Around 4 cheap spears with shields and javelins are enough screening and anti-cavalry protection against any faction in this game except maybe Parthia/Armenia, Saba, and the Nomads.
I think most Barbarian infantry outshine Libyan Infantry and thorax swords mostly do to their high charge bonuses so if you can deny the charge and allow those Hellenistic swords a clean engagement they can usually trade pretty well.
@@edwardfontaine7108 I mean you are not wrong but most of the barbarian factions have better screening troops than the Greek and successor factions. The Hellenistic boys have nothing like Celtic Warriors or Hastati so your strategy is hard to do against an equally skilled player (though not impossible). Also, the big 3 sword spam barbarians Arverni, Boii, and Tylis all have mid-tier swords that chop the crap out of Thorax Swords even without a good charge. Chosen Swords, Sword Followers, and Tribal Warriors all beat Thorax Swords and while more expensive it's not a big enough difference to allow you to bring way more troops. Sword Follower (the most expensive of the 3) is 760 vs Thorax sword 710 not a big enough difference for the performance. This is why so many higher ranked matches and tournaments put limits on melee infantry in some way to try and balance this. EDIT: not to ramble on but with no rules my old Boii sword rush build was Oathsworn general 4/4/4 heavy horse, freemen, and Celtic warriors and then 7 sword followers and unless prices have changed that is exactly all your money on large funds. Depending on what you are facing you will change it up to protect from elephants and chariots, but even that said you have so much screening potential and cheap javelins that it is really hard for your opponent to deal with it and then also cut their way through 6 or 7 units of the most cost-effective heavy infantry in the game. Hence why pro players don't let you do this. It's not unbeatable but so much easier to use and use well, than say a good Parthia build.
@@howitzer551 there are 2 hellenistic states that are pretty good at dealing with barbarian, the Egypt and the Seulucid. these 2 factions are often rated above than those 4 big barbarian sword spam (yes galatian as well). Carthage are also often rated higher than those barbarian factions as well.
@@TheBikeOnTheMoon Oh I didn't mean that the Barbs are better just that the simple tactic of screening thorax swords or Libyan Infantry (they might do a little better) so they are protected from the charge of the barbarians isn't enough to make them cost effective against sword spam barbs (also Galatian legionaries are so cool I shouldn't have left them out). To my knowledge Carthage, Egypt and Seleucid builds can counter barb sword spam but it is not through what Edward Fontaine was saying. this is all hypothetical but, if you try to screen your sword line against theirs their screening troops will win and whether you end up taking the charge or not the barb heavy infantry will tend to come out on top unless you actively do something about it. That doesn't mean Carthage, Egypt or the Seleucids are worst factions or that they can't win just that strategy is hard to pull off. Carthage (I have less multiplayer experience with the other two though I like Egypt better) can still bring some pretty varied rush armies that basically rely on Iberian swords to be javelin men and hold something like an Elephant till late game when the precursors are gone and then you have won (if enough of your army is left). I see no reason the Hellenistic factions couldn't do the same but with elephants or maybe even better chariots. I also see Egypt being a good pick with all their cheap infantry (even cheap pikes) being able to hold and soak up missiles allowing your own skirmishers or Ptolemaic Cavalry to end the barbs.
Pikes should be used as back up unit covering flanks and archers or used as 2nd line push to stregnthen the melee infatry. It shouldnt be used as front line at all. Only if you can get let them charge without pikes, even then the enemy will retreat his infatry and keep shooting them down
From my experience with sucessor states/epirus pikes are useful also in offensive role and you can win a battle against good player with army composed mostly with pikes+some swordmens to plug the gaps and support when phalanx is in melee but you should to win skirmish duel first and you need to dominate on flanks to avoid devastating rearcharges, elephants are pretty useful to achieve this when combined with heavy cavalry.
I feel like Carthage needs Numidia cav to have melee stats as good as germanic riders and such. That would make me overall pretty happy with where Carthage is at as a faction.
Or give them the stuff Masaesyli has access to. Unless it has been updated the Mercenary Numidian stuff Carthage gets in multiplayer has normal horse because it's from the launch of the game. All the shock and javelin cavalry Masaesyli have access to has a special Numidian horse that while lower on mass, is way faster with better turning and acceleration but with the same health. While I would like Numidians to be better in melee (and have a personal mod that does just such a thing) pretty sure with Carthage's roster that faster cavalry would never be caught.
Yeah, definetly better melee stats, and maybe max amount from 3 units to 4 units
Simple, I see Rome 2 Battles, I leave a like. I have really been enjoying the throwback content Heir, but don't feel you have to cater to me just keep churning out what you like. Also, tons of props to the Carthagian player, as that flank overload from the Iceni made a mess of the battlefield, he did an excellent job splitting gaps and not letting his mobility advantage go to waste. It was a great use of cavalry and probably won him the battle!
Hey guys, I am Hunter, the Carthage player. I would like to talk about the rules of the battle: 7 melee and 4same for Carthage and 6 melee for Iceni. I take two pikes to tie down enemy’s right flank, to make sure that I can crash his left flank with superior force.
And welcome to subscribe my channel, you can watch my living records there.
Thanks for sharing this info! We'll played battle to both of you.
@@HeirofCarthage thanks for the video.
I love your total war videos historical total war will never get old
I got back into your channel after you started posting the rome 2 replay content. I feel like you have a good niche here, I can't tell you exactly what it is about this content that I like, but it just works.
The heirs of carthage, return!!
That was fast! They already start outmaneuvering each other even from the start, that was fun to watch
Great battle from both players! Good tactics!
Yea I really enjoyed this one.
Really good maneuver from Carthage player, using cheap hoplites to screen and tank the charge then out flank the enemy inf with his reserve. Nice tactics from both players!
Loving the Rome 2 content! I still play quite a bit
Evening Heir, Carthage player was rather skilful, especially with his cav. I thought.
Agreed. He did well!
That was a GG glad you enjoyed!!!
Sick. More rome total war 2 content from you. Been waiting too long. Made my day
Love the rome 2 content heir I love the Warhammer stuff too but really more into the historical stuff!
What a messy but delightful massacre this fine evening
Indeed it was!
Can't underestimate those Carthaginian cav eh? Fun battle
from my experience, Carthage is better with 1 more scrutarii and 1 more Lybian infantries instead of 2 pikemen. As for Iceni, I would remove all the spear bands and chosen spear, and there will be enough money for 1 more chosen sword band, 3 sword band with 1 rank each and 2 levy freemen. You don't need mid and high tier spear units in this game ever, unless they are thureos spear type units, thorax hoplites, armored desert hoplite, royal spartans and illyrian noble hoplite.
While that's not true for every faction, I pretty much agree. Unless you are a faction with more cost-effective spears, Massallian hoplites and Wodanaz are ones you didn't mention, just bring cheap spears. Especially as Iceni vs Carthage, you have access to MLG freemen and that's all you need against Carthage who are unlikely to bring expensive heavy cavalry as noble cavalry and mercenary Campanians are way overpriced. Around 4 cheap spears with shields and javelins are enough screening and anti-cavalry protection against any faction in this game except maybe Parthia/Armenia, Saba, and the Nomads.
I think most Barbarian infantry outshine Libyan Infantry and thorax swords mostly do to their high charge bonuses so if you can deny the charge and allow those Hellenistic swords a clean engagement they can usually trade pretty well.
@@edwardfontaine7108 I mean you are not wrong but most of the barbarian factions have better screening troops than the Greek and successor factions. The Hellenistic boys have nothing like Celtic Warriors or Hastati so your strategy is hard to do against an equally skilled player (though not impossible). Also, the big 3 sword spam barbarians Arverni, Boii, and Tylis all have mid-tier swords that chop the crap out of Thorax Swords even without a good charge. Chosen Swords, Sword Followers, and Tribal Warriors all beat Thorax Swords and while more expensive it's not a big enough difference to allow you to bring way more troops. Sword Follower (the most expensive of the 3) is 760 vs Thorax sword 710 not a big enough difference for the performance. This is why so many higher ranked matches and tournaments put limits on melee infantry in some way to try and balance this.
EDIT: not to ramble on but with no rules my old Boii sword rush build was Oathsworn general 4/4/4 heavy horse, freemen, and Celtic warriors and then 7 sword followers and unless prices have changed that is exactly all your money on large funds. Depending on what you are facing you will change it up to protect from elephants and chariots, but even that said you have so much screening potential and cheap javelins that it is really hard for your opponent to deal with it and then also cut their way through 6 or 7 units of the most cost-effective heavy infantry in the game. Hence why pro players don't let you do this. It's not unbeatable but so much easier to use and use well, than say a good Parthia build.
@@howitzer551 there are 2 hellenistic states that are pretty good at dealing with barbarian, the Egypt and the Seulucid. these 2 factions are often rated above than those 4 big barbarian sword spam (yes galatian as well). Carthage are also often rated higher than those barbarian factions as well.
@@TheBikeOnTheMoon Oh I didn't mean that the Barbs are better just that the simple tactic of screening thorax swords or Libyan Infantry (they might do a little better) so they are protected from the charge of the barbarians isn't enough to make them cost effective against sword spam barbs (also Galatian legionaries are so cool I shouldn't have left them out). To my knowledge Carthage, Egypt and Seleucid builds can counter barb sword spam but it is not through what Edward Fontaine was saying. this is all hypothetical but, if you try to screen your sword line against theirs their screening troops will win and whether you end up taking the charge or not the barb heavy infantry will tend to come out on top unless you actively do something about it. That doesn't mean Carthage, Egypt or the Seleucids are worst factions or that they can't win just that strategy is hard to pull off. Carthage (I have less multiplayer experience with the other two though I like Egypt better) can still bring some pretty varied rush armies that basically rely on Iberian swords to be javelin men and hold something like an Elephant till late game when the precursors are gone and then you have won (if enough of your army is left). I see no reason the Hellenistic factions couldn't do the same but with elephants or maybe even better chariots. I also see Egypt being a good pick with all their cheap infantry (even cheap pikes) being able to hold and soak up missiles allowing your own skirmishers or Ptolemaic Cavalry to end the barbs.
Love to see those kind of cav plays (ofc mentioning the Carthage player)
Throwback Carthage DEI campaign in the works?
Pikes should be used as back up unit covering flanks and archers or used as 2nd line push to stregnthen the melee infatry. It shouldnt be used as front line at all. Only if you can get let them charge without pikes, even then the enemy will retreat his infatry and keep shooting them down
id watch the crap out of a carthage campaing on rome2
Do you cover siege battles?
I like the names, I like them a bunch.
From my experience with sucessor states/epirus pikes are useful also in offensive role and you can win a battle against good player with army composed mostly with pikes+some swordmens to plug the gaps and support when phalanx is in melee but you should to win skirmish duel first and you need to dominate on flanks to avoid devastating rearcharges, elephants are pretty useful to achieve this when combined with heavy cavalry.
Hey Heir if you played another Rome 2 Carthage campaign I can almost guarantee we would watch. I can tell you I 100% would
hey guys im learning how to play with the iceni faction, what are some good tactics to use with them?
I think pike was for chariot but britonic didnt use them
Nice
how do you play on mac? i need help
finaly
1st
Not gonna lie, rome total war 1 looks better. All the colors are the same for rome 2, can't even tell troops apart.