3.9 Perkins 4-cyl Dry Sleeve Engine Rebuild | Massey Ferguson 270 [EP2]
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- Опубліковано 15 гру 2018
- This is part 2 of our Massey Ferguson 270 rebuild series!
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How to rebuild a MF 270 dry sleeve 3.9 Perkins 4-cyl diesel engine.
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This guy makes wanna rebuild an engine every time I see one of his videos, He explains the ups and downs for doing a job like this, he shows how real it is, not like everything is perfect and it slides together and he shares his opinion. He literally is reason I know anything about diesel engines, he is one of the best mechanics (ill never meet) to help teach someone. One video will educate you so much. Thank You Deboss.
Thanks buddy!
bryan allen Honestly, grab a Honda motor from your wrecker, buy a Haynes manual for it, and just tear it apart. You don’t really need any special tools, and if nothing, you’ll probably have fun re-building it, or just taking it apart. Might as well enjoy it, it’s just gonna end up over seas being remelted into something useless. 😁
The way he shows you step by step. I learn by reading, then being shown once. I love this channel.
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@@DEBOSSGARAGE what state are you in? Awesome video!
i am having trouble watching your show, there is no conflict or bullshit deadlines
LOL... No, this is way better....
If we don’t rebuild this engine, WERE GONNA LOSE THE SHOP
@@samthelegoman3990 tavarish in a nutshell
Used to engineer for Baldwin Filters. MOST Coolant filters do indeed contain SCAs, Supplemental Coolant Additives, and release them into the coolant, while filtering out debris and contaminants. There are different formulations, in fact, and make sure your filter has the right additive Package for your coolant, based on how my glycol you use mostly. There are coolant filters that do not have additive packages, if your company uses regular testing to determine the additive levels and maintain them. (So... no truck fleet on earth outside of heavy industry...) The movement of the liners actually is one of the things that depletes the additive packages.
Kit Iwamatsu how would you find out what filter you need
@@theshadetreewelder3523 You'd look up your filter size, then decide if you want to use a filter with built in SCA, or use a liquid additive. Diesel engines need a different package than gas engines. Standard coolant has everything gas engines need, so no worry there. Standard coolant does NOT have some of the things diesel engines need, like Nitrites, Borate, MBT, and Silicates. Some diesel coolants already have a full additive package, and will suggest to NOT use SCAs in addition to what's already in there. If you are using standard coolants, then you will want the SCAs. If you use a fully formulated coolant, you do not need an SCA right off the bat, and it should last quite some time (600k miles, or roughly 2 years) thought using test strips every oil change isnt a horrible idea to make sure the Additives are at a good level.
You in general should consult your engine maker as for what coolant, and what SCA should be used. If your engine manual doesnt detail this (or is a much older engine and uses outdated stuff) then completely flush the system and use new coolant before picking an SCA package.
Anyway, there are, now, really only two additive packages. SCA, and SCA+. SCA Also called DCA2 and BTE, and SCA+ is also called DCA4 and BTA+. If you engine has a lot of aluminum, or has an aluminum block, you will want SCA+. SCA is fine for all older wet sleeve engines. In either case, you need to keep the concentration in range. There are also some diesels with OAT and HOAT coolants... but that's a different story and you see those on much newer engines, and you definitely will refer to the manual on them.
Yay, learning! Thanks, mate!
@@BadHaddy Thank you for the detailed answer. Not quite the same question,but for gasoline engines with standard Prestone or equivalent,I recollect the additive package is on the order of 2 ounces per gallon(undiluted), and with the natural increase in acidity,the protection offered only lasts so long. So the question is,what is the best way to keep the stuff from going acid ? Water pump lubricant is about the only thing I have ever seen in the auto stores that contains some replacement stuff,is there a better product made by someone ? Failing all else the old timey answer was to add some Sodium Carbonate, but I feel iffy about that with Aluminum radiators,etc. Cheers.
@@paulmanson253 There is nothing you can reasonably do once the coolant becomes acidic. Its just the oxidation of the coolant into oxalic and glycolic acid. The corrosion inhibitors have done their job and it's just time to change the coolant. You cannot simply re-add the inhibitors for gasoline products in a way that makes financial sense. ANY product that claims differently is bunk and snake oil, and probably sold alongside engine honey and gasket sealer (note, all junk.) Since each gaslone engine coolant has its own, rather wildly varying formulation.
The type of coolant you use typically determines it's lifespan. The reason dexcool and all the other OAT and HOAT coolants came along was to greatly extend this service interval. When it comes to older coolants, it seems you can classify makers into 3 categories. Those who used phosphates(Asian), those who used silicates (Euro) and those who used both (Murica). Mostly down to the water that is common in the areas.
Anyway, for older cars using universal/green stuff, just drain and fill. While you're at it, replace your radiator cap. People ignore the hell out of that and you end up with the dexcool paste-stew. Just use deionized water, premix with concentrate, and you're golden. 30k miles seems pretty safe. If you want, get the little floatie-dealie bobber to test your concentration (it's called a hydrometer) and make sure its in the range appropriate for your area. And maybe dip in some strips every other oil change to see if you're still in a good ph range. As long as your coolant bottle isn't turning brown you should be fine. As soon as you see particulates (floaties) and discoloration, drain and fill time.
Man I like watching your videos. Great sense of humor. No nasty talking. Great knowledge base.
You deBOSS!
Hi
Brother
I need workshop menual 3.9
Plz
In 2010 rebuilt a Perkins 2.5 diesel 3 cly. for my IMT 539 tractor now has over 2,600 hrs on it still running strong. You explain things very good. Great video, the 3.9 Perkins 4 cly is one of the best engines.
Finally, a mechanic video with educational content. Tool box tours get old.
Kit provided great information regarding cooling system maintenance, and I will just supplement that. The wet sleeve/liner cavitation problem is caused by poor coolant maintenance, whereby air bubble implosions within the coolant remove a protective coating from the exterior of the sleeve/liner. The combustion process causes the sleeve/liner to oscillate (expand and contract) on the thrust side of the piston (as you rightly mentioned) creating an area of low pressure which causes air bubbles to come out of the coolant following the contraction period. After that contraction, the sleeve/liner then expands into the air bubbles causing the air bubbles to implode, creating a shock wave of approximately 60,000 psi against the side of the sleeve/liner, continually removing small amounts of the sleeve/liner material. Eventually, the sleeve/liner wall becomes perforated, allowing coolant to enter the combustion chamber causing catastrophic failure.
Hope that helps.
Takes me back to the years of assembling these at Perkins Peterborough.
Love your videos. I learned about cavitation working on a very old locomotive. Inline 6 cylinder with wet sleeves. Sleeves were about 5/8 inch thick and holes about 1/2 inch. Had to get parts from a museum. On locomotives we just run water for coolant with boron for anti corrosion. No coolant filter. We don't shut them down in the winter outside and if we do they are drained.
The Perkins 3.9 is better known as the 4.236 (4 cylinder, 236 cubic inch), and is nearly identical to the 4.248. Great engines, around 70HP, made with or without the balancer as seen in this engine. Found in many applications like tractors, aircraft tugs and tree chippers. Good vid Mr. D. I welded the liners out of my 236 when I found it impossible to pull them with a plate and all thread puller. Three or four light MIG beads on each, and out they came.
Another method is to use oxyacetylene torch with a neutral flame (flame tip contacting the cylinder) run up and down the bore, one stringer pass to focus heat. Letting it cool will shrink the cylinder allowing it to free up the liner from the block.
You can take a boring bar and bore the linners paper thin. Then peel them out with a sharpened screwdriver! Those linners are so thin that if they are stuck at all it's hard to get a linner puller to grab them!
Good engine you can rebuild them like 4-5 times
These engines, along with the 6-354s that use the same sleeves, pistons, valves, etc. are among the most widely used in the world. The 4-236s were used in thousands of small fishing boats in Third World countries, especially South and Southeast Asia and Africa, but also in the Caribbean, Central America and parts of South America. They were first used in the Massey Ferguson 175 / 180s starting about 1961 and in subsequent Masseys for three decades. They even are in some Allis Chalmers.
So glad I found this channel . My dad and I have rebuilt a few tractor engines over the years , but never a Perkins abs this fall I’ll be rebuilding our case 1210 with a Perkins 👌👍👍thank you for uploading . Friends from Alberta
The last Perkins I rebuilt was an old 4.108. It had dry liners with no lip. You had to set the protrusion while pressing them in, which was fun. Then you had to bore and hone them after being installed. I don't use retainer, in fact I put oil on the liners before pushing them in. I like to plastigauge with no lube on the journal, the lube has a thickness. Good video.
the coked oil will lock and seal them in :)))
You're right on with the coolant filter. I'm a 7.3 Powerstroke guy (but we can still be friends) and I do recommend adding the coolant filters to the engines to maintain the SCA levels (Supplemental Coolant Additive) to prevent cavitation. Navistar (the manufacturer of the 7.3/T444E engine) installed a different water pump on their engines that had a filter head built right into the pump. You can get the filters with or without the SCA additive, but while they do filter grit out of the coolant flowing through them, they also add SCA. It's a double benefit.
Hey thank you for the tip using the sharpening stone on the deck!
You are spot on on the cavitational erosion - the filter has a boron additive that conditions the coolant to slow the process. Like your videos very well.
I was just getting ready to comment on one of your videos to see if you had one on changing dry sleeves. Then I found this. Getting ready to pull the Mitsubishi 4d55t I swapped into my Mazda to rebuild it. Those video(and series) gives me some hope. Thanks Rich!
Using a sharpening stone! What an awesome idea!
Make sure to buy a precision ground stone, or get your local machine shop to grind them flat.
Definitely DON'T use a stone that was used to sharpen a knife. Sharpening a knife makes a belly in the center of the stone, and if the stone isn't flat you will do more harm than good.
Stoning a deck is really handy for telling what the surface looks like. The stone will show shiny spots on any high points, and it will show stuff that you can't see or feel. Often stoning the deck is what I use to decide if a block goes to the machine shop or not.
"I don't want to weld it so I'm gonna hit it with a hammer." 🤣
hammer is not as hot as a weld -
Still work at Perkins to this day.....used to machine / assemble these ...never used loctite on any selves...just bolts ...great video....
I use that welding trick when removing bearing races also. Works great on wheel bearings.
Perkins 4236. A terrific engine.
Best youtube channel there is.
I just subscribed because I bought a 1990 Massey Ferguson 3070 tractor with the 3.9 Perkins engine that has recently been rebuilt. Wanting to learn more about the engine. Thanks for the video. You did good explaining.
Absolutely love the channel man 🤘🏻 keep up the great work!
This is one of the better channels if not the best for learning how to rebuild. He actually tells you specs for bolts and hey this can happen if you don't fallow A C and F steps. Don't forget these steps or you get to redo or have issues such as the fallowing. Which is really important information to us DIY folk. Know if he will just rebuild a 2.5L Chevy iron Duke for a s10. I'd be all set
cant beat working on your own truck whilst watching de boss
The weld bead along the length of the sleeve technique works great! Just don't go crazy and burn holes!
Cool seeing you do this. I worked at one of the perkins distributors and rebuilding shops. Pretty interesting. I’ve seen all these parts about a million times. Those balances aren’t cheap
The whetstone is a highly underrated prep tool. I do a lot of aluminum small engines and it's great for mating surfaces that only get a coat of ThreeBond. Love the channel!
I really enjoy these videos. This makes for much better, and much easier to watch during dinner, than, say, cable news.... TJ
Just watched a western tractor repair video today on same topic, welding em, cavitation, everything. This is a nice follow up vid.
welding a bead down the sleeve is a trick that's been around forever. I worked in a machine shop in the early 90's. used to do it to pull liners and pressed in valve seats in aluminum heads. those where gas motors though. I don't know about dry sleeves in a diesel. keep up the great work.
Only one thing, I use one small drip of "tread-lock" on main and rod end caps bolts after checking the fit.
In the old days we used to drill though the bolt heads and wire them, but thread-lock works even better.
You can't beat those Perkins engines, they have proved to be excellent over time. Thanks for your demo.
Great video. Starting on a complete engine overhaul on my MF255. Thanks for sharing all the info!
Did an Isuzu 4hf1 at work a month ago. Cheap bastard client didn't want to do crankshaft bearings, said they were ok and had been done within the decade. However, they did opt for a new clutch. Long story short, new clutch finished off what was left of the thrust bearings and spun all of the rest
I showed your video to my father. After he returned from Korea in 1953, he worked at a Catapilier shop helping rebuild bulldozer engines. He said he did not use any type of locktite on the sleeves, they put them in dry. He also said they never honed the bores as you did. They would push them out and put the new ones in (cold as you did).
as he said he did not hone it he just was cleaning it
He was using the hone to clean the cylinder. Which technically isn’t proper hone usage. But it works. Could of sat there for 3x as long with a scotch brite pad and got the same results.
Even light honing removes material, changing the fit of the sleeve, also changing the bore of the finished cylinder.
@grafvonstauffenburg no they haven't! Cat,Cummins, Mack and Detroits with wet liners all need no honing! Check the bores,lube the orings and pound/press the linners in. There is no "fitting" of pistons,the factory runs excellent tolerances on their parts! OEM or aftermarket diesel parts have been that way for 40+ years!
@@brandibartolomucci789
You are CORRECT
My favorite channel for sure. Keep it up rich!
Great vid, much prefer this style of presenting...keep ‘em coming
Super informative video as always sir I will admit I dont know much about diesel engines but looks pretty straight forward as its gas cousin lube plastic gauge and triple check everything
Very nicely done and very informative. Thanks for posting.
Rebuilt a dry sleeve engine with an old mechanic-he put the sleeves in our freezer and after they cooled about a day they slipped almost all the way in by gravity. He finished them by hand. I was impressed
It was an 400? cubic inch IH diesel . A bigger bore with more room to contract.
Benny's Custom Works! (mechanical stig)
Even a Bad Boy Bubby reference, you know your Australian stuff!
Hell yeah shout out to Mechanical Stig @8:27! Two amazing mechanics sharing knowledge is always great to see. Would love to see a collaboration at some point.
;) ua-cam.com/video/0Q1PPZTtGEM/v-deo.html
How did I miss this? Lol wish granted I suppose!
Learn so much from Deboss ty do much buddy for sharing ur knowledge!! Coming from West Virginia
I learned a sharpening stone does great honing flat surfaces when I used to rebuild centrifuges. Good tip boss man!
Great work. No need for comments about your efficacy, as your attention to detail comes across very well. Opinions are like hinder holes, everybody has one. I was taken out of the workforce 6 years ago for medical reasons over in the North Dakota section of the Bakken. Your videos are a great escape for me as I haven't been able to wrench on much other than my lawn mower since. Thanks for doing them. They are good emotional therapy. Cheers gear head.
you can get over sized maim bearings for cats if you've had the block line bored.
Love the video, thank you from Cork Ireland.
Awesome vid bro I'm a marine/offshore diesel mechanic of 25 years experience, you were correct about wet liner cavitation, the only thing I can tell you is don't hit the piston when installing into liner,push the piston down completely with handle
we have always used dry ice to install liners and it works great. the new coolants have dca attitive in the coolant to avoid liner cavitation. or if you use glycol then run a dca additive filter.
I use the weld method to pull old bearing shells and bushings.....it works like a champ!
super cool your liner push in by hand
We used to use a bigger sleeve with a chunk of flat bar and a long threaded rod to pull them out on a few motors the bang would indeed catch you off guard. The press way is Uber better. Plasti Guage is good stuff. Great video.
Nah bro, your neighbor is a genius. I have done that with a bearing race in a blind hole in an aluminum transfer case. The secret is speed. In my case the race was thin so I used a TIG torche You want to minimize the heat transfer. ESPECIALLY with aluminum on the other side. TIG is hot fast. I ran a "bead", just heat from the bottom of the blind hole to the top. Took 2 maybe 3 seconds. Then I threw cold water on it. Done. I could almost pick it out with my fingers where I broke an inside puller on it 20 minutes earlier. I bet if you could take a big TIG and run a "bead"(no metal just heat) from the bottom to the top where the sleeve is backed up by the thickest part of the block it would be no problem especially since that sleeve looks pretty thin. Actual welding puts in too much heat and tries to warp the sleeve though I don't doubt it would work. I just think the TIG works better because it is faster. Soon as the sleeve cools a bit it almost stops putting heat into the cast iron block. Dump some water in immediately afterwords and the block should barely be warm.
You are a awesome mechanic!
Hey Rich, shepherds pie is the good stuff man, I love it.
@debossgarage I'm not trying to argue, but I thought cavitation was due to the vapour bubbles imploding against the walls!
You've givin me alot of help with my schooling and I really appreciate this channel! Thanks for your great work and awesome channel! Wish more people were like you!
Yep your correct I think. I was taught this too
When my kids and I are watching repair videos on UA-cam. The hammer is always the tool to reach for.
On a wet sleeve engine in addition to a water filter, many also had a de-aeration line to help avoid cavitation next to the liner wall.
Great vid. I learned a lot and you explained well.. I love this channel
Love the ‘been there, did that [myself]’ humor!!!!!!
Coolant filters have little pellets of SCA's in solid form rattling around in them until you run them a bit and the pellets dissolve and mix into the coolant.
If you have a local place to get dry ice fill up an igloo cooler that’s big enough for a sleeve or all of them to fit in. A freezer isn’t cold enough to shrink them much. Probably won’t need a press using dry ice. Great videos.
Sharpening stone is a nice tip!
Great video. Really interesting rebuild
you explain it really well, cheers
I really love this type of video
An air hammer sometimes works great when driving out dry liners. Sometimes it won’t, worth a shot!
I have seen guys pack the cylinder liners in dry ice , they basically fell into the bores. Thanks
Fill a pan with kerosene, put the parts in that, then put in the deep freeze or dry ice box.
My work we use filters with out additives because we use a coolant that has those additives in it.
Great build!
Have had to weld beads on press fit tapered bearing races to help aid in removal. Its a real nice trick.
I work on big equipment for a living, d11s highwall miners, joy miners, 994 loaders,some huge rebuilds, from 400 big cam Cummins to 3500 series cats if you have to tell people every 20 seconds dont need the negative comments then your doing something right. I watch this shit every evening your a great knuckle buster. people if you can do any better dont be scared to make a channel if you dont like his shit dont watch. You look good from my end ol pal hard to believe youd get any negative feedback. I dont understand people now days. Where I'm from you run your mouth in person. the mechanics I watch on UA-cam are a select few seem alright to me!
When stripping the AD3.152 or AD4.203. We just catch the liner edge with either a long narrow chisel or clean flat screwdriver and peel it to the top til it collapses in. Never had an issue.
great video , thanks
very nice work
Thank you uncle
A master class. Fantastic
Famoso Perkins 4 cilindros um dos melhores do motores do mundo 😂❤
Made a carefully shaped drift to carve straight down the side of liners, works a treat, no marks, I do this because I often fit liners and pistons with the engine in situ. Although it's not strickly correct, I have always found the new liners will go in easy by tapping with a wooden block, never needed to cool them. My engine man always bores the block if the liners slide too easy and fits oversize liners, also he always uses unfinished liners and bores them once in the block as they were originally.
great video,the tractor stuff looks fun to work on!
so nice
He's like when he's talking about the piston rings and then he puts the sleeve on it he says oh I hope it's big enough and I was like that's what she said
Guys like you and South Main Auto are gonna put shops teachers out of work 😉
No that was tax raises and budget cuts
thank you for the video
YOU ARE THE MAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!
put your liners in the freezer.........they will tap in nicely. Just work quickly because obviously as they warm up they start to grab the block. I once worked on a mack truck ( EA7-470) that even welding the liners wouldnt get one liner out. So we jacked up the entire front of the truck ( 4500kg) resting on the liner, ran another weld down the stubborn liner, and came back 60 minutes later after lunch..........that moved it =) AS always, get the specs and make sure the finished liner protrusion is on the manufacturers specs so that when the head is torqued down it gets the correct crush fit and a good seal.
If you watched the video... he actually did freeze them. -18c on a 0c day.
Yup, Keep the block at room temp. Sleeves in a freezer overnight. Have it together to work fast and get the new sleeve home in a few seconds. I've been doing this since 1964 on Farmall H and M series with "firecrater" set ups.
Great video
Yeah your correct I used to work for a John Deere workshop in Australia and they do have a filter for the coolant and specialy designed coolant to prevent cavetation but it still does happen just takes a lot longer with the right coolant
From what I know coolant filters filter. It’s the additives in the coolant that do the protecting.
I have only ever come across one dry liner engine, that was a 1956 Leyland diesel. The liners were an easy hand slide in and out and the manufacturers service book said to coat the liners in engine oil to aid heat transfer. On wet liners I was told to run a 50% anti freeze mixture to stop cavitation, this raises the boiling point. Cavitation works by bubbles forming from reduced pressure lowering the boiling point of the liquid and then the bubbles imploding blasting the metal away, raise the boiling point and the pressure needs to be even lower for bubbles to form.
I enjoy your channel. While watching your 3.9 Perkins 4-cyl Dry Sleeve Engine Rebuild | Massey Ferguson 270 [EP2] video ....the part where you were struggling to remove the dry sleeve, the thought occurred to me that freezing the inner sleeve would maybe contract it enough that it would press out a lot easier. Being a physical scientist, I considered how you could accomplish this. What I came up with is quite simple and hope that in the future you might give it a try. seal the bottom of the cylinder with some silicone and a round piece of wood or plastic lid of the correct diameter. fill the cylinder to the top with crushed ice and some water. Let it sit a minute or two and I suspect the sleeve should contract a few thousands thereby making the extraction much easier.
Another great video, my old boss who was a machinist and an engine builder used to say that plastigauge was made for jack legs who don't have the brains to read the mics and precision tools necessary to measure proper clearances. And he would tell us that if you have to use plastigauge then you need to go get a job working on briggs and stratton lawnmower engines. I personally never had any issues using plastigauge - as long as he never saw me using it. To him that was an offense to be fired over!
I would say your primarily correct about the coolant filter. Big part is maintenance of the fluid by adding cleaners and cheese to it.
But it still has a paper element so it will filter, it will filter out rust and crap dropped in. On a non industrial vehicle.. no need for a filter. But industrial, the coolant system can be constantly checked. Our vehicles get all fluids ( not diff) checked every time it comes back to the yard.
Great video!
Thanks for the video, keep your rod in a vice.
Sounds like someone watches their MCM by that recommendation by a Benny, Mechanical Stig
Nice rebuil;d on a nice engine !
6:50 no joke. When you rack up the tons on that gauge it gets scary. I bought an air over hydraulic press just so that I can actuate it from a safe distance. I'll stand besides the post and look through the little hole with safety glasses on.
Great job