Game of Thrones/ASOIAF Theories | The Old Powers Are Waking | The Winged Wolf
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The Old Powers are Waking Part 2
Is the Winged Wolf really Bran?
Theories and analysis of A Song of Ice and Fire using text evidence and quotes from George RR Martin.
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Winterfell isnt where winter ended. It is where it began. This becomes clear when you read the story Davos gets told when he is imprisoned at White Harbor. The Starks are the kings of winter because they control it through their bond with the others. They bring winter upon their enemies. Winter is coming.
I dont think there is a proper evil entity here. Martin has even said as much. It will be dependant upon whos perspective you take.
I also think it was the comet interpretated by Summer.
George Martin always says, there is not a proper evil. Although I love these videos they may oversimplify what George is creating. I also think that Starks and Others made an agreement thousands of years ago and ASOIAF is not a good vs evil story.
@ it makes more sense to be about maintaining balance. Hot or Cold can be uncomfortable, but a balance between the two is pleasent. Think about warm or fresh or even a more perfect balance than that.
The comet was long gone at that point. Also still doesn't explain the damage that Winterfell suffered
The annotations at the end of Dance with Dragons confirm that Jojen is a green seer, too. Great video!
After watching this video I couldn't help but be reminded of Dany' s vision in the House of the Undying about the great stone beast breathing shadow fire. It strangely ties in with the burning of Winterfell a stone castle. Also, the bit about swallowing the sun immediately brings to mind the long night, or an eclipse. As always you guys give me much to think about unit TWOW come out.
That is an interesting parallel we hadn't thought of...thank you so much for pointing it out
man, i love these passages the jojen introduction and the varamyr sixskins are just great writing. the prologue of tWoW is by far the most heartbreaking read ever and makes you feel such empathy for such an evil man. its truly genius
it really is a great prologue...I really like the epilogue with Kevan Lannister too...he's a really underrated character
I've been so busy at work lately I have just now had time to watch this. WOW! As soon as I think I've got a handle on things you absolutely blow my mind, I think I know how Jon Snow feels because you're constantly letting me know that I know nothing! Thanks for another fantastic video, can't wait for more!
We aim to please Jim...I totally understand being busy...I have fallen hopelessly behind in the comment section for that exact reason
I know this is about Bran, but I think Robb warged his mom when he died.. I know it sounds crazy, but I have researched it like crazy.
Gaming With A White Guy do tell!! I love hearing the more "out there" theories, I'm curious, how would he warg Catelyn when she was dead too? The time between his and her and grey wind's death, would leave a good chunk of time for his spirit to just be floating about, wouldn't it? Was his warning ability really that strong? I know grey wind fought beside him in battle and whatnot, but there's no real mention of him having wolf dreams or anything like that, I always thought of him as one of the less powerful wargs in the family... but please still tell, I'd love to hear the theory!!
Pamela Mertz There's a video someone made for me using some of the evidence I had gathered at the time.
I will post a link to it.
It started with the way Cat's final paragraph reads. It's OUT there. The only thing it resembles is when 6 skins tries to warg another human and she goes bat shit insane.
I wish I could type it all but, I will post the link. And even the video doesn't get into everything.
I'm definitely gonna check it out, and I'll probably end up doing a little digging myself in the end, lol I love ASOIAF theories, and this is one i haven't heard before, so I'm definitely curious, thank you!
Pamela Mertz I love theories too! And most people shake this one off. But if they re read Cat's final couple pages.. It's so weird. And deserves being looked into. And Robb had no wolf to b warg into, and his mom was there. And..I dunno. It's something worth looking into.
thats great!
incredible stuff, as always.
Thank you Dom!
I appreciate the analysis and effort ya's put into these videos. Though I love the show because I absolutely love the books. I honestly believe the show has ruined our actual understanding of the novels. What we think is happening is most definitely not happening in the story I don't think grrm would do that to us or his masterpiece 😉
Thank you so much and couldn't agree more...we think the show veered off onto their own path 3 seasons ago because George realized then that they were going to finish ahead of him, and out of respect to George, D&D and HBO are going out of their way not to spoil his masterpiece he has spent over two decades creating...there are also non-disclosures in the contracts that give George the legal authority on what they are allowed to reveal of his yet to be released material
Awesome as usual! Do you think that if the Great Other is below the crypts of Winterfell, that it calls to Jon Snow?
we think the Great Other was buried beneath the Old Keep (where Bran fell from), which was completely destroyed
According to dictionary.com, alternate definitions of "fell" are "fierce, cruel; dreadful; savage,destructive; deadly (adjectives,) and (noun) the skin or hide of an animal; pelt. Interesting.
FINALLY someone who believe that the dragon that Summer saw was real!
Can I discuss these theories in the quora answers i write? I'll mention the videos and the channel.
Sure why not! You don't plan on roasting us do you? Haha jk
Thanks
Your videos are an island in the endless swamp of mediocre R+L=Jesus youtube channels. Your passion and care for the source material is so evident in all of your videos and it's just a joy to watch you dissect the text theory after theory.
Thank you Aegorl! You aren't bitter at all! :)
Aegor Bittersteel Rivers, That's exactly how I feel about the order of the Green hand channel. I found them when they had 6k subs and I immediately joined. They hit the nail on the head every single time and voice theories that I've thought too!
I concur.
I hold The Order of the Green Hand in reverence! Premium stuff! 👍👍
I agree!!!
Thank you both so much
Yes, The Order of the Green hand is a cut above!
Regarding Haggon's abomination, and the third abomination Bran hasn't committed yet.... I am currently reading through ADWD right now, and I got this incredibly sick feeling in my stomach when I read this thought Bran had while watching Meera cry... "I could put on
Hodor’s skin, he thought. Hodor could hold her and pat her on the back. The thought made Bran feel
strange..."
It's been made very clear that as Bran approaches adolescence, he is growing very "fond" of Meera... and he may somehow (using some sick justifications) commit the third abomination... not in wolf skin. This creeps me out to no end, and this will certainly seal the deal that Bran is falling to the "dark side"
Oh wow. Never thought of that. Poor Bran, being handicap is the worst
Even if it turns out you are wrong about every single thing, I think I'll stick to your version :) it makes the story whole and even more complex.
I can think of no greater compliment...thank you so much
The Order of the Green Hand you are very welcome :) thank you for the videos
Thank you for watching
So Jojen had green dreams, but wasn't a greenseer? I remember Meera saying that Jojen's dream "may" come true, but Jojen says they always do. I thought Meera was dissuading Jojen from believing them because she doesn't want to acknowledge his dream of his own death. Poor Jojen!!!
Ya'll have perfect voices for lessons on computers. Was waiting for test at the end.
thank you...and thanks again for pledging in our live stream...and sorry we were so bad at it...I promise next time it will be better
ya'll weren't to bad, was easy to follow after the video was corrected
This channel is Goosebumps tickly unreal out in the art of theory crafting. Please continue unravelling Mr. Martins masterwork with your clinical eyes for details and your highly interesting interpretation of the story.
Wow! Thank you! thats an amazing compliment. We will continue paying homage to the great architect of this universe, Mr. Martin, in whatever humble way we can.!
Gosh I hope Rickon lives in the books; I think he will be extremely powerful once he's old enough to fully understand his powers. Maybe not as strong as Bran, but in a way more fearsome.
For example...I found it interesting that after the 3EC came to Bran and Rickon when Ned died, and Luwin took the group into the crypts, Summer and Hodor refuse to enter, and Bran references the sense of dread being so strong that even Maester Luwin could feel it. Then, they come to discover Rickon and Shaggy were hiding in pure darkness behind Ned's tomb. And who knows how long they'd been down there prior to getting found. So, why is it that everyone else was so extremely afraid in there despite having a torch to light their way, yet Rickon was 100% comfortable in the darkness, alone save for Shaggy? It's like he was immune to the fear sensed by the others.
Also, about the same time in the story, Bran mentions that Rickon would forget that Ned was dead. I don't think Rickon forgot in the way Bran thought he did. I think Rickon routinely went into the crypts and talked to Ned's ghost, and seeing Ned so frequently made it seem to Rickon that he wasn't truly dead. That could also have something to do with why Rickon was not afraid to be in the crypts when the others were. He may have found it comforting because that's where he saw his father. Which kinda concerns me for the 3EC's plans for Rickon overall. I am probably wrong, but that's just my two cents.
Ashley of Naath interesting points to think about! I forgot Rickon was down there the whole time, maybe he's been tricked by the three eyed crow as well, but was too young to even explain what was happening to him? It would explain his wild and fierce nature (besides warging into shaggy too often), and it would explain shaggy's seemingly constant rage and fear, etc, since it seems the animals can sense things beyond human senses... I really like this idea, very interesting, thank you!
Pamela Mertz You are most welcome😊. I do think Rickon's powerful ability to warg is hinted at through his behavior. Everyone around him attributes Rickon's wild, aggressive behavior to him being a willfull child experiencing lots of change that he doesn't understand due to his age. However, I think his wild behavior is a direct result of him constantly warging Shaggy, and not understanding what was happening to him with that. Plus, people who are very skeptical about magic in adults would not think to look for the gift in a child so young (I believe he was 3/4 at this point of the story). Especially when the behavior could be explained away by a natural cause. As was pointed out by Ser and Lady Greenhand, Bran, the most powerful, comes close to losing himself while warging Summer on multiple occasions. So what do you suppose would happen to a 3/4yr old doing the same thing? Idk about you, but in my estimation, it stands to reason that the younger child would be more affected by the magic due to inability to understand, and therefore control, his warging.
CUDOS!!!! nice I believe now, my butterfly child..
Marie Driskell Thank you❤
Ashley of Naath I wouldn't hold out hope for Rickon. It seems to me (and many others who actually came up with this theory) that the names of the DW tell something vitally important about the stark kid that owns it. Ghost points to Jon's death and resurrection. Nymeria was a warrior princess and Arya is learning to be an assassin. Lady represented Sansa's love of courtly life (as a lady is a highborn women) and its death foreshadowed the death of Sansa's naivety. Summer foreshadows Bran's role in ending the next Long Night. This brings us to Shaggy Dog. A shaggy dog story is a story with an anticlimax. It's named after a joke about a shaggy dog that doesn't go anywhere. GRRM would, of course, know about shaggy dog stories. I don't think Rickon's DW's name is a coincidence. Therefore, I doubt Rickon's story will go anywhere.
Great! Q. Who else is described as being small and sickly when he was a boy? Littlefinger. I think LF skin changes a cat in KL. Arya chased a cat below the dungeons then overhead Varys and Illirio. LF, later talks to Varys about his meeting with a certain foreign dignitary. Who was there? Arya, Varys, Illirio and the CAT. LF could be related to Blackwoods , who have these abilities and he's fixated on Went blood and Harrenhall. Hope you investigate and add to LF videos? Thanks for great video!
That is an excellent point QOT...that scene is only in the show but since you pointed it out last we have been seriously contemplating to using it
The Order of the Green Hand The only show specific was the LF varys scene, unless I m wrong. Syrio has Arya round up all the cats in the castle. Why? does he know someone is skinchanging them to spy? The book has a lot more about the strange behavior of the mean old tomcat that she couldn't catch. He once attacked Tywin, guards warned Arya ect. Someone has to be skinchanging that cat, Syrio knows it too. Loved your work, Thanks for reply
In this video 4:20 you say "cats are vain and cruel, always ready to turn on you" this sounds like Littlefinger. Maybe his personality was shaped by the cats he skin changed into. Hopefully he was not Sir Pounce...lol
Jokerz Gal + I've always thought it's either LF or he has a warg in his employ. Then green hand mentioned personality (as you did too) and I just had to bring it up. In the show LF has given a gyrfalcon to Robyn Arryn. I firmly believe that LF intends to have him die accidentally. QOT husband luther, died whilst hawking. "he was paying attention to the bird, and not to where his horse was taking him. He rode off a cliff". We see the samething in the show, Robyn doesn't look away from the bird when he's deciding about lord Royces life. I think the show added the varys LF scene to be more obvious. QOT
well hell
Varamyr Sixskins visited many of his children born to Free folk women and found that non of them had the gift of skinchanging. Ned Stark's children and presumably Ned himself are wargs, he passed it down to his kids. Leaf said one in a thousand is a skinchanger and one in a thousand skinchangers is a Greenseer, that seems much more random. is warging genetic and Skinchangeing not?
that is a really interesting observation...we will definitely look at that closer
Not just Ned's children but his family line seems to be strong with it as Jon is Lianna Stark's son.
Late to comment here, but it could very well be that the skinchanging gene is recessive. This would explain why Ned's children have the warging abilites, but the children of Varamyr don't. Probably none of the mothers of his children have the skinchanging gene.
@@kreiyu Nppe he's not son of her's but of Ned and Ashara.
@@michaelstark8720 that's just the lie ned lets people believe because Robert berathian would have jon killed if he knew. John would be a legitimate heir and a threat to roberts seat on the iron throne. So ned lies to protect jon. While not explicitly said in the books, it is hinted at.
Love it! Supporting evidence of dragon rage in that chapter:
Summer hears a roar and a crash so large it shakes her feet.
The stone tower being destroyed from inside out, rocks strewn outward from tower, and burned inside though abandoned for centuries and empty of bodies.
The *charred man* bran and company witness at the sept. Hands balled up to his face as if trying to stop...a gaping dragon maw from crisping him!
YASSSSSSS we all need to appreciate the time and in-depth analysis The Order OF the Greenhand takes to make these videos. Much love. Keep up the good work!!
Thank you so much Sir Gentlemen
could the winged wolf been trapped and sealed in another an entrance into the underworld? An entrance like the one rumored to be under the house of black and white. Which is why it seemed like winter came as soon as Winter fell was destroyed? which leads to my question, is the Winged Wolf able to bring the cold and breath fire? Is that the song of ice and fire? Just made me wonder if this winged beast is what George is referring to having both fire and ice, not Jon like everyone thinks!
So good I'm desperately awaiting the next video! Such great analysis and well thought out theories are why OTGH is my favorite GOT subscription.
Thank you Mary-Pat!
18:03 that is the funniest thing I've seen all week
that was so fun to make! we laugh everytime too!
So if old man seems to always be right, and her saying all crowd are lyers.....would bran really have died if he hit the ground the ground
Old nan****
We question whether he would have died. Luwin thought he was going to survive well before the dream happened
Wait... Arya spent a lot of time as a cat when she went blind... what did that do to her? is that why she seems to be getting more bloodthirsty? 🤔
what is life without the order of the greenhand :p
no life at all
By far, the most entertaining and most accurate depiction I've heard by any Channel. You take us deeper into the world of Ice and Fire without all the way out ideas of complete and utter nonsense that I've seen from most channels or lack thereof all together. Great fkn job and keep em coming. I will be supporting on Patreon.
Thank you so much...it is nice to hear that all our hard work is appreciated
Is it considered bad that I've actually been much more interested in the magical aspect of GOT/ASOIAF such as this and the White Walkers than the political aspect. ?
Not at all...at this point in the story, this stuff is what matters...people who are still playing the game of thrones missed the boat
It's the exact opposite for me.
got my snacks, all ready to listen to 22 minutes of bliss!!!
hope you enjoyed
The Order of the Green Hand I always do!! I love the ending part of this vid, how you peeps Summed it all up.
The Order of the Green Hand it was perfect!
As I've said many times..Definitely the most in-depth youtube channel on the topic.
thank you paul...we try
Okay... I'm feeling like I have to watch all of these again. I wanted to point out something.... right after the Crow tells Bran that the reason he must live is because Winter is coming.... Bran wakes up and chooses to name his wolf Summer. Perhaps "Winter" is the name of something... the great winged river of fire breathing serpent, the Great Other.... Winter fell at Winterfell and has been "sleeping" ever since.... ??? Hmmmmm You two go way out of the box with some of this stuff, but not without a good bit of reason... which you point out. Kudos.
I maybe wrong but I am pretty sure there is a slavic tale of a winged dog/wolf that that is chained to polaris to prevent him to destroy the world.
Edit: I looked it up and he was called Simagrl. He was depicted as either a winged Canine or a winged Lion. He was married to the godess of night. There are 3 goddess that watch him, the Zorya the eveing star, midnight star and the morning star. And if he broke free of his chains he'd swallow ursa minor (the little bear) and destroy the universe.
Ok, so, I have heard this video twice, trying to recollect my own thoughts on it.
I don’t know in which cavern of my mind did I locked this wolf dream where we see the flying snake, but as soon as you guys mentioned the snake I stopped the video (first view) and the memory immediately hit my mind and what I thought of it at the time of reading it.
I thought it was not a wolf dream but a greendream Bran was having, and I thought this signal the existence of an ice dragon, that appears in another Martin story. But that was all; I thought it was a sort of premonition. So I kept listening to you guys and my own theory of the event crumbled because how could it be an ice dragon when it was surrounded by fire? And then I remembered some people saying it was Dany’s dragon, but that seems quite impossible considering they are so far and no one in Westeros has been stated to witnessing dragons, which is not to say Dany and her dragons won’t eventually come to Winterfell but the thing with that is it requires to Bran having a greendream instead of the wolf dream he seems to be having. And the difference is Bran is seeing Winterfell burn in real time, so It can’t be both the future and the present unless Winterfell would burn again (which it could, but for it to look the same to Bran someone would have had to rebuild Winterfell and that hasn’t happen as of yet).
The point I was trying to make in all this rambling is you guys have given me a lot to think about, because if it was a wolf dream in real time, the only explanation possible is the dragon was present at that time. Even if it was an ice dragon (that breath fire, because, plot reasons)… it would have still had have to come from somewhere, not the wall that is so far, so where? I don’t know if you guys are right but this is the first time in all my theory years I have nothing to revoke this with. NOTHING. I can’t think of anyway for this to mean something else, and I heard it again and it just made me more and more convince.
I have to say, I think you guys are on point with this. I don’t know if that thing is the great other or not, but it is irrelevant, whatever it is, it came out of Winterfell. And that blows my mind.
PS: the wolf part of it could be because a wolf set it free, meaning Bran choosing the crow, with that he could have stopped being the Stark that must always be on Winterfell to be an instrument of another.
Dany is told to remember who she is. Bran is told to remember who he is. Is Dany warging/being warged?
ohshitohshitohshitohshitohshitohshitohshitohshitohshitohshitohshitohshitohshitohshitohshitohshitohshitOHSHIT
WOW! Insanely good and detailed videos, my new favourite asoiaf channel.
Love it! How does this tie in to "There must always be a Stark in Winterfell"?
+Jonathan McCune that's exactly where our minds went with it too originally but Bran and Rickon were still there. We then debated whether the magic would care if Bran and Rickon were Snows and determined that it would be weird if that were the case because Ned told Catelyn that Robb must stay because there must always be a Stark in Winterfell so if he counts as the Stark his brothers should as well
Not got far enough in my re-read yet, but don't Bran, Rickon, the Reeds and crew leave Winterfell to make a false trail for Theon and Reek(Ramsey) to follow. Then double back and hide in the Crypts. I'm pretty sure that's not show only. If so would that one night away have woken the Dragon under Winterfell.
If so was it Jojens idea to set the false trail out of Winterfell? If not how would Jojens appearance caused this to happen....
Chained wolf is a reference to Fenrir - the wolf whose freeing will bring about Ragnarok after Fimbulwinter (a great winter).
Howland took the sign of Jojen's dream and sent both he and Meera forth to Winterfell. But Jojen isn't the three eyed raven (crow) Bran is. Jojen's purpose may be to help bran become the three eyed raven who ultimately helps break the stone chains of the winged wolf. I believe may be a metaphor for Jon snow. In ACOK V it is never specified what kind of wings the wolf has in Jojen's prophetic dream. The picture of fan-art featured in your video shows a (white) wolf with feathered wings making it seem angelic almost. Meera proclaims to Bran that he is the winged wolf probably because that is what her father or brother may have thought. BUT all of this was before any of them (except blood raven) knew that Bran was to become the three eyed raven. So in Jojen's green dream if Bran is the three eyed raven who or what is freeing? I don't think it's literally a dragon hidden in winterfell otherwise what has been eating this whole time? I believe the stone chains are a metaphor of a nearly unbreakable oath/secret that is holding back the winged wolf. A winged wolf that has no feathers instaed it has dragon wings. What if the winged wolf is Jon Snow? Of course that goes with a R+L=J theory and not a N+A=J theory. I'm not claiming to be fan of either theories too heavily i can see arguments that favor both to be honest. I just found this channel last night and i love your videos and theories. This was just one of mine.
Every time I read a Meister's account of some legend, and he calls it "ridiculous".... I pretty much figure that there is truth in the legend. One such is when the legend is that the children of the forest and some of the first men bred or intermarried... of course this is ridiculous.... NOT.
new stuff was on par, very good
I always worry for Arya when I read the passage about skinchanging into a cat and the effects it has..
Great video as always, but saying you introduce clarity to game of thrones is wrong, I'm always left with more questions and thoughts about the series after watching one of your videos than before.
If the great other is a dragon beneath winterfell and the great other is the opposite of the lord of light, do you not think it would make more sense for it to be an ice dragon, rather than a fire breathing one?
Out of curiosity are you familiar with the 'Gendry reforging Ice for Jon to fight the night king with' if you are, what are your thoughts on it?
I truly appreciate your in depth analysis and your presentation. Keep up the good work.
Thank you so much
do we think this is why there must always be a Stark in Winterfell and the Reeds took them away therefore unblocking some kind of magick?
so I had a thought and the more I think about it the more it makes sense. I believe the the stone men are a race of beings that are very similar to the others. I believe in the next two books the will have a much bigger role to play than just an abomination. they and grey scale wouldn't be talked about so much in a George Martin book if they didn't have a significant role to play. what do you think about that.
+Logan Paroz we have wondered what purpose the stone men serve for a while and your theory is as good as any we've been able to come up with. There's definitely something there
I saw your video on how there are multiple races of Those Who Sing The Song Of Earth all around the world and though that same could be for the Others. I love your videos and can't wait to see how the next book plays out.
7 dislikes.... 7 hells.... may Tha others take ya haters
I love you for that! Haha
The Order of the Green Hand you two are awesome
thank you! you too. i think its the same seven people!
The Order of the Green Hand make em take the black..
Hahahahaha! Done! Effin crows.
I think this is on topic I'm not sure, but here it goes anyway. The Unsullied in Essos worship a goddess that has been referred to as the mother of hosts. Tormund Thunderfist is referred to as father of hosts. Do you think they are comparable? I get the impression that the Unsullied goddess is some sort of death or war goddess. Following your equation that a death god may actually be the Great Other is it possible that the Unsullied and maybe even Tormund may be like Bran and Dany and are unknowingly doing the Great Other's dirty work?
that's a parallel we attempted to riddle out when we did our Kingsguard videos, but was unable to figure out what if any the significance is...we are firm believers that there are no coincidences in these books but we feel like there is a missing piece of information that is needed to make sense of this one
Thank you for answering my question. I love your channel. You two do GREAT work. I'll just sit here in Jean Auel hell till the next book comes out. lol
the winged snake he saw through the direwolf was the red comet in the sky
Can it not be that this snake is the one the Night kind is going to use in the great war. Not because it subyugates it just because the night king serves it or are just allies. That can be linked to the phrase "There always must be a Start in winterfel" and the fact the night king felt the time to release the snake. My ideas are confusing but it makes sense, and all relates with what its been said in this video...
we thought about the stark in winterfell aspect of it but Bran and Rickon were there when it got loose, which is why we didn't mention it, but we definitely are on board with your idea that the Others and this winged snake are allies of sorts
Is not only about the Stark in Winterfell. Either you or "Secrets of the Citadel" talked in a video about the connection of all these events with the Starks and the Targaryens. It can be that the connection is not about the Starks only phisically in Winterfell but also with their power not intact but not as it was after Ned's and Rob's dead?
Either way, your theories are just amazing...
I have the most respect for your videos over anyone else's. And I've commented before about this so I do not want to be redundant. But just take a little time and ponder Barristan Selmy and Ashara Dayne. If he was truly a match for Arthur Dayne but Dawn gave Arthur an advantage, this coming from a quote from GRRM...coupled with Septa Lemore still being in play. I just can't help but feel that there is more to this. I can give citations and evidence if you would so wish. Via e mail or some other mode of communication. I LOVE and RESPECT and AGREE and HOPE that AD is Mance, and Barristan and Lemore nearly crossed paths...in the grand scheme of things there could be a plot here. I just feel that with your skills, you could connect some dots that I haven't been able to, or propose a theory that I can't figure out.
thank you so much...believe it or not, comments like yours are very motivating for us in this daily grind of researching and writing and video making...it definitely seems possible that the two of them will meet again....it would be nice for him anyways...whether she feels inclined to reciprocate his love might be the issue...he's in his 70s if I'm not mistaken, and she is about 40...I personally would like to see her take her rightful place as the lady of Winterfell, with Jon as King...i think the scene where Jon and her meet would probably be the most powerful scene in the entire story
Just wondering how many of you do the same thing as me : A new video from TOOTGH ….. Yipeee - Watch it a few times just to make sure nothing is missed. . Back from work the following day: check YT…. none :-( Back home the day after : Checked YT : none :-( ….. (fingers crossed there will be a video 2mrw)
haha...thank you so much...if there was more time in a day we might be able to put out more than a video or sometimes two in a week, but the amount of research we need to do before feeling comfortable sharing a theory makes it nearly impossible for us to do more
Agreed. it'll be so satisfying when winds comes out..as I believe a lot if what you guys say will be revealed to be true and all the r +l believers will have to eat that humble pie...George is way too crafty to just do the whole...Oh he's a secret Prince...epic destiny..magic sword..battle against the nights king. lol. it'll be so much more satisfying if it's just. yh Jon was neds son all along. the only lie was that he was trueborn
Reece, with all the haters out there, I can't say that I didn't grin when you said that they will eat their humble pie. I will gladly watch them swallow it whole..:D
Very telling that Sansas wolf was killed🤔
****TARP ALERT***** If you do not want to have to scrub the brains off of your drapes. Your mind will be blown
hahahahaha thats great. and thank you.
Wargs also appear in the Ragnarok myth, which in my opinion what the backdrop of Ice and Fire the story is about. Fire vs Ice giants. Others vs Dany and Dragons.
there is definitely a lot of Norse influence on the story...but he adds other aspects from other mythology and history and makes changes to suit his needs for the story...the amount of research he clearly does is incredible
The Order of the Green Hand Tyrion's brother Jamie loses his hand crippling a warg. Tyr loses his hand chaining a warg in Norse. There aren't one to one comparisons, but there is a lot by one degree of separation.
I know why you aren't part of the gold company.... your' one channel is equal if not, better than the 5..,. synergy
+Sean Patrick Quinn thank you!
OK. We have three BOYS near death who have all been visited by the crow - Bran, Jojen and Petyr. But Tyrion was also lingering between life and death for a month, why has the crow not visited him? And we have Osha, who says to Bran in the same book - The Clash of Kings - that she would rather not like to know the crow...
the crow visits people he has a use for...he must not have had anything he wanted from Tyrion
if john is a king can he be a promised prince? Did john give all titles and inheritence away when he joined the men of the watch? any thoughts about this line of thinking.
That is a really good question...we have a theory that ties directly into Jaime's inheritance as well, but we're going to hold onto it until we do a Jaime video
I think they know it too. go green!!!!!!!!!!
Does anyone think euron is the crow
I love when I am made to look at things I thought I had figured out from a completely new and different perspective. So much so that I think about it for days afterwards. As always, phenomenally well-done. Bravo!
Thank you so much
The only part about the great Other being the fire breathing legend under Winterfell that I can't get behind is that it breathes FIRE. There's a ton of references to fire being man's savior, I can't imagine fire (or a dragon) being the Other's weapon of choice. Still super perplexed as to why Winterfell was so wrecked now, thanks for that! It should have occurred to me that the place is mostly stone during my read through but it just didn't. Great stuff, keep up the great work!!!
thank you...we had trouble wrapping our minds around the fire thing too, but decided that just because fire is a good thing or a savior to mankind in one situation doesn't have to make it good in every other situation...that is often the case in stories with magic, where the magic or in this case fire is neither good nor evil, but it can be used for good or evil, so it is up to the one who wields it whether it will be used for good or evil...I'm kinda tired and that was kinda poorly phrased but hopefully you get what I'm trying to say...and it seems like the Others and the cold that comes with them is only one cog in the Great Other's wheel so to speak
The Order of the Green Hand I was definitely coming around to the idea as I chewed on it more... it is surprising how many indicators that a dragon or some magic entity is under Winterfell! Jon burning his hand saving Joer is a good, single-scene example of fire helping/hurting, in support of your assessment. Also btw thanks for all the content, I love how much homework you guys do, it gets my wheels spinning again! I have a daughter named Lyanna, GRRM's writing has an amazing way of begging us to question it, and burning characters into our memory!
i thought the faces on thr trees were the faces of the first skin changers to warg into them
MICK O'RAWE I thought something similar as well, which I asked about in part 1...I was confused by the theory of it being Jon speaking versus Bran. Maybe part 3 will bring all the pieces together for me. A lot of time went into this, can't wait for the conclusion.
When y'all started talking about the Winged wolf I was thinking most people will think it's Jon but I'm in the N+A=J camp even more so since I watched your vids about it. So it couldn't be Jon and I was wondering what y'all thought it was since I think the three eyed trickster bird was lying to the young Mister Reed. I was going through the limited amount of knowledge I admit I have for the books and all I could come up with are too embrassing to say what I thought y'all were going to say. I completely forgot about the Winged Serpent and when y'all said it I was like "Of course!!!"
The Order of the Green Hand never disappoints me. Well done keep up the good work oh and Catelyn sucks but of course y'all knew that.😎
You two resonate so well together, such a joy to listen to.
thanks cup of joe! my favorite thing!
Nicely done...this was a welcome sight after a long shift at work. Bran III and Varamyr's prologue in ADwD are among some of the most crucial passages in the story so far. Cheers!
Absolutely ! I've read and reread the Varamyr chapter countless times and I'm still like wtf just happened there! GRRM is brilliant!
I have this uneasy reeling that Bran has been doomed since the first visit of the TEC, and he is making major mistakes because he doesn't know any better. It's mighty odd that Maester Luwin forged a Valyrian Steel link at the Citadel. but he does not do anything to guide Bran and keeps dismissing Bran's wolf / TEC dreams. Luwin tells him they are "just dreams."
As a well-respected and knowledgeable northern Maester, it should follow that he knows a thing or two about warging, skinchangers, and greensight from his studies. Even Osha, the wildling servant knows more about what Bran is going through than Luwin. In the show (not canon, I know) she is visibly shaken when Bran brings up the TEC and she calls them "black magic dreams". She knew the comet meant dragons, and is suspicious of the TEC. I'm starting to wonder why Luwin dismisses the issue when he has a link that only "1 in 1000" maesters possess but plays ignorant to the symptoms Bran is displaying.
The question now is why? What reason would he have for holding out on some of that info? Maybe I'm seeing connections that aren't there, but in the back of my mind, we know he's partly responsible for sending Jon to the wall, carries cyphered Tully letters to Catelyn that Lord Ned Stark was not privy to and watching them burn. Damn, I need WoW SO bad right now.
Couldn't possibly agree more about Luwin...he kinda freaks us out...we can't put our finger on why, but there is something kinda off about him
Lovely people, brilliant.
I hope the Queen/King are well, a Lord commander is competing soon, single combat.
I shall present you the heads of some R+L=J supporters, shall I find them.
Thank you...we are well...good luck and your gifts would be welcomed
Good and valiant ser! I am glad you are well and training to roll some heads. Your presence was sorely missed!
THIS SERIES IS AWESOME. I've needed this!
Love that intro. Gets me everytime. #letsdothis
thank you...its just something we did once and got a really positive response for it and decided to continue
cool...
this is some fantastical shit! i never wanted to make too much a big deal on the name winterfell or the wolf seeing a serpent in the sky. i justed figured winterfell is a good spot to wait out winter. and the serpent was the comet. this is just awesome. the thing is the grr martin said the gods won't be making an appearance in the books.
he said they wont be appearing more than they already have...that seems like a sly admission that we've already met a few, we just didn't realize it when it happened
and thank you
Huh, I always just assumed that the winged snake with a tail of fire was the wolves trying to rationalise the red comet. Never actually thought that it was literally a winged snake...
You didnt explain what you thought “Bran falling through space for years” was...
I think the "winged wolf" is the reason for the vauge yet ominous "there must always be a stark in winterfell."
Oh
My
Gosh
😯
Awesome video guys... 👍
Thank you so much
When will you guys get too popular to reply to each comment?
It's starting to happen now! I feel so bad about it. I have a "regular job" too which makes it so hard to keep up with! :/ talking to everyone is half the fun and it's slipping away. Haha
The Order of the Green Hand I was here since 1,500 subs. I can't wait to see you guys get to 100k good luck.
+Andrew c aww! Thank you Andrew!
i have been around for quite a long time also. i was shocked to see the amount of subs. not because you dont deserve it or i didnt think it would happen, but was shocked it happened quite fast. you are outpacing a fair number of the ASoIF channels, even the ones that are grouping with larger channels to network build.
your content is fantastic and well thought out but never droning or boring but always detailed.
quality on par with Preston, Secrets of the Citadel and History of Westeros.
Thank you so much! That's a huge compliment! We love making the videos and we are glad it shows!!! 😊😊
You know... if you are right about Jon being Ned's only trueborn son, having married Ashara in front of the Old Gods... then once Jon and Ned leave Winterfell, there IS NO STARK IN WINTERFELL.... and THAT is when the great winged snake (named "Winter") awoke and escaped.... and THEN as if to counter this newly awakened force in the world, Dany's dragons were born. I wonder if the hot springs in Winterfell are still hot after this... I can't seem to find any reference to them beyond this point in the text.... other than memories of times past. You are on to something here, I think.
So... is Varamir 6 Skins just a skin changer? and not a warg? Seems like a skin changer would be effected by the other animals... but NOT a warg... there is too much wolf in them, they won't be craven simply by skinchanging an elk or whatever. So... if a warg is always a skin changer as well... it seems they could do it much easier than just a skin changer... but the greenseers can see not only through animals, but through the greenery/plants/trees as well... but it seems this 3rd eye ability of being able to see past/present/future AND very far away... is like the most powerful greenseer... like they can see from all the animals and plants AND ALSO from thin air as well... or no air if they are astroprojecting into outerspace. This "magic" stuff gets a little out there...
King's Landing: Named after where Aegon the Conqueror made landfall in Westeros.
Winterfell: Named after the olace Winter fell in the Battle for the Dawn?
That does make sense
The "how powerful of a skinchanger you are" bit makes me wonder: what designates how powerful a skinchanger is? Birth? Practice? Both?
Love it! Thanks for your videos first. I very much enjoy them! Want to pick your brain because you know the books so well. Just a few questions & right field theories. It goes a-little off topic.. It's very convenient that "Bloodraven" is stuck in a tree immobilized as you will. Can't walk just stuck in a tree for so long. It goes to show.. Jon is mega strong with his DragWolf genetics in the show mainly & if it takes either a Targaryen or Stark to be such a strong warg/greenseer cause of there magical blood. (Mainly for books where we still don't know for sure R+L=J. I know & love the N+A=J but N+A=D Dan backwords there's a lot of similarities.) Also why is it always Bran that went back and made the Mad King go nuts? (Show Theory) Why do most assume he's the only one that changed the past or future? If you could go that far back then Bloodraven could have saved his blood from the Doom of Valyria! How else could the most advanced civilization only have one true family leave right before. Could it not have been a him that warned them) but when he first started Bloodraven did what Bran did with Hodor not knowing. In the book I'm thinking the Three Eyed Crow is the Great Other. (Like what you guys believe) . Also if he's really still Bloodraven why not warn his own kin at the wall? before one of them (Jon) sends the other (Aemon) away with Sam, Gilly & Mance's baby! If Bloodraven is on the side of The Lord of Light wouldn't he try to contact the one to save them from the long night. (Could he have not given his own kin Ameon who had been at the wall for how long? A heads up or Jon if he's a DragWolf!) Where this conspiracy gets crazy... Is with Jon having to battle Bran if Jon comes back in the books. That would be a bitter sweet ending. To close my point. Who was before Bloodraven? Etc. If it is not Bran the whole time then the ones who came before could change the future & past just as much as Bran. In the show specifically it was like The Three-Eyed Crow new that it was going to happen that way. (The Knight King marking Bran!) Or he's a horrible teacher! He didn't warn him about the Night Kings abilities. Just saying the show is it going to be like the books but I believe there's hints. Sorry for this long, drawn out, tin foiled conspiracy. Idk.. Also we're seeing Cersei, Jon and Dany in all the early promos. To a small extent Little Finger, Sansa & Brianne. When Bran is there greatest hope at survival through the long night! I could see Bran having to go to the Isle of Faces this season. Maybe only having a small part until the last season. Again... sorry if you think this is too far-fetched and a waste of their time. lol Just some deep throne theories. Good day! Also didn't proofread this so sorry for anything misspelled and all that! Oh yeah, btw If Howland Reed sending Jojen to Bran cause of the Winged Wolf Greendream. The green dreams are much like Melisandre's visions like you said they could be misinterpreted. Wouldn't Howland have thought the winged wolf would be Jon If R+L=J? Rewatch The Tower of Joy scene... it's like the showrunners were paying respect with Mance in the show looking like Dayne & and you'll notice the other right of the bat! Agian thanks!
This one was so meaty I had to chew it twice. Thank you.
thank you
What kept the snake form escaping from Winterfell earlier you think? Hmm it seems strange that the cold dark dead other would be a flame breathing dragon and weren't the others just created by the children to wipe out the humans. Where does he come into being NEXT VIDEO NOW!!! :D:D:D:D: It is very confusing because there definatly was a dragon at Winterfell Bran saw him but i feel like Ramsay would notice and comment on how he didn't cause all of that destruction. Very confusing...
Also the snake might be ugly but Melissandre said how terrible and unberable it was to look at the great other.
Also i think i remember that George didn't plan on having actuall gods interfering in such a direct way or something but i may be misstaken.
You guys rock as always :D:D:D:D:D
Midget Nipple
the stark in winterfell kept the dragon locked up.
Midget Nipple I personally think that the reason it could only escape after the burning of winterfell could be because 1) the swords were taken from the crypts, and they were believed to be keeping the souls of the old kings at bay, or 2) the fire, along with the fact that a Stark no longer "ruled" (I know bran and Rickon were still there, but another point to be brought up is that they may be bastards anyway, if Ned really did marry Ashara before Catelyn), was the magical concoction needed to free the beast... it could also be an undead dragon, breathing cold flame, still able to destroy, just not melt the stone etc like at Harrenhall... so many possibilities, really, lol, but that's why I love these videos, and the discussions they spark
Oh shieet boi didn't think of that nice catch!!! :D
But wasn't Bran in Winterfell when the dragon was released?
It also seems kind of strange how a dragon could be subdued and buried or something by humans.
Warg is actually "Varg" in Norwegian. And it doesn't mean wolf, per se... It means "criminal." However, in olden times in Norway, a dead wolf was pinned next to the dead criminal (executed). So, Varg can also mean wolf. But it carries the connotation of "criminal." Make of that what you will.
Also, a truer translation of wolf is "ulver."
It would make sense why the skin changing teacher warned about Birds... Flying is quite thrilling for us humans, and that isn't the purer flying of an animal.
I'd have to look back into it, but you notice that Cat picks her children that look more like herself over her children that look like Ned? I don't remember a single scene where Cat even talks to Arya, let alone dotes on her. But she totally mentions brushing Sansa's hair every night versus allowing her handmaids to do it. Bran is one of her favorites, as well as Robb, both with Tully hair. But allows Rickon to run wild, absolutely hates Jon. She never enters the godswood save to talk to Ned. Devout to the Seven. Sansa follows this example and only entered the Godswood in KL because she was meeting Dontos and when frightened by the Hound, she sings the prayer of the Seven.
And those same children that are more Tully, save for Bran, seem to have little to no warging ability. Sansa never once has a wolf dream to our knowledge, or Robb (although without his POV..) Bran does, but I think he's chosen and given this ability. His near death experience and age make him easy to manipulate, but still has Stark blood. Rickon may be too young to manipulate yet, too wild.
Also, the winged wolf may be Jon, but only if he truly had Targ blood. Able to warg a direwolf and a dragon. Or Aegon even, if he's Rhaegar and Lyanna's boy.
Hi guys. Maybe I've missed it, be I don't think you've addressed how exactly did Jojen help free the winged snake. What do you think happened there? Did he free it just by being in Winterfell?
And do you think Howland Reed is also under the influence of the 3-eyed-crow (he sent his own children in Winterfell), or do you think he has an agenda of his own?
Cheers
*"THE BIGGEST SECRET OF ASOIAF REVEALED"* would not be a clickbait...
Hi guys,
I love love love your videos! you're very knowledgeable & have interesting and unexpected views. Its awesome!
I have a small request though, the sound volume when you're talking is significantly lower than the volume of your intro music. could turn up the volume of your talk? I'm listening over speakers & it will be great to hear your voices around the hose and not only sitting right in front of the computer.
thanks a lot/ keep up the great videos :)
If wargs are a subset of skingchangers then all it means is that not everyone is capable of bonding with a wolf. It's pretty much the same thing as bonding with a dragon. Wargs and Dragonriders share the same monogamous trait. Furthermore, I think the degree to which an animal influences the skinchanger is a function of the relative "strength of spirit" of that skinchanger. From a developmental perspective this makes sense in that the skinchanging ability manifest at such a young age (pre-puberty/pre-adolescence) when a person is, for all intents and purposes, unformed/underdeveloped.
I dunno, releasing a dragon serpent without anyone noticing seems somewhat far fetched. When the Boltons retake Winterfell, do the hot springs still work? They'd have to cool for your theory to hold up (and even then, why would an avatar of the Great Other, associated with Ice in the story, bring warmth and breath fire? One would think the opposite). There doesn't really need to be a nefarious reason for the destruction of Winterfell, Ramsay is both crazy and stupid, so burning things that would be useful isn't out of character. The rest of your vids suggest the crow wants Bran for some nefarious purpose, so sending Jojen to help facilitate Bran's journey north still fits, no need for another weird thing with a flying snake.
Your take on Winterfell's destruction is interesting. I am not sure a dragon did that, however. We see that at Harrenhal, the castle walls appear to have been melted with the dragonfire, and while Winterfell is damaged, the walls seem sound, and the Bolton's forces are putting roofs on walls that still stand. Maybe the granite of Winterfell is stronger than the stone at Harrenhal, however, if it was built to withstand such a thing. Ramsay is a mean, cruel and destructive person, so for him to kill all the animals is not hard to imagine. Setting those horses on fire was probably entertaining for him, but it's an interesting idea. Theon's horse. Smiler, burning to death was the thing that started to break him. I just think Winterfell would be described more in the way of Harrenhal if a dragon did the damage, but I shall keep it in mind. Really enjoy the new ideas. Nice video!
I should clarify and say that I think it's possible a dragon that was in Winterfell escaped the castle, but I don't think it set fire to Winterfell. That might be what Summer seen. I have heard it speculated that it was Drogon, but could he really range that far? Maybe by the time he is missing in ADWD, but not now. The First Keep has gargoyles, which indicates dragon binding, in my mind. I think it was the great crash that Summer heard, and that might be when it escaped.
I have always interpreted there was an ice dragon at Winterfell, and relate that to the cold, black pond at the foot of the heart tree. It fit's the idea of the icy breath that seems to be a part of the crypts. But it might be dead and never seen again, or it might return. Could a wolf see an ice dragon as having fiery breath, a river of ice fire? Could the heat of the hot springs keep an ice dragon under wraps for thousands of years?
Fell, or fjell, in old norse is a word for high hill or mountain. I have always liked the simple interpretation for the castle, which we know is built on a series of hills and mounds that were never leveled, and I think GRRM draws inspiration from many languages and we know there are norse myth's at play in this story. A hill of winter, which because of the tunnel's that probably existed before the crypts were built, a place of warm water and heat, was possibly a place to seek refuge in the winter, much as the Wintertown has been in recent winters. People sought shelter from the harsh weather at the Winter hill, or the winter fjell.
I have theorized that the majority of the Stark kids are skin changers, as well as wargs. The only exception may be Jon, as he has only shown a connection with Ghost, so he maybe only be a warg, but in the future might show the ability to skin change. Arya and Bran have shown us they can warg their direwolves and skin change, Arya with cats, Bran with Hodor and crows, and maybe Sansa, with dogs, though dogs and wolves might fit the warg rule, possibly birds. I think the warg blood is in the Stark line and the skin-changer blood is from Cat's family tree, from the Whent's and/or Lothston's. Cat and Ned's kids have some powerful genes. As much as I can't really stand Cat, I think she and Ned were meant to have those kids, and some powerful magic was ignited.
where are you guys? I was thinking you upload videos every Monday, moreover GOT trailer is out, I was sort of hoping to get something special ;) :P.
Warg doesn't mean wolf per se. Ulver is a truer translation. Warg (pronounced Varg) has the connotation of "criminal." Wolves were hung next to executed criminals in ancient Scandinavia.
given GRRM's Affinity for mythology you could also interpret the winged serpent as mix of the migard serpent and fenrir the wolf from north mythology, this also plays in well with the others serving as parallel and the army of the dead guided by loki and hel to fight the aesir in Ragnarok. i think with some digging even more parallels could be made with the starks especially to loki and his motif as a bastard and the staunchness to honor, the worshiping of weirwood trees like the Norse worshiped Yggdrasil, as well as the connection to the physical location being much like early Scandinavia. Im sure with quality of effort you put into your theory and knowledge you could even draw deeper contextual evidence for this surface level connection i have noticed.
and Thank you for the wonderful content.