The Broken and The Sage - 10 Year Anniversary Remaster
Вставка
- Опубліковано 15 лип 2024
- [00:00] Introduction
[05:02] Martial Arts Training
[20:08] Physical Capabilities / Handicaps
[22:55] Force Abilities
[35:51] Armament & Equipment
[38:28] Final Verdict
My first long form Versus Video was Darth Vader versus Grandmaster Yoda, titled the Broken and the Sage. As of Octover 22nd, 2022, that video is now 10 years old. Unfortunately, it has since been blocked due to copyright infringement, specifically music. UA-cam was a much different landscape back then. To commemorate the anniversary, and to return this classic to the fans, I have prepared this remastered version using the original voiceover.
This video, and the match-up in general, has been one of my most controversial, and I will admit that I did deliberately cultivate that. No such thing as bad press. But regardless of what you think about my argument and conclusions, there is no questioning that this was a seminal work, the first 40 minute versus video. The first demonstration of just how far we could take this.
However, in retrospect, I wish I had been more moderate and balanced in both my arguments and my delivery, and built up to my conclusions more gently. Instead, I am having to backpedal from a very extreme position that was predicated on both an unreasonable anti-Yoda bias and my own tendancy towards black-and-white reasoning. In summary, I still believe that Darth Vader would defeat Grandmaster Yoda, but rather than the curbstomp victory outlined in this video, I believe he would be pulling a Teneb Kel and scraping by against an opponent who outclasses him, with his victoy being heavily predicated on Yoda's complacency and arrogance. I regard Yoda as the ultimate example of a big fish in a small pond, and I don't think he would take Vader seriously, instead treating him like Dooku and playing with his food instead of going in for the kill, in the process handing the tactical initiative to Vader.
Though Antoine Bandele's 2017 Rebuttal video and EvanNova95's 2019 Who Win's video were both addressed to my 2017 remake, rather than the original 2012 version, I am well aware that people want to hear my thoughts on them. In my opinion, Antoine's rebuttal demonstrated a pro-Yoda bias that was every bit as extreme as my anti-Yoda bias, with his following Yoda versus Luke Skywalker video making quite clear that Grandmaster Luke is the only character within the Star Wars setting that Antoine is willing to acknowledge is capable of defeating Yoda, and even that admission was loaded with caveats. As for Evan's Who Wins video, I found it to be much more balanced, addressing many of the core points in both my video and Antoine's while also providing his own argument, and I've actually rewatched this video several times just for the viewing pleasure. Evan may have ruled in favor of Yoda, but he at least acknowledged Vader's threat level, and stressed that Yoda would not be able to take him lightly.
Before I move on to the video proper, a few notes on the analysis. It follows my outdated format from the early 2010s, and was created prior to both the Expanded Universe purge of 2014 and my own decision to omit the 2008 Clone Wars animated series from most of my discussions of Clone Wars era characters. As I've discussed before, my vitriol towards the series comes from me being a disillusioned fan who started out liking it. In the case of Yoda, his early seasons appearances were actually fun additions, while his later season appearances, which post-dated this video, came at the direct expense of various significant Expanded Universe storylines that form major lynchpins in my analysis of Yoda. You cannot reconcile Yoda: Dark Rendezvous or the 2002 Clone Wars microseries with seasons 6 and 7 of TCW, whereas the longstanding contradictions between the microseries and Labyrinth of Evil are comparatively minor.
Anyhoo, I think I've prattled on for long enough.
Please enjoy the video. - Фільми й анімація
I feel that the only argument people use in favour of Yoda is the sheer magnitude of his force abilities and the fact that Vader isn't able to match him in terms of speed, completely neglecting the mentality of the combatants, their respective tools, among other things. While they may use flashy terminology, if you boil down what they're saying, it comes out to just that.
At 33 I'll say the same thing I did when I first was introduced to Star Wars at like 6 years old. I love you Vader you're super cool
1. Glad to see a long video again.
2. Remember guys, this is still one man's opinion. You're free to disagree, but don't go to war with each other in the comments. The fandom's a childish mess as is.
Disagree with the verdict but great video nonetheless. Thanks for still making versus videos you're the man!
I will say no way Vader should get the edge on force abilities
@@mattrenner9215 Didn't you pay attention to the reasons he gave for why Vader has the edge as a force wielder?
@@kiambraleflore7537 I did just didn't agree
@@mattrenner9215not in terms of power. They're roughly the same power wise but in terms of versatility vader has done much more than yoda has demonstrated
the other problems with Evan and Antoine's videos was that they used new canon feats for some reason
I have to agree there. Considering how inconsistent Canon is, it's a little weird that they don't pull feats purely from Legends continuity.
Because it doesn’t contradict what is established in Legends continuity version of events? That’s not a problem. That’s a gripe. And before anybody goes saying that I like Disney canon, I never stated that. I made myself clear multiple times in comment threads how much I despised Disney canon and enjoy very little gems that were decent.
@@lapplandkun9273Vader in canon is a raging monster while in legends he is much more calculated and reserved
also, just want to point out, they only use Disney canon for certain characters. Evan has flat-out stated that TCW grievous is inconsistent with Legends in zannah vs grievous (someone fact check me this because its been some time since I watched it). That was the established rule with each versus content creator. Otherwise, he has only used TCW as a case by case basis for certain characters as well as other content creators, such as eeth koth or other council masters like plo koon or kit fisto
Jen has used TCW in his galen marek vs dooku before he made the switch in dooku vs bane
@@wesbradley-taubner9066 such as the maul: son of dathomir comic
Jen should make a dedicated profile on Grand Master Luke Skywalker’s martial proficiencies and weaponry like he did with Palpatine. That would be epic
Yoda vs Vader has been a debate thats been around forever with strong points on both sides, but the way I see it is this: If Yoda believed he was strong enough to bring down Vader, he would have done it.
that's the same with every force wielder though. Arrogant thinking without considering the strength of the other individual. Mace thought he and fisto, kolar, and tinn were strong enough to take down palpatine, only for palpatine to speedblitz and kill three of them, with mace only surviving due to vaapad and his own level of skill
Hang on, I don't think I stated my opinion very well. What I meant was the reason why Yoda never attempted to fight Vader was because he knew he didn't have the strength to do it. By the time the Empire had been established, Vader was too powerful and Yoda was just too damn old.
Jensaarai1, we love you and this is and will always be a controversial but winning decision on your part. Stick to it. With all due respect to the rest of The Council, you have been right about this for 10 years and they have been wrong, pure and simple.
Agreed
I'm glad to see you producing more content Connor, always brightens me up.
So glad to get another one of these! These videos are a classic genre
Very excited to see this Jensaarai! I’ve been watching you for years man your VS series is very entertaining. Keep it up!
Awesome to see a remastered video of this classic xD have been watching this chanel for just around 8 to 9 years (I believe) and am hoping to see such larger videos return 😊
Light only comes from heat. Never apologize for being controversial.
The thing that I find most interesting is that every criticism Jensaarai has for Antoine on his interpretation of Yoda, Antoine also says about the Avatar fans who hype up Iroh and Toph. Here I am caught in the middle, thinking Yoda and Iroh get both too much credit and not enough at the same time.
@Wes Bradley-Taubner The latter case needs to be thoroughly studied. If it took place in Book Two, then none of the others were at full strength nor trying to be, plus Sokka isn't all that formidable against Benders in a one-on-one fight, anyway. Also, Toph's massive ego would likely prompt Aang to be careful not to piss her off too much by stomping her, which he likely could have easily done, lest she storm off out of wounded pride, thus depriving him of an Earthbending teacher. As for that air attack, was he also not making any sound? Was the air he was bending not making any noise? If either were, that compensates for it and therefore makes the feat less impressive.
It's kind of like how people hold ROTJ Luke on a pedestal for beating Vader, but they ignore a lot of internal factors that ensured his victory.
Ultimately, while Toph isn't weak by any means, she's not the juggernaut her rabid fans tout her as, either. She compensated for some weaknesses, but could not overcome others. And, in my personal opinion, since this is on a Versus video, I think RoosterTeeth is one of those groups that overestimated her, though feel free to disagree with me on that.
This is all just my opinion. If you think I'm wrong or too biased, you're entitled to your beliefs, as I am mine.
It’s so good to see anytime you drop a new video. It brings warm feelings to my heart! Been watching you forever and will continue watching forever! Some of the best, most thorough content on UA-cam.
Yours versus series are second to none I love the details you put in to your channel
Dude,where you been!!!
We missed you!!!
Glad to see you back!!!
Love your content. This is making my night shift very pleasant.
Thanks Jen 👍 Nice video to end the night
If you guys are going to make matchup requests for Connor/Jensaari, please done ONE thing before you start asking: Check that Evan, Antoine, GreyJedi91 and Reti4 have NOT already done the matchup you plan to request from Connor BEFORE you ask him to do one. This isn't hard, it just takes a simple 2-second UA-cam search.
They've said multiple times in the past that they have a rule in their friend group where if one person covers a specific fight, the rest of the group members can't do their own versions of that same match. This is to maintain variety across their channels and prevent repeats of the same fights from being done over and over again.
Love this channel
I’m excited
It is so criminal you don't have more subscribers.
I continue to agree with this take 👏👏
Can't Wait for this!
Man... It's been a Long time since this Battle was done hasn't It?
The reasoning here is all rock solid, I don't think it's hating at all to point out Yoda's lack of reach as a limitation, the fact that you can basically just chance him whenever you want without having to worry about dying if he beats it is a huge disadvantage to him. Only objection to be had is Vader's duel with Tsui Choi did demonstrate that he had a really hard time with that particular kind of opponent. Granted this was early on after the suit but this was also against something of a poor man's Yoda and he basically lost. That and Yoda opened with a force clash against Dooku and Palpatine, couldn't exactly beat either with just that but he does have a history of opening with that.
16:35 “Peace has cost you your strength - victory has defeated you.”
As I live and breathe......Good to hear from ya
Welcome back
That emphasis you put on pain Vader experiences... Damn 26:58
I’m not gonna lie, I have always wanted to see them talk. Visualizing it gives me chills. I can just picture vader landing on dagobah, finding the hut, and seeing yoda again. I like to think they might actually exchange a few words, vader becoming disappointed when yoda refuses to fight, yoda telling him he may do as he wishes and that it no longer matters. While I still think vader would kill him, I like to believe vader would make it quick and painless. Would’ve been such a cool way for yoda to go.
I always thought vader killing yoda as well as obi wan would have made Luke’s decision to forgive vader have even more weight.
Though a Sith, Vader is still a warrior. Warriors pay respect and to each other. If Yoda gives himself to Vader's blade, we can expect him to make a quick sweep. But i don't really think Vader would take Yoda like you think. Maybe Vader may still be Vader, or Yoda guiding Anakin back, but Vader won't kill Yoda. Killing Yoda means Vader makes him a martyr, that will just make the work of getting Luke to his side much harder since this is the Jedi Sage Luke is paying such a high respect plus a knowledge pool plus role model for him. Vader needs Luke to follow him, not making him both hate him more and further push him out of his goal. I will think about Vader turning off his saber and turn around with a word "I desire to kill brave Jedi, not a coward and arrogant old man who runs away from his mistakes. Your ideas corrupt the Jedi, just as you cloud yourself. You expect to bind Anakin Skywalker for your own lust for power, that is not the Jedi way. Instead, you made me, Darth Vader. Luke deserves better teachings than yours. Killing you only stains the name of the great Darth Vader, and you know what to do." This is Vader, treating his opposition through total humiliation is no strange thing in Dun Moch. And i wonder how Yoda would react.
@@quangtrungbui675 agreed, ive seen most people see this encounter as an epic fight but i honestly dont think that's how it would go at all. either along the line of what i or u said is more likely to me.
After watching all three vids I think Evan has it closest to right, and I like that your reevaluation of this battle makes it a much harder fight for Vader while still taking his advantages over Yoda into account. For me, Yoda as of ROTS would win 6-7/10 over ROTJ Vader, but anyone suggesting that Yoda stomps is not taking this matchup seriously.
It wouldn't be a stomp either way, though keep in mind that Vader reacts to pain much more seriously than Jensaarai claims: When Luke scored that hit in ESB, Vader howled in agony and flailed about for a few moments. Yoda would definitely be able to inflict that kind of damage, if not more, and, assuming he was trying to kill Vader outright, would swiftly follow this up with a decapitation strike. But that's just me.
@@pyromania1018you mean when he got a light hit because Vader toyed with Luke instead of flat out dominating him because he had ulterior motives? Comics shown that Vader is a tank who could shrug off hits and multiple blows
@@lapplandkun9273 Yes, which is still inconsistent with what we saw. I'm not disputing that Vader could survive such an attack, but he can't *ignore* it. That light hit provoked a reaction, one which Luke could have exploited had he been in a more stable state of mind.
Vader would wipe the floor with yoda. Vader has been stated to be far stronger than anakin, who is in a similar League of power as yoda.
@@pyromania1018vader has survived being buried alive after a whole ass castle collapsed on him. Lightsaber strikes are child's play to him. The same can't be said for yodas durability
Darth Thanaton vs Darth Wyrrlok the 3rd battle of the Supreme Sorcerers
I’ve never seen this argument be made. Yoda has fought dooku, windu, and palpatine basically all speed lightsaber styles over strength. So it makes sense why people say yoda can out flank Vader. For example, Galen marek lower power and skill than yoda but in the novelization his speed was one of the factors for beating Vader. Vader has been out flanked by normal size humanoids who can somewhat deal with vaders strength. I offer this, yoda weighs what? 35 pounds ? In my head Vader has crushed pillars, necks, smashed metal to new molds, and just displayed mind numbing strength in legends. As soon as yoda goes in(which he will it’s his game plan everytime) with a overhead spin or a side to side slash, Vader would just parry and fricking fling yoda into the wall. Which we saw in episode 3 that can potentially knock yoda out simply right there. He can only rebound well so many times even if he sticks the landing against the wall or floor. We’ve never seen yoda fight such a physically strong opponent as Vader and I don’t see his force augmentation helping much since Vader uses the same power to improve his speed to contend with yoda. On top of augmenting his already super human strength. Would love to hear some thoughts on this.
I don't understand what's so controversial about it. Darth Vader would defeat Yoda.... Yoda was OLD and decrepit. His battle with Sidious left permanent damage on Yoda. Clearly. That's why he didn't every try to kill Vader or Sidious during the near 20 years between RoTS and Battle of Yavin. Yoda was hurt during Sidious fight. And I think it was permanent given Yoda's age.
I actually think it would be quite easy for Vader. Vader is suspected to be by the time RoTJ 80 percent of Sidious. And Vader is the only person that Sidious actually fears that could kill him. Sidious is no joke. Especially by the Empire era. And Vader being 80 percent of that is terrifyingly powerful.
So I think Vader would beat Yoda. Yoda is going to do his Ataru stuff and gas out. While vader's Form V and form 2 masterwork will preserve Vader's energy and the fight will eventually go into a battle of attrition and conditioning. And Vader won't be tired. Vader is a tactical mastermind that never gases out. Never. Yoda is almost 900 years old and flings himself around in Form IV.... He will gas out and Vader will walk him down and eventually kill him.
I think it's that simple.
Yoda doesnt' employ Force Lightning so.... As far as force attacks, Vader won't be at risk. Their telekinetic abelites are pretty much even and nulll and void. Neither one his particularly more powerful than the other in terms of Force Push, throw, crush.
Also mention how rotj sidious is stronger than ROTS Sidious by a significant amount
While I agree that Vader wins.. I have an issue with the whole “yoda burns out after ten minutes “ that you say. His fight against darth ballsackface lasted as long as the mustafar fight… one that you claimed lasted anywhere from a half hour to many hours. Yes. That still means that yoda burns out faster than any other Jedi master… But it doesn’t mean that all you have to do is just wait a bit and then punt him. Vader is still going to outlast yoda.. but Vader outlasts everyone. Throw yoda the bone so that Vader looks even better
That's basically the way to deal with yoda. If you have the power to match him like rots sidious you can go on the offense and granted u have more skill than him ud win with an offensive stance also
if Yoda wants to fight Vader in only one match and just going in with no prep like his failure with Sidious? Well, Vader fucks him hard. Unlike the tricky and somewhat mischievious Anakin, Vader is very serious about preparation and planning, scanning, scouting, thinking about the dueling environment like 10 Anakins at the same time. Even a random pinch of sand can be a powerful tool to help him kill Yoda. Even if he faces Yoda, i think he only stands or slowly walks towards him and keeps looking around and see if there is anything that helps him out, a rock or two, a little cluster of cobblestones, some tree branches. Yoda cannot face him in openground, he has to play hit&run with Vader until he feels bored or he outsmarts him with more distractions than him and pound him with falling trees, flying boulders and even redirecting lightning if it is raining and a big lightning comes by. This won't really be an all-out duel, this will be a chess match. Who has more distractions wins. But Yoda should really think his 900-year old ass up, he does not have Vader's highly advanced analytical ability to set up so many distractions like him, he is not gifted with that ability like Shaak Ti. The longer it takes, the better edge for Vader. If Yoda is more intelligent, he can fight in a tight, edgy room with many angles and ledges for his pinball Ataru stuff to overload even Vader's masterful Soresu defense. If he loses to Vader, he is going to face Vader in a open area with no objects for him to leverage his small body and his Ataru blitz when all of them are under Vader's control. When their blades clash, Vader would distract Yoda with everything he has gathered with telekenisis before. Either a little rock or two, or a barrage of branches and small rocks, or even a random pinch of sand right to Yoda's eyes and end him with a saber to the head. And Yoda has a hard time doing two things at once, while Vader has no trouble dancing his blades and pounding his opponents with loose objects at the same time. This is a Fabian-style duel, the more intelligent and oppoturnistic one wins.
I have a theory. Is it possible that Yoda’s back-to-basics, rotation-heavy, Ataru is actually a customized fusion of Ataru and Shii-Cho? This would make sense given that Yoda focuses on teaching younglings and on battlefield engagements. Integrating Shii-Cho into his style combined with his lack of reach would severely hold him back as a duelist, but it would be an elegant and sophisticated solution to Ataru’s weakness against multiple opponents, and Yoda was not a dedicated duelist. There are grounds for comparison with Jensaarai’s analysis of Rahm Kota.
I would add Soresu to that mix as the basis for his style's defensive component, but otherwise I agree completely.
The difference with Kota is that he funneled Shii Cho and Shien into Juyo, as his movements limited to sommersaults, lunges and leaps, but never the aggressive swordplay or melee combat integration of Ataru.
@@Jensaarai1 Thanks for the reply, Jensaarai1. Glad you like the idea. In the Vader/Yoda Redux (which I love btw) you mentioned Yoda using Soresu for defensive bladework, but you described him switching between styles rather than integrating them into a customized method, unlike Vader. My idea about an Ataru/Shii Cho hybrid gives him a little more credit, but do you really think he incorporated Soresu into his dueling? I can't recall Yoda taking a dedicated defensive role in a duel ever.
@@yrooxrksvi7142 I agree. I just meant that Kota is similar to Yoda, not a one-to-one match.
Great Video. So, random question. Your 7 forms of lightsaber combat videos are the best on UA-cam. Was reading The New Jedi Order books the other day and I read about the 3 Rings of Defense. Do you have any plans of making a video about that form? There is very little content on UA-cam about it and I would love to hear your breakdown of the form.
I plan on covering the 3 Rings alongside the Strong, Medium, and Fast styles from Jedi Outcast.
@@Jensaarai1 Alright! I was wondering when someone was going to cover the styles developed in the NJO.
@@Jensaarai1 Outstanding!! I can’t wait to hear your take on the 3 Rings of Defense and the others from the NJO.
This channel is amazing to listen to while I’m working, any thoughts on yoda vs obi wan? Potential for a video?
Could make a versus or martial prowess video on revan. Also love your shit
Been watching this channel for years and I randomly get the name jensaarai in my head and immediately have to come back to check the channel and make sure the big man is still around with the great videos. Love you jensaarai
Cant wait for the premier
Whatever happens, whether the original victor changes or not, one thing should be made clear imo, that this battle would be high dif for both of them
Out of curiosity, how did you find your original audio? I remember you saying in the Darth Vader vs Yoda redux that you lost the original audio? Or was it just the original video?
I went digging through my old data keys.
I stopped keeping my archive on my computer early on because it ate up all my storage space, but it took me awhile to get good at organizing my material.
To be honest I liked your previous anniversary video a lot more. It had a lot more new and interesting information and wasn’t just a copy of the older video.
Are you gonna upload more often on Odysee and bit chute?
also great review
22:54 it's also a lot slower than a lot of Jedi regardless. Also durability is up to question as Vader has been koed or put out of commission by attacks weaker than Yoda's are packing
To be fair yoda can't overwhelm Vader because a lot factors but not like the fight wouldn't not be easy
Are we seriously getting the original video of this? The one where you said Yoda's chances in beating Darth Vader is a one out of six, when that's only valid when Vader uses his full power of which he rarely ever uses.
Now I'm interested to hear your thoughts on vandar tokare. He was another member of yodas species, those slightly taller and two lightsabers.
Howdy, Jensaarai One!
I was curious after watching the podcast about Sidious not being invincible and wanted to know if you could think of the best way to describe Darth Maul's style if he actually developed fully into a Tier 2 swordsman, since its the belief of the Council that both TPM and TCW Maul remains Tier 3. A bit hypothetical, but I thought I'd ask your opinion on the matter.
((Also just thought I'd see what you'd think about either of these matchups:
TPM Maul vs Darth Talon
TPM Maul vs TCW Maul
Anakin and Obi-Wan (AOTC) vs TPM Maul.))
TCW maul is a tier 3. While he packed more raw force power and utilized his force abilities more often, he lost his tactical mind of subtlety and use of misdirection. He just seems to be an offensive dervish who is highly advanced but is easily provoked by bloodlust and revenge. While he does retain the skills of his TPM self, he is less strategic and methodical and prefers to plow through defenses rather than subvert them. His sheer ferocity is what only made him defeat kenobi multiple times in TCW.
@@lapplandkun9273, well, with that being the case, what do you think would be a good description for Maul if he actually did develop into a Tier 2 swordmaster analogous to Anakin, Obi-Wan, Plo/Shaak Ti?
@@cm958 I honestly think to combine TPM strategic mind and prowess, his TCW raw force power, and Rebels measured use of the force. The problem with TCW maul is that he degraded into a beast while with rebels maul he lost hope and any chance of overwhelming Vader or Palpatine because his skills with the lightsaber atrophied, though his understanding of the force improved. TCW maul fell into the same mindset Jen has stated Anakin and a few other sith fell into. That they believed a fight was about who was stronger and he relied purely on his lightsaber training and blunt usage of force abilities to get him by. TPM relied on trickery and subversion while TCW relied on superiority
Are we going to get a Re-upload of Sedriss vs Ventress?
Been asking the same for months. That video deserves a remaster if anything.
In one sense, when Yoda gets going he develops tunnel-vision and as a result he ends up shorting out quickly and could easily be overcome by his opponent if given the opportunity. This is just an opinion of mine while listening to video on how Yoda is a "one trick pony" but I have no doubt that I can be very wrong and have seriously overlooked his more impressive feats and abilities it's just what I'm stating in this match-up.
Hi Jensaarai! This video is so nostalgic for me! I have a question. Do you think there were points in Vaders career where Yoda could have taken a win? Is there a benchmark moment when Vader becomes his most powerful self and can Yoda overcome that Version of Vader? I think Early Suit Vader probably loses to Old Ben, let alone Yoda. What versions of Darth Vader do you see being bested by Yoda or has Vader always been over Grand Master Levels of power.
Yoda could only really beat a pre anh vader. Anything else, is just a stomp, in Vader's favor.
A surprise to be sure, but a welcome one.
I hope Jensaraai does Star Wars vs Non Star Wars characters one day, with 10 years having passed, we're kinda running out of options here!
Nah, there's always more options. I don't think I've seen anyone do a Galen Marek vs Starkiller. The OG vs the Clone. He could put Reborn Krayt against Dark Empire Palpatine, again a matchup I haven't seen before. But still putting Star Wars characters against other IP characters is always fun.
...Galen Marek vs Vin from Mistborn...
@@wanderingshade8383 Antoine bandele did galen vs starkiller
@@lapplandkun9273 Oh, I hadn't noticed. I haven't gone through all of Antoine's vs matches myself. Still, I do wanna hear Connor's opinion on the matter. And there's still the other fights.
@Wes Bradley-Taubner That's a legit opinion, though I disagree a little. Force Storms are crazy OP, but they're not really made for one-on-one matches, and DE Sidious's major power increase is that he can actually use his Force Storm technique now, alongside his youthful clone bodies.
Even if its an unfair fight, I think the thematics of two Sith Emperors who had both been through death and come back out the other side without their physical handicaps and with greater force power is too much of an opportunity to pass up.
@@wanderingshade8383 So for Star Wars vs other IP.
Anakin Skywalker vs Earth 616 Flint Marko (aka Sandman).
Karre (SW Visions) vs Ryuko Matoi (Kill La Kill)
Actually I enjoyed some episodes from SW visions so fuck it.
Karre vs Lumiya. Karre has 6 lightsabers and lightsaber high heels + can breathe in space. Studio Trigger doesn't give a fuck about logic and I love it.
ua-cam.com/video/4NmvIiZ5gF0/v-deo.html
As for DE Sidious vs Krayt its a good idea but its less of a matchup of who is better and more of a question of can Krayt last long enough before Sidious burns himself out to death?
Idk, being textbook in ones application isn't such a bad thing; I mean both Dooku and Sidious said 'naw, f*ck that' when it came to a saber dual with the grandmaster despite their mastery AND knowledge of aturu, and while Vader has dealt with speed folks before, I dont think anyone would put Galen nor the dark woman( or Ahsoka) on Yoda's level: even if its merely a byproduct of force channeling, Yoda does have ALOT of force to channel.
Hello sir, i've favored you over the rest of the verses council. Due to you being true to Star Wars legend. I have a request for you cab you make a verses video of Boba Fett vs. Cad Bane in star wars legends styles please or any verses match with Boba Fett please.
I personally go back on forth on this fight all the time; sometimes i think Vader surpassed all the jedi of old including Yoda in both the force and dueling, and other times i think the Grandmaster is someone only truly rivaled by Sidious and eventually Luke. However i can confirm that youre not hating or being unreasonable in the slightest; youre being fair and calling out both of their shortcomings AND their strengths.
It was a great video 10 years ago and this is a great video now. 👍
He did surpassed all jedi, after all he has 80% of original trilogy Palpatine powers, wich by that time was bastly superior to is revenge of the sith self and by that, superior to Yoda .
@@elfather2045I agree although in the new canon he was able to reach Sidious levels only to be out done by the whole 1,000 death star star destroyer fleet . . . Yeah nice Disney (although I actually do like those Vader comics overall, they are more canon proof he could beat Yoda)
I agree man. Sometimes I go back and forth on who I think genuinely wins in the match up, I've gotten back into legends though and I have a stronger understanding of where Darth Vader stands in power, but Yoda's a bit more vague to me to be honest.
Also, as much as i love Yoda and his dueling style, another reason why i dont think your criticisms are hate is because the whole point of Yoda's character development is that despite his grandiosity, his seemingly limitless power and wisdom, Yoda is a *deeply* flawed man, in the prequels he is a deeply flawed jedi and a deeply flawe warrior.
He has all the resources and power in the world, but hes so complacent and rigid before the rise of the empire that he doesnt change or adapt based on the situation.
Vader had just as many of not more flaws, but mustafar taught him to work around them and adapt based on the situation, Yoda didnt truly do that until after going into exile. And back then, he was too old to be a full combatant.
great remaster any chance of lord scourge vs darth marr of darth nihilus vs darth jadus
Im a day late to the party but its super cool you remade this video as well as your thoughts on the original video, as well as Antoine and Evan's rebuttal video and your 2017 remake. I feel like you undercut Yoda in your original video while Antoine gave Yoda a bit too much credit.
As for my thoughts on the matchup, i think Yoda takes this with 6/10 odds but for a very specific mechanic.
Vader is an extreme mighty glacier and Yoda is an extreme fragile speedster. Typically these archetypes cancel each other out.
But Vader is oversized and bulky while Yoda is a tiny muppet. While Vader has the reflexes to intercept and swat Yoda, his movement speed is not as good and his size makes it difficult to swat Yoda without overextending.
In reference to the Plo Koon Vs Darth Vader matchup do you think Plo Koon's skill set gives him a better shot against Vader than Yoda?
Plo is far too weak to Do anything to vader.
Lol no plo koon would be sliced up
No lol
Have you considered tackling Darth Vitiate vs Darth Sidious
Evan did MANY years ago
Evan already covered that a long time ago. Connor's not going to do it because their group of friends has a rule among them where if one person in the group does a certain fight, the rest of the group can't cover the same match. That keeps variety across the board from all of them instead of resulting in multiple versions of the same match.
@@CompositeCreativity I unno who Evan is but ain't gonna lie Jen would prob break it down real well
@@kynesovos8580 I’m guessing you’re new to Jensaari’s channel? Evan is EvanNova95, who was mentioned during this video, and is one of Jensaari’s closest friends in the Fanalysis group. Evan makes Star Wars versus videos as well.
As I said before, due to the agreement Jensaari and his friends made, he's not going to cover a battle idea that one of his friends already utilized.
19:29 Here is a question though can you prove the opponents Vader fought are somehow comparable to Yoda regardless of Yoda's techniques being textbook.
Anya kuro and Ashoka are speed based fencers despite not being on yoda’s level. The problem is is that yoda is far too textbook and Vader is already familiar with what yoda is trying to do that his speed advantage hardly matters because it has always been a weakness that Vader was able to circumvent
@@lapplandkun9273 1. Yes but that doesn't matter they are not unique to make a difference.
2. Unfortunately for Vader no one he has fought is strong enough or skilled enough to show him properly how Yoda fights.
3. Vader could never every single lightsaber in history and it won't matter
Literal lore statements by palpatine on vaders strength should convince you he can contend with yodas speed
@@staarfinger7322 he has strength not speed
@@397llederson6 by strength I mean overall combative ability. Sidious clearly states he's superior to tyranus in every possible way.
Team Death Match:
Sharad Hett, A’Sharad Hett and their united tribe of Tusken Raiders vs. Maul, Savage Opress and the Nightbrothers
Versus Short:
Komari Vosa vs. Asajj Ventress (before becoming a Dark Acolyte)
Oh gosh a whole army battle? Intriguing! Maul might have dueling edge over both hett's but not by a large margin at all, and I think the tusken Jedi would be able to lead their sand people warriors far more cohesively than the maul and savage might the nightbrothers.
Vader doesn't usually stomp anyone and nobody stomps him.
It typically takes a while for him to break down his opponents and it takes a monumental effort for anyone to break him down.
Yoda could tire out after initially dominating the fight.
This video is so well made
Why so few uploads are rarely new content
One, this was a special occasion since this video is one of his most well-known ones. Two, he has a personal life and a job outside of making these videos, he can't do this shit full-time.
@@CompositeCreativity ok I mean idk his situation it was just a question. Man though makes me wish he got the views he deserves if he could live off doing just thr UA-cam stuff he'd be making solid content. But I've always enjoyed what we do get from him since I was 14 or 15 and now at 25
It's funny how you address that there is bias and that there is a difference between the yoda of dark rendezvous and TCW season 6 yes there is a difference but now to even the playing field when it comes to character and the power scaling you did use Darth Vader all versions of him during the Kyle katarn versus Darth Vader versus Battle there is is a stark difference between Vader and all his tie inns not just for his mechanical suit which coming from that standpoint I agree and understand the suit never changes even though the suit to suit his needs.
What about when yoda fought a dark side user who was stated to have all the power of vader but not the control for 24 hours seems he has the stamina to keep up
When did he fight a dark side user who had power equal to Vader?
The fuck? What are you talking about? He never fought anyone with power equal to Vader.
@@lapplandkun9273 actually it's true , during his exile yoda had an encounter with a dark jedi who was on Vader power level and quite literally handed his ass too him , the fight was so intense witness viewed the landed they fought in was set a blaze apparently
@@nasiquedayes4805vader grows stronger over time. And the dark side User was stated to have all of Vader's power, yet None of his control. Confliction is something that heavely weakens you, take anakin vs kenobi as an example. Vader would still wipe the floor with yoda.
@@nasiquedayes4805its referring to vader of that time period. Not ROTJ vader. Not to mention the entity had no tactical sense of vader
EEEHHH!!!🍺
I like the to think the trinity of characters under Sidious is Yoda, Mace, and Darth Vader. Yoda beats Mace, Mace beats Vader through VaaPad hacks, and Vader beats Yoda.
I agree although I do think Vader could beat Mace through his raw force power, although vaapad would give Mace the win most of the time I'd say
Vader is far far stronger than yoda or mace.
Vaapad won't work on vader. The vaspad effect only works on dark side berserkers like palpatine effectively and vader is the exact opposite unless he's pushed too far and Mace doesn't have the power to do that
@@staarfinger7322 Vapaad was also brought to its limits by sidious, before his fight with yoda. Vader surpassed anakin, who is stronger than rots sidious, already. Vader is simply too strong, too skilled and too experienced to get beaten by windu.
@@djb9267 did u read my comment?
Vader waiting it out is effective if Yoda doesn't hit him do better than anyone Vader has fought
20:42 Cool Anakin already could do that and so could Yoda
It's funny how
Exar Kun versus Darth Krayt
He's not part of the Fanalysis group, but Rico Chico Malico covered that fight if you want to check that out.
Krayt wins
Do Maul vs Ventress
If purely Legends, it'd be fairly close. But I'm betting money on Maul. He's just got a lot more years of Dark Side training under his belt, though one could argue that Ventress has a little more versatility.
Ventress
21:25 You seem to forget the flamethrower thing did put him out of commission though
I genuinely don't see how Yoda beats Vader
Yoda prime win
Anything else Vader will win
Especially this old version of him
Darth Vader beats him NO DOUBT !!!!
Yes Master Yoda is the greatest when it comes to arresting the Chancellor Jedi Master mace wind you could not perceive Darth sidious as he killed siase tinn then agen kolar Mace windu had to drop his restraints with vaapad then he had a sink into it so not only that Mace windu was trumped in force power Mace windu was at a severe speed speed disadvantage until his version of form 7 kicked in what's even more funny is that Darth sidious was actually the first person in history to use the red lightsaber crystal to its fullest capabilities and destroyed kit fisto that's when kit fisto head rolled on the floor and if you don't believe me read the novel Anakin Skywalker saw it for himself that the green lightsaber was fading in and out that's how hard Darth sidious was hitting kit fisto now as far as Mace windu was concerned yes he did invent vaapad but my dear jensaarai1 what is so great about a style that fails you.? The only thing Mace windu ever received was a speed amp and yes Darth sidious through the fight in favor of Anakin Skywalker the fifth of Jedi arriving in the room in the novel clearly states that dark sidious was never in any danger.
What's even more funny is that Mace windu's version of blocking and redirecting the lightning was insufficient he was going to be sucked in to his own blade at least window was choking on the fumes of the lightning Mace windu never stood a chance.
Now in terms of speed in the Jedi Temple when Yoda was practicing lightsaber combat with the other Masters I believe he flew past ki-adi-mundi jumped over Shakti just to hit plokoon and please correct me if I'm wrong about the Jedi Temple Master Yoda is a great lightsaber combat warrior now from the creation standpoint of a lightsaber fighting styles yes Mace windu gets credit for that as well as Sora bulq
I think the simple fact that Yoda didn't go fight Vader with Luke on Bespin says it all. It's also not like he and Obi-wan couldn't have tried ganging up on him during their exile.
29:18 Eh that depends sure he is more knowledge but Vader cannot match Anakin's power or talent. To put things in perspective Vader will have a hard time adapting to Anakin because Anakin would be his fastest and strongest opponent period while Anakin... Is just facing a slower mix of Grievous and Dooku
Yeah, Vader can’t match it because he was deep fried on mustafar. The lore emphasizes that Vader would never match anakin’s potential but that Vader learned from his failures and rebuilt himself. Anakin didn’t
@@lapplandkun9273 Yes Vader learned from his mistakes but it doesn't automatically mean he can do what Anakin can do. Anakin is still stated to have more power and to be basically built as Palpatine's perfect apprentice that he never got until Luke in dark empire
I see you had a lot to say in the comments. But yeah Anakin > Vader.
@@TheNuisanceBird Yeah
@@397llederson6yeah no. Vader is vastly superior to ROTS anakin. Anakin just has more potential than Vader. In a fight, full potential anakin >>>>> full potential vader>> Vader from ROTJ >>>>>>>>> Knightfall anakin>>> anakin(light side).
arthritis? more like LUMBAGO
I completely agree that Darth Vader wins. Great video. But I actually think Vader has a quite big advantage.
My argument is mostly based on style mechanics and fighting style not scaling.
I would argue that Vader has a big at vantage in duelling. I think Vader’s style is a perfect counter to Yoda’s style. The reason is that Yoda’s acrobatic would work against him is because of Vader’s power style. Vader uses a lot of power attacks and if Yoda tried to block them Yoda would be slammed down to the ground. If Yoda is in mid air and Vader would go for a power attack the momentum would slam Yoda down to the ground even if The strike didn’t hit Yoda’s body and only the lightsaber it would still slam him to the ground. Because when you are in the air the gravity will be pulling you down and that power strike will be slam you like a basketball because you don’t have any leverage in the air because you don’t have any Anker to the ground getting rid of your leverage so one strike will power fro-we your block.
So one power strike will slam Yoda to the ground.
Foot work and subversions. This is the ting jumping in a real sword fight is stupid. Im talking about jumping NOT dashing, Dashing is quite practical in a fight. But jumping is stupid in a sword fight because you can’t re-direct your movements or direction in air so you can’t turn until you hit the ground.
And I’ve tested this. I’ve actually sword fight in a trampoline against my friend and what I found is that it’s super easy to doge the attack. When you are jumping you can’t stop until you hit the ground so the only thing I need to do is take 1 or 2 steps to the side and strike at the same time and and your opponent has missed you and you have won.
Obviously my friend can’t jump at superhuman massively faster than light speeds. But Vader can react to the speed and Vader’s duel face lightsaber helps. So in reality Yoda’s style don’t make sense in real life.
So all Vader has to do is take a step to the side and strike and Yoda has jumped in to his lightsaber.
Darth Vader wins. Mid diff
I think you're correct in terms of how things would work if physics in Star Wars were consistent with actual physics, but they aren't and your ideas are contradicted in the source material.
If a side-step was enough to kill Yoda, a Makashi master like Dooku would have been able to do it.
If just smashing Yoda around was enough, the incredible Force-Enhancement of Palpatine would have been able to do it.
Jumping on a trampoline is not directing your movement with a metaphysical galaxy-wide energy field. If Yoda can move a rock, he can move himself and alter his own trajectory.
Yoda can clearly deal with these elements of swordplay, because we've seen him fight swordsmen in the ballpark of Vader's ability who would or did use these tactics, and failed to stop him.
Jensaarai may not like the Clone Wars series, and I agree with most of his points about it, but the Dream Duel between Yoda and Sidious is a much better representation of how Yoda should have been depicted fighting in other material. Using his speed and small size to attempt getting BEHIND his opponent, to strike them where their limbs can't properly defend, the most logical way to use Ataru. This would be the best way to approach Vader if you can't match his strength or Force Lightning his cybernetics down. Hit at an angle that Vader can't use his strength and leverage to stop.
I'm okay with Jen's overall verdict, though I disagree and think Yoda would wear Vader down like Starkiller did. I accept it could go the otherway, and Vader has the skill and power to defeat Yoda, with a victory to either side being a near thing.
@@Kendreyek I know that. But this is just the thing that I just want to say the 7 forms of lightsaber combat DONT make sense in real life from a practical swordsmanship perspective.
And I’m NOT just talking about Physic’s. I’m talking about Swordsmanship. And jumping attacks are stupid in real sword fighting. Star Wars sword fighting don’t make sense in real life.
Star Wars sword fights are NOT like real life. The 7 forms of lightsaber combat don’t make sense at all. The only style that actually make sense is Form 2 but even then they never use proper footwork or stances.
Jumping attacks are stupid in real sword fighting. ua-cam.com/video/ANe0Em52lP0/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/9IjKQHzxUyU/v-deo.html
And if we use in Verse explaintions Vader would still win. There is plenty enough scaling to put him above Yoda.
@@Kendreyek and I argued this with a real life Swordsmanship prospective and I know it’s different in Star Wars. This is the thing from a real life prospective Yoda’s style is stupid but but if I where to fight Yoda/ Yoda would easily win because I can NOT react to massively faster than Light attack’s. Because Yoda is way faster than Light no real swordsman would be able to defeat him.
But if we put Yoda in real life and get rid of the Speed-Scaling and give him only his fighting style/ Skill he would get slapped by every competent swordsman on the planet.
And I will stress this [If you Take away the Speed-scaling].
Because in real life you can’t turn mid air.
Explanations. ua-cam.com/video/9IjKQHzxUyU/v-deo.html
Video. ua-cam.com/video/ANe0Em52lP0/v-deo.html
Scaling is dumb and boring anyway
Yo
Not even Sidious could defeat Yoda in a lightsaber duel, he had to resort to his force abilities to defeat the grand master. If Sidious couldn't do it, I don't see Vader with all of his physical limitations doing it either.
Force abilities. Yoda had centuries to study the force with whatever holocrons and text he wanted. Vader had a few decades and his knowledge was severely hampered first by limitations in what he was allowed to learn, first by the Jedi, then by Sidious himself. Yoda's knowledge of the force blows Vaders out of the water.
In terms of Midiclorians, I will say they are about equal, considering what Vader lost on Mustafar.
Physical capabilities. I would rather have an old man body than a body that is burned and dismembered, and no amount of INTENTIONALLY SUBSTANDARD prosthetics will change my mind on that.
Yoda was the Robb Stark of Star Wars. Mighty warrior that lost the war with off battlefield decisions. Still the mightier warrior on the field.
Sidious is not better than Vader in lightsaber dueling , he is very overrated just because he dominated all 7 forms, but there are even official sources that claimed that Vader is a better lightsaber duelist than Sidious, dosen't matter that Yoda has centuries of studyng the force by that logic he should have crush Sidious.
@@elfather2045 he did he disarmed Sidious of his lightsaber but once Sidious unleashed his force powers Yoda hold his own but eventually was overpowered also need I remind you all the times Vader got bested by speedy opponents who are less skilled and experienced then Yoda by your and Jen's logic if Vader beats Yoda then he should've curb stomped Ahsoka Tano , Galen Marek, and Luke Skywalker, but he didn't in fact he was nearly killed by two of the three whereas Sidious was only bested by Yoda and no one else in my opinion Vader is the one who's overrated in dueling abilities. Also Jen's argument for Vader's victory is just dumb Yoda would not underestimate Vader he never underestimated Dooku, and Sidious ever, and there's no evidence to suggest he did Jen is pulling out bull lies to give an excuse why Vader would win and that alone proves he doesn't fully believe Vader would win because he could find no other reason to say he would win also by his logic Vader would underestimate Yoda too see the problem here his reasoning makes no sense.
@@elfather2045Also Yoda and Sidious are equals prime example their tug of war with force lightning and tutimintis and out of the two Yoda was worsed off due to where he was standing and landed allowing Sidious to telekinetically throw objects at Yoda knocking him off the Senate pod and Yoda knowing the fight was a lost cause fled to Dagobah hence why Yoda couldn't overwhelm Sidious with the force go watch the Yoda versus Sidious scene if you don't believe me.
@@Spider-Fan006I would agree with you accept after seeing the recent canon Vader comics it's clear that Vader and Sidious grew far stronger than Yoda was during that duel. The recent Vader comics shows him defeating a Mace/Yoda level Jedi master after getting his suit. Essentially showing that as he progresses(after the obi wan show and lords of the sith book) he's surpassed even his old master of the order and Grandmaster.
@@Spider-Fan006literally each time vader got bested he wasn't at his rotj peak which this vader is
And in another video while your theory of Darth sidious took kit fisto lightsaber to fight Luke Skywalker no it was not kit fisto lightsaber because Darth sidious broke it it might have been siase tin.
Actually, I thought it was Agen Kolar's lightsaber.
He was the one wielding a blue blade.
We need Yoda vs Exar Kun, Darth Revan, Darth Kryt or Anakin
out of al those i think Yoda V Krayt has the best chance of being interesting as I don't think Kun has too much of a chance because his shock and awe tactics are so similar to what yoda is trying so Yoda will quickly sus it out and counter beating Kun in pure ability rather than suprise tactics. Revan I know little about over all beyond his victory over Vitiate which definitely puts him in contention. Krayt on the other hand specifically during Vector would be a very evenly matched and i cannot say for certian who would win Krayt at time of final death however Krayt wins. and Yoda V anakin (Battle of mustafar) i would think would play out like any old man V shien/Djemso master the most famour of this type of confrontation being anakin V dooku in episode 3 yoda would last ALOT longer than dooku and has a serious chance of winning but attrition is his enemy and eventually Yoda will need to disengage or succumb to fatigue
@@volrosku.6075 Revan would contend as a duelist but Yoda outclassed him, if Revan used the force he might be able to win in a manner similar to Sidious but Yoda is even better suited to fighting a force duel with Revan, being at least equal or more powerful. Anakin for as badass as he his would only force Yoda to bring in the force and Anakin's middling defense would likely let Yoda just kind of blitz him there. Krayt, Krayt would honestly sort of kick Yoda's ass, he has the same physical advantage as Vader, without the speed or agility damage. Just as much experience as a duelist remember HUNDREDS of dead opponents, his form 6 mastery analogous to Yoda's mastery of all 7, and an even more diverse and similarly deadly array of force powers it would be an insane duel but Krayt is basically Yoda, Sidious, Windu, Vader, and Luke mashed into one badass Vong formed monster
Against kun yoda would win. Revan is tricky to say though i believe he has more power than revan. Krayt would beat yoda. Anakin just gets washed by yoda. Vader is wayy stronger than anakin and even he'd have a hard time beating yoda
Vaders abilities being limited by his physical handicaps is purely fallacious as sidious claimed vaders limitations were purely mental and vader being Hamed by simply conducting force lightning is borderline illogical. Vader couldn't use lightning, no but it would make more sence that the reason was because of the suit had builrlt in insulators like vader would feel the power course through as he uses the technique but nothing would come out. Plus the suit focused vader rather than distracted him it's says in his novel and is in fact one of the most famous quotes regarding vader. Pain also fuels ones connection to the dark side. The same goes for you da with old age 5he force simply negates those limitations
Couldn't agree more, especially since the new canon Vader material essentially states he surpasses Mace and Yoda level. I could actually see Mace being slightly more of a challenge due to his unique form
@@spicefactor9604 no such statment exists
@@madslayer4197 have you read the Canon Vader comics? He has feats that surpass Yoda and Mace, even just after getting his suit. So imagine the power difference at his peak prior to and during a new hope. Ofc in legends I don't think this exists so maybe that's what ur coming at this from
@@spicefactor9604 let's see it or your a liar. I'd say vaders roughly on their level but surpassing them not a chance
@@madslayer4197 Don't take my word for it, it's discussed extensively in a Vader power level video by key issues (all of his sources r cited so I'd just go watch that). But the Marvel canon Darth Vader comics show it as well.
If we are talking Legends Versions then Yoda should win in Canon Vader takes the honor and bases yeah.
I don't get this dumb perception that Disney Vader is somehow stronger than EU Vader based on nothing
@@yrooxrksvi7142 Because in Legends when you loose lots of flesh you lose the force potential you once had while in Canon you could have the same potential even if all is left is your head and body but no arms and legs yeah. Sidious and multiple other statements say that had Vader not got beaten up on Mustafar in Legends then he would be became more powerful then Sidious And Yoda combined and Grandmaster Luke Skywalker was what Legends Pre Suited Vader was meant to become yeah.
@@yrooxrksvi7142in Disney vader didn't lose any strength. In legends he lost a lot it due to his burns
@@staarfinger7322 Which doesn't make a spit of sense, considering he got brutalized by Palpatine right before RoTJ. And he can't use lightning. And was nearly beaten by Cere Junda and a weaker version of Obi Wan IN THE SAME YEAR. Whereas the "inferior" EU Vader kept fighting against Jedi Masters up until 1-0 BBY.
@@yrooxrksvi7142 did u forget vader at his peak in rotj despite being conflicted overpowering sidious physically. Secondly the vader that lost to obi wan wasn't anh vader who bested Ben kenobi and Ben kenobi is the strongest version of obi wan. 3 Vader clearly is inferior to palpatine force power wise and vader literally has literally stated to be stronger than kar vastor one year after being suited and kar vastor is stronger than Mace windu and windu is no.2 in the jedi order.
And as far as Luke being the only one that can beat Yoda yes Yoda is unbeatable at the time of revenge of the sith Darth sidious was unable to defeat Yoda and vice a versa but when we take a close look at attention to detail which we should all do by now when we listening to you is that Yoda is superior and lightsaber combat to any other swordsmen other than Luke Skywalker because not only in the movie that Yoda was getting the better of it but in the novel Yoda disarmed Darth sidious of his lightsaber forcing palpatine to use TK an lightening for a terrain advantage now later on Darth sidious grew in power and Luke Skywalker and lei I had to open up a wormhole and put Darth sidious spirit in there so if you want to get technical the chancellor is actually unbeatable.
But at the end of the day Luke Skywalker I agree is only one that could beat Yoda plot device or otherwise but again if we're getting technical yes with the versions that you are stating yes Darth Vader does beat Yoda with the specific Yoda you're using
He lost to sidious. If he didn't leave he would've been killed so idk what nonsense you're speaking
@@aaronjames8547 he won the lightsaber duel but lost the fight
@@shivaramoutar5333idk if that's more of Sidious genuinely being disarmed or him being a bit arrogant of his own abilities and mocking Yoda. Cuz Sidious did not take lightsaber combat very seriously despite being extremely skilled, preferring the force
@@spicefactor9604its sidious being disarmed genuinely. Sidious isn't a skilled lightsaber duelist. He's more of a force user
@@staarfinger7322 I agree Yoda probably has a slight edge in dueling. Force power definitely goes to Sidious, and the dueling is close. Sidious was definitely skilled he just preferred the force. (It wasn't so much that he was unskilled but more so he had ideological sith reasons for disliking dueling. As sith Lords view force powers more favorably)
Vader would easily win. Anakin is said to be the strongest Jedi in the prequel Era, being in the same realm of power as yoda. Vader grows far stronger than anakin and should therefore easily win.
No he should not even if he was stronger he is slower by a mile
@@397llederson6not by a mile. He's 80% ROTJ sidious who's stronger than ROTS Sidious and rots sidious => yoda from the same movie. Also dooku could contend with yodas speed and vader is just much much much stronger than dooku
@@staarfinger7322 No he is not Dooku and him are even at best with Dooku having far better showings of speed and power
@@397llederson6 umm sidious literally states vader is superior to all his previous apprentices. I'm pretty sure sidious knows dookus 100%.
@@staarfinger7322 When he more than once mentioned Vader disappointed him
At least in the beginning of the video you mentioned your huge biases. You're off base in so many areas of your analysis it would take me paragraphs to break it down. So I'll just say I disagree
So you disagree that he even admits that he was biased in his anti yoda sentiment in the video?
I think you are being a bit harsh on Antoine by saying he would only admit to Yoda losing to Grandmaster Luke. He seems willing to put others than just Luke over Yoda, even saying Revan or Bane would have a chance at victory in the past.
He gave it to Luke 10/10, I'm sure he would give it to Prime Palpatine over Yoda, given that he said that ROTS Sidious vs Yoda was a circumstancial draw and that Palpatine grew stronger afterwards. He has also called Vitiate arguably the greatest sith, so he may give it to Valkorion too. Maybe even Caedus or Krayt, although he has not really featured those characters.
On a different note I think it would be interesting if you were to feature Streen from the New Jedi Order in the future. His backstory actually holds some similarities to both Lord Odion and Saesee Tiin with him isolating himself from others because he could not help but sense their thoughts.
His seemingly strong affinity for telepathy and special talent for essentially airbending, even calling forth tornados, would make him a unique combatant to discuss.
Yoda doesn't have more magnitude nothing in the lore backs this, pleasee stop making stuff up and back your conclusions with showings and statements. Yoda got overpowerd by rots sidious and vader overpowered rotj sidious at his weakesr while also tanking far stronger lightning that oneshotted yoda
A mentally destroyed vader who was between worlds and traumatised which limited his force abiltiles at the time of the passage about him being less powerful shortly after mustefar on kashyyk vader crossed a new threshold of power and that was 25 years pre prime. A year after rots Vader was far stronger than kar vastor who was far stronger than mace this was vader massively pre prime. Vader also overpowerd rotj sidious a far stronger version than the one that overpowerd yoda and this was vader at his weakest. Vader is stronger in the force. Vader was also far above dooku because he was a threat to rotj sidious while dooku was Nothing to a far weaker sidious. Vader also surpassed Anakin who was already above yoda.Vader wins
Vader didn't overpower sideous in rotj, he blindsided sideous and killed him before he had a chance to respond.
@@BennyBoy661well I beg to differ that isnt backed in the source material. Palpatine was fighting back and focused his lightning to kill vader. Sidious also agreed vader could overpower him.
Although it would not have seemed possible, the outpouring of bolts from the Emperor's fingers actually increases in intensity, the sound screaming through the room. Luke's body writhes in pain. Vader grabs the Emperor from behind, fighting for control of the robed figure despite the Dark Lord's weakened body and gravely weakened arm.
-- Return Of The Jedi Movie Script
As the Emperor continued to strike Luke with his barrage of Sith lightning, Vader struggled to his feet. One leg was broken, and the other wasn't working right.Moving awkwardly, he shifted his bulk to stand beside his Master. On the floor, Luke writhed in agony, and was on the verge of death as he groaned, "Father, please. Help me."
It took all of his remaining strength to seize the Emperor from behind, lift him off his feet, and carry him to the open elevator shaft. The wretched Emperor continued to release lightning bolts, but they veered away from Luke and arced back to crash down upon him and his insurgent apprentice. The lightning penetrated Vader's life-support suit and electrified Anakin's organic remains, but he lurched forward until he could throw the Emperor into the elevator shaft.
Palpatine screamed as his body plummeted down the shaft. Still trapped within Darth Vader's armor, Anakin collapsed at the shaft's edge, but heard the explosion of dark energy that consumed the falling Emperor.
-- The Rise And Fall Of Darth Vader
Yet the Emperor still physically struggled against him:
Palpatine struggled in the grip of Vader's unfeeling embrace, his hands still shooting bolts of malign energy out in all directions. In his wild flailing, the lightning ripped across the room, tearing into Vader. The Dark Lord fell again, electric currents crackling down his helmet, over his cape, into his heart. Vader stumbled with his load to the middle of the bridge over the black chasm leading to the power core. He held the wailing despot high over his head, and with a final spasm of strength, hurled him into the abyss.
-- Return Of The Jedi
Yes, Vader remained strong in the Force, but strong enough to succeed me? Never. Granted, he was strong enough to kill me. But that only lasted for so long.
-- Jedi vs. Sith: The Essential Guide To The Force
Where In rots is the evidence for the claim yoda got overpowered. Because in the novel yoda is noted to have disarmed sidious during their lightsaber duel.
I much prefer his 2017 redux vid
@@devontaelafleur3841 Although Yoda held his own for much of the duel, in the end the Sith bested him. He realized that continuing to directly confront Palpatine would mean failure. Defeated, Yoda slunk away into the shadow's of the Senate chamber's cavernous depths, leaping into a waiting getaway speeder piloted by Bail Organa.
Source: The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia
Vader loses badly his force feats are below Yoda and his best are only comparable to Yoda in mid day. His dueling feats aren't impressive either considering so many Jedi compete with Vader who are just normal or below average Jedi
Don't you love it when someone has no clue how versus matchups worked and didn't watch the video? Me too
@@lapplandkun9273 I have seen versus match ups it's still inaccurate
L + ratio
More often than not legends Vaders fights Jedi above the average the clone wars produced, given most fought hella hard to survive the purge from the start. A lot of them would use prep time in the form of traps or reinforcements along side fighting the sith lord as well.
@@GreaterGrievobeast55 Yes but how many were council material or above say Kit Fisto or Agen kollar
Very detailed and impressive argument and i agree and understand this as a complete outcome im in complete agreement if a bit more skeptical about how much yoda is a threat to vader