Captain Pellaeon is one of the most underrated yet consequential imperial characters in the whole EU. Ultimately rising himself to the rank of Grand Admiral and leading the fractured Empire back together and into peace with the New Republic. His presence in the trilogy is very endearing to read as he's basically the Watson to the Thrawn's Sherlock Holmes.
Pellaeon is straight-up my favorite EU character and one of my favorite SW characters of all time. He was indeed the Watson (directly inspired by Watson too IIRC), and just like Watson, once his mentor was gone he tried to emulate him, but in his own way (one of the reasons I love both characters so much). Also like Watson, Pellaeon had a hidden wisdom to him that I think even he wasn't fully aware he had. Kept trying to pass off power to others but eventually decided he had to make a call to save the Remnant by calling for a truce (of course he still got Moff approval but it was still Pellaeon's most decisive moment regardless). That moment where the New Republic and the Imperial Remnant signed a peace treaty and allowed individual systems to choose their allegiance is something that has always stuck in my mind as a defining character moment for him, as well as a massive turning point in the EU as a whole. The end of the long, long war, with neither side obliterated. Which is not what I expected to happen but I loved the twist. Pellaeon was also the epitome of Zahn's more nuanced take on the Empire, even moreso than Thrawn IMO. Even though he fought for the villains, I can't really call Pellaeon a bad man. Hardly a saint by any stretch, but there was a lot of good and bad to him that made him so compelling.
Think what you want about the ST, but let's not lie to ourselves; the Thrawn trlilogy is FAR from as perfect as we remember it! I read the books when I was in high school, they were over 10 years old by this time, but by God I loved them! So much better than the prequels! But in retrospect, I have started to see the flaws. For one, Joruus is a weak antagonist!
Well, yes, he is. He is secondary antagonist, calamity to OT heroes but mere issue for Thrawn. And even by EU scale, he is probably weaker than Night Sisters @@Chemical_Argentum
@@mrzirak792 Night Sisters are not the OP joke of a faction in Legends that they were in TCW. In fact, they aligned with Warlord Zsinj in Legends, who is objectively a lesser threat than Grand Admiral Thrawn.
I believe the most chilling part about Thrawn is that he seems like a pretty chill dude. Like if he invited you on the Chimara he would probably give you a glass of wine and want to talk about his paintings.
Weirdly enough he's drinking beer out of a mug in his first scene. Feels very strange. Like Zahn was gonna have him drinking wine but thought it was cliche.
@@diegeticfridge9167 I'll add Junior Jedi Knights to the recommendations. It's aimed at younger readers, but it's where Anakin comes into his own as a character.
This book is the anchor of the Expanded Universe. Everything starts here. I argue the prequels and sequels might not have been made if this wasn't a success.
It's hard to argue against it. There's a reason why Timothy Zahn was referred to as the man who saved Star Wars by several publications (e.g. "The Secret History of Star Wars" by Michael Kaminski) and fans alike. The Thrawn trilogy was a success and rekindled wider interest in Star Wars back in the 90s. After that the Special Edition was greenlit and the prequels followed a few years after.
Just a slight correction about Mara: the books acknowledge that she never actually appears in the movies - or more accurately, not at the Sarlacc pit (there have been plenty of speculations about who was portraying her in Jabba's palace under the assumption that she was depicted there, but the books were written before the Special Edition of the movies, and most of these came up in the wake of the SE release) - but they use a pretty clever way for doing it. For those who do not already know, I will not spoil anything, but I will say this: the realization of it has quite the bone-chilling effect on Luke, all because just one little detail change could have made the rescue of Han Solo go completely differently and very likely disastrously for them (and yeah, this is a way of bringing up the concept of the butterfly effect).
Back lore with Mara Jade, she brag that Palpatine & Vader had their agents on every major ship the Rebelion had to kill off the command staff. Later they rolled that into Order 66.
One thing Zahn and later EU writers arguably did a good job with is balancing the potential threat of the villains against the risk of undermining everything the heroes accomplished in the OT. Thrawn and others manage to present a real and believable threat, but almost always from a position of relative weakness: the Rebels won the Civil War, the New Republic is in place and the heroes are now defending a position of strength against new bad guys. This is hugely important because it lends weight to the worldbuilding and the events that happened previously, including in the movies. Disney does the opposite, essentially wiping away the Rebels‘ victories, offscreen, with the stroke of a pen, in order to put the protagonists into the position of having to overthrow the Empire *again*. A big mistake, which the EU generally avoided. In the Thrawn trilogy, the narrative tension doesn‘t come from the overpowering might of the galactic empire, but simply the threat that Thrawn might destroy the Republic and undo all the hard-won success of the heroes. But he never does and he doesn‘t have to. The threat that he might is enough.
Just wanted to add to your points of Zahn's character exploration: As far as i'm aware, Mon Mothma's only appearance from that point was in RotJ, and it was kinda brief too. But we got to see her take on the role as leader of the New Republic, the struggle that the politics entailed, and how she eventually swallowed her pride for the benefit of all, allowing a certain Corellian general to save the day. Sure, she still was kindova minor character, but she got some characterization and background added to her than merely "Rebel leader". Also, i've never wanted to punch a character more than Councilor Feyyla. Masterful writing from Zahn. And a great video! I really STRONGLY recommend for people who haven't read the Thrawn trilogy to do so. Afterwards, if you want to re-savour the story, try reading the graphic novels. They're fantastic. (One more thing- I totally agree that the Noghri had such a fearsome and awesome design via the graphic novels. I personally prefer the version in Dark Force Rising.)
West End Games HAD set up that prior to the Emperor's death Mon Mothma was the absolute unquestioned dictator of the Alliance. And the late marvel stuff sorta implied her power was only slowly reducing from that after Palpatine died. So, that's probably where Zahn got the idea of Bel Iblis breaking off, and from there he decided to explore Mon Mothma's character.
I do sincerely think this stuff was far more interesting and better than what Disney has done Just like the Halo books are the holy grail of the original Halo story
It's worth noting that there was already a series of books before Timothy Zahn's Heir to the Empire trilogy that were building up the post-RoTJ (the Star Wars: Rogue Squadron books), but the first Thrawn trilogy was the first time we got to see 'the gang back together'. The fact they had Thrawn (a non-force user) with Joruus Sabbaoth as a secondary antagonist just makes the trilogy all the more memorable/interesting than the Disney dreck we ended up getting (and that's just on the villain side).
The only “series” of novels before the Thrawn trilogy were the Han Solo/Lando Calrissian short stories. The first Rogue Squadron book was released in 1996, three years after The Last Command.
@@peternotyou8192 I stand corrected then. Been burning through the audibooks/ebooks for the EU o so I haven't been really checking the publishing dates. My point about 'the first time we get to see the gang back together' still stands tho, correct? I've heard there were some weird comics in the 80s, but that's about it.
@@internetzenmaster8952 that part is indeed correct. It’s also worth noting that interest in SW was waning quite a bit when those books released. We had a few god-awful shows and movies about Droids and Ewoks, and we did get West End Games massively expanding on the lore with their tabletop RPG in the late 80’s (hamstrung somewhat by the Satanic Panic). The Thrawn trilogy signified the franchise coming back in a big way.
@@peternotyou8192 Not just the Thrawn Trilogy, but the first few runs of Dark Horse's Star Wars comics. The Marvel comics from the 70s and 80s were basically a joke, and almost always written by writers who wanted nothing to do with Star Wars, or worse, wanted to make it part of the Marvel universe, so it was a big deal when (the real) Tales of the Jedi came out in 1993.
@@TheOwneroftheIC I liked Mary Jo Duffy's later era ones, where she and the artist crammed it full of late 70s early 80s anime references like Lando being disguised as Captain Harlock, (But with white hair to compliment his brown skin in a cool inverse colorscheme)
And then everybody would have cried they just copied somebody else work and ruined it because movies can never be anywhere near as good as the books. You know this is true.
3:44 Leia is what amounts to the Secretary of State for the New Republic. Also, the NR wasn't really "larger" than the Imp Warlords, what made them lose was more that they were using resources to fight each other instead of the NR, giving the NR time to consolidate and start their meticulous campaign of eliminating one Warlord after the other.
Leia did serve as head of state for a time after Mon Mothma, but stepped down just about the second there was a viable replacement. Gavrissom took over after that. After "Puffers" came everyone's favorite Bothan, I believe.
WE haven't forgotten you EU! Great video, was born in 92' so after discovering the OG Trilogy on VHS (man that makes me feel old, older than I am) I was introduced to the EU & was HOOKED. A few yrs back I got back into collecting (TVC 3.75!) & really have fallen back in love with SW. My job since starting 4-5yrs ago has really beaten me down, draining the force from my body, creating a wound in my life. Yet, SW has helped, I've fallen in love with this galaxy again, & it has really helped in dark times. Glad I found this, I hit subscribe right away, & plan on staying!
Thrawn was incredibly smart. If Palpy had just listened to him and used Death Star resources on the Imperial Fleet, the empire would have never fallen.
One of the aspects of the original Sequel Trilogy was that unlike Vader or Palpatine, Thrawn wasn't a force-user, and unlike Tarkin, wasn't relying on brute force but on pure intellect. Even more, he acted not only as a strategist, but also as a teacher, teaching his strategies and his style of command to his subordinates. Thrawn's death is arguably one of the greatest mistakes Zahn could have made. We should have had an Empire led by the Grand Admiral, no matter if it was the Empire Remnants, the Empire of the Hand or something else, but the Grand Admiral should have had a true chance as Heir to the Empire.
While I agree that his death was too soon and he should have had more stories, I can also understand the need to end his with the trilogy. That said, I do like his death in that his passion and respect for order are so great that his last thoughts are to admire the efficiency and cleanness of his assassin's work.
Thrawn had to die to end the story. Hear me out. The reason that we all love him is that he was so damned good at what he did. He used the psychological blind spots of his opponents to absolutely destroy them while they had no way to conceiving of how they were losing. He was so good at this, that he stands out as a villain for not being defeated by the protagonists. He lost due to his own psychological blind spot. In a way, he defeated himself. In another way, he was the victim of forces that he could not perceive, but were indirectly the result of the protagonist's actions. It perfect symmetry in writing. It was poetry.
When I was 12, I was already a huge Star Wars fan. As I waited for the prequels to finish, my dad came up to me one day and offered my the Thrawn trilogy, in a nice hard cover set. I skimmed them, saw no pictures, and said, "Thanks dad, maybe later." A few years later, I finally went and read them; and immediately regretted not reading them earlier. Everything about them is SO GOOD! The new characters are great, how the old characters grow and change feels real, the threats are new but still familiar, everything is just FANTASTIC! True it doesn't 100% line up with the prequals, but 95% is still a passing grade. To me, this is what happens after Return of the Jedi, this is my Episode 7, 8, and 9.
Plus a early computer game in the 1990s, Tie Fighter, subtly reinforced Thrawn as a great and enriching character in the lore and story telling. From a more slow paced, as well as more rewarding, gaming era.
90s Star Wars will forever be my only true Star Wars. I first saw Star Wars and got into the EU in 1995, but already 4 years later it was like the prequel era was a completely different beast from what I had come to love so much.
I'm playing TFTC (Tie Fighter Total Conversion based on X-Wing Alliance with some graphical updates) and it's bringing back all those memories of playing X-Wing, Tie Fighter and X-Wing vs. Tie Fighter back then as a kid. Even got my modern HOSAS running with it.
That said, the voice for thrawn in TIE Fighter is probably the worst he's ever been. Marc Thompson's EU voice>Robin Atkin Downes inpersonating Marc Thompson for Empire at War>Mikkelson=Wedge Antilles(a joke, Wedge's actor actually did the original abridged Heir to the Empire)>Marc Thompson impersonating Mikkelson in the Disneyverse books>TIE Fighter.
I've enjoyed so many books from both the old EU and new Canon. But there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that the original Thrawn trilogy are the best Star Wars books ever written. I listened to the audiobook and it really felt like I was watching actual Star Wars movies. They brought me into the universe like to other books.
To be fair... Thrawn has had three great trilogies. A great trilogy of great trilogies. You've got the Legends Heir to the Empire trilogy which kicked off the whole EU/Legends, and you've got the Canon Thrawn and Thrawn Ascendancy trilogies that are some of the best Disney era Star Wars content, regardless of what you think about Disney's handling of Star Wars as a whole. All three of these trilogies shine bright thanks to Timothy Zahn's phenomenal writing.
What is this "Canon Thrawn" you speak of? Because the only "canon" I know _is_ the EU. Since when are we treating shitty fanfics, written by a bunch of hacks, who do not understand the first thing about the lore, as "canon"?
Great video. Even though the evil Empire that owns Star Wars has largely disavowed the EU, cannibalizing the IP of better characters and better stories for their version of Star Wars (which is frankly, not very good, and pales in comparison to much of the EU) there is real value in, not only the Thrawn Trilogy, but the EU as a whole. I’d encourage you to keep up your exploration of the continuation of Star Wars (before Disney got their grubby hands on it) but I suspect that you’re way ahead of me. I’d love to hear what you think about the New Jedi Order series, or the Jedi Academy trilogy
This is the first series I read as a kid, and I LOVED it. Disney really screwed up by not using these EU stories. Thrawn was such a compelling character. IMAGINE an Imperial Grand Admiral telling you, “Hey, that was actually a really good try…you’re promoted.” NOT NORMAL.
There’s another thing that encapsulates Disney other than greed and incompetence “Pride”, they have stonks of it that they had to make the EU non-canon
I had a lot of pacing issues with The Thrawn Trilogy, especially with the second book. HOWEVER. It had a vision and stuck to it, and that alone makes it better than Disney. It wasn't just a rehash of the original Trilogy, telling its own story and standing just fine on its own two feet. Was very happy to have read them.
I read these books when they came out and I loved them dearly. I have passed them onto my boys and have never shown them the three 'sequels' they made. They have seen Rogue One and seen a few of the TV shows but I never watched the last film and only half of The Last Jedi and I knew it was garbage. Disney had the opportunity to make a Trilogy based on these books that would have really renewed and revived the world of Star Wars. It was the perfect blueprint to expand into the the Star Wars Universe and bring back new excitement for both the old and the new series. Instead Disney cast it aside and did their own dumb thing. They could have saved so much money and time just sticking with these books. Thrawn was my all time favorite villain for years. He was so clever and strategic and calculating that it was always a joy to read these stories. Great video, by the way.
Just from hearing you read some passages of dialogue I can tell Thrawn in the books has this aura of tactical expertise that I feel didn't come across as strong in Rebels or Asohka. This video has convinced me to go read the Thrawn trilogy.
I am in on that ride right now and have finished the first book. Great ideas, good and logical plot development(s), likeable new and well familiar old characters are all present. Basically, these books do what Disney Wars almost never accomplish. Continue the Original Trilogy's storyline in a logical and believable way. Without preaching messages and with lots of respect and care for the Star Wars universe, I might add.
The 20th Anniversary Edition audiobook narrated by Marc Thompson is the closest to an actual "movie experience". I can highly recommend it.
6 місяців тому+5
It's great because it is well-written, with care and attention, respect and dare I say it love, with great characters, story progress and high yet believable stakes. And this is because it was not the creation of an evil witch, a soulless homunculus and a jibbering troll.
Very much enjoyed this video. Even tho I have the audiobooks and have been listening a bit lately, this was like rediscovering the books in a way. Thanks for making it.
His cargo can't be ysalimari. Their compounding Force bubble would have prevented Sabine and Ezra from Force-jumping onto the ship. Especially with that many in such a small space.
In Ledgends hyperspace was unconnected to the Force. Force suppression did not affect hyperspace travel. These are Legends stories. Dave Faloni has no input here.
15:43-16:35 My reaction to the Rebels (and Tales of the Empire) version of Ruhk was something like “Really? That’s the best you could come up with when adapting this character?”
Great video bro, about half way thru and never would’ve guessed this vid has under 100k+ views and your channel under 1000 subs. Very good quality, this is more personal but a lot of narrators don’t keep me interested through the duration of the vid. Keep it up man love the vid and style
Such a great covering of the thrawm books, really doing them justice (unlike rebels, an i to some extent like rebels). Keep up the great work! Can we expect more exposé, long, meaty videos like this?
If the Chimera was transporting that many ysalamiri in the Ahsoka show then Ahsoka, Ezra, and Sabine wouldn't have had access to the force during the first season's final battle in the fortress, nor would the great mothers. Points for an original theory, but it doesn't seem nearly as plausible as the idea that they're transporting night sister corpses.
Great essay! I felt like I'd been gut-shot watching Ahsoka because it pretty much meant Filoni had poached just enough of the Heir Trilogy to stuff it up and ensure that Heir To The Empire in full was ruined for the Disney reign. There had been huge speculation about Ahsoka being the slingshot vehicle for Favreau/Filoni to go around the ST. But it isn't. However, there is a great fan film by DarthAngelus, Heir to the Empire, which I still watch every few months. Gives me hope. ;)
2 Minor point in defense of Vader: Vader doesn‘t just lead through fear, he also leads from the front, which is crucial. Unlike Palpatine or most of his other subordinates, (or Thrawn for that matter) Vader is regularly in the thick of the fight, personally hunting down the Empire‘s enemies and in the process putting himself in the same danger (at least theoretically) as his men. In a lot of ways, Vader is actually still very much a reflection of the hero that Anakin was. Also, although Zahn states this explicitly, I‘m not sure how different Thrawn and Vader actually are on the same „motivational executions“ side of things. Thrawn also does kill at least one officer he considers to be incompetent, and not a particularly high-ranking one, either. Unlike Vader, who is dealing (as far as I remember) with Admirals and Star Destroyer Captains. I think quite a reasonable reading of his actions is that he‘s having to deal with the inherent corruption and incompetence of the imperial leadership (of the sort that Palps arguably fosters), so making a few examples is perhaps necessary, nor would it necessarily reduce him to ruling through fear vis-a-vis the force as a whole. If people know their leadership is incompetent (and they always know) they‘ll only respect the guy who comes in to clean up the place, as long as he doesn‘t go overboard. There‘s a long and often questionable tradition of villains killing their subordinates, often to their own detriment, but by comparison Vader seems to have much better and fairly pragmatic reasons for doing so.
@@AmoebaInk it‘s a running gag but maybe not a justified one. It’s fairly reasonable to ask whether how parts of the fandom and other writers (like Zahn) interpret Vader, may have distorted people’s overall perceptions of the character. Again, I think Vader is actually not so much the cartoon villain he is popularly perceived as, but a distorted reflection of Anakin’s heroism. He is evil but he‘s also someone you want on your side (unlike, say Palpatine or Tarkin). I think that this is intentional on GL‘s part, and it‘s exactly what makes Vader scary: he‘s good at his job, and he won’t do you the favor of falling into your trap.
Almost started in on this in mid-level elementary school when I found Heir to the Empire at a book fair at my mom's university, but we had to go back to the car for her wallet and they were gone when we got back. Took me until high school to rediscover the Legends novels, thanks to a Godsend of a teacher who just had his entire collection in the library--literally almost everything from the Thrawn trilogy to Fate of the Jedi, including the entirety of New Jedi Order. From one person. I'm 22 and I still plot about going back into my high school to borrow them because there's literally nowhere else this side of Lucasfilm I can find them. The one book I recall walking away from that fateful book fair with? One for Sorrow, Two for Joy by Clive Woodall. No wonder I'm such an odd duck, that book is DARK. I think my favourite part of the trilogy is Talon Karrde. He is just an absolute roguish gem, especially with how he becomes such a critical character, and the fact that he continues to be important and have such a dynamic personality is golden. Also Pellaeon, that guy is the most GOATed admiral character in the franchise. Took a Jedi protag turned Sith Lord to kill him, and even them his last orders helped bring about that Sith's eventual defeat. 17:18 - Creating a love interest for Luke isn't the hard part, letting them survive is.
I just finished re-reading the second book. Man I love the Thrawn trilogy. I love the EU in general, but Zahn was a good writer. I also highly recommend the whole X-Wing series for anyone interested as well.
I was never a huge star wars fan, and when I gave the first thrawn audiobook a try I completely flopped out of it roughly where the smuggler and Mara Jade came in, because there had already been too little Thrawn of a while and toomuch non-thrawn for a while.
I've watched the CW series and i like it as a whole but I've never watched Rebels and have no interest in it, i remember when older and younger fans were all raving about the show but it never interested me then and it doesn't now. 16:33 that design of the Noghri just about sums up most of "Disney Starwars" today... watered down. Loads of young fans all praise Dave Filoni (some older fans too), but i was always skeptical of him. Filoni's Ahsoka series just shows what he's always about, his whole style of storytelling and how he handles *Star Wars* is just whimsical, it's more fluff than anything else. George Lucas always maintained that *Star Wars* is meant for "Kids" Young Boys to be precise, but it's obvious that when Lucas' Starwars blew up and became a "Culture Phenomenon" it appealed to way more than just kids, even boys. the EU further emphasized this fact; but it seems the way Dave Filoni especially sees starwas is something purely for kids and teenagers at best. Filoni should have never written thrawn in his Ahsoka series that should have been left to Zahn. I just think Disney are always going to keep the starwars franchise as mainly appealing to kids mostly. I mean, if the Kenobi, BOBF, 3rd Season of Mando and Ahsoka are anything to go by. Andor had a more serious, adult tone and hopefully they will allow more of that, there's certainly room in the franchise to tell both younger kid-oriented stories, as well as starwars stories for much older fans in general. But i don't know whether we're ever going to be able to get close to that George Lucas storytelling sensibility of his 6 original movies. Lucas as a storyteller just had a way of balancing lighthearted moments, but he also seemed to treat his "kid audience" back then as though they were like "intelligent" and more sophisticated i think. I hate to say it but in this era today, kids and just alot of teens and young people are way too dumbed down and have very short attention spans; and worst thing about this - Disney will always opt to keep catering to this, and as a result they will only keep watering down starwars more and more.
First, I must note, that Timothy Zahn was a consulting writer in Ahsoka and was in charge of anything Thrawn-related. But I mostly agree, Dave Filoni does have a tendency to make silly stuff for kids, especially at the beginning of any given project, but he always makes sure that the story matures as it goes forward and I think Rebels is a prime example of this. I personally cannot bear to watch the first two seasons of Rebels, with maybe the exception of the season 2 finale, because I just can't stand how silly and childish it is (not to mention the art style), I have this same problem with the CW, but, like the CW, as the show moves on the subjects, premises, and morals of the stories told grow darker and more mature to fit better with a larger demographic. Honestly, comparing season 1 of CW to season 6 is like comparing two entirely different shows and it's the same case for Rebels. I genuinely think that Thrawn is done better than literally any other character in Rebels, even if he's a bit goofy, and if you love the character, definitely give it a shot. I think that if Disney can just keep its corporate paws off of Ahsoka and Filoni's plan for the Mandoverse, then there is a ton of potential there for projects that combine elements of all of the best that Disney's Star Wars has to offer with the best that legends had to offer, but we all know that won't happen. Anyway, I'm sleep-deprived and this probably all just sounds like incoherent rambling. :p
Those books were amazing. STILL my favorite Star Wars books. And, honestly, the EU books were far better than anything Disney did (even the Vong parts which I didn't generally care for)
Please do a deep spoilery deep dive on these books. I read these books when they first came out. I read them over and over. I would love to hear more of your thoughts on this series. I always thought that these books not being made into movies was the greatest injustice to the franchise at the time.
I doubt Thrawn is transporting Yasalamiri in Ahsoka. If he had cargo hold full of them and they worked like in legends Ahsoka and others would have noticed force going away.
Correction the trilogy of thrawn trilogies is great as there are two other thrawn trilogies made for canon. That being said the first canon trilogy’s only standout book is the first but the ascendancy trilogy is great Also outbound flight is spectacular
Those original Thrawn books - specifically an audio recording of The Last Command - were my very first introduction to Star Wars, and they went a long way towards shaping my understandings of the Star Wars universe. Thrawn is a great villain. He's definitely a bad guy, something even Zahn himself seems to have forgotten in later books. But the cool thing about him is that he's a truly Machiavellian bad guy, who doesn't revel in power and cruelty for their own sake, or indulge in his own personal aggrandizement and ego-protection at the expense of pursuing his larger goals. This makes him pretty unique among Star Wars villains, and it means he's generally not inclined to make the same sorts of classic mistakes they tend to fall into. Mara Jade is one of my all-time favorite Star Wars characters, and I would say these three books constitute her finest outing. Because of her hatred of Luke and the circumstances of the books' action, she's riddled with internal conflicted for the bulk of the story, in a way I find particularly delicious. She's still great in *most* of her later appearances, but without that internal conflict, her character is missing one of her layers. Also, you refer to Mara as Luke's love interest, and I adore their relationship together in later books, but I also deeply appreciate how they're really not romantic in these three. Given where the two of them start at beginning of "Heir to the Empire," a romance between her and Luke by the end of the cycle would've been incongruous. I respect how Legends took its time and built up toward them becoming a couple over many years in-universe, as I think it makes their eventual romantic connection all the more plausible and enjoyable. My understanding is that Lucasfilm has decreed living creatures can't push away the Force, which makes sense philosophically, because if the Force constitutes life and all life comes from the Force, then living beings without the Force or that project anti-Force should be impossible. So this is why ysalamiri and their unique properties haven't appeared in the Disney canon. You could maybe do a work-around by saying they just push back a Jedi or other magic-wielder's ability to tap *into* the Force, but even that seems like it would take a lot of cosmological explaining, so I guess I don't blame the Story Group from saying "Never mind, it's just not a thing in the new continuity." Don't get me wrong, I agree the ysalamiri are cool, and the storytelling opportunities their abilities open up, but I can also sympathize with the reasoning behind relegating them to permanent Legends status
Amazing video dude. I actually have been writing in my notes app a bunch of thrawn quotes and stuff trying to make a video like this expressing the incredible nature of these books. Have you read the Hand of Thrawn Duology? Or Outbound Flight and Survivor’s Quest? They do an amazing job fleshing out Thrawn’s character and the Chiss in legends continuity. But if you want to see some great Thrawn content Timothy Zahn’s Thrawn Ascendacy trilogy that he wrote recently is fantastic. My interpretation of the Nogri in the books was of a small gangly commando. Built kinda like a chimpanzee with extra muscles that hangs low on the ground with long arms ready to attack. Dark light absorbant skin good for stealth. In the grand scheme of things I thought the rebel’s look was fairly close except maybe a smaller head. The Nogri in rebels had a very tall head and not as prominent fangs. But that is also kind of a fitting art style for rebels. I think Rukh looks amazing in the Tales of the Empire Also slight nitpick (sorry for length of comment) I believe there is a line about how Mara wasn’t on the sail barge but was at Jabba’s palace. She tried to convince Jabba to let her come. And Luke has a vision that IF she did come on the barge she would’ve stopped their plan. You still got the same idea tho even if the detail was slightly off so no issue! Great video mate
This trilogy was one of my favorite series of books and really what got me into Star Wars at all as a kid in the 90s. I still reread them every couple years. While I enjoyed most of the EU that I read, Heir to the Empire was easily the best of it and probably peak Star Wars as a whole as it kept all of the excitement with a less kiddy camp. One of my favorite parts about the series is that the villain was intelligent and did not rely on yet another boring superweapon. Later EU and especially the Disney era really fell in to the trap of everything has to be larger. Yet another even bigger Death Star. Hidden fleets of 10s (or hundreds *eyeroll at JJ*) of missed Imperial ships out there decades later, but who didn't help the Empire fight back when it counted.
One problem with your theory about the salamiri is that he's already got models of them in his office, meaning he's been to their planet but the planet he is found on in ashoka is an uncharted planet outside the galaxy. There's no way he would have found them here.
If you are a reader who wants to read this series, but have been putting it off, I recommend the Random House audio books, unabridged. Random House has decent quality and puts an extra effort with the audio mixing. There are 2 versions of Heir of the Empire, the original and the Anniversary edition. The Anniversary edition is basically the same with a second disk with an interview with the author Timothy Zahn.
I hope you’re still planning on writing more essays, and that your interest in Thrawn has led you to what REALLY happens to Thrawn after Rebels, the brilliant fanfic, Last Known Trajectory.
There aren't any novels or games specifically about him, however he does appear frequently as a side character in many post-RotJ EU novels. In short: Talon Karrde was one of the more prominent criminals in the galaxy during the reign of the Galactic Empire, who became one of the most influencial criminals after Jabba's death left a power vacuum in the criminal underworld. Despite being motivated mostly by credits, he was a frequen ally of the New Republic as well as their go-to man when something had to be done not-exactly-legaly
" I would like to introduce you all to Grand Admiral Prawn, the galaxie's deadliest punching shrimp, here to bring order to the insurrection of the pitiful dancing crabs, who dared to defy the Empire, with the might of our Empirial Navy! " - Emperor Palpatine
This was a compelling and stimulating essay. My comments fall mostly into disagreement, but I both learned from and was entertained by the video. Great job! But… Mara Jade is an interesting character except for three things: 1. There is zero, and I mean zero, chemistry between her and Luke. Zahn is great at creating characters and very good at plotting. His writing is reliably solid and occasionally quite good. But he has some shortcomings, and relationships are probably his weakest area. Not just romantic relationships either - he has trouble conveying friendships too. If anyone ever read the Heir To The Empire trilogy without having seen SW, they’d be at a total loss for why, say, Han and Lando are friends. Not because of the lack of history, but because of how they speak to one another, and how they interact in general. And the relationship between Mara and Luke really suffers from this problem. 2. Mara’s motivation to kill Luke makes no sense, but all the other characters behave and speak as though it does. Sure, we eventually learn why she’s so single minded about it, but her stated reasons boils down to her losing her job. It was just…laughable. I had no sympathy for her whatsoever, and I could never understand why the other characters didn’t immediately call her on it. 3. Mara is, SURPRISE, implied to be ridiculously beautiful. True, Zahn doesn’t describe her every last curve. And maybe you could argue the Emperor recruited her for her looks, but that’s not what the book says at all. And whether or not Zahn spells it out for us, certainly every inch of cover art depicts her as a cat-suited buxom babe. So it’s just a tired trope reflecting the fantasies of a typical straight mail author, and it makes her relationship with Luke even more like something from a pulp romance novel. As for Leah and Han…I found their relationship almost as weak and unconvincing as any of the others. You read a lovely passage, but it’s at best an isolated and unconnected sentiment. It’s notable more for its rarity than its continuity. And as revelation or explanation, it’s unsupported except by solicited leaps of the readers’ imagination. As well, we don’t get any insights into Han that might validate why he would care about those - almost any other - qualities in Leah; in fact, much of his persona seems neutral at best to what we are supposed to “know” about her. And that problem, again, is reflected in nearly all the characters in the story. None of them, with the arguable exceptions of Luke and Karrde, have an appreciable depth of personality. Even Thrawn, brilliant a character as he certainly is, fails to translate under the weight of current standards of what makes a great villain. For all his acumen and refreshing differences from other SW antagonists, he’s motivations are uninspired and cartoonish. All of this makes sense, however, since Zahn was obviously much younger and unseasoned in many of the nuances he thankfully displays in most of his more recent novels. Just as he’s done away with his too-frequent call backs to the films that pepper the Heir trilogy, his characters now have much greater depth.
Wow I didn´t realise how much this trilogy influenced the Canon. I just read it recently and recognised Tantiss from the Bad Batch and was thrilled to see that they gave this place some more lore and I knew about Thrawn from Rebels and later the Ahsoka Series, but that this trilogy also "invented" Coruscant? I´m having a bindblown moment rn that I probably shouldn´t have.
Great video.. Thanks for making it man. Your outline could be tighter to flow better. I stuck around because I knew what you were talking about and was excited to hear more. but if your trying to hook new people or the majority of the audience that doesn't know about the eu I think you are going to lose them in the beginning to middilish part. You kinda splinter off and need to have a focus lightning rod that builds everything around it to keep people engaged. Just my two cents love the content and subbed either way.. Gl
another very intersting thing: you might be familiar that german dubs most foreign movies since the dawn of time, which means luke, han, leia, etc. all have their own german voice-actors which gave us an amazing thrawn-trilogy audiobook with the original german voice acting cast, sound effects, etc etc. its brilliant
The English audiobooks at least have music and sound effects. Sure it only has the one guy narrating the whole thing, but his acting talent is pretty good considering the range of characters he needed to cover with both impersinations of the established movie cast and making up new ones, plus having filters applied where appropriate(radios, helmets, driods, some alien species, and so on)
the EU is lovingly called legends by the community you can look up legends maps and such to find what all books exist good luck! im not even sure if i know of em all
as a big Thrawn fan i dont really like that hes in Rebels and Ahsoka since hes never going to be the full badass that he is due to the good guys needing to win. However its still great to see him in the universe.
Wait... if Thrawn would've transported those creatures, wouldn't they have negated the force powers of Ahsoka and her companions if their abilities added up?
I was 10 minutes in before I realized this wasn't one of those huge lore channels. Great Job!
Captain Pellaeon is one of the most underrated yet consequential imperial characters in the whole EU. Ultimately rising himself to the rank of Grand Admiral and leading the fractured Empire back together and into peace with the New Republic.
His presence in the trilogy is very endearing to read as he's basically the Watson to the Thrawn's Sherlock Holmes.
Massively important across almost every series
Pellaeon is straight-up my favorite EU character and one of my favorite SW characters of all time. He was indeed the Watson (directly inspired by Watson too IIRC), and just like Watson, once his mentor was gone he tried to emulate him, but in his own way (one of the reasons I love both characters so much).
Also like Watson, Pellaeon had a hidden wisdom to him that I think even he wasn't fully aware he had. Kept trying to pass off power to others but eventually decided he had to make a call to save the Remnant by calling for a truce (of course he still got Moff approval but it was still Pellaeon's most decisive moment regardless).
That moment where the New Republic and the Imperial Remnant signed a peace treaty and allowed individual systems to choose their allegiance is something that has always stuck in my mind as a defining character moment for him, as well as a massive turning point in the EU as a whole. The end of the long, long war, with neither side obliterated. Which is not what I expected to happen but I loved the twist.
Pellaeon was also the epitome of Zahn's more nuanced take on the Empire, even moreso than Thrawn IMO. Even though he fought for the villains, I can't really call Pellaeon a bad man. Hardly a saint by any stretch, but there was a lot of good and bad to him that made him so compelling.
The Thrawn trilogy will always be the real star wars sequel trilogy
facts
Think what you want about the ST, but let's not lie to ourselves; the Thrawn trlilogy is FAR from as perfect as we remember it! I read the books when I was in high school, they were over 10 years old by this time, but by God I loved them! So much better than the prequels! But in retrospect, I have started to see the flaws. For one, Joruus is a weak antagonist!
Well, yes, he is. He is secondary antagonist, calamity to OT heroes but mere issue for Thrawn. And even by EU scale, he is probably weaker than Night Sisters @@Chemical_Argentum
@@mrzirak792kinda wish more ppl remembered that
@@mrzirak792 Night Sisters are not the OP joke of a faction in Legends that they were in TCW. In fact, they aligned with Warlord Zsinj in Legends, who is objectively a lesser threat than Grand Admiral Thrawn.
I believe the most chilling part about Thrawn is that he seems like a pretty chill dude. Like if he invited you on the Chimara he would probably give you a glass of wine and want to talk about his paintings.
Weirdly enough he's drinking beer out of a mug in his first scene. Feels very strange. Like Zahn was gonna have him drinking wine but thought it was cliche.
Which scene is this? I don't remember it in the books.
Dark Horse comics?
@@gmradio2436 Literwlly the first scene he ever appears in, he's drinking an ale.
@@DIEGhostfish I remember him being in a dark chamber, surrounded by rings of holographic art. Don't remember the ale. Have to reread Heir apparently.
The thrawn trilogy honestly got me into the eu books and now I’m on Dark Journey (the 22 entry in the EU timeline) and HOLY shit.
Bro star by star had to RUIN you, are you mentally okay after that?
@@grannytoes7221what was that one about? Is it the one where Luke wants to bang a padawan that is possessed by the ghost of his former padawan?
I'll recommend Jedi Apprentice and Young Jedi Knights for you.
@@diegeticfridge9167 I'll add Junior Jedi Knights to the recommendations. It's aimed at younger readers, but it's where Anakin comes into his own as a character.
The entire X-Wing series is fantastic. I, Jedi is my favorite single Star Wars book.
This book is the anchor of the Expanded Universe. Everything starts here. I argue the prequels and sequels might not have been made if this wasn't a success.
It's hard to argue against it. There's a reason why Timothy Zahn was referred to as the man who saved Star Wars by several publications (e.g. "The Secret History of Star Wars" by Michael Kaminski) and fans alike. The Thrawn trilogy was a success and rekindled wider interest in Star Wars back in the 90s. After that the Special Edition was greenlit and the prequels followed a few years after.
Just a slight correction about Mara: the books acknowledge that she never actually appears in the movies - or more accurately, not at the Sarlacc pit (there have been plenty of speculations about who was portraying her in Jabba's palace under the assumption that she was depicted there, but the books were written before the Special Edition of the movies, and most of these came up in the wake of the SE release) - but they use a pretty clever way for doing it. For those who do not already know, I will not spoil anything, but I will say this: the realization of it has quite the bone-chilling effect on Luke, all because just one little detail change could have made the rescue of Han Solo go completely differently and very likely disastrously for them (and yeah, this is a way of bringing up the concept of the butterfly effect).
Back lore with Mara Jade, she brag that Palpatine & Vader had their agents on every major ship the Rebelion had to kill off the command staff. Later they rolled that into Order 66.
I gotta know. Can you share or at least tell me where i can read up more on this?
One thing Zahn and later EU writers arguably did a good job with is balancing the potential threat of the villains against the risk of undermining everything the heroes accomplished in the OT. Thrawn and others manage to present a real and believable threat, but almost always from a position of relative weakness: the Rebels won the Civil War, the New Republic is in place and the heroes are now defending a position of strength against new bad guys. This is hugely important because it lends weight to the worldbuilding and the events that happened previously, including in the movies.
Disney does the opposite, essentially wiping away the Rebels‘ victories, offscreen, with the stroke of a pen, in order to put the protagonists into the position of having to overthrow the Empire *again*. A big mistake, which the EU generally avoided.
In the Thrawn trilogy, the narrative tension doesn‘t come from the overpowering might of the galactic empire, but simply the threat that Thrawn might destroy the Republic and undo all the hard-won success of the heroes. But he never does and he doesn‘t have to. The threat that he might is enough.
Just wanted to add to your points of Zahn's character exploration: As far as i'm aware, Mon Mothma's only appearance from that point was in RotJ, and it was kinda brief too. But we got to see her take on the role as leader of the New Republic, the struggle that the politics entailed, and how she eventually swallowed her pride for the benefit of all, allowing a certain Corellian general to save the day. Sure, she still was kindova minor character, but she got some characterization and background added to her than merely "Rebel leader". Also, i've never wanted to punch a character more than Councilor Feyyla. Masterful writing from Zahn. And a great video! I really STRONGLY recommend for people who haven't read the Thrawn trilogy to do so. Afterwards, if you want to re-savour the story, try reading the graphic novels. They're fantastic. (One more thing- I totally agree that the Noghri had such a fearsome and awesome design via the graphic novels. I personally prefer the version in Dark Force Rising.)
West End Games HAD set up that prior to the Emperor's death Mon Mothma was the absolute unquestioned dictator of the Alliance. And the late marvel stuff sorta implied her power was only slowly reducing from that after Palpatine died. So, that's probably where Zahn got the idea of Bel Iblis breaking off, and from there he decided to explore Mon Mothma's character.
I do sincerely think this stuff was far more interesting and better than what Disney has done
Just like the Halo books are the holy grail of the original Halo story
I mostly agree. Microsoft Publishing had some real gold, not just Halo. I do think the quality fell a bit after 343 took over the story.
It's worth noting that there was already a series of books before Timothy Zahn's Heir to the Empire trilogy that were building up the post-RoTJ (the Star Wars: Rogue Squadron books), but the first Thrawn trilogy was the first time we got to see 'the gang back together'. The fact they had Thrawn (a non-force user) with Joruus Sabbaoth as a secondary antagonist just makes the trilogy all the more memorable/interesting than the Disney dreck we ended up getting (and that's just on the villain side).
The only “series” of novels before the Thrawn trilogy were the Han Solo/Lando Calrissian short stories. The first Rogue Squadron book was released in 1996, three years after The Last Command.
@@peternotyou8192 I stand corrected then. Been burning through the audibooks/ebooks for the EU o so I haven't been really checking the publishing dates. My point about 'the first time we get to see the gang back together' still stands tho, correct? I've heard there were some weird comics in the 80s, but that's about it.
@@internetzenmaster8952 that part is indeed correct. It’s also worth noting that interest in SW was waning quite a bit when those books released. We had a few god-awful shows and movies about Droids and Ewoks, and we did get West End Games massively expanding on the lore with their tabletop RPG in the late 80’s (hamstrung somewhat by the Satanic Panic). The Thrawn trilogy signified the franchise coming back in a big way.
@@peternotyou8192 Not just the Thrawn Trilogy, but the first few runs of Dark Horse's Star Wars comics. The Marvel comics from the 70s and 80s were basically a joke, and almost always written by writers who wanted nothing to do with Star Wars, or worse, wanted to make it part of the Marvel universe, so it was a big deal when (the real) Tales of the Jedi came out in 1993.
@@TheOwneroftheIC I liked Mary Jo Duffy's later era ones, where she and the artist crammed it full of late 70s early 80s anime references like Lando being disguised as Captain Harlock, (But with white hair to compliment his brown skin in a cool inverse colorscheme)
All Disney had to do was adapt the Thrawn Trilogy for the big screen. It was that easy
And then everybody would have cried they just copied somebody else work and ruined it because movies can never be anywhere near as good as the books. You know this is true.
3:44 Leia is what amounts to the Secretary of State for the New Republic. Also, the NR wasn't really "larger" than the Imp Warlords, what made them lose was more that they were using resources to fight each other instead of the NR, giving the NR time to consolidate and start their meticulous campaign of eliminating one Warlord after the other.
Leia did serve as head of state for a time after Mon Mothma, but stepped down just about the second there was a viable replacement. Gavrissom took over after that. After "Puffers" came everyone's favorite Bothan, I believe.
WE haven't forgotten you EU! Great video, was born in 92' so after discovering the OG Trilogy on VHS (man that makes me feel old, older than I am) I was introduced to the EU & was HOOKED. A few yrs back I got back into collecting (TVC 3.75!) & really have fallen back in love with SW. My job since starting 4-5yrs ago has really beaten me down, draining the force from my body, creating a wound in my life. Yet, SW has helped, I've fallen in love with this galaxy again, & it has really helped in dark times. Glad I found this, I hit subscribe right away, & plan on staying!
Thrawn was incredibly smart. If Palpy had just listened to him and used Death Star resources on the Imperial Fleet, the empire would have never fallen.
One of the aspects of the original Sequel Trilogy was that unlike Vader or Palpatine, Thrawn wasn't a force-user, and unlike Tarkin, wasn't relying on brute force but on pure intellect. Even more, he acted not only as a strategist, but also as a teacher, teaching his strategies and his style of command to his subordinates. Thrawn's death is arguably one of the greatest mistakes Zahn could have made. We should have had an Empire led by the Grand Admiral, no matter if it was the Empire Remnants, the Empire of the Hand or something else, but the Grand Admiral should have had a true chance as Heir to the Empire.
While I agree that his death was too soon and he should have had more stories, I can also understand the need to end his with the trilogy. That said, I do like his death in that his passion and respect for order are so great that his last thoughts are to admire the efficiency and cleanness of his assassin's work.
Thrawn had to die to end the story. Hear me out. The reason that we all love him is that he was so damned good at what he did. He used the psychological blind spots of his opponents to absolutely destroy them while they had no way to conceiving of how they were losing. He was so good at this, that he stands out as a villain for not being defeated by the protagonists. He lost due to his own psychological blind spot. In a way, he defeated himself. In another way, he was the victim of forces that he could not perceive, but were indirectly the result of the protagonist's actions. It perfect symmetry in writing. It was poetry.
When I was 12, I was already a huge Star Wars fan. As I waited for the prequels to finish, my dad came up to me one day and offered my the Thrawn trilogy, in a nice hard cover set. I skimmed them, saw no pictures, and said, "Thanks dad, maybe later."
A few years later, I finally went and read them; and immediately regretted not reading them earlier. Everything about them is SO GOOD! The new characters are great, how the old characters grow and change feels real, the threats are new but still familiar, everything is just FANTASTIC! True it doesn't 100% line up with the prequals, but 95% is still a passing grade. To me, this is what happens after Return of the Jedi, this is my Episode 7, 8, and 9.
Plus a early computer game in the 1990s, Tie Fighter, subtly reinforced Thrawn as a great and enriching character in the lore and story telling.
From a more slow paced, as well as more rewarding, gaming era.
90s Star Wars will forever be my only true Star Wars.
I first saw Star Wars and got into the EU in 1995, but already 4 years later it was like the prequel era was a completely different beast from what I had come to love so much.
Im really bad at flight sims but watching playthroughs of TIE Fighter really made me fall in love with the storyline.
I'm playing TFTC (Tie Fighter Total Conversion based on X-Wing Alliance with some graphical updates) and it's bringing back all those memories of playing X-Wing, Tie Fighter and X-Wing vs. Tie Fighter back then as a kid. Even got my modern HOSAS running with it.
That said, the voice for thrawn in TIE Fighter is probably the worst he's ever been. Marc Thompson's EU voice>Robin Atkin Downes inpersonating Marc Thompson for Empire at War>Mikkelson=Wedge Antilles(a joke, Wedge's actor actually did the original abridged Heir to the Empire)>Marc Thompson impersonating Mikkelson in the Disneyverse books>TIE Fighter.
F*** Disney for what they've done to this iconic story
I've enjoyed so many books from both the old EU and new Canon.
But there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that the original Thrawn trilogy are the best Star Wars books ever written.
I listened to the audiobook and it really felt like I was watching actual Star Wars movies. They brought me into the universe like to other books.
To be fair... Thrawn has had three great trilogies. A great trilogy of great trilogies. You've got the Legends Heir to the Empire trilogy which kicked off the whole EU/Legends, and you've got the Canon Thrawn and Thrawn Ascendancy trilogies that are some of the best Disney era Star Wars content, regardless of what you think about Disney's handling of Star Wars as a whole. All three of these trilogies shine bright thanks to Timothy Zahn's phenomenal writing.
I've also hears that Hand of the Thrawn and other 2 "Thrawn-verse" Related books by Zahn are also as solid
@@mrzirak792 Haven't read those yet, but if they're by Zahn, then they're probably at worst A tier Star Wars books.
What is this "Canon Thrawn" you speak of?
Because the only "canon" I know _is_ the EU.
Since when are we treating shitty fanfics, written by a bunch of hacks, who do not understand the first thing about the lore, as "canon"?
Great video. Even though the evil Empire that owns Star Wars has largely disavowed the EU, cannibalizing the IP of better characters and better stories for their version of Star Wars (which is frankly, not very good, and pales in comparison to much of the EU) there is real value in, not only the Thrawn Trilogy, but the EU as a whole. I’d encourage you to keep up your exploration of the continuation of Star Wars (before Disney got their grubby hands on it) but I suspect that you’re way ahead of me. I’d love to hear what you think about the New Jedi Order series, or the Jedi Academy trilogy
@@Xoruam "I'm a fan of the Expanded Universe."
"We call it Legends now, don't we?"
"Do we? You're a journalist? Piss off."
This channel needs more views and subscribers this shit too good to be this unknown
This is the first series I read as a kid, and I LOVED it. Disney really screwed up by not using these EU stories. Thrawn was such a compelling character. IMAGINE an Imperial Grand Admiral telling you, “Hey, that was actually a really good try…you’re promoted.” NOT NORMAL.
It make me laugh like a mad man that Disney could screw up Star wars SO HARD, when they had the perfect blueprint right there in the EU.
There’s another thing that encapsulates Disney other than greed and incompetence
“Pride”, they have stonks of it that they had to make the EU non-canon
I had a lot of pacing issues with The Thrawn Trilogy, especially with the second book. HOWEVER. It had a vision and stuck to it, and that alone makes it better than Disney. It wasn't just a rehash of the original Trilogy, telling its own story and standing just fine on its own two feet. Was very happy to have read them.
It was so artistically done.
😢
Great video! Please continue talking about the EU like Dark Empire Saga and the jedi academy trilogy etc
I read these books when they came out and I loved them dearly. I have passed them onto my boys and have never shown them the three 'sequels' they made. They have seen Rogue One and seen a few of the TV shows but I never watched the last film and only half of The Last Jedi and I knew it was garbage. Disney had the opportunity to make a Trilogy based on these books that would have really renewed and revived the world of Star Wars. It was the perfect blueprint to expand into the the Star Wars Universe and bring back new excitement for both the old and the new series. Instead Disney cast it aside and did their own dumb thing. They could have saved so much money and time just sticking with these books. Thrawn was my all time favorite villain for years. He was so clever and strategic and calculating that it was always a joy to read these stories. Great video, by the way.
Just from hearing you read some passages of dialogue I can tell Thrawn in the books has this aura of tactical expertise that I feel didn't come across as strong in Rebels or Asohka. This video has convinced me to go read the Thrawn trilogy.
I am in on that ride right now and have finished the first book. Great ideas, good and logical plot development(s), likeable new and well familiar old characters are all present.
Basically, these books do what Disney Wars almost never accomplish. Continue the Original Trilogy's storyline in a logical and believable way.
Without preaching messages and with lots of respect and care for the Star Wars universe, I might add.
The 20th Anniversary Edition audiobook narrated by Marc Thompson is the closest to an actual "movie experience". I can highly recommend it.
It's great because it is well-written, with care and attention, respect and dare I say it love, with great characters, story progress and high yet believable stakes.
And this is because it was not the creation of an evil witch, a soulless homunculus and a jibbering troll.
I have not read the legend books, but I've read a few of the cannon books by the same author. I always admired how Thrawn treated his crew.
The new Thrawn books are really good. Pretty much the only thing Disney have released that I like.
Very much enjoyed this video. Even tho I have the audiobooks and have been listening a bit lately, this was like rediscovering the books in a way. Thanks for making it.
Great video man. Looking forward to seeing what you make in the future!
Great video! I too hope we get to see a live action Mara Jade!
Not unless we convince the people at LucasFilm very, very hard to make them see reason.
You deserve more subs, this was really well done
His cargo can't be ysalimari. Their compounding Force bubble would have prevented Sabine and Ezra from Force-jumping onto the ship. Especially with that many in such a small space.
In Ledgends hyperspace was unconnected to the Force. Force suppression did not affect hyperspace travel. These are Legends stories. Dave Faloni has no input here.
These really are some great books. You did a great job of making it intriguing while avoiding most spoilers.
15:43-16:35
My reaction to the Rebels (and Tales of the Empire) version of Ruhk was something like “Really? That’s the best you could come up with when adapting this character?”
Great video bro, about half way thru and never would’ve guessed this vid has under 100k+ views and your channel under 1000 subs. Very good quality, this is more personal but a lot of narrators don’t keep me interested through the duration of the vid. Keep it up man love the vid and style
Such a great covering of the thrawm books, really doing them justice (unlike rebels, an i to some extent like rebels). Keep up the great work!
Can we expect more exposé, long, meaty videos like this?
If the Chimera was transporting that many ysalamiri in the Ahsoka show then Ahsoka, Ezra, and Sabine wouldn't have had access to the force during the first season's final battle in the fortress, nor would the great mothers. Points for an original theory, but it doesn't seem nearly as plausible as the idea that they're transporting night sister corpses.
Fantastic video! Can’t believe how small this channel is, hope to see more like this!
WRONG mara jade was not at jabba's sail barge but she was at his palace
Its funny If they put some mind to it they can adapt the trilogy with a couple changes especially including the prequels
Honestly, I was expecting something along these lines when Zahn's excellent trilogy first came out; a pity.
Great essay! I felt like I'd been gut-shot watching Ahsoka because it pretty much meant Filoni had poached just enough of the Heir Trilogy to stuff it up and ensure that Heir To The Empire in full was ruined for the Disney reign. There had been huge speculation about Ahsoka being the slingshot vehicle for Favreau/Filoni to go around the ST. But it isn't.
However, there is a great fan film by DarthAngelus, Heir to the Empire, which I still watch every few months. Gives me hope. ;)
2 Minor point in defense of Vader: Vader doesn‘t just lead through fear, he also leads from the front, which is crucial. Unlike Palpatine or most of his other subordinates, (or Thrawn for that matter) Vader is regularly in the thick of the fight, personally hunting down the Empire‘s enemies and in the process putting himself in the same danger (at least theoretically) as his men. In a lot of ways, Vader is actually still very much a reflection of the hero that Anakin was.
Also, although Zahn states this explicitly, I‘m not sure how different Thrawn and Vader actually are on the same „motivational executions“ side of things. Thrawn also does kill at least one officer he considers to be incompetent, and not a particularly high-ranking one, either. Unlike Vader, who is dealing (as far as I remember) with Admirals and Star Destroyer Captains. I think quite a reasonable reading of his actions is that he‘s having to deal with the inherent corruption and incompetence of the imperial leadership (of the sort that Palps arguably fosters), so making a few examples is perhaps necessary, nor would it necessarily reduce him to ruling through fear vis-a-vis the force as a whole. If people know their leadership is incompetent (and they always know) they‘ll only respect the guy who comes in to clean up the place, as long as he doesn‘t go overboard.
There‘s a long and often questionable tradition of villains killing their subordinates, often to their own detriment, but by comparison Vader seems to have much better and fairly pragmatic reasons for doing so.
@@AmoebaInk it‘s a running gag but maybe not a justified one. It’s fairly reasonable to ask whether how parts of the fandom and other writers (like Zahn) interpret Vader, may have distorted people’s overall perceptions of the character.
Again, I think Vader is actually not so much the cartoon villain he is popularly perceived as, but a distorted reflection of Anakin’s heroism. He is evil but he‘s also someone you want on your side (unlike, say Palpatine or Tarkin). I think that this is intentional on GL‘s part, and it‘s exactly what makes Vader scary: he‘s good at his job, and he won’t do you the favor of falling into your trap.
Almost started in on this in mid-level elementary school when I found Heir to the Empire at a book fair at my mom's university, but we had to go back to the car for her wallet and they were gone when we got back. Took me until high school to rediscover the Legends novels, thanks to a Godsend of a teacher who just had his entire collection in the library--literally almost everything from the Thrawn trilogy to Fate of the Jedi, including the entirety of New Jedi Order. From one person. I'm 22 and I still plot about going back into my high school to borrow them because there's literally nowhere else this side of Lucasfilm I can find them.
The one book I recall walking away from that fateful book fair with? One for Sorrow, Two for Joy by Clive Woodall. No wonder I'm such an odd duck, that book is DARK.
I think my favourite part of the trilogy is Talon Karrde. He is just an absolute roguish gem, especially with how he becomes such a critical character, and the fact that he continues to be important and have such a dynamic personality is golden. Also Pellaeon, that guy is the most GOATed admiral character in the franchise. Took a Jedi protag turned Sith Lord to kill him, and even them his last orders helped bring about that Sith's eventual defeat.
17:18 - Creating a love interest for Luke isn't the hard part, letting them survive is.
I just finished re-reading the second book. Man I love the Thrawn trilogy. I love the EU in general, but Zahn was a good writer. I also highly recommend the whole X-Wing series for anyone interested as well.
I was never a huge star wars fan, and when I gave the first thrawn audiobook a try I completely flopped out of it roughly where the smuggler and Mara Jade came in, because there had already been too little Thrawn of a while and toomuch non-thrawn for a while.
audiobooks are not great
@@mattmmilli8287 Good audiobooks transcend books, the Thrawn one was not even bad.
I've watched the CW series and i like it as a whole but I've never watched Rebels and have no interest in it, i remember when older and younger fans were all raving about the show but it never interested me then and it doesn't now.
16:33 that design of the Noghri just about sums up most of "Disney Starwars" today... watered down. Loads of young fans all praise Dave Filoni (some older fans too), but i was always skeptical of him. Filoni's Ahsoka series just shows what he's always about, his whole style of storytelling and how he handles *Star Wars* is just whimsical, it's more fluff than anything else.
George Lucas always maintained that *Star Wars* is meant for "Kids" Young Boys to be precise, but it's obvious that when Lucas' Starwars blew up and became a "Culture Phenomenon" it appealed to way more than just kids, even boys. the EU further emphasized this fact; but it seems the way Dave Filoni especially sees starwas is something purely for kids and teenagers at best. Filoni should have never written thrawn in his Ahsoka series that should have been left to Zahn.
I just think Disney are always going to keep the starwars franchise as mainly appealing to kids mostly. I mean, if the Kenobi, BOBF, 3rd Season of Mando and Ahsoka are anything to go by. Andor had a more serious, adult tone and hopefully they will allow more of that, there's certainly room in the franchise to tell both younger kid-oriented stories, as well as starwars stories for much older fans in general.
But i don't know whether we're ever going to be able to get close to that George Lucas storytelling sensibility of his 6 original movies. Lucas as a storyteller just had a way of balancing lighthearted moments, but he also seemed to treat his "kid audience" back then as though they were like "intelligent" and more sophisticated i think. I hate to say it but in this era today, kids and just alot of teens and young people are way too dumbed down and have very short attention spans; and worst thing about this - Disney will always opt to keep catering to this, and as a result they will only keep watering down starwars more and more.
First, I must note, that Timothy Zahn was a consulting writer in Ahsoka and was in charge of anything Thrawn-related. But I mostly agree, Dave Filoni does have a tendency to make silly stuff for kids, especially at the beginning of any given project, but he always makes sure that the story matures as it goes forward and I think Rebels is a prime example of this. I personally cannot bear to watch the first two seasons of Rebels, with maybe the exception of the season 2 finale, because I just can't stand how silly and childish it is (not to mention the art style), I have this same problem with the CW, but, like the CW, as the show moves on the subjects, premises, and morals of the stories told grow darker and more mature to fit better with a larger demographic. Honestly, comparing season 1 of CW to season 6 is like comparing two entirely different shows and it's the same case for Rebels. I genuinely think that Thrawn is done better than literally any other character in Rebels, even if he's a bit goofy, and if you love the character, definitely give it a shot. I think that if Disney can just keep its corporate paws off of Ahsoka and Filoni's plan for the Mandoverse, then there is a ton of potential there for projects that combine elements of all of the best that Disney's Star Wars has to offer with the best that legends had to offer, but we all know that won't happen. Anyway, I'm sleep-deprived and this probably all just sounds like incoherent rambling. :p
Just got the trilogy to read. I need the real sequels.
The original Thrawn Trilogy is a pure masterpiece and created one of the most popular villains in Star Wars.
Those books were amazing. STILL my favorite Star Wars books. And, honestly, the EU books were far better than anything Disney did (even the Vong parts which I didn't generally care for)
Thrawn is like if Tywin Lannister was the main villain if the sequels. Wish they just made those books into films.
Wait damn you're a massively underrated channel! I really thought you were one of the bigger sw channels with this video, earned yourself a sub
Please do a deep spoilery deep dive on these books. I read these books when they first came out. I read them over and over. I would love to hear more of your thoughts on this series. I always thought that these books not being made into movies was the greatest injustice to the franchise at the time.
I just finished reading the trilogy and it was amazing
Loved the video, been waiting since the 90s for the EU trilogy to get some love
I doubt Thrawn is transporting Yasalamiri in Ahsoka. If he had cargo hold full of them and they worked like in legends Ahsoka and others would have noticed force going away.
Fantastic video. I’ve had the first book for some time now but never read it, you’ve convinced me to go and set some time aside to look it over.
Correction the trilogy of thrawn trilogies is great as there are two other thrawn trilogies made for canon. That being said the first canon trilogy’s only standout book is the first but the ascendancy trilogy is great
Also outbound flight is spectacular
I personally really like Thrawn: Treason.
Those original Thrawn books - specifically an audio recording of The Last Command - were my very first introduction to Star Wars, and they went a long way towards shaping my understandings of the Star Wars universe.
Thrawn is a great villain. He's definitely a bad guy, something even Zahn himself seems to have forgotten in later books. But the cool thing about him is that he's a truly Machiavellian bad guy, who doesn't revel in power and cruelty for their own sake, or indulge in his own personal aggrandizement and ego-protection at the expense of pursuing his larger goals. This makes him pretty unique among Star Wars villains, and it means he's generally not inclined to make the same sorts of classic mistakes they tend to fall into.
Mara Jade is one of my all-time favorite Star Wars characters, and I would say these three books constitute her finest outing. Because of her hatred of Luke and the circumstances of the books' action, she's riddled with internal conflicted for the bulk of the story, in a way I find particularly delicious. She's still great in *most* of her later appearances, but without that internal conflict, her character is missing one of her layers.
Also, you refer to Mara as Luke's love interest, and I adore their relationship together in later books, but I also deeply appreciate how they're really not romantic in these three. Given where the two of them start at beginning of "Heir to the Empire," a romance between her and Luke by the end of the cycle would've been incongruous. I respect how Legends took its time and built up toward them becoming a couple over many years in-universe, as I think it makes their eventual romantic connection all the more plausible and enjoyable.
My understanding is that Lucasfilm has decreed living creatures can't push away the Force, which makes sense philosophically, because if the Force constitutes life and all life comes from the Force, then living beings without the Force or that project anti-Force should be impossible. So this is why ysalamiri and their unique properties haven't appeared in the Disney canon.
You could maybe do a work-around by saying they just push back a Jedi or other magic-wielder's ability to tap *into* the Force, but even that seems like it would take a lot of cosmological explaining, so I guess I don't blame the Story Group from saying "Never mind, it's just not a thing in the new continuity." Don't get me wrong, I agree the ysalamiri are cool, and the storytelling opportunities their abilities open up, but I can also sympathize with the reasoning behind relegating them to permanent Legends status
Amazing video dude. I actually have been writing in my notes app a bunch of thrawn quotes and stuff trying to make a video like this expressing the incredible nature of these books. Have you read the Hand of Thrawn Duology? Or Outbound Flight and Survivor’s Quest? They do an amazing job fleshing out Thrawn’s character and the Chiss in legends continuity. But if you want to see some great Thrawn content Timothy Zahn’s Thrawn Ascendacy trilogy that he wrote recently is fantastic.
My interpretation of the Nogri in the books was of a small gangly commando. Built kinda like a chimpanzee with extra muscles that hangs low on the ground with long arms ready to attack. Dark light absorbant skin good for stealth. In the grand scheme of things I thought the rebel’s look was fairly close except maybe a smaller head. The Nogri in rebels had a very tall head and not as prominent fangs. But that is also kind of a fitting art style for rebels. I think Rukh looks amazing in the Tales of the Empire
Also slight nitpick (sorry for length of comment) I believe there is a line about how Mara wasn’t on the sail barge but was at Jabba’s palace. She tried to convince Jabba to let her come. And Luke has a vision that IF she did come on the barge she would’ve stopped their plan. You still got the same idea tho even if the detail was slightly off so no issue! Great video mate
Thrawn doesn't have pupils. That's just Filoni rewriting the EU to be what he wants.
You don’t think Thrawn was training Pelleon as a pupil?
@@AmoebaInk And here's the thing, CGI villains in the 1990s could be rendered without pupils, so there's no excuse for Filoni to change that.
@@saberiandream316 it's just a small artistic difference, no need to get all worked up about it
I just subbbed! I’m liking your vibe and this video. I can’t wait to see more. Thanks!
This trilogy was one of my favorite series of books and really what got me into Star Wars at all as a kid in the 90s. I still reread them every couple years. While I enjoyed most of the EU that I read, Heir to the Empire was easily the best of it and probably peak Star Wars as a whole as it kept all of the excitement with a less kiddy camp. One of my favorite parts about the series is that the villain was intelligent and did not rely on yet another boring superweapon. Later EU and especially the Disney era really fell in to the trap of everything has to be larger. Yet another even bigger Death Star. Hidden fleets of 10s (or hundreds *eyeroll at JJ*) of missed Imperial ships out there decades later, but who didn't help the Empire fight back when it counted.
One problem with your theory about the salamiri is that he's already got models of them in his office, meaning he's been to their planet but the planet he is found on in ashoka is an uncharted planet outside the galaxy. There's no way he would have found them here.
If you are a reader who wants to read this series, but have been putting it off, I recommend the Random House audio books, unabridged. Random House has decent quality and puts an extra effort with the audio mixing. There are 2 versions of Heir of the Empire, the original and the Anniversary edition. The Anniversary edition is basically the same with a second disk with an interview with the author Timothy Zahn.
Me: (waves hand)
"There is no Disney sequel trilogy.
There are only Episodes 1-6"
But seriously: fantastic video!
Thank you.
Dude,
Your voice is amazing.
I hope you’re still planning on writing more essays, and that your interest in Thrawn has led you to what REALLY happens to Thrawn after Rebels, the brilliant fanfic, Last Known Trajectory.
12 comments? this needs to blow up and get 100000 subscribers
wait whose this Talon Karrde? id like to hear more about him ;)
There aren't any novels or games specifically about him, however he does appear frequently as a side character in many post-RotJ EU novels.
In short: Talon Karrde was one of the more prominent criminals in the galaxy during the reign of the Galactic Empire, who became one of the most influencial criminals after Jabba's death left a power vacuum in the criminal underworld. Despite being motivated mostly by credits, he was a frequen ally of the New Republic as well as their go-to man when something had to be done not-exactly-legaly
Great video, you've got a great voice for narration
Could you cover the swarm wars
" I would like to introduce you all to Grand Admiral Prawn, the galaxie's deadliest punching shrimp, here to bring order to the insurrection of the pitiful dancing crabs, who dared to defy the Empire, with the might of our Empirial Navy! " - Emperor Palpatine
This was a compelling and stimulating essay. My comments fall mostly into disagreement, but I both learned from and was entertained by the video. Great job!
But…
Mara Jade is an interesting character except for three things:
1. There is zero, and I mean zero, chemistry between her and Luke. Zahn is great at creating characters and very good at plotting. His writing is reliably solid and occasionally quite good. But he has some shortcomings, and relationships are probably his weakest area. Not just romantic relationships either - he has trouble conveying friendships too. If anyone ever read the Heir To The Empire trilogy without having seen SW, they’d be at a total loss for why, say, Han and Lando are friends. Not because of the lack of history, but because of how they speak to one another, and how they interact in general. And the relationship between Mara and Luke really suffers from this problem.
2. Mara’s motivation to kill Luke makes no sense, but all the other characters behave and speak as though it does. Sure, we eventually learn why she’s so single minded about it, but her stated reasons boils down to her losing her job. It was just…laughable. I had no sympathy for her whatsoever, and I could never understand why the other characters didn’t immediately call her on it.
3. Mara is, SURPRISE, implied to be ridiculously beautiful. True, Zahn doesn’t describe her every last curve. And maybe you could argue the Emperor recruited her for her looks, but that’s not what the book says at all. And whether or not Zahn spells it out for us, certainly every inch of cover art depicts her as a cat-suited buxom babe. So it’s just a tired trope reflecting the fantasies of a typical straight mail author, and it makes her relationship with Luke even more like something from a pulp romance novel.
As for Leah and Han…I found their relationship almost as weak and unconvincing as any of the others. You read a lovely passage, but it’s at best an isolated and unconnected sentiment. It’s notable more for its rarity than its continuity. And as revelation or explanation, it’s unsupported except by solicited leaps of the readers’ imagination. As well, we don’t get any insights into Han that might validate why he would care about those - almost any other - qualities in Leah; in fact, much of his persona seems neutral at best to what we are supposed to “know” about her.
And that problem, again, is reflected in nearly all the characters in the story. None of them, with the arguable exceptions of Luke and Karrde, have an appreciable depth of personality. Even Thrawn, brilliant a character as he certainly is, fails to translate under the weight of current standards of what makes a great villain. For all his acumen and refreshing differences from other SW antagonists, he’s motivations are uninspired and cartoonish. All of this makes sense, however, since Zahn was obviously much younger and unseasoned in many of the nuances he thankfully displays in most of his more recent novels. Just as he’s done away with his too-frequent call backs to the films that pepper the Heir trilogy, his characters now have much greater depth.
We need a movie adaptation of the trawn/ascendency books
Great video dude! Keep it up
My favorite is the Jedi Academy books but I never read these yet :o
Wow I didn´t realise how much this trilogy influenced the Canon. I just read it recently and recognised Tantiss from the Bad Batch and was thrilled to see that they gave this place some more lore and I knew about Thrawn from Rebels and later the Ahsoka Series, but that this trilogy also "invented" Coruscant? I´m having a bindblown moment rn that I probably shouldn´t have.
Great video.. Thanks for making it man. Your outline could be tighter to flow better. I stuck around because I knew what you were talking about and was excited to hear more.
but if your trying to hook new people or the majority of the audience that doesn't know about the eu I think you are going to lose them in the beginning to middilish part. You kinda splinter off and need to have a focus lightning rod that builds everything around it to keep people engaged.
Just my two cents love the content and subbed either way.. Gl
another very intersting thing: you might be familiar that german dubs most foreign movies since the dawn of time, which means luke, han, leia, etc. all have their own german voice-actors which gave us an amazing thrawn-trilogy audiobook with the original german voice acting cast, sound effects, etc etc. its brilliant
The English audiobooks at least have music and sound effects.
Sure it only has the one guy narrating the whole thing, but his acting talent is pretty good considering the range of characters he needed to cover with both impersinations of the established movie cast and making up new ones, plus having filters applied where appropriate(radios, helmets, driods, some alien species, and so on)
@@RipOffProductionsLLC thats also very cool!
It's very well edited, very nice
In the last trilogy I believe they made mara jade into that short alien that had a crush on chewie
Great video
the EU is lovingly called legends by the community you can look up legends maps and such to find what all books exist good luck! im not even sure if i know of em all
Great content dude
Thrawn is probably my secoms favouritr SW character
New Star Wars channel!!! Good luck sir
I listened to this trilogy recently and it really is excellent
The noghri were on the cover of the books. Can't get more Canon than that.
Can’t wait to see what you think of dark empire
I just found this channel it is great
That was the sequel we should have gotten; the sequel we deserved.
In the books and in a lesser extent, Thrawn is scary. Like Spock with with a beard.
as a big Thrawn fan i dont really like that hes in Rebels and Ahsoka since hes never going to be the full badass that he is due to the good guys needing to win. However its still great to see him in the universe.
Wait... if Thrawn would've transported those creatures, wouldn't they have negated the force powers of Ahsoka and her companions if their abilities added up?
Is this trilogy in textual form or is it done in comic style? Either way, I would definitely read it.
There are both books and comics, the audiobooks are also very well done.
@@reinhardt3090 thank you very much. Will check both of them put for sure.👍
Like commented and subscribed 👍
This video creates Warm faces