When he came back in after presenting a deadly threat I would think he has another gun with him knowing I have a gun. STOP The threat , keep shooting until you drive him down to the ground. Great video. Great comments. Terrible tactics by the store owners.
One thing they did right that saved them, despite their mistakes, was that at no time did they stop fighting. Without that determination to overcome regardless, there is never any victory. Given that women usually have a genetic resistance to hurting other people, and they've been taught to try to talk their way out of trouble, I think they did well. The guy tried to play them when he got close enough to mom to grab her gun. Millennia of social programming on women to submit to a dominant male allowed him to knock her guard down; but she still came up fighting. It takes a certain kind of fire-in-the-belly to fight and survive. Despite all the social hobbles on them these two women rose to the challenge. We who are not LEOs or Combat Vets should do as well. Keep up the good work Kevin, we need it and you make things plain enough for anyone paying attention to understand.
Bravo Dave Withe to recognize the courage of these two individuals to fight back and not be as livestock led to slaughter. They fought. They won! I count four definitive hits. 1 leg and 3 torso. 2 large caliber and 2 by the looks of it smaller caliber in the end stopping the threat. Could it have been more efficiently done with better training and tactics? Of course it could have, but the ending was the result of enough courage and will to prevail. That is not luck! That is courage and will to survive a nightmare situation few will ever experience. Kevin of course your points are valid and training as well as immediate firearm access on person is the ultimate preparation. But I am also a firm believer in the body cannot go where the mind has not already been as well as the attitude, "I will to not become a victim." These two individuals had already ran through such a scenario in their minds in my opinion and were at least of that same mindset to confront the threat. With better training I do agree there would have been less risk to both of them however. Were they lucky? perhaps. I prefer to believe they had the will to survive and the courage to prevail. I applaud them both!
Luck is not a skill! Some serious training is needed for those ladies. Besides, those two working by themselves in a liquor store? KEEP THE GUNS ON YOU!!!
I don't know how anyone working in a convenience store, liquor store, gas mart wouldn't feel the need to get some kind of firearms training. Having said that, my understanding is some shops don't allow employees to have firearms on their person, which is insane.
Part of the confusion is probably due to lack of training and maybe a lack of understanding of their legal status in self defense. A combat mindset WITH solid legal footing is necessary to perform properly.
I occasionally CC but generally OC: I'm aware of my surroundings... in this case, had they been trained AND OC, it would be a hard target. With that said, this guy admitted he was 'hopped up' and their lack of training showed. Sad.
I fully realize she is calling 911. However, it is not the time to be on the phone, with your head tilted into your shoulder trying to hold the phone, with your gun pointed at someone, your mother is getting pistol whipped, and you're getting shot at. Call when the situation has been de-escalated, and the threat has been neutralized.
So I should continue to engage the threat until the threat is down and unable to resist? What if the suspect lives and sues me in civil court for defending myself when they are clearly guilty of a felony? What if the suspect dies and I'm arrested and charged even though I'm clearly within my rights to defend my life?
Kyle, if you are in imminent danger of grave bodily harm or death, in most states lethal force would be necessary. We always advise in shooting to stop the threat. Once that threat is down, then get help to you while being situationally aware. It is a possibility that the suspect could sue you in civil court. That is where the USCCA has our member's backs for the criminal and civil portions of their self-defense cases. Every case is different based on the incident and the laws of the state. It is always a good thing to be protected physically as well as legally and financially.
USCCA. Thank You for this advice. It's just I live in MA where even respectful gun owners go to prison even if they are innocent due to Healeys' corruption and public opinion. I plan on joining USCCA for your self defense insurance policies soon.
Besides all the points you make in the video, firing at a fleeing suspect can be questionable although we didn't get a clear view in the direction of the fleeing suspect.
If he presented a shotgun and is fleeing he may be moving to get advantage and kill me. I will shoot at him as long as he is in the store until he leaves the store and is moving clearly to escape. Even if he drops the shotgun he may have a handgun. I will shoot him in the back if he is moving with the gun or is clearly escaping. He may leave the store and shoot another person. If he has the gun he gets shot at as long as I can safely do so.
yes, and interpretation of the laws. Many states have solid laws but in certain counties they are ignored for grandstanding prosecution. In Illinois we have solid self defense laws like Utah but states attys will try to prosecute in liberal counties.
Messy. How many mistakes? Way too many. Those 2 were lucky, could have been worse. Glad they're safe, I hope they take some classes, they got lots to learn. I am wondering, what does the store owner policy say, for strapped weapon?
After all else failed the daughter should have closed the distance while he was struggling with Mom and unloaded. Of course they could have also been in shock when the attacker was shot and didn't just give up the ghost like in all the movies amongst the rest of the panic they were going through.all and all I guess they got the job done and weren't injured. That's about all you can hope for in a gunfight.
I'm glad the mother and daughter survived this incident. It could've been worse.
Every gunfight caught on video is a learning experience for all of us. Thank you for the presentation.
Wow I lost count of all the cringe worthy points in that encounter. Glad the mother/daughter came out unharmed in the end
Glad you reviewed this. I couldn’t figure out what was going on with him in and out of shops.
When he came back in after presenting a deadly threat I would think he has another gun with him knowing I have a gun. STOP The threat , keep shooting until you drive him down to the ground. Great video. Great comments. Terrible tactics by the store owners.
I saw them on the news & they said the reason he came back was they told him they recognized him. They should have kept that to them selves.
One thing they did right that saved them, despite their mistakes, was that at no time did they stop fighting. Without that determination to overcome regardless, there is never any victory.
Given that women usually have a genetic resistance to hurting other people, and they've been taught to try to talk their way out of trouble, I think they did well.
The guy tried to play them when he got close enough to mom to grab her gun. Millennia of social programming on women to submit to a dominant male allowed him to knock her guard down; but she still came up fighting.
It takes a certain kind of fire-in-the-belly to fight and survive. Despite all the social hobbles on them these two women rose to the challenge. We who are not LEOs or Combat Vets should do as well.
Keep up the good work Kevin, we need it and you make things plain enough for anyone paying attention to understand.
Bravo Dave Withe to recognize the courage of these two individuals to fight back and not be as livestock led to slaughter. They fought. They won! I count four definitive hits. 1 leg and 3 torso. 2 large caliber and 2 by the looks of it smaller caliber in the end stopping the threat. Could it have been more efficiently done with better training and tactics? Of course it could have, but the ending was the result of enough courage and will to prevail. That is not luck! That is courage and will to survive a nightmare situation few will ever experience.
Kevin of course your points are valid and training as well as immediate firearm access on person is the ultimate preparation. But I am also a firm believer in the body cannot go where the mind has not already been as well as the attitude, "I will to not become a victim." These two individuals had already ran through such a scenario in their minds in my opinion and were at least of that same mindset to confront the threat. With better training I do agree there would have been less risk to both of them however. Were they lucky? perhaps. I prefer to believe they had the will to survive and the courage to prevail. I applaud them both!
Excellent teaching/training points. I'm glad they survived.
Luck is not a skill! Some serious training is needed for those ladies. Besides, those two working by themselves in a liquor store? KEEP THE GUNS ON YOU!!!
I don't know how anyone working in a convenience store, liquor store, gas mart wouldn't feel the need to get some kind of firearms training. Having said that, my understanding is some shops don't allow employees to have firearms on their person, which is insane.
Hope they played the lottery !! They were lucky winners in the robbery attempt.
Good analysis. Still scary to watch (and this is my fourth time). When the robber grabs the mother...
They where very lucky. They also need training.
fwacfred yes!! Lots of training!!! I'm sure they're considering that now. Lucky for them that there can be a next time.
They would really benefit from some common sense.
someone needs to get the two women a subscription to into the fray
Part of the confusion is probably due to lack of training and maybe a lack of understanding of their legal status in self defense. A combat mindset WITH solid legal footing is necessary to perform properly.
My guess is they were using target ammo. The right ammo can make a difference! And yes, they made a bunch of mistakes.
Very instructive
Glad you broke it down Kevin.
On the scene report, right Kevin? 😉
I like the new format
Good advice.
Great advice.
I occasionally CC but generally OC: I'm aware of my surroundings... in this case, had they been trained AND OC, it would be a hard target.
With that said, this guy admitted he was 'hopped up' and their lack of training showed. Sad.
You should do more videos like this awesome
Very good, video.
What the hell is the daughter doing? On the cellphone when this is going on? WTF? Screw the cellphone. Im gonna make someone's day!
She could have been calling 911 to get help there, Future.
I fully realize she is calling 911. However, it is not the time to be on the phone, with your head tilted into your shoulder trying to hold the phone, with your gun pointed at someone, your mother is getting pistol whipped, and you're getting shot at. Call when the situation has been de-escalated, and the threat has been neutralized.
Or just give an address and leave the line open.
So I should continue to engage the threat until the threat is down and unable to resist? What if the suspect lives and sues me in civil court for defending myself when they are clearly guilty of a felony? What if the suspect dies and I'm arrested and charged even though I'm clearly within my rights to defend my life?
Kyle, if you are in imminent danger of grave bodily harm or death, in most states lethal force would be necessary. We always advise in shooting to stop the threat. Once that threat is down, then get help to you while being situationally aware.
It is a possibility that the suspect could sue you in civil court. That is where the USCCA has our member's backs for the criminal and civil portions of their self-defense cases.
Every case is different based on the incident and the laws of the state. It is always a good thing to be protected physically as well as legally and financially.
USCCA. Thank You for this advice. It's just I live in MA where even respectful gun owners go to prison even if they are innocent due to Healeys' corruption and public opinion. I plan on joining USCCA for your self defense insurance policies soon.
You are very welcome, Kyle! We look forward to having you with the USCCA family!
I think he was hit more than once.
Besides all the points you make in the video, firing at a fleeing suspect can be questionable although we didn't get a clear view in the direction of the fleeing suspect.
If he presented a shotgun and is fleeing he may be moving to get advantage and kill me. I will shoot at him as long as he is in the store until he leaves the store and is moving clearly to escape. Even if he drops the shotgun he may have a handgun. I will shoot him in the back if he is moving with the gun or is clearly escaping. He may leave the store and shoot another person. If he has the gun he gets shot at as long as I can safely do so.
I believe this is where the state laws vary.
yes, and interpretation of the laws. Many states have solid laws but in certain counties they are ignored for grandstanding prosecution. In Illinois we have solid self defense laws like Utah but states attys will try to prosecute in liberal counties.
Driverq5 - Indeed! Stop the threat! Until the criminal drops his weapon, he is a threat.
This is why you need to carry a large capacity gun like a glock 19 or sw sd9ve w/ a spare mag or spare gun(NY carry)
They weren't lucky they were blessed.
Messy. How many mistakes? Way too many. Those 2 were lucky, could have been worse. Glad they're safe, I hope they take some classes, they got lots to learn. I am wondering, what does the store owner policy say, for strapped weapon?
That is a good question, Lissajous Curve!
Any idea what the tiny little semi-auto is the girl is using? Beretta Tomcat maybe?
Thanks for watching, ryfish5! Unfortunately, we do not know which firearm the girl in the surveillance video was using.
you're 100% right, that is a very stupid mistake lol
That whole situation was a train wreck looks like they didnt have a game plan
After all else failed the daughter should have closed the distance while he was struggling with Mom and unloaded. Of course they could have also been in shock when the attacker was shot and didn't just give up the ghost like in all the movies amongst the rest of the panic they were going through.all and all I guess they got the job done and weren't injured. That's about all you can hope for in a gunfight.
Lucky. Very lucky.
❤️❤️❤️❤️
Im glad it turned out ok for the mother and daughter but it was a very sloppy defensive tactic they used and it could have went the other way .
They got lucky in the middle of an unlucky encounter.
When he went through the front they should have left through the back, don’t stay!
What if there was no way out in the back?
He go sue they ass
wow they were lucky they did not shoot each other
Were the calibers 380's? I mean they shot the guy 5 times and he finally dropped? 40 cal. knock him off his feet.....
Mom should've emptied point blank center mass when he approached numerous times....then daughter follow up.
Greed Kevin. They are lucky
Very poor training
Women talk too much as usual. Don't have a conversation with the criminal make him run or drop. It's no time to have a chat.