Baelish always wanted Katelin Stark nee Arryn. He ended up settling for Lysa as his step on the ladder to power. Varys is making the connection that Baelish would see Lysa having a certain appeal while being an old ugly thing. Hence, the Lysa Arryn of Chairs.
Season 2 Varys: “Power resides where men believe it resides” Most brilliant mind in Westaros Season 8 Varys: “Y U Telling Eunuch Jokes Tyrionn 😭” Commits treason in broad daylight like a moron D&D irreparably fucked the show up
You’d think after all those years the writers would have the eunuch jokes out of their system so they can stop doing them now, but no, they apparently gotten more numerous
season 2, when littlefinger tried the chaos line on Tywin: "You say that as if you're the first man alive to think it. Yes, a crisis is an opportunity... What other brilliant insights have you brought for me today..."
Season 3: "Chaos isnt a pit. Chaos is a ladder. Many who try to climb it fail. Never get to try again. The fall breaks them, and some are given a chance to climb. But they refuse, they cling to the realm. For the gods. For love. Illusions. Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is..." Season 8: hAhA vArYs nO WiNkY
The worst part of this whole thing is that this was a TV show exclusive thing. They fucking wrote this masterpiece and then shat out the dog shit that was s6, s7 and s8
G. R. R. Martin said in one interview that he understands why. Producers would need the biggest filming set ever to even fit a small facsimile of the true thing. In the books, it's so big that most of the swords are just stairs to get to the throne on top.
"a story we agreed to tell each other over and over until we forget thas it's a lie!" The delivery of Aidan Gillen in this phrase is haunting, and probably my favorite phrase in the entire show. I miss these days
As awesome as these scenes are, I can only imagine walking past someone while they are having this off the cuff conversation, and think "WTF are they talking about"
+CinnamonCari Yeah I usually discuss how I had one of my employees brutally killed because it turned out she was spying on me for my political nemesis, thwarting my plan to seize absolute power over my country. Generally we discuss it while eating french fries and coke.
I love how Varys is genuinely disturbed by Baelish's sociopathy. You can hear the '...oh my god he's crazy' in his voice. This probably sets him on the path to throwing his lot in with Dany and her flying flamethrowers.
Personally, I think the scariest thing is that Baelish is NOT crazy. You realize that he intends to PERSONALLY benefit from the chaos he seeds, and that he doesn't care one bit about anyone else who gets in his way or the thousands of innocents who will suffer so that he can get what he wants. Varys is willing to make people suffer to uphold the 'greater good' of the realm for everyone...which Littlefinger derides (somewhat rightly) as a lie. Varys has dedicated himself to an ideal which will never be reached. Incidentally, this is what kills Varys in the end. He thought the mother of dragons was an idealist...when it turns out, she wanted power more than the good of idealism. Littlefinger of course, also has a flawed view...because if only the ladder is real, then once you reach the top...there is nothing to prevent a fall. No friends remain to save him once his treachery is revealed. This story has some great plot points and themes. It's a pity that the TV writers were unable to properly execute the later seasons.
@@dclark142002 By Varys's metric, people should have higher goals than just avarice. Baelish explaining he really is just greedy and wants power for the sake of it, makes his philosophy _completely_ opposite to Varys's stated goal of good governance.
That’s not who Varys is fighting for and I don’t think anything Peter says changes his course.. even this discussion Varys is arguing not to abandon the lie of the Targaryen rule.. Varys wants order and to maintain the illusion of Targaryen rule even if it isn’t a Targaryen dont abandon the illusion otherwise chaos
@@dclark142002 "doesn't care one bit about anyone else who gets in his way or the thousands of innocents who will suffer so that he can get what he wants." Yeah thats called being a sociopath, which I think most normal people would describe as a mental illness, also known as being crazy.
Littlefinger can literally talk about eating ice cream and it would still sound chilling “vanilla taken from exotic tropical lands in the far south, it does provide a great deal of enjoyment”
Although he is kinda portrayed as a villain, I can't help but admire how god damn intelligent Littlefinger is! I always expect little inputs from him to have massive impacts!
He isn't a villain, Littlefinger is playing the game of thrones like everybody else except he started from nothing so he has to be more discreet about his plans.
@@Yuval012 Yes, Bran/Raven used chaos as a ladder. 'He was always known as an excellent climber until he was pushed. So he learned to climb anothrt way/ He played everyone and did not die.
I think this is a way the show displays the real "game of thrones" Varys is the symbol of order, Littlefinger the symbol of chaos. The real battle is between these two, not the Starks vs Lannisters/Boltons/Tyrells/Tullys. Both have wealth, spies, and power, and they control who goes where, who marries who, and the ultimate fate of Westeros.
Remember when we thought these two would survive until the end? But of course that turned out to be impossible as the horrible writing caused the demise of these two.
Those were the days. There was a time I dreamed of when littlefinger would be so close to claiming the Iron Throne for himself, he could practically make it a reality. To climb to the highest rung on the ladder, almost within reach of his goal, but then something would happen to make him fall and break spectacularly from such a height. To be so close only for it to be snatched away by chance or cruel fate. Baelish's death in the show just seemed...premature.
I need a super crying baby image to put here. Cause, WAAAAA wwaa WWAHHHHHHH ah WAAA! (Also, you are entirely correct.) After this scene, I almost felt certain that the entire freakin' "Game" was between Varys and Littlefinger. Wouldn't *that* have been a great ending?
@@Rigatony32 also, people assume that the song of ice and fire are between john and dany, but I think it is more than that. It might be littlefinger and varys, because cersei ever said to littlefinger "for a man who has so many songs to sing". I mean, it would be too generic if it's about john and dany, and it's not what GRRM wanted. He even says in the interview, the protagonist doesn't have to be likeable or moral or a good person, it only has to be interesting. The most interesting character in the show are littlefinger and varys, since they both are the one who made all of the events in that world. The series should've end up one of those two characters win the game and the other being some kind of "final boss", since if one of them died, the event of the game might won't happen again.
@@robpolaris7272 little finger was my favorite and I expected him to connive his way to the top..... but no the writers decided he needed to play games and gossip with 2 sisters.
It is the classic chaos vs order debate, which is why Varys and Littlefinger are the 2 most important people in the series, and will probably end up destroying each other.
These scenes are that kind of 'never before in TV show history'. The grandeur of rhetorics, the assertion of manners, complexion, and the intimidating philosophy underneath.
I think there's a difference. Littlefinger used chaos as a means of creating opportunity for himself, whereas The Joker's end goal IS chaos in of itself. I'd say Baelish is more Neutral Evil and Joker is Chaotic Evil.
No, he is not. Not even close. Joker was irrational, he wanted chaos just for the sake of it. Littlefinger is selfish and very, very, very rational (from his own perspective). He needs chaos to climb the ladder.
I feel like Varys and Petyr are the 2 major players in the game of thrones. Varys is on the "good" side, Petyr on the "bad"...excited to see what the future brings for them both!
+Laura Search for "what is Varys up to?" There you can learn that Varys has a very bloody way of bringing peace and prosperity to the realm. And i would say that he is by no means "good"
+ishouldbeascientist notice the quotation marks :P what I mean is his long term intentions seem to be for the benefit of the realm, whereas Petyr's are for his own gain
Yes!!! This has what I've been saying since the first season. I feel like they are the covert protagonists of the entire series-born disenfranchised, poor, with nothing to help them but their own cunning. Dany and Jon Snow, while both disadvantaged in their own ways (Dany as a woman in Westeros, Jon Snow as a bastard), they were both born into immense wealth and royalty which gave them more access to opportunity. I wouldn't be surprised if Littlefinger fights his way all the way to the top, with only Varys standing in his way.
This was, of course, intercut with Jon and Ygritte climbing the wall. At the top, having just barely survived the ordeal, they kiss passionately, because they're deeply in love. Something Baelish has never known, though no doubt he thinks what he felt for Catelyn (later Sansa), motivated largely, even then, by his desire to climb, is the most anyone has ever felt for anyone else. This contrast deepens the scene, because for all his cunning pragmatism and realpolitik, Lord Littlefinger has no wisdom to impart. His vision of the world is not a ladder but a dark and dismal tunnel. Leading to nothing but an unmarked grave. Where no one will ever mourn for him. It's important to remind the viewer that brilliant as his speech is, it's just another lie.
Invoked the war of the seven kingdoms, brought his unnotable house to near total influence, played puppet master and shaped the very being of Westeros to his own will, harnessed a covert level of power only dreamt of by most, ended up requiring literal second sight to indict him of treason. Sure, I can see how a single instance of unrequited love invalidates any semblance of, in your words, “wisdom” or “depth”in Littlefinger’s vision. He is a evil and ruthless man, but relegating all his accomplishments and insights into a one dimensional caricature due to an incongruity in personal values makes for a rather vacuous and foolish statement.
I've watched this scene alone probably 14 times and feel ashamed it took me so long to realize Littlefinger's friend that wants to try new things was Joffrey...I always thought they just showed Joffrey and Sansa to show us how chaos is rising.
Littlefinger is a little traitorous bitch, nothing more. Joffrey is the one I hate the most, but Littlefinger is immediately behind him. He would trade his mother for slice of power.
RayPall Im telling ya, littlefinger is the one you should watch out for.. This theory isnt cannon and has been disproven by those who actually read the books but to me it makes sense. Littlefinger started off as nothing but somehow became ward for jon aryan, then he went to kings landing as the master of coin. Its obvious he got that position through jon aryan because he was former hand of the king. Anyways, he had a thing for catlyn you know, well she was betrothed to brandon stark, neds older brother. Brandon was a bit of a hot head, and brandon was the one who started robert's rebellion. Cat said brandon and littlefinger dueled each other for her hand but littlefinger lost. lawl. But heres where it gets interesting...my theory is that brandon went to kings landing to yell at aerys/rhager only after littlefinger told him lyanna was kidnapped by rhager. Why would he go to kings landing to yell at someone that has run away from the capital? I bet he got the letter that lyanna sent to rhager saying im okay but im eloping with rhager. Littlefinger didnt share this vital piece of information, he just went ahead and told brandon his sister was kidnapped by rhager. So in essence he started the war that ended the dynasty of the targaryens.. Back to my point, he came from nothing,now he is one of the most powerful lords in westeros. He wants a tully wife for some reason. He gets what he wants because he is a pimp.. in the literal sense
Lysa is his second choice to Catylyn. He knew them both growing up and always wanted to get together with Catylyn, but he was not highborn enough and also got beaten bloody by Brandon (ned's older brother) when he tried to claim her. So he rose high using his brain instead of brawn
„The Winds of Winter? Do you know what the Winds of Winter is? It’s the thousands of fake release dates, a story we tell each other over and over, till we forget that it’s a lie”
@@Horus_the_Lupercal Being interesting and being relatable aren't mutually exclusive. That isn't rule number one, that is common damn sense, you aren't making a character to make them boring.
Until they turns him dumb by giving Sansa to The Boltons, the same family who killed his childhood crush, Caitlyn who is also Sansa's mother. If he loves and cares for her very much, why would he sacrifce her daughter to them?
This was the best scene for the entire series. I literally couldn't wait till episode seven aired the following Sunday! Season 3 period was spectacular! As were season 1 and 2.
If you ever watch the actor who played Littlefinger even in a goofy movie like Shanghai Knights his performance was top notch and menacing. He is an excellent actor who always brings it to the table.
OMG!! _That's_ where I recognize him from. I've had the hardest time placing him, yet I was certain I had seen him act somewhere before. Now I think I need to go re-watch Shanghai Knights! 👍
The mind to think of this kind of dialogue is remarkable. To sit, think of this entire world, put it all together, and one man did it. I'm considered an intelligent man professionally, and yet I don't have the headspace to comprehend writing a world like this
Some things George RR did was read books like “life in a medieval castle” which helped him to understand real history and then blend the fictional intrigue we so do love. But yeah storytellers are awesome
This kind of writing makes GOT way above soo many other shows I don't even understand how vikings is compared to this Baelish n Varys don't need swords... but the scene is proper. The writing the tone n the music playing in the scene 🔥 📛
In my opinion these two characters made the series alive. To be able to believe in a city like kings landing it would not be enough with the kings and ned and jaime. When I first saw the series I thought Varys and Littlefinger were so believable and good that I got completely immersed
I really liked littlefingers character in the early seasons, smart, witty and devious. I kind of hoped he would play a bigger role in the whole story and would be part of an amazing plot twist, instead they turned him into sad a moron.
His cunning was only effective when he only cared about himself. But he had cared a lot about about a woman before too, so what happened in the end wasn't totally out of character.
He started the War of the Seven Kingdoms to make the Seven Kingdoms plunge into chaos, all so he could grab lands and titles in the chaos, and this is pretty much where he admits it. Still can't believe they killed off such an important character that has shown constant cunning in such a stupid way. The Littlefinger I know would never have stuck around after Bran threw this line right in his face. Bran literally said "I know everything" and Littlefinger was like "nah, he won't tell Sanda and Arya". Come on man 😂
This is season 3 episode 6, "The Climb". For some reason, I've always found this to be the most memorable episode of the entire series. But that's just me.
Great scene. Shame those two never meet again. -.-' A quote from the books is: "Roose plays with men. You and me, these Freys, Lord Manderly, his plump new wife, even his bastard, we are but his playthings." Sometimes I think this quote much suit much better to Littlefinger. XD And I do love Shae in the series. Her true feelings for Tyrion and her friendship with Sansa a such an improvement.
Nearly every interaction between Littlefinger and Varys was like a work of art, with this scene bing thew best. Littlefinger's monologue really does have a lot of real world applications. Myths are often re-told countless times over a prolonged period of time, with the story growing ever larger with the passage of time, until that story no longer so much as resembles the truth. These stories can grow to the extent that massive social structures, such as religions, grow out of them. And this is where Varys makes a good point - what happens when you strip away the myth? For Varys, the answer is clear - it's best to hand on to the myth as revealing the truth can lead to something as serious as societal collapse. For Littlefinger, destroying the myth is a good thing, for it brings about the conditions for major change. So which man is actually right? Depends on circumstance and perspective, I suppose.
There was a time when I thought the final scene, of the final episode, of the final season... would be these two... just talking about chaos and order.
Varys is not evil guy, he is a guy who would do anything for the greater good of a united realm, because he know what coming ( if that mean being dishonorable or killing or getting someone kill then oh we'll) Little Finger care about doing anything that could help him become King (just like Varys say, if that mean burning down the country to become King of the ashes so be it). But the other major player of the game is the Red Woman, who goal is to have her religion and god The Lord of Light, be the one and only religion and get rid of the 7 gods and old gods religions. So far with her curse on people, she is in the lead in the game between her, Little Finger and the Spider.
So we see that LittleFinger has the first act of the story. He pitted the Lannisters against the Starks. Im intrigued about what Varys has planned for the dragons part, coming up. #JustOnePenLegend 🚶🏾♂️
Rewatching this makes me so upset. The first 4 seasons were so intriguing and compelling. Now compare this scene to how these 2 characters ended. I cannot fathom how they wrote it so poorly... a child, a monkey, etc. could have written a better ending. And now that trash is sealed in time for all of us to live with.
I think Varys was saying that the chair Littlefinger was sitting on was the Lysa Arryn of chairs. He wants to be King but must settle for being on the King's council, much like how he loved Catelyn but is marrying Lysa.
I actually believe that littlefinger and varys are inspired in fouche and talleyrand the 2 men who control france through 5 different governments. Fouche have a giant network of spies and never have too much noble titles, his power was behind sceen. Talleyrand was good with money, and was the best diplomat. He play with both russia and france in the war, and as littlefinger make the alliance tyrell-lannister he make the alliance russia-prussia possible. Also he was reward with the best lordships, just as littlefinger.
I'd like to think that if Baelish- Mustache-twirlingly evil as he is- Won the Game of Thrones, he would have given Varys a nice house by the sea and stripped him of all titles, essentially under a polite house arrest. Would have been such a cool end to his character if they shook hands and said, "Well-played" without killing each other out of spite
Petyr would absolutely not abide with Varys’ existence under any circumstance if he didn’t have to. Varys doesn’t have power from titles, or swords, or even his own freedom, but through his own ever-reaching ever-lasting invisible hands that grope and mould the realm. Those hands only disappear when he does, and littlefinger knows that the last thing Varys’ thinks is that him being on the throne is “good for the realm”. He has to go. Petyr doesn’t even have to know about young griff or Varys’ connections to Daeny for him to act.
The theory of Littlefinger vs Varys is an interesting one. That the show is ultimately about these two characters- two master manipulators, one for the traditional old ways and the other a revolutionary- is how I like to see it. And I have to say, I'm rooting for Littlefinger. He wants to uproot a rotten monarchy that has seen the high born families have thousands murdered because of their claims.
Sam Mallett it is the real song of ice and fire.. littlefinger with the north (ice) and varys with the targaryeans (fire). varys vs littlefinger is the real song of ice and fire
I miss these sort of things in GoT. Now, it is becoming like the walking dead. Just the same characters repeating the same lines in different ways. Jon's 'DA ARMY OF DUH DED" speech is getting as sickeningly tiresome as Rick Grime's "WE GOTTA SURVIIIIVVVE, CARRRL"
What Littlefinger doesn't get is chaos maybe a latter but it's a very wobbly one and all too often has someone at the bottom waiting to kick it out from under you when you climb.
Notice the dove on the sails, that's Littlefingure's ship. Sansa is crying cause she lost her last chance to escape the capital because she would rather have had the chance to marry Sir Loras.
I love this so much. A man who covets the throne and will gladly destroy the kingdom to get it and a man who wouldn't sit there if it was offered to him who just wants prosperity for the people. The dialogue was so good then.
I actually sympathize with LF. He is as much of a victim of his era as he's a villain. He was a guy who once believed in love, honor, justice and courage. But he was victimized because of his belief. He thought a small guy like himself can win against a much larger opponent like a story in the book, if he fought with honor. But he hadn't realized that he fought a system where small guys are meant to be kept down, especially if they believed in honor. He is the Edmond Dantes of Westoros.
![Tyrion Doesn't Need Janos Slynt [HD]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/z0VXYz7cjGE/mqdefault.jpg)
"The Lysa Aryn of chairs, shame you had to settle for 2nd choice" Damn I completely missed Varys' savagery the first time I saw this :))
right? holy shit dude, for a eunuch the dude has some balls.
I didn't got can you explain
Ninad Patil Varys said it was an “old ugly thing.” Baelish said, yet” it had a certain appeal.” So you have the Lysa Arryn of Chairs. A savage joke.
I didn't really get that part probably just me being stupid.
Baelish always wanted Katelin Stark nee Arryn. He ended up settling for Lysa as his step on the ladder to power.
Varys is making the connection that Baelish would see Lysa having a certain appeal while being an old ugly thing. Hence, the Lysa Arryn of Chairs.
The dialogue really went from:
"Chaos is a ladder!"
To
"Hey, Varys!"
"What?"
"yOu dOn'T hAvE bAlLs!"
Season 2 Varys: “Power resides where men believe it resides”
Most brilliant mind in Westaros
Season 8 Varys: “Y U Telling Eunuch Jokes Tyrionn 😭”
Commits treason in broad daylight like a moron
D&D irreparably fucked the show up
You’d think after all those years the writers would have the eunuch jokes out of their system so they can stop doing them now, but no, they apparently gotten more numerous
They made eunuch jokes throughout the entire show it didn't start in s8
It also annoyed me so much how in the later seasons they kept reusing iconic lines from the early days. Make up new shit you lazy mofos!
@@Hfsm33 it's not even laziness, it's sheer lack of talent to write without guidance.
season 2, when littlefinger tried the chaos line on Tywin:
"You say that as if you're the first man alive to think it. Yes, a crisis is an opportunity... What other brilliant insights have you brought for me today..."
Good answer indeed. Yet, the plan presented thereafter is exactly what won the lannisters the war of the five kings.
Tywin: no shit sherlock.
Tywin next scene to tyrian chaos is a ladder but you were too drunk to climb it.
When did it happen? 😮😮😮
I checked.
Season 3: "Chaos isnt a pit. Chaos is a ladder. Many who try to climb it fail. Never get to try again. The fall breaks them, and some are given a chance to climb. But they refuse, they cling to the realm. For the gods. For love. Illusions. Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is..."
Season 8: hAhA vArYs nO WiNkY
It is so goddamn true...
Season 3: ^^^
Season 8: She is MAH Kween
The worst part of this whole thing is that this was a TV show exclusive thing.
They fucking wrote this masterpiece and then shat out the dog shit that was s6, s7 and s8
@@adamharvey8444 s6 was good tbf. s5 was hella boring, mid and poorly written tho
lmao rn
In the books, the Iron Throne actually is made of 1000 swords. It's much bigger than the show's version
StarKiller 56 Different universes. Poke a hole in reality and next door to GoT you will find ASoIaF
0:01 a reference to that
Yeah, I feel that the counting was a jab at the fact they didn’t make it as big as it is in the book.
G. R. R. Martin said in one interview that he understands why. Producers would need the biggest filming set ever to even fit a small facsimile of the true thing. In the books, it's so big that most of the swords are just stairs to get to the throne on top.
The prequel version is going to be a good bit bigger, not the same but at least big enough to evoke a similar sense of size
"a story we agreed to tell each other over and over until we forget thas it's a lie!"
The delivery of Aidan Gillen in this phrase is haunting, and probably my favorite phrase in the entire show. I miss these days
now we have shitty ass HOTD dialogue
@@lelouchsnanyra : vhagar is big but syrax is quicker (so was your son’s dragon Arrax, you dumb)
As awesome as these scenes are, I can only imagine walking past someone while they are having this off the cuff conversation, and think "WTF are they talking about"
+TheCulturalBomb LOL!
yeah, but this kind of conversations happen irl
+CinnamonCari Yeah I usually discuss how I had one of my employees brutally killed because it turned out she was spying on me for my political nemesis, thwarting my plan to seize absolute power over my country.
Generally we discuss it while eating french fries and coke.
@Rey Mustayne lol
Well they r the controllers of nearly all the spies in the city.
I love how Varys is genuinely disturbed by Baelish's sociopathy. You can hear the '...oh my god he's crazy' in his voice. This probably sets him on the path to throwing his lot in with Dany and her flying flamethrowers.
Personally, I think the scariest thing is that Baelish is NOT crazy. You realize that he intends to PERSONALLY benefit from the chaos he seeds, and that he doesn't care one bit about anyone else who gets in his way or the thousands of innocents who will suffer so that he can get what he wants.
Varys is willing to make people suffer to uphold the 'greater good' of the realm for everyone...which Littlefinger derides (somewhat rightly) as a lie. Varys has dedicated himself to an ideal which will never be reached. Incidentally, this is what kills Varys in the end. He thought the mother of dragons was an idealist...when it turns out, she wanted power more than the good of idealism.
Littlefinger of course, also has a flawed view...because if only the ladder is real, then once you reach the top...there is nothing to prevent a fall. No friends remain to save him once his treachery is revealed.
This story has some great plot points and themes. It's a pity that the TV writers were unable to properly execute the later seasons.
@@dclark142002 By Varys's metric, people should have higher goals than just avarice.
Baelish explaining he really is just greedy and wants power for the sake of it, makes his philosophy _completely_ opposite to Varys's stated goal of good governance.
And later varys about Dany - "...oh my god she's crazy")
That’s not who Varys is fighting for and I don’t think anything Peter says changes his course.. even this discussion Varys is arguing not to abandon the lie of the Targaryen rule.. Varys wants order and to maintain the illusion of Targaryen rule even if it isn’t a Targaryen dont abandon the illusion otherwise chaos
@@dclark142002 "doesn't care one bit about anyone else who gets in his way or the thousands of innocents who will suffer so that he can get what he wants." Yeah thats called being a sociopath, which I think most normal people would describe as a mental illness, also known as being crazy.
Scenes like this are what I love the most about the show.
ZoseDude Because they don't understand that talking alone is not what makes them good and we get "Tyrion's stand-up show" instead.
+nazael rahl agreed I miss the scenes between littlefinger and varys
See. This is what people felt this hatred didn’t come from the last season it’s existed since Season 5 even before that.
Oof
Man
Littlefinger can literally talk about eating ice cream and it would still sound chilling “vanilla taken from exotic tropical lands in the far south, it does provide a great deal of enjoyment”
Although he is kinda portrayed as a villain, I can't help but admire how god damn intelligent Littlefinger is! I always expect little inputs from him to have massive impacts!
Except Littlefinger is prone to mistakes, Varys has zero mistakes.
Michael Le His mistakes all lie with Sansa, she is his weakness.
ENDEAVOR and now Bran is littlefinger's biggest threat.
as Littlefinger said to Cersei "knowledge is power", no one can beat Bran in that aspect.
He isn't a villain, Littlefinger is playing the game of thrones like everybody else except he started from nothing so he has to be more discreet about his plans.
@@Yuval012 Yes, Bran/Raven used chaos as a ladder. 'He was always known as an excellent climber until he was pushed. So he learned to climb anothrt way/ He played everyone and did not die.
I think this is a way the show displays the real "game of thrones" Varys is the symbol of order, Littlefinger the symbol of chaos. The real battle is between these two, not the Starks vs Lannisters/Boltons/Tyrells/Tullys. Both have wealth, spies, and power, and they control who goes where, who marries who, and the ultimate fate of Westeros.
Maybe
The song of ice and fire
exactly
This ain't that deep.. however they are just pawn
@@Pkjkpjkpkj it's actually is that deep. Dualism is very heavy thing in GOT
Remember when we thought these two would survive until the end? But of course that turned out to be impossible as the horrible writing caused the demise of these two.
Those were the days. There was a time I dreamed of when littlefinger would be so close to claiming the Iron Throne for himself, he could practically make it a reality. To climb to the highest rung on the ladder, almost within reach of his goal, but then something would happen to make him fall and break spectacularly from such a height. To be so close only for it to be snatched away by chance or cruel fate. Baelish's death in the show just seemed...premature.
I need a super crying baby image to put here.
Cause, WAAAAA wwaa WWAHHHHHHH ah WAAA!
(Also, you are entirely correct.)
After this scene, I almost felt certain that the entire freakin' "Game" was between Varys and Littlefinger.
Wouldn't *that* have been a great ending?
@@Rigatony32 also, people assume that the song of ice and fire are between john and dany, but I think it is more than that. It might be littlefinger and varys, because cersei ever said to littlefinger "for a man who has so many songs to sing". I mean, it would be too generic if it's about john and dany, and it's not what GRRM wanted. He even says in the interview, the protagonist doesn't have to be likeable or moral or a good person, it only has to be interesting. The most interesting character in the show are littlefinger and varys, since they both are the one who made all of the events in that world. The series should've end up one of those two characters win the game and the other being some kind of "final boss", since if one of them died, the event of the game might won't happen again.
Which served zero purpose in the story. There was always a purpose of effect that drove the story forward in GRRM's writings.
@@robpolaris7272 little finger was my favorite and I expected him to connive his way to the top..... but no the writers decided he needed to play games and gossip with 2 sisters.
Petyr's voice took on a decidedly sinister tone in this scene and it was awesome
It is the classic chaos vs order debate, which is why Varys and Littlefinger are the 2 most important people in the series, and will probably end up destroying each other.
lol
Lmaoo they destroyed the entire series don't worry
These scenes are that kind of 'never before in TV show history'. The grandeur of rhetorics, the assertion of manners, complexion, and the intimidating philosophy underneath.
Bran: "Chaos is a ladder"
Littlefinger: :o
Hands down the greatest Littlefinger moment in the entire show thus far. He's like the Joker-an agent of chaos.
I think there's a difference. Littlefinger used chaos as a means of creating opportunity for himself, whereas The Joker's end goal IS chaos in of itself.
I'd say Baelish is more Neutral Evil and Joker is Chaotic Evil.
No, he is not. Not even close. Joker was irrational, he wanted chaos just for the sake of it. Littlefinger is selfish and very, very, very rational (from his own perspective). He needs chaos to climb the ladder.
The interactions between Varys and Littlefinger. The dialogue, the disdain and respect on either side. It's just brilliant.
I feel like Varys and Petyr are the 2 major players in the game of thrones. Varys is on the "good" side, Petyr on the "bad"...excited to see what the future brings for them both!
+Laura Search for "what is Varys up to?" There you can learn that Varys has a very bloody way of bringing peace and prosperity to the realm. And i would say that he is by no means "good"
+ishouldbeascientist notice the quotation marks :P what I mean is his long term intentions seem to be for the benefit of the realm, whereas Petyr's are for his own gain
Laura My mistake. It's still an interesting video about what Varys might be up to.
ishouldbeascientist yeah i will take a look :) Either way, very interesting characters!
Yes!!! This has what I've been saying since the first season. I feel like they are the covert protagonists of the entire series-born disenfranchised, poor, with nothing to help them but their own cunning. Dany and Jon Snow, while both disadvantaged in their own ways (Dany as a woman in Westeros, Jon Snow as a bastard), they were both born into immense wealth and royalty which gave them more access to opportunity. I wouldn't be surprised if Littlefinger fights his way all the way to the top, with only Varys standing in his way.
>_> One of the best Game of Thrones scenes for true fans.
How did I not hear that “The Lysa Arryn of chairs” BAR from Varys.
One of my favorite changes from the book to the show are the Littlefinger/Varys scenes. So good!
This was, of course, intercut with Jon and Ygritte climbing the wall. At the top, having just barely survived the ordeal, they kiss passionately, because they're deeply in love. Something Baelish has never known, though no doubt he thinks what he felt for Catelyn (later Sansa), motivated largely, even then, by his desire to climb, is the most anyone has ever felt for anyone else.
This contrast deepens the scene, because for all his cunning pragmatism and realpolitik, Lord Littlefinger has no wisdom to impart. His vision of the world is not a ladder but a dark and dismal tunnel. Leading to nothing but an unmarked grave. Where no one will ever mourn for him. It's important to remind the viewer that brilliant as his speech is, it's just another lie.
Invoked the war of the seven kingdoms, brought his unnotable house to near total influence, played puppet master and shaped the very being of Westeros to his own will, harnessed a covert level of power only dreamt of by most, ended up requiring literal second sight to indict him of treason. Sure, I can see how a single instance of unrequited love invalidates any semblance of, in your words, “wisdom” or “depth”in Littlefinger’s vision. He is a evil and ruthless man, but relegating all his accomplishments and insights into a one dimensional caricature due to an incongruity in personal values makes for a rather vacuous and foolish statement.
Well said.
I've watched this scene alone probably 14 times and feel ashamed it took me so long to realize Littlefinger's friend that wants to try new things was Joffrey...I always thought they just showed Joffrey and Sansa to show us how chaos is rising.
Littlefinger is my favorite character. Just about everyone else is an idiot in comparison.
he wanted to give the chaos speech to tywin back where he almost ran into arya.. but tywin cut him off.. tywin is the man
Littlefinger is a little traitorous bitch, nothing more. Joffrey is the one I hate the most, but Littlefinger is immediately behind him. He would trade his mother for slice of power.
RayPall Im telling ya, littlefinger is the one you should watch out for.. This theory isnt cannon and has been disproven by those who actually read the books but to me it makes sense. Littlefinger started off as nothing but somehow became ward for jon aryan, then he went to kings landing as the master of coin. Its obvious he got that position through jon aryan because he was former hand of the king. Anyways, he had a thing for catlyn you know, well she was betrothed to brandon stark, neds older brother. Brandon was a bit of a hot head, and brandon was the one who started robert's rebellion. Cat said brandon and littlefinger dueled each other for her hand but littlefinger lost. lawl. But heres where it gets interesting...my theory is that brandon went to kings landing to yell at aerys/rhager only after littlefinger told him lyanna was kidnapped by rhager. Why would he go to kings landing to yell at someone that has run away from the capital? I bet he got the letter that lyanna sent to rhager saying im okay but im eloping with rhager. Littlefinger didnt share this vital piece of information, he just went ahead and told brandon his sister was kidnapped by rhager. So in essence he started the war that ended the dynasty of the targaryens.. Back to my point, he came from nothing,now he is one of the most powerful lords in westeros. He wants a tully wife for some reason. He gets what he wants because he is a pimp.. in the literal sense
RayPall yes, but he's still so attractive
Tony Abraham oh. my. god.
Ah so this is the episode that Bran just finished watching
This is one of the best scenes in the whole damn show. So powerful and outstanding acting and dialogue.
The worst part is knowing that Dumb and Dumber wrote this scene themselves, showing they actually did have talent when they actually cared.
one of the best scenes in the series, they are so good together,
GOT is a game between baelish and varys
The Champion of Light and The Champion of Darkness :D
Michaela Janová Neither is light/good. GoT is grey. Lots of grey.
Zhuge Liang and Sima Yi
I thought so for quite a while.
Damn shame D & D couldn't keep it up.
"The Lysa Arryn of chairs" underrated burn
Lysa is his second choice to Catylyn. He knew them both growing up and always wanted to get together with Catylyn, but he was not highborn enough and also got beaten bloody by Brandon (ned's older brother) when he tried to claim her. So he rose high using his brain instead of brawn
The music is so hauntingly beautiful.
„The Winds of Winter? Do you know what the Winds of Winter is? It’s the thousands of fake release dates, a story we tell each other over and over, till we forget that it’s a lie”
“But what do we have once we abandon the lie? Despair. An unfinished series waiting to disappoint us all.”
Is it bad that I kinda love littlefinger. He is freaking brilliant
And the voice
Rule number one of writing characters, make them interesting. Relatability is colossally overrated.
@@Horus_the_Lupercal Being interesting and being relatable aren't mutually exclusive.
That isn't rule number one, that is common damn sense, you aren't making a character to make them boring.
Until they turns him dumb by giving Sansa to The Boltons, the same family who killed his childhood crush, Caitlyn who is also Sansa's mother. If he loves and cares for her very much, why would he sacrifce her daughter to them?
Earlier seasons were top tier writing/acting. Gods was it strong back then.
This was the best scene for the entire series. I literally couldn't wait till episode seven aired the following Sunday! Season 3 period was spectacular! As were season 1 and 2.
Crazy how good is the dialogue, considering that this wasn't in the books and it is made by D&D.
does he mean that everyone who clim the ladder will eve,tually fall sooner or later?
Love it! Little Finger is kind of the Big Bad of Game of Thrones in a subtle way.
0:17 Well, the throne was far larger in the book.
that was the point :)
Yes there are actually a thousand blades in the throne room in the book. This whole dialogue is show only
I LOVE that scene....and the quote, 'Chaos is a Ladder' and it is. Chaos breeds opportunity!
The music is amazing. Makes the monologue so much more intense.
If you ever watch the actor who played Littlefinger even in a goofy movie like Shanghai Knights his performance was top notch and menacing. He is an excellent actor who always brings it to the table.
OMG!! _That's_ where I recognize him from. I've had the hardest time placing him, yet I was certain I had seen him act somewhere before. Now I think I need to go re-watch Shanghai Knights! 👍
2:33 David and Dan really did ◽️ dirty in the later seasons, probably my favorite character in the books
Everyone who wasn't dead by the end of Season 6 got done dirty.
The mind to think of this kind of dialogue is remarkable. To sit, think of this entire world, put it all together, and one man did it. I'm considered an intelligent man professionally, and yet I don't have the headspace to comprehend writing a world like this
Some things George RR did was read books like “life in a medieval castle” which helped him to understand real history and then blend the fictional intrigue we so do love. But yeah storytellers are awesome
This kind of writing makes GOT way above soo many other shows
I don't even understand how vikings is compared to this
Baelish n Varys don't need swords... but the scene is proper.
The writing the tone n the music playing in the scene 🔥 📛
Littlefinger is my favourite character. The least obvious but arguably the most dangerous.
In my opinion these two characters made the series alive. To be able to believe in a city like kings landing it would not be enough with the kings and ned and jaime. When I first saw the series I thought Varys and Littlefinger were so believable and good that I got completely immersed
This scene is proof the writers were capable of good writing without the source material. Unfortunately, they couldn't carry it into the final season.
It's sad that an interesting character like Baelish got such a disappointing death in a rather boring plot.
I really liked littlefingers character in the early seasons, smart, witty and devious. I kind of hoped he would play a bigger role in the whole story and would be part of an amazing plot twist, instead they turned him into sad a moron.
His cunning was only effective when he only cared about himself. But he had cared a lot about about a woman before too, so what happened in the end wasn't totally out of character.
KAOS IZ A LADDAH!
Rivaini Hawke that's how I always say it! XD
Varys and Littlefinger are just the vessels used by the two entities who cannot come into physical contact.. true masters of the game.
chaos vs order
chaos vs Ladder
Dammit I can’t rewatch this series one more time!
But I’m going to watch again 😆
When it was good- it was GOOD
He started the War of the Seven Kingdoms to make the Seven Kingdoms plunge into chaos, all so he could grab lands and titles in the chaos, and this is pretty much where he admits it. Still can't believe they killed off such an important character that has shown constant cunning in such a stupid way. The Littlefinger I know would never have stuck around after Bran threw this line right in his face. Bran literally said "I know everything" and Littlefinger was like "nah, he won't tell Sanda and Arya". Come on man 😂
this dialogue is really well-written
This is season 3 episode 6, "The Climb". For some reason, I've always found this to be the most memorable episode of the entire series. But that's just me.
Great scene. Shame those two never meet again. -.-'
A quote from the books is: "Roose plays with men. You and me, these Freys, Lord Manderly, his plump new wife, even his bastard, we are but his playthings." Sometimes I think this quote much suit much better to Littlefinger. XD
And I do love Shae in the series. Her true feelings for Tyrion and her friendship with Sansa a such an improvement.
Nearly every interaction between Littlefinger and Varys was like a work of art, with this scene bing thew best. Littlefinger's monologue really does have a lot of real world applications. Myths are often re-told countless times over a prolonged period of time, with the story growing ever larger with the passage of time, until that story no longer so much as resembles the truth. These stories can grow to the extent that massive social structures, such as religions, grow out of them. And this is where Varys makes a good point - what happens when you strip away the myth? For Varys, the answer is clear - it's best to hand on to the myth as revealing the truth can lead to something as serious as societal collapse. For Littlefinger, destroying the myth is a good thing, for it brings about the conditions for major change. So which man is actually right? Depends on circumstance and perspective, I suppose.
For some reason I like the way he says "fresh experience"
These scenes are the greatest addition they have ever made.It shows why people fear and respect them so much.
Every season we see a great piece of dialogue between Varys and Littlefinger, can't wait for the next.
Damn
There was a time when I thought the final scene, of the final episode, of the final season... would be these two... just talking about chaos and order.
My hair just flies off my skin every time I watch this scene...
One of the most memorable aphorisms in TV series history
Unforgettable, chilling scene
Varys is not evil guy, he is a guy who would do anything for the greater good of a united realm, because he know what coming ( if that mean being dishonorable or killing or getting someone kill then oh we'll)
Little Finger care about doing anything that could help him become King (just like Varys say, if that mean burning down the country to become King of the ashes so be it).
But the other major player of the game is the Red Woman, who goal is to have her religion and god The Lord of Light, be the one and only religion and get rid of the 7 gods and old gods religions. So far with her curse on people, she is in the lead in the game between her, Little Finger and the Spider.
That was a good show, saddens me that it got canceled after season 05.
that's the story we agreed to tell each other ;-)
What a great insult, calling someone "the Lysa Arryn of sth."
The true Architects behind all the chaos ! Hand's down for the masters !
48 laws of power all throughout this show, especially with these guys.
ominous music and scene... dangerous people at play...
So we see that LittleFinger has the first act of the story. He pitted the Lannisters against the Starks.
Im intrigued about what Varys has planned for the dragons part, coming up.
#JustOnePenLegend
🚶🏾♂️
Rewatching this makes me so upset. The first 4 seasons were so intriguing and compelling. Now compare this scene to how these 2 characters ended. I cannot fathom how they wrote it so poorly... a child, a monkey, etc. could have written a better ending. And now that trash is sealed in time for all of us to live with.
It breaks my heart to see how a show with these great characters and stories and potential was reduced to the pile of garbage that S7 and S8 were
I think Varys was saying that the chair Littlefinger was sitting on was the Lysa Arryn of chairs. He wants to be King but must settle for being on the King's council, much like how he loved Catelyn but is marrying Lysa.
I actually believe that littlefinger and varys are inspired in fouche and talleyrand the 2 men who control france through 5 different governments. Fouche have a giant network of spies and never have too much noble titles, his power was behind sceen. Talleyrand was good with money, and was the best diplomat. He play with both russia and france in the war, and as littlefinger make the alliance tyrell-lannister he make the alliance russia-prussia possible. Also he was reward with the best lordships, just as littlefinger.
G
It is said that when Talleyrand and Fouche were once seen together in public, Chateaubriand remarked 'And Vice meets Crime'.
this is a brilliant insight...!
This scene is very perfect. This scene clarify me about a lot of stiation.
I'd like to think that if Baelish- Mustache-twirlingly evil as he is- Won the Game of Thrones, he would have given Varys a nice house by the sea and stripped him of all titles, essentially under a polite house arrest. Would have been such a cool end to his character if they shook hands and said, "Well-played" without killing each other out of spite
Petyr would absolutely not abide with Varys’ existence under any circumstance if he didn’t have to. Varys doesn’t have power from titles, or swords, or even his own freedom, but through his own ever-reaching ever-lasting invisible hands that grope and mould the realm. Those hands only disappear when he does, and littlefinger knows that the last thing Varys’ thinks is that him being on the throne is “good for the realm”. He has to go. Petyr doesn’t even have to know about young griff or Varys’ connections to Daeny for him to act.
So you think Chaos is your ally? You merely adopted the dark, I was born in it, raised by it, I didn’t see the ladder until I was already a man.
The theory of Littlefinger vs Varys is an interesting one. That the show is ultimately about these two characters- two master manipulators, one for the traditional old ways and the other a revolutionary- is how I like to see it. And I have to say, I'm rooting for Littlefinger. He wants to uproot a rotten monarchy that has seen the high born families have thousands murdered because of their claims.
Sam Mallett it is the real song of ice and fire.. littlefinger with the north (ice) and varys with the targaryeans (fire). varys vs littlefinger is the real song of ice and fire
yeah but littlefinger only wants that because he wants power for himself varys at least the show version cares about the realm and its people
Man, when this show was good, it was goooooood.
I miss these sort of things in GoT. Now, it is becoming like the walking dead. Just the same characters repeating the same lines in different ways. Jon's 'DA ARMY OF DUH DED" speech is getting as sickeningly tiresome as Rick Grime's "WE GOTTA SURVIIIIVVVE, CARRRL"
COOOOOOOOOOOORALLLLLLLL!!! >:O
Oh my god I feel so bad reading, with you not knowing was was coming
This conversation is so real you can’t even imagine how real it
What Littlefinger doesn't get is chaos maybe a latter but it's a very wobbly one and all too often has someone at the bottom waiting to kick it out from under you when you climb.
In a way he was the person shaking the ladder at the bottom for awhile there, then he started climbing it himself.
@@dreadrath With predictable results.
Notice the dove on the sails, that's Littlefingure's ship. Sansa is crying cause she lost her last chance to escape the capital because she would rather have had the chance to marry Sir Loras.
1:25 Littlefinger went little rhotic irish with "paRt".
"And the only thing that matters,
Is climbing up that social ladder"
1:50, Littlefinger shows why he's to be feared.
He despises everything, but he want to own it all.
One of the best scenes in the show.
NO HBO! Please give me more Sand Snake dialogues.
these two are the REAL masterminds or players of the game everyone else are just pawns 😁
I love this so much. A man who covets the throne and will gladly destroy the kingdom to get it and a man who wouldn't sit there if it was offered to him who just wants prosperity for the people. The dialogue was so good then.
*amazing* fucking dialogue being delivered by two top tier actors. god I miss early GoT I have such comfy memories of watching it for the first time.
"The Lysa Arron of chairs. Shame you had to settle for your second choice."
What a vicious burn.
I actually sympathize with LF. He is as much of a victim of his era as he's a villain. He was a guy who once believed in love, honor, justice and courage. But he was victimized because of his belief. He thought a small guy like himself can win against a much larger opponent like a story in the book, if he fought with honor. But he hadn't realized that he fought a system where small guys are meant to be kept down, especially if they believed in honor. He is the Edmond Dantes of Westoros.
i swear i literally shit in my pants when Little Finger recalls." Chaos isn't a pit, Chaos is a ladder!"
"The Lysa Arryn of chairs."
Damn, I've seen this scene many times, but didn't remember this epic burn by Varys.
Jon Snow climbed. Until the writers forked it up