Littlefinger's Masterplan (A Song of Ice and Fire)
Вставка
- Опубліковано 23 лют 2023
- In Deep Geek - Insight and intelligent discussion on Lord of the Rings, Game of Thrones, The Witcher and more.
For merch, audiobooks, and all things In Deep Geek, explore my website - www.indeepgeek.com
Join me on Patreon - / indeepgeek
Follow me on Twitter - @indeepgeek
Follow me on Instagram - indeepgeekofficial
Follow me on Facebook - / indeepgeek
For more merch - shop.spreadshirt.com/indeepgeek
Or ... shop.spreadshirt.co.uk/indeep...
The Winds of Winter playlist - • Video
Robert's Rebellion / Tower of Joy playlist - • Video
My audiobook channel: The Well Told Tale - / thewelltoldtale
This video was brought to you with support from my amazing Patreon community - special thanks to Stephanie Frederick, Joshua Clark, Maura Lee, Rabbi Rob Thomas, Brooke Geer Person, Josh Bielemeier, Jane, Vance, Amy Southerland, Callie Summers, June Coates, Ariel Winchester, Sonia Rangel, Edward Ryan, Stephanie B, Coleen, Ben Androvich, Nana L, Brennan Barnes, Ivanka Hainzl, Howland’s Little Sister, Charis Messalina de Valence, Donna Daley, Cade Norman, Murray D, Lily Mellon, NOscar, Rick Hoppe, Leathery Wings, James Pisano, Bridget Boyle, TheStarkInWinterfell, Ellemcee, Alannah Prestayn of Braavos, Raymond Joy, Jonathan Harrison, Jared, Petyr Pebble, Hilal Yildiz, Jason Mauleon Rosario, Milton Christopher Appling, Edward Ennett, Katy Smith, 26Artgirl, Karen Thomas, Rickon, Cathrine Furseth, James Fitzpatrick, Doug Hughes, lawnduck20, Perseffanie, Emily Mole, Lady Dane, The Late Escapist, Natalie Donald, J. Gregory Henderson, Andrew Warnock, whalawitsa, Luna Cascade, Dan MacKay, Lady of Summer, Johnny Targs, Milla, Ashton DeAngrlo, Kevin Warner, TomCritoph, Julie Bernard, Demps 2002, St Jamalamington, Bear, Carolina Kley, Susan Lonergan, Bo Riley, Brad Paquin, Lyle Hammac, Taryn Giles, Alex Butter, Pam Peterson, Bettina Charlotte Nielsen, T boz, Angela Marie Young, Sarah Awesomesauce, James Horner, Stephanie Erickson, KaliKo_Jack, SeaGreenMango, GeorgeRRTolkien, Antihero Association, Richard Woodard, Jenny Smith, Caiden Timmons, Britt, ThatVBGuy, Tyler Barnhart, Daiwai, John H. Austin, Jr, Epamethius, Marluinthir, NikFromNJ, Ty Farnsworth, Beesman, Mario Murray, EJ, Willow Button, Julia Kendall, Jonny Ceriani, Mary Frances Angelini, Nevermind, Emma Sheiman, Matthew Foley, Candide, Joseph Jones, maniel le, Christine Denny, Nicholas Willey, Julien Dubois, Leland, JackieO, Max Kingdom, Tricia Brady, Julian Messner, Lahiru Dinálankára, LiK, Simen Dalstein, Betty Morgan (Nemo-Nova), Scott Maraldo, Shelley J, Wildling Chef, April Cote, Karen Wennerlind, Nathan Drumm, Lauren Peterson, Martin Sjöstrand, Mae and Matt (Man of War) Rubin.
Affiliate Links - (buying books from our Bookshop.org shop supports this channel and local bookshops at no extra cost to you.)
Books for fans of A Song of Ice and Fire:
uk.bookshop.org/lists/a-song-...
Other books we love:
uk.bookshop.org/shop/indeepgeek
Thanks for watching! (All pictures are used under fair use copyright laws. If any credits are missing or incorrect, please PM me for a credit!) - Розваги
I would love for Littlefinger to hear Catelyn is still alive, travel to her cave, and get done in by Lady Stoneheart.
Picturing that is hilarious
I don't read fanfic but I would SO read that if someone were to write it 😆 😂
I second that motion. George! Make it so.
Oops went a bit startrek there at the end.
I love when people say stuff that makes absolutely no sense
@@happybee7725 I love star trek, may the force be with you 😸
I love the idea of Littlefinger struggling to manipulate the Starks and the other lords of the North as a parallel to Ned struggling to operate in Kings Landing. Great analysis!
Terrifying why? Most of the cruelty and chaos he sows is in pursuit of gaining these prizes, once he has them, it's not like he's going to rule poorly. He's the one most likely to create a stable and prosperous realm should he succeed.
@@Dadecorban Terrifying?
@@thebranndoful I think something got fucked up. This isn't the comment that I was replying to.
@Dadecorban Think it was the comment above haha
@@Dadecorban ah, got it. :)
Baelish would be the protagonist in other stories. He is low born, loved a lord’s daughter, fought a duel for her honor, a lord killed his unborn child, he goes overseas to learn swordplay and politics. He comes back and begins the game of thrones. To Petyr, the Starks and Tullys are the bad guys.
It's hard to think of someone who is murderously ambitious as a protagonist, no matter what hardships he had to overcome.
History is written by the winners. I'm sure Petyr could spin this and leave out very key details 😅
Nah, I don't think Petyr would see himself as a hero, he wouldn't concern himself with moral judgements and ethics. Unlike Varys, who lies and manipulates but with a true empathetic end goal, Littlefinger knows he does everything for himself, and that makes him interesting.
No shit he’d be the protagonist in other stories. If the story is about him, he’s the protagonist by default. Doesn’t make him the good guy (he’s also not lowborn as you said)
As for JoRivers comment, she not only doesn’t know what protagonist means, but also what an anti-hero is.
Crazy
His house sigil would be like a Playboy cover? A bitch with a dagger.
Let's not forget that the fake Arya that Littlefinger sold to the Boltons was also Sansa's childhood best friend. When they reunite, I suspect Sansa will turn on Littlefinger and reap bloody vengeance for her friend with some diabolical schemes and betrayal of her own.
The Iron Banks soldiers will side with LF.
Similar to what happened in the show, I think real Arya will give fake Arya the gift of a mercy killing to put her out of her misery once she arrives in Bravos.
@@lordsmoke317 jeyne is going to bravos ?
Reach
I want Arya having the Northern plotline instead. Jeyne is pretending to be Arya, and Arya is a faceless man.
I love the idea of little finger being just as helpless as Ned in KL when he gets to winterfell. That’s poetic justice
Sounds like heresy.
But unlike ned he'd know to leave before he died in a silly way.
@@austingridleypickleball Except that he's infatuated with Sansa. Love causes the craftiest of men to make stupid decisions. And Littlefinger's decision to try and pit Sansa against Arya (in the show) was the worst thing he could have done.
@@Lennis01 You're talking about show Littlefinger who had the negative IQ move of giving up Sansa to Ramsay with no gain which didn't happen in the book. Also the only reason pitting Sansa against Arya failed was deus ex machina psychic Bran who LF should have bailed from the moment he realized his powers and no love shouldn't eliminate all his braincells to that.
@@islandboy9381 Baelish could still fall victim to his own hubris. He might straight up not believe Arya and Bran to have supernatural powers or whatever. The man is no different to most Southerners who dismiss magic due to the Faith of the Seven. Varys is the only one not to dismiss such things since he came from Essos and because of the trauma he suffered as a child.
We also don't know yet how Bran and Arya will interact with LF in the books yet. Something tells me they aren't going to spell out what they can do now to Littlefinger just because. Littlefinger seems destined to fall in the North simply because he will be dealing with crazy as shit most normal people aren't use to. Jon coming back from death. Arya being a magical assassin. Bran being an all knowing pseudo god. The time for southern politicking is ending because winter is here.
The actor sold Littlefinger so well in the show (even if the characters are a bit different) that he narrates the art of war on audible.
It goes hard too
I had no idea that he did narration. Now I want to listen to it, damn it.
Damn that's epic
Aiden Gillen was perfect as Littlefinger. Probably my favorite casting in the show, him and The Hound.
When it became clear the thebshow runners forgot about the 3rd book an Victarian Greyjoy, that was it for me.
My favorite POV chapters.
Little finger, hound and Tyrion
Vary's was also cast very well. I forget the actor's name, but he and Aiden Gillen have amazing chemistry.
Tywin is also cast perfectly. Tyrion? He’s even better than the book because he’s so charismatic and the book version is scary to look at
@@daniell1483 Conleth Hill
I love the theory that Littlefinger will meet his fate at the hands of Lady Stoneheart. It would be so poetic for him to be tried and killed by the woman he was obsessed with, and his role in bringing about so much pain and suffering onto her family through his lies and scheming.
For sure. It seems to be the most fitting thematically. Though sansa and littlefinger being in the riverlands is the difficulty since littlefinger is quite keen on establishing power in the vale. I figure littlefinger and sansa will be revealed by an unexpected character return, and will be drawn to the riverlands on the way to winterfell by blackmail. We can only wonder.
Fingers crossed!
This would be the worst possible outcome George could write. Cat's story will end with Arya, not Sansa. Sansa will be the one to undo Petyr.
It would be perfect
When you put into words the fact that he could have 3 of the 7 kingdoms, it's kinda terrifying
Petyr's biggest problem with his long-term goals is that it is extraordinarily difficult for a powerbroker to become king, even if he is of a major house.
S8 did a lot wrong, but Tyrion was correct in saying that the most likely candidate to be accepted as king was one with a good story to tell the people and the lesser lords, and Petyr does not have that; anyone who steps back and looks at the sequence of events that show his rise to power will see his fingerprints all over it. While that is acceptable in a king's right hand, it is less so in a king themselves.
That said, the Game of Thrones clearly had no better player. He is utterly unmatched in political skill and intelligence, and his rise to power was incredible. In that way, he reminds me of the character Delita Heiral, from Final Fantasy Tactics. Delita was a commoner who became king by joining the Church's conspiracy to engineer a war of succession, wipe out the leaders of both sides and assert religious authority. Delita betrayed the church and positioned *himself* as the leader of the faction that had custody of the rightful Princess, and won her affection in the meantime. By war's end, he was the highest military authority and the only suitable match for the Princess, and thus became King through marriage.
Delita's plan would NOT have worked if he won through sheer political maneuvering. He was only accepted because he was, by all appearances and publicly known to be, a valiant and honorable holy knight. Petyr does not have the advantage of such masquerading, as everyone who deals with Petyr knows exactly the snake he is. As Varys would predict, the only kingdom Petyr could be crowned over is a kingdom of ashes; no amount of political maneuvering would ever inspire true loyalty. He'd forever be too reliant on people like Sansa, people with better claims and better stories, to keep the more honor-bound knights and lords under his thumb. And the moment someone like Sansa turned on him, at a crucial moment, he would lose. Had he played the long game, positioned 'House Baelish' as being a secondary name to many positions of power, allowed the positions they held to become hereditary, then a few generations later, his grandchildren could have won the throne and been accepted, once House Baelish was accepted as a powerful house.
Remember, Littlefinger went from being basically a farmer to one of the (if not the) most powerful man in westeros in 5-10 years.
Many people play the Game of Thrones, some better than the others, but he is the pure embodiment of it.
I really hope GRRM goes more in-depth on Sansa in WoW. One of the show’s biggest blunders was the rushed Sansa plot. In reality, Sansa has a lot going for her. Unlike all the other Starks, she’s been living as a hostage, constantly having to think and fend for herself. She’s been mentored by Ned, Cat, Tyrion, Margaery, Olenna & Littlefinger. She also learned a lot from Cersei and Joffrey. If anyone should grow to become master of the game, it’s her.
I do miss the A Song of Ice and Fire videos, they brought me in to your channel in the first place. And since the Game of Thrones finale left so bitter a taste, this is what keeps me craving the books again. So thank you very much, I wish you all the best from Holland :)
I feel you bro! Almost 90 percent of the fan base feels ya! These videos are a blast
I'd argue that Littlefinger's first move to cause chaos was to tell Brandon Stark that Rhaegar had kidnapped Lyanna to strir up trouble between Houses Stark and Targaryen, with the hope of stopping the marriage between Brandon Stark and Catelyn Tully. He's playing, and been playing a very long game.
Do we know LF did this? It was the casus belli of the Rebellion. Whatever the truth, Robert B was still claiming it in Book 1and Episode 1.
@@michaelbayer5094it’s a theory but isn’t for sure as far as I know yet. It’s a theory i heard on this channel recently actually.
@@HeatherHolt Thanks Heather. I had not seen that theory put forward. I think when I first read Brisbane's comment, I had my Brandons confused. Brisbane meant Ned's brother, not his son as 3 eyed raven.
The books have a lot of loose ends like this one tied to the backstory. From the show we know some are revealed or solved. I'm afraid that even GRRM finishes the story he will leave many questions unanswered.
I don’t think he did it, he and Brandon weren’t on the best terms. I totally see why he would and how it would benefit him, I just don’t see him being able to easily approach Brandon. Plus Brandon knows Petyr hates him and wouldn’t trust the bait
I almost root for littlefinger winning the game of thrones, actually somehow taking the iron throne somehow. His cunning is extremely fascinating
Same
That's why he's my favorite. He started the War of 5 Kings by writing a letter. That's badass.
@@scarletbitch866 Lysa wrote the letter, though Littlefinger probably had it delivered.
I admire his hustle much more than a family dynasty of likely inbreeding. This is the true history and ideology of the “divine right of kings.” There have always been people who believed that God wants them and their family to rule over others. Little finger feels very refreshing compared to that dark concept. He’s definitely smart enough to get himself up the food chain. He knows the struggle of the low born. Would he be a decent ruler? Maybe. I low key root for him, but don’t tell anyone.
@Colleen Harding "I low key root for him, but I don't tell anybody." LMAO, this, for real! I told my brother Littlefinger was my favorite and he called me gross and how awful LF is. Then he goes, "He's my favorite, too."
I hope his death is better in the books.
I’ve always thought that Littlefinger’s japes with Renly (at the expense of Robert and Stannis) led directly to Renly declaring himself king.
He likely had been doing that for years. No doubt Littlefinger knew that Renly was gay and likely set him up with discrete dates.
I think he played all the brothers against each other..they were estranged already. They grew up apart, and had differing personalities, but the wedges between them, being willing to kill one another, came to pass by years of someone feeding those grievances
@@darthlazurus4382 you think he was supplying Renly with dudes like he do Lyn Corbray?
@@nunyabiznes33
Not so much that I think it happened, just that I think the possibility is very likely.
"In Winter, the Lone Wolf dies, but the pack survives". Littlefinger is the ultimate lone wolf, but the Starks are a pack.
They haven't been a pack since book 1, so at this point they're all lone wolves.
Damn this is sad, for Petyr. Really sad
@@jurgenparkour9337That slippery bastard deserves it
Indeed✌️the Starks were a pack✌️
under no circumstance would Lord Baelish give away Sansa to the Boltons, no way, he would definitely keep her to himself
I’d never really thought of it that way until you described it, but Littlefinger really did cause the entire chain of events that led to Robert’s death and the war.
Not exactly. Cercei specifically mentions she wanted to get rid of Robert, so she probably would have made the attempt eventually, but only after she neutralized Renly and Stannis. Littlefinger forced her to move up her deadline. And Varys would always start wrecking the realm to make way for Young Griff. Westeros was always going to go up in flames as soon as Robert died.
@@daniell1483 even before Robert’s death, Illyrio and Varys had Dani and Drogo’s marriage set up so they could invade Westeros and cause chaos so Aegon “Totally not a Blackfyre” Targaryen could come in and save the day. They didn’t seem to care if Robert was still king, if anything Jorah says Robert’s bullheadedness would probably benefit them, he’d try to face the Dothraki in battle.
writing a character like him must be hard to do
no wonder GRRM is taking so long
all these characters, interconnected storylines, conspiracy theories, massive events with many different little details that have to make sense together, every time I read the books I get why its so draining, it's too ambitious pretty much.
I've heard him compared to Lord Gro of The Worm Ouroboros, though I never got far into that myself and I can't be sure if GRRM read it (though I have heard ASOIAF get accused of being in the vein of its Nietzchean amorality). The Primo Varicella, protagonist of the interactive fiction game that shares his surname, also seems like a combination of Littlefinger & Varys.
The part that makes it most difficult is his style of writing, how he writes character by character gardener-style. It can mean writing one characters story can cause ripple effects to others. This issue grows for difficult situations such as what's happening in the Riverlands.
And not just the sheer amount of characters and intrigue, but also the sheer genius of characters like Littlefinger, Varys, Tywin, and Tyrion. It takes extreme time and effort to write characters that intelligent. As the showrunners demonstrated with their complete inability to write smart characters when they stopped adapting book material
Littlefinger is basically Loki. So, not that hard.
@@j-rey- true the smart characters were one of the biggest problems in the later seasons. Tywin died just in time but the others werent so lucky
The true mastermind of the got series. Kinda annoyed at how they ended his reign in the tv series. Didn't feel realistic at all, nor in character. They did him dirty in the end, when they ran out of book material and diverged to make their own way. Didn't feel like littlefinger at all. Love these videos keep them up!
The circumstances might not be the same when the books come out but I don’t see it ending any other way for his character. The fact that he is the mastermind of the war of the five kings and is most responsible for the violence that followed makes me more inclined to believe people will start putting together the pieces which will lead to him facing some form of accountability/justice/revenge.
@@jaredwat8478 Sure thing, I mean its a possibility, but I'm sure it will go down quite differently. He is too smart to have a bad ending like he had in the series imo. Also, let's not forget that its George R. R. Martin we are talking about here. He can be quite unpredictable when it comes down to these things. I would not be surprised if the good guys end up dead, only for Varys or Littlefinger to rule the kingdom eventually, lol. Whether we like it or not. If the writing supports it I would be in for it too.
@@kobarsos82 I think his intelligence is exactly what’s going to be his downfall. I think things are going to keep going well for him to the point where he feels confident and ends up making a mistake or slip up that’ll cost him everything. Everyone has a piece of the puzzle to his overall scheming and treachery and as characters start coming together I think it’s going to come to light.
As I mentioned I don’t know if Arya will slit his throat in winterfell or what but I definitely believe he’s going to make a mistake and will be confronted. He’s smart no doubt about that but I think he’s going to end up getting confident and complacent once he reaches a point where he feels like he’s won or everything is going to plan. Plus Bran ending up on the throne was one of the things GRRM told the show runners the story would end with.
The TV series was idiotic. Everything Sansa publicly accused against LF would have blown up in her face. She witnessed and covered up the murder of Lysa (a lord that heard that testimony is sitting in the room), she hid the confession of her aunt murdering Jon Arryn, she did denounce her father who really was trying to overthrow Joffery,
Smart writers would have had the three Starks meet LF in the crypt to inter the bones of their mother (perhaps Arya got them from her idiotic massacre at the Twins), accuse him in private and end with Arya brandishing the knife. The next scene is Littlefinger leaving Winterfell seen off by Sansa and Bran and dozens of others to return to the Vail with Sansa and Royce in charge of the Vail army in Winterfell. On his side, the dagger that helped start a conflict that cost the Starks so dearly.
They didn't run out of book material; why do you guys spread that lie with such ease? D&D made the choice to skip a metric f*ck ton of book material; they didn't "run out;" they literally skipped it
I love the idea that his death will probably be an inversion of Ned's, caught out of his element amongst family, honor, and loyalty.
Hopefully Arya will get to behead him
Insight into the complex webs of GRRM's writing in contrast to what the show did really gives you an appreciation for how royally screwed we all were by the showrunners, its like they were given the outline for a partially completed Rembrandt, and for the first half of the painting they took their time and used the best quality paints to fill in the lines, then the second half they threw away the paint and used a crayon instead.
I want Baelish to win. He deserves it for his efforts. He sets almost everything in motion. Reminds of ORiley on Oz.
Love that you have Donald Sutherland as your Hoster Tully, fantasy casting lol
Hiring the dwarfs for Joffrey's wedding was a brilliantly subtle touch. Littlefinger really was a master political manipulator.
There was a very small part of me that wanted Littlefinger to win. Just for the sheer longshot value of the lowliest lord becoming King of the world. Reminds me of Napoleon
You’re a goofy
Do not forget the grain and other food stores Littlefinger has stored. Huge wealth there & Winter is here
Greetings Robert,
As someone who didn't read the books and only watched GOT/ HOTD series, your videos and livestreams are so incredibly helpful in understanding the world of ASOIAF. Thank you 😀
I have always liked Littlefinger, and still hope he gets farther.
Great video as always Robert! 😊
I think Littlefinger is by far the best player in the game of thrones. He had none of the power, wealth or influence the other players had when he first started in politics. All the other players had those tools (except Varys, I think. Let me know if I'm wrong) to use to their advantage. And to think how strict the social hierarchy is in the seven kingdoms, it's incredible how far Littlefinger has already come. He really is very resourceful and I admire him tremendously even if I don't like him
I admire him as well. He is extremely cunning, resourceful, charming, and intelligent. All of which he works to his personal advantage. While manipulation isn't generally an admirable trait, he is incredibly good at it. When he starts making his moves, he isn't typically doing anything at all, he just stirred the pot and watched the chaos unfold and everyone else is unintentionally doing his dirty work for him. His only true rival that also has all these traits is Varys, but it's possible his grooming of Sansa backfires on him drastically since he's teaching her how he thinks and she is learning it all.
As for Varys and if he comes from a powerful family and wealth, there isn't really any concrete evidence yet. There is subtle clues that he might possibly be of royal blood because he was used some type of ritualistic dark magic that typically requires kings blood, when he was castrated. If Varys came from a powerful home, it was either the Targaryen's or Blackfyre's. But to the point of your question, any connection to them would not be advantageous on his rise to power considering he would have to keep his lineage a secret or be beheaded. So, in many ways, Varys also had to work his way to the top.
It is more likely that Varys is a Blackfyre, though. He served the Mad King Aerys and played a crucial role in the Targaryen downfall. He also kept his position in the royal court after the mad king was killed along with most of his family and loyalists. Varys is arguably more dangerous than Littlefinger because he keeps his secrets close and reveals very little, even to the readers perspective. Whereas with Littlefinger, the reader has a general idea of just how much damage he's creating.
It would be interesting to see Littlefinger be brought down by the values that are the words of his obsession's (Cat) house. Family, loyalty, honour.
Three things he knows nothing about.
Duty*
@@ledanoir1239 Damn it. Thanks for the correction
This is one of my biggest excitements about the next book release, he is such a powerful man and has so much unknown impact on the story. love this video idea!
Going on a 14 hour drive and I'm going to be binging some of your content. Thanks for the fresh upload
God, this is so freakin’ epic! A much more befitting end to Littlefinger’s master plan than what we got on screen.
I would freakin’ love it if Littlefinger’s downfall is caused by his tried and tested technique failing for the first time; trying to turn everyone against each other worked in KL, it worked in the Eyrie,…… but it will not work in Winterfell. The Starks band together (with none of the ridiculous Sansa/Arya drama in S7) and Littlefinger finally meets a monster he cannot overcome with lies and deceit.
So incredibly poetic.
George, I’m begging you! We need you to deliver on this in Winds.
Don't know if I'll be watching the Witcher anymore. Not without Henry Cavill. This is a fantastic playlist. Much love Robert. You're the man😁🤩✌️
George has said that the human heart in conflict with itself is the only thing worth writing about, yet Petyr rarely seems in conflict with himself at all. He always has such a nonchalant sense of control, always two steps ahead, always knowing what to do and how it will progress him. You say he moved too quickly kissing Sansa, I beg to differ. I don't think he improvised his response to Lysa's emotions, he set them in motion, the way he has set everything in motion to date. I believe he knew she could see them, he made sure she would see them, he needed her to see them so he could put his next step into motion.
I've often said Little Finger IS A Song of Ice and Fire, not in the prophecy sense, but the actual franchise. Without him, nothing interesting happens until a Targaryen finds their way across the sea. Petyr is the catalyst for everything that drove the story forward, he is my favourite character, the most important character, yet he breaks George's golden rule, how is that? I believe you're right in saying his house of cards comes tumbling down when Bran returns. In order for Petyr to be in conflict with himself, we have to figure out what that conflict would look like, it's obviously not going to be a moral conflict, he's proven incessantly that he's devoid of those, power is all he cares about and he's had such a flawless run on building it, so the shoe has to drop. He has to make an uncharacteristic mistake that costs him power, his conflict will be self deprecating, questioning how he could have messed that up and then realising that one mistake has a knock on effect that undoes everything he thought he'd secured himself. He needs to watch his lifes work crumble, and it needs to be his own fault. The only conflict that makes sense for him is that he outsmarts everyone, except himself.
But what do you think? Let me know in the comments below.
The conflict within himself is going to be obvious and easy to establish; he will be in the North, and he will be dealing with people that are all super loyal and full of honor; Ironically, whilst he thinks this will make it easier for him to manipulate everyone, he will fail at it, as he tries to predict how everyone will benefit him via his machinations playing off their selfishness, but this just won't happen.
Thus, all LF has to do to succeed is to literally just stop manipulating people for this period, but he cannot, as that is who he is; that is the conflict, to go against his nature. He he can do this, he would win
LF isn't a POV character, he's just antagonist. The Others don't have hearts in conflict, nor does Gregor Clegane, Vargo Hoat or Amory Lorch.
@@pyropulseIXXI this is actually more or less what happens in the show. He has no reason to be turning Arya and Sansa against eachother but he does just because he can and then the supernatural Bran ends him. I always feel like seasons 6-8 of the show are what will happen in the book but in a much simpler and more shallow way of getting to the same conclusion
@@claytonschopfer8467 It isn't the what that happens but the how and why; the show fumbled it.
Just like Dany probably will snap in the books, but the setup and why will make a lot more sense and therefore it won't be bad
Littlefinger reminds me Napoleon: born in low nobility, mocked by his pairs, builds its own path to success by outsmarting everybody everywhere at all times. Yet Napoleon, being by far the smartest guy in the room (the overcompetent ruler and the unbeatable general), did commit an unexpected and fatal mistake: invading Spain. It was never in his calculations that the Spanish people would mount such an stark resistance (no pun intended 😅) against his theoretically invincible army. Similarly, I think Littlefinger will underestimate one of his foes (maybe the Starks?) or will face an unexpected enemy like "Young Griff" (like Napoleon when he idiotically decided to invade Russia).
TLDR, even the best of the best end being caught in their own game.
Thanks for everything dude. You're like my audio-visual index page, anytime I want extra info on Tolkien/Martin I come here. Keep up the good work 🙌
I love to put on these videos and listen to indepth on LOTR characters!
@@tombombadil6591 tom-ba-bom-di-bom, evening sir!
I really appreciate your videos. I have a hard time keeping track of all the threads being woven by each of the characters (just like I have a hard time playing chess because I cannot keep ahold of enough moves in my head). You do such a great job of clearly linking all the details in a way I can follow, which allows me to get so much more out of both the books and the shows. Thank you!
Honestly, I really want to see Littlefinger on the throne in winds of winter.
Won’t matter anyway don’t think beep survive
That’s because you’re a goofy
A thing I have been wondering. Is littlefinger savvy about magic? He obviously can't *do* magic, but is he aware of it's presence and effects?
He knows not to go to Harenhall so he could be avoiding the curse deliberately, and through all of his time scheming with Sansa they have either been on a boat or in the Veil of Arryn both of which are hidden from the weirwood network. So he might know about Bloodraven, or on some level be aware that someone unknown is pulling the strings. Or maybe he just want's Sansa to be separated from the Stark gods which also shows a degree of magical awareness.
The Eyrie is not free of the weirwood net. IIRC the throne and the gate where Lysa fell from are made of weirwood.
Have you heard about the theory where the singing voices that Sweet Robin hears (even after Marillion dies) are coming or in some way related to the weirwood net? That also explains why he is obsessed with "flying".
I used to think that LF must be aware at some extent about the "curse" of Harrenhall, but he does not give me the impression of being a believer in magic. He most likely was just busy scheming all he has done and no time to claim his castle, specially one that is in the middle of the war/battle but who knows, maybe he knows something, not that Harren cursed it, but the real reason why Harrenhall is cursed: its proximity to the God's Eye.
All of the families who claimed it where aware about magic issues, Larys Strong comes to my mind and also the Whents and Lothstons. Even Daemon Targaryen dissapeared("died") there, and something that got my attention in HotD is that Daemon had a couple of scenes admiring the weirwood at the Red Keep... That place is weird, but not for the reason everyone thinks.
@@luciamota1249 "The garden is encircled by the castle's towers. It was intended to be a godswood, but no weirwood heart tree would take root in the stony soil."
Yes, I know about the throne and the moondoor, but weirwood cut from the weirwood roots is also cut from the weirwood network.
Sweet Robin was obsessed with flying long before Marillion showed up. So the flying obsession seems more like the Arryn version of dragon dreams to me, but there could definitely be more to it.
I have considered the God's Eye if that is a factor then that's even more evading of the weirwoods by littlefinger. I have a half baked theory that Littlefingers endgame is to con people into believing that he is Azor Ahai. He might have read the same books Rhaegar had and now he is trying to set things up so he can imitate the prophecy in some way (you might say like a mockingbird) I need a fair bit more before I'm ready to commit to that one though.
@@Fangs1978 I love your theory! I would love to hear more on it, when you want to tell about it
Arryns are wargs, but only able to warg, birds as is their sigil?
@@mrillis9259 The Arryns would undoubtedly prefer birds, but as far as we know there are no restrictions to what creature a warg can enter.
Even with his plan "reveal" to Sansa in AFfC, I think we have good reason to question if that's really what he has in mind. The plan he describes to Sansa seems to go against so much of what we see from him earlier. First, I'm skeptical that Littlefinger would ever willingly allow Sansa to marry anyone other than himself. Secondly, his stated plan of using Sansa's marriage to Harry to rally the Vale behind a campaign to win back Winterfell is entirely at odds with his past tactics. That would mean leading a military campaign himself, something he has always avoided and that he has no qualifications for. Furthermore, it would be a campaign inherently against the Boltons and ultimately the Lannisters, which would force him to declare a definitive allegiance in a way that he has also avoided.
Also, I doubt he's going to want Harry Hardyng dead anytime soon. Even with his political machinations, Littlefinger still needs a legitimate Arryn heir under his control in order to maintain his position. If both Sweetrobin and Harry die, Littlefinger has no more claim to ruling over the Vale. Given what we know about Harry's personality (he seems largely in the same mold as Robert Baratheon), it seems like Littlefinger could manipulate and sideline him relatively easily. The only way I could see Littlefinger wanting Harry dead is if he actually does let Sansa marry him, waits until they have an heir, *then* arranges Harry's death and marries Sansa himself. That would essentially repeat his strategy with Lysa, and allow him to remain as regent with both Sansa and her child under his control.
Littlefinger was my favorite charater in GoT. Until D&D kinda forgot how smart he is and made him into a dummy.
Littlefinger was not made a dummy. He made two mistakes. The first was not investigating Ramsey, he assumed Roose could keep him in control. So Sansa lost what little trust she had in him.
The second was ignoring Bran's very clear warning to leave Winterfell. But he didn't understand the whole three-eyed raven thing (not his religion) and he was sure he could get rid of Arya and leave Sansa with no other counsel but his.
Assuming GRRM ever finishes the books it will be interesting to see how the Ramsey Problem gets solved.
@@mikespangler98 yes D&D screwed up his character same for the spider and Tyrion. I hope GRRM redeems them all
I like to think that Littlefingers fate will ultimately end through the moon door. It would make a great metaphor for his quick rise of power; aiming so high, reaching so far to just crash and fall. Poetic justice.
Littlefinger is my favorite Character in the Story 👍
Chaos is a ladder was a cool line when little finger said it, but when Bran said it back to him I freaked out like those guys who caught a leprechaun.
This was a great video! The way that you came full circle from his home on the fingers to Kings Landing to the veil, and for it all to end at Winterfell, was well done!! He schemed and rose with lies, and is undone by truth!! Great!!
Wow I really like this new presentation approach of yours, really enhances the viewing experience 👌
One thing is a problem with the Purple Wedding - The Queen of Thorns had every motivation to kill Joffrey AFTER her granddaughter got pregnant with he child, not before.
Not really, if her goal was to marry Margery to Tommen in the first place. The marriage to Joffrey was DOA as soon as she got confirmation from Sands that he was a sadistic shithead - specially because, as someone (maybe it was her) mentions that Lorras would certainly end up killing Jeoffrey if he ever laid a finger on his sister.
@@fakeplaystore7991 maybe so, but in that case I suspect the poison was not in the wine, or not JUST in the wine. Margery had to survive the murder.
I think instead of him ending up wanting the throne as he told Sansa in the show, he should’ve told Sansa he wanted to give her the iron throne and he wanted to be by her side then. This would even create some internal conflict for Sansa who started off wanting to be a queen
Bravo that was a very insightful and point on analysis of littlefinger
loved this, great stuff as always, thank you
Everything he has done pitted one major house against another.
Another interesting factor is that one of the shady rogues who Brienne encounters during her search is also said be hunting Sansa for Cersei’s reward, and later appears at the Vale tournament where Sansa is and interacts with her. So it’s likely that he will recognize her and attempt to attack or kidnap her, throwing another wrench into Littlefinger’s plans.
This has reminded me I need to read the books again, my current point of reference is the TV show, many little details like who is Ramsey Bolton's wife and how it will effect the final picture are changed
This is great!!! Please do the video on Lord Varys' master plan, I would love to know about that.
You never disappoint. Great video
Littlefinger on Iron Throne😍
This video made my fire for The Winds of Winter blaze again!
Exceptional work as ever
little finger is such a great character.
Excellent, insightful video
Great character and actor!
13:42 love your comparison to Ned in King´s Landing
Awesome few lines at the end there.
nailed it. excellent analysis
Little finger is by far one of the most interesting characters he's definitely the best non pov
I HAVE BEEN SO DESPERATE FOR NEW ASOIAF CONTENT THANK YOU SIR
Cheers Robert! You always make the rum flow easier with your content. Keep it up. Petyr is gonna shake things up in Westeros...
Great stuff, thank you 😊
Littlefinger is the average CK character with espionage focus
You are the author of the best LF theory, Robert - that Robert's rebellion started based on LF's lies.
This video is also great, close to the actual material, bold in assumptions, but still very much within the realm of likelihood.
Awesome! The only unrealistic part is how many of his plans actually work out, in real life even the most brilliant schemers are constantly surprised by unknown unknowns.
Such a good analysis
A fascinating character that really was done dirty in the later seasons!
I can't wait to see the video on Varys masterplan.
i hope we will actually hear the end of this story. im curious to see how sandor will eventually interact with the sansa/petyr dynamic, since sandor is the polar opposite of petyr, big, brawny, nearly devoid of ambition, and mostly what it says on the tin...
I imagine Littlefinger's ultimate plan is to take over the entirety of Westeros. After securing the North, the Vale, and the Riverlands, he'd do some string-pulling nonsense for a while in each of the three regions to secure his position, and once reliably in control, march south with the full force of all three regions. At that point, he'd secure alliances with those willing to work with him, and steamroll anyone who isn't. At least, that's the plan. I think Sansa will turn on him and position herself to betray him in a similar way to Littlefinger betraying Ned.
Didnt joffery die in the purple wedding after eating tyrions pie? I could be wrong I read it a while back but I thought the poison was meant for tyrion in the books to get back at him for marrying sansa without the approval of the tyrells
This guy made the show for me. If a spin off had just him and Tyrion sans magical lore/troupes; I'd watch it. Also his roles in The Wire, Mayor of Kingston, Peaky Blinders. He's a great villain. 👏
Excellent video!
Awesome video. I‘d like to see more.
Arguably the catalyst of the whole current state of the realm. Unlike the show I believe we will see him redeemed (as much as characters can in GRR's grey world). Perhaps his last thoughts will be of Cat. I love the idea of GRR turning the perception of this character on its head. I'd like to see his last thoughts be of Cat, making him as much of a tragic character as the other half of the cast. Maybe he really did see Sansa as Cat or else the closest living (lol) equivalent. Then a fateful meeting with LSH would be the cherry on the top (with her presumably buggering him with that bloody dagger).
I like the ballpark you’re in, but it would take much more than that to redeem him or make him sympathetic, in my opinion.
Sacrificing himself in some way to save the Starks would be close but even then… LF is a heinous character.
@@The.Nasty. he is but there's not a lot of moral highground in asoiaf. They all do horrific things. Our Stark protagonists have already mindraped, shopped their family, murdered, joined assassin cults etc.
If we followed LF from his childhood, we'd all be rooting for him. Remember he came from a very poor house, was fostered by the Tully's, was basically the stand-in for sexual awakening among both the Tully sisters, honestly did believe that Cat took his virginity that night (it was actually Lysa), really did fight for the hand of his beloved from the savage northern lord which nearly cost him his life if not for the begging of Cat to spare him, did have his second love and child taken from him. Littlefinger learned to play the game in a way he can win in part (large or small) because of a delusion that Cat loved him and the game was keeping them apart.
Imagine all that, and then LF overhears his lady wife threatening the life of his first love's daughter. He then hears that it was Cat that slept with him that night years ago but Lysa. Imagine in all those steps LF recounts every move he made to be with Cat and it all being for nothing even if every plot worked because of this first deception. He does perhaps the most uncalculated move he ever made since he challenge Brandon Stark to a duel ... he pushed Lysa.
@@NukeMarine Every villain is the hero of their own story, in other words.
You have a great narrating voice.
Littlefinger's monologue at the end of Sansa's final A Feast for Crows chapter gives me chills every time! Sansa, Stannis, and Cersei's storylines are what I'm most excited about for in The Winds of Winter. 💜 Will also be awesome to see what Skagos has in store for Davos.
The best character
Damn that ending. You’re a really good writer.
Sansa is learning to be a flirt and to feel her power as an attractive young woman, even though she is still in disguise. Petyr will feel attracted more and more, but he also plans to marry her to Harry the Heir, so his head will start to explode from that internal conflict. It will be a lot more complicated and fun than in the show.
Not that Sansa might not have him executed at some point, after she is back in Winterfell.
She is almost certain to be the Stark most likely to continue the line. If she has a kid, or one on the way, she will see that Petyr is a danger to that child, or want to rule herself if it is his.
She can always have him executed for the crime of murdering Robin, which he is doing slowly.
Great video, my friend.
Biggest difference between Littlefinger in the TV series and in the books, is the Book version has a plan and uses the chaos to climb, Littlefinger in the TV Show is just fly by the seat of his pants, making chaos for chaos’ sake.
IF I remember the last book correctly:
1. Jon is still dead and there's a lot of weird magic at Castle Black.
2. Fake Arya and Theon have found Stannis's snowbound camp in the northern wilderness where Yara is prisoner.
3. Danny is lost somewhere north of Meereen and Barristan Selmy is ruling there and defending it. Tyrion and Mormont were enslaved by the beseigers but have murdered their master and are plotting their escape.
4. Varys has just snuck into the Red Keep and committed a bunch of murders.
5. Jon Connington and his Targaryen ward have invaded the Stormlands.
6. Jaime (and Brienne?) is on a "roadtrip" in the Riverlands.
7. The Martells are plotting revenge.
8. Davos has just persuaded the Manderlay's to switch sides
9. Archmaester Marwyn has left Old Town (lots of intrigue there) to seek Danny in the East.
10. Loras Tyrell is dying on Dragonstone.
Into all this is Sansa's apprenticeship under Littlefinger, which she seems to be accepting and excelling at. It appears LF wants to restore Sansa to Winterfell. Except for Jon being and possibly resurrected, all these plot points are different from and immeasurably better than the TV show. George needs to finish and needs his own apprentice to carry on this work. The amount of writing that still must be published, including filling in gaps, fleshing out the past and the plot holes, could easily dwarf what has already been done in 5 books. And let's be clear: what infuriated fans about the show was just deviation from the books, but all the shortcuts and composite characters, and especially the unconscionable rush just to get the show over so B&B could move onto other projects. So, George, we want the books to completely finish the story.
Very cool summation
I would love to have a video covering varys plans and motivation!
Great vid. Bold of you to assume A Dream of Spring will come out though
This was so much more concise and well-structured then Preston Jacobs 5 part series. Thank you for this!
You forgot to mention that during Littlefinger's diplomatic mission to the Tyrells during the war he had instructed his retinue to spread and exaggerate Joffrey's cruelty while he sings the king's virtues during the negotiations to sow doubts with Highgarden and plant the seed for Olennas desire and susceptibility to murder Joffrey for Tommen.
Man is really a master planner
There is also the fact that he discovered the Tyrell's plot to marry Sansa to Willas and revealed it to the Lannisters.
Chaos isn’t a pit.
Chaos is a ladder.
Many who try to climb it fail and never get to try again. The fall breaks them. And some, are given a chance to climb. They refuse, they cling to the realm or the gods or love. Illusions. Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is.
It depends how much George really can squeeze into 2 books haha but I doubt Littlefingers plan stops at 3 kingdoms and I can imagine a phase after Harold where he tries to link into the rise of Aegon to make her a Queen and would bring back together the game Littlefinger has been playing with Varys up until now
Plot twist, LF an Varys, are working together the whole time.
@@mrillis9259 could be fun but I feel like for narrative sense wise they work better as adveseres. I also like the fact that Varys an LF go about there goals in such different ways . Varys has adapted but stayed on course with a clear beginning and end point to their goal for like 2 decades where as LF sort of rides the wind and up untill not always knowing where to put his sail
@@robertflintoft5614 they appeared as adversaries.
Damn GRRM, every time I wanna forget about his next book, his wonderful universe sucks me back in. For the love of all that is holy, please finish this damn book.
"later, I dreamt that maid again, slaying a savage giant in a castle built of snow."
I dont think Littlefingler planed for Ned to be killed. He tried to join him if Ned had accepted his plan they would have worked together. Also Ned has a dream were Littlefinger mocks him dressed as Robert
Excellent video :)