I'm fairly certain that the killing of children is near universally frowned upon in common Westerosi culture. But Ned is neither a part of nor is he dealing with mainstream Westerosi society. He's dealing with the elite, the power graspers, most of whom wouldn't bat an eye at the deaths of children if it meant solidifying their position. Thing is, there are quite a few honorable lords in Westeros, but it's made clear they each have their own limits, places where their code of honor and ethics will sway, and that was Ned's problem. He didn't have that vulnerability, save for when it came to his children, and even then, he refused to risk the lives of other children to save his own life. His moral code was not particularly complex or nuanced and, more than that, it was damn near rigid. Those qualities damned him the moment he rode through the gates of King's Landing.
AND YET the very first thing we see Ned do is behead a man of the Night's Watch who was 1) probably forced to be there and 2) was trying to warn people about White Walkers. He story both begins and ends with a beheading that is "honorable" while also completely injust.
The way Ned Stark and Robert Baratheon acted with each other really felt like they were living in a changing world that they didn't fit in anymore. Ned assumed the rules of honor would allow justice to follow and Robert Baratheon was too blind in his rage to see that the biggest threat was his own family.
You're a fucking moron. That "family" of Robert's is what not only safe guarded the throne for him but actually provided the funds and security his rule needed. So being "too blind" had nothing to do with how he related to The Lannisters. He OWED THEM BIG TIME. And as for Ned, his Northern stubbornness and prejudices would have prevented him from ever fitting in, in the Southern world and the way the politics surrounding the Iron Throne is conducted. Honor has NOTHING to do with it. Reading comprehension is fundamental, IDIOT.
Yo, Pendragon, you seem to be forgetting that the Lannisters had been planning to assassinate Robert for ages, they were just waiting until they could deal with renly and Stannis the mannis first, but then Ned learned a truth most foul
“You are an honest and honorable man, Lord Eddard. Ofttimes I forget that. I have met so few of them in my life.” He glanced around the cell. “When I see what honesty and honor have won you, I understand why.”
Ah, Lord Varys, you shouldn’t have died. Tyrion made the mistake of telling the mother of dragons, despite his doubts about her increasing willingness to commit violence. And I loved Tyrion too. The end of the last episode though was shite. So, Tyrion becomes the Hand once more? It was an odd ending. And Jon was the rightful heir in the end, while Dany was turning towards becoming an empress bathed in blood apparently. The kingdom would’ve been grateful. Seriously, a Stark/Targaryen, who took out the Targaryen who burnt the innocent in Kings Landing to a crisp, is made to join the watch by the head of a small army of unsullied, in a country they’d never been to before until very recently? It’s very illogical if you think of how those in power would actually respond, & all the Stark’s banner men. I did like the idea that Sansa wound up ruling as the Queen of the North. She earned it.
@@dshepherd107 yeah and the two smartest men in westeros don't see the simple solution sitting right in front of them. Marry jon and dany, that would ease the north men, it would allow jon and dany to rule as king and queen, and it would allow their children to be legitimate heirs to the throne. INSTEAD, lets just betray dany and tell all of westeros that she fell in love with her niece.
I love how George talks about his epic as if he's a just a knowledgeable historian and deducing their unique personalities of his characters from the facts available
This is why most of you really need to study up on your history. You might want to go back and read somethings that happened in real life called "The War of the Roses. The British empire. The Roman empire. The Persian empire. The Conquistadors. Alexander the Great. Julius Caesar. Cleopatra. The German Reichs. Slavery. And America's colonizations." If you actually knew your history of the world you wouldn't even make that dumb comment about a man's imagination. Everything he imagined was inspired by factual historic events.
@@abuabdullah9878sorta the way of things, we cant chain george to an iron bar and milk him till all the creative juices are pulled out and he has no more milk left for us, and the story is made, the only real way to get a continuation of the story with qaulity consistent of the previous works is to let him write when it comes to him. Sadly he might never finish it but its better than forcing him to write and probably get a sub par story, we all saw how just a bad ending can ruin the whole story from the show, and if its not continued then atleast it gets to live on in therorizing and what you think happens.
That's not Ned Stark. The whole spectacle on why he bothered to stay behind was to honor his best friend's wish. If Robert didn't die that soon, he would've took care of business, resign as hand and leave.
Well, perhaps. But it's not like the Hand of the King can just take a random trip all the way to Dragonstone with no justification. And I highly doubt that Stannis would've excepted an invitation.
@@gerholdegdseffecaddy7092 Ned is no longer hand of the king, the king is dead. Stannis admired Ned, he tells Jon this, so he would have met with him especially seeing Robert has died
@Gaius Wyrden that is for sure, but they already found out Ned’s intentions which lead Cersei to poison Robert. Ned going to Stannis probably would have resulted in what played out but I think Ned should have gotten his family together and went to Stannis. I am thinking Stannis plays a completely different role in the winds of winter than in the show
I love how Martin speaks of this as it is a true lesson in history, when in fact it´s something he thought up from his imagination! Amazing storytelling and lore!
I just found it weird he felt the need to explain it at all: Ned goofed by trying to do the "right thing" in a place filled with people who didn't give a crap about the right thing. It was pretty obvious in the book and the show. It's like needing an explanation for why Ned died after being executed: "The issue was his head wasn't attached to his body anymore, which you need in order to be considered alive" lol.
After all these years and books and Ned is still my favorite character in the series. It's a testament to how strong of a writer Marin was/is that he could give one character so much nuance and rich history that people in-universe and in real life still are traumatized by his death.
Yea his legacy lives on throughout the story. The scene when Manderly professes that the North Remembers you know his people still love and admire him.
@@derekweinerttv4163 I'm still traumatized lol finally got my brother to watch the show... "THEY F$%*ING KILLED BOROMIR!" I told him it gets better. Lol needless to say it was a traumatic experience for him
I don't agree that it is nuance. It appears Ned is the most noble character who gave himself for the benefit of others. He hid the Targarian boy (John Snow) in his family to the extent of suffering the disdain of his own family for fathering a bastard, which was a real burden. He sacrificed the Dire Wolf because he needed to consider the bigger picture. He admitted to being a traitor, when he had not been a traitor, took the disgrace to give his daughters a chance to live. He went to serve as Hand because the King said he needed Ned, which Ned knew would be awful for his family. And other things ... He was the only one worth a damn.
Mine as well, even throughout the show, he's the character that strikes differently from everyone else, with every other character having so many shades of grey and conflict within themselves, its definitely something special to see someone so sure of their ideals and heroic
The Lannister kids had the Targaryen problem, in that the gods flipped a coin with them.. joff got full bodied evil while tommen and Myrcella were sweet and humble. Not much room for middle ground.
And really Jaime should have stepped in, Ned tried to save the children Jaime loved, Jaime's only children - Jaime knows Eddard despises him as King Slayer and yet the Stark is so kind to the bastards still ... Jaime needed to save Ned somehow or at least take a vow to return the favor and protect Ned's children and "bastard" Jon.
People always rip on Ned and call him an idiot over this mistake but honestly when you remember the two Targaryen children and how shook up Ned was over their deaths it makes sense. An emotional, foolish decision, but an understandable one.
I love hearing GRRM talk about these characters like he’s just a historian, and their actions and choices were their own doing. It really makes me respect him even more as a storyteller
Well as to that in his thoughts in the books he didnt really trust anyone really in kings landing including littlefinger for a time he even had doubts wether robert would help him against the lannisters if it comes to that In that particular situation he was desperate bc he needed help and turned down renly which i consider the more stupid move
His biggest mistake isn't trusting baelish, but he rejects baelish advice. I'm really sure baelish will be on ned side if ned just makes a peace with lannister and wait for stannis to come, then baelish, as evil as he is, he will make a chaos bassed on lannisters vs baratheons, not lannisters vs starks.
Thats littlefingers character he proves himself to be so reliable its disturbing. And ned didn't have a lot of allies in court. Hell the only reason why cersie knew what ned was doing wad because sansa snitched about what ned was doing
@@youshallnotpass2156 He turned down renly because he didnt want to forcefully capture the lannister children( which is what renly wanted to do). But there are a thousand ways we can think of now with which he could have gotten out of it with his head intact . He was probably the unluckiest fellow in Westeroes
@Anthony Johnson in the book renly didnt say at that point he wanted to be king He just wanted his and neds ass saved and ned to be protector of the realm until succession is decided And to your other comment its actually no horseshit what the other one said Littlefinger started all the trouble in the first place bc he had differences with stannis so he wanted the war and conflict actually with him after all he gave ned the proposal to support joffrey against stannis and you cant be 100 percent sure that ned wouldnt accept Basically littlefinger only betrayed ned bc he didnt want to side with stannis if ned did And littlefinger actually didnt sent the catspaw in the books
"you're a very honorable man lord stark, and when I look at your situation I understand why there are so few honorable men." -Varys visiting Ned in the Cells beneath Red Keep(I butchered his quote tho)
It's sad that he wasn't a good enough person to put the lives of innocents over his own honour. He chose to risk a major war over giving himself a few sleepless nights. What a selfish prick
GRRM reportedly made about $15 million a season from GOT the show (doesn't even include increased book sales etc...). As mistakes go, I'm pretty sure that's one we could all live with lol.
@@iorekby He said that many people have propose to him to do a movie but ( only with Jon or Dany as protagonist) and he allways said no because he didn't want some plot and carachter to be ignore He only accept D&D because it looked like their were competent ( and were able go guess who Jon mother was)
@@Josue-mt8ni But a long-running TV show is far more lucrative than a few movies and is much more likely to succeed vs a 2 hour movie. Case in point: The Tolkien estate made about $100 million from the LOTR trilogy. GRRM has initially made more than that from the GOT series, and with syndication will continue to make more for a long time to come. I do agree money wasn't his only reason for going with D&D and a show, but obviously, money was a factor to him. GRRM has a lot of expensive hobbies, he needs the scratch lol.
"you're a very honorable man lord stark, and when I look at your situation I understand why there are so few honorable men." -Varys visiting Ned in the Cells beneath Red Keep(I butchered his quote tho)
All of these "Ned Stark, so stupid!" memes illustrate how widely a lot of people missed the point of the story. Sure, Ned dies in the war--but so did any number of "smarter" people, including all the ones responsible for his death. The big difference is, after Ned died, his example inspired those loyal to him, and his house ultimately came out stronger for cleaving to this legacy. Whereas the "smarter" (Ned is perfectly smart, but fine) and more pragmatic lords who thought they got everything over on him? Forgotten--and their houses and families with them.
how is House Stark stronger than before? They´re at the brink of extinction, their Home is in the hands of the ones who betrayed them and they lost their wealth, power and are marked as traitors to the crown.
This is too true, in the books, you’ve got people still fighting for Ned’s memory : years after he’s dead. You really don’t see that with any other lord
The other reason Ned tells Cersei about his knowledge of her kids parentage, I always felt, is that Ned is guilty of the same thing as Cersei, he is hiding the true parentage of Jon Snow from Robert to protect him, so he perhaps feels a bit of empathy with Cersei
I doubt he feels empathy for the paternity fraudster. He feels empathy for the children, but says that exile was much better than she deserved. If it wasn't for those kids, he'd have told Robert and got popcorn while he strangled her and Jaime to death in both of his hands.
I came here because it occurred to me that it wasn’t Ned’s mistakes that got him killed... it was everyone around him who made the mistake of thinking they could control Joffrey. They all but admitted they didnt want Ned to actually die-just have the pedestal kicked from under him. But Joffrey’s actions kick started the war. Or the bulk of the war at least.
@@evilsimeon to be fair, i dont know much about the books. but the show made it seem like Cersei wasnt the one behind the bastards being killed. When tyrion confronted her and it becomes apparent that it was Joffrey's actions once again. To secure his throne. Its possible im misremembering that; its been a minute.
@@dithom4994it was Cersei in the books, Joffery doesn't even know of the incest allegations in the books. In the show was Joffery, since he is aware of the allegations.
I know it shouldn't be surprising that fantasy authors know everything possible about their characters, but it still astounds me every time. The imagination it takes to come up with all these backstories, personalities, strengths, weaknesses, subtleties, desires, etc. It's craziness. Martin's got to be the closest we have to the Tolkien of our era.
He's in some ways better. He believes that death should have a cost and I agree. Gandalf dies and comes back enhanced. Dying literally helped him and all of Middle-Earth out. There's a cost with death in GoT and it isn't a benefit.
@@AeneasGemini Yeah he totally knew what was going to happen, he saw the future and knew war was comming, a war that was already put in motion when his wife took Tyrion hostage and Tywin ordered the Mountain to sack the Riverlands, things that had nothing to do with his pride or honor or Cersei and her twincest, and he knew that he was going to be executed even when he confessed against his honor that he was a traitor, and knew his execution was going to lead the North to revolt, and also knew that Stannis was going to claim the throne and Renly was going to do the same, AND that Balon was going to rebel and invade the North. What an awful man.
It seems a common theme in the books that people suffer out of their own environments, because they fail to adapt. Ned goes to Kings Landing and tries to act like he’s in the north. Little finger goes north and tries to act like he’s in Kings Landing and dies. Daenerys comes to Westeros and tries to act like she did in slaver bay.
That’s what makes a good ruler. Being able to understand where you are, and act accordingly, is sooo important in politics. You need to understand that the stakes are so much higher, and that you are an outsider. I think that you’re absolutely right with that.
Ned Stark seemed like the best man in Westeros. Kind, honorable, yet assertive. I see how the intent was for Jon Snow to become Ned Stark. How the lost Targaryen, due to the fact, that Ned Stark raises him, becomes a better man and a better potential king than Daenerys. I think the last seasons were rushed and therefore clumsily executed, because the outcome makes very much sense. Jon is ultimately Ned in the end, more than his own children were.
You are right, Jon clings to Ned’s ideals, aspires to them and would damn himself to hold them. Rob wasn’t far off either, killing Karstark for his vengeful killing of the Lannister boys, an act that cost him, as he new it would.
The show was intentionally sabotaged to turn yet another cultural icon into a steaming pile. You may have noticed the implausible bad writing for Amazons LOTR and the new Star Wars series. None were accidents.
To be honest, I think he did. Ned never really trusted anyone in King's Landing and he wasn't afraid to call people out for their bs. He also became aware of Robert's . . . laziness (shall we say) early on. You have to remember he devoted a lot of time to cleaning up the Crown's expenses and logistics. The reason he stayed, I believe, was thanks to his strong sense of duty and friendship. You don't just receive THE KING who traveled thousands of miles specifically to request your services and turn him down. This is exacerbated by the fact that they both fought a war together.
It is a great tale. But keep in mind he was inspired by real historic events. So the tale is great, but it wouldnt have been possible without the real events in the history of the monarchy in England and europe
Classic villain mistake: Monologuing. Classic hero mistake: Explaining to the bad guy how you've got the goods on him, and he's going down, just as soon as the boss gets back..... By the way, Ned Stark did do one incredibly stupid thing that was on par with his mistake with Cersei, that almost got the entire world destroyed: when a terrified member of the Night's Watch fled south and tried to explain what he was running from and why, Ned refused to listen to him, and instead immediately chopped his head off. Only later at some celebration did he speak to one of his men about the man's "ravings", which he then dismissed. If Ned had just listened and not thoughtlessly said "The Rules are the Rules, let me honorably chop his head off now", he would have discovered that the young Night's Watch soldier was not a traitor, but simply fled in terror before the coming Army of the Dead. He could have had a couple of his men travel back to the Wall with the young man as a prisoner, and had him tell what he saw to the rest of the Night's Watch with his own eyes. The Maester would have confirmed that the Army of the Dead was marching, and Ned Stark could have warned Robert that they were coming; they would had had years to prepare for the Army of the Dead. Because of Ned's thoughtless act of "honor", the Night King had years to gather his forces, and very nearly succeeded in destroying all life on their world.
The member of the nights watch was mumbling and not making any sense so ned probably thought he'd lost his mind, he was also executed for not going to the nights watch and warning them instead fleeing as far south as he could.
Will went completely insane after he ran from the nights watch. He’d just seen his fellow warriors get murdered by some spectral force, a creature of the forest. Then he fled the wall and ran to Winterfell. Ned had likely met loads of turncloaks who spewed bullshit about grumpkins and trolls and whatever, so when someone preached about the Others, he dismissed it once more. Besides, sending ravens over the ramblings of a deserter would have been nonsensical and time-wasting, and Ned still has a reputation; if he gave in to the mutterings of a literal ‘traitor’, it would look particularly bad on his resume, especially considering the King of Westeros is knocking on his door only a few days later. From Ned’s POV, Will was a coward, nothing more. It was a mistake that could not have been foreseen, or righted, in any logical way.
Ned’s failure to me is his inability to maximise on the powerful post he held, Hand of the King. Why he did not appoint his most loyal men to take control of the Gold Cloaks and secure the city is beyond me.
That’s not enough, he literally stepped into the lion’s mouth the moment he arrived at kings landing. His best chance was to flee with Renly Baratheon.
I think it also shows that through the process of writing, how much the characters have developed. At the start of the books, characters were really built around one single quality: Ned the honourable, Stannis the Just, Jaime the Arrogant, Tywin the mighty and this guy that guy. Yet, now we are at the end of the fifth book, characters are so much more than this. JUST AMAZING
Sometimes I get mad with GRRM for not finishing his books but then I watch these videos of him talking about the world he has created and I can't help but love the old man all over again.
My friends and cousins sometime ask to me, "who is your favorite character? " In the show it's tyrion lannister, and in the books it's jon snow. But my answer always is "Ned stark "🗡️...
I stopped feeling that way once he killed Lady. His whole thing was honor, but there he committed an act he knew was unjust. He betrayed an ultimately loyal companion for the sake of a king that was not loyal to him in any meaningful way.
@@jeffreystayman375 i respect your opinion ☺️. But for me that's one of the many reason why i like him. He knows lady will die any way, cersei will ensure that. It was a royal command, he can't do anything to save lady. So he decided to do it himself. Because, she is of the north, and she deserves better than a butcher. After that, he arranged some of his men to carry the body all the way back to north and bury it in winterfell. because, lady is not just any direwolf, she is his family❤️
Jeffrey Stayman he was putting his children first in that scenario, if he or someone else didn’t kill lady Cersei might take revenge on the starks and Ned had his daughters with them
@@Ready-ForTheEndshes a child, grown ass men dont even disagree with the prince. arya doesnt understand or respect hierarchy in any form. which is lovely but not realistic for sansa. she learns to fight with cunning and arya with swords.
People call Ned stupid, but they forget that history is full of people who do stupid things because their emotions make them act irrationally. Everyone on this earth in fact has had that happen to them, and many times yes it is a big enough mistake to cost them their lives. Not to mention as readers of the book, we're privy to a lot more information than Ned ever had about the people around him. It would have been a much different perspective if the book had only been written through Ned's POV.
I love GRRM's characters &Writing. Even when they make mistakes, they are so believable. I could imagine Ned's despair in having to tell Robert the terrible news.
It's so good that the author knows everything about each character, each place, each peace of the world he created. I love it so much give me hearwarming
Ned is my all time favorite character and he is what kept my interest in book one. I was so mad when George killed him off I refused to read the rest of the books until 2 years later.
Were Ned's actions foolish? Absolutely. However, we have to look at the bigger picture, which is that he never should've been put in the position to have to make that decision. Ned had two things working against him there-- one, Cat seizing Tyrion. This forced Ned to play politics in a hurry, and exacerbated the tension between Ned and the Lannisters, which in turn caused Robert to go on that fateful hunting trip. Which of course presented Cersei with the golden opportunity to assassinate him, and was when Ned confronted her. That's number one. The second thing that worked against Ned- Sansa, his own daughter. Ned had arranged for himself and the girls to be smuggled from the capital and brought back to Winterfell by boat, but Sansa ratted him out to Cersei (and patted herself on the back for a job well done), which of course led to Cersei trapping them all in the city. Literally the next day they all would've been gone. So yeah, Ned did what he did, but I can't condemn him without also condemning the people who forced him into the position he was in at the time. Those Tully women were far more dangerous for Ned than Cersei ever was. Total pit vipers.
@@TorianTammas I believe he did mean to tell Robert, but anticipating that an excessive punishment would certainly befall the innocent children, he decided to act mercifully. So he was going to tell Robert anyway, and they would all be punished with being disowned and exiled, but at least they would still live.
Basically Ned can't play the - 'keep your mouth shut game' (thats way simpler than playing the actual GOT's) You never reveal a battle plan. If you reveal anything, reveal a miss-direction, to trick your enemy into the wrong action
Ned made the classic (I could say cliché) mistake. Telling the bad guy that you have the goods on them and you're going to expose them gives the bad guy only one possible action: kill the whistleblower. Ned was entirely smart enough to know this, but for the plot to progress he had to have an attack of stupidity.
It also helps that Robert decided to clear the room when announcing his decision to make Ned the King after his death, instead of telling everyone. That part really pisses me off. Robert knows how manipulative and power hungry Cersei is...he should have known what would happen by only telling Ned his intentions. This is the real BIG mistake, but again, necessary for the plot to develop.
Some people are truly that stupid. I agree Ned knew better but he also believed his idea would work because he isn't experienced in southern politics, he never played the game of thrones and we know how different things are in the North compared to the rest of the 7 kingdoms.
@@lordblkfyretully8867 I don't think Ned truly understood the level of cunning that Cersei was. Outside a very small group of people (Tywin, Tyrion, Ollena, Little Finger, and Varys) Cersei is one of the most intelligent people to be given power. Her cunning is second only to her cruelty and that is something Ned legit did not account for. He figured that, while she was smart, she was a mother that loved her children and would realize that the "jig was up". He figured she'd be so distraught over finding out what had happened, she'd either give up or do something stupid.
Love your uploads of these interviews. I know this is off topic but I've always felt Robert possibly suspected that Jon wasn't Neds Bastard and the he could've been the son of Lyanna and Rhaegar. I feel like he never asked because he knew Ned would protect him at any cost and Robert wouldn't have wanted to go to war against his best friend. When he asks Ned who his bastards mother was Ned says names wyla and Robert supposedly buys into it. But Robert is still stunned that his friend would have an affair, he even says "she must've been some kind of woman for Ned Stark to forget his honor". I also wonder if anyone else ever suspected that Jon wasn't truly Neds bastard and actually the son of Lyanna.
@@sophiawilson8696 He is the son of Rhaegar, there is a "fake" Aegon running around. But Jon is the real son of Rhaegar. Before George RR Martin allowed HBO to make the show, he asked the showrunners who Jon really was and they had to get the answer right or he wouldn't allow them to make the show.
I am actually reading the books now and I am absolutly baffled that the writers chose to leave out so much lore and backstories that were parament for creating and establishing the world and its characters. its like much of the story you see in Season 1 of games of thrones is told from the perspective of the current events and current time line. It is nice that the blu ray box sets came with extra features of lore dumps because honsetly it REALLY needed it, but even then there is ALOT missing. One specific element i noticed that was stripped away in season 1 was the magic of the world. For example G.R.R martin first establishes that in the godswood, there are these tree's with faces on them but yet we don't really see this come into picture into later seasons of the series but he sets the seeds for this very early on. When we are first introduced to Danny of the Targerian's, there is entire back story consisting of about 4 paragraphs worth of reading that dives into her past and how she came to be on the land of Essos from her home born land of Dragonstone with her brother. After reading this, i have a firmer grasp of just who the character Danayeries actually is and her ties to the dragon born blood line as well as how she escaped the throws of the Usurper and Raygeir in conflict with him and of course their journey on the black ships from braavos, tyrosh and eventually to velontis and lys. BUT NO! The Tv show basically cut to the scene "We will all have it back some day sweet sister" with her brother basically mentioning a few sentences about what happened. It wouldn't be that hard to just insert some flashback maybe like 8 min or so give us a bit of background knowledge on these two characters. One thing I did not like about the TV show is there was literally no flashbacks, no back stories, you had to watch it from the point of the current events, all well kind of piecing together what this world and the history of it was really like based on their tiny little monologue. G. R. R. Martin wrote it this way because it would immposible to grasp everything with out first understanding the lore and stories that predate the current plot line. ALL OF THIS always in just the first 37 pages of book 1.
I always felt that Neds tragic flaw is that on one hand he adheres to ideals somewhat too noble for the world he is in and on the other hand, perhaps because he is first and foremost a soldier, he does not take the full responsibility of transforming those ideals into the full fledged political strategy that is required to create a stable base for his clan under the full complexity of the tide that is rising against him, and general human decency. Arguably he gets too rigid in his faith in the order of the status quo, too complacent in his good faith in his former friend. In the first episode he beheads the refugee who is the harbinger of a darkness that will eventually threaten to overthrow that fragile order along with all human squabbles and bids for power. It is noble to assume the responsibility for carrying out your own death sentences. Yet at the same time - this is the beginning of a series of choices that will eventually lead to his own being beheaded under a perverted order of a balance he sought to maintain. He misses the fact that the time for maintaining balance has already passed and too long he refuses to pick up the mantle that has been passed to him, hoping he can steer through the muddy waters. But they are muddier than he acknowledges an he puts too much stock in Robert, and even in Cersei of all people, assessing people too much by his own standards of reference. In a sense, he is killed by his own sense of honour and sets his children on a dubious path to go and achieve what he did not: Pushing back against the tide of darkness and overthrowing the false kings and usurpers.
@@TorianTammas The fact that you consider Robert a king worthy of loyalty simply for being a king and having power and your automatic adherence to the idea of “duty” and the chain of command tells me a fair bit about you.
Still my favourite character. Broke my heart to see him die. He always tried to go against to flow of a merciless world. Whether he made the right decisions or not is in the eye of the beholder. He was in a position of power too. As Warden and Hand. MayHow could such a great show end so f*****g badly?
I feel like Martin told HBO exactly how his books were going to end, and now that he's seen how poorly received it was he's had to go back and not only distance himself from the show, but also re-write a good portion of WoW as well as any future novel in the series he was planning so as to make it seem like the TV series went completely off page. In the time it's taken him to finish and publish The Winds of Winter, he had released A Game of Thrones (1996) / A Clash of Kings (1998) / A Storm of Swords (2000) / and A Feast For Crows (2005). Four book releases in the span of 9 years, which is the same amount of time he's been clutching The Winds of Winter against his chest like his precious.
Short sighted of you to assume his life, or the world for that matter works the same way as it did in the nineties. He was running at a blistering pace, and had less side work going on so he was also able to laser focus on that one project (ASOIAF), wheras now, he's older, the world works very differently and lord knows what's changed in his life in nearly 30 years, god damn man, give the dude a break, you make it sounds like he owes you money or something, shit.
This guy seems to know a lot about a Song of Ice and Fire.
Yeah it’s weird, guess he’s a fanboy or something
Like seriously this guy must have watched each episode over and over. Bro, get a life you’re not the be-all-end-all.
Ryan Littrell exactly, I bet the author doesn’t even know this much ffs
What a nerd.
Nah. He seems a bit old. he might not have finished the whole story.
"Ned is very honorable, killing children bothers him." Westerosi standards are so high.
Ikr? Here in Argentina we have people making a fuss because they want to kill children and that the government pays them money for it
Haha they would have called him a far right conspiracy theorist if he was like that in our world
I'm fairly certain that the killing of children is near universally frowned upon in common Westerosi culture. But Ned is neither a part of nor is he dealing with mainstream Westerosi society. He's dealing with the elite, the power graspers, most of whom wouldn't bat an eye at the deaths of children if it meant solidifying their position.
Thing is, there are quite a few honorable lords in Westeros, but it's made clear they each have their own limits, places where their code of honor and ethics will sway, and that was Ned's problem. He didn't have that vulnerability, save for when it came to his children, and even then, he refused to risk the lives of other children to save his own life. His moral code was not particularly complex or nuanced and, more than that, it was damn near rigid. Those qualities damned him the moment he rode through the gates of King's Landing.
Theres a reason the Mountain is universally hated and feared, same with Tywin Lannister
AND YET the very first thing we see Ned do is behead a man of the Night's Watch who was 1) probably forced to be there and 2) was trying to warn people about White Walkers.
He story both begins and ends with a beheading that is "honorable" while also completely injust.
He was merciful, and got executed by one of the children he was trying to save.
Wow 🤯
@Anthony Johnson Tommen for gold medal in the high dive category
@@djonketchup2597 bruh😂
Kowabunga
@Anthony Johnson karma
The way Ned Stark and Robert Baratheon acted with each other really felt like they were living in a changing world that they didn't fit in anymore. Ned assumed the rules of honor would allow justice to follow and Robert Baratheon was too blind in his rage to see that the biggest threat was his own family.
Wow that is a brilliant way to put it
You're a fucking moron. That "family" of Robert's is what not only safe guarded the throne for him but actually provided the funds and security his rule needed. So being "too blind" had nothing to do with how he related to The Lannisters. He OWED THEM BIG TIME. And as for Ned, his Northern stubbornness and prejudices would have prevented him from ever fitting in, in the Southern world and the way the politics surrounding the Iron Throne is conducted. Honor has NOTHING to do with it. Reading comprehension is fundamental, IDIOT.
@@kingofpendragon keyboard warrior much
@@reganlowe3877
Butthurt much
Yo, Pendragon, you seem to be forgetting that the Lannisters had been planning to assassinate Robert for ages, they were just waiting until they could deal with renly and Stannis the mannis first, but then Ned learned a truth most foul
“You are an honest and honorable man, Lord Eddard. Ofttimes I forget that. I have met so few of them in my life.” He glanced around the cell. “When I see what honesty and honor have won you, I understand why.”
Did Tyrion say that? Sounds like something he would say...
It was Varys
@@fraydizs7302 Tyrion never met Ned Stark right? I mean they never had a conversation in winterfell
Ah, Lord Varys, you shouldn’t have died. Tyrion made the mistake of telling the mother of dragons, despite his doubts about her increasing willingness to commit violence. And I loved Tyrion too. The end of the last episode though was shite. So, Tyrion becomes the Hand once more? It was an odd ending. And Jon was the rightful heir in the end, while Dany was turning towards becoming an empress bathed in blood apparently. The kingdom would’ve been grateful. Seriously, a Stark/Targaryen, who took out the Targaryen who burnt the innocent in Kings Landing to a crisp, is made to join the watch by the head of a small army of unsullied, in a country they’d never been to before until very recently? It’s very illogical if you think of how those in power would actually respond, & all the Stark’s banner men.
I did like the idea that Sansa wound up ruling as the Queen of the North. She earned it.
@@dshepherd107 yeah and the two smartest men in westeros don't see the simple solution sitting right in front of them. Marry jon and dany, that would ease the north men, it would allow jon and dany to rule as king and queen, and it would allow their children to be legitimate heirs to the throne. INSTEAD, lets just betray dany and tell all of westeros that she fell in love with her niece.
I love how George talks about his epic as if he's a just a knowledgeable historian and deducing their unique personalities of his characters from the facts available
Sup lim. You working on your own version “activity of kings”. Totally original I know I know
Yes because he created a world so big that he can only be an observant.
was about to write a comment similar to yours, you said pretty much what i wanted to say……hehehe
This is why most of you really need to study up on your history. You might want to go back and read somethings that happened in real life called "The War of the Roses. The British empire. The Roman empire. The Persian empire. The Conquistadors. Alexander the Great. Julius Caesar. Cleopatra. The German Reichs. Slavery. And America's colonizations."
If you actually knew your history of the world you wouldn't even make that dumb comment about a man's imagination. Everything he imagined was inspired by factual historic events.
I don't know a lot about Mr. Martin, but I remember Mrs. Le Guin saying something about she doesn't invent her characters so much as discover them.
Ned Stark on George's mistake: "The man who conceives the idea should swing the pen."
He should finish the story.
Underrated...
@@annstillwell730 I think the show is a clear indication of what happens when a story is shipped to a deadline.
@@1992jamo And we're now finding out what happens when it's shipped with no deadline. I would bet all my money this series won't finish.
@@abuabdullah9878sorta the way of things, we cant chain george to an iron bar and milk him till all the creative juices are pulled out and he has no more milk left for us, and the story is made, the only real way to get a continuation of the story with qaulity consistent of the previous works is to let him write when it comes to him. Sadly he might never finish it but its better than forcing him to write and probably get a sub par story, we all saw how just a bad ending can ruin the whole story from the show, and if its not continued then atleast it gets to live on in therorizing and what you think happens.
Ned’s biggest mistake was he didn’t put on the season 8 plot armor 👌🏼
Plot helmet*
🤣🤣🤣 I'm still trying to figure out how arya reached the night king, unharmed
@@tonyiommi2380 Plot Gorget*
@@piyusarkar3065 2D should have just had her throw a knife at the night king. It's more believable than what the show did.
@@DeansDiscourse exactly!
It's Sean Bean we're talking about, he was doomed from the moment he stepped foot on the set!
Yep, geoffrey jack chopped down the sean bean stalk.
The Commentary we are all looking for.
True dat
Dead meme. Pass.
@@33shin33 Not really.
The moment he figured out he should’ve packed his bags and gone north as fast as humanly possible
My thought as well sometimes
Sansa: I'mma end this man's whole career dude...
Should have listened to cat
That's not Ned Stark. The whole spectacle on why he bothered to stay behind was to honor his best friend's wish. If Robert didn't die that soon, he would've took care of business, resign as hand and leave.
Actually, I think he shouldn't have rushed anything. He should have waited and prepared a little more carefully.
Ned should have placed the letter in the hand of Stannis himself.
Well, perhaps. But it's not like the Hand of the King can just take a random trip all the way to Dragonstone with no justification. And I highly doubt that Stannis would've excepted an invitation.
@@gerholdegdseffecaddy7092 Ned is no longer hand of the king, the king is dead. Stannis admired Ned, he tells Jon this, so he would have met with him especially seeing Robert has died
@Gaius Wyrden that is for sure, but they already found out Ned’s intentions which lead Cersei to poison Robert. Ned going to Stannis probably would have resulted in what played out but I think Ned should have gotten his family together and went to Stannis. I am thinking Stannis plays a completely different role in the winds of winter than in the show
@Gaius Wyrden they did what they wanted anyway including cutting off Ned’s head
@Gaius Wyrden that idiot😕
The kids were “Pure Lannister” as much as you could get lmao
Youre right, because even Tywin’s wife was his own cousin 😂
@@fletchercalderbank8498 1st cousin hahah
@@fletchercalderbank8498 incest is in their blood.
Tommen was definitely Jamie's son.
@nomar Dinkleberg and yet the only justification he gets on the wiki is he was a "puppet" which is kind of true at face value but come on.
I love how Martin speaks of this as it is a true lesson in history, when in fact it´s something he thought up from his imagination! Amazing storytelling and lore!
@Samuel Duchesne come again?
He almost create mitology whit this series, it's amazing
@@aaaaa8489 what do you mean almost?
I just found it weird he felt the need to explain it at all: Ned goofed by trying to do the "right thing" in a place filled with people who didn't give a crap about the right thing. It was pretty obvious in the book and the show. It's like needing an explanation for why Ned died after being executed: "The issue was his head wasn't attached to his body anymore, which you need in order to be considered alive" lol.
@@iorekby someone hurt you so bad
After all these years and books and Ned is still my favorite character in the series. It's a testament to how strong of a writer Marin was/is that he could give one character so much nuance and rich history that people in-universe and in real life still are traumatized by his death.
Yea his legacy lives on throughout the story. The scene when Manderly professes that the North Remembers you know his people still love and admire him.
Traumatized might be a stretch lol
@@derekweinerttv4163 I'm still traumatized lol finally got my brother to watch the show... "THEY F$%*ING KILLED BOROMIR!" I told him it gets better. Lol needless to say it was a traumatic experience for him
I don't agree that it is nuance. It appears Ned is the most noble character who gave himself for the benefit of others. He hid the Targarian boy (John Snow) in his family to the extent of suffering the disdain of his own family for fathering a bastard, which was a real burden. He sacrificed the Dire Wolf because he needed to consider the bigger picture. He admitted to being a traitor, when he had not been a traitor, took the disgrace to give his daughters a chance to live. He went to serve as Hand because the King said he needed Ned, which Ned knew would be awful for his family. And other things ... He was the only one worth a damn.
Mine as well, even throughout the show, he's the character that strikes differently from everyone else, with every other character having so many shades of grey and conflict within themselves, its definitely something special to see someone so sure of their ideals and heroic
I hope Tommen and Myrcella will one day know that Ned Stark died because he tried to save them.
I think that one day is long past for them now.
Those two might have been capable of understanding it. Joffrey, not so much...
The Lannister kids had the Targaryen problem, in that the gods flipped a coin with them.. joff got full bodied evil while tommen and Myrcella were sweet and humble.
Not much room for middle ground.
And really Jaime should have stepped in, Ned tried to save the children Jaime loved, Jaime's only children - Jaime knows Eddard despises him as King Slayer and yet the Stark is so kind to the bastards still ... Jaime needed to save Ned somehow or at least take a vow to return the favor and protect Ned's children and "bastard" Jon.
Manic Street bro there’s nothing wrong with being passionate abt a fictional series stfu
People always rip on Ned and call him an idiot over this mistake but honestly when you remember the two Targaryen children and how shook up Ned was over their deaths it makes sense. An emotional, foolish decision, but an understandable one.
Thanks for repeating what was said in the video
@@DudeInOhio85 haha. Not bad ))
He was punished for being a normal human being with a conscience.
Plus he knows Jon is a Targaryen too. And Robert would kill him too in a heartbeat.
@@lpphillyfan You hit it on the head. Everyone else is just repeating what was already said.
Rip Ned stark. The best and most loyal character in the whole series. He’s definitely missed in the later seasons by me for surrrree
If you like Ned Stark, you'll love Duke Leto Atreides. Basically the same story.
I love hearing GRRM talk about these characters like he’s just a historian, and their actions and choices were their own doing. It really makes me respect him even more as a storyteller
That’s actually a very common pattern for writers.
crazy part is this all came from his imagination. i bet he is a great liar
I think he has a history major
Petyr Baelish: Don't trust me, Ned.
Ned: *trusts him anyway*
Love the guy but come on
Well as to that in his thoughts in the books he didnt really trust anyone really in kings landing including littlefinger for a time he even had doubts wether robert would help him against the lannisters if it comes to that
In that particular situation he was desperate bc he needed help and turned down renly which i consider the more stupid move
His biggest mistake isn't trusting baelish, but he rejects baelish advice. I'm really sure baelish will be on ned side if ned just makes a peace with lannister and wait for stannis to come, then baelish, as evil as he is, he will make a chaos bassed on lannisters vs baratheons, not lannisters vs starks.
Thats littlefingers character he proves himself to be so reliable its disturbing. And ned didn't have a lot of allies in court. Hell the only reason why cersie knew what ned was doing wad because sansa snitched about what ned was doing
@@youshallnotpass2156 He turned down renly because he didnt want to forcefully capture the lannister children( which is what renly wanted to do). But there are a thousand ways we can think of now with which he could have gotten out of it with his head intact . He was probably the unluckiest fellow in Westeroes
@Anthony Johnson in the book renly didnt say at that point he wanted to be king
He just wanted his and neds ass saved and ned to be protector of the realm until succession is decided
And to your other comment its actually no horseshit what the other one said
Littlefinger started all the trouble in the first place bc he had differences with stannis so he wanted the war and conflict actually with him after all he gave ned the proposal to support joffrey against stannis and you cant be 100 percent sure that ned wouldnt accept
Basically littlefinger only betrayed ned bc he didnt want to side with stannis if ned did
And littlefinger actually didnt sent the catspaw in the books
Honour got him killed. He showed mercy to cersei and her children. He underestimated cersei. Also Robert's death was an advantage for cersei
Cersei*
@@gabrieloliveira9501 👍
You could also say he overestimated cercei
"you're a very honorable man lord stark, and when I look at your situation I understand why there are so few honorable men." -Varys visiting Ned in the Cells beneath Red Keep(I butchered his quote tho)
It's sad that he wasn't a good enough person to put the lives of innocents over his own honour. He chose to risk a major war over giving himself a few sleepless nights. What a selfish prick
Trusting in D&D was Georges mistake
GRRM reportedly made about $15 million a season from GOT the show (doesn't even include increased book sales etc...). As mistakes go, I'm pretty sure that's one we could all live with lol.
@@iorekby i doubt he cares about money that much they seemed to ruin his legacy and all the hard work
@@MariusNinjai If he didn't care about money, he never would've agreed to a TV show. He was already a wealthy best-selling author before GOT.
@@iorekby He said that many people have propose to him to do a movie but ( only with Jon or Dany as protagonist) and he allways said no because he didn't want some plot and carachter to be ignore
He only accept D&D because it looked like their were competent ( and were able go guess who Jon mother was)
@@Josue-mt8ni But a long-running TV show is far more lucrative than a few movies and is much more likely to succeed vs a 2 hour movie.
Case in point: The Tolkien estate made about $100 million from the LOTR trilogy. GRRM has initially made more than that from the GOT series, and with syndication will continue to make more for a long time to come.
I do agree money wasn't his only reason for going with D&D and a show, but obviously, money was a factor to him. GRRM has a lot of expensive hobbies, he needs the scratch lol.
"you're a very honorable man lord stark, and when I look at your situation I understand why there are so few honorable men." -Varys visiting Ned in the Cells beneath Red Keep(I butchered his quote tho)
yooo George with no Cap
How the hell does he take off the hat and look MORE like a train conductor??
Yoshikage Kira he’s looking clean
A very rare occurence indeed.
He looks like a maester
I was wondering if anyone else noticed that.....
And why does he have more hair than I do??
So Ned died to save the boy that called for his head.
Damn.
@Xarne 420 well the way he said it is the stupidest one possible but he's kinda right
Robert hammering joffery would be great
All of these "Ned Stark, so stupid!" memes illustrate how widely a lot of people missed the point of the story. Sure, Ned dies in the war--but so did any number of "smarter" people, including all the ones responsible for his death.
The big difference is, after Ned died, his example inspired those loyal to him, and his house ultimately came out stronger for cleaving to this legacy. Whereas the "smarter" (Ned is perfectly smart, but fine) and more pragmatic lords who thought they got everything over on him? Forgotten--and their houses and families with them.
how is House Stark stronger than before? They´re at the brink of extinction, their Home is in the hands of the ones who betrayed them and they lost their wealth, power and are marked as traitors to the crown.
@@DieserOli2127: You, ah, seem to be a couple of seasons behind.
@@Tamlinearthly were not talking about the show
@@wisdommanari6701: Don't tell me what I'm talking about, I know well better than you do.
This is too true, in the books, you’ve got people still fighting for Ned’s memory : years after he’s dead. You really don’t see that with any other lord
Amazing he’s telling us like a historian rather than a storyteller and it sounded awfully authentic and real!
The other reason Ned tells Cersei about his knowledge of her kids parentage, I always felt, is that Ned is guilty of the same thing as Cersei, he is hiding the true parentage of Jon Snow from Robert to protect him, so he perhaps feels a bit of empathy with Cersei
I've actually never seen anybody bring that up, that's really interesting!
Also she's really hot
I doubt he feels empathy for the paternity fraudster. He feels empathy for the children, but says that exile was much better than she deserved. If it wasn't for those kids, he'd have told Robert and got popcorn while he strangled her and Jaime to death in both of his hands.
That is not even the same thing.
I came here because it occurred to me that it wasn’t Ned’s mistakes that got him killed... it was everyone around him who made the mistake of thinking they could control Joffrey. They all but admitted they didnt want Ned to actually die-just have the pedestal kicked from under him. But Joffrey’s actions kick started the war. Or the bulk of the war at least.
Not entirely correct. Cersi was having Robert’s bastards killed. She wanted Robert gone to become queen reagent. She hated him and her life.
This does make me wonder if the Red Wedding would have happened if Ned still lived.
@@evilsimeon to be fair, i dont know much about the books. but the show made it seem like Cersei wasnt the one behind the bastards being killed. When tyrion confronted her and it becomes apparent that it was Joffrey's actions once again. To secure his throne. Its possible im misremembering that; its been a minute.
@@dithom4994it was Cersei in the books, Joffery doesn't even know of the incest allegations in the books. In the show was Joffery, since he is aware of the allegations.
@@evilsimeon Nah in the show and book I'm pretty sure its joffery
I know it shouldn't be surprising that fantasy authors know everything possible about their characters, but it still astounds me every time. The imagination it takes to come up with all these backstories, personalities, strengths, weaknesses, subtleties, desires, etc.
It's craziness. Martin's got to be the closest we have to the Tolkien of our era.
He's in some ways better. He believes that death should have a cost and I agree. Gandalf dies and comes back enhanced. Dying literally helped him and all of Middle-Earth out. There's a cost with death in GoT and it isn't a benefit.
Ned was a great man. Even though it was an arranged marriage he loved catelyn and his children. Now that's an honourable man. Take notes Rhaegar
Ygritte: oh Jon Snow, do that thing you do with your tongue...
Snow: I dun wan' et
He's a terrible man, he chose to protect his conscience over preventing a possible war. It's an incredibly person that does that
@@AeneasGemini Yeah he totally knew what was going to happen, he saw the future and knew war was comming, a war that was already put in motion when his wife took Tyrion hostage and Tywin ordered the Mountain to sack the Riverlands, things that had nothing to do with his pride or honor or Cersei and her twincest, and he knew that he was going to be executed even when he confessed against his honor that he was a traitor, and knew his execution was going to lead the North to revolt, and also knew that Stannis was going to claim the throne and Renly was going to do the same, AND that Balon was going to rebel and invade the North. What an awful man.
If I have to give up my honor in order to avoid a war, thats a war worth fighting for
@@amba74 this guy literally just complimented himself in third person
It seems a common theme in the books that people suffer out of their own environments, because they fail to adapt. Ned goes to Kings Landing and tries to act like he’s in the north. Little finger goes north and tries to act like he’s in Kings Landing and dies. Daenerys comes to Westeros and tries to act like she did in slaver bay.
That’s what makes a good ruler.
Being able to understand where you are, and act accordingly, is sooo important in politics. You need to understand that the stakes are so much higher, and that you are an outsider. I think that you’re absolutely right with that.
Lf died bcz of bad writing
If anything he is from the north lol
Hearing him talk about this is magical lol
Ned Stark seemed like the best man in Westeros. Kind, honorable, yet assertive. I see how the intent was for Jon Snow to become Ned Stark. How the lost Targaryen, due to the fact, that Ned Stark raises him, becomes a better man and a better potential king than Daenerys. I think the last seasons were rushed and therefore clumsily executed, because the outcome makes very much sense. Jon is ultimately Ned in the end, more than his own children were.
You are right, Jon clings to Ned’s ideals, aspires to them and would damn himself to hold them. Rob wasn’t far off either, killing Karstark for his vengeful killing of the Lannister boys, an act that cost him, as he new it would.
The show was intentionally sabotaged to turn yet another cultural icon into a steaming pile. You may have noticed the implausible bad writing for Amazons LOTR and the new Star Wars series. None were accidents.
He should have seen the King was a buffoon surrounded by vipers and noped out of that situation.
To be honest, I think he did. Ned never really trusted anyone in King's Landing and he wasn't afraid to call people out for their bs. He also became aware of Robert's . . . laziness (shall we say) early on. You have to remember he devoted a lot of time to cleaning up the Crown's expenses and logistics. The reason he stayed, I believe, was thanks to his strong sense of duty and friendship. You don't just receive THE KING who traveled thousands of miles specifically to request your services and turn him down. This is exacerbated by the fact that they both fought a war together.
This almost feels like I am watching a Historian talk stuff in a Nat Geo documentary.
Ned’s biggest mistake: Leaving the north PERIODT
Don’t forget the king gets what he wants, Robert was going to take him anyway.
No, he actually could have declined and it probably would have been better for him and Robert
Catelyn was right after all
If Ned put his foot down and told Robert he didn't want to go, Robert more than likely would have chosen Stannis instead.
GeeBeeSee Robert is king and could of ordered him to be his hand if he wanted Ned so badly
Its amazing to hear him talk about the characters. Characters in his head have more personality than some people I know in real life
This has to be one of the greatest tales ever written. It’s mind boggling
It is a great tale. But keep in mind he was inspired by real historic events. So the tale is great, but it wouldnt have been possible without the real events in the history of the monarchy in England and europe
This man is a geniu.
Thank you George for this masterpiece that we all got to experience. You’re brilliant!
Classic villain mistake: Monologuing.
Classic hero mistake: Explaining to the bad guy how you've got the goods on him, and he's going down, just as soon as the boss gets back.....
By the way, Ned Stark did do one incredibly stupid thing that was on par with his mistake with Cersei, that almost got the entire world destroyed: when a terrified member of the Night's Watch fled south and tried to explain what he was running from and why, Ned refused to listen to him, and instead immediately chopped his head off. Only later at some celebration did he speak to one of his men about the man's "ravings", which he then dismissed. If Ned had just listened and not thoughtlessly said "The Rules are the Rules, let me honorably chop his head off now", he would have discovered that the young Night's Watch soldier was not a traitor, but simply fled in terror before the coming Army of the Dead. He could have had a couple of his men travel back to the Wall with the young man as a prisoner, and had him tell what he saw to the rest of the Night's Watch with his own eyes. The Maester would have confirmed that the Army of the Dead was marching, and Ned Stark could have warned Robert that they were coming; they would had had years to prepare for the Army of the Dead. Because of Ned's thoughtless act of "honor", the Night King had years to gather his forces, and very nearly succeeded in destroying all life on their world.
The member of the nights watch was mumbling and not making any sense so ned probably thought he'd lost his mind, he was also executed for not going to the nights watch and warning them instead fleeing as far south as he could.
Will went completely insane after he ran from the nights watch. He’d just seen his fellow warriors get murdered by some spectral force, a creature of the forest. Then he fled the wall and ran to Winterfell. Ned had likely met loads of turncloaks who spewed bullshit about grumpkins and trolls and whatever, so when someone preached about the Others, he dismissed it once more. Besides, sending ravens over the ramblings of a deserter would have been nonsensical and time-wasting, and Ned still has a reputation; if he gave in to the mutterings of a literal ‘traitor’, it would look particularly bad on his resume, especially considering the King of Westeros is knocking on his door only a few days later. From Ned’s POV, Will was a coward, nothing more. It was a mistake that could not have been foreseen, or righted, in any logical way.
but ariya could just shank the night king
What are you, his defense attorney from Braavos?
@@rocker1613 Flawless writing
Ned's problem was that he was hand for a perfect world. And this wasn't one. He expected everyone to behave as honorable as he himself was.
This man, loves the aspect of telling a story and what it brings, good or bad. Great author, deserving of his fortune.
Ned’s failure to me is his inability to maximise on the powerful post he held, Hand of the King. Why he did not appoint his most loyal men to take control of the Gold Cloaks and secure the city is beyond me.
Other than the fact he doesn't play politics, I agree with this!!
That’s not enough, he literally stepped into the lion’s mouth the moment he arrived at kings landing. His best chance was to flee with Renly Baratheon.
I think it also shows that through the process of writing, how much the characters have developed.
At the start of the books, characters were really built around one single quality: Ned the honourable, Stannis the Just, Jaime the Arrogant, Tywin the mighty and this guy that guy.
Yet, now we are at the end of the fifth book, characters are so much more than this.
JUST AMAZING
You can see his love for storytelling in his mannerisms.
Sometimes I get mad with GRRM for not finishing his books but then I watch these videos of him talking about the world he has created and I can't help but love the old man all over again.
Tywin: What killed him?
Arya: Loyalty
😭😭😭
My friends and cousins sometime ask to me,
"who is your favorite character? "
In the show it's tyrion lannister, and in the books it's jon snow. But my answer always is
"Ned stark "🗡️...
I stopped feeling that way once he killed Lady. His whole thing was honor, but there he committed an act he knew was unjust. He betrayed an ultimately loyal companion for the sake of a king that was not loyal to him in any meaningful way.
@@jeffreystayman375 i respect your opinion ☺️. But for me that's one of the many reason why i like him. He knows lady will die any way, cersei will ensure that. It was a royal command, he can't do anything to save lady. So he decided to do it himself. Because, she is of the north, and she deserves better than a butcher. After that, he arranged some of his men to carry the body all the way back to north and bury it in winterfell. because, lady is not just any direwolf, she is his family❤️
Jeffrey Stayman he was putting his children first in that scenario, if he or someone else didn’t kill lady Cersei might take revenge on the starks and Ned had his daughters with them
"Lady didn't bite ANYone; she's GOOD!" Fucking breaks my heart every time.
Lady wasn’t there
She should have told the truth
@@Ready-ForTheEndshes a child, grown ass men dont even disagree with the prince. arya doesnt understand or respect hierarchy in any form. which is lovely but not realistic for sansa. she learns to fight with cunning and arya with swords.
He is so amazing
People call Ned stupid, but they forget that history is full of people who do stupid things because their emotions make them act irrationally. Everyone on this earth in fact has had that happen to them, and many times yes it is a big enough mistake to cost them their lives. Not to mention as readers of the book, we're privy to a lot more information than Ned ever had about the people around him. It would have been a much different perspective if the book had only been written through Ned's POV.
Thanks for uploading! What interview are these clips from?
Daniel Braman Extras on the DVD/Blu Ray of first season of GoT I’d hazard a guess
Joffrey is "pure" Lannister. Well that's certainly one way to put it.
My mistake was believing that Martin was going to finish the series when I invested all that time and money on the books and the tv show.
The way he explains it makes it super easy to digest and comprehend
Who woke George up?
Where's his turtle badge! When it's not on his hat he usually wears it elsewhere?
I love GRRM's characters &Writing. Even when they make mistakes, they are so believable. I could imagine Ned's despair in having to tell Robert the terrible news.
I love listening to GRRM talk about characters from A song of ice and fire. Everything he says about them is canon
I can listen to this man all day
Ned was an honorable man in a world where being an honorable man is not enough.
It's so good that the author knows everything about each character, each place, each peace of the world he created. I love it so much give me hearwarming
love hearing him speak as if all of this was history, its awesome
I just love listening to him talk.
i love this man and his storys . such and inspiration . Take your time with your imagination George.
This man's imagination is quite amazing.
One of my favorite series of all time. Regardless of how it ended, I had many years of excitement.
Its so cool to hear the story bits from George himself. I would love to hear the whole story by George. It would awesome
Ned is my all time favorite character and he is what kept my interest in book one. I was so mad when George killed him off I refused to read the rest of the books until 2 years later.
Such a pity that he's never going to finish this great story. :(
George is saying things that I already knew about these characters but I feel like I’m learning so much
This man, who apparently knows a lot, explains so much in detail. It gives you the impression that he won't be able to finish telling all he wants.
Were Ned's actions foolish? Absolutely. However, we have to look at the bigger picture, which is that he never should've been put in the position to have to make that decision. Ned had two things working against him there-- one, Cat seizing Tyrion. This forced Ned to play politics in a hurry, and exacerbated the tension between Ned and the Lannisters, which in turn caused Robert to go on that fateful hunting trip. Which of course presented Cersei with the golden opportunity to assassinate him, and was when Ned confronted her. That's number one. The second thing that worked against Ned- Sansa, his own daughter. Ned had arranged for himself and the girls to be smuggled from the capital and brought back to Winterfell by boat, but Sansa ratted him out to Cersei (and patted herself on the back for a job well done), which of course led to Cersei trapping them all in the city. Literally the next day they all would've been gone.
So yeah, Ned did what he did, but I can't condemn him without also condemning the people who forced him into the position he was in at the time. Those Tully women were far more dangerous for Ned than Cersei ever was. Total pit vipers.
Ned was disloyal as his duty was to his king and to inform him at once. Anything else is disloyalty and a betrayal to his king.
@@TorianTammas I believe he did mean to tell Robert, but anticipating that an excessive punishment would certainly befall the innocent children, he decided to act mercifully. So he was going to tell Robert anyway, and they would all be punished with being disowned and exiled, but at least they would still live.
@@millibillionth I agree, plus as shown with Danerys, Robert had no qualms about killing kids.
Even bigger picture, Ned should've stayed in Winterfel. Stannis should have been named hand of the king.
Basically Ned can't play the - 'keep your mouth shut game' (thats way simpler than playing the actual GOT's)
You never reveal a battle plan. If you reveal anything, reveal a miss-direction, to trick your enemy into the wrong action
Ned made the classic (I could say cliché) mistake. Telling the bad guy that you have the goods on them and you're going to expose them gives the bad guy only one possible action: kill the whistleblower.
Ned was entirely smart enough to know this, but for the plot to progress he had to have an attack of stupidity.
Agreed! Perhaps the ONLY FLAW I hate him for is his HONOR AND HONEST PERSONALITY shit COST HIM his OWN LIFE in the end 😳😅🤐
It also helps that Robert decided to clear the room when announcing his decision to make Ned the King after his death, instead of telling everyone. That part really pisses me off. Robert knows how manipulative and power hungry Cersei is...he should have known what would happen by only telling Ned his intentions. This is the real BIG mistake, but again, necessary for the plot to develop.
Some people are truly that stupid. I agree Ned knew better but he also believed his idea would work because he isn't experienced in southern politics, he never played the game of thrones and we know how different things are in the North compared to the rest of the 7 kingdoms.
For real Ned was definitely TOO NICE and TOO GULLIBLE for LIFE in KINGS LANDING! He wasnt ready to play the Game of Thrones
@@lordblkfyretully8867 I don't think Ned truly understood the level of cunning that Cersei was. Outside a very small group of people (Tywin, Tyrion, Ollena, Little Finger, and Varys) Cersei is one of the most intelligent people to be given power. Her cunning is second only to her cruelty and that is something Ned legit did not account for.
He figured that, while she was smart, she was a mother that loved her children and would realize that the "jig was up". He figured she'd be so distraught over finding out what had happened, she'd either give up or do something stupid.
"There has never lived a Stark who forgot an oath. And with house Stark, the North will follow."
Until Robb.....
gifted story teller; such a read man.
Anyone else imagining laying on the bed with an open fire,George sitting on the other side, where you just listening to his stories? 😩
Are you sick?
Love your uploads of these interviews.
I know this is off topic but I've always felt Robert possibly suspected that Jon wasn't Neds Bastard and the he could've been the son of Lyanna and Rhaegar. I feel like he never asked because he knew Ned would protect him at any cost and Robert wouldn't have wanted to go to war against his best friend. When he asks Ned who his bastards mother was Ned says names wyla and Robert supposedly buys into it. But Robert is still stunned that his friend would have an affair, he even says "she must've been some kind of woman for Ned Stark to forget his honor". I also wonder if anyone else ever suspected that Jon wasn't truly Neds bastard and actually the son of Lyanna.
In the books canon Jon is not son of Rhaegar when he finished his books we going to see.
@@sophiawilson8696 He is the son of Rhaegar, there is a "fake" Aegon running around. But Jon is the real son of Rhaegar. Before George RR Martin allowed HBO to make the show, he asked the showrunners who Jon really was and they had to get the answer right or he wouldn't allow them to make the show.
@@traviswinnie We seen the truth went books come out Jon is the son of Brandon Stark the wild wolf of North and his mother is Asha Dayne.
@@traviswinnie ps that statement is crap he just smile went D and D said that.
Robert isn’t the type of guy to keep his feelings secret or hold things back, and he *hates* targa, he would have confronted Ned if he suspected
It starts a lot of things rolling.
That's kind of an understatement.
George is an excellent story teller.
George let one rip 06:34
Ned is a perfect example of what honor and honesty gives you in politics and war. Sadly..
Not always. Roman Emperor Aurelian was considered so competent and just, even the elites felt like orphaned children after his assassination.
Need more George
literally his voice is so smoothing, he should do radio lol
I love how he leaves it to us to connect the dots and realize that Cersei basically doomed her kids when she rejected Neds offer.
I am actually reading the books now and I am absolutly baffled that the writers chose to leave out so much lore and backstories that were parament for creating and establishing the world and its characters. its like much of the story you see in Season 1 of games of thrones is told from the perspective of the current events and current time line. It is nice that the blu ray box sets came with extra features of lore dumps because honsetly it REALLY needed it, but even then there is ALOT missing. One specific element i noticed that was stripped away in season 1 was the magic of the world. For example G.R.R martin first establishes that in the godswood, there are these tree's with faces on them but yet we don't really see this come into picture into later seasons of the series but he sets the seeds for this very early on. When we are first introduced to Danny of the Targerian's, there is entire back story consisting of about 4 paragraphs worth of reading that dives into her past and how she came to be on the land of Essos from her home born land of Dragonstone with her brother.
After reading this, i have a firmer grasp of just who the character Danayeries actually is and her ties to the dragon born blood line as well as how she escaped the throws of the Usurper and Raygeir in conflict with him and of course their journey on the black ships from braavos, tyrosh and eventually to velontis and lys. BUT NO! The Tv show basically cut to the scene "We will all have it back some day sweet sister" with her brother basically mentioning a few sentences about what happened. It wouldn't be that hard to just insert some flashback maybe like 8 min or so give us a bit of background knowledge on these two characters. One thing I did not like about the TV show is there was literally no flashbacks, no back stories, you had to watch it from the point of the current events, all well kind of piecing together what this world and the history of it was really like based on their tiny little monologue. G. R. R. Martin wrote it this way because it would immposible to grasp everything with out first understanding the lore and stories that predate the current plot line. ALL OF THIS always in just the first 37 pages of book 1.
it’s probably gonna be the same thing with hotd
Thank you, may God bless you all and everyone.
This could have ALL been avoided had Ned told Robert of Cersei and Jamie 😂
George RR Martin is a genius!
"Honorable fool" was the perfect description of Ned. A good heart, but to not fit for the political world.
I can listen to him talk about his world all day.
Listening to him is like listening to a historian. He may take a lot of time to write his books but a lot of efforts goes into them.
I always felt that Neds tragic flaw is that on one hand he adheres to ideals somewhat too noble for the world he is in and on the other hand, perhaps because he is first and foremost a soldier, he does not take the full responsibility of transforming those ideals into the full fledged political strategy that is required to create a stable base for his clan under the full complexity of the tide that is rising against him, and general human decency.
Arguably he gets too rigid in his faith in the order of the status quo, too complacent in his good faith in his former friend. In the first episode he beheads the refugee who is the harbinger of a darkness that will eventually threaten to overthrow that fragile order along with all human squabbles and bids for power. It is noble to assume the responsibility for carrying out your own death sentences. Yet at the same time - this is the beginning of a series of choices that will eventually lead to his own being beheaded under a perverted order of a balance he sought to maintain. He misses the fact that the time for maintaining balance has already passed and too long he refuses to pick up the mantle that has been passed to him, hoping he can steer through the muddy waters. But they are muddier than he acknowledges an he puts too much stock in Robert, and even in Cersei of all people, assessing people too much by his own standards of reference.
In a sense, he is killed by his own sense of honour and sets his children on a dubious path to go and achieve what he did not: Pushing back against the tide of darkness and overthrowing the false kings and usurpers.
He got killed because he was an idiot. His first duty was to his king and he was disloyal not to report to him the truth instantly.
@@TorianTammas The fact that you consider Robert a king worthy of loyalty simply for being a king and having power and your automatic adherence to the idea of “duty” and the chain of command tells me a fair bit about you.
Still my favourite character. Broke my heart to see him die. He always tried to go against to flow of a merciless world. Whether he made the right decisions or not is in the eye of the beholder. He was in a position of power too. As Warden and Hand. MayHow could such a great show end so f*****g badly?
it's amazing how this man got me interested and invested into something that does not exist in reality, but in a figment of his vast imagination.
Ned is a good dude and you can see how maintaining integrity is a struggle and can be dangerous.
I feel like Martin told HBO exactly how his books were going to end, and now that he's seen how poorly received it was he's had to go back and not only distance himself from the show, but also re-write a good portion of WoW as well as any future novel in the series he was planning so as to make it seem like the TV series went completely off page.
In the time it's taken him to finish and publish The Winds of Winter, he had released A Game of Thrones (1996) / A Clash of Kings (1998) / A Storm of Swords (2000) / and A Feast For Crows (2005). Four book releases in the span of 9 years, which is the same amount of time he's been clutching The Winds of Winter against his chest like his precious.
Short sighted of you to assume his life, or the world for that matter works the same way as it did in the nineties. He was running at a blistering pace, and had less side work going on so he was also able to laser focus on that one project (ASOIAF), wheras now, he's older, the world works very differently and lord knows what's changed in his life in nearly 30 years, god damn man, give the dude a break, you make it sounds like he owes you money or something, shit.
Little finger's mistake was an all-seeing nihilist.
Robert is off the chain!!!! Definitely my favorite character...on the show..
Give Ned some credit, he at least had the foresight to send a raven to Stannis before he acted.