Patriarchal religious modesty standards inconvenience women, and they’re not from God.
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- Опубліковано 11 жов 2024
- Continuing our discussion on modesty standards: they are a huge inconvenience to women and they largely benefit men, and that's how we know they're not from God but from patriarchy.
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Eid mubarak and thank you for all your work, may God give you strength and patience against all the soldiers of patriarchy lashing out at you 🙏🏻
Thank you!! Eid mubarak to you and your loved ones as well!! At this point, I'm just deleting comments as they come in if they're from sexist folks. This channel is simply not for them, you know? Blessings on you!
Salam. Welcome back! Where have you been all this time?
Thanks!
I am a Muslim woman married to a Muslim man. And one day out of curiosity I asked him what was considered "awrah" for men and he said he didn't know.. he had never thought about it. For him religion is about Salah and Zakat and fasting and so many other things.. he never has to think about what he is wearing. It's hardly ever a thing to be considered. Such privilege!
Exactly!!!
Have you considered that it may be due to the fact that a man's dress has little to do with what women care about? I'm not entirely familiar but I believe wearing gold and jewelry for men is not allowed?
@@CCRUEnthusist But why should it be one group of people's right to tell another group of people how they must dress?
@CCRUEnthusist, what?
@@kumaranvij Setting societal rules on dress is something that simply exists across all contexts and cultures. I think it's possible that society is setting one consistent standard across both groups but, because of the inherent differences between the groups, the standard is implemented in inherently different ways.
How do you deal with contrevorsial verses in the Quran such as the 4:34 and the whole nisa chapter (btw I’m not coming here with a polemic intent I’m curious on your thoughts and would love to hear yours coz you have a phd and obv kno your stuff :) )
Hi, Daina! Thanks for watching and engaging. I haven't made a separate video myself just yet, but I do discuss 4:34 with guests/authors I have spoken with about the issue that'll give you a good idea of my position on 4:34. Here are two such videos where we talk about it:
- ua-cam.com/video/8U6aJRxmt7w/v-deo.html
- ua-cam.com/video/opjJYIjW3H8/v-deo.html
@@WhatthePatriarchy oh nice appreciate it love your work keep going you have a small following but within a few years your works will have drastic impacts ❤️
Happy to hear about a book happening this year! Thank you for addressing the physical and mental toll it takes on women to constantly be berated about cover, covering "properly", or any modesty standards that are not expected from men
GIRL!!! I cannot stop thinking about the physical and mental and emotional toll it takes on us!! And when I mention this to Muslim dudes who believe in and enable and enforce the patriarchy, they get mad at ME - for pointing this out - instead of at themselves or at those who keep enforcing the patriarchy. The stress is physically unsafe for us!
But why wear it if it's so difficult then. I get those who are forced to wear it if they complain about it but if nobody is forcing you then why are you saying it's hard when you can choose not to wear it?
What makes you think I'm not forced to wear it?
@@waymilky442 If women are not outright forced to wear hijab, they are policed in other ways to confirm to modesty standards. If a dress is too tight, shirt sleeve too short, toes are exposed? so even when you choose to wear hijab, it's scrutinized in ways men do not have to experience. And if you do not wear hijab at all, people police you just as much if not more !
Thank you, Xabeeba!! Exactly. There are literal khutbahs that Muslim men will give to police our clothing and just mere existence in this world. You might be doing everything right, but then you might speak up and a man hears your voice and they act like all your good deeds just got flushed down the toilet. As if that's how God works. That's how the patriarchy works, though.
Not only men, but also women do the same things, indirectly pointing uncovered women are shameful
Yep. Internalized patriarchy / misogyny is so deeply ingrained in people. It's so sad.
8:23 - 8;31 - I think this idea is what a lot of us women feel and even experience, yet, I think we need to flip the script and change both our thinking and the reality around us. Hijab is actually supposed to work the other way around. It us is, as hijabis, who should be commanding how men approach us and deal with us. We are sending a clear message which must be headed. There is actually power in that. We need to both figure out and solve how to make hijab a means of empowerment for ourselves as believers in Allah.
It may have to do with the structure of how some Muslim majority societies function, our lack of proper knowledge about how Islam is supposed to function, and included in that, the adoption of cultural ideas that shame women and their bodies, often erroneously posited as Islam. It's in the reform of these areas will change be seen, but we do have to do work in advocating for proper understandings of Hijab and Islam itself, and make sure we properly understand ourselves as Muslim women as well.
Thank you for your engagement, deedee! Appreciate your comments!
You mentioned that your cousins live in Pakistan. Do you know about Pakistani scholar Javed Ahmad Ghamidi? He seems to be popular among liberal minded & forward thinking Pakistanis
I do know about him. I agree with a lot of his views. He's making a good difference in Pakistani society, although he's not there anymore I hear due to people's contempt for his ideas like Aisha wasn't 6-9 years old when the Prophet s. married her! Can you believe that?
@@WhatthePatriarchy I watched his video where he explained why he left Pakistan. His friend was murdered and his neighbour requested him not to come to the mosque because extremists might blow up the mosque with bombs. That's when he decided to leave
That's so sad. I hope he's at peace where he is now.
Thank you for your videos. Because of you I picked up "Gender and Islam"
Is that Islam and Gender by Leila Ahmed? It's a great book! I have a video summary on it too.
@@WhatthePatriarchy yes that's the one. Your video summary was very helpful.
I'm so glad to hear that, Sadaf!
Looking forward to the book
Thank you!!
I disagree that covering is just for men, It's for Allah and their should be joy in that. I do feel it's important to as much as we can disconnect our actions from men and their expectations. Hijab allows us to, in the process of our striving to connect to Allah, remove the unwanted attention from men to facilitate that pursuit. It is also done so that we are known as Muslims. There are several aspects to hijab.
Thanks for your comment, deedee! I didn't say the hijab is for men; I've never believed that. Men should be and are totally irrelevant as are their opinions on our bodies and whether and how much we cover.
I'm not a fan of the whole "we need to be distinguished and identified as Muslims" - why? How do men distinguish themselves as being Muslims? Why is it that women have to carry this burden of representing themselves and their religions and their communities and men not so much? What's the equivalent for men - how do they make sure people know they are Muslim?
@@WhatthePatriarchy The identity as Muslims actually ties back to my first point about orientation of a woman to her ultimate life pursuit which is worship of Allah SWT. I realize by saying also, it seemed like it was an independent point and not related. When a woman wears hijab, she is identifying her self as a Muslim and therefore all tht it entails, i.e. she is not interested in unwanted attention, catcalls, etc. or anything that will distract her from her pursuit of worshipping Allah.
To the question of 'why': I think we need to ask ourselves why the question in the first place? We could easily say why do men have to provide mahr or financial support for their wives when women are capable of working and earning their own money? In a changing world, women's earning potential is at or even above men's, yet those rulings don't change (the exception is that in some interpretations, the financial arrangement can change, but again it's situation-dependent. The default is what is outlined above).
I don't think differences necessarily mean 'unequal'. Both men and women are being accommodated in ways that suit them best, because they are from Allah and we know that they are best.
Also, respectfully, you state that hijab is and never should be about men, yet you ask at the conclusion of your comment ask what about men? If we believe that hijab is ultimately for Allah, regardless of what men do or say, why are we still concerned about them (RE: "as are their opinions on our bodies and whether and how much we cover".) If it's about taking men out of it, then let's do that completely, as far as why we do what we do. Jmt.
Thanks for your engagement, deedee. What I meant by the hijab isn't about men is that we need to treat it as WITHOUT thinking about what men think of us, how they'll treat us, etc. Or what men think of the hijab.
Everything you said about worship, a woman's purpose, etc. applies to men, too. So I'm still not understnding what the equivalent of the woman's head-covering is for men - why don't men have to cover their head in Islam? If the hijab is about identifying ourselves as Muslims (which I totally disagree with), how do we apply that logic to men? Why do only women need to be identified as Muslims?
Also, I have a video on the hijab you might be interested in watching. One of the things it talks about is this notion of identifying ourselves as Muslims. Historically, in the sahaba's time, it was an issue of class and slavery/freedom. Here's the link: ua-cam.com/video/tmJafU0K1cE/v-deo.htmlsi=FapMkY2aRRO0D2YZ
Hey WTP👋, I think you might find the book No Truth Without Beauty, God, The Quran and women by Leena Ali interesting, especially the chapters on hijab and domestic violence.
Thanks for the recommendation! I'm excited to look into it!
What chapter on domestic violence?
@@waymilky442 The book is available online for free.
@@WhatthePatriarchy Questioning the Veil: Open Letters to Muslim Women by Marnia Lazreg is also great and it’s short. It discusses psychological harm particularly to girl children.
You refused to wear hijab at mosque and are surprised you couldn't enter when you can't even pray without hijab? It's Ramadan. Please research your religion.
Did I say I wasn't wearing a hijab? Silly me - I was covering my hair, I was fully covered, like I said. If you don't actually listen to understand, I'm going to have to block you from this channel or just ignore your comments or delete your comments. Quit this patriarchy of making women go through the labor of explaining themselves to you over and over and start listening better, start listening to actually understand instead of listening to fight.
@@WhatthePatriarchy that explaining is sooo trueee - men dont have to think about it
Don't have to think about what? And would you rather all the men of the world see your body and lust at you?
@@waymilky442 Men can see me and think whatever they want. I can't control their thoughts. But they can't harass or assault me.
I also can think and wear what I want. I won't harass or assault anyone, and no one should harass or assault me.
@@waymilky442 The obsession with the hijab is one of the reasons why women are dehumanized and obsessively sexualized.
Amazing vid!
Thank you for watching!
I watched this to expand my horizons and here what women think about this issue, all I got was indignant ranting, straw man arguments and fallacious suppositions, a waste of my time and patience.
Noted! Thanks for watching. I assure you most women in your personal life would disagree with you. Show it to them and see what they say.
Name one straw man argument made here.
Right, Kumaranvij?! They have no idea what these fallacies actually are. They're clearly offended because they see themselves in the men I'm calling out here.
You can swim in burkini.
Have you tried it? lemme know how it goes for ya. I prefer my current style, though. If you haven't tried it for yourself yet, please never recommend it to others unless they ask for suggestions. I'm not asking for a man to make suggestions to me ... yikes. Quite the opposite, my dude.
so can you
Well maybe I have. What's so comfortable about a bikini that shows almost all your body anyways?
Wow. It says a lot about you that you think I'm a man cause I don't think hijab is oppressive and cause I know covering the head and bodyis in the Quran.
Yes! I and many hijabi women do wear burkini at the beach. Or do you prefer when French police tear it off?