The Disturbing Reality of Youtuber Nutrition Science
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- Опубліковано 12 тра 2024
- My thoughts on "The Disturbing Reality Of Ultra-Processed Food" by Kiana Docherty. Pie is pie, basically.
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Kiana's video
• The Disturbing Reality...
You may be eating predigested food. Here’s why
www.cnn.com/2024/02/01/health...
Obesity consequences
www.hsph.harvard.edu/obesity-...
American weight gain
www.slowboring.com/p/american...
cepr.org/voxeu/columns/evolut...
Interview with Dr. Stephen Guyenet
thepreventivemedicinepodcast....
Lancet ultra-processed food study
www.thelancet.com/journals/la...
Lemonade study lol
www.cell.com/cell-metabolism/...
Ultra-Processed Umbrella Review
www.bmj.com/content/384/bmj-2...
gidmk.substack.com/p/should-y...
r/ultraprocessedfood
/ are_canned_beans_consi...
/ fried_chicken
Voices for Vaccines
www.voicesforvaccines.org/don...
Videos to watch next
• Protein Discourse is G...
• Et Tu, Abbey? (Analyzi...
• What Happens When a Me...
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0:00 Intro
0:44 Processed Foods ARE Bad
1:52 "Predigested"
4:09 Pie is Pie
6:24 Weight Gain in America
8:18 Snacking & Convenience Foods
9:46 Bread is Bad?
12:57 Lemonade vs Lettuce
16:02 "Science"
17:49 How is This Helpful?
19:50 Anti-Vax
20:32 Run Far Away
21:29 Outro
#kianadocherty #processedfoods #weightloss
![Freelee, This is Gross [Re: Rawvana (Yovana's) meaty "Fertility" Diet Review]](/img/n.gif)
Me watching the video about Abbey: 😏👏🤘
Me watching the video about me: 😲😒🤨🧐
(Also - I do agree with you that I shouldn’t have said “IS” leading to all of these issues vs 'is associated with'. But we all make mistakes lol)
I'm a huge fan of your channel and I gotta say I have so much respect for the fact you can take criticism we need more youtubers like you ❤
Nice to see you are taking constructive critism well! I always like your videos !
Love Kiana❤❤❤❤
I watch your channel as well, i really enjoy you both and it's nice that you seem able to take things into mind and actually watch the video! better next time! we all learn from mistakes
you are an icon for watching this video, I love your videos and will continue to support you!!
As a watcher of both you and Kiana, I rewatched her video and I wanted to point out a few things I think you misrepresented about her video: 1. She clearly explains what she means by "predigested" 2. She makes a clear distinction between processed and ultra processed food. 3. She uses lot's of qualifying words such as "may be" or "could be" even in the first few minutes. At the end of the day, she's giving people something to think about in terms of reducing the amount of ultra processed food they eat which lets face it, is a major issue in our western diet, so what's so terrible about that?
Finally someone said it!
Lots comments here are completely missing the point, mocking Kiana by saying tofu and soaked beans are also predigested. No, they’re literally not. Processed =/= predigested.
Just because everyone misunderstood, doesn’t mean Kiana is wrong or her take is bad.
All this hate isn’t justified, Kiana is alright.
Agreed
👏👏👏
Agreed.
She also refuted a scientific study and overruled the authority of the researchers based on how funny a picture looked to her.
She compared homemade chips to ultra proccesed bread. Not chips to chips or bread to bread.
She said it is the same to bake a potato and fry it with oil. No. One is minimally processed food. The other one is processed w culinary ingredients.
This whole critisism is a joke.
She has no idea about what is the system she don't like.
If you eat ultra processed foods all the time you feel pretty bad, that's just a fact
And hungry. You can eat as much as you can, but after an hour it feels like you haven't eating much. And the more you eat you just carve for more and more. Even that brown beadlike thing. I could eat 6 slices for sandwiches in every hour. while i couldn't eat more than 2 slices of (real) apple pie per a day.
The brainwashing of social media is so deep folks are suprised to learn that junkfood is junk food...
Yes if you eat them all the time. But they shouldn’t be demonized.
I don't know what kind of apple pie people are making, but for me the one from the store is crazy sweet. Homemade pie is definitely more nutritious and has barely any added sugar, so I absolutely don't agree that it's comparable.
right and not everything is macros. 10g of fat could mean a bunch of different things. is it trans fat? saturated fat? are there food dyes? like the 1:1 comparison of macros didn’t make sense to me
@@torat2970Same with the homemade potato chips. Frying does not necessarily mean deep drying, and not all oils are the same either.
This video seems to have just as many inaccuracies as the video it is criticizing.
To me, “ultra-processed” is a newer term for “junk food”.
@@wintersprite Aren't you aware? There's only one way to make chips and pie at home. Drowning in oil and 900grams of sugar.
@@winterspriteyeah i think both had inaccuracies. maybe they should collab and make an updated video lmao
and ultra processed to me is fine in moderation, but it seems that most people don’t know what moderation is (evidence being the obesity epidemic)
So I didn't bother to rewatch Kiana's video but I do remember watching it and then ending up buying a copy of Chris van Tulleken's book "Ultra-Processed People" about the drawbacks of ultra-processed food. I highly suggest reading it and trying to debunk his claims instead of going after Kiana's video - to me it seems like she just tried to do some sort of "teaser" for this important and complex issue.
My biggest problem with her video is her suggesting it's not your fault you're fat and unhealthy because UPF made you fat. I worked at Mcd's for 7-8 years and ate their food almost every day for my break and never became overweight and have never been unhealthy in the 20 plus years since then. I just didn't overeat throughout the day. Most of what food companies are doing with food go towards food taste and longevity. The latter saves money for low income consumers as they do not have to throw away prematurely expired food. In fact I am old enough to remember a time when we thought food would come in pill form and we weren't freaked out by the idea but intrigued😂
@@rothock I don't remember her making this suggestion. However, I would love for more people to become aware of the capability that ultra-processed food has to (intentionally or not) "hijack" their appetites and thus having the potential to make them fat without them realizing what's going on. Like I mentioned, I went on to read "Ultra-Processed People" after watching her video and it examines the topic from various perspectives in depth.
As an Australian, her video on the most obese country in the world was absolutely vital. I do not hesitate to tell people here how our meat consumption is effecting the lives of others overseas. Perhaps that video was predigested information, too, but either way it hooked me in, I watched it and I got value out of it and now I deeply care about something I previously didn't even know about.
You are blaming meat for the problems caused by sugar, carbs, processed foods, and industrially produced toxic seed oils plus alcohol.
I tend to prefer the term "hyper-palatable food" because it cuts more closely to the actual issue.
I usually like these videos and the nuance is important, but I feel like you were a little too nitpicky on this one. Clearly the point was that some processing of food has an effect of how satiating it is, based on specific physiological responses. Hunger hormones and the brain is more than just macros.
2:45: pan-frying broccoli with just olive oil and salt: This is actually one of my favorite things to eat as part of my lunch!!!
Hell yeah 🥦🎉
You have to admit it's pretty funny that she's demonizing predigested food while basing her video on predigested information.
Looooool bless
😂 I love both these creators but this is funny
Oh damn
Studies are emerging that show ultraprocessed food leads to weight gain. This is compared to eating the exact same number of calories of whole foods, which are also matched for macros and micros.
Ultraprocessed food is also correlated with increased hunger, so a greater drive to overeat on top of that. Ultraprocessed food is also correlated with depression.
It’s probably very complex, but gut flora likely has a lot to do with it. The wolf you feed, sort of thing.
No, there is not a single study ever conducted where anyone has gained more fat from processed foods vs. someone eating the exact same net calories from whole foods. This has never happened in recorded human history.
where is the study?
Yeah, I am a fan of Kiana but this video had me confused. Like it's trying to create fear of "predigested food" when to me that doesn't sound as bad as she is making it out to be. Yes, don't eat all these heavily processed foods often, but it being "predigested" doesn't make it worse than other foods.
Her qualifications: “I read a lot.” She lists no experience or degrees other than she’s an avid reader. I’m honestly surprised she has 500k subscribers, but then again, when you say things with confidence people are less likely to question what’s being said.
* I’m not saying anything negative about you liking her, these are just my impressions from her channel and her clear lack of expertise and professional qualifications.
@@PolymathPalettewhat’s unnatural vegans qualifications to speak on this? Seriously, not saying she’s right, but needing a degree or specific qualifications to speak knowledgeably on a subject is a little silly. It can lend credibility, but it doesn’t actually strengthen their argument one way or the other.
@@ponny2948 She often tells us she isn't qualified, but points us to the information in studies by qualified people, with links for us to look at.
@@ponny2948it's more that that's on top of the logical leaps she makes.
unnaturalvegan doesn't do that often
@@ponny2948 Also, unnatural vegan doesn't really demonize any types of food, but rather preaches about moderation/working out what's good for you.
As someone who used to watch Kiana, i noticed the pattern of bait/overexaggeration in her videos. She goes through huge leaps without any sort of studies/stats to back it up sometimes, and makes her conclusion of the video based off of that.
Not to mention, she's supposed to be an "objective" person who "studies" nutrition and discusses it, but randomly made a video about AH/JD and then started talking about body language (something that is literally scientifically debunked and not within the realm of what she talked about before). It became apparent extremely fast that she's not making these videos as a way to discuss nutrition and health in good faith, but rather just make bait-y videos that are overdramatized for money. Which is ironic because she constantly criticizes corporations for not caring about people, but solely about the money.
F.e. experts always recommend getting vitamins and minerals from food sources instead of vitamin pills. Also, foods that contain phytonutrients such as antioxidants have been shown to be beneficial for health. Yet extracted antioxidants have been found to have no benefit or have even been shown to have detrimental effect. Nutrition as a science is new and there's tons experts don't yet know. Every real health experts suggests to avoid processed especially ultra processed foods. You can't just use cronometer as a source to show there's no difference. Foods are made up on such a large variety of different compounds that interact with each other that to look at macro and micro nutrients is only a small part of it
PS I don't think original video said potato chips or apple pie is healthy. Just that ultraprocess them and it's even worse.
PPS canned beans is probably fine and healthy although lately people have been starting to pay attention to chemicals such as bpa, microplastics etc and their negative effects on health.
This was my first thought. Like 10g of fat can mean wildly different things
I wonder if she would think a vegan diet is healthier than a omnivore one as long as you’re getting all your nutrient needs met in each one? If so, why
Even vitamin pills have the recommendation to take them with food, because the uptake requires the chewing for releasing enzymes and the stomach and intestines to work a bit.
Finally someone. Yes you should compare apple(pie) to ultraprocessed apple. Not home made deep fried chips to multi seed brown "bread". Nor pringles to the said brown "bread".
I just recently learned I'm sensitive to emulsifiers, I always had wacky poops, so I figured that's what life was. But s few years ago, I learned I had food sensitives. Just a few weeks ago, I figured out emulsifiers was a big factor. Now my intestinal issues are much better. I'm 40, so that sucks it took so long. Who knows how much damage I've done to my body because of these things.
Overall I agree with most of the points you made, but I feel like I have to defend the Kevin Hall study on the effect of food processing on calorie intake. The aim of the study was to investigate the effect of food processing (and only food processing) on intake. The difference in the meals looks funny because it’s not necessarily reflective of how a real world meal would be put together, but that’s because the aim of the study was to vary the extent of food processing while controlling for the density & total amount of energy, macronutrients, and fiber. If I remember correctly, they even tried to equate the palatability of the foods, as measured by subjective participant ratings. Of course the sample size was small, as the trial involved strictly controlling and measuring people’s food intake over a period of weeks. I think the real takeaway from the study is that food processing can lead to overeating by simply making food physically easier/faster to consume, regardless of nutrient content and even how tasty it is, and that this effect is significant enough to amount to hundreds of calories per day.
A good point! We can't imagine sitting down and eating some of those unprocessed meals in one sitting, but totally easy to imagine eating the processed ones. The visuals were really shocking in pointing out how much extra food we are eating regularly by relying on convenience foods.
Are we pretending we have no idea what people are talking about when referring to Processed foods? We're usually referring to the types of foods that many scientists are deeply concerned with. The ones with additives, hormone dysruptors, and 200% of your daily value of sugar. Again, we're obviously not talking about boiling pasta or beans. I'm genuinely confused by this video because we have systematic reviews and meta analyses on this subject. There's a strong link between ultra processed foods and poor physical and mental health.
💯
Right. Ultra processed is pretty much meaning junk food.
Exactly
We're not "pretending to have no idea", we're "asking for a solid definition" instead of demonizing foods based on vibes.
@@TasteOfButterflies "Ultra-processed foods (UPFs) are industrially formulated products made with ingredients and additives not typically used in culinary preparations, designed for high palatability and convenience. They differ from processed foods, which might be less altered from their original form and contain fewer artificial additives. UPFs often contain high levels of sugar, fat, and salt, with additives for color, flavor, or preservation, whereas processed foods might simply be canned, dried, or frozen natural foods with minimal additives. (Wikipedia)."
took me 3 seconds. Most people seem to understand the context without having to search anything. She's talking about UPFs, not canned beans.
I watched Kiana’s video and got increasingly irritated by her misuse/lack of understanding of the term “pre-digested foods.” Sourdough bread, yogurt, kimchi, curtido, cheese, etc. are essentially pre-digested foods via the benefit of the fermentation and culturing process. Fermenting foods makes them more digestible, increases bio-availability of nutrients, supplies the best source of pre & probiotics AND prolongs shelf life. I’m gonna go have a slice of homemade sourdough with cultured cottage cheese and fermented jalapeños and calm down.
Yes, however at least Fermented is typically even better for u. Extremely processed is worse for u.
Exactly, that's what I think of when I hear "predigested". That means fermented or digested by some form of a microorganism before we digest it. That's good. Why are they taking this word and trying to make it equal to ultra-processed? We already have a word for it.
@@maiaru If you watched the original video you would know that's not what she was talking about at all. She's not talking about things that are "fermented or digested by some form of a microorganism". She's talking about foods being broken down via industrialized processes, not just adding a culture. Think about ADM breaking corn down into a dozen or so component parts and those parts being added into your breakfast cereal.
If you take the time to watch the original video she's not talking about cultured or pickled foods when she's talking about pre-digested foods. She's talking about ingredients that are created by through industrial processing and can't be made any other way. You're not wrong in the way you use the term "pre-digested" but it's not the same way she uses the term.
@@michaeldonnan6767True, high processed foods gives less gut bacteria. People who eat a large part of ultra processed foods have less gut bacteria, less uptake of whatever micronutrient that might have been added and higher frequency of mental issues. Fermented veggies would still require enzymes and the stomach and intestines to work a bit with it and thus get more uptake of micronutrients.
Its bizarre to hear someone say that processed food is "nutrient devoid" when the problem with it is that it's nutrient dense. Fats, and carbs are nutrients too, and processed foods have A LOT of them. I think it makes more sense to say they are devoid of micro nutrients, bc processing foods removes or destroys many vitamins, minerals and other components like polyphenols.
I get what your saying, but when talking about nutrient deficiencies it's usually shorthand for micro nutrients. All foods are made up of fats, carbs, and protein. Things could be low calorie, low fat, high carb, etc., but if it's food it is made up of some significant amount of macro nutrients. As long as you are eating enough calories it is highly unlikely you would have a macro nutrient deficiency.
You are confusing nutrient dense and energy dense. Ultraprocessed foods are often energy dense as they contain high amounts of fat and sugar (high in calories) but low in (micro) nutrients.
@@alinebonifazzi3233 yeah, you are right. I looked up the definitions and I am referring more to calorie dense, but I still think it's good practice to not speak as if carbs and fats aren't nutrients. I just think Unnatural Vegan could have said things more precisely. I've seen layman get very confused when nutrition isn't spoken about precisely, to the point where it leads them to believe the wrong thing
By that logic a table spoon of oil is nutritional. No. It has to be full of micros to qualified. Language dosen't work so rigorously
One of the few Kiana's videos I actively disliked, you did a great job highlighting lack of evidence and goofy fearmongering.
A lot of her videos are like that though...
@@reiverdaemon Exactly, i don't understand people that are like "omg she really messed up with this one" like.... that is literally what she does in all of her videos. She constantly over dramatizes certain aspects or literally comes up with conclusions from nowhere.
I watch both of you, and in this case, even though there were some valid critiques, you didn't touch on most of them, and was instead critical about parts that IMO (as someone with a master's degree in biotechnology and food science) should bot need to be picked apart, like "what is pre-digested" - it makes sense to me what that is, not sure what to wonder about here.
Also, claiming that thr same macros = same nutritional value is just insane - you should know better 🙄
Ultrqprocessed food are actually NOT necessarily "super delicious", but they DO affect our brain chemistry to eat them again: easy to get, easy to digest, blood sugar goes up fast.
If ypu think emulsifyers, stabilizers and preservatives aren't anything to be concerned about, you better read up on that...😒
Also, you use "processed" and "ultra processed" almost interchangeably, which they are not (although there is a grey zone).
Example of a valid critique:
- a home-made apple pie can also now be ultraprocessed, as so many of the ingredients people use are not "raw materials", but already ultraprocessed
👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
Perfectly said
Exactly this. I would never take nutrition advice from this youtuber at all. Claming the same macros for a McDonalds pie and homemade PIE is just terrible.
The Hall study did not control portion sizes. Participants ate as much as they wanted. They just wanted less of the whole foods. The photos are just examples of the kinds of foods that were available, not actual servings.
That's the point. They matched for everything but calorie density (of the actual food, not of the food + lemonade combined lol), and it turned out, unsurprisingly, that higher calorie density leads to more weight gain and it's questionable whether processing has anything to do with it at all.
@@TasteOfButterflies Perhaps unsurprising, but not previously demonstrated in a controlled study.
This is a very important point, that I think wasn't made explicit in either video. From the Hass study abstract: "Meals were designed to be matched for _presented_ calories, energy density, macronutrients, sugar, sodium, and fiber." I emphasized "presented" because I think one could be left with the impression the total intake was matched. Unsurprisingly people ate more hyper-palatable calorie-dense foods. (edited for italics)
So glad you responded to this. I quite liked Kiana's channel when she used to talk about binge eating and the problems with how we perceive and treat those with disordered eating. But recently she's been very sensational with her content and has been pushing her own self help course, which is just a shame.
Yeah! I loved some of her older content. The predigested food video completely lost me.
@@thekatsup Aye, I unsubscribed half way through.
Yes!!! She totally lost me
Glad there are other members of her former fanbase who feel this way. She's had a few videos in the last year or so that don't pass the smell test, but I stayed subbed because I enjoyed her commentary on weight loss reality shows. When this UPF video popped up I just thought to myself "Yeesh, I don't think I want to watch this. Wait, why am I even subbed anymore?" and cleaned house. Ironic that I still wind up seeing it when Swayze makes this response video.
What I Learned Syndrome claiming another victim?
I hate the lack of basic chemical knowledge either. Hydrolysis is a common reaction that happens *everywhere*. Not just the stomach. Your body does hydrolysis outside of digestion. This is why comparing something to a hyper specific action does more harm. Hydrolysis, to be plainly simply, is just... a reaction involving water.
I usually enjoy Kiana's content a lot but this video didn't feel like her usual standard at all!
Isn’t blending fruit in a blender to make a smoothie a way of predigesting?
This would be considered a process food, whilst she is talking about ultra processed food! I don’t think many people out there are demonizing processed foods, because you are exactly right. Any cooked veggie is technically a processed food :)
Yes! We would think that any form of cooking/processing is predigesting... chewing your food would also count as predigesting.
There are so many valid reasons to avoid eating UPFs in large quantities - the "pre-digestion" is such a weird argument!
it absolutely is. pretty much anything that's made notably a lot easier through processing can be labelled "predigested".
@@KyleePicc oh, but a home-made pressed orange-juice is far worse (except if you have just that specific vitamin C deficiency) than any wholegrain "ultraprocessed" bread. By a mile.
im sorry but are really comparing Pringles to homemade chips/fries? They are not the same!
Same with the MacDonalds pie.. did you ever see a MacDonalds burger after a year? Pretty much still the same looking and you wanna convince us that these ultra processed food are not that bad?
Please elaborate why they are not the same
She's claiming both are horrible. Which TBH, it's true. The variation among many "UPF" in terms of nutritional value is far greater than the variation between many processed and UPFs, which makes the distinction pretty useless.
Both videos totally missed the mark. The reason ultra processed food is such a big issue is it’s everywhere, even in things we thought were healthy. Like Corn tortillas, fruit yogurt, or wheat bread. They are then driving overconsumption.
Also, one of the main reasons that people are looking into UltraProcessed foods is the book by Chris Van Tulleken “Ultra Processed People” and neither video mentions it. In that book he explains why the gums are so bad for you. They can cause you to have a leaky gut by stripping the mucus lining of your colon. Also brought up by Tim Specter on Zoe science and nutrition.
Also the tone of this particular video was so dang pretentious. I mean I watch lots of your videos and this one in particular 😬.
Not really. The reason they're bad is that many of them (not all) are low in micronutrinients, ultrapalatable and not filling. Which is basically what UV claims. The study itself shows that the "Weight changes were highly correlated with energy intake". IDK if you've had some the the "wholegrain UP-bread" that Kiana shows in her video, but I can assure you that after having 3 slices I'm unable to take anymore. Just as if I drink non-sweetened soy milk: it's not tasty enough for me to want more than a glass (and that doesn't happen to me with normal milk for example).
I recommend the multi-part blog post "Fiber optics" by Anthony Warner on his "The Angry Chef" blog. It brings an interesting perspective on nutritional fiber, processed foods, and how processed food can be improved with the goal of improving public health. (His posts about fat and plant-based proteins are interesting too).
I think there may be a overzealous obsession with fibre. Yes fibre is good, but I don’t think every single piece of food we ingest needs to be super high in fibre. Lower fibre foods can easily be paired with higher fibre food.
@@nicolesapphire3696 not every bit of food has to be rich in fiber, sure. But given that the vast majority of people don't reach even the modest goals set by nutrition guidelines, I don't think we're anywhere near the point of "overzealous obsession". It's possible to get that impression, because when you read a lot of nutrition blogs you hear about fiber a lot, but out in the real world, it's still a rather neglected nutrient.
@@nicolesapphire3696 I struggle to get the suggested amount even when I put in effort to do so. No way the average American is getting it on a daily.
Yes, homemade and stor bought foods can be similar in macro nutrients but therr have been many studies showing how a lot of the chemicals they use to preserve snd emulsify, etc... are very damaging for our microbiome, damage the liver and a host of other effects on the body. Also, the pesticides they use are catastrophic to our systems.
I enjoy Kianas content, and I just took this video as her reporting on that one specific article.
I read a lot of research while getting my bachelors so I don’t take a lot of things I watch/read online at face value.
I do feel like Kiana’s history with her relationship with food gives her insight on what worked for her to make a change in her eating habits and as far as I know she’s never claimed to be a food science, diet, or any of the expert.
i don't think being able to eat healthy is a recent phenomenon. in recent history it's only been availabel to rich people but it's still an option. and really in some places ancient people seemed to actually have a fairly healthy diet. ancient romans ate pulses and grains and fruits and cheese and such, even poor people. a lot of fruits and veggies weren't considered luxuries (the ones that were native to your area would not be a luxury, for example) so people's diets would actually be quite high in fruit and veg. i think the "traditional diets are unhealthy" thing is kind of a myth that people have made up to feel like we're in some way superior to our ancestors but even they had figured out that you need to eat a variety of foods to actually be healthy.
i'm indian and indian food gets a lot of flack from pretty much everyone for being unhealthy but i've found that it's actually quite healthy, if somewhat lacking in protein but this too can be fixed with portion sizes and in the modern day, supplements. pretty much the entire staple diet of north indians (im from the north so) is some type of pulses or lentils or beans with a bunch of vegetables plus some more vegetables, plus some type of bread or rice. traditionally it's considered a healthy practice to eat a bunch of nuts and dried fruits every morning (people like soaking these in water and then drinking the water which i find tastes quite gross). it's literally a traditional practice to eat more nuts and dried fruits in the winter. indian sweets can be extremely sweet and heavy in sugar and such but so are cakes and so on. indians don't eat these with every meal or every day any more than foreigners eat a chocolate cake with every meal but we still get shit for our diet being somehow fundamentally unhealthy.
Which is wild because Indian food is so delicious! 😋 Idk how anyone could hate anything cooked in curry! 🙃
We all know white flour isn’t healthy. But maltodextrin and modified starch? Is broken down way faster, and not registered the same as something that at least resembles food. Doesn’t have nutrients. And also has so many industrial processes to make it that there are harmful byproducts. Unlike foods that have phytonutrients and natural compounds that can’t be identically replicated.
It’s irresponsible to say “we have no idea what the effect of hyper processed foods and industrial chemicals are, so oh well. It’s probably fine. 🤷♀️”
And in the same breath “Gee I really wonder why these diseases have gone 10x higher in the past 30 years.🤔”
Studies are supposed to reflect real life outcomes. You want a study? Study the American population that eats 50% UPFs, even including those with average BMI.
Do you really think we could study the 100s of additives and contaminants, combined together, daily for multiple years? Again, the USA population.
Something doesn’t magically become true because it’s confirmed on paper.
Disease rates and obesity rates skyrocketing so much in the past 30 years has something to do not only with processed food, but ultra-processed food. Saying it doesn’t is just denial. We aren’t eating food anymore. We’re eating powdered calories.
Or like that bowel cancer has risen 50% in people born after 1998, i wonder why this is...
@@11235Aodh all of the autoimmune, chronic diseases, cancers, genetic diseases… genes don’t change that fast. You can’t say “sorry, we don’t know what causes half of the most common diseases” and then say “oh well I’m sure these man made chemicals from only the past 30 years are totally fine. We don’t have evidence otherwise!”
Why would you want to wait for the evidence to confirm, in like 20 years? Why risk it?
As far as I’m aware, learning from my anthropology professor, “predigested” aka cooked food is the one of the reasons we were able to develop the brains we have. So yay to predigested foods 🤭
I used to follow her and literally unsubbed from her channel after watching that video. It's great that you are setting things straight.
😂 what a moron
This almost beats the video I saw about the “science backed” “heat-cool-reheat method” for rice, other starches and the effect on glucose and blood sugar. Ummmm I’ve been using the “heat-cool-reheat” method my whole life ITS CALLED LEFTOVERS.
You're saying exactly what I was thinking when watching her video. I usually enjoy her content but this video was just full of buzz words that sound impressive to people that don't know much about food science or processing (but don't actually mean anything).
I am surprised to hear that you got the same micronutrients for both mcdonald's pie and homemade one. I agree - both are energy dense and we shouldn't be eating them often. But homemade stuff usually is made from higher quality, more nutritionally dense ingredients, e.g., it is rare to see shortening, emulsifiers or citric acid in home cooking. In processed foods it is common to see nutritionally dense ingredients such as eggs beings replaced with nutrient devoid emulsifiers, complex sources of savory flavor are often replaced by glutamate powder, lelmon juice - with citric acid. At home you can even make extra nutritious pies by trying to add wholegrain or alternative flours, less sugar or more complex sources of sweetness like bananas.
Agreed. There are ways to make homemade pies healthier. Swapping white flour for whole wheat, almond flour, etc. Using allulose or monkfruit sweetener, or honey or maple syrup rather than high fructose corn syrup, etc.
Even with the homemade potato chips, frying in olive oil would be different than frying in canola oil.
Sorry, but… every time you squeeze lemon juice in your salad/soup whatever, you’re using citric acid. Glutamate occurs naturally in a lot of things, from soy sauce to tomatoes. If you add a spoonful of tomato paste to your sauce, guess what? You’re adding glutamate. And different proteins act as emulsifiers in things like custard, so… people actually do use all of these in home cooking, even if they don’t know.
Not to mention there’s absolutely nothing wrong with emulsifiers, glutamate or citric acid. Shortening is different, but a lot of people use it from time to time, it won’t kill you.
@@leeseiberg2408 I think you misunderstood my comment. I have nothing against citric acid or glutamate. I am just saying that a squeeze of lemon juice or a spoon of tomato sauce has way more nutrients than bare citric acid or glutamate powder. Sure, one can make a healthy meal and sprinkle some extra glutamate on it. But in store you can easily find stuff like poptarts that contain nothing but some refined flour and sugar and no other ingredients with any nutritional value.
The satisfaction you receive from eating a McDonald's pie is not the same as eating a homemade pie. There's no proof to give because it's who I am, so just an opinion. A McDonald's "pie" tastes like slop and a homemade pie actually does taste like "food" no matter how bad I want pie, I'm not gonna get McDonald's "pie"
because I'd be left wanting pie... lol
Making a pie does not have to be super labour intensive and if you can spend hours scrolling on your phone, You've got time to make a pie. If you don't want to make a pie, go to a local bakery, not McDonald's.
Nah mcdonalds pies honestly taste amazing. They have the formula down. It's trash for you and having culinary skills is the way to go, yes, but that ish tastes GOOD imo
@@e_i_e_i_bro I mean that's cool that it tastes good for you but for me it doesn't do it for me. lol
i agree. the apple pies from mcdonald’s don’t scratch that “i want pie” itch and i end up still wanting pie after eating it. i’ll just go to a local bakery if i want some pie lmao
I think that "hyper palatable" is probably more important than "ultra processed." Hyper-palatability is defined as two of: high salt, high sugar, high fat. There's some evidence that of the pairings high salt + high fat is the worst. I have experimented on myself by comparing my response to strawberry twizzlers vs. JuJube candies. They are both basically 1/2 sugar and 1/2 modified starch. But the Twizzlers are laced with sodium, and I have a great deal of trouble stopping eating them. JuJubes no problem. I still eat quite a few in a sitting, but then I feel full & stop. Similarly, I can eat a protein bar and not want another; a candy bar not so much.
I'm really glad you decided to address the latest nutritional bogeyman. I feel very pessimistic about the anti-UPF craze, because I have no doubt it will be used to demonize perfectly decent meat and milk alternatives, make people shun nutrient-fortified foods (soy milk with B12, calcium, iodine and homogenizing agent added to it is more "processed" than just plain soy and water, right?), do nothing to turn people away from Pringles and chocolate bars (because it's not like anyone thought they were healthy; people eat them because they crave them), and make people who rely on convenience foods feel like shit.
Predigested food immediately made me think of how birds and some mammals regurgitate food for their offspring and it's so CUTE
Thank you! So many of her videos jump to conclusions or make wild leaps in logic and people just eat it up!
14:27 unless I missed a point, the size of the meals is completely irrelevant to the study, because calorie intake was controlled for.
Shocking news about processed food: it's processed
Yeah I watched some of this video and saw right through it. It was just bizarre fear-mongering. Using the term “pre-digested” purposely sounds revolting (and is also misleading). I hope one day we will be able to look back at a period of the internet where people would dramatise reality for the sake of their own monetary gain.
And to add - anything fermented is considered (quite literally) predigested... We don't fear monger kimchi and yogurt 🤔
@BaristaWithADog bc fermented is actually good for you, and heavily processed is bad for you.
The processed foods/whole foods dichotomy I think is a pretty useful heuristic for the most part, but yeah the absolute OBSESSION with believing that everything that undergoes processing and contains some preservative or emulsifier is inherently bad is missing the forest for the trees: if I chose to eat white bread (processed) until I was full or peanuts (whole food) until I was full every day without paying attention to calories, I guarantee I'd gain more weight and have worse health outcomes from the peanuts (but certainly a lot more fun)
It's a very useful heuristic! Most processed foods aren't protein powder lol. The problem is, I think, adding this additional "ultra-processed" category. Like Kiana says, homemade apple pie is only a level 3 processed food, implying that it's somehow healthier than a level 4 McDonald's or Hostess pie.
The white bread would raise your blood sugar more than the peanuts though.
@@UnnaturalVeganA homemade apple pie can be made in different ways. You can make a crust with whole wheat flour or almond flour, etc., substitute honey, maple syrup, monk fruit sweetener, etc. for the high fructose corn syrup…so yes, homemade can be made healthier.
@@wintersprite it can be, but most people don’t do that. In fact, they do quite the opposite. A lot of homemade deserts are full of sugar, butter or lard. Also why waste almond flour on pie crust when it’s only good in macarons tbh.
@@leeseiberg2408 Almond flour is good in more than just macarons. Some people are low carb and others are gluten free so cannot use regular flour. And I don’t know about most people. Many do make pies in alternative ways. Many people also don’t make pies at all. Also, even regular sugar would be better than high fructose corn sugar.
Thank you so much for all the time you put into your videos! There's so much sensationalist nutrition info available online and it's exhausting trying to wade through all of it. I'd love to see you do a video on Complement Essentials supplements. I've seen a ton of vegan influencers pushing them and they sound great on paper, but I haven't been able to find any actual non-biased reviews.
I do agree that not all processed foods are created equally. There's a big difference between plant milks and Gushers.
I think the point of the pictures is that the minimally processed food requires a laughably large volume in order to be nutritionally equivalent to the UP food. If you sit and think about the time to consume those meal, the minimally processed food will take much longer to consume and give more time, presumably, for the body to cue satiety versus the UP food that can be easily and quickly consumed. It puts into perspective how deceptively small amounts of huge calories of UP food can be.
I'm so happy you made a video about her! I was so confused by her stance...
Something people miss about ye olden days is that life forced people to be more active. There are a ton of chores that are just easier now. People weren't eating drastically better if you look at the amounts of added sugar and saturated fats or how much fiber they got.
Thank you so much. I remember watching Kiana's video and seeing so many red flags and thinking I hope this doesn't go uncontested.
I watched her video and I was wondering if it was just me when it sounded like just bunch of... words, without any real information. Especially the predigested food part, the whole time I was wondering the same thing, am I going to learn what exactly is wrong with it?
I felt that this video wasn’t up to Kiana’s usual standard as I was watching it. Appreciate your work on this.
Its funny because i watched the video you are critiquing this week also, and it hqd a big impact on me. Until i thought about it, and realize that healthy bodybuilders eat tons of protein shakes and such. Very good analysis. Theres definitely some ultra processed which are healthier than others.
Pie is not a pie. Huge difference between buying one and making one
Thanks for talking about what a person can consider when choosing foods at the grocery store. I haven't really thought about it from this point of view - the contents of fiber, water and the volume it gives to a meal. This is a really good equation for making healthier choices!
Thanks for roasting this one. Kiana is getting a bit weird lately…she’s offering a behaviour course meanwhile I don’t think she has any meaningful credentials to do so. She’s just an enthusiast.
When she announced this course was when I unfollowed. I generally enjoyed her content. But for someone who used to remind people to stay in their lane she sure isn’t… it’s one thing to discuss your own success with behavioral change techniques but to teach people with no adequate credentials is a completely different one.
@@erinmeadows14 God forbid if a creator is trying to earn some extra money for financial stability, offering you an optional product they put a lot of work into, which you are free to ignore if you aren’t interested.
Making videos about these topics is fine, but putting some of it behind a paywall is not and somehow “not staying in her lane”?
She’s more than qualified to sell a book/course that talks about her own perspective and experience and her own personal tips on how to stick with habits - it’s literally no different than any self-help book you can buy at a bookshop. Most self-help book authors don’t have special credentials either, they’re just writing about their own experience, offering their perspective on the world. She never claimed or presented it as a medical guide or substitute for therapy in people with mental disorders and addictions, in which case I would agree, she wouldn’t be qualified to write such a book, as it could actually harm people.
I’m not interested in her course either, but I don’t see the need to judge her so harshly.
Thanks for doing this. Kiana has a way of diluting facts with sensationalism. After my own digging, I find a lot of her “evidence based” videos are more anecdote and cherry-picked facts based. It appears a lot of her “research” has been conducted with severe confirmation bias. There’s a lot of insinuation of causality when there are a lot of confounders & even reverse causality at play.
Is she talking about how food u chew longer helps u eat less because gives chance for your body to register fullness? If so I think she is misusing the data .
This is the most logical explanation of processed food I've seen in a long time. Glad, you looked at the supplemental material on that lemonade study, that makes the results make a lot more sense. Also, of note the fiber amounts you showed were for the daily meals not including snacks (21.3 ultra-processed and 20.7 unprocessed). The total fiber including daily meals and snacks end up being 18.7 in ultra-processed and 21.4 in the unprocessed diet.
Also the difference in the proportion of insoluble fiber was huge 16% in the ultra-processed vs 77% in the unprocessed diet which I feel like explains the obvious visual difference in the foods and probably a lot of the weight loss benefit too.
Also unclear since the participants were eating ad-libitum, how much of the fiber parts of the meal were they actually eating vs left uneaten? The study reports carbohydrate, protein and total energy intake but not fiber intake. I assume since there were differences in energy intake between the groups, there were probably differences in fiber intake too but that was not discussed.
never thought I’d see this video.. I like you and Kiana, but you make a lot of good points here Swayze!
What you said about homemade junk food vs. store bought reminds me of something Michael Pollan said: You can have junk food (I think the example he used was cheeseburgers and frenchie fries) as often as you want…as long as you make them from scratch at home.
I laughed at those meal study photos. Yeah, if I ate a bushel of salad, I'd probably be full yet lose weight. What a mystery?
I happened to listen to this video and notice how both unnatural vegan and Kiana sounded very similar to each other. It was only the intonation, inflection and tone changes in unnatural vegan during her oration style that made her sound different. I assume they were brought up in the same part of the world (I would pick somewhere in Canada)
As a Canadian I personally don’t think unnatural vegan sounds Canadian at all. She has also said she’s from the Midwest
I don't think they sound similar at all...?
There really is something to the homemade vs McDonald’s pie thing though. I am a baker and one of the comments I get over and over is that my customers are satiated after one of my brownies or one piece of my pies when they would have eaten a box of brownies or half of a pie from the grocery store. Maybe worth looking into more but I find the same effect is true for me as well. There’s something in the scratch versions that the processed versions are missing or maybe vice versa I dunno 🤷🏼♀️
ugh ur content has been so good for years we appreciate you
I thought I was the only one who noticed this. Part of this stuff is rooted in the fact that she used to struggle with her weight too. It's a Dave Ramsey situation.
But yes, we consume a lot of "pre-digested" food, which isn't necessarily bad for us. Whey protein being one of them.
I think this video is interesting. But I’m hearing the same problem in both videos. From what I’ve seen of ultra processing this video is unrepresenting and overly simplifying the limited science we actually know. And it is limited. Macro assessment is entirely the wrong bit of nutritional data to be looking at in UPFs, that is very clear. Some UPFs can be awesome and natural foods can be awful using macros. That’s one of the big arguments against the traffic light system. But we can’t label UPFs because what a UPF actually is is not yet determined!
I can read a lot of fast food junkies in the comments. No wonder we are getting fatter.
One of your best videos so far to me. Hit the nail right on its head!
thanks for covering this video!
There is a TON of research about ultra-processed foods! Sorry but you are super wrong about this. Kiana didn't get everything right but you are Way WAY off.
💯
Was taking a sip of my drink when it panned to the “fuck ton of lemonade” and almost choked 😂
Yeah I've really enjoyed a lot of her videos but a few have given me pause and this one really made me question whether I valued her input 😅😬
Thank you for this!!
Hi, new here! What are your qualifications regarding diet/nutrition? Thanks!
10:26 It's not just “zero fat,” but “zero dairy fat,” which is primarily (atherogenic) saturated fat. Would you rather give your kids whole-milk yogurts (or worse, yogurts "enriched" with dairy cream)?
My favorite UA-camr making a video about my other favorite UA-camr 🍿🍿🍿
I was curious what your take was going to be when I saw this video. Was not disappointed.
First, I watch you both and love the content that you both produce.
I think the point of the issue with Ultra-processed food, as explain by @KianaDocherty , is that it is easier and faster to digest regardless of the nutritional content. This translates to me that even if the McDonald's apple pie has the same about of fiber, fat, and protein as a slice of homemade apple pie, you will get hungry again sooner with the McDonald's product because your body has digested it faster. That was my takeaway anyway.
I will add that the video did not fully put me off to ultra-processed foods. I am not going to find whey protein isolate as any form of non-processed food. I am still going to bring some processed snack foods into my house. And I will continue to do the occasional fast food run for my family. I think it all comes to moderation: don't eat primarily ultra-processed foods in your diet. I will acknowledge that this is a privileged stance to have compared to families that lack the funds or means to keep fresh, unprocessed foods in their homes.
Im so curious on your thoughts on the differences in food from the US and the UK and how there are many testimonies, idk about studies, on how people lose weight in the UK eating the same ish they eat in the US
UK obesity rates are quickly catching up though
@@Hailey-bz2ym true true!
No not really, search obesity rate by country Wikipedia and you should find a page giving the obesity rates by country according to CIA The World Factbook. According to them the obesity rate of the US is double that of the UK. Americans are eating and drinking more calories. It's not about availability only , it's what people are choosing to eat. I am in Australia we are about half way between the US and UK.
@@annoyedaussie3942 Ill def do some looking around on it. To be fair though, if you compare ingredients in the US vs most other countries its crazy on thr crap that is put in the products
You cannot sit here and tell me that unltra processed foods are the same as we cooking it at home. You cannot tell me that when at McDonald's they put powder milk on fries, sugar in the buns, sugar in the salads... you CANNOT tell me that if I make a pie at home I'll be just as unhealthy as a sugary bite from McDonald's. When you make things at home you don't use as much sugar, your fruit will be cut bigger, your oil will be in a pan, not deep fried etc... You underestimate home made foods. Just because there's like a pound of sugar in a 2L of cola or other commercial juice, that doesn't mean a home made glass of orange or apple juice will contain the same amount.
So you agree with her that foods should be judged on their actual nutritional value.
Exactly. I don't buy ingredients or products with harmful additives, especially the ones that disrupt hormones. Fast / processed food is full of it. I have full control of the sugar that goes into cooking. It's not just about calories / weight gain.
Nah, homemade foods can be just as bad for you, especially if you overeat. And what do you mean “not deep fried”? A lot of people do that at home.
@@leeseiberg2408 plus, plenty of people make pies at home with an abundance of butter/lard and sugar. Restaurant desserts - even more so. At least store bought junk food has to disclose its bullshit on the label.
@@leeseiberg2408 I'm sorry but in my country deep frying at home is not as common as it may be in the Us. And that's why I take even more issue with her argument because there's different cultures all around the world with different foods more or less healthy and just saying that food made at home is as bad as McDonald's, basically means "instead of cooking, go to McDonald's" in my book. Which is ludicrous. In my country people make lots of soups and stews and we don't use much butter in our baking and I'm just upset that she looks at those tasteless frozen pizzas and burgers and dares to compare it to a home made burger made with a home made bun. It's infuriating.
what is the mechanism of action for the badness of "processed foods" ?
Idk if this can help anyone but I've been trying to lose weight (I'm not overweight but I want to get more fit and lose body fat), what really helped me was eating the same things I usually eat but cutting the portions in half. At first I ate more often but over time it almost feels like my stomach shrunk. Now if I eat my old portion sizes I feel really uncomfortable because I feel too full, but the half portions feel perfect. If half is too much you could cut your normal portion sizes by 1/3rd.
Boosting protein also really helps
@@paraumbralin I lose weight easiest by limiting both fat and protein. It's impossible to eat too little protein without starving yourself if you eat whole foods.
0:44 Processed Foods ARE Bad
1:52 "Predigested"
4:09 Pie is Pie
6:24 Weight Gain in America
8:18 Snacking & Convenience Foods
9:46 Bread is Bad?
12:57 Lemonade vs Lettuce
16:02 "Science"
17:49 How is This Helpful?
19:50 Anti-Vax
20:32 Run Far Away
21:29 Outro
So it was basically a giant appeal to nature fallacy... surprising given her previous sponsors lol
I feel like her video would make more sense (not this vegan girly) if she correlated accessibility and how easy it is to replace home made meals with UPF rather than that.
I can hold a pretzel with Dr. Pepper and be criticized. I can also hold an Omega 3 nut mix bag and a Diet Pepsi/water and I'd ALSO be criticized. Atp what anyone says is pure poop to me. Eat what you like and leave me alone (to the influenzas on the internet)
I've watched several of her videos and tended to like most of them. This one had me confused as well. While I think we all agree eating foods in a more natural state is ideal having a little ultra processed food isn't going to kill you. It's still mostly about calorie consumption and she seems to demonize the food industry while excusing those who have chosen not to regulate their calorie consumption.
I think the same thing about GMOs people dont understand them so they are scare of them and label them as bad. Specially because of self made tik tok/intagram school degree influencers.
Vegan of 4 years here. Am hoping you can cover the topic on Nickel Allergy. I have had eczema my whole life and throughout going vegan it got worse and worse. My skin is so bad to the point where i have suicidal thoughts. The itch at night is so bad i get 1-2 hours of sleep and my whole body become sore. Im not performing well at work and its hard to function overall. everything hurts and im constantly tired. i have tried many medications and went to so many doctors ,did blood tests and spent so much on this to the point i have financial issues. Considering eating animal products is so hard and its affecting my mental health but it seems to be the only option i have left.
Set your question before dr. John mcDougall, he does live streams each Sunday 5pm pacific where he answers questions, also you can try asking dr. Peter Rogers, he often still answers people in the comments under his more recent videos. Both are whole foods plant based low fat doctors. I'd personally bring my eating down to 1 starch i know i can handle well (potatoes, rice, mais etc.) and let the symptoms die down , then slowly start adding more fruits and vegetables till i find the one containing the ingredient that lets my eczema flare up. Don't worry doing this, all amino acids and vitamins are present in the starch.
So informative, thank you so much for this video
I know why this comment section is so mixed. It's because theres people coming from 2 different contexts.
Kiana's viewers context is one of feeling as if people around them are "glamourizing" and overconsuming ultraprocessed foods
While Unnatural's is one of demonizing ultra processed food and fat in general
Thats why the "nitpicking" in the video cause, in our context, the demonizing of foods is the main problem that can lead to more diseases and problems than just avoiding ultraprocessed food
I agree 100% with the poopy diaper song at the end. Thank you.
I was initially obsessed with her content, but over time there started being little red flags. Stuff I couldn't quite put my finger on but was flashing warning signs in my head.
Why is she demonizing potato starch? It's a perfectly fine thickener for sauces and stuff..
I'm so glad you made a video about this. I thought this video was CRAP. I thought about you while I was listening to it too!
I would really love to see a study on a diet where the meals contained a mixture of processed and whole foods. Specifically as a vegan I would really like to see a reasonable study on a diet that includes faux meats but also includes whole foods. It seems like there are some rational studies of faux meats missing or perhaps they exists and just are skipped over? For example a meals like: Happy Veggie World vegan black pepper ste’ks and broccoli; or Beyond Meat sausage with potatoes; or a faux chicken in a salad. To me I would have a hard time considering these meals terrible.
I think the faux meats all vary and some may be better than others and I don’t like people representing them as having no nutritional value, Beyond Meat burgers for example definitely have higher amounts of fat but they also do have good amounts of folate, thiamine, riboflavin, B6, B12 and of course protein, it’s frickin nuanced. Does it matter if a processed food has no fibre if you pair it with fibre? Sure fibre is good for you, but does that mean absolutely everything that we eat should be ultra high in fibre? If someone thinks everything should be ultra high in fibre then they should eat like Freely, best of luck to them with their impending fibre overdose stomach ache. People in their 30s going on about fibre need to remember you are all going to get old and your digestion slows down and you need some easier to digest food. We need to remember when thinking early humans never ate processed food but early humans didn’t live past 30, so what is right for aging humans is new in relation to how long we have existed.
As someone who was on that vegan to almost antivaxxer pipeline now I understand that chemical phobia is a huge issue. I went back to school and now thinking of majoring in biochemistry. This stuff is hard and time consuming. It’s not easy for regular consumers to read up and catch up with their chemistry. I hope to make science more accessible. There’s also good beginner friendly books about how to read scientific articles that are even on my to-read list. We all need a middle school and high school chemistry lesson.
@clauestudia - I had a similar path, though mine started with being raised super religious, then getting a higher education in microbiology. I just want to congratulate you on getting an education and gaining the tools to better understand the world around you 🏆
Best of luck to you!
What about all the scientists who are highly concerned with processed foods, particularly the ones with additives and 200% daily value of sugar?
@@e_i_e_i_bro too much sugar is bad, but other than that, usually it’s quackery and woo under the guise of science.
I recommend you take a look at dr. Peter Rogers, he's a master biochemist from Stanford and uses biochemistry a lot to explain certain processes, like what happens to our mitochondria when we eat fat etc. And why does meat cause cancer etc. He's 100% against any form of ultra processed foods.