CHEAP Cymbal Makeover?! (Turning a $60 ride into a great jazz cymbal)
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- Опубліковано 13 тра 2024
- Tim Metz's Unboxing : • I WASN'T EXPECTING THI...
reveriedrums.com
Timecode:
0:00 - Intro
1:09 - $50 Ride Cymbal
2:21 - How it Sounds
2:51 - Lathing
5:25 - Hammering
7:28 - The Completed Mod
10:18 - All 3 versions of the mod
14:11 - What I think
16:54 - Bright vs. Dark sounds (aka handmade vs. mass produced)
20:08 - Outro
Tim!! You crushed this! I am so totally blown away by what you were able to achieve with this cymbal. It will certainly be a treasure for me for many many years. Thank you!
This is Matt in Sacramento. Wanna sell me that cymbal (and the Yamaha too -- u know u do)?
Thanks Tim! You are the man!
@@nunnayuhbitness6708you crack me up man!
Amazing work! I learned so much...from Canada👍✌️
The cymbal in its original form was surprisingly decent, even for some jazz. I've heard a lot worse at higher price points. Of course you made it a lot better. Great job and interesting video!
I'd take it too! I been stuck between getting a cheap b20 or b12 ride, x20 or ZHT ,but b12 is hard to rework, I've been told.
Exactly. Reminded me of some cymbals Buddy Rich played when he was older, with big bands. He often had really pingy ride with lot of definition and volume, not something washy.
I have that same cymbal. It has too much ring. I put a dampener on it to stop some of the ring. That cymbal went for over $200 when it first came out. Sabian replaced the Xs 20 line with the XSR line. I have a Xs20 med ride, Xs20 14” thin crash, Xs20 16” thin crash and Xs20 med hi-hats. They are decent sounding. The hi-hats sound really good.
Thanks! I agree, the starting point was pretty good!
Yeah anything non-B20 is different and has less "range" with how you can mod it.
One thing about those XS20 rides: they were remarkably consistent. You can pretty much count on them sounding exactly like this. What a cool idea this video was!
Very true! They are a great starting point.
And are they indeed prone to cracking? I've always heard that but can't confirm.
@@NeCtRiCkS Someone else will have to chime in here. I can comment from my experience working the floor of the Drum Shop in Portland ME for a few years; during that time I never saw cracked XS20's, and while once in a while (because I still teach there) I see one on the used rack. I don't ever see cracked ones.
Is the xs 20 similar to an xsr20?
@@ridenm7748 Kind of, in that the XS20 was a line that made North-American-made B20 bronze cymbals affordable. (Until then if you wanted affordable B20 cymbals you had to go with Chinese-made.) XS20 used B20 to start with, then used manufacturing methods typically used on budget cymbals. With XSR20, they took processes used in making Xplosion and Evolution cymbals and dumbed them down a bit. So goes the story.
It was already much better after round 1! The fact that you knew exactly what to do to take it to another level after round 2 just shows your level of mastery. Amazing work! 👏👏👏
Thanks!
as a drummer you helped fill in some blanks on why cymbals sound the way they do... will definetly help me choose cymbals in the future!
Happy to hear that!
Nice work.
Thanks, Lance! You were a big inspiration for me back in 2017 when I started working with cymbal alloy.
Nice to hear from you M Lance ! Where have you been? 😢
I LOVE the result, well done !
Incredible! The outcome is fantastic👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Excellent work Tim!
Amazing job. One of the nicest cymbals I've ever heard!
Great result with the modification, both with or without the rivets. I find the whole subject fascinating, forming a hook to control the sound, shapes, weights, bells, etc... it really makes me look at my cymbals in a different light. Thank you for sharing some of your expertise, Timothy... I look forward to your next post.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Amazing job, excellent presentation too.
Incredible work Tim!
wow !!!! the end result is amazing sounding!!!
Incredible work!
This is fascinating I need some time stamps for this:
Original 2:25
After first lathe 4:59
Finished - without rivets 10:38
What an amazing job you did! It’s like a more open version of a K light ride, and moves similarly.
amazing Job Tim....as usual.
Nothing short of amazing! God bless you brother!!!
Hey, I really enjoyed this project. Thanks to both Tims!
The final one version without rivet is my prefered. Nice job man!
This was fascinating! Having modded amps, guitars, and basses, I never imagined the idea of having a cymbal modded! I'm truly amazed! Thank for sharing.
Very, very interesting; love what you did here; always ready to learn more about drums AND cymbals. So great, thanks.
You did an amazing job on this!
Nice playing in this video! (in addition to the great transformation of the cymbal!)
What a great video! I love it that tweaking cymbals and making them better versions of themselves is now a thing.
This is perfect example that the chefs is important than material.
Not completely, as Sabian def take the extra steps when the cymbals gunna be expensive..this is more about time..if this dude was trying to introduce a cheaper version of his brand, in hopes to get ppl to buy the more expensive stuff, he'd likely end up with the same cymbal. Cutting corners cut cost. The "materials" in this situation of a cheap ass cymbal were far beyond adequate, it's just the time spent was more. It's more like taking more time to stir a soup while adding a few more dashes of stuff to top it off instead of just sending it out the door with salt and pepper only
@@NintenDub agree with ‘time’. The process to make great cymbal would take long time , energy, knowledge, and passion only by master Craftsmen that machine never can.
Haha 7:23, very nice work on the cymbal and thanks for explaining your methods
Man you got talent !!
Fantastic. I wish I had a cheap cymbal to send you
This was fascinating. Took a cheap-sounding clangy gong and gave it such jazzy delicacy
Preferred it before the rivets but i get why you included them
Sounds beautiful
I was sceptical when I first read the video title, but now after watching it I'm totally convinced. Not only the cymbal sounds great as I've also learned some useful things about cymbals. I really liked the sound right after the lathing. One of my favourite cymbals are Istanbul's Traditional Series. The drums sounded well too.
Thank you!
Beautiful!
Good job...I just saw the before and after by Tim....Amazing.
WOW! What a transformation this is! The final product sounds like an old K from the 50's or 60's, not all K's were good but this cymbal here is awesome.
Thanks!
Fascinating topic, great job, GREAT explanation, i subscribed-
Thanks!
I have this exact same Sabian ride cymbal which I also picked up for about $50. It's remarkable what you were able to turn this into. Really nice!
Thanks!
Well done!!!!
I love what you are doing. Man that cymbal sounds great. You sold me, I would love a custom one.
I've got info on my cymbals and mods on my website: reveriedrums.com/shop/timothy-roberts-cymbals
Great job 🥁
Great job, buddy!
Great work
Excellent! Very informative. I spy the Riley book on your stand there as well.... Cool!
Signed by the man himself back in 2010 when he visited my university. That was a life changing lesson.
Great video - very educational and inspiring. Makes me want to send my A-Zildjian medium ride to you to work your magic!
Bring it on!
Wow, That sounds great
Tim does a beautiful job as you can hear in this mod. He made me a 22" that I use all the time and nailed the sound I wanted. He is a great guy too. Very easy to work with. This guy knows his stuff and I highly recommend him.
Thank you!
Amazing 🔥🔥🔥🔥
Well this is bloody great!
Amazing content, so much more detail and insight than those factory tour videos.. and I’ve actually toured the Zildjian factory in person 😄
That’s amazing !!!
Hey! I have that exact cymbal! I got it back in high school as my first ride as a gift from my pops. I have gigged it for close to 15 years and I’ll echo what everyone else is saying - the XS20s were fantastic entry level cymbals and all-around greats. Can’t wait to see what you do with it! 😎
Wow you really did a great job with that cymbal. You took the nasty ovtertones out. Love the crash, attack with quick fade, and the ride, low wash with great stick definition even right after the crash. Great job.
Thank you!
Beautiful
What an amazing skill to have.
That's crazy! I love the XS20 cymbals lol But man I really want to send you one of my rides just to do that first initial lathe job you did. I loved that!
Thanks!
Quite impressive!
It sounds awesome
Very awesome video!
It would be cool to do a mini series of these and showing the tonal change after each step for hats/crash/ride to see how the lathing and hammering effects it. But i know that would be a crazy amount of work lol
Thanks for sharing this journey it was very cool to see!
I would love to do something like that. I've got other videos that go into this somewhat. This one in particular is fun: ua-cam.com/video/1BfLqWty7Jk/v-deo.html
also part 2: ua-cam.com/video/ERFFQ5IzTWQ/v-deo.html
@@ReverieDrumCo Thanks! i checke those videos out and they were lots of fun and very cool. I definetly subscribed to your channel!
This is insane!
It depends too you guys, the XS20 basically got shaped with a hundred ton hydraulic press then lathed. Hammering takes a lot of man hours hand hammering and the cost of running the additional hammering machines in the process beating up their equipment too.. Tim basically adds complexity and what Jazz players need the sound and feel of the cymbal in order for it to work. Furthermore as like what Tim said, it's easier to work with a smaller bell harder to do with an A heavy ride etc.
Popular in the 60s...called a sizzles among other names.
Incredible mod🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
amazing!
Timothy idk if you remember me but I had you do a similar thing with 2 stagg b20 rides. Still have them and they are getting even better with time. Super buttery cymbals that turn heads when people see and hear them
So glad to hear that! Those really were nice entry level b20s.
Great work Tim!!! I really like the sound and play-ability of the ride with the clarity and homogenous sound of the bell! Not sure if this was mentioned, I am interested as to why the placement of the 10 rivets midway between the bell and edge?
That was a nod to this old K I did a video on recently: ua-cam.com/video/XskFGIelqGM/v-deo.html
Yeah Tim, you’re doing great work!
Thank you Clarence! Means a ton coming from you!
Fuckin A Tim! That's kinda astounding. You did some magic there on that baby. I dig it the most without the rivets but with the rivets is also very sweet!
Thanks!
Great....impressive
Great work! As a woodturner, I’ve spent sixteen years facing the headstock of a lathe. Yr technique at the lathe is absolutely text-book-quality. Great fluidity and control to yr movements.
Wow! That's awesome to hear. I'm completely self-taught on turning so as far as I knew I could have terrible technique! haha
@@ReverieDrumCo Yr definitely doing something right! Beautiful final result, by the way-sounds and looks great. (I love that you removed so much weight evenly to make the cymbal look liquid when struck with any force.)
@@a.s.henderson483 thank you!
Amazing man!I thought it was an April fools joke at first.
It sounded good out of the box!
Just heard it finished. Great work! Sounds amazing!
Yeah it was a good sound out of the box for louder music!
Amazed. Born and raised in İstanbul, never used anything except the real real K. s ı must say I am impressed. Nothing close of course, but a well done job.
You're really great man, even as a jazz drummer. Greetings from Andy Moehring
Thank you!
This is cool ❤.
Lovely.
Great work bravissimo complimenti dall'ITALIA
Awesome.
I liked the way you made it sound the same as at the beginning, except with rivets.
Magic.
Wow. I've always loved thin cymbals but this is crazy !!!
It makes sense now though its like such an instantly recognizeable sound...
wow youre a crazy good drummer too
Thanks!
So, I am absolutely not a musician of any sorts, just so we are clear. I did notice what you refers to a darker tone in the final one. I understand now that the ring adds structure to a thinner cymbal. It makes sense from a structural perspective. This is why bead rollers and ridges are used on sheet metal on roofing. I am impressed with your detailed description of what you did. The fast speed of the progress was sort of annoying. You should have explained you intended pass then sped it up, then showed the final result. I think, in my opinion, that you are an incredible teacher and will inspire many people like me to attempt something extra ordinary like this. I personally liked the bright bell. The last rendition sounded too dark for my taste, but I am warming up to it. As I said before, I am far from musically inclined. Very cool video!
Johan used to refer to the Sabian XS20 as the perfect blanks for modifying cymbals. This video made me a bit nostalgic for the olden day chats with him.
You did a great job on this one. Would be a very fun left side ride.
What a Legend!
@ReverieDrumCo he was a very generous soul. Happy to share his insights.
Are you kidding me? This sounds SO good dude! This is actually inspiring because now I’ll go find a junk 24” for next to nothing and you can turn it into THIS! Crazy. I actually have a Sabian Big Ugly Apollo 22” that has a weird overtone I don’t like. I bet it would sound amazing with rivets and your expertise
I've worked quite a few big and uglies and they are GREAT to mod. They are basically underprocessed bronze (which is why they're so cheap) so I can take them in a number of different directions.
I can't believe that wad a xs 20. Truly Amazing!
very nice work. I believe the word you were saying at 9:20 is flange which is pronounced with a softer a sound.
Master work again! 👏👏👏
I originally commented on this mod before seeing the full video. The XS really wasn't terrible at all. It had the ping of a really crystal like flat. More usable than I thought. It's definitely a product of it's time. Don't be surprised now if you have people sending you XS rides 😏. I think I still prefer the final version, but I do like the round one version a lot. It's a more versatile crash ride. The final version with rivets is more job specific. It has vibe for daaaays!!......super buttery!. You really captured the old K character. Is it maybe a little too dry?. Taking off half the rivets would let it breath a little more?. It would work well in a small jazz combo in a small venue, unless the drums are miked up. You definitely created a special instrument from a cheaper "entry" cymbal.
Thank you! Yeah the original is not a bad sound at all. I agree also that it doesn't need all the rivets. Thanks for watching!
Great job! The mod sounds a bit like a Jimmy Cobb cymbal to me, that fast crash and low ride sound - those rivets drying out the sound might be a part of this.
I agree the XS20 can be decent right out of the box (no hammering at all I think). I once used a whole set of those on a gig, nobody complained :)
Yeah, they are great entry level B20s. Nothing wrong with them at all for louder music.
Wow!
Very nice work! Well done! When you were shaving off some material from the cymbal, one question came to my mind : can this bronze "wool" be used for any industrial application? For example manufacturing scouring pads or anything needing thin layers of metal.
Thanks for watching! The bronze shavings are very brittle and disintegrate into dust when they are used for abrasion purposes. It works great but it's not reusable for that kind of application. I recycle it.
Fascinating! Great video, thanks. Of all my drum components I’ve found that cymbals are by far the most subjective sound…✌️🇦🇺
Very true!
*The **_"shimmering,"_* literally shimmering at that, when "crashed" on, or "rode a little hard," is soooooooo visible in the cymbal, that it almost looks like waves on the ocean, as they "CRASH," onto the beach, then back out to sea!!!! Also, I am glad that you took into consideration the two different stick tips, 1.) Wood & 2.) Nylon!! I am, and have always been, a nylon tipped stick user, and sadly many overlook the fact that both types exist, and are important to the drummer playing!!! 😎🤘🏼
Thanks for watching!
Your work is great as always. I have a 20" Paiste 3000 I would like to turn into a complex ride. Can you help do this?
The 3000 series is B8 alloy so, while I could make it sound a bit more complex, it wouldn't have near as much room as a B20 alloy cymbal. B8s don't sound great when they are thin (in my opinion)
To add rivets as a "nod" to another cymbal is fantastic. I may have found someone who loves cymbals even more than I do.
"you can tune a drum but you cant tune a cymbal" meanwhile ant reverie:
😂😂 imagined me comming to gig: “Oh it’s medium ride, just a minute” and bust out my lathe and hammers 😂😂
7:24 Very nice 😂
Great work on this one. As far as I've seen, these xs20 break like glass, on the edge mostly. I was wondering, do you anneal or heat treat cymbals sometimes and if so, what effect it has?
No I don't do any heat treatment. I'd like to get into annealing in the future, but probably not for a few years.
The xs20s are pretty stable as far as I know. Cymbals breaking all has to do with how they're played. The only cymbals I know of that "seem" to crack easier are chinese made b20.
Mr.Metz send me here 🙌❤️🥁🔥 and i luv it
woohoo!
Sounded and looked really good at 5:11 I'm more into my rock tones though and retro looks. Sounded kind of washy at the end but I guess that's jazz? Certainly drastically transformed! Those Sabian XS cymbals are a secret budget gem. I've got a set. I got 20"R 16"C 14"C 10"S and 14"Hats all for £70 on the FaceSpace MarketPlace couldn't say no!
Great transformation. That is amazing!!! That Xs cymbal went for over $200 when it first came out. Sabian replaced the Xs line with the XSR line. I have an Xs 20 and find it has a lot of ring. Too much ring. I have to put a dampener on it to halt some of the ring. I also have some Xs20 med hihats that sound really good. I’ll bet you could make them sizzle.
Yeah that pack is an excellent started kit.
Excellent job, I love the sound, and man you rock the drums like Tim!
Hey Reverie Drum Co. I love what you do. Do you do any of your own cymbal lines that will mesh well for a rock\country\pop setting? Or just jazz mainly?
Yeah! I make quite a few heavier cymbals that function great in those genres. My landmark series in a medium heavy weight is my go to for live stuff.
Lmfao I used to play this exact ride in my middle/hs band practices, every time a performance rolled around I’d bring my own K Custom Medium ride just because the XS was so bad