Who are the Forsaken in the Wheel of Time TV series? 8 Villains revealed!
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- Опубліковано 19 чер 2024
- The Wheel of Time has revealed 8 Forsaken as the major villains of the TV series. Here I go (spoiler-free) into depth on what we know about these 8 villains, what we can infer and who might be present / missing from the 13 Forsaken of the book series.
#wheeloftime #wotonprime #forsaken #theforsaken #deepdive #thechosen
00:00 - Already-revealed Forsaken
02:16 - Known / Namedropped Forsaken
03:57 - Implied / Guessed Forsaken
07:39 - Other probable 'dropped' Forsaken - Розваги
![SEANCHAN [The Strangest Places in the Wheel of Time]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Menmk4C1eaI/mqdefault.jpg)
I think the female statue is Semirhage, she is more important far ahead in the story than Mesaana, and far more interesting too. Probably some things from Mesaana is gonna be combined in Lanfear arc in the future, so my guess is her that was cut from the show. Great video.
Yep my thoughts exactly. Mesaana also spends basically the whole series 'in disguise' so it wouldn't be difficult to pass out her jobs to Lanfear, Moghedien, or even Semirhage.
If Alviarin is introduced in the show, she can definitely take on the Mesaana arc.
We will see them all eventually. If they go the full 8 seasons typical of them we have a long way to go. Each Chosen has an integral part to play in the final 6 books. Osan'gar and Aran'gar are "the boys" (Aginor and Balthamel) who we do not see until after their transformation. Channeling the opposite power is a springboard into extended story lines that are important to the culmination of forces of light gathering in one place and a major turning point that ends with Egwene being raised to the Amyrlin Seat and the reunification of the tower.
You have suggested that we will not see the introduction of all 13 Chosen. This is a mistake.
I am most excited to see Graendal, I think she is by far the most subtle character. I don't think anything about the way she presents herself is authentic, I think she created the Graendal persona to hide her true self, which was the ascetic, judgmental, misanthrope that she was before. Anything you're allowed to see on her surface is to achieve a desired effect. Graendal wants you to think she's ridiculous, and therefore not a threat. She wants you to think she cares about things like her appearance and the pleasures of the flesh, which of course means she couldn't care less about those things. I think Graendal is fascinating because of that. I really hope the show leans into her layers, and gives her a character 'glow up' as the show did with both Ishamael and Lanfear.
I definitely think we have to have Semirhage, and that Lanfear not mentioning her to Ishamael could be due to Lanfear's unwillingness to even speak the name of her most bitter rival.
I also think that because only 8 Forsaken got sealed, that means that the other five went back into the ordinary cycle of death and rebirth. So we might see Aginor simply as Dashiva reborn, and the same holds for Balthamel/Halima. Mesaana might have been reborn as Alviarin, and Be'lal and Rahvin could be one-scene wonders who dies spectacularly. Or, perhaps if Demandred isn't Mazrim Taim, then perhaps Rahvin is, through ordinary reincarnation.
Graendal is my favourite... but I am almost certain she would be depicted as black in the show. My instinct tells me she will be... specially if we only have 3 female forsaken (as 2 are already white). That would be a shame for them not to stick to the story. I guess they will add her with some of Semighardes properties. Or those of Mesaana with some split with Moghedien.
@@Alejojojo6 um...do you think one of Graendal's key characteristics in the book is that she is "white"? Are you actually serious? 🤨
The books make a very clear point that people's apparent ethnicity is pretty unremarkable and irrelevant, that society has deemed other factors (mainly nationality and gender) as the key traits that people build their identity around. Your _affiliations_ are what matter to people. Are you a Darkfriend, are you a Whitecloak, are you Aes Sedai, are you a man who can channel, are you Aiel, are you Cairhienin, Domani, Tairen, etc. Your skin color tells people nothing about who you are in this world, and as a result no one cares about it one way or the other. And yes, it's clear this is also true in the Age of Legends, where Graendal is from. Semirhage being dark skinned in the books is not a character trait, it's a descriptive detail. Graendal's skintone isn't discussed in great depth, but we know from Graendal's point of view chapters that literally nothing about her appearance is important or meaningful to her in any way. When she is reborn as Hessalam, she chuckles at the idea that the Dark One making her hideously ugly was supposed to be a punishment, because she literally never cared about any of that. Nothing about who Graendal is pertains to her 'whiteness' in the books.
If Show Graendal is portrayed by a black actress, it really won't matter to me. And frankly, it says a lot about you that you think a character being "white" is important to "sticking to the story". This story isn't about white people and black people and never was. I honestly don't know what books some of you are reading.
I'm certain we will see Asmodean. He is Rand"s teacher of the Power. So far Rand hasn't had any training, neither with the sword nor the Power. Beyond that, I don't have any preference
Why would he get training? This is the Egwene is the dragon reborn and Rand a false dragon as he does nothing and all the big moments go to Egwene or Moiraine.
@jonahdav9589 think Rafe wanted to establish the women first as they are more mature then the 3 men and they take a back seat for a time. Rand needed time to accept who he is, his importance and the role he will play in the world. Now it's his time, among with Perrin and Mat.
I actually thought they would skip him and replace him with Logain (the learning part that is). But, it's quite undeniable the statue has and instrument. I guess we'll see if the show feels beholden to it's previous episodes or not. They've certainly not felt beholden to the books.
Yes to Asmo. I think he is already cast.
@@jonahdav9589I think 2 things about this. 1. When you read the books, you only noticed the male parts. I get it. I couldn’t ever really care less about Perrin or Rand. 2. It’s hard to share power when you never had to.
Thanks Mate!! Fantastic Work and Info
You're welcome!
This vid is much appreciated!
You're welcome!
Sacrifices have to be made I guess, but as long as they don't mess up Demandred and Graendal too much, it's ok. Those two really made the most damage to Lightside. I suppose if they want to keep Lanfear alive, they could switch her with Graendal but nah... I wanna see Moiraine Vs Lanfear. Props to the one who's playing Lanfear. She really did Mierin proud, that's some great looking goth chick right there and she plays the part well.
Great video!
I really love what the show is doing with the Forsaken, especially showing that neither of them can trust each other. I love Moghedian and I can't wait for Asmodean next season!
yes, I think they could do a lot with the character. I suspect they will also hint at him being a musician around the same time as Thom's reappearance in the show to muddy the waters a bit.
OMG WAIT. It's a stretch, a huge stretch, but if they made Thom Asmodean in the show....@@MaesterEamon
wouldn’t work since the show had the forsaken all sealed up until Ishamael broke the seals and Thom appeared before that happened. They could definitely toy with the idea though, most people probably wouldn’t notice the inconsistency with how quickly the show moving and glossing over details
What i like so far about the forsaken in the show is that they seem somehow competent which is a huge step up from the books where they seem to fail constantly in nearly all their schemes to a point where you hardly consider them a threat in the later books
to be fair a lot of their schemes are foiled just on account of main characters being Ta'Veren (eg. Mat foiling both Rahvin and Semirhage mostly by accident). A lot of other plans are foiled by each other (eg. Sammael sending Trollocs to the Stone and Semirhage sending others to stop them), and Semirhage was foiled by the Dark One himself (or rather used by him). But yeah in general most of their plans didn't seem particularly cunning or intricate with a few notable exceptions. @@alexanderrose1556
In the book series I loved the fight between Rahvin vs Rand. Such a nice use of balefire.
Yes I think that confrontation needs to happen in the show as well due to the links with other plot lines, but I think it could be Sammael instead of Rahvin to compress the plot down.
I hated Balefire for some reason. It just seemed like such a cheap way to kill.
The funny thing for me was, as I was reading the book for the first time back in the 90s, the description for Graendal made me think of Pamela Anderson of all people.
05:32 I hope you're right, here. She was perhaps the most terrifying of the Forsaken.
I very much agree on Semirhage. But I believe Rahvin has equal probability as Demanded. The Rahvin plotline in Caemlyn is very important for the series. I personally believe Rahvin and Demandred will be merged. Their plotlines don't overlap chronologically and could easily be sequential.
I'm not sure which Forsaken I'm most excited to see, haha, I was always kinda underwhelmed by them in the books honestly. Asmodean is probably the one I'm most curious about. I wanna see what they do with him
Yeah I actually think the reinterpretation of the Forsaken is one thing the show has got right, so far (at least for Ishamael and Lanfear). Asmodean will be interesting for sure because he's a fairly passive personality in the books. I think they might make him far more of an eccentric showman. Also interested to see what they do with Demandred (assuming I'm right about who they are including) and I think Semirhage could be very cool. Lanfear when first revealed as Forsaken was already pretty frightening, but Semirhage could be far scarier.
Semirhage was always my favorite, though I'd love to see Mesaana as well. Sadly, with Lanfear's reference to the remainder as 'the boys', I'm assuming she, Moghedien, and Graendel are likely the only females.
Very much looking forward to how they handle the inclusion or absence of Rahvin, who would be a necessity I think, if the series follows the story model - but agreed, Asmodean and Demandred are far more likely.
I understand the need to reduce due to adaptation, but the purist in me struggles a bit when they do it. Too many 'favorite characters', lol.
I really like how the show is portraying Lanfear and Ishameal. Fares is something of an inspired choice for Ishameal, but I do wish they'd kept more of the white and moon aesthetic for Lanfear.
I really hope Semirhage and Asmodean are in the mix. Both are really interesting characters that I also wish had more story in the books.
Yeah, the Forsaken have really been carrying the show so far both in terms of plot and acting.
Isn't Semirhage already in the show? After all where Suroth goes she goes.
@@johnlloyddy7016 wrong character, without wanting to get too far into spoilers you're thinking of someone else's Voice.
I think you nailed it. I haven’t checked in a bit, but did you look at the symbols around the seal from the first episode? Each one seems to correspond with a forsaken.
I didn't notice that! Is it the first episode of Season 1 or Season 2?
@@MaesterEamon In the cold open of season 2 iirc
Just checked. It's about 3½ minutes into the first episode of season 2. The little girl steps next to it. You may have to manually brighten it up though
I hope we get Asmodean, and I hope maybe they keep him around a little longer.
Rand already learned it all from his conversation from logain. 😂😂😂😂😂
Solid choices.
Good except there was a bit thumping in the background which because of my subwoofer was extremely distracting. I think it was the sound of air on the microphone, such as when someone is holding the mic too close when talking. Just an FYI as to why I didn't finish an otherwise interesting and good video. Still gave it a Like. 😊
Thanks for the heads up! I was holding the mic low to avoid pops but you probably get bass thumps whenever I moved the mic or lead. I'll try to remember to add a low cut next time!
NGL , there’s not much I enjoy about the show, but I really like the expanded roles and back stories around the forsaken. The books imo outlined them in broad strokes and sometimes relegated them to mustache twirling villains, giving few examples of why they were so terrifying to the people of their age. I can’t wait to see with they do with Semierhag! The forsaken so evil that the other forsaken feared her!
Yes, I think the added depth of the 'bad guys' is the only thing the show has really got right so far in terms of plot.
It would be interesting if they had Aran'gar/Halima. A female Forsaken channeling Saidin is a very unique concept, and is a good way to stand out from the rest.
Difficult to see how they would implement it though given Balthamel wasn't in the show at all.
Ishamael, Lanfear, moghedien, Graendal, Rahvin, Sammael, Demandred, Asmodean. I am hopeful to be wrong on one man and get Semirhage but I think the above is the lineup. If I had to combine or drop might be Rahvin
There's clearly a 4th feminine statue in season 1 though, so it should be Semirhage unless they're retconning, or making one of the men extremely feminine. I think Semirhage would be better than Rahvin. It would be fairly easy to merge Rahvin into Sammael and condense those conflicts into one, with Sammael's enmity with Lews Therin giving more weight to the conflict.
Wasn't he really important in the Caemlyn plot though? Unless they substitute him with Sammael...
It's almost easier to eliminate the unlikely ones: Aginor and Balthamel were only relevant to the Book 1 ending (unless they use some of the later twists... I'd personally wager Aran'gar is at least as important as Semirhage later on? 🤷♂️). And Be'lal... Heck, I forgot he existed until I counted and only reached 12 😂
They already confirmed that Asmodean would not be shown in the tv series and his role as Rand's mentor would be taken by Logain instead (which we already saw something of it in season 2). Semigarde and Mesaana would not appear either as their roles would be divided between Moghedien, Graendal and Lanfear. So beside Ishamael and Sammael being confirmed by being mentioned, 3positions remain: Those are Demandred, Rahvin (as they have important roles in the story) and perhaps Aginor (Bathamel and Be'lal are pointless in the story so most likely they would not be shown) as the creator of the trollocs and first to turn to the shadow.
Makes no sense for Logain to be Rand's teacher. He doesn't have half the knowledge of a Forsaken. Rand needs all the training possible
having Aginor as a main forsaken is idiotic since he died, while fighting rand for the eye of the world, in the books at any rate..and Mogedien(or however its spelled) was far from the weakest
Who confirmed that when? I didn’t think that’s true? Asmo is cast for S3.
logain be the mentor of rand have no sense he can't teach anything that rand doesn't already know the teacher need be someone tha know the skills lost in the age of legends
This showrunners just do shit omg
@@Guardian582moghedien was the most weakest and for a long marge, the second more weakest was mesana
If they use Demandred, I'm betting they also go with T=D and merge those two characters. Otherwise, Demandred doesn't have a lot to do until AMoL, so would be somewhat a waste.
It can't be, because Taim is mentioned at the start of season 2 and therefore is already active by then as a false dragon, unlike Demandred who is released only at the end of season 2.
I think it would be a bad move, though they could certainly play with the possibility as a red herring the way it seemed to be going in the book.
I don't think it's an issue to have the character absent from the show until late seasons, though. They already struggle with coherent story arcs with just a handful of characters, if they try to follow 7 forsaken every season it's going to be a total mess. I suspect they'll introduce 1-2 per season from now on and mention the others in passing. Probably next season will focus on Asmodean, Moghedien and Lanfear, then Graendal + Sammael, and Semirhage / Demandred (if my guess is right) in later seasons.
I have a hard time separating Moghedian from Messana, and Simuragh. And Demandred vs Sammael.
Semirhage that’s my girl putting the suldan to shame & making them seem like the good guys
The other ones gotta be Demandred, Sammael, Rahvin and Asmodean. They have significant impact in the series so it makes sense for them.
There are 4 female figures though, and I'd argue Semirhage is at least as important as Rahvin and definitely more interesting.
Rahvin better chance than Semirhage as we need Rand to be mad for Elayne. Semirhage they've already replaced with Ishy. I don't think they will last to have Semirahge. I think show's already bombing and gonna get cut. Lanfear would've mentioned Semirhage and also Lanfear was wearing black. I think they merged Lanfear with Semirhage. They'll keep Lanfear around longer. Dunno if Moridin's coming back but I'm guessing Demandred's gonna be the final boss@@MaesterEamon
I would argue that it is KNOWN, not believed, that Mohgedian was much stronger than Lanfear in Tel’aran’rihod, even Lanfear knew this, she just didn’t care, and looked at Mohgedian with such disdain and being beneath her that she made the claim anyway. Even to Mohgedians face. Remember, in the Age of Legends society deferred to strength in the power. Meaning Lanfear had much higher standing. Just a point I thought should be made.
The 8 we will see I think
1. Ishamael
2. Lanfear
3. Moghedien
4. Asmodean
5. Graendal
6. Semirhage
7. Sammael
8. Demandred
Doubt we will get Asmodean as the darkfiend Rafe has merged Logain with that character already.
They've explicitly mentioned Sammael in show.
@@jonahdav9589 one of the figures carries a guitar, Logain barely taught Rand anything and he's hardly going to be sauntering off to Rhuidean to do everything else Asmodean does.
Semigharde would not be shown, so that leaves room for Rahvin. Then Asmodean has been said to be left out of the story and it's place taken by Logain as mentor figure. That leaves the spot for either Aginor, Bathamel or Be'lal. Meaning Aginor being the most important of the three would most likely take the place as creator of the Trollocs and first to turn to the shadow.
Its been confirmed by the show runners that Asmodean's role as mentor would be taken by Logain instead@@MaesterEamon
We'll get Sammael, Rhavin and Demandred. Moghedien, Grendaehl and Mesaana.
Isn't Graendal considered the 3 strongest behind Demandred?
There's a list from the Wheel of Time Companion that rates Graendal toward the bottom (of the Forsaken) in terms of raw strength in the power; men in general I think are meant to have more raw strength but less dexterity of control. According to that the weakest male Forsaken still ranks above the strongest female in raw strength. wot.fandom.com/wiki/One_Power#Strength_as_described_in_The_Wheel_of_Time_Companion
unoficial ranking forsaken based on the books:
Ishamael
Rhavin
Agenor
Demandred
Samael
Lanfear
Semirhage
Balthamel
Asmodean
Belal
Grandeal
Mesana
Moghedien
This rank already takes into account the ability with the one power, not just raw power
I hope this help you
I hope Mogi is stronger in the show. I got super aggravated with RJ for putting his weakest up against my girl.
since lanfear is the most powerful female forsaken and spider is the most weak, why was spider able to own lanfear at the end of the season?!
She ambushed her. Raw power only goes so far, which is why the Forsaken spend so much time scheming.
Yeah you have a point. But is it really an ambush if lanfear already saw her sitting, unless there could be some kind of protection spell that spider might've placed as an ambush to maybe supress Lanfear's powers and catch her off guard. becuase we saw how Lanfear literally waved her hand and deleted Siuan even tho she wasn't probably prepared to see her there spesifically@@MaesterEamon
Good content but had to thumbs down. Back away from the mic a little I don't need to hear the moisture popping in your mouth everything you open and close your lips
Sorry about that! Unfortunately had to record this with kids asleep in the next room so was basically talking under my breath, which meant having to boost the volume and pick up all that unwanted noise.
@MaesterEamon not hating, absolutely love your videos and your detailed explanations. Just the audio bothered me. Given the explanation, I totally understand and get why the audio is that way
drink some water dude.
The show sucks, like why why
Its interesting i like it