I would have loved of they were a silicon base life form, instead of carbon. The Forerunners not cataloguing something so alien as rock life would explain how they missed them first and the Flood that didn't feed off of them during the years post-firing, and also would be cool to see something this different. But I think they're carbon based considering how they look in game.
@@brandicunningham7243 I was thinking aquatic as well. The face especially gives the vibe of a squid and the movement of the harbinger looks like "swimming" through the air. I really want to see what they could have possibly needed help with if they have some control over time, and the mystery of their race is definitely something that has me wanting more. Most of the halo lore breaks down superhuman feats or weapons to advanced science, but the teleporting around the room to drop homing bombs makes me think they have some sort of ability to manipulate slip space on a personal level. Which would also mean they might not be immune to the flood but could "warp" past the blast of the halo and then be starving as their food supply was killed off like the floods? So interested to see how they develop.
It would be impossible to know what Precursors look like. We have an image of the Primordial on Zeta Halo, sure, and the image from Warfleet. However, the Precursors were constantly evolving and also changing their form. So, there is no definitive appearance for them.
@@pokris3385 No, Precursors had in the lore “trans-sentient” levels of technological advancement as denoted by the forerunners and had the ability to create corporeal and noncorporeal structures as well as alter their forms at will. Think of them as being able to shape the fabric of reality to their will, why not change the way they look from time to time?
I think apart from the idea that they descended from Precursors somehow (being able to change form at will, making themselves Halo resistant), it seems almost more likely that it's a client race created by the Precursors to bring them back. That's the only way they could live up to being worse than the Flood. Think about it, a race that can resist the Halo and is working on controlling time, what if they can reverse entropy in a small field or something like that avoiding time travel shenanigans, turn dust back into the Primordial...The Endless thought the Forerunners were there to help them, so they seem too innocent to be the Precursors directly, but could be a race working to bring back their masters.
Also consider that because the primordial controls the flood via neural physics, the endless could do the same and potentially put the flood at a more dangerous level. With this in mind the local flood in an area could skip the feral stage and immediately start at the coordinated stage and depending on how far they can go with neural physics, they could transfer some of that space magic to flood forms making them more deadly.
Didn’t think about that, but definitely makes sense! I think this theory is more likely than what I believed before, that being that the endless are precursors or subspecies of precursor. I would much prefer your rout as well, keep the precursors a mystery for the most part. Don’t do what they did to the forerunners
I think the endless would be the first creation of the precursors. The precursors realized they made something that could challenge their power. So they weakened it into humans. Otherwise I could fucking teleport like the endless.
Interesting theory, I think even if they aren’t precursors themselves, they’re absolutely tied to them in some significant way and this is definitely a good possibility. One thing people keep missing is that by being immune to the Halo rings, that also means that they’re immune to the flood which you mentioned and I think that’s gonna be incredibly important going forward.
@@alanmoore5881 I’d argue it’s highly likely, one is a super weapon that targets nervous systems and the other is a parasite that takes control of a hosts nervous system - it doesn’t need to be overly complex, IMO
I think they aren't immune to the Halos. I think they're extragalactic and only showed up after the Halos were fired. That'd also explain why they weren't cataloged
I kinda like the idea of of the Harbinger and her species having a nervous system similar to starfish and jellyfish. Gives me the idea that they'd be dual respiratory... being able to breathe on land and in the water. But the only downside I can think of is that they don't appear to have gills. Plus it could be the start of aquatic sapient species existing in the Halo universe
Unless the mandible like mouth functions as it but the Harbinger was also covered in armor perhaps there are gills elsewhere. Or the suit provides something.
From the moment I heard the Gravemind quote, it has been stuck in my head that they're in some way related to the Precursor's. Unlike many others, I believed the same as you from the start: That they're not Precursors themselves, but rather related in some way. Either as a species that directly served the Precursor's unbeknownst to the Forerunners, or a Precursor creation that went unnoticed until they survived the Halo array and were subsequently discovered. I'm not entirely sure how much I agree with them being purposefully intended as a Flood countermeasure, but I can't deny the plausibility of that either. I do believe however that the Xalanyn bore no ill will towards the Forerunners until they were imprisoned for the crime of survival, so they don't strike me as a Precursor revenge plot either. Regardless, I feel like this is probably the best way to introduce the Precursor's to people who've only played the games. Precursor's themselves feel like they would be insurmountable as enemies, and defeating literal gods just doesn't feel right for Halo. But defeating a direct creation of theirs, and learning tidbits about them in the process, wouldn't be so bad and allows them to remain largely mysterious.
If anything, this is solidifying my own theory that the endless are precursor-evolutions. As they devolved into the flood they could have devolved into the endless too. Are they precursor? No. But similar to how Greg bear implies humanity and ancient forerunners share some mild common ancestry, the endless and flood may as well
Kind of unrelated but, I just want that mystery ship that crashed on installation 04 in the CEA terminals that guilty spark entombed to be brought up in some form again. I’m currently banking on the endless having something to do with that.
It's only assumption right now that immunity to the Halo means immunity to the Flood, if you think about it the Flood gaining a Halo resistant race in their ranks would have been an even more nightmare scenario for the Forerunners and maybe why they were scared shitless of the Endless who seemed innocent when they met, thinking the Forerunners had come to help
I think the Precursors as a race should remain enigmatic. It’s good for a franchise to encourage fan theories based on its lore. Hence in 40K the Lost Primarches are still unnamed. Yoda’s homeworld and species have never been identified, despite Star Wars being over 40 years old. Also, the Liberian made the Master Chief immune [or at least resistant] to the composer by altering some of his DNA. Perhaps the Precursors genetically engineered the Endless to not have neural physics. Also are the Endless, one species that is polymorphic or a collection of related species?
The artifacts in campaign state that the worst thing for the Forerunners is not the Flood, its loosing their power. The threat of loosing their rule over the galaxy is inherent but might not be exclusive to the Flood. I think they are related in some way to the precurosors, without being literal precursors.
Interesting that some of the concept art has 4 arms like the primordial. Maybe they're akin to prometheans being made by the Forerunner, albeit to fight something besides flood.
6:09 Maybe they lack a central nervous system like Durge and his species in Star Wars Legends (although they still had nerve clusters distributed throughout their bodies so perhaps they'd still be susceptible to the Halo Array).
I'm still willing to put money down that the Warden Eternal is a composed member of the Endless. While I'm saying this based on his head's resemblance to the Harbinger's helmet, I don't think this was a coincidence. Maybe he was once a high ranking member or representative of the Endless that championed his people against the Forerunners' oppression, but they later captured and punished him to serve as an eternal protector to the Forerunners' control of the Domain as well as setting an example to all the other Endless that defied them.
If he is, then this might explain what the Endless's unique quality is, as the Warden Eternal has "one mind, but a few million bodies" what if the same goes for the organic Endless? A massive hive-mind controlling multiple bodies with a single consciousness?
@@jakespacepiratee3740 I wasn't sure about the Endless having a hive mind mentality, but now that I think of it, I wonder if the Skimmers are the drones to their queen (the Harbinger). The others that Atriox frees at the end of the game are other "queens." This in essence would make them an "anti-flood."
Interesting idea. It would explain why Cortana was on Zeta Halo and looking for the Endless, perhaps, to bring that whole race under her command. Would also explain why the Warden Eternal wasn't "destroyed" by the firing of the Halos hundreds of years ago.
@@Degeneratesociety83 The Warden being tied to the Domain could also explain why it still existed after the Halos were fired. The rings apparently destroy not just life but also neural physics creations made by the precursors. By the Warden's connection to the Domain, it managed to survive with him.
I don't think they are "immune" to the Halos, since it's hinted heavily that they can time travel I'll say they just jumped to a time after the Halos fired.
The thing is that the Halos don't just target the nervous system, they target neural physics itself. Which means the endless have to somehow not use neural physics.
This was my guess as well. It would be wicked if didact came back to actually help get this enemy out of the way because it's a threat to his race possibly now that it's out. Kind of like an enemy of my enemy is a friend type of deal with chief and didact.
I'm wondering what Atriox wants with the Endless. Maybe they both see a common goal in standing against what they see as oppressive forces (Atriox seeing the Covenant and UNSC as oppressive forces and the Endless being oppressed by the Forerunners). That, and Atriox could see them giving their advanced technology and capabilities to benefit the Banished as well. A mutual agreement.
Perhaps the endless were in a similar way as humans. Another race to be tested for the mantle and found lacking. Forerunners, serving the precursors created to destroy the endless as the flood destroyed the forerunners. Forerunners captured what they could to learn from them.
My theory is that the Endless were meant to be the final test for humanity: The precursors saying the endless will inherit the mantle, if humanity accepts this and willingly hands over the mantle that means they are worthy and they become the new holder of the mantle. If they refuse than the Endless becomes the new candidate (similarly how the forerunners were the previous candidate before humanity and how they faild their test by trying to elliminate the precursors)
@@HaloCanon so let me get this straight; the Precursors created the Humanity and Forerunners Precursors chose Humanity as the successors as the Mantle, but Forerunners didn't like that, and attempted to destroy both factions in jealousy and anger, starting the Human Forerunner War, and Precursors became simply dust or gas; years later this dust or gas became corrupted, and turned into the Flood, which then attacked the Forerunners and forced them to create and use the Halo's to stop them. Thousands of billions of years later, the Covenant reverse engineer Forerunner tech and see them as gods, but find out the Forerunners had chosen humanity as their successors, and from jealously, started the human Covenant war. But that's something I'm not sure, Foerunners didn't choose Humanity, it was Precursors. Unless, the Foerunners finally set aside their jealously and allowed Humanity to be the chosen ones, which ironicly brought another jealous group into the mix. And during the first firing of halo against the flood, they found out about the Endless and proceeds to lock them away
@@jakeriese4862 Thats generally how I understand it as well. Correct me if I'm wrong as it's been a long time since I've read the books and I haven't been keeping up to date on lore - but I do believe the Forerunners killed the Precursors because they learned the fact that the Precursors wanted to erase the Forerunners from existence. The Precursors grew tired of their creation and wanted to see if species like Humans and San Shyuum were worthy, and the Forerunners revolted upon that discovery. In the Precursors absence, Forerunners assumed the Mantle. And the Precursors return doesn't go quite as planned when their dust is discovered and traded throughout the galaxy for its desirable effects on living organisms (ancient human dogs as an example) and said organisms/beings turned into the flood over time. When the flood is discovered, Humanity took it upon themselves to stop the infestation by killing worlds before the flood could consume them.
@@jakeriese4862 Ultimately the flood was Humanity's test for the Mantle, and they were doing great! Even recruiting other species to assist in their efforts. However the Forerunners saw this as a threat to their "mantle" and an act of war. So the Forerunners cracked down on the galaxy, isolated the San Shyuum and devolved the Humans who were weakened from fighting the flood. The Forerunners, left to fight this unrelenting enemy alone, copied Humanity's idea on a greater scale and you know the rest there. As for the Covenant, the Prophets knew that their alliance would shatter if they discovered Humanity were the ancient relics that the luminaries (A.I) they possessed were showing on all the planets. So they decided it was for the best to eliminate Humanity before word got out, even though over time they discovered Humanity was different due to the ability to activate Forerunner artifacts.
@@jakeriese4862 The Endless seem to be an entirely new concept, never mentioned in any of the lore. There is one piece we never got an answer for however, a mysterious ship crashed on Installation 04A (The ring from Combat Evolved) with unidentified beings who 343 Guilty Spark wanted to meet but I think they perished in the crash. Now that I think of it though, they wouldn't have been the Endless as this crash happened after the Forerunners demise. The Endless would have already been locked away. Here's hoping future content on Zeta Halo will give us more answers, maybe even on the Primordial and Mendicant Bias as they used the palace of pain on ancient humans like Chakas and Riser!
Mr cannon man, do you think that the Kig-yar need to be flushed out in halo? Do you think there should be a Kig-yar (skirmisher) main character in some DLC that could help flush the species out and show a side of the halo universe that is almost never shown in halo in both the games and books?
I think all the non-human species (scratch that, all the species, considering that it’s ~500 years of human cultural development) should get way more fleshing out.
@@eskarinakatz7723 yes but the kig-yar have had nothing. That is my point. All the species have had some if not a lot but the kig-yar have had practically nothing
@@ThelVadam7777 it'd be really cool to tag along a kig-yar pirating expedition for a mission or two, get to see some of their culture and native tech, meet figureheads etc. Though honestly each species deserves that attention :D
I was kinda thinking maybe it was a separate precursor faction's answer to the genocide. While some decided to make the flood others decided to make the endless. Originally I was thinking they came from outside the milky way but they are clearly tied to the precursors so I dont think that anymore
Offspring of the timeless one. When Bornstellar accelerated it through time to kill it, it didn't die so much as evolved. Turned to dust. The dust found a nearby planet and reformed, having evolved to manipulate the force that was applied to it in an attempt to kill it. The timeless one may have taken on a different form, but the forerunners knew what it was.
I think the true threat of the Endless is in their name, they are literally Endless. The Harbinger says in the ending boss-fight "We are Legion!" I have a theory that this basically means that the Endless species, like the Skimmers and the Harbinger use multiple bodies, but have 1 mind just like the Flood, or Warden Eternal. This explains why they are such a threat, literally the only way to control them would to be imprison them in Cylixes, as they would just transfer their minds to a different body upon death. Basically, the consciousness of all those Skimmers, and the mind of the Harbinger are alive and well, probably wanting revenge of Chief after Atriox sets them free.
@@itsSteaLy Would this really be that impossible? The Primordeal's body died but its mind continued to live on in 7 seperate proto-graveminds on Installation 07.
Maybe people are looking at this the wrong way when the grand edict said how halo can't destroy them. What if they aren't immune to the rings but just travel to the future a day or 2 to avoid them, I may just be pulling at nothing but with the portal that sent chief to the future and the grand edict saying how he can't let the endless control time there will most likely be time travelling involved
The Precursors created both the Forerunners and Xalanyn around the same time. The Precursors gave the Mantle to the Xalanyn, the Forerunners didn't like that and decided to get rid of the Precursors. The Precursors losing to the Forerunners decided to turn themselves into space dust, or maybe even the flood directly. Becoming one big hive mind as a last ditch effort against the Forerunners. The Forerunners created the Rings to target all sentient life including the Flood to eradicate them. They activated the Rings starting life over for themselves and everything only to find out that the Xalanyn survived the blast of the rings. Fearing of them for they have to power to resist such a powerful weapon, did the only thing they could do and that was imprison them. The Xalanyn of course not knowing of the previous fight between the Forerunner/Precursor went to them for help from something (assuming the flood). The Forerunners have rewritten all of history as they cut off connection to the Domain and made it as if they were the chosen ones. Only for the Harbinger to be released with another plan. One of which Atriox knows of, and probably knows that rest of what happened in the long off past.
Forerunners were exactly how you say (godlike beings from a long time ago) in the original games and lore. They turned out to be huge assholes not worthy of the mantle. Having the precursors fill that role now and the possibility of the endless being created by them for some reason is fascinating to imo. Halo seems to work best when we have a galactic mystery to solve lol
Tbh I just assumed that the moment I heard they survived the Halo Array. They're either a race of synthetic life forms or Precursors. One of these is interesting. The other is REALLY interesting.
I cant make out, how this might work, but beeing synthetic is a valid explaination why they where not effected by Halo. BUT, stepping to cellular level, the Forerunners would have detacted them either beeing machines or having a (synth-)cellstructure that would be effected as any other species.
*spoilers for halo point of light I hope that the operation to rebirth precursor race appears in a halo game. Maybe they sacrifice themselves to destroy the flood forever along with driving the precursor race itself to extinction. Of course it wouldn't happen all in one game. Throughout multiple games these events occur with a conclusion. At least in my opinion it would be a fitting end for both the precursors and the flood. They sacrifice themselves to right the wrongs of their ancestors. What ideas do you have?
I just want a Halo title where the whole thing is Chief vs flood vs endless and I want that in multi aswell damit and I want every species to be all there aswell 🤣🤣
Man I remember asking a question you last video if the endless were created by the precursors as a contingent against the forerunners and was pleasantly surprised to see a video talking about a possible connection .
Technically. Precursors were pretty hands off except when it came to testing species for the Mantle. And creation like I discuss here is more involved than the Precursors typically were.
Please make a video explaining why the unsc infinity was easily destroyed knowing there was tons of spartan 4s on the ship.. and yet MC is still left to defend everything..
In short, being struck simultaneously by four dreadnoughts (after at least a year of constantly fleeing from Cortana and likely doing battle with at least one Guardian), left the Infinity fucked beyond hope so Lasky issued the order to abandon ship and head for the surface of Zeta Halo.
An interesting fact to point out is that for some reason after her speech at the end of the game she turns into straight dust on the ground. I found that detail to be extremely odd considering when most things die their body just stays and decomposes.
I havent gotten there so I cant say myself, but isnt that exactly what the precursors did that eventually formed the flood? Hopefuly humanity doesnt do dog shows anymore or the galaxy is fucked...
I just rewatched it, the harbinger just like floats up and drops. Not sure why I thought she turned to dust. Maybe it was the way the audio sounded. Regardless, dying like that isn’t normal 😂
@@rdowg actually, they turn to dust so that one day they reform themselves however if they they stay dust overtime it will mutate and corrupt. Plus it won't infect anyone if you won't consume it
My theory is that the Endless were the intended Evolution for the Precursors had they not have been corrupted and transformed into the Flood. I think, unbeknownst to the Forerunners/Humans, a population of Precursors had successfully evolved into the Xalanyn and were only discovered after the Halo Array was fired. Having judged the Endless as a threat, the Forerunners decided it was in the Galaxy's best interest to imprison the race within Zeta Halo and erase all mention of them.
Wasn’t it stated that the precursors could pretty much change their physical forms to whatever they desired? The endless or at least the harbinger seems like devolution.
What if the flood weren't actually CORRUPTED precursors....what if the precursors we're always like the flood. Maybe during the last outbreak the flood made the endless like the precursors made humans and forerunners
My personal theory is that the Endless were created by the Precursors to survive the Flood and Halo rings due to the fact that the Forerunners had failed the mantle, and that mankind would not be worthy if the species that initially failed it passed it onto them. So once the Halo rings were fired and the universe rid of life, the Endless could spread across the galaxy and take control, but before anything could be done, they were locked away on Zeta Halo, sour at the Forerunners for hating them for just surviving.
It doesn't make sense for the flood to be an intended outcome of the powder, as the Primordial himself is the source of the information that the powder was corrupted, and he would have no reason to lie about that since he (?) had already made his disdain for the Forerunners known.
WEIRD THOERY: The Endless were created by the Precursors *specifically* to discover time travel. Time travel is a thing that occur randomly and insanely rarely naturally. It turns out time travel is the literal *one thing* the Precursors couldn't figure out. So they created the Endless with a species-wide geas for the need to figure out time travel. Like a literal instinctive need to figure it out. And they did.
If the Precursors who might have created The Endless were on-board with the creation of the Flood, they could’ve predicted the Halo Arrays being created. Knowing that, what if they engineered a race to survive the Halos (maybe by time-travel) that could be infected by the Flood? If the Flood got (time travel based) immunity to the Halo effect, there’s be nothing that could stop it from finishing its plan to wipe out Forerunners and unify all life.
Since it’ just shows as a symbol (and a lot like the banished symbol) I think it’s another species version (possibly a brute descendent) of Spartans. Spartans never die…. the endless…..
i really hope soo… halo 4,5 campaigns are the DEFINITION of trash but this game is sick… after beating it for the 3rd time i just popped in ce cause they have similar vibes
It's fun to remember the Precursors as being Tier 0 godlike entities, but we also have to remember that they've been "primitive and advanced, spacefaring and locked to their worlds". The Precursors can be both godlike and primitive enough to be on equal footing with the races of the galaxy. Even if they are a creation of the Precursors, they could still potentially consider themselves Precursor. For example it's possible the Primordial Gravemind is a Precursor construct, but it still refers to itself as a Precursor.
It'll be interesting what The Endless are. If the Flood can go with space n time. To me.. That's endless? Them being pre flood to me makes sense. What if Zeta Halo was a prison? In which the Forerunners locked them up for being or creating the Flood?
I personally think that they may be a something similar to the Asteromorphs from All Tomorrows. They're a race that fought the Forerunners and while their civilization was pacified, a group of them survived, fled, and bid their time for revenge all while evolving into new and unrecognizable forms. While this group was contained by the Forerunners, they may still be out there. The fact that all creatures of them we see can only move via anti-gravitic devises may even be a reference to the source material and how they could only survive in mico-gravity.
Interesting theory! If the Endless were created as a solution against the flood, however, then why would the Forerunners see them as a threat to "their truth" as said in the legendary ending? Surely they would be able to determine that the Endless' immunity from Halo would make them immune to the Flood. Perhaps the Endless immunity to Halo could conversely be used by the Flood as a defence (and let's not forget about their supposed ability to control time)? Or the Forerunners wanted to hide potential survivors of the Halo array for propaganda purposes?
I hate the Endless. They’re pointless and came out of nowhere. Why couldn’t they just dig into the lore for characters Halo fans actually want to see. Like Mendicant Bias.
What I don't understand, yet: Why are the Endless supposed to be a bigger threat than the Flood? Precursos saw Humanity as worthy to pick up the mantle. And their whole war was against the Foreunner. Flood and Foreunner are defeated, why are they so eager to rise now? Oh and there is also the line in the legendary ending "They believe we are here to help". Help with what? They must have been in some kind of trouble back then... I think, they are something completely new. Otherwise all the intentions seem rather messy 🤔
I think I came to a remarkably similar conclusion, which is a good sign, as I like the direction the lore/plot could be headed. The one piece I wonder about is coincidence, and you've touched on this already. Coincidentally, the precursors, the masters of the known universe get hunted down to extinction by their children the forerunners? No, with this new context of halo infinite and the endless... the precursor dust didn't accidentally degenerate into the flood, it was intentionally designed to do as such. You wouldn't want the forerunner putting two and two together regarding a plan for vengeance. The second that if the forerunner are aware of the precursor plans, the easier they are to foil. This is the long con, the long, well thought-out, space-illuminati plan to return the precursors to their seat of power in the universe. The precursors design the flood to wipe the universe clean, then you want design a set of systems to remove the flood, and return to power. Well the halo arrays are a surprisingly good system for doing this. Oh wait, whats that? there just so happens to coincidentally be a species that can survive the halo array? Really? Awfully convenient, especially if that species were ultimately to serve you... or to have secrets... You suggested perhaps a sub-faction of precursors designed the endless as a countermeasure against the plans of the other precursors. That would require intimate knowledge of the plan. There is a simpler and more likely explanation: The precursors set the whole plan in motion from the start. The flood, the halo arrays, and the method of survival via the creation of the endless species, which coincidentally can survive the halo arrays, and serve to restore the precursors to the galaxy.
In my opinion if you have it backwards. Makes so much more sense England created the precursors. Just as the forerunners usurped precursor it is likely that precursor the endless.
I'm thinking the Endless are an organism that is very similar to the Flood though with drastically different intentions. Possibly created by the Precursors, their goal is to live alongside sentient species in a symbiotic relationship and become part of living time rather than attempt to dominate it. They could be a hivemind and they could have access to the Domain explaining the Gravemond quote. The Cylixes in the ending look like cells to me. There is an oddity with Harbinger where she seems to both be Endless and also separate from them. She is also, for some strange reason, stored in a far lower security area of Zeta Halo. Perhaps the Endless were able to get one of themselves into another species Cylix.
Definitely agree with the overall idea of them being precursor creations if not agreeing with them being flood counter measures. Precursors manipulate neural physics, possible that the endless were an experiment into something born unable to be affected by neural physics. I Think it's likely that if Forerunners and Humans were assistants, that the Endless were also likely to be assistants of a sort. One with a definite bone to pick with the forerunners even before being locked up for being too 'dangerous'
no, the halos were known for pretty much wiping out anything precursor in nature (damaging the domain etc) so it makes no sense that they would be immune to the effects of halo, this is a huge retcon and is just an attempt by 343 to revise the series by shitting all over previously established lore, half of these theories are made by people (not halo canon) who pretty much just read the wiki into halo lore (enough to catch up on everything shown in the games), trust me, I love the new game, but the new lore (backed up by nothing in the books but perhaps a new interpretation of events after the firing of the rings) and the already questionable decisions made by developers of the newly announced show, show that 343 will pretty much do a Disney with halo lore, they'll take whats established and bend it to whatever makes it marketable, cause that's what the endless are, an attempt to revive halos marketability.
I suspect much like the Forerunners two or more factions amongst Precursors had varying opinions on how to handle the situation. Half decided to turn into dust the other into AI we know as the Endless. We know what happened to the corrupted dust. Only thing worse than the Flood are the Endless and Flood working together.
I think halo ring couldn’t harmed endless that’s why forerunners trapped them and they try to wipe out any signs off this spices existing, banished accidentally awakes harbinger and make a deal with harbinger
Perhaps different factions of Precursors had different species they believed should inherit the Mantle. Some may have sided with the Forerunners (explaining how the Forerunners got the weapons to kill Precursors), some may have sided with humanity (culminating in the Flood trying to ensure humanity inherited the Mantle in the Forerunner-Flood War), and some championing the Endless.
So to throw out ideas when you fight the harbinger she starts a connection that is sentient, and is of a kind of golden yellow haze. Sounds familiar, probably related to neural physics of the precursors. Despondent pyre's husk was separated with the same energy we see in that fight which obviously shows that what she is using has physical properties, which is why I came to the conclusion she is of precursor origin. Precursors either taught these guys neural physics, created them or even devolved into them. It wouldn't be out of the realm of possibilities for them to devolve their own species if the forerunners could do it, precursors did turn themselves to dust after all.
I get you're looking into everything you can to try and find an answer as to why the endless wouldn't die to the rings but I think you looked to hard, they can clearly control time/time travel as both stated in the audio logs, but also with the ending having atriox in the past. They wouldn't die to the rings because they can just jump in time long enough for the rings to be done firing.
So this isn’t the most bullet proof theory, but whenever we theorize I try to use existing pieces of info to introduce new possibilities as opposed to existing ones. What if, the forerunners lie is that there is only one way to destroy the flood? Or rather survive it at least? What if the endless knew this and the forerunners essentially trapped them cause they did not want to be dethroned as the protectors of the galaxy, or at least de valued. What if the mantle doesn’t even really exist? We know the forerunners didn’t want to lose their power. What better way to essentially leave your mark on the galaxy than create galactic doctrine for all eternity and establish a hierarchy based around your science? The endless existence was a direct contrast to the forerunners position as protectors of the galaxy. If the flood isn’t a threat than the halo rings are useless and the mantle isn’t necessary, and the forerunners don’t really have an excuse for all the awful things they were doing? So they locked away the endless. Now all that’s left according to their narrative is there’s no way to survive the flood, only one way to stop them, and they guarantee, with the idea of the mantle, that their law shall be obeyed even after they’re gone. And if all else fails, they preserved flood forms on zeta halo. Maybe if needed, to start another infection. In case the universe “needs” their rings again? Like I said not bullet proof but this is a fun conspiracy theory
That gravemind line is the main reason i think theyre some form of a precursor. Though for hoe they can survive a halo, bets on them being able to skip ahead of the firing. Evident in how the harbinger seemingly teleports around everywhere. Also w the ending indirectly, how chief got teleported 3days ahead on the other side of the ring
I remember it being said that the precursors could take on many different forms and I think that the Endless are one form of precursors that have immunity to the Halo's. I think there was another theory that the Endless are a species that served the precursors.
Willing to bet the Endless are immune to the flood for the same reason they can resist the Halo. Oops he mentioned it later lol... Great minds. ETA: They may be from a different galaxy or even dimension.
Makes a lot of sense. If true, it could be interesting to see humanity (the reclaimers) battle a new threat, the endless, who were made to exact revenge on forerunners by precursors.
If they are related to the precursors that would also mean they are related to the flood and by extension they could mabye control or communicate to the flood through neural physics
The endless could be the true inheritors of the mantle of responsibility while humans were created by forerunners to oppose that idea and to make humans the inheritors instead.
I really hope the endless will be a fantastic very interesting mysterious enemy and hope they won't be a crappy taken or Hive rip off from destiny especially flood I really want these guys to be completely their own species and thing and I can't wait to learn more about them that makes them so more worse than the flood and perhaps they are a similar species to the parasite itself like forerunners and humans but still completely different and regardless if they are a different group of all precursors or precursor related.
What if the endless are a 3rd faction legitimately meant to have the mantle they aren't precursors but they taught the endless of the forerunners sins and fall of humanity there previous predecessors during the time of the precursor war
i know very little about the halo lore, but I understand that the flood were formed by the precursors who turned into a sort of dust that would eventually reform. The primordial was killed in a reverse stasis chamber that caused it to experience billions of years in a few seconds. Could the endless be what the remains of the primordial became? could it have turned its body into that same dust while in the accelerated timestream, making it so that the dust which had a lifespan based in the acceleration when thrown into the normal flow of time caused their lifespan to essentially be frozen due to the vast difference between the two, hence giving them the name endless?
This isn’t exactly to about the video you posted but has anyone else noticed how the CYLIXS in the silent auditorium during the harbinger fight aren’t like any of the others we’ve seen throughout the game? Maybe I’m wrong, but, could these be forerunners? Couldn’t be the endless…could it?
Oooo, the idea they’re immune to flood could mean so much. If anything, if could mean Halo-and the genecide of the galaxy-was not *the last option* Can you imagine the guilt?
The main question I still have is what is Atriox’s motivation in freeing the Endless? Is it just to have them destroy humanity since Cortana destroyed Doisac? What is to keep the Endless from also destroying the Banished? (“For a moment of safety I unleashed damnation on the stars.”) the Banished are all about not having another master, and it seems very clear to me that they’d wind up being subservient to a race as advanced as that of the Harbinger?
“For a moment of safety I unleashed damnation on the stars.” is cortana's memory from events from halo 3 when she was interrogated by the gravemind (possibly she's telling earth's location to the flood). I agree that atriox motivation is unclear. It might be worth mentioning that AFAIK, we don't know WHEN Doisac was destroyed. Is it before Atriox arrived/flees the ark? or is it after? The book shadows of reach mentions that atriox heads immediately (after fleeing the ark) to zeta halo to look for something. But in the game (infinite), he is implied to not knowing what it is and only finds out later. (conversation with cortana).
What difficulty are you playing on? I play normal and you can barely kill a grunt with one sword slash. YOu have to use half the weapon just to kill two brutes.
The only thing that draws any kind of doubt on this is that the Precursors had intended on humanity, not the Forerunners, to be the keepers of the Mantle and Harbinger's actions don't line up with that want/intention as she very clearly by the end of HI wants to wipe out humanity. There is an early line where she tries to tell Chief that they are not enemies. But she also tells him that he, and I'm assuming she means humanity, is not the future, and even refers to him as Reclaimer, so she very clearly knows of humanity's role in all this. So, if she is of Precursor origin, either the Precursors made them to replace humanity as the bearers of the Mantle, or they too, like the Forerunners, turned against their creators while keeping the Precursor's hatred for the Forerunners. Whatever the case may be, I can't wait to see what 343i does with them.
Also keep in mind that the Master Builder fired off Zeta Halo at Charum Hakkor and when they checked to see if all life was gone, the only survivor was... bum bum BUUUM! The Primordial. IF you look at some of the artwork out there on the Precursors and in particular, the Primordial, his head and face have similarities to Harbinger. Her helmet resembles his head, and her face is similar to his as well. So, I think this adds more weight to the argument of The Endless having Precursor origins.
I would have loved of they were a silicon base life form, instead of carbon. The Forerunners not cataloguing something so alien as rock life would explain how they missed them first and the Flood that didn't feed off of them during the years post-firing, and also would be cool to see something this different. But I think they're carbon based considering how they look in game.
Good take! They look aquatic or insectoid in nature. I'm really stoked to see how they are defined officially
@@brandicunningham7243 I was thinking aquatic as well. The face especially gives the vibe of a squid and the movement of the harbinger looks like "swimming" through the air.
I really want to see what they could have possibly needed help with if they have some control over time, and the mystery of their race is definitely something that has me wanting more.
Most of the halo lore breaks down superhuman feats or weapons to advanced science, but the teleporting around the room to drop homing bombs makes me think they have some sort of ability to manipulate slip space on a personal level. Which would also mean they might not be immune to the flood but could "warp" past the blast of the halo and then be starving as their food supply was killed off like the floods? So interested to see how they develop.
It would be impossible to know what Precursors look like. We have an image of the Primordial on Zeta Halo, sure, and the image from Warfleet. However, the Precursors were constantly evolving and also changing their form. So, there is no definitive appearance for them.
They’re not “the thing” dude lol.
@@pokris3385 No, Precursors had in the lore “trans-sentient” levels of technological advancement as denoted by the forerunners and had the ability to create corporeal and noncorporeal structures as well as alter their forms at will. Think of them as being able to shape the fabric of reality to their will, why not change the way they look from time to time?
@@pokris3385 "The Thing" *WISHES* it could be precursor. It doesn't even compare to the Flood's hivemind.
I think apart from the idea that they descended from Precursors somehow (being able to change form at will, making themselves Halo resistant), it seems almost more likely that it's a client race created by the Precursors to bring them back. That's the only way they could live up to being worse than the Flood. Think about it, a race that can resist the Halo and is working on controlling time, what if they can reverse entropy in a small field or something like that avoiding time travel shenanigans, turn dust back into the Primordial...The Endless thought the Forerunners were there to help them, so they seem too innocent to be the Precursors directly, but could be a race working to bring back their masters.
Also consider that because the primordial controls the flood via neural physics, the endless could do the same and potentially put the flood at a more dangerous level. With this in mind the local flood in an area could skip the feral stage and immediately start at the coordinated stage and depending on how far they can go with neural physics, they could transfer some of that space magic to flood forms making them more deadly.
Didn’t think about that, but definitely makes sense! I think this theory is more likely than what I believed before, that being that the endless are precursors or subspecies of precursor. I would much prefer your rout as well, keep the precursors a mystery for the most part. Don’t do what they did to the forerunners
I think the endless would be the first creation of the precursors. The precursors realized they made something that could challenge their power. So they weakened it into humans. Otherwise I could fucking teleport like the endless.
Interesting theory, I think even if they aren’t precursors themselves, they’re absolutely tied to them in some significant way and this is definitely a good possibility. One thing people keep missing is that by being immune to the Halo rings, that also means that they’re immune to the flood which you mentioned and I think that’s gonna be incredibly important going forward.
I think they may weaponize the flood due to their immunity. Infect most life, then activate the halos without repercussion to their own species
@@edquad2765 Why wouldn't they just activate the halos and cut out the middle man?
@@kpgIRA true lol
A natural immunity to the rings does not mean they are immune to the flood
@@alanmoore5881 I’d argue it’s highly likely, one is a super weapon that targets nervous systems and the other is a parasite that takes control of a hosts nervous system - it doesn’t need to be overly complex, IMO
I think they aren't immune to the Halos. I think they're extragalactic and only showed up after the Halos were fired. That'd also explain why they weren't cataloged
I kinda like the idea of of the Harbinger and her species having a nervous system similar to starfish and jellyfish. Gives me the idea that they'd be dual respiratory... being able to breathe on land and in the water. But the only downside I can think of is that they don't appear to have gills.
Plus it could be the start of aquatic sapient species existing in the Halo universe
Unless the mandible like mouth functions as it but the Harbinger was also covered in armor perhaps there are gills elsewhere. Or the suit provides something.
"you big stupid jellyfish"
@@noblesix4241 lol I swear this is something I've heard off of the original mass effect game. 😂
@@CRIMSON-FLAME1 It is. Its something if you choose the racist asshole path I think.
@@jakespacepiratee3740 lol that line just makes me laugh. But maybe just maybe I have something against that one particular jellyfish.
From the moment I heard the Gravemind quote, it has been stuck in my head that they're in some way related to the Precursor's. Unlike many others, I believed the same as you from the start: That they're not Precursors themselves, but rather related in some way. Either as a species that directly served the Precursor's unbeknownst to the Forerunners, or a Precursor creation that went unnoticed until they survived the Halo array and were subsequently discovered. I'm not entirely sure how much I agree with them being purposefully intended as a Flood countermeasure, but I can't deny the plausibility of that either. I do believe however that the Xalanyn bore no ill will towards the Forerunners until they were imprisoned for the crime of survival, so they don't strike me as a Precursor revenge plot either. Regardless, I feel like this is probably the best way to introduce the Precursor's to people who've only played the games. Precursor's themselves feel like they would be insurmountable as enemies, and defeating literal gods just doesn't feel right for Halo. But defeating a direct creation of theirs, and learning tidbits about them in the process, wouldn't be so bad and allows them to remain largely mysterious.
If anything, this is solidifying my own theory that the endless are precursor-evolutions. As they devolved into the flood they could have devolved into the endless too. Are they precursor? No. But similar to how Greg bear implies humanity and ancient forerunners share some mild common ancestry, the endless and flood may as well
Kind of unrelated but, I just want that mystery ship that crashed on installation 04 in the CEA terminals that guilty spark entombed to be brought up in some form again. I’m currently banking on the endless having something to do with that.
If this is true I want a future line from a Marine under fire. "We're getting asses kicked by overgrown Jellyfish/Starfish!"
It's only assumption right now that immunity to the Halo means immunity to the Flood, if you think about it the Flood gaining a Halo resistant race in their ranks would have been an even more nightmare scenario for the Forerunners and maybe why they were scared shitless of the Endless who seemed innocent when they met, thinking the Forerunners had come to help
I think the Precursors as a race should remain enigmatic. It’s good for a franchise to encourage fan theories based on its lore. Hence in 40K the Lost Primarches are still unnamed. Yoda’s homeworld and species have never been identified, despite Star Wars being over 40 years old.
Also, the Liberian made the Master Chief immune [or at least resistant] to the composer by altering some of his DNA. Perhaps the Precursors genetically engineered the Endless to not have neural physics. Also are the Endless, one species that is polymorphic or a collection of related species?
The artifacts in campaign state that the worst thing for the Forerunners is not the Flood, its loosing their power. The threat of loosing their rule over the galaxy is inherent but might not be exclusive to the Flood. I think they are related in some way to the precurosors, without being literal precursors.
Interesting that some of the concept art has 4 arms like the primordial. Maybe they're akin to prometheans being made by the Forerunner, albeit to fight something besides flood.
6:09 Maybe they lack a central nervous system like Durge and his species in Star Wars Legends (although they still had nerve clusters distributed throughout their bodies so perhaps they'd still be susceptible to the Halo Array).
What you describe is basically the nerve net used by Jellyfish, if I'm understanding correctly.
I'm still willing to put money down that the Warden Eternal is a composed member of the Endless. While I'm saying this based on his head's resemblance to the Harbinger's helmet, I don't think this was a coincidence.
Maybe he was once a high ranking member or representative of the Endless that championed his people against the Forerunners' oppression, but they later captured and punished him to serve as an eternal protector to the Forerunners' control of the Domain as well as setting an example to all the other Endless that defied them.
If he is, then this might explain what the Endless's unique quality is, as the Warden Eternal has "one mind, but a few million bodies" what if the same goes for the organic Endless? A massive hive-mind controlling multiple bodies with a single consciousness?
@@jakespacepiratee3740 I wasn't sure about the Endless having a hive mind mentality, but now that I think of it, I wonder if the Skimmers are the drones to their queen (the Harbinger). The others that Atriox frees at the end of the game are other "queens." This in essence would make them an "anti-flood."
Interesting idea. It would explain why Cortana was on Zeta Halo and looking for the Endless, perhaps, to bring that whole race under her command. Would also explain why the Warden Eternal wasn't "destroyed" by the firing of the Halos hundreds of years ago.
@@Degeneratesociety83 The Warden being tied to the Domain could also explain why it still existed after the Halos were fired. The rings apparently destroy not just life but also neural physics creations made by the precursors. By the Warden's connection to the Domain, it managed to survive with him.
I don't think they are "immune" to the Halos, since it's hinted heavily that they can time travel I'll say they just jumped to a time after the Halos fired.
The thing is that the Halos don't just target the nervous system, they target neural physics itself. Which means the endless have to somehow not use neural physics.
Neural physics wasn't specifically targeted by the halo array. It was a by product that it did. Neural physics was a sort of precursor science.
This is the first theory I've seen about the Endless that I think is actually really solid and would love to see it come true
Endless could be a faction or organization of Precursor. Or Endless/Xalayn could be descendants of Precursors.
This was my guess as well. It would be wicked if didact came back to actually help get this enemy out of the way because it's a threat to his race possibly now that it's out.
Kind of like an enemy of my enemy is a friend type of deal with chief and didact.
@@CRIMSON-FLAME1 welp, he's kinda like super dead in the comic.
@@azrieldalusong5042 Nah, just composed. Hes one with the Domain now.
I'm wondering what Atriox wants with the Endless. Maybe they both see a common goal in standing against what they see as oppressive forces (Atriox seeing the Covenant and UNSC as oppressive forces and the Endless being oppressed by the Forerunners). That, and Atriox could see them giving their advanced technology and capabilities to benefit the Banished as well. A mutual agreement.
Perhaps the endless were in a similar way as humans. Another race to be tested for the mantle and found lacking. Forerunners, serving the precursors created to destroy the endless as the flood destroyed the forerunners. Forerunners captured what they could to learn from them.
My theory is that the Endless were meant to be the final test for humanity: The precursors saying the endless will inherit the mantle, if humanity accepts this and willingly hands over the mantle that means they are worthy and they become the new holder of the mantle. If they refuse than the Endless becomes the new candidate (similarly how the forerunners were the previous candidate before humanity and how they faild their test by trying to elliminate the precursors)
Interesting idea!
@@HaloCanon so let me get this straight; the Precursors created the Humanity and Forerunners
Precursors chose Humanity as the successors as the Mantle, but Forerunners didn't like that, and attempted to destroy both factions in jealousy and anger, starting the Human Forerunner War, and Precursors became simply dust or gas; years later this dust or gas became corrupted, and turned into the Flood, which then attacked the Forerunners and forced them to create and use the Halo's to stop them.
Thousands of billions of years later, the Covenant reverse engineer Forerunner tech and see them as gods, but find out the Forerunners had chosen humanity as their successors, and from jealously, started the human Covenant war. But that's something I'm not sure, Foerunners didn't choose Humanity, it was Precursors. Unless, the Foerunners finally set aside their jealously and allowed Humanity to be the chosen ones, which ironicly brought another jealous group into the mix. And during the first firing of halo against the flood, they found out about the Endless and proceeds to lock them away
@@jakeriese4862 Thats generally how I understand it as well. Correct me if I'm wrong as it's been a long time since I've read the books and I haven't been keeping up to date on lore - but I do believe the Forerunners killed the Precursors because they learned the fact that the Precursors wanted to erase the Forerunners from existence. The Precursors grew tired of their creation and wanted to see if species like Humans and San Shyuum were worthy, and the Forerunners revolted upon that discovery. In the Precursors absence, Forerunners assumed the Mantle. And the Precursors return doesn't go quite as planned when their dust is discovered and traded throughout the galaxy for its desirable effects on living organisms (ancient human dogs as an example) and said organisms/beings turned into the flood over time. When the flood is discovered, Humanity took it upon themselves to stop the infestation by killing worlds before the flood could consume them.
@@jakeriese4862 Ultimately the flood was Humanity's test for the Mantle, and they were doing great! Even recruiting other species to assist in their efforts. However the Forerunners saw this as a threat to their "mantle" and an act of war. So the Forerunners cracked down on the galaxy, isolated the San Shyuum and devolved the Humans who were weakened from fighting the flood. The Forerunners, left to fight this unrelenting enemy alone, copied Humanity's idea on a greater scale and you know the rest there. As for the Covenant, the Prophets knew that their alliance would shatter if they discovered Humanity were the ancient relics that the luminaries (A.I) they possessed were showing on all the planets. So they decided it was for the best to eliminate Humanity before word got out, even though over time they discovered Humanity was different due to the ability to activate Forerunner artifacts.
@@jakeriese4862 The Endless seem to be an entirely new concept, never mentioned in any of the lore. There is one piece we never got an answer for however, a mysterious ship crashed on Installation 04A (The ring from Combat Evolved) with unidentified beings who 343 Guilty Spark wanted to meet but I think they perished in the crash. Now that I think of it though, they wouldn't have been the Endless as this crash happened after the Forerunners demise. The Endless would have already been locked away. Here's hoping future content on Zeta Halo will give us more answers, maybe even on the Primordial and Mendicant Bias as they used the palace of pain on ancient humans like Chakas and Riser!
Mr cannon man, do you think that the Kig-yar need to be flushed out in halo? Do you think there should be a Kig-yar (skirmisher) main character in some DLC that could help flush the species out and show a side of the halo universe that is almost never shown in halo in both the games and books?
I think all the non-human species (scratch that, all the species, considering that it’s ~500 years of human cultural development) should get way more fleshing out.
@@eskarinakatz7723 yes but the kig-yar have had nothing. That is my point. All the species have had some if not a lot but the kig-yar have had practically nothing
@@ThelVadam7777 it'd be really cool to tag along a kig-yar pirating expedition for a mission or two, get to see some of their culture and native tech, meet figureheads etc. Though honestly each species deserves that attention :D
I was kinda thinking maybe it was a separate precursor faction's answer to the genocide. While some decided to make the flood others decided to make the endless. Originally I was thinking they came from outside the milky way but they are clearly tied to the precursors so I dont think that anymore
Offspring of the timeless one. When Bornstellar accelerated it through time to kill it, it didn't die so much as evolved. Turned to dust. The dust found a nearby planet and reformed, having evolved to manipulate the force that was applied to it in an attempt to kill it. The timeless one may have taken on a different form, but the forerunners knew what it was.
I think the true threat of the Endless is in their name, they are literally Endless. The Harbinger says in the ending boss-fight "We are Legion!" I have a theory that this basically means that the Endless species, like the Skimmers and the Harbinger use multiple bodies, but have 1 mind just like the Flood, or Warden Eternal. This explains why they are such a threat, literally the only way to control them would to be imprison them in Cylixes, as they would just transfer their minds to a different body upon death.
Basically, the consciousness of all those Skimmers, and the mind of the Harbinger are alive and well, probably wanting revenge of Chief after Atriox sets them free.
no
@@itsSteaLy Would this really be that impossible? The Primordeal's body died but its mind continued to live on in 7 seperate proto-graveminds on Installation 07.
@@jakespacepiratee3740 no def not impossible was just trolling tbh
Maybe people are looking at this the wrong way when the grand edict said how halo can't destroy them. What if they aren't immune to the rings but just travel to the future a day or 2 to avoid them, I may just be pulling at nothing but with the portal that sent chief to the future and the grand edict saying how he can't let the endless control time there will most likely be time travelling involved
I hadn’t considered Chief’s time skip but that confirms it to me
The Precursors created both the Forerunners and Xalanyn around the same time. The Precursors gave the Mantle to the Xalanyn, the Forerunners didn't like that and decided to get rid of the Precursors. The Precursors losing to the Forerunners decided to turn themselves into space dust, or maybe even the flood directly. Becoming one big hive mind as a last ditch effort against the Forerunners. The Forerunners created the Rings to target all sentient life including the Flood to eradicate them. They activated the Rings starting life over for themselves and everything only to find out that the Xalanyn survived the blast of the rings. Fearing of them for they have to power to resist such a powerful weapon, did the only thing they could do and that was imprison them. The Xalanyn of course not knowing of the previous fight between the Forerunner/Precursor went to them for help from something (assuming the flood). The Forerunners have rewritten all of history as they cut off connection to the Domain and made it as if they were the chosen ones. Only for the Harbinger to be released with another plan. One of which Atriox knows of, and probably knows that rest of what happened in the long off past.
Forerunners were exactly how you say (godlike beings from a long time ago) in the original games and lore. They turned out to be huge assholes not worthy of the mantle. Having the precursors fill that role now and the possibility of the endless being created by them for some reason is fascinating to imo. Halo seems to work best when we have a galactic mystery to solve lol
Tbh I just assumed that the moment I heard they survived the Halo Array. They're either a race of synthetic life forms or Precursors. One of these is interesting. The other is REALLY interesting.
I cant make out, how this might work, but beeing synthetic is a valid explaination why they where not effected by Halo.
BUT, stepping to cellular level, the Forerunners would have detacted them either beeing machines or having a (synth-)cellstructure that would be effected as any other species.
@@La_Chn maybe they did detect it and what information we've learned hasn't mentioned that fact yet.
*spoilers for halo point of light
I hope that the operation to rebirth precursor race appears in a halo game.
Maybe they sacrifice themselves to destroy the flood forever along with driving the precursor race itself to extinction. Of course it wouldn't happen all in one game. Throughout multiple games these events occur with a conclusion. At least in my opinion it would be a fitting end for both the precursors and the flood.
They sacrifice themselves to right the wrongs of their ancestors.
What ideas do you have?
Interesting thoughts about the concept art of the Harbinger/her race there. I saw that the other day and was thinking that exact same thing. . . 🤔
Still not convinced the Harbinger is an "Endless" or that all Endless are like the Harbinger.
I just want a Halo title where the whole thing is Chief vs flood vs endless and I want that in multi aswell damit and I want every species to be all there aswell 🤣🤣
Man I remember asking a question you last video if the endless were created by the precursors as a contingent against the forerunners and was pleasantly surprised to see a video talking about a possible connection .
The thumbnail question be like “ah yes the floor here is made out of floor”
Everyone was created by the precursors that was kind of a major thing.
Technically. Precursors were pretty hands off except when it came to testing species for the Mantle. And creation like I discuss here is more involved than the Precursors typically were.
Please make a video explaining why the unsc infinity was easily destroyed knowing there was tons of spartan 4s on the ship.. and yet MC is still left to defend everything..
In short, being struck simultaneously by four dreadnoughts (after at least a year of constantly fleeing from Cortana and likely doing battle with at least one Guardian), left the Infinity fucked beyond hope so Lasky issued the order to abandon ship and head for the surface of Zeta Halo.
An interesting fact to point out is that for some reason after her speech at the end of the game she turns into straight dust on the ground. I found that detail to be extremely odd considering when most things die their body just stays and decomposes.
I havent gotten there so I cant say myself, but isnt that exactly what the precursors did that eventually formed the flood? Hopefuly humanity doesnt do dog shows anymore or the galaxy is fucked...
I'll have to rewatch the ending, I don't recall her turning to dust. That would be rather interesting!
I just rewatched it, the harbinger just like floats up and drops. Not sure why I thought she turned to dust. Maybe it was the way the audio sounded. Regardless, dying like that isn’t normal 😂
@@rdowg actually, they turn to dust so that one day they reform themselves however if they they stay dust overtime it will mutate and corrupt. Plus it won't infect anyone if you won't consume it
Looked like the harbinger said welcome back. Perfect timing
Exactly what I was going for!
My theory is that the Endless were the intended Evolution for the Precursors had they not have been corrupted and transformed into the Flood.
I think, unbeknownst to the Forerunners/Humans, a population of Precursors had successfully evolved into the Xalanyn and were only discovered after the Halo Array was fired.
Having judged the Endless as a threat, the Forerunners decided it was in the Galaxy's best interest to imprison the race within Zeta Halo and erase all mention of them.
Yeah this is what I've been thinking as well.
Wasn’t it stated that the precursors could pretty much change their physical forms to whatever they desired? The endless or at least the harbinger seems like devolution.
o hai
What if the flood weren't actually CORRUPTED precursors....what if the precursors we're always like the flood. Maybe during the last outbreak the flood made the endless like the precursors made humans and forerunners
My personal theory is that the Endless were created by the Precursors to survive the Flood and Halo rings due to the fact that the Forerunners had failed the mantle, and that mankind would not be worthy if the species that initially failed it passed it onto them. So once the Halo rings were fired and the universe rid of life, the Endless could spread across the galaxy and take control, but before anything could be done, they were locked away on Zeta Halo, sour at the Forerunners for hating them for just surviving.
"Fuck me it's 3 in the morning I gotta get some sleep"
*"Are the Endless of Precursor origin? Halo lore and THEORIES".*
"Well, here we go again"
That honestly be the coolest thing.
It doesn't make sense for the flood to be an intended outcome of the powder, as the Primordial himself is the source of the information that the powder was corrupted, and he would have no reason to lie about that since he (?) had already made his disdain for the Forerunners known.
WEIRD THOERY: The Endless were created by the Precursors *specifically* to discover time travel. Time travel is a thing that occur randomly and insanely rarely naturally. It turns out time travel is the literal *one thing* the Precursors couldn't figure out. So they created the Endless with a species-wide geas for the need to figure out time travel. Like a literal instinctive need to figure it out.
And they did.
If the Precursors who might have created The Endless were on-board with the creation of the Flood, they could’ve predicted the Halo Arrays being created. Knowing that, what if they engineered a race to survive the Halos (maybe by time-travel) that could be infected by the Flood? If the Flood got (time travel based) immunity to the Halo effect, there’s be nothing that could stop it from finishing its plan to wipe out Forerunners and unify all life.
Since it’ just shows as a symbol (and a lot like the banished symbol) I think it’s another species version (possibly a brute descendent) of Spartans. Spartans never die…. the endless…..
They are it's obvious
They might be a faction used to house the conciousness of some the precursors.
i really hope soo… halo 4,5 campaigns are the DEFINITION of trash but this game is sick… after beating it for the 3rd time i just popped in ce cause they have similar vibes
It's fun to remember the Precursors as being Tier 0 godlike entities, but we also have to remember that they've been "primitive and advanced, spacefaring and locked to their worlds". The Precursors can be both godlike and primitive enough to be on equal footing with the races of the galaxy. Even if they are a creation of the Precursors, they could still potentially consider themselves Precursor. For example it's possible the Primordial Gravemind is a Precursor construct, but it still refers to itself as a Precursor.
It'll be interesting what The Endless are. If the Flood can go with space n time. To me.. That's endless? Them being pre flood to me makes sense.
What if Zeta Halo was a prison? In which the Forerunners locked them up for being or creating the Flood?
Maybe a dumb question, but why does the harbinger have a different cylix from the endless if they're the same species?
what i want to know is your thoughts on this crazy theory i had
Could Adjutant Resolution be Offensive Bias in disguise?
I personally think that they may be a something similar to the Asteromorphs from All Tomorrows. They're a race that fought the Forerunners and while their civilization was pacified, a group of them survived, fled, and bid their time for revenge all while evolving into new and unrecognizable forms. While this group was contained by the Forerunners, they may still be out there.
The fact that all creatures of them we see can only move via anti-gravitic devises may even be a reference to the source material and how they could only survive in mico-gravity.
Interesting theory! If the Endless were created as a solution against the flood, however, then why would the Forerunners see them as a threat to "their truth" as said in the legendary ending? Surely they would be able to determine that the Endless' immunity from Halo would make them immune to the Flood. Perhaps the Endless immunity to Halo could conversely be used by the Flood as a defence (and let's not forget about their supposed ability to control time)? Or the Forerunners wanted to hide potential survivors of the Halo array for propaganda purposes?
I hate the Endless. They’re pointless and came out of nowhere. Why couldn’t they just dig into the lore for characters Halo fans actually want to see. Like Mendicant Bias.
6:53
"Is this the Harbinger?"
*"NO THIS IS PATRICK"*
What I don't understand, yet: Why are the Endless supposed to be a bigger threat than the Flood?
Precursos saw Humanity as worthy to pick up the mantle. And their whole war was against the Foreunner.
Flood and Foreunner are defeated, why are they so eager to rise now?
Oh and there is also the line in the legendary ending "They believe we are here to help". Help with what? They must have been in some kind of trouble back then...
I think, they are something completely new. Otherwise all the intentions seem rather messy 🤔
I think I came to a remarkably similar conclusion, which is a good sign, as I like the direction the lore/plot could be headed.
The one piece I wonder about is coincidence, and you've touched on this already. Coincidentally, the precursors, the masters of the known universe get hunted down to extinction by their children the forerunners?
No, with this new context of halo infinite and the endless... the precursor dust didn't accidentally degenerate into the flood, it was intentionally designed to do as such. You wouldn't want the forerunner putting two and two together regarding a plan for vengeance. The second that if the forerunner are aware of the precursor plans, the easier they are to foil.
This is the long con, the long, well thought-out, space-illuminati plan to return the precursors to their seat of power in the universe.
The precursors design the flood to wipe the universe clean, then you want design a set of systems to remove the flood, and return to power.
Well the halo arrays are a surprisingly good system for doing this. Oh wait, whats that? there just so happens to coincidentally be a species that can survive the halo array? Really? Awfully convenient, especially if that species were ultimately to serve you... or to have secrets...
You suggested perhaps a sub-faction of precursors designed the endless as a countermeasure against the plans of the other precursors. That would require intimate knowledge of the plan. There is a simpler and more likely explanation: The precursors set the whole plan in motion from the start. The flood, the halo arrays, and the method of survival via the creation of the endless species, which coincidentally can survive the halo arrays, and serve to restore the precursors to the galaxy.
In my opinion if you have it backwards. Makes so much more sense England created the precursors. Just as the forerunners usurped precursor it is likely that precursor the endless.
I cracked the Cylix at the end, nothing to do, stop humiliating yourself
Idk if it's specified in Infinite, or even in the audio logs, but are the Skimmers the same species as the Harbinger?
I'm thinking the Endless are an organism that is very similar to the Flood though with drastically different intentions. Possibly created by the Precursors, their goal is to live alongside sentient species in a symbiotic relationship and become part of living time rather than attempt to dominate it. They could be a hivemind and they could have access to the Domain explaining the Gravemond quote. The Cylixes in the ending look like cells to me. There is an oddity with Harbinger where she seems to both be Endless and also separate from them. She is also, for some strange reason, stored in a far lower security area of Zeta Halo. Perhaps the Endless were able to get one of themselves into another species Cylix.
Definitely agree with the overall idea of them being precursor creations if not agreeing with them being flood counter measures. Precursors manipulate neural physics, possible that the endless were an experiment into something born unable to be affected by neural physics. I Think it's likely that if Forerunners and Humans were assistants, that the Endless were also likely to be assistants of a sort. One with a definite bone to pick with the forerunners even before being locked up for being too 'dangerous'
no, the halos were known for pretty much wiping out anything precursor in nature (damaging the domain etc) so it makes no sense that they would be immune to the effects of halo, this is a huge retcon and is just an attempt by 343 to revise the series by shitting all over previously established lore, half of these theories are made by people (not halo canon) who pretty much just read the wiki into halo lore (enough to catch up on everything shown in the games), trust me, I love the new game, but the new lore (backed up by nothing in the books but perhaps a new interpretation of events after the firing of the rings) and the already questionable decisions made by developers of the newly announced show, show that 343 will pretty much do a Disney with halo lore, they'll take whats established and bend it to whatever makes it marketable, cause that's what the endless are, an attempt to revive halos marketability.
I suspect much like the Forerunners two or more factions amongst Precursors had varying opinions on how to handle the situation. Half decided to turn into dust the other into AI we know as the Endless. We know what happened to the corrupted dust. Only thing worse than the Flood are the Endless and Flood working together.
I think halo ring couldn’t harmed endless that’s why forerunners trapped them and they try to wipe out any signs off this spices existing, banished accidentally awakes harbinger and make a deal with harbinger
Perhaps different factions of Precursors had different species they believed should inherit the Mantle. Some may have sided with the Forerunners (explaining how the Forerunners got the weapons to kill Precursors), some may have sided with humanity (culminating in the Flood trying to ensure humanity inherited the Mantle in the Forerunner-Flood War), and some championing the Endless.
So to throw out ideas when you fight the harbinger she starts a connection that is sentient, and is of a kind of golden yellow haze. Sounds familiar, probably related to neural physics of the precursors.
Despondent pyre's husk was separated with the same energy we see in that fight which obviously shows that what she is using has physical properties, which is why I came to the conclusion she is of precursor origin.
Precursors either taught these guys neural physics, created them or even devolved into them.
It wouldn't be out of the realm of possibilities for them to devolve their own species if the forerunners could do it, precursors did turn themselves to dust after all.
I get you're looking into everything you can to try and find an answer as to why the endless wouldn't die to the rings but I think you looked to hard, they can clearly control time/time travel as both stated in the audio logs, but also with the ending having atriox in the past. They wouldn't die to the rings because they can just jump in time long enough for the rings to be done firing.
So this isn’t the most bullet proof theory, but whenever we theorize I try to use existing pieces of info to introduce new possibilities as opposed to existing ones.
What if, the forerunners lie is that there is only one way to destroy the flood? Or rather survive it at least? What if the endless knew this and the forerunners essentially trapped them cause they did not want to be dethroned as the protectors of the galaxy, or at least de valued.
What if the mantle doesn’t even really exist? We know the forerunners didn’t want to lose their power. What better way to essentially leave your mark on the galaxy than create galactic doctrine for all eternity and establish a hierarchy based around your science? The endless existence was a direct contrast to the forerunners position as protectors of the galaxy.
If the flood isn’t a threat than the halo rings are useless and the mantle isn’t necessary, and the forerunners don’t really have an excuse for all the awful things they were doing? So they locked away the endless. Now all that’s left according to their narrative is there’s no way to survive the flood, only one way to stop them, and they guarantee, with the idea of the mantle, that their law shall be obeyed even after they’re gone. And if all else fails, they preserved flood forms on zeta halo. Maybe if needed, to start another infection. In case the universe “needs” their rings again?
Like I said not bullet proof but this is a fun conspiracy theory
That gravemind line is the main reason i think theyre some form of a precursor. Though for hoe they can survive a halo, bets on them being able to skip ahead of the firing. Evident in how the harbinger seemingly teleports around everywhere. Also w the ending indirectly, how chief got teleported 3days ahead on the other side of the ring
I remember it being said that the precursors could take on many different forms and I think that the Endless are one form of precursors that have immunity to the Halo's. I think there was another theory that the Endless are a species that served the precursors.
Willing to bet the Endless are immune to the flood for the same reason they can resist the Halo.
Oops he mentioned it later lol...
Great minds.
ETA: They may be from a different galaxy or even dimension.
Makes a lot of sense. If true, it could be interesting to see humanity (the reclaimers) battle a new threat, the endless, who were made to exact revenge on forerunners by precursors.
YOu need several of a species for it to propagate. and not go extinct because of a lack of genetic diversity.
If they are related to the precursors that would also mean they are related to the flood and by extension they could mabye control or communicate to the flood through neural physics
The endless could be the true inheritors of the mantle of responsibility while humans were created by forerunners to oppose that idea and to make humans the inheritors instead.
I really hope the endless will be a fantastic very interesting mysterious enemy and hope they won't be a crappy taken or Hive rip off from destiny especially flood I really want these guys to be completely their own species and thing and I can't wait to learn more about them that makes them so more worse than the flood and perhaps they are a similar species to the parasite itself like forerunners and humans but still completely different and regardless if they are a different group of all precursors or precursor related.
What if the endless are a 3rd faction legitimately meant to have the mantle they aren't precursors but they taught the endless of the forerunners sins and fall of humanity there previous predecessors during the time of the precursor war
they might be precursor constructs like Abaddon
i know very little about the halo lore, but I understand that the flood were formed by the precursors who turned into a sort of dust that would eventually reform. The primordial was killed in a reverse stasis chamber that caused it to experience billions of years in a few seconds. Could the endless be what the remains of the primordial became? could it have turned its body into that same dust while in the accelerated timestream, making it so that the dust which had a lifespan based in the acceleration when thrown into the normal flow of time caused their lifespan to essentially be frozen due to the vast difference between the two, hence giving them the name endless?
I hope that the endless don't just turn into prometheans 2.0 and actuall lead to something more serious instead of another stepping stone.
Is there a reason why the forerunners didn't just eradicate the endless if they were so afraid of them? They clearly had the power to do so.
You think the creators of a universe aren’t gonna have an army of course that’s why they don’t die to the rings
What happened to Ellen anders halo ring she escaped on in halo wars 2 want to do a video on that
This isn’t exactly to about the video you posted but has anyone else noticed how the CYLIXS in the silent auditorium during the harbinger fight aren’t like any of the others we’ve seen throughout the game? Maybe I’m wrong, but, could these be forerunners? Couldn’t be the endless…could it?
I did notice there was something different about them, but I haven't been able to take a closer look.
Thanks and likewise!👍🏼
Oooo, the idea they’re immune to flood could mean so much. If anything, if could mean Halo-and the genecide of the galaxy-was not *the last option* Can you imagine the guilt?
The main question I still have is what is Atriox’s motivation in freeing the Endless? Is it just to have them destroy humanity since Cortana destroyed Doisac? What is to keep the Endless from also destroying the Banished? (“For a moment of safety I unleashed damnation on the stars.”) the Banished are all about not having another master, and it seems very clear to me that they’d wind up being subservient to a race as advanced as that of the Harbinger?
“For a moment of safety I unleashed damnation on the stars.” is cortana's memory from events from halo 3 when she was interrogated by the gravemind (possibly she's telling earth's location to the flood).
I agree that atriox motivation is unclear. It might be worth mentioning that AFAIK, we don't know WHEN Doisac was destroyed. Is it before Atriox arrived/flees the ark? or is it after?
The book shadows of reach mentions that atriox heads immediately (after fleeing the ark) to zeta halo to look for something. But in the game (infinite), he is implied to not knowing what it is and only finds out later. (conversation with cortana).
i think they are their own species
What difficulty are you playing on? I play normal and you can barely kill a grunt with one sword slash. YOu have to use half the weapon just to kill two brutes.
This is all on easy. I find it makes for the best visual gameplay for videos.
Are the skimmers also endless/Xalanyn? Did the banished open up a few hundred cylixes to get them?
Skimmers are related somehow, but the exact relationship hasn't been made clear yet.
The only thing that draws any kind of doubt on this is that the Precursors had intended on humanity, not the Forerunners, to be the keepers of the Mantle and Harbinger's actions don't line up with that want/intention as she very clearly by the end of HI wants to wipe out humanity. There is an early line where she tries to tell Chief that they are not enemies. But she also tells him that he, and I'm assuming she means humanity, is not the future, and even refers to him as Reclaimer, so she very clearly knows of humanity's role in all this. So, if she is of Precursor origin, either the Precursors made them to replace humanity as the bearers of the Mantle, or they too, like the Forerunners, turned against their creators while keeping the Precursor's hatred for the Forerunners. Whatever the case may be, I can't wait to see what 343i does with them.
Also keep in mind that the Master Builder fired off Zeta Halo at Charum Hakkor and when they checked to see if all life was gone, the only survivor was... bum bum BUUUM! The Primordial. IF you look at some of the artwork out there on the Precursors and in particular, the Primordial, his head and face have similarities to Harbinger. Her helmet resembles his head, and her face is similar to his as well. So, I think this adds more weight to the argument of The Endless having Precursor origins.
I like this theory quite a bit.