Start Compression Locked Briggs & Stratton Engine
Вставка
- Опубліковано 15 лис 2020
- How to start a compression locked Briggs & Stratton Engine. B&S engines in a certain series (330000 & others) have a known mechanical failure with the compression relief mechanism. This video shows a work around to starting an engine with this failure.
*Please use your own discretion when starting an engine with a compression relief failure. It's common to find metal pieces of the mechanism within the engine when it fails. This can harm your rotating assembly. - Навчання та стиль
Dude!!! Thank You so much for the tip on starting without a new cam !!! I just put a new cam in this thing 4 months ago and it did it again !! First thing is the morning I’ll git er dun!! !!! Thanks again!!!
Geesh, such a bad design! To simplify this hack, simply move the engine to TDC then block the air intake with a rag or piece of wood. Works just as well and far less steps 👍
This seemed to be the trick that worked. Thank you so much. Apparently, my gas is old but adding fuel stabilizer and following your steps from this video worked perfectly. 💪
Thank you
You’re welcome 👍 thanks for the comment 🤛
You can also just spin the engine in the opposite direction until it won't turn anymore and start it without removing the plug or adding starting fluid. If it doesn't start the first time spin it back and try again.
Working on a Craftsman that's been sitting for 8 years, was having the same problem. Did exactly what you did and replaced the plug and it fired right up. You're a lifesaver! Thanks for the video!!!
You’re welcome! Glad it worked 👍
You don't need to take the spark plug out or mess with the air filter. Simply turn the flywheel BACKWARDS about two turns till you get to the compression stroke. This gives the crank two easy spins before hitting the next compression stroke. The two easy spins will give you enough inertia to keep it cranking if you have a good starter and battery.
Just a note fellas, i had this problem, fitted a cam kit, had same problem, checked and set valves problem fixed, Cam decompression does fail, but i got caught by loose valves. Cheers and good vid.
Yes, this is 100% correct. Definitely check valve lash before going all-in on a cam swap 👍
Thanks for this very useful video.
I checked the valve clearances but knew from the symptoms that the decompression mechanism was broken on my Intek version.
I wound engine ccw until resitance was felt and found that 12.5 volts wasnt enough, so gave it 14.4 volts off a running car and that started it.
Hello. Love that method. More Power! Wins every time. Good job 👍👍👍
Thank one more time. Very clear to speak. Amen.
You’re welcome 👍
I've been doing, something similar to this for 2 years. I never knew there was a decompression mechanism at all... so I assumed battery &/or starter were NO GOOD. I replaced them both with NO LUCK. I was able to spin the flywheel by HAND (top of motor) to get it past the compression stroke WITHOUT removing spark plug.
FYI... I hooked a battery BOOSTER PACK directly to starter (+) post while simultaneously turning key to "Start" postiion & was able to get it to crank enough to start WITHOUT getting to TDC nor using starter fluid. Prolly gonna burn up my NEW starter, though.
*EDIT:* After reading all the comments below... gonna check valve adjustment FIRST. 2005 B&S 17.5hp.
Yes, definitely check the valve clearance first. If that doesn’t solve the problem, likely the compression relief mechanism.
Thanks for the video. My Intek 20hp B&S did this a few years ago and I paid someone around $300 to repair it. All was well until a few days ago when it behaved like the battery was not charged enough to start. I tried a new battery with no change. I then replaced the starter solenoid with no change. My next step would've been the starter, but as much as I was in denial, the compression issue was the cause. I turned the wheel on top of the engine backwards about two turns and it started. Got about 3/4 of my lawn mowed and figured since I can at least now start it, I'll finish the next day, Nothing doin'. after 15 tries I headed to my local hardware store and purchased a new mower with a Kawasaki engine. In my world Briggs & Stratton can never be trusted again.
This is the unfortunate reality with the B&S engines. Just an awful design. I recently replaced the cam for a second time to fix the compression issue. The fix lasted for two mows...now it’s broken again. I’m completely with you. I’m done with anything B&S. I’d really like to go full electric, but too cost prohibitive right now.
I did figure out how to start the engine easier, however. Even with a broken compression relief mechanism. Simply turn the engine by had past TDC then cover up the air intake tube and crank it on choke. This decreases the amount of air the engine intakes and makes it easier for the starter to spin the engine. It’s a much quicker method than what I do in this video, but ridiculous nonetheless. I will be replacing the engine with one from Harbor Freight or anything that doesn’t have this poor of a design. The mower itself is fantastic...just the terrible power plant.
Congrats on the upgrade! Silver lining is you won’t have to deal with this again and can dissuade others from buying B&S.
I appreciate the comment and good luck going forward!
@@FastFixUA-cam I'll bet you bought a non-B&S approved camshaft for under $40? I went through two of those Chinese things (total of 1 hr running time!!). The Chinese ones have horribly made compression release mechanisms. Finally bought a virgin B&S one for $60 out of a factory messed up new engine. Works like a charm.
@@f86fman hey there. No, I bought a real B&S cam for $100 each time. And each time they broke. I’d say your days are numbered with the one that’s working for you, but maybe you’ll be good to go for the life of the mower. Hopefully that’s the case. I just see so many people on this thread that have the same problem as me. It’s hard to imagine this problem won’t continue. Thanks for the comment.
You probably got ripped off by the people that "fixed" it, 90% of the time when that happens all you have to do is adjust the valves and it'll crank just fine.
The automatic compression release only opens the valve a tiny bit, when your valve rockers are out of adjustment far enough then it negates the automatic compression release because there's so much slack in the rocker adjustment that the automatic compression release doesn't have enough lift to cover all the slack in the valve train.
I've fixed so many of these things for people that were about to take their mower to a small engine repair shop because they thought for sure that the automatic compression release mechanism on the camshaft was broken off it's not even funny, I have the feeling that 90% of the time these shops are charging people for a new cam and all the labor to put one in and all they do is adjust the rockers and wait a couple of days then call the owner to come and get it and tell them they had to put a new cam in it and hand them a healthy bill.
The last one I did one of the rockers had so much slack that tiny bucket (some call it the tappet) on the end of the valve stem fell off and was in the bottom of the rocker cover.
Tell everyone you know that before they take a hard starting riding mower to a shop to take off the rocker (valve) cover and grab the rockers, if you can move them all over (make sure neither of the valves are up on it's cam lobe) then they need adjusted and I'll guarantee you that the automatic compression release will work.
To check the rocker (valve) adjustment remove the spark plug and the rocker (valve) cover, turn the engine by hand in it's normal direction until one of the valves fully opens, then you can adjust THE OTHER VALVE, do this with the correct feeler gauge for that model engine and valve (you can find the clearance specs online), then turn the engine until that valve is fully opened and adjust THE OTHER VALVE.
Replace the valve cover and spark plug and I'll almost guarantee you that it'll crank over just fine.
Word of advice, don't wait until the engine is hard to crank to adjust the valves, having that much play in the valve train has the parts banging around and that's what causes those little automatic compression release mechanisms to break, adjust them once a year and not only will it always crank through properly but you'll never have the automatic compression release mechanism fail on you.
@@dukecraig2402 hey thanks for the knowledge. My 3year old Briggs did this hard start thing yesterday. Soon as I get home I'm goin to the valves
I adjusted the valves on my YT3000 and it has ran for the last two years like a champion!
The compression release depends upon proper valve adjustment. I run ethanol free fuel that I process my self and I also had a squirt of two stroke to the fuel to give it some top cylinder lubrication.
I run a YT3000 with a 21 hp platininum.
Hello. Yes, proper valve lash is critical to the valve release mechanism working properly. One should always adjust the valves first before changing the cam or resorting to my method for starting when the mechanism is indeed bad. Thanks for the comment and advice! Awesome you make your own fuel 👍
Aman
I'm having problems with mine right now losing compression when trying to crank
My YT3000 has had the compression release camshaft replaces twice in 2 years.
I found a temporary fix to get it started is to remove the airfilter and cup my hand over the intake while cranking (creates vacuum, thus lower compression).
After the engine cranks a few round, I remove my hand and WaLah! fires up.
Because the compression release is sure to break over and over, I am going to make the permanent work around liek this . ..
ua-cam.com/video/hFaxIl_rDg4/v-deo.html
UPDATe - turns out adding the pipe to the head was enough to fix it (lower compression enough) without having a solenoid, so I replaced the solenoid with a simple cap on the pipe. ( I am also going to try no pipe fix and instead just use a stack of head gaskets (2,3,4? of them) to increase the head chamber space which will slightly lower the compression (enouhg to start and run).
Currently - Start and runs great with the old broken release mechanism still sitting in the bottom sump of the engine - unless you turn your mower upside down that metal part will stay in the bottom oil sump and not cause any harm.
PS -
it wouild be a freak instance where that part coming loose could cause sny harm to the rotating assembly - it would have to land just right onto an open rotating gear and, even then, I think it would damage the part more and not the gear (gears are made of a much harder steel than the little weight).
You can also turn the engine backwards to that same spot like you were doing with the fly wheel cover without removing the spark plug.
Yup, exactly right. Don’t need to remove the spark plug 👍
That's what I usually have to do.
You are man! Thank you for that video... much appreciated.
You bet! Appreciate the comment 👍
Yea good video. Verry specific n clear. Strait to the point. No bullshit.
Thank U.
You bet! I appreciate the comment 👍
Lightweight is good and what did I use it for it’s a lawnmower ua-cam.com/users/postUgkxTPN04aT-Qdjr_KS3ql7ng8wnU3wwsCqk also recommend Yes it is lightweight so hence not as robust as our old one. But if you take care it does the job really well.
Same…
Thanks that was very helpful!!
I'm convinced my compression relief mechanism has failed, since I have a newer battery and starter. The only reason I'm dreading the repair is that it's my only mower so I'd need to repair it in a timely manner. I'd be OK running it with these "hacks" but worry about a major failure if the mechanism is sitting somewhere at the bottom of the sump cover. Thank you for sharing!
You bet! I’ve been running mine all summer long with a broken mechanism. I share your concerns regarding metal in the sump, but like you this is my only mower so I’m just crossing my fingers that all will be well. Best of luck when you make the fix.
I know about the compression relief problem for a long time now and I think my little 3 series has ran like this for about 2 years. Just haven't had the opportunity to take it apart. This is the first time I hear about metal in the sump.. :D Lucky I guess.
Running 2 years now & not ripping it apart. Will buy another $500 tag sale mower first! (Not my money... the "company's" money)
A 500 CCA battery for a touring Harley has kept mine working for around 3 years (and it was 3 years old when I got it for free).
Nice! Wish they all behaved like that 👍
Buen video. Al punto, sin comadreo, solo explica de como hacerlo y lo hace muy claro facil de entender. Asi se hace amigo amen.
Glad this helped. Thanks for the comment 👍
New subscriber and love the videos keep it up please!
Hello! Thanks for subscribing! This channel is sort of a mishmash of stuff and I hope you find some of it useful. Cheers!
I done everything I could to get my 18 horse brings to turn over I could...now I know why it's the compression relesee unit that's failed and I discovered the back up compression trick to get it running on my own... need to take a picture of the mod and tool I made to get it going really easy.
Hello. Sorry to hear yours failed too. I expect most are on borrowed time. I did a few extra steps in this video, but really all you need to do is spin the engine near TDC then use a rag to block the intake. That usually works well. Thanks for the comment. Interested in the tool you made.
I've been starting a v twin for 5 years since I bought it used by rotating the engine to top dead centre on the stiffest cylinder, then just past it. From there the starter cranks its fine. I always thought it was the sealed battery had been incorrectly charged and compromised by the previous owner (lots of warnings in the manual supplement), but I was surprised that a brand new battery didn't change anything. So I've now just discovered this compression release mechanism fault. It seems though that even a slightly too wide gap on the exhaust valve tappet can cause it, as the compression release 'bump' is so slight a oversize gap will mean the exhaust valve just doesn't open that little fraction to decompress. So next job is set the tappets.
Hello. Yes, the fault is something that took me a season to figure out. I thought it could be a battery as well or maybe the starter.
It’s possible that a simple lash adjustment on the valves could do the trick for you. Just find the specs for your engine and go from there. If it doesn’t correct the issue, you’ll likely require a new cam.
Thank you for the comment. Feel free to let me know how it goes. Best of luck 👍
The compression release on those is a weight on the Cam it is closed when you turn it over until it starts and it'll sling open and will allow the valve to close that's how it releases the compression I hope you understood that now the tappets that you mentioned in last sentence of your deal yes they need to be adjusted yearly, a lot of people don't know that and even slightly off will cause the same problem
Had this problem on a Biggs & Statton engine as soon as I removed the spark plug petrol came flowing out of the engine, that was causing the compression problem .Previously I had been working on problems getting the carburetor float bowl to seal eventually sorted that problem, I'm not a Mechanic so no idea how the engine flooded but fires up perfect now. Thanks for your video.
Hello. Yeah, hard to say how that happened, but on these motors I’d believe anything. Glad you got it sorted 👍
Bad fuel valve and/or seat on the float, or cracked float. Maybe.
Last week I fixed one of those for a friend that did the same exact thing, when I took the plug out and cranked on it there was enough gas that sprayed out of the cylinder that I thought possibly the engine was hydro locking on the compression stroke, then I took the valve cover off and both rockers had so much play in them that one of the buckets (tappet if you will) had fallen off of the valve stem and was laying in the bottom of the valve cover, replacing it and adjusting the rockers properly is all it needed to crank and run properly.
When the rockers get way out of adjustment the valve train has so much play in it that it negates the automatic compression release mechanism, that compression release only opens the valve a tiny bit, when you've got that much slop in the valve train the automatic compression release doesn't have enough lift to bring the valve up off the seat, just adjust the valves to spec and I'll bet it'll crank over just fine.
I've fixed a ton of these things for people that were about to take them to a shop figuring they were about to buy a new cam and pay to have it put in, I'd lay odds that the majority of the time that those shops charge people for a new cam and installing it all they do is adjust the valve rockers and wait a couple of days to have the owner come it to act like they replaced the cam.
When they get hard to crank take the valve cover off, then turn the engine by hand with the spark plug out to where one of the valves is open, then grab the other valves rocker and see if it moves all over the place, repeat for the other one, if they have all kinds of play in them then I'll bet a simple valve adjustment is all you need and your engine will crank just fine.
Don't wait until the engine gets hard to crank to adjust the valves in the future, do it once a year, by running the engine with all that slop in the valve train the parts are clanking around all over the place and that's what breaks those automatic compression release mechanisms.
And the reason for doing the adjustment on one valve while the other is open is to assure that the valve that uses the automatic compression release isn't on the release when you adjust that valve, that's another mistake I've seen people make, they adjust the one valve while it's on the compression release, it's easy to do since it only bumbs the valve open a small amount compared to actually being on the cam lobe, if one valve is fully open then you know for sure that the other one can't be on the compression release, I know only one valve uses it but that's a for sure way of making sure you don't adjust the valve that does have the release while it's on the release.
@@dukecraig2402 thanks for the knowledge! My 3year old B and S did this yesterday. I'm betting it's valve related. Soon as I get home that's one of the first things I'll look at.
I didn't realize you were the gentleman I'd talked with earlier and you'd text me back😁Hey thanks again for the tips. I work on bikes alot but I've neglected this mower. I bet this does it though
Great video, I subscribed!! There is another way to do a temporary/permanent repair to make these start without probably repairing the cam. I will make a video on this soon.
Hello. Please post your video on This thread so I can check it out! Interested to see the solution without a cam replacement. I just replaced the cam for the 3rd time. Hope it will last more than on season 🤞
Also, I took the long way on this video. All you need to do is spin motor to near TDC, cover the intake with a rag or your hand (glove on) and start. It works most times, but sometimes the starting fluid is needed. Just FYI.
@@FastFixUA-cam Thanks for the tips! I will let you know once I post the video.
what's the trick man?
@@hqmonaro308 well it only worked for a month so disregard, but I over adjusted the valves and used a high Amp battery
My 1996 Tractor style Snapper with Briggs engine was doing the same thing. I adjusted the vales. No help I could turn the engine by hand w/o removing the spark plug and no starting fluid. I turned it past the compression stroke and started it. My battery checked out good but it was a 4 year old Die Hard from your local members store. I put a new Wal mart battery in it with 25 less amps and it is starting now even better than that Die Hard did when new.
Oh wow…sometimes diagnosing can be tricky especially when things are checking out. New battery was for sure the best outcome. Good work 👍
@@FastFixUA-cam Thanks FastFix. I made another post furthering the story which I'll do now. After mowing my yard and struggling to get it cranked, I put it up for the night. The next day I installed the new battery, Cranked great but engine was running wide open. Found a small twig stuck in the governor mechanism took that out and it runs perfect now
Thank you! reaaly appreciate it.
You’re welcome 👍 thanks for the comment
Thanks for the tips
You bet!
Thanks for the tip...like a pro...
You bet! For a faster start, you can just spin the flywheel to around TDC and stuff a rag into the intake. Usually starts that way and you won’t have to remove the plug and use starting fluid.
JUST rotate the engine to center of the compression stroke, which you can feel without pulling the plug. That is when the starter has the best chance to overcome the next compression stroke and start.
Hello. Yes, you’re right. No need to remove the spark plug 👍
You were spot on. I assume that if I did what you showed it does not fix the problem of starting on future attempts?
Hello. If adjusting the valves does not work, it’s likely the compression release mechanism that’s causing the problem of the engine not spinning on start up. I’ve got more videos on that if you care to browse and check them out. Best of luck!
Hey cool. Ill try that next. I was close at turning it but didnt realized top dead center would do it. Mine did the same thing. I thought maybe it was a fluid lock. Oil smells like gas. I was using small engine oil on a 14.5 ho briggs.
Best of luck!
I have the same problem but a much easier way to start it when it wont crank as his did you are on top dead center just grab the fly wheel screen and turn it counter clock ways till it gets real hard to turn , I put a little fuel down the carb as he did with starting fluid put your throttle at its lowest point like you are killing the motor this allows less fuel & air in so less to compress turn key when it starts go full throttle ! IT has worked for me for 3 years !
Isn't it sad that people have to use these "hacks" to use their yard equipment? You describe a much easier method and I will give it a shot. I'm replacing the cam for the 2nd time, but it will fail again... Maybe I'll have an electric one by then! haha.
I do the same...
Yes, that is how I do it also; just hop off the tractor, spin the engine CCW and get back on. It has worked every time for about 6 years but I'm getting tired of it and will do the repair this winter. Also, mine engine is 26HP B&S and has two spark plugs, removing them each time is out of the question.
i turn the top of engine counter clock till it gets hard to turn put throttle on chock and start engine
@@xd319michael2 Ya taking it of the compression stroke dose wonders !
I saw a video where if you take your hand and put it over the air intake, that will prevent air from getting in and compression building up, and allow your engine to turn over, and once it is running or gets going you can release your hand and let air in. I haven't tried it yet.
Hello! Yes, that should work! In fact, that’s how I do it now. Much faster/easier. Good tip 👍👍👍
@@FastFixUA-cam You've tried ot and it works? I'm skeptical because even if I blocked off the air intake there would seem to already be enough air in there to get compressed to halt the engine on the first compression stroke and go no further. My sir intake isnt so easy to block off either behind a cheap foam air filter and plastic housing. I'll try it with the next crank. I had a job yesterday getting the blades off and sharpening and balancing them on my motorcycle wheel balancer and using hand grinder.
Yes it helped thank you
Awesome. Thanks for the comment 👍
With blades engaged as a mowing I began to get a shake and about 20 seconds later KNOCK...it's locked up right now. Was the knock from the pressure build up or was that the sound of motor/metal?
Hello. It’s hard for me to say without seeing/hearing it. I’d check the belts and make sure they’re disengaged. It’s be weird for the motor to just lock up unless there were severe mechanical issues going on internally. So, make sure belts are disengaged then try and rotate the flywheel by hand. If it won’t budge, you likely have an internal failure. Hope this helps.
You did it the hard way. Here is how I do it. Take the air cleaner off, put on a leather glove, put your gloved had over the intake, crank the engine. It will start immediately so get your hand off the intake quickly. What you are doing is not allow air into the cylinder, so no air to compress, it turns over.
Yes, you got it. I was doing it the hard way in this video. I’ve since done it the way you describe. Actually, I just replaced the cam for the 3rd time so hopefully it’ll last the summer season 🤞. Thanks for the suggestion in any case. I’m going to do a revised version of this video in the near future.
@@FastFixUA-cam Keep up the good work. A lot of folks out there need help with mechanical stuff. In my day, kids learned it from their parents just as a way to survive when hard times hit us.
Thanks Rom
I didn't say in my earlier response, but in my opinion there probably is not anything mechanical broken that causes the problem,. I believe that the mechanics of the compression release is just "sticking" due to infrequent use, because most people reporting this problem say it happened after first attempt to start it after winter storage when the rig had been setting idle for months..@@BryanPAllen
@@Partysize2 Thank man. Had this problem this weekend. Pulled plugs and spun it over for a while and problem seems solved. For now anyway.
I have BS 20hp twin intel 461707. The Camshaft 691161 is no longer available. I bought a used one but it has no compression relief spring. Is this junk? Can I start this with what your showing just to use it for one more season?
Hello. I’m no expert, but a used camshaft sounds like a non-starter from the get go. When the cam spins, the tappets will create wear marks and groves. These are very small, but still unique to that camshaft. When installed on a different engine, those wear marks can cause premature wear on other parts and not mesh well. This may not apply to small engines and tolerances are not as critical, so you will probably be okay. If your original camshaft had a valve relief mechanism on it and this new (used) cam does not, no it will not work.
I’ve ran my mower all season using the method in this video. However, I’ve found a better way. Instead of removing the plug and spraying starting fluid, simply turn the motor (using the flywheel) past TDC then use a bunched up rag to plug the air intake. Don’t let the rag get sucked into the engine, but otherwise it starts every time when doing this. It’s much easier. Let me know if you’ve got questions. Thanks!
@@FastFixUA-cam Thanks for the response! I’ll give it a try. I’ll give you an up date.👍🏽
I'm really hopeful this fix will work for me as I'm having the same problem! Could you link your other two videos in the description? I always have trouble with the popup links and I will want to follow your guide to fix it after the season. Thanks!
Hello. Sure, no problem! I’ll link them here in a few different replies. There are three that can help your situation.
ua-cam.com/video/p4UT1m-0czA/v-deo.html
Another:
ua-cam.com/video/1gYChLnF3rw/v-deo.html
Last one:
How to Remove Briggs & Stratton Engine on Lawn Tractor
ua-cam.com/video/6lV8I5nfVMQ/v-deo.html
Thanks!!!
I forgot to step on the clutch before starting my Troy Bilt Pony mower. Now it won’t start. It had turned on just a minute ago without any issues when I stepped on the clutch. The engine does not crank, but just a click that I can hear from the starter solenoid when trying to start it. The engine fan barely spins when turning it on, but I was able to rotate it when I took the cover off the engine. Spark plug did not have much carbon build up & just did an oil change recently. Any suggestions?
Hello. Interesting, I would think there would be a safety switch that would dissallow the mower to be started without stepping on the clutch. However, perhaps not. In your situation it kind of sounds like compression lock or you may have a weak battery at this point. The clicking can be indicative of both those things. Sorry I’m so late in replying to this, but I’d hook up a set of jumper, cables, and see if that does the trick. If not, you’ve probably got bigger issues. if the battery is fine, adjust the lash on the valves and see if that fixes things up. If not, you may have a failed compression release mechanism… Hopefully that’s not the case. Thanks for the question!
I have a very low hours b&s powered mower. When it just wont crank, I rotate the engine by hand, just past the "hard" spot. It then starts right up.
Sounds like a broken compression relief mechanism or you need to adjust valve lash. I’ve got videos on those procedures as well. Let me know I’d adjusting the lash helps. If it doesn’t, likely needs a new camshaft. It’s frustrating, I know.
also works if you hold your hand over the carb intake which chokes the hell out of it,been running one of them for 2 years that way,not necessary to remove the spark plug,just spin it backwards by hand,shoot it with starting fluid
Hello. Yes, you’re absolutely right. I certainly took the long road to get this thing started and have since adapted to simply covering the carb intake and choking the hell out of it as you say. Thanks for commenting and leaving some good advice!
Hey there, you are the closest to the problem I am having with my Scag Liberty Z ride on. Learning as I go with youtube assistance. Have had to take the spark plugs out kick it over and would start on spark plug reinstall. Is it possible to tell me what needs doing so that this is resolved? Cheers, Ron.
Hello. First thing to try is lashing the valves correctly. The specs on this depends on the motor. You’ll have to look that up. I wish I could point you to a good directory, but it’s like finding a needle in a haystack researching small engine specs…. If that doesn’t solve your problem, a cam replacement is likely your next step. I’ve got videos on that too. Best of luck!
@@FastFixUA-cam Thanks Jason, I lashed the valves and appears to have fixed the problem. After much confusion as to the gap clearance I took the average of all info gathered and went with .127mm on the intake and .178mm on the exhaust. It's a Kohler 7000 series and after replacing the covers with new hi temp silicon I came across the service manual which shows clearance as 0.101/0.152 (doing this first would have saved time but better than having it too close which can make the motor hotter from what I read). Rather than opening again I just went with it, the motor is sounding great, done the lawn and it started again soon after which it wouldn't do that led me to researching and getting in touch. Anyway, Thanks again Jason.
Hey, averages work! Glad the easy way worked out! You’re very welcome for the video. Thanks for the comments 👍👍👍
this was very helpful as i have that same ariens mower...thanks
You’re welcome!
I have the same Ariens mower 17.5 hp. I don't know if this works for sure, but a guy said if you put double head gaskets on for this comp release problem, it will lower the compression enough for the engine to start and not drastically lower the horsepower. I may try it if mine develops this problem.
Interesting! I had not thought of that as an option, but I suppose it could work. However, stacking head gaskets seems very risky and something that could likely turn into annoying problems down the line. The last thing you want is to have to replace head gaskets once per season. I’m not sure if there’s been any research done, that could give data toward knowing if doubling head gaskets causes head gasket failure. I would imagine it would. ButBut it’s something to try! If you do it and you get good results, let me know!
I have a belt stopping me from free spinning motor by hand. I slipped the belt off, and I'm now able to spin the motor by hand. What's causing the belt to lock up?
Hello. Sounds like the belt is engaged to the blade drive pulley. Make sure it’s disengaged prior to starting. If that’s not it, let me know. Thanks!
Hi I have Cub Cadet LT50 24hp, Run fine last week but now my motor won't turn. I have tune-up with new sparks plug, oil filter and air filter. Battery is good and starter is good. When turn the engine by hands it won't turn at all seem to be stuck not sure what is wrong. Is there a way to get it turn or do i need new engine appreciate if you can help here. Thanks!
Hmm, that’s strange. Did you check the oil level? Make sure there’s adequate oil. Hopefully it didn’t run dry of oil. I doubt that, but it’s worth checking. Otherwise, look for things that could be interfering with the flywheel or the best system under the mower. If the blade is disengaged this won’t matter, but if it is engaged that might be your issue.
Mines hard turning 19 hp also. Have to use wrench socket. Make sure key is off. But runs like new. Make sure key is off to do this.
Help!!!! Working with a 17.5 hp Briggs and Stratton, have already checked the compression release and it’s good. Reset valves, has new gas new carburetor, new oil and new air filter. Now when I try to crank the motor spins freely but won’t start. All I get is a very very old backfire and see just a tiny tiny amount of smoke/steam coming from exhaust and top of carburetor hose. What in the world could it be???
Hello! Thanks for the question! It sounds like a timing issue to me or improper valve lash. With all the updates you made, it’s hard to pin it to one thing or another, but backfires scream timing or valve lash issues. Make sure you’re setting lash at TDC. That is the primary concern to me with your situation. Did you open up the engine at all when you checked the compression release mechanism? If so, make sure the dots line up on the cam and crank gears. Feel free to follow up on this thread. UA-cam makes it hard to see replies and apologies if I miss it. Can always reply on a new thread. I will see it there for sure. Best of luck!
@@FastFixUA-camyes, I made sure dots were completely lined up. I was at TDC and valves were set at .004 and .006, however after re-gapping my ignition coil, she fired right up! She’s now running better than ever. Thanks so much for the response!
My ariens has done this since new in 2010. I've noticed this happens when my battery is deteriorating or low. If it does this I just put my palm on the fan cover and it unlocks it and cranks right up. This issue is why I became a lawn tractor specialist as a side gig and buy cheap LT and sell high after I sauce them up.
Hell ya, nice! All the sauce 🤙
I made a tool that fits in the flywheel screen bolt holes and turn flywheel off top dead center and carry it on tractor.allyou need is a piece of flat iron and a couple bolts to fit in screen drill holes ln flat iron to match screen holes
Nice! Good advice 👍
excellent
Thanks 👍
"They fail OFTEN in my experience and this is the SECOND TIME it has happened to me."
Man, same story here. The last one I changed out only lasted two weeks. Unreal…
I’ve had this problem and I just turn the engine backwards until I feel resistance and start it there. I’ve never pulled the spark plug. The same symptom can occur with excessive valve clearances, with nothing broken. Have had new Briggs and Stratton in a Husqvarna tractor with valve clearances of .012” and .014” that did this. Check valves before tear down.
Absolutely correct. Everything this comment said is accurate. I’ve also forgone removing the spark plug and now simply stuff a rag into the intake and that does the trick. Yes, incorrectly lashed valves cause this symptom too. Good call outs 👍
Check valves for sure, i put a cam kit in, no change, set valves , fixed.
What about just using a cordless impact drill with a socket on it to turn over the motor? I'm going to go buy the socket I need because I've been having this problem with my Ariens 42 which has an 18.5 or 19 hp motor. So sick of it.
Hello. Yes, I think that could work. I’ve had the idea too, but never tried. If you do attempt this, please reply to this thread with the results. Thanks!
@@FastFixUA-cam I'll let you know and try and figure out what size socket I need for my cordless impact drill and get one the next couple days and let you know. I have an older Makita impact so hope it has enough power. Just a terrible design Briggs did. We should file a class action lawsuit for this since they keep selling inferior compression releases and know they go bad.
I couldn’t agree more. They need to do a recall on these engines as all will eventually fail. It’s soooo bad. Yes, let me know how it goes!
I just take the air filter off and hold a bit of cardboard over the intake as I crank to stop the engine sucking in the air and once it's cranking over lift the cardboard up and it starts immediately. A lot quicker and easier.
Yes, I started doing that too. I over did it on this video. Definitely a better way that you described. Put out a vid! Ha. 👍
Most common thing on planet !! Valves adjust to 4000ths both ! Done
Excellent! 👍👍👍
My 19 yo LT2000 with the Intek V-twin has been doing that for years, but only when cold. I just keep bumping the starter until it turns over.
That’s good it allows you to do that. Mine didn’t have the power to bump it repeatedly. Thanks for the comment 👍
Be careful with that bumping, from experience, the magnet inside the starter broke into pieces! Lol
I have renamed the engine on my mower from Briggs and stratton to briggs and scrap ton
Lol, perfect!
Just what the doctor ordered ✌️
Yes sir, glad to hear that! Thanks for commenting 👍👍👍
I have the problem of breaking my starter gear, what could be the problem?
Interesting… I’d say an alignment issue is probably to blame, but I don’t have a canned solution for you. Just check the gears and make sure they’re meshing correctly. I’d imagine if there’s too much space between the teeth, they could break. Hope this helps.
Thank you
So if anybody is still watching this particular video, simply turn your engine backwards until you feel the compression, then take the air cleaner off, put your hand over the carburetor and turn it over. It will fire up immediately, then put the air cleaner back on and away you go once it's warm it will fire up from after you turn it off for a few minutes.
Yes! This is correct. My method is overkill 👍
Thanks to both of you.
I have to do that every time now. I also hook battery charger up to the battery. Turn engine all the way counter clockwise until it stops, then cover carburetor with my hand and crank it over and it starts. Shitty I gotta do it every time when the mower is only like four years old.
This has been happening to my motor for 5 years now.
Yikes… It’s the most annoying thing. I just don’t understand how they can design and manufacture. Something that fails so often. It’s not fair for people who sell out a good amount of money and then have to routinely fix internal components of the engine. Thanks for commenting!
I'm confused as to why mine still won't start, I've tried this method a dozen times, and I've also tried covering the intake so there's less compression. But it won't spin over enough to fire
Hello. Are you spinning the motor to just after TDC before cranking the engine? I used a rag to stuff the intake and it works much better. Please let me know if you make any progress.
19 hp. with 350 cca volts must be a least 13.5 voltage. 12.5 not enough. Turning motor counter clockwise to high resistance. Put on full choke. Turn key vroom pull to idle. Always using hi test fuel non ethenal. Adding stabilizer. I'm lucky motor 4 seasons old.
You don't need to do all that to get motor started. My mower has the same problem. All I do is rotate motor counter clockwise till I can't turn any further, it will start right up.
Hello. Yes I took far. Too many steps with this video and most commonly the steps are not required to start the motor. I’m more or less wanted to do a video that would guarantee it. It would start so this is the result. However, I’ve been adopted simply covering the carb intake with my hand and choking the hell out of it. Fires up every time! Thanks for commenting and have a fantastic day.👍👍👍
A lot of questions on here about metal and parts being in the bottom of your pan causing damage I'm not saying it can't do that but it's highly unlikely this is a wait and spring usually they just fall off I've been running mine for over 10 years with no problems no metal in the oil hope that helps somebody
Yes. Exactly. The pieces are usually large enough thus weigh enough not to get in the oil flow. Mine has sustained no damage either. Thanks for the sensible comment 👍
I think I have this problem. But when I turn the crankshaft manually it will turn but when I do it with an impact it won’t. Doesn’t really make sense
Hmm…that is odd. Sure the impact isn’t damaged or maybe just too weak? Very strange…
@@FastFixUA-cam no the impact is fine. The mower is really old and rusted so it’s probably that, thanks
Mine wont turn all the way around i turn it by hand then it comes to a dead stop any ideas
Hello. Does it feel “squishy” when it comes to a stop or is it like hitting solid stop? The cylinder will be creating compression as the piston nears TDC and it will become increasingly hard to turn the motor. You have to power through all the compression that has built up in the cylinder. If you’re unable to continue to rotate the engine, pull the spark plug out and spin it. If it’s still giving you resistance or comes to a stop, you’ve got other problems. Please feel free to update this thread.
I check cam gear didn't see and parts broke go to top end wont turn no more
Thanks for replaying back
You really don't want to be running those motors with the compression release broken. These little parts are now being moved all over inside the motor, possibly damaging other parts. It could get costly if not addressed right away. The motor may run just fine, but I can't imagine what's going on inside!
Yes, I 100% agree. I think the annoyance of this part failing causes most (me included) to say “eff it.” 😂. Thanks for the comment and you’re right!
Bahahahah saw another video…. Nice to have options! Saw a guy cover the intake(after removing air filter) with his hand & start engine same way! Then he placed filter back on while it was running!
Unfortunately my mowers older!!!! & seems to hav same prob!
So I’m double chkg the old starter B4 I go any further.
Correct, options! I’ve resorted to the hand over the intake method, but instead of my hand I use a piece of plywood. Less burning that way. It’s a PIA….
Best of luck!
I pop off the cap on the top of my crank under the hood, and for my mower, use a 15/16" socket, turn the crank slowly clockwise just past tdc, when I feel the compression relieve. Cranks fine and with very little effort.
Yes, that’s a much easier way and all that’s necessary. My method is a bit too drawn out. I’ve since replaced the cam, but prior to that I was using a rag in the intake and that did the trick. No need for fluid or spark plug removal. Thanks for the comment 👍
@1:35 "take the motor off, replace the cam" easier said than done.
😂😂😂 100% right. Way easier said than done. However, if you have mechanical ability, you should be able to complete the fix. Best of luck!
i tried this method with no success and i also adjusted the valves..if i hold my hand over the carb inlet it spins freely but will not start and when i remove my hand it has compression lock...i have good spark on the plug
i got it going after all...your trick worked...thanks
Hello. Hey, great glad that worked. Mostly Cutting off the air supply is a fast way to get these going. Don’t need to necessarily remove the plug and spin to TDC. Hand over air inlet works most of the time. Glad you got it sorted!
Why didn’t you ajusted the valves
I did. The valves were not the problem
😂😂😂😂😂 is how my is acting up best video 100% 10+.....
Glad it helped!
Dude my mower wont even make a noise, its just like its permanently dead, this all happened when The deck engangment cable fell off and broke. i just spent all night fixing it.. and now it still doesnt want to turn over. please help @fast fix
Hello. Ouch, that’s too bad! Can you hear the starter try and engage when you turn the key? If the starter is making a noise and trying to work, you’ve got something keeping the engine or pulley system from engaging. I’d imagine your engine is fine. I’d really check over the pulleys, all belts, shafts, and anything that has to do with the belt systems. It could be that when the belt failed, it got hung up and bent a pulley or something nearby that stopping the engine from turning. If all is well, let me know and I’ll try and provide other possibilities. Best of luck.
@@FastFixUA-cam The belt does seem loose, and now that i Think about it, There is a pully bent I just didnt want to believe it, I convinced my brain of anything besides the obvious, because i really dont want to drop this deck, lol, I feel cursed for owning a craftsman riding mower. I can only blame myself I can hear the starter ( i believe), and the battery is good, and new, Its making a whining sound now, and it was starting with starter fluid for a second and puffing out white smoke, but now it wont even start for a sec even with starter fluid. I drained out all the fuel. i havent messed with the carberator, I put new premium fuel in with seafoam. and after you said the thing about the pully.... i can see that being the problem now, I did put bad fuel into it on accident, Thinking it was the good can. I appreciate the feed back, Any more advice would be awesome... I dont mess with mowers, but i can work on my 7.3 diesel and enjoy it kinda weird... I actually convinced myself That this one pully came bent in like that... The worst is here...
@@maclainsudman876 we’ve all been there man! Wanting to not believe the problem is as bad as we imagine. I totally get it.
I’d say once you get the pulley fixed and anything else that was damaged you should be okay. However, there is always the possibility that the sudden stoppage of the belt system could have caused something to undergo stress in the engine that it would not otherwise be subjected to. I’m thinking the pulley is bend to the extent that it’s causing friction with the mower deck or some other part that could be prohibiting the engine from rotating. But without eyes on it, that’s only a guess. Best of luck man 👍
@@FastFixUA-cam Whats your email? if you dont mind me asking?
@@FastFixUA-cam so I managed to hit a rock, ok bolder, gave it a good trim, the mower didn't stop, but when I got it stuck in my compost area, I tried rocking the mower while a wheel took turns just spinning. Guess I'm not heavy enough to keep my ass in the seat and rock the mower, and it shut off. Now it won't start and I can't turn the engine by hand.
I have a 25hp els briggs & straton that does this too, I just take the spark plug out of one side and while it's running on one cylinder I put it back in and off it goes haha
Lol, that’s one way to do it!
Why not just cover the intake until the motor starts spinning ?
That can work too if the compression has bled off. But that requires waiting and I’m not good at that. Good question 👍
Because there’s already air in the intake and carb etc. To pull vacuum you need to spin the motor. Which is tough to do when the motor won’t spin.
@al gibs Explanation: Every time you want to start it by this "choking off" method requires you to remove the air filter cover and then the air filter. PITA!
I started mine like that all season. Didn't wait for anything.
I do have a new crank that I will install over the winter.
It is an engine, not a motor (motor is electric). It is a compression release, not a compression relief. Compression release mechanisms on the cam don't fail often, in fact they fail rarely. You don't need to take out the spark plug to turn the engine over to get it past the compression stroke. In this case, taking the blower shroud off is necessary to get a good turn on the engine.
Thanks for all the corrections.
I would love to be part of a class action lawsuit against B&S. They have known of this common engine failure for many years and done nothing to remedy it.
Agree second cam in 1 1/2 years. Done with B & S.
Right?! Sign me up too!
I have problem just as long as it turn all way back for a running start it starts for Me.
Good! Glad it’s a sort of simple thing for you. Your method should work for most as well 👍
@@FastFixUA-cam no need a nuclear bomb drop on politician the mandate that we have to have a high compression engine. I I was a boy my parents 1977 lasted untill 1995 when the next was not as good and now have real junk. I love lawn chef.
Oh really? I wasn’t aware there was a mandate. I’ll check that out. Interesting! Thanks 👍
@@FastFixUA-cam flat heads no problems, but know make them any more
Well, I'll be pulling the plug in the morning. My machine is doing this exact thing.
Too bad. I think all of these motors are on borrowed time…. Best of luck. Installing a new cam isn’t too bad…you’ll get practice if you keep your engine.
@@FastFixUA-cam Seriously contemplating a motor swap to a Honda. This Briggs made it about 5-6 years and we have short summers here.
Switching to Honda is a good idea. I’ve replaced the cam three times on my B&S. I’m a pro at this point! Still upsetting when it continues to fail.
@@FastFixUA-cam Here's the latest. Good news, I don't need a new Honda yet. I was one bolt away from lifting the engine when I decided to finally drain the oil. There must have been 3 quarts of gas in the crankcase. It was hydro locking and mimicking the same issues you had with the broken cam lobe decompression lever. Put everything back, put fresh oil in and it fired right up. It won't move now. I must have messed up my clutch adjustment somehow. I will have a shut off valve from the gas tank before winter. Thanks for your video.
From my many years of experience. Ninety nine percent of time it is valve lash too tight supposed to be adjusted every year
Yes, agreed annual maintenance is required. Most however, have no idea what valve lash is let alone how to adjust it. Keeps mechanics in business!
Mine near new started this
Yikes… it’s an unfortunate design flaw
When this happens to me it's a valve adjustment
Yes, totally possible just a valve adjustment that is needed. 👍
Adjust the Valves first. you won't know if the compression release is broken without an engine teardown.
Correct!
Dealing with this now on a friend’s mower. Every time I turn around it’s something else with this engine. What a pos.
That’s been my experience too. POS
Just put you hand flat on the fan screen and turn it counter clockwise until it stops on the start of the stroke,turn choke on so the engine is sucking less air hit the key the engine has momentum and choked and it will start right up. Starting fluid will ruin an engines compression over time never use it
Yes, that’s a better method. Thanks for sharing 👍
Starting fluid is highly combustible, it will dry out the oil supply at the top of the piston,& burn the rings. too much use can do a lot of damage to pistons ,cylinder walls , connecting rods & crank bearings .it is realy meant for Diesel engine cold starting. High compression is not compression lock. weak Starter motor or battery is probably the real cause.
The starting fluid was a last resort and I agree should not be used often. 👍
Adjust the valves before you spend any money on it, I've never saw one that adjusting the valves won't fix, it's your money throw it away if you want to but it only needs valve adjustment.
No, you’re wrong. I disassembled the engine and the cam was indeed broken. Not a waste of money or time. Thanks.
Get a Kohler 7000 series engine problem solved 👌
Right!
The easiest way I found was to remove the air filter, cover the intake with a gloved hand, this will relieve the compression and turn over the engine Everytime. Reinstall the filter and you're done. I leave outside cover off my filter to make this even easier and faster.
Thanks for sharing
Just tighten your valves down tighter or place your hand on the guard and assist it. Starting fluid ion aluminum blocks and pistons is a hard no. Use brake cleaner
Haha, yup I discovered that MUCH easier method after I posted this. Will have to re-do this one and save everyone time. I had no idea starting fluid was bad for the blocks. Will give the brake cleaner a try. Thanks!
No doubt that you need your valves adjusted right and it should be done yearly But mine and many more the problem is the deal on the cam that is supposed to keep the exhaust valve open a little to release Compression is broke But as I posted you can rig it to start !
@@dodge59able exactly! The valve adjustment is fairly easy, but the cam is a PIA. I’ve replaced it twice now and the relief mechanism has broken yet again. At this point, I’m thinking of going electric.
@@FastFixUA-cam hey bud...Thanks alot for the video...read the comments...some of these guys never "worked" on ANYTHING....! BUT, if you will....what valve settings did you (end) up at please? Or how many turns past touching maybe ? And is it the same on both? Thanks in advance!
you don't need the decom valv - get a bigger battery
If it were only that simple. Largest battery available was 340 CCA. Not enough to overcome compression lock.
I just jump my off from my truck, spins over very well! Will be getting a Gravely next , mo more junk!!!
The starter motor is not strong enough, overamping it will burn it out.
F.Y.I. they recommend you adjust your valves every year, And it is not a big job I do mine in under ai/2 hour & most of that is looking for the tool I just had Lol
Yes, correct. I’d say most owners aren’t aware of this and are likely not experienced. To me, having this requirement is an unnecessary hardship on the owner. If it were a few decades ago, perhaps not as big of a deal, but these days it seems there are less people with mechanical ability. That’s not an inditement, just a comment on reality.
Why don't the companies make them better? Almost all mowers do that..they cost a lot anyway.
Agreed!
No body cares except the consumer.
DONOT do this shit! The compression release HAS broken! There are metal shavings in the oil and metal chunks in the crank case! They 100% WILL damage the engine catastrophically!
I ran mine the entire summer this way, but I take your point as I said as much in the video. Operator beware ☠️
Just block the air intake.
Yep, I learned that’s a much faster/easier way. Thanks for the suggestion 👍👍👍
Two time is a lot wtf lol
Exactly….
@@FastFixUA-cam lmao not it’s not. You can’t condemn them like that based on unknown service history and actual engine hours
What are you talking about? I’ve owned this from the beginning of its life. There are many instances of the problem occurring for others. Just read the comments. Lmfao that you think an internal component of and engine failing twice isn’t a big deal. Regardless of service history or engine hours. Pull your head out.
These engines are such garbage. I had a John Deere with one of these engines fail at only about 150 hours this way. Ended up selling the stupid thing, but between power equipment, cars, and motorcycles I've owned 20+ engines in my life, many of them for decades, and that's the only one that's ever failed.
Right, 100% agree with you. Complete garbage.
4 minutes wasted for starting fluid...
Huh?
The dumbest thing they did was put this fail system in a lawn mower
agreed! Awful design.
This is fast fixed? I can do this video in 15 seconds. Be a man take the air filter out put your hand over the tube crank it and let off when it starts to fire and you're done
Yep, MazdaMitch nailed it. No need to remove the plug and all that nonsense. Remove the air filter and yes, cover the intake hole and all set. 👍👍👍
I personally don't recommend the use of starting fluid in these particular briggs intek engines being they are commonly known for blowing head gaskets with their flawed head designs. For that much messing around id rather just pull the engine and replace the camshaft. If Briggs could come up with a gear reduced starter for these engines would be a good alternative also
100%