Honestly, I don’t see how other gacha games can pull off these three aspects as well as Zenless Zone Zero. I hope I'm wrong. All sources for this video are linked below: Video by Not Just Bikes: Not Just Bikes - The Secret to Japan's Great Cities: ua-cam.com/video/jlwQ2Y4By0U/v-deo.html References: [1] Genshin earned 5 billion dollars so far: www.pocketgamer.biz/genshin-impact-is-the-fastest-ever-game-to-pass-5-billion-consumer-spend [2] Polygon - Statement in Hoyoverse Lawsuit www.polygon.com/24063498/genshin-impact-hackers-sued-canada-court [3] Genshin running cost is roughly around 700 million. Check Wikipedia sources: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_expensive_video_games_to_develop [4] Calculating Genshin Cost of Production: www.reddit.com/r/Genshin_Impact/comments/wiyz7k/in_a_few_weeks_from_now_genshin_impact_will_be/ [5] Reddit Sensor Tower Report March 2024: www.reddit.com/r/gachagaming/comments/1bt0d2a/sensor_tower_monthly_revenue_report_mar_2024 [6] Reddit Sensor Tower Report July 2024: www.reddit.com/r/gachagaming/comments/1ehf41f/sensor_tower_monthly_revenue_report_july_2024/#lightbox Music used in this game: - Zenless Zone Zero - Turbo - Zenless Zone Zero - Endless Construction Night - Zenless Zone Zero - 60% Daily Serenity - Zenless Zone Zero - 60% Fantasy
other gacha game always use the same trope the MC lost its memory and then proceed to save the world because he/she is the only one who can or the chosen one its been like this since 2015 i believe zzz is more like a classic jrpgs where we play a certain role
Walking around the world of zenless during different times of the day and encountering different npcs feels so weirdly natural? Aswell as talking to those npcs isn't just a boring dialogue, most NPCs give you quests, some give you those HIA coins, while some talk about what they're doing there. The fact that we can actually see and talk to the playable characters in game as NPCs is such a nice touch and I actually care about walking around the maps and feel connected to the maps and the characters. I also kinda love the fact our main characters are just normal people living the double life of a proxy, so instead of NPCs first dialogue being,"OH MY GOD IT'S THE PROXY". We have something more chill and normal
Yep, yep! We're just vibing with our bros every day. Take every day easy, and just have fun! There has never been a gacha game this good at making you feel that you're part of their world.
@@FeyHunt Definitely! I have never been so immersed in the world of a gacha game before and I hope we see more games follow this vibe. Hoping that Neverness to Everness will be good at this aswell....
One big thing that stood out to me is I've even unlocked quests just through seeing an NPC stand out in a certain location and speaking to them across several in-game days, where things change and their story develops. Stuff like this in other games my reaction is usually "well how was I ever gonna figure this one out?!" but in ZZZ with the gameplay loop in the overworld encouraging you to keep visiting locations everyday and interact, it just felt like a completely natural progression. I was talking to the NPC because I wanted to talk to them, I hadn't even realised it would unlock a commission until the very end!
also the amount of just incredible unique art they put in the game is incredible every feels like its been made by anothet individual and not just conforming to a single artstyle
Music theory and such is part of my job, as well as audio cataloging for a company out here in Japan (its a games company, that's all that is needed to be said). One of the really important things to basically create a feeling of "home", is to have your music match your visuals in a way that relates important details. The Sixth Street music follows a few really easy but smart mental tricks in it's music. Firstly...it has an nearly vacation vibe. If you've ever seen old cartoons, when they did vacation episodes, they did Hawaii luau music. This is because the tropical, and "sunset" aesthetic are what we mentally link with conform and relaxation. The timing of the track is important too. It sounds slow, but it isn't. The backing beat is actually pretty fast, but the main track itself is slower, leading to the mental idea of "While the world is fast, here is slow", which reinforces it a lot and helps keep that. If you listen to the tracks for other areas, they don't follow the same ideas a Sixth Street because that one area alone is meant to be "home". Slow, comfy, sitting on a rooftop, watching the sun set over a city you know, but don't know. That hazy feeling of a holiday escape where everything feels right, but you actually don't know anything. Yet you feel safe. I love it. It's comfy.
@@Aproximal Thanks for the breakdown! I didn't know that two different speed for backbeat and main melody is a thing in music. And some courses I saw about music theory led to believe that only complex chord progressions can make good music. I have some more follow up question if you don't mind. What about the chord progression? Is there anything significant about ZZZ that makes it distinct? Also a very cool job you got there!
@@FeyHunt I can answer what I can, but I'm at work currently so a little pressed for time. If you'd like a good breakdown of the music of the series, Johnathan Barouch does a great not long break down about the percussion and styles. I'll answer a little better when I am done :)
@@Aproximal No worries! I'm in no rush! Music theory has always been my fascination for a while now. Tried it many times, but it never stick on my head. I'll definitely check out your recommendation on percussion, though!
I think what elevates ZZZ above its component parts is the artistry and the level of execution. Every little detail has care and thought put into it. They don't recycle walk and run animations, every character has unique body language, posture, gestures and mannerisms that tell you about the character and reinforces their distinctiveness. And, as you say, the environments also exude character. The shopfronts are catchy and full of personality. The streets have nooks and crannies for the player to explore. This is something missing not just in games, but in many parts of the world, especially America (and especially middle America), where strip malls and open spaces can look and feel painfully generic. In ZZZ, New Eridu is as much a character as the protagonists and the Agents and NPCs we encounter. You can tell the game is a labor of love.
Yeah! I hope the devs are having fun making it as well. I have a feeling that working in Hoyoverse must not be easy since they have endless work to do. I also heard that this is an entirely new team on their first project. That's impressive!
This was such a good breakdown! ZZZ really takes me back to the 2000s, an era that is constantly at the back of my mind just waiting to hit me with nostalgia at any given moment.
@@matthewedson6639 Thank for the kind words! Yeah, I think I should've mentioned that the retro aesthetic does bring up the nostalgia factor. Remember when arcade used to be crowded with people, and everyone is having fun outside. 😄😄
I noticed when I was doing side quests that I actually enjoyed doing City missions when I rarely enjoyed the in other games. Walking around sightseeing, petting cats, taking pictures, talking to neighbors, all this makes me feel as if I'm actually living there.
@@fatpurp4041 Yeah! I do hope we can get more in-world missions, instead of HDD missions. Some of them are genuinely funny and interesting, like investigating thieves in Sixth Street. 😆😆
As someone who has created hyper detailed "worlds" like 6th Street for other games I can say it's incredibly time consuming and painstaking to get a place to feel both realistic and populated. ZZZ did an amazing job with 6th Street, and it's probably the most immersive area I've ever seen in a gacha game. I realize not everyone is going to appreciate that to the same degree, but for those who do it's a real treat. I do feel like Genshin gets relatively close with it's towns and cities. It's just not as consistently excellent (understandably so, it's a massive world). I really enjoy most of the world in HSR too. Maybe the overworld area of Belobog feels a bit bare but it has its own charm I'd say (especially the small instances like Serval's shop and the flower store). The underground areas are excellent too. HSR is also telling a much grander story in a way, and has very little slice-of-life influences, making it much less important.
Yes, I don't deny that there are reasons why Genshin is less detailed. Budget limitation is a thing. They already had spent 700 million dollars, so if they do try to add more details... it might break GTA VI production cost. On a more personal note, I kinda wish that Belobog leans more into the steampunk aesthetic like in Serval's shop. That's my soft spot right there. Also, I wish they made the Astral Express look more homely since it was supposed to be your home between adventures. I am interested to know what projects you've worked on before. Perhaps you can teach me a thing or two about detailed worlds!
@@FeyHunt I still find Genshin quite detailed for such a huge game, and I do feel like the cities are fairly well developed and feel lived in more so than many other open world games. As for my experience it's not from any professional job or anything, but rather modding. I'm no expert in the sense that I could teach the skill I don't think 😅
@@bjornnilsson2941 I do agree. Genshin has come a long way. Mondstadt feels kinda empty, while at Sumeru they do make real cities that are crowded and lived in. Hey, modding is cool too! It's hard work with little monetary incentive! I have huge respect to you, sir!
Zzz Devs said that this was their First ever project and to be honest they did a fantastic job with it. They made this game with passion and it shows in the details.
Oh, so this is a new team? I didn't know that! I thought they cut off parts of HSR and Genshin team for this one... Impressive! If you do have the source for their interview, please tell me where I can read them!
@@FeyHunt Completely new team and they are actually quite young. They revealed it in their 1 st live stream. At the end they gave “ A LETTER TO ALL PROXIES” . I am sure you look it up on UA-cam .
BTW the shout-out to Not Just Bikes is a good one. It's about urban planning and layouts on macro issues. Very good watch for anyone interested - and I say as someone who doesn't actually agree with all the channel's points.
@@John_II Yeah, Not Just Bikes do promote different ways to see at urban planning, sometimes comparing different city layouts. It is definitely worth checking out. What issue you found about that channel? The only problem I see sometimes is the oversimplifications on how westerners can "easily" change their ways.
@@FeyHunt The oversimplifications are the issue. It's hard to start over with any city for planning. It is hard to change a whole city. I agree with the point in one video (I think he cited Montreal, Canada) where medium-density and mixed commercial residential use was the optimal way to do a city. And you supplement it with good public transit. And that's basically right and where I land on the issues of urban planning too.' However, in real life, it's all but politically impossible to accomplish. In Toronto, Canada where I live we're trying some of the suggestions, but you see in real life how a good suggestion cannot just be implemented. Building more density - like a 3-story building with a store on the ground floor and two floors of residences (heck make it 6) is a very good idea... but who is going to build it? In Toronto, developers would rather build a 50-story condo on the same lot for more profit. The same lot also isn't getting upgrades to roads and in Toronto so many people drive once you're outside the core of the city (you have to get anywhere in any reasonable amount of time). The some area isn't getting more subway service or more buses, so we just get congestions. The same area may also not have schools or hospitals, or the right sewers and so on.... So when the channel over-simplifies the issues like why can't we be more like Japan or Europe? Well, the answer is because of history. We built most of e.g. Toronto with cars in mind quickly to house people coming home from WWII in the 1950s to 1970s. Meanwhile Rome is over 2000 years old, and built differently over centuries. It doesn't mean we shouldn't try, but it's a lot harder than just doing it with strong government because (in Canada) NIMBY and corporate interests tend to trump what would be great for most people. Bike lanes are easy to build, but you cannot get rid of winter (unless you WANT more climate change ... :P). I think we should triple of subway grid of Toronto with lines on Jane, Kipling, Finch, Sheppard, Steeles, Warden, Markham Road, and Lawrence and extend it to all neighbouring cities... but I know the cost is going to be like $150 billion... that we don't have. Anyway, it's a great channel, and for high level stuff... he's right. If you go into a political science class on urban planning... not so much on the nitty gritty but that's a limitation of a UA-cam video. It's not a dissertation. :)
@@John_II Wow, what a great read you just gave me! Everything you say is true. He did put Japan or Amsterdam as his top examples of great city layouts. But thing is, Japan's urban planning was first set in 1947, after the entire nation was carpet bombed to the ground. Knowing that, it does seem like he's yelling at the clouds. I understand he is just putting his thoughts out there though, hopefully he can influence future lawmakers to adopt better urban planning. Also, it's very interesting that Canada and Jakarta, Indonesia had the same problem. My city already has a pretty good public transport, but we still have cars-onlu road. Plus the affordable housing is a big problem. I guess it's an easier problem to solve, since you just need to buy lands and build on it. Problem is, Jakarta is the exception to that rule. The rest of Indonesia's cities are a mess. There's no urban zoning at all!
@@Hhhh22222-w What is holding back Canada? How much time do you have? :P Short answers range from: interest groups run the country - and not in a cohesive way - to Canadians don't really demand better from their politicians or public servants. The public service is basically out of control: non-accountable and non-productive. I think we can get there, but it's going to be decades of demanding better from our governments. Like if the bike lane lobby, the urban reform lobby, the transit departments / infrastructure departments, and the condo developers were all on the same page, and we had no public sector unions - we could do it in like 20-30 years. Fix it all, I mean. But... that's just one man's take on the issue. :P
Another advantage of a small/limited space is that it is easier to fill it up with NPCs in motion to give the space a more lived-in and lively vibe, while also saving on dev budget and compute budget (for mobile). I also want to second another commenter's mention of the element of time. 6th St and Lumina Square are completely different places when comparing late morning to midnight. Lumina Square at midnight is deserted and lonely. The contrast really makes the late morning hustle and bustle seem more real.
Exactly! Empty space is a nightmare for designers. That's also why Jinzhou in Wuthering Waves doesn't feel like a city. It's just too empty. However, I want to add that the compute budget is a relatively easy problem to solve for NPCs. Modern game engines these days already have technologies like "culling" to minimize the amount of models displayed in the game world. You can easily see this in motion where NPC far away are hidden from view. But of course, you'll have limitations on mobile devices if you want to make Lumina Square into Shibuya Crossing. I wish there was a graphic setting to do that if you're on PC.
@@FeyHuntYou literally spend all of your time inside of the towns. The difference in time you spend in Jinzhou vs ZZZ town sections is massive, barely any vs almost all of it. That’s due to the focus of open-world games vs linear area-based games. Actually talk about the game’s merits and hold off on comparing the least comparable parts to games you hate.
@@aquasis995 I don't hate Wuthering Waves. I play it every day. I love that game! But, a part of giving feedback is pointing out areas where they are lacking. As I said in the video, I don't make my video to bash other games. Obviously, there are things that only WuWa can do well and I will eventually make that video, like the environmental storytelling in Tiger's Maw Mine. No game is above criticism.
@@rhnirsilva652 Yep! There are some neat routines that the NPCs work on. Sometimes even weekly routines. One time, I did see the bears in Brent Street having a drink at the end of the day on Friday, celebrating a nice week.
I agree! Minus the Hollow stuff of course... In this world, you can just suddenly fall into a random Hollow like your sibling in the interlude chapter.
@@FeyHunt I respectfully disgaree, I feel like a major tragedy in my life such as the Hollows existing and being as strong as the agents in this world would solve all the boring non fictional aspects of my humanity (reality sucks). Just bring me to New Eridu instead of existing in this linear reality
Your second reason is just 10/10 man. I was kinda disinterested by the whole lore drop dialogue scene when arriving at Belebog. ZZZ really allows me to learn the world myself through the npcs and environment. It doesn't hold me hand and tell me why or when this place was made, I can just gradually piece it together myself.
You sir, got it all right! That's the true essence of a great world design. Everything should have its reason why it's there, and trusting the player figure it out themselves. We're not stupid!
zenless i so good, been waiting since anounce and didnt disapoint. I did drop all live service games waiting for this and was surprisingly better than expected. The only dissapointment was the number of available characters but considering the level of detail its worth and after some updates that will no longer be a problem.
Yep, yep! I agree that the starting character is a little bit small, considering that 5 of them are locked behind the standard banner. We're still mostly doing A-rank characters right now. I think that's why they immediately ramped up by introducing 3 characters in this update. Which probably going to punch a hole in your wallet if you're not being picky! 😅😅
The vibe that ZZZ personally gives off for me is very similar to when I play Persona 3, 4, and 5. Taking the time off after missions, talking to the characters and getting their "side quests" or special events to increase friendship level, feels similar to when you're trying to build a social link on persona. And going to different places in the world feels very purposeful 💜
Yeah! I do like the Hub and Spoke HQ/location where you can go after missions. I haven't played any Persona games yet, but this kinda reminds me of OG Bioware games like Dragon Age camps or Normandy in Mass Effect. This is just a place where you can chill out and make some memories together.
I think immersion is very important for me. I played HSR for almost 2 years it’s a great game but I just can’t really immerse myself. I only get to walk and run with my characters while my phone plays them (during auto battle). Eventually I don’t like where they are going with the story, I can’t vibe with the characters and I don’t find myself wanting to play it anymore. ZZZ is something I feel like home, sometimes I just find a place in the world and just stand there with the music on while I work. It’s such a vibe and I feel connected with the world.
Yeah... it's a shame though. I did try HSR several months ago, and I just can't enjoy it. For me, it's the combat. When I win an encounter, it doesn't feel good. I already know whether I'll win or lose from the first strike. It's just a matter of numbers in the relics. I like their story direction and their character design, but if I have to endure the slog of combat... I don't think I can play it anymore.
Honestly it feels like the developers for ZZZ played a lot Persona 5 which is awesome. Like Persona 5 the overworld has such a vibe and liveliness to it that always makes it a joy to explore. The trust events also feel a lot like social links and both games have so many of these small interactions in the world itself.
thank you for putting it into words in this video. i wondered for the last month why do i always think about zzz more than other games and now i understand better.
Zenless zone zero has its own unique flair I love it so much from many different features it has it can be the bustling vibes at lumina square and random play. The fun gameplay loop the game offers and not to mention the animation overall this game is peak.
@@Hashiunidya Yeah! Since everyone is always paying close attention to Hoyoverse, you can expect more games will try to make similar effort with their games. Which is an overall win in my book! 😆😆
@@FeyHunt yep hoyoverse has more ips in the lab cooking and ready to release in the near future can’t wait to see how they carry on implementing and improving these features
Yeah, me too! The only thing I don't quite enjoy is the repetitiveness of the HDD exploration after a while. I'm already at Level 48, so it starts to get grating when different quests just repeats themselves. Otherwise, everything else is great!
Oof... Press F for you, brother. I did lose 50-50 on the event banner to get Grace, and then another standard banner once to get her W-Engine. So, I guess the task failed successfully?
@@FeyHunt For you it’s was successful, man but I lost to get Soldier 11 (she’s good though and I love her design but I wanted Ellen) and lost the standard banner to get Koleda’s W-engine which I quite disappointed cause I didn’t get here
I just love how everything is plausible irl despite the craziness and flair that zzz world has. It feels lived even while you're phasing through npcs. Lumina square in particular reminds me of Hong Kong so much while 6th street reminds me of where I stayed in Ikebukuro for my studies.
@@user-et3ye5vh2h Oohhh, I would love to visit real life Lumina Square! And yeah, ZZZ is a big contradiction of a crazy world ending threat and where you are just vibing with your friends 😆😆
I think a big part is that because the danger is primarily contained to the hollows, people don't really treat them with the urgency other games would require. Yes they are full of terrifying monsters, but the monsters can't actually leave their hollows either, so people just go about their lives as if nothing changed.
@@SethAbercromby You have a point! But as I said in my previous video about horror, it's actually not true. These people just cope with the possibility that a Hollow can just expand at any moment, or if they suddenly fall into unknown smaller Hollows. That makes it even more disturbing. It's like living next to an active nuclear bomb with an unknown timer.
@@FeyHunt At the same time, hundreds of people lose their lives in traffic accidents every day, are you living in constant feat of every road crossing? If the threat is abstract and distant enough the mind is extremely good at pretending it's not there.
@@SethAbercromby I get your point, but I don't think the Hollows are as comparable to traffic accidents. If I stay at home all the time, I don't need to worry about getting hit by a car. That's not the case with the Hollow. There's nowhere truly safe in New Eridu. As the Interlude chapter have pointed out, you can send your sister to school one morning and she never came back, because a Hollow expands to consume the school. And then Koleda's Agent Story shows that they don't have any capabilities to map out or predict if a new Hollow is forming. You can have a hidden Hollow beneath a school. You can have a Hollow beneath your feet, ready to expand at any time. And then there's also the fact that they haven't been able to fully destroy a Hollow forever. Even if they can, their entire energy system relies on it.
Honestly, sixth street reminds me of a neighbourhood I used to live in. Even the subway being tucked in the corner has the same vibe. It's relatable. Also the OST is so chill when it needs to be and spicy when things gets heated. I don't mind wandering and checking out what the well designed NPC's are up to.
Yeah! You must lived in a very good city then! I wish my city were that integrated so I can just go anywhere through the station nearby. Then I'll just put on some headset and play ZZZ music. New Eridu in real life baby!
Even me, who is someone who has a priority point A to B mindset, I am not immune to getting attached to the atmosphere of the game. Thank you for putting it in words I can't explain to my friends, who dislike the game.
Haha, thank you for the kind words! I find it quite difficult to put my thoughts together when I was making this video. But I'm glad it resonates with you!
Another thing that I think helps a lot is the NPCs, not the Agents on their free time, but just the random NPCs, these are just civilians but still have unique designs, they don't feel like generic passerby number 32 like other games. You can move around and get a good glimpse at the level of detail a random civilian has, and it helps a lot that in different times of day or even different days of week they may be doing different stuff, it feels more like they are alive and have their own lives outside the player than the random guard that is always in the same spot no matter when you check on them. And while not all NPCs are like this (some need to stay in place for mechanics), the overall feeling is already there from the rest and helps them anyways.
This too! I was debating if I should include this in the video, but I finally decided against it since there's not a lot of NPCs that actually have routines I can record and show in the video. But you're totally right. Every NPC feels unique. It's not just a small limited presets reused time and time again. 😄😄
I remember just going around in Lumina Square, I keep encountering two students (Pink hair and black/brown hair with a cap) preparing and helping for their exams. Everytime I interact to listen the small story progresses and I was able to find them in different area, like the second floor of the cafe, outside of HIA, and near the milktea shop. Frankly I wanna see more of their story, because it's quite relatable as a student. As well as more small npc mini story that doesn't require Combat or Exploration in the HDD to progress. Another thing to add, in Sixth Street and Lumina Square, there are some lamp posts or posts that have a terminal box that are blocked by another lamp post or sign post is kinda funny, because I've seem some of them in irl because of poor planning and electricians are unable to open those boxes during maintenance.
@@princerosevelt Haha! I wonder if those are intentional design? There are places that made me chuckle or giddy too for weird reasons. My favorite was when I entered NEPD HQ and I looked at those automated queue ticket machine, I just giggling like a school girl. Or when I see some of the light switches and the fuse box on the walls. Man, I love this game!
I sometimes play ZZZ and everything you said in this video really feels good. I love the slice of life kinda feel. Only thing is that personally I am not feeling that great about combat and tv exploring ( at least not yet ).
@@matrixfull Yeah, there are some things ZZZ need to work on. My primary gripe is the grinding, which have bullcrap RNG and the amount of stamina needed to farm for everything. The story and vibe are top notch 👍👍
@@FeyHunt oh shit you havent? Well if you want good music and good vibes then it definitely should be your next game to play. Persona 5 Royal is a very good starting point.
@@deadbeatseikor0wonl1dance88 Well, my friends have been urging me to play it since I was in junior high. Never got a PC good enough to play it. Now I do, so I'll make time for it to catch up!
Really like how Hoyoverse always does the different. We're at the time where the most profitable is open world gacha games in these companies, then mihoyo released a hack n slash. Some will find it bad but those who liked it in times like this would definitely be a long time customer.
Yep! They do goes against the trend sometimes, betting on the market potential in each segment. When you do that, you have to make sure that your game is way better than the existing game in that market... which is usually is. HSR is a turn-based game beating any other turn-based gacha in the market by revenue. ZZZ is... well, I haven't actually figured out what it's competing against. I haven't seen exact paralel here...
I have GI, HSR and ZZZ in my system. GI since 3.1, HSR since 1.6 and ZZZ is the only gacha I started from day 1. GI emerges top in immersion to me because the excellent job they did with their open world and their main story is excellent. It's pretty weak in rewards on the flip side, leveling up characters up to speed is a little tough but pace is still acceptable. HSR ranks second for me in immersion. Though limited open space, it's still interesting to explore them. Main story gets confusing at times but still fine to follow, especially liked Acheron's story arc. Leveling of charcters seems the smoothest among the 3, the 1 thing I have no worry for in HSR as a F2P is the currency for leveling characters. GI's mora do feel tight at times but at least the dailies, lootables and events made up for the shortfalls. HSR took this and improved on it, I never felt a credit crunch in HSR ever, rarely a need to deliberately spend fuel to farm for credits, just occasional XP materials, the rest are through events and endgame. So leveling characters feels a lot better in HSR. ZZZ... small areas, significant lack of lootables, every major stuff post level 40 need major dennies and it's among the 3 basic materials that players are deprived. Combat missions don't give characters, weapons XP materials. Daily task rewards give a palpable 3000 dennies. Everything in this game is screaming for players to actively farm the 3 basic mats from their respective HIA domains using stamina. Now that I'm at Inter Knot 51, seeing the amount of basic mats to even bring my main 6 characters to L55 is already a huge turn off. I've not even considered the bangboo, skills and drive discs yet. Now in 1.1, I'm getting ready to see myself out of ZZZ. Gotten Soldier 11 in my latest pull, seriously, I used 16 ether fuel + 240 stamina to speed groom her out of curiosity, only managed to get her and her weapon to 40. Core skill C and skills between 5-7, Drive discs at L3 across board. I'm thinking, if fully relying on daily stamina alone, I'll probably be facing this huge material crunch with no end in sight at this rate. Every new character obtained will probably only be ready for action a month later from time of building commencement. The value returned from the effort put in vs the other 2 titles, ZZZ is right down at the bottom for me. In 1.0, I told myself, "Give it to 1.2," but now I doubt I can give it anymore time.
You raised some valid concerns. It does have its issues. The progression is very tight in this game, and the game just forces you to have multiple teams maxed out for every element. Otherwise, you'll struggle a lot in Hollow Zero or Shiyu Defense. It's fine to leave a game if you don't feel like it. In fact, I'm the exact opposite of you. I played Genshin from launch to 3.6, so around 2.5 years and I really hated how the story doesn't improve into an acceptable standards, especially the NPC Story Quest. I also tried HSR last month, but the combat just doesn't feel good. I don't feel the excitement in every combat or the satisfying feeling of defeating a hard encounter. It's all just numbers game to me, so I dropped it after finishing Belobog's main story arc.
@@FeyHuntNo worries, we all have different preferences. I just wish that the different teams managing each title in Hoyo would come together to share what works and what doesn't. Hoyo should have a very good grasp on balancing rewards after having 2 highly successful titles and years of feedback from those titles. I hope they would seriously work on improving the rewards, namely the required upgrading materials, in ZZZ.
@@leestefan2999 This! I feel like they didn't even try to communicate. It's almost as if every team is always starting over at the start. The lessons from past mistakes are repeated ad nauseam. Like the Honkai Impact 1st anniversary problem, also repeated in Genshin Impact 1st anniversary. I'm more interested in the writing and the gameplay mechanics. There are some buzz that Genshin is implementing ZZZ's substats locking for its artifact. So here's hoping things will change.
ZZZ has a gigantic amount of care put into it, nothing is recycled. I'm not talking about the fighting maps, because frankly, it doesn't matter if they reuse assets in a fighting map, it's not that important. In the walkable areas' I don't think i've seen the same asset used twice. It's just so impressive. Not to mention the amount and variety of art in this game omg
Yeah! They have gone so far from their Honkai Impact origin, where their "open world" is a bunch of recycled assets and low details. I want to see what they'll do when they have new explorable maps!
Actually yes, ZZZ world feels very cozy - it has both, modern vibes, as well as this comfy 80's-90's vibe - for both, millenials and GenZ. It's really a nice place to just be in.
@@FeyHunt yes, that's a good point. In Genshin, Star Rail many characters feel a bit too theatrical. Here, they feel more natural, especially in their environment (which is way more timid than high-fantasy and sci-fantasy of respective titles).
agree with everything that you stated for me its also an extrea after you play GI , HSR, WUWA during the day 1 less game to do exploration in just combat and chill
1:58 Exactly! What separates Genshin and Star Rail from ZZZ is the fact that their worlds are expansive in order to immerse players in an ever-expanding world. This is more apparent in the former, but one can argue that this is also present in Star Rail, given its space-opera genre. This is highly subjective on my part, but I feel like the lack of detail in the environments in Star Rail can work to put players in the Trailblazer's headspace; these planets and ships and worlds they're exploring do contain people worth caring about, but they are not their "home". They are treasured because they're part of a "tapestry" of memories they accumulate over their journey. On the other hand, the environments in ZZZ ARE homely. There are places the siblings are very intimately familiar with, and there are people who treasure them just as much as they themselves do. The shopkeepers are friendly and inviting, and even random NPCs have their own stories to tell. I feel that it's a smart decision for HYV to make the setting smaller in scale compared to the other two games mentioned, as it lends itself to creating more intimate memories and immersive stories with the characters. This reminds me of the Persona games, where the setting is usually a whole city or town, and the fighting (at least in 3 and onwards) takes place in a "separate" environment from the main setting. It's comfy. And sure, the cast will get bigger, and we may never know whether they will expand the story to the outside of New Eridu and beyond (besides the Outer Ring), but as of now, I'm liking what we got.
I do agree with both of your examples! But... here's my counter-example and feedback for the Star Rail team: I think they should make Astral Express much more homely with ZZZ's level of detail. Just for the Express. The rest of the environment can remain just as it is. The Express is supposed to be your home in this adventure. But from the few hours I have in there, I don't feel like I want to stay there for long. I just want to go to another world and meet new people. It should be a place where I want to rest for a bit, feel the family vibe they have going in there.
@@FeyHunt Oh yeah good point! The train being a sort of hub feels awfully minimalistic for a place where you can rest with your found family. It doesn't help that the Trailblazer barely visits the place aside from lore reasons or greeting the other characters visiting the Express. In fact, it'd actually be really nice to see them interact with the other members of the Astral Express, as proof that the bonds we forged extend to them aside from just the protagonist.
@@freshcorn1431 Yeah! I wouldn't mind if they adopted ZZZ's hangout system just for Astral Express crew. Or just add more side mission about them. Because so far, whenever we go back to Astral Express, it feels more like Yapping Express...
From the story, i would assume that the story has 2 directions to expand: - Horizontally, exploring some gray area/outskirt that mostly lawless and prone to Hollow case (Outer Ring) - Vertically, exploring the Depth of Hollow until it breached to extent layers, and, possibly into another world/dimension
@@TheWijasmara Yep! And they could switch between the two as the story demands it. It really comes down to when they start to increase the urgency factor. When they start putting a ticking clock, the story will switch to vertical. If not, then it's a relaxed horizontal exploration.
ZZZ's story telling is also alot more straight to the point and not a wall of text (and no skip button) like HSR. The latest HSR quest line got my face on my keyboard a few times.
Oh yeah! That's definitely one thing I want to cover in my next video. Show, don't tell is a big part of it as I've shown here in this video: ua-cam.com/video/GtD-vw0F0Y8/v-deo.html
@FeyHunt yea and also zzz is alot easier to understand for the builds and skills than HSR. HsR is literally a Wall if text simulator. With zzz being the oposite with the text being squish, probably due to how the Chinese language is formated in symbols instead of words. They just need to decrease the font size but even then I feel that with alot of hoyo games skill descriptions can be explained w/o alot of text in just point form Like for QY Spam Right click> meter> full> hold for dps Gof HSR needs this
@@exodus2oo That's part of the "forced complexity" that I don't like in Hoyo games. They want to keep the simple control layout, but they want to vary the effects. So they'll just stuff a wall of text on it and call it a day. That's not mentioning how HSR is just a number game to me. I don't feel there's any strategy involved once you grind enough. I don't feel engaged. Meanwhile in ZZZ, even if you have grinded to max crit and dmg ratio, you still need to dodge, attack, combo them.
Very well said! The thing i wanna say is beside details, i love how they don't stretch the environment and going for that 1:1 scale I realized this in genshin when i saw a macaroon is the size of paimon's head, then i notice other things like door that can fit giant, a bed for 10, etc (especially in Fontaine) it's just ridiculous but yeah i guess that's how they make the open world seems big and spacious hsr kinda tone it down probably because it's not exactly OW (i think it's called closed world, same with zzz) and wuwa arguably worse to compensate the unlimited stamina
Thank you for the kind words! The scaling issue has always been video game trope for a good reason. Items have to be big so it can easily be seen from afar. The building scaling is to minimize the empty space that would happen if you try to match the scale of the buildings indoor and outdoor. It's very funny is HSR when you're in Herta Space Station, where you can see that Astral Express is so tiny. ZZZ tried its best to not stretch it too far, but you can still see it when you enter NEPS HQ building. It's way bigger on the inside. And since ZZZ doesn't have pickable items, we don't exactly have things to compare it to.
@@FeyHunttrue, scaling issues happen in most video games and zzz is no exception as you mentioned, I guess I'm just biased because I love 6th street and the video store anyway I just watched some of your other videos, 1sub your content + voice and tone are just my taste and I appreciate you actively interacting with commenters if I had to nitpick, your videos are too short lol
@@FrezASH5 Haha, thank you so much! Yeah... I am aware of the length. It's actually because I can't fully commit to long videos. I get stressed out when a project is stuck in development hell. Plus, I haven't found any recent topics that would require me to speak at length. If I can get my point across in a short time, I don't see why I should waste your time. Plus, I kinda hate editing so... ehe. Still! If I do find a topic that would do well in a longer format, I think I will try making longer content. You can think of these short videos as a strategy for me to get more clicks and build up a community of passionate people that can discuss the topics I presented with a level head. I don't know about you, but seeing a 4-hour essay video really scares me! 🤣🤣
@@FeyHunt that's just my way to say why such good video has short duration You don't have to force yourself to make long video if the topic is not supposed to be long, this video for example where you just show your opinion lol I also rarely watch those 4 hours video essay, 20-30 minutes is ideal for me like your Arknights x Monster Hunter crossover video, you rant about this and that but keep it to the point but there's a lot you need to point out which makes the video longer
Yeah... some people just speed by the flowers and then get upset because they didn't see any flowers. I was one of them, but I've learned to slow down and enjoy the scenery when I'm playing these games. It's like I'm paying tribute to the artists that made this game real.
They borrowed Atlus's tried and true Persona format, and made it into their own beautiful creation. Star Rail is my favorite gacha game overall, BUT the world of Zenless is the one I feel the most cozy with logging into every day. The level of details, the social interactions, the amusing dialogue, THE MUSIC... if they took ALL of the combat out I wouldn't even feel that bad if I could just do VN style cut scenes and have new social events once in awhile.
Yeah! It takes an awful lot of work and skill to pull off what they did. I'm genuinely impressed. It also makes me wanna play Persona since I haven't done that.
Urban modern world in persona 3 and 5 and zenless zone zero are great, but a small town in persona 4 and (different thing but) Hinamizawa in higurashi visual novel will be always my favourites. I wish a modern higher budget gatcha game from hoyoverse/hotta studios/kuro games (or a Japanese developer) will be based on that "japanese inaka in the 90s" atmosphere.
I would say ZZZ does it quite well, since I never see those games myself. OG players kinda compare it with Jet Set Radio. I have to check those games myself to see it then! 😄
Another thing that helps, to me at least, that there feels like there's more variety in the ZZZ NPC crowds compared to most other games. They're much more willing to sprinkle distinguishing details like more varied clothes, accessories, and hair colors onto the no name background characters, which makes them feel more like realistic groups of people, while the shopkeeper NPCs have designs that are halfway towards being as detailed and unique as the actually playable characters, leaving a strong impression. I can remember half of the Sixth Street store owners off of the top of my head if randomly asked, but I can't really say the same for really any other game world now that I think about it.
Yep! That is a big part of it. It also helps that the NPCs are all acting like a big family. Everyone knows each other well. I was actually going to include this point in the video, discussing how the NPCs have certain routines and style, but I kinda cut it out at the last moment, since my explanation was not good enough.
I agree that details really do set apart video games from others. One of the reasonsI love about ZZZ is that it is very similar to Cyberpunk 2077 when it comes to detail and vibe. Also, I'm a fan of innovative ideas being done right. The Monitor Array is a fantastic experience for myself. In addition, the time-of-day based events brings back the harvest moon nostalgia.
Yeah! Details and stylization does play a big role in making the game feels unique. My biggest concern is that they've been hearing a lot of feedback to reduce or remove entirely the monitor array gameplay.
I just wish there's not that much loading screen. I hate when I check every single location to look for something interesting cus I have to suffer multiple loading screens. I don't have that much issue in hsr cus the loading screen is so quick I barely noticed it. Maybe this is just me problem tho cus my drive is not that fast for today's standards.
Oof, yeah... Now that I think about it, I think I will suffer a lot if I did install this game on an HDD. I think SSD is highly recommended, otherwise you will wait a lot when you just want to craft upgrade materials.
Bro my friends thought I was crazy for saying Wuthering Wave’s world felt empty and rushed. Yes, graphically everything looked great, but there was obviously a lack of attention to really make the world feel “alive”. It was just kind of thrown together to create a passable open world setting. Had trouble putting it into words before, but this video sums it up quite nicely by showing what they’re lacking and on the contrary, what Hoyoverse is so good at. In every Hoyoverse game since Genshin, I feel like you could stop and take a screenshot anywhere and it’ll look nice and feel like a realistic setting, albeit in a fictional universe.
@@ICM9 Yeah, WuWa's world just feel too gamey at times. It feels like an MMO world design where different spots are made for questing and sprinkled with enemies. But that's it. My biggest pet peeve was that they didn't do more with the world itself. Like, okay... You see a ruined city in Port Guixu. Why not create a quest that explore the downfall of this city as a warning to Jinzhou? Then there's the Tiger's Maw Mine. Why not create a quest where you explore the founding of the mines? Why does Lampylumen is so important to Jinzhou? There's so much potential here. That being said, there are times where I stopped to look at the scenery. I do remember how I take a nice slow walk up on the mountain behind Jinzhou, and A LOT more on Mount Firmament. That island is so beautiful.
@@FeyHunt Yeah, totally agree 100% There definitely are some very scenic areas in the game, but as you said the rest of it you can feel that lack of attention. Thanks for the response and great video btw!
like it or not Hoyo is genius Genshin was a gamble for them it's the most ambicious mobile gacha to ever coem out and when it work they decide to do something else while.genshin successfully bait everyone to do openworld RPG leave other genre wide open for Hoyo to take over
Haha, I'm sure they figured that out accidentally and after the fact. But essentially, they have created a massive moat around their business. Now, if you want to make a popular gacha game, you have to create it at their quality level or higher. That's almost impossible unless you have like a billion dollar or something.
Not necessarily. It all comes down to asset reuse and optimization. Yes, there's gonna be a size increase, but not as much as you may think. The bigger issue is the workhour needed to make that detailed look. Your artists salary is gonna balloon up really quickly.
@@FeyHunt ohh is that so! I think I get it, just make the assets not as detailed but put them there a lot (with reasoning and logic in mind) to make the place look filled?
@@goodietwoshoes7238Yes! That's how open-world games like Genshin work! It's not about the detail, it's about the right amount and variation to make it look filled. Of course, there's also some other design principles and some trickery you can do with game engines. If we want to go a bit more technical, 3D models are not really the biggest thing in the game files. It's the textures used on those models. But it also pales in comparison to the number of voice lines used in the game. Given the same amount, voicelines always consume the most memory.
Actually, the MC being playable in combat is a recent trend with the rise of 3D gacha games. Before that, it was always MC directing playable characters, especially in older gacha games where it's just a screen of buttons and menus. It seems we're going back to that era with ZZZ. Variations are always good 😄
Honestly, I think in a lot of respects, this game is just genuinely amazing compared to most games in regards to the vibes of its setting and characters-- whether those game be gachas or AAA blockbusters. I think the writing also deserves a lot of credit. Most of the characters feel real in some aspect or another. Some more so than others, but I can't think of any that just feel 2-Dimensional. Even though most are based on common archetypes or tropes, they are still relatable. I've seen a lot of anxious characters like Corrin for example, but she's one of the few characters I've seen that feels relatable to me as someone that has social anxiety. When I'm talking to her and cheering her on, it feels like the conversations I have had with myself or with my friends trying to push them on to better themselves. Even really simple characters, like Billy, feel enjoyable to spend time with. I'd love to play some competitive Snake with or against Billy irl! He's my bro fr.
Yeah, they REALLY nailed down the vibe for the story and the environment in this game. Hoyoverse has always been great at using tropes as the basis of their characters, but ZZZ goes a step further to give them screen time to show their quirks in various hangouts and an overall smaller cast. If you're interested, my previous video covers why ZZZ is an expert in their worldbuilding: ua-cam.com/video/GtD-vw0F0Y8/v-deo.html Plus, my next video will cover why the writing is so good from a more wholistic approach.
Never thought in my life that someone mention Not Just Bikes and Zenless Zone Zero in a same video lol. I've watched so many SoL animes to the point I realized that the devs are inspired by japanese city layout. Of all hoyogames, 6th street is the place the most I want to live in. ("Less drama" is a heavy word to claim. Maybe you shouldnt claim it yourself and let others judge you that)
Haha, it just so fitting when I watched their latest video on Japanese layout and then ZZZ came out. My mind immediately jump to that. As for that "less drama" mention, I am just putting out what other people are saying in my last videl. Apparently, gacha game youtubers are so into discussing drama that people just had enough. I'm just not interested in making those drama content unless there's something new I can teach and showcase. All of my videos recently are always about breaking down what makes a game good. Of course, if people don't like me saying that quiet part outloud, I will stop saying that 😄😄
@@FeyHunt I have a request here. Can you analyze hoyo's story quests ? Genshin has been criticized for highlighting their NPC too much, aka NPC story quest. And I think zzz is showing the same syndrome. But I heard wuwa avoids that. I dont have wuwa bcs lowspec hardware and I cant take another gacha lol Emilie's story quest is actually interesting, but I cant get the idea of it being npc story quest out of my head
@@raihanrusli2720I'd like to say it's old vs new game bias tbh yes, genshin character quest sucks for the past 3 years because it highlight an NPC and not the character themselves, but if you go back and remember those early character quest it actually about said character we got Amber make gliding license, Lisa book collecting, Kaeya treasure hunt, Mona walks to Mondstadt, etc it is a shame we only get to see what the character would do with an NPC situation rather than get to know the character through the character situation themselves right now this is a bad presentation of show, don't tell lol
@@raihanrusli2720 Oh yes... it's definitely on my list. I have a HUGE problem with NPC STORY QUEST. And it really pissed me off that Genshin's influence had spread into WuWa and into ZZZ! Whenever I drop that video, you bet I'll explode! 😡😡
@@FrezASH5 It's actually downright insulting bait and switch. You are promised an adventure with a character, and then it's actually an NPC Story Quest. If you can't tell, I have such a huge beef with their kind of writing. Look forward to that video when it drops out. 😡😡
It took me 159 pulls to get Qingyi. Tell me, did I win? 😢 Anyways, I'm done with open-world games. Yeah, they were nice at first. But who has time to explore and collect everything just to get pulls nowadays? Especially now where time and money is extremely hard to manage. Not this working gamer.
That's what I feel after playing Genshin from launch to v3.6 for 2.5 years. New areas felt like a chore. Everyone needs a break. Too much of anything isn't good for us.
the persona vibes, the music, quick gameplay, interesting waifu designs, zzz easily added to my gacha active list. hsr, zzz, & afkj. sorry wuwa. It was fun while it lasted. either wuwa or gi, but i decided to drop wuwa. i still have attachment to gi. opening the game at least 1s a week.
All the things listed are really there and executed decently. The question remains as to how the developers will develop this world. At this point, I'm getting tired of seeing Corin trying to call out Ellen in Lumia Square or Zhu Yuan at the flower shop.
Yeah, that's why I really want them to keep adding new encounters, maybe it unlocks slowly after every main chapters. I've already met Corin 4 times to yell for that bag! I don't need more yelling! This point kinda breaks immersion a bit, admittedly.
@@FeyHunt I'm mostly talking about vibes. Atlus has been employing many of the techniques you discuss here since Persona 3 (probably even earlier), but it all culminated in Persona 5.
@@YoloTub3 True! My suggestion is that they have different level of detail options in the graphic settings for different hardware. I want to be able to see like 100 people crossing in Lumina Square!
Zzz npc are so good i haven't found (or noticed) any of them having the same model, and even better that they're each having small detail which making them quiet stand out and even comparable to playable characters
They do have a wider array of models. But I do have found multiple exact same NPCs at the same location in Random Play. Then there's that girl with pink bra and leggings who usually walk along Sixth Street and sits on Lumina Square. It's not a problem though! It's already far better than Genshin!
tbh i don't want to live there, full city no wild, random void area that can destroy you anytime, no thank what makes me login everyday in this game is the fighting system that feels so good
I mean... the city is pretty big though. There's even an icy region in the north, a huge farmland area that supports the entire city. I bet there's also huge forest area too for the woods needed to run a city. There's a big chance that you live in a city in real life as well, so living in new Eridu will not be too different, aside from the constant Hollow danger. I still have some issues in the fighting system, primarily when to dodge or switch. Sometimes it doesn't even register a switch attack even though I time the yellow flashes right.
great video but i have to add that these revenue charts are Mobile only and since Genshin came to PC that platform has become a big part of that market especially with the added push of WuWa. I think it's fair to say that all current Hoyo and Kuro Games have a big playerbase on PC and depending on the game it might even be close to the mobile playerbase count if not more for certain games or future ones. Most content creators also play on PC and many people follow in their footsteps especially since PC has become a lot more accessible to many people so i think it's fair to say that a lot of big spenders and dedicated players are on PC. I think it's at least important to mention this because this chart leaves out a whole platform that is very important.. not just that it also leaves out consoles since some of them are or will release on consoles too. But to be honest that makes seeing the income of these games even more impressive because all of these games actually profit even more than "just" that.
Good point! I'm glad we're starting to see the shift back to PC for these AAA quality games. I never like playing on phones, since the screen is so limited and the neck pain is unbearable. We're living in the golden age for high quality gacha games!
This game design is simply too good for a gacha game, it inspires more future gacha games to push their effort. Too bad that the current generation of kids prefer instant gratification in and out speed run, they don't appreciate in the aesthetic designs but focuses more on how fast they can get to the climax of any game so then they can quit and go play another game in a repeated cycle.
And then they complained that the game sucks... tale as old as time. Some people just love to speed past through a field of flowers and then complain that they didn't see any flowers. I was one of them. That's why I've been making conscious effort to slow down and admire the scenery. It's like I'm paying tribute to the great artists behind these games.
I hadn't really given ZZZ a chance because the characters don't quite suit my tastes. They all look amazing, but to my eyes they look "weird" - like that girl with a shark tail... not sure what's going on there. But I want to give the music a try - in fact Genshin's music was why I tried the game (that and it was free to play). I'm going to try listening to ZZZ's music for a bit and see if it hooks me. If it does, I'll try the game. :)
Sure thing! I mean when they first announced ZZZ, I thought I wasn't at all interested in its retro-modern setting. But once I gave it a try, the story got me hooked! The music is pretty good, but it's best enjoyed in context with the environment. The combat does get you hyped and the environment got you relaxed. The combat is on the simpler side. It's just mostly memorizing a bit of combo and timing your dodges. It's enough complexity to keep you engaged, but not hard enough to frustrate you. The only thing I hated is how they imported Genshin/Star Rail's artifact system into this game as well, with substats RNG. But I really try to not care about that system, even if I'll be dealing suboptimal damage. That's my 200 words review for the game!
@@FeyHunt I have heard the story is surprisingly good. I am intrigued by the setting - the Hollows, New Eridu, and so on. Heck... I'm buying a PS5 soon and I'll give ZZZ a whirl. Been listening to the music for a few hours and it slaps. :)
@@John_II Damn! That's a bold investment! 😄😄 Although, knowing PS5's few selection of exclusives, I'd say it's worth considering getting a PC instead. Almost all of PS5 games is available at PC right now. But PS5 is still a far cheaper option at the moment for similar performance, unless you want to go secondhand parts picking. Steamdeck is also a good alternative.
i'm the same way. at first i just glance the the art and design of zzz and think it probably wasn't for me. but boy i was so wrong. i love zzz and the characters and the world that hoyo make here. the music is definitely a big part of it and i don't even listen to a lot of electronic music stuff which there's quite a few on zzz. but i love it. i played wuwa since launch and probably could only remember 1 or 2 songs from it, but probably i could hum all zzz ost. i hope you'll give it a chance. you might be surprise.
I don't think ZZZ was designed to save Hoyoverse money. While it does have a smaller scope compared to Genshin it's pretty clear that the money saved in that area was redirected towards the amount of detail, high quality animation, official content, art style/music and overall polish.
Not exactly. I think I should've included this in the video. The biggest production cost for Genshin is in making new regions every 9 months or so. It takes a whole lot of manhours and a big team to do that. Meanwhile, ZZZ is made to keep reusing the same map over and over again. That's where the savings comes from. Animation and polish is not really that expensive, especially if you have animators in-house. But of course, without seeing their expenses, we can't say for sure how much they pay their animators. Only time will tell. They will certainly tell us in an interview if ZZZ's production cost balloon up beyond Genshin. But I doubt that will ever happen.
@@FeyHunt I agree that Genshin likely costs more overall but what I meant is that ZZZ's smaller scope allows Hoyo to allocate more resources into the other aspects of the game. I don't think ZZZ or Star Rail was designed for the purpose of saving money but I agree that not having as grand of a scale as Genshin means that their production costs will be lower.
@@acuilnos And that is exactly what I'm talking about when I said saving money. Saving money in terms of not spending as much as Genshin. Optimizing their return on investment.
@@FeyHunt I don't think it was designed for that express purpose though, and the game itself shows how they are re-investing some of the money saved into other areas of the game. I think you are grossly underestimating just how much "animation and polish" actually costs. If it wasn't that expensive then how come ZZZ is being hailed as a standout in the gacha space even when compared to Genshin and HSR for these very reasons?
@@acuilnos You already said it yourself. It's the polish that causes it to stand out above the rest. The thing is, gacha game production is a huge conveyor belt of endless content. Quality is NEVER their number one priority. Quantity is the only way to feed players' hunger for content. This is the reason why a lot of times, gacha game events or mini-games are just so filled with problems. They just don't have time to polish it, to playtest. My best guess is that ZZZ has a bigger leniency on this part. The thought is: "We already save so much money by lowering production scope, so let's spend an extra 30% on polish". And it shows. You would be insane to think that this ZZZ polish costs 3-4x extra work hours than Genshin's average quality. I think you grossly underestimated the amount of workhour needed to make a whole nation in Genshin. To put it in perspective, here's my guess on how much ZZZ costs to make: an initial $70-120 million with a yearly running cost around that same amount. I'm a bit rusty since it's been several years since I worked in the industry. But from Genshin's scope, I can confidently make that guess.
idk if its fair to compare genshin selling from march 2024 since it was patch 4.5 which was a patch before a character that has been teased and anticipated for 2 years coming next in 4.6, also genshin does not have 2 characters every single patch
We can talk statistics all we like, but that's not the point why I made that statement. It's just to highlight that ZZZ has the potential to follow in Genshin's footsteps. And to be honest, I'm not interested in comparing incomes and revenues of every game to find out what's the best gacha game. I'm only interested in looking at its story and gameplay.
"this game is made to save money" Meanwhile Da Wei even joked about how expensive the game is in the pre-launch special program.😂 They just put their budget into other aspects of the game. The small environments are far more polished and creative, characters have their own unique skeletons and models instead of being built on the same five skeletons and base models, the rigging and animations are far higher quality, NPCs are so much higher quality you need to closely examine at times to see if it's a playable model or an NPC, every new S-rank gets a music video specifically made for them, cutscenes are insanely high quality etc. Genshin being so much more expensive is about what a ludicrous resource sink open world games are, especially on the level of polish and variety Genshin's open world has. Open world is a genre, not just a trendy feature to tack on. With the ludicrous time and workforce that such an open world's development demands put into other aspects of a game you get a better polished, immersive and higher production value product at every aspect of the game.
Hi! I'm not sure if you understand my point in the video, because you do point out things that seems to agree with me, but also seems to explain things that I have already known... When I said "save money", I mean to cut cost from having another Genshin-level of production cost. It's an opportunity cost. Of course, both ZZZ and HSR are expensive to develop. But it's not as expensive as Genshin. The biggest cost in Genshin is in the need to make new game maps every 9 months or so. As far as I know from working in game development, character modelling and animations are nowhere close to environment design for an open world game. That's why I made the point in the video that I sincerely doubt that they want another open world game.
I haven't played Persona 5, so I wouldn't know. But if I heard it right, Persona did have a small open world where you hang out with friends and the other world where you fight monsters. If that's what you mean, then yeah it's quite similar!
I am the one person that despises dubstep music, it just sounds like incoherent farting sound in my ears. But when i played this game, i never expected dubstep music will sound so good paired with intense battle gameplay😅
I also really hate dubstep. It's just a mess that got me headaches, or reminded me of 2010s youtuber intros. But ZZZ does it well to amp me up for the battle, especially at the end of the Hollow Zero run! I wish I had learned music theory to explain why!
Marketing and payroll mostly. Servers are relatively cheap. As a rule of thumb, marketing (ads, creator program, promotional events, etc) costs about 20-50% of a mobile game budget. And payrolls, well... you can just multiply their 1000-2000 employees and their work hours. Artists and programmers cost a lot.
I think it's one of the points in your video. It's a bit much like real-life, whereas I'd probably prefer somewhat more wild/gamey. It also feels too small at times. But rather than aesthetic, it's stuff like random stairs that you can walk up, then different stairs you can't (when there's barely any difference) that ruin any kind of immersion you'd get out of it being real-world like. And some invis walls, like at the road block that you totally can't walk around (but HSR has worse invis walls) And, while not entirely world related, the game likes forcing the social aspect onto me, I am sometimes trying to get from one place to another, and I am suddenly thrown into an unexpected dialogue.
@@jurajojo2543 Hmmm... You do raise some valid points. The first one and the invisible wall is a matter of taste, so I can't argue for that, especially if you're not used to small open worlds. Personally, I didn't find that to be an annoyance, more like wishing "oh, I wish I can go there!". For the social aspect though, it is the major selling point of the game. Maybe some of it are forced against you, but I would argue that is part of the experience. Like if you're currently running errands and then a friend suddenly interrupt you midway. The argument is still valid, though. There should be a way for you to hit snooze if you don't want to do this right now. Maybe if certain quest can only be completed when it's selected in the Quest screen.
Just for sharing at your point 1:11, the answer is NO. Genshin, HSR and Zenless are project that delivered at the same time on a same table. Hoyo explore variety of genre instead focusing on one. Otaku exist and interest in many form. To reach all Otaku, you need medium for all form. But the allocation of team are based on 70:25:5. Even if Genshin failed on first day, HSR still will be launched.
Again, this is a debate I had with other commenters. Yes, it's diversification to avoid cannibalizing their own playerbase. But it could also be financially motivated. This is a chicken and egg question. The question is: Is decision to NOT make open world games because of budget limitation at the start of the project? Or are they given infinite budget to make another open world but choose not to? Without asking them directly, we don't know for sure. I think it's a mixed of both. It's both to diversify and to optimize their production cost.
Not necessarily! As I said in the video, more details doesn't mean high quality textures or high poly models. ZZZ manage to achieve that vibrant world by reusing assets all around. It all comes down to optimization and compression. Which is a big problem for Call of Duty developers apparently. I won't deny that would cause storage issues in the long run, but it's just the downside you'll get with live service games. You'll get new maps, more characters, more enemy models with every updates.
Personally, i enjoy genshin world more than zzz, like just walking to narukami shrine for example. For urban modern world, i enjoy Persona5 and GTA V to the point that i want to live there. I acknowledge zzz is very polished experience and higly detailed world, but idk its not penetrating my heart enough. zzz has more "real" cutscene compared to genshin standing while talking repeating the same 5 animations
And it's totally okay! My videos are by no means trying to invalidate your preferences. I'm just pointing out things that make it good. Maybe some future developers are listening so they can make their games a lot better. One of my commenters in the last video is referring to those standing around talking as "gently undulating torso dialogue scenes" 🤣🤣
Awesome video that summarizes most of my thoughts on the game's world in only 8 minutes. Though, however, I don't think its fair to say "the real world sucks so we need game worlds to immerse ourselves in to feel better" in my opinion. After all, the game itself already presents us with believable alternate negative emotions that we feel about in the real world as well and that is ALSO part of how it is made believable. I'm sorry if this comes off as rude, but it's tiring seeing people always glorify positive feelings because we're humans. We relate to both positive and negative feelings and alienating negative feelings only makes game worlds less believable imo. Great example of that is the story I just finished in the game, which was Rina's story. *Spoiler warning* The game didn't present us with a magical way to cure granny's illness. Instead, it ended on a bittersweet note, where we can only hope for a cure to be found in the future. Anyway, I don't want my comment to end on a mostly negative note so I'll just say that overall I absolutely loved your video and you have talked about most of my issues with worlds in other gacha games. Emotional balance is always good for us
Oh no, I am not saying that it's all have to be positive emotion. After all, video games do have its sad moments. Video game escapism give you something real life cannot: control. Even at the worst point of the game, you still have control over what you're doing. There's no risk of failure, nor there is anyone rushing you to do stuff. That's not the case for real life. This is why a lot of people find solace when their real life are in such a dark path. I have heard many people who are saved just because they play video games.
@@FeyHunt I see where you're coming from now and it looks like I interpreted the last section of your video in a different way. I usually see people saying "real life sucks and games exist to help forget about it" as a way to justify completely running away from their real life problems to enter a world full of sunshine and rainbows, resulting in some games being completely out of touch with reality and not being believable anymore. But it looks like you were talking about the mechanics of the game rather than the content itself, which I totally agree with. As an example, one of my favourite games, Celeste, is full of negative emotions in the story itself, but in the gameplay you always get back up and are given a quick chance to continue playing. Thanks for replying 🤗and great job on the video again.
@@loafofbred656 No worries! Yes, some people are addicted to video games and treat them more like a drugs to escape their real-life responsibilities. That's not great. But then some people are in hard times and just want to have that tiny bit of sunshine to keep pushing onwards. To have that one moment every day that they can look forward to. That's what I'm fighting for in this feedback, to have better-made worlds. Perhaps too grandiose, even to my standards. It's also quite ironic that we escape our own problems by solving another problem in another world. Speaking of Celeste, I have that game for a long time, but I'm a little bit concerned that I may hurt my fingers again. The last time I played a precision platformer, I got my thumb all blistered from the endless repeat trial and error...
Well, I wouldn't go that far... You can compare the hangout events with Stardew, but that's pretty much it. Combat has always been the forefront of all Hoyo games. And for their action games, they did design it well to be satisfying.
The world is rather boring for me. It’s the music, combat and fan service that has me hooked 😂 I haven’t seen fan service like this since the early 00s and I have never played a game with combat this tight.
I suppose it's to each our own. Music is on point, but combat and fanservice? I think it's still great, but definitely not the best in the industry. If fanservice gacha is what you're looking for, you're really missing out on Blue Archive, NIKKE, and Azur Lane. They literally had 18+ toys as part of an outfit for their characters. Fanservice in ZZZ is weak sauce compared to that. That being said, they had a little bit too much fun over there that I'm genuinely afraid of them... I do agree that the combat is tight and satisfying, but it still kinda lacks that final sauce. Maybe because it's really all about timing your dodges?. I still prefer Wuthering Waves at its peak spiciness. You can easily die at the high-level trials.
@@FeyHunt I’m really not a fan of mobile games, so Hoyo games are the only ones I’ve ever liked and BA/AL aren’t really to my liking 😅 Haven’t gotten to really play WuWa yet, would like to. Console gamer, lacking suitable phone/PC. I haven’t ever played anything like ZZZ, the combat just pounds. It’s not so much the mechanics or gameplay of the combat, it’s the visuals and the sound design that all meshes with it. When you do a quick assist and you’re blocking multiple attacks from a boss and it’s just slamming and the slow motion dodged. It’s all very intense. My first clear of Withering Garden on level 11 had my heart pounding and left me shaking, been a long time since a game has done that to me 😂
@@rickybobby5153 Oh I totally get that satisfying clang! It is what keeps me going as I break through the bosses! You're in for a treat, my friend. Mobile games are no longer cheap 2D Waifus. It's now on par with AAA quality games from the west. This is the golden age of gacha gaming, and I'm all for it!
@@FeyHunt Golden age of anime games in general I think. I never even liked any of them before Genshin. They were always so clunky - like the Bandai games I’d tried. All of these games coming out are really ground breaking. Maybe even a new golden age of RPGs in general, China is dominating, like I said I haven’t seen fan service like this since the early 00s from JRPGs. It’s refreshing to be as excited for games again as I was when I was a hormonal teenager 😂
@@rickybobby5153 Haha, yeah! I've been watching the indie space for Eastern games, which has been booming for a decade. It's good that they finally break through to mainstream now! And I'm gonna try as much as I can! I want to see how much they nailed the story and gameplay.
In game design, you can have the same regular world and stylize it differently. You can design it in a way where it's a mess or an absolute masterpiece. In this video, I was highlighting the charm put in this world. If you don't see that charm while playing it, then perhaps this game is not to your taste.
But we can and should compare games to discuss its key points though. That is how we can judge which game is for us. There are a lot of things where WuWa failed at like the story when compared to ZZZ. But there are also things that can only be done right in WuWa, like its open world design and its environmental storytelling. No game is above criticism.
Hoyoverse doesn't want another genshin -level game in their catalog? What is "genshin-level game" exactly lol? Have you ever think it is because they want to capture different players that don't want genshin instead?
Genshin-level in terms of budget and scope. You have a point, they do want to capture different playerbase and avoid cannibalizing their own game's captive audience. But you can't disprove that it was also financially motivated, where they want to make games with lower budget and optimize their return on investment. Here's my big question to you: they could easily make Star Rail and ZZZ an open world game while still maintaining their combat design. But they chose not to, and opting for a closed world instead. Why is that? I bet a lot of players would love an open world Honkai Star Rail where you can seamlessly travel in Penacony or drive with your car in New Eridu.
@@FeyHunt Because two open world game simultaneously will eat each game playtime too much probably, good open world exploration in other game means people can enjoy spending time in that game instead of genshin. Hoyo doesn't want this, that is why auto battle in hsr, and 10 minutes daily in zzz. Hoyo wants players to play several of their games simultaneously and they know players have limited time.
@@Richkero1995 That's part of it, as I already said to avoid cannibalizing their own captive audience's time. But we are now stuck discussing about a chicken and egg problem here: design choice first or financial motivation first? Obviously, financial consideration always comes before a project design is made, one of them being the production budget. So is their choice to not make another open-world game happen because of the financial decision to limit the production budget. Or were they given enough budget to make another open-world game, but they chose not to? I don't think we can verify this without a direct statement from Hoyoverse. if you do find them, please let me know. But I bet the answer is somewhere in between.
Honestly, I don’t see how other gacha games can pull off these three aspects as well as Zenless Zone Zero. I hope I'm wrong.
All sources for this video are linked below:
Video by Not Just Bikes:
Not Just Bikes - The Secret to Japan's Great Cities: ua-cam.com/video/jlwQ2Y4By0U/v-deo.html
References:
[1] Genshin earned 5 billion dollars so far: www.pocketgamer.biz/genshin-impact-is-the-fastest-ever-game-to-pass-5-billion-consumer-spend
[2] Polygon - Statement in Hoyoverse Lawsuit www.polygon.com/24063498/genshin-impact-hackers-sued-canada-court
[3] Genshin running cost is roughly around 700 million. Check Wikipedia sources: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_expensive_video_games_to_develop
[4] Calculating Genshin Cost of Production: www.reddit.com/r/Genshin_Impact/comments/wiyz7k/in_a_few_weeks_from_now_genshin_impact_will_be/
[5] Reddit Sensor Tower Report March 2024: www.reddit.com/r/gachagaming/comments/1bt0d2a/sensor_tower_monthly_revenue_report_mar_2024
[6] Reddit Sensor Tower Report July 2024: www.reddit.com/r/gachagaming/comments/1ehf41f/sensor_tower_monthly_revenue_report_july_2024/#lightbox
Music used in this game:
- Zenless Zone Zero - Turbo
- Zenless Zone Zero - Endless Construction Night
- Zenless Zone Zero - 60% Daily Serenity
- Zenless Zone Zero - 60% Fantasy
other gacha game always use the same trope
the MC lost its memory and then proceed to save the world because he/she is the only one who can or the chosen one
its been like this since 2015 i believe
zzz is more like a classic jrpgs where we play a certain role
@@aryabarry7127 Yeah! I'm wondering if this is a sign that the trend is changing since everyone in the industry is watching Hoyoverse closely...
Neverness to everness is the the same like ZZZ but open world
@@samuel30853s So I've heard! I guess they're going against Project Mugen from NetEase as well. Same concept.
I feel like ZZZ is an actual passion project of dev team there's so many thing that they don't need to add but they do
Walking around the world of zenless during different times of the day and encountering different npcs feels so weirdly natural? Aswell as talking to those npcs isn't just a boring dialogue, most NPCs give you quests, some give you those HIA coins, while some talk about what they're doing there. The fact that we can actually see and talk to the playable characters in game as NPCs is such a nice touch and I actually care about walking around the maps and feel connected to the maps and the characters. I also kinda love the fact our main characters are just normal people living the double life of a proxy, so instead of NPCs first dialogue being,"OH MY GOD IT'S THE PROXY". We have something more chill and normal
Yep, yep! We're just vibing with our bros every day. Take every day easy, and just have fun! There has never been a gacha game this good at making you feel that you're part of their world.
@@FeyHunt Definitely! I have never been so immersed in the world of a gacha game before and I hope we see more games follow this vibe. Hoping that Neverness to Everness will be good at this aswell....
One big thing that stood out to me is I've even unlocked quests just through seeing an NPC stand out in a certain location and speaking to them across several in-game days, where things change and their story develops. Stuff like this in other games my reaction is usually "well how was I ever gonna figure this one out?!" but in ZZZ with the gameplay loop in the overworld encouraging you to keep visiting locations everyday and interact, it just felt like a completely natural progression. I was talking to the NPC because I wanted to talk to them, I hadn't even realised it would unlock a commission until the very end!
@@ryofsun That's also such a nice little thing they added
@@ryofsun Oh, I didn't know that's a thing! I should talk to more NPCs then!
also the amount of just incredible unique art they put in the game is incredible every feels like its been made by anothet individual and not just conforming to a single artstyle
I agree! It's honestly a great showcase on how art team should work. Sometimes you get 3D models, sometimes you get 2D comics. It keeps things fresh!
Music theory and such is part of my job, as well as audio cataloging for a company out here in Japan (its a games company, that's all that is needed to be said).
One of the really important things to basically create a feeling of "home", is to have your music match your visuals in a way that relates important details. The Sixth Street music follows a few really easy but smart mental tricks in it's music. Firstly...it has an nearly vacation vibe. If you've ever seen old cartoons, when they did vacation episodes, they did Hawaii luau music. This is because the tropical, and "sunset" aesthetic are what we mentally link with conform and relaxation. The timing of the track is important too. It sounds slow, but it isn't. The backing beat is actually pretty fast, but the main track itself is slower, leading to the mental idea of "While the world is fast, here is slow", which reinforces it a lot and helps keep that. If you listen to the tracks for other areas, they don't follow the same ideas a Sixth Street because that one area alone is meant to be "home". Slow, comfy, sitting on a rooftop, watching the sun set over a city you know, but don't know. That hazy feeling of a holiday escape where everything feels right, but you actually don't know anything. Yet you feel safe. I love it. It's comfy.
@@Aproximal Thanks for the breakdown! I didn't know that two different speed for backbeat and main melody is a thing in music. And some courses I saw about music theory led to believe that only complex chord progressions can make good music.
I have some more follow up question if you don't mind. What about the chord progression? Is there anything significant about ZZZ that makes it distinct?
Also a very cool job you got there!
@@FeyHunt I can answer what I can, but I'm at work currently so a little pressed for time. If you'd like a good breakdown of the music of the series, Johnathan Barouch does a great not long break down about the percussion and styles. I'll answer a little better when I am done :)
@@Aproximal No worries! I'm in no rush! Music theory has always been my fascination for a while now. Tried it many times, but it never stick on my head.
I'll definitely check out your recommendation on percussion, though!
I think what elevates ZZZ above its component parts is the artistry and the level of execution. Every little detail has care and thought put into it. They don't recycle walk and run animations, every character has unique body language, posture, gestures and mannerisms that tell you about the character and reinforces their distinctiveness.
And, as you say, the environments also exude character. The shopfronts are catchy and full of personality. The streets have nooks and crannies for the player to explore. This is something missing not just in games, but in many parts of the world, especially America (and especially middle America), where strip malls and open spaces can look and feel painfully generic. In ZZZ, New Eridu is as much a character as the protagonists and the Agents and NPCs we encounter. You can tell the game is a labor of love.
Yeah! I hope the devs are having fun making it as well. I have a feeling that working in Hoyoverse must not be easy since they have endless work to do.
I also heard that this is an entirely new team on their first project. That's impressive!
This was such a good breakdown! ZZZ really takes me back to the 2000s, an era that is constantly at the back of my mind just waiting to hit me with nostalgia at any given moment.
@@matthewedson6639 Thank for the kind words! Yeah, I think I should've mentioned that the retro aesthetic does bring up the nostalgia factor.
Remember when arcade used to be crowded with people, and everyone is having fun outside. 😄😄
I noticed when I was doing side quests that I actually enjoyed doing City missions when I rarely enjoyed the in other games. Walking around sightseeing, petting cats, taking pictures, talking to neighbors, all this makes me feel as if I'm actually living there.
@@fatpurp4041 Yeah! I do hope we can get more in-world missions, instead of HDD missions. Some of them are genuinely funny and interesting, like investigating thieves in Sixth Street. 😆😆
As someone who has created hyper detailed "worlds" like 6th Street for other games I can say it's incredibly time consuming and painstaking to get a place to feel both realistic and populated. ZZZ did an amazing job with 6th Street, and it's probably the most immersive area I've ever seen in a gacha game. I realize not everyone is going to appreciate that to the same degree, but for those who do it's a real treat. I do feel like Genshin gets relatively close with it's towns and cities. It's just not as consistently excellent (understandably so, it's a massive world). I really enjoy most of the world in HSR too. Maybe the overworld area of Belobog feels a bit bare but it has its own charm I'd say (especially the small instances like Serval's shop and the flower store). The underground areas are excellent too. HSR is also telling a much grander story in a way, and has very little slice-of-life influences, making it much less important.
Yes, I don't deny that there are reasons why Genshin is less detailed. Budget limitation is a thing. They already had spent 700 million dollars, so if they do try to add more details... it might break GTA VI production cost.
On a more personal note, I kinda wish that Belobog leans more into the steampunk aesthetic like in Serval's shop. That's my soft spot right there. Also, I wish they made the Astral Express look more homely since it was supposed to be your home between adventures.
I am interested to know what projects you've worked on before. Perhaps you can teach me a thing or two about detailed worlds!
@@FeyHunt I still find Genshin quite detailed for such a huge game, and I do feel like the cities are fairly well developed and feel lived in more so than many other open world games. As for my experience it's not from any professional job or anything, but rather modding. I'm no expert in the sense that I could teach the skill I don't think 😅
@@bjornnilsson2941 I do agree. Genshin has come a long way. Mondstadt feels kinda empty, while at Sumeru they do make real cities that are crowded and lived in.
Hey, modding is cool too! It's hard work with little monetary incentive! I have huge respect to you, sir!
Zzz Devs said that this was their First ever project and to be honest they did a fantastic job with it. They made this game with passion and it shows in the details.
Oh, so this is a new team? I didn't know that! I thought they cut off parts of HSR and Genshin team for this one... Impressive!
If you do have the source for their interview, please tell me where I can read them!
@@FeyHunt Completely new team and they are actually quite young. They revealed it in their 1 st live stream. At the end they gave “ A LETTER TO ALL PROXIES” . I am sure you look it up on UA-cam
.
@@FeyHunt Version 1.1 undercover R & B. At the end you can read a letter to all proxies.
@@FeyHunt It was a letter to their community at the end of the 1.1 live stream.
@@oppressed Anyone who wants to see this themselves here's the direct link: ua-cam.com/video/AKBkO2ATfQU/v-deo.html
BTW the shout-out to Not Just Bikes is a good one. It's about urban planning and layouts on macro issues. Very good watch for anyone interested - and I say as someone who doesn't actually agree with all the channel's points.
@@John_II Yeah, Not Just Bikes do promote different ways to see at urban planning, sometimes comparing different city layouts.
It is definitely worth checking out. What issue you found about that channel? The only problem I see sometimes is the oversimplifications on how westerners can "easily" change their ways.
@@FeyHunt The oversimplifications are the issue. It's hard to start over with any city for planning. It is hard to change a whole city. I agree with the point in one video (I think he cited Montreal, Canada) where medium-density and mixed commercial residential use was the optimal way to do a city. And you supplement it with good public transit. And that's basically right and where I land on the issues of urban planning too.'
However, in real life, it's all but politically impossible to accomplish. In Toronto, Canada where I live we're trying some of the suggestions, but you see in real life how a good suggestion cannot just be implemented.
Building more density - like a 3-story building with a store on the ground floor and two floors of residences (heck make it 6) is a very good idea... but who is going to build it? In Toronto, developers would rather build a 50-story condo on the same lot for more profit.
The same lot also isn't getting upgrades to roads and in Toronto so many people drive once you're outside the core of the city (you have to get anywhere in any reasonable amount of time).
The some area isn't getting more subway service or more buses, so we just get congestions.
The same area may also not have schools or hospitals, or the right sewers and so on....
So when the channel over-simplifies the issues like why can't we be more like Japan or Europe? Well, the answer is because of history. We built most of e.g. Toronto with cars in mind quickly to house people coming home from WWII in the 1950s to 1970s. Meanwhile Rome is over 2000 years old, and built differently over centuries.
It doesn't mean we shouldn't try, but it's a lot harder than just doing it with strong government because (in Canada) NIMBY and corporate interests tend to trump what would be great for most people.
Bike lanes are easy to build, but you cannot get rid of winter (unless you WANT more climate change ... :P).
I think we should triple of subway grid of Toronto with lines on Jane, Kipling, Finch, Sheppard, Steeles, Warden, Markham Road, and Lawrence and extend it to all neighbouring cities... but I know the cost is going to be like $150 billion... that we don't have.
Anyway, it's a great channel, and for high level stuff... he's right. If you go into a political science class on urban planning... not so much on the nitty gritty but that's a limitation of a UA-cam video. It's not a dissertation. :)
@@John_II Wow, what a great read you just gave me! Everything you say is true. He did put Japan or Amsterdam as his top examples of great city layouts. But thing is, Japan's urban planning was first set in 1947, after the entire nation was carpet bombed to the ground.
Knowing that, it does seem like he's yelling at the clouds. I understand he is just putting his thoughts out there though, hopefully he can influence future lawmakers to adopt better urban planning.
Also, it's very interesting that Canada and Jakarta, Indonesia had the same problem. My city already has a pretty good public transport, but we still have cars-onlu road. Plus the affordable housing is a big problem. I guess it's an easier problem to solve, since you just need to buy lands and build on it.
Problem is, Jakarta is the exception to that rule. The rest of Indonesia's cities are a mess. There's no urban zoning at all!
@@John_II Well we Asians did it in like a few decades, idk what's holding you guys back and the Netherlands did it in a few decades too
@@Hhhh22222-w What is holding back Canada? How much time do you have? :P
Short answers range from: interest groups run the country - and not in a cohesive way - to Canadians don't really demand better from their politicians or public servants. The public service is basically out of control: non-accountable and non-productive. I think we can get there, but it's going to be decades of demanding better from our governments.
Like if the bike lane lobby, the urban reform lobby, the transit departments / infrastructure departments, and the condo developers were all on the same page, and we had no public sector unions - we could do it in like 20-30 years. Fix it all, I mean. But... that's just one man's take on the issue. :P
Another advantage of a small/limited space is that it is easier to fill it up with NPCs in motion to give the space a more lived-in and lively vibe, while also saving on dev budget and compute budget (for mobile). I also want to second another commenter's mention of the element of time. 6th St and Lumina Square are completely different places when comparing late morning to midnight. Lumina Square at midnight is deserted and lonely. The contrast really makes the late morning hustle and bustle seem more real.
Exactly! Empty space is a nightmare for designers. That's also why Jinzhou in Wuthering Waves doesn't feel like a city. It's just too empty.
However, I want to add that the compute budget is a relatively easy problem to solve for NPCs. Modern game engines these days already have technologies like "culling" to minimize the amount of models displayed in the game world. You can easily see this in motion where NPC far away are hidden from view. But of course, you'll have limitations on mobile devices if you want to make Lumina Square into Shibuya Crossing. I wish there was a graphic setting to do that if you're on PC.
@@FeyHuntYou literally spend all of your time inside of the towns.
The difference in time you spend in Jinzhou vs ZZZ town sections is massive, barely any vs almost all of it.
That’s due to the focus of open-world games vs linear area-based games. Actually talk about the game’s merits and hold off on comparing the least comparable parts to games you hate.
@@aquasis995 I don't hate Wuthering Waves. I play it every day. I love that game! But, a part of giving feedback is pointing out areas where they are lacking.
As I said in the video, I don't make my video to bash other games. Obviously, there are things that only WuWa can do well and I will eventually make that video, like the environmental storytelling in Tiger's Maw Mine.
No game is above criticism.
it also helps that some of the walking-only npc in one time of the day are the ones you actually talk on other times of the day
@@rhnirsilva652 Yep! There are some neat routines that the NPCs work on. Sometimes even weekly routines. One time, I did see the bears in Brent Street having a drink at the end of the day on Friday, celebrating a nice week.
damn, you spoke what I have been feeling with ZZZ's world, if a miracle happens and isekai exists, this world is ideal to live in
I agree! Minus the Hollow stuff of course... In this world, you can just suddenly fall into a random Hollow like your sibling in the interlude chapter.
@@FeyHunt I respectfully disgaree, I feel like a major tragedy in my life such as the Hollows existing and being as strong as the agents in this world would solve all the boring non fictional aspects of my humanity (reality sucks). Just bring me to New Eridu instead of existing in this linear reality
I’m glad the algorithm sent me here. This was a good breakdown
I'm also glad the algorithm sent you here so I can hear your feedback! 😄😄
Your second reason is just 10/10 man. I was kinda disinterested by the whole lore drop dialogue scene when arriving at Belebog. ZZZ really allows me to learn the world myself through the npcs and environment. It doesn't hold me hand and tell me why or when this place was made, I can just gradually piece it together myself.
You sir, got it all right! That's the true essence of a great world design. Everything should have its reason why it's there, and trusting the player figure it out themselves. We're not stupid!
I forgot to mention! I meant Belebog in HSR. Not Belebog Industries. Their introduction was enjoyable!
zenless i so good, been waiting since anounce and didnt disapoint. I did drop all live service games waiting for this and was surprisingly better than expected. The only dissapointment was the number of available characters but considering the level of detail its worth and after some updates that will no longer be a problem.
Yep, yep! I agree that the starting character is a little bit small, considering that 5 of them are locked behind the standard banner. We're still mostly doing A-rank characters right now.
I think that's why they immediately ramped up by introducing 3 characters in this update. Which probably going to punch a hole in your wallet if you're not being picky! 😅😅
The vibe that ZZZ personally gives off for me is very similar to when I play Persona 3, 4, and 5. Taking the time off after missions, talking to the characters and getting their "side quests" or special events to increase friendship level, feels similar to when you're trying to build a social link on persona. And going to different places in the world feels very purposeful 💜
Yeah! I do like the Hub and Spoke HQ/location where you can go after missions. I haven't played any Persona games yet, but this kinda reminds me of OG Bioware games like Dragon Age camps or Normandy in Mass Effect. This is just a place where you can chill out and make some memories together.
I think immersion is very important for me. I played HSR for almost 2 years it’s a great game but I just can’t really immerse myself. I only get to walk and run with my characters while my phone plays them (during auto battle). Eventually I don’t like where they are going with the story, I can’t vibe with the characters and I don’t find myself wanting to play it anymore. ZZZ is something I feel like home, sometimes I just find a place in the world and just stand there with the music on while I work. It’s such a vibe and I feel connected with the world.
Yeah... it's a shame though. I did try HSR several months ago, and I just can't enjoy it. For me, it's the combat. When I win an encounter, it doesn't feel good. I already know whether I'll win or lose from the first strike. It's just a matter of numbers in the relics.
I like their story direction and their character design, but if I have to endure the slog of combat... I don't think I can play it anymore.
Honestly it feels like the developers for ZZZ played a lot Persona 5 which is awesome. Like Persona 5 the overworld has such a vibe and liveliness to it that always makes it a joy to explore. The trust events also feel a lot like social links and both games have so many of these small interactions in the world itself.
Yeah! A lot of people have been making comparison to Persona 5 in this comment section alone. I think I should give it a try someday.
thank you for putting it into words in this video. i wondered for the last month why do i always think about zzz more than other games and now i understand better.
Haha, thank you for the kind words!
Just really wanna say I really appreciate these videos
Thank you! That's my goal in this channel, and hopefully you can learn a thing or two about game design!
Wow it's like you read my mind, Excellent Video and Points, The funny thing, is I was just thinking this and boom I saw your video lol.
Haha, what a great coincidence! Thank you for your kind words!
Zenless zone zero has its own unique flair I love it so much from many different features it has it can be the bustling vibes at lumina square and random play. The fun gameplay loop the game offers and not to mention the animation overall this game is peak.
@@Hashiunidya Yeah! Since everyone is always paying close attention to Hoyoverse, you can expect more games will try to make similar effort with their games. Which is an overall win in my book! 😆😆
@@FeyHunt yep hoyoverse has more ips in the lab cooking and ready to release in the near future can’t wait to see how they carry on implementing and improving these features
I turn off background music and just enjoy the world ambience while walkin around
Ooohhh... Is the soundscape that good in this game? I haven't tried it yet.
Good vid man, in just one and a half month, this game has managed to become my favourite gacha of all times.
Yeah, me too! The only thing I don't quite enjoy is the repetitiveness of the HDD exploration after a while. I'm already at Level 48, so it starts to get grating when different quests just repeats themselves. Otherwise, everything else is great!
The game is good and all but I lost 50/50 twice
Oof... Press F for you, brother. I did lose 50-50 on the event banner to get Grace, and then another standard banner once to get her W-Engine. So, I guess the task failed successfully?
@@FeyHunt For you it’s was successful, man but I lost to get Soldier 11 (she’s good though and I love her design but I wanted Ellen) and lost the standard banner to get Koleda’s W-engine which I quite disappointed cause I didn’t get here
I just love how everything is plausible irl despite the craziness and flair that zzz world has.
It feels lived even while you're phasing through npcs.
Lumina square in particular reminds me of Hong Kong so much while 6th street reminds me of where I stayed in Ikebukuro for my studies.
@@user-et3ye5vh2h Oohhh, I would love to visit real life Lumina Square!
And yeah, ZZZ is a big contradiction of a crazy world ending threat and where you are just vibing with your friends 😆😆
I think a big part is that because the danger is primarily contained to the hollows, people don't really treat them with the urgency other games would require. Yes they are full of terrifying monsters, but the monsters can't actually leave their hollows either, so people just go about their lives as if nothing changed.
@@SethAbercromby You have a point! But as I said in my previous video about horror, it's actually not true. These people just cope with the possibility that a Hollow can just expand at any moment, or if they suddenly fall into unknown smaller Hollows.
That makes it even more disturbing. It's like living next to an active nuclear bomb with an unknown timer.
@@FeyHunt At the same time, hundreds of people lose their lives in traffic accidents every day, are you living in constant feat of every road crossing? If the threat is abstract and distant enough the mind is extremely good at pretending it's not there.
@@SethAbercromby I get your point, but I don't think the Hollows are as comparable to traffic accidents. If I stay at home all the time, I don't need to worry about getting hit by a car. That's not the case with the Hollow.
There's nowhere truly safe in New Eridu. As the Interlude chapter have pointed out, you can send your sister to school one morning and she never came back, because a Hollow expands to consume the school.
And then Koleda's Agent Story shows that they don't have any capabilities to map out or predict if a new Hollow is forming. You can have a hidden Hollow beneath a school. You can have a Hollow beneath your feet, ready to expand at any time.
And then there's also the fact that they haven't been able to fully destroy a Hollow forever. Even if they can, their entire energy system relies on it.
Honestly, sixth street reminds me of a neighbourhood I used to live in. Even the subway being tucked in the corner has the same vibe. It's relatable. Also the OST is so chill when it needs to be and spicy when things gets heated. I don't mind wandering and checking out what the well designed NPC's are up to.
Yeah! You must lived in a very good city then! I wish my city were that integrated so I can just go anywhere through the station nearby. Then I'll just put on some headset and play ZZZ music. New Eridu in real life baby!
Even me, who is someone who has a priority point A to B mindset, I am not immune to getting attached to the atmosphere of the game. Thank you for putting it in words I can't explain to my friends, who dislike the game.
Haha, thank you for the kind words! I find it quite difficult to put my thoughts together when I was making this video. But I'm glad it resonates with you!
I find myself humming ZZZ's soundtrack all the time.
Haha, which one's your favorite?
Another thing that I think helps a lot is the NPCs, not the Agents on their free time, but just the random NPCs, these are just civilians but still have unique designs, they don't feel like generic passerby number 32 like other games. You can move around and get a good glimpse at the level of detail a random civilian has, and it helps a lot that in different times of day or even different days of week they may be doing different stuff, it feels more like they are alive and have their own lives outside the player than the random guard that is always in the same spot no matter when you check on them.
And while not all NPCs are like this (some need to stay in place for mechanics), the overall feeling is already there from the rest and helps them anyways.
This too! I was debating if I should include this in the video, but I finally decided against it since there's not a lot of NPCs that actually have routines I can record and show in the video.
But you're totally right. Every NPC feels unique. It's not just a small limited presets reused time and time again. 😄😄
I remember just going around in Lumina Square, I keep encountering two students (Pink hair and black/brown hair with a cap) preparing and helping for their exams.
Everytime I interact to listen the small story progresses and I was able to find them in different area, like the second floor of the cafe, outside of HIA, and near the milktea shop.
Frankly I wanna see more of their story, because it's quite relatable as a student. As well as more small npc mini story that doesn't require Combat or Exploration in the HDD to progress.
Another thing to add, in Sixth Street and Lumina Square, there are some lamp posts or posts that have a terminal box that are blocked by another lamp post or sign post is kinda funny, because I've seem some of them in irl because of poor planning and electricians are unable to open those boxes during maintenance.
@@princerosevelt Haha! I wonder if those are intentional design? There are places that made me chuckle or giddy too for weird reasons.
My favorite was when I entered NEPD HQ and I looked at those automated queue ticket machine, I just giggling like a school girl. Or when I see some of the light switches and the fuse box on the walls.
Man, I love this game!
This video is gold, well done choom!
Thank you for your kind words! Also, is that Cyberpunk lingo there?
@@FeyHunt yes indeed!
Love your bite sized documentary of the game.
You have potential my man.
Thank you! I just have waaayyyy too many things to say in me. Glad that I'm not just an old man yelling at the clouds!
That bella in the thumbnail is most definitely all of us 🥺
Haha, especially when I pull for Jane next month!
I sometimes play ZZZ and everything you said in this video really feels good. I love the slice of life kinda feel. Only thing is that personally I am not feeling that great about combat and tv exploring ( at least not yet ).
@@matrixfull Yeah, there are some things ZZZ need to work on. My primary gripe is the grinding, which have bullcrap RNG and the amount of stamina needed to farm for everything.
The story and vibe are top notch 👍👍
Im a music guy and ZZZ srsly nails it. Also the forced naps they make you makes it feel like your playing persona. :)
Yeah, some people did point out it's very similar to Persona 5. I haven't played that game though, but I can notice the similarities!
@@FeyHunt oh shit you havent? Well if you want good music and good vibes then it definitely should be your next game to play. Persona 5 Royal is a very good starting point.
@@deadbeatseikor0wonl1dance88 Well, my friends have been urging me to play it since I was in junior high. Never got a PC good enough to play it. Now I do, so I'll make time for it to catch up!
Really like how Hoyoverse always does the different. We're at the time where the most profitable is open world gacha games in these companies, then mihoyo released a hack n slash. Some will find it bad but those who liked it in times like this would definitely be a long time customer.
Yep! They do goes against the trend sometimes, betting on the market potential in each segment. When you do that, you have to make sure that your game is way better than the existing game in that market... which is usually is.
HSR is a turn-based game beating any other turn-based gacha in the market by revenue. ZZZ is... well, I haven't actually figured out what it's competing against. I haven't seen exact paralel here...
When I first saw 141, I was literally meming how this is open 24 hours a day and advertises it.
Haha! 141 must be their own of 7/11 in this world. Man, I missed their instant food!
I have GI, HSR and ZZZ in my system. GI since 3.1, HSR since 1.6 and ZZZ is the only gacha I started from day 1.
GI emerges top in immersion to me because the excellent job they did with their open world and their main story is excellent. It's pretty weak in rewards on the flip side, leveling up characters up to speed is a little tough but pace is still acceptable.
HSR ranks second for me in immersion. Though limited open space, it's still interesting to explore them. Main story gets confusing at times but still fine to follow, especially liked Acheron's story arc. Leveling of charcters seems the smoothest among the 3, the 1 thing I have no worry for in HSR as a F2P is the currency for leveling characters. GI's mora do feel tight at times but at least the dailies, lootables and events made up for the shortfalls. HSR took this and improved on it, I never felt a credit crunch in HSR ever, rarely a need to deliberately spend fuel to farm for credits, just occasional XP materials, the rest are through events and endgame. So leveling characters feels a lot better in HSR.
ZZZ... small areas, significant lack of lootables, every major stuff post level 40 need major dennies and it's among the 3 basic materials that players are deprived. Combat missions don't give characters, weapons XP materials. Daily task rewards give a palpable 3000 dennies. Everything in this game is screaming for players to actively farm the 3 basic mats from their respective HIA domains using stamina. Now that I'm at Inter Knot 51, seeing the amount of basic mats to even bring my main 6 characters to L55 is already a huge turn off. I've not even considered the bangboo, skills and drive discs yet.
Now in 1.1, I'm getting ready to see myself out of ZZZ. Gotten Soldier 11 in my latest pull, seriously, I used 16 ether fuel + 240 stamina to speed groom her out of curiosity, only managed to get her and her weapon to 40. Core skill C and skills between 5-7, Drive discs at L3 across board. I'm thinking, if fully relying on daily stamina alone, I'll probably be facing this huge material crunch with no end in sight at this rate. Every new character obtained will probably only be ready for action a month later from time of building commencement.
The value returned from the effort put in vs the other 2 titles, ZZZ is right down at the bottom for me. In 1.0, I told myself, "Give it to 1.2," but now I doubt I can give it anymore time.
You raised some valid concerns. It does have its issues. The progression is very tight in this game, and the game just forces you to have multiple teams maxed out for every element. Otherwise, you'll struggle a lot in Hollow Zero or Shiyu Defense.
It's fine to leave a game if you don't feel like it.
In fact, I'm the exact opposite of you. I played Genshin from launch to 3.6, so around 2.5 years and I really hated how the story doesn't improve into an acceptable standards, especially the NPC Story Quest.
I also tried HSR last month, but the combat just doesn't feel good. I don't feel the excitement in every combat or the satisfying feeling of defeating a hard encounter. It's all just numbers game to me, so I dropped it after finishing Belobog's main story arc.
@@FeyHuntNo worries, we all have different preferences.
I just wish that the different teams managing each title in Hoyo would come together to share what works and what doesn't.
Hoyo should have a very good grasp on balancing rewards after having 2 highly successful titles and years of feedback from those titles. I hope they would seriously work on improving the rewards, namely the required upgrading materials, in ZZZ.
@@leestefan2999 This! I feel like they didn't even try to communicate. It's almost as if every team is always starting over at the start. The lessons from past mistakes are repeated ad nauseam. Like the Honkai Impact 1st anniversary problem, also repeated in Genshin Impact 1st anniversary. I'm more interested in the writing and the gameplay mechanics.
There are some buzz that Genshin is implementing ZZZ's substats locking for its artifact. So here's hoping things will change.
ZZZ has a gigantic amount of care put into it, nothing is recycled. I'm not talking about the fighting maps, because frankly, it doesn't matter if they reuse assets in a fighting map, it's not that important. In the walkable areas' I don't think i've seen the same asset used twice. It's just so impressive. Not to mention the amount and variety of art in this game omg
Yeah! They have gone so far from their Honkai Impact origin, where their "open world" is a bunch of recycled assets and low details. I want to see what they'll do when they have new explorable maps!
Actually yes, ZZZ world feels very cozy - it has both, modern vibes, as well as this comfy 80's-90's vibe - for both, millenials and GenZ. It's really a nice place to just be in.
Yeah! I do wish I could live in there, minus the Hollows disaster of course...
@@FeyHunt the characters, too - they really feel like buddies/neighbours that you encounter on a daily basis. Really adds to immersion.
@@MisanThrope-cu1mw7fj3p Exactly! No one feels too over the top or too flat. They are very charming and you want to hang out with them.
@@FeyHunt yes, that's a good point.
In Genshin, Star Rail many characters feel a bit too theatrical. Here, they feel more natural, especially in their environment (which is way more timid than high-fantasy and sci-fantasy of respective titles).
agree with everything that you stated for me its also an extrea after you play GI , HSR, WUWA during the day 1 less game to do exploration in just combat and chill
Yeah! There's just always something to do or places to chill in this game, like hanging out with your friends and doing silly stuff. It's great!
amazing analysis, nice video bro
Thank you for the kind words! 😊
Really great video help me appreciate zzz world even more
@@noname-lb3sg That's the goal! Thank you for the kind words!
1:58 Exactly! What separates Genshin and Star Rail from ZZZ is the fact that their worlds are expansive in order to immerse players in an ever-expanding world. This is more apparent in the former, but one can argue that this is also present in Star Rail, given its space-opera genre. This is highly subjective on my part, but I feel like the lack of detail in the environments in Star Rail can work to put players in the Trailblazer's headspace; these planets and ships and worlds they're exploring do contain people worth caring about, but they are not their "home". They are treasured because they're part of a "tapestry" of memories they accumulate over their journey.
On the other hand, the environments in ZZZ ARE homely. There are places the siblings are very intimately familiar with, and there are people who treasure them just as much as they themselves do. The shopkeepers are friendly and inviting, and even random NPCs have their own stories to tell. I feel that it's a smart decision for HYV to make the setting smaller in scale compared to the other two games mentioned, as it lends itself to creating more intimate memories and immersive stories with the characters. This reminds me of the Persona games, where the setting is usually a whole city or town, and the fighting (at least in 3 and onwards) takes place in a "separate" environment from the main setting. It's comfy. And sure, the cast will get bigger, and we may never know whether they will expand the story to the outside of New Eridu and beyond (besides the Outer Ring), but as of now, I'm liking what we got.
I do agree with both of your examples! But... here's my counter-example and feedback for the Star Rail team: I think they should make Astral Express much more homely with ZZZ's level of detail. Just for the Express. The rest of the environment can remain just as it is.
The Express is supposed to be your home in this adventure. But from the few hours I have in there, I don't feel like I want to stay there for long. I just want to go to another world and meet new people. It should be a place where I want to rest for a bit, feel the family vibe they have going in there.
@@FeyHunt Oh yeah good point! The train being a sort of hub feels awfully minimalistic for a place where you can rest with your found family. It doesn't help that the Trailblazer barely visits the place aside from lore reasons or greeting the other characters visiting the Express. In fact, it'd actually be really nice to see them interact with the other members of the Astral Express, as proof that the bonds we forged extend to them aside from just the protagonist.
@@freshcorn1431 Yeah! I wouldn't mind if they adopted ZZZ's hangout system just for Astral Express crew. Or just add more side mission about them. Because so far, whenever we go back to Astral Express, it feels more like Yapping Express...
From the story, i would assume that the story has 2 directions to expand:
- Horizontally, exploring some gray area/outskirt that mostly lawless and prone to Hollow case (Outer Ring)
- Vertically, exploring the Depth of Hollow until it breached to extent layers, and, possibly into another world/dimension
@@TheWijasmara Yep! And they could switch between the two as the story demands it. It really comes down to when they start to increase the urgency factor. When they start putting a ticking clock, the story will switch to vertical. If not, then it's a relaxed horizontal exploration.
ZZZ's story telling is also alot more straight to the point and not a wall of text (and no skip button) like HSR. The latest HSR quest line got my face on my keyboard a few times.
Oh yeah! That's definitely one thing I want to cover in my next video. Show, don't tell is a big part of it as I've shown here in this video: ua-cam.com/video/GtD-vw0F0Y8/v-deo.html
@FeyHunt yea and also zzz is alot easier to understand for the builds and skills than HSR. HsR is literally a Wall if text simulator.
With zzz being the oposite with the text being squish, probably due to how the Chinese language is formated in symbols instead of words. They just need to decrease the font size but even then I feel that with alot of hoyo games skill descriptions can be explained w/o alot of text in just point form
Like for QY
Spam Right click> meter> full> hold for dps
Gof HSR needs this
@@exodus2oo That's part of the "forced complexity" that I don't like in Hoyo games. They want to keep the simple control layout, but they want to vary the effects. So they'll just stuff a wall of text on it and call it a day.
That's not mentioning how HSR is just a number game to me. I don't feel there's any strategy involved once you grind enough. I don't feel engaged.
Meanwhile in ZZZ, even if you have grinded to max crit and dmg ratio, you still need to dodge, attack, combo them.
zenless feels like home.
@@maheee It is! It just feels so right for me to log in after a long day at work... 😄😄
the aesthetics and vibes of this game are unparalleled
Yeah! It's just one of the most polished gacha game I've ever played 🥰🥰
Very well said!
The thing i wanna say is beside details, i love how they don't stretch the environment and going for that 1:1 scale
I realized this in genshin when i saw a macaroon is the size of paimon's head, then i notice other things like door that can fit giant, a bed for 10, etc (especially in Fontaine)
it's just ridiculous but yeah i guess that's how they make the open world seems big and spacious
hsr kinda tone it down probably because it's not exactly OW (i think it's called closed world, same with zzz) and wuwa arguably worse to compensate the unlimited stamina
Thank you for the kind words! The scaling issue has always been video game trope for a good reason. Items have to be big so it can easily be seen from afar. The building scaling is to minimize the empty space that would happen if you try to match the scale of the buildings indoor and outdoor. It's very funny is HSR when you're in Herta Space Station, where you can see that Astral Express is so tiny.
ZZZ tried its best to not stretch it too far, but you can still see it when you enter NEPS HQ building. It's way bigger on the inside. And since ZZZ doesn't have pickable items, we don't exactly have things to compare it to.
@@FeyHunttrue, scaling issues happen in most video games and zzz is no exception as you mentioned, I guess I'm just biased because I love 6th street and the video store
anyway I just watched some of your other videos, 1sub
your content + voice and tone are just my taste and I appreciate you actively interacting with commenters
if I had to nitpick, your videos are too short lol
@@FrezASH5 Haha, thank you so much! Yeah... I am aware of the length. It's actually because I can't fully commit to long videos. I get stressed out when a project is stuck in development hell. Plus, I haven't found any recent topics that would require me to speak at length. If I can get my point across in a short time, I don't see why I should waste your time. Plus, I kinda hate editing so... ehe.
Still! If I do find a topic that would do well in a longer format, I think I will try making longer content. You can think of these short videos as a strategy for me to get more clicks and build up a community of passionate people that can discuss the topics I presented with a level head. I don't know about you, but seeing a 4-hour essay video really scares me! 🤣🤣
@@FeyHunt that's just my way to say why such good video has short duration
You don't have to force yourself to make long video if the topic is not supposed to be long, this video for example where you just show your opinion
lol I also rarely watch those 4 hours video essay, 20-30 minutes is ideal for me
like your Arknights x Monster Hunter crossover video, you rant about this and that but keep it to the point but there's a lot you need to point out which makes the video longer
To be fair, macarons should be Paimon size irl too @@FrezASH5
It's these small details that make the game feel weirdly good. Sadly not many people notice it
Yeah... some people just speed by the flowers and then get upset because they didn't see any flowers. I was one of them, but I've learned to slow down and enjoy the scenery when I'm playing these games.
It's like I'm paying tribute to the artists that made this game real.
They borrowed Atlus's tried and true Persona format, and made it into their own beautiful creation. Star Rail is my favorite gacha game overall, BUT the world of Zenless is the one I feel the most cozy with logging into every day. The level of details, the social interactions, the amusing dialogue, THE MUSIC... if they took ALL of the combat out I wouldn't even feel that bad if I could just do VN style cut scenes and have new social events once in awhile.
Yeah! It takes an awful lot of work and skill to pull off what they did. I'm genuinely impressed. It also makes me wanna play Persona since I haven't done that.
Urban modern world in persona 3 and 5 and zenless zone zero are great, but a small town in persona 4 and (different thing but) Hinamizawa in higurashi visual novel will be always my favourites.
I wish a modern higher budget gatcha game from hoyoverse/hotta studios/kuro games (or a Japanese developer) will be based on that "japanese inaka in the 90s" atmosphere.
I would say ZZZ does it quite well, since I never see those games myself. OG players kinda compare it with Jet Set Radio.
I have to check those games myself to see it then! 😄
When first saw CZZ I was very sceptical about the game and I thought I will dislike it but now it's one of my favourite games of all time
So do I! I thought it was just another gacha cashgrab riding on Genshin's success. But holy crap, this game is awesome!
with that thumbnail seems like belle is having something else feel good lmao
Well... ehe~ 😏😏
Another thing that helps, to me at least, that there feels like there's more variety in the ZZZ NPC crowds compared to most other games. They're much more willing to sprinkle distinguishing details like more varied clothes, accessories, and hair colors onto the no name background characters, which makes them feel more like realistic groups of people, while the shopkeeper NPCs have designs that are halfway towards being as detailed and unique as the actually playable characters, leaving a strong impression. I can remember half of the Sixth Street store owners off of the top of my head if randomly asked, but I can't really say the same for really any other game world now that I think about it.
Yep! That is a big part of it. It also helps that the NPCs are all acting like a big family. Everyone knows each other well. I was actually going to include this point in the video, discussing how the NPCs have certain routines and style, but I kinda cut it out at the last moment, since my explanation was not good enough.
I agree that details really do set apart video games from others. One of the reasonsI love about ZZZ is that it is very similar to Cyberpunk 2077 when it comes to detail and vibe. Also, I'm a fan of innovative ideas being done right. The Monitor Array is a fantastic experience for myself. In addition, the time-of-day based events brings back the harvest moon nostalgia.
Yeah! Details and stylization does play a big role in making the game feels unique. My biggest concern is that they've been hearing a lot of feedback to reduce or remove entirely the monitor array gameplay.
Vibe Impact
I would approve of this alternative name. We got Honkai Impact, Genshin Impact, now Vibe Impact!
I just wish there's not that much loading screen. I hate when I check every single location to look for something interesting cus I have to suffer multiple loading screens. I don't have that much issue in hsr cus the loading screen is so quick I barely noticed it. Maybe this is just me problem tho cus my drive is not that fast for today's standards.
Oof, yeah... Now that I think about it, I think I will suffer a lot if I did install this game on an HDD. I think SSD is highly recommended, otherwise you will wait a lot when you just want to craft upgrade materials.
Bro my friends thought I was crazy for saying Wuthering Wave’s world felt empty and rushed. Yes, graphically everything looked great, but there was obviously a lack of attention to really make the world feel “alive”. It was just kind of thrown together to create a passable open world setting.
Had trouble putting it into words before, but this video sums it up quite nicely by showing what they’re lacking and on the contrary, what Hoyoverse is so good at. In every Hoyoverse game since Genshin, I feel like you could stop and take a screenshot anywhere and it’ll look nice and feel like a realistic setting, albeit in a fictional universe.
@@ICM9 Yeah, WuWa's world just feel too gamey at times. It feels like an MMO world design where different spots are made for questing and sprinkled with enemies. But that's it.
My biggest pet peeve was that they didn't do more with the world itself. Like, okay... You see a ruined city in Port Guixu. Why not create a quest that explore the downfall of this city as a warning to Jinzhou? Then there's the Tiger's Maw Mine. Why not create a quest where you explore the founding of the mines? Why does Lampylumen is so important to Jinzhou? There's so much potential here.
That being said, there are times where I stopped to look at the scenery. I do remember how I take a nice slow walk up on the mountain behind Jinzhou, and A LOT more on Mount Firmament. That island is so beautiful.
@@FeyHunt Yeah, totally agree 100%
There definitely are some very scenic areas in the game, but as you said the rest of it you can feel that lack of attention.
Thanks for the response and great video btw!
@@ICM9 Thank you for the kind words! 😄😄
great content
Thank you for the kind words!
like it or not Hoyo is genius
Genshin was a gamble for them it's the most ambicious mobile gacha to ever coem out and when it work they decide to do something else while.genshin successfully bait everyone to do openworld RPG leave other genre wide open for Hoyo to take over
Haha, I'm sure they figured that out accidentally and after the fact. But essentially, they have created a massive moat around their business.
Now, if you want to make a popular gacha game, you have to create it at their quality level or higher. That's almost impossible unless you have like a billion dollar or something.
I think open world games has less luxury of making everything look that detailed because of storage issues but other than that great video!
Not necessarily. It all comes down to asset reuse and optimization. Yes, there's gonna be a size increase, but not as much as you may think.
The bigger issue is the workhour needed to make that detailed look. Your artists salary is gonna balloon up really quickly.
@@FeyHunt ohh is that so! I think I get it, just make the assets not as detailed but put them there a lot (with reasoning and logic in mind) to make the place look filled?
@@goodietwoshoes7238Yes! That's how open-world games like Genshin work! It's not about the detail, it's about the right amount and variation to make it look filled. Of course, there's also some other design principles and some trickery you can do with game engines.
If we want to go a bit more technical, 3D models are not really the biggest thing in the game files. It's the textures used on those models. But it also pales in comparison to the number of voice lines used in the game. Given the same amount, voicelines always consume the most memory.
Not doing combat as the mc feels different. It's a good different experience for me
Actually, the MC being playable in combat is a recent trend with the rise of 3D gacha games. Before that, it was always MC directing playable characters, especially in older gacha games where it's just a screen of buttons and menus. It seems we're going back to that era with ZZZ. Variations are always good 😄
@@FeyHunt really? That's news to me. Thanks for telling me
Honestly, I think in a lot of respects, this game is just genuinely amazing compared to most games in regards to the vibes of its setting and characters-- whether those game be gachas or AAA blockbusters. I think the writing also deserves a lot of credit. Most of the characters feel real in some aspect or another. Some more so than others, but I can't think of any that just feel 2-Dimensional. Even though most are based on common archetypes or tropes, they are still relatable. I've seen a lot of anxious characters like Corrin for example, but she's one of the few characters I've seen that feels relatable to me as someone that has social anxiety. When I'm talking to her and cheering her on, it feels like the conversations I have had with myself or with my friends trying to push them on to better themselves. Even really simple characters, like Billy, feel enjoyable to spend time with. I'd love to play some competitive Snake with or against Billy irl! He's my bro fr.
Yeah, they REALLY nailed down the vibe for the story and the environment in this game. Hoyoverse has always been great at using tropes as the basis of their characters, but ZZZ goes a step further to give them screen time to show their quirks in various hangouts and an overall smaller cast.
If you're interested, my previous video covers why ZZZ is an expert in their worldbuilding: ua-cam.com/video/GtD-vw0F0Y8/v-deo.html
Plus, my next video will cover why the writing is so good from a more wholistic approach.
Never thought in my life that someone mention Not Just Bikes and Zenless Zone Zero in a same video lol. I've watched so many SoL animes to the point I realized that the devs are inspired by japanese city layout.
Of all hoyogames, 6th street is the place the most I want to live in.
("Less drama" is a heavy word to claim. Maybe you shouldnt claim it yourself and let others judge you that)
Haha, it just so fitting when I watched their latest video on Japanese layout and then ZZZ came out. My mind immediately jump to that.
As for that "less drama" mention, I am just putting out what other people are saying in my last videl. Apparently, gacha game youtubers are so into discussing drama that people just had enough.
I'm just not interested in making those drama content unless there's something new I can teach and showcase. All of my videos recently are always about breaking down what makes a game good.
Of course, if people don't like me saying that quiet part outloud, I will stop saying that 😄😄
@@FeyHunt I have a request here. Can you analyze hoyo's story quests ? Genshin has been criticized for highlighting their NPC too much, aka NPC story quest. And I think zzz is showing the same syndrome. But I heard wuwa avoids that. I dont have wuwa bcs lowspec hardware and I cant take another gacha lol
Emilie's story quest is actually interesting, but I cant get the idea of it being npc story quest out of my head
@@raihanrusli2720I'd like to say it's old vs new game bias
tbh yes, genshin character quest sucks for the past 3 years because it highlight an NPC and not the character themselves, but if you go back and remember those early character quest it actually about said character
we got Amber make gliding license, Lisa book collecting, Kaeya treasure hunt, Mona walks to Mondstadt, etc
it is a shame we only get to see what the character would do with an NPC situation rather than get to know the character through the character situation themselves right now
this is a bad presentation of show, don't tell lol
@@raihanrusli2720 Oh yes... it's definitely on my list. I have a HUGE problem with NPC STORY QUEST. And it really pissed me off that Genshin's influence had spread into WuWa and into ZZZ! Whenever I drop that video, you bet I'll explode! 😡😡
@@FrezASH5 It's actually downright insulting bait and switch. You are promised an adventure with a character, and then it's actually an NPC Story Quest.
If you can't tell, I have such a huge beef with their kind of writing. Look forward to that video when it drops out. 😡😡
It took me 159 pulls to get Qingyi. Tell me, did I win? 😢
Anyways, I'm done with open-world games. Yeah, they were nice at first. But who has time to explore and collect everything just to get pulls nowadays? Especially now where time and money is extremely hard to manage. Not this working gamer.
That's what I feel after playing Genshin from launch to v3.6 for 2.5 years. New areas felt like a chore.
Everyone needs a break. Too much of anything isn't good for us.
the persona vibes, the music, quick gameplay, interesting waifu designs, zzz easily added to my gacha active list. hsr, zzz, & afkj. sorry wuwa. It was fun while it lasted. either wuwa or gi, but i decided to drop wuwa. i still have attachment to gi. opening the game at least 1s a week.
Haha, it seems we can no longer just play one gacha game these days. There are just so many good stuff to play!
All the things listed are really there and executed decently. The question remains as to how the developers will develop this world. At this point, I'm getting tired of seeing Corin trying to call out Ellen in Lumia Square or Zhu Yuan at the flower shop.
Yeah, that's why I really want them to keep adding new encounters, maybe it unlocks slowly after every main chapters. I've already met Corin 4 times to yell for that bag! I don't need more yelling!
This point kinda breaks immersion a bit, admittedly.
I really like ZZZ but Genshin’s open world is still my favourite. I hope they are still going to make open world you can fly and run around in
Hmmmm... I think it depends on whether they choose to invest more budget into this game's development. It's definitely possible!
Hoyo clearly studied Persona 5 when they set out to make ZZZ.
Now that you mention it... I think they did! Two worlds: one for hangout, one for combat. Yeah, that checks out!
@@FeyHunt I'm mostly talking about vibes. Atlus has been employing many of the techniques you discuss here since Persona 3 (probably even earlier), but it all culminated in Persona 5.
They should add more walking low detail npcs especially lumina square to make it feel more alive
@@YoloTub3 True! My suggestion is that they have different level of detail options in the graphic settings for different hardware. I want to be able to see like 100 people crossing in Lumina Square!
The world just feels like persona 5
@@BruhManGD As I said in other comments, they do take heavy inspirations. But you have to admit, it takes skill to create that same vibe.
Zzz npc are so good i haven't found (or noticed) any of them having the same model, and even better that they're each having small detail which making them quiet stand out and even comparable to playable characters
The old lady in the demolition site from chapter 1 looks exactly true same as the one walking on 6th street.
They do have a wider array of models. But I do have found multiple exact same NPCs at the same location in Random Play. Then there's that girl with pink bra and leggings who usually walk along Sixth Street and sits on Lumina Square. It's not a problem though! It's already far better than Genshin!
tbh i don't want to live there, full city no wild, random void area that can destroy you anytime, no thank
what makes me login everyday in this game is the fighting system that feels so good
I mean... the city is pretty big though. There's even an icy region in the north, a huge farmland area that supports the entire city. I bet there's also huge forest area too for the woods needed to run a city.
There's a big chance that you live in a city in real life as well, so living in new Eridu will not be too different, aside from the constant Hollow danger.
I still have some issues in the fighting system, primarily when to dodge or switch. Sometimes it doesn't even register a switch attack even though I time the yellow flashes right.
great video but i have to add that these revenue charts are Mobile only and since Genshin came to PC that platform has become a big part of that market especially with the added push of WuWa. I think it's fair to say that all current Hoyo and Kuro Games have a big playerbase on PC and depending on the game it might even be close to the mobile playerbase count if not more for certain games or future ones. Most content creators also play on PC and many people follow in their footsteps especially since PC has become a lot more accessible to many people so i think it's fair to say that a lot of big spenders and dedicated players are on PC. I think it's at least important to mention this because this chart leaves out a whole platform that is very important.. not just that it also leaves out consoles since some of them are or will release on consoles too. But to be honest that makes seeing the income of these games even more impressive because all of these games actually profit even more than "just" that.
Good point! I'm glad we're starting to see the shift back to PC for these AAA quality games. I never like playing on phones, since the screen is so limited and the neck pain is unbearable. We're living in the golden age for high quality gacha games!
yes zzz has the best vibe
@@MitternachtssternXIII 😆😆
This game design is simply too good for a gacha game, it inspires more future gacha games to push their effort. Too bad that the current generation of kids prefer instant gratification in and out speed run, they don't appreciate in the aesthetic designs but focuses more on how fast they can get to the climax of any game so then they can quit and go play another game in a repeated cycle.
And then they complained that the game sucks... tale as old as time. Some people just love to speed past through a field of flowers and then complain that they didn't see any flowers. I was one of them. That's why I've been making conscious effort to slow down and admire the scenery.
It's like I'm paying tribute to the great artists behind these games.
Honestly, I 100% agree with this video
Thank you for the kind words! 😄😄
I hadn't really given ZZZ a chance because the characters don't quite suit my tastes. They all look amazing, but to my eyes they look "weird" - like that girl with a shark tail... not sure what's going on there.
But I want to give the music a try - in fact Genshin's music was why I tried the game (that and it was free to play). I'm going to try listening to ZZZ's music for a bit and see if it hooks me. If it does, I'll try the game. :)
Sure thing! I mean when they first announced ZZZ, I thought I wasn't at all interested in its retro-modern setting. But once I gave it a try, the story got me hooked! The music is pretty good, but it's best enjoyed in context with the environment. The combat does get you hyped and the environment got you relaxed.
The combat is on the simpler side. It's just mostly memorizing a bit of combo and timing your dodges. It's enough complexity to keep you engaged, but not hard enough to frustrate you. The only thing I hated is how they imported Genshin/Star Rail's artifact system into this game as well, with substats RNG. But I really try to not care about that system, even if I'll be dealing suboptimal damage.
That's my 200 words review for the game!
@@FeyHunt I have heard the story is surprisingly good. I am intrigued by the setting - the Hollows, New Eridu, and so on. Heck... I'm buying a PS5 soon and I'll give ZZZ a whirl.
Been listening to the music for a few hours and it slaps. :)
@@John_II Damn! That's a bold investment! 😄😄
Although, knowing PS5's few selection of exclusives, I'd say it's worth considering getting a PC instead. Almost all of PS5 games is available at PC right now. But PS5 is still a far cheaper option at the moment for similar performance, unless you want to go secondhand parts picking.
Steamdeck is also a good alternative.
i'm the same way. at first i just glance the the art and design of zzz and think it probably wasn't for me. but boy i was so wrong. i love zzz and the characters and the world that hoyo make here. the music is definitely a big part of it and i don't even listen to a lot of electronic music stuff which there's quite a few on zzz. but i love it. i played wuwa since launch and probably could only remember 1 or 2 songs from it, but probably i could hum all zzz ost. i hope you'll give it a chance. you might be surprise.
@@elmariachi290188 Cannot wait to try it myself. :)
I don't think ZZZ was designed to save Hoyoverse money. While it does have a smaller scope compared to Genshin it's pretty clear that the money saved in that area was redirected towards the amount of detail, high quality animation, official content, art style/music and overall polish.
Not exactly. I think I should've included this in the video. The biggest production cost for Genshin is in making new regions every 9 months or so. It takes a whole lot of manhours and a big team to do that. Meanwhile, ZZZ is made to keep reusing the same map over and over again. That's where the savings comes from.
Animation and polish is not really that expensive, especially if you have animators in-house. But of course, without seeing their expenses, we can't say for sure how much they pay their animators.
Only time will tell. They will certainly tell us in an interview if ZZZ's production cost balloon up beyond Genshin. But I doubt that will ever happen.
@@FeyHunt I agree that Genshin likely costs more overall but what I meant is that ZZZ's smaller scope allows Hoyo to allocate more resources into the other aspects of the game. I don't think ZZZ or Star Rail was designed for the purpose of saving money but I agree that not having as grand of a scale as Genshin means that their production costs will be lower.
@@acuilnos And that is exactly what I'm talking about when I said saving money. Saving money in terms of not spending as much as Genshin. Optimizing their return on investment.
@@FeyHunt I don't think it was designed for that express purpose though, and the game itself shows how they are re-investing some of the money saved into other areas of the game. I think you are grossly underestimating just how much "animation and polish" actually costs. If it wasn't that expensive then how come ZZZ is being hailed as a standout in the gacha space even when compared to Genshin and HSR for these very reasons?
@@acuilnos You already said it yourself. It's the polish that causes it to stand out above the rest. The thing is, gacha game production is a huge conveyor belt of endless content. Quality is NEVER their number one priority. Quantity is the only way to feed players' hunger for content. This is the reason why a lot of times, gacha game events or mini-games are just so filled with problems. They just don't have time to polish it, to playtest.
My best guess is that ZZZ has a bigger leniency on this part. The thought is: "We already save so much money by lowering production scope, so let's spend an extra 30% on polish". And it shows. You would be insane to think that this ZZZ polish costs 3-4x extra work hours than Genshin's average quality. I think you grossly underestimated the amount of workhour needed to make a whole nation in Genshin.
To put it in perspective, here's my guess on how much ZZZ costs to make: an initial $70-120 million with a yearly running cost around that same amount. I'm a bit rusty since it's been several years since I worked in the industry. But from Genshin's scope, I can confidently make that guess.
Well said, this video really is made well.
Thank you for the kind words!
Omg u are absolutely right, I totally fall in this trap
Haha, then we can fall into this trap together! This is a pretty comfy trap to fall in, not gonna lie!
idk if its fair to compare genshin selling from march 2024 since it was patch 4.5 which was a patch before a character that has been teased and anticipated for 2 years coming next in 4.6, also genshin does not have 2 characters every single patch
We can talk statistics all we like, but that's not the point why I made that statement. It's just to highlight that ZZZ has the potential to follow in Genshin's footsteps.
And to be honest, I'm not interested in comparing incomes and revenues of every game to find out what's the best gacha game. I'm only interested in looking at its story and gameplay.
"this game is made to save money"
Meanwhile Da Wei even joked about how expensive the game is in the pre-launch special program.😂
They just put their budget into other aspects of the game.
The small environments are far more polished and creative, characters have their own unique skeletons and models instead of being built on the same five skeletons and base models, the rigging and animations are far higher quality, NPCs are so much higher quality you need to closely examine at times to see if it's a playable model or an NPC, every new S-rank gets a music video specifically made for them, cutscenes are insanely high quality etc.
Genshin being so much more expensive is about what a ludicrous resource sink open world games are, especially on the level of polish and variety Genshin's open world has.
Open world is a genre, not just a trendy feature to tack on.
With the ludicrous time and workforce that such an open world's development demands put into other aspects of a game you get a better polished, immersive and higher production value product at every aspect of the game.
Hi! I'm not sure if you understand my point in the video, because you do point out things that seems to agree with me, but also seems to explain things that I have already known...
When I said "save money", I mean to cut cost from having another Genshin-level of production cost. It's an opportunity cost.
Of course, both ZZZ and HSR are expensive to develop. But it's not as expensive as Genshin. The biggest cost in Genshin is in the need to make new game maps every 9 months or so.
As far as I know from working in game development, character modelling and animations are nowhere close to environment design for an open world game.
That's why I made the point in the video that I sincerely doubt that they want another open world game.
this the main reason I stopped playing genshin for her and now her for zzz
Haha... You mean HSR, right?
@@FeyHunt bro… yes i didn’t check the corrections
You speak well❤
I sub
Thank you for your kind words! I'll keep it up!
Well zzz like persona 5 basicly
I haven't played Persona 5, so I wouldn't know. But if I heard it right, Persona did have a small open world where you hang out with friends and the other world where you fight monsters. If that's what you mean, then yeah it's quite similar!
I am the one person that despises dubstep music, it just sounds like incoherent farting sound in my ears.
But when i played this game, i never expected dubstep music will sound so good paired with intense battle gameplay😅
I also really hate dubstep. It's just a mess that got me headaches, or reminded me of 2010s youtuber intros.
But ZZZ does it well to amp me up for the battle, especially at the end of the Hollow Zero run! I wish I had learned music theory to explain why!
wow I wana know why it cost that much, servers?
Marketing and payroll mostly. Servers are relatively cheap.
As a rule of thumb, marketing (ads, creator program, promotional events, etc) costs about 20-50% of a mobile game budget. And payrolls, well... you can just multiply their 1000-2000 employees and their work hours. Artists and programmers cost a lot.
I came to see if all comments agreed cause my first thought on reading the title was "does it?"
Oh, I'm surprised. Did you not like the world design? Any aesthetic that you don't like?
I think it's one of the points in your video. It's a bit much like real-life, whereas I'd probably prefer somewhat more wild/gamey. It also feels too small at times.
But rather than aesthetic, it's stuff like random stairs that you can walk up, then different stairs you can't (when there's barely any difference) that ruin any kind of immersion you'd get out of it being real-world like. And some invis walls, like at the road block that you totally can't walk around (but HSR has worse invis walls)
And, while not entirely world related, the game likes forcing the social aspect onto me, I am sometimes trying to get from one place to another, and I am suddenly thrown into an unexpected dialogue.
@@jurajojo2543 Hmmm... You do raise some valid points. The first one and the invisible wall is a matter of taste, so I can't argue for that, especially if you're not used to small open worlds.
Personally, I didn't find that to be an annoyance, more like wishing "oh, I wish I can go there!".
For the social aspect though, it is the major selling point of the game. Maybe some of it are forced against you, but I would argue that is part of the experience. Like if you're currently running errands and then a friend suddenly interrupt you midway.
The argument is still valid, though. There should be a way for you to hit snooze if you don't want to do this right now. Maybe if certain quest can only be completed when it's selected in the Quest screen.
Just for sharing at your point 1:11, the answer is NO.
Genshin, HSR and Zenless are project that delivered at the same time on a same table. Hoyo explore variety of genre instead focusing on one. Otaku exist and interest in many form. To reach all Otaku, you need medium for all form. But the allocation of team are based on 70:25:5. Even if Genshin failed on first day, HSR still will be launched.
anyway, i feel like love your content. Since most of it spot on. Just lack few info.
Again, this is a debate I had with other commenters. Yes, it's diversification to avoid cannibalizing their own playerbase. But it could also be financially motivated. This is a chicken and egg question.
The question is: Is decision to NOT make open world games because of budget limitation at the start of the project? Or are they given infinite budget to make another open world but choose not to? Without asking them directly, we don't know for sure.
I think it's a mixed of both. It's both to diversify and to optimize their production cost.
If other game have more details..more storage is needed...
Not necessarily! As I said in the video, more details doesn't mean high quality textures or high poly models. ZZZ manage to achieve that vibrant world by reusing assets all around. It all comes down to optimization and compression. Which is a big problem for Call of Duty developers apparently.
I won't deny that would cause storage issues in the long run, but it's just the downside you'll get with live service games. You'll get new maps, more characters, more enemy models with every updates.
Personally, i enjoy genshin world more than zzz, like just walking to narukami shrine for example. For urban modern world, i enjoy Persona5 and GTA V to the point that i want to live there. I acknowledge zzz is very polished experience and higly detailed world, but idk its not penetrating my heart enough. zzz has more "real" cutscene compared to genshin standing while talking repeating the same 5 animations
And it's totally okay! My videos are by no means trying to invalidate your preferences. I'm just pointing out things that make it good. Maybe some future developers are listening so they can make their games a lot better.
One of my commenters in the last video is referring to those standing around talking as "gently undulating torso dialogue scenes" 🤣🤣
Awesome video that summarizes most of my thoughts on the game's world in only 8 minutes. Though, however, I don't think its fair to say "the real world sucks so we need game worlds to immerse ourselves in to feel better" in my opinion. After all, the game itself already presents us with believable alternate negative emotions that we feel about in the real world as well and that is ALSO part of how it is made believable. I'm sorry if this comes off as rude, but it's tiring seeing people always glorify positive feelings because we're humans. We relate to both positive and negative feelings and alienating negative feelings only makes game worlds less believable imo.
Great example of that is the story I just finished in the game, which was Rina's story. *Spoiler warning* The game didn't present us with a magical way to cure granny's illness. Instead, it ended on a bittersweet note, where we can only hope for a cure to be found in the future.
Anyway, I don't want my comment to end on a mostly negative note so I'll just say that overall I absolutely loved your video and you have talked about most of my issues with worlds in other gacha games.
Emotional balance is always good for us
Oh no, I am not saying that it's all have to be positive emotion. After all, video games do have its sad moments.
Video game escapism give you something real life cannot: control. Even at the worst point of the game, you still have control over what you're doing. There's no risk of failure, nor there is anyone rushing you to do stuff.
That's not the case for real life. This is why a lot of people find solace when their real life are in such a dark path. I have heard many people who are saved just because they play video games.
@@FeyHunt I see where you're coming from now and it looks like I interpreted the last section of your video in a different way. I usually see people saying "real life sucks and games exist to help forget about it" as a way to justify completely running away from their real life problems to enter a world full of sunshine and rainbows, resulting in some games being completely out of touch with reality and not being believable anymore.
But it looks like you were talking about the mechanics of the game rather than the content itself, which I totally agree with. As an example, one of my favourite games, Celeste, is full of negative emotions in the story itself, but in the gameplay you always get back up and are given a quick chance to continue playing.
Thanks for replying 🤗and great job on the video again.
@@loafofbred656 No worries! Yes, some people are addicted to video games and treat them more like a drugs to escape their real-life responsibilities. That's not great. But then some people are in hard times and just want to have that tiny bit of sunshine to keep pushing onwards. To have that one moment every day that they can look forward to. That's what I'm fighting for in this feedback, to have better-made worlds.
Perhaps too grandiose, even to my standards. It's also quite ironic that we escape our own problems by solving another problem in another world.
Speaking of Celeste, I have that game for a long time, but I'm a little bit concerned that I may hurt my fingers again. The last time I played a precision platformer, I got my thumb all blistered from the endless repeat trial and error...
BECAUSE THE COP IS HOT !
Oh I do love NEPS agent design! Qingyi is my bae!
Persona formula.
Yep! But it's also amazing that they can pull off their own unique flavor of it.
Their upcoming game have lower cost, its just basically a gacha stardew valley
Well, I wouldn't go that far... You can compare the hangout events with Stardew, but that's pretty much it.
Combat has always been the forefront of all Hoyo games. And for their action games, they did design it well to be satisfying.
The world is rather boring for me. It’s the music, combat and fan service that has me hooked 😂
I haven’t seen fan service like this since the early 00s and I have never played a game with combat this tight.
I suppose it's to each our own. Music is on point, but combat and fanservice? I think it's still great, but definitely not the best in the industry.
If fanservice gacha is what you're looking for, you're really missing out on Blue Archive, NIKKE, and Azur Lane. They literally had 18+ toys as part of an outfit for their characters. Fanservice in ZZZ is weak sauce compared to that. That being said, they had a little bit too much fun over there that I'm genuinely afraid of them...
I do agree that the combat is tight and satisfying, but it still kinda lacks that final sauce. Maybe because it's really all about timing your dodges?. I still prefer Wuthering Waves at its peak spiciness. You can easily die at the high-level trials.
@@FeyHunt I’m really not a fan of mobile games, so Hoyo games are the only ones I’ve ever liked and BA/AL aren’t really to my liking 😅
Haven’t gotten to really play WuWa yet, would like to. Console gamer, lacking suitable phone/PC.
I haven’t ever played anything like ZZZ, the combat just pounds. It’s not so much the mechanics or gameplay of the combat, it’s the visuals and the sound design that all meshes with it. When you do a quick assist and you’re blocking multiple attacks from a boss and it’s just slamming and the slow motion dodged. It’s all very intense. My first clear of Withering Garden on level 11 had my heart pounding and left me shaking, been a long time since a game has done that to me 😂
@@rickybobby5153 Oh I totally get that satisfying clang! It is what keeps me going as I break through the bosses!
You're in for a treat, my friend. Mobile games are no longer cheap 2D Waifus. It's now on par with AAA quality games from the west.
This is the golden age of gacha gaming, and I'm all for it!
@@FeyHunt Golden age of anime games in general I think. I never even liked any of them before Genshin. They were always so clunky - like the Bandai games I’d tried. All of these games coming out are really ground breaking. Maybe even a new golden age of RPGs in general, China is dominating, like I said I haven’t seen fan service like this since the early 00s from JRPGs. It’s refreshing to be as excited for games again as I was when I was a hormonal teenager 😂
@@rickybobby5153 Haha, yeah! I've been watching the indie space for Eastern games, which has been booming for a decade. It's good that they finally break through to mainstream now!
And I'm gonna try as much as I can! I want to see how much they nailed the story and gameplay.
Its just regular(our fucking world) but slightly tweakied and in apocalypse though? Are you tweaking my boy??
In game design, you can have the same regular world and stylize it differently. You can design it in a way where it's a mess or an absolute masterpiece. In this video, I was highlighting the charm put in this world.
If you don't see that charm while playing it, then perhaps this game is not to your taste.
Bro, don't go around comparing WuWa to any hoyo games 😭 it's like comparing a tricyle to a Trance X Advanced Pro 29 Se.
.
But we can and should compare games to discuss its key points though. That is how we can judge which game is for us.
There are a lot of things where WuWa failed at like the story when compared to ZZZ. But there are also things that can only be done right in WuWa, like its open world design and its environmental storytelling.
No game is above criticism.
Hoyoverse doesn't want another genshin -level game in their catalog?
What is "genshin-level game" exactly lol?
Have you ever think it is because they want to capture different players that don't want genshin instead?
Genshin-level in terms of budget and scope. You have a point, they do want to capture different playerbase and avoid cannibalizing their own game's captive audience. But you can't disprove that it was also financially motivated, where they want to make games with lower budget and optimize their return on investment.
Here's my big question to you: they could easily make Star Rail and ZZZ an open world game while still maintaining their combat design. But they chose not to, and opting for a closed world instead. Why is that? I bet a lot of players would love an open world Honkai Star Rail where you can seamlessly travel in Penacony or drive with your car in New Eridu.
@@FeyHunt Because two open world game simultaneously will eat each game playtime too much probably, good open world exploration in other game means people can enjoy spending time in that game instead of genshin.
Hoyo doesn't want this, that is why auto battle in hsr, and 10 minutes daily in zzz.
Hoyo wants players to play several of their games simultaneously and they know players have limited time.
@@Richkero1995 That's part of it, as I already said to avoid cannibalizing their own captive audience's time. But we are now stuck discussing about a chicken and egg problem here: design choice first or financial motivation first?
Obviously, financial consideration always comes before a project design is made, one of them being the production budget. So is their choice to not make another open-world game happen because of the financial decision to limit the production budget. Or were they given enough budget to make another open-world game, but they chose not to?
I don't think we can verify this without a direct statement from Hoyoverse. if you do find them, please let me know. But I bet the answer is somewhere in between.