I really like the twist that Batman inspired his villains. He realizes that his whole vengeance message is inspiring the wrong people and at the end he turns to inspire hope. A good character arc and makes me more excited for future sequels
Hush is an extremely good villain for Reeves' Batman. Especially considering we got some really good Jokers already in a short span of time. Hoping he'll explore some court of owl stuff too.
I think the Mad Hatter could be a cool villain in the Reeves universe. He could hypnotize people into committing murder or crimes or whatever! And when they get caught and snap out of it they do not remember anything making it almost impossible to question them. Could be pretty fun for a Noir mystery setting.
What I like about this is that Bruce Wayne only by appearance alone is known to Gotham. Not by his actions which was very evident with the conversation with the future mayor. So if Hush does roll up he can however he wants as Bruce Wayne and no one will think twice.
this could lead well into batman having to develop his “Bruce Wayne Persona”, as the lack of developing that aspect of him allows hush to pass as bruce in front of the public
I know you might not see this, but when you next get the chance, I would love to see you try to make some kind of Mortal Kombat moc. It would be awesome.
Personally I disagree on Scarecrow. I’d rather see villains we haven’t had a good adaptation of, like Mr Freeze, or someone we haven’t seen at all, like Hush or Hugo Strange
Just saw the deleted scene with the joker, and unfortunately it is confirmed to be him. However I do like the direction they are taking with him and it feels like he’s pulling the strings and not dragged in like he’ll be the final villain of the trilogy
I only just saw the movie itself today, and the main thing that strikes me about this video, I'd think they'd not want to do what MP is hoping here if for no other reason it sounds simply too close to what this first movie was. A secret young figure who was wronged earlier in life in connection to the Wayne family, gradually wreaks havoc in the present day in a conspiratorial manner... is that not pretty much the movie we just saw??
It only confirms that the person in the deleted scene is the Joker. Also, the laugh of the person at the end of the movie is not the same as the laugh of the Joker in the deleted scene.
@@johndon2536 people are done with seeing Joker. He's overused now in these movies and I think people would much rather see other Batman characters portrayed in this series of movies rather than going back to yet another Joker
@@johndon2536 Joker is definitely overused and I love Hush. Just like Matpat said Hush storyline fits perfectly with the story and we haven't seen him on the big screen yet.
I felt like this Riddler’s character design was inspired by Hush with the costume, the history, and darker elements like the psychotic planning and saw traps he used on his victims. So I don’t think Hush will be introduced into this movie universe because he already exists through the Riddler
All the villains are going to be like that in this universe though, they are all pretty much gonna be morbid serial killers even if they have different motivations
That's what I was thinking the whole time watching the movie. I feel like with this theory here though it could work that the Riddler could pull the strings from the background and they could use the Penguin and Hush as the main part of what we see in the next film. Maybe they could introduce a lesser known villain as well to make the story grander and misdirect us constantly which would be a great thrill ride.
Yeah. I mostly know Riddler from the really old Batman (where they said POW and stuff) and in that one he was just a weirdo that wire a green suit. I always hated that version because all his plans would work if he didn't leave clues.
i like the twist that this theory was already proven false DURING THE THEORY ITSELF so this is just them exploring a cool possibility more than trying to guess future events like usual. it is functionally the same as any other theory video but this one feels more fun because of the framing, i feel
Matpat is always 50/50 sometimes because of plot holes he looks into and sometimes because creators see his predictions and scrap their ideas so they can prove him wrong.
I fully believe that Reeves knows what he's doing with this. He subtly drops the joker in the first movie to keep diehard joker fans coming to see the movie just to look for future Easter eggs. However, he sets up enough lore that he can go so many ways with the villain of the next movie. The joker is going to be saved for last. Even if there's hints along the way to track the joker's rise.
The Joker could be like the BCU’s (Batman Cinematic Universe) Thanos. Maybe he assembles a team of every villain that winds up in Arkham Astylum, Sinister 6 style.
I love the idea of Bruce realizing there's a more meaningful and peaceful way he can save Gotham by using his family's money to build better schools, affordable housing, free hospitals, ect which will create more job opportunities, get people off the streets, and reduce crime.
Lmao all of those things you mention have been done even in real life and it does not work like that Conclusion: humans are dumb that don’t care and will never use such opportunities This is a cruel world with cruel people, thats why there are police…. and BATMAN!
Just as a side on Matt Reeves talking about the deleted Joker scene, the way he describes it almost sounds a lot like an allusion to Silence of the Lambs. That might be the way to bring back Joker; not as the main villain, but a supporting character in the same vein as Hannibal Lector.
@@carlosmartinezjr3501 For sure, I don’t disagree with you. Only thing is, with the way the Reeves trilogy is setting itself up and the fact that they gotta do something fresh with the Joker, a Hannibal Lector homage is one of the few ways they can go.
Although, Joker is my favorite Batman villain, I was actually somewhat disappointed that they're bringing him in so quick and was hoping they would give some other characters a moment on the big screen. Still, with sequels having not been greenlit initially, I guess it could be a dangling carrot for the studio and another villain may get the focus next while Riddler & the Joker are still locked up to eventually escape down the road.
@Gerald Cleveland Well, it'd be cool if they followed the whole idea that Bruce proposed to her, and she left him. Iy would add to his sadness but I would want to see more of Bruce's fake public persona. Casting wise, I feel like Emma Stone would be a pretty good Phantasm.
Matt Reeves said that it's not meant to be a sequel tease but rather a way to wrap up the theme of how "Gotham's story never ends" and a way to make his version of Gotham feel lived in.
I'd like if he had a sort of hannibal lector role across the three films, have batman occasionally check in on him about cases maybe once or twice in the sequel
I think it would be cool to have him like in the background of the next couple movies hinting at the last movie of the trilogy when him and Batman go at it
Now that I know a sequel is coming, I've had an idea in my head for a while. If they do make more than the one sequel, I think they should save the Joker until the very last movie in this timeline. Not only would it make this timeline more unique from the other ones, but it might even actually make sense. Who better be The Batman's final face-off with than the Bat's greatest enemy. What do you guys think of this idea?
I like the idea of leaving the joker till the end, but I think it would be good if they somehow made a film that incorporated the 3 jokers, the criminal, the comedian and the clown I think that would be a good way to put the one true joker into the movies
@@crazypopcorn7801 he’s not going to be in this universe, the director of Joker mentioned it was its own universe and it had nothing to do with the upcoming batman movie
I legit whispered to my partner in the theater when they said the reporter's name was Eliot, "Oh my God, are they setting up Hush?" I want Hush so bad. He's one of my favorite villains. I own the Hush comics, they're freaking amazing. And Hush in Arkham City was such a disturbing side mission. Kevin Conroy's voice acting of Hush sent literal chills down my spine the first time I played it. I seriously hope Matt Reeves is deliberately misleading everyone. That maybe the guy in the cell is the Joker, but it's sort of a Hannibal Lector/Buffalo Bill thing. That Joker isn't the main antagonist of the next film, but he has info about Hush and Batman has to go to Arkham to interrogate him. Something. I just want Hush!
having the next batman use a silence of the lambs like framework would be cool considering this one had riddler framed off a mix of zodiac and the se7en film
Jush would be perfect for the third movie. Bruce needs to be developed more and the public needs to trust Batman more. So this is why I think the Court of owls would make the perfect sequel, while Hush is reserved for the last. If they bring C of 🦉 they can't wrap it up in one movie so having it in the second also makes the most sense.
Despite the Joker identity being confirmed I don't think he is necessarily the next main villain. There is also going to be an Arkham Asylum spinoff series on HBOmax that he may factor into. The movie did in fact lay down good groundwork for Hush to be in a later film. Hush working with the Court of Owls would make for an amazing movie, and I think it's relatively plausible, even likely.
yes thats what i was saying , this casting could be like thanos's in first avenger , and he didnt show up until 4 movies so idk why mat is freaking out
According to some interviews Reeves and Pattinson are actually interested in doing Hush along with some other villains (Court of Owls, Calendar Man and Mr Freeze) so even if the man in Arkham isn't Hush, there's a good chance he'll be introduced in some other way. Also worth noting that Reeves has also stated that he's not even sure he wants to do Joker in the movies, so there's that too.
Yes! The possibilities for the next villain are still open as Matt Reeves has said that he wanted this batman universe to get the feeling like it is full of villains. Joker could appear in a sequal but maybe more as a side character that fills in the clues for batman in Arkham
yes thats what i was saying , this casting could be like thanos's in first avenger , and he didnt show up until 4 movies so idk why mat is freaking out
I mean, Hush is awesome, but they're putting Callendar Man into a movie? I'm excited to see that. He's one of my favorite really obscure Batman villains.
Honestly, I'd love to see other Batman villains get the spotlight in future films. I mean, how crazy would it be to see a live-action Clayface? Or, heck, Poison Ivy or Bane?
Poison Ivy was in Gotham and Bane was in Dark Knight Rises. But I agree with your sentiment, other Batman villains deserve the spotlight, other than just the Joker.
I agree about the Joker, pretty joker-ed out. Hush, Court of Owls, Professor Pyg, Zsasz or even a redefined Calendar Man would be great for this universe
As an accountant, I was so happy when I heard them say Riddler was originally a forensic accountant. If anyone can uncover corruption, it's someone who's looking for fraud.
While I love the Joker as a villain, I kinda hope they keep having him in a Hannibal Lecter-like consulting position for Batman, like how he was in the deleted scene, rather than being a proactive villain as he’s normally written in past Batman renditions. That way, audiences that want to see the Joker can be satisfied, while also having other villains getting their own time in the spotlight. It’d have to depend on if future sequels start following a version of The Long Halloween storyline though (just as this movie follows variations of Year One), since that could mean bringing in Calendar Man to fill that role instead (unless Joker replaces Calendar Man for that role, or Calendar Man and Joker both share the role to play off one another)…
Honestly they should just forget about joker. I think they should use the court of owls. They could further explore the corruption of Gotham and Bruce’s legacy. maybe they begin to hunt down Batman because of what he stands for, the courts main goal is to shape Gotham in a way that benefits their view. Also since they are almost as old as Gotham we could get some interesting lore on how Gotham became so bad. Maybe it could relate to Thomas wants too, yk with the sins of the father. It felt like a cope out when they just say that Thomas Wayne wasn’t actually a bad person, he was perfectly good and noble.
I hope that they do a combination of these 2 things: They're obviously going to make the joker into a character going forward, but I hope they make him a minor villain and introduce Hush or another villain too.
IT SHOULD BE HUSH! Here's another reason: I personally find attempts to give Joker a background just...odd. It misses the point of the character. To me, Joker represents pure evil, and there are countless times Joker says Batman "completes him". It's fun to see the dynamic of other villains such as Riddler, Hush, Mr. Freeze, etc., because Batman truly wants to help them. He wants to reform them. He wants to see them change. Joker is supposed to be a reminder that not everything has a tragic backstory or needs to. The Joker is not supposed to make sense or be someone you can relate to. Batman exists because evil exists.
The joker is also an unfortunate reminder that not everyone can be helped. No matter how many times he gets locked up in Arkham he never ever changes. The joker also seems to represent the enormous downside to Batman's whole "no killing" rule since keeping an eternal madman like that alive just means more people are gonna be hurt or killed down the line. That's something that Jason Todd even mentions in multiple stories, something along the lines of "if you had just killed the joker, he would've never killed me". He's the perfect villain that directly highlights all of Batman's flaws and I love that he's getting the attention he deserves, but I do agree it's a bit too much right now. Especially when a lot of these movies completely miss the point of the Joker, and I would definitely love to see more other Batman villains get the spotlight. Hush is fantastic and I would absolutely love to see him in the sequel but honestly I would also love to see Two Face or Jason Todd just as much. They're some of my other favorite Batman villains, especially Jason. He's always been my favorite of the robins and I love how he directly contrasts Bruce in his methods despite both wanting more or less the same thing. I know he got his own entire animated movie years ago but I'd still love to see him on the big screen in live action. I feel these new directors could really do him justice if they understand the source material.
Also, I'm so tired to see another Joker again. Joaquin Phoenix is the last Joker that I think it's enough. Give another Batman villains another chance like Hush, Mr Freeze, Poison Ivy, and many more. Especially for Mr Freeze and Poison Ivy who hasn't been redeemed since Batman and Robin movie.
@@SurotaOnishi while i think your right in that the jokers lack of a backstory backs up his character of senseless violence and meaningless chaos, i think it can work both ways. when joker doesn't have a backstory, just being the agent of chaos he is is a great opposite to batman with a lot of the reasons you pointed out, but he also pulls this off when using the right backstory. such as the killing joke , in one day the joker experienced a barrage of mental trauma just as Bruce did on the night his parents died both having similar origins, but while Bruce sees this and becomes the batman so no one ever feels what he did, the joker accepts that the world is a cruel and meaningless place and mirrors it in his "world burning" chaotic mentality.
I agree with you 100%. I haaaaate when people try to give joker a backstory, as you said, he's supposed to just be pure evil, and the mysteries of his past help with that. I did love Joaquin's joker, but that was made specifically with the idea of "what would joker be like in the real world? How could someone become him in the real world?" which was really awesome to explore. But the canon Joker is a John Doe. He's no one and that makes him incredibly dehumanized and scaryyyy. I loved how Heath Ledger's Joker literally told a different story about how he got his scars every time he talked about them in the movie. He's a lying, manipulative psychopath, and that's why he's so creepy and entertaining. He's literally just playing games with everyone.
@@kettlepetal3138 don't forget that they also literally couldn't identify him either. When they arrested the joker in that movie they tried to fingerprint him and collect dental records but literally nothing showed up. He was literally no one, entirely off the grid and that was really cool and unsettling to think about
This riddler really felt like a genuine Riddler he gave good but hard clues, he was elusive and he had a following this was definitely the best Riddler and the best and most realistic batman movie
"good but hard clues" to riddles that Batman solves within 5 seconds maybe longer. Also the riddles just lead to exposition and require little too no agency from Batman
@@VonJay Riddles that batman failed to actually understand in his bid to rush it. Same with the murder weapon, he thought it was of no use, but only when he realized it was a tool for carpets then and then he saw it. The Riddler even thought he knew and let the bombs be so they could both watch it, but he was mistaken, Batman just didnt knew.
I think it is likely that this is heading into trilogy planning territory, with maybe Hush as the main villain of the second movie, and ending the trilogy with the Joker. I also think it is likely that the Joker could be kept in the background to coordinate the actions of other villains. I can see a scene where Joker's lair is Arkham, and he engineers the downfall of other villains specifically so they can end up in Arkham where they can fall under his sway. I would also be very interested in seeing grounded gritty Matt Reeves versions of Clayface, Poison Ivy, and Killer Croc.
I agree and I’d also love to see a more grounded Mr Freeze. That backstory is chilling(pun intended) with him doing everything he can to save his dying wife.
I personally really want to see a scarecrow in a movie. I think the whole fear aspect of him would fit Arkham really well, also hes my fav batman villain
I really like the Riddler because whenever Batman is faced against him, he has to use his detective skills to defeat him, which is an aspect of his character that the films seldom explore.
But riddler in this is mixed with hush. I think that two face or deathstroke or maybe blackmask would work better than a villain who's look was adapted to riddler
Joker just went along with the plan lmao If he can't be controlled by geniuses like Strange or Luthor, what makes you think he'll be manipulated by some rando surgeon and The Riddler of all people
There were some parts of the trailer were I thought it was Hush, not Riddler. And Joker saying,"Everyone loves a comeback story", I think he was referring to Riddler making a comeback. So I think Riddler will return as Hush. I think he'll get inspiration for his mask, from how he tapped his victims. But I don't think he'll return in the second movie, Hush is too interesting of a villain, to show up in the sequel. And it sounds like Matt Reeves is sticking with Joker being the antagonist for the sequel.
I might be the only one to think this but I'd love to see an entire movie where Batman faces off against Batzarro with the Ventriloquist pulling the strings.
I think the next villain should be Scarecrow. If they play their cards right here, The Scarecrow could be the most terrifying Batman live-action villain again. (Not that he was before….. looking at you Gotham TV show) He could be a man broken by fear, broken by The Batman. A man, molded with the fear, and anger of a true villain. He could be a simple man, Johnathan Crane, a psychiatrist at Arkham. He would speak to the inmates, have a nice life but then he is robbed. And the Batman, is too preoccupied with something else, and is too late to help poor, poor Johnathan. He now has a certain hatred, and he needs to take it out on something. He will use the one thing that people can never control. Their fear.
Especially since Batman had a line in the movie where he said that he thought he mastered fear, but he learned he still feared losing the people he cared about.
I would like Hush to be the next villain rather than the Joker for some of the reasons you point out, but another villain I think would work as well is Victor Fries, a.k.a. Mr. Freeze, one, he could work as a reflection of Bruce when dealing with the loss, or are at risk of losing, a loved one(s). Both became scarred and vengeful, Bruce losing his parents, vowing to fight all crime, and Fries at risk of losing his wife, vowing to get back at Boyles. Two, it fits with showing Bruce becoming a better detective, learning about Freezes past and learning about the corrupted man Ferris Boyles. And lastly, it would be nice to see Freeze, since there hasn't been a live action adaptation since Arnold Schwarzenegger's role as the man with a frozen heart.
i've read an interview of matt reeves. he said that mr freeze's story is interesting to do, because like you said, he's got powerful story. the problem is according to matt, is how to bring grounded version of mr freeze. the director still looking into it
Mr. Freeze is terrible lead villian is he doesnt have direct conflict with batman, hes commiting crimes to save his wife, mr. freeze is not a obstacle for batman - batman is obstacle for mr. freeze. For example Joker is destroying batmans legacy and hush destroying bruce as a person. Even in Nolan trilogy same problem with Bane - no personal conflict, thats why demon head daughter is so important to glue up the story
The joker isn't meant to be a insight to the sequel. It's like a cool interaction, a crossover of villains. In comics crossovers happen so much its not treated as a big role. Also I think it makes sense they are talking in Arkham because you don't see that in movies often. I would love to see a Arkham break out movie. Also Matt Reeves made it clear they don't want to do joker.
I agree with Mat. As much as I love the Joker, I was excited for this movie because they finally used a villain not seen much in the cinematic universe. And now... they're just going back to Joker. And he also made a good point, since they focused more on the detective and less on crime-fighting-vigilante Joker wouldn't really hit the same.
100% my thoughts on this! I was so disappointed when it was implied that it's the Joker at the end. I was so excited to see other villains in action but no, Joker again...
From what I hear Matt has said he’s not really interested in doing Joker, and that he and Pattinson have been interested in doing Hush or Court of Owls
@@gatewaybois Yeah but it's not only movies. He's in everything. He's frequent in games, comics, merch, he even got his own movie. I just want someone else to have the spotlight for the next movie.
Having Hush in live action seems WAY cooler to me than joker. I absolutely loved The Arkham Knight as an antagonist against Batman, almost like a fight to the death against himself, not someone madly obsessed with him and getting attention.
Matpat: Puts theory out... Warner: releases deleted scene contradicting MatPat's theory... Me: Well, at least we didn't have to wait two years to confirm another wrong theory...
But what if this is a marketing scheme to divert our expectations and floor us with a complete different premise? Wouldn't be the first time they've done something like this :)
@@LordBloodySoul Yeah I definitely see it more like a diversion, or like Warner saying “here, enjoy some Joker’s footage since in the next movie we’re not focusing on him anymore”
To be fair though, Reeves did say something along the lines of "the Joker won't be the bad guy in the next film. This is basically here to show trouble is always brewing in Gotham"
@@hydrocritical2268 I disagree. It’s that contrast we NEED. Just like the contrast between Riddler and Falcone, with Falcone being corruption incarnate, and Riddler fighting corruption. Same way with Joker and C.O.O.. Joker is chaos, C.O.O. is order. That contrast would be an amazing mechanic.
I love the joker and all but having another live adaptation of him in a span of a few years is probably a bit tiring to see. I like this theory cos it fits well with Pattinsons version of the bats. Would be nice to see other batman villains that havent been shown the spotlight that often. Would love to see Reeves play with the prospects of a live action court of owls. Now that would make a great story.
@@rawfermews4186 I think this universe is more of a dark, realistic version of Batman. Poison Ivy is way too flashy and also not very realistic since she has powers
I for sure want to see a villain that hasn’t been used in a live action movie before like clayface or slade. There are so many good Batman villains and so much potential with this series.
OK but I got to say this would be a fresh new face to Batman cinema. And personally the perfect path to take in my opinion. Hush's story fits well with where we are left off in the Batman like Mattpatt said. And it's a real problem under The Wayne family name. I'd love to see it. And I hope they take it in a different direction. Not saying I don't like the Joker, just feels like we've seen a lot of the Joker now. I'd love to see him in this universe just not so soon.
Honestly, I think they should do Dark Victory and Hush with Jason Todd being the main Robin. Joker should be saved for the third movie were he is revealed as someone whose been working with the Court of Owls and seeks to recruit all of Batman’s rogues. Like another commenter said, they could introduce a bunch more in a true Hush movie and further solidify that Riddler knows Batman is Bruce Wayne.
I feel like a Killer Croc in this universe would be great too. He’s always been a darker character in any batman story and I’d really like to see him in this one. I genuinely urge you to imagine how it could be done. There’s so much possibility in this version of the character. A couple HMs would be Bane, Scarecrow, Mr Freeze.
Scarecrow is what I want the most. He is such an amazing and cool villian. He was incredibly underutilized in the Nolan trilogy. If the actor in those movies reprises his role that would be the cherry on top.
I haven’t watched a film theory in forever but I love the second opinion this other commentator is showing. Whenever I watch these videos, I’ll sometimes say to my self “well that’s a stretch” but now there seems to be someone voicing the skepticism for me! Great video and love what you have done with the channel
A decent part of mat's argument on why he's actually hush is the "Gotham loves a comeback strory" line. Couldn't the joker just be saying the line to the riddler on how he can 'come back' to the crime stage of Gotham. At this point in the story all of what he thought he was doing has been destroyed and the last thing he relied on was the assassination attempt executed by his loyal followers. His whole operation by this point has been completely uprooted, cant the joker just be telling him that he can start over and remake what he once was.
Yeah, but this is Mat, he has to over-think everything. Although, he does make good points after that, so I'd argue it was only a tiny portion that argued with that.
I'd agree it was a bit of a stretch if he continued with the "it IS Hush" rather than "it should be," but he didn't. After the moment with the interview, he only mentioned the comeback line a couple of times, and the rest was him explaining how Hush could fit into this series perfectly. It's not PERFECT, but after the whole "Sans is Ness" bit... what do you expect? LMAO Imo though, it was a pretty decent theory and I'm with him on this one. The Joker isn't a bad villain by any means, but it'd be nice to see more villains get their time in the spotlight for sure
The Batman was actually really good! Robert Patterson did really well compared to how people thought he was gonna actually do “Bruce why are you sparkling young master?”
Can we just appreciate how Mat being able to bounce off of his editor's responses makes this far more dynamic? Great way of keeping the ball rolling and driving the video forward.
Matt Reeves has said that just because The Joker appears at the end of the Batman dosen't mean he's in the sequel. Matt says that Joker's in the film for world-buliding and that the next villain hasn't been decided yet.
@@return2monkey925 in his defense, that's the running joke of the video lol probably just don't want the research they did to go to waste so they just upload it anyway
Couldn’t it be possible that Hush is just behind everything? He may not have been explicitly shown but MatPat even said that Hush has manipulated the Joker as well as many others. This new Joker could be speaking on behalf of Hush and also be trying to enlist Riddler to the sort of “team.”
Honestly, it seems like a great way to have a "get your cake and eat it too" situation. It could even be pull out into some bit of rage motivation (or whatever passes for motivation for the character) for their Joker. He's upset that he was manipulated rather than the manipulator.
@@scaper8 a Joker who can be manipulated is hardly the Joker. the Joker is someone who is either “invited” out of respect/fear or who crashes the party. im sure there are instances of the Joker being manipulated but after seeing the well received Arthur Fleck and the “i would never actually be a fixed figure in the crime world” that is Heath ledgers joker, i would like to see the Clown Prince of Crime either closer to his incarnation in the Animated Series(aka Leto-esque) or more resembling the comic take (Michael myers + chucky-esque vibe).. im so sick of the forced desire to see anything less. one thing The Batman movie does exceedingly right, is make Batman and more specifically the BATMOBILE feel terrifying in a legends/myth sense. if criminals see batman as this unstoppable presence lurking in the shadows, we should see the joker as this unpredictable force of nature that shows up just to corrupt everything Batman cares to protect, namely the people, the peace, the city etc. Batman hates criminals so joker becomes THE prince of crime. robbing banks, erasing or folding competitors that dont amuse him(penguin survives because he knows how to befriend joker), all of this should be in the jokers repetoire..not a sad anarchist clown with zero motivations
MatPat is right about story potential, and as an aspiring writer/director, I have potential ideas. My ideas are centered around the Batfamily, and all villains get major focus, but I also set up some underrated folks. One villain that I would love to see in Matt Reeves' universe is the First Victim. I heard this guy is an underrated villain whose secret identity is that of the first-ever criminal Bruce ever beat up as Batman. He even has an entire organization called the Victim Syndicate, which is made of (you guessed it) criminals that Batman has beaten up over the years and if I have to guess, it's not our beloved Rogues Gallary, but rather, the regular thugs and hoodlums that make the streets of Gotham. To me, it would be perfect, since it would expand upon the idea of Batman creating his enemies more while forcing him to confront the consequences of his actions. Sure, it would have to take years before we get there, but imagine an older Batman owning up to what he's done and what he failed to do when he had the chance even more so. I would also enjoy seeing Matt Reeves adapting another of our favorite baddies, Bruce's ex-girlfriend Andrea Beaumont aka our beloved hook-handed skull fighter the Phantasm.
I love The Joker. I think he is easily one of the greatest comic book villains ever made. But I do NOT want him in the next movie or even anytime soon….. There are so many villains that deserve some love and screen time.
I really want a good scarecrow movie and I think the best comic I've seen of him is his part in the No man's land comic where the city is destroyed and everyone is basically in a gang war for pieces of the city. Scarecrow doesn't have his fear toxin but he's a psychologist and he knows how to make people afraid. Stoking their paranioa and turning all of them against each other. I think that could make for a really cool second movie if it were scaled up from the comics to make scarecrow a more city wide threat.
“Oh sure mom, yeah Ill go to school and become a psychiatrist. Now look at me, im dressed up like a scarecrow running away from a man dressed like a bat”
Idk why but when reading this comment I couldn’t help but think of the Batman Ninja animated movie. Doesn’t have scarecrow but it does have all the villains in a huge gang war for all of Japan. It’s really underrated you should give it a watch if you haven’t already.
I actually saw a set up for Scarecrow through the "drops". It seems like a drug he would manipulate considering it's eye drops. I don't know. Could be something
I love how matpat put holes in his theory first, so no one can do it and weaken the theory. He uses it to emphasize his theory, making it believable even if he handed you the holes in his theory. Like literally right in your face.
Battinson has been pushing for Court of Owls in interviews, so I can see a spot for Thomas Elliot to be in allegiance with them. He is upper class after all, and I'm sure the Court would appreciate a Bruce Wayne imposter. He could also take the place of the supposed "Thomas Wayne Jr" (both being Thomases)
I see where you're coming from, but i feel like having a villain that shares some features with the riddler but then adds in having more of batman's skillset might make for a strong continuation of the story of it's done well
15:42 I felt that. joker is my personal fav villain ever, but batman has some of the most diverse villains that seeing a hush, poison ivy, or maybe even a different bane would be interesting. joker will always rein supreme, but at some point, he gets way overused.
I think joker is a huge fan fave across the board, but I personally think that's a lot to do with Mark Hamill's delivery and performance in the original animated series.
Yea, seeing a cool underrated villain like the previously mentioned Hush or Profesor Pig would be fucking awesome. Or even a more well known villain like Mr Freeze or Two face but actually well adapted and scary.
Also, in batman Hush, the animated movie, the writers realised that it would be WAY to obvious that Hush would be Bruce's best friend from childhood that we'd never seen before, so they made Hush the Riddler, and continued that storyline into the Harley Quinn animated series. The link between Riddler and Hush ingrained and it has been proven to sell. The only successful Joker that would fit the age gap, and that I'm personally wiiling to accept in live action would be Mark Hamill. RIP Kevin Conroy.
Personally, I think the one thing that kills this is that Riddler is kind of already mixed with Hush in this movie. From the costume, to the motive, to the even more conspiratorial plotting he does. I personally hope it’s just a cameo.
Agreed. I think thyer pulling lots of inspiration from the wide oeuvre of batman-ology. A little from here, a little from there. Let's remix samples from the hits into something new.
Now that you say that, it makes sense to use parts of Hush’s backstory and transplant a more recognizable villain onto it. My issue with the idea the Hush will be a major player in the future is that no one knows who he is aside from serious fans. (Plus the riddler would sell more toys and we all know that’s a bigger factor than people think)
@@batgirl_brunette3873 This film series is for serious fans, most casual batman fans didn't like the film. Considering the fact that they plan on doing 3-5 films, I think that they're going to introduce hush at some point, there are just too many references to him to have him not show up at some point. I think he will show up in the 3rd film and have him be a threat from there on.
I’m so tired of the joker. He wasn’t really my favorite of the bunch. The others deserve their chance to shine, they’re also just more interesting imo. I was so happy to see a movie with The Riddler as the main villain, it felt fresh.
i kind of agree? I mean i LOVE joker but it’d be cool to see other villains get their spotlight- (i wanna learn more about Scarecrow and some other villains honestly)
Throughout the movie I kept thinking they were going to add the twist that Riddler is actually Hush. In his mask he looks more like Hush than the typical Riddler, and DC has already made Hush and Riddler the same in the animated Hush film. If anything I think that's an easier pivot than changing the Joker into Hush.
i actually think 'The Riddler" was Mad Hatter and the inmate at the end was the real Riddler, or hopefully The Creeper (he was a journalist after all, and this movie clearly states that one is missing)... the use of sound, Ave Maria as a hypnotic trigger and taping the heads, plays on the whole hat fetish Tetch has. But if Dano really was Riddler, then my money is on the inmate being the Hatter. Hatter's whole thing is mind control, and in Alice's Advs in Wonderland, which shaped Tetch's psychosis it wouldn't be out of character for Hatter to view Batman as Alice, and send Alice a slew of riddles.When is a Batman like a writing desk. ;)
I like the interactions with Editor Dan. Having that outside commentary, that voice of 'logic' opposing Matt's theories and speculation makes them even more enjoyable as they bounce things off of each other.
I think you missed the point from the start that Batman isn't a hero in this, he was never trying to be a hero. This is why it's so appealing, he's exactly like everyone else angry at the system. It's the ending where he realizes there can be many ways to make the city better. And Batman DID realize at the end that he needs to develop his Bruce Wayne personality. You saw Alfred telling him to do so earlier, you saw mirror situations where they treat Batman horribly but Bruce like royalty, and the ending where he realizes there are different ways to deal with crime and corruption in Gotham. They wouldn't go out of their way to include all of that if they weren't foreshadowing a change in his methods for the next movie. The movie does answer all of these, I think you need a rewatch.
Yeah it's a shite movie. Stop trying to act smarter than you really are because you're desperately grasping at straws by finding hidden meanings in a mid tier snoozefest of a film.
I have more faith in this than Star Wars, but we all saw in the latest trilogy that set ups and foreshadowing in blockbuster billion dollar movies aren't necessarily set in stone.
@@voodoodolll Well I hope youre right because I'm dreading having to sit through another joker. The heath ledger one was fine but I think we have all had enough of him and should be open to different villains.
Also based on what Matt Reeves said, it didn’t sound like the Joker is going to be the next villian, but rather someone that’ll be built up to in the future, and I like that. I could definitely see Hush or my pick: Mr. Freeze.
Mr Freeze is amazing but I doubt they'd stretch him to carry a movie. He'd likely be a secondary Villian alongside Penguin in the second one. Be interesting who the big bad is. Maybe it'll be a take on the The war of jokes and Riddles from the comics (Joker and Riddler use Villians to fight against each other).
See I don’t think Mr. Freeze would play well in the grounded Gotham they’ve set up. If they did use him then he’d have to be closer in style to Captain Cold.
Dude it’s crazy how accurate u were with ur Batman predictions over a year ago! U nailed everything except the specifics, but u nailed the theme of the movie amazingly well
There are so many Batman villains that haven't had there chance to shine outside of the comics, it would be nice to have some more be in the movies. P.S. I really think they should continue the Dark Knight trilogy but I know they won't :(
I personally love the riddler as a character but he is either the guy who does riddle one-liners or is Mr.Puzzles(example: riddler in Arkham) but I personally think he goes best when the audience can solve one overall riddle that requires the answer to several other riddles and because of that I feel he is the easiest batman character to mess up which is why he needs a smart writer to properly utilize what he brings to the table against batman
In the animated version of Hush he IS The Riddler taking his game up to 11 after feeling like the bottom tier of Batman's rogues gallery, it honestly worked better than random new character introduced for that specific story. I could see them repeating that with a sequel to the new movie where Riddler escapes and changes up his game and takes on the persona of Hush to get revenge on The Batman
I hope Batman 2 will took inspiration in the animated movie batman hush. Where riddler became Hush that is always 11 steps ahead of batman and is super smart because of the Lazarus pit.
I am in total agreement with you MatPat, I love the Joker but there’s too much of him and it was hush for the next movie I would be super excited and I do wish we see more of Batman’s rogues gallery in the future
joker, joker, joker; always the joker. it's getting a bit old. pattinsons 2nd batman shouldn't already deal with the joker. hush could be a refreshing change
@Embreis Matt Reeves has already said that just because the joker was teased it doesn’t mean he gonna be in the sequel,l. he was only in the film for world building and that a villain for the sequel hasn’t been decided let, but he did say that he is thinking as making Mr Freeze the next villain or one of them.
I think that Robert Pattinson's portrayal of batman is fantastic, it's a huge torch to carry, and he carried it very well, I like how he was so different from someone like christian bale, choosing more of a reclusive rich boy than a suave billionaire philanthropist
i agrée! i enjoyed the movie, although it felt a bit comical at times because the actor was robert pattinson, and with his personality it just- you can tell there are certain scenes he would have hated that added to the novelty. although, the direction of his character is more to do with the writers than him. so if you want to praise anyone, praise them
His performance shows how crazy and ill-adjusted he is. Family wealth is shadow of what it was and whole city is a mess. Last of Cobblepot-family is two-bit gangster and he ain't much better.
I wonder if riddler in the next film turns into hush himself. After realizing he needs to seek revenge on Batman, he realized his riddler persona wasn’t going to be enough to take him down. And after Joker making Riddler go more mentally insane then he already is, riddler slowly comes to the conclusion that he has to break out of Arkham, and become something more physically powerful to defeat The Batman. Then Riddler figures out who Batman is, uses that to his advantage, and becomes Hush
6:07 The director of the movie says that this character isn't yet who we know him as. Perhaps in this story it is originally hush, who batman has had an experience with, turning into the joker. It would give him a reason to wear heavy makeup, to cover his scars from his surgeries on himself, and those surgeries could be the reason for joker's smile.
Or it could be that his red Hood first which does make sense in other media like in the Arkham games joker's backstory there is he used to be the original Red Hood before he became the joker so that could also make sense.
To be perfectly honest I’m just glad we got a genuinely good performance for the Riddler. Closest we got was TV Gotham. But the performance in The Batman was simply incredible, I’m so glad we got to see a dark Interpretation of the character.
I think that hush and the court of owls would work best moving forward into a trilogy in this new Batman universe. I would really enjoy a second trilogy with the penguin maybe mr freeze ( if they do mr freeze he has to be played by Giancarlo Esposito) I think an interesting thing they could do with joker would be to have him as the first villain Batman took down so they already have a connection but he isn’t the joker yet. But as martial law was introduced to Gotham and the city being in chaos, I think joker taking control of Arkham asylum (which I think is on an island in this universe, like Alcatraz) would be very interesting, so here’s what I think a good Batman universe could look like. The Batman - this movie that already came out. The Batman 2 - A movie where Hush is the main villain, Bruce Wayne is trying to save the reputation of his family while using his wealth to help the city as much as he can. But at the same time he is trying to balance being Batman and fighting hush. There would be a lot of hints at the court of owls, maybe a scene where penguin is visited by the court of owls that want to use him as a figure head to hide behind and control the cities crime whilst staying hidden. The Series - I thing that this could work as either a very important to watch show like wanda vision is to doctor strange 2, or an optional series going through commissioner Gordon before he met batman, maybe even showing the big drug bust that they talked about in the movie. I’d rather see a show where joker takes over Arkham asylum while all the attention is on the flooded city, and turns it into a haunted house type of horror show that takes batman outside of what he’s used to. I read of tracking down the villains, in Arkham he would be chased and it would make the joker seem like an actual horror character and could be really interesting to watch. Maybe I’m the second film they introduce robin at the end and make batman have to save him. Only to fail and for robin to be assumed dead. But then In the second trilogy one of the films would be the under the red hood storyline from the comics. It would end with the joker escaping to the city or something like that. Or the could just make it a prequel series that takes place before the events of the movies. The Batman 3 - Now this would be batman trying to find Joker after his escape from Arkham , only to have to put that to the side after realizing the court of owls exist. I won’t get into that because it kinda rights itself, but I would want it to end framing Gotham as not perfect but without large scale corruption and Batman’s only goal from this point on is to catch Joker after what he did to robin or something. Then In a second trilogy, The Batman 4 - The story starts with cat woman returning if she hasn’t already, and Batman and her having a reunion of sorts. Then batman tells her what happened in Gotham and she is surprised to hear about robin. Then red hood starts doing stuff and it’s basically just the underneath the red hood storyline. At the end robin either dies, goes away like cat woman did in the end of The Batman 1, or turns good again. The Batman 5 - If robin survives, there’s a three musketeers trope with Batman, cat woman and robin trying to find joker or just trying to rid the city of crime and curry potion together. The movie would start with a scene of them chasing down someone on there motorcycles. Maybe it’s killer croc escaping custody and they take him down at the start of the film. The rest of the film could be penguin causing trouble, 2 face, mr freeze, I’d love to see the scarecrow, or game or something but basically a film of the three of them taking down a villain together. The Batman 6 - The last film would be the joker finally showing up and them taking him down. Maybe he captures cat woman and robin and makes him choose who he saves and who falls into to their death. Maybe he tries to turn robin into the next joker. There’s a lot they could do, but I would want it to end with joker and Batman fighting in the rain. There is so much more I want from this new Batman but this comment is way to long and I don’t think anyone’s gonna read the whole thing anyway but yea
You're optimistic to think we'll get 2 whole trilogies, neither Reeves or Pattinson would commit to that. But I like your pitch for the first trilogy, seeing The Court of Owls on the big screen would be a dream come true
@@Mopark25 yea very optimistic. I do think hush and the court of owls are a no brainer moving forward with this style of Batman that’s more of an amateur detective that makes mistakes and has a lot to learn. Also I am now realizing that there already is a show called Gotham that is basically what I said as the alternative tv show so yea.
I was thinking maybe hush could be an escaped talon of some kind as well. Talons are kids that were taken by the court of owls to train into murder ninjas basically
It makes perfect sense to have hush in the next movie. However that doesn't exclude the Joker. Matt reewes has clearly shown that he can balance several villains in a movie
In the movie when he tries to get the penguins nightclub, did anyone notice how when he entered as Batman it evolves into a big messy brawl. When he enters as Bruce buys his way in, gets the information secretly and gets out.
This could be a set up for a trilogy with Hush being the ultimate villain behind it all. Matt said it himself, Hush is all about manipulation and has done so to almost every major Batman villain. It wouldn't even be a stretch to find out he planted the renewal stuff with Riddler to set him on the path we see in the first film.
Irish wasn’t the master manipulator people might think he was, he needed riddler to set everything up and get the villains to listen to him as the riddler was the real mastermind and not hush
I really like the twist that Batman inspired his villains. He realizes that his whole vengeance message is inspiring the wrong people and at the end he turns to inspire hope. A good character arc and makes me more excited for future sequels
Yeah same
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@@ХейтерТрендов the film theorist clone ua-cam.com/video/2bvIvnlewYA/v-deo.html
Hush is an extremely good villain for Reeves' Batman. Especially considering we got some really good Jokers already in a short span of time. Hoping he'll explore some court of owl stuff too.
MatPat deceives своих же subscribers:..
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@Emanuelgamer 1313 the madman he was, loved it.
Does anyone know if The Riddler still plays CSGO on his anomoly channel. " Papa " Yah
Hush is a terrible Batman villain. Very badly written and a terrible motivation
I think the Mad Hatter could be a cool villain in the Reeves universe. He could hypnotize people into committing murder or crimes or whatever! And when they get caught and snap out of it they do not remember anything making it almost impossible to question them. Could be pretty fun for a Noir mystery setting.
What I like about this is that Bruce Wayne only by appearance alone is known to Gotham. Not by his actions which was very evident with the conversation with the future mayor. So if Hush does roll up he can however he wants as Bruce Wayne and no one will think twice.
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ashnflash?!
this could lead well into batman having to develop his “Bruce Wayne Persona”, as the lack of developing that aspect of him allows hush to pass as bruce in front of the public
I know you might not see this, but when you next get the chance, I would love to see you try to make some kind of Mortal Kombat moc. It would be awesome.
ASH!!!!!! so cool to see you
I wanna see Scarecrow in this franchise, he seems to fit the aesthetic of this series quite well.
clayface too
oooooh yeah
Personally I disagree on Scarecrow. I’d rather see villains we haven’t had a good adaptation of, like Mr Freeze, or someone we haven’t seen at all, like Hush or Hugo Strange
@@waverider6302 scarecrow hasn’t had a good adaptation either. The Nolan take was trash
Make him a hallucinogen dealer that gets a faceful of his own stuff and goes nuts. That would be the realistic take I think Reeves is looking for.
Just saw the deleted scene with the joker, and unfortunately it is confirmed to be him. However I do like the direction they are taking with him and it feels like he’s pulling the strings and not dragged in like he’ll be the final villain of the trilogy
I only just saw the movie itself today, and the main thing that strikes me about this video, I'd think they'd not want to do what MP is hoping here if for no other reason it sounds simply too close to what this first movie was. A secret young figure who was wronged earlier in life in connection to the Wayne family, gradually wreaks havoc in the present day in a conspiratorial manner... is that not pretty much the movie we just saw??
It only confirms that the person in the deleted scene is the Joker. Also, the laugh of the person at the end of the movie is not the same as the laugh of the Joker in the deleted scene.
Unfortunately????????? What you mean ????
@@johndon2536 people are done with seeing Joker. He's overused now in these movies and I think people would much rather see other Batman characters portrayed in this series of movies rather than going back to yet another Joker
@@johndon2536 Joker is definitely overused and I love Hush. Just like Matpat said Hush storyline fits perfectly with the story and we haven't seen him on the big screen yet.
I felt like this Riddler’s character design was inspired by Hush with the costume, the history, and darker elements like the psychotic planning and saw traps he used on his victims. So I don’t think Hush will be introduced into this movie universe because he already exists through the Riddler
All the villains are going to be like that in this universe though, they are all pretty much gonna be morbid serial killers even if they have different motivations
Big Inspired by Zodiak Killer
That's what I was thinking the whole time watching the movie. I feel like with this theory here though it could work that the Riddler could pull the strings from the background and they could use the Penguin and Hush as the main part of what we see in the next film. Maybe they could introduce a lesser known villain as well to make the story grander and misdirect us constantly which would be a great thrill ride.
Redhood and Gang....then becomes joker and clown gang...prequil sceens.
@@CharlieFilms. No. That's the uninspired cash-grab by WB. "psychopathic disturbing killers sells tickets! make more!!"
Love how the Riddler was actually menacing in this version like he should be. He was inspired by the Zodiac Killer and it shows
Jesus Christ loves you bros
After watching this video you will never love MatPat...:ж
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@@ХейтерТрендов I don't know Russian
Yeah. I mostly know Riddler from the really old Batman (where they said POW and stuff) and in that one he was just a weirdo that wire a green suit. I always hated that version because all his plans would work if he didn't leave clues.
Idk man i miss the green spandex, at least they kept the “I’ve placed bombs around the city” part
i like the twist that this theory was already proven false DURING THE THEORY ITSELF so this is just them exploring a cool possibility more than trying to guess future events like usual. it is functionally the same as any other theory video but this one feels more fun because of the framing, i feel
Matpat is always 50/50 sometimes because of plot holes he looks into and sometimes because creators see his predictions and scrap their ideas so they can prove him wrong.
After watching this, I think MatPat is planning out business decisions on how to make the future movies even better for DC comics with his videos.
At this point, DC can use all the help they could get tbh. The Batman is a step in the right direction though
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I fully believe that Reeves knows what he's doing with this. He subtly drops the joker in the first movie to keep diehard joker fans coming to see the movie just to look for future Easter eggs. However, he sets up enough lore that he can go so many ways with the villain of the next movie. The joker is going to be saved for last. Even if there's hints along the way to track the joker's rise.
The Joker could be like the BCU’s (Batman Cinematic Universe) Thanos. Maybe he assembles a team of every villain that winds up in Arkham Astylum, Sinister 6 style.
@@thephony1651 I could definitely see that being possible
He should just be in the Arkham show
A new salad fingers dropped lol
The leaked scene dropped and it seemed like the joker is batman's way into the serial killers way of thinking
This is like the first time the Riddler has not been treated as a joke in a Batman movie, and it works perfectly.
If they make Eddie similar to the one from Gotham, I'll be more than pleased
@@Dragon_Moth the one in gotham was amazing!
I also loved how they made a sly Riddler trophy reference too at the crime scene of the Mayor.
Not really.
even tho he's a redditor
I love the idea of Bruce realizing there's a more meaningful and peaceful way he can save Gotham by using his family's money to build better schools, affordable housing, free hospitals, ect which will create more job opportunities, get people off the streets, and reduce crime.
He does that in the comics and crime Increased lmao
😒
@@ERGO19lol how? Is the comic saying doing stuff like that is useless?
Why doesn't america have free helfcere
Lmao all of those things you mention have been done even in real life and it does not work like that
Conclusion: humans are dumb that don’t care and will never use such opportunities
This is a cruel world with cruel people, thats why there are police…. and BATMAN!
Just as a side on Matt Reeves talking about the deleted Joker scene, the way he describes it almost sounds a lot like an allusion to Silence of the Lambs. That might be the way to bring back Joker; not as the main villain, but a supporting character in the same vein as Hannibal Lector.
I thought the same thing
I see Calender Man fitting that role more perfectly. Just like in Long Halloween.
@@carlosmartinezjr3501 For sure, I don’t disagree with you. Only thing is, with the way the Reeves trilogy is setting itself up and the fact that they gotta do something fresh with the Joker, a Hannibal Lector homage is one of the few ways they can go.
God that would be amazing
He said it was inspired by Red Dragon and Man Hunter. So yes I hope his Joker gets a Hannibal Lecter Role to Batmans Will Graham
Although, Joker is my favorite Batman villain, I was actually somewhat disappointed that they're bringing him in so quick and was hoping they would give some other characters a moment on the big screen. Still, with sequels having not been greenlit initially, I guess it could be a dangling carrot for the studio and another villain may get the focus next while Riddler & the Joker are still locked up to eventually escape down the road.
I really hope court of the owls become the next villains for the sequel
@@geraldcleveland6207 The three I hope for are Court of Owls, Mr Freeze or the Phantasm.
@@parazap3573 I wonder how the phantasm will be implemented in the films, due to many co-relations with Bruce Wayne or will they retcon it?
@Gerald Cleveland Well, it'd be cool if they followed the whole idea that Bruce proposed to her, and she left him. Iy would add to his sadness but I would want to see more of Bruce's fake public persona. Casting wise, I feel like Emma Stone would be a pretty good Phantasm.
Matt Reeves said that it's not meant to be a sequel tease but rather a way to wrap up the theme of how "Gotham's story never ends" and a way to make his version of Gotham feel lived in.
I saw the deleted Joker scene and I'm loving him so far. However, I wish they would simply hint at him until the 3rd movie and have him tie it all up.
I'd like if he had a sort of hannibal lector role across the three films, have batman occasionally check in on him about cases maybe once or twice in the sequel
I hope he is like scarecrow in the dark knight trilogy, he appears in every movie but is never the main bad guy
I think it would be cool to have him like in the background of the next couple movies hinting at the last movie of the trilogy when him and Batman go at it
@@pattyflipper I just want a movie of batman on Arkham Asylum, where the villan be joker.
Just like in the game
The trilogy should end with joker and maybe upto that time batman will have a robin maybe even jason who knows 💀
Now that I know a sequel is coming, I've had an idea in my head for a while. If they do make more than the one sequel, I think they should save the Joker until the very last movie in this timeline. Not only would it make this timeline more unique from the other ones, but it might even actually make sense. Who better be The Batman's final face-off with than the Bat's greatest enemy. What do you guys think of this idea?
I like the idea of leaving the joker till the end, but I think it would be good if they somehow made a film that incorporated the 3 jokers, the criminal, the comedian and the clown
I think that would be a good way to put the one true joker into the movies
The Bat's greatest enemy was knee arthritis.
@@whatif6660 I still got hope to see Joaquin Phoenix's Joker in this universe, he would be the comedian one of course
@@crazypopcorn7801 he’s not going to be in this universe, the director of Joker mentioned it was its own universe and it had nothing to do with the upcoming batman movie
they should put the joker in the second to last movie and the final one is all the villains he has working together to stop batman
I legit whispered to my partner in the theater when they said the reporter's name was Eliot, "Oh my God, are they setting up Hush?"
I want Hush so bad. He's one of my favorite villains. I own the Hush comics, they're freaking amazing. And Hush in Arkham City was such a disturbing side mission. Kevin Conroy's voice acting of Hush sent literal chills down my spine the first time I played it.
I seriously hope Matt Reeves is deliberately misleading everyone. That maybe the guy in the cell is the Joker, but it's sort of a Hannibal Lector/Buffalo Bill thing. That Joker isn't the main antagonist of the next film, but he has info about Hush and Batman has to go to Arkham to interrogate him. Something.
I just want Hush!
Hush was in a Batman animated movie, and you know what they say about DC Batman movies.
having the next batman use a silence of the lambs like framework would be cool considering this one had riddler framed off a mix of zodiac and the se7en film
Jush would be perfect for the third movie. Bruce needs to be developed more and the public needs to trust Batman more. So this is why I think the Court of owls would make the perfect sequel, while Hush is reserved for the last. If they bring C of 🦉 they can't wrap it up in one movie so having it in the second also makes the most sense.
this !! so much this !!!
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Despite the Joker identity being confirmed I don't think he is necessarily the next main villain. There is also going to be an Arkham Asylum spinoff series on HBOmax that he may factor into. The movie did in fact lay down good groundwork for Hush to be in a later film. Hush working with the Court of Owls would make for an amazing movie, and I think it's relatively plausible, even likely.
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yes thats what i was saying , this casting could be like thanos's in first avenger , and he didnt show up until 4 movies so idk why mat is freaking out
I know the GCPD show was canceled? So is the arkham one aswell?
@@eee-wc2zo No the GCPD one was scrapped in favor of the Arkham one.
@@eee-wc2zo Basically the GCPD show turned into the Arkham Asylum show
According to some interviews Reeves and Pattinson are actually interested in doing Hush along with some other villains (Court of Owls, Calendar Man and Mr Freeze) so even if the man in Arkham isn't Hush, there's a good chance he'll be introduced in some other way.
Also worth noting that Reeves has also stated that he's not even sure he wants to do Joker in the movies, so there's that too.
Yes! The possibilities for the next villain are still open as Matt Reeves has said that he wanted this batman universe to get the feeling like it is full of villains. Joker could appear in a sequal but maybe more as a side character that fills in the clues for batman in Arkham
yes thats what i was saying , this casting could be like thanos's in first avenger , and he didnt show up until 4 movies so idk why mat is freaking out
@@asdfag557 Gosh I hope this doesn't drag out for 4+ movies like the Marvel Universe. We don't need that commercial franchise crap
I mean, Hush is awesome, but they're putting Callendar Man into a movie? I'm excited to see that. He's one of my favorite really obscure Batman villains.
@@pelloo3627 "commercial franchise crap"..... you realize this is a batman movie right?
Honestly, I'd love to see other Batman villains get the spotlight in future films. I mean, how crazy would it be to see a live-action Clayface? Or, heck, Poison Ivy or Bane?
We have seen bane tho
@@shrok4202 not since the dark knight rises
We've seen poison ivy
Poison Ivy was in Gotham and Bane was in Dark Knight Rises. But I agree with your sentiment, other Batman villains deserve the spotlight, other than just the Joker.
I agree about the Joker, pretty joker-ed out. Hush, Court of Owls, Professor Pyg, Zsasz or even a redefined Calendar Man would be great for this universe
if i see calendar man in a batman live action movie, i dont know, i might just have to eat 2 flinstones vita-gummies
@@gustavspincow1262 just like the hollow knight
@@gustavspincow1262 calender man would be glorious
Court of Owls could have definitely fit into the movie, if not be the focus of the next one. Such a fucking great theme
I want to see Two Face
As an accountant, I was so happy when I heard them say Riddler was originally a forensic accountant. If anyone can uncover corruption, it's someone who's looking for fraud.
While I love the Joker as a villain, I kinda hope they keep having him in a Hannibal Lecter-like consulting position for Batman, like how he was in the deleted scene, rather than being a proactive villain as he’s normally written in past Batman renditions. That way, audiences that want to see the Joker can be satisfied, while also having other villains getting their own time in the spotlight.
It’d have to depend on if future sequels start following a version of The Long Halloween storyline though (just as this movie follows variations of Year One), since that could mean bringing in Calendar Man to fill that role instead (unless Joker replaces Calendar Man for that role, or Calendar Man and Joker both share the role to play off one another)…
Honestly they should just forget about joker. I think they should use the court of owls. They could further explore the corruption of Gotham and Bruce’s legacy. maybe they begin to hunt down Batman because of what he stands for, the courts main goal is to shape Gotham in a way that benefits their view. Also since they are almost as old as Gotham we could get some interesting lore on how Gotham became so bad. Maybe it could relate to Thomas wants too, yk with the sins of the father. It felt like a cope out when they just say that Thomas Wayne wasn’t actually a bad person, he was perfectly good and noble.
@@enoo9003 nah bruh sorry, you can’t just forget the joker. if there’s anything new Batman, everyone wants to see the joker.
I honestly like when the Joker is used like that.
How we get a conspirasy theory
I think we should have a new Heart Of Ice at some point Victor Freeze is such a good character and the Arnold version did him so dirty.
I hope that they do a combination of these 2 things: They're obviously going to make the joker into a character going forward, but I hope they make him a minor villain and introduce Hush or another villain too.
IT SHOULD BE HUSH! Here's another reason: I personally find attempts to give Joker a background just...odd. It misses the point of the character. To me, Joker represents pure evil, and there are countless times Joker says Batman "completes him". It's fun to see the dynamic of other villains such as Riddler, Hush, Mr. Freeze, etc., because Batman truly wants to help them. He wants to reform them. He wants to see them change. Joker is supposed to be a reminder that not everything has a tragic backstory or needs to. The Joker is not supposed to make sense or be someone you can relate to. Batman exists because evil exists.
The joker is also an unfortunate reminder that not everyone can be helped. No matter how many times he gets locked up in Arkham he never ever changes. The joker also seems to represent the enormous downside to Batman's whole "no killing" rule since keeping an eternal madman like that alive just means more people are gonna be hurt or killed down the line. That's something that Jason Todd even mentions in multiple stories, something along the lines of "if you had just killed the joker, he would've never killed me". He's the perfect villain that directly highlights all of Batman's flaws and I love that he's getting the attention he deserves, but I do agree it's a bit too much right now. Especially when a lot of these movies completely miss the point of the Joker, and I would definitely love to see more other Batman villains get the spotlight.
Hush is fantastic and I would absolutely love to see him in the sequel but honestly I would also love to see Two Face or Jason Todd just as much. They're some of my other favorite Batman villains, especially Jason. He's always been my favorite of the robins and I love how he directly contrasts Bruce in his methods despite both wanting more or less the same thing. I know he got his own entire animated movie years ago but I'd still love to see him on the big screen in live action. I feel these new directors could really do him justice if they understand the source material.
Also, I'm so tired to see another Joker again. Joaquin Phoenix is the last Joker that I think it's enough. Give another Batman villains another chance like Hush, Mr Freeze, Poison Ivy, and many more. Especially for Mr Freeze and Poison Ivy who hasn't been redeemed since Batman and Robin movie.
@@SurotaOnishi while i think your right in that the jokers lack of a backstory backs up his character of senseless violence and meaningless chaos, i think it can work both ways. when joker doesn't have a backstory, just being the agent of chaos he is is a great opposite to batman with a lot of the reasons you pointed out, but he also pulls this off when using the right backstory. such as the killing joke , in one day the joker experienced a barrage of mental trauma just as Bruce did on the night his parents died both having similar origins, but while Bruce sees this and becomes the batman so no one ever feels what he did, the joker accepts that the world is a cruel and meaningless place and mirrors it in his "world burning" chaotic mentality.
I agree with you 100%. I haaaaate when people try to give joker a backstory, as you said, he's supposed to just be pure evil, and the mysteries of his past help with that. I did love Joaquin's joker, but that was made specifically with the idea of "what would joker be like in the real world? How could someone become him in the real world?" which was really awesome to explore. But the canon Joker is a John Doe. He's no one and that makes him incredibly dehumanized and scaryyyy.
I loved how Heath Ledger's Joker literally told a different story about how he got his scars every time he talked about them in the movie. He's a lying, manipulative psychopath, and that's why he's so creepy and entertaining. He's literally just playing games with everyone.
@@kettlepetal3138 don't forget that they also literally couldn't identify him either. When they arrested the joker in that movie they tried to fingerprint him and collect dental records but literally nothing showed up. He was literally no one, entirely off the grid and that was really cool and unsettling to think about
This riddler really felt like a genuine Riddler he gave good but hard clues, he was elusive and he had a following this was definitely the best Riddler and the best and most realistic batman movie
"good but hard clues" to riddles that Batman solves within 5 seconds maybe longer. Also the riddles just lead to exposition and require little too no agency from Batman
@@VonJay Riddles that batman failed to actually understand in his bid to rush it. Same with the murder weapon, he thought it was of no use, but only when he realized it was a tool for carpets then and then he saw it. The Riddler even thought he knew and let the bombs be so they could both watch it, but he was mistaken, Batman just didnt knew.
except he had very much bad rhymes... Riddles and rhymes what makes his intelligence stand out but nope
@@MrBloodytype they were post cards. I think his intelligence is more on flooding cities and killing people
I think it is likely that this is heading into trilogy planning territory, with maybe Hush as the main villain of the second movie, and ending the trilogy with the Joker. I also think it is likely that the Joker could be kept in the background to coordinate the actions of other villains. I can see a scene where Joker's lair is Arkham, and he engineers the downfall of other villains specifically so they can end up in Arkham where they can fall under his sway.
I would also be very interested in seeing grounded gritty Matt Reeves versions of Clayface, Poison Ivy, and Killer Croc.
I agree and I’d also love to see a more grounded Mr Freeze. That backstory is chilling(pun intended) with him doing everything he can to save his dying wife.
I personally really want to see a scarecrow in a movie. I think the whole fear aspect of him would fit Arkham really well, also hes my fav batman villain
I think the third movie is going to be Court of Owls with Joker appearing as an assassin. If they introduce Robin they could even have him killed.
Solomon Grundy, Mr. Freeze & Man Bat also
@@noahfitness3974 All of those would be amazing. Grundy and Man-Bat would be super great to finally see on the big screen!
I really like the Riddler because whenever Batman is faced against him, he has to use his detective skills to defeat him, which is an aspect of his character that the films seldom explore.
I feel like hush would be a good direction for the series. them using more weak but intelligent villains would be really cool
MatPat ᴇxᴘᴏsᴇᴅ...ua-cam.com/video/cAQxPSwM4h0/v-deo.html
But riddler in this is mixed with hush. I think that two face or deathstroke or maybe blackmask would work better than a villain who's look was adapted to riddler
yes as if Bane isn't one of the strongest and smartest.
@@SuperToadCrewNo ooh yeah bane and batman us3s the drug at the end to save cat woman doesn't he that could have been venom it was green
I freaking loved Riddler in this movie. Making him Jigsaw was such a cool idea and the opening scene was absolutely terrifying. I hope he comes back.
Yes I agree!
yes
Paul Dano IS SO FUCKING GOOD
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Yes fr
Got to say Hush being able to outsmart Joker and manipulate him is really impressive considering Joker can manipulate anyone including the audience
It was more like Joker just went along with the plan because he felt like it.
MatPat deceives своих же subscribers:..
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Joker just went along with the plan lmao
If he can't be controlled by geniuses like Strange or Luthor, what makes you think he'll be manipulated by some rando surgeon and The Riddler of all people
There were some parts of the trailer were I thought it was Hush, not Riddler. And Joker saying,"Everyone loves a comeback story", I think he was referring to Riddler making a comeback. So I think Riddler will return as Hush. I think he'll get inspiration for his mask, from how he tapped his victims. But I don't think he'll return in the second movie, Hush is too interesting of a villain, to show up in the sequel. And it sounds like Matt Reeves is sticking with Joker being the antagonist for the sequel.
I might be the only one to think this but I'd love to see an entire movie where Batman faces off against Batzarro with the Ventriloquist pulling the strings.
MatPat deceives своих же subscribers:..
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Y E S
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•
Sounds really cool!
I think the next villain should be Scarecrow. If they play their cards right here, The Scarecrow could be the most terrifying Batman live-action villain again. (Not that he was before….. looking at you Gotham TV show) He could be a man broken by fear, broken by The Batman. A man, molded with the fear, and anger of a true villain. He could be a simple man, Johnathan Crane, a psychiatrist at Arkham. He would speak to the inmates, have a nice life but then he is robbed. And the Batman, is too preoccupied with something else, and is too late to help poor, poor Johnathan. He now has a certain hatred, and he needs to take it out on something. He will use the one thing that people can never control. Their fear.
Gotham is a Cruel Place to live in.
I would love for Scarecrow to appear. He'd fit so well into this Batman's world
Especially since Batman had a line in the movie where he said that he thought he mastered fear, but he learned he still feared losing the people he cared about.
Scarecrow would be super interesting :D
Better than another rendition of Joker again :I
@@LordBloodySoul yeah, they’ve only done what, like 2 live action iterations of him?
"thinks he's so smart" Starting to understand why you love this character MatPat
No replies? L.
Jesus Christ loves you bros
Bought account 🤡🤡
369 likes nicee
roasted
10:05 I thought the line “everyone loves a comeback story” was referring to the riddler coming back
I would like Hush to be the next villain rather than the Joker for some of the reasons you point out, but another villain I think would work as well is Victor Fries, a.k.a. Mr. Freeze, one, he could work as a reflection of Bruce when dealing with the loss, or are at risk of losing, a loved one(s). Both became scarred and vengeful, Bruce losing his parents, vowing to fight all crime, and Fries at risk of losing his wife, vowing to get back at Boyles. Two, it fits with showing Bruce becoming a better detective, learning about Freezes past and learning about the corrupted man Ferris Boyles. And lastly, it would be nice to see Freeze, since there hasn't been a live action adaptation since Arnold Schwarzenegger's role as the man with a frozen heart.
It also allow for crazy gadgets to be in here so they can use Bane and poison ivy without it being to fair removed. Also Superman
i've read an interview of matt reeves. he said that mr freeze's story is interesting to do, because like you said, he's got powerful story. the problem is according to matt, is how to bring grounded version of mr freeze. the director still looking into it
Mr. Freeze is terrible lead villian is he doesnt have direct conflict with batman, hes commiting crimes to save his wife, mr. freeze is not a obstacle for batman - batman is obstacle for mr. freeze. For example Joker is destroying batmans legacy and hush destroying bruce as a person. Even in Nolan trilogy same problem with Bane - no personal conflict, thats why demon head daughter is so important to glue up the story
Mr. Freeze is absolutely my favourite Batman villain. He's wonderful. I'd love to see that.
@@freezerain Yo Batman being an obstacle for Mr. Freeze might actually be a good plotline
The joker isn't meant to be a insight to the sequel. It's like a cool interaction, a crossover of villains. In comics crossovers happen so much its not treated as a big role. Also I think it makes sense they are talking in Arkham because you don't see that in movies often. I would love to see a Arkham break out movie. Also Matt Reeves made it clear they don't want to do joker.
And now that the GCPD show is going to be an Arkham show, that's probably where we'll be getting most of our Joker content for a while
I agree with Mat. As much as I love the Joker, I was excited for this movie because they finally used a villain not seen much in the cinematic universe. And now... they're just going back to Joker. And he also made a good point, since they focused more on the detective and less on crime-fighting-vigilante Joker wouldn't really hit the same.
100% my thoughts on this! I was so disappointed when it was implied that it's the Joker at the end. I was so excited to see other villains in action but no, Joker again...
He’s only been used as a full on villain in two Batman movies it’s not that much
From what I hear Matt has said he’s not really interested in doing Joker, and that he and Pattinson have been interested in doing Hush or Court of Owls
@@gatewaybois Yeah but it's not only movies. He's in everything. He's frequent in games, comics, merch, he even got his own movie. I just want someone else to have the spotlight for the next movie.
@@flameofmage1099 I mean he’s Batman’s greatest enemy but you have a point and I respect your opinion good day
3:28 I would pay to see a movie redone by the theorist editing team in this style, with matpat narrating anything they couldn't exactly emulate
Having Hush in live action seems WAY cooler to me than joker. I absolutely loved The Arkham Knight as an antagonist against Batman, almost like a fight to the death against himself, not someone madly obsessed with him and getting attention.
No one is cooler than the Joker.
That doesn’t mean I don’t like other villains too.
Matpat: Puts theory out...
Warner: releases deleted scene contradicting MatPat's theory...
Me: Well, at least we didn't have to wait two years to confirm another wrong theory...
But what if this is a marketing scheme to divert our expectations and floor us with a complete different premise?
Wouldn't be the first time they've done something like this :)
@@LordBloodySoul Yeah I definitely see it more like a diversion, or like Warner saying “here, enjoy some Joker’s footage since in the next movie we’re not focusing on him anymore”
Have the film theorists ever been right about anything though?
I think Paul Dano did an amazing job as the Riddler, as well as Robert Pattinson as Batman. I really loved their performances in this movie,
Yeah same
they did a great job, but i still feel like the cory michael smith riddler was the best.
@Tektify Couldn't agree more!
I’m the shadows,I’m vengeance I’m darkness I’m Batman 0:05
To be fair though, Reeves did say something along the lines of "the Joker won't be the bad guy in the next film. This is basically here to show trouble is always brewing in Gotham"
yup. He wants Mr. Freeze as the next villain
@@youtubeuser4943 That would be so cool. I watched BTAS Mr Freeze episode and I loved it
1st film: Falcone and Riddler as main villains. 2nd film: Penguin and Mr. Freeze as main villains. 3rd film: Joker and Court Of Owls
@@crazysilly2914 If that 3rd movie happens it will be a flop. Joker and the Court of Owls don’t mix.
@@hydrocritical2268 I disagree. It’s that contrast we NEED. Just like the contrast between Riddler and Falcone, with Falcone being corruption incarnate, and Riddler fighting corruption.
Same way with Joker and C.O.O.. Joker is chaos, C.O.O. is order. That contrast would be an amazing mechanic.
I love the joker and all but having another live adaptation of him in a span of a few years is probably a bit tiring to see. I like this theory cos it fits well with Pattinsons version of the bats. Would be nice to see other batman villains that havent been shown the spotlight that often. Would love to see Reeves play with the prospects of a live action court of owls. Now that would make a great story.
Give me Mad Hatter OR GIVE ME DEATH!
I wanna see Poison Ivy, Scarecrow and Court of Owls. Maybe all in the same film that would be dope.
Don’t think we’ll see poison ivy.
Poison Ivy seems too unrealistic for this universe
@@alexanderm.635 In what way?
@@rawfermews4186 I think this universe is more of a dark, realistic version of Batman. Poison Ivy is way too flashy and also not very realistic since she has powers
they'll probably save poison ivy for a Harley quin movie.
I for sure want to see a villain that hasn’t been used in a live action movie before like clayface or slade. There are so many good Batman villains and so much potential with this series.
@wuoi zuiu I said I want, not expect.
Technically, Slade was in a live action movie. Of course, it was only for a post credit scene.
@@deletiontrap in a terrible movie as well
is deathshot from gotham ??
@@redpalladin2468 Yes.
OK but I got to say this would be a fresh new face to Batman cinema. And personally the perfect path to take in my opinion. Hush's story fits well with where we are left off in the Batman like Mattpatt said. And it's a real problem under The Wayne family name. I'd love to see it. And I hope they take it in a different direction. Not saying I don't like the Joker, just feels like we've seen a lot of the Joker now. I'd love to see him in this universe just not so soon.
Honestly, I think they should do Dark Victory and Hush with Jason Todd being the main Robin. Joker should be saved for the third movie were he is revealed as someone whose been working with the Court of Owls and seeks to recruit all of Batman’s rogues. Like another commenter said, they could introduce a bunch more in a true Hush movie and further solidify that Riddler knows Batman is Bruce Wayne.
6:39 Missed opportunity for "Hush Matt, hush."
I like the dynamic of Mat just wanting to not waste his script, and Dan being a voice of reason and just kinda done with the craziness
Theres also the fact that movie teasers tend to lie to keep secrets.
The director could be saying it's the joker to avoid spoiling
I feel like a Killer Croc in this universe would be great too. He’s always been a darker character in any batman story and I’d really like to see him in this one. I genuinely urge you to imagine how it could be done. There’s so much possibility in this version of the character. A couple HMs would be Bane, Scarecrow, Mr Freeze.
I really want Mr Freeze
Hugo Strange
Well with what happened to Gotham by the end of the movie I think killer croc could be a great addition
A realistic killer croc would be interesting but i feel like this version of Batman will stay really grounded
Scarecrow is what I want the most. He is such an amazing and cool villian. He was incredibly underutilized in the Nolan trilogy. If the actor in those movies reprises his role that would be the cherry on top.
I haven’t watched a film theory in forever but I love the second opinion this other commentator is showing. Whenever I watch these videos, I’ll sometimes say to my self “well that’s a stretch” but now there seems to be someone voicing the skepticism for me! Great video and love what you have done with the channel
A decent part of mat's argument on why he's actually hush is the "Gotham loves a comeback strory" line. Couldn't the joker just be saying the line to the riddler on how he can 'come back' to the crime stage of Gotham.
At this point in the story all of what he thought he was doing has been destroyed and the last thing he relied on was the assassination attempt executed by his loyal followers. His whole operation by this point has been completely uprooted, cant the joker just be telling him that he can start over and remake what he once was.
thats literally 100% what it is. Which to me is basically them telling us Joker is going to use riddler somehow
thats exactly what i thought. Its a stretch. it is matpat tho.
Yeah, but this is Mat, he has to over-think everything. Although, he does make good points after that, so I'd argue it was only a tiny portion that argued with that.
I'd agree it was a bit of a stretch if he continued with the "it IS Hush" rather than "it should be," but he didn't. After the moment with the interview, he only mentioned the comeback line a couple of times, and the rest was him explaining how Hush could fit into this series perfectly. It's not PERFECT, but after the whole "Sans is Ness" bit... what do you expect? LMAO
Imo though, it was a pretty decent theory and I'm with him on this one. The Joker isn't a bad villain by any means, but it'd be nice to see more villains get their time in the spotlight for sure
The Batman was actually really good! Robert Patterson did really well compared to how people thought he was gonna actually do “Bruce why are you sparkling young master?”
I disagree with you but I respect your opinion
Robert Pattinson
@@jumbotron2633 wait how??😂 he literally nailed the role
No one who knows anything about film thought Pattinson was going to be anything other than good; he's a massively acclaimed, award-winning actor.
@@bonelessmidgets6542 sad
Can we just appreciate how Mat being able to bounce off of his editor's responses makes this far more dynamic? Great way of keeping the ball rolling and driving the video forward.
BRO.. Y'ALL ARE DOING ROBIN SO WRONG LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO *WHAT IS THIS* 1:55
Matt Reeves has said that just because The Joker appears at the end of the Batman dosen't mean he's in the sequel. Matt says that Joker's in the film for world-buliding and that the next villain hasn't been decided yet.
Seriously. Very annoying of Matpat to completely ignore this fact because he thinks he knows better than MATT REEVES
The Joker is completely overrated and we need a new villain but has appeared in a live-action Batman movie yet
This gives me hope. Thank you for clarifying.
@@return2monkey925 he could have just missed it no?
@@return2monkey925 in his defense, that's the running joke of the video lol
probably just don't want the research they did to go to waste so they just upload it anyway
Couldn’t it be possible that Hush is just behind everything? He may not have been explicitly shown but MatPat even said that Hush has manipulated the Joker as well as many others. This new Joker could be speaking on behalf of Hush and also be trying to enlist Riddler to the sort of “team.”
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Xow
Honestly, it seems like a great way to have a "get your cake and eat it too" situation. It could even be pull out into some bit of rage motivation (or whatever passes for motivation for the character) for their Joker. He's upset that he was manipulated rather than the manipulator.
@@scaper8 a Joker who can be manipulated is hardly the Joker. the Joker is someone who is either “invited” out of respect/fear or who crashes the party. im sure there are instances of the Joker being manipulated but after seeing the well received Arthur Fleck and the “i would never actually be a fixed figure in the crime world” that is Heath ledgers joker, i would like to see the Clown Prince of Crime either closer to his incarnation in the Animated Series(aka Leto-esque) or more resembling the comic take (Michael myers + chucky-esque vibe).. im so sick of the forced desire to see anything less. one thing The Batman movie does exceedingly right, is make Batman and more specifically the BATMOBILE feel terrifying in a legends/myth sense. if criminals see batman as this unstoppable presence lurking in the shadows, we should see the joker as this unpredictable force of nature that shows up just to corrupt everything Batman cares to protect, namely the people, the peace, the city etc. Batman hates criminals so joker becomes THE prince of crime. robbing banks, erasing or folding competitors that dont amuse him(penguin survives because he knows how to befriend joker), all of this should be in the jokers repetoire..not a sad anarchist clown with zero motivations
“ What does a liar do when there dead? They lie still “ I’m sorry I’m so obsessed with this movie
That line is genius
@@owyemen9367 it’s my favorite I love telling my friends that line
I'm going to save this on my Thumb Drive!
@@mainstreetsaint36 what is this good cop batshit cop
@@mainstreetsaint36 Oh, this guy is hilarious...
MatPat is right about story potential, and as an aspiring writer/director, I have potential ideas. My ideas are centered around the Batfamily, and all villains get major focus, but I also set up some underrated folks. One villain that I would love to see in Matt Reeves' universe is the First Victim. I heard this guy is an underrated villain whose secret identity is that of the first-ever criminal Bruce ever beat up as Batman. He even has an entire organization called the Victim Syndicate, which is made of (you guessed it) criminals that Batman has beaten up over the years and if I have to guess, it's not our beloved Rogues Gallary, but rather, the regular thugs and hoodlums that make the streets of Gotham. To me, it would be perfect, since it would expand upon the idea of Batman creating his enemies more while forcing him to confront the consequences of his actions. Sure, it would have to take years before we get there, but imagine an older Batman owning up to what he's done and what he failed to do when he had the chance even more so. I would also enjoy seeing Matt Reeves adapting another of our favorite baddies, Bruce's ex-girlfriend Andrea Beaumont aka our beloved hook-handed skull fighter the Phantasm.
I love The Joker. I think he is easily one of the greatest comic book villains ever made. But I do NOT want him in the next movie or even anytime soon….. There are so many villains that deserve some love and screen time.
I really want a good scarecrow movie and I think the best comic I've seen of him is his part in the No man's land comic where the city is destroyed and everyone is basically in a gang war for pieces of the city. Scarecrow doesn't have his fear toxin but he's a psychologist and he knows how to make people afraid. Stoking their paranioa and turning all of them against each other. I think that could make for a really cool second movie if it were scaled up from the comics to make scarecrow a more city wide threat.
This. Very much this.
“Oh sure mom, yeah Ill go to school and become a psychiatrist. Now look at me, im dressed up like a scarecrow running away from a man dressed like a bat”
@@adrtybrdysturdy2248 Well, his grandmother did abuse him by locking him in a room with hungry crows so I'm not super surprised it went that way tbh.
Idk why but when reading this comment I couldn’t help but think of the Batman Ninja animated movie. Doesn’t have scarecrow but it does have all the villains in a huge gang war for all of Japan. It’s really underrated you should give it a watch if you haven’t already.
I actually saw a set up for Scarecrow through the "drops". It seems like a drug he would manipulate considering it's eye drops. I don't know. Could be something
I love how matpat put holes in his theory first, so no one can do it and weaken the theory. He uses it to emphasize his theory, making it believable even if he handed you the holes in his theory. Like literally right in your face.
Remember this is a younger batman. Who's only been Batman for about 2 years
Battinson has been pushing for Court of Owls in interviews, so I can see a spot for Thomas Elliot to be in allegiance with them. He is upper class after all, and I'm sure the Court would appreciate a Bruce Wayne imposter. He could also take the place of the supposed "Thomas Wayne Jr" (both being Thomases)
Excuse me, his name is Robbat Battinbat.
Your right and the figure behind batman in that scribble paper looks like a owl to me.
I don't know, i feel Riddler was a combination of Hush and Riddler, and at this point putting hush in will feel contrived.
Agree.
I see where you're coming from, but i feel like having a villain that shares some features with the riddler but then adds in having more of batman's skillset might make for a strong continuation of the story of it's done well
totally agree
He's also the combination of Zodiac Killer and SAW.
15:42
I felt that. joker is my personal fav villain ever, but batman has some of the most diverse villains that seeing a hush, poison ivy, or maybe even a different bane would be interesting. joker will always rein supreme, but at some point, he gets way overused.
Batman has great villains
I think joker is a huge fan fave across the board, but I personally think that's a lot to do with Mark Hamill's delivery and performance in the original animated series.
Yea, seeing a cool underrated villain like the previously mentioned Hush or Profesor Pig would be fucking awesome.
Or even a more well known villain like Mr Freeze or Two face but actually well adapted and scary.
@@astrocake584 I was thinking professor pyg would be fun
Also, in batman Hush, the animated movie, the writers realised that it would be WAY to obvious that Hush would be Bruce's best friend from childhood that we'd never seen before, so they made Hush the Riddler, and continued that storyline into the Harley Quinn animated series.
The link between Riddler and Hush ingrained and it has been proven to sell.
The only successful Joker that would fit the age gap, and that I'm personally wiiling to accept in live action would be Mark Hamill.
RIP Kevin Conroy.
I remember first seeing how much of a nerd Riddler was but then watching the scene of him yelling at Batman made me scared of him yet again.
The Riddler's debut in the Batman animated series has one of THE best endings of the entire show.
Personally, I think the one thing that kills this is that Riddler is kind of already mixed with Hush in this movie. From the costume, to the motive, to the even more conspiratorial plotting he does. I personally hope it’s just a cameo.
If hush comes,this riddler ,it will be similar .But still I like to see hush together
Agreed. I think thyer pulling lots of inspiration from the wide oeuvre of batman-ology. A little from here, a little from there. Let's remix samples from the hits into something new.
Now that you say that, it makes sense to use parts of Hush’s backstory and transplant a more recognizable villain onto it. My issue with the idea the Hush will be a major player in the future is that no one knows who he is aside from serious fans. (Plus the riddler would sell more toys and we all know that’s a bigger factor than people think)
@@batgirl_brunette3873 This film series is for serious fans, most casual batman fans didn't like the film. Considering the fact that they plan on doing 3-5 films, I think that they're going to introduce hush at some point, there are just too many references to him to have him not show up at some point. I think he will show up in the 3rd film and have him be a threat from there on.
@@Pretzils1031
Makes sense. A huge part of the movie focused on Carmine Falcone, who is practically unheard of outside of the diehard community.
I’m so tired of the joker. He wasn’t really my favorite of the bunch. The others deserve their chance to shine, they’re also just more interesting imo. I was so happy to see a movie with The Riddler as the main villain, it felt fresh.
i kind of agree? I mean i LOVE joker but it’d be cool to see other villains get their spotlight- (i wanna learn more about Scarecrow and some other villains honestly)
I really want a court of owls movie.
@@mysticmidnight8377 agreed but there is not that many villains .. i think outside of gotham is the better approach
maybe like scarecrow and bane but what else then ?
I want Deathstroke
Matpat’s crying riddler impersonation is, hilariously, spot on.
Throughout the movie I kept thinking they were going to add the twist that Riddler is actually Hush. In his mask he looks more like Hush than the typical Riddler, and DC has already made Hush and Riddler the same in the animated Hush film. If anything I think that's an easier pivot than changing the Joker into Hush.
i actually think 'The Riddler" was Mad Hatter and the inmate at the end was the real Riddler, or hopefully The Creeper (he was a journalist after all, and this movie clearly states that one is missing)... the use of sound, Ave Maria as a hypnotic trigger and taping the heads, plays on the whole hat fetish Tetch has. But if Dano really was Riddler, then my money is on the inmate being the Hatter. Hatter's whole thing is mind control, and in Alice's Advs in Wonderland, which shaped Tetch's psychosis it wouldn't be out of character for Hatter to view Batman as Alice, and send Alice a slew of riddles.When is a Batman like a writing desk. ;)
@@weiderstromx so basically Batman forever without the changes
I like the interactions with Editor Dan. Having that outside commentary, that voice of 'logic' opposing Matt's theories and speculation makes them even more enjoyable as they bounce things off of each other.
YES! It was my favorite part of the theory this time haha
I think you missed the point from the start that Batman isn't a hero in this, he was never trying to be a hero. This is why it's so appealing, he's exactly like everyone else angry at the system.
It's the ending where he realizes there can be many ways to make the city better.
And Batman DID realize at the end that he needs to develop his Bruce Wayne personality. You saw Alfred telling him to do so earlier, you saw mirror situations where they treat Batman horribly but Bruce like royalty, and the ending where he realizes there are different ways to deal with crime and corruption in Gotham. They wouldn't go out of their way to include all of that if they weren't foreshadowing a change in his methods for the next movie.
The movie does answer all of these, I think you need a rewatch.
Yeah it's a shite movie. Stop trying to act smarter than you really are because you're desperately grasping at straws by finding hidden meanings in a mid tier snoozefest of a film.
I have more faith in this than Star Wars, but we all saw in the latest trilogy that set ups and foreshadowing in blockbuster billion dollar movies aren't necessarily set in stone.
@@voodoodolll Well I hope youre right because I'm dreading having to sit through another joker. The heath ledger one was fine but I think we have all had enough of him and should be open to different villains.
So when he was rescuing people in the beginning he wasn't trying to be a hero? Are these bot accounts?
@@VonJay too smooth brain to understand past a sentence in multiple paragraphs?
I'm not sure if you would see this but l'll miss you Mat, I'll binge watch your previous as a tribute to your great work
Also based on what Matt Reeves said, it didn’t sound like the Joker is going to be the next villian, but rather someone that’ll be built up to in the future, and I like that. I could definitely see Hush or my pick: Mr. Freeze.
Mr Freeze is amazing but I doubt they'd stretch him to carry a movie. He'd likely be a secondary Villian alongside Penguin in the second one. Be interesting who the big bad is. Maybe it'll be a take on the The war of jokes and Riddles from the comics (Joker and Riddler use Villians to fight against each other).
See I don’t think Mr. Freeze would play well in the grounded Gotham they’ve set up. If they did use him then he’d have to be closer in style to Captain Cold.
Dude it’s crazy how accurate u were with ur Batman predictions over a year ago! U nailed everything except the specifics, but u nailed the theme of the movie amazingly well
There are so many Batman villains that haven't had there chance to shine outside of the comics, it would be nice to have some more be in the movies. P.S. I really think they should continue the Dark Knight trilogy but I know they won't :(
If you know they won't ever ever do that why mention it lol
@@joeltaveras4553 a man can dream...a man can dream.
Thats why I loved the Batman Lego movie, and The Suicide Squad. It gave the obscure villains a chance to be seen.
I personally love the riddler as a character but he is either the guy who does riddle one-liners or is Mr.Puzzles(example: riddler in Arkham) but I personally think he goes best when the audience can solve one overall riddle that requires the answer to several other riddles and because of that I feel he is the easiest batman character to mess up which is why he needs a smart writer to properly utilize what he brings to the table against batman
In the animated version of Hush he IS The Riddler taking his game up to 11 after feeling like the bottom tier of Batman's rogues gallery, it honestly worked better than random new character introduced for that specific story. I could see them repeating that with a sequel to the new movie where Riddler escapes and changes up his game and takes on the persona of Hush to get revenge on The Batman
I hope Batman 2 will took inspiration in the animated movie batman hush. Where riddler became Hush that is always 11 steps ahead of batman and is super smart because of the Lazarus pit.
The Riddler has always been my favorite Batman villain for those reasons too.
MatPat deceives своих же subscribers:..
ua-cam.com/video/cAQxPSwM4h0/v-deo.html
I am in total agreement with you MatPat, I love the Joker but there’s too much of him and it was hush for the next movie I would be super excited and I do wish we see more of Batman’s rogues gallery in the future
MatPat deceives своих же subscribers:..
ua-cam.com/video/cAQxPSwM4h0/v-deo.html
Absolutely, I'll still watch it if it's the joker, but hush would just be so much cooler
Joker wouls be the villain of the third
joker, joker, joker; always the joker. it's getting a bit old. pattinsons 2nd batman shouldn't already deal with the joker. hush could be a refreshing change
@Embreis Matt Reeves has already said that just because the joker was teased it doesn’t mean he gonna be in the sequel,l. he was only in the film for world building and that a villain for the sequel hasn’t been decided let, but he did say that he is thinking as making Mr Freeze the next villain or one of them.
15:10 : Here's the part where I always get goosebumps
I like the editors interactions with Mat, give some good vibes and feels like commenting the theory to a friend... I do not know.. I like it
When they mentioned the Elliot in the Batman I immediately was hoping hush would show up in the movie. Hopefully he will 100 % put him in the series
I think that Robert Pattinson's portrayal of batman is fantastic, it's a huge torch to carry, and he carried it very well, I like how he was so different from someone like christian bale, choosing more of a reclusive rich boy than a suave billionaire philanthropist
i agrée! i enjoyed the movie, although it felt a bit comical at times because the actor was robert pattinson, and with his personality it just- you can tell there are certain scenes he would have hated that added to the novelty. although, the direction of his character is more to do with the writers than him. so if you want to praise anyone, praise them
@@zoexo9268 yeah
His performance shows how crazy and ill-adjusted he is. Family wealth is shadow of what it was and whole city is a mess. Last of Cobblepot-family is two-bit gangster and he ain't much better.
@@vksasdgaming9472 true?
I wonder if riddler in the next film turns into hush himself. After realizing he needs to seek revenge on Batman, he realized his riddler persona wasn’t going to be enough to take him down. And after Joker making Riddler go more mentally insane then he already is, riddler slowly comes to the conclusion that he has to break out of Arkham, and become something more physically powerful to defeat The Batman. Then Riddler figures out who Batman is, uses that to his advantage, and becomes Hush
6:07 The director of the movie says that this character isn't yet who we know him as. Perhaps in this story it is originally hush, who batman has had an experience with, turning into the joker. It would give him a reason to wear heavy makeup, to cover his scars from his surgeries on himself, and those surgeries could be the reason for joker's smile.
Or it could be that his red Hood first which does make sense in other media like in the Arkham games joker's backstory there is he used to be the original Red Hood before he became the joker so that could also make sense.
To be perfectly honest I’m just glad we got a genuinely good performance for the Riddler. Closest we got was TV Gotham. But the performance in The Batman was simply incredible, I’m so glad we got to see a dark Interpretation of the character.
I’ll still hold that the TV show Gotham version of the character was the best we’ve ever gotten, but the one in The Batman is pretty dang good too.
6:50
Is it just me or is Matpat slowly turning from Riddler to joker?
Lol! I love how the “Well, there’s a new salad fingers!” And then the low “He should be hush” is like when the quiet kid start talking 🤣
Salad Fingers should be Hush.
I think that hush and the court of owls would work best moving forward into a trilogy in this new Batman universe. I would really enjoy a second trilogy with the penguin maybe mr freeze ( if they do mr freeze he has to be played by Giancarlo Esposito) I think an interesting thing they could do with joker would be to have him as the first villain Batman took down so they already have a connection but he isn’t the joker yet. But as martial law was introduced to Gotham and the city being in chaos, I think joker taking control of Arkham asylum (which I think is on an island in this universe, like Alcatraz) would be very interesting, so here’s what I think a good Batman universe could look like.
The Batman - this movie that already came out.
The Batman 2 - A movie where Hush is the main villain, Bruce Wayne is trying to save the reputation of his family while using his wealth to help the city as much as he can. But at the same time he is trying to balance being Batman and fighting hush. There would be a lot of hints at the court of owls, maybe a scene where penguin is visited by the court of owls that want to use him as a figure head to hide behind and control the cities crime whilst staying hidden.
The Series - I thing that this could work as either a very important to watch show like wanda vision is to doctor strange 2, or an optional series going through commissioner Gordon before he met batman, maybe even showing the big drug bust that they talked about in the movie. I’d rather see a show where joker takes over Arkham asylum while all the attention is on the flooded city, and turns it into a haunted house type of horror show that takes batman outside of what he’s used to. I read of tracking down the villains, in Arkham he would be chased and it would make the joker seem like an actual horror character and could be really interesting to watch. Maybe I’m the second film they introduce robin at the end and make batman have to save him. Only to fail and for robin to be assumed dead. But then In the second trilogy one of the films would be the under the red hood storyline from the comics. It would end with the joker escaping to the city or something like that. Or the could just make it a prequel series that takes place before the events of the movies.
The Batman 3 - Now this would be batman trying to find Joker after his escape from Arkham , only to have to put that to the side after realizing the court of owls exist. I won’t get into that because it kinda rights itself, but I would want it to end framing Gotham as not perfect but without large scale corruption and Batman’s only goal from this point on is to catch Joker after what he did to robin or something.
Then In a second trilogy,
The Batman 4 - The story starts with cat woman returning if she hasn’t already, and Batman and her having a reunion of sorts. Then batman tells her what happened in Gotham and she is surprised to hear about robin. Then red hood starts doing stuff and it’s basically just the underneath the red hood storyline. At the end robin either dies, goes away like cat woman did in the end of The Batman 1, or turns good again.
The Batman 5 - If robin survives, there’s a three musketeers trope with Batman, cat woman and robin trying to find joker or just trying to rid the city of crime and curry potion together. The movie would start with a scene of them chasing down someone on there motorcycles. Maybe it’s killer croc escaping custody and they take him down at the start of the film. The rest of the film could be penguin causing trouble, 2 face, mr freeze, I’d love to see the scarecrow, or game or something but basically a film of the three of them taking down a villain together.
The Batman 6 - The last film would be the joker finally showing up and them taking him down. Maybe he captures cat woman and robin and makes him choose who he saves and who falls into to their death. Maybe he tries to turn robin into the next joker. There’s a lot they could do, but I would want it to end with joker and Batman fighting in the rain.
There is so much more I want from this new Batman but this comment is way to long and I don’t think anyone’s gonna read the whole thing anyway but yea
You're optimistic to think we'll get 2 whole trilogies, neither Reeves or Pattinson would commit to that. But I like your pitch for the first trilogy, seeing The Court of Owls on the big screen would be a dream come true
@@Mopark25 yea very optimistic. I do think hush and the court of owls are a no brainer moving forward with this style of Batman that’s more of an amateur detective that makes mistakes and has a lot to learn. Also I am now realizing that there already is a show called Gotham that is basically what I said as the alternative tv show so yea.
@@MrSky-jw6fu It’s a seriously great show and criminally underrated if you haven’t seen it yet.
@@jacksauce I haven’t I’ll have to check it out
I was thinking maybe hush could be an escaped talon of some kind as well. Talons are kids that were taken by the court of owls to train into murder ninjas basically
I think that the final Matt Reeves Batman movie will have Hush, once all of his pawns (riddler, joker, poison ivy) are introduced
It makes perfect sense to have hush in the next movie. However that doesn't exclude the Joker. Matt reewes has clearly shown that he can balance several villains in a movie
Dont forget Pattinson also expressed interest in mr freeze and the court of owls!
I would love to see Manbat as well
In the movie when he tries to get the penguins nightclub, did anyone notice how when he entered as Batman it evolves into a big messy brawl. When he enters as Bruce buys his way in, gets the information secretly and gets out.
This could be a set up for a trilogy with Hush being the ultimate villain behind it all. Matt said it himself, Hush is all about manipulation and has done so to almost every major Batman villain. It wouldn't even be a stretch to find out he planted the renewal stuff with Riddler to set him on the path we see in the first film.
Irish wasn’t the master manipulator people might think he was, he needed riddler to set everything up and get the villains to listen to him as the riddler was the real mastermind and not hush