It’s a long but painless death and he’s technically not killing anybody it’s not like it’s going to hinder anybody giving birth is not a need it better then the rumbling in my opinion that would not only kill most of the worlds population but all the animals and the crops
there is nothing to like in that plan. Its simply a kid who refuses to live in reality and would rather be dead. He imposes his stupid dogma like the previous fritz king on all eldians like he is some higher authority.
@@rdcarbonk1885 There is something to like in that plan, it's better than committing mass genocide. Zeke found a peaceful and painless alternative to eren's plan. Eren's plan is brutal, merciless, and unhelpful. Zeke's plan is Merciful, Humane, and Painless.
its fucked up that the most twisted philosophy to apply in real life (abuse victims killing themselves), in AoT is humane compared to the other methods
You left out the fact that if Zeke didn’t rat out his parents, him and his grandparents would’ve been titanized when Grisha and Dina were inevitably caught.
They were heading towards ironically failure anyway. Even if zeke had become a warrior restorationist. Being the one to lead the charge and get the founder he would have simply becomed the next reiss king.
That was really great expectation.I think Zeke was trying to do the same thing Itachi did but in a more humane manner.Both of them had this realisation that if they weren't born in this world they wouldn't have to suffer.
I'm going to be completely honest. Zeke’s reasoning made me agree with his plan from the moment he revealed it. I don't know why but I thought about and it's really the best and most human option.
Crazy to think this video only has 3k views I thought I was watching a famous philosophy channel with the quality of this video damn bro yt did u dirty keep going man you’ll each the top
Thank you for this educational video! Naturally, the idea of antinatalism is baffling at first sight so I wanted to go in depth to understand Zekes ideology. It is very interesting to see a character in an anime that is carrying this idea and it must have been hard to interpret it so it doesn't feel out of place. You really peaked my curiosity with this!
Seeing the Past of A Person In Attackontitan is like going down memory lane where you get a taste into their life, it does not justify killing but it makes you sympathize with the actions of someone I know that sounds bad but it does.
At 1:42 you can see a goat/ram toy in the bottom left. Like how zeke was playing with a monke toy before becoming a monke titan, tom later becomes a goat/ram titan in the manga Additionally, at 1:46 you can see toys that look like eren and zeke in the box besides tom's wife. There's also a toy that looks to maybe be historia? But idk (if there's any symbolism behind "historia"being under zeke and eren pls don't spoil it; i haven't read the manga past the point where s4 ends)
The ending shows that sacrificing the race would not end the cycle of violence. Though we only see paradise being bombed the truth of the matter is the conflict is more or less world wide. Hes basically ending his own race so the other people can kill each other on their own terms.
@@danzack900 Nope he set out to save the world, by euthanazia. Believing that eldians are just a source of pain and misery. And after failing he was ok with everyone dying.
Zeke’s plan meant robbing his people of a future in order to save the humans that want him and his race DEAD in the first place. That’s why Eren ruthlessly opposed it. He couldn’t accept it. Everyone forgets that even if Zeke’s plan would’ve worked, Marley attacks and destroys Paradis anyways according to the paths that Eren saw. And plenty of people have died in the process of Zeke trying to see this out. Zeke also wanted to use a partial rumbling to deter attacks on the island meaning a substantial of people would die anyways.
1: No, he directly states that not being born would prevent Eldian suffering. Titan powers disappearing is a nice plus and an effective way to convince people (In universe) to help him, but not the main point. 2: Eren effectively binge watched Attack On Titan in a second, not alternate paths. In fact AoT is a deterministic universe, you can’t have an alternate path. 3: They would use the rumbling as a deterrent, as Colossal Titans are still uncontested, and in the amount of time for Eldians to die out. The world would not be able to develop 1960s - 1970s equipment on a broad scale. They’re somewhere between the end of WW1 - the beginning of WW2 so a long way from mass produced fighter jets and carpet bombings. 4: Lots of people have died in Eren’s plans, Armin’s, Erwin’s. Everyone’s killed someone else in AoT 5: Using a district’s walls, temporarily, and letting the Colossal Titans splash around the ocean; while the azumbotio film it. Would be enough to show the world that the rumbling is still possible and it’s still not worth it to attack Paradis.
@@MichealFelk the rumble was a real threat, and Marley declared war on Paradis ANYWAYS. It wasn’t enough to stop other nations from going for their resources.
@@Bornagainvillain 1: Marley invaded because they knew the rumbling wasn’t an actual threat, King Fritz told the Tybur family, the rumbling being usable was something new 2: Even if Marley invaded, rumble their military bases until they stop, no one has enough or big enough equipment to stop a rumbling. And considering Paradis is gone after the next generation, we don’t need to worry about the international opinions on such an action. 3: Hizzuru didn’t invade them, neither did the volunteers, they actively worked with Paradis for mutual gain.
Watching this I realized Zeke and Geto from jjk are opposite in their approach to suffering, Geto decides all human should die with sorcerers staying, while Zeke thinks he should have to die to stop his suffering. Eren and Geto would probably have gotten along lmao
As someone who has suffered from anhedionia, I argue that the absence of pleasure is bad. Everything becomes meaningless. Yes suffering is bad, but as long as you can experience pleasure as well, you can find meaning in it.
2:29 individuals can attain liberation (moksha) from the cycle of birth and death (samsara), thus ending suffering. This is achieved through meditation, self-inquiry, and a deep understanding of the teachings found in the Upanishads.
Individuals are more likely to attain liberation, by not going through the problem in the first place. If dying is bad, and death is intrinsic to life, and to live you must be born. Don’t be born bro
Zeke's plan was a terrible solution, yet, among the alternatives that actually came to pass it was an infinitely better path that didn't came to pass just for the sake of continuation an nothing else.
I’m antinatalist and do believe it’s better if people didn’t have kids to spare them the suffering of existing, but I don’t care enough about others and others’ kids to convince them not to procreate. I have zero interest in what happens after I’m dead because I won’t have children of my own (if I had children, I’d have to think about the future because they’d outlive me)
He’s more concerned about the life that hasn’t been born yet (a dead person can’t procreate, therefore he “saved” the lives that would’ve been born through that person, not just children but grandchildren, etc)
I disagree because Buddha already told us the only way to end suffering is to let go of desires. I would like Zeke more if he didn't kill his own people, and if his plan came about from a standpoint of showing compassion.
If u think about ur disagreement, u'll see why Buddha condemned antinatalism and nihilism as major heresies. Buddhism, antinatalism and nihilism agree that life is just suffering and is pointless. But the latter two simply deny samsara and the escape from it. So long as samsara and nirvana can't be proven, those two other philosophies do sound much more sensible. That's why Buddha and Buddhists preemptively condemn them.
I don't think they are delusional. In my opinion, I think antinatalism would be useful. Say that scientists say that we are going extinct in 200 year. I wouldn't want to bring more kids to a already doomed world. Another way at looking at it is that antinatalism suggest that never born is bad, but never saying that we should all be dead. A life not worth beginning is not a life not worth continuing. It's like eating pineapple pizza, you don't like pineapples but the pizza is kinda tasty. That's just me, I'm not an antinatalist but not a natalist either. Even if your life was not worth beginning, you're here now. Just enjoy the ride.
Thats not mostly the point to Anti-natalism. In general its selfish having children. Rather its for the benefit of YOU or SOMETHING ELSE...its selfish. Even if life was strictly perfect, its still selfish. And the child doesnt exist to care about life.
I think Zeke's ideology is justified in the context of an Eldian who lives in Marley and suffers greatly. However, if I see the Yeagerist ideology, it seems far better than Zeke's because they are sacrificing the world for the good of the Eldians. On the other hand, Zeke is sacrificing Eldians for the sake of the world. So, in this context, the Yeagerist ideology is better than Zeke's ideology. Nonetheless, I will say that Zeke's ideology is still very much logical and justified.
I agree. Zeke’s plan is hard to accept but at the same time it is probably the most humane if you think about it.
It’s a long but painless death and he’s technically not killing anybody it’s not like it’s going to hinder anybody giving birth is not a need it better then the rumbling in my opinion that would not only kill most of the worlds population but all the animals and the crops
there is nothing to like in that plan. Its simply a kid who refuses to live in reality and would rather be dead. He imposes his stupid dogma like the previous fritz king on all eldians like he is some higher authority.
@@rdcarbonk1885 There is something to like in that plan, it's better than committing mass genocide. Zeke found a peaceful and painless alternative to eren's plan. Eren's plan is brutal, merciless, and unhelpful. Zeke's plan is Merciful, Humane, and Painless.
its fucked up that the most twisted philosophy to apply in real life (abuse victims killing themselves), in AoT is humane compared to the other methods
I think the best peaceful plan was King Fritz.. i will take my people in this Island we won't cause any problem and don't bother us
Glad to see a character’s philosophy centered around antinatalism
You left out the fact that if Zeke didn’t rat out his parents, him and his grandparents would’ve been titanized when Grisha and Dina were inevitably caught.
They were heading towards ironically failure anyway.
Even if zeke had become a warrior restorationist. Being the one to lead the charge and get the founder he would have simply becomed the next reiss king.
Zeke eren and Reiner were very well written characters with very good character development
That was really great expectation.I think Zeke was trying to do the same thing Itachi did but in a more humane manner.Both of them had this realisation that if they weren't born in this world they wouldn't have to suffer.
I'm going to be completely honest. Zeke’s reasoning made me agree with his plan from the moment he revealed it. I don't know why but I thought about and it's really the best and most human option.
Zekes plan is horrible. A philosophy of weakness
Crazy to think this video only has 3k views I thought I was watching a famous philosophy channel with the quality of this video damn bro yt did u dirty keep going man you’ll each the top
Ty broo
Thank you for this educational video!
Naturally, the idea of antinatalism is baffling at first sight so I wanted to go in depth to understand Zekes ideology. It is very interesting to see a character in an anime that is carrying this idea and it must have been hard to interpret it so it doesn't feel out of place.
You really peaked my curiosity with this!
Underrated video, high quality and deserves more views! Thanks for it, and also, great soundtrack selection!!
Seeing the Past of A Person In Attackontitan is like going down memory lane where you get a taste into their life, it does not justify killing but it makes you sympathize with the actions of someone I know that sounds bad but it does.
wait until people realize that anyone has a backstory, yet it doesn't justifie any of the actions.
Awesome visuals and thank you for spreading the philosophy of antinatalism.
At 1:42 you can see a goat/ram toy in the bottom left. Like how zeke was playing with a monke toy before becoming a monke titan, tom later becomes a goat/ram titan in the manga
Additionally, at 1:46 you can see toys that look like eren and zeke in the box besides tom's wife. There's also a toy that looks to maybe be historia? But idk (if there's any symbolism behind "historia"being under zeke and eren pls don't spoil it; i haven't read the manga past the point where s4 ends)
This video provides a tantalizing viewpoint on a not-so popular take..I love it 💯
Sacrificing future of his race to ensure the survival of the present of both and future of others seemed the best choice here.
in the end it would have been temporary.
The ending shows that sacrificing the race would not end the cycle of violence. Though we only see paradise being bombed the truth of the matter is the conflict is more or less world wide.
Hes basically ending his own race so the other people can kill each other on their own terms.
@@rdcarbonk1885 Yeah but he didn't set out to end all war. Just the eldian/Marley conflict. Humans will be humans whatever they do. Erwin knew that.
@@danzack900 Nope he set out to save the world, by euthanazia. Believing that eldians are just a source of pain and misery.
And after failing he was ok with everyone dying.
This video is a great summary! Of both, the manga/anmie and the viewpoints behind it.
(And I liked the visuals and pictures)
He is my favorite from the first
My favourite character as well
Zeke’s plan meant robbing his people of a future in order to save the humans that want him and his race DEAD in the first place.
That’s why Eren ruthlessly opposed it. He couldn’t accept it. Everyone forgets that even if Zeke’s plan would’ve worked, Marley attacks and destroys Paradis anyways according to the paths that Eren saw.
And plenty of people have died in the process of Zeke trying to see this out. Zeke also wanted to use a partial rumbling to deter attacks on the island meaning a substantial of people would die anyways.
1: No, he directly states that not being born would prevent Eldian suffering. Titan powers disappearing is a nice plus and an effective way to convince people (In universe) to help him, but not the main point.
2: Eren effectively binge watched Attack On Titan in a second, not alternate paths. In fact AoT is a deterministic universe, you can’t have an alternate path.
3: They would use the rumbling as a deterrent, as Colossal Titans are still uncontested, and in the amount of time for Eldians to die out. The world would not be able to develop 1960s - 1970s equipment on a broad scale. They’re somewhere between the end of WW1 - the beginning of WW2 so a long way from mass produced fighter jets and carpet bombings.
4: Lots of people have died in Eren’s plans, Armin’s, Erwin’s. Everyone’s killed someone else in AoT
5: Using a district’s walls, temporarily, and letting the Colossal Titans splash around the ocean; while the azumbotio film it. Would be enough to show the world that the rumbling is still possible and it’s still not worth it to attack Paradis.
@@MichealFelk the rumble was a real threat, and Marley declared war on Paradis ANYWAYS. It wasn’t enough to stop other nations from going for their resources.
@@Bornagainvillain 1: Marley invaded because they knew the rumbling wasn’t an actual threat, King Fritz told the Tybur family, the rumbling being usable was something new
2: Even if Marley invaded, rumble their military bases until they stop, no one has enough or big enough equipment to stop a rumbling. And considering Paradis is gone after the next generation, we don’t need to worry about the international opinions on such an action.
3: Hizzuru didn’t invade them, neither did the volunteers, they actively worked with Paradis for mutual gain.
I think he is, but he’s still a great character.
A very based and rational character
Zeke is the ultimate cuck
Watching this I realized Zeke and Geto from jjk are opposite in their approach to suffering, Geto decides all human should die with sorcerers staying, while Zeke thinks he should have to die to stop his suffering. Eren and Geto would probably have gotten along lmao
Virgin “Life is bad” Zook VS Chad “Because I was Born” Aaron
MY FAVORITE ZEKE
As someone who has suffered from anhedionia, I argue that the absence of pleasure is bad. Everything becomes meaningless. Yes suffering is bad, but as long as you can experience pleasure as well, you can find meaning in it.
the absence of pleasure is only bad if someone suffers because of that
An unborn person doesn.'t suffer from the absence of pleasure
@@eisteebastard7565 Hmm, interesting. I don't entirely disagree, but I'm also not convinced. You've given me something to think about at least
This video is so underrated
2:29 individuals can attain liberation (moksha) from the cycle of birth and death (samsara), thus ending suffering. This is achieved through meditation, self-inquiry, and a deep understanding of the teachings found in the Upanishads.
Individuals are more likely to attain liberation, by not going through the problem in the first place. If dying is bad, and death is intrinsic to life, and to live you must be born. Don’t be born bro
Zeke's plan was a terrible solution, yet, among the alternatives that actually came to pass it was an infinitely better path that didn't came to pass just for the sake of continuation an nothing else.
The bests solution was simply removing the titan ability or making everyone forget about it but after that Id say Zeke's idea is the best
You used the Cicada 3301 soundtrack from Lemmino XD , nice
hell yea
abstaining from getting carried away in desires.
Never gonna forgive him for what he did to my boy miche 😤😤
abstaining from procreation to prevent future evil.
I’m antinatalist and do believe it’s better if people didn’t have kids to spare them the suffering of existing, but I don’t care enough about others and others’ kids to convince them not to procreate. I have zero interest in what happens after I’m dead because I won’t have children of my own (if I had children, I’d have to think about the future because they’d outlive me)
Good analysis
my GOAT
Zeke IMO is a better char than Eren. Eren used to be my fav until forced fan service romance ruined his character in the end.
abstaining from the innate desire to replicate.
that isn't benatar's picture
Why did he kill off mike so brutally then?? Ik he thinks ppl are better off death but still
THAT'S WHAT IM SAYING
but tbh mike would have caused him trouble
He’s more concerned about the life that hasn’t been born yet (a dead person can’t procreate, therefore he “saved” the lives that would’ve been born through that person, not just children but grandchildren, etc)
What's the song you used in the beginning ?
Old Joe from ping pong the animation
@@awdii Thank you
I disagree because Buddha already told us the only way to end suffering is to let go of desires.
I would like Zeke more if he didn't kill his own people, and if his plan came about from a standpoint of showing compassion.
If u think about ur disagreement, u'll see why Buddha condemned antinatalism and nihilism as major heresies. Buddhism, antinatalism and nihilism agree that life is just suffering and is pointless. But the latter two simply deny samsara and the escape from it. So long as samsara and nirvana can't be proven, those two other philosophies do sound much more sensible. That's why Buddha and Buddhists preemptively condemn them.
@@antaresoung9392 If you you understood the buddha, you would know that Samsara and Nirvana aren't places.
Anti-natalism is a mental disorder
@@GallowayJesse Its claled rationality
Life isn't perfect and that's what makes it beautiful. There is beauty in pain. Without the hard times, the good times wouldn't be as significant.
I don't think they are delusional. In my opinion, I think antinatalism would be useful. Say that scientists say that we are going extinct in 200 year. I wouldn't want to bring more kids to a already doomed world. Another way at looking at it is that antinatalism suggest that never born is bad, but never saying that we should all be dead. A life not worth beginning is not a life not worth continuing. It's like eating pineapple pizza, you don't like pineapples but the pizza is kinda tasty. That's just me, I'm not an antinatalist but not a natalist either. Even if your life was not worth beginning, you're here now. Just enjoy the ride.
Yeah
@Cosmic Lifeist delusional or realistic?😂
Truth hurts
Thats not mostly the point to Anti-natalism. In general its selfish having children. Rather its for the benefit of YOU or SOMETHING ELSE...its selfish. Even if life was strictly perfect, its still selfish. And the child doesnt exist to care about life.
You sound insane lol
I think Zeke's ideology is justified in the context of an Eldian who lives in Marley and suffers greatly. However, if I see the Yeagerist ideology, it seems far better than Zeke's because they are sacrificing the world for the good of the Eldians. On the other hand, Zeke is sacrificing Eldians for the sake of the world. So, in this context, the Yeagerist ideology is better than Zeke's ideology. Nonetheless, I will say that Zeke's ideology is still very much logical and justified.
Glad to see others learn of antinatalism