Why Bands Struggle with the Sophomore Slump: Van Halen, Guns N' Roses, RHCP & More
Вставка
- Опубліковано 15 вер 2024
- Support this channel by shopping at Sweetwater sweetwater.sjv...
You can help this channel by using my Amazon link. amzn.to/4az0up5
You can buy me a coffee here: www.buymeacoff...
The dreaded Sophomore Slump - why do so many bands fail to top their breakout albums? In this video, I dive into the common problem many artists face after their debut success, exploring legendary bands like Van Halen, Guns N' Roses, The Red Hot Chili Peppers, and Thin Lizzy. We’ll discuss why a first album is often unbeatable, the pressures that come with follow-up releases, and how the music industry no longer allows bands the time to develop their sound through multi-album contracts. Discover how a band can only create their career-defining record when their very lives are on the line. Don't miss this deep dive into one of rock music's biggest challenges!
#SophomoreSlump #VanHalen #GunsNRoses #RedHotChiliPeppers #ThinLizzy #RockMusic #MusicIndustry #DebutAlbum #BandDevelopment
All I can say about Van Halen 1 is that for those of us who loved hard rock and were around at the time it came out it wasn't just a "game changer" or a hot new band, it was the music version of a blinding flash followed by a mushroom cloud. It was tectonic shifting and I still remember the first time I heard it.
That sums it up.....just an absolute blinding flash.
The ‘sound of survival’ - absolutely 100% right. A powerful statement and summarises the vibe of AFD and Van Halen I perfectly. Love your channel Brad. Big support here from the UK.
Makes me so glad to reach people all over the world. I wanted to do that from the stage. But now this is the stage and I’m so glad. Thank you.
The TV show I worked as a PA on helped launch Incubus. The record label changed them. They told the band to ditch Alex, the bass player (who played like Flea, slap bass) and they told Brandon to stop “rap” singing and to actually sing melodically. The label did not want another RCHP at the end of waning interest. This was 1995/1996. Incubus became a huge success after doing what the label told them to do. The sound they had success with was completely different from their pre-label sound.
Wow so the label was right. It’s good when that happens
@@badbrad do you think the label or more often right or wrong?
Never heard of them.
@@cornstar1253 did you listen to music around 1999 to 2001? “Drive,” “Pardon Me” or “Wish You Were Here” are probably their best known songs. “Stellar” and “Anna Molly” are also good.
Sometimes label are right and sometimes they are wrong but either way they usually have the final say.
Thanks Brad. We appreciate you!
Likewise bro!
Brother, I’m 63 and worked in town for 30+ years. I’ve been on lockout sessions and come back the next day and light my rig off and hit a chord and wonder WTF? I marked my settings with a grease pencil so I KNOW nothing has changed. You’re on point, when you’re in the fever you better finish because it’s shocking how impossible it is to get the vibe back. You can’t. This is tangential but I got to town in 81 and we met several times. You can chop. Crazy that you popped up on my recommendations🤘 congratulations on your last gig in Nashville. My wife and I totally got it. I played my last gig in town in 2012. Bought a house in the Sierra and am gradually getting over the experience🤣🤘🤘
Man thank you glad to see you here! It takes a while to come out of the gig fog. Best to you!
I am a song writer. I’ve written and rawly recorded probably easily a hundred songs. Of that maybe five are really good and another five aren’t bad. This took me ten years of writing songs. So maybe one really good song every one to two years. If I made an album now it would be a quality album. Then if I am asked to record a second album. Where does that come from?
I can’t remember which documentary I was watching but a song writer got a recording contract for his first album. The producer asked to listen to his songs. The producer then said “what else do you got?” And they started listening to the song writer’s throw away songs. The producer said no that one is a hit and it did become a hit. Producers can make or break you.
That’s why I like Nile Rogers. He was responsible for the best selling album for a handful of superstars. Clearly he was the key to taking it to the next level.
Yes he was a great producer!
Or Rick Ruben?
From what I have heard, VH was basically a garbage dump, but somehow cleaned up with Ted, No Ted, no Eruption, for example.
Great advice...never heard that before.
Glad it was helpful!
I remember being friends with Izzy and Axl prior to GnR. Those poor guys slept outside many nights early on. Us locals had mommy and daddy's house. Not them. It was survival or back to Indiana. They took it way more serious than us.
Yeah they struggled for sure
I agree - when GNR lost Steven they lost their swing and with Izzy’s departure they lost their Stones rawness. Izzy’s songwriting was also sorely missed
So true. Steve has swing and it vibed well with Slash's playing. Old School. Then it just got lame. Now it is sad. I saw them in SF at The Stone when they played with Jet Boy headlining. I was there for GnR as I heard of them. It was insane.
@@THOMASDOBROVamazing - when you saw them did you get the sense that they would be huge?
@@BDHunj Yes. I was standing next to Duff during the Jet Boy set and could tell he was so stoked. I did not want to bother him. I knew him from Hardcore Punk days with The Fartz (he on drums) etc. I played with some of the top Bay Area bands. They were just the best. Opening with Jungle in a Kilt! It was like early Aerosmith (Rocks) sped up. Like VH with Sabbath in Oakland. NUTS!
Most bands don’t survive a personnel change like those two but they were too big to fail.
Great comprehensive explanation on bands’ process and creation.
Thank you!
A couple exceptions to this “rule:”
Robin Trower’s debut “ Twice Removed from Yesterday” a very good album, was followed up with “Bridget of Sighs,” one of the greatest blues/rock albums in history. The Black Crowes first album, “Shake Your Money Maker,” was a breath of fresh air in the late 80s, but most fans of the band will agree that they really stepped up their songwriting and playing with their follow up “Southern Harmony & Musical Companion,” which was a far superior album, partly due to the additions of Marc Ford and Eddie Harsch.
Yeah some bands take a while to develop.
Very insightful.. also the first album is typically the most battle tested in front of live audiences and the best grouping of songs the band has written.. vs songs being written in the sterile vacuum of a studio
Yes indeed
True, a lot of first albums are a band’s club set
@@konowd tried and true!
The first Pearl Jam album comes to mind.....
Did they ever top that? Probably not
Loved "Rock You Up." Great Romantics song.
It is indeed!
Contracts, lets talk about em. Keep it up Brad, channel is growing! F the trolls...
Much appreciated!!!
I love this channel. He tells the stories about things that I want to hear and always wondered if it was true or not about certain topics. People can't just go and write a hit album, everyone would be loaded with money, it doesn't work that way and no one is saying the things that brad is saying, that I know of, on youtube. I've been in the middle of a Small Town Club player and playing bigger places and everything he's saying is absolutely true. It's just a great Channel and by the way, there is no way in hell that is a damn wig, folks. LOL
Man you rock! Thank you! 🙏
Van Halen peak in 1984 with 1984 goofball!!! Commercially and artistically!! Number 1 single for 5 weeks, two top 13 songs, classic videos constantly playing on MTV!
Why get so worked up. Still didn’t top the energy and mastery of the first album sure it was hugely popular but so was Britney Spears.
I think asking why is there only one AFD or one VH1 is asking why did you only win the lotto once? These stories are a testament to the greatness of those albums not the lacking of the others. If I was picking on a band that I thought only had one good album, man not sure who I would say but definitely not VH, or GnR. Illusion was HUGE!
Illusion did good because of Appetite it may have sold well but the vibe was not the same. I agree tho VH was not really a one album band but man the debut was just smoking hot and that heat level was never quite reached again.
Sure but i truly believe its about the greatness of the album and not the inability to duplicate it. Bands like Metallica or Pantera for instance did better as more albums came out. @badbrad
I blame the music business machine for forcing most bands to rush a second album.
Alot of truth there...
Lars was smart enough to know the Black album was as big as it was gonna get and they’d be foolish to try and top it. Phenomenons like the Black album and Thriller can’t be repeated, they captured moments and vibes in time that can’t be recaptured
Seems so.
As usual, Brad is 💯 spot on with this topic! I’ve always said Guns and Roses was essentially a one album band, or two if you’re being generous. (I count Use Your Illusion as a decent single album with one LP of filler.) As someone who lived through it all like Brad did, I think he articulates the feeling of the era incredibly well. Quickly, becoming one of my “must watch” YT channels.
Wow man thank you!🙏
Some bands don't make it big until their third album like Def Leppard with Pyromania, and their fourth album Hysteria did even better. Borh sold Diamond but never again after. Van Halens first album went diamond and so did their sixth album 1984. Van Halen alot of great moments in their career.
Very true. Some bands take time to develop their sound.
Man i love listening to this gye speak from experience 🙂
thank you!
I think Axl took way too much control after that first album, he kept wanting to evolve too much. He was always over at West LA Music after 89 buying MIDI and keyboard gear. He should have left Izzy and Slash in the music riff seat and write about girls, not the middle East, in my humble opinion.
Axle sounds like tickle me elmo. Never like his voice, but like the guitar and the songs.
Man you nailed it he was trying to go more industrial and it’s just not what would have worked. If they had stayed a ragged rock band maybe LA wouldn’t have died out. But they got bloated with success
A producer once told me rich kids rarely make good music because there has to be that desperation there. Appetite and Kill Em All can’t be repeated, they’re different people and it’s a different world
@@konowd I believe it.....
I do think there's some truth in that old saying--you have your whole life to write the first one and a ~year to write the second. So it snags up a lot. But there are lots of bands who have put out great second albums and beyond.
Some bands also have those first(or more) records that were way under the radar so the 'first' album that makes them famous is actually their second+. And the sophomore album is technically the third etc. Same dynamics at play though. The Chilis was a good example even though Mother's Milk was another masterpiece imo.
For the most part my most productive songwriting has always come in periods. I'm always writing or trying but the majority of my stuff has come within certain sections of time. I just try to get as much down as possible when it happens.
Man I hear you keep that fire burning!
Great insight. Being in a hungry, broke band bent on survival is like going to war: do or die! That's the soul of the music, the passion. You can't replicate the authenticity of that desperation, except by being in dire straights. It's existential.
Once you reach the golden shore, good life and land of milk and honey, definitely the whole vibe inverts from the quest for survival to the battle against the excesses of success... How can that not effect a band's sound?
Man you hit it out of the park.
@@badbrad You're a great story teller, an art in itself.
Van Halen on every record went back in their vault to find old songs and give them new life. Van Halen II I think was just a fresh look at VHI they didn’t really hit the slump until much later.
Your first record you have your entire life to write, that second record you start writing it as soon as you leave the recording studio and need to finish it before you finish that first tour.
Man so true!
Their slump was Diver/1984. The old catalog was recorded (they milked it!). Now fresh new songs (exception House of Pain rewrite). It was "meh" in comparison to the others. My fave is Fair Warning and VH1/2 (almost one album). Women and Children had filler...but Warning was hot rock. That tour was insane. I saw 2 nights in Oakland. Wow.
@@THOMASDOBROV I saw one night of the 1980 Invasion in San Diego
@@mikeb.7183 That show must have ripped! They were on fire in Oakland. Really great playing by all. Great times indeed!
Motley Crue had a pretty good sophomore album. Metallica, Black Sabbath, Linkin Park, Nirvana, Coldplay, lots more, all had superior sophomore albums.
In Nirvanas case they were maybe a little raw on the first record in their case they developed in the second record but never topped that.
@@badbrad ya, they kinda cornered themselves into a very narrow sound, melodic mood, and structure. They were artistically more like Joy Division or Television.
Metallica built slowly and peaked with the fifth album, Motley grew bigger every album until they peaked with Feelgood
@@konowd Sometimes the trajectory is different...
The guitarist in The Knack said most band careers are supernovas, longevity in the biz is rare
I find it unique in that, imo, Van Halen's two best albums outside of their first one were 1984 and 5150, the last with Dave and their first with Sammy. My favorite song of theirs is Dreams because it's rock but poppy and sounds simplistic but is musically complex and wonderfully constructed
I agree with you 5150 was a solid album but sonically doesn’t hold up as good because of the Simmons drums same could be said for 1984
@@76Draeger I feel like Van Halen is a unique situation where one man, Eddie, had enough ambition, creative genius and work ethic to carry the whole band for as long as he felt inspired to and that was a long time. Sure Dave and Sammy were contributors.
@@AzureRabbits I agree but the way Dave tried to tie Edward to only the guitar and Sammy said play whatever and I'll sing is why I'm one of the few that like Sammy better. I feel he set Edward's creativity free
Whens the last time you listened to 5150? For me its 1986. And time has done nothing good for any of it. I love Van Halen. Met Eddie and Alex in when i was 15. But the magic died in 85@@badbrad
@@kalen7126 Yeah I don't think it holds up well now. Drum tones especially.
Here’s how it worked during my hey day: you work your entire life writing your best songs up to the point you get “signed.”
Record company gives you an advance against expected/potential sales, say $250,000. The recording of that first album comes out of that advance as well as many other things- better gear, paying recording engineer, studio time, the engineer or studio adding on fees such as renting their own and already paid for recording gear;
So, you are in debt for a quarter million dollars and you’re only 22 or 23 years old.
Your record company may make changes to your line up - don’t like your drummer? Here’s a new guy you don’t know tough luck. Record company may find cover songs you don’t like and you have to record them. They might change the name of your band.
Any money you make on that first album goes to record company to pay off your debt.
IF they drop you from label, you still are liable for that $250,000.
IF it sold reasonably then you get to make a second record. This is do or die because you have to pay off debt for first record and incur new debt for the second. Plus you don’t have 15 or 20 years to write killer songs - you have six months or less.
IF you manage to get a hit that pays off the first and second record, you get to record your third. You haven’t made any money for yourself yet. So you have to come up with 12 new songs in a short amount of time that have to match or exceed the “hit” from previous efforts. If your band can do this then you begin, maybe, to make some money depending on how much advance you accept to make the record.
You’re in a constant state of serfdom to your label.
You can skip all of this by taking out a loan from your bank and setting the money on fire.
And you can still call yourself “an artist.”
Man it is TOUGH!
Sounds like RATT’s whole career trajectory 😂
Dude, you have hit the nail on the head with everything you say here. I initially clicked on this video I’m disagreement, as I fucking love VH2, that’s my fav album of there’s because of overplayed stuff off the first, but of course I agree and knowing the bands story that really is lightning in a bottle. Especially with GNR, I love the use you’re illusions big time. But those albums came from blood sweat overdoses and near death and like you say the takes of certain solos on certain days capturing the feel. Those albums are 100 percent lightning in a bottle. Aerosmith rocks whilst not a debut I feel also is an album where they’d sweated their asses off touring they had the fire in them to make one of the best hard rock albums ever, and also the same defo goes in that retrospect for AC/DC highway to hell. Those 4 albums are for sure my favourite hard rock albums of all time
That’s a great lineup of albums you mention. I love VH 2 as well but it’s sort of a sequel almost as good as the original.
For sure. I enjoy VH2 more just because a few overplayed ones on the first. But VH1 is absolutely faultless, as is appetite. As a guitar player I love Izzy Stradlin a hell of a lot and always study what he plays on that album and well the missing ingredient on use your illusion really is the groove of Steven Adler as much as I love those albums, also I think Izzy didn’t play too much on those albums as he was getting sober and slash just double tracked a lot, locomotive a good example. One of my fav guns tracks tbf
You're talking on how living just to survive etc leads to the great music reminds me of the movie Crossroads and how he taught what it takes to play the blues is you have to live the blues
Oh ya!
Dark side of the moon was the only pink floyd that i could listen to beginning to end. The wall sounds dated today. DSOTM is timeless
I did like the Wall cause that was the record that hit when I was in high school . Dark side to me sounds like the 70’s and wall Pink Floyd in the 80’s I like both
This is mostly accurate but Van Halen lucked out with 1984 it was like a reinvention and that album broke big time and set them up for a second act. They never reproduced that exact success but they did very well once again with 5150.
I hear ya!
When you started talking abt Metallica, I started thinking abt the RHCP! That Blood sugar sex magic was magical!!! Nice & the Romantics. Cool
Yes indeed!
System of a Down sophomore album was their best work and also turned out to be one of the best albums of all time
The found their formula
I believe "You could be mine" was going to be the last song on the Appetite Album.
That makes sense. It is a jam.
The knack. Prime example
Man what a great debut...
Roth, yes Rich father although Dave says Dad wasn't there writing checks. I believe him. Mr. Roth was old School, even made Dave's sister pay for her own education. Hence the Roth work ethic. That guy is amazing.
He is.
A little tooo amazing
@@Vibeagain Perhaps so.
Every man for himself!
Women and Children first...
Its in the water!
Could be!
The original material gets written and you're out making a name for yourself, gigging, touring, honing and perfecting those songs over months or, most likely, years. You finally get the break you've been hoping for and that material is what gets on the first album. Now you have to get out and tour that album for who knows how long and the band is still playing those songs because that's what your fans want to hear. Maybe there's time to be creative during that time but most likely not. So now it's time to record that second album and where's the material coming from? And even if there is new material for the next record, is it as good as the first. I think in many cases, it's not. That's the reality, isn't it?
It is indeed.
Sooooo true
yes indeed...
Ozzy followed up Blizzard with Diary so it can be done. But he had Rhoads and Dailey.....
That’s a stacked deck
The saying in the biz is you have years to write your first album, months to write the second one
oh ya!
That hair is rocking it
Rockin' Like Dokken
@@badbrad
:- D
lol
While I agree with you, there are exceptions to the rule (AC/DC, Fleetwood Mac, The Police, etc.) where their masterpieces didn’t come until a few albums into their career, but yes, you can hear the piss and vinegar in many of those debuts.
Bands like that benefited from their multi album development...
Pretty good philosophy here but I feel there are exceptions. Exile on Main Street and U2s the Joshua Tree would seem examples
Yeah Exile is an amazing album. Stones had some early success and enough albums on their contract that they could develop their sound. Perhaps the Beatles success....allowed the Stones to go from covering blues songs to learning how to write their own hits. Took them a while to find their sound.
Some bands have a sophomore slump, Van Halen never did, An album full of great songs that was recorded in 9 days..
Great album, great notoriously infamous tour... Van Halen took over in 1979... clearly no slump of any kind.
No they didn't....but I don't think they ever topped their debut.
Guns n Roses had one great album. I thought Fair Warning was a masterpiece from Edward. I think he had a lot of pent up frustration from what I read. Your are right about VHI being hard to match. Cool video!
VH1 is still the only VH album I can listen to beginning to end.
Thank you! Yeah Fair Warning is great!
Van Halen 2 rules ALL ya big goof!!!
Lighten up Francis.
GNR had a sophomore slump. Van Halen didn't have a sophomore slump .. 🤘🤘🤘🤘🤘🤘
Def. GnR.
What does it profit a person to gain the whole world and yet loose their soul...
Absolutely.
There can be only one master of puppets.
They never touched it again. But they had black.
Ajfa wasn't bad.
Some would argue kill em all..
Not everyone can be journey or steely.
Music is. Time in a bottle..
Queensryche.. Only one mindcrime. 2 was a flop Imo. But empire was awesome.
I'll never hearing queen of the ryche for the first time.
Growing up on Rush country bluegrass, traffic ,steely Dan, omg so many.
It’s an amazing world of music we have to listen to
I couldn't ever understand why GnR got such a push ? Who did they know ? Apparently Appetite was mostly complete in 1985ish club days. They needed Izzy who was very underrated.
Izzy was a huge part. I think GnR just hit at the right time… a lot of luck on their side.
@@badbrad how did they get that gig with the Stones ? I always have a guitar sitting around with open G ! Lol . Did you ever meet Warren Demartini or Jake ? Thanks for the cool stories buddy, I sit and watch with a pint just thinking how sweet the 80's were in L.A.
They got the gig with the stones and I was at night 2, because they were the hot young rock band at the time.
Aerosmith Get Your Wings was way better than the first album in my book. Wow, they had a run through Rocks and had a few nuggets after that.
That’s true but Aerosmith was given the chance to develop and develop they did.
One question some have is how much help was given to make AFD by various other musicians, producers. Did the band themselves really actually create the album. One might ask.
I think they did. It’s sloppy in all the right ways. Luck was on their side
A lot of bands don’t have that much to say to begin with.
True...
I don't know if I'd call Van Halen "hungry". Roth's dad was a doctor, and it doesn't sound like the Van Halen boys came from an underprivileged background either. They certainly weren't starving artists.
I don’t know being immigrants arriving in the country with about $20 bucks in their pocket….
I remember reading how their record deal in the early days was pretty shitty and they weren't making much money. When Sammy joined he was making more money as a solo artist. Sammy helped the guys negotiate their next deal and they started making way more.
The Black Crowes skipped their second record. They sounded like they made their 4th.
Yeah and didn’t they have quite a few lineup changes along the way?
100 percent
💯
Slipknot too! Don't think they're putting out anything now as good as the 1st two albums they had...
I’m not familiar with their discography but I believe it.
To me Van Halen is 1984, maybe cos I heard that first really. Guns n Roses Illusions albums could be one great album. Steven Adler made the Appetite groove. Illusions mixing/mastering is just bit too sterile.
Understand that. Yeah Appetite was like the perfect raw sounding album.
Playing hungry.
Yes!👍🏻
G'n'R Appetite had so much energy in the songs they could have recorded it with a boom box and it would have still been great! What are the cool kid saying these days? Garbage in garbage out?
You’re probably right.
@@badbrad With the "Garbage in garbage out" thing is... You could put a band in a million dollar studio with a 250k budget if the songs aren't there it's a waste of time. Iggy and the Stooges The Ramones recorded on a 4 track but the music was a!mazing "a little muffled" but it was there! you went to their gigs to the get the real deal.
I am going with the idea of you have until the age of 26, and that goes into the 27 club...
Probably right.
rage against the machine's first album is dynamite too
You mean Rage For The Machine? Those guys are complete frauds and Morello is a piece of shite 💉💉💉pusher…
I never got into them but I can imagine why the first one hits.
Metallica never put out a greatest hit's album. I was totally floored with funeral for a friend cover!
interesting choice
@@badbradMettalica does excellent cover songs.