Have you noticed any similar strange or funny design choices within your favorite interactive experiences? [ You can help support the channel on Patreon: www.patreon.com/skorvion ]
I've learned about this principle recently, they call it "Chekhov's Gun". As an analogy for fulfilling plot devices, if there is a gun on the wall in a story, must be fired by the end of the story, or it shouldn't be in the story at all.
I'm aware of it as well. It's a principle that can apply to all sorts of design decisions in games as well, with regard to the type of interactive experience that is being developed.
I never knew that those engineers are actually different from the ones you start the mission with. So considering that, I guess it all worked out from a player perspective lol. It's like "Just drop some additional engineers in case the original ones somehow get killed. Yeah it's bullshit but the player wont notice anyway." And I didnt.
It's a strange design choice, but might also be an oversight of some kind. The additional chinook dropping down more engineers can be attributed to the level designers wanting the scene to feel more alive with stuff happening to keep the player engaged and pushing forward for more. But as you can see, a quick glance to the previous area results in a bit of confusion.
They could of dropped you with riflemen and your objective is to clear out the area for the engineer drop. I also think that the second drop was added for action, I honestly can't make sense of the first two engineers
@@Rooistar That would have been a better approach, yes. The riflemen could have been killed in action-ey effect on the approach if that was a possible issue. There are many ways of executing this scene that would have fit in a bit better if they wanted to drop in the Engineers after the initial battle.
I remember playing Doom 3, Early on running into an ambush of enemies and thinking screw this and retreated and then got ambushed in a previously secured area. I was so impressed with the design, from being scared to frightened and never feeling safe.
@@SkorvionGames It was horror story telling at it's finest. I had never experienced backtracking mechanics executed so perfectly in a game before it was almost cinematic in a way. They knew I was going to run back and man did they have a surprise waiting for me
Play testing level design and analyzing how players think during gameplay can do wonders. So when you get the final product the game is ready for what you might do.
The general selected all his starting units and then pressed attack on the nearby enemy after moving enough to reveal them through the fog of war As engineers can't attack they stayed in place, the commando then went and done his job. The level designers didn't want the player getting stuck on the first mission so extra engineers get dropped in case the first ones died and then the general just decided to use those ones because they were closer. There was no use to move the other engineers any further or again and so the general decided to continue the mission without them
@@Rooistar That's a fun way of looking at things, as C&C is primarily an RTS. Fits in with the game's nature rather than looking at it realistically. Nice one!
This video felt a little short. It had exactly one point, presented precisely, yes; but I'd expect a video form assay to at least gather a few things to say.
This wasn't meant to be an expansive essay, but rather an example of something people might easily miss coupled with a bit of relevant humor. I just wanted to get this one little idea out there with this one. Additionally, I don't think building awareness always requires investigative complexity, although this topic could always expand into subjects like development studio constraints, the influence of budget/time on project scope, adequate QA, intended creative direction, involved gameplay mechanics... and so on. I tend to look at videos on the channel as building blocks, so hopefully over time they will complement each other in such cases where something isn't covered that completely, per your implication. At the moment, we're still in an early stage. Experimenting with different video formats is something I'm looking into as well. Hope that clears it up a little bit. Also, thank you! I understand your view and appreciate the useful input!
@@SkorvionGames I really appreciate all the effort you put into these videos. I have no idea how extensive the work is but I'm sure it takes time, I personally prefer any content than having to wait for longer projects Soon enough you will find your guys perfect groove, currently you guys have potential to take this so many places, so it is good that you are experimenting I have no idea how it works, but I like the structure of how you are naming your vids, although smart I am not sure if it works well with youtube searches, I was lucky to find your channel but I don't know how easy it will be for someone interested in your insight to find it, food for thought but I am sure you have everything covered. As always much respect
@Jesse Harran Thank you once again! Each video takes up many hours of my free time to finish up. Unfortunately, I often experience freezing and crashes during the process and am limited with what I can pull off right now due to hardware constraints, but I love the process so I'm moving forward with what I have available. It's currently just me (AZ) doing all the work with a little bit of help on the side. I see great potential with the work I'm doing here and have a lot to aim for, but considering I don't have the needed resources yet it's going to be a bit of a workaround-ish ride for now. A good example is this video. What you probably can't notice is that a lot of the footage is sort-of-salvaged footage to begin with - when recording Renegade my computer couldn't handle it properly, so there was a lot of stuttering and frame rate drops. I had to re-record even simple scenes and try to hold still so that the gameplay would play out in a visually acceptable way. It's not ideal, but I have to work with what I have and do my best to keep it up to my quality standards. Regarding the video titles, I don't want to create clickbait titles or sacrifice content integrity to reach a wider audience. I do however understand the importance of video discoverability and am taking steps on that note (+ educating myself quite often). My inspirational review videos are the primary "magnetized" content, while regular uploads remain a bit more free from all that, as it stands right now. I feel good about how things look right now, and that keeps me motivated.
@@SkorvionGames @Skorvion Games I respect your choice to keep the integrity of your naming schemes, they cool Life is strange, I believe in such thing as divine timing, and things are more synchronised than coincidental. It's never ideal to have to resort to work-aroundish solutions. That's really cool having to come up with clever ways to get what you are after, I am sure that it has been a journey I can confidently say that I am sure you have learnt things that no school can teach by having to use your current tools. If you can already work around something then I imagine you will hit the ground running once you are able to work through it I am glad to hear about your passion and set goals. It is also good to see you working on it as much as you are
Certain forms of synchronicity are not an unknown subject to me. Whatever limitations I have to work with right now might be needed to facilitate and/or strengthen something going forward, so I'm taking it as a hidden opportunity. It's not the lack of resources that I should be worried about, but a lack of resourcefulness on my part to get some minimum required key work done regardless of current temporary limitations. With that at play, I should be able to overcome everything to some useful degree.
It's almost as if the first two engineers have social anxiety. We see them half wanting to join the party but just not being able to. Nice find, I'm sure this specific game has plenty of such occurrences. Not a bad job considering it was made by RTS guys though I wish for a patch with better AI and some more excitement on the longer quieter sections as on mission four, could add more enemies for example not too much is needed but it can be in such a way that there are more action sequences than quiet moments. Such a patch could really make the game a new and really enjoyable experience, I think those were the only two faults I could find with the game otherwise I did enjoy it. If you had to notice the engineers idling on your first playthrough, because it is so early in the game it could leave a terrible first impression and puts the game in a difficult position to win you back
Game development can be very tricky. And with so many different factors to weigh in sometimes the end result isn't what you were hoping for. Given time and ongoing thoughtful development, such mishaps can always be remedied in one way or another. But as we already know, time isn't always in plentiful supply.
@@SkorvionGames Yes, especially since usually so many people are working under so many different departments it must be tricky to keep the production smooth and tight
It's different with small teams compared to big companies, but what we can always agree on is that game development is a complex technical art, more so than most people think at first.
Have you noticed any similar strange or funny design choices within your favorite interactive experiences?
[ You can help support the channel on Patreon: www.patreon.com/skorvion ]
I've learned about this principle recently, they call it "Chekhov's Gun". As an analogy for fulfilling plot devices, if there is a gun on the wall in a story, must be fired by the end of the story, or it shouldn't be in the story at all.
I'm aware of it as well. It's a principle that can apply to all sorts of design decisions in games as well, with regard to the type of interactive experience that is being developed.
I never knew that those engineers are actually different from the ones you start the mission with. So considering that, I guess it all worked out from a player perspective lol.
It's like "Just drop some additional engineers in case the original ones somehow get killed. Yeah it's bullshit but the player wont notice anyway." And I didnt.
It's a strange design choice, but might also be an oversight of some kind. The additional chinook dropping down more engineers can be attributed to the level designers wanting the scene to feel more alive with stuff happening to keep the player engaged and pushing forward for more. But as you can see, a quick glance to the previous area results in a bit of confusion.
They could of dropped you with riflemen and your objective is to clear out the area for the engineer drop. I also think that the second drop was added for action, I honestly can't make sense of the first two engineers
@@Rooistar That would have been a better approach, yes. The riflemen could have been killed in action-ey effect on the approach if that was a possible issue. There are many ways of executing this scene that would have fit in a bit better if they wanted to drop in the Engineers after the initial battle.
I remember playing Doom 3, Early on running into an ambush of enemies and thinking screw this and retreated and then got ambushed in a previously secured area. I was so impressed with the design, from being scared to frightened and never feeling safe.
It's always good to see some thought put into some backtracking-aware mechanics like that instead of just pushing forward.
@@SkorvionGames It was horror story telling at it's finest. I had never experienced backtracking mechanics executed so perfectly in a game before it was almost cinematic in a way. They knew I was going to run back and man did they have a surprise waiting for me
Play testing level design and analyzing how players think during gameplay can do wonders. So when you get the final product the game is ready for what you might do.
they were sent on a mission without an objective
Well they certainly didn't show much initiative out there.
The general selected all his starting units and then pressed attack on the nearby enemy after moving enough to reveal them through the fog of war
As engineers can't attack they stayed in place, the commando then went and done his job. The level designers didn't want the player getting stuck on the first mission so extra engineers get dropped in case the first ones died and then the general just decided to use those ones because they were closer. There was no use to move the other engineers any further or again and so the general decided to continue the mission without them
@@Rooistar That's a fun way of looking at things, as C&C is primarily an RTS. Fits in with the game's nature rather than looking at it realistically. Nice one!
Oh my god I never noticed them. I love that end part though with Havoc quotes.
Haha, thanks! :D
It's already 10 years and i just notice that. LOL
Well, now you know and can never unsee it!
This video felt a little short. It had exactly one point, presented precisely, yes; but I'd expect a video form assay to at least gather a few things to say.
This wasn't meant to be an expansive essay, but rather an example of something people might easily miss coupled with a bit of relevant humor. I just wanted to get this one little idea out there with this one. Additionally, I don't think building awareness always requires investigative complexity, although this topic could always expand into subjects like development studio constraints, the influence of budget/time on project scope, adequate QA, intended creative direction, involved gameplay mechanics... and so on.
I tend to look at videos on the channel as building blocks, so hopefully over time they will complement each other in such cases where something isn't covered that completely, per your implication. At the moment, we're still in an early stage. Experimenting with different video formats is something I'm looking into as well. Hope that clears it up a little bit. Also, thank you! I understand your view and appreciate the useful input!
@@SkorvionGames I really appreciate all the effort you put into these videos. I have no idea how extensive the work is but I'm sure it takes time, I personally prefer any content than having to wait for longer projects
Soon enough you will find your guys perfect groove, currently you guys have potential to take this so many places, so it is good that you are experimenting
I have no idea how it works, but I like the structure of how you are naming your vids, although smart I am not sure if it works well with youtube searches, I was lucky to find your channel but I don't know how easy it will be for someone interested in your insight to find it, food for thought but I am sure you have everything covered. As always much respect
@Jesse Harran Thank you once again! Each video takes up many hours of my free time to finish up. Unfortunately, I often experience freezing and crashes during the process and am limited with what I can pull off right now due to hardware constraints, but I love the process so I'm moving forward with what I have available.
It's currently just me (AZ) doing all the work with a little bit of help on the side. I see great potential with the work I'm doing here and have a lot to aim for, but considering I don't have the needed resources yet it's going to be a bit of a workaround-ish ride for now. A good example is this video. What you probably can't notice is that a lot of the footage is sort-of-salvaged footage to begin with - when recording Renegade my computer couldn't handle it properly, so there was a lot of stuttering and frame rate drops. I had to re-record even simple scenes and try to hold still so that the gameplay would play out in a visually acceptable way. It's not ideal, but I have to work with what I have and do my best to keep it up to my quality standards.
Regarding the video titles, I don't want to create clickbait titles or sacrifice content integrity to reach a wider audience. I do however understand the importance of video discoverability and am taking steps on that note (+ educating myself quite often). My inspirational review videos are the primary "magnetized" content, while regular uploads remain a bit more free from all that, as it stands right now. I feel good about how things look right now, and that keeps me motivated.
@@SkorvionGames @Skorvion Games I respect your choice to keep the integrity of your naming schemes, they cool
Life is strange, I believe in such thing as divine timing, and things are more synchronised than coincidental. It's never ideal to have to resort to work-aroundish solutions. That's really cool having to come up with clever ways to get what you are after, I am sure that it has been a journey
I can confidently say that I am sure you have learnt things that no school can teach by having to use your current tools. If you can already work around something then I imagine you will hit the ground running once you are able to work through it
I am glad to hear about your passion and set goals. It is also good to see you working on it as much as you are
Certain forms of synchronicity are not an unknown subject to me. Whatever limitations I have to work with right now might be needed to facilitate and/or strengthen something going forward, so I'm taking it as a hidden opportunity. It's not the lack of resources that I should be worried about, but a lack of resourcefulness on my part to get some minimum required key work done regardless of current temporary limitations. With that at play, I should be able to overcome everything to some useful degree.
It's almost as if the first two engineers have social anxiety. We see them half wanting to join the party but just not being able to. Nice find, I'm sure this specific game has plenty of such occurrences. Not a bad job considering it was made by RTS guys though
I wish for a patch with better AI and some more excitement on the longer quieter sections as on mission four, could add more enemies for example not too much is needed but it can be in such a way that there are more action sequences than quiet moments. Such a patch could really make the game a new and really enjoyable experience, I think those were the only two faults I could find with the game otherwise I did enjoy it.
If you had to notice the engineers idling on your first playthrough, because it is so early in the game it could leave a terrible first impression and puts the game in a difficult position to win you back
Game development can be very tricky. And with so many different factors to weigh in sometimes the end result isn't what you were hoping for. Given time and ongoing thoughtful development, such mishaps can always be remedied in one way or another. But as we already know, time isn't always in plentiful supply.
@@SkorvionGames Yes, especially since usually so many people are working under so many different departments it must be tricky to keep the production smooth and tight
It's different with small teams compared to big companies, but what we can always agree on is that game development is a complex technical art, more so than most people think at first.
Do you play renegade online?
Occasionally, yes. I'm more into other W3D Hub games than vanilla Renegade.