SOMETIME IN NEW YORK CITY Album Review with JOHN HEATON |
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- Опубліковано 28 вер 2024
- Guest John Heaton joins Matt of Pop Goes the 60s to review John Lennon (and Yoko Ono's) album Sometime In New York City.
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I have to admit...as I sit here in retirement, though forced into it by my invalidity, sitting in a chair and amusing yourself far from all the pressures you have endured in life can be quite pleasant...I have never blamed John for enjoying whatever he wanted to do after all he had given me for 20 years! Thanks for this...and for the best quality original content on YT!
I appreciate the support, William. Much thanks.
Regarding "best quality original content on UA-cam" this is pretty good i agree; you might also like "America's Untold Stories" for great original content even though its far more about US history than music - i think the hosts of this show and America's Untold Stories would have a great time talking to each other ! www.youtube.com/@AmericasUntoldStories/videos
Sometime in New York City was nothing more than junk masquerading as radical art. With the Beatles, Lennon produced some of the most innovative/ecstatic/transformative music of the 20th century, and was a part of a pre-eminent social/cultural phenomenon that defined/acted as both transmitters and receivers of the turbulent cultural changes that occurred post Paris '68. When he left the Beatles he became a solipsistic bore, with his twin partner in mediocrity Yoko Ono. His solo albums and especially 'Imagine' are so worthless with little merit that they give the word bathos a bad name.
Lennon was always conflicted about his role as a cutting edge "artist" in a world of stultifying mainstream popular culture. He was the archetypal petit bourgeois, who romanticised the mythic nobility of working class values, who was distrustful, yet drawn to the world of bourgeois bohemian high art, further enhanced by his association with Yoko Ono. The irony was once Lennon became self consciously an "artist" it allowed him to indulge in the worst excesses of the avant-garde, something he affected to despise a few years earlier with his claim that avant-garde was just another name for bullshit - see Bagism, Bed-In, Unfinished Music No.1: Two Virgins and Revolution 9 (which I've always had a soft spot for), which has for better or worst has become a Stalinist cultural orthodoxy in the world of contemporary conceptual art. No surprise that one of the leading charlatans in the YBA's - Sam Taylor-Wood - was drawn to directing the Lennon biopic 'Nowhere Boy.'
The irony only increased once Lennon legitimized the avant-garde in popular culture, which saw him distanced from the same working class - who loved his earlier incarnation/work - he sought to represent. They saw Lennon as nothing more than a drug addled weirdo whose concerns had little to do with their lives. Lennon's maximum impact outside a small coterie of radical chic hipsters was always when he wrote songs for the "common man," record sales would bear this out.
Furthermore for those of us who were a part of the counterculture it seemed that once Lennon embarked on his self conscious role of revolutionary avant-gardist he always appeared to be one step behind the rapid changes taking place in contemporary culture. Witness Lennon clinging to the peace and love vibe from the previous year's 'Summer of Love' for dear life in '68, when all around him the Western world was in flames metaphorically and literally - the King and Kennedy assassinations, Paris 68, race war, Siege of Chicago, Grosvenor Square Riots, Vietnam War protests, Prague Spring et al. A perfect illustration of Lennon's confusion at this turbulent juncture was the debacle over whether the lyrics in Revolution should read "you can count me in" or "count me out." As is well known Lennon was taken to task over this by none other than Tariq Ali in the Trotskyist journal Black Dwarf. The last thing bloodied and battered radical youth needed, was one of their self indulgent cultural icons telling them to "like change your head man?!!!" Even those radical chic whores the Stones were more in tune and captured the zeitgeist of 68/69 more effectively with Sympathy For The Devil, Street Fighting and Gimme Shelter. Bertolt Brecht or Dylan, Lennon was not.
To make it clear that although I appear highly critical of Lennon I still regard him as a towering cultural figure of the 20th Century and a music genius, that he was a deeply flawed human being only adds to his greatness.
Or as Dylan once remarked "The trouble with John is he gives too much away, he's too transparent." I would argue that was both his strength and weakness.
Thanks by the way Matt, your music channel is my go to on UA-cam, erudite/analytical always entertaining. Almost all the music you have reviewed - which I love with continued fascination, especially the Byrds - sound tracked my coming of age in London in the mid 60's & my subsequent art school days later in the decade. You should do a piece on two of my favourite bands Arthur Lee/Love and Syd Barrett's Pink Floyd(not post Barrett Floyd who I loathed) who I saw play many times as a 17 year old hippie girl at the UFO London's premier psychedelic club and the countercultures coming out party in '67 the 14 Hour Technicolour Dream Festival at which Yoko Ono and Lennon put in an appearance.
Apologies once again for the length of my comment.
No need to apologize for length. Your quality shows through. Even those who lived through the late 60s-early 70s don't seem so know what was going on world wide. I had a commenter today suggest that my negative critique of this album was groundless because "I didn't live through it." This is just the sort of drivel one must navigate through to offer some honest opinion that, though critical and negative, is much needed.
I'm not sure Lennon legitimized the "avant-garde" as he popularized it, and in doing so, neutered it. Working Class Hero? No, Upper Class Elitist. One must understand that Ono's father, a banker, had far more money than the Beatles (according to Ono herself) and Lennon wasn't really in touch with middle America during this time (Hoffman and Rubin hardly count). The 1972 US Presidential election says it all - Lennon & Ono probably moved the needle in the opposite direction they intended. That is the takeaway many Lennon fans can't comprehend or want to accept.
I love that you were at the 14 Hour Technicolor Dream Fest - what a time that must have been! I am already working on a video on Love but i don't expect that out til next year. This will take some care. I saw Love live in about 2004 and they were really good. The Barrett-era Floyd will be down the line ...my remaining list will take 10 years or so to complete, so I will enjoy the ride. Much thanks for your support.
Very much enjoyed reading your post. As someone who also was around and "on the bus" at the time, I can tell the difference between sincerity and revisionist bullshit. (no Matt, I don't mean you)
Nicely done. ✌
@@jeffclement2468 I appreciate the comments, Jeff! Thank you.
But his background really was working class, wasn't it? Not so the Stones. Right? It's never occurred to me the Revolution from the White Album was not of its time (as well as for all time.) It's a novel thing for me to consider. I kind of think of it as an internal dialog and not as a directive. Not trying to argue, just thinking aloud. Love and early Pink Floyd are two of my favorite bands too!
Agreed. "John Lennon" never wrote another great song, once Yoko finished sucking Joh'ns brains out and replacing his personality with her own. This album is dreck.
Classic review/discussion I'm glad to watch it again. The takes the two of you have are varied and unique to your tastes, love it.
Thanks for the re=watch, Gonzo!
My original UK copy (a 1972 birthday present) has 'Lennon/Ono - Nov. 1971' for Luck of the Irish not 1972.
The inner black sleeve doesn't have the 'Fit to Die' army ad, it's plain black on the reverse, so guess that was pulled for the UK release. Did come with the postcard though.
Some terrific Spector production work on Woman and Sunday.
I only really listen to 6 tracks these days, the 2 above plus Attica State, NYC, Cold Turkey (edited) and Well (one of Lennon''s best live vocals and great Zappa guitar solo).
I have discontinued following this site due to the comments you made about Yoko Ono on this posting. I have all of Yoko's recorded material, & have cared for her recorded work ever since I heard it in 1974 (not counting Happy Xmas War Is Over, the 1971 duet). Ono is a conceptual artist, & you have to understand that to understand her musical work, be it successful or not.
I find it pathetic that some fans have such thin skin that they can't handle mild criticism of one of their heroes. No one is beyond criticism and just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean they don't understand it. How patronizing and elitist of you, Mike.
Dylan moved back to the village round '69/'70 after chilling out in Woodstock for a couple of years. He probably began to miss the village vibe, and was looking for new inspiration.
Hi John Hi Matt, a couple of comments.. i remember buying Sometime in NYC when it first came out. At that time John and Yoko were becoming more aware that they had a much more far reaching message and opportunity to help with political change.. As regards Luck Of the Irish, John Lennon's grandparents were both born in Dublin. Yoko, one might argue was actually more aware of living in the world politic being born in Tokyo and also a conceptual artist way before meeting John. Yoko, (and john) clearly knows the fairy tale side of Irish legend and Celtic influence. Her side/contribution to "The Luck of the Irish" is obviously meant to be of poignant, of good cheer, even childlike. John's is the folk troubadour bard singing a lament. That said, i usually enjoy these interviews so thank you. I think you had to be there though to get it. -I think your slightly missing the point of John's message then and clearly Yoko's counterpoint voice of irony in this song. Here's what i mean: ua-cam.com/video/zRXiz8_5F6g/v-deo.html Imagine if John and Yoko were still here today. now that I think of it of course they still are! Peace and Love to you Yoko. Don't underestimate Yoko please..Best, -doug
Thank you for commenting, Doug. I never underestimate Ono and I may do some future videos illustrating her powers and musical contribution, when without John, she is much more effective.
As well as owning the original vinyl LP, I also have the 2005 CD remix by Paul Hicks which removed all the Zappa stuff except Well, and added Happy Xmas and Listen the Snow is Falling.
That's enough for me
I look at Sometime In New York not as a Lennon album but more akin to Unfinished Music 1:Two Virgins, Unfinished Music 2: Life With The Lion, The Wedding Album, and Plastic Ono Band Live In Toronto. Not to be grouped with his more mainstream Canon.
In fact, if taken in this light Sometime In New York is the most user friendly of the non mainstream Lennon.
When I got through this album a couple of years ago I wasn't expecting preferring Yoko's songs to John's. (I've read some nice things about Fly and Approximately Infinite Universe, but I haven't yet checked them out.)
Start with AIU. There are some really engaging moments on that record.
…another thing to note is this album and that whole period of Lennon’s musical life ended or when he separated from YOKO and took off out of that environment . Also he NEVER worked with this group of musicians after this in his subsequent albums, MIND GAMES, WALLS and BRIDGES etc…where he used session players so if he though that much of this political and musical style HE NEVER went back to it really after 1972.
The Irish potato famine is widely talked about in terms of genocide, so there's also that. I don't think Lennon was making a "stretch" here.
It was an underrated album, as were all the Beatkes individual solo alkbums. I was in high school then and see it in contect. It was a time when there was soimething doe everyone... I loved the Beatles solo albums but hated the Carpenters music (not Karen;s voice). People close to me say, how can you not like the Carpenters? But who cares, since the early 70s were a unique time. Try putting out this album now... John would be SLAMMED for racism and offending everyone in some way.
He was slammed then for offending one Suzie Cream cheese or another, and he would be these days. That's why we love him.
Drugs and John is a subject hardly ever talked about! Very Strange! Thanks for a very interesting discussion. Thx.
Great review, much of these less impactful solo releases by the F4 I won't invest time in, but I learn a lot listening to your review releases! 🤯
Finally made it through your video about STINYC the result of John and Yoko's adrenaline rush they felt on moving to New York released just 8 months after the massively successful 'Imagine' LP. Made some notes along the way.
The main reason "Woman Is The N" didn't chart well was it was banned by radio. To get to 50 whatever was a good performance in the circumstances. I think it's a great track, a brave statement with a big Spector production and a coda too.
I first got to know it on the 'Shaved Fish' album.
Re Yoko so-called out-producing John at one stage, who cares? You do know that if she hadn't become John Lennon's girlfriend we'd never have heard of her or her terrible attempts at music. As a Beatles fan I find her irrelevant and skip her songs. That said 'Every Man Has A Woman...' was half-reasonable. She is the main problem with STINYC and why it bombed.
John was saying the Irish have had terrible luck in their dealings with the English (in his opinion). So bad in fact that they might feel they'd be better off dead such was their suffering, eg the potato famine, forced evictions, massacres by Black & Tan troops.
Don't like the dropping the live LP idea. The 'Cold Turkey' performance we get kicks ass it rocks so hard. I think it's brilliant and didn't even notice Yoko's wailing, and it's more accessible than the harrowing single version which is brilliant in its own way but very heavy for some. "Well' too is an excellent track with Zappa on guitar. The rest is just freak-out stuff with too much Yoko. John still had the urge to shock I think after the commerciality of "Imagine".
I think they messed up the credits for the LP. 'Jamrag' was supposed to be Lennon-Ono-Zappa and 'Scumbag" Lennon-Ono but they got them the wrong way round. Yeah and John probably didn't know Jamrag was an existing track...just thought they were jamming. Scumbag might also be half-decent - it rocks hard - if they'd included ex-Turtle Howard Kaylan's vocals. John must've not liked "Yoko's in a scumbag". It does get a bit repetitive!
The repeating "got to's" in 'John Sinclair were surely a joke to fool the listener to think the record was stuck. They don't bother me.
There are demos by John of 'Angela' prototypes called JJ and 'People" originally broadcast on the Lost Lennon Tapes. These are fantastic, especially 'People' which I managed to find on youtube, and need to be on any STINYC re-issue.
m.my.mail.ru/mail/kolos.l/video/206/332.html
Taking a break from recording and doing something different with his life is not a terrible idea and doesn't mean he'd dried up.
There are lots and lots of songs John was working on in the Dakota late 70s period that didn't get released in his lifetime.
Some have been released posthumously... the likes of 'Real Love' and 'Free As A Bird", 'Help Me To Help Myself" and on his Anthology in 1998 and some still officially unreleased (but on Lost Lennon Tapes which is how we know them). His demos were often better than the final product. See link below.
ua-cam.com/video/j1MsUhvAWck/v-deo.html
I could go on.
I don't think Elton had much to do with the success of ' Whatever Gets You Thru The Night". His voice hampers the record because we don't hear Lennon's voice clearly (on a John Lennon song).
No way known should STINYC have permanently impaired his career or whatever it was you said, as it was coming 8 months after song-for-song one of the best albums of all time "Imagine" and equally so before then POB... and oh yeah before that The Beatles.
Thanks for the video!
Not my favorite, though I place it above his "Rock and Roll" album. "New York City" was by far the best single on the album.
Somewhat ironic isn't it...that John's tribute to his favorite musical genre was turned into this overproduced dreck. There was a process of recording then where they plugged in directly to the board, consequently eliminating any sense of atmosphere or room noise/ambience. Excellent song choices of course, I just wish it hadn't been recorded that way.
Woman is the N***** of the World .
That song ANNOUNCES the style of the album.
Personally I loved it .
I can see why other people would see it a overly politicised album .Elephants Memory Band ? Great backing band , and I loved the live album although I did find out about the " scandal " later on .
All in all I really enjoyed the album .
My least favorite 'proper' Lennon album. Too overly political for my taste and with a general lack of proper tunes. IMHO the whole album could do with a proper remix. Many tracks sound too trebly and lack proper bass, especially New York City.
You can polish a turd, but it will still be a turd.
@@catsofsherman1316 Agree, but it will at least be less inlistenable.
Regarding the cover art - I'd say SOME TIME sold better in the UK back then because shoppers thought they were picking up the new JETHRO TULL album instead of......
Could very well be! Thanks Farrell.
🌄 thanks
John had that "I feel guilty and unworthy of being rich"
Like he did from 1963 onwards?
12:45 made me laugh too hard
Fillmore East content except for track BABY DON'T GO (should be deyoko-ized)
Could be lost along with side 2
LIVE PEACE IN TORONTO ---- So actually Sometime NYC could've been a decent single album.
exciting stuff ...what next? where is this album, its been hidden
I thought the 50th Anniversary Super Duper Deluxe Box set would be out by now! Did the Lennon estate cancel themselves? Lord Heaton and I tackle a George album next.
@@popgoesthe60s52 Lennon estate were DYING to release it but politics right now will have dictated its quiet tip toe away from 2022 (eek LAWYERS!)
@@invisibleray6987 I agree. The Lennon estate is practical if not modest.
I agree with Matt, this is certainly the WORST LENNON solo album , possibly the worst Beatle full solo album. I am not counting Two VIRGINS or things like Electronic Sounds by Harrison . The only song I really like on it is NEW YORK CITY….the political element-predictably naive nonsense. I think I still have it on vinyl..I bought it when it came out. That whole Lennon “political period” just does not stand up artistically , just not good art no matter what his viewpoint was. The single POWER TO THE PEOPLE was another bad piece of junk from that period.I hold Lennon to the highest standards so Yeah WORST ALBUM in Beatle canon….granted a lot of Ringo albums I have never even listened to from the 80’s so I guess maybe that’s not fair!
I´m sorry, although I like several of the songs quite a bit (Woman is the n. , NYC, John Sinclair, Cold Turkey, Well ...) I simply cannot get over the really aweful voice of Yoko, it´s a pain in the ear ... I praise the programmable CD-players and MP3 ... here I can program to play only the songs sung by Lennon ... This fault is also present on Double Fantasy and Milk and Honey ... I wish John´s songs are on one side and Yokos on the other ... no right intonation, no quality in the voice ... unbearable for me ...
Born in a Prison is simply awful. The live version at Madison Square Garden was even worse. "See you in the prison, mates" (really stupid) - John, I really loved that reference to "Buttercup" - I NEVER made that connection and yet I can't unhear it now 😅
Sorry to the fans, but this still remains after many decades, virtually unlistenable beyond 2-3 tracks (and I am feeling charitable here). When one thinks of all the fantastic music that was emerging in 1971-1972, really exciting stuff that had something to say or pushed the envelope in exciting musical directions, this album feels downright cringeworthy. Bad enough Lennon had to tie himself to the most cliched of Yippie politics (much of which was already discredited even then, let alone now), worse still that he resorted to the most cliched jingoism to do so. His gift for melody abandons him here, what passes for "rock" is muddy and unfocused (Elephant's Memory shares some blame there, but I can't really say the album is their fault), and this album really casts a pall over his later work, which is unfortunate because most of it is a lot better. This album should be remembered as a textbook in what NOT to do with your music career. The worst albums by McCartney, or the Rolling Stones, or the Who, or the Kinks, or anyone you can name are masterpieces in comparison.
You really nailed it. What other band/artist of significance has an album as pathetic and arrogant as this one? Unfortunately, the people with the loudest voices are the ones that prop this album up simply because they are Lennon worshipers. It is rather obvious (to anyone with an open mind) that this album might be a tad pedantic, self-absorbed, elitist, and trendy - all of which are rational criticisms. But here on TubeYou it is the norm to bully such critiques, when in reality the critiques are on the mild side of honest. Thank you for the comment.
Lennon was said that he would have voted for Ronald Reagan!!!
Not true, he was being cheeky. I believe the comment came from Fred Seaman, an assistant who ripped off John and Yoko and was convicted. Not true. He was invited to the White House by Jimmy Carter and they knew each other. He would have supported Jimmy Carter. Bob Dylan and Willie Nelson and the Allman Brothers were all friends with President Carter.
Once again Matt is way off base with his un-needed musical negativity in music he personally dislikes - or "hates", using his word - he wasn't even born when this classic album was released so he has no idea what the political (and general) atmosphere was back then - in fact no gen exer or millennial would or could understand. This was (and is) a wonderful raw effort with the great Elephants Memory band as backup! It was meant to be angry and raw. To be fair I do agree that in places Yoko's vocal dissidence (yep, "wailing") mars some parts of this album. (To be completely honest I still blame Yoko as a major player in the breakup of The Beatles). ...Sorry Matt but you display little credibility when it comes to reviewing albums which came into the world before you did. I'm still trying to figure out why you picked the 60's decade music to review - you might do better (and have more subscribers) by reviewing the music of your lifetime (maybe you "hate" it). Anyway, we do need to remember that Matt is just one in a long line of album reviewers who have embarrased themselves through the age of rock and roll and rock by slamming an album which went on to become a classic. Thanks to John Heaton for tempering the conversation.
So we can't have an opinion on the Civil War, the French Revolution, the Roaring 20s because some of us weren't there? This is a straw man argument, Bill. Why don't you address the points I made in the video: poor lyrics, banal melodies, old news topics, etc? I can't like everything and I have no problem offering an honest opinion, which is backed up with rationale. By the way, I was "in the world" when this was released. John and I are relatively the same age, so why does he have credibility and I don't?
There are no universal truths here, just opinions. Matt has an opinion here, I agree with him (as would many) and it's just as valid as anyone else's. If you have a different opinion, that's your opinion and that's fine too. Just because you don't agree with Matt doesn't mean "he's way off base". I think he's right! :)
You are the one who is way off base here.
@@popgoesthe60s52 Matt, the original poster’s comments are idiotic. Who cares that he has fond teenage memories of listening to this album while daydreaming about a girl in math class? That doesn’t make him the authority on rating it musically. In fact, I’d say it has impaired his ability to review this pile of garbage objectively.
Keep calling out the straw man arguments. More importantly, keep your great reviews coming.
@@davidm7840 Thank you, David. I don't mind if someone loves this album. Them loving it is not offensive to me, so why would my not liking it be offensive to them? Because they are emotionally immature, rendering them unable to have an adult conversation about the topic. I appreciate the comments, David.
John is a nice guy but too much of a fan boy to be objective about John Lennon in my opinion.
I must stick up for John here. Compared to the TubeYou norm, John is quite reasoned and balanced. He may have a blind spot for Lennon, but compared to the regular fanboys, he is a breath of fresh air! I appreciate the comments, kilgoring.
Lousy album. Truly the nadir of Lennon's career apart from the noise experiments. I'm with Matt on this one. The Stones wrote "who wants yesterday's papers? Nobody in the world". That sentiment seems to be apt for this album as well. Elephant's Memory was a sloppy pedestrian band. John could have hired anybody. He was being taken advantage of by Rubin and Hoffman. John lost a lot of his mojo after the split with the fabs. May be an unpopular opinion, but I believe it. Needless to say, I will not be purchasing any deluxe box set of this album.
I actually think your and my opinion are the popular ones. Negative opinions of the fabs often get bullied into submission from over emotional fans which is why so many youtubers include "apologies" along with their reviews. Not here. Thanks for commenting, Cats!
@@popgoesthe60s52 I agree Lennon was being taken advantage of by Rubin, Hoffman, and others. I wouldn't say he lost his mojo, other then "Some Time" because Plastic Ono Band, Imagine, Mind Games and Walls & Bridges were strong, enjoyable albums. Double Fantasy was a bit weak, but he had been away from recording and writing for 5 years and if not for his senseless murder, he would have gotten further back on his musical feet and resumed producing stronger material.
Great show Matt. And I agree with you 100% on the album song to song. I got the album when I was 14. Me and my friends listen to it. We were so disappointed on the second disc that we took it outside and played frisbee with it till it smashed into piece’s. Lol. Of course I wouldn’t do that today. Hmmm maybe.
At least you got some use out of the second disc!
@@popgoesthe60s52 lol. Yes we did. You know, if you get just the right angle you can make those babies fly. 👍
@@markwestervelt9708 With the right amount of heat and careful supervision, they can also be baked into something resembling an ashtray or candy dish. 😝
I loved this album; a lot of people didn't but I thought it was amazing. Very political.
What's Going On by Marvin Gaye is a much better political album by far, but I think John and Yoko had their hearts in the right place.
After all, who is going to speak out against what is right and is wrong?
Yo momma??
🤔
Marvin Gaye said it much more eloquently and understatedly. God rest his soul.
Almost nothing holds up to the standard of socio- political/ecological commentary that Marvin created on that masterpiece. ✌
Thanks for this video Matt. Now I'll never have to listen to it! Unless if they release a 50th Anniversary Deluxe 10 cd version and you and John have a listening party live, well maybe then! Interesting video. Great job Matt and John.
Not a great album but I will definitely buy the 50th anniversary box set whenever that comes out. I look at it as a time capsule, not dated, like Matt said. I also agree with how John first viewed the album, it is interesting. I like Tex Gabriel’s gritty lead guitar throughout. I do find the live stuff with Zappa to be trash. It contains some the worst material tied to a solo Beatle ever!
Musically it wasn’t a great album; the politics were fashionable at the time for rich white people living in GV, NY at the time (and still today for that matter). Cold Turkey is a pretty good song tho
I think it's a fine album.
Not his best, but a brave album nonetheless.
John Heaton wins!
Yay!!
"John Sinclair" may be the best piece I've ever heard performed on the slide guitar, and the message was one I would think we would all welcome. Lennon was so far ahead of his time. 50 years later, and millions of Americans are still trying to get marijuana legalized in dozens of U.S. States.
Loved "john sinclair" from the 1st time i heard it and still do today
Even if you disregard the politics, this is a dreadful record. Woman is the N**** is an absolute embarrassment, which has awful over-production and it lasts an eternity. The entire album exposed the very worst of Lennon in terms of melodies, lyrics and arrangements. It wrecked his credibility as a commercial artist, showing almost complete contempt for the buying public. This record can't be rehabilitated- ignore this and try Mind Games instead. On a positive note, the Lindsay-Hogg movie is well worth watching.
Agreed. This album is horrid from every possible angle: preachy politics, banal songs, childish lyrics, poor timing, artistically immature, a trend-following. I view the album the same way I view the election of the same year: a landslide disaster. Thanks for watching, Paul.
Sorry…just a seriously sloppy album, song-wise and production-wise
I don't have this album, but I would much sooner buy it than Two Virgins, The Wedding Album or Life With The Lions.
Lousy halfbaked songs rather than no real songs at all.
😄😄I've had all those albums - wedding Album stinks and Life with the Lions was boring, but Two Virgins and Some Time in New York City are funny in spots (unintentionally, yes, but still funny in spots).
I'm a full on Lennon fangirl but Life with.. is unbearable.
Two virgins has all the hits...
Ha, I have loved "John Sinclair", "We're All Water" and Sisters Oh Sisters" for 42 years! I don't play this album often (I own several thousand) but when it's on I enjoy it.
I think the album is decent without the live disc but is pretty inexcusable and unlistenable with it. It is definitely my least favourite of John's post Beatles albums but I don't think it is bad - I still enjoy listening to it but rarely do.
If you're gonna try to change the world, you're gonna rub some people the wrong way. The Lennons knew that, and did it anyway. They fearlessly stood up to the power structure to try to shape a better world. This album presents the clearest example of their hopes for tolerance, equality and understanding. No wonder it scared the shit out of Nixon!
My brother bought this on release and we played it a lot then. I don't listen to it at all now but thoroughly enjoyed it at the time; it felt fresh and vital.
Wow - I just listened to "Angela" for the first time ever, and I love it! Great song!
13:08 - I don't think it's fair say that as if Black Americans were against the song. The song, and it's message was endorsed by the leader of the Black Congressional Caucus.
Absolutely LOVE this album from beginning to end! Do people actually not understand that the album is supposed to sound like a newspaper? Do people not understand where John and Yoko's heads were at in 1972? "New York City" and "We're All Water" are kickass rock songs. AND a jam with Frank Zappa?! Play It Loud!
I was a teenager when this album came out, and I listened to it a ton. I didn't like it as much as JL/POB or Imagine, but I frankly was more disappointed with Mind Games, which seemed like a second rate, warmed over version of Imagine to me. I'm more in John's camp than Matt's on this one, but I can attest that the radical politics were already feeling passe by 1972.
Highly underrated album. It was slammed by mainstream music critics who couldn't swallow John & Yoko's radical politics. The Elephant's Memory were a great backing band. New York City was one of John's best solo rockers. It would be great if they did a remix.
Fans were expecting a 50th Anniversary release but perhaps it's not coming out?
@@popgoesthe60s52 A lot of super deluxe editions seem to be missing their anniversary deadlines. I wish they'd do vinyl editions separate from CD/ DVD/ Blu-Ray sets. I think shady stuff with major labels and vinyl pressing plants is a big part of what is causing the problems.
There was a time when "music critics" couldn't stand left-wing radical horseshit politics? What planet you from?
@@ChromeDestiny Excellent point you make and I heartily agree with you
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I bought this album used in the mid to late 1970's. It still has the price sticker of $2.69 on it. At the time I liked the song New York City because of the music, and oddly enough the song Born in a Prison for the same reason. I haven't listened to the album in many years, but my recollection is Phil Spector's overproduction made it sound worse. I think I ripped it into my computer years ago, so maybe I'll give it a listen later today. If not I have to find a drive belt for my old Pioneer turntable and give the vinyl copy a spin, lol.
oh i would take even the Yoko songs on Some Time In NYC over Paul's "Mary Had a Little Lamb" any day of the week...
John and Matt, you guys were great together. I hope you do more joint videos. Since they'd be about the Beatles, I do mean JOINT. 😄
Stay tuned for our next collaboration on a George Harrison album! Coming in a few days.
1:16:47 No! That didn't really happened: John & Paul saw a re-run of the show, which it was televised the week before.
There is this video of Paul's interview telling the true story: /watch?v=HL3Foo7ZokY
All John's songs were good, the live jam was pointless,,hope the 2023 remix makes a big difference? Maybe I am nieve, but I think most of the messages in the lyrics were timeless...and are still relevant today.......
I like STINYC. It is so different then any other of his albums.
One of the objections raised in this review is that it speaks about specific events, people and topics from 1972 so it is outdated.
But, let's look at the lyrics to 'Angela': 'Angela, you're one of the millions / Of political prisoners in the world.' John & Yoko could made that song about 'million polit. prisoners around the world',
but they choose to dedicate it to one of them, Angela Davis. So, they are aware she's just one of them and you can find million of similar cases around the world. The fact that she was released from prison by the time the album was released doesn't diminish the message. Mrs. Davis was freed - but what about all other zillions of prisoners, even today?
Next. The 'harsh' lyrics. I get John's 'if you had the luck of the Irish... you'd be sorry... you'd wish you've been an English instead'. From one article on the Internet I read: 'There is a bit of irony in the term “the luck of the Irish” as for most of history, the Irish have been a very unlucky people. ' Also, the title of the album is 'Sometime in NY City'. As English is my second language, I've checked
the meaning of the word and 'sometime' can mean: 1. in the future, 2. at some not specified point in time 3. (archaic) in the past. It could mean any of those things, but I think John had the third meaning on his mind (most likely) or maybe the second meaning.
The lyrics 'bastards commit genocide' - a strong word, maybe not quite accurate, but John also says: 'Why the hell are the English there anyway? / As they kill with God on their side... '- which he sings, as a Liverpudlian, as a Briton, de-attaching himself from British policy and politics towards Ireland and remembering the history class (how the English divided the land) and English language & literature (poets of Auld Eireland). John is, of course, the poet, rock'n'roller and he can't side with injustice done to the Ireland.
Lyrics of 'We're All Water' which are brought to question are: 'There might not be much difference between Manson and the Pope / If we press their smile' from comparing Manson to the Pope.
I don't have a problem with that. She compares famous (or infamous) people. Rockefellers are synonym for wealthy family - but There's no difference between us and Rockefellers if we sing.
There are also lyrics: in NYC: 'The Pope smokes dope everyday...' Should we then have lyrics which picture the Pope with pot?
Also, I like the refrain and its message:
We are all water from different rivers
That's why it's so easy to to meet
We are all water in this vast, vast ocean
Someday we'll evaporate together.
Also, I like this part: '...the Statue of Liberty said: Come!'
Instead of live disc which is really off, we could add other John's 'political' or 'social commentary' songs like Imagine, I Don't Wanna Be A Soldier, Give Peace A Chance, Power to the People, Gimme Some Truth, Happy Xmas (War Is Over), Only People & Move Over Ms. L (...'Your head is fulla snakes boy, you're better red than ....'), Nobody Told Me ('...They're starving back in China so finish what you got...'), Working Class Hero, Instant Karma!, God. And Matt, you could do a cover art for that album. :-)
It is a good, direct album. :-)
One song I always liked from the time I first heard it is "New York City." The jam at the end of "We're All Water" isn't bad. I like the live versions of "Cold Turkey" and "Well (Baby Please Don't Go) on the 2nd disc. Notice how Lennon occasionally emphasized the word "well" in his songs like Well Well Well", "I Don't Want to Be a Soldier," "Clean Up Time" (maybe in a light-hearted reference to the 1970 "primal" song). I think his earlier song, "Power To the People" is better and stronger than just about anything on "Some Time in NYC." The unfortunate use of the "n" word kind of buries the song in "the dustbin of history," as they say. I think if he had used some other word, the song would generally be much more highly-regarded.
Wait, what? Worse than London Town? Surely not. Worse than Back to the Egg? Nah, you are joking.
Yippies!
Yes it is
Actually, It's a Lennon and Ono album. What are the other Lennon and Ono albums? Two Virgins, Life With the Lions, the Wedding Album, and Live Peace in Toronto. Lennon thought of the J&Y albums as magazines: fans would give the vinyl a listen or two, then put the attractive cover on the wall. STINYC, the cover of which is a newspaper facsimile, fits right in, especially the live disc. It should have been released on the Zapple label.
Yoko wanted to move back to New York. They moved to 105 Banks Street and rented from Lovin’ Spoonful’s Joe Butler. In Greenwich Village, Bob Gruen, great guy, developed a friendship and beautifully documented John and Yoko through their time in New York in his photographs.
The Elephant Memories Band made the album rock. They did that famous week on the Micheal Douglass show. At times, the album was cliche, but it is fun to listen to. It was accessible. The open tuning and slide on a resonator guitar was terrific on John Sinclair. Yoko had two good songs with Sister O Sister & We’re all Water. New York City is a great song, his latest “Ballad of John & Yoko.”
There was a documentary made on the Attica State that was nominated for an Academy Award. The song works as a reference to the events.
The album doesn’t rate with his other work, but I think of Neil Young trying different styles and bands, this is an interesting alternative. Bob Dylan took different journeys with other collaborations. It is just a different journey he took. It isn’t commercial or equal to the standards he wrote with the Beatles or his other solo material. But can’t an artist experiment? His other material was so brilliant, this can’t hold up to the standards he wrote, but he was just being “immediate.” Cold Turkey and Instant Karma followed this approach to better results. Just think of it as John’s Basement Tapes, just putting together an unpolished work.
Sunday Bloody Sunday rocks like New York City. Think of it as John and Yoko’s garbage band album or a Bar Band album. Dylan had his Self Portrait album as well. Like punk, it is a very accessible album. Mixture of coffee house ballads and rockers. It captures a time and point in New York City, or more specifically, the village in the early 1970.
I grew up in the New York area, so it freezes a point in time and brings me back to that time. Like old post cards, it freezes time , time of the New Left, Norman Mailer, Abbie Hoffman, Jerry Rubin. The original album even had a post card of John giving a raised fist in front of the Statue of Liberty if my memory serves me correctly.
Well put, Gary. I think an artist has every right to experiment. The public also has a right to criticize those experiments. The rule of thumb in the avant-garde world is that the artist must pay a price for their art. Ono and Lennon paid the price. If they didn't pay a price, it wouldn't be "avant-garde." Somehow, they wanted it both ways. It doesn't work that way.
@@popgoesthe60s52 The artist creates. The artist expresses their vision. From some place inside themselves, art leaps forth into being, birthed from their being, sometimes compulsively, other times magically, still other times seemingly beyond their control or spontaneously. They are the artist, engaged in their personal journey for many reasons and with many motivations. Sometimes to resolve inner turmoil, other times to express inner exuberance, other times to communicate, and still other times engage the act of commerce or just making a living. We, the public, are the outsiders to this process. Behold, and have no bearing upon it’s creation. At best our position is to receive it and react to it. Sometimes that reaction is emotional other times cerebral. Nevertheless, the artist captures the zeitgeist for humanity. They have this unique gift to speak for all of us, or give words to which we can define ourselves.
The critic, like an adversary, sometimes acts in opposition to the act of creation, nevertheless, filling a minor role in helping the public, analyze and interpret the work of the artist, and put it in an important context. Yet at the same time, produce nothing but criticism as critics.
The artist doesn’t have it both ways, the artist only creates, and puts the creation into the world. Those pursuing art as commerce can’t have it both ways because essentially they have to please the listener or the customer. The true artist only has to please themselves, for the creation of their art is about themselves within themselves, not necessarily in a narcissistic way, but in the realm of a metaphysics and their inner journey, they engage in the world and themselves in that world. The artist engaged in commerce as you describe, as you point out engages differently. They engage in the production of a product that they want to be appreciated and purchased and valued by the listener or the consumer of the product. In this way, they have to please someone beyond themselves. They vicariously probably can’t have it both ways and are vulnerable to the critic and consumer. Where art becomes materialistic, commoditized, and consumable with a purchasing public, they then become subjected to the desires of the public and the critics.
@@GaryBook Critique can also be creative. See: Pauline Kael. Just because someone pursues art (as you imply is being done with this album) it doesn't mean they achieve it. Nor does it mean the art is good. Critics are needed to, in your words, "help the public analyze and interpret the work of the artist," but this is in conflict with your statement "they (the critic) produce nothing but criticism." I would argue that helping analyze and interpret produces a great deal of perspective and dialog - like what is going on here. The fact that is album is so polarizing, begs for discussion, analysis and criticism. Thanks for weighing in, Gary.
@@popgoesthe60s52 You had me at Pauline Kael, her criticism was art. Well played old sport. As a secular New Yorker and New Yorker Magazine Devotee, you mention the Sainted Pauline Kael, you have my heart.
@@GaryBook 😝 You should've known better than to mess with Matt! 🤣
Please don't mention Helen Reddy True rockers wouldn't give her any consideration. NINA SIMONE wouldn't touch a Yoko composition though probably Johns She was a tight BOWIE friend
... or it was Yoko's idea, or Yoko convincing John they could take Zappas song ... Sorry, I don't trust that woman (for example she claimed she didn't know about The Beatles and about John before meeting him. Didn't know about the biggest act in the world, while living in London? And why move to Swinging London from New York if you don't know that things are cooking there? And she first knocked at Paul's door ...).
On the other hand, we know that John was aware of steeling from Chuck Berry and his You can't catch me.
And what about Happy Xmas War Is Over and Stewball? It's just as clear as My Seet Lord and He's So Fine.
But I hope Matt is right on this.
Sorry for my bad english.
HARRISON ELECTRONIC SOUNDS ain't too great either and did he even play any of it Of course It wasn't meant as a Solo release as opposed to his wonderful film soundtrack WONDERWALL which he was heavily involved with and from a similar time period.
The studio disc hasn't the melodic hooks of Lennon's most memorable work. However, there is plenty to recommend it still. It has a rawness, John and Yoko's vocals are impressive and the Elephants Memory backing group play with a great deal of lustre. The lyrical stance, though, seems pretty contrived and full of political agendas, which places it firmly in the early seventies. If i had to rate it out of 5, I'd give it 3. The second disc which was taken from various live performances, wasn't really that necessary and some of the Yoko moments do grate.
'Two of Us' is a dreadful film. John and Paul are walking in the park [Central I think] and chatting away totally unmolested with people walking past them - a highly likely scenario in 1976. The 'Paul liked it' comment is based on a comment said by the actor who played Paul. He said that he had met Paul whilst on holiday and was told by him that he had 'nailed it'.
As an Irish person "Luck of the Irish" makes me cringe, "Bloody Sunday"s reference to genocide has historical resonance regarding the Elizebethan / Cromwellion massacres and the more recent Famine, for an avid reader Lennons lack of knowledge rsuggests a lack of true investment in this theme .
I love how you guys DO love the Beatles but can be honest about things you dislike. I've been a Beatles fan for 50 years but I don't have an unwavering cultish approach that many fans have, thinking every single song is sacrosanct
9:19, Even in 'high school' John Lennon was making cartoons of the 'principle'. And later, when a member of the 'Fab Four', he wrote a satyr.
By Lennon's own admission he tended to veer between arrogance and self-doubt. If "Some Time in New York City" represented hubris, it seems like its reception caused him to lose his self-confidence to a large extent.
Interesting discussion about Sometime In New York City. Can understand why it's considered John's worst solo album, but don't think it's as bad as many believe it is. That being said, don't believe it deserves to be re-issued as a 50th Anniversary box set! LOL. Think maybe half of its songs are decent ("New York City" being my favorite). "The Luck Of The Irish" is a nice dark ballad. Also like "John Sinclair", although I agree that all the "Gottas" in the lyrics become annoying. John was wondering about the photo of people carrying huge white crosses on the album jacket. Think that was probably a photo taken of people protesting (In Ireland or Britain?) the massacre of the Irish citizens by British troops, with each white cross representing each murdered person(?). Don't mind the second live disc. Given what little of Lennon's solo live performances are available, think that alone makes the second live disc valuable. Have also wondered about the wisdom of Lennon's house husband years. Know it's easy to say in hindsight, given what happened to Lennon, but he still continued writing songs throughout the mid to late 1970s. He could have spent maybe a month in the studio each year recording albums. Their promotion could have been done by his record label. Maybe a reason why Lennon pulled back from recording was because he knew the difficulty Yoko had in carrying pregnancies/not having miscarriages. Sean was in that sense a miracle baby, so it's understandable why his father wanted to spend a lot of time with him, at least initially.
I appreciated the comments on this controversial album - thanks Robert.
I've been a fan of Lennon's genius since the Beatles' early days, so I wanted to like this. There are some great moments where John and the band rock, but Yoko's caterwauling ruins the album for me.
John seemed to want to make a more obviously political album . Thats fine . But this was a musical belly flop .
I really can’t stand this album along with most of Lennon’s solo work. It makes you wonder what he would have done with his life if he wasn’t in the mutual support system known as the Beatles.
Very good point.
Although, I love your reviews I have no interest in John's solo career.
One Beatle-related regret I have is I didn't get to go to the fest one particular year when surviving members of Elephant's Memory were the guests. I could have told them how much I love their music. I have the LP John & Yoko produced ("Liberation Special" kicks it off) and it was probably released around the same time as New York City. It has the same sort of vibe New York City did. I have no doubt they probably jammed with Liverpool at the end of each day and I would have loved seeing them live.
Yeah, their vibe is what I imagine the New York of that time to feel like. Thanks for the comments, Farrell!
Their song "Old Man Willow" is phenominal
That was the Elephant's Memory album I had! On Apple! Loved it! (Now, whatever happened to it...???)
But a very interesting video ! I go more with John ! Sorry Mat !
Hey Tim, I appreciate your comments. I must confess. the Irish problem may not be nearly as understood here in America, so I'll give you that. One thing I won't stand for in my comment section is misrepresenting what I said. Your questions: "Mat are you sure by 1972 woman was free and racism ended ?" I never said either. Nor did I say "all the issues been resolved". Furthermore, I said that "black people said Lennon's use of the n-word was racist." They still think it's racist and I'm not sure why bringing up the obvious would be a problem. It's hard to have dialog, when commenters misquote me. And this happened after listening twice? Please clarify, Tim.
@@popgoesthe60s52 apologies Mat, sorry totally my fault, I am mortified thank you for the videos, And discussion. I meant no offence ! I misheard and wrote clumsily ! I think i was trying to say although the album is flawed and naive in many respects, many of the issues still remain !
Once again my sincere apologies Mat, Thankyou for your shows always informative and interesting.
@@timsinnott386 No problem, Tim. I agree that although there are flaws, it does have some high points as well. Thanks for the dialog.
??controversial?? embarrassing? Then don't listen to the record. With an opening like that I'll skip this video. The album is fine. It has good songs played by people who had something urgent to communicate
Not everyone can like what you like, jahpunk. Some of my reviews scare off people like yourself who can't tolerate opposing opinions.
Why Was This Album Even Reviewed? One of the Worst Albums Ever by Any Legendary Music Artist, Including John Lennon.
I was anticipating the 50th Anniversary box set due out this year. Also, it is a hotly debated subject - some love it, some hate it. We wanted to offer a non-fanboy review that this album seldom gets.
You did this month's ago and it's a dreadful album I'm afraid.
Same video, just on my channel now. John and I have another collab review on a George album coming later this week so stay tuned!
I positively hate this album. There is not one redeeming quality. The songs are ordinary musically and lyrically boring. They all center upon John and Yoko versus "the Man". The topical songs were dated as soon as released and totally unmemorable.
Yes, the biggest fault to me is the banality of the melodies. He sacrificed melody for message as if they were equal.
There are no birds in Vietnam.
I love this album. What a rocker NEW YORK CITY is. Angela is good and Yoko sings great!
Her best moment was "Sisters O Sisters"
Not really - in Angela every 2nd note (a) is out of tune ... horrible! Agree with NYC ...
@@farrellmcnulty909 Sisters ... is a naive childish sing-song (and sung out of tune as always) -
I have to stop listening after 20 seconds, cannot stand it ...
Can't comment on the record discussed here because I've only heard bits and pieces over the years. The critisism of it was so heavy at the time that it kept me away.
Thankful tho Matt that you seemed to steer clear of any "presentism" (looking back at things that once were fashionable with disdain or even outrage).
My takeaway from this talk is just that this album was a turkey, and it's definitely not aged well.
But I was surprised to hear Mr. Heaton at the end here, speaking highly of the made for TV movie "Two Of Us". I thought it was laughable at best. And it took a lot of liberties that could be mis-construed as fact by some I'm sure. Did not know Lindsay-Hogg directed this turkey...I probably didn't even hang around to catch the credits. 🤮 😤
Otherwise Matt...keep up the good work son. 🤘😻✌
I appreciate the comments, Jeff!
I love the Zappa/lennon live stuff a lot but the version on sometime in new york city is just an awful mix, phil added echo onto the vocals and overdubbed bass too. they also mixed out the lead singers, howard kaylan and mark volman which were probably some of the best parts. You can hear the full set without phil’s embelishments on the zappa album Mothers 1971. Also your guest was wrong about Jamrag being just noises, 1:18-2:26 is the melody of king kong the rest is just jamming. Yoko’s voice echo also takes over the mix in some parts. Interesting album with garabage mixing!
The show where Lennon was getting a lot of criticism from audience members is a daytime tv talk show called the Mike Douglas show, this was from the week John and Yoko were the co-hosts, and this one old dude is really giving Lennon a hard time about the song called Attica State, it's the most uncomfortable & awkward you'll ever see John Lennon on television, truly cringeworthy....
I've not seen that. I will look that up - thanks Doc!
No matter what one thinks of this album. No one can deny the peerless vocals of John Lennon. Perhaps the last of his vocal prowess that he never quite captured again.c
Mind Games -laid back style.
Walls -wistful
Rock Roll- over singing
DF- content
Completely enjoyed your conversation about this LP! Quick sidenote about your Allen Klein comment -- Klein and the other three Beatles were probably surely angered by this album even strictly from a financial perspective. IIRC, "Sometime in NYC" was covered by the 1969 Klein-negotiated contract with Capitol -- it was one of the records that had to sell 500,000 copies to trigger the 25% royalty increase by the end of 1972. This low-selling album is the reason that the higher royalty rate was never triggered. In addition, I don't think this album ever went into a second pressing right up until Lennon's murder -- While all US 1970s solo LPs were donning the Capitol label after 1976 (instead of Apple), you could still find a sealed Apple copy of this album with all the inserts right up until 1980 (in the record store chains that still carried it...).
Thanks Mike, I didn't know about the trigger clause. Another reason on my side of the scale!
(As late as 1977 my new store-bought copies of Imagine and Plastic Ono Band--with inserts!--and even Shaved Fish were still Apple label, while my new copies of Beatles albums bought at the same time were red label Capitol. Beatles White still had inserts but red Capitol labels.)
Didn't you guys review this last year already ?!
This is the same review but it was only viewable on John's channel. I added it to mine.
To eke out a modicum of enjoyment out of this album you need to switch off any critical faculties you might have, and be fully invested in John and Yoko's passing fancies. Insincerity oozes from every song. A year after this John had ditched his temporary (Yippie) friends and was busy snorting coke and drinking Brandy Alexanders with May Pang and Harry Nilsson in exclusive LA nightclubs.
Yeah, this was Lennon's last big 'artistic' move. Turned out to be artistic suicide. Great points, Mikey Saint!
Not convinced about the insincerity part. That's a judgement I wouldn't undertake. The rest of this comment's very interesting and I'd agree.
@@jonvought700 You probably have a fair point. Short lived sincerity is maybe more accurate, and the Lennons' desire above all else to remain in the US.
Perhaps forget the rest, "Woman is the N***er of the World" is one of his all time great songs. Yes, a complete shift for him but to me it is not unexpected. Fantastic.
Matt you and John can do a series SANDY DENNY & FAIRPORT CONVENTION 😍
Liege & Lief A favorite back in the day. Privileged to have interviewed them at Carnegie Hall
Mike Douglas has it's own DVD release and ROCK ICONS Cavett -
maybe I should've asked him in the NYC elevator back in 75 😊
The Jagger blues elevator ride is another story - I can't mention 😶
Yes, I agree with John Heaton. Season of Glass is a masterpiece! And I think most of her songs on Double Fantasy are great as well. For example Every man has a woman who loves him. So good! And a very good work from the band!It drives the song in a good way. And it's very well done when the guitar and the keyboard take turns in the melody. It was a stupid idea putting out John's harmony vocal without the melody line on record. It just sounds bad and weird. Bad idea from Yoko. When she's gone, I wonder what stories we will get about her. Strange woman.
Sunday, Bloody Sunday, was just John following through on the lyric from Revolution I, “And when you talk about destruction, don’t you know that you can count me out (in).”
Irish-British folk melody, like Pentangle for instance………(hint, hint)
Thanks Guys, i had this on vinyl but i can't check the album when you guys talk about certain details because i sold all of my vinyl albums a couple of years ago, why did i do that, mainly because in this day and age i'm an mp3 listener with no vinyl record player.
The reason why Klein would have been disappointed is that all he really wanted and aimed for was to have McCartney on board.