Your AR 15 is Not Free Floated
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- Опубліковано 26 лип 2024
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This was a clamping gasblock (the ones that I told you about in the video last week- not to use). Do as I say not as I do.
But, I LIKE my gas block to leak!
Put the gas block on backwards to block the gas. I ran a 22lr conversion like that for a while. As a bonus, you'll still have the weight there in case it matters.
You could be in politics with words like that 😂
I understand this struggle. I needed a raw SS gas block for mine and could only find 1 that fit what I was looking for that wasn't $75+ I am now shopping for one that uses the dimple.... at least with that I can be sure it's lined up.
@@timewave02012 this plus it the barrel harmonics should be affected less and only show how much the connection between the tube and the receiver changes accuracy. I honestly don't see how it would effect it much seeing as it floats in the upper though. I suspect the accuracy difference is coming from the action of the bolt not necessarily the gas system. I would like to see a test where the gas system is modified even in the conventional version so that it's single fire. Maybe there is an adjustable gas block that can block all gas?
Really?? This is like the kid in class that has to argue with the teacher on everything
Yeh, this is a very dumb video
Sooo... your gas tube doesn't "free float" in your upper receiver like ever other AR15. Weird, my gas tubes definitely free float... try again, VSO.
I don't get these dumb videos, it misleads people to believe the dumbest shit without actual research. Does harmonics not play into accuracy? I'm sure it does. Are there true free float AR's.......yes (Athena Precision).
@@shibalseki8818 I guess you could also include all blowback design PCC setups.
@@doolay1988 You both sound like you run ceramic plates
"You are technically correct... the best kind of correct." -Bureaucrat Number 1.0 (3000CE, Colorized)
"CE"? cringe
@@tedundercarriage8183 Thank you for providing value to everyone's lives with your worthless reply. You are dismissed.
@@Phixeon act like a little baby because you got laughed at for using the beta form of AD. I'm pretty sure you meant to use "BCE" too which makes it funnier and proves my point that trying to change a centuries old naming convention is pointless and confusing for smooth brains like yourself.
@@Phixeon This is ironic
Here's how you can eliminate variables: Use an adjustable gas block that can be turned completely off. Then you could test the rifle in normal mode, with no gas but still the gas tube, and without the gas tube. The gas block could stay in place the whole time.
The problem isn't if the gas block is closed, it's that it touches the barrel.
Turn the gas block to 1 o'clock, you've got a blocked gas port.
I always run A2 gas blocks, so this never worried me . I think much of the free float hype is largely overblown on a run and gun rifle .
Doesn’t make much of a difference under 200 yards. If you are looking at smaller targets at longer ranges then the free floating helps. The vast majority of rifle users today won’t realize the benefit though.
Great video, subscribed! 💪🏼
By that definition, exactly zero delayed blowback semi-autos are free floated. Which is fine if you want to be pedantic but it obfuscates the very real difference of a free floated handguard vs. barrel mounted handguard. In the same way, being pedantic about DI/piston is silly given that true DI doesn't exist in the modern context.
G3 family is honestly the only "true" free floated semi automatic guns I could think of. The barrel only touches at the trunion and no where else since it has no gas system.
I totally agree on the pedantic part.
How isn't a delayed blowback free floated?
@@Afroninja52 Are you forgetting the front sight housing and cocking tube?
Isn’t the Serbu Arms BFG-50A a true DI system? If I recall, Ian from Forgotten Weapons said it was a true DI system in his video of it that came out a few months ago.
@@That_Guy5575 It's as much DI as the MAS-49 is, but the AR is more DI.
You just made a straight up one port compensator that pushes the barrel down. lol
Is this new?
I thought everyone knew that from back in the 90's.
freefloat is commonly understood to be the handguard not touching any other point of the barrel besides the barrel nut.
Love your content. Thank you!
I have a Midwest Industries free float quad rail on my 10.5 AR-pistol. I love it! Good video 🤘🏽
I'm betting that the gas port was acting like a really weird muzzle break and doing it before the bullet left the barrel. . also you can plug it by just turning the block upside down.
gas tube is not attached to the rifle,it simply passes through a hole that fits in another hole but its not attached mechanically in anyway therefore its free floated.
Really interesting results! I hope you are able to do another test.
Thank you for this.
Isn't it likely you saw accuracy improvement due to an increased dwell time here in single shot mode? The bolt remained locked and closed past the time the round leaves the barrel, unlike this platform does generally.
He just learned what free float means, give him a few years to understand what dwell time is
@@mister5357 haha I'm no expert, but isn't that one reason why bolt action rifles in Call of Duty are more accurate? 😆
Ied like to see more testing on this subject. The more data we collect the better for everyone. Would like to see the gun locked in place to "remove" human error. Great video as always.
I clicked the vid because I saw the MI hand guard was expecting something negative 🙃.
Ah, pedantry..... the last refuge of scoundrels.
My dude, you’re trying too hard.
Click bait bullshit
The memes are on point on this one!!
Barrel harmonics effects point of impact mostly. As long as the whip is static vertically you're just dialing in your elevation. So yeah... this would be a problem at 800+ yards. (Edit: 800+ yds for me. I was speaking for myself... myself using .308WIN)
I think the more interesting question is between a “free float” rail and a non-floating handguard held by a delta ring.
I hit you up every day for the Gundies! Sorry you didn't win one. You definitely deserve one. I enjoy your content! Keep it up.
Interesting test. My opinion is that the differences you saw were mostly from the lack of weight when you removed the gas block. And from the way the gun operated when you put it back on, I'd say the gas block was probably in a slightly different (and misaligned) position.
Was the muzzle device removed in order to remove the gas block? If so, the barrel was torqued both removing and reinstalling the muzzle device. That's an additional change in test variables. If the muzzle device position was not duplicated that could be another variable.
I think this is still a very interesting test that raises some good points. A Supurlative Arms gas block would let you shut off 100% of the gas and you would not have to worry about changing barrel harmonics between tests from rotating other brands of gas blocks or torqueing the barrel when removing and reinstalling the muzzle device. You might need to cut the gas tube to remove it so that you don't have to monkey with moving the gas block at all, otherwise you add variables.
A properly installed gas tube usually slides into the action pretty easily. It SEEMS like it shouldn't be damping the barrel harmonics very much. My personal and amateur opinion is that your test identified other variables that likely made more of a difference than the fairly loose link of a gas tube between the gas block and the action. I'd also enjoy seeing you run a test with the gas shut off 100% but with the gas tube still installed. That might tell you if your groups were being affected by the action cycling.
It might be a challenge in this day of scarce ammo, but shooting a round your rifle likes more would probably give better groups. Then the effects of any mechanical changes made between groups would be more apparent, and the differences would be easier to compare.
When you're finally done with the mountain of editing that all of the above would entail; how about a video on what, if any, differences an ultra lightweight gas block makes in group size vs a heavier one? And of course you would need to test several barrels to see if the results were consistent! Lol!
Boy, ytou sure stirred some folks up Curtis.
Fair point.
I want to point out that since you had to cycle the gun each time when you removed the gas block does invalidate that fire string. When you manually load a round the point of impact will be different than when the gun cycles after being fired.
"Free floated" in the context of ARs means there is no contact between the handguard and the barrel.
Stop being pedantic.
I almost always hear "free-floated handguard/rail" rather than free-floated barrel.
Pedantic is the exact correct word too
75% of his videos that "instill mind blowing knowledge" are just pedantic word games..
Well um.. excuse me sir.. but technically you're not going to take a shit! You are leaving one! I will measure the total volume of the toilet before and after to prove you did indeed "leave a shit".. not take one!! I'm smart!
@@bobvagene LOL funny as heck and true!!!!!
Nice video dude
what optic do you have on the first rifle
On some bolt guns people put one pressure point forward of the action in order to change the harmonics of the barrel. I assume this gas block system would do the same thing. It's not so important that nothing touches the barrel as it is for everything to be repeatable and consistent.
Fucking love that there is a flintlock pistol with an RMR on it on the wall 😂
Hmmmm, I wonder if radially delayed blowback like the CMMG PCCs use could be adapted to rifle calibers and used to make an even more accurate AR
This should be a video
It makes sense. Brownells' armorer / gunsmith basically states the same thing. The gas block connection to the BGC doesn't allow an AR 15 barrel to be completely free floating, thus, causing a slight disruption in the harmonic oscillations when firing. However, it is an improvement in accuracy over the "retro" barrel handguards.
flexible gas tube, your welcome
MP ATIENT maybe they do! Maybe that’s why the fancy ones cost a ton for a little metal tube! it would be cool to watch that it on ultra high speed video.
First time watching one of your videos. I just learned something and you got my sub. Don't worry I will totally screech if you say anything bad about my Sig P320RX. LOL
Use a set screw gas block. Flip the gas block upside-down and the set screw should be aligned to plug the gas port when tightened.
Brownells does carry White Oak Armament 18" rifle length SPR profile barrels that are not drilled for a gas system in stock. Sadly, neither Brownells or White Oak have the drilled barrels in stock.
Adding to that, there is the barrel harmonics changes (as you mentioned) in removing the gas block from the barrel versus with the gas block installed; there are products that claim to be able to "tune" that vibration out (limbsaver has/had one called the "deresonator"), and even the barrel profile thickness that comes into play. The most controlled, but also the most expensive, would be to have two completely identical uppers. Two of everything with the only changed variable being one with a gas port and one without.
so what about direct blowback? Ar-9's dont use a gas system
It only counts if they use glock mags.
Well you're right, this was rather dubious science. What I think really would have been interesting is gas block open vs gas block closed. Grab something like the Strike Industries Collar Adjustable Gas Block that can shut off completely. That effectively closes the gas port removing the effects of pressure in the gas tube maybe effecting harmonics.
Need to do this with a more accurate, longer barrel, and supersonic setup though. More accurate of course for better readings. Barrel harmonics are more pronounced in longer barrels and with higher pressure cartridges. Also more dwell(distance from gas port to muzzle) would increase the effect.
Thanks bud
I would very much like to see you plug the gas port and re-do that test. I shared the channel and this video with three guys in the AR15 parts isle at sportsman’s warehouse in Vancouver WA. They were very intrigued and would also like to see you re-do the test with some sort of a plugged gas port. We would also appreciate a high-speed video of the barrel so we can watch the difference is flex. That is about the best I can do, now make that video! 🤠🇺🇸
What you are learning is that weight anywhere on the barrel and it's accompanying inertia might change point of impact. Look at barrel tuners the FClass guys use. Hell put a heavy can on a 20" pencil barrel. Point of impact change from a constant like a gas block can be adjusted away with scope/sight adjustments. It's dynamic changes that can occur from temp/humidity/grip or support that makes it tough for a rifle to maintain consistent poi.
I saw a barrel with no drilled gas port on brownells. In stock too. Should work for your perpose.
Cut an inch or so off the front end of a gas tube and install it upside down. With the gas port on top it should seal the hole in the front sight base just as well as when the gas tube is installed correctly. You could also try a pistol gas tube in a carbine, or a carbine gas tube in a rifle, if you don't want to cut one off, but the vibrations would introduce another variable.
Interesting idea
Would love to see a follow up....so as to not foul up the barrel, what about removing just the tube and corking the gas block? Probably could get a similar manufacturers block and Weld it closed???
You rigidly mount the back of your gas tube?
Huh... all of mine float.
Well, Ain't that Cute. I sold a mug like that in a yard sale for a $1.
When he mention how its not free floating, i though he was gonna reffer to the fact that most free float hamdgaurds are on the barrel nut wich deos tuch a bit of the barrels harmonics but much less then a standered handgaurd.
On a separate note there was an intro add to body armour. Alert that there is a potential HR bill to outlaw not just the sale of but too the possesion of body armour.
Thread the gas block hole and put a set screw in it👍
New type of gas block and holding point at the receiver needed for gas tubes.
*Looks at AR... "You are disappoint."
I thought the same thing. I’m looking at a gas block wrapped around the barrel and I’m thinking - how? That’s not free floated
Word play. Point is - a properly designed handguard helps prevent accuracy deviation by flexing of the barrel by the support hand. The rest is just syntax.
Sounds like a nice follow video is needed...
My barrel is free floating. I cant find my gas block and tube...
What kind of gun is it?
What optic was on the first gun?
This is very interesting. I once used a previously burnt out bbl ( or so I thought) from my service rifle , white oak 20inch 1-7 over 3500 rounds ( groups had opened up to over a minute of angle, from under a half min.) I was using the bbl to test another rifle configuration ( long story) using a hose clamp and shim to block of gas port. Everything worked as planned, however; I noticed the accuracy was back, ( using same lot, every component, of my loaded ammo ) more or less, solid half min. Hmmmm . Installed back on my service rifle with gas system, same ammunition, back to over one min. of angle. I blocked the gas system same as the other rifle and got similar results, back around a little over a half min. of angle . All testing preformed at 100yds bagged, 10 round groups, similar conditions. Repeated tests with both rifles, virtually identical results. Made me consider testing the bbl (plugged) manually operated, to see how much longer accuracy would last. Never did, it would make rapid fire strings interesting. Just an observation made by myself, an average high power rifleman, sharp shooter classification. Richard Frost Indiana.
Your barrel wasn’t burned out at 3500 rounds.
Oh no! You can’t.
Fine, you’re going there. Let me ask you, what’s mounted to the end of that tube as it goes back to the upper receiver?
So is it ok to put a pistol grip on forend of rail on ar15? Or will it damage gun?
Hell yeah greetings from Colorado love to see the science on plugging off the gas ports 👍
isn't the gas tube floating freely 'enough' in the upper to not mess with the harmonics of the barrel whip?
I was thinking the same thing.
use an adjustable gas block and remove the gas tube. You can shut the gas off at the block.
So I see you have a msr15. Why does mine feel stuck? I took out the two screws on the bottom sides but I don't see anything else and am not ready to try and tap it out until I have an answer
one issue with your test is you were changing pressure out the end of the barrel, you had 1 pressure with gas block on properly, when you remove gas block you had lower pressure and then when you had gas block on but not aligned properly you had higher pressure out the end. that is something that will make this type of test difficult.
Aren’t you going to be changing the pressure in the barrel taking off the gas block?
Do it to it. We will be watching
Hey what scope is that?
Can you say adjustable gas block screwed all the way closed?
So this doesn't include any of the bolt action/straight pull uppers or the pistol calibers that are blowback or radially delayed
It's true, it is effectively impossible to freefloat a gas-operated firearm. The best you can hope for is a partial freefloat that limits the contact points with the barrel as much as possible. The best "freefloat" handguards will screw directly into the barrel nut for a hard index, not just clamp. I have seen a lot of very expensive handguards that just clamp, and some very affordable (but no less quality) handguards that actually screw in (Radical Firearms MHR and FGS comes to mind).
To test this correctly you'd need a delayed blowback AR and a regular AR that you'd test with several barrels, first one test of each barrel, no drilled gas whole, in the DBB AR and then a second test of the barrels with the gas whole drilled and gas block attached.
Drop the gas tube and turn the gas bloc over , did that to a Commifornia gun with the Kali key bolt setup.
You could get a gas port which is adjustable and just shut it off rather then plugging it.
The deviation could be from temperature too...was it warming up? Was the ammo in the sun?
But muh free-float! Dammit Bobby!
Not sure if you had the muzzle device on or off. but the rotation of a muzzle device changes poi but I guess it wouldn't effect overall accuracy. Just a thought
I timed it the same each time.
Easy way to block the gas port - take gass block, rotate 10 deg. Or, install backwards. Or, lay a bead of weld into the gas tube hole
"I will come up with a way to plug the gas port!"
Um...Rotate the gas block 90 degrees..... (face palm)
Granted that the rear of the gas tube goes through the upper receiver, it is not ATTACHED at the back.
It homes the gas key though
@@VSO_Gun_Channel that's such a negligible amount of force that it shouldn't even be said. Your muzzle device pulling the barrel down because of gravity likely makes more actual force on the barrel.
For a moment the gas tube is full of pressure, that pressure is pushing against the carrier and forward on the gas block.
@@Afroninja52 What if there's no muzzle device?
Hey what's up with that optic you have on there
That was a gas block? I thought they put that on my AR to protect the barrel when shipping mine to the FFL. I guess I'll put it back on. Learn something every day!
Lol what did you think when tou took it shooting for the first time? That you just bought a piece of sh*t lemon that wouldn't cycle?
what sight is that at 0.41 sec
Tac weld the gas port shut. Should hold for a bit
You could put a gas block and tube on a 9mm barrel just for non free float purposes.
Turn your adjustable gas block off and remove the gas tube try it that way maybe that will work.
You don't think that the gas port is acting as a compensator?
In what context do people not refer to the rail when talking free float?
Is there such a thing as a free floated barrel? I don't know all the details. This is interesting to me.
That was magic. 🤣
*Chad meme*
"Why yes, my AR isn't free floated. How could you tell?"
Hey weren't you one of the guys the raided the capitol?? I seen a picture of you there
Very cool test. I thought that no gas system would make it more accurate and I was correct. I’m thinking an adjustable gas block needs to be used to see if you can replicate the results from this video.
It's not quite as simple as saying that no gas block made it more accurate. In this test the rifle was semiautomatic in the first and third test, while it had to be cycled manually in the second. So there are several variables that was changed at the same time. Having to manually cycle the bolt between each shot might have counted for at least some of the change in group size. But with the very small sample size it could just a easily be a coincidence. A lot more groups would have to be shoot before it can be said that the "clean" barrel groups better. Logic says it should be slightly better without the gas block and gas tube. The question is if the difference is really that large as to be significant at a relatively short range.
It should also be interesting to see tests done with a few different barrel weights attached to see if that changes the group size, and if so by how much.
That the rifle didn't seem to perform really well with the ammunition used doesn't help matters.
at least the barrel and handguard are wireless. And that leaves us with diminished communications speeds
As far as plugging the gas hole, why not just rotate the gas block a little? Especially if it’s a clamp design, should be able to get a decent seal on it. Plus you’d also have the weight there for sake of repeatability.
Never saw anyone do this before, this should be good but I don't think their will be much of a difference if any, MY GUESS. I think it showed promise ? YES DEFINITELY MORE ON THIS, PLEASE. One thing I've also tried is too put pieces of wood between the rail & barrel especially towards the tip. I might try too tap the rail in different places & apply pressure with some type of screw up & down the barrel. I'm really a bolt action guy & bed a lot of rifles, MAJOR DIFFERENCE ON MOST BUT YOU HAVE TOO FIND THE SWEET SPOT, SIR. The gun also must have a good crown, locking lugs lapped ect...
Simple remove the gas tube loosen the gas block rotate it 90 degrees if the fore arm has space or just slide it forward a little so it is not aligned with the hole and tighten it back