#10MinuteTalk
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- Опубліковано 1 сер 2024
- “Free Floating” your barrel seems like the popular thing to do. Whether it’s AR’s, or bolt guns, it seems as though any non-free-floated barrel is automatically doomed to a life of complete and utter inaccuracy… Right? Ryan Muckenhirn, Jimmy and Mark discuss free floated barrels and whether or not it really is the all-or-nothing way to extracting maximum accuracy out of your rifle - and if a rifle that’s not free floated can even shoot well at all.
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Ryan is a encyclopedia...keep him on more
he's by far the best part of the podcast, mark is great, jim though...
@@newerest1 ... Carry on? Genuinely curious - Jimmy
And Paul
Just give Ryan some more water.
@@VortexNation You do great Jimmy.
Worse thing I see is free floated barrels with flimsy stocks that flex to the point of touching the barrel.
Agree look at winchester XRP with the clip cheap forearm.
You can use devcon to stiffen up the stick for end without adding weight.
@angelaprater2679 you think that Winchester is bad? Well it is! But I seen one that makes the win xpr seem stiff. The new CZ 600 Alpha. That alpha is the most flimsy I've ever seen by long shot. Inane colt cz are allowing piles of shit out lik that
As my instructors said: as a general rule, free floated barrels will sometimes be more precise, but will almost always be more consistent. A lot of thin barrels can benefit from some forend pressure, but it will be load dependent and can be finicky. The quick and easy answer is: yes, have it floated if it's feasible, but don't stress over it and don't ruin the gun to do it.
Please do a 10-minute talk on the 6.8 western and the 270 WSM
Easy 270
I have a Browning A-bolt white gold medallion in 7mm rem mag. The barrel was free floated from the factory but just enough that a bill could just fit between the stock and barrel. I noticed after a couple shots the 3rd would be way off and every consecutive shot there after. This was frustrating when trying to zero and measure group size. I tried switching many types of ammo manufactures and bullet weights. After realizing the barrel was expanding and touching the stock I sanded the inside of the stock channel and gave it lots of room to expand. Group size went from 2.5" to 1" after sanding.
I have a Winchester 69A 22LR that my Great Grandfather gave me around 45years ago. I recently refinished it myself. I don’t know if it changed the original accuracy, but I free floated the barrel. It was difficult because the way the receiver rests in the stock. I used J-B Weld to bed the receiver and barrel stud. I shot around 10 different brands and weights of ammo through it after initially sighting it in. I was very surprised at how accurate it was. I shot at 50 yards and it was sub- moa to a little over. None of the rounds shot bad, even the cheapest Remington bulk ammo and CCI Stingers which are not notorious for accuracy. I found that it did favor the Federal Hunter Match, which I now need to find more of since that is what I will use to hunt with that rifle. I love your videos. There is something very informative for everybody. 👍
Plz do a 10 minute talk about the .325 WSM. I like the lesser known cartridges. The downside is finding GOOD information about them. Love what you guys do. Keep it up
What an interesting discussion. Here's my experience with my old Sako. When I got it, it shot the only available Remington ammo at the time at about 3 inches. So I started reloading for it and developed two loads that shot about an inch for 3 shots. It was never free floated. About 5 years later, it developed a bad forend pressure like more than 10 lbs. So I knew the wood stock wasn't sealed and had warped. I brought it to a gunsmith who suggested pillar bedding and reduce the forend pressure back to a few lbs and that's what he did. I no longer have any POI shifts and even went on to win a hunter class match where we had to shoot 2 ten shot strings at 100 yards. Both string were about 1.5 inches. It will now shoot most factory ammunition less than an inch for 3 shots opening to 1.5 for 5 shots. For a hunting rifle and the way I hunt its fine. Every year when I sight in the only adjustments I make is if I change loads. Same load is always spot on. On the subject of bench sight in, I'm an old sand bag guy. One day I was sighting in someone else's rifle and a dealer was sighting in some rifles in his fancy rest. After I was done, he told me that my sight in method wasn't good so I told him well try this rifle. He shot exactly at the same point of aim as I did (within a quarter inch as me). Not exactly scientific but good technique is good technique. BTW, I always tell my clients to test fire it after I sight in to make sure their technique is close to mine because of body weight, grip tension, etc. If your hunting rifle shoots good 3 shot groups consistently, don't change anything whether its free floated or not. If things change, and it was not free floated, consider adding or reducing forend pressure and sealing the wood properly. If that doesn't work consider free floating and glass bedding as a last resort. Like you said, it may or may not help.
Great video guys
I have free floated the barrel on every timber stock rifle I have ever owned without an issue and it has always improved the accuracy and consistency every time , just a pillar bedding job will also help without bedding the full action . Steve from Australia .
Love your vids. I have 3 TS M77's that tightening that diagonal receiver bolt brought the all into awesome accuracy! Not many manufacturers sell rifles with free floated barrels.
Love these take guys. I appreciate how you bring it back to practical. I (I suspect most of your followers as well) really love this stuff and tinkering to get the best per application. But at the end of the day a typical hunting applications a lot of things do not make as much difference as we would think. At one time I was toying with replacing my 30-30 because it was an outdated cartridge. Then I killed a nice buck at 80yards and it did damage. That’s when I realized, it’s not a 308 but it’s still more than sufficient for my application.
Since you mentioned a Ruger American I’ll bring up my experience. I have one in 6.5 creedmoor with a Vortex Diamondback tactical 4-16x44 mounted on it. Off a rest I would shoot around 1.5 - 1.75 moa groupd due to a fliers in every ground. Looking at the stock it was contacting the barrel on the left side to the point where it left a mark. Opened up the barrel channel and the groups sunk to around 1moa. Later I placed that action in a magpul hunter stock and with hand loads I shoot .75 moa at 100 yards easily.
Hey guys, love the 10minute talks, especially the ones you did on not-so-popular cartridges. How about doing one on the almost forgotten (if ever known) .30 Remington AR that was chambered in the R-15 rifle. I have one, great AR-15 cartridge that smokes all other .30 caliber AR-15 cartridges out there.
No free float on my browning bar mk1 270 and its a excellent shooter with 3x9x40 scope. I love it.
The main issue is barrel harmonics. Free floating can change it for the better. It can change it for the worse as well. We can't see the harmonics without some expensive lab setup. Even then deciding exactly what would improve it is a shot in the dark. Free floating for the most part just adds to consistency good or bad. Some barrels benefit in the accuracy department with added pressure because it calms the harmonic whip. One example I always go back to is the Ruger 77 Ultra-light vs the 77 Compact. The Ultra-lights seemed to suffer more barrel whip because of the light profile. The Compacts suffered less because it is a standard profile barrel just cut shorter. Both achieve the same overall weight range. The Compacts always seemed more accurate in my experience. They did give up a little velocity but kept better accuracy. Experimenting with different loads is also another method of finding a solution to barrel harmonics. Bullet weight and velocity can effect the barrel whip. And of course there is that occasional lemon barrel that just won't shoot no matter what you try. Take 10 rifles off a production line and there is no guarantee they will all shoot the same ammo exactly the same. It really is amazing just how well it all works for the most part. There are lots of variables to deal with. Firearm, ammo, sights,shooter and mounts. Lots of room for errors.
Really appreciate these vids! Ty😊
I totally agree you need to do the same thing every time you shoot to prove the Rifle. Some of my guns are free Floated. And some are not.. It all depends whether shoots better or not
Would love to hear a 10 minute talk 45-70
I have a Remington 710 in .270 Win and even with the crappy plastic stock that flexes and touches the barrel all over the place, and the sticky bolt that binds up in the receiver constantly, that rifle (as much as I hate it) shoots lights out. It shoots every bit as good as my FN/Winchester m70.
I’ve often found that tip pressure or barrel bedding will make a rifle shoot better then free float
Would love a 10 minute talk on the 6.5-300 weatherby!
Awesome conversation!👍🏻😃
Any way you guys can do that followup podcast on Shotgun Slugs? Loving the podcasts!
I normally buy a Boyd's stocks their impervious to just about everything including water they may be a little on the heavy side but they seem to work and free-floating is is good if you use the judicial amount of Acra glass if you want full contact but with full contact you could be messing with the barrel harmonics
I bought a Lee Enfield 1914 sporter (303 British). I got it for a little over a hundred with a purchase of another rifle. Upon deep inspection of the barrel, it looked like someone took a huge dump down it. I soaked it and clean it and brushed the inside Every Day. I let it drain and did it over and over. It was Still Dark, Green and frosty after a month and a half.
I took it to the range,....... and it is one of my favorite rifles.
I was hitting quarter sized clays at 100 yards the first time out.
Not only that, but I handed it to a few guys at the range and they too were hitting Very accurately. Sometimes things just work for whatever reason. (lol)
sighting in on a lead sled with non floated ar vs shooting off my tripod with no forearm pressure it was way off. took forever to figure it out. but the poi changed 4"high at 100 and 8"@200!.
If a barrel oscillates, ( not reverberate ), would not a stiffer barrel improve accuracy? I thought of this one day while watering my lawn with a hose. I also coated my '03-A3, which was glass bedded in a beautiful wood stock. It floats about half way through the fore end now. I'm yet to take it to the range. I enjoy your show, learning as I go. Thanks!
Still waiting on the 10 Min talk about Ryan's 1000 yard muzzleloader
Love the talks. I have listened to every single one. Criticisms on this one. Not enough detail and very average discussion. I'm an avid shooter who knows more than the average person. Moving forward, I'd like to hear more on the technical side.
My Remington 700 AAC SD has the same accuracy whether I banded the barrel to the Hogue stock or put the barreled action into the KRG Bravo chassis.
This topic has become a very real concern for me. I have two Howa 1500 Long Range rifles in 6.5 Creedmoor and 7 mm Rem Mag which came with the awful Hogue pillar bedded stock. The barrel contour of these rifles is not like #2 sporter you find in most Howa 1500 rifles available at a local guns store it is in fact a bit heavier with less taper near the muzzle. Even so barreled the action fits very snugly in a full aluminum bedded Hogue stock for standard barrels. The barrel does make contact at the front of the stock and in some parts of channel near the chamber but otherwise there is a tiny gap everywhere else. The thing is the stock these guns came with wasn't any more free floated than the ones I replaced them with but the big difference is my replacement stocks have full aluminum bed block molded into the rubberized compound of the stock. It makes for a heavier and a stiffer stock. The question is will these points of contact affect precision or repeatability? I don't know because I haven't taken them to the range yet but I am really itching to try them out. My personal preference would be to free float the barrels completely especially for #2 sporter contour and thinner because I feel those are more likely to have amplified harmonics during firing but for a heavier contour barrel there is a lot more weight and material in the barrel itself and I would expect those to exhibit subdued harmonics if at all. Maybe for those barrels free floating isn't so necessary.
Remington 700 bdl have an 8lb pressure point in the forend of the stock and everyone knows about the accuracy of an old bdl and I have many for that reason. Also weatherby vanguard 2 is bedded in for the whole length of the stock and a lights out gun. In my opinion the pencil barrels benefit from the support and helps ridgity and barrel whip down. ( opinion not fact)
You are correct on the barrel whip issue. Free floating enough to prevent barrel whip from causing contact with the stock always helps but bedding a barrel in so you can minimize whip will help a lot as well. consistent contact or consistent no contact.
A quick easy way to tell if free floating your bolt gun will improve it is to put a shim under the barrel lug untill it free floats and then shoot it. In my Ruger M77s I put 2 pieces of aluminum can under the barrel lug. I saw a noticeable improvement and just left them there. No in letting necessary.
I have one rifle fully bedded. The rest I've free floated but I bed the first 1.5 to 2 inches of barrel from the front lug.
Totally depends on the rifle. I've had some that worked better free floated, some with forend pressure, and some that were full length bedded. Evey rifle is a world unto itself. A solid stock also enters the equation. Most injection molded stocks are pretty poor accuracy wise. There has definitely been improvements in that regard in the past few years, but by and large they are flimsy, particularly in the forend on a bolt action rifle. A cheap wood stock generally has more accuracy potential than most nylon injection molded stocks in that regard.
I have an older 1953 Remington 721 in 270 Winchester and I find that if I shoulder the gun and shoot from a crouched position I have much better accuracy than if I’m prone and loading my bipod. Now I know that barrel is not free floated 100% and is supported by a chunk of wood about an inch in from the front of the stock. It’s a rifle meant for hunting but it could be a good long range rifle if I could free float glass bed and get more consistency out of it. That may mean I need to get a heavier barrel although the older barrels seem to be made very well. If I did that I would certainly speed up with a twist rate to a small degree to make it better at stabilizing heavier projectiles like a 163 or 175
Full barrel contact bedding with a silicone caulk I feel could improve accuracy of pencil barrels, with its vibration dampening properties. I know it’s common among .22 enthusiasts but I wonder how it would effect a larger round like .308
My Model 700 CDL SF 257 Wby came non free floated, wooden stock with a wooden hump half way down the barrel.
Hey, i see you guys have howa 1500 mountain alpine could you do a review on it sometime? Maybe do a comparison with other lightweight factory rifles?
Please do a 6.5/300 weatherby magnum 10 minutes talk PLEASE 🙏🙏
So I have a 300 Weatherby mag that is glass bedded 4 inches out on the chamber then free floated from there
Also a .22-250 that has a bull barrel and is fully glass bedded they both shoot lights out in all climate
My 25 year old 257 wby mag mark 5 w/symthetic stock is suported, shoots lights out
Any thoughts on doing a talk on the 338 Win Mag?
So what your thought on a MP15 with the front sight on the barrel that the hand guards hook onto
Noticed the WSU hat behind you guys a couple episodes ago. Go Cougs!
We have a savage 111 in 7mm mag I’m having accuracy problems I’ve tried different rails rings and scopes still same issue I wonder if my Stock is flexing
Hey have you guy's heard about the new 6.8 western? It would be awesome if you guy's would talk about it already. Keep up the good work.
Definitely have heard about it, but limited experience at this point. Hoping to get hands on and then do a podcast about it!
I have a weatherby vanguard the original stock is not free floating, I tried to get it to shoot better by putting it in a bell and Carlson target stock and it made no difference in accuracy
I dont know if the other old millitary rifles have this, but the lee enfields have a screw that puts pressure on the barrel in the full stock. You can tune the barrel to the current ammo the military is using. I suppose it depends what variables you can change to get accuracy. Commercial public rifles can change ammo to get accuracy, mill rifles all use the ammo they are issued, so I suppose they gotto tune the rifle
Do a 10 minute talk on all or most weatherby cartridges. The RUM cartridges. 220 Swift.
Dance floor hard wood wax does magic on old wood stock guns instead of clear coat for water resistant and making the grain look brilliant. The old Korean War vet buddy who got me I to big game hunting as a child swore by it and I've used it to this day to make old dusty gunshop specials into great looking and hunting guns. On the topic of non free floating I did very well with a m16 a2 that was non free floated and using iron sights and a loop sling attached from my biceps straight to the forearm of the gun at 500 yard hitting the 10 ring everytime.
Wanting to bed my Rem 700 25/06. A wood stock. At the fore end, there is a spot that touches the barrel at the sling stud area. Should I freefloat the barrel or bed that area as well where the barrel touches? Thank you in advance!!
Some Finnish-modified Mosin-Nagants (Some with Western receivers like Westinghouse or Remington) were free-floating, or maybe all? From 1927-1944.
I've always wondered if there was a way to make a sporter barrel stiffer through bedding. Look at the carbon wrapped barrels, aren't they kind of doing the same thing, the opposite of free floating? Wrapping material around the barrel, full contact, to stiffen the barrel?
In my experience, which is largely milsurp bolt actions, and lightweight magnum hunting rifles, it seems that shorter, and/or thicker barrels seriously benefit from free floating. 26 inch plus light pencil barrels, in my experience, seem to shoot far better with some forend pressure. Your mileage may vary
I floated a Ruger M77 Mark2 in .260 Rem. with a woodstock. It gave the rifle consistently 1.5 inch groups. Not super accurate but very consistent with most loads.
I had a Ruger M77 mk 2 aswell but 30-06 in syntethic that wasnt free floated and shot 1 inch groups at 100 meters
I free float my bbl on my 243, huge improvement
Ryan what planet did you come from bro??? Always enjoy listening to your knowledge base buddy.
Fun fact Weatherby vanguard 2 is not free floated but the Howa 1500 is. Same exact gun.
240 Weatherby Mag has a pencil barrel and forend pressure point. Shoots a lot better with the pressure.
When are Muckenhirn Tees coming out? If I buy a Razor HD will you include one with purchase? Is there a Muckenhirn signature series scope available with Ryan's actual signature on the bell? Thanks for your consideration. Submitted tongue-in-cheek and with good humor. Keep up the great work guys!
Is there anything that can be done to help accuracy of a Browning BAR?
I want to know your opinions on if left handed bolt actions are needed for left handed shooters.
Are any of them left handed? From what I’ve heard, it’s just a preference thing.
The SPS .308 I have seen a lot of stock swap. Has anyone tried shaving via dremel, the factory stock.
Hi guys, my Weatherby Vanguard 2 is not free floated and lights out all the time.
So good in fact that I bought a number of calibers.
My 243, 223, are sub sub MOA.
Best bang for the buck I believe.
How so I keep my scope from getting off set on my 223 floating barrell
My Barret Fieldcraft is the most accurate gun I own and I'd argue it's the best mountain rifle out there. It's also full length bedded.
What's with the Spam on the shelf?
It's called harmonic's of the barrel. think of a tuning fork. it vibrates when you tap it but if it touches something it stops. When you send a bullet down the barrel it vibrates perfectly eliminating the movement of the barrel due to the rifling effect . You will see on older Rifles they used what they called harmonic' rods that ran down the length of the barrel. I don't know how well they worked, but that was there reasoning
Perfec👍
The trouble with you youthful gentlefolks is that most have not been alive long enough to appreciate the beauty of blued steel and walnut. Still I usually enjoy your podcasts.
How about guns with two piece stocks ie Remington pumps, many lever guns, Ruger #1s etc. I even have a single shot Savage/Anschutz Mark 12 .22LR single shot target rifle whose bull barrel is screwed to the wooden stock in two places and none to the receiver (free floated receiver?). That gun is quite consistent but not terribly accurate which quite likely has something to do with a loose nut behind the scope.
I’ve been having problems with my Winchester Model 70 featherweight in 30-06. I shot it last week and the first 3 shots were almost touching. My next 3 were 3 inches apart. Now I’m thinking that may have been from resting my hand on top of the scope which caused downward pressure on the wooden for-member that contacts the stock. I was all set to free float it, but I think I’ll go back out to the range and be more observant of where I put my hands. I’ll make sure I’m not putting any downward pressure on the front portion of the stock. Hopefully that’s what’s wrong.
That definitely could be what's going on. What kind of rest are you using to shoot out of (bipod, sand bags, weighted gun vise, etc.)? Also, what did you torque your ring screws down to and did you use any Loctite?
refer to "Gun Blue 490" YT channel . he had the exact same problem with his model 70 Winchester in 30-06
go to "should you free float your rifle"
It’s heat in the barrel after 3 shots .
I have a M77 mark 2 chambered in .243 win that I free floated and man was that a mistake, it was a good shooter before I took the sand paper to it...smh it now sets in the safe thinking about re barreling it or getting a new stock for it.
I have an old M77, tang safety. When I was a kid I used a tooth pick to dab lithium grease all the way around the barrel. My thought was To keep water out. Wood stock. Always, always been great shooter. Last year I refinished the stock and replaced the grease. Still great shooter. Anyway I wonder if you lined the cavity with grease, let it dry if it might shoot better. Worth a try before you replaced the stock
Free floating a barrel allows more cooling area under the barrel and helps the barrel stay the same temperature all around. (And stay straight at normal temperatures)
On a Romanian Dragonov, it will shoot scary good for the first three shots, then start throwing them all over as the temperature changes and the barrel moves around. After it cools it goes back to accurate for 3 rounds again. Free floating means nothing on these as the barrel profile is so skinny and the top mounted gas cylinder gives the barrel a kick with every shot. Full bedding a custom stock would be just as bad. Moral: Start with a good barrel in the first place!
Melvin Forbes NULA are also not free floated. My NULA is the most consistent gun I have. Will shoot about anything I load for it to hunting accuracy, and some loads well under an inch.
Free floating is obviously useful for high volume competition or varmint shooting. But on a typical hunting rifle neglectable, if the rifle's harmonics are properly done, eg. no Blaser K95 has a free floating barrell and yet they are all exceptional accurate hunting rifles.
Pleas do a #10MinuteTalk on the mighty .222 Remington.
I don’t thing most “high volume” manufacturers want to properly do the harmonics, hence why a $400 Ruger American is free floated (badly).
@@509Gman You get what you pay for and the amount of performance the Ruger American deliveres at that price point is really good. One cannot expect 4.000$ performance out of a 400$ gun.
What about when the barrel heats after shooting would that not cause barrel deflection
Absolutely it could. Especially if there is uneven contact between the barrel and stock once it heats up
My Weatherby Vangaurd is not a free floating barrel and shoots sub moa all day.
I always free float my barrels and sometimes even my optics
Free floating my barrel used to be standard practice.
I free floated many rifles & always had very good results.
Then one day, I free floated one & it shot much more inconsistently. So be careful.
So I’ve got an Israeli M98 in 7.62 that shoots 3/4 MOA every day of the week (in highly humid Queensland) with the stock pressing on the right hand side of the barrel channel. Go figure
I would say that if you have a synthetic hand bedded stock especially in a magnum chambering, you may be better served without a free floated barrel and with a #3 tapered sporting barrel? Probably not a good idea to free float. To many, and big nodes and antinodes.
Weatherby Vanguard Meat Eater: not free floated and sub MOA at 200, 300 yards.
Have never seen a F-class or benchrest rifle with fully bedded barrel channel.
Barret fieldcraft non-floated too.
I see wood stocks that are sealed on the outside only. I imagine the whole stock should be sealed to prevent humid conditions from causing swelling and movement.
Look at "Log cabin looms" videos. He is an old timer that believes in Pine Tar and Boiled linseed oil, for conditioning his stocks. Then he uses a torch to burn the mixture INTO the wood.
Basically the mixture FEEDS the wood, rather than just putting a coating on it.
It is what old time baseball players used to do to their bats to get great results.
He has some interesting results.
Every rifle I have, have been glass bedded and free floated. Pressure bridges make my guns shoot terrible.
What’s up! Let’s hear it Ryan.
EC TUNER BREAK. That's the ticket !!to make any rifle and any load weight or brand like each other . First hand the ectuner break works. Get 1 y'all and u will all be shooting 1,4inch groups
🤷🏼♂️ I love my non-freefloated 20” AR
Please give explanation for decreased performance with decreased barrel contact. This goes against the physics involved. If you are referring to weight increase on the front end of the weapon increasing performance I can accept. That said lack of barrel contact (continuous not intermittent) should not be able to decrease performance.
If a wood stock has been "Stabilized" it will be as impervious to the elements as a plastic stock would be possible even more so. Stabilizing wood is the process of removing all the air and replacing it with some sort of polymer effectively turning it into a composite.
Is it there any advantage over a fiberglass or carbon fiber stock?
@@christopherascherl2411 Its probably stronger but its going to be heavy. Great for a target rifle maybe slightly less so for a hunting rifle that you have to lug around. You could sand it without worrying too much about a finish so if you wanted to customize the stock you could do that pretty easily just put a new clear coat on afterwords to make it smooth again. Or you could just take it to a buffing wheel afterwords no finish necessary.
@@Bshwag A fiberglass or metal chassis still seams like a better option for target stocks, you can distribute the weight for better stability vs being equally distributed unless the cost is an advantage.
@@christopherascherl2411 You may be right. All I really know is stabilized wood is a very durable material that is easy to produce even at home. You could even take a wood stock you already have, stripe the finish off and stabilize it.
Oh, boy! :-)
I.ll take a bed and pillar barrel any day guys. Mine stock on bolt action high grade walnut pistol grip bed a spot in stock and aluminum bedding pillar bolted down and stock treated for mositure barrel floats just about it for a dollar bill to slide up and down under barrel.
Is your rifle bedded
Vortex podcast........it’s a creedmoor
223 WSSM and Factory Rifles
This talk was longer than 10 minutes I want my money back
Free float all the things
Free floated barrel is not a given for accuracy, have a old 340 savage in 222,barrel band holding barrel to stock and old weaver 4 power and on bags will put 5 shots in a half dollar all day long,and was last cleaned maybe twenty years ago. What will help is how you titen the screws on stock to receiver front tite middle no,rear not as tite as front. Instead of bedding sand barrel channel on stock to the start of the barrel taper,not much.
Maybe