I work in customer service and our company tries very hard to satisfy our guests. Your review was thoughtful and you tried your best to give Harvey every benefit of the doubt. They can use your information to improve their product. The responses you got from their customer service reveals either that the representative was not provided with solutions to offer you, or the company isn't committed to providing a premium product. We can tell that it pains you to give such a poor review but in the end it was Harveys responsibility to satisfy their customer.
GREAT review! I picked up a used Incra V27 last year for $25 (score!). I added the 18” telescoping fence and flip stop. I ran into the same issue with adjusting the fence. Incra now offers ratchet lever knobs which work great for tool-less adjustments, I’ve added them to my gauge. It’s an optional accessory, but it should definitely be standard issue.
OOOOHHHHH Stumpy is reviewing your review on the harvey gauge. You are in trouble!!!!!!! FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT!!!!! No not really. That gap seems to be the issue.
These “non-sponsored “ reviews is exactly what the woodworking community needs. There are so many sponsored ( financial or just get something for free) reviews on social media that it’s hard to determine what is real and what is not. Thanks for this and A+ presentation.
Powermatic couldn't care less about me doing a miter gauge review. :) I started planning this in the Fall, well before I even knew the PM sponsorship was ending.
I would say that the non-sponsored reviews are key. Understandably content creators do rely on sponsors to offer the content and quality of content they offer. This was a hefty investment on Marcs part and although he has since sold the gauges, having an unbiased opinion offered on each has helped me to purchase a gauge that is appropriate. I won't name any companies specifically but for me I went through a table saw search process earlier this year. Based on reviews and woodworkers involved, I almost bit the bullet and purchased. I am sure happy that I did not as it has since come out through numerous mediums that said company produces junk and most would not have the saw in their shop if it weren't for sponsorship. Because of this I turned cheek. I am thankful that Marc did this and hope that his new ability to bring in outside tool companies will allow more honest and open reviews of products. The community truly needs it and like Marc says, he never wants to bash a company, but instead highlight where they are strong and where they might not be so strong.
Marc, I tip my hat to you. I can't really imagine being in the position you are in this community. With how influential you've been you've put yourself in a tough spot for things like this. I think a lot of folks would head in a different direction and try to make the companies happy instead of providing the consumer with an accurate take. I'm just a random guy on the internet but thanks for being honest and putting your integrity first. Great video!
I own the Harvey Compass and have been underwhelmed, so I thank you for saying what needed to be said- and you should not apologize or feel bad for your words! This alone helped me confirm "it's not just me [or a product abnormality ]." The price point alone should demand better response to existing and not just future customers.
Marc, by this time you have obviously seen Stumpy's review of your review. While he didn't specify say your name, his rebuttal was definitely centered on his relationship with Harvey and his experiences. Now I really like both of you, your videos and your work. I didn't see any bias in anything you said and I think your sincerity for feeling bad for a bad review was honest. But if you're going to pay north of $300, you should get something that cooks your dinner as well as performs flawlessly. I can tell you, this review saved me over $100. Thank you and keep up the good work. God bless and be safe
Stumpy's major sponsor sent him a 100% perfect hand-picked sample for free. Oddly, there was no fault with it. His video and responses to comments have lost him many subscribers, including me.
It just saved me from buying it. I'm not much of a woodworker, but need something good for the saw at work, and have the funding to get something that is accurate and lasts a long time. I've always been a buy-once-cry-once kinda guy, and it has always paid off for me. I hadn't even considered some of the obvious that was stated in this video. It's a shame, because it looks very nice.
As an amateur on a budget, I've always been intimidated by the prices of aftermarket miter gauges. This was a huge help in getting me to understand what I'm getting at these price points.
promptly clearing my morning schedule. Update: Someone needs to check on Harvey (insert Michael Scott: "Theres been a murda" gif) But seriously amazing work on this one. That was quite the undertaking and its much appreciated.
Thank you for the thorough and honest review. As an incra user, I wanted to offer one tip I recently discovered - they sell what they call a “ratchet lever knob set” that allows one to convert several of the adjustments to tool-less knobs instead of having to find that always-elusive screwdriver.
Great review, in todays world you are exactly what is needed- there is enough false advertising and product reviews out there, the Star rating system is worthless for the most part. Thank you for the honest effort to show how reviews should be done.
I cannot begin to tell you how much I appreciate the videos like this that you do. The "buy this not that" videos also are wildly invaluable. For woodworkers like me who want to buy quality products and tools, but still live within a budget well, I can't thank you enough. I've been watching your videos for years and you never disappoint. Keep up the great work, Mark.
I think you went incredibly easy on Harvy. For that price point, everything should be absolutely perfect. The stuff you pointed out just seem obvious from a manufacturing standpoint. Hopefully Harvy watches this video and immediately begin to redesign everything you talked about. Really all they need to do is tighten up some tolerances, and tweak a few details. Harvy, you can do better, you have the bones of something awesome if you just pay attention to details.
Watch the rebuttal video by Stumpy Nubs. You are correct....at that price point one can expect perfection, but even high-end products have a miss during quality inspection. Remember, this video is based on the evaluation of a sample of one......statistically a meaningless survey. That sample should be returned to Harvey for recalibration (at no charge of course) and I'm sure that it would perform as well as the thousands (yes, I said thousands) of pieces of this design that have been sold.
@@superczech Marc did ask his facebook supporters and a few echoed his problems. But the biggest issue was how dismissive Harvy was. At that price point you should expect a company to send you a new one with a self addressed label to return the old one. I know lesser companies that take better care of their customers. As Marc said, Harvy isn't competing with stock miter gauges. Incra trashes Harvy in usability and price.
@@ouisi7 Pretty much this -- the slop I can see can account for a manufacturing or even assembly defect, the angled fence is subjective and I think the length is neglible. As far as engineering and use is concerned, the stop and the gauge gap marking leave a lot to be desired at this price point and, to me, seem fairly obvious at any price point...but above all, the poor customer support is what is most disappointing. We're trusting Marc at his word, but I have little reason to doubt him.
@@superczech Harvey should have offered to fix it, the fact that they didn’t says that is just how the product is. These are mostly design problems not manufacturing problems anyway.
Thank you for this review. While I'm nowhere near your skill level of woodworking, I do consider myself a woodworker and like an idiot, I listened to other "Harvey sponsored" videos and got sucked into the shear visual beauty of the MG-36. I now own it and get similar results as you described, but before seeing this video, I simply thought it has to be something I'm doing wrong. Clearly there are others that getting having lousy results(for this price point) as well. Now, I'm not "happy" to hear of others getting negative results, I'm just happy to hear I'm not alone. So thank you again! I love seeing what you guys are up to on this channel. Keep up the good work!
The fact that I watched this movie is a testament to how well done it is. Kind of shocked that there doesn't exist a perfect miter gauge, but the Incra sounds like a great option. I hope some of the manufacturers will watch this and take your suggestions under consideration.
Yea I really don't get it. Just from this review we could assemble a "perfect" one. Take the micro adjust from the Harvey, make the bar longer, use tool-less adjustments, etc. etc. I wonder if there are patent issues preventing these companies from doing their own version of this review and then combining all of the best bits into the "perfect" miter gauge?
@@barryomahony4983 I have not one but three crosscut sleds. One’s for dados, another is a bit large for everyday use, and the third is smaller, and more typically what I need. For 90º cuts. But I do have occasion to do miters, and have a project coming up wherein reproducible “odd” angles are a must. Thus, for me, at any rate, this review is gold.
This is the first time I have felt a need to comment on one of your videos, but I have to say you did an excellent job with this review. You focused on the issues that are actually important to woodworkers, regardless of the degree of accuracy they like to work to. Also, don't feel bad for the manufacturers, your video is true to your viewers and that is where your allegiance belongs (and where you always put it). I'm only sorry I can't give you multiple thumbs up.
Ditto. Marc's integrity constantly shows through. He paid for all them himself, and gave us the good news and bad. When I heard him apologize to the manufacturers for the bad comments, I thought "He's real. He's not being a sycophant towards a sponsor, nor a jerk towards some company with which he has a grudge." Well done, Marc.
+1 about not feeling bad, and your integrity remaining clear throughout. Your critiques were fair and reasonable, you acknowledge that they may be one-off units, and you gave the companies opportunities to make it right. Everything totally above board, and you've given feedback that is actionable - not unfounded complaining.
All I ask in tool reviews (or any video for that matter) is honesty and declarations of sponsorship or bias. You have consistently done that for as long as I have been watching your works, and it is truly appreciated. While I am not in the market for a miter gauge today, it is an item I would like to upgrade in the future, and you provided some excellent information to help that future decision making process.
I've been using the Incra 1000 SE for years and I absolutely love it. Mark, you were more than gracious with your review of the Harvey gauge, and you're right- it's important to remember that people are behind the product and just because the product itself doesn't meet our standards, that doesn't mean we should hog-pile the company; and I certainly don't believe that anyone who genuinely listened to you would believe that that was your intent with your review. Let's hope Harvey takes your constructive criticism to heart and improve.
A couple tips for use of the Incra miter gauges: Put a wee drop of oil in the tapered seat of the nylon washer where the head wedges it apart. This makes it much easier to expand the washer as designed. Second: lightly stone the sides of the slots on your cast iron table saw top. This will remove the microscopic machining burrs and diminish wear on the radiused bearing surfaces of the washers. My Incra 1000 SD has been relegated right-of-blade slot usage now and the Jessem is my go-to gauge. I bought the Harvey months before Marc released this video and promptly returned it for reasons he mentions, as well as other significant ones he doesn't.
Thanks for taking the time to do this review and thanks for the honest feedback. Regarding the Harvey gauge, you reached out to customer service before posting the video. You did your part. Your feedback was honest & fair. Thanks!
Hey Marc, long time lurker here. I just wanted to commend and thank you for your honesty and integrity. I don’t own a table saw and have never done any woodworking. I watch because I enjoy the content and would some day like to start. It’s uncomfortable to provide criticism, especially on a public platform. I think you’ve gone about this in the best way possible; remaining objective in your findings, yet empathetic to the people behind the product. The criticism not only provides valuable feedback to the manufacturers, but allows the average hobbyist(who aren’t going to spend $1500 on miter gauges) the information necessary to make an informed purchase decision. It’s a double edged sword, but I appreciate your willingness to fall on that blade. We need more people like you in all facets of life. Thanks for putting this together. I’m looking forward to future content in the same vein.
Possibly the best review on any topic that you've done. No need to apologize to anyone. I'm sure it is humbling for manufacturers but well qualified feedback is what will make them better. Keep up the excellent work Marc.
Marc, I really wanted to compliment you on your professionalism in this video. Of course your breakdown of the features and fine points shows a keen eye. But I’m also impressed with the level of humility and disclaimers in the video. I can only imagine that everything you’ve ever said has been picked apart and second guessed so many times that you can predict the snipes and jibes you’re going to get. I also appreciate the sensitivity to the companies and employees you showed, despite the unsparing evaluation of their product. Nice human touch. The editing on this video is also fantastic. The different visual angles perfectly demonstrate each point as you narrate it, and keep a pace that’s easy to follow but still snappy. Really great work here. You operate at a high level.
I bought the JessEm Mite-R-Excel II a year ago. When I put it together and tested for square it looked square. Just to be sure I did the 5-cut method with a 12-inch plywood square. It was off by 0.0006" over 11.25 inches. That's more than good enough, so I left it alone. It is a pleasure to use.
I have two miter gauges, an Incra Miter 5000 cross-cut sled, and a small cross-cut sled that I built. I test them from time to time to make sure they are still in tolerance. Unfortunately the JessEm came way out of square in a move. I was able to readjust it, but it was very fiddley. Ironically, My most accurate miter gauge Is an Incra V27 that I bought over 12 years ago; it doesn't come with a fence. It can be bought directly from Incra for $75. I used a 3/4" piece of Appleply as a fence; when tested a few months ago it had an error rate of 0.00001" per inch (the JessEm is 0.00002" per inch). Katz-Moses says that any deviation from 90º of 0.03º or less is too small to see light through a Starrett square. That corresponds to an error rate of 0.00005" per inch.
I had a 10" Dewalt compound miter saw for around 12 years (light duty). It still works great ua-cam.com/users/postUgkxPeGkHOMe05FySypTOvYumxMn-xi39oRe but I wanted something bigger. My only complaint about the 10" was the location of the motor, and this version fixes that issue. The XPS system works well. My only request for future versions is a dust collection port (or adapter) that fits large shop vac hoses (or standard PVC pipe fittings) a little better. But that's not a complaint, just a request.
As an engineer, I see this review as an incredible opportunity for improvement. Your experience highlights what is important, what is not and demonstrates that the solutions exist, though not on any single miter gauge (though a couple come close). Keep up the good work.
Good review Marc, you don’t owe those companies anything and I appreciate your honesty. It’s really a breath of fresh air. I wish there were more reviews like this one.
Hands down one of the most honest, thorough, and respectful reviews I have ever watched. Also reassuring since I ended up getting the incra1000se last year after lots of research and second guessing. Thank you for always keeping it real!
Yeah... we're all feeling badly for the poor fellas who just bought or received the Harvey for $319 (or $359) for Christmas. Reviews like this are invaluable and sometimes painful.
You just did something no reviewer on UA-cam has the balls to do. You said DO NOT BUY SOMETHING. In guns, cars parts, wood or metal working, NO UA-camR SHILL has the balls to do that. You just bought yourself some real credibility in my book. Very well done.
Thanks for doing this Marc! I've been looking at miter gauges for a year and have hesitated because I don't want to spend 200$ on a bad gauge. Very helpful review.
Just found your channel and I am impressed and thankful for these reviews. However I find myself extremely frustrated with the things you reveal. I’ve always tried to buy on the cheap, and in recent days I told myself STOP buying junk. You can’t polish a turd. So now I save and save to buy the nicest I can afford. These high end companies have an ethical obligation not to deceive the average Joe into spending their hard earned and saved $ only to find they have duped by high prices and fancy talk. Again I absolutely applaud and appreciate what your are doing.
for what its worth, I sat through this entire thing, almost an hour. Why is this a big deal for me? ADHD and I'm not medicated yet. Thanks for making it entertaining, educational, and as short as possible (I really mean that!). What a great video, and I am more confident in my purchase of the incra 1000se.
This was an amazing and in-depth video. As somebody who is in the market for a mitre gauge right now you really helped change my mind. I did have my eye on the Kreg - thank goodness you saved me there. Also, don't sweat the negative reviews. Share facts (you did), and state when you have preferences/opinions (you're allowed to have these when you spend your own money on things). We all appreciate the candid, open, and honest review. My wife (in the background as I am watching this video) - "Oh my god, stop waffling. Just say you don't like it and move on!" - Just be authentic and be willing to backup your claims (your measurements, photographic evidence, follow-up with the companies etc.) should be more than enough to back you up if these companies complain. At the end of the day you're highlighting ways in which they can make a better product. Be bold and be brave, these are the facts we need!
Agree, since when did it become a crime to have an honest opinion. As long as you're being fair, no need to be nancyboys about it, or pre-apologize that your going to possibly offend someone and maybe they should go to a safe space.
I have owned the Incra 1000SE for several years and agree with the comments on the additional tool needed as well as the difficult to use knobs on the stop. I want to thank Marc for showing me the mico adjust though, never knew it was there!!
Thanks for your entertaining and informative videos. Your reviews are like Consumer Reports for woodworkers; detail rich and evidence based. You hit the nail square when you briefly mentioned the price of a high-end miter gauge approaching the price of a miter saw. However, like many of your subscribers I imagine, I have a two car garage for a shop and can't leave my miter saw set up all the time. Having an accurate and repeatable miter gauge for the table saw, that I can quickly grab, is a true timesaver. I've been using a Jess Em Mite-R-Excel II for about a year and it has proven itself to be as you describe, a well-made tool that makes operations requiring a miter gauge quick and easy. It may be on the higher end pricewise, but for me it's been money well spent.
2022 where you have to apologize for your honest review, just in case someone gets offended. You went above and beyond with your constructive criticisms. Thanks for the great content!
Excellent review! I’ve done framing and some minor trim work since I was literally 10, but when it comes to the kind of work you true woodworkers do I am a true noob. I just completely tore down my dads Craftsman table saw (that was under 14’ of water in Katrina) and completely rebuilt it. I need a miter gauge and was in the process of buying one on your list when I looked up reviews on UA-cam and saw this great video. Saved me from wasting $200! Thanks! And just to be clear, me spending $200 on a miter gauge for someone like me to use is like handing a 7 year old a $600 baseball bat.
Thank you so much for a very thorough review. You hit the nail on the head with almost every point. I think it's important to understand that the real winner here is each of the companies themselves. You literally just handed them a blueprint of what they need to do to produce a top notch product.
I have had the Kreg for years. When ever I want to torture myself I would try to get it squared up. I thought it was something I was going wrong. Can never get it to be true. Now I know it’s a bad design, and to quit wasting my time with it. Thanks for the work that went into this video.
Woah. They had to know who you were. I can't believe they didn't open the replacement before they sent it to you. This is a wholly brilliant video/review. Thanks!
I've watched A LOT of your videos, but neve felt the need to comment. But i need to thank you for your honesty. Most reviews like this have some kind of bias, and i saw none of that here. Also, i can't believe that video was almost an hour long, it felt like maybe 20 minutes 😶 You are as entertaining as you are knowledgeable. Keep doing what you're doing, its greatly appreciated 👏
A really fantastic review. I love we will ALWAYS know when you have a dog in the race and still get your honest opinion on that dog. If that dog can't run, it simply can't run. Great job at serving all of us, your customer.
Here’s what I’d like to say man. I watch a ton of reviews. That was simply the best, in-depth and honest review I think I’ve ever seen. Fantastic job! I appreciate you not wanting to offend those company’s but…crap is crap and junk is junk. This should, if they’re for real, get them off their butts and fix it.
I rarely watch a video this long all the way through. I'm glad I did with this one. I have both the Woodcraft version and the Incra V-27 with a telescoping fence. They both work flawlessly for me. I'm glad I didn't spend big money on the Harvey version. No need for apologizing for not liking the ones that fell short. Thanks for a great comparison Marc.
Thanks for the review. I just canceled my Harvey Compass order which is backordered until late February. I did watch the Stumpy Nubs video as well, but I think I will wait until they fix some of these issues. It is clear that they still have some work to do despite what Stumpy Nubs says. Keep up the honest reviews.
A superb review of each member of a sizable range of options, including most if not all of the more notable names/brands out there. Also very timely for me-I happen to be researching which miter gauge might come to live with me in the near future. I was surprised at the problems with both the Kreg and the Harvey devices. That the Kreg cannot be calibrated (at least without major surgery) is…an automatic failing grade, as far as I’m concerned. So it has gone from “serious consideration” to exile. The Harvey gauge was even more bothersome-not just in the number and types of problems, as well as, frankly, more limited precision, but rather poor customer service. And nothing, but nothing, turns me off more quickly than poor customer service. So it, too, is banished into the Dark Realm. Why do I share this so specifically? Because this review did the sorts of things I most value in a review, and it made my decision-making easier. So, my review grade for this review? Full-on A. I’d have given an A+ except for the cowboy schtick. ;-) Just kidding. Mostly.
I wouldn't worry about the employees of a company that makes a poor quality or ineffective tool, worry about the people who spend their hard earned money on a defective tool. As a business if you don't want bad press don't make a sh*tty product! It's their job to to take care of their employees, not yours or ours!! Not too mention in the case of Harvey their employees are mostly in China. Thank you for taking the time to make such an in depth review! I am glad that you were very thoughtful and spoke with the voice of experience!
Thanks for this review! I came here after seeing "Stumpy's" response. It is clear that there is something seriously wrong with the unit that you reviewed, and their lack of support is blaring. The take away for me is that Harvey indeed makes an amazing miter gauge provided that you don't get one of the ones that has the gap. That is both encouraging and frustrating. I would like to hear Harvey respond to this whole mess. As a professional woodworker, I want to own the best tool for the job, but I also need to know that I have the necessary support should something go wrong. I am in the market for a new miter gauge right now, and I am leaning toward the Jessum because of this whole kerfuffle. If the Jessum had the micro adjust it would already be in my shop. Also let me acknowledge how challenging it must have been for you to put out this video! Thanks again!
This is an excellent video and it's clearly visible that you don't get pleasure from talking about the negative experiences. I've had that Kreg miter gauge for about four years. Mine is off exactly like yours. I have never been able to use the positive stops. I rely on tightening the handle to keep it in aligned. I'm shopping for a new miter gauge now and this video is very helpful. Thanks for all you do.
Whew! I bought my miter gauge before watching this very informative video. Thankfully, it was the 1000SE. Your no-nonsense comparison is greatly appreciated. Thanks.
Harvey dropped the ball in Qaulity Control and customer service. The tone of Customer Service usually comes from the top. I will not recommend, or buy Harvey products until they show a pattern of treating us better. Love that honest word of mouth - I'm guessing they don't ..smarten up Harvey
*Calibrating the Kreg:* They say it doesn't need calibration, but you found otherwise. However the bit of video @17:36 shows two black screws that might afford some adjustment... that is if they are screws and not some semi-hollow rivets. Assuming screws, adjust the miter gauge to be perfect using the large knob, ignoring what the scale says. Then loosen the two black screws and slide the little vernier scale back and forth so the two zeros line up. Might have to enlarge the screw holes to give more adjustment. This is a timely video. Just bought a table saw whose weakest feature is the crap miter gauge, so knew I'd need to buy a good one. Thanks for your hard work.
Great video. I love the in-depth review of each and that you called out the issues. If nobody calls out these companies and hold them to a higher standard then they won't change. Being how well respected you are in the community hopefully all of these manufacturers will make revisions. I personally own the Rocker miter gauge, i never noticed the slop but i'm definitely going to look for it now.
You are a person that I can say is caring, honest, and put a lot of passion into what you do. Thank you for your honesty. This video provided a lot of useful information.
Marc, thanks so much for this. Well done and a great help. I would not feel too bad about criticizing faults in any of the products, especially the Harvey. At the price they are asking, they need to come up with a superior product. The faults you pointed out just can't be excused. They need to take a serious look at their product and LISTEN to the points you made.
Wow. I just watched a 56 minute video about miter gauges - and liked it! This type of review is perfect for guys like me for whom price is a major obstacle. My skill level probably only slightly higher than Beavis and Butthead would exhibit so I'd always have my doubts - is it the tool that's off or is it me? I'd hate to spend over $200 only to find out after a couple months worth of frustration that nope - its the tool. "A good craftsman never blames his tools" but sometimes it really is the tool.
As always, a great review. I have both the JessEm and Incra. I bought the JessEm years ago and I love it. The Incra 1000SE is nice, but not as nice as the JessEm, I now use the Incra exclusively on my router table. Thanks again
Thank you for your very detailed and honest review! This is what the world needs to keep people like me from throwing away hard-earned money on hyped-up products!
Great review! Another nice thing about being in the Incra system is that both the fence and micro-adjustable stop-block are available separately and therefore upgradeable. I've got the 1000HD, which comes with the 18-31" fence, but purchased the 27-49" fence (standard on the 3000SE) for a very reasonable price ($75 shipped). I put it on when I need it, and use the original fence when I don't since the shorter fence is less of a snag hazard.
GREAT tip!! I was leaning towards the Incra and did not know the parts were interchangeable. I my do the same thing and start out with the smaller fence first.
I bought the Kreg 3 or 4 years ago, and never loved it. It was never square and couldn’t get it shimmed square. I just got the Incra 1000SE and love it. Thanks for your honest review. Wish you had done this three years ago.
Thank you for this, Marc. I've been looking forward to the shootout. I'd like to add my experiences with a couple of gauges here. First, when I started my business almost four years ago, the first table saw accessory I bought was the Kreg miter gauge....and it was terrible. I had the same problems you had as well as the view window on the scale could not move far enough to set the gauge. There's definitely an issue in manufacturing and/or quality control. Secondly, I decided to cash in on the Harvey sale and buy their miter gauge last year. I didn't have the same problems you did, but I have certainly seen some others have those issues since. It's a shame to see such drastic variances with a product that pricey. Of course I found things I like and dislike about the product as well over the course of the past year using it, but it's one of those things that I probably should have gone another direction than "OH MY GOD LOOK HOW AWESOME IT LOOKS! IT'S LIKE A DAEDRIC MITER GAUGE!!" Anyway...thanks for doing this. I don't know how many woodworkers would do this kind of testing. It's much appreciated! And maybe use the money get back from the gauges on a date night haha!
I bought the first incra you showed her. At first I thought I may had made a mistake and should had bought the second one but I think I can rig a better stop on this. The one thing that impressed me the most is how they have precise positive stops. There is no guess work or relying on bad eyes. Thanks for the video, I know it cost you a lot to buy all of these just to educate us. I appreciate your help.
WOW. As always excellent and informative. I've learned soo much watching you and continue to learn from you. I've had the Kreg Miter Gauge for several year now and have never been fully satisfied with it. I've been able to "adjust" the square by pushing it with my left hand and tightening the handle with my right. Not an ideal method. I've been down in the rabbit hole of just accepting that "this is how miter gauges are" just deal with it!. After watching this video I'll be replacing the Kreg with the Incra 1000SE. Marc, thank you for providing me with yet another AH HA moment.
Thank you for your honesty, you’ve certainly earned our respect. If the manufacturers of tools want us to purchase their products, they’d better start listening.
I know it's been a while but man I love this video. I love the honest review the appreciation that you have for the material and the people who put the work in great job!
Mark - you present the data and we can make up our own minds. That’s all we can ask as content consumers. You’ve done that. Kudos and thank you. PS. My miter gauge goes to 11! Problem solved.
I’m so glad I found this review. I’ve been pulling my hair out over analyzing the Harvey vs. JessEm miter gauges. I was leaning towards Harvey until yesterday, when I had the opportunity to actually hold the JessEm and feel it’s quality first hand. Then, finding this review and hearing what you had to say about the Harvey has pretty much sealed the deal for my JessEm purchase. Thanks for being honest, and providing a no basis opinion.
After seeing several videos defending the Harvey gauge that were sparked by this video . I had to come back for a second comment .to thank you for posting your honest unbiased results even though I sure you knew there would be those who disagreed . And you presented it in such a respectful manner hat those who did post a video response were respectful in return . There might be a bigger lesson here that goes beyond miter gauges ,,,, in short very well done and thank you !
Excellent piece of work. That is how you conduct a professional objective review of a set of products. I understand your hesitance to offer harsh critique, but in this case it was warranted and required. Well done.
Thanks for the honest review. You identified two issues with these mitre gauges: I) design issues, and ii) quality control issues. A design issue would be that there is no provision to adjust the gauge relative to the fence, or the components are 'flimsy'. The quality control issue is that it is not square. Some of these gauges had both. Thanks again
This was a fantastic non biased in depth review. Definitely need more like this. Too bad it’s not practical to do big machines. I had the Harvey and ditched it after 11 months of trying to love it. I just couldn’t get past all the minor issues. There are just too many and although minor, they have a huge impact on the performance and accuracy. It’s a beautiful tool and the packaging is impressive. However, the packaging did not transfer to the actual tool. They should’ve put less thought into the packaging and more into the tool. For the cost of it, you expect a lot better product. It’s more of a $75 dollar tool. My cheap Grizzly miter gauge is more accurate and precise than the Harvey. I thought maybe I just got a bad one but judging by the review, it appears they just make a terrible miter gauge. I ended going with the JessEm and I’d say Marks observations with it are again accurate. I would love to see a micro-adjust but i hand it on my Harvey and i used it once. Maybe it’s because I wasn’t used to it or maybe I didn’t like it because it wasn’t designed well but I was more concerned about accuracy. The JessEm comes in cheaper than the Harvey and you can definitely tell straight out of the box that it was very very well engineered. I have no experience with Incra but as mark subtly pointed out, it’s quite dated. It also looks dated too. I know, looks aren’t the important thing but when you spend that kind of money, aesthetics help you justify the cost. I highly recommend the JessEm and I have absolutely no buyers remorse or regret of any kind. Well done Mark!
I have a Harvey experience that I think is worth sharing. I recently bought one of their table saws for a lot of reasons, but the miter gauge is what pushed me towards them. Everything was delivered except the miter gauge and that’s when I saw this video. I emailed Harvey to find out what was going on and based on this video I asked if I could have a refund for the value of the miter gauge in place of receiving the device, I thought that was fair considering I was looking at a 2+ month back order. I received the same response if basically blowing me off. I followed it up with a nice response asking to escalate the matter and get a supervisor involved. A day or two later Mikey from Harvey called me to ask what they could do to make things right. We talked back and forth, even referencing this video and ultimately they offered a store credit in place of the miter gauge. They handled the situation very well and I am happy and impressed with their customer service, it just took a little pushing to get to the right people. They did say they were aware of the issues this video brought up and I was assured they are making steps to address many of the issues brought up here.
Another great review! I love my Incra 1000HD and have used it for several years now. I just added the Incra cross cut sled, even though I've made several good sleds, this allows about 18" crosscuts as the sled can sit in miter slot at end of table! The 1000HD fits right in the slot in the sled and is easily removed. Awesome sled and miter combo!
I purchased the Harvey Ambassador 14” bandsaw three months ago based on Stumpy Nubs’ review (plus other’s) and agree with your assessment of their customer service, it’s handled by the receptionist as far as I could tell. The saw is great after about 10 hours of set-up and tuning on my part, admittedly I couldn’t spend the time to do everything in one shot so it took 4 days to complete. This was expected as I have made a career setting up machinery and know it will never arrive correctly adjusted. I wired in a 15’ #12 SO cable to replace the 3 foot cord supplied and discovered the factory had improperly wired the motor starter. They only used 2 legs of the 3 phase starter for a single phase motor which can cause premature death of the starter and potentially not allow the starter to open in a low voltage situation. I called Harvey and let the receptionist know about the issue and was told I would get a call from tech support; never heard back. But I do like the saw and would buy from them again, just not their miter gage.
I always appreciate your honesty when comes these reviews! Hopefully all these companies take reviews like this seriously and make changes where necessary to produce, manufacture, and control quality. Honesty its "free-ish" R&D for them
I am so glad I watched your video. I just happened to buy the Kreg Miter Gauge but I did not set it up. I measured the miter gauge and it was not square just like the one you presented. This has saved me a lot of grief. I am sending it back to Amazon and getting JessEm. Thanks, jd
I appreciate your measured response to Harvey's customer "service." Seems to me it doesn't bode well for us mortal makers trying to get service from them. Thanks for your informative reviews.
Thanks for all your effort in these reviews. Greatly appreciated. As a side note, I'd add that I'm really no fan of miter bars that rely on nylon screws for tightening in the slot. It might be fine if the screws never exit the slot, but for jigs/fixtures that get pulled far back, repeated exit/entry from/into the slot just grinds them down over time and you end up with inevitable slop. This was my experience with the Kreg aluminum miter bar (which I purchased separately for a sled) so even if you hadn't come upon other shortcomings of the Kreg, I would have eliminated it from my list. Perhaps ironically, your reviews have convinced me just to stick to crosscut sled for 90 deg cuts, my 45 deg sled for mitered corners, and my miter saw for other angles. So your effort has helped me make a non-purchasing decision. Just as valuable.
Thanks for the effort you put into this. I recall considering both the Incra and Kreg when I needed a miter gage. I got the Kreg and mine was square. It's been working for me. I like the long miter slot bar. I'm always worried about losing the brass pin. If it lets me down someday, I'll probably go Incra.
Absolutely wonderful review that clearly had a LOT of work going into it. I’m confident you really struggled with points in this but huge congratulations and props for sticking to your guns and approaching it as any customer would. Thanks for this video - even though I can’t afford any of them 😂
You are not alone with the problems with the Kreg. Mine was included with the purchase of a cabinet saw that could be as much as 18 years old. For the interim I've squared the Kreg with a good square that's ground on all surfaces from Taylor Tools and clamped it down firmly. The brass pin has a semi-permanent storage hole on the miter gauge's storage rack. Ultimately, the fix will likely be to bore the locating hole oversize, install a press fitted plug machined from aluminum and re-drill the hole accurately. Fortunately, I also have metal working tools beyond most woodworking shops. Cowboys don't wear necklaces. It's a BOLO! --But that's the charm of your show!
Man, you managed to call the issues and deliver your Do Not Buy advice like a gentleman. Thanks for this review. Based on this, the Incra is my way to go.
This was a fantastic detailed video. I absolutely love “non-sponsored” blunt honest reviews. It also reminded me to that prices don’t necessarily reflect quality/attention to detail. Your video kinda makes me wonder if it would be possible to order “replacement parts” of the gauges to create a custom Frankenstein miter gauge out the best pieces. Like the Harvey Micro-adjust stop block on a idk jessem fence and a longer miter bar type thing 🤔
This is the best comparative product review I have ever seen. Accurate cuts seem to be the bane of my existence, and this video is timely since I'll be making a purchase soon. Please don't feel badly about being honest and direct. There is a time and place for such feedback, and this is it. While we should all hold back on commentary at times (wow, what an ugly baby...), this is not one of those times. These companies have put themselves in the arena, and they have made claims that invite close analysis. To quote the Godfather, "It's just business", and these are all businesses that can surely endure some criticism, especially if they take your observations to heart and make improvements to their products. Everyone wins. They start making better products, your credibility is preserved, and we have a stronger, more competitive market. Very well done.
I would have never believed that I would sit through a near hour long you tube video. How wrong I was. This was great - and I don't even need a miter gauge :)
This video is a bit dated now, but I learned a lot about miter gauges, and it helped me avoid a bad purchase. I've been suffering with a joke of a gauge for too long, and am ready to drop some coin on a higher end one.
RIP to the customer service rep he talked to. So glad I watched this because I was going to order the Harvey sliding table. After that experience you described with customer service, I’m having second thoughts. Great video Mark.
I would think that Harvey has a major Quality Control failure. Consistency is king in quality and they seem to have lost it here. No excuses for a failure of the fundamentals.
![*[Gifted] Hongdui HD-KS22 Mitre Gauge Fence Review and Comparison To Incra Flip Fence](/img/n.gif)
Looking for a specific gauge? Use the chapters:
00:00 - Introduction
01:13 - Review Methodology
02:09 - Wood River
05:37 - Incra 1000
09:36 - Osborne EB-3
16:32 - Kreg Miter Gauge
23:44 - Incra 1000SE
26:58 - Rockler Miter Gauge
31:08 - Incra 1000HD
32:13 - Incra 3000SE
33:55 - JessEm Mite-R-Excel II
39:27 - Harvey Compass
50:24 - Closing Thoughts
51:02 - Sub-$200 Winner
52:01 - Over $200 Winner
52:52 - Do Not Buy Recommendations
54:09 - Closing
Thanks for the great, thoughtful review. I have been looking to upgrade my stock gauge and this video was a huge help.
I work in customer service and our company tries very hard to satisfy our guests. Your review was thoughtful and you tried your best to give Harvey every benefit of the doubt. They can use your information to improve their product. The responses you got from their customer service reveals either that the representative was not provided with solutions to offer you, or the company isn't committed to providing a premium product. We can tell that it pains you to give such a poor review but in the end it was Harveys responsibility to satisfy their customer.
Great list, was hoping to see the Powertec 71391
GREAT review! I picked up a used Incra V27 last year for $25 (score!). I added the 18” telescoping fence and flip stop. I ran into the same issue with adjusting the fence. Incra now offers ratchet lever knobs which work great for tool-less adjustments, I’ve added them to my gauge. It’s an optional accessory, but it should definitely be standard issue.
OOOOHHHHH Stumpy is reviewing your review on the harvey gauge. You are in trouble!!!!!!! FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT!!!!! No not really. That gap seems to be the issue.
These “non-sponsored “ reviews is exactly what the woodworking community needs. There are so many sponsored ( financial or just get something for free) reviews on social media that it’s hard to determine what is real and what is not. Thanks for this and A+ presentation.
I have to wonder if this has anything to do with Powermatic stepping away. Like, would Marc be giving us this review if Powermatic was still papa?
@@rockbandgamer Powermatic stepping away may be a great thing for the rest of us if Marc keeps on putting out videos like this one.
Powermatic couldn't care less about me doing a miter gauge review. :) I started planning this in the Fall, well before I even knew the PM sponsorship was ending.
I would say that the non-sponsored reviews are key. Understandably content creators do rely on sponsors to offer the content and quality of content they offer. This was a hefty investment on Marcs part and although he has since sold the gauges, having an unbiased opinion offered on each has helped me to purchase a gauge that is appropriate. I won't name any companies specifically but for me I went through a table saw search process earlier this year. Based on reviews and woodworkers involved, I almost bit the bullet and purchased. I am sure happy that I did not as it has since come out through numerous mediums that said company produces junk and most would not have the saw in their shop if it weren't for sponsorship. Because of this I turned cheek. I am thankful that Marc did this and hope that his new ability to bring in outside tool companies will allow more honest and open reviews of products. The community truly needs it and like Marc says, he never wants to bash a company, but instead highlight where they are strong and where they might not be so strong.
@@rockbandgamer Wow.
Marc, I tip my hat to you. I can't really imagine being in the position you are in this community. With how influential you've been you've put yourself in a tough spot for things like this. I think a lot of folks would head in a different direction and try to make the companies happy instead of providing the consumer with an accurate take. I'm just a random guy on the internet but thanks for being honest and putting your integrity first. Great video!
I own the Harvey Compass and have been underwhelmed, so I thank you for saying what needed to be said- and you should not apologize or feel bad for your words! This alone helped me confirm "it's not just me [or a product abnormality ]." The price point alone should demand better response to existing and not just future customers.
Marc, by this time you have obviously seen Stumpy's review of your review. While he didn't specify say your name, his rebuttal was definitely centered on his relationship with Harvey and his experiences. Now I really like both of you, your videos and your work. I didn't see any bias in anything you said and I think your sincerity for feeling bad for a bad review was honest. But if you're going to pay north of $300, you should get something that cooks your dinner as well as performs flawlessly. I can tell you, this review saved me over $100. Thank you and keep up the good work. God bless and be safe
Stumpy's major sponsor sent him a 100% perfect hand-picked sample for free. Oddly, there was no fault with it.
His video and responses to comments have lost him many subscribers, including me.
James is a bitch ass. Has been, always will be. He’s just a shill. Disregard him.
It just saved me from buying it. I'm not much of a woodworker, but need something good for the saw at work, and have the funding to get something that is accurate and lasts a long time. I've always been a buy-once-cry-once kinda guy, and it has always paid off for me. I hadn't even considered some of the obvious that was stated in this video. It's a shame, because it looks very nice.
Stumpy's problem is denial. It drips on him.
I’m a hand tool only woodworker and I’m still watching this all the way through, a testament to how much I enjoy Marc’s antics
As an amateur on a budget, I've always been intimidated by the prices of aftermarket miter gauges. This was a huge help in getting me to understand what I'm getting at these price points.
exactly and to see if your inexpensive one is just as accurate.
100%. I learned a lot about the subject myself. I'm a metal fabrication guy, so a lot of this is somewhat foreign to me.
promptly clearing my morning schedule. Update: Someone needs to check on Harvey (insert Michael Scott: "Theres been a murda" gif) But seriously amazing work on this one. That was quite the undertaking and its much appreciated.
Also Michael Scott: "Boom, roasted!"
Thank you for the thorough and honest review. As an incra user, I wanted to offer one tip I recently discovered - they sell what they call a “ratchet lever knob set” that allows one to convert several of the adjustments to tool-less knobs instead of having to find that always-elusive screwdriver.
🙏
Great review, in todays world you are exactly what is needed- there is enough false advertising and product reviews out there, the Star rating system is worthless for the most part. Thank you for the honest effort to show how reviews should be done.
I cannot begin to tell you how much I appreciate the videos like this that you do. The "buy this not that" videos also are wildly invaluable. For woodworkers like me who want to buy quality products and tools, but still live within a budget well, I can't thank you enough.
I've been watching your videos for years and you never disappoint. Keep up the great work, Mark.
I think you went incredibly easy on Harvy. For that price point, everything should be absolutely perfect. The stuff you pointed out just seem obvious from a manufacturing standpoint. Hopefully Harvy watches this video and immediately begin to redesign everything you talked about. Really all they need to do is tighten up some tolerances, and tweak a few details. Harvy, you can do better, you have the bones of something awesome if you just pay attention to details.
Watch the rebuttal video by Stumpy Nubs. You are correct....at that price point one can expect perfection, but even high-end products have a miss during quality inspection. Remember, this video is based on the evaluation of a sample of one......statistically a meaningless survey. That sample should be returned to Harvey for recalibration (at no charge of course) and I'm sure that it would perform as well as the thousands (yes, I said thousands) of pieces of this design that have been sold.
@@superczech Marc did ask his facebook supporters and a few echoed his problems. But the biggest issue was how dismissive Harvy was. At that price point you should expect a company to send you a new one with a self addressed label to return the old one. I know lesser companies that take better care of their customers.
As Marc said, Harvy isn't competing with stock miter gauges. Incra trashes Harvy in usability and price.
@@ouisi7 Pretty much this -- the slop I can see can account for a manufacturing or even assembly defect, the angled fence is subjective and I think the length is neglible. As far as engineering and use is concerned, the stop and the gauge gap marking leave a lot to be desired at this price point and, to me, seem fairly obvious at any price point...but above all, the poor customer support is what is most disappointing. We're trusting Marc at his word, but I have little reason to doubt him.
@@superczech Harvey should have offered to fix it, the fact that they didn’t says that is just how the product is. These are mostly design problems not manufacturing problems anyway.
@@superczech Nubs is sponsored by Harvery
Thank you for this review. While I'm nowhere near your skill level of woodworking, I do consider myself a woodworker and like an idiot, I listened to other "Harvey sponsored" videos and got sucked into the shear visual beauty of the MG-36. I now own it and get similar results as you described, but before seeing this video, I simply thought it has to be something I'm doing wrong. Clearly there are others that getting having lousy results(for this price point) as well. Now, I'm not "happy" to hear of others getting negative results, I'm just happy to hear I'm not alone. So thank you again! I love seeing what you guys are up to on this channel. Keep up the good work!
As someone who makes content, I can't even imagine how much work this was...but DANG this was INCREDIBLE to watch! Thanks Marc!
Regarding the Kreg, my Dad, an old school engineer, taught me "If you can't make it right, make it adjustable".
The fact that I watched this movie is a testament to how well done it is.
Kind of shocked that there doesn't exist a perfect miter gauge, but the Incra sounds like a great option. I hope some of the manufacturers will watch this and take your suggestions under consideration.
Yea I really don't get it. Just from this review we could assemble a "perfect" one. Take the micro adjust from the Harvey, make the bar longer, use tool-less adjustments, etc. etc. I wonder if there are patent issues preventing these companies from doing their own version of this review and then combining all of the best bits into the "perfect" miter gauge?
@@barryomahony4983 I have not one but three crosscut sleds. One’s for dados, another is a bit large for everyday use, and the third is smaller, and more typically what I need. For 90º cuts. But I do have occasion to do miters, and have a project coming up wherein reproducible “odd” angles are a must. Thus, for me, at any rate, this review is gold.
@@barryomahony4983 every cut i do seems to never be 90. used to blame squirrel hair so i got cats. well you can guess that problem
@@daviddoria1 It is definitely possible there are patent issues. Companies love to abuse patents to prevent competition.
@@barryomahony4983 the squirrels crap on everything, except the table saw.my biggest fear is the badger might move into the barn. he is kind of scary
Do not be sorry please. You made an awesome job and a very articulated review, AND you were perfectly temperate with the faulty products.
This is the first time I have felt a need to comment on one of your videos, but I have to say you did an excellent job with this review. You focused on the issues that are actually important to woodworkers, regardless of the degree of accuracy they like to work to. Also, don't feel bad for the manufacturers, your video is true to your viewers and that is where your allegiance belongs (and where you always put it). I'm only sorry I can't give you multiple thumbs up.
Ditto. Marc's integrity constantly shows through. He paid for all them himself, and gave us the good news and bad. When I heard him apologize to the manufacturers for the bad comments, I thought "He's real. He's not being a sycophant towards a sponsor, nor a jerk towards some company with which he has a grudge." Well done, Marc.
+1 about not feeling bad, and your integrity remaining clear throughout.
Your critiques were fair and reasonable, you acknowledge that they may be one-off units, and you gave the companies opportunities to make it right. Everything totally above board, and you've given feedback that is actionable - not unfounded complaining.
All I ask in tool reviews (or any video for that matter) is honesty and declarations of sponsorship or bias. You have consistently done that for as long as I have been watching your works, and it is truly appreciated. While I am not in the market for a miter gauge today, it is an item I would like to upgrade in the future, and you provided some excellent information to help that future decision making process.
I've been using the Incra 1000 SE for years and I absolutely love it.
Mark, you were more than gracious with your review of the Harvey gauge, and you're right- it's important to remember that people are behind the product and just because the product itself doesn't meet our standards, that doesn't mean we should hog-pile the company; and I certainly don't believe that anyone who genuinely listened to you would believe that that was your intent with your review. Let's hope Harvey takes your constructive criticism to heart and improve.
It's clear to me that this is the gage I will buy to replace my stock Ridgid miter gage.
A couple tips for use of the Incra miter gauges:
Put a wee drop of oil in the tapered seat of the nylon washer where the head wedges it apart. This makes it much easier to expand the washer as designed.
Second: lightly stone the sides of the slots on your cast iron table saw top. This will remove the microscopic machining burrs and diminish wear on the radiused bearing surfaces of the washers.
My Incra 1000 SD has been relegated right-of-blade slot usage now and the Jessem is my go-to gauge. I bought the Harvey months before Marc released this video and promptly returned it for reasons he mentions, as well as other significant ones he doesn't.
As hard as it may have been you did a superb job. Reviews need to be this in depth and above all honest. I absolutely applaud you here Marc!
Thanks for taking the time to do this review and thanks for the honest feedback. Regarding the Harvey gauge, you reached out to customer service before posting the video. You did your part. Your feedback was honest & fair. Thanks!
Hey Marc, long time lurker here.
I just wanted to commend and thank you for your honesty and integrity.
I don’t own a table saw and have never done any woodworking. I watch because I enjoy the content and would some day like to start.
It’s uncomfortable to provide criticism, especially on a public platform. I think you’ve gone about this in the best way possible; remaining objective in your findings, yet empathetic to the people behind the product.
The criticism not only provides valuable feedback to the manufacturers, but allows the average hobbyist(who aren’t going to spend $1500 on miter gauges) the information necessary to make an informed purchase decision.
It’s a double edged sword, but I appreciate your willingness to fall on that blade. We need more people like you in all facets of life.
Thanks for putting this together. I’m looking forward to future content in the same vein.
Marc, you remain a class act and ever-reliable source of woodworking insights. Thanks for your wit as well as your wisdom.
Possibly the best review on any topic that you've done. No need to apologize to anyone. I'm sure it is humbling for manufacturers but well qualified feedback is what will make them better. Keep up the excellent work Marc.
Could not agree any more than I do with Steve's comment.
Marc, I really wanted to compliment you on your professionalism in this video. Of course your breakdown of the features and fine points shows a keen eye. But I’m also impressed with the level of humility and disclaimers in the video. I can only imagine that everything you’ve ever said has been picked apart and second guessed so many times that you can predict the snipes and jibes you’re going to get. I also appreciate the sensitivity to the companies and employees you showed, despite the unsparing evaluation of their product. Nice human touch. The editing on this video is also fantastic. The different visual angles perfectly demonstrate each point as you narrate it, and keep a pace that’s easy to follow but still snappy. Really great work here. You operate at a high level.
I bought the JessEm Mite-R-Excel II a year ago. When I put it together and tested for square it looked square. Just to be sure I did the 5-cut method with a 12-inch plywood square. It was off by 0.0006" over 11.25 inches. That's more than good enough, so I left it alone. It is a pleasure to use.
I have two miter gauges, an Incra Miter 5000 cross-cut sled, and a small cross-cut sled that I built. I test them from time to time to make sure they are still in tolerance. Unfortunately the JessEm came way out of square in a move. I was able to readjust it, but it was very fiddley. Ironically, My most accurate miter gauge Is an Incra V27 that I bought over 12 years ago; it doesn't come with a fence. It can be bought directly from Incra for $75. I used a 3/4" piece of Appleply as a fence; when tested a few months ago it had an error rate of 0.00001" per inch (the JessEm is 0.00002" per inch). Katz-Moses says that any deviation from 90º of 0.03º or less is too small to see light through a Starrett square. That corresponds to an error rate of 0.00005" per inch.
I had a 10" Dewalt compound miter saw for around 12 years (light duty). It still works great ua-cam.com/users/postUgkxPeGkHOMe05FySypTOvYumxMn-xi39oRe but I wanted something bigger. My only complaint about the 10" was the location of the motor, and this version fixes that issue. The XPS system works well. My only request for future versions is a dust collection port (or adapter) that fits large shop vac hoses (or standard PVC pipe fittings) a little better. But that's not a complaint, just a request.
As an engineer, I see this review as an incredible opportunity for improvement. Your experience highlights what is important, what is not and demonstrates that the solutions exist, though not on any single miter gauge (though a couple come close). Keep up the good work.
Good review Marc, you don’t owe those companies anything and I appreciate your honesty. It’s really a breath of fresh air. I wish there were more reviews like this one.
Hands down one of the most honest, thorough, and respectful reviews I have ever watched. Also reassuring since I ended up getting the incra1000se last year after lots of research and second guessing. Thank you for always keeping it real!
Yeah... we're all feeling badly for the poor fellas who just bought or received the Harvey for $319 (or $359) for Christmas. Reviews like this are invaluable and sometimes painful.
You just did something no reviewer on UA-cam has the balls to do. You said DO NOT BUY SOMETHING. In guns, cars parts, wood or metal working, NO UA-camR SHILL has the balls to do that. You just bought yourself some real credibility in my book. Very well done.
Thanks for doing this Marc! I've been looking at miter gauges for a year and have hesitated because I don't want to spend 200$ on a bad gauge. Very helpful review.
Just found your channel and I am impressed and thankful for these reviews. However I find myself extremely frustrated with the things you reveal. I’ve always tried to buy on the cheap, and in recent days I told myself STOP buying junk. You can’t polish a turd. So now I save and save to buy the nicest I can afford. These high end companies have an ethical obligation not to deceive the average Joe into spending their hard earned and saved $ only to find they have duped by high prices and fancy talk. Again I absolutely applaud and appreciate what your are doing.
for what its worth, I sat through this entire thing, almost an hour. Why is this a big deal for me? ADHD and I'm not medicated yet. Thanks for making it entertaining, educational, and as short as possible (I really mean that!). What a great video, and I am more confident in my purchase of the incra 1000se.
This was an amazing and in-depth video. As somebody who is in the market for a mitre gauge right now you really helped change my mind. I did have my eye on the Kreg - thank goodness you saved me there. Also, don't sweat the negative reviews. Share facts (you did), and state when you have preferences/opinions (you're allowed to have these when you spend your own money on things). We all appreciate the candid, open, and honest review. My wife (in the background as I am watching this video) - "Oh my god, stop waffling. Just say you don't like it and move on!" - Just be authentic and be willing to backup your claims (your measurements, photographic evidence, follow-up with the companies etc.) should be more than enough to back you up if these companies complain. At the end of the day you're highlighting ways in which they can make a better product. Be bold and be brave, these are the facts we need!
Agree, since when did it become a crime to have an honest opinion. As long as you're being fair, no need to be nancyboys about it, or pre-apologize that your going to possibly offend someone and maybe they should go to a safe space.
I have owned the Incra 1000SE for several years and agree with the comments on the additional tool needed as well as the difficult to use knobs on the stop. I want to thank Marc for showing me the mico adjust though, never knew it was there!!
I dropped the stop for my 1000SE and the knobs broke. I went out and got lag bolts the same size, lag bolts are even more uncomfortable to turn :(
Thanks for your entertaining and informative videos. Your reviews are like Consumer Reports for woodworkers; detail rich and evidence based. You hit the nail square when you briefly mentioned the price of a high-end miter gauge approaching the price of a miter saw. However, like many of your subscribers I imagine, I have a two car garage for a shop and can't leave my miter saw set up all the time. Having an accurate and repeatable miter gauge for the table saw, that I can quickly grab, is a true timesaver. I've been using a Jess Em Mite-R-Excel II for about a year and it has proven itself to be as you describe, a well-made tool that makes operations requiring a miter gauge quick and easy. It may be on the higher end pricewise, but for me it's been money well spent.
2022 where you have to apologize for your honest review, just in case someone gets offended. You went above and beyond with your constructive criticisms. Thanks for the great content!
Was there ever a time when you could criticise a sponsor with impunity?
@@ian1352 sponsor? He said he bought them with his own money....
@@dieselrugg He did, but he also said that Rocker was a sponsor of his podcast. So he didn't want to bash them too badly.
Excellent review! I’ve done framing and some minor trim work since I was literally 10, but when it comes to the kind of work you true woodworkers do I am a true noob. I just completely tore down my dads Craftsman table saw (that was under 14’ of water in Katrina) and completely rebuilt it. I need a miter gauge and was in the process of buying one on your list when I looked up reviews on UA-cam and saw this great video. Saved me from wasting $200! Thanks!
And just to be clear, me spending $200 on a miter gauge for someone like me to use is like handing a 7 year old a $600 baseball bat.
Thank you so much for a very thorough review. You hit the nail on the head with almost every point. I think it's important to understand that the real winner here is each of the companies themselves. You literally just handed them a blueprint of what they need to do to produce a top notch product.
I have had the Kreg for years. When ever I want to torture myself I would try to get it squared up. I thought it was something I was going wrong. Can never get it to be true. Now I know it’s a bad design, and to quit wasting my time with it.
Thanks for the work that went into this video.
Woah. They had to know who you were. I can't believe they didn't open the replacement before they sent it to you.
This is a wholly brilliant video/review. Thanks!
I've watched A LOT of your videos, but neve felt the need to comment. But i need to thank you for your honesty. Most reviews like this have some kind of bias, and i saw none of that here. Also, i can't believe that video was almost an hour long, it felt like maybe 20 minutes 😶
You are as entertaining as you are knowledgeable. Keep doing what you're doing, its greatly appreciated 👏
A really fantastic review. I love we will ALWAYS know when you have a dog in the race and still get your honest opinion on that dog. If that dog can't run, it simply can't run. Great job at serving all of us, your customer.
Here’s what I’d like to say man. I watch a ton of reviews. That was simply the best, in-depth and honest review I think I’ve ever seen. Fantastic job! I appreciate you not wanting to offend those company’s but…crap is crap and junk is junk. This should, if they’re for real, get them off their butts and fix it.
I rarely watch a video this long all the way through. I'm glad I did with this one. I have both the Woodcraft version and the Incra V-27 with a telescoping fence. They both work flawlessly for me. I'm glad I didn't spend big money on the Harvey version. No need for apologizing for not liking the ones that fell short. Thanks for a great comparison Marc.
I watched the whole video and it seemed like it was only 20 minutes. That hour went fast. Thanks for knowledge and great work.
Thanks for the review. I just canceled my Harvey Compass order which is backordered until late February. I did watch the Stumpy Nubs video as well, but I think I will wait until they fix some of these issues. It is clear that they still have some work to do despite what Stumpy Nubs says. Keep up the honest reviews.
Fabulous reviews and I’m now the proud owner of a 1000SE! So glad I found your channel! I’ll be watching very regularly!!!!
A superb review of each member of a sizable range of options, including most if not all of the more notable names/brands out there. Also very timely for me-I happen to be researching which miter gauge might come to live with me in the near future.
I was surprised at the problems with both the Kreg and the Harvey devices. That the Kreg cannot be calibrated (at least without major surgery) is…an automatic failing grade, as far as I’m concerned. So it has gone from “serious consideration” to exile. The Harvey gauge was even more bothersome-not just in the number and types of problems, as well as, frankly, more limited precision, but rather poor customer service. And nothing, but nothing, turns me off more quickly than poor customer service. So it, too, is banished into the Dark Realm.
Why do I share this so specifically? Because this review did the sorts of things I most value in a review, and it made my decision-making easier.
So, my review grade for this review? Full-on A. I’d have given an A+ except for the cowboy schtick. ;-) Just kidding. Mostly.
I wouldn't worry about the employees of a company that makes a poor quality or ineffective tool, worry about the people who spend their hard earned money on a defective tool. As a business if you don't want bad press don't make a sh*tty product! It's their job to to take care of their employees, not yours or ours!! Not too mention in the case of Harvey their employees are mostly in China. Thank you for taking the time to make such an in depth review! I am glad that you were very thoughtful and spoke with the voice of experience!
Thanks for this review! I came here after seeing "Stumpy's" response. It is clear that there is something seriously wrong with the unit that you reviewed, and their lack of support is blaring. The take away for me is that Harvey indeed makes an amazing miter gauge provided that you don't get one of the ones that has the gap. That is both encouraging and frustrating. I would like to hear Harvey respond to this whole mess. As a professional woodworker, I want to own the best tool for the job, but I also need to know that I have the necessary support should something go wrong. I am in the market for a new miter gauge right now, and I am leaning toward the Jessum because of this whole kerfuffle. If the Jessum had the micro adjust it would already be in my shop. Also let me acknowledge how challenging it must have been for you to put out this video! Thanks again!
This is an excellent video and it's clearly visible that you don't get pleasure from talking about the negative experiences. I've had that Kreg miter gauge for about four years. Mine is off exactly like yours. I have never been able to use the positive stops. I rely on tightening the handle to keep it in aligned. I'm shopping for a new miter gauge now and this video is very helpful. Thanks for all you do.
Thank you so much for the honest reviews. So many products get sold off of "hype", its nice to see the actual functionality
Whew! I bought my miter gauge before watching this very informative video. Thankfully, it was the 1000SE.
Your no-nonsense comparison is greatly appreciated. Thanks.
Harvey dropped the ball in Qaulity Control and customer service. The tone of Customer Service usually comes from the top. I will not recommend, or buy Harvey products until they show a pattern of treating us better. Love that honest word of mouth - I'm guessing they don't ..smarten up Harvey
*Calibrating the Kreg:* They say it doesn't need calibration, but you found otherwise. However the bit of video @17:36 shows two black screws that might afford some adjustment... that is if they are screws and not some semi-hollow rivets. Assuming screws, adjust the miter gauge to be perfect using the large knob, ignoring what the scale says. Then loosen the two black screws and slide the little vernier scale back and forth so the two zeros line up. Might have to enlarge the screw holes to give more adjustment.
This is a timely video. Just bought a table saw whose weakest feature is the crap miter gauge, so knew I'd need to buy a good one. Thanks for your hard work.
Great video. I love the in-depth review of each and that you called out the issues. If nobody calls out these companies and hold them to a higher standard then they won't change. Being how well respected you are in the community hopefully all of these manufacturers will make revisions. I personally own the Rocker miter gauge, i never noticed the slop but i'm definitely going to look for it now.
You are a person that I can say is caring, honest, and put a lot of passion into what you do. Thank you for your honesty. This video provided a lot of useful information.
I appreciate that!
Marc, thanks so much for this. Well done and a great help. I would not feel too bad about criticizing faults in any of the products, especially the Harvey. At the price they are asking, they need to come up with a superior product. The faults you pointed out just can't be excused. They need to take a serious look at their product and LISTEN to the points you made.
Wow. I just watched a 56 minute video about miter gauges - and liked it! This type of review is perfect for guys like me for whom price is a major obstacle. My skill level probably only slightly higher than Beavis and Butthead would exhibit so I'd always have my doubts - is it the tool that's off or is it me? I'd hate to spend over $200 only to find out after a couple months worth of frustration that nope - its the tool. "A good craftsman never blames his tools" but sometimes it really is the tool.
As always, a great review. I have both the JessEm and Incra. I bought the JessEm years ago and I love it. The Incra 1000SE is nice, but not as nice as the JessEm, I now use the Incra exclusively on my router table. Thanks again
Thank you for your very detailed and honest review! This is what the world needs to keep people like me from throwing away hard-earned money on hyped-up products!
Great review! Another nice thing about being in the Incra system is that both the fence and micro-adjustable stop-block are available separately and therefore upgradeable. I've got the 1000HD, which comes with the 18-31" fence, but purchased the 27-49" fence (standard on the 3000SE) for a very reasonable price ($75 shipped). I put it on when I need it, and use the original fence when I don't since the shorter fence is less of a snag hazard.
GREAT tip!! I was leaning towards the Incra and did not know the parts were interchangeable. I my do the same thing and start out with the smaller fence first.
I bought the Kreg 3 or 4 years ago, and never loved it. It was never square and couldn’t get it shimmed square. I just got the Incra 1000SE and love it. Thanks for your honest review. Wish you had done this three years ago.
Thank you for this, Marc. I've been looking forward to the shootout. I'd like to add my experiences with a couple of gauges here.
First, when I started my business almost four years ago, the first table saw accessory I bought was the Kreg miter gauge....and it was terrible. I had the same problems you had as well as the view window on the scale could not move far enough to set the gauge. There's definitely an issue in manufacturing and/or quality control.
Secondly, I decided to cash in on the Harvey sale and buy their miter gauge last year. I didn't have the same problems you did, but I have certainly seen some others have those issues since. It's a shame to see such drastic variances with a product that pricey. Of course I found things I like and dislike about the product as well over the course of the past year using it, but it's one of those things that I probably should have gone another direction than "OH MY GOD LOOK HOW AWESOME IT LOOKS! IT'S LIKE A DAEDRIC MITER GAUGE!!"
Anyway...thanks for doing this. I don't know how many woodworkers would do this kind of testing. It's much appreciated! And maybe use the money get back from the gauges on a date night haha!
I bought the first incra you showed her. At first I thought I may had made a mistake and should had bought the second one but I think I can rig a better stop on this. The one thing that impressed me the most is how they have precise positive stops. There is no guess work or relying on bad eyes. Thanks for the video, I know it cost you a lot to buy all of these just to educate us. I appreciate your help.
WOW. As always excellent and informative. I've learned soo much watching you and continue to learn from you. I've had the Kreg Miter Gauge for several year now and have never been fully satisfied with it. I've been able to "adjust" the square by pushing it with my left hand and tightening the handle with my right. Not an ideal method. I've been down in the rabbit hole of just accepting that "this is how miter gauges are" just deal with it!. After watching this video I'll be replacing the Kreg with the Incra 1000SE. Marc, thank you for providing me with yet another AH HA moment.
Thank you for your honesty, you’ve certainly earned our respect. If the manufacturers of tools want us to purchase their products, they’d better start listening.
I know it's been a while but man I love this video. I love the honest review the appreciation that you have for the material and the people who put the work in great job!
Mark - you present the data and we can make up our own minds. That’s all we can ask as content consumers. You’ve done that. Kudos and thank you.
PS. My miter gauge goes to 11! Problem solved.
I’m so glad I found this review. I’ve been pulling my hair out over analyzing the Harvey vs. JessEm miter gauges. I was leaning towards Harvey until yesterday, when I had the opportunity to actually hold the JessEm and feel it’s quality first hand. Then, finding this review and hearing what you had to say about the Harvey has pretty much sealed the deal for my JessEm purchase. Thanks for being honest, and providing a no basis opinion.
After seeing several videos defending the Harvey gauge that were sparked by this video . I had to come back for a second comment .to thank you for posting your honest unbiased results even though I sure you knew there would be those who disagreed . And you presented it in such a respectful manner hat those who did post a video response were respectful in return . There might be a bigger lesson here that goes beyond miter gauges ,,,, in short very well done and thank you !
Excellent piece of work. That is how you conduct a professional objective review of a set of products. I understand your hesitance to offer harsh critique, but in this case it was warranted and required. Well done.
Thanks for the honest review. You identified two issues with these mitre gauges: I) design issues, and ii) quality control issues. A design issue would be that there is no provision to adjust the gauge relative to the fence, or the components are 'flimsy'. The quality control issue is that it is not square. Some of these gauges had both. Thanks again
This was a fantastic non biased in depth review. Definitely need more like this. Too bad it’s not practical to do big machines. I had the Harvey and ditched it after 11 months of trying to love it. I just couldn’t get past all the minor issues. There are just too many and although minor, they have a huge impact on the performance and accuracy. It’s a beautiful tool and the packaging is impressive. However, the packaging did not transfer to the actual tool. They should’ve put less thought into the packaging and more into the tool. For the cost of it, you expect a lot better product. It’s more of a $75 dollar tool. My cheap Grizzly miter gauge is more accurate and precise than the Harvey. I thought maybe I just got a bad one but judging by the review, it appears they just make a terrible miter gauge. I ended going with the JessEm and I’d say Marks observations with it are again accurate. I would love to see a micro-adjust but i hand it on my Harvey and i used it once. Maybe it’s because I wasn’t used to it or maybe I didn’t like it because it wasn’t designed well but I was more concerned about accuracy. The JessEm comes in cheaper than the Harvey and you can definitely tell straight out of the box that it was very very well engineered. I have no experience with Incra but as mark subtly pointed out, it’s quite dated. It also looks dated too. I know, looks aren’t the important thing but when you spend that kind of money, aesthetics help you justify the cost. I highly recommend the JessEm and I have absolutely no buyers remorse or regret of any kind. Well done Mark!
I have a Harvey experience that I think is worth sharing. I recently bought one of their table saws for a lot of reasons, but the miter gauge is what pushed me towards them. Everything was delivered except the miter gauge and that’s when I saw this video. I emailed Harvey to find out what was going on and based on this video I asked if I could have a refund for the value of the miter gauge in place of receiving the device, I thought that was fair considering I was looking at a 2+ month back order.
I received the same response if basically blowing me off. I followed it up with a nice response asking to escalate the matter and get a supervisor involved. A day or two later Mikey from Harvey called me to ask what they could do to make things right. We talked back and forth, even referencing this video and ultimately they offered a store credit in place of the miter gauge.
They handled the situation very well and I am happy and impressed with their customer service, it just took a little pushing to get to the right people.
They did say they were aware of the issues this video brought up and I was assured they are making steps to address many of the issues brought up here.
Another great review! I love my Incra 1000HD and have used it for several years now. I just added the Incra cross cut sled, even though I've made several good sleds, this allows about 18" crosscuts as the sled can sit in miter slot at end of table! The 1000HD fits right in the slot in the sled and is easily removed. Awesome sled and miter combo!
I purchased the Harvey Ambassador 14” bandsaw three months ago based on Stumpy Nubs’ review (plus other’s) and agree with your assessment of their customer service, it’s handled by the receptionist as far as I could tell. The saw is great after about 10 hours of set-up and tuning on my part, admittedly I couldn’t spend the time to do everything in one shot so it took 4 days to complete. This was expected as I have made a career setting up machinery and know it will never arrive correctly adjusted. I wired in a 15’ #12 SO cable to replace the 3 foot cord supplied and discovered the factory had improperly wired the motor starter. They only used 2 legs of the 3 phase starter for a single phase motor which can cause premature death of the starter and potentially not allow the starter to open in a low voltage situation. I called Harvey and let the receptionist know about the issue and was told I would get a call from tech support; never heard back. But I do like the saw and would buy from them again, just not their miter gage.
Thanks for the great content Marc. Keep these shootouts coming...if you can, woodworkers need some true reviews. Project Farm style
Just found this review of mitre gauges and don’t remember ever seeing a more comprehensive and complete review of ALL the products. It was excellent!
But only American ones
I always appreciate your honesty when comes these reviews! Hopefully all these companies take reviews like this seriously and make changes where necessary to produce, manufacture, and control quality. Honesty its "free-ish" R&D for them
Makes you wonder why QC reviews aren't done in house by Harvey and Kreg. Perhaps the laurels of some companies have become too comfy.?.?
I am so glad I watched your video. I just happened to buy the Kreg Miter Gauge but I did not set it up. I measured the miter gauge and it was not square just like the one you presented. This has saved me a lot of grief. I am sending it back to Amazon and getting JessEm.
Thanks,
jd
I appreciate your measured response to Harvey's customer "service." Seems to me it doesn't bode well for us mortal makers trying to get service from them. Thanks for your informative reviews.
Thanks for all your effort in these reviews. Greatly appreciated.
As a side note, I'd add that I'm really no fan of miter bars that rely on nylon screws for tightening in the slot. It might be fine if the screws never exit the slot, but for jigs/fixtures that get pulled far back, repeated exit/entry from/into the slot just grinds them down over time and you end up with inevitable slop. This was my experience with the Kreg aluminum miter bar (which I purchased separately for a sled) so even if you hadn't come upon other shortcomings of the Kreg, I would have eliminated it from my list.
Perhaps ironically, your reviews have convinced me just to stick to crosscut sled for 90 deg cuts, my 45 deg sled for mitered corners, and my miter saw for other angles. So your effort has helped me make a non-purchasing decision. Just as valuable.
Thanks for the effort you put into this. I recall considering both the Incra and Kreg when I needed a miter gage. I got the Kreg and mine was square. It's been working for me. I like the long miter slot bar. I'm always worried about losing the brass pin.
If it lets me down someday, I'll probably go Incra.
Thank you for spending time showing the different miter gauges. I am in agreement that the Jessum Miter Gauge seems to be the best. Thanks again.
Absolutely wonderful review that clearly had a LOT of work going into it.
I’m confident you really struggled with points in this but huge congratulations and props for sticking to your guns and approaching it as any customer would.
Thanks for this video - even though I can’t afford any of them 😂
You are not alone with the problems with the Kreg. Mine was included with the purchase of a cabinet saw that could be as much as 18 years old. For the interim I've squared the Kreg with a good square that's ground on all surfaces from Taylor Tools and clamped it down firmly. The brass pin has a semi-permanent storage hole on the miter gauge's storage rack. Ultimately, the fix will likely be to bore the locating hole oversize, install a press fitted plug machined from aluminum and re-drill the hole accurately. Fortunately, I also have metal working tools beyond most woodworking shops.
Cowboys don't wear necklaces. It's a BOLO! --But that's the charm of your show!
top notch video. impartial, thorough, and informative. subscribed.
Man, you managed to call the issues and deliver your Do Not Buy advice like a gentleman.
Thanks for this review. Based on this, the Incra is my way to go.
This was a fantastic detailed video. I absolutely love “non-sponsored” blunt honest reviews. It also reminded me to that prices don’t necessarily reflect quality/attention to detail.
Your video kinda makes me wonder if it would be possible to order “replacement parts” of the gauges to create a custom Frankenstein miter gauge out the best pieces. Like the Harvey Micro-adjust stop block on a idk jessem fence and a longer miter bar type thing 🤔
This is the best comparative product review I have ever seen. Accurate cuts seem to be the bane of my existence, and this video is timely since I'll be making a purchase soon. Please don't feel badly about being honest and direct. There is a time and place for such feedback, and this is it. While we should all hold back on commentary at times (wow, what an ugly baby...), this is not one of those times. These companies have put themselves in the arena, and they have made claims that invite close analysis. To quote the Godfather, "It's just business", and these are all businesses that can surely endure some criticism, especially if they take your observations to heart and make improvements to their products. Everyone wins. They start making better products, your credibility is preserved, and we have a stronger, more competitive market. Very well done.
I would have never believed that I would sit through a near hour long you tube video. How wrong I was. This was great - and I don't even need a miter gauge :)
haha I tried to make it palatable.
This video is a bit dated now, but I learned a lot about miter gauges, and it helped me avoid a bad purchase. I've been suffering with a joke of a gauge for too long, and am ready to drop some coin on a higher end one.
Lmao at special nuts, that face was hilarious
RIP to the customer service rep he talked to. So glad I watched this because I was going to order the Harvey sliding table. After that experience you described with customer service, I’m having second thoughts. Great video Mark.
I would think that Harvey has a major Quality Control failure. Consistency is king in quality and they seem to have lost it here. No excuses for a failure of the fundamentals.