Waratah Bset B1 has also had a first test run on eastern Suburb As well like A3 back in 2018 During on trackwork on weekend T4 eastern suburb, illawara line were diverted to the north shore to north sydney or sometime city circle but it most likely going to north sydney
the whole point of the video is to expand on this idea - anyone with common sense knows the power supply issues exist. you dont need to state the obvious :)
The fun thing is that the T sets have the highest peakage amperage load on the overhead, but it lasts only for a very short period, whereas the power demand of the rest of the current sets in service (except for the K's) have a much more consistent amperage draw which is what causes a lot of the problems...
Thanks for the explanation. I live in Rockdale and always wondered why we don’t get Waratah. It’s okay, showing a bit of age. I do miss the digital information though.
these sets were normally rostered to only run on the T1/T2/T5/T3/T7/T8 and T9, which had only restricted them from T4, as the tangaras had been the only sets that's been running in that sector for a very long time. it is as the waratahs were not designated to run the T4 routes.
This was a good video. Although I would like to see a Waratah on the T4 just once, I would hate for it to be regularly. Living on the T4 I love being able to always have a Tangara, and I along with some of my other friends on the T4 would not want any other rolling stock on the T4. I find the Tangaras to be a lot more comfortable than the Waratahs and wouldn't exactly call the Waratahs an upgrade... Although I have seen this topic been overused by everyone I have found your video on this topic one of the best on the topic. It is well put together, a lot more informative than most and it is nice to see a video on this topic that doesn't use "Text To Speech".
thanks mate! ye as much as seeing Waratahs on the T4 is rare, it will be redundant if it happens too many times - not too many people came on the industrial action timetabled day because there had already been an event the week before where Waratahs came - same with the 2 days of Millennium runs! Thank you so much for the support, means a lot!
I'm not aware of Millenniums ever running on the T4 as a regular thing. Also, with the closure of the Bankstown line to regular trains, it opens up the possibility for trains to run via the city circle instead of the ESR. God knows the T4 needs some more paths in peak to ease overcrowding. It might necessitate skipping Wolli Creek though.
They're alright, starting to age and give a lot of technical problems though which causes disruptions on the T4 line pretty often - not to say they're a bad train, but considering other lines are moving on with newer fleets, we should do the same :)
@@TransitSydney Yeah but I've been travelling on Tangaras including G sets for years and recently sat down on one and heard this new crunchy padding sound, and it seems like most of them have that now
I suspect if they just order a single-deck fleet for the T4 to replace the Tangaras they won't need to upgrade the power supply and they could run more trains with the digital signalling upgrades that have already been approved for the ESR tunnel. I know they won't do it but they could also order trains capable of running on both AC and DC and then convert the entire ESR and Illawarra & South Coast line to AC as it is completely sectorised from other lines, I think we should have a plan in place to eventually convert the whole network to AC as the assets come up for renewal.
They definitely won't be switching to single deck at least on the Sydney trains fleets anytime soon! Not too sure why they've pretty much refused to upgrade the T4 line and add uniformity to the whole network
@@TransitSydney I think the double deck fetish is weird and perpetuated by people that dont really understand or want to acknowledge the limitations of an all-DD fleet, they really dont perform very well and cause a number of issues plus they cost more and need a bespoke design each time a new fleet design is ordered. I Imagine ST will be looking to do some form of power upgrade when they do the digital signalling later this decade possibly.
@@BigBlueMan118 well the public only supports interesting ideas opposed to the most practical ones, and I don't blame them. The metro is undoubtedly more uncomfortable than the train fleets, so you get less travel time at the expense of comfort.
@@TransitSydney I wasn't talking about Metro though i was talking about something more like Melbourne hcmt trains. And there is nothing comfortable about the DDs when they start to get full because everyone crowds the doors and vestibules or standing on our DDs is a shit experience. The public have no idea though mate you know that, the public want stupid shit like express trains stopping at Riverview in T8, or middle seats which they hardly use, or Semi-Express stopping patterns on the T2 T3 which save almost no time.
@@BigBlueMan118 I mean the trains in Sydney are definitely more comfortable than the metro particularly due to directional seating, unlike the metro's longitudinal seating. When the metro trains accelerate the longitudinal seating add a level of discomfort unlike the directional DD seating, where the force just makes your back rest on the seat. This is one of the reasons why I would prefer train over metro despite the longer journey times and lack of reliability - especially for longer journeys
Mariyung D sets are designed to operate using their own power. They are electric multiple units (EMUs), which means they have onboard traction equipment that allows them to generate their own power for movement. This capability enables them to run independently on electrified tracks without the need for a separate locomotive (similar to Waratahs) - the main difference is that the D sets consume LESS electricity than the Waratahs
@@TransitSydneyYes of course they're EMUs but they can't operate without power from catenary, just like all other Sydney EMUs. The exception will be the CAF Endeavour/Xplorer/XPT replacements which have pantographs and on-board diesel power generation.
Those 2 trains were Tangaras and S Sets? Also, Millennium's used to run on the T4 when they were first introduced, however they got quickly withdrawn after some issues with the trains themselves, only to be put on other lines ever since.
@@simonburns1055 trackwork leading into Sydenham xpt centre northern entrance so trains had to use the southern entrance - which requires turning back at Hurstville
It is correct. That Waratah was headed to the T8 line via the Sydenham route. Pretty much all info in this video is accurate for the time of editing (which is yesterday), as I've fact checked everything.
@@TransitSydneyoh yeah that makes sense thx for the info, but you said “not a single waratah ran on a single track from Wolli Creek to anywhere on the T4” must’ve misinterpreted it haha i guess you meant no waratah has ran a actual service not just headed to another line
@@Electro8k Wolli Creek platforms above ground are the T4 ones, the local tracks dont count as they dont use the station and instead bypass the whole section entirely :) I guess I could have been more specific to say upper platforms but I think its pretty obvious considering the topic we're discussing
So the Illawarra line wasn't the real problem, it's the Eastern Suburbs Line. But what would happen to the T4 once the new Tangara fleet replacements enter service? How will they handle the power supply issue or whatever when those new Tangara fleet replacements enter service on that line?
They will likely be able to run under their own power like the Mariyungs. The Illawarra past Hurstville can cause problems but generally the city section is only double tracks so it causes problem
The specifics aren't really confirmed at all so I'm not 100% sure how it would work, but I highly doubt they will upgrade power substations until it is absolutely necessary - also if they were upgrading power supply on the eastern suburbs line, then instead of a tangara replacement train they would be getting more Waratahs (similar to the B set order) Their main goal is an Australian built train
@@TransitSydney Upgrading the power supply is on the cards. It is a long term project that will require a considerable amount of engineering work and has been factored into the next gen trains. Afaik it was already progressing before the Tangara replacement announcement.
@@Perpetual-sk2ee power supply upgrades are not underway to my understanding - they're instead reducing the power draw of future trains, including the D sets! (which is why they're able to run on the T4 line in the first place) I believe the tangara replacement will also be designed to have a minimal power draw
@@TransitSydney Not 100% High draw upgrades. Standard upgrades to replace equipment. They internally still refer to it as upgrade power supplies. Since they are replacing old and seriously outdated equipment with modern high efficiency etc which allows for more operations per substation etc etc. Reduced power draw is the goal, but capacity increases are required regardless, system needs to have excess designed into it. Right now certain areas are lacking in that regard. Will look for the docs on it that made the rounds in 2019/2020 to media, they should still be around hopefully. Prior administration were pushing for all lines to be able to operate all current sets.
I prefer the Tangaras over the A, B and M sets. Pros, some of them have the higher seats and are more comfortable then the new trains, no cameras which means the guards won’t constantly remind you by making announcements. The lights aren’t too bright. Cons, Only downside are the announcements. Some guard barely speak into the microphone while some speak so loudly it starts to hurt your ears and brains. In all I love the Tangaras on the T4, which the guard is in the middle of the train instead of the back.
" no cameras which means the guards won’t constantly remind you by making announcements" what does this mean? no cameras means no security windows of the tangaras are horrific to look out of due to the layering and curvature on the top Guard announcements are inaudible at most times id rather have automated announcements and a pid screen to know where I am the point abt the guard being in the middle is completely valid :)
@@Perpetual-sk2ee certainly my best performance ever! Also crushed through 600 way earlier than expected haha Support makes me want to do more unique content like this :)
@@TransitSydney Quality work always attracts people so you've got that going for you and you have active engagement with your viewers which is also important to facilitate growth. Well deserved :)
@@Perpetual-sk2ee thank you! These types of videos are definitely harder to make and require a lot of time bts editing, time that I don’t currently have much of - the next few weeks will be trainspotting videos for the most part with new concepts and rare sights in each :) they obviously won’t skyrocket in views or anything but im not really aiming for that at this time anyways
Your Audio on the T4 Video needs a higher level & much clearer. Some words are muffled & hard to understand. When your speaking, there is too much background noise. Good luck. Thank you great videos.
alright mate thanks for the feedback :) I dont currently have a proper mic so I was trying to do the best alternative, the background noise issue can hopefully be resolved though
I wished that the NSW Government did not shelve the idea of transforming the T4 line from Bondi Junction to Cronulla into a Sydney Metro line as it would bring much needed investment and upgrades along the Bondi Juncton to Cronulla route; thus gentrifying the Eastern Suburbs.
@@mastersingleton closing that line would be so controversial it might sound great but a closure of one of the most important connections to eastern Sydney is not a good thing
@@TransitSydney Yes its controversial but closing and converting the Bankstown to Central section of the Bankstown Line is highly controversial as well; but its a welcomed improvement to the overall Sydney Public Transport network. Even so, closing and converting the Bondi Junction to Cronulla section of the Eastern Suburbs line to Metro for the long term will be great; as infrastructure investment within the Eastern Suburbs has been lagging behind the Northern and Western Suburbs in the past 10 to 15 years.
@@mastersingleton the Bankstown to Central section is not in the CBD and there are alternative ways to get there, unlike the eastern suburbs where bus connections are much more difficult
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Waratah Bset B1 has also had a first test run on eastern Suburb As well like A3 back in 2018
During on trackwork on weekend T4 eastern suburb, illawara line were diverted to the north shore to north sydney or sometime city circle but it most likely going to north sydney
TLDR: The waratahs don’t run on the T4 because of power supply. Too many waratahs will cause the overhead power to shutdown of pressure.
the whole point of the video is to expand on this idea - anyone with common sense knows the power supply issues exist. you dont need to state the obvious :)
@@TransitSydney sorry
@@AnnoyingAhhPyroUnit it’s all good mate
The fun thing is that the T sets have the highest peakage amperage load on the overhead, but it lasts only for a very short period, whereas the power demand of the rest of the current sets in service (except for the K's) have a much more consistent amperage draw which is what causes a lot of the problems...
@@rogue265 interesting haha
Thanks for the explanation. I live in Rockdale and always wondered why we don’t get Waratah. It’s okay, showing a bit of age. I do miss the digital information though.
@@k.vn.k were you at Rockdale during the platform 1 era?
these sets were normally rostered to only run on the T1/T2/T5/T3/T7/T8 and T9, which had only restricted them from T4, as the tangaras had been the only sets that's been running in that sector for a very long time. it is as the waratahs were not designated to run the T4 routes.
Thank you for all the explanation that is needed for all of us really appreciate it so no question to ask everything make sense now.
No worries mate it was a video I should've made a long while ago considering how many comments ask abt it!
My Train Line , I love the Tangara's on T4, here's hoping we get some replacements soon and maybe it will be some variation of waratah
Up until at least 2020 Oscars caused issues running on the T4, causing the regen to drop out on the "T sets"
This was a good video. Although I would like to see a Waratah on the T4 just once, I would hate for it to be regularly. Living on the T4 I love being able to always have a Tangara, and I along with some of my other friends on the T4 would not want any other rolling stock on the T4. I find the Tangaras to be a lot more comfortable than the Waratahs and wouldn't exactly call the Waratahs an upgrade... Although I have seen this topic been overused by everyone I have found your video on this topic one of the best on the topic. It is well put together, a lot more informative than most and it is nice to see a video on this topic that doesn't use "Text To Speech".
thanks mate! ye as much as seeing Waratahs on the T4 is rare, it will be redundant if it happens too many times - not too many people came on the industrial action timetabled day because there had already been an event the week before where Waratahs came - same with the 2 days of Millennium runs!
Thank you so much for the support, means a lot!
@@TransitSydneyThese appearances were only a handful .
@@robertmcfadyen9156 yup however they all happened within a few months of the same year.
I'm not aware of Millenniums ever running on the T4 as a regular thing. Also, with the closure of the Bankstown line to regular trains, it opens up the possibility for trains to run via the city circle instead of the ESR. God knows the T4 needs some more paths in peak to ease overcrowding. It might necessitate skipping Wolli Creek though.
@@andrewduffin9216 won’t be happening. ESR needs to maintain a high frequency itself
The Tangaras are OK, just don't like the curved windows on the top deck and could do with some information screens.
They're alright, starting to age and give a lot of technical problems though which causes disruptions on the T4 line pretty often - not to say they're a bad train, but considering other lines are moving on with newer fleets, we should do the same :)
They're easily the most comfortable suburban train, especially considering them seem to have recently installed new padding on the ex-G sets?
@@ziggybadans the ex G sets retained their intercity seating, hence why they are comfortable
@@TransitSydney Yeah but I've been travelling on Tangaras including G sets for years and recently sat down on one and heard this new crunchy padding sound, and it seems like most of them have that now
I suspect if they just order a single-deck fleet for the T4 to replace the Tangaras they won't need to upgrade the power supply and they could run more trains with the digital signalling upgrades that have already been approved for the ESR tunnel. I know they won't do it but they could also order trains capable of running on both AC and DC and then convert the entire ESR and Illawarra & South Coast line to AC as it is completely sectorised from other lines, I think we should have a plan in place to eventually convert the whole network to AC as the assets come up for renewal.
They definitely won't be switching to single deck at least on the Sydney trains fleets anytime soon! Not too sure why they've pretty much refused to upgrade the T4 line and add uniformity to the whole network
@@TransitSydney I think the double deck fetish is weird and perpetuated by people that dont really understand or want to acknowledge the limitations of an all-DD fleet, they really dont perform very well and cause a number of issues plus they cost more and need a bespoke design each time a new fleet design is ordered. I Imagine ST will be looking to do some form of power upgrade when they do the digital signalling later this decade possibly.
@@BigBlueMan118 well the public only supports interesting ideas opposed to the most practical ones, and I don't blame them. The metro is undoubtedly more uncomfortable than the train fleets, so you get less travel time at the expense of comfort.
@@TransitSydney I wasn't talking about Metro though i was talking about something more like Melbourne hcmt trains. And there is nothing comfortable about the DDs when they start to get full because everyone crowds the doors and vestibules or standing on our DDs is a shit experience.
The public have no idea though mate you know that, the public want stupid shit like express trains stopping at Riverview in T8, or middle seats which they hardly use, or Semi-Express stopping patterns on the T2 T3 which save almost no time.
@@BigBlueMan118 I mean the trains in Sydney are definitely more comfortable than the metro particularly due to directional seating, unlike the metro's longitudinal seating. When the metro trains accelerate the longitudinal seating add a level of discomfort unlike the directional DD seating, where the force just makes your back rest on the seat.
This is one of the reasons why I would prefer train over metro despite the longer journey times and lack of reliability - especially for longer journeys
6:19 What do you mean when you say a D set runs using a combination of its own power and the overhead?
Mariyung D sets are designed to operate using their own power. They are electric multiple units (EMUs), which means they have onboard traction equipment that allows them to generate their own power for movement. This capability enables them to run independently on electrified tracks without the need for a separate locomotive (similar to Waratahs) - the main difference is that the D sets consume LESS electricity than the Waratahs
@@TransitSydneyYes of course they're EMUs but they can't operate without power from catenary, just like all other Sydney EMUs. The exception will be the CAF Endeavour/Xplorer/XPT replacements which have pantographs and on-board diesel power generation.
@@peterelvery correct mate.
@@peterelverywhy would the NIFs have a diesel generator??
@@BaxiljnOops! I meant the CAF regional sets have diesel power, not NIF🤦🏻♂️
(Edited above)
2 trains used to work on the T4s by the 2000s Until the Waratahs were on tracks,Then it became 1 train on the T4.
Those 2 trains were Tangaras and S Sets? Also, Millennium's used to run on the T4 when they were first introduced, however they got quickly withdrawn after some issues with the trains themselves, only to be put on other lines ever since.
How come XPT sets running thru there?
@@simonburns1055 trackwork leading into Sydenham xpt centre northern entrance so trains had to use the southern entrance - which requires turning back at Hurstville
5:16 this is not correct a few weeks ago I saw a waratah running on the tempe rail bridge, I was really surprised when i saw it
It is correct. That Waratah was headed to the T8 line via the Sydenham route. Pretty much all info in this video is accurate for the time of editing (which is yesterday), as I've fact checked everything.
@@TransitSydneyoh yeah that makes sense thx for the info, but you said “not a single waratah ran on a single track from Wolli Creek to anywhere on the T4” must’ve misinterpreted it haha i guess you meant no waratah has ran a actual service not just headed to another line
@@Electro8k Wolli Creek platforms above ground are the T4 ones, the local tracks dont count as they dont use the station and instead bypass the whole section entirely :)
I guess I could have been more specific to say upper platforms but I think its pretty obvious considering the topic we're discussing
So the Illawarra line wasn't the real problem, it's the Eastern Suburbs Line. But what would happen to the T4 once the new Tangara fleet replacements enter service? How will they handle the power supply issue or whatever when those new Tangara fleet replacements enter service on that line?
They will likely be able to run under their own power like the Mariyungs. The Illawarra past Hurstville can cause problems but generally the city section is only double tracks so it causes problem
The specifics aren't really confirmed at all so I'm not 100% sure how it would work, but I highly doubt they will upgrade power substations until it is absolutely necessary - also if they were upgrading power supply on the eastern suburbs line, then instead of a tangara replacement train they would be getting more Waratahs (similar to the B set order)
Their main goal is an Australian built train
@@TransitSydney Upgrading the power supply is on the cards. It is a long term project that will require a considerable amount of engineering work and has been factored into the next gen trains. Afaik it was already progressing before the Tangara replacement announcement.
@@Perpetual-sk2ee power supply upgrades are not underway to my understanding - they're instead reducing the power draw of future trains, including the D sets! (which is why they're able to run on the T4 line in the first place)
I believe the tangara replacement will also be designed to have a minimal power draw
@@TransitSydney Not 100% High draw upgrades. Standard upgrades to replace equipment. They internally still refer to it as upgrade power supplies. Since they are replacing old and seriously outdated equipment with modern high efficiency etc which allows for more operations per substation etc etc. Reduced power draw is the goal, but capacity increases are required regardless, system needs to have excess designed into it. Right now certain areas are lacking in that regard.
Will look for the docs on it that made the rounds in 2019/2020 to media, they should still be around hopefully.
Prior administration were pushing for all lines to be able to operate all current sets.
I prefer the Tangaras over the A, B and M sets. Pros, some of them have the higher seats and are more comfortable then the new trains, no cameras which means the guards won’t constantly remind you by making announcements. The lights aren’t too bright.
Cons,
Only downside are the announcements. Some guard barely speak into the microphone while some speak so loudly it starts to hurt your ears and brains.
In all I love the Tangaras on the T4, which the guard is in the middle of the train instead of the back.
" no cameras which means the guards won’t constantly remind you by making announcements" what does this mean? no cameras means no security
windows of the tangaras are horrific to look out of due to the layering and curvature on the top
Guard announcements are inaudible at most times id rather have automated announcements and a pid screen to know where I am
the point abt the guard being in the middle is completely valid :)
Why can’t go beyond Hurstville?
@@matthewpage3356 power supply issues, they can run but only one or 2 sets at a time (they’ve only ever done this in testing)
neat how some trains need more power than others.
@@SamSitar evolution, as more features get added the trains require more power for those features to work
I live near the T1 line & I hate the sound of the Waratahs. I much prefer Tanagaras. Quieter & smoother.
fair enough - Waratah motors do tend to get stuck in the head
What makes Waratahs run so much power!?!?!
they're inefficient thats all
@@TransitSydney To be honset they need to make it all oscars
@@CishShorts too high of a power draw.
@@TransitSydney Wholy you respond so fast!
@@CishShorts anything to procrastinate studying
2k views in 9 hours. Not bad :)
@@Perpetual-sk2ee certainly my best performance ever! Also crushed through 600 way earlier than expected haha
Support makes me want to do more unique content like this :)
@@TransitSydney Quality work always attracts people so you've got that going for you and you have active engagement with your viewers which is also important to facilitate growth. Well deserved :)
@@Perpetual-sk2ee thank you! These types of videos are definitely harder to make and require a lot of time bts editing, time that I don’t currently have much of - the next few weeks will be trainspotting videos for the most part with new concepts and rare sights in each :)
they obviously won’t skyrocket in views or anything but im not really aiming for that at this time anyways
Your Audio on the T4 Video needs a higher level & much clearer. Some words are muffled & hard to understand. When your speaking, there is too much background noise. Good luck. Thank you great videos.
alright mate thanks for the feedback :)
I dont currently have a proper mic so I was trying to do the best alternative, the background noise issue can hopefully be resolved though
Lucky them.
The Waratah trains are garbage. Air conditioning never turned on, cheap Chinese build quality and finish, etc…
I wished that the NSW Government did not shelve the idea of transforming the T4 line from Bondi Junction to Cronulla into a Sydney Metro line as it would bring much needed investment and upgrades along the Bondi Juncton to Cronulla route; thus gentrifying the Eastern Suburbs.
@@mastersingleton closing that line would be so controversial it might sound great but a closure of one of the most important connections to eastern Sydney is not a good thing
@@TransitSydney Yes its controversial but closing and converting the Bankstown to Central section of the Bankstown Line is highly controversial as well; but its a welcomed improvement to the overall Sydney Public Transport network. Even so, closing and converting the Bondi Junction to Cronulla section of the Eastern Suburbs line to Metro for the long term will be great; as infrastructure investment within the Eastern Suburbs has been lagging behind the Northern and Western Suburbs in the past 10 to 15 years.
@@mastersingleton the Bankstown to Central section is not in the CBD and there are alternative ways to get there, unlike the eastern suburbs where bus connections are much more difficult