Sydney's Abandoned Underground Tram Station
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- Опубліковано 7 чер 2023
- The story of an underground railway station that ended up being a tram station that closed in 1958 to reopen as a car park in 1964 only to close itself in 2018 and then briefly re open to the public a light installation as part of the VIVID Festival in 2023.
Videos on this channel are not meant to be 100% accurate historical records. Having said this, we try to ensure they are factually correct by using multiple sources from what we think are credible books, websites, blogs and articles. But we do make mistakes....
Of note: Sydney's original tramlines didn't use colours (or even route numbers) to denote lines - instead they used the 'termini' of each line as their names. In the route animations we have arbitrarily selected colours to differentiate the lines visually on the maps.
#darkspectrum #vividsydney #sonymusic - Авто та транспорт
We had a great tram system, muppets destroyed it, and now newer muppets are trying to bring it back but with different, incompatible systems. The obscene idiocy and cost just blows my mind.
Great video, thanks!
Oil and greed killed domestic trams and trains.
@@theaustralianconundrum and trucking (that's trucking) magnates !
Thank for another excellent video. Bradfield was the Nikola Tesla of town planning. He foresaw Sydney as it is today and wanted the government to set aside corridors for rail radiating out from the CBD like the spokes of a half wheel. Imagine the public money saved if we had followed his vision?
Great analysis. If only WWI and then the Depression hadn't delayed the plans as the bulk of his vision may been delivered by the time 'the car' was seen as solution and his plans went out of favour.
He also formulated a plan to divert water from the great dividing range inland rather than the coast to facilitate farming. That would have been a game-changer for our country.
@@steved3702 Unfortunately our overlords lack any vision.
We need more like him
The section you couldn't get access to is used for weapons training. It's convenient because it's soundproof, in the city and secure. Maybe the other really interesting station with as many secrets is North Sydney and if you have a really keen eye Waverton. Lots of stuff hidden in plain sight
The escape route of the elites
was going to say the same. I have actually been through there once and was amazed of the use,
I grew up in Waverton as a kid, back in the early 70s and again in the middle 80s, I seen so many amazing things in the tunnels between Waverton and Nth Syd stations, I miss the old "red rattlers" riding on those was like nothing else.
@@LogicalAspect1 The Red Rattlers had so much charm & character. Look at these Metro Trains we have now, so boring, sterile and lame. Nothing can compare to the sounds and smells of a Red Rattler going through the tunnels. You could smell the Ozone from the motors and barely talk over the noise. Magical.
@@leokimvideo nailed it in one. 👍
The old trams should never have been disposed of. Now our idiotic governments understand that trams are actually a good idea and are resurrecting them in Sydney, Newcastle, and the Gold Coast.
They should've also followed Bradfield's plans and built the tramline to the northern beaches. Instead all we got were tolled freeways and tunnels everywhere...
That's what oil company lobbying can do
I wish they kept the monorails and actually expanded the locations it visited
My dad was around when trams were in Sydney in the 50’s and they were a pain in the arse, more trouble than they were worth and now they are bringing back the stupidity In Sydney (with a perfectly good train system that already does a CBD loop) and trying to ban cars, the streets aren’t even wide like Melbourne, so it’s no cars in many streets at all now. Buses are more versatile for short distances and just have trains for longer trips.
Thought the exact same thing. Wasting all that money ripping it up just to put it all back. They only think they've done is call it light rail so it's all new and interesting.
I am old enough to remember seeing the trams departing for routes over the Harbour Bridge. It would have to be over 60 years ago. I can still remember those departure bells being activated by the conductors.
How stupid we were to get rid of them
@@Leanflare Dunno about the "we"....the mere plebs didn't get much say, unfortunately.
I remember going via tram in the late 1950's and until this day, I do not understand the logic of why they destroyed one of the best systems in the world.
Truly the biggest injustice discontinuing the original tram system
Same in South Australia!
excellent clip , , i have worked for same company for 27yrs paving the strrets of sydney , , have seen tracks , they are protected and covered , , we did paving to most of george st william st oxford st , , , have seen many things dug up , , BEST was we did paving a bondi pavillion , , the stuff the dug up there , , AMAZING , , old bolttles , many intact , ink bottles , old medicine bottles , , , some worth big $$$ , and in my job i have buried time capsules , with old aussie pennies and notes lol
Governments should hang their heads in shame for not implementing all of these rail lines! Great history presentation!
Fun fact: at the end of #1 Up stub tunnel @8:38 you can see a large white plate against the rock, and again close-up @9:00. This is the hidden staircase which lead from the basement of the former State Lottery Office (York & Barrack St), the entrance when the tunnel was an air raid shelter. City of Sydney archives online has a building surveyor’s report for 8-12 York & 8 Barrack St which confirms this. Above ground corner Wynyard St & York La is an under-developed lot (convenience store with carpark area) - the staircase runs underneath preventing development.
Bradfield was such a visionary. His work really makes you wish that our current governments, all over Australia, had just as much foresight and confidence in what we can achieve as a country.
I recall, as a small child, on a platform at Wynyard. My father lifted me up so I could see over a wall. I could then see the tops of trams moving about. I have often wondered exactly where that was and what the trams were doing there. Thank you.
Another amazing video of yesteryear. I remember the tram station at Wynyard and I remember crossing the Bridge on the last day of trams and I remember being terrified of the tunnels as I was only 6 years old. I remember the stop just outside the portals and the feeling of relief I had at seeing daylight. My grandmother took me on that journey and I have never forgotten it.
As much as I love and enjoy modern technology I still miss the old Sydney, I rarely visit modern Sydney as it doesn't grab me, and thank you for this nice video...I am very sorry if my comment offends anyone. From an old man.
Don't apologise Allan!
Love the history. bazz
From another old man .. I totally agree with you.
My Year 12 Formal was in The Menzies hotel. I drove in and parked in that carpark and never knew for years later it was where Wynyard's tram platforms were! It was valet parking for a long time too, for increased capacity as it wasn't a big carpark.
Travelled by tram during the 50's from Naremburn to Wynyard to go to school.
I remember those days. Progress has its benefits, but what a tourist attraction it would have made today. Sad to see history lost.
Every single tramline of the North Sydney Network is now a bus, and Wynyard Park is a noisy, crowded, stinky terminus for all the buses. L
Taking the trams out wasn't progress. It was public vandalism.
I worked in Carrington St in late 60's and early 70's and explored the Menzies carpark and back then you could still walk to bridge.
Yeah, I worked at 283 George St in the 70s. You could climb stairs from Wynyard Station concourse to the car park, then walk along the tunnel and exit near the south bridge pylon. The insulators for the catenary were still on the ceiling.
As a Sydneysider, I have an interest in the history of Sydney, particularly with the old tram system (I was not yet born when they took them out). I've always wanted to go inside the Wynyard tram tunnels. I finally got this opportunity with Dark Spectrum, part of Vivid, and took photos and videos. Thank you much so much for this comprehensive video and comparing to what was there before and now.
I’ve watched a few videos on the Wynyard trams. This is easily the most comprehensive. Well done.
Glad you enjoyed it!
If you stand on the Central end of platform 3 at Wynyard you can see that the tunnel wall has been infilled with newer brick rather than the smoother concrete of the regular tunnel walls. That's because that part of the wall was never there and it was possible to look into the old tram platforms. When that work was done I'm not sure but it was long before my memories.
Platforms one and two would make very good platforms for a North Shore metro line (with a possible extension to La Perouse and onwards to Cronulla).
There is a North Shore metro line in development, so that area seems to be covered.
I lived in North Sydney as a child and made many trips across the Harbour Bridge by tram, by train, and even on foot.
This video brought back many happy memories. Thank you.
Washington DC has one of these as well. An underground streetcar (tram) station at Dupont Circle, pre-dating the Metro system by decades. It's occasionally been opened as a nightclub or art space over the years. It'd be great if we got our trams back and it was re-opened to its original purpose, but that will probably never happen.
The man from Foggy Bottom ?
Thank you for taking the time and effort to produce this video. I love Sydney's tram history, even the new one.
Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for watching.
In 1988 I went for a job interview in the city and parked near-by. I recall when exiting the carpark driving for what seemed liked ages down a long narrow tunnel that I had no idea even existed before.
I also recall driving down a tunnel like that in the 80's after exiting the car park. I think I exited at or near Hickson Rd Dawes Pt.
Wynyard was used as an air raid shelter the night the Japanese subs came into the harbour. My mother and I were staying at the Metropole hotel (I was 5) and I remember being wrapped in a blanket and being carried by my Mother to the station. I slept most of the time but I do remember us being directed by a msn in a black uniform and a tin hat.
I remember sitting in traffic in the late 90"s at the top of Livingstone Rd and Stanmore Rd/New canterbury Rd, and watching them pull the old tram tracks out from under the tar side of the road with the centre two lanes being concrete... Still some cobblestone left around Marrickville in a few small lanes near Denby street in Meeks Lane off Jabez St old Sydney. and soo many returned service men being processed through the old Marrickville Barricks on Addison Rd just near Illawarra Rd
What a fascinating description. Your voice is very natural and makes for an interesting listen. Well done. As a voice over artist myself I always try to have a more natural tone that you are already achieving. Good on you.
When I was young up to around 17 years old (I am 81 now) & came to Sydney to the city often & I only travelled on the Trams but when we got to Milsons Point from North Sydney, my Cousin a local made me get off the Tram & WALK across the Harbour Bridge because it was an extra Six Pence Toll! (5 cents - Called Zack) That meant walking back across the bridge on the way home. (My Cousin ended up as an Economics Teacher)
The underground tram Stations were just a part of same system so you could look strait across to the trains.
There were two types of Trams, those with an Isle & "Toast Rack" with none - Conductors & Pax used to ride on the side steps.
Hi Marty, thanks for another excellent video. The north Shore trams were always a favourite line for me, especially across the Sydney Harbour Bridge and through to Wynyard. The whole lot sadly closed in 1958 and not known to many, the absence of track to that side of the bridge has actually set the bridge off a few degrees. The bridge was actually designed and specially balanced with rail lines on each side and road in the centre. Maybe one day, they may re-use the eastern side for light rail trams. We can always hope. I remember the stairs going up to Platforms 1 and 2. I actually went up them once in the hope of seeing the former tram station. I was approached by the car park attendant upon entering at the top and asked what was I doing there. I then said innocently "Aren't these the train platforms??" I actually knew they weren't, but I didn't want to get into trouble. The attendant said for me to quickly leave, which I did without argument. I later found out that many other tram enthusiasts had attempted the same thing. Any wonder they later bricked up the stairs!!! Amazingly enough, the car park had a city entrance/exit for cars. I often wonder why they didn't do something like that for the Wynyard trams?? Anyway, take care and all the very best. Rob in Melbourne Australia.
Thanks Rob for the memory. Love the fun fact that the bridge tilted a tad. Cheers m
This was absolutely fantastic. It is such a shame that Bradfield's vision was not completed and, perhaps worse,that trams disappeared in 1961.
Thanks for this vid, I have always been curious about where platforms 1 and 2 were. That doorway you showed at the end is actually an entrance to a shooting range hidden under the road
Fascinating...I used to park in the Wynyard car park (worked at Wynyard in 1989)...it was fun to drive along the tunnels in my car....I did not realise back then they were used for trams having been built for trains....thanks for this very informative fascinating video!!
Once I had the opportunity of walking through the carpark & the remaining tunnels all the way to the barred gate at the end of the portal as shown in your video at 11:30. Didn't have a photo or video camera at the time, would've made for some interesting footage. There was still ballast & rail in place. And a lot of rubbish from the 1950 - 60's including a lot of Scotts Metho bottles.....
Great vid. Great research. Top notch and thank you !
Glad you enjoyed it! yes did a bit of research because I have travelled through this station for decades and didn't really know much of the story myself.
Well that fills in a few gaps for me. I parked there about 5 years ago and thought it was really cool.
I wonder if they would turn it into a big urban bicycle parking cavern for the city or something modern like that.
The saying - shot through like a Bondi Tram.
That's another story altogether, and nothing to do with what was at Wynyard. The story AIRC dated back to the 1880s/90s and Steam Trams running up Oxford St to Bondi Junction. Apparently these trams were somewhat reluctant to stop, and just kept moving. In an era where to most people, the fastest thing in the street was a bolting horse, a tram must've seemed like it had just "shot through!"
That's another story altogether, and nothing to do with what was at Wynyard. The story AIRC dated back to the 1880s/90s and Steam Trams running up Oxford St to Bondi Junction. Apparently these trams were somewhat reluctant to stop, and just kept moving. In an era where to most people, the fastest thing in the street was a bolting horse, a tram must've seemed like it had just "shot through!"
That's some pretty cool history. I'm not from Sydney but have visited a few times and roughly know the area and I love this sort of stuff. Well put together and interesting video mate!
Another brilliant video! I grew up in Sydney, but never explored or appreciated the tramway history in the Sydney CBD.
On a recent holiday to Sydney, we stayed at Taronga Zoo, and spent sometime just exploring the North Shore suburbs. It’s amazing to see that tramlines were the predecessors to the bus routes we used to get around!
Keep the videos going….. next suggestion for something really oddball…. Broken Hill’s former tramway 😜
Very informative. Now I understand why one day, when I caught a train from the Central coast, it stopped at Wynyard. Usually they went through Strathfield and then to Central Station.
One of the Argyle Tunnels now housed the Port of Sydney Pistol Club. I worked in Customs back in the day and many of my colleagues were members. I was given my first introduction to Pistol Shooting in the tunnel. I believe it was also used for Police Weapons training from time to time. I walked up the stairs and past it prior to the Covid lock downs and there was still a sign on the door for the Pistol Club, so I guess it's still a range.
Mate I shot there as well back in the very early nineties ! I was working for Mulvihill Security Group.
There used to be a shooting club with a range in the old Tram tunnels under the bridge, which you would access from Cumberland Street in Circular Quay
This is so sad. Sydney could have been Australias Düsseldorf, Essen, or Dortmund where they use trams as metro in the city center and trams on the outskirts. Some trams connect cities even.
Absolutely awesome and beautiful . Thank you for sharing your video ❤❤
For such a large world business centre, Sydney has some of the worst public transport and expensive road networks in the country. Honestly it is terrible. Most of the time the trains aren't going. The bus system isn't great and the roads are expensive carparks. If there was better planning for reliable public transport it could have been so different. To think it didn't start out so poorly planned. Such a shame.
A really great video.
Awesome video with great information, I always like to discover the things they left behind in the name of "progress" As a kid I remember riding my bike around Parramatta in the 80's with friends and discovering tram tracks in the ground of one of the open carparks, long gone now. There was also the steam trains in Parramatta Park, also gone due to stupid vandals setting fire to the storage sheds. The abandoned looking train line right behind Luna Park always fascinated me too. I have a black and white photo of Baulkham Hills train station, why they ever ripped up the line from Parramatta to Castle Hill is a mystery, and just a few information plaques at prominent parts of it's route still exist. Cheers!
The line to Castle Hill started out as a steam tram line from Parramatta ,then converted to a railway line from Westmead to Castle Hill . The route included Windsor Road as there was never an exclusive rail corridor , so imagine suburban trains using this route today! One surviving relic of this line is a pilon from the bridge over Toongabbie Creek at Northmead. Another abandoned line is the link from St Mary's to what is now Ropes Crossing , with remnants of the station extant. Postscript : I have often looked at some of the old houses along the Windsor Road section of the former Castle Hill line and thought of the fact that they would have been silent witnesses to the railway, when in operation with trains passing their frontages !
I watched this prior to seeing Dark Spectrum in 2023. What I loved about this video is not only you explaining the difference between tunnels and the rationale for their usage but also how now we can still see and enjoy them in a contemporary way.
Thanks! I actually learnt a lot myself just researching the video. Glad you enjoyed it.
Great video thank you .So much history in Sydney.
I used to work on Margaret street and our parking was in those tunnels. I used to sometimes stay at the Menzies when we worked late and only found out a couple of years ago that it had closed and been demolished!
I get off at Wynyard every Monday for work and always wondered about tracks 1 and 2. Now I know. Thanks so much.
Standing on the North Shore platforms at Wynyard looking at the wall displaying billboards are ventilation grilles . When I ventured into this abandoned tram station , when used as a carpark, it was possible to look through these grilles from the carpark side and see passengers waiting on the current platforms for their trains. So just remember, you never know who is watching !
On a recent visit to this area to see Dark Spectrum , I noticed that these openings appear to have been covered up by fan blower units , so no body can see into the " live " platforms anymore .🤭
Turn it into a nightclub, like vivid, but an actual nightclub would be sick. The stub tunnels could even be like the kitchen area, the upper level a bar and the lower level moshpit and the DJ could be up there as well
Cool idea
Didn’t the famous Jamison street night club utilise part of this underground network or was just adjacent to it?
It was under the site of the Amora Hotel i think?
Your videos are excellent Marty 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
That is what they have done with part of the Holborn tram subway in London
Wicked idea
nightclubs are degenerate
Excellent video. Full of nostalgia and it makes me feel a bit sad. I always loved the glazed tiles with different colours used in each of the city circle stations. I think Wynyard was blue, shame it still isn't. 😊
Thank you so much for sharing all of this information, especially the photos. I've long wanted to know more about Sydney's original tram network, and the Wynard Platforms in particular.
Thank you for another awesome video Marty. I really appreciate your passion for the old Sydney tram network. Are you considering making a video on NSW’s second largest tram network Newcastle in the future?
Possibly. As I look for photos for the videos a lot of images from Newcastle do appear and I have been noting them. I like to personally film the current locations of the former lines.. so will need me to make a trip up the M1 and spend a weekend. Not a bad way to spend a weekend. And can visit Foghorn Brewery again.
New Subscribers and we hit the bell 🔔 awesome episode, I used to travel by train in the early 80s, and changed at Wynyard to go to milsons Point, I have always wonder why no number 1&2 now I do and thanks for the history lesson Appreciated
Cheers 🍻🍻KC Cradle Mountain 🏔Tasmania Australia 🇦🇺🤝🇦🇺😎😊👍
What a awesome story on those tunnels .Will defently travel down for the vivid festival if they ever incorporate the tunnels again .
A great video. I’m old enough to remember the trams and travelled from Narrabeen terminus to Manly, before catching a ferry across the harbour.
This was brilliantly edited, researched and narrated. Thank you :) 😃😍😃
Found this the day after I went to Dark Spectrum. Thanks for explaining how it all fit together down there.
Wonderful historic information of Sydney’s trams.Thank you for making and sharing this video.
This is great. Thank you for putting it all together
Great video, last time i was working in Sydney i stayed near there and every time i went through the train station i was like 'where is platform 1 & 2?'.
The Siege of Pinchgut (released in the US as Four Desperate Men)(1959) features footage of the Sydney Harbour Bridge BEFORE the tram tracks were removed. At the start of the film we see the northern approach to the bridge, with the tram bridge crossing over the main road way. This was removed. The runup to it still exists; and is used for parking 65 years later. In the film a motor cycle police officer rides past it before turning around. Why is it still there? The section under it contains retail shops and offices. On the bridge itself there is a scene of a tv broadcast being made from next to the tram tracks. The tram lane on the bridge was converted to vehicle traffic. In 1966-68 while living in Sydney my family went out to Pinchgut for a tour of the island. The "metal door" used in the film was on display, and made from egg cartons.
Thanks for the share. Will see if I can find that film. Thanks!
@@backtracks.channel - Arr Jim Lad. You might have to get out the skull and cross bones to find it.
Thank you for this insightful & fabulous historical video! 🙏🏻 I had completely forgotten the carpark mentioned. As a boy of 10 I now remember my father using this carpark daily. Thank you for this forgotten and precious family memory!!
There was an abandoned tram and bus warehouse in the middle of the bush at Loftus, south of Sydney not far from the Tram museum. Very old and very cool trams in there dating back to the 1890's. It was surrounded by dense bush tucked away off the Princes Highway. It was destroyed by fire a few years ago and they were all destroyed unfortunately. Was a cool place.
That warehouse in the bush was where the tram museum used to be before it moved across the Princes Highway to where it is now. I remember visiting it once when I was a kid.
@Wade Bowmer oh cool, I didn't know that. I thought it was just an old forgotten storage shed. It's a shame the trams were destroyed although they were in terrible condition before the fire.
if he ever wants to do more train line video's i know where the old zigzag railway used to go up the mountains and where the tunnels are still today from that line before it was removed around emu plains etc :)
That would be a cool video. I live in Sydney and was working on a project in Bathurst just before Covid lockdowns hit so spent a fair bit of time driving back and forth over the mountains on Bells Line of Road, which passes close to the old line at several points as I'm sure you know. I wondered where it originally connected to the outer-urban network and how much further inland it ran (to Lithgow I guess?).
Awesome, i used go exploring througout these tunnels in the 80s when they were car parks, fascinating
That was a really informative and awesome video. Thanks for making this!
Glad you enjoyed it!
A short point - trains also head west to Strathfield and from there head north to Rhodes, where the Parramatta River is crossed, and on to Hornsby via Epping.
Thanks for explaining the Wynyard tunnels. It made my visit to Dark Spectrum a little clearer but also very confusing at the same time!
I worked in Carrington Street in the '90s, so the Wynyard tunnels car park was something I used frequently. There was a really cool short-cut as a pedestrian from the Menzies hotel through to Cumberland Street. But I always had the feeling something else was going on or more correctly, it had been designed for something else.
Fabulous! Thanks.
That was really interesting! Many thanks for a great video!
Great video, combining history with a contemporary lens through Vivid…
Oh and I love videos with tunnels
Just discovered your channel. Nice work keep them coming
Welcome aboard!
Excellent presentation, well scripted and the best and most accurate voiceover on YT.
Oh this is great.. it provides lots of awesome context for what I saw in there! 😺
Used to use the tram from Milsons Poi t to Wynyard and return regularly. Don’t know why they ever got rid of them.
Great vid, never knew this. Subscribed 👍
wow so interesting you did a great job explaining this ... I really want to explore these tunnels and many others, Thank you
Amazing video. Thank you. I feel that urban sprawl and cars ruined Sydney and Australia. They should've kept things how they were pre-1960s. It's better for society and community to use public transport rather than driving everywhere and clogging up the roads, having the need to build more and more bigger carparks, polluting the air and becoming lazy and obese.. .which is what has happened.
JJ Bradfield was a visionary.
I used that car park once for some reason. Such an awkward and claustrophobic place to drive around.
You need to do the tunnels from the city to Centennial Park. When I was first homeless, back in the 80's, we used to sleep in the old tunnels at St James stn. Lots of different people have lived there over the years, until it was blocked off.
Thanks for the share. Yes I believe these were for the never build Eastern Suburbs lines of the Bradfield System. As you say I don't think the public can get in there any more. Would be great to see them though.
Ive been told that the commission that recommended getting rid of the trams had two members from British Leyland. They sold a lot of buses an probably gave a lot of bribes.
Extremely interesting. Thank you.
The transition away from Trams in Sydney has to be one of the worst decisions by a state government in the last century.
Echt gut gemacht, gefällt mir sehr !
Schätze es wirklich. Danke fürs zuschauen.
I travelled on a Sydney tram when I was little. Like the cane toad, people make mistakes.
7:00 - Photo taken pre-1953, as the destination board shows the Kurrajong station on the Richmond line, which was closed in 1952 due to a landslide.
Yes interesting eh. I saw the old destination board at the Powerhouse Museum and saw that had Kurrajong on it as well. Didn't know it once went there..
My mother would take me on the old tram into the city from Petersham. I was just a little girl and the 2nd world war was raging. The trams then had wooden slatted seats. I loved the tram rides so much. These trams would be some of the earliest I think, they had wooden slatted seats and the sides were open. I haven't seen Sydney for many years and I am sure it has changed greatly. Thank you for showing this as it part of our colourful history.I would hope they could somehow run a few of the old trams there some where, it could be a good tourist attraction.
Great memories. Thanks for sharing. yes Sydney was well known for it's "Cross Bench" trams. They were in use nearly right to the end of the System. They were fast to load / unload and could carry a lot of people. Not so good in the rain though :)
Good history, thanks mate!
Fascinating video, thanks! 😊
Glad you enjoyed it!
I was a Station Assistant at Milson's point Railway Station in 1965. Beautiful views from there. Now and then I had to walk down along the bridge railway tracks to put out fires with a bucket of water. Oil from the trains on the wooden sleepers would catch fire. Once in 1965 a young fellow fell of the train and hit himself on a bridge stanchion. I had to run down and stop trains coming from Wynyard toward him. That was on the front page of the Herald at the time.
Thanks for sharing the memories. Appreciate it.
Solid video i've always wanted to explore the tram tunnels
Great video and well presented.
Incredible quality content thank you
Glad you enjoyed it!
I walked in some of them as a teenager. Parked cars in Wynyard for my job interview with a parking company. Thanks.
I remember riding on trams until 1965, i was 15 then, my parents would use them most times we visited the city🤠