We’ve all done it - you apologize because you just want it to stop, and you assume that the people who are so upset must have some valid reason for being upset that you don’t grasp. But then when they use your apology against you it becomes imperative to actually dig deep into the issue, and you discover they’re wrong and you’re right. It’s a very lonely and also a weirdly enlightening feeling to have learn that people who are EXTREMELY PASSIONATE about something are all just plain wrong about it. Suddenly you have to make a choice about the direction of your life. Shove this information down and go along with things you know aren’t true just to get along, or change your entire world. Bravo to those who choose the latter.
The lesson I have learned when you haven’t actually hurt someone is NEVER apologize. Those who claim/pretend to be offended by your beliefs or opinions will never be satisfied by you groveling to return to their good graces. They are sharks that sense blood in the water.
@@roseosterndorf1265 Yes, it is a lesson one eventually learns. But only after something like this happens, which you can’t ignore any longer. Whether in a toxic family, or within a toxic culture, these lessons stick with you. We will all be vindicated eventually. But it’s really hard to have to feel like you’re ostracized by your own.
The people who are most passionate about such things often turn out to be the most ignorant. All I did was actually listen to the people they demonized, to find they hadn’t said the things they’d been accused of saying, and read the news items and scientific articles that they claimed to support their position, and find them full of logical inconsistency, unfounded conclusions, poor methodology, invalid statistical inferences, etc.…and the ones that didn’t, actually concluded the opposite of what the activists claimed.
I am commenting on this without any knowledge of Mumford & Sons, so Winston's post-band career is all I know of him. The humility he showed in his response to the first dogpile also enhances his interviews greatly.
First heard Winston playing with Mumford and Sons on NPR in spring 2009 - sitting in a car outside my then boyfriends house - a detail I think I only remember because of how impressed I was with the music. I then saw them live at ACL in Austin in 2016. Very cool to see his journey and wishing Winston success after his outcast
I loved this interview. So much substance and laughter! I hope more people have the experience Winston articulates 28 minutes in: "Oh, everyone is acting the same thing."
@@stephanieroth16 Andy Gno opened my eyes to something I had suspected and seen evidence of myself - that many of these “hate” incidents were totally unrelated to the persons identity. I’ve seen this sort of behavior myself. Someone causes a bad situation, or lives a dangerous lifestyle, and then when the inevitable happens they cry that it’s because of their identity, and not because of their own actions. Andy Gno was the first public figure brave enough to say it out loud. He helped to debunk the narrative that even the gender critical movement was going along with until it was finally proven out loud - that the vast majority of these events had zero to do with identity.
"Speaking truthfully and speaking sincerely is the only way to unlock an entire culture from this almost like a mass delusion, mass inability to speak truthfully" minute 41
It is disappointing to hear Winston, Sasha, and Stella conflate Black Lives Matter and antifa - at one point, Winston refers to "Antifa-BLM," which sounds like a right wing talking point - AND make no distinction between the riots that broke out after George Floyd's murder and the organized marches and protests that many people participated in peaceably during the summer of 2020. Both can be true, i.e. that the mainstream media glosses over the number of people who were killed in the violence, AND right wing media dishonestly reports on the different incidents as if they were all one big violent uprising by "the left." And I don't think I heard a single mention of police violence in the entire discussion, which is what sparked all of it. This program has slowly morphed from an oasis of sanity and thoughtfulness concerning gender ideology into a player in the U.S. culture wars, elevating the likes of Matt Walsh and Libs of TikTok. Nevertheless, I will miss the two of you working together on the podcast and hope you will be just as critical of "the right" as it ascends to power in the U.S. as you are of the left in your upcoming live events and individual ventures. Stella, I pray that you will never have to endure a leader in Ireland as selfish, corrupt, dictatorial, and vengeful as Donald Trump.
Word. American policeman killing someone because they're black = all good in the name of duty. Black people engaging in protests, which sometimes turn violent out of sheer frustration because nothing else HAS WORKED = da Evil Woke Left running wild. I want to believe that Sasha and Stella are just being naive here, rather than actively supportive, by swallowing the right's culture war narrative and giving it an episode as if they're just impartial observers. But it's certainly left a bad taste in my mouth.
As someone on “the right”, while there are more disengaged people who lump it all together, I can guarantee that most right wing people know there’s a broad gulf between the normal people trying to “do good” by protesting and the antifa and rioters. The problem is that most of the BLM “leaders” were scammers and/or part of an activist continuum with the antifa wing. So in the best of lights, my friends who went out to protest in good faith were used to gin up money and support for some kind of attempted American race communist uprising/anti-racist themed donation scam, which was much less amusing in the moment than it sounds now. The validity or not of excessive police violence is almost irrelevant at that point, which is probably frustrating for the local campaigners who thought they could get something done. Either way, I don’t think this conversation needed a “both sides” summary of the situation, considering it only intersects on antifa specifically. I am glad, though, that this podcast continues to attract such a wide-ranging audience. The common ground between people can only continue to grow if we keep this up.
I agree with you partially, although it did get tiring hearing about "mostly peaceful protests" in which buildings were burned down. That's not peaceful. It was also ridiculous how people like Trevor Noah refused to say that destroying property, especially the property of small business owners in poor areas, is counterproductive and wrong. He simply said that White people had not right to condemn how Black people expressed their outrage. Really? So if someone had started shooting up preschools because they were outraged about police violence, we couldn't criticize that? Also, we had been told for three months that spending time in groups was forbidden because it would spread COVID (which it did), but it was suddenly OK for thousands of people to be crowded together chanting and screaming, and that was fine? COVID somehow knew that protests were safe? Of course, we eventually learned that spreading COVID outdoors was very rare, but at the time, all the health experts suddenly said that we should stay at home, but it was also all right to protest. Police violence hadn't gone up from 2019 to 2020. In fact, police brutality has dropped precipitously from the bad old days when cops regularly roughed people up as examples. All that has changed is that everyone can record everything now. So we see more police violence, but it's actually at historically low levels.
Also curious that the first half hour or so of the interview (which is about where I got to before giving up) contains almost nothing about trans or gender issues. Isn't this "Gender: A Wider Lens" any more? Or has that been supplanted by "Right wing freedom of speech cliche: A narrower lens"? I think S & S are probably right in their episode a couple of weeks ago: It's time to call it a day.
@@GruffaloBalls so you saw that episode then, and yet you chose to make this comment as if you hadn’t seen it? They stated very clearly that they both wanted to move beyond just the one issue.
Geez, chill out. Ok, you only want to hear about what you want to hear about, that's fine. To some, stories of integrity and courage are inspiring - no matter the issue.
@@goodgrief888 They stated different ways they wanted to approach the question of gender. I don't remember them talking about departing from gender altogether and spending whole episode on general alt-right "free speech" paranoia - but maybe I missed something. Also I took that as being about what they planned to do AFTER G.A.W.L finishes early this year, and why they want to go their separate ways, not what the last few episodes of G.A.W.L would consist of.
@@Badlands_moon It's more that if I look at an episode of a podcast about gender (the clue is in the name), in which every single one of the other c.200 episodes have been about gender, I expect it to be about gender. If I want to listen to an entitled rich kid wailing about everyone else not sharing hs enthusiasm for the far right, God knows there's no shortage of such content out there. Anyway, Sasha and Stella have nailed their colours to the mast - that's fine, I don't have to watch. It just seems a shame to take such a politically divisive position this late in the podcast's life, having managed to avoid it till now.
Stellas yah rather than yeh is interesting.. Most irish say yeh even middle classes - so where she picked up the yah i dont know. Its a bit pretentious
whenever someone uses the word "antifa" i know im about to hear the dumbest version of an opinion - left or right. andy ngo is such a dork and a loser, and calling him a brave person is what a dork would do, and calling his book good is what a loser would do. you can learn about political violence and groups without doing so in a loser way, and you can share your opinions without looking like a dork - you just opted to not do that so you got clowned on. its like when far left people go "Destiny is a good debater/made some good point" - doesnt matter, he's a cuck and a loser so being like "good idea smart guy" would also make you look like a cuck loser.
So these white people in Europe said white Americans aren't racist. Lost me completely there. I dont talk about racism or complain i just accept it. I guess as long as im not being physically harmed i better just deal because the gaslighting is maddening.
What a charming, thoughtful & intelligent, young man. Plus (and I make no apology for this, as a ‘woman of a certain age!) very easy on the eye 😊
As a man of "a certain age", so are the ladies!
I agree with everything you said & as a gay man of a certain age I agree with that also. 😊
I agree with you both.
As a straight, married man, I'm able to appreciate his charm and attractiveness. 😊
Love Winston Marshall and his integrity. Thanks for having him on!
We’ve all done it - you apologize because you just want it to stop, and you assume that the people who are so upset must have some valid reason for being upset that you don’t grasp. But then when they use your apology against you it becomes imperative to actually dig deep into the issue, and you discover they’re wrong and you’re right. It’s a very lonely and also a weirdly enlightening feeling to have learn that people who are EXTREMELY PASSIONATE about something are all just plain wrong about it. Suddenly you have to make a choice about the direction of your life. Shove this information down and go along with things you know aren’t true just to get along, or change your entire world. Bravo to those who choose the latter.
The lesson I have learned when you haven’t actually hurt someone is NEVER apologize. Those who claim/pretend to be offended by your beliefs or opinions will never be satisfied by you groveling to return to their good graces. They are sharks that sense blood in the water.
Yes I think it’s a very human response and totally understandable.
@@roseosterndorf1265 Yes, it is a lesson one eventually learns. But only after something like this happens, which you can’t ignore any longer. Whether in a toxic family, or within a toxic culture, these lessons stick with you. We will all be vindicated eventually. But it’s really hard to have to feel like you’re ostracized by your own.
The people who are most passionate about such things often turn out to be the most ignorant. All I did was actually listen to the people they demonized, to find they hadn’t said the things they’d been accused of saying, and read the news items and scientific articles that they claimed to support their position, and find them full of logical inconsistency, unfounded conclusions, poor methodology, invalid statistical inferences, etc.…and the ones that didn’t, actually concluded the opposite of what the activists claimed.
I am commenting on this without any knowledge of Mumford & Sons, so Winston's post-band career is all I know of him. The humility he showed in his response to the first dogpile also enhances his interviews greatly.
First heard Winston playing with Mumford and Sons on NPR in spring 2009 - sitting in a car outside my then boyfriends house - a detail I think I only remember because of how impressed I was with the music.
I then saw them live at ACL in Austin in 2016.
Very cool to see his journey and wishing Winston success after his outcast
I loved this interview. So much substance and laughter! I hope more people have the experience Winston articulates 28 minutes in: "Oh, everyone is acting the same thing."
Some of my favorite people in one place. My heart loves this.
Love these two ladies! Empathic but critical of misplaced empathy.
Great conversation. I really appreciate everyone's perspective and honesty about being cancelled. Happy New Year to you all🎉
A man of integrity, intelligence and talent.
He is the direct opposite of the malicious extremists who put trans ideology ahead of all that is good and wholesome.
I enjoy banjo. It’s like mandolin with attitude.
Andy Ngo writes well and courageously about the blindness of trans ideology and people who choose cult like thinking instead of critical analysis.
@@stephanieroth16 Andy Gno opened my eyes to something I had suspected and seen evidence of myself - that many of these “hate” incidents were totally unrelated to the persons identity. I’ve seen this sort of behavior myself. Someone causes a bad situation, or lives a dangerous lifestyle, and then when the inevitable happens they cry that it’s because of their identity, and not because of their own actions. Andy Gno was the first public figure brave enough to say it out loud. He helped to debunk the narrative that even the gender critical movement was going along with until it was finally proven out loud - that the vast majority of these events had zero to do with identity.
my daughter has a banjo that was bought for my father, then my brother picked at it a wee bit, before he passed.
What's the difference between a banjo and a trampoline?
You take your shoes off before jumping on a trampoline.
banjo over the ukulele any day.
I really love banjo's but never learned to play, not everyone hates banjo's.
"Speaking truthfully and speaking sincerely is the only way to unlock an entire culture from this almost like a mass delusion, mass inability to speak truthfully" minute 41
For banjo lovers - Casey Chambers version of Eminem's "Lose Yourself" ua-cam.com/video/S70xek3x4ro/v-deo.html
banjo with Atitude
Andy Ngo is not objective.
“Medicallly alleviate a metaphor…” ?? 55:11
It is disappointing to hear Winston, Sasha, and Stella conflate Black Lives Matter and antifa - at one point, Winston refers to "Antifa-BLM," which sounds like a right wing talking point - AND make no distinction between the riots that broke out after George Floyd's murder and the organized marches and protests that many people participated in peaceably during the summer of 2020. Both can be true, i.e. that the mainstream media glosses over the number of people who were killed in the violence, AND right wing media dishonestly reports on the different incidents as if they were all one big violent uprising by "the left." And I don't think I heard a single mention of police violence in the entire discussion, which is what sparked all of it. This program has slowly morphed from an oasis of sanity and thoughtfulness concerning gender ideology into a player in the U.S. culture wars, elevating the likes of Matt Walsh and Libs of TikTok. Nevertheless, I will miss the two of you working together on the podcast and hope you will be just as critical of "the right" as it ascends to power in the U.S. as you are of the left in your upcoming live events and individual ventures. Stella, I pray that you will never have to endure a leader in Ireland as selfish, corrupt, dictatorial, and vengeful as Donald Trump.
Word. American policeman killing someone because they're black = all good in the name of duty. Black people engaging in protests, which sometimes turn violent out of sheer frustration because nothing else HAS WORKED = da Evil Woke Left running wild. I want to believe that Sasha and Stella are just being naive here, rather than actively supportive, by swallowing the right's culture war narrative and giving it an episode as if they're just impartial observers. But it's certainly left a bad taste in my mouth.
As someone on “the right”, while there are more disengaged people who lump it all together, I can guarantee that most right wing people know there’s a broad gulf between the normal people trying to “do good” by protesting and the antifa and rioters. The problem is that most of the BLM “leaders” were scammers and/or part of an activist continuum with the antifa wing.
So in the best of lights, my friends who went out to protest in good faith were used to gin up money and support for some kind of attempted American race communist uprising/anti-racist themed donation scam, which was much less amusing in the moment than it sounds now.
The validity or not of excessive police violence is almost irrelevant at that point, which is probably frustrating for the local campaigners who thought they could get something done.
Either way, I don’t think this conversation needed a “both sides” summary of the situation, considering it only intersects on antifa specifically.
I am glad, though, that this podcast continues to attract such a wide-ranging audience. The common ground between people can only continue to grow if we keep this up.
I agree with you partially, although it did get tiring hearing about "mostly peaceful protests" in which buildings were burned down. That's not peaceful. It was also ridiculous how people like Trevor Noah refused to say that destroying property, especially the property of small business owners in poor areas, is counterproductive and wrong. He simply said that White people had not right to condemn how Black people expressed their outrage. Really? So if someone had started shooting up preschools because they were outraged about police violence, we couldn't criticize that? Also, we had been told for three months that spending time in groups was forbidden because it would spread COVID (which it did), but it was suddenly OK for thousands of people to be crowded together chanting and screaming, and that was fine? COVID somehow knew that protests were safe? Of course, we eventually learned that spreading COVID outdoors was very rare, but at the time, all the health experts suddenly said that we should stay at home, but it was also all right to protest.
Police violence hadn't gone up from 2019 to 2020. In fact, police brutality has dropped precipitously from the bad old days when cops regularly roughed people up as examples. All that has changed is that everyone can record everything now. So we see more police violence, but it's actually at historically low levels.
Also curious that the first half hour or so of the interview (which is about where I got to before giving up) contains almost nothing about trans or gender issues. Isn't this "Gender: A Wider Lens" any more? Or has that been supplanted by "Right wing freedom of speech cliche: A narrower lens"? I think S & S are probably right in their episode a couple of weeks ago: It's time to call it a day.
@@GruffaloBalls so you saw that episode then, and yet you chose to make this comment as if you hadn’t seen it? They stated very clearly that they both wanted to move beyond just the one issue.
Geez, chill out. Ok, you only want to hear about what you want to hear about, that's fine.
To some, stories of integrity and courage are inspiring - no matter the issue.
@@goodgrief888 They stated different ways they wanted to approach the question of gender. I don't remember them talking about departing from gender altogether and spending whole episode on general alt-right "free speech" paranoia - but maybe I missed something. Also I took that as being about what they planned to do AFTER G.A.W.L finishes early this year, and why they want to go their separate ways, not what the last few episodes of G.A.W.L would consist of.
@@Badlands_moon It's more that if I look at an episode of a podcast about gender (the clue is in the name), in which every single one of the other c.200 episodes have been about gender, I expect it to be about gender. If I want to listen to an entitled rich kid wailing about everyone else not sharing hs enthusiasm for the far right, God knows there's no shortage of such content out there. Anyway, Sasha and Stella have nailed their colours to the mast - that's fine, I don't have to watch. It just seems a shame to take such a politically divisive position this late in the podcast's life, having managed to avoid it till now.
Ah yes. Another one who can’t abide people who think clearly and behave like human beings.
Stellas yah rather than yeh is interesting.. Most irish say yeh even middle classes - so where she picked up the yah i dont know. Its a bit pretentious
whenever someone uses the word "antifa" i know im about to hear the dumbest version of an opinion - left or right. andy ngo is such a dork and a loser, and calling him a brave person is what a dork would do, and calling his book good is what a loser would do. you can learn about political violence and groups without doing so in a loser way, and you can share your opinions without looking like a dork - you just opted to not do that so you got clowned on. its like when far left people go "Destiny is a good debater/made some good point" - doesnt matter, he's a cuck and a loser so being like "good idea smart guy" would also make you look like a cuck loser.
I think your point would be better made if you had a more extensive vocabulary. Loser, cuck, dumb, dork stops the conversation.
He was referring to a time a few years ago when people were self identifying as “antifa.” You go ahead with your bad self.
‘Dork’, ‘cuck’, ‘loser’…. Are you 13 years old?
Repeatedly referring to someone as a loser to create an argument sounds very loser-ish
Did you use your alt accounts to upvote yourself? Or are there really 4 illiterate 13 yr olds who upvote anyone who just calls everyone a loser?
So these white people in Europe said white Americans aren't racist. Lost me completely there. I dont talk about racism or complain i just accept it. I guess as long as im not being physically harmed i better just deal because the gaslighting is maddening.