I'd lose 1000 hours of my life in Pathfinder Kingmaker | MandaloreGaming Reaction
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- Опубліковано 30 вер 2024
- Pathfinder: Kingmaker Review by MandaloreGaming
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The lore about DnD 4th edition is that 3.5 Edition was considered one of the best but the creators saw how popular video games and MMOs were getting and were like “WE NEED A PIECE OF THAT!!!!!” and tried to make a ttrpg that would be more MMO. And the general consensus is that it was very bad, alongside them refusing to make digital versions of anything because they were horrified at the thought of pirating and made the game less accessible in the process. Pathfinder as a game system was made in response by people that wanted 3.5 to continue but without being dragged down by people who seemed to not care about it, and now they have just released Pathfinder 2nd edition remastered, which has removed everything leftover from DnD’s Open License content.
He says acting like 3e and 5e and Pathfinder aren't also all "video game" D&D
@@Rannos22 They're not. Pathfinder is dozens and dozens of books you need to look through every level up. It is very much NOT a video game, where you would just pick one of the two branches on a skilltree available to you.
@@Rannos22 The first D&D video game was in 2E.
As one of the creatures that played 4e, I'll explain the whole thing.
Basically they made a Warcraft RPG that cool down abilities and was much more mini and map focused, it didn't do well.
They then Turned it into 4e It was not received well and ended up with most people playing 3.5 and the creation of Paizo and their game Pathfinder.
Now that I've watched the whole video: Yeah, Kingmaker is excellent. It's also very long. Owlcat instantly became one of my Developers To Watch.
As a monoclass guy, I think you would enjoy Pathfinder 2nd edition. In that game, you stick with one class - but you can add aspects of another class by taking multiclassing feats. You can be a fighter, but cast some spells through the Sorcerer Dedication feat chain, for instance.
Or you could just play a magus or eldritch knight in Pathfiner 1. Which is the same thing, with some of it's own specialties as well.
As someone who has beaten this game, a few months back. There are somethings that I think either Mandalore didn't know about or was changed.
About Darvin, his creator as Mandalore said, was a major donator to the games Kickstarter and thus got to design a quest for the game, so we got this OC (Mary Sue) who gets into a conflict with the Hellknights, a faction of extremely lawful knights, where you are constantly being pushed to help the OC. But there is a reward for helping the Hellknights, though it is very easy to lock yourself out of it and thus you will only get insults for your trouble. The reward is a buff to your kingdom that will keep raising your kingdom stability if it drops past a certain point, it's pretty good as if your stability drops too low then game over.
Also for the house dungeon, and most of the endgame, one of the threats he talked about, the paralysis, can be stopped by a specific feat (Blind Fight) as it's secondary effect stops their gaze, the enemy's method of attack, from paralyzing your character.
I think someone posted a comment on Mandalore's video explaining the steps to side with the Hellknights and holy crap is it complicated.
D&D 4e's biggest problem is that it tried to be the next mainline edition. It is a pretty good tactical skirmish game on its own and could have made for a great spinoff game, but having to carry on the legacy of the very popular 3.5e (which is just 3e but with some of the early jank cut out, and most books from the period are 3.5e) means that a lot of people didn't like how all of their books had now become obsolete. Paizo, which at the time was responsible for the two fan magazines Dungeon (for DMs) and Dragon (for players) had been working on their own adventure path and matching setting. With 4e Wizards of the Coast took the licence for the magazines back so they could release them online with a subscription model, so Paizo decided to go all in on their setting and created Pathfinder, which is more or less 3.75e to promote interusability. This was possible under the Open Gaming License, which meant that as long as you didn't use certain trademarked or brand identity names (so you can't just write your own books about Waterdeep or the Forgotten Realms, and you couldn't just use monsters like Beholders or Illithid) and printed a page-long licence in the back of your book you'd be fine. Both Kingmaker and Wrath of the Righteous run on what is essentially 3.75e D&D.
Things trudged along for a while, with Paizo releasing many different adventure paths for Pathfinder. This is where Kingmaker and Wrath of the Rightous came from in the first place. Then Paizo essentially decided to do the same thing that Wizards of the Coast did and released the second edition of their game. This version is radically different and not compatible with the first one, which had the grognards grumbling all over again. But since this was right before the Coof hit their sales did well enough and they carried on. Then late 2022 hit and Wizards of the Coast decided to shoot themselves in both feet by announcing that the Open Gaming Licence, which did even better for 5e than it did for 3.5e, would be altered so that Wizards now owned everything you printed, could do with it whatever they wanted, if you made over 50k selling your books you would have to let Wizards audit you on your dime, if you made over 750k you'd have to give them a quarter of your gross revenue for every cent over that (essentially meaning they could take the money you'd pay your printers with) and you'd waive your right to sue. Aside from such a contract being very illegal in several countries like the Commonwealth and most of Europe, this was an irreconcilable breach of trust in an industry where informality and friendly competition is the norm.
Aside from the complaints on social media, pretty much everyone who is even close to being a player in the TTRPG industry told WotC to shove it and went their own way. Some people swore off D&D altogether, companies like Kobold Press who had been dilligently been printing books first for Pathfinder and then for 5e (they are mostly known for their extensive monster books, one of which injected the buff kobold called the _swolbold_ into the popular consensus) who opted to create their own system instead. But Paizo decided to take the opportunity to create a new license that would A: protect their own game since Pathfinder 2e was legally still enough like 3.5e that they used the OGL) and B: to prevent stuff like this happening again. This announcement combined with Wizards doubling down meant that Paizo sold eight months' worth of Pathfinder books in two weeks, and gave them a lot of goodwill. Paizo arguably was the number two in the TTRPG environment, and with them laying the groundwork for the Open RPG Creative Licence (or ORC License) that would would allow people to do what the OGL did but A: nobody could claim ownership of what you'd make, B: the licence itself would be made by the legal firm that made the OGL and would ensure that it would come under stewardship of a non-profit to avoid other corporations gaining ownership of it and C: that it would be both perpetual and irrevocible. While there's been skepticism on the ORC Licence (basically anything released under ORC would not have protectable product identity, you can't really combine an ORC work with a non-ORC work, issues with porting the work between media; this is what is known as a viral licence), most of the large parties have thrown their lot in with Paizo and the ORC licence for now. Paizo itself has been updating its 2e books into a Revised version, stripping out everything that even resembled the mechanics and creatures of D&D to truly become its own thing. This does meant that certain iconic creatures have been greatly changed, so veterans will have to figure out which monster is which. They also did away with alignment, but whether that is a good or a bad thing is a debate for the ages.
So basically Wizards of the Coast got too greedy for its own good, alienated its userbase (on top of doing other shady stuff like cracking down on anyone trying to make a Virtual Tabletop that is not just a digital version of you moving models around on a board) and empowered their competition like never before. So GG, Wizards. GG.
Both Pathfinder games don't have co-op, both Kingmaker and Wrath of The Righteous are purely single-player. Only Owlcat's third game WH40k: Rogue Trader has kind of coop where other players can control party characters with permission from main player.
Some of the best things about Pathfinder 1e were the hybrid class and archetype design. Yes you could multiclass, but if you’re looking for a certain play style for a class, chances are there was an archetype that did it for you. And hybrid classes mixed two classes together to create a class that felt completely unique. The Hunter and the Bloodrager classes come to mind for that. The alchemist having an archetype that was part gunslinger was fun too.
So im a huge pathfinder nerd. These crpgs literally take the take the ttrpgs and make the computer roll the dice. Because of that ypu get the wierd difficulty spikes. Pathfinder combat can be notably pretty tough and a few random crits can just mean a dead character. Swarms and ghosts are good examples as they can be low level threats that s party just cant win against if they dont have the right options.
Pathfinder Wrath of the Righteous also has adjustable difficulty with many different settings just like this game, it's something I really like
I don't know about Kingmake but WotR does have a transmog system for making your gear look like other stuff and it does have a rotating camera. I didn't even know Kingmaker didn't have that, that's crazy
You should see Mandalore's videos on 'The Mystery of the Druids', 'Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magic Obscure', and 'Limbo of the Lost'. those games are a trip and a half.
4th ed D&D was a horrendous downgrade. It made a good table top game, but a BAD RPG game. All the mechanics where geared to be more moving pieces around in a board, and more a turn based tabletop game. It felt like a betrayal of what D&D is.
Congrats, you just described almost every D&D prior to WotC buying the rights
The companions in Rogue Trader are definitely done a lot better and they went in a very different direction with them, since the characters in Rogue Trader (with one exception) already know who and what they want to be, so their own personal stories deal with how they achieve their dreams, or fail in the attempt.
Rogue Trader does have its own issues though, namely with the difficulty. As soon as you have access to the Arch-Militant class, the game might as well be over because that class is absurdly overpowered. A single character with that class can kill more in a turn than the rest of your party combined, and each time they make an attack (and they have skills that let them make 10x the attacks they're supposed to), they become more skilled (increasing hit chance, critical hit chance, and damage) and are harder to hurt in return.
When I played and beat Rogue Trader I went with a diverse party where everyone was every class, which is why I'm able to tell you that if you do play it, your games should be divided into "uses Arch-Militants" and "doesn't use Arch-Militants" because there's no point to the other classes (aside from the Officer, who makes the Arch-Militant even more laughably overpowered by giving them 2 extra turns) if you use Arch-Militants.
I hear you and I raise you Cassia
@@cathulionetharn5139 I said with one exception. The exception is Cassia. She is also an officer, which I also included as being the only class worth using alongside the Arch-Militant if you wanted to make the strongest party.
@@lich109 yeah, but imho it's not just officer, her navigator powers are absurdly broken
@@cathulionetharn5139 You can't choose to be a navigator, and also if we're comparing them, the Arch-Militant is still far stronger.
@@lich109 oh shit really?
'cos my officer cassia plus my officer MC (commisar background) almost took out the chapter 4 boss (tzeench demon) on turn one, and if not for bad position at start of the fight (you start where you ended the uralon one) I think I could have done it.
So archmilitant being stronger is kinda shocking to me.
I disagree with the general consensus on DnD 4E. It does some things very very well: It makes character classes feel distinct and heroic even from level 1. It clarifies many things about combat. I prefer the encounter-based power system it presents to the day-based power system of other DnD editions. I think it's DnD but more so; DnD has wargame roots and has always been very focused on the combat systems. Even 5E focuses heavily on the combat systems, and with its smaller amount of non-combat skills than even 3.5E, it sort of handwaves away all of the roleplaying and tells the GM: "You deal with it. I certainly won't help you."
There are far better systems than DnD and DnD derivatives if your focus is on roleplaying. Their strong combat design focus means that they make excellent game engines to build video games on, though. 4E would make a brilliant CRPG.
Finally a sane 4e opinion. Acknowledge what it did well and what it didn't. People have these ridiculously rabid opinions on what is a relatively tame thing.
4e just wasn't 3.75 so it drove people mad. SHOCKER that you've gotta make a different type of game at some point right?
4th ed made everyone a super hero. It's not "Billy the farmhand gets jumped by goblins" it's "Literally Iron Man gets jumped by goblins." You're supposed to lose a dozen 1st level characters until one gets lucky.
Then 5e did it even more and everyone hated it. Everyone just pretended it to like it because they couldn't leave their house for 2 years and got stockholm syndrome.
@@acrab6527 None of the level 1 PC classes in previous editions were "Billy the Farmhand," it's a complete misunderstanding of how the classes are presented.
@@OldIronJohnson every level 1 character is billy the farmhand. You have 6 hp. You're not supposed to even be equal to a town guard until level 4ish.
But 5e makes every level 1 player character already stronger than everyone else on the planet.
@@acrab6527 Didn't know they let retirement home folks play dnd. Ok but seriously, it shouldn't be hard for you to understand that different games have different premises and baseline understandings right?
Just because 1e or 2e were like that doesn't mean literally anything to the other editions. Your worldview is just wrong. You are not SUPPOSED to lose a bunch of 1st level characters until one gets lucky in other editions unless the DM shifts gears into that and works the system towards that. Get real man.
The one shot dlc pic was a reference to a few of the dlc's for Dragon Age Origins. The story and dialogue in the game is amazing and each race has 1 or 2 unique starts that can come up later in the game. Similar games you might enjoy are Pillars of Eternity 1 and 2, strongly recommend getting both games to understand the story and lore as 2 is a direct sequel and you can import your character from the first game to the second. The only major difference is that 2 allows multi classing with 2 classes. The story and characters are interesting, there's no alignment system exactly other than your companions may or may not be ok with your choices
Pathfinder is it's own thing. It's made by a different company and really in direct competition with DnD. It means that while it's DnD 3.5 and a lot of races carry over, it also means that the lore is pretty different. Like there is a techno barbarian region with androids and chainswords. Really Pathfinder is more of a rip-off of DnD 3.5 but it's a damn good one made by ppl that got the game. Pathfinder has kind of become a DnD refuge home in a lot of ways. When WotC does something dumb enough to make people leave, they tend to end up in Pathfinder.
Honestly when he was talking about the last dungeon, it does throw swarms of enemies at you but it's swarms of hyper lethal enemies that have to be delt with in very specific ways or you'll probably either take a ton of damage or lose outright. Which is very draining when doing that for hours. Like that swarm room. Yeah, looks like nothing but I'm scared of that room too. 😨 Still, it's an amazing game. I think Wrath blows it out of the water but still very worth it doing a play through.
I beat this game recently.
I HATE the fey now... mostly. Blind Fight is mandatory. Cheese can be discovered if you're patient. Murderhobo as much as you can, I didn't get max level until the last 5 minutes of the game 😢
I only put 120 hours into kingmaker, because I randomly got the secret ending by blind luck the first time I played.
Now wrath of the Righteous, I've got 600+ hours in. Just changing your mythic path changes 30-50% of the game. So I've done 5 whole playthroughs and have only seen half of them. And even if you make your party members different classes each time, there's 300 classes.
kotors evil aliggnemt issue comes from creative conflict not making easeir many legenfds writers want to write sith as more complex and play with the passion of dark side vs stoicism of the jedi while geaorge lucus wanted more traditional good vs evil religous crap which causes conflict in creative direction for starwars rpgs
Having played both Kingmaker and Rogue Trader, yes the companion sistem in RT is better than in Kingmaker. Kingmaker I believe was Owlcat first game and it shows the foundation of their next games is there but still weaker than their newer games.
Looking at this video and having played WotR I can tell you it has certainly improved a lot upon Kingmaker's flaws.
You still get different routes, a building/management system and plenty of classes to try.
A lot of quality of life stuff was added from the beggining and I can tell you the companions are very fun to have around, though I believe you can still kick them with a single button.
Overall the game will very easily take away hours upon hours of your life, there is a lot of stuff to enjoy and explore.
4e hated on way too much mostly because it was trying to lean into the tactical combat
Really every edition after AD&D 1e has been a massive mistake
Agree with the first, hard disagree on the 2nd, have fun.
nah 3.5 was perfect, everything else was downhill from there.
AD&D was a dungeon crawler. The plot was, "you're in a dungeon."
Wasn't until 3.5 that they had mechanics for non fight, non dungeon stuff, and that was where it was perfected.
4e wasn't "tactical combat" it was "every part that isn't combat doesn't matter or have rules."
@@acrab6527 Use Rope skill.
6:02 Mono-classing is perfectly fine and optimal in some cases. Though something to point out. Dipping just one point into another class can drastically change a playstyle. For instance taking one point of rogue for better critical, dip brawler for better maneuverability or take a druid lever for a free pet that grows with your characters. In Wrath of the Righteous some pets even become mounts as they level up.
9:35 It's been a few years, but I believe you can hide your helmet. However I don't think you can do anything about the armour. However their outfits do look good as you saw from MandaloreGaming's video.
14:30 Yes it wasn't built around it, but it is still a fun way to play. The sequel came out with the two options form the start. So its better integrated.
15:40 Not sure if you were asking what the creature was or a murder hobo. Well not going to spoil the former, but the latter is a type of DND player group that are mainly in it for the combat. Using brute force to solve any issue. Even if that issue is boredom. 'Violence isn't the answer. Violence is a question, and the answer is "yes." '
17:57 Something he doesn't point out is there can be ways to beat those higher level areas and thus you get XP and items earlier if you can manage to do it.
28:22 One thing that is a little annoying about the Kingdom Management aspect is that you can't directly make gold from it through Taxation or anything. It's incidental profile like selling Artisan items.
40:30 Mileage kind of varies when it comes to the ending. I don't like it for certain story reasons, but if you're a combat focused player it can be a fun challenge for the team you've spent the whole game crafting.
Part of the issue with Swarms is that they didn't have all the options to deal with them initially. Swarms are actually pretty trivial to kill but when it first came out, you couldn't use torches to attack them like you can in PnP.
they eventually added the ability to use torches and certain weapons to do so (flaming, flaming burst, effects with similar properties etc), which substantially reduced the difficulty (and you start with like 2 torches now, so you have have two to equip on melee characters to fight them with). Also kinectists can absolutely obliterate them as all of their blasts have concussive pressure involved which rips swarms apart.
(though torches are a little unintuitive as you need to use the special attack action they unlock while equipped to make touch-attacks against the swarm, since you can't target them with physical attacks directly unless your weapon has an effect that can harm swarms).
Honestly, if you play this game, I wouldn't be mad if you spend a stream or two just playing the starting areas and re-roll the character. That's normal. Heck, I already lost count the number of times I restarted because of some minute detail I want to remake.
Of course, there are mods around that let you do all of that as well.
i like seeing people react to the pathfinder games. They are some of my favorite crpgs of all times.....and i've been playing crpgs for more then 20 years now. Its always nice seeing others share your passions
43:57 that is from Dragon Age: Origins. Really good game, but the sequels went to hell fast. All the DLC is pretty cool for it.
inacurate on 4th edition 4th was more video gamy not lower qoulity just more ruly more game like rules think all the rtules in somthing like xcom flanking cover that sort stuff
The final area isn't all that bad, i just stocked up on as many Freedom of Movement items/Scrolls as i could
the compony that makes kingmaker also made rogue trader a40k game and wrath of rightous with same lore codex
kingmaker is a module in pathfinder u can buy that has rules for kingdom runnimng
swarms use fireball spam aoe attacks they are only type attack thats likely hiot a swarm
Pog im so glad to see this reaction, pathfinder games are fantastic
I get a bit of choice paralysis on Fallout New Vegas... this would drive me nuts, but I would oddly like that.
Then keep playing it until you took ALL the choices!
Shoutout to my favourite class, the Kineticist. You can basically make your character into a Bender from Avatar.
it's basically an elemental warlock with some bolted on psionic junk.
They are pretty fun though, but i do wish they'd included Wood, Void, and Aether elements as well. Earth, Fire, Water, and Air are ok but I prefer the other 3. Though I could see how implementing Aether could be tricky as it's heavily based around telekinesis (though it has my favorite defensive mode out of all the elements).
I've heard horror stories about 4e. It's all hearsay from my end but my friend has told me of horribly long CD's on everything other than normal attacks and the big killer was this took place during the spellplague I think, so spells/spellcasters were either nonexistent or buried 20 feet underground in terms of usefulness.
It's not bad. 6.5/10 game. The only real issue is that you often have to track multiple CDs over one combat, this is where the MMO thing came from. Also no idea where the "Spellcasters are bad in 4e" came from, they're still good. It's also a very well balanced edition, with each class maintaining usefulness more or less equally as you get to higher levels.
If your friend is a 3.5 player, that may explain his spellcaster opinion because that's the edition where a druid was basically 2 characters and fighters were lame as hell. (comparitively.)
OVERALL THOUGH: I think if you wanted the good stuff from 4e, but not it's jank that comes from WotC, just play Pathfinder 2nd.
They designed 4 e to be used with video games. Then they didn't make any
Yeeees more
I remember when I thought you were Mandalor’s little brother! Lol