Why Sonic is BAD in Brawl, and how he became AMAZING in Project M
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- Опубліковано 4 жов 2024
- Here's how Sonic changed from Super Smash Bros Brawl and Project M/Project Plus.
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how can I play project M? i'm only hearing about it now.. I WANNA PLAY IT DOOD
There's this game called Rivals of Aether, it has a steam workshop and someone also did a good recreation of sonic there you should check it out
I have question Smash ultimate online what if Sonic player are use LAN adapter
@@thetastypug27me too this was my first time hearing of PM infact i started playing PM because of this video
I remember in my senior year of highschool, some friends and I would go to the Smash Club on campus every now and then. There was one guy there who was truly the embodiment of Sonic. If you were close to the ledge and DI-ing to center stage, he would purposefully dash away from you mid-comb to teeter cancel a taunt and then continue the combo as though nothing happened. The mental damage it did to his opponents to hear Sonic say "You're too slow!" or "C'mon! Step it up" as he was kicking their ass was truly immense. It was marvelous to watch. Durge, if you're out there, I hope you're still rocking, doing whatever you're doing.
What a chad
My goat
Actually built different
Until he went 5 8 to a ness aka me in ultimate online by the it was 21 games I just put 5 8 it was actually 8 to 13 so that was funny considering he actually seemed to have spirits on and hacked his switch and I still beat him
He had the super sonic spirit on he didn't do alot more but one f smash 180 percent so unless sonic does 100 percent with that
One day I'm hoping Sakurai will update Sonic's move sets in the next Smash title whenever that is. Sakurai said he's getting Sonic Frontiers which is coming out next month and I would love to see some of Sonic's attacks from Frontiers be put into Smash
Same
Didn't Sakurai say that ultimate is the last smash game he is participating in.
@@gadaddo4794 he's said that multiple times before
@unfloofy archive which is NOT an archive Nintendo ain't going to quit cause money and Sakurai says he doesn't trust anyone else with the series.
You do the math
@unfloofy archive which is NOT an archive if he doesn't trust anyone else to do it right then he'll be back. He said the last two smash games were his last as well.
Wow, Sakurai made Sonic so accurate, that he even can annoy his opponents. Just like in the source material.
Even captured the accuracy of the many ball moves he uses in his games, having his core series moves his most used
@@theARDISAN I know right?!
@@theARDISAN I guess there goes the 1-button use like in Sonic 1
YES THE VIDEO I WAS WAITING FOR. Sonic in PM is literally what Sonic was always supposed to be. He’s supposed to track you down, and rush you before you even know what happened. A lot of clips of him in P+ are flashy as hell in his combos. Thanks for this video, Honest!
Glad you liked it!
This is how the character is *"supposed to be"*
..... Okay there mister game developer! Lmao get real mate
@@DANCERcow it’s a more accurate version of the character, and he’s actually fun to play and fight. You get real, mate.
@@burningsexuality1540Not really fight, but play yea
I remember the first time I unlocked Sonic in Brawl. Well, my brother was playing the game and I rushed out of bed as soon as I heard that he was fighting him.
Edit: I missed how expressive Sonic was back in Brawl and that his head quills were longer and wiggled when he moved.
PM/P+ Sonic also got some RIDICULOUS buffs that were not mentioned in this video...
-He, the fastest thing alive has a dash attack which comes out at *FRAME TWO*
-Also in P+ his up smash has a faster startup (frame 13) that allows him to perform Gatling Combo
-Both Spin Charge and Spin Dash can be canceled by pressing the shield button, while in official games nothing happens
-Combined with dash dance, wavedash, and moonwalk he can be a super campy fighter just like him in S4 and Ultimate
Bless the Project M Team for doing Sonic tons of Justice and giving him the love he deserves, Whether or not Sakurai directs the next Smash Game I hope he plays enough of Sonic Frontiers to get more inspiration for improving upon Sonic’s Rushed Brawl Moveset.
We can’t lie though Sonic had some of the best taunts in Brawl just because of his old voice actor Jason Griffith.
Maybe
@RooByrne like, not reusing voicelines? And ur talking about sm4sh and ultimate right?
It feels as if Nintendo made Banjo and Sonic poorly on purpose.
Sonic was super rushed in Brawl
@@coolguywannabe6783 They had two more games after to do new stuff and they didn't, glad we have Project M/+
There is nothing wrong with Banjo though
@@SteelTiamat compared to the other DLC he feels boring, uninspired even. That's my opinion ofc.
@@Rough_Estimates He is not uninspired. Almost all of his moves are references to Banjo Kazooie and Tooie. He is one of the most faithful characters. Whether that translates to being a great character performance wise is another story, but he doesn't have it that bad.
Dude i love these videos.
Whenever I look at older pm moveset comparisons they're never as informative as I wanted
Love the way you explain it all in detail from the frames to his history to the strengths to his weaknesses in this video.
My biggest hope for the next Smash game is that Sonic's move set is going to be changed to fit Sonic Frontiers.
I do miss his Run Speed, he used to run with the FZero cars and now he gets ran over 🥲 And Your too slow was his best taunt shoulda kept it.
I think that’s because the old Sonic voice left after Brawl
@@paulgilbert5278 Um you can just have the person you are paying to say those words
Uh yeah, but it won’t hit the same.
@@TheReZisTLust they couldn’t get roger craig smith to do new lines for smash 4 or ultimate since Nintendo doesn’t like to work with unionized voice actors so they just used voice lines from past games instead of making new ones.
@@paulgilbert5278 it was still a in style taunt for sonic.
I think one addition is to make some of his abilities require startups but come out almost unreactably fast and deal good damage.
My brother, you deserve so much more subscribers, your content is outstanding and incredibly well documented! Godspeed
One of my oldest memories of competitive PM was a video that played Drake's "You Fancy, Huh?" as various sonic players moonwalked behind their opponents. It was pretty fun and tragically I think it's been taken down off of youtube since the last time I saw the video
Was waiting for this one the most. Sonic had so much cool stuff to pull from before brawl and even if rushed he could have taken moves like ZSS up air and such moves like that that would fit his style more. ITs a real crime sonic never got a rework in 4 and ultimate. Thankfully PM/+, and HDR exists because without these i would never get to play my favorite company mascot.
It kinda makes sense that Sonic is a “Hit & Run” type of Smash Character because that’s how all his games are.
Hit and dodge it you’ll lose your rings
Love these videos. Not only do they teach me new things and give insight on Brawl of which I had not known of. Which is one of my top 3 favourite games of all time. But it also teaches me a bit of history behind the development of PM and the game design philosophy behind PM/P+. I especially appreciate these videos because I wasn’t around/too young to participate in the PM community back in the day and they teach me a lot about my favourite mod/competitive fighting game. I love what you do HC.
Thank you, that means a lot. I put my heart and soul in these videos, so thanks.
Project M Sonic is the sickest character in any video game
I wish Sega would make another Sonic fighting game. I really enjoyed Sonic Battle and would love to see a follow up.
Sonic’s hasn’t even had many spinoffs lately like he used to, with only Team Sonic Racing being the only one of note
Sonic: Are you calling my move set horrible
If sakurai does decide to do another smash game I'm praying sonic gets completely revamped into his frontiers style. That moveset would be ridiculous lmao. Hope he gets better alt outfits too like his sa2 gear (bounce bracelet, soap shoes etc) Excalibur armor, even his riders gear or classic shoes.
And how he became the best Sonic ever in Crusade.
Not sure why i spent 11 minutes watching a video about a videogame i don't know and wouldn't play ever, but i can't say it wasn't good content. I enjoyed it
This is the best looking Sonic has ever been in Smash and ever played. Oh and also I got a few ideas on table. Sonic can actually throw projectiles. He can do the Sonic Wind which can be a good reference to Sonic Adventure 2 Battle. No so you can combine the dive kick combined with the bounce attack with the bounce bracelet which can do pretty good damage, combos, and get people off the stage to well trying to save yourself up with spring once you hit contact with your opponents off the stage downwards. And also I think another good move is a lightspeed attack. Basically he curls up and begins charging. And after he's done and when the player let's go the button once done charging he'll fly towards his opponents in a zigzagging motion until the player cancels or the energy runs out. And also I think he induce Chaos Control combined with Smash when he turns into Super Sonic. Basically everyone is slowing down or stopped in time things to Chaos Control and Super Sonic can just bust right through them either ranking up damage or gets the opponents knocked out. Another good move is the blue tornado from Sonic Heroes and Sonic Rush. Great to make opponents get their feet swept up and perfect to do ariel attacks. Another move is a super peel out where's Sonic actually runs on the opponents which will be funny. Now the really funny reference would be the Magic Hands from Sonic Adventure 2 Battle where he captures an enemy and throws it to another enemy. So Sonic could encapsule a opponents and throws it to another opponent to damage but once thrown the person Sonic in capsules will break out as soon as he throws it to someone else. Either that or Sonic just throws the opponent of the stage. I know this move sounds OP so I'm making a catch to this. But if Sonic or the player doesn't make a choice then the capsule will break out and the opponents comes out and could attack Sonic. And so the player must make a choice. But here's my suggestions of what Sonic should have for references to the previous games.
Sonic translates to the PM engine super well, love all the new moves they gave him as well.
Yeah out of all the 3rd party characters Sonic got the least amount of love. Like he's top tier in ultimate but he's kinda boring to play sometimes. He doesn't really have the any personality in the game.
Which is ridiculous cuz he's the guy with probably the most personality on the whole roster. The homing attack poses are a great touch in showing that he's a bit of a showoff.
Sonics implementation into brawl felt as rushed and poorly thought out as his games were at the time. Sakurai was pretty accurate to his roots. If only sega accepted the deal. Earlier
LMAO
I wanna disagree but Brawl was Pre-Unleashed.
Heroes, Shadow, *2006*, & Secret Rings were very rushed.
Heroes had an idea but needed more time. Secret Rings needed better controls (Black Knight fixed that issue), I never played Shadow, and 06 needed to be cancelled
@@CosmicSponge2004 06’s release could have just been delayed a year and it would have been exponentially better
@@kone7549 That might've helped bugs in Gameplay but nothing else
I loved playing as Sonic in Brawl.
So you're telling me, Sonic had a rough transition to Smash Bros
I think Sonic's hit-and-run style is intentional. Just like how Little Mac is supposed to be a quick, defensive, but powerful fighter.
I was in the womb when I saw the sonic trailer for brawl it was fire fr 🥵
5:41 oh woah, it's me!
Excellent video, you really covered the history of PM sonic without the bias that ultimate and smash 4 tend to give. Some people still tend to view PM sonic as campy, but he plays more like a spin centric Captain Falcon than anything else. Back in early 3.6, sonic was 29th in the tier list, and people viewed him as too underpowered to succeed at the top level. All of us PM sonic players spent a lot of time exploring what PM added to sonic, and the discoveries we made changed everything. So much so that at the end of 3.6, most people considered sonic to be a top 5 character. Discoveries by Shockbound and the rest of Sonic Discord helped tremendously, but the real success came from our communities will to continue to explore and optimize our favorite character, regardless of how good he seemed at the time. Thanks for showing the world how cool sonic can be 🌀
Fantastic content, but as someone who spent years working on personal variations of PM I found that PM implements a lot of new code but doesn't replace the engine. As much as it is a handful of tweaks to the existing engine. Those tweaks are still huge, PMEX uses a partial engine for clones but that's just tacked on to the modified brawl engine that PM uses
Thank you so much for making this vid personally I'm a sonic main since brawl while ultimate sonic could have had work done after his top placing in 4, I'll always love pm sonic even tho I'm not too good at it lol
Imagine if project m 2.5 sonic was in project m 3.0 than it would be in the big 5 with mewtwo, pit, diddy kong, and lucas
Me personally, I’d make his side b his boost from Sonic Unleashed onward.
The mod he is using for the video is Project m ex remix.
In fairness to normal Smash Sonic, I've always viewed how he was portrayed in the normal Smash games to be accurate. Yeah a lot of his moves are him in a ball, but it's his main method of attack is him in a ball. Plus the stereotypical playstyle of Sonic mains is even accurate in a way, with him zipping in, being agile and slippery making him hard to hit, and annoying the hell out of his opponent in the process, fits his character and his usual fight tactics.
Project M Sonic still is better though don't get me wrong lmao
"Sonic is really fast, no duh. That's like calling water wet..."
*so you're saying it's extremely debatable whether or not Sonic is really fast*
1:05 missed chance for Marss 33rd meme
Am I the only person who feels weird hearing all this melee type jargon but then its for sonic the hedgehog?
I feel like Smash Remix deserves a honorable mention on how to properly make translate the blue hedgehog in a Smash game, in that mod Sonic aesthetically based of Sonic Adventure 1 (which conveniently came out in the same year as SSB64) and the Genesis games, with SA1 and Classic Sonic costumes, his moveset takes cues from PM and Sonic Battle with the same fair and utilt, his dair is now similar to Yoshi doing a running animation in the air like how he runs in the air in the genesis games, and the best part is that only rolls up in ball for two moves: Homing Attack and Spin Dash, everything, his taunts and victory animations are based directly from Sonic games and he even has a Super Sonic form to mess around for fun.
It's amazing how they made Sonic a character in a Smash 64 romhack despite all the limitations and along with PM outs to shame the official Smash Sonic in terms of faithfulness and references.
When i was younger, i only played Brawl, BECAUSE Sonic was in it. I still main him in all official Smash Bros games. Im glad he got improved so much for PM and Plus, makes me feel glad I main him for all this time.
sonic strongest attacks : legs
marios strongest attacks : punchs
Project M sonic to smash sonic: You're comparing yourself to me? HA! You're not even good enough to be my fake.
Smash Sonic: I'LL MAKE YOU EAT THOSE WORDS!
Woah WOAH you can’t just go saying that… water is wet that’s trying to start a war
So when can you talk about Shin Godzilla in Project M?
I really really really wish the kept "You're too slow" and "Come on step it up" in Ultimate. It just isn't the same and Sonic feels flat without it.
When I first got brawl I didn't know every character was from their own video game so I just thought everyone was from smash
I’ve never agreed with sonic as a hit and run, I’ve always seen him as more a rush down like fox and falco, minus the ranged options. He would be balanced by his light weight and low kill power. I’d imagine instead of trying to get someone off of the stage, he’d force someone close to the blast zone and air boost back to the stage
I’m not sure about “bad”. Maybe underwhelming but there’s worse characters.
too be fair, if you aren't Meta Knight or at least a high tier in Brawl. You could be considered pretty bad. the difference between top tiers and low tiers in Brawl is even more stark than melee.
Common honest content W
Down smash and down tilt are both from Sonic 06 (green gem and spin kick respectively), which I think is a really neat reference to sonic at the time
These vids just keep on improving; nice work, man.
Its been 3 games and Sakurai even played sonic frontiers so I think we can finally have something
I honestly loved playing Sonic in Brawl, especially against Marth.
Up smash honestly should be a one hit move and look like the bounce, that just makes more sense, please, if we ever see smash again with him, change it Nintendo. You guys could give Luigi a plunger and Ganon a sword, give sonic some love. Also go back to brawls dash, or give him the slide, but if you go back, make it capable of gaining momentum on ramps, that just sounds like a fun but goofy option.
I feel like this video should be on Nintendos radar this will get Nintendo to change his moveset and Make him better for once.
Awesome video man hopefully someday Nintendo and Sakura might Change his moveset after frontiers releases.
This is what sonic should have been and even tho I don’t care about his moveset I think it’s good
I really hope that Nintendo change’s
another banger from the GOAT... how does he keep doing it
I mean he literally was a last minute character. But two games following, they never changed anything?
When you look at other characters like Kazuya, Mario or even Sora. Sonic doesn’t feel like….Sonic.
Unlike other games and project M. Sonic feels more represented.
This is coming from a person whose grown up with Mario and SONIC
Hello just came here to say congrats on 6k dont really play smash anymore (mostly play tekken 7 ) and if you dont remember me i used to always youre live streams
I remember, hope you doing well!
this video editing is so crazy good
I am a sonic main in smash ultimate and my friends and my brother criticize me for playing him so it hope he gets a new moveset
You should also say good in smash 4 and ultimate
great video, but i think the music in the background is too loud
I love Sonic
"many thought this character was a last minute edition" iirc he quite litterally was because nintendo asked sega for sonic in smash to which sega turned them down only to right before release see how much hype was behind the game and asked for sonic to be added which is also why he shows up just at the end of subspace and caused the gane to be delayed from its start date. ofc i could be entirely wrong but i remember seeing this somewhere a while back
he made Brawl delayed for the 2nd time
The Subspace Emmasary delayed it from 2006 to 2007, and then Sonic delayed it further from 2007 to early 2008
@@goGothitaLOL alright so im not speaking from a fever dream and this is a thing, good to know lmao
Let's be honest, we all knew sonic was gonna be in the game 😂
I once tried to find out EXACTLY how many viable characters there really is in Brawl & yes Sonic I don't think is viable in Brawl BUT He's not a BAD character just a decent character because apparently he got 5th at MLG Dallas 2010 & 3rd at Glitch 2
Bad is kind of an overstatement
I think he means Bad as in, Sonic's moveset is pretty uninspired in Brawl. Kinda is lazy when you look at it if you ask me
@@sbsb7352 Sonic was pretty weak in Brawl, but he got better in Ultimate. I think the reason for his moves looking very simple, is to prevent him from being overpowered, due to how fast he is. Sonic can be played in an aggressive way but that's very hard to due.
@@sbsb7352 It's both. His attacks were very weak in Brawl and had a lot of similar moves. He would be drastically buffed in Smash 4.
@@orangeslash1667 ...You do realize that Project M...
1. Made him even FASTER
And 2. Gave him moves from Sonic Battle (and his B move from the Sonic Advance games)
And yet he's not broken in the current version of P+, in fact, he's not even S tier.
I honestly like a lot more Sonic being physically weak, instead of him excelling at camping and having no big weaknesses in Smash 4 and Ultimate. That way he’d be more balanced and less hated.
Not only would that be inaccurate to his character, but he’d just be an outright bad character if nothing had changed as of Brawl. I think Sonic is just fine the way he is currently, as a rushdown semi-glass cannon.
I know this is going to sound stupid but does anyone know where I can get a green screen map for Smash bro brawl?
The PM team did an incredible job with him
As a sonic main in brawl smash 4 and ultimate i do admit hes anoying to deal with
But fun fact!: the reason why sonic has so many spin dash attacks is beacuse sakurai wanted to use classic sonic due to him spindashing alot in his games but sega said nah man use the newer and way more cooler modern design
But lets just hope sakurai uses the combo moves we see in frontiers
sonic could of had a cool moveset in smash 4 and ultimate like boost sonic wind etc
Man I want to play this now and try Sonic out…too bad I don’t have a pc :(
It's safe to say that Sakurai made a missed potential moveset for Sonic.
Talk about done dirty.
It's funny when a mod like PM/P+ does better than Melee, Brawl, Smash 4 and Ultimate.
Could you do a vid for Sonic Duel?
my favorite patch for sonic had to be 3.02
You gonna do a lucario version of this video? he looks sick in PM
I plan to do one on Wolf in the future.
anyone who thought there's no way sonic would be added to smash after the brawl trailer was lying to themselves
0:31 And it doesn''t help that he copies some animations from other fighters, with the most famous example being how his up tilt is identical to Captain Falcon's up smash
Kinda surprised that project M didn’t think of the boost for the side b
I have question Smash ultimate online what if Sonic player are use LAN adapter
Hey so I was watching and just a quick question during Sonic’s side taunt…. What on earth is he saying?
“Let’s ride!” I think
I am in like smth like tournament and I almost win, with just a day of experience, using sonic.
Anyone remembers launch day smash 3ds sonic? Good timed
Chaos Angel stage?? It's not in Project+EX Remix soooo custom download I assume?
Water isn’t wet tho
🤓
is project m a smash mod or is it its own game?
Bro i gotta play project m it looks amazing are you gonna make a video about how to install project m just an idea🤷♂️
Bro just Google it 🤣
@@ZachHonesti figured it out man i love it. I havent played melee much so i gotta get use to the buffer but just amazing game in general project remix
wow, what do you use to edit your videos?
The most disappointing thing I have with the devs is that I'm pretty sure everyone complained about his design ever since Brawl.
Though Sonic was too niche for them to exactly hear it, but then when Ultimate came out and quarantine happened. It was still like the devs never BOTHERED listen to them. They had so many years to give him a far cooler moveset. But 2020 was the biggest one and they didn't even bother buffing or nerfing their movesets.
It really does suck because back when I played Smash. He was a guilty pleasure character
I hope P+ gets rollback like Melee someday
I Like Sonic In Smash!. IDC It Sonic's Moveset In Smash Is The Same, But His Dash Attack Is Change!. So That's Why Sonic Is F*****g Top Tier In Smash. Oh BTW, I Never Played
SSBPM, I Played SSBB,SSB4, & SSBU!!!!!!!
How you do the effects of green screen
I wouldn't call Brawl Sonic Bad but after playing Project+, I can't really go back.
Kinda like tge opposite of Pit. Where Every Game after Brawl (Including PM & P+) Ruin him completely
They gave him an actual moveset