I didn't hear the first couple of presenters mention the 1) smoke point of seed oils compared with olive oil, coconut oil, or lard and beef/lamb dripping. 2) nutrient properties of animal or olive/coconut oil, and seed oils 3) propensity to become rancid at room temperature, shelf life, preservative value to food, etc. We have generations of ancestors who used lard & dripping for its properties of stability and reliability without refrigeration. I cook with a combination of olive oil, butter and if cooking steak, some lard/dripping. Butter gives a delicious flavour and I find that it triggers the lovely sensation of satiety, which is a gift from God for its feeling of wellbeing. It's part of healthy self-nurture.
Where to start? Dr Weiss. I am sure he is smart, but he is clearly too young. I remember when canola oil hit the shelves and was touted as the healthiest thing you could do for your family. My mother who cooked everything from scratch for our health stopped buying the tins of olive oil and bought the plastic gallons of canola oil and she used it in everything. We were all normal weight with no aches and pains. Fast forward ten years, we all were struggling with our weight and had no success slimming down no matter what we did. I thought i just had no will power, but i could succeed in other areas of my life, just not my weight, Again, mom was still cooking from scratch as this was still before processed foods were common, and what also started was the arthritis. My mom had it terribly, then my dad then myself. We had no idea about seed oils possibly being unhealthy, but as I look back, I can see the impact on our all lives. I accidentally stumbled into low carb and avoiding seed oils. I had no idea the reason my legs were so painful I could barely walk was the seed oils, but when I stopped them, in just a few days I saw reduced pain. Now I am a different person, down 70 pounds with no pain whatsoever. Dr, Weiss is do what I say, not what I do. I feel sorry for his patients who will need his help with all the inflammation and suffering they shall have if they continue with seed oils.
Dr Weiss says that we don't really get that much seed oil - putting it in the pan or on your salad. All very well for the health conscious. But virtually ALL the processed foods contain seed oils and all the deep fried food uses seed oils. Most of the population actually eat a heck of a lot of seed oils.
Two thirds of SAD calories come from processed fats and sugar/processed wheat. And almost all fat comes from PUFA oil. Yet he says he doesn't know anyone who has a significant intake of PUFA oils.
Seems like he's just out of touch with what regular people end up buying at the grocery store. All below top tier salad dressings, mayonnaises, sauces, crackers, chips, fried food, desserts, breads even, the list goes on and on, have a ridiculously high amount of vegetable and seed oils
I also noticed that he didn't really seem to understand all the different "foods" that contain seed oils. Actually, he made me think that he was pretty uninformed on this subject.
So Dr Weiss tells his patients to stay away from processed foods, sugars and refined grains. But not concerned about processed oils. These oils are in processed foods. His message is on shaky ground.
Well, if you stay away from processed foods, you are automatically staying away from the hyper processed oils! I see no omission or contradiction here. If you avoid processed foods, then you're likely to be the kind of person who does make their own salad dressings and makes healthy choices.
@@lgolem09lKeep the water, subtract the seed oils. The former falls from the sky, and the latter is extracted in factories that resemble oil refineries.
His comment that it isn’t like people are poring vegetable oil all over their salads…… Jeeeesssshhh. Yes they are - soybean oil is the first ingredient in most salad dressings and they throw fructose on the salad fire to boot. Wow, we have an enormous food and health mess underfoot don’t we?
Dr. Weiss is wrong about seed oils and offered little in the way of evidence to show that increased consumption has not been awful for our health. His example of salad dressings not having that much seed oils is ridiculous. Look at all the commercial salad dressings and they almost always use soybean, canola, safflower oil etc. Dr. Scher should never be rude to a guest but some pushback is warranted rather than just nodding your head and smiling like this all makes perfect sense.
Indeed, people need to wake up and realize that the best study has already happened, lol. We actually already performed the experiment, it just happened to be one that NOONE gave their conscious consent. Scarily, the experiment remains ongoing...
I respectfully disagree with doctor Weiss. Vegetable oils are everywhere. Especially if you stick with standard diet. Potato/corn chips baked goods, canned seafood (in many cases), salad dressings etc. all contain vegetable oils. So even if you cook at home with "healthy" saturated and mono-unsaturated if you consume processed foods you will consume a lot of vegetable oils.
I agree, irrespective of whether it's healthy or unhealthy it is absolutely everywhere, especially in processed foods. If it used to contain butter it now contains vegetable fats ( biscuits, cookies, baked goods etc.), if it used to contain olive oil, it now mostly contains cheaper vegetable oils (pesto, vegetables or fish preserved in oil). Of course processed foods are generally a bad choice, but where it annoys me most is when i want to buy things like canned fish, olives, pesto, sundried tomatoes etc. They mostly contain sunflower oil, rapeseed oil or unspecified vegetable oil. And secondly it bothers me that restaurants nearly always use the cheapest vegetable oils available for all their cooking. I live in Ireland and maybe it is worse here than in other places.
Here's the problem: invited to my Parisian gourmet chef friend's house or her professional chef brother's house for dinner. E.V.E.R.Y.T.H.I.N.G will be fresh and homemade BUT they will use vegetable oil to cook meat dishes with. Unless you cut off contact with people, you are going to be exposed to seed oils. Even the top chefs and restaurants that source everything within 15 minutes walking distance and know the name of every chicken they serve are still using seed oils.
@@sarahrosen4985 yep. I see UA-cam cooks preparing high-grade Wagyu beef - with canola oil. They’ve been overwhelmed with VEGETABLE OIL IS GOOD FOR YOU propaganda. It’s as if they can’t help it.
Dr. Weiss says not to eat processed food, then says it's just fine to eat seed oils which are heavily processed. The olive and avocado oil he uses is processed minimally. I think he subconsciously doesn't like seed oils.
Guest 1: Admits he doesn't know what the hell he's talking about. Guest 2: Talking out of her ass completely discounting how "vegetable" oils are processed and throw off your Omega 6:3 ratio. Would love to know where her income comes from.
You must really hate everyone on Diet Doctor, based on what they say and where their income comes from. Right? Guest 2 can be debunked, if necessary, by what she says and how she substantiates her positions. Not by who she works for or by disparaging her motivations, even if her biases do happen to work against her own interests or the public. FWIW, the same applies to the Diet Doctors.... The comment about Guest 1 was pretty funny, though.
This dietican lady really lives in a fantasy land. She is really in the pocket of the oil industry. As a person with migraines and Fibromyalgia, getting seed oils and most nuts out of my diet has been a health game changer.
As a chronic migraineur, I've found that nuts, legumes, and bananas trigger attacks. Seeds and seed oils (minimal intake) don't. Both of my sisters, also chronic migraineurs, can eat any amount of nuts, legumes, and bananas. My sister-in-law gets migraines from red meat. It's always a mistake to extrapolate one's personal experience to the world population.
@@SuzanneU I dont think its red meat at all. See what other confounding factors could play a role and see if shes eating any type of processing or super market meat. Grass fed and finished probably wont give her any bad reactions.
Yeah I could tell. She probably secretly represents industries heavily invested in seed oils. It's evident that long term, high consumption of these seeds tends to always lead to negative health outcomes in humans. Seed oils build up in your fat cells and take years of accumulation to really see a bad effect, that said, seed oils (Oxidized omega 6 linoleic acid) has a half life of about 680 days. You're looking at years of turn over rate of seed oils in your fatty tissues. The thing is when you lose weight, those seed oils are actually re-released in your body and causes temporary inflammation. So best bet is to eliminate ALL Seed oils, lose weight and in years time you will slowly start to feel better with your omega 6 to omega 3 ratio's once again in a humanely acceptable range of about 1 to 2 percent
@@RandomHuTaoSimpThis is the best comment I've read regarding seed oils in some time. Yes, spot on man! I boycotted seed oils and reversed a rare disease called eosinophilic esophagitis which has no medically recognized cure, lol. Subtract the seed oils before they subtract you friends, they were made to lubricate machinery and not mankind. Doctors used to also promote cigarette smoking. Wake up guys, WAKE UP.
I think people interview him only because he works fo out Virta Health and he's a cardiologist. Every interview with him is annoying. He ducks and weaves around questions.
I perceive the key driver for consuming vegetable oils to be commercial interests. However, the oils are promoted as “healthy” as that is the message the public will currently buy into. Trials and research funded by commercial interests will clearly seek to promote them in that way. That they are a money-saving option for people seals the deal. Persuasive messaging is the lifeblood of commercial interests. I have great respect for Ben Bikman and the work he does.
Ben Bikman was the most accurate among your guests. Maybe you can do part 2 of this podcast with Cris Knobbe and Robert Lustig. No mention of the high temperatures of using seed oils in frying foods and continuous reuse of seed oils in fast food restaurants.
Not only in fast-food restaurants, but most "regular" restaurants also reuse their oils. Some might go to the trouble of filtering out the burned bits, but the "cleaned" oil is reused.
@@KenJackson_US Knobbe's talks are what pointed out the "it's excess carbs" paradox, which lead me to investigate Linoleic Acid. After lowering it for 1-3 years, I continued to see new benefits to health, and over time gaining flexibility in my carb intake.
@@KenJackson_US There are multiple factors... A bit to much put into a comment, but here's the Short answer. 1. Mitochondrial dysfunction 2. Inflammation from oxidation and oxidative products. 3. Primary cause of atherosclerosis. 4. Primary cause of cardiovascular disease. 5. Primary cause of diabetes due to effects on mitochondria and insulin resistance. 6. Primary cause of fatty liver. Most of these are linked with Linoleic acid. Others may also play a role, but there's less data to support this. These are signalling molecules. In small amounts we were exposed evolutionarily they're fine, and we can handle the harmful effects, but larger amounts, we can't compensate. I have a playlist full of talks and lectures on Linoleic Acid you might be interested in. I'd also recommend looking at Tucker Goodrich's blog "yelling-stop". He has some great articles. And dogs into research, linking studies to support his stance.
Another thing is that when people consume these seed oils they are usually heated, often to very high temperatures (for frying and deep frying food). Was that taken into account in those studies?
@@TheWoWBane Some of them, but there are cold pressed versions as well wich aren't heated and well they're at least better than the conventional seed oils wich are heavily procceced and heated to insane temperatures.
I only use seed oil for frying, mainly canola oil. I ALWAYS use it for frying. It raises my cholesterol and when I drink too many margaritas and eat too much homemade popcorn made with canola oil, I'm really in trouble.
At an airport restaurant, I wanted eggs and bacon and ended up ordering poached eggs instead of other methods since the waiter told me that they don’t have butter or olive oil.
I had a McD hash brown for the first time in months and retched on it. It was like a canola/soybean oil sponge. I used to eat these things almost every day. I can't imagine ever trying to eat one of them again. I'm not scared of seed/vegetable oils (and will eat the occasional nuts) but I'll definitely be avoiding them whenever possible.
Dr Weiss, yes is talking out of both sides of his mouth. If he doesn't think it's an important topic perhaps he should not be considered as a reference. If he thinks it only matters if you drink gallons of it he should not be considered for anything.
Yeah, I think it's concerning that he seems to think that only chugging it or cooking with it matter. I'd venture a guess that most people's PUFAs don't come from their intentional additions, but rather come in processed foods. It's the same situation as sugar-- you're probably not adding too much sugar to your tea and coffee, you're probably getting it mostly in processed junk like soda. Furthermore, you don't need to chug gallons to make a difference. Some 20% or more by calorie of the modern die comes from these omega 6 PUFAs when formerly we'd have low single digit consumption of all PUFA. Just throwing off the omega 3: omega 6 ratio could be significant. I can understand him being unconvinced by the current data and wanting to focus on other things, but it almost feels like he's ignoring the subject.
Apparently Dr. Weiss and Dr. Guess are completely ignorant of the fact that vegetable seed oils are a highly processed industrial product. Maybe someone should educate them on how these oils are created in factories and the extensive, multi-step process required to make at least a somewhat-appealing oil product.
Dr Weiss says it's a non issue, because why? Vegetable oil occurs in like 90 percent of processed food and he says nobody is "chugging it".... I'm vexed
Comment on first speaker: oils used for consumption are an issue when combined with other processed foods in our daily intake of food. Breakfast? Fry an egg in canola oil? Mid-Morning snack? White bread(has hydrogenated oil in most brands) with Jiff PB (has hydrogenated oil in it) ….I can on . It adds up ….the ingredients in the food we eat. We all have to do our own research. I believe this video was important to share . As far as the first speaker, he made good points. However, we can’t just assume people will make the right decisions. As a healthcare provider it’s a duty to educate patients on overall health. Idk what point I’m trying to make , I’m just in awe of the shrug of shoulders over oil ….”it’s not a big deal” but when you Sum it All up( our intake of foods)….yes oils do make a difference!
I disagree with Dr Weis and his approach. He's awkwardly ignoring the subject and subconsciously knows the seed oils are a problem. The fact he uses olive and avocado oil in his life and can't answer why he doesn't use other oils says it all.
Thanks for posting this! Did not hear ANYTHING that refutes Knobbe or Goodrich or Lustig or even Berg. These oils are marketed to us as the heart healthy choice but no one mentioned the Cholesterol Hypothesis that they are predicated upon. Noakes did an extensive video critiquing this. I respect the panelists but they are not giving definitive answers, sound more like politicians. "Let me be clear...I have always supported better cleaner eating...Cleaner eating is what we should all be seeking in our lives..." At least Bikman's equivocating was understandable because science. As for me, vegetable oils = SATAN. Just like we don't need 200lbs of sugar a year in our diet neither do we need 30%+ of our calories coming from omega 6, linoleic acid polyunsaturated fatty acids. Thanks you, your mileage may vary
Try and find a food at the grocery store that doesn't have industrial oil in it. I can't even believe that his first guest said that he doesn't see people chugging omega six oils! So he doesn't think that they are a problem! OMG
1. Is it a natural whole food that is evolutionarily appropriate? 2. Did this "food" coming to existence primarily as a need to deal with an industrial biproduct? 3. Did the Minnesota and Sydney heart studies demonstrate conclusively that people that replaced saturated fat with seed oils die much earlier? This discussion was interesting but honestly this is kind of a no brainer that we don't need to take the risk of having this as a major source of energy. The burden of proof is showing that it is safe.
_"Evolutionarily"?_ Sorry to drift off topic, but how can anyone _possibly_ still believe all of today's life evolved from a common ancestor in light of the revelations of molecular biology?! Doesn't detailed knowledge of proteins and mitochondria put the lie to that?
It is interesting that even the doctors that say there's nothing wrong with seed oils still choose not to eat them themselves. And whether anyone says they're good or bad, when you look at the chemicals needed to extract and process these oils, do we really want those in our body. I saw a couple suggestions for a part 2. Include Kate Shanahan? Great content! Thanks and blessings!
I eat higher fat on a low carb diet, so the quality of fat matters. When my diet had seed oils in majority, I sunburned easily. Now that they have been removed, I don’t. Strange, but true. This was observed in an interview between Ivor Cummins and Tucker Goodrich.
I also noted the lack of sunburn. Recently spent about 4-5 hours outside, with little pre-exposure. Got a little pink, but nothing uncomfortable. This cleared up the next day. I've also seen benefits to allergies and sinus inflammation. The lowered inflammation and clear sinuses fixed my sleep apnea as well, since I can nose breath when I obstruct. I still have allergies in my eyes though, so use antihistamine eye drops during peak season. Chronic pain and arthritis are also gone. After 3 years of lower Linoleic acid, my asthma is nearly gone.
@@UnsensitiveYou are the man! This needs to be shouted from every mountain and rooftop. A nutritional savant whispered "linoleic acid" into my ear back in 2015. The crazy thing is, I was burdened by allergies, asthma, and a rare disease called eosinophilic esophagitis that nobody, not even the allergist who specializes in it, had answers. My allergist never mentioned these inflammatory oils. Long story short, I now have zero signs or symptoms of these conditions. My esophagus used to be so inflamed that I was left unable to speak and barely able to breathe hundreds of times throughout my late teens and early 20s when food would get lodged inside it. Unreal.
Cutting seed oils has ELIMINATED my migraines AND minor headaches. I don't believe for a second that they're good to eat. Tucker Goodrich talks about going through all the possible factors for the increase in disease across populations around the world in the 20th century and it sounds like a couple of these experts haven't been as thorough somehow.
I only watched the last half hour so far but that sounds crazy if he was like that. There is no person on Earth, never has been or will be, that has learned all they can about everything. Hell, there are always new things to find out even about subjects you know the most about!
Great to get a full range of doctors and researchers on this tooic. I give a lot more credence to those who actually cite serious studies-as Ben Bikman did. Could also include Dr Cate Shanahan in this one-her two books cover this well: Deep Nutrition & The Fatburn Fix.
I noticed there was no mention of taking these seed oils and hydrogenating them. I think it was pretty strongly concluded that hydrogenated oils are bad for all of us.
And for some reason people tend to buy dressings instead of making it. It’s so simple to make and much less waste. In the past anytime I bought any they almost alway ended up in the garbage.
Dr. Weiss: He’s got a point about the seed oil conversation being far down the list for most people (especially if they’re starting out on a new eating plan). However, he would be amazed at how much soybean oil finds its way into common foods (including salad dressings). The definition of a junk might as well be Flour + Sugar + Soybean Oil.
Why consume anything that got into the food supply so relatively recently and quite frankly, out of ignorance? Things like these oils and sugar. Now we know better.
I only eat avocado oil. Once in a great while I might eat olive oil. The only thing cooked I eat are poached eggs. I don't use cooking utensils any longer. Low carb tortilla with tuna for dinner, protein shake with coconut milk for lunch and sometimes a salad and half a grapefruit with stevia is my complete diet. I'm a type 1 diabetic which was onset at age 55 and put me in the hospital in a coma from eating the American diet! The American diet nearly killed me thanks to the FDA! Over 100 million people in the United States are diabetics right now with three times that many undiagnosed. Wake up or you will be awakened the hard way like I was.
At 28:20moment I'm patiently waitin' for my counter advocates. Since I removed vegetable oils 15 years ago (Extra Virgin Olive Oil is an exception in the Mediterranean) my life changed 360, for the better. Btw. Where is Dr. Cate Shanahan, Tucker Goodrich, anyone?
Like Dr. Kalayjian, I get nauseous from seed oils now, too! When I was at a theme park recently the smells from fryers made me really feel ill. Smelled like burning plastic to me.
Wow... Your first two experts represent the problem of Eminence Based Science Expertise. They identify as not knowing and never having thought about it and claim to have devine authority knowledge about it. The audience gets the message that they are not Evidence Based on their expertise but clerics of a Dogma.
I simply know my own personal 50+ year data: when I consume seed oils, my IBS-D is on 🔥 I can’t have a life if I eat them, so I don’t. Do other people do just fine, sure. I also don’t eat most vegetables for the same reason. I can’t do it and be a functional human.
Ditto. Most plant foods with their fiber, fodmap content, and resistant starches, wreak havoc on my digestive system. What an immense relief eating animal-based has given me.
Me too. After years and years of gut problems I’ve gradually refined my diet based on how the food makes me feel. I eat at home, avoid almost all processed foods and eat animal based. My mouth likes vegetables and fruits but my guts get really upset by them.
"there's not problem with seed oils" "I don't eat seeds oils" If you truly believe that seed oils are not a problem, you should save yourself A LOT of money and stop buying avocado oil or olive oil. Furthermore, the vast majority of people eating salads are using canola oil as a dressing.
Canola oil has a reasonable ratio of omega3:6. Avocado and olive oils come primarily from the flesh of the fruit, not the seeds. Olive seed oil is regarded as inferior.
How are the oils extracted from the seeds? any chemicals involved? what is the process to remove the rancid smell? How are these additives received by the body!
I like Dr. Weiss, and can sort of see his point about the dose being the poison. I too have been skeptical of those who seem to think seed oils are the ONLY cause of illness (the truth is always somewhere between the extremes) -- but his statements that confounded me are that he mentioned avoiding processed food and refined carbohydrates. Does he not realize "vegetable" oils are are inherently unnatural and highly processed? Sure he does. I guess his point is purely based on quantity consumed, but those oils appear in nearly everything on grocery store shelves are used routinely in restaurants to cook what would be considered "real" foods. His comment that people don't pour canola oil on their salads is flat wrong if those people use commercial dressings, which almost always are canola- or soybean oil-based. Cook your own real food, and you'll be better off.
Yeah, maybe what he means is people following his advice to eat whole foods are not consuming seed oils in large amounts. But if that's what he meant, it really should have been made more clear.
Another excellent presentation, and I like your summary. You, pointed out that with important caveats, that modest doses of LA is probably of low risk. The most important caveat is wether or not the LA intake is in the presence of obesity and a hyper calorie diet. Bearing in mind the oxidative priority of energy sources: alcohol burned before AA's and sugar which are burned before fats. If all your energy needs are met by the former, then all fat in the diet will be stored irrespective of its type. Then, as well explained by Dr Ted Naiman, over filled fats cells are very inflammed and they spread inflammation to the rest of the body and drive insulin resistance. Then one is entitled to speculate about the potential biochemical toxicity of LA but also all excess of any polyunsaturated fats. When one is in calorie balance, then LA can be burned as fuel. Dr Weiss, like your good self, is looking after real patients with metabolic, obesity and heart problems, and the importance of selective messaging where one does not overload, and one gets the emphasis right ... the 80/20 rule ... the top 2 on a list of factors gives 80% of the results. Lifestyle changes are difficult, especially in a world obsessed with food and alcohol, combined with a thousand voices of arm chair experts with Google degrees. By all means think for yourself, but trust real world practitioners over anecdotalists. Dr Jason Fung is another who comes to mind - treated thousands of real patients, and knows the science what works in practice.
In the 1st minute of Dr. Weiss' talking (7:10 - 8:21), he basically said nothing, by 9:31 we're promised "I'm going to say it directly" ... at 10:45 we get from him "I'm sorta talking out of both sides of my mouth" ... So I recommend you just skip the first 15 minutes
"I don't care about this [seed oil] conversation." 1 nanosecond later: "I only use 2 oils; Olive and Avocado..." At least he had a moment of self-awareness when he acknowledged talking out of both sides of his mouth.
Prior to this, I had only heard a united front among the keto crowd against *"industrial vegetable seed oils."* I'm surprised but pleased to hear a little _equivocation._ Salad dressings were my last source of them until I switched to expensive avocado based salad dressings about a month ago. Now I can enjoy some inexpensive soybean oil dressings again.
Chinese food originally uses both seed oil and animal fat, but the seed oil transitionally is all cold processed which keeps the original taste and smells of the seeds, this is extremely different from current vegetable oil in the market. However, nowadays the big food companies have already changed this tradition, and in China now, only passents in small villages who make cold processed seed oil on their own still use such traditional seed oil.
100 percent correct. And that on top of American food exports to China is why obesity rates are rising so rapidly there. They are going through same exact thing that happened in USA, just about 40 years behind.
I'm not sure how there's any legitimate debate over the harm caused by lifetime ingestion of added linoleic acid at this point. The mechanism studies and randomized controlled trials should have put this to bed years ago. The "blunt" doctor who said the vegetable oil debate doesn't matter cooks with olive and avocado oil and not vegetable oil. He even said he's talking out both sides of his mouth, so he's lying to himself and he knows it. The British doc claiming linoleic acid is tied to better health relied on epidemiological studies, which are garbage for finding causal relationships. I'm not sure why Bret and company pulled their punches on this topic, when the answer is obvious. Maybe they have friends or donors who are pro vegetable oil?
What a compendium! Well done, Dr. Scher. It's maddening that it's apparently impossible at this point in time to gain a full evidence-based understanding of the issue because experts differ so dramatically. Generally, in the carnivore/animal-based/low-carb world, it is taken as given that seed oils are not optimal for health. Many elevate their status to the number one detrimental factor affecting overall health, inflammatory and metabolic conditions, including pre-diabetes and diabetes. Major influencers are adamant about the pernicious effects of PUFAs. This episode casts a large shadow of doubt on this absolutist conclusion. The average layperson trying to do the best they can for their health by eating the diet deemed most appropriate for human beings, is left with a spinning head. Dr. Scher's non-dogmatic approach is, for me, the most appealing.
It’s so nice that even the “medical professionals or research experts“ all have differing views on this. My personal feelings based on my research is that seed oils in and of themselves aren’t responsible for the dramatic changes in diabetes and heart disease and obesity/morbid obesity over the past 50 years so much as the refined and highly processed greens and sweeteners. I do believe the oils have contributed because many of the processed foods include them, because if they’re cheapness as well as they are used to fry almost every Fried good. Our body does have a preferred ratio of different fats as well as sugar levels, but it is a magnificent creation that we have overwhelmed with modern food. I am personally doing carnivore at the time with the intent to add fruits and some vegetables back in later. The way my body has responded has been incredible with regards to arthritis and aches and pains. I have not lost a significant amount of weight over the last eight weeks, but that is also because I’m consuming 2 to 4 pounds a day. I will start dropping that amount down to under 2 pounds per day beginning in April. Not every diet is correct for everyone, but there exist diets that are extremely bad for us, and sadly the pharmaceutical industry and food industry could care less about your health in general. They do not pay the cost with their health and lives.
im a postdoc in single cell epigenetics! hope i can have something to report here in the future. would be keen to do single cell epigenetic profiling of nutritional ketosis models and patients! (why single cell? so we know precisely which cell types are mechanistically responsible for the changes we see)
True, but belief doesn't reliably lead to truth. Amongst all the noise of the data, a reliable signal exists and must be determined. For that we need to apply the scientific method. Hopefully some day ambiguity will be a thing of the past.
I sometimes feel that the more UA-cam videos I watch on what is healthy to eat the more confused I get. Massive amounts of donuts probably bad. Smoking bad. Er...that's all I got from 100s of hours of opinions.
It can be confusing, but I think if you just ignore the segment that thinks everything in moderation is okay (which is just a copout), you get a clear picture that most educated people in this space agree on: eat whole, unprocessed foods, and limit added sugars.
Actually, nobody can even agree on what is processed vs highly processed! Are cooked beans highly processes or processed? How about homemade bean burgers?
Dr Weiss take on vegetables oil is a clear example why anyone with any health problem should always search the opinion of multiple doctors and also do their own research before embarking on treatment. If a doctor doesn’t show any concern for their patients diet contents, run!
Could it be helpful to have each speaker identify what success means to them? IE. age 70 with No disease or one manageable disease?? Reach age 100? What is each persons level of success?
I agree 100 percent with Dr Tro's comment. When I walk in a restaurant now vs before I changed my diet, I definitely can smell the oils they use. And if I get something fried I can taste it! I've made comments about it to my family and they think I'm crazy I can't wait to let them hear this 🤣
studying logic ,even specialists in a topic does not mean they are right.Seed oils are highly processed food ,exposed to high heat ,with many chemicals added.We are all victims of highly processed foods and seed oils sold cheap in plastic bottles are not good.Many of professionals can not speak their minds because they will be targeted and eliminated.So one has to educate himself for himself with himself .These discussions are confusing to lay people, go back to whole natural foods as our ancestors as our genes evolved.Enogh please to justify the wrong.Our ecosystem will not last and we are all connected and will all sink.Please,please be more an educator of the principles of good living and good life in epistemology and practical wisdom how to conduct our lives and take decisions. In our traditional cultures we do health, we do not talk about it.We just do it .Thank you ,very grateful..I feel really sorry for people did not live and taste the wisdom of the East.
I really liked the balance of guests and opposing views! I think I agree with your interpretation of the information available as well but I’ll have a sleep on it and see what I think in the morning :)
The most important point here is i do not like the idea of using industrial processed oils. Food made in a lab in contrast seems like a bad idea the more we know about Agra business practices and genetic modified crops. Im not fanatically about a small amount of seed oil in a salad dressing if im eating out as an example. im 55 been eating seed oils in moderation my whole life. i make my own salad dressing at home now i use olive and avocado. Cook with ghee and tallow. Sugars, starches and grain in foods should be a far bigger concern.
I say the difference. If you're cooking with seed oils, you need a paint scraper to get that junk off your stove. Lard wipes off. Seed oils turn to plastic. Why are you guys keeping away from coconut oil? Is it too saturated for you? I can't use it, I'm allergic to it but animal fats won't kill anyone. And don't fatten you either.
'Context matters':Nutritional studies do a poor job of controlling for:1)hyper/hypo caloric intake;2)hyper/hypo activity levels;3)nutrient/metabolite density. Extremely complex to control for all 3 (especially 3 - though I believe that data for all-cause-mortality curves for individual nutrients/metabolites will certainly help the clarification process). For now,I am sticking to a mildly hypocaloric diet,hyper activity regimen, and an ongoing exploration of optimal nutrient intake...and listening to Diet Doctor podcasts...
The “process” of making a Seed oil is very much unnatural and the temperature of the journey this combination of ingredients goes through really tells the story ! I’m sure the Seed industry will do what they can do to keep volume of their product up ! As a nation of sick people the cost of HEALTH is still skyrocketing , this resource could be used for so many things !
Hexane is a solvent used extensively in the food industry for the extraction of various products such as vegetable oils, fats, flavours, fragrances, colour additives or other bioactive ingredients. As it is classified as a “processing aid”, it does not have to be declared on the label under current legislation
i love this channel and i really like Ben Bikman but i wish he wouldn't feel the need to 'apologize' (for lack of a better word) when he states that finding seed oils occurring 'naturally' or as they are found in nature is a good thing! it is a good thing AND we *should* absolutely be eating as close to how foods are found in nature as we possibly can! processed food is what has gotten us into this mess of mass obesity and chronic health crises.
One thing I find really important to know about scientific studies is that the statistics used are sensitive to the size of the study. The more data points (people, measurements, etc) you have, the higher the chance of the statistical model to say "this effect is statistically significant", which for a scienzist simple means "I have publishable results". This means that with huge studies, tiny (and maybe meaningless) differences can be reported as significant. A separate problem is that a study that finds no difference is often simply not published, because "it's not interesting".
Great discussion. For the longest time I been treating seed oils as poison. I will still will really only use olive oil and avocado oil. That said I don’t use a lot of that either. I won’t be as freaked out knowing the food is cooked in a cheaper oil.
I think that what Sirtoli said about timeframe is critically important. I want to know what happens long term and in the context of what diet, not just what happens in a short study. Industrial seed oils are a processed food and I don’t trust that it’s healthy long term to consume it vs. fats as they’ve occurred naturally in nature throughout human history.
It’s such a treat to hear so many expert opinions on vegetable oil. It seems many people prefer avocado oil, however, an article “ The dark side of avocado oil” suggested that avocado oil could be carcinogenic? Any comments?
We need to make a central distinction between industrial seed oils that were recently invented (corn oil, soybean oil, etc) and non-industrial fruit oils that have been used for millennia (olive oil, avocado oil, etc). But even the fruit oils have been a small part of the typical human diet, prior to the modern era. For most of history and evolution, most humans had no choice other than to heavily rely on animal fats not only as the main source of fatty acids but also as the main source of energy.
In the late 90’s, a cold press technique for the production of food grade olive oil was developed in New Zealand. The time frame may be a bit short of a millennium.
Humans have been cold pressing olive oils since the ancient world. The label of "food grade" is an industrial term. Traditional methods of making olive oil may not be industrial "food grade". But I don't think people in the past cared about such things. There is a more important point that could be brought up, though. It's not clear that olive oil was used that much in the traditional diet. Records indicate it was more often used as lamp oil. With plentiful animal fats that were cheap, few people were likely to consume much olive oil that was needed for other purposes. Some ancient texts even advised against inclusion of olive oil in the diet, specifically warning about health issues. So, don't get me wrong. I'm not necessarily defending fruit oils. I'm simply pointing out that they are vastly different than industrial seed oils that are oxidative, inflammatory, and mutagenic (see Cate Shanahan).
I'd be interested to hear Nicola's opinion on what the causes of chronic diseases of diabetes and atherosclerosis are, and what evidence she bases that on.
I do not agree with all what mr. Weiss says. Paul Saladino crushed him in LA knowledge 6-0. But to his credit, he is like my brother. Both do clinical work with seriouly sick patients who will not match with us, the bio optimizing health-nazis (my brothers call sign for me), and both do not play with anything doing with insulins action at the mitochondrion membranes. I am an semiconductor physisist and a researcher. What Peter Dobromylsky theorises makes a lot of sense to me. Will there ever be a drug based on it? HELL NO! It would be the worst business ever and Weiss would be out of a job. Should they try to do this on their own? Maybe, but I am sure my brother and he would be silly to recommend it to any patient. Those people, as sad as it is, are gonners for sure. We should have different agendas for different people. Sick vs. those who are willing to do something about it themselves. I did. I became Un-Ill by lowering, not cholesterol but TG and avoiding LinoleicAcid to ancestral levels under 4% of daily energy intake. Fanatically.
Eric Westman talks about this. I’ll eat it occasionally in small amounts from Mayonnaise and ranch dressing. Mayo with my deviled eggs. Ranch with my chicken wings.
Canola oil is a staple in Poland. We have literally canola and sunflower as a base for everything. These two are the cheapest. If you want to splurge you buy olive oil. Even lard is more expensive than canola.
India has experienced a huge shift from saturated fat (ghee) to seed oils and it has experienced an exponential rise in diabetes and metabolic syndrome. The big change in the diet was that change of oil. And im India these people suffering from diabetes and pre-diabetes are not fat, but they have high visceral levels of visceral fats. Same with East Asians that have changed to seed oils
The language that the second female guest uses shows that she does not yet understand how the body metabolizes fats on a low carbohydrate diet. She needs to update her reading choices
Why all this talk of oils, a product we DON'T NEED! They are all processed, whether they're cold pressed or not. I just don't use any oils, and haven't for several years. When I roast my meat, I pour off the rendered fat/dripping and that's all I cook with. 100% pure and natural. Simple.
I didn't hear the first couple of presenters mention the
1) smoke point of seed oils compared with olive oil, coconut oil, or lard and beef/lamb dripping.
2) nutrient properties of animal or olive/coconut oil, and seed oils
3) propensity to become rancid at room temperature, shelf life, preservative value to food, etc.
We have generations of ancestors who used lard & dripping for its properties of stability and reliability without refrigeration.
I cook with a combination of olive oil, butter and if cooking steak, some lard/dripping.
Butter gives a delicious flavour and I find that it triggers the lovely sensation of satiety, which is a gift from God for its feeling of wellbeing. It's part of healthy self-nurture.
I'm old enough to remember that in my childhood nobody used seed oils for cooking. Absolutely nobody.
@@grandeguloFor good reason. They were designed to lubricate machinery and not mankind!
Where to start? Dr Weiss. I am sure he is smart, but he is clearly too young. I remember when canola oil hit the shelves and was touted as the healthiest thing you could do for your family. My mother who cooked everything from scratch for our health stopped buying the tins of olive oil and bought the plastic gallons of canola oil and she used it in everything. We were all normal weight with no aches and pains. Fast forward ten years, we all were struggling with our weight and had no success slimming down no matter what we did. I thought i just had no will power, but i could succeed in other areas of my life, just not my weight, Again, mom was still cooking from scratch as this was still before processed foods were common, and what also started was the arthritis. My mom had it terribly, then my dad then myself. We had no idea about seed oils possibly being unhealthy, but as I look back, I can see the impact on our all lives. I accidentally stumbled into low carb and avoiding seed oils. I had no idea the reason my legs were so painful I could barely walk was the seed oils, but when I stopped them, in just a few days I saw reduced pain. Now I am a different person, down 70 pounds with no pain whatsoever. Dr, Weiss is do what I say, not what I do. I feel sorry for his patients who will need his help with all the inflammation and suffering they shall have if they continue with seed oils.
Dr Weiss says that we don't really get that much seed oil - putting it in the pan or on your salad. All very well for the health conscious. But virtually ALL the processed foods contain seed oils and all the deep fried food uses seed oils. Most of the population actually eat a heck of a lot of seed oils.
Two thirds of SAD calories come from processed fats and sugar/processed wheat. And almost all fat comes from PUFA oil. Yet he says he doesn't know anyone who has a significant intake of PUFA oils.
It's unsettling what he said about seed oils. He downplays, even trivializes, the types of observations made by Lustig, Fung Jamnadas, et al.
Seems like he's just out of touch with what regular people end up buying at the grocery store. All below top tier salad dressings, mayonnaises, sauces, crackers, chips, fried food, desserts, breads even, the list goes on and on, have a ridiculously high amount of vegetable and seed oils
I also noticed that he didn't really seem to understand all the different "foods" that contain seed oils. Actually, he made me think that he was pretty uninformed on this subject.
🚫 Seed Oils.
Dr Bikman, The total picture, no more myopathy, no more agendas, just good stuff.
So Dr Weiss tells his patients to stay away from processed foods, sugars and refined grains. But not concerned about processed oils. These oils are in processed foods. His message is on shaky ground.
Most definitely!!!
Well, if you stay away from processed foods, you are automatically staying away from the hyper processed oils! I see no omission or contradiction here. If you avoid processed foods, then you're likely to be the kind of person who does make their own salad dressings and makes healthy choices.
Processed foods also contain water, so should I stay away from water?
@@lgolem09lKeep the water, subtract the seed oils. The former falls from the sky, and the latter is extracted in factories that resemble oil refineries.
@@lgolem09lLow IQ comment.
“I just tell my patients to pretend the conversation isn’t happening” wow, I’m glad he’s not my physician, very emotionally based arguments too.
I am with you on that one ,
And he works for Virta Health. I find him impossible to understand
That guy is a quack, pure and fucking simple.
Yeahhh I’d fire him on that
His comment that it isn’t like people are poring vegetable oil all over their salads……
Jeeeesssshhh. Yes they are - soybean oil is the first ingredient in most salad dressings and they throw fructose on the salad fire to boot.
Wow, we have an enormous food and health mess underfoot don’t we?
Dr. Weiss is wrong about seed oils and offered little in the way of evidence to show that increased consumption has not been awful for our health. His example of salad dressings not having that much seed oils is ridiculous. Look at all the commercial salad dressings and they almost always use soybean, canola, safflower oil etc. Dr. Scher should never be rude to a guest but some pushback is warranted rather than just nodding your head and smiling like this all makes perfect sense.
Dr. Weiss unlikable person and I don't trust him so his input is a waste of my time
Weiss said he uses avocado oil. He said he was talking out of both sides of his mouth. 🤷🏽♀️🙄
Weiss contributed almost zero to advance our understanding. Nothing burger.
Indeed, people need to wake up and realize that the best study has already happened, lol. We actually already performed the experiment, it just happened to be one that NOONE gave their conscious consent. Scarily, the experiment remains ongoing...
I respectfully disagree with doctor Weiss. Vegetable oils are everywhere. Especially if you stick with standard diet.
Potato/corn chips baked goods, canned seafood (in many cases), salad dressings etc. all contain vegetable oils.
So even if you cook at home with "healthy" saturated and mono-unsaturated if you consume processed foods you will consume a lot of vegetable oils.
Then eliminate process foods...
@@MarkVA71 Did it three years ago.
So what's your point?
I agree, irrespective of whether it's healthy or unhealthy it is absolutely everywhere, especially in processed foods. If it used to contain butter it now contains vegetable fats ( biscuits, cookies, baked goods etc.), if it used to contain olive oil, it now mostly contains cheaper vegetable oils (pesto, vegetables or fish preserved in oil). Of course processed foods are generally a bad choice, but where it annoys me most is when i want to buy things like canned fish, olives, pesto, sundried tomatoes etc. They mostly contain sunflower oil, rapeseed oil or unspecified vegetable oil. And secondly it bothers me that restaurants nearly always use the cheapest vegetable oils available for all their cooking. I live in Ireland and maybe it is worse here than in other places.
Here's the problem: invited to my Parisian gourmet chef friend's house or her professional chef brother's house for dinner. E.V.E.R.Y.T.H.I.N.G will be fresh and homemade BUT they will use vegetable oil to cook meat dishes with. Unless you cut off contact with people, you are going to be exposed to seed oils. Even the top chefs and restaurants that source everything within 15 minutes walking distance and know the name of every chicken they serve are still using seed oils.
@@sarahrosen4985 yep. I see UA-cam cooks preparing high-grade Wagyu beef - with canola oil. They’ve been overwhelmed with VEGETABLE OIL IS GOOD FOR YOU propaganda. It’s as if they can’t help it.
Dr. Weiss says not to eat processed food, then says it's just fine to eat seed oils which are heavily processed. The olive and avocado oil he uses is processed minimally. I think he subconsciously doesn't like seed oils.
Guest 1: Admits he doesn't know what the hell he's talking about.
Guest 2: Talking out of her ass completely discounting how "vegetable" oils are processed and throw off your Omega 6:3 ratio. Would love to know where her income comes from.
You must really hate everyone on Diet Doctor, based on what they say and where their income comes from. Right?
Guest 2 can be debunked, if necessary, by what she says and how she substantiates her positions. Not by who she works for or by disparaging her motivations, even if her biases do happen to work against her own interests or the public. FWIW, the same applies to the Diet Doctors....
The comment about Guest 1 was pretty funny, though.
This dietican lady really lives in a fantasy land. She is really in the pocket of the oil industry. As a person with migraines and Fibromyalgia, getting seed oils and most nuts out of my diet has been a health game changer.
She seems to be kinda like the usual "dietician" explanations.
As a chronic migraineur, I've found that nuts, legumes, and bananas trigger attacks. Seeds and seed oils (minimal intake) don't. Both of my sisters, also chronic migraineurs, can eat any amount of nuts, legumes, and bananas. My sister-in-law gets migraines from red meat.
It's always a mistake to extrapolate one's personal experience to the world population.
@@SuzanneU I dont think its red meat at all. See what other confounding factors could play a role and see if shes eating any type of processing or super market meat. Grass fed and finished probably wont give her any bad reactions.
Yeah I could tell. She probably secretly represents industries heavily invested in seed oils. It's evident that long term, high consumption of these seeds tends to always lead to negative health outcomes in humans. Seed oils build up in your fat cells and take years of accumulation to really see a bad effect, that said, seed oils (Oxidized omega 6 linoleic acid) has a half life of about 680 days. You're looking at years of turn over rate of seed oils in your fatty tissues. The thing is when you lose weight, those seed oils are actually re-released in your body and causes temporary inflammation. So best bet is to eliminate ALL Seed oils, lose weight and in years time you will slowly start to feel better with your omega 6 to omega 3 ratio's once again in a humanely acceptable range of about 1 to 2 percent
@@RandomHuTaoSimpThis is the best comment I've read regarding seed oils in some time. Yes, spot on man! I boycotted seed oils and reversed a rare disease called eosinophilic esophagitis which has no medically recognized cure, lol. Subtract the seed oils before they subtract you friends, they were made to lubricate machinery and not mankind. Doctors used to also promote cigarette smoking. Wake up guys, WAKE UP.
Dr. Weiss is a non-issue. I could barely stomach him.
Agreed I'd rather have
a spoon of vegetable oil.
Agree, he sounds uninformed and isolated.
I think people interview him only because he works fo out Virta Health and he's a cardiologist. Every interview with him is annoying. He ducks and weaves around questions.
Did not add value, in fact I was surprised he was included.
My GoTo
1. Lard
2. Butter
3. Olive Oil
4. Ghee
5. Coconut/MCT Oil
Bloody good stuff. Eat well.
I perceive the key driver for consuming vegetable oils to be commercial interests. However, the oils are promoted as “healthy” as that is the message the public will currently buy into. Trials and research funded by commercial interests will clearly seek to promote them in that way. That they are a money-saving option for people seals the deal. Persuasive messaging is the lifeblood of commercial interests.
I have great respect for Ben Bikman and the work he does.
Ben Bikman was the most accurate among your guests. Maybe you can do part 2 of this podcast with Cris Knobbe and Robert Lustig.
No mention of the high temperatures of using seed oils in frying foods and continuous reuse of seed oils in fast food restaurants.
Not only in fast-food restaurants, but most "regular" restaurants also reuse their oils. Some might go to the trouble of filtering out the burned bits, but the "cleaned" oil is reused.
Yeah! Chris Knobbe seemed emphatic in his belief that vegetable seed oils are the death of us all.
@@KenJackson_US Knobbe's talks are what pointed out the "it's excess carbs" paradox, which lead me to investigate Linoleic Acid.
After lowering it for 1-3 years, I continued to see new benefits to health, and over time gaining flexibility in my carb intake.
I've also eliminated vegetable seed oils from my diet, @@Unsensitive. Though I'm still a little confused as to why they're considered to be so bad.
@@KenJackson_US
There are multiple factors...
A bit to much put into a comment, but here's the Short answer.
1. Mitochondrial dysfunction
2. Inflammation from oxidation and oxidative products.
3. Primary cause of atherosclerosis.
4. Primary cause of cardiovascular disease.
5. Primary cause of diabetes due to effects on mitochondria and insulin resistance.
6. Primary cause of fatty liver.
Most of these are linked with Linoleic acid. Others may also play a role, but there's less data to support this.
These are signalling molecules. In small amounts we were exposed evolutionarily they're fine, and we can handle the harmful effects, but larger amounts, we can't compensate.
I have a playlist full of talks and lectures on Linoleic Acid you might be interested in.
I'd also recommend looking at Tucker Goodrich's blog "yelling-stop".
He has some great articles. And dogs into research, linking studies to support his stance.
What are the first and second interviewees being paid to defend the seed oil industries?
Another thing is that when people consume these seed oils they are usually heated, often to very high temperatures (for frying and deep frying food). Was that taken into account in those studies?
They are heated when they are made
@@TheWoWBane Some of them, but there are cold pressed versions as well wich aren't heated and well they're at least better than the conventional seed oils wich are heavily procceced and heated to insane temperatures.
I only use seed oil for frying, mainly canola oil. I ALWAYS use it for frying. It raises my cholesterol and when I drink too many margaritas and eat too much homemade popcorn made with canola oil, I'm really in trouble.
At an airport restaurant, I wanted eggs and bacon and ended up ordering poached eggs instead of other methods since the waiter told me that they don’t have butter or olive oil.
Then you'd have to ask them if the chef uses vinegar to poach the eggs. If so, if he's using regular white vinegar, it is made from GMO corn. 😐
Good thinking. One would think at an airport things might be more select.
Thank God for scientists like professor Bickman!
yes at least he tells the truth
I had a McD hash brown for the first time in months and retched on it. It was like a canola/soybean oil sponge. I used to eat these things almost every day. I can't imagine ever trying to eat one of them again. I'm not scared of seed/vegetable oils (and will eat the occasional nuts) but I'll definitely be avoiding them whenever possible.
Dr Weiss, yes is talking out of both sides of his mouth. If he doesn't think it's an important topic perhaps he should not be considered as a reference. If he thinks it only matters if you drink gallons of it he should not be considered for anything.
Yeah, I think it's concerning that he seems to think that only chugging it or cooking with it matter. I'd venture a guess that most people's PUFAs don't come from their intentional additions, but rather come in processed foods. It's the same situation as sugar-- you're probably not adding too much sugar to your tea and coffee, you're probably getting it mostly in processed junk like soda.
Furthermore, you don't need to chug gallons to make a difference. Some 20% or more by calorie of the modern die comes from these omega 6 PUFAs when formerly we'd have low single digit consumption of all PUFA. Just throwing off the omega 3: omega 6 ratio could be significant. I can understand him being unconvinced by the current data and wanting to focus on other things, but it almost feels like he's ignoring the subject.
Apparently Dr. Weiss and Dr. Guess are completely ignorant of the fact that vegetable seed oils are a highly processed industrial product. Maybe someone should educate them on how these oils are created in factories and the extensive, multi-step process required to make at least a somewhat-appealing oil product.
Dr Weiss says it's a non issue, because why? Vegetable oil occurs in like 90 percent of processed food and he says nobody is "chugging it".... I'm vexed
Where is Tucker Goodrich?
it looks like they didn't want to invite him, very sad.
i never eat out, and cook at home everyday 😘😘
Comment on first speaker: oils used for consumption are an issue when combined with other processed foods in our daily intake of food. Breakfast? Fry an egg in canola oil? Mid-Morning snack? White bread(has hydrogenated oil in most brands) with Jiff PB (has hydrogenated oil in it) ….I can on . It adds up ….the ingredients in the food we eat. We all have to do our own research. I believe this video was important to share . As far as the first speaker, he made good points. However, we can’t just assume people will make the right decisions. As a healthcare provider it’s a duty to educate patients on overall health. Idk what point I’m trying to make , I’m just in awe of the shrug of shoulders over oil ….”it’s not a big deal” but when you Sum it All up( our intake of foods)….yes oils do make a difference!
I disagree with Dr Weis and his approach. He's awkwardly ignoring the subject and subconsciously knows the seed oils are a problem. The fact he uses olive and avocado oil in his life and can't answer why he doesn't use other oils says it all.
Thanks for posting this! Did not hear ANYTHING that refutes Knobbe or Goodrich or Lustig or even Berg. These oils are marketed to us as the heart healthy choice but no one mentioned the Cholesterol Hypothesis that they are predicated upon. Noakes did an extensive video critiquing this. I respect the panelists but they are not giving definitive answers, sound more like politicians. "Let me be clear...I have always supported better cleaner eating...Cleaner eating is what we should all be seeking in our lives..." At least Bikman's equivocating was understandable because science.
As for me, vegetable oils = SATAN. Just like we don't need 200lbs of sugar a year in our diet neither do we need 30%+ of our calories coming from omega 6, linoleic acid polyunsaturated fatty acids. Thanks you, your mileage may vary
Well said. Subtract the seed oils before they subtract you friends, they were designed to lubricate machinery and not mankind!
Bikman is king!
Try and find a food at the grocery store that doesn't have industrial oil in it.
I can't even believe that his first guest said that he doesn't see people chugging omega six oils! So he doesn't think that they are a problem! OMG
It has been said from a long time ago that 90% of the "food" products sold in grocery stores are not fit for human consumption.
1. Is it a natural whole food that is evolutionarily appropriate?
2. Did this "food" coming to existence primarily as a need to deal with an industrial biproduct?
3. Did the Minnesota and Sydney heart studies demonstrate conclusively that people that replaced saturated fat with seed oils die much earlier?
This discussion was interesting but honestly this is kind of a no brainer that we don't need to take the risk of having this as a major source of energy. The burden of proof is showing that it is safe.
_"Evolutionarily"?_ Sorry to drift off topic, but how can anyone _possibly_ still believe all of today's life evolved from a common ancestor in light of the revelations of molecular biology?! Doesn't detailed knowledge of proteins and mitochondria put the lie to that?
It is interesting that even the doctors that say there's nothing wrong with seed oils still choose not to eat them themselves. And whether anyone says they're good or bad, when you look at the chemicals needed to extract and process these oils, do we really want those in our body. I saw a couple suggestions for a part 2. Include Kate Shanahan? Great content! Thanks and blessings!
Yes, 100%, Cate coined the phrase "the hateful eight" and is a gift to humanity, truly. These oils are toxic, never outsource your own intuition guys!
I eat higher fat on a low carb diet, so the quality of fat matters. When my diet had seed oils in majority, I sunburned easily. Now that they have been removed, I don’t. Strange, but true. This was observed in an interview between Ivor Cummins and Tucker Goodrich.
I also noted the lack of sunburn. Recently spent about 4-5 hours outside, with little pre-exposure. Got a little pink, but nothing uncomfortable. This cleared up the next day.
I've also seen benefits to allergies and sinus inflammation.
The lowered inflammation and clear sinuses fixed my sleep apnea as well, since I can nose breath when I obstruct.
I still have allergies in my eyes though, so use antihistamine eye drops during peak season.
Chronic pain and arthritis are also gone.
After 3 years of lower Linoleic acid, my asthma is nearly gone.
@@UnsensitiveYou are the man! This needs to be shouted from every mountain and rooftop. A nutritional savant whispered "linoleic acid" into my ear back in 2015. The crazy thing is, I was burdened by allergies, asthma, and a rare disease called eosinophilic esophagitis that nobody, not even the allergist who specializes in it, had answers. My allergist never mentioned these inflammatory oils. Long story short, I now have zero signs or symptoms of these conditions. My esophagus used to be so inflamed that I was left unable to speak and barely able to breathe hundreds of times throughout my late teens and early 20s when food would get lodged inside it. Unreal.
Cutting seed oils has ELIMINATED my migraines AND minor headaches. I don't believe for a second that they're good to eat. Tucker Goodrich talks about going through all the possible factors for the increase in disease across populations around the world in the 20th century and it sounds like a couple of these experts haven't been as thorough somehow.
First guy seems like a fool. I know everything and have no interest in anything new
I only watched the last half hour so far but that sounds crazy if he was like that. There is no person on Earth, never has been or will be, that has learned all they can about everything. Hell, there are always new things to find out even about subjects you know the most about!
Great to get a full range of doctors and researchers on this tooic. I give a lot more credence to those who actually cite serious studies-as Ben Bikman did. Could also include Dr Cate Shanahan in this one-her two books cover this well: Deep Nutrition & The Fatburn Fix.
Cate is amazing! She coined the phrase "the hateful eight" and her work is legendary!
Tucker Goodrich is far more knowledgeable on this subject than any of your guests. Very disingenuous not to have him present on the matter.
I noticed there was no mention of taking these seed oils and hydrogenating them. I think it was pretty strongly concluded that hydrogenated oils are bad for all of us.
24:18 “replacing butter with linoleic (oils) is beneficial “….nope, sticking with butter
Virtually every bottled salad dressing is made with vegetable oil
Gotta look for brands like Primal Kitchen.
And for some reason people tend to buy dressings instead of making it. It’s so simple to make and much less waste. In the past anytime I bought any they almost alway ended up in the garbage.
Dr. Weiss:
He’s got a point about the seed oil conversation being far down the list for most people (especially if they’re starting out on a new eating plan). However, he would be amazed at how much soybean oil finds its way into common foods (including salad dressings). The definition of a junk might as well be Flour + Sugar + Soybean Oil.
Would have been nice to ask each contributor if they include seed oils in their diets regularly.
10:13 . so like yeah there is one lol
35:04
he did. None of them consume seed oils. wonder why???
It always amazes me that when u ask a doctor what she or he does personally, how the advice changes. All these docs agree: no seed oil
Why consume anything that got into the food supply so relatively recently and quite frankly, out of ignorance? Things like these oils and sugar. Now we know better.
I only eat avocado oil. Once in a great while I might eat olive oil. The only thing cooked I eat are poached eggs. I don't use cooking utensils any longer. Low carb tortilla with tuna for dinner, protein shake with coconut milk for lunch and sometimes a salad and half a grapefruit with stevia is my complete diet. I'm a type 1 diabetic which was onset at age 55 and put me in the hospital in a coma from eating the American diet! The American diet nearly killed me thanks to the FDA! Over 100 million people in the United States are diabetics right now with three times that many undiagnosed. Wake up or you will be awakened the hard way like I was.
I never eat out. I cook all my food from scratch.
Same here, perhaps the only thing good in my life to come out of COVID19.
Me too, and I use animal fats. It's the only thing to use.
Do you have friends? I feel like it's tough not to. Eating is such a social thing in this society
At 28:20moment I'm patiently waitin' for my counter advocates.
Since I removed vegetable oils 15 years ago (Extra Virgin Olive Oil is an exception in the Mediterranean) my life changed 360, for the better.
Btw. Where is Dr. Cate Shanahan, Tucker Goodrich, anyone?
Like Dr. Kalayjian, I get nauseous from seed oils now, too! When I was at a theme park recently the smells from fryers made me really feel ill. Smelled like burning plastic to me.
Me too. Everytime I walk past a McDonalds or other fast food outlet I gag.
Wow... Your first two experts represent the problem of Eminence Based Science Expertise. They identify as not knowing and never having thought about it and claim to have devine authority knowledge about it. The audience gets the message that they are not Evidence Based on their expertise but clerics of a Dogma.
I would still rather read their papers and do a judgement by myself... What a pity, dr. Sher didn't link to those studies...
I simply know my own personal 50+ year data: when I consume seed oils, my IBS-D is on 🔥 I can’t have a life if I eat them, so I don’t. Do other people do just fine, sure. I also don’t eat most vegetables for the same reason. I can’t do it and be a functional human.
Ditto. Most plant foods with their fiber, fodmap content, and resistant starches, wreak havoc on my digestive system. What an immense relief eating animal-based has given me.
Me too. After years and years of gut problems I’ve gradually refined my diet based on how the food makes me feel. I eat at home, avoid almost all processed foods and eat animal based. My mouth likes vegetables and fruits but my guts get really upset by them.
Dr Tro, sits on the fence, but knows the logic and chooses not to ignor it for himself.
"there's not problem with seed oils"
"I don't eat seeds oils"
If you truly believe that seed oils are not a problem, you should save yourself A LOT of money and stop buying avocado oil or olive oil.
Furthermore, the vast majority of people eating salads are using canola oil as a dressing.
Canola oil has a reasonable ratio of omega3:6. Avocado and olive oils come primarily from the flesh of the fruit, not the seeds. Olive seed oil is regarded as inferior.
How are the oils extracted from the seeds? any chemicals involved? what is the process to remove the rancid smell? How are these additives received by the body!
I like Dr. Weiss, and can sort of see his point about the dose being the poison. I too have been skeptical of those who seem to think seed oils are the ONLY cause of illness (the truth is always somewhere between the extremes) -- but his statements that confounded me are that he mentioned avoiding processed food and refined carbohydrates. Does he not realize "vegetable" oils are are inherently unnatural and highly processed? Sure he does. I guess his point is purely based on quantity consumed, but those oils appear in nearly everything on grocery store shelves are used routinely in restaurants to cook what would be considered "real" foods. His comment that people don't pour canola oil on their salads is flat wrong if those people use commercial dressings, which almost always are canola- or soybean oil-based. Cook your own real food, and you'll be better off.
Yeah, maybe what he means is people following his advice to eat whole foods are not consuming seed oils in large amounts. But if that's what he meant, it really should have been made more clear.
I would love to listen to a direct discussion between Ben Bikman and Nicola Guess.
Another excellent presentation, and I like your summary. You, pointed out that with important caveats, that modest doses of LA is probably of low risk. The most important caveat is wether or not the LA intake is in the presence of obesity and a hyper calorie diet. Bearing in mind the oxidative priority of energy sources: alcohol burned before AA's and sugar which are burned before fats. If all your energy needs are met by the former, then all fat in the diet will be stored irrespective of its type. Then, as well explained by Dr Ted Naiman, over filled fats cells are very inflammed and they spread inflammation to the rest of the body and drive insulin resistance. Then one is entitled to speculate about the potential biochemical toxicity of LA but also all excess of any polyunsaturated fats. When one is in calorie balance, then LA can be burned as fuel. Dr Weiss, like your good self, is looking after real patients with metabolic, obesity and heart problems, and the importance of selective messaging where one does not overload, and one gets the emphasis right ... the 80/20 rule ... the top 2 on a list of factors gives 80% of the results. Lifestyle changes are difficult, especially in a world obsessed with food and alcohol, combined with a thousand voices of arm chair experts with Google degrees. By all means think for yourself, but trust real world practitioners over anecdotalists.
Dr Jason Fung is another who comes to mind - treated thousands of real patients, and knows the science what works in practice.
In the 1st minute of Dr. Weiss' talking (7:10 - 8:21), he basically said nothing, by 9:31 we're promised "I'm going to say it directly" ... at 10:45 we get from him "I'm sorta talking out of both sides of my mouth" ... So I recommend you just skip the first 15 minutes
He was terrible. I nearly quit the video after the first two guests.
UNimpressive.
"I don't care about this [seed oil] conversation." 1 nanosecond later: "I only use 2 oils; Olive and Avocado..."
At least he had a moment of self-awareness when he acknowledged talking out of both sides of his mouth.
Prior to this, I had only heard a united front among the keto crowd against *"industrial vegetable seed oils."* I'm surprised but pleased to hear a little _equivocation._ Salad dressings were my last source of them until I switched to expensive avocado based salad dressings about a month ago. Now I can enjoy some inexpensive soybean oil dressings again.
Chinese food originally uses both seed oil and animal fat, but the seed oil transitionally is all cold processed which keeps the original taste and smells of the seeds, this is extremely different from current vegetable oil in the market. However, nowadays the big food companies have already changed this tradition, and in China now, only passents in small villages who make cold processed seed oil on their own still use such traditional seed oil.
100 percent correct. And that on top of American food exports to China is why obesity rates are rising so rapidly there. They are going through same exact thing that happened in USA, just about 40 years behind.
I'm not sure how there's any legitimate debate over the harm caused by lifetime ingestion of added linoleic acid at this point. The mechanism studies and randomized controlled trials should have put this to bed years ago.
The "blunt" doctor who said the vegetable oil debate doesn't matter cooks with olive and avocado oil and not vegetable oil. He even said he's talking out both sides of his mouth, so he's lying to himself and he knows it. The British doc claiming linoleic acid is tied to better health relied on epidemiological studies, which are garbage for finding causal relationships.
I'm not sure why Bret and company pulled their punches on this topic, when the answer is obvious. Maybe they have friends or donors who are pro vegetable oil?
I was confused by his choice of line up, and his own responses to a number of them, as well.
Great format…. One topic, discussed by all these different doctors/researchers. Thank you, very much!
What a compendium! Well done, Dr. Scher. It's maddening that it's apparently impossible at this point in time to gain a full evidence-based understanding of the issue because experts differ so dramatically. Generally, in the carnivore/animal-based/low-carb world, it is taken as given that seed oils are not optimal for health. Many elevate their status to the number one detrimental factor affecting overall health, inflammatory and metabolic conditions, including pre-diabetes and diabetes. Major influencers are adamant about the pernicious effects of PUFAs. This episode casts a large shadow of doubt on this absolutist conclusion. The average layperson trying to do the best they can for their health by eating the diet deemed most appropriate for human beings, is left with a spinning head. Dr. Scher's non-dogmatic approach is, for me, the most appealing.
Should we avoid walnuts, pistachios, and almonds because they contain mostly linoleic acid?
It’s so nice that even the “medical professionals or research experts“ all have differing views on this.
My personal feelings based on my research is that seed oils in and of themselves aren’t responsible for the dramatic changes in diabetes and heart disease and obesity/morbid obesity over the past 50 years so much as the refined and highly processed greens and sweeteners. I do believe the oils have contributed because many of the processed foods include them, because if they’re cheapness as well as they are used to fry almost every Fried good.
Our body does have a preferred ratio of different fats as well as sugar levels, but it is a magnificent creation that we have overwhelmed with modern food.
I am personally doing carnivore at the time with the intent to add fruits and some vegetables back in later. The way my body has responded has been incredible with regards to arthritis and aches and pains. I have not lost a significant amount of weight over the last eight weeks, but that is also because I’m consuming 2 to 4 pounds a day. I will start dropping that amount down to under 2 pounds per day beginning in April.
Not every diet is correct for everyone, but there exist diets that are extremely bad for us, and sadly the pharmaceutical industry and food industry could care less about your health in general. They do not pay the cost with their health and lives.
im a postdoc in single cell epigenetics! hope i can have something to report here in the future. would be keen to do single cell epigenetic profiling of nutritional ketosis models and patients! (why single cell? so we know precisely which cell types are mechanistically responsible for the changes we see)
at the end of the day, it is an individual decision to choose what we believe because there is data that supports opposites.
Some data is of poor quality. Some data is produced by people with conflicts of interest. Some data is funded by entities that will gain monetarily.
@@onionjello yes absolutely!
True, but belief doesn't reliably lead to truth. Amongst all the noise of the data, a reliable signal exists and must be determined. For that we need to apply the scientific method. Hopefully some day ambiguity will be a thing of the past.
@@torstrasburg8289 oh definitely
@@onionjello should always look at study funders (and sometimes need to dig into the funders of funder)
Outstanding compilation, thank you so much!
Funny story: Amber Ohearn saw me eat a peice of cornbread with my fatty brisket breaking a 3 day fast at Low Carb Houston. Boy was I in trouble!
I sometimes feel that the more UA-cam videos I watch on what is healthy to eat the more confused I get. Massive amounts of donuts probably bad. Smoking bad. Er...that's all I got from 100s of hours of opinions.
It can be confusing, but I think if you just ignore the segment that thinks everything in moderation is okay (which is just a copout), you get a clear picture that most educated people in this space agree on: eat whole, unprocessed foods, and limit added sugars.
Actually, nobody can even agree on what is processed vs highly processed! Are cooked beans highly processes or processed? How about homemade bean burgers?
Dr Weiss take on vegetables oil is a clear example why anyone with any health problem should always search the opinion of multiple doctors and also do their own research before embarking on treatment.
If a doctor doesn’t show any concern for their patients diet contents, run!
Could it be helpful to have each speaker identify what success means to them?
IE. age 70 with No disease or one manageable disease?? Reach age 100? What is each persons level of success?
Great to see a doctor who couldn't care less about his patients.
I agree 100 percent with Dr Tro's comment. When I walk in a restaurant now vs before I changed my diet, I definitely can smell the oils they use. And if I get something fried I can taste it! I've made comments about it to my family and they think I'm crazy I can't wait to let them hear this 🤣
I notice it, too! Fried food at restaurants tastes terrible to me now, and the smell is also unappetising. Fried animal fat smells and tastes amazing!
studying logic ,even specialists in a topic does not mean they are right.Seed oils are highly processed food ,exposed to high heat ,with many chemicals added.We are all victims of highly processed foods and seed oils sold cheap in plastic bottles are not good.Many of professionals can not speak their minds because they will be targeted and eliminated.So one has to educate himself for himself with himself .These discussions are confusing to lay people, go back to whole natural foods as our ancestors as our genes evolved.Enogh please to justify the wrong.Our ecosystem will not last and we are all connected and will all sink.Please,please be more an educator of the principles of good living and good life in epistemology and practical wisdom how to conduct our lives and take decisions. In our traditional cultures we do health, we do not talk about it.We just do it .Thank you ,very grateful..I feel really sorry for people did not live and taste the wisdom of the East.
Argumentum ad Eastum.
I really liked the balance of guests and opposing views! I think I agree with your interpretation of the information available as well but I’ll have a sleep on it and see what I think in the morning :)
The most important point here is i do not like the idea of using industrial processed oils. Food made in a lab in contrast seems like a bad idea the more we know about Agra business practices and genetic modified crops. Im not fanatically about a small amount of seed oil in a salad dressing if im eating out as an example. im 55 been eating seed oils in moderation my whole life. i make my own salad dressing at home now i use olive and avocado. Cook with ghee and tallow. Sugars, starches and grain in foods should be a far bigger concern.
I do NOT have seed oils in the house!
I say the difference. If you're cooking with seed oils, you need a paint scraper to get that junk off your stove. Lard wipes off. Seed oils turn to plastic. Why are you guys keeping away from coconut oil? Is it too saturated for you? I can't use it, I'm allergic to it but animal fats won't kill anyone. And don't fatten you either.
'Context matters':Nutritional studies do a poor job of controlling for:1)hyper/hypo caloric intake;2)hyper/hypo activity levels;3)nutrient/metabolite density.
Extremely complex to control for all 3
(especially 3 - though I believe that data for all-cause-mortality curves for individual nutrients/metabolites will certainly help the clarification process).
For now,I am sticking to a mildly hypocaloric diet,hyper activity regimen, and an ongoing exploration of optimal nutrient intake...and listening to Diet Doctor podcasts...
The “process” of making a Seed oil is very much unnatural and the temperature of the journey this combination of ingredients goes through really tells the story !
I’m sure the Seed industry will do what they can do to keep volume of their product up !
As a nation of sick people the cost of HEALTH is still skyrocketing , this resource could be used for so many things !
Hexane is a solvent used extensively in the food industry for the extraction of various products such as vegetable oils, fats, flavours, fragrances, colour additives or other bioactive ingredients. As it is classified as a “processing aid”, it does not have to be declared on the label under current legislation
About three fifths through the video and I detect a gradual progression towards competency.
i love this channel and i really like Ben Bikman but i wish he wouldn't feel the need to 'apologize' (for lack of a better word) when he states that finding seed oils occurring 'naturally' or as they are found in nature is a good thing! it is a good thing AND we *should* absolutely be eating as close to how foods are found in nature as we possibly can! processed food is what has gotten us into this mess of mass obesity and chronic health crises.
and it doesn't make one a 'hippie' to appreciate and recognize that whole natural foods are optimal.
One thing I find really important to know about scientific studies is that the statistics used are sensitive to the size of the study. The more data points (people, measurements, etc) you have, the higher the chance of the statistical model to say "this effect is statistically significant", which for a scienzist simple means "I have publishable results". This means that with huge studies, tiny (and maybe meaningless) differences can be reported as significant. A separate problem is that a study that finds no difference is often simply not published, because "it's not interesting".
I'm only part way I hope the views get a bit more balanced by the end.
I’d recommend listening to Tucker Goodrich!
If you buy the fattier cut of meat (usually more affordable than lean) you can skip the oil.
Great discussion. For the longest time I been treating seed oils as poison. I will still will really only use olive oil and avocado oil. That said I don’t use a lot of that either. I won’t be as freaked out knowing the food is cooked in a cheaper oil.
I think that what Sirtoli said about timeframe is critically important. I want to know what happens long term and in the context of what diet, not just what happens in a short study. Industrial seed oils are a processed food and I don’t trust that it’s healthy long term to consume it vs. fats as they’ve occurred naturally in nature throughout human history.
Exactly right. These oils will slowly oxidize your body and cause chronic disease.
It’s such a treat to hear so many expert opinions on vegetable oil. It seems many people prefer avocado oil, however, an article “ The dark side of avocado oil” suggested that avocado oil could be carcinogenic? Any comments?
We need to make a central distinction between industrial seed oils that were recently invented (corn oil, soybean oil, etc) and non-industrial fruit oils that have been used for millennia (olive oil, avocado oil, etc). But even the fruit oils have been a small part of the typical human diet, prior to the modern era. For most of history and evolution, most humans had no choice other than to heavily rely on animal fats not only as the main source of fatty acids but also as the main source of energy.
In the late 90’s, a cold press technique for the production of food grade olive oil was developed in New Zealand. The time frame may be a bit short of a millennium.
Humans have been cold pressing olive oils since the ancient world. The label of "food grade" is an industrial term. Traditional methods of making olive oil may not be industrial "food grade". But I don't think people in the past cared about such things.
There is a more important point that could be brought up, though. It's not clear that olive oil was used that much in the traditional diet. Records indicate it was more often used as lamp oil.
With plentiful animal fats that were cheap, few people were likely to consume much olive oil that was needed for other purposes. Some ancient texts even advised against inclusion of olive oil in the diet, specifically warning about health issues.
So, don't get me wrong. I'm not necessarily defending fruit oils. I'm simply pointing out that they are vastly different than industrial seed oils that are oxidative, inflammatory, and mutagenic (see Cate Shanahan).
I'd be interested to hear Nicola's opinion on what the causes of chronic diseases of diabetes and atherosclerosis are, and what evidence she bases that on.
I do not agree with all what mr. Weiss says. Paul Saladino crushed him in LA knowledge 6-0.
But to his credit, he is like my brother. Both do clinical work with seriouly sick patients who will not match with us, the bio optimizing health-nazis (my brothers call sign for me), and both do not play with anything doing with insulins action at the mitochondrion membranes.
I am an semiconductor physisist and a researcher. What Peter Dobromylsky theorises makes a lot of sense to me. Will there ever be a drug based on it? HELL NO! It would be the worst business ever and Weiss would be out of a job. Should they try to do this on their own? Maybe, but I am sure my brother and he would be silly to recommend it to any patient. Those people, as sad as it is, are gonners for sure. We should have different agendas for different people. Sick vs. those who are willing to do something about it themselves. I did. I became Un-Ill by lowering, not cholesterol but TG and avoiding LinoleicAcid to ancestral levels under 4% of daily energy intake. Fanatically.
Eric Westman talks about this. I’ll eat it occasionally in small amounts from Mayonnaise and ranch dressing. Mayo with my deviled eggs. Ranch with my chicken wings.
Canola oil is a staple in Poland. We have literally canola and sunflower as a base for everything. These two are the cheapest. If you want to splurge you buy olive oil. Even lard is more expensive than canola.
India has experienced a huge shift from saturated fat (ghee) to seed oils and it has experienced an exponential rise in diabetes and metabolic syndrome. The big change in the diet was that change of oil. And im India these people suffering from diabetes and pre-diabetes are not fat, but they have high visceral levels of visceral fats. Same with East Asians that have changed to seed oils
Another food divergence that has been around about the same time as the introduction of seed oils into our diet is pasteurized milk.
The language that the second female guest uses shows that she does not yet understand how the body metabolizes fats on a low carbohydrate diet.
She needs to update her reading choices
Why all this talk of oils, a product we DON'T NEED! They are all processed, whether they're cold pressed or not. I just don't use any oils, and haven't for several years. When I roast my meat, I pour off the rendered fat/dripping and that's all I cook with. 100% pure and natural. Simple.
wow this is amazing! thank you diet doctor! such an impressive podcast, well curated!!
where is dr Chris A kanobbe who is an expert in this